later, national black chamber of commerce president and ceo talks about minority-owned businesses in the united states and the challenges they host: good morning to you. it is monday, september the 7th. today is labor day and our entire show will focus on workforce. we'll starts with the discussion of wages. what you take home in your paycheck. rising wages are the missing piece. average wage has been stuck at past four years. we want to hear what it's been like for you. you seen them rise or fall? us at 202-748-8000 and call us at 2027488881 or

and you can zones media @ c-spanal us an journal at c-span c-span.org. bigger to be the year of wage gains and it's not. neil erwin, thank you for joining us. >> thank you for having me. host: what happened? >> it's funny, the unemployment dropping.s we saw it fall 5.1% in august. employers said they're having trouble recruiting workers and increased wages, n minimum wal-mart and mcdonald's. what is usually happening in 5.1% there these

seems to be a shadow workforce out there and people who left force entirely during the recession and have not come back yet. that adds up to millions of who might be available to come to work but aren't technically unemployed because actively looking for those d the existence of people maybe the reason. host: we saw new numbers on friday. did we learn anything new about are earning?s >> little bit. it was a pretty good month. average earnings rose 0.2%. hat's a little step up and especially over the last year when we have seen low inflation oil prices alling thatalling gasoline prices is a substantial gain. 2% and bouncing around with wage growth of about 2% for

quite some time. there is no sign of breaking out accelerating. once the inflation trend passes through and oil prices aren't anymore, that may go away. did you mentioned wages grow by about 2% so we're seeing wages increase yet we hear talk about wage stagnation. what is the difference? what you want to see people getting raises after adjusting inflation. you want real wage increases. rising 2%, then you need more than 2% wage rowth in order for people to feel any better. 2%doesn't matter if you make if everything you buy is 2% more expensive. you want is inflation 2% or 4% wage growth.

host: are there other factors talking that might be influencing how much americans are taking home. >> it's complicated. wages is a complicated mess of things. there are regulatory issues. e're starting to see some minimum wage increases, will that start to creep into the in increases, especially for people at the low middle end of the pay spectrum. things eing a lot of that might shape the dynamic of wages in the o future. host: talk about how big of a terms of play now in

compensation.yee >> you also receive health enefits and vacation time and might receive a pension or 401(k) or retirement. those are forms of compensation. those are ways your employer is paying you for the work you do. a broad look at compensation involves more than just what's wages. paycheck and data at said, there is a set called the employment compensation index. that's similar showing a trend. the year ends in june and that rose about 2%. wrap all that other stuff in, health benefits, you still pay rising about 2% a year. host: bottom line for workers who are watching our show, what they expect in terms of what their earnings will look like coming year or two. >> the good news this falling

even with this slack in the labor force and hadow workforce that works in their favor. employers a few years ago when reallyyment was 10% they had the upper hand in any kind of pay negotiation. your job, 't like they could tell you to shove it and there weren't many other jobs out there. the case anymore. we've been adding a couple hundred jobs a month or a couple we have and unemployment rate at 5.1% in august. levels that suggest even with these other issues of people having left the labor force, those are numbers suggest a more of an upper hand for workers and more negotiations.hose so you don't feel like you're being paid fairly. neil erwin, a reporter for "the new york times". thank you so much for joining us. >> thanks. host: we are discussing this america's wages. rise or seen your wages fall. you can call us and let us know.

eastern time or 202-748-8001. and andle is c-span wj facebook.com/c-span or journal @ o an c-span.org. that presidentts barack obama on monday will sign order requiring federal contractors to give sick leave. and posing new companies.on the actions will give about federal mployees a contractors the chance to earn seven days of paid sick leave.

officials told the "wall street journal" that additional workers to more sick ss days and employees would be allowed to use the paid leave to for themselves or family members. any cost to the companies offering paid sick leave of federal contractors would be offset by attrition and royalty efficiency. now, on thursday, the u.s. commerce chief economist talked about the state of the labor market in a speech in washington, d.c.. here's what he had to say. >> labor market has really in senses recovered and in other senses not recovered. we've seen the unemployment rate and we've seen the total number of jobs hit its prior peak. we've seen the rateloyment -- the normal unemployment is

