sure colorado and western colorado would be treated fairly in any divisions of water. his first major success was the passage of the colorado river storage project in 1956. see all of our programs from grand junction on c-span cities tour. deborah brody talks about her book, the trouble with lawyers, that takes a look at the legal profession, the high cost of law school, and lack of diversity in the profession. need a model of education that includes programs for people doing routine work. an optionograms are for people who want to do something specialized in the third year. people whors for want the full general practice

legal education we now have. it is crazy to train in the same way somebody who is doing routine divorces in a small town in the midwest and somebody who is doing mergers and acquisitions on wall street. we have this one-size-fits-all of legal education that is streaming expensive. the average debt level for a law student is $100,000. assuming you can train everybody to do everything in the same way , and that's just a practice in a few states and i would not trust myself to do that. >> sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern and pacific on c-span's q&a. said it ispresident conceivable his organization could give an endorsement for president by the democratic primaries. he made the comment was speaking

to reporters about the presidential race, the labor movement, immigration and race relations. posted by the christian science monitor, this is one hour. >> ok, here we go. thank you for coming, everyone. wow. we will have some people join us in progress, as they say in tv land. i am dave cook. our guest today is richard trumka, president of the afl-cio. we thank him for coming back. he grew up in the pennsylvania area and followed his father and

grandfather into the mines. he worked his way through penn state university and earned a law degree in 1974. at age 33 he was elected president of the united mine workers of america, the end this person in history to hold the position. he served three terms as president and brought the mine workers into the afl-cio. he ran to be secretary-treasurer of the afl-cio and became the young this person to hold that position when he served for 15 years. he was elected as president of the afl-cio in september 2009 and reelected in 2013. that ends the biographical portion. now want to breakfast mechanics. let me begin by noting that many of you work with gerry gilmore, who recently accepted a job on capitol hill. his successor is christina,

standing back there by the door. she has two masters degrees, speaks for linkages, and organizes events for the london school of economics. it is great to have her here. please, no live blogging or tweeting. that'll give us time to actually listen to what the guest are saying. please resist the selfie urge. as regular attendees know, if you would like to ask a question, do the traditional thing and send me a signal and i will happily call on one and all. ..

every labor day there is a assertion that organized labor is in decline. it's time to retire that old chestnut, because it is not true. had 2015, there's an untold story about the rising tide of people finding new and innovative ways to create a better life. this in face of the corporate opposition, archaic labor laws and gridlock in washington. it's a story that's taken place

and towns around the factories offices and and among ordinary people who decided they could stand together to make a difference. quite frankly, the momentum hasn't gone unnoticed completely. a recent poll shows support for highest, sinces 2008, with 58% of people expressions approval, 63% of women and the really good news to 34 is workers from 18 support unions by 66%. we have the obama administration that's preparing to host a white voicesummit on workers' in the fall so from main street to the white house, our country taking notice of the different ways working people are on the rise. and so with that, having said

aat, i want to wish everybody happy labor day but more working lifea safe year.st of the >> let me be knee-jerk, as you say. talk about what you're path of change the laborship, the latest department report showed that union membership was down just .2%, from the previous the, at 11.1%, and that number of workers in union was little changed. newre you expecting this and innovative ways and the rise to actually impact your membership numbers, sir? or do you see it accomplishing need to accomplish without necessarily needing to grow membership? some ofka: i think it's both, david. you have workers are finding

innovative ways to come together to raise wages and this, by the way, 2015 is going to be a for collective bargaining. five million of our members are this year contracts and so far the average wage 4.3% so has been about we're starting to push wages up likef you look at places wal-mart and target and ikea, are cominglaces together to push for wage increases. so you're seeing a lot of forms, innovative forms of collective action and wouldher thing that i think is if you notice, we are drivingorkers are now the debate about the economy. we drove the debate on trade. it was a different debate this time around. most of the time it's the neanderthals versus free trade, free tradest versus and it wasn't this time.

it was about whether the trade agreement was good enough, rules were good enough. we changed that debate. we changed the debate on inequality, presidential candidates are all starting to address that. so -- and then in the meantime we've also organized workers, alabama andrs in afscme organized 135,000 members into their union in the first three months of 2014 2014 -- 2015 so it's a combination of workers coming collectively to demand a better deal and then those workers coming together also to form unions. david: can you talk about the selection of a democratic presidential candidate. to press reports, you met with the vice president biden last thursday. where does the endorsement process stand and is biden a fit for labor?

mr. trumka: the vice president friend and great champion of working people but the next phase of his in publics career service is a decision for him his family. i don't know whether he would run or not but he has been a ofd friend and a champion workingeople. david: you're not going to do an morningent here this unfortunately. do you see bernie sanders as especially skilled in talking about the concerns of working people? mr. trumka: i think he's connected. he has a unique and genuine way of talking about the most in politics and that's inequality in america but our processin before -- i don't endorse anybody. i announce what our members want to do, quite frankly. we've encouraged our affiliates to do, each and every go back and talk

to your members. give them the facts honestly where candidates stand and then find out their wants and that out,you find then endorse that candidate and work that candidate to make sure adhere to the policies espoused and when we come together, we'll have our affiliates come together after haveprocess is done, we'll a debate and eventually we'll endorse a candidate. endorse a candidate, it will be representative of what our membership wants, needs and really desires. david: we're going to rick khao and robert celebinger, amanda to start. >> the browning ferris case. see congress this fall, republicans in congress, taking an aggressive approach to trying that and doblock you see democrats backing up the

congress?democrats in mr. trumka: i think you will see an aggressive approach by republicans to start anything that helps workers get a fair shake. they've done that repeatedly for the last several years. it again.do i would expect two things. democrats,ect friends of workers to stand up to defend that decision because a right and fair decision and two, i would expect that the ever did get it through, the president would .eto it >> gallup this morning released obama'showing president approval rating among union 52%, down down to from 69%. mr. trumka: i can't hear you. gallup has released a new poll showing president obama's approval rating among union workers is down to 52%, one point off of its low, and down when he was from elected and re-elected.