5.3% and i suspect it will edge down a little bit more tomorrow morning. we'll see 200, 210,000 jobs on the job numbers and that's good. that number doesn't mean exactly it did a few years ago because we have a huge amount of underemployment. if you look at the unemployment rate and under employment rate you see that number has come hasn't come down nywhere as near as much as it should. so we have an under employment situation where we have people hat are working part-time for economic reasons. he economic reason that they can't find a full-time job and that number is down but not down where it should be. this is the story of our economy. it's good. it's okay. it's just not as good it should be. and that was martin

the employment rate in america. we are taking your phone calls on this labor day mondaabout wages. have you seen them rise or fall. our first caller comes from rio new mexico and that's john. thank america for the ability to call c-span the reatest radio program in the free world. host: all right, john. what are your thoughts this morning. your wages rise or fall? 2008 ave to go back to when the housing crash came. working as a r decided to go d back to college and get a degree. college back in may and haven't been able to find a job. applying everywhere and doing the normal stuff that people do and have a lot of good sales

ground prior to obtaining a graduating at d age 52. but when you're over 50, they at you like you're unemployable. but i've got excellent computer skills, excellent communication skills. i would say my -- i haven't seen any wages. host: did you see -- did you the your job in 2008 when risis happened and the housing bubble burst. caller: yes, ma'am. host: have you been able to find any employment? have not. i truly have not. i have a son that's going to just go out every week. today is monday i'll go to the unemployment office and see i look at ther -- computers before i go and print stuff out. make some calls and do some stuff on monday and try to get a job. but it's bad out there. this 5% ee unemployment. i've been struggling trying to

summer and all that's been offered is straight commission selling cars and i won't do that. won't do that. have a good show. host: that's john from new mexico. next caller is gretchen from connecticut. good morning to you. situation like in connecticut? caller: good morning. lost a job after a 14 year worked making very decent money. degree and the's cut in myy is 42% pay next hire. so i'm not seeing what i'm hearing on this radio show this morning. right.all no recovery yet for gretchen in connecticut. caller is john from spring, texas. you're on the air. yes, my salary is

becoming stable and hasn't gone in the last 4 or 5 years and that's my situation let you know. host: what kind of industry do you work in, john? i'm in the oil business. host: now oil has seen a big boom. benefit at all when we production?d energy caller: it went up a little bit fluctuated. host: okay. that's john from spring, texas. twitter.ments now from one commenter writes, the real uestion should be are your wages effective today as they 20 years ago. price increases lower effective wage rate. our next caller is karl from virginia. good morning to you. caller: good morning. y wages went way down because at one time i was an iron worker

wages.king damn good but my boss started hiring these and i om el salvador guess i was getting a little old and losing the step and he told said, jorge can do your job a lot faster than you what i'm third of paying you. o, i had to come up here in west virginia and get a job riving school bus which my wages went way down. but i was glad to get out of the rat race. it is, if they keep bringing these kids up here mexico and el salvador it ill spell disaster for everybody because they're driving the wages down to the live on re you can't them. i hope trump does something about that when he gets to be president. thank you. host: all right. that's karl from berkeley west virginia. a few more comments about health

care. one writes, after obamacare my wages went down and another out there, i didn't get a raise. my corporation took away paying healthcare. this story in the washington has a little bit of a different angle. headline is companies have found something to give their workers instead of raises. goes on to report, once the staple of the american into a e it's turning elic of the pre crisis economy as they come up with cheaper to employees. perks such ling out as gym membership and pet health insurance. often they are being rovided in lieu of higher salaries. ompanies say they are catering to a growing workforce who want

flexibility over security and award star mployees without permanently i creasing costs. jane from holiday, florida is our next caller. you.morning to caller: yes. good morning. show and ng on the with your question let me just background.ittle i'm 58 years old. host: go ahead, jane. on the ear you, you're air. caller: just a little background. i'm 58 years old and three years ago i had an accident and broke my job nd had to leave which was a contractor job. self-employed and i was making $12 an hour and the workforce to now i'm making minimum wage in it's $8. i don't know really what the it's $8 wage is, however an hour and i don't have any

benefits and they want me to get obamacare but it's so much money i can't afford it. milk is $4, a loaf 3.70 and gallon of gas is 3.59. a week king 40 hours after taxes and everything it's ust hard to survive in this economy right now. host: so jane, what do you think be? of the solution might do you think raising the minimum $12 an $15 an hour or hour or do you think there's another answer out there? caller: well, going back to when was in my twenties, i was money the same amount of offerployees were able to insurance. they even gave you a 401(k) well.n as now employers can't even afford employees benefits.