how do you explain his sliding labor?g among mr. trumka: he's still represented by 52%. be a lot ofe would that would hov -- to have 52%. he's tried hard. he hasn't done everything that done --and we haven't he hasn't done everything we agree. with i think you're seeing the residuals of t.p.p. our members understand the importance of a good free trade helpment that really does workers and changes the rules of the environment because you've group ofe nafta a rules designed to lower wages, give corporations more entitlement and we want an end to that so you're seeing the residuals of that. he supported it firmly, still oppose it.e david: do you agree with the "new york times" story this that in his argues

second term obama's taken a turn helping workers with various regulation? do you notice a change? mr. trumka: i would say he's probably been more overtly pro term. in the second you have overtime rules that we've talked about. his appointments that he'd made to various places. wage increases he's given to federal employees, his starting openly about how bargainingollective is for workers to raise their standard of living. the fact that he's having a the whites year at house to talk about collective bargaining and increasing the workers' voice. comenk all of those together to say, yeah, i think in the second term he has done. now, when you talk about regulations, there's also health regulations and something that genuinely

me.ers country 150 this workers die from injuries received on the job or health, diseases they pick up. 150. knew that and you i'll bet not one of you has written about that. of you's concerned about it because they die quietly. who died from black lung, died at home after years lung,fering from black expired. we haven't seen the needed regulations keep pace with the environment of the work place. to get been trying regulations passed for

silica. they're finally starting to move years. mine health and safety regulations, they start to move then every disaster and they slow down after their mine that leave the has smoke belching out of it, regulations slow down. we kill 150 workers every day in this country. anyone.that bother shouldn't you right about that. demand a safe work place? isn't that something everybody's to?tled in my opinion, yeah. so when you talk about haven't donewe anything near enough when it comes to health and safety regulations. >> i want to take you back a and ago to your remarks simply your answer to my

about the political thes of the afl-cio in elections of last year and governorlly you said, walker of wisconsin was public enemy number one, your phrase, revealed that the a freshwould have target in texas, that there was great opportunity to make ofitical gains on the issue regulation and new workers coming into the workplace, placed priority on texas. of those states went strongly republican. walker is a presidential governor perry is a presidential candidate. mr. trumka: really? >> looking back, what do you think -- are you going to change your goal and put a different yoursis for 2016 on agenda? mr. trumka: our goal then and

our goal now is a simple thing. it's called raising wages agenda. you remember at the beginning of the year we started off with a summit talking about raising wages agenda and we had academics in, we had politicians in, we had business people in, and we talked about raising wages. that is still the yardstick and are usingoal that we in every election. we did make gains in texas. we built tremendous grand strength there and we did a job there andnal that continues to grow. walker, i have -- i've said i need to say about him. [laughter] mr. trumka: he is a national asgrace and he's still national disgrace and, yeah, he's a candidate but we'll see that ends up. now fifth in iowa.

he was leading there for a while andthere is no there there people discovered that and we will see what happens in this presidential election, whether walker or rick perry are the nominees. only pray. >> both states target wisconsin year?xas next mr. trumka: we will go on a states.f we haven't decided on all the targets right now. we're focused on pennsylvania right now because we have a race on in 2015. we'll focus on kentucky because there in 2015. tore not looking beyond 2015 2016 right now. 2015.looking at david: amanda becker from

reuters. [indiscernible] reporter: insisting that the candidates -- and what role would the federation play if we end up with a that doesn'tminee support -- what role would the federation play in the scenario in which we may have a intoratic candidate going the general that isn't with labor on key issues, will that way you interface? mr. trumka: i don't know it's fair to say there are candidates on the democratic side that aren't with labor on key issues. you're seeing, when you clearly path, how populace popular you get and how the support gets very, very activated. candidates that try to skirt the issues, not talking about where t.p.p. hurts you when

it comes to activating the generalip and the populace. they want to know where people they disagree with you, they want to know where you are. so i think any candidate will and give aome active clear path on how they're going to raise wages and the role we catalyst to make sure that, one, any candidate that ultimately gets the support of articulated a has clear path to a shared economy, how they would change the rules the economy work for everyone and then, two, after our role would be to make sure we hold them accountable so that they make reality after they get elected. reporter: i want you to weigh in not you're with brady in the deflate gate issue. we had a kid die in a mine in an

accident and it got a lot of thingsike you say these do and then it disappeared. expect out of the obama administration? what do you think you'd be able to get in the area of safety? mr. trumka: the first let me give you the positive. president obama named joe mane to head emshaw and he is probably the most effective -- emshaw thatre i have seen in my lifetime. he does a great job. he enforces the law and he is doing everything he can to make mines safer and he is making despite some short comings in the regulations. the same with osha. head of osha is doing a great job enforcing the act. is a very weak act that makes it difficult to enforce. areresources they have

totally inadequate. fournk if they take them or 500 years to inspect every workplace in the country just time, which isn't much of a deterrent. to focus on the resources that osha has but he's good job there. think regulation side, i for most of the first term and the beginning of the second he was baited by republicans talking about too regulations and he said, the show you, so regulations just stopped. silica is an example. everybody's known the dangers of silica. by the way, seven people die every day from silicosis, seven every day. sundays, holidays, every day -- seven die every day. not my workers, workers across the country. theycould be carpenters,

could be cement works breathing noica because there's standard for silica in this country. every other industrialized has a standard for it. we don't. this for 100bout years. a you remember your history, place called hawk's nest. happened in west virginia in the 1920's. they were drilling a tunnel through a mountain for a young workers started dying after three, four, five months. that theyid silica were drilling through and they were getting silicosis and dying started studying it and found out that silica's bad for it butwe've known about the standards in this country are totally inadequate. o.m.b. for almost

two years, o.m.b. doing nothing. to get they're required the regulation out for over 60 days. what they were doing, sitting on it or what. but they didn't do what they it outquired to do, get one way or the other. we finally talked to the convinced them, now.e've gotten it moving we'll see where it goes. if it doesn't get done by the thenf the administration, it's not likely to happen president, if it justa republican, would whack all of those and we'd have to start all over again. david: kevin joseph, "new york times." reporter: i'm curious, you said is don't know what joe biden thinking but do you want him to run? do you want to see the field point?at this

talked to a lot of member union folks talking about the head decision between bernie sanders. mr. trumka: what? reporter: head versus heart decision between bernie sanders and hillary clinton. bernie they seem to like but hillary is more likely to get the nomination. up in thee coming polls, do you sense a shift with your member unions in terms of him a more serious look? how are you perceiving the a biden campaign? mr. trumka: first of all i think the field is still wide open. there's still a lot of time. in elections gone by, they hadn't even announced yet day the year before the election, and the campaigns took off labor day before the election. that's when everything, people and gotlistening accelerated. so there's a lot of time for things to happen and for issues to unfold and we keep pushing

those issues. them and making thoseates respond and respond with sharp answers that our workers can identify that thoseses the needs of workers, they get the support. not just, i'm going to vote for them. but they get active support and that's the difference between having supporters, ok, i'll come people that, and will work between now and election day. so that i think makes a large difference. i said everything there is to say about joe biden. biden's a good friend, he's been a champion of working people and he's got to decide whether he's going to run or not. he's got a lot on his shoulders, i'd say and when you commit to run for president, you guys unfold every crease, you badger that isver stuff

totally irrelevant, out in the great but you make it issues. david: that's the jobs program. mr. trumka: i don't fault you for it. sometimes i do. but he has to decide whether focus forhe full that. he and his family and i don't know the answer to that. he knows the answer to that. he would be awe good candidate. he would be a good president. his decision is his decision and ons going to fall completely him. reporter: i don't know you've by namelary clinton yet. mr. trumka: i haven't said name except his name because you asked me specifically. reporter: can you talk about how you're feeling about hillary clinton at this point? mr. trumka: i think these an experienced person. i think she would make a great president. out ak she has to figure

way to energize workers and that's come up with a narrative believes in and two, she's willing to fight for because that's the litmus test workers look at. likean mouth empty words, jeb bush said, inequality in this country is terrible. worker believes he'll address it in a way that works for them do, anyways. she has to come up with that narrative and if she does, she can catch fire, too. she's got the drag of all the other issues. this in the past and i'll say it again. hillary clinton has to do a-plus work to get a c. why?ou know i think because she's a woman. that's tough in this country and it's something that male candidates don't have overcome. reporter: i wanted to ask you about the gig economy and

specifically uber and lift. are the afl-cio contemplating to address the gig economy? mr. trumka: first of all, we've of them.ch the economies i give you -- i listed, i'll find them in a second. but you see what happened in seattle. seattle's passing a regulation that gives everybody, uber people, everybody the right to collectively bargain, to have a collective voice. so that those workers, that they try to say are independent and we don't have anything to do with them, now they're going to at least in going to be tougher. the same with the decision from year.rb last , any franchisees that you control, yeah, you're part of the employer and you run away from them.

that's going to make it easier butthem to get a voice we've done gawker, we've done salon. of those have arganized just recently. and i'll find all of them in a second. i can't remember everything off the top of my head, as brilliant am. or not as brilliant as i am. them.s, i'll find can't find them. josh, you have that list of snings cansalon and that?v -- give me i hate to walk away from that you. without giving it to

if we get it later, my highly multilingual assistant can send it to everybody in the room. talk to: i wanted to you about the minimum wage campaign across the country. specifically, do you have a threshold in mind for minimum you support the $15-an-hour wage and if so, how that conclusion that $15 an hour is the right wage for workers. mr. trumka: here it is, gawker, vice, the guardian and salon, digital outlets have joined unions recently. reporter: the minimum wage across the country and threshold. fastu have a hard and

threshold. how do you come up with a minimum wage? mr. trumka: it shouldn't be a be aum wage, it ought to working wage. work shouldn't trap people in poverty but it should lift them out of poverty. if you work for minimum wage, you earn below the poverty level. $15 is a good minimum wage but out to be a living wage and grow with the economy as the economy grows. number ofrgeted a cities with those campaigns in effect. last election, five states increased the minimum wage significantly and two cities did, as well, one at least to $15. others even places like aresville, alabama, discussing it right now and other places. the cities that we have, we off with 10 cities. it's now 14 cities because we it where weities to

have campaigns going on to do that internally. and to do things like we've done in seattle, to start talking about ways to address places, that were left behind because of archaic labor laws classifying, somebody as an independent contractor and saying yeah, i butrol all of your work you're independent, i don't have to deal with you. so we're working on those. again, shouldge, be a living wage and indexed to inflation. china plush recent foo

manipulating currency to help the economy shows the need to have currency manipulation in any trade agreement that will be perpetual. then you notice other countries followed afterward with currency manipulation. you still have rules of origin, rules that are still out there. there are a number of ocean issues they still talk about. unfortunately, it is sort of sad -- we heard that mexico and canada have a higher wage that the united states, that the united states has made a deal with japan. does anybody know what rules of origin means? in order to get the terrorists protection -- terrorists t

--arriff protection, in the participating countries -- with nafta, it was 65%. the product had to be 65% made in mexico, u.s., and canada to get the terrorists -- tarriff reduction. that has dropped down and is now into talking about in the 20's, 20%. which is absolutely ludicrous, so much worse than even nafta was. it would cost jobs and it will cause a lot of unemployment this location. it will allow china to participate and get all that the -- benefits of tpp by sending products to other countries. china can make 70% of your product is set to another country making a 25% of the product and that would get the benefits as if it were more --

were made in the tpp countries. >> on the presidential endorsement process, the afl-cio has traditionally waited to see how the primaries played out, the exceptions were in 2000 with gore and 84 with mondale. do you see any scenario in which the afl-cio endorses before the iowa caucuses or new hampshire primaries? are you seeing any consensus among larger member unions, any consensus among larger unions or has the vice president's recent deliberations essentially put that endorsement process on ice? >> i think most of our affiliates are still going through the process that i described earlier. going to membership, getting the facts, trying to find out whether members are, what they

want and desire and which candidate fits that. most of them haven't completed the process. i think we have had a couple of unions that have endorsed so far and they went through the process. ast did that to endorse hillary. the machinists endorse hillary. the process continued. some are more further along than others. some are probably -- within a month or so -- they could endorse. we have encouraged them. go with that candidate, but nathan deal with our issues. if you went with them, make sure those issues are prominent enough -- how are you going to deal with inequality in the country? how are you going to deal with raising wages? how will you strengthen the

voice of workers in this country so they get a fair shake and make the candidate talk about those issues. if we do that, if we hit all candidates talking about those issues then the matter who wins, we have one. our goal has to bed to get those issues on individuals issues. >> endorsing before iowa or new hampshire? >> probably not. probably -- no matter how i say this -- i never can get it right. if i say it is conceivable, the headline will say something different. if it is conceivable -- it is conceivable that it could happen. i would say it is not likely.

although conceivable. >> we will go next to michael rose from bloomberg, any whiskey from the globe. -- andy wind ski -- >> canyou talk about labor law reform -- you mentioned -- or use the word archaic fairy -- several times a day. i was wondering if you could talk about in an ideal world how would you like to see labor law changed and are there any prospects for any of that happening, assuming we still have a republican congress or how do you see the fight for that going forward? >> i say archaic for a reason. they were written in 1949. is anybody think the economy is the same as 1949? yeah. if you look at any international agency that lists workers

rights, you can see how low we scored because our laws are very bad. bernie sanders is talking about labor law reform. i can see a small bill dealing with remedies that would be introduced in the house in the senate before long. that will be debated and people will get a chance to say whether they are for it or against it. and we will debate that. the more we debated, the better off it is. you will see a lot of that in a couple years. workers understand how they get it put to them with the laws, like the uber people. until we had the change, they were excluded from the laws. wie uber people. they we had the change, were excluded from the laws.

work in fields get excluded from the laws and our laws just are very, very archaic. when you look at government employees areeral state employees or county or employees, it's all over the map. their rights are skewed back and forth. tot don't have the right collective bargaining of any sort, even though they paid a for bad decisions of elected leaders. andll see a lot of that there will be a good debate. the debate will decide. ask every candidate, you support it or don't support it. that do will be good and those that don't will tell them something. reporter: two things, one was that -- can you hear me? when you were talking

you said two things that struck me. that hillary clinton needs to figure out a way to energize workers and that hillary clinton needs to do a c.s work to get like she needs to do a-plus work only get graded as a c and i'm curious if you can talk a bit in are about those two things in the context of if it'sh warren and really gender -- mr. trumka: that's way beyond my pay grade to be able to put the deck together with hillary -- >> hillary -- thatter: but you're saying hillary is not energizing workers and in part because of that she has to work a-plus work-- the to get a c but you look at the landscape. elizabeth warren is energizing curious.and i'm

mr. trumka: you're mixing apples and oranges with what i said. reporter: please clarify. mr. trumka: when i talked about hillary having to do a-plus work, i think over her career she's done extraordinary things and they get minimized.