to give higherrd florida.th the laws in we can't get any higher wages nd people are turning to welfare because you make more money on welfare. you get food stamps. you get free phones, but i don't want to do that. i don't want to go on into welfare that's jane from holiday, calling with her perspective. 202-748-8000 s at if you leave in the eastern and central time zones. us at 202-748-8001 and we're also on twitter @ wj and at facebook.com/c-span. ast week a flcio talked about

the labor movement and impact of unions and speaking at the monitor breakfast. labor day there is a surpass labor victories and organized labor is in design. it tell you it's time to retire that old chestnut it's just not true. was an untold story about rising tide about innovative ways to get a better life. in the face of opposition. it's a story that's taken place around s and towns all the country and offices and factories and among ordinary that they canided stand together to make a

difference. momentum kly the hasn't gone unnoticed completely. gallop poll shows that upport for unions is at its highest since 2008 with 58% of approval and ing 63% are woman and the good news the really good news for us is workers from 18-34 support 66%.ns by obama administration which is preparing on the white on the workers summit in fall. our was richard t trunka talking about the state of the labor movement in america. your phone calls on your wages. have you seen them go up or go down. caller is richard from

north carolina. you're on the air. yes, good morning. host: good morning to you. yes.r: f 5% is the unemployment rate then people -- they need to start teaching math in school. that. lot higher than most people can realize that we three -- approximately 320 million people who live in the country. 50 million of them are on welfare and 40 million are looking for jobs. that's almost 100 million people out of work. -- according to the irs here is approximately illegals in the country around 30 to 40 the irs that's what said a couple of years ago. contractors on the east coast, after hurricane sandy, which came through and damage and a lot of work as done, 80% of that

was accomplished by illegals who the job and not u.s. citizens. host: what's your personal situation. employed? caller: no, i'm retired. i was working up until 2007. selling ing and properties and stuff like that. host: got out at the right time. caller: yeah. yeah. now -- gon see the -- y any shopping center and you'll see the vacant stores in the strip malls. a few years ago, you can find a part-time job and now even find a part-time job. grass cutting and lawn seems to be the number one employment around it's got to get better. opefully we'll see some improvement. but i doubt it with this

president. we need another administration. that's why trump has ideas on how to create jobs. host: all right. north carolina we'll have to leave it there. our next caller is doug from island, new york. what is your situation? caller: good morning. how are you? good. caller: listen, two things. seamus erwin is not there anymore. e always hear from economists but thing they don't acknowledge, once you stop unemployment benefits you're no longer counted. here are hundreds of thousands that are not counted. everyone is saying inflation is down. we have in the stores is shrink flation. tems, tuna fish it's now five ounces a pound of cookies or three s they're now quarters of a pound and ice

instead of a half gallon and coffee was 39 ounces and now half.29 and a host: you're saying it's just less of a product. i do organic and prices keep going up dramatically. 5.49 for a half gallon of milk. of butter.ght ounces $5.39 for organic. my situation my wages haven't increased in six years. exact lly the same. the people in these bubbles in washington, they don't take into consideration. in?t: what field do you work caller: education. host: okay. caller: yeah, education. staten island.

n "the new york times", this editorial was published today ntitled, you deserve a raise today. the editorial states policymakers should be focused to raise wages. they skeufp too soon from budget cuts. host: next up is herbert from georgia. caller: the wages have gone all way down the last 15 years. the thing -- i know two poll

fromz 20 years ago they're florida, they used to be teachers. $174,000 and that's 100 minimum e than the wage. the politicians are making more oney and they had a better healthcare way before obama and we put them in office. us.y're not fighting for i don't care if they're republican or democrat. salaries.heir everybody got a budget. got a budget for welfare and got a budget for everything else. washington, d.c.'s budget. they don't even tell you how money they spend with this benghazi stuff. millionsd millions and of dollars and don't do unemployment extension for the people. backbone ask they got wage -- e when minimum when i was growing up minimum up. went when people started organizing,

it up.ought now they think about themselves and they're spending all this is y and this woman who retired now she is retiring and off the salary than she was a teacher. come together. host: we hear your thoughts this morning. florida. good morning to you. what's the situation like in florida? it's bad. unemployment is bad. $8 at walmart and i'm making 8.50. for five years. a raise.e i got my manager is getting a car or new house. saying, oh, wow. 'm going to retire and go to hawaii, but you have to look at history. before reagan went into power