when you say i don't know whether it is good or i think thy that the workers derived. they really had to speak to the wants in the needs of workers out there. and not just earners. they'll need a narrative peer-to-peer is how i'm going to solve your problem. here's what i'm going to do to create a real economy of shared disparity that changes the rules

and really does make work pay. they will have to be specific about it. if they do that, i think that energizes workers. it elizabeth warren does mn nixon job of articulating the needs of workers. people respond to it. i think bernie does a great job. i think hillary has done a good job. workers have responded at those times. here's the economy. here is where you fit in. here's what i'm willing to do. then they got to believe that that candidate is going to fight to make that vision a reality. in the last election when we analyze this, we spent a great deal analyzing this. they said that they heard no coherent economic message coming

from the democrats. none. not from the republicans. 80% of those that we talk to you said that bullet parties leave too much to wall street and too little for main street -- both parties leave too much for wall street and too little for main street. if it is unclear where you stand that residual knowledge takes over. >> i'm sorry. >> alex. sean. >> that is why they assign someone smart to me just to get across the street. >> during the fight there were some democrats on the hill who are frustrated that some of their colleagues who may not have voted how they would like,

but they're still be targeted by outside allies. the democrats were be targeted by outside groups that are in general loyal to democrats over this one issue. do you expect the same intensity? especially if it is closer to the election? do plan to put equal pressure on democrats who are per trade? -- portrayed? >> yes. >> you want to elaborate on how you plan to do that? >> you asked me by 10 to run a campaign, yes. will it be intense? yes. will a rollo everything we have? yes. we're still working to try to make it an acceptable agreement. i don't know how far we are getting, we are working. we will keep submitting information. we will keep rounding up people to talk about the issues. see what happens. we will run a campaign. we will run a campaign to pass

it. i suspect that it will be a campaign to defeat us. what we have seen so far is not very exciting for workers. >> i got that one right. [laughter] >> thanks. it leaves me to my question. maybe you just -- share your thoughts. the republican field is huge. i want to to talk a little that about donald trump and his relationship with workers and also maybe the comments about that middle-class that make them sound a little bit like hillary. i'm not sure what you think about that here. also,. -- and also, case it -- kasich.

and working-class pennsylvania. >> i think what donald trump started with immigration is the interests. i think it is un-american. i think it is racist. it is saying that one group of people is superior to another group of people. look at what it has done to the other candidates. chris christie starts talk about tracking immigrant workers like fedex packages. rick perry says that undocumented workers is a disease. jeb bush is talking about anchor babies and rings that go wrong with it.

in one way that is horrible and a step backwards to the country. quite frankly on another level it shine to spotlight on that issue and it is letting us talking about it and let american start to discuss it in earnest away from the spotlight. it has given us an opportunity to go out. the afl-cio has put together a race commission to go around the country talking to our members about race. i believe that the afl-cio movement has an obligation not to be ok on race. we have to be exemplary. we had to lead the way on that discussion. we're taking that seriously and we are working on it.

the same with immigrant rights. we're taking that on your thing with black lives matter -- on the same thing with black lives matter. if you are the center dot of workers, if you forgot we came from, it doesn't matter much to me. it is what your policies are. he helped pass more laws for workers and virtually anybody else. don't tell me your pedigree and that you forgot everything. if you remember it come it should show up in your policies. i'm the son and daughter -- i'm the son of immigrants. both my parents. i didn't forget where i came

from. i was given speeches. i didn't forget. i background molded me into that. somewhere along the line he gets separated you he does a like to talk about the fact that while his dad and mom may have been workers, he got a free ride with law street -- wall street. made a bunch of money on those deals. his dad's sweat and mom's sweat put him in a position week ago to wall street or go to work with the workers. he chose wall street. >> [inaudible] >> any thoughts on trump's

comment on the need to help the middle class? >> was trump ever in the middle class? we will see. we will see his policies. i would like to see him come out with policies that generally help the middle class. i would welcome that. i would welcome them talking about policies that help the middle class. that would be democracy at its finest. i haven't seen it yet. seeing democrats tried to talk about the economy and talking about it searcy. they're still tied down in the same tired old self. we have got to get rid of government. everything will be great. let's freeze the government out so they can't do anything.

it bounces off of people now. inequality is the issue of the day. how are you going to address it? trickle-down economics. duh. >> getting back to immigration in little bit. how close our workers paying attention to this? what do you see in this type of language having in six months -- grexit is dangerous. -- >> it is dangerous.

it starts to become mainstream. racism can never become mainstream. the danger of it is if we believe as he does that one group of people is superior to another group, it tends to govern them. i'm talking about trump. all of them are talking about it in the same way now. in order to pander to the right, they have to go so far to the right beyond what is probably most of them genuinely the leave -- believe. if the intent to govern that way, that is bad for this country. to say one group of people is better than another group of people is bad for this country. bad for democracy. i think it is dangerous. someone has to stand up and say, enough. walk it off. knock it off. talk about issues that matter.

the system does drive down wages for everybody. i get cheated out of wages. my we just get lowered. i have a lower standard to live in. gretchen at issue is important to raising wages. to not talk about people from the south of the border coming this way and only south of the border. he doesn't refer to white agreement -- white immigrants are can immigrants. he refers to people south of the border.

six months from now, the country will suffer the scars from this unless somebody calls them out on it. >> we are out of time. we need to stay on schedule. appreciate it, sir. >> thank you. >> on the next washington journal, the diplomacy efforts behind the iran deal. the u.s. military and political failures in iraq. and notions swarts talks about the august jobs report and a possible hike in interest rates.

we will talk about the -- take your calls and we will discuss it on twitter and facebook. >> this labor day weekend, three days of politics, books, and american history. here are a few of the features for labor day monday beginning at 10:00 a.m. eastern. a town hall event in seattle discusses the pros and cons of civil liberties. later, a debate on how to reduce poverty. between president obama and arthur brooks. remember mark cuban and george w. bush on leadership skills. c-span2's book tv. a discussion on in-depth with lynne cheney. who will take your phone calls,

e-mails, and tweets. later at 9:00, catherine eden talks about how families from chicago to appalachia and the mississippi delta are surviving on no income. authors like eric and others share their thoughts on social and political issues. on c-span3, sunday afternoon, 4:00, real america, crowded out. the national education association film addressing overcrowded schools following the baby boom. and our interview with david rubenstein. get the complete schedule at c-span.org. coming up tonight, a look at how new technology is being used for civic engagement.

and the nikki haley talks about race relations. and later, the u.s. labor movement. >> dustin haisler is chief information officer. it is a company focused on incorporating high-tech. he recently spoke at the city club of cleveland about the use of social media and other trends in cities across the globe. this is just under an hour. >> it is official. good afternoon. >> it is official. good afternoon. in recent years we have heard a

lot about how technology could improve citizen engagement. i spent an earlier part of my career mining that. i educated a council meeting on trinity engagement. citizens report potholes and inaccessible public meetings and contribute ideas and fun community projects. when it comes to disruptive technology, the stories we most often hear about uber and airbnb. the question is not whether there is disruptive tech elegy, but which it disruptive technology to employ? i have built a track record as an early innovator. they pioneered use of commercial technologies, including quick response codes. qr, it stands for something.

[laughter] in 2010 822-year-old chief innovation officer a 22-year-old chief innovation officer set up labs. he then joined california as director of government information to help from civic innovations. in this role he helped shape the communities product services in future direction. educate come accelerate, and scale technology innovation within the extent there. dewar, dreamer, and driver in 2009. he has often give -- he is also given to speeches.

ladies and gentlemen, ladies and friends of the city club of cleveland, please join me in welcoming dustin haisler. [applause] >> it is an honor to be here and discuss ideas on how to disrupt government. let me go back and start with my story. i was a anchor. i was recruited to be a finance director -- i was a banker. i was recruited to be a finance director. it was a very stressful time to be in city government. i had to find creative ways to get things done. you can only do so much.

mr. begins with tried to find ways to leverage that and find ways to leverage our ecosystem and partners and to do good things in government. the action didn't get a response. i have this idea. i would like to launch a portal that lets us collect ideas from residents and implement them. it is great to have their logo on our partnership ecosystem. profound story is all of the tech elegy that came out of it -- technology that came out of it could be transmitted anywhere. my job was to transplant technologies and try to take the knowledge ease in the public sector and scale it to cities of all sizes. what i realized is cities are really a platform for innovation and that innovation starts. there this concept that it rose hill.

-- blows downhill. it actually goes uphill. the cities also have a significant amount of challenge. look at city governments today. aging infrastructure. many cities that are small and trying to keep up new transformation technologies and try to retrofit solutions. there is a lot of challenges. we have a vast number of employees in city government that are looking at retiring. this has been nicknamed the silver tsunami. we have a good portion of retirees are looking at the work. 75% of the global work wforce -- how do we recruit them and get them to stay in government? these are all present challenges. there is no money in government, especially at the local level. many cities are still trying to recover.

look at the recent stats we have pulled. that is pretty astonishing. we have a growing population base. we're coming on to all kinds of new people in our country. we have no basis or economics to be able to support them. this creates all kinds of new challenges. we had uber a new business models coming in. airbnb, we have these same challenges. everybody could share their access capacity. you can also rent drones.

we don't have that problem and texas. we have shotguns. in vegas, that was an issue. it has reached a point where you could rent them. now it could reach anybody. there are also many other disruptive technologies on that side as well. these are all companies where people have shared access capacity whether it is something they own or their car or a room in their house. people are finding interesting ways to monetize their access capacity. these are average consumers. we're not outsourcing label to other markets. it is difficult with how you regulate these within the existing constructs. i want to talk with the fueling transplant all of these disruptions that are happening.

let's start with hyper connect to pity. and you -- connectivity. when you going to restaurant, what do look for? wi-fi. wi-fi has connected a number of devices. population at 7.1 9 billion people -- 7.19 billion people. this has created a hyper connected network we have the ability to jump online and do interesting things. that brings me to the next disruptive trend. critical mass. there are companies like facebook and google that are looking at reaching that divide by ingesting drone companies and looking -- investing in drug companies and looking to bring it to third world countries. we still have a gap in a digital

divide we have to bridge. we are making strides against that divide. i thought this was timely. warehouse announced that they are offering free internet in over 20 cities across the country. google made a similar announcement. these are big strides i tried to take that digital divide and start to shrink it. it is fueling interesting behavior online. what do people do online? over 3 million facebook likes. that is a lot of likes. [laughter] with a lot of the happening online. the internet was just starting to creep into homes. it we wanted to build a website, we would have read a book.

i never read it. this is a big challenge that we had. introducing it into the market was too great. now look at today. people are creating things that rival anything from 15 years ago . they could take a picture. but a nice filter on it. uploaded to instagram in seconds. this is an interesting trend. the barriers of creating have been removed. anyone can introduce anything into the market. what we have seen is that technology has unlocked people. everything has been out under. basically you could take any idea of any concept, any radical thing you want implemented in the online to a global market.

if so let's idea, they could invest money behind it. kickstart is a great example. there is a pebble watch. it was with a bunch of banks and venture firms to build this watch that connects to your. this was before the market watch and everything else. kickstarter, let's raise $100,000 in 30 days and we will have people pledge money or a watch. people validated that there was a market need for that technology. it wasn't about who they knew. fast-forward to today. there is a competitor to the apple watch. they will be raising $500,000.

the market is validated for the solution. there's a global network of interconnected people that have the ability to influence change in the. this is crazy technology. look at what that is doing worldwide. we see disruptive things like the eric's ring and often a wall street. my favorite example -- anybody remember this? bank of america came out a few years ago. we saw how well people responded to that. they didn't respond very well. they went backwards instead, we heard you. you are not going to do that. they were able to change a decision. this is really powerful. it has allowed them to create new organizational structures. people could self organize on the internet.

facebook or instagram even if the platform doesn't have the ability to form groups. people still form hierarchical structures online. they are able to influence is this decisions and do all kinds of disrupt interactions. government is a big focus area for many new workers coming in. eltek to introduce new concepts. most of it was deflected. fast-forward to today. we have a very different landscape. people are able to influence change in their communities using disrupt the tech elegies outside -- technologies. now i want to talk a little bit about what people are building with tech knowledge he.

people are building new ways to work. 53 million americans are online. 53 million americans. but a lot of people freelancing online. they have gone to a website. they're really good at these are to these. businesses have met them and hide them to do the specialized actions. kind of like ebay for jobs. people could go and get work done that way. this is changing the way that millennial's look to the labor market in the future as well. that stuff is going to 74 million americans within the next -- that is 50% of the workforce. that is a staggering six. look at the future of work that are racing to allergy.

futures are distributed. workers are engaged. the best employees may not work for you. they may be contract terms and maybe fall under a model like over -- uber. they're able to do a task for you and do it very cheap rate. it is a mutually beneficial transaction. it is very controversial. it is something we are beginning to see on the consumer side. a model like this would only have procured labor. these models are going to be very disrupt for government in the future. if finding new ways to diffuse innovation in the market. the way that we create and adapt technology has changed. now we could meet front that by introducing an idea or concept online. anyone can do it.

introduce technology that has the potential to disrupt the market. it doesn't matter who you know what your role is. you could do something that creates change. since then investors lets you put them on crowdfunding. let's say you want to put into your neighborhood. now you can go to website. you can crowdfunding with your neighbors and do-it-yourself. the starting to see the implications and his change by technology online or people could make improvements that they want. i have seen. arts and a thousand other technologies that have been done in this. let's talk about something a little bit closer to home. and it had become. what is the stacking things we have seen -- let's talk about a

new company. one of the staggering things have seen these governments are nuts. these are startups that are focused solely on doing business with government while taking the place of government. this is a good example of one. it is a pop-up mass transit system. this is a real starter. it basically does the city buses and have them work routing using uber back end. very popular and very disruptive. we started looking at what was happening there. these companies are popping up left and right. they're doing in sitting cap -- civic tech get ideas for my government agency. they are building erp is for government. financial systems. they're doing a smart

infrastructure. they're finding intelligent ways to bring a layer of data top of the environment. they're also doing it from a transactional point. companies that are taking service delivery and offering that is a service to government agencies as well. there is full list online that you can see as well. this market is really coming. why is that? they spend billions of dollars on information to allergy. a lot of money for technology is beginning to rise. it will continue to increase. technology has become the backbone of everything where you are putting in road or revamping your website. there is a technology component to it. that leads to new ways for the government.

one of the unknown things is that brigades of them. they have a global system of communities that are active and finding new ways to help government building technologies for government. it allows people to collectively come together within the committee and young technology to improve their citizens. it was amazing that technology some of these individuals were able to build. we're talking about new ways to plan cities. it is really fascinating to see. we're starting to interesting things being built. that is how cities are responding. the dedicated models that are looking to try to incubate.

it is an organization that has been. we're starting to see really interesting cases and cities that are focusing on innovation. they're doing it through organization. you also see sandboxes being created. you have created a place to come in. they provide technology resources for them to tinker. they come up with ideas to improve government. it is really interesting. and that innovation. it is a broad concept. it is not something employees good wrap their arms around. people are able to actually go and collaborate and share ideas. it has been interesting platform for them.

their new models of civic engagement. mine was time to get some to show up to a council meeting and vote. that has been flipped. now i could opt in to be a sensor for my government. whether you hit a pothole or irregular road vibration. you don't need to take a picture . it is by a citizen acting in to be a sensor to the network. it is a new form of engagement. there are environmental sensors and bike wheels. they are mapping pollution. it is done in real time. the u.s. is experimenting with

this in south america is to start to look at phones for early detection of earthquakes. seven seconds early detection using a network of phones by creating a net. there are several implications of this technology. the big shift is -- it is willing to opt in. it allowed you to do interesting rings. -- interesting things. this is one of my favorite examples. they use uber to help cart individuals to jury duty. that is a big problem in government right now. most people want to get out of jury duty. but it's a lack town car comes to take you to jury duty, you might be -- black town car come to take you to jury duty, you might be more inclined to do it. [laughter]

there's one state that is looking at using uber for senior citizens. they could save billions of dollars by leveraging the infrastructure of uber deckard senior citizens around here at it is more convenient. it ought to call a day ahead. they could call whenever they need an uber to pull up. looking at airbnb, there is resiliency that is impacting cities across the country. there is an automatic need for housing. when you have displaced residents, unique to find a way to house them. these are leverage their airbnb infrastructure. we're using the economy and these peer to peer networks and flipping them around tsolve a problem problem -- public problem and to be used for good.

one of the biggest challenges is procurement in government. they will put out $50,000 right here and look for ideas and technologies that could solve that specific point. it is interesting is challenge-based models. there is challenge.gov. you can go in as an average system -- a citizen and submitted online. there's feedback and validation from the network. easy see the focus on execution and results. this is really interesting. in government, it is money. it is easy to have ideas. it is hard to implement those ideas. in the brilliance of this is anytime you start external, your

employees medially turn on you. they have had great success with this. there really focusing on an internal aspect. another great example is this new model of how to work with startups. they are targeting government. it is something that has been done at venture capital for a while. people come in and incubate her technologies here. -- there technologies here. over 200 companies submit to be a part of this program. it has been a great result with the technology that has come out of it. now open data. hitler using as a platform for

innovation and change. they will grow and flourish on top of it. how do you implement it? something needs to happen. i have some tactics. number one, shift your mindset. if you don't build it, someone else will in government. we have a focus on partnerships and ecosystems. number two, redefine innovation. there's often not a lot of concrete variables. i look at the ipad itself. it wasn't an invention. it was all the components that made it necessary work in

existence. we took the iphone and repackaged it in a larger format it became a very disruptive innovation for the market. it is about finding adjacent possibilities. take components that you already have an finding new uses for that to be highly disruptive. you have to leverage the partnerships within your communities with academia for small business are anyone passionate about civic change. they are your advocates in your stakeholders. -- and your stakeholders. experiment like you invest.

if we experiment and innovated like reinvested, it would be very different. could diversify our experiments and portfolios. they are a lot of bit more audacious in nature. you need a basis for showing the public what you are doing. show transparency week these innovations. show your adaptation. the public buys into that. it is ok to fall as long as you explain why and what you did and are looking at it from an investment portfolio standpoint.

number five, don't be afraid to do big things. it doesn't matter how big your city is. we all have the ability to change and do the things. i believe they were too big squares. -- two big squares. the little square is 100 million hours. so, we have an abundance of cognitive surplus. a capacity to do big things in the public sector. sometimes this means reprioritizing what we do.

>> your questions should be brief and to the point. tune into our forum.

television, radio, and web distribution made possible by cleveland state university. a special welcome to our viewers on c-span. join us on tuesday, august 11 as a welcome josh mandel for a conversation on transparency. please visit us online. our community partner is open neo, making data accessible to citizens. thank you for your support. we welcome tables hosted by the federal reserve bank of cleveland. thank you for your support. now it is time for our qa day. we welcome questions from everybody. holding the microphones or stephanie jansky. first question?

>> this is fascinating. recently, i heard an article -- great idea -- individualized coffee cups, but he came back and said there is critical mass of the cups in our landfills. when he think about the undistracted technology, unattended consequences you envisioned? that is a great question. the biggest thing right now with the disruptive technology it is going to be with jobs. as many as these infrastructures are put in place, like uber, well intentionally be disrupted by self-evident technologies.

we have to look at the long-term aspects of some of the jobs associated with this. i think you are exactly right that it is important to look at that and important to think that far ahead. any time a government agency is looking at embracing some type of technology or even in the case of uber, it is important to look outside of the next year. it is important to look at the long-term implications. i like what colorado has done. they have said let's figure it out. let's figure out structure we can fit you in rather than trying to come up with a box to put you in. they will have to look at that when it comes to new technologies. they will all have a double-edged sword. >> did any of your work pertain to immigration? dustin: i have not done any work

related to immigration but it is an important part of city government and it is an important place that they can play within that because i got a lot of the diffusion of new ideas will come from that model as well and i think that it is really important to put into place different regulatory structures that make it -- make it an incentive for people to come. >> sima professor here. your presentation pretty much encapsulates all of the research that i am working on, not so much the infamous tatian but studying on the backend. some of the things in cleveland i see is that we have an administration that is completely -- or mostly -- almost completely -- adverse to implementing anything like this. i have had discussions with the mayor's office about this and it seems like we do things the way we do things and we are not

going to allow things to happen -- not going to allow open data, city apps, not a 311 system, which allows you to call 311 and kate your problem solved but they don't tell anybody about them. it doesn't work very well. and so i guess from your perspective, how can we overcome some of the political challenges that i am seeing here in cleveland that other cities don't have? dustin: that is a great question. that is my favorite question. that is why them in the private sector, it is easier to tell them. part of what the approach us to the is the inevitability of destruction if they fail to act. a great example is what happens when you try to restrict these things like you can with the uber decision coming up, we can list other cities that have done that and the chaos it has created and what the economic impact has had. looking to france and the response for the uber app after

the government cracked down on it. i think there is different examples we can point to. i always talk about -- it doesn't matter what government wants to do because people have the ability to influence change. pointing to that research and that the social norms of other agencies is incredibly helpful to show that there are other agencies across the country that have launched open data and here are the economic impacts they have had. this is why would you look at it because it provides a layer or foundation for people to build on top of. it is like, why are we not doing it? , like 311. in order for them to want to, you know, pull the trigger -- it has to be something incredible. so i can challenge to all of us into the community is how do you make the technology especially engagement technology critical and how do you paint the business value associated with it? i always show clips like what happens if we don't do it? what is the potential

ramifications if somebody stands with their own platform in a decide that they want to operate a new 311 are open data system or they control the actual data itself, and so, i hope that answers your question. >> i have a question in regards to campaign technology. modern day campaigning is essentially going to doors and asking people what they care about. this is incredibly inefficient. what kind of methods to you see being beneficial? >> i think the paper surveys we get mailed by political parties will go away because they are inefficient and basically using a way to solicit funding in order to voice her opinion. there is a lot of technology that is starting to move into the forefront of trying to leverage and split that cap. i think you are going to see technology used to crowd source sentiment.

you are going to be able to aggregated across the states, shiva take the state of ohio and aggregate the is -- and then all of a sudden the party will be able to respond to things that are happening in real time rather than waiting for the u.s. mail to deliver the results of the survey back and i think that is how our citizens operate today. when you look at facebook or twitter, we are voicing opinions every day with how we broadcast messages online and how he responded i think the political parties will have to look at leveraging that data because nobody is going to fill at a survey. they want you to just know about them and what they are passionate about. i think there is going to be some big movement there. there is going to be some day privacy concerns associated with that when they start mining that data. it is an important way to tap into the younger generation. great question. >> i am curious about the privacy issues. how do you guarantee social

security numbers and background information which is hacked in the federal government -- supposedly they have some sort of security. what you are talking about is a completely open society with no say security except the folks around security. an example of people renting out a room in the house -- and became popular in new york. what happens when it falls in any legal [indiscernible] as the other people do development be responsible because the development i was -- and we started proceedings against them because their common lisa says you cannot do that. the law doesn't seem to have caught up to technology and i can see that but i also see cap where you can mine a lot of people and then walk away like nobody is watching the shop anymore. dustin: you are absolutely right that we needed to put in place assurances for people that they can uber or rent a room in a

house on airbnb. that is one of the day points that cities are trying to regulate is to have assurances on top of whatever the individual owner may have on the property that helps cover any type of incident. from a global perspective, privacy is going to change. when you look privacy today, it is case-by-case. every platform has their own privacy. the government has their own private security defense. i think we are going to see some interesting ships and technology and i have done some research with a buddy of mine on this and we are going to see the rise of identity data providers which are clearinghouses for your data. the benefit being that it puts you in control of your data and so today if you share something on facebook, facebook owns your data. tomorrow if you share something through an idp, the data will be

owned by you and you provide a link to facebook. >> [indiscernible] dustin: i think there was a popular ceo that said 97% of businesses have experienced a breach or will experience a breach. we will have to look to things like the underlying technology of bitcoin, some really interesting work that is being done at m.i.t. and i think we will see some interesting applications of that when you start to build security into identity management on that platform. >> thank you for coming to cleveland. back to the first part of your presentation when you said two things that impact our approach. the first is that you were in a small town and that you approach individuals locally. you didn't get the support that

you wanted so you went -- how much to his geography matter on the ability to change things and specifically? are things more acceptable on the coasts? are people more embracing of things based on city size? things are smaller, more kind of agile or large cities have more resources and they get things done? how much does geography matter toward anything happen and the mindset behind the individual -- was it your private sector background that influence the ability to try and change things or have you encountered officials who they know how the public sector operates and therefore know how to make incremental change happened? so i want to know, geography, how much that matters, and that experience, how much is that matter? dustin: from an geography standpoint, if you are small, it is hard to get people to take

you seriously. it is a competitive advantage for universities because you are a petri --. -- a petri dish. you have all the ingredients for making innovation happen. you look at the private sector it is like what makes this started innovative -- a lack of funding. the fact that they have to take risks but they don't get paid. those are all ingredients of innovation because there is -- there is a finite roadway that they half to go down and so i think that you know government is looking at her from that same lens that these are all competitive ingredients that really help us to become innovative and so, i think at the local level, even at a larger level, we have a policy where we didn't finance technology and that was a really tough pill to swallow because that was really the only lifeblood that we had a overly put in place that policy it really forced us to think outside the box and really look

to our ecosystems to influence that change. from a mindset perspective, i think it is really embracing the constraints that you have and also seeing the government has the opportunity to be incredibly innovative and to lead. i think that we often kind of don't see that as eric at pasadena public sector but i think that when you look at the moon shot -- even what happened with nasa -- those are things that inspire people and whether you are a small city or large city you will have the capability of doing as of the message i always have are agencies that are on the fence with that is that you can work at this agency for 30 years and be mediocre or you can actually push the envelope and don't wait for the private sector to innovate for you but actually leave some of it here and be an active participant in that. >> i heard that in cities that have google fiber, other providers have been able to offer faster internet at lower prices. what can you do to foster competition between isps in

cities like cleveland we don't really have a dense population to attract services like google fiber? dustin: that is happening in austin right now. as it relates to cleveland and some of the other cities, it is making technology infrastructure something that you can incentivize for developers. when you look a utility infrastructure what musty but our realize is that when developments come in and 70 puts a shopping mall or something else typically the city will offer incentives for them to oversight infrastructure. in a way to they can basically pay that developers over time for billing infrastructure for future roads. and i think technology should be lumped into that in when you start to incentive i've developers to put cyber -- of fiber in the home and these new subdivisions the midcity takes an active role saying, we are going to combine tax incentives for you to oversight infrastructure because his is a big focus. we do it with water, wastewater, one at technology? i think the answer is really

looking at incentivizing technology infrastructure at the city level. >> 15 years ago, the media outlets in cleveland it an amazing piece on -- i think the city club came together with ideas -- it was amazing. it was insightful, it shows that we are basically paying for between $300 -- 300%-1000% more for redundant services in our county than necessary. since then, little or nothing has happened. how do we get the government officials off the mark and get to work on something like this? that is a great question. dustin: one of the things that i always to with strategic planning as i build an agile process of managing that going for its a relevant having that

one interception point where this is the plan, this is everything that we have here, i set up regular checkpoint so a record of that same group gets together in a talk about how it has moved. that is the accountability that sometimes officials me when it comes to some of these plans and awaited we look at things as having a conversation. i think it is is easy is that, putting that same group in the room on a regular basis to talk about what is happening and to bring ideas about how they can actually move the needle and some of the discoveries that were in that plan and then i always challenge in the comeback with ideas so that way there is some accountability where, here is that these research, find what you can do, in your organization, in your network to move the needle on these aspects of bring them back in one month. and then a kind of puts the buck on them to actually go into a little bit of research and i think if you have a key group of stakeholders that makes the accountability to actually come back to the meeting, as well. >> this is really, really exciting stuff. i want to ask a question about a

13% on the other side of that digital divide. you mentioned a couple of schools in the white house to address that. 13% is still tens of millions of folks in lower moderate income communities. at a recent conference, talked about schoolchildren going to local mcdonald's in order to do their homework very she said that this homework with the side of fries approach not only has employment and health implications. do you know of any cities that are taking approaches to helping ensure that schools and communities have access? dustin: i have seen a lot of traction in taxes with converting libraries to be digital hubs for these and students. think about the percentage of people the next a check of physical book city versus just buying a kindle virgin -- version online.

they replacing libraries with computer terminals and access points -- 3-d printers and other things the kids that don't have access to that technology at home can come in and experience it outside of school and so i think a lot of cities are folk sing on that. they are looking at the and as well. they are looking at, how can we serve our low income residents with his particular every structure that can be offered and i think the recent ruling that allowed city government to go back into the community broadband will allow an offering of those different individuals that are dis-served by internet ability. the ability to connect. >> i just had a question on the government side. so, my father works in the government and when he does more with his budget, they basically cut your budget. imo wondering what does innovation if people are able to do more with less, is the government doing anything to kind of push people to do that

and keep remaining 211 to keep some dustin: of their budgets of the can maybe do more? dustin:that is a great question. that happens is people find ways to save money, they say, gray, we can eliminate that. so what i have seen as it has to take it takes an executive sponsor to say, any savings that you have, we will a limited from your budget, we may eliminate avril lavigne at a but we will allow you to use that money new department to do other things and a lot of times that a setup in a sandbox rate is like, take the savings that you have a crude and find ways to use them because we don't have a general line item for experimenting with new technology. so i think it takes someone at an executive level -- a cfo on board to say -- you are not going to lose it -- and it has to be transparent. you get the needle on the head with, if somebody knows the doing innovation is going to reduce their budget, they are not going to be so passionate about it. but if they know that they can take the savings they have and reinvest or do something us with a, they are going to be a lot

more motivated to actually makes it happen. >> when you were talking about incentivizing government to adopt, perhaps you have heard we are going to have the republican national convention next year. do you see any way to help use that as a lever to incentivize the city of cleveland to do more? dustin: i think that event in itself or probably be have a technology focused especially from a network standpoint is a part that many people in a centralized area so i think it is looking at how can we use the improvements that come out of that a make a more sustainable long-term? and then also, i think because cleveland has a regular dialogue with the republican convention as they plan is to look at different things that they could do to help allow people from the community to plug into that a key that in cuba infrastructure in place after the event leaves so i definitely think there is opportunity to do that as they start to plan how to support that many people.

>> thank you. when you talk about opt-and technology, have you deal with issues of representativeness of a population base yucca when people are opting in, you may have a bias. how do you make sure what -- the information you are getting is representative? dustin: great question. the data itself on phones -- when you think of a cell phones, they are equipped with a whole technology to keep the processors from overheating. so you can actually download apps and look at this to tell you temperature, pressure, all kinds of statistics. to use this data first -- where if i can lmi agency to use my accelerometer, i am not really a biased sample, it is just based on the route that i drive and they will have to do their statistics and aggregated accordingly. i would start with that data first and what i mean by opt-in, you will have a city app that

has another site where people can opt. if i do want to do all of that, i may say, hey, i am willing to anonymously send you my senses data. in it and all of a sudden it gets kind of interesting and then you can start to reward and recognize them based on things they may not even realize a day, like, hey, you mapped potholes. so i think there is images and things that can help start to move the needle on engagement but it is all about the trigger and i see that is the first trigger and then as you start to get them to invest in c their investment by doing work than the magic starts to happen. >> a question from twitter. -- to necessarily sustain innovation after you left. how do we sustained the actor? dustin: you codify innovation within your organization so i think the one lesson that we learn from mainer is that you have to codify it in an ordinance form or in some type

of structure that amazes sustainable so when you look at a lot of innovation offices easy across the country, the question is always raise, what happens when the ministration changes? many of them get ripped out because they are not seen as a core value or a critical faction of government, if somebody has a different philosophy about that than a gets ripped out -- that is what happened in maynard. the key is tying that into that value in function and making it a function whether it is a charter, going in and making an official department within your finances system. it is those little steps that make it a critical thing that everybody around it -- it is a big part of culture change. [applause] >> we have been enjoying a foreman featuring dustin -- if you would like to share this forum with an elected official, we will have it on youtube by the end of the day. thank you. thank you very much.

our form is now adjourned. [applause] >> next week, lawmakers return from their summer recess. as it stands right now, 38 senators have voiced support for the nuclear agreement. there are six remaining senators who have yet to say how they will vote. you can watch the senate live on c-span two. the house is expected to debate the nuclear agreement september 9. you can watch the house live on c-span. monday on "the communicators", c-span stopped by technology fairs. and spoke to people about the

future of communication technology. >> we have been building what we call the farm data dashboard. we wanted to create a one-stop shop that is a portal about agriculture and production statistics. in a disparate world, the online either, -- aether, we can bring it to a public. engineers and professional developers. access the data and start using them in ways that are powerful for them. >> fabrics will be intelligent to receive the data we send it. my fabric can soothe me with heat or vibration. other things i have wanted to do.

hopefully it will turn on here. each one of these is a module. it provides vibration or heat. >> what are we looking at here? asked these are microprocessors that tell these little actuators to vibrate. >> we have a lot of suppliers to give folks a taste of who we are. one of our suppliers here is a company called eyepatch. they have an interesting story. they were a person out of new york, a journalist. had his product created. now he is actually selling it. a success story. you can get your idea created and eventually become a supplier. >> i agree there is a long way to go. you hear debates about robots

taking over the world and becoming more intelligent than humans and so on. from a scientist's perspective, i would say that is optimistic area and i wish we were that built -- i wish were that smart to build those robots. there has been a confluence of technologies enabling us to have robots that are smarter. >> welcome to the national press club. club.