ny employer who hired illegal jail.s they were put to hire w any employer can illegal aliens and don't go to jail. a loft callers are saying the thing. those employers need to get fined and go to jail, hefty and just look at history. host: would you support an minimum wage? caller: of course. of course. i mean, we can barely make it electricity and water bill, car insurance and health insurance. perfect example, walmart, the walton, man, they're and cannot illion afford -- they're paying like hour. walmart will raise next year --

you'll get -- wow, $1 more and now i can retire. kidding me. host: all right, joe from florida. we hear your thoughts this well.ng as i want to bring in a few other headlines. professor to ard launch long shot 2016 bid. financer reformer is announce his bid on wednesday just a few days after e reached the $1 million fundraising goal he set for himself to launch a bid. announce his run in claremo hampshire. new four ion in less than weeks. now we at c-span interviewed him back in february when he talked finance reform. here's a little bit from that event. least ge, any change, at if it's against organized money

the left or the right fails, any change, including yours. into a room like this has an issue you care about. it could be climate change, healthcare, the debt, tax policy. don't care what the issue, is at the federal level you all have an issue you think is important and i'm sure most of spend an extraordinary amount of your free time on that money to ng your support causes that would advance this issue. the point to see even if your issue is in your view the issue, change on until wee won't happen change this corruption first. corrupting this influence of the way we fund the first issue because it blocks the ability of to control and steer the direction of our

democracy. host: in the news this morning "washington post" has an migrant crisis in europe. they issued a broad appeal to catholics and called on every parish and religious sanctuary to take family.refugee he pope who was thrust himself has poller rising debates entered the fray. he majority of those are muslims coming from syria, iraq francis nations and poll d in as anti-migrant seugsz were wielding religion as a weapon. the new york times" reports that europe is grasping for

answers as more migrants flood borders. here's the story from this orning -- we will turn back to the phone lines now and taking your calls on the american economy. rise or seen your wages fall in this very long and slow recovery? from corpus christi, texas steve on the line. good morning to you, steve.

almost everyd this time i call c-span, people have when you go back to class had better status. unions.trong people bode against their own bad, interest, unions are so unions have gone away. right to work states are taking over. people are saying you make $8 an voting you keep republican. lady from florida my employer can't afford. usiness owners are making more money now than any time in history. they have more money. afford to pay more for insurance. everybody should have free insurance. the employers should be playing for that. you don't need a union for that. stand up he people to and say, y'all are making all

and money off your sweat hard labor so y'all -- the mployer needs to pay for the insurance. if you don't want to pay then $15, $16 an hour. host: encourage you to stick for our next discussion. we'll be talking about unions and right to work states and the impact they've been having on the workforce. recent research. they reported on eight facts from the american worker. decades the three share of american workers has fallen by about half. you can see the chart. of in 1983 about 20% american workers were members of nions and now just 11% of american workers say they belong to an an 81. georgia ism atlanta, hollis. situation r economic like?

caller: not too good, not too good. been a mover for 17 years and i've seen the wages go down steadily. the last caller hit it right on correct. 100% the corporate ceo's are making turning the 're work load over to these so-called independent wages tors who get low and no benefits. that's what is killing the to try and they're about elect donald trump who is the exploiter corporate in the world. i mean, i can't believe they can seriously consider putting this mafia-backed guy in office. host: are you an actual employee of your moving company or do you business? wn caller: no, we're independent contractors so we don't have to don't have to pay benefits or do anything. and that's what america is going to. rise of these temp

services everywhere. for what do you do healthcare then? i get the state thing.ed medicaid type we'll be talking about self-employment and the so-called gig economy. that will be coming up in about an hour. our next caller is george from maryland. how are you doing this morning? ma'am. howd morning, are you doing? host: i'm great. look, general douglas mc arthy said that industrialists japanese empire. and beware of the industrial complex. our nation's history when they got access to of politicians we've

had economic chaos. great depression of the industrialists owned 96% of the american wealth. roosevelt came and broke up those monopolies and started anti-trust law and franklin roosevelt started the regulations. each of those times the industrialists found a way to had the nd now they deregulations in the 1980s and they have total, absolute control over these politicians nd they got these politicians having to beg them for money to take and run. ut the problem with that is -- when politicians they have access to the control of politicians and the corpor e since that time, we've gone back to the same old we had before when

they had it. host: but how would you change the system? well, first thing you said, do like al capone well, that's called the price of doing business. until you can get these control ofsts out of our politicians it's going to continue to get worse. host: that's george from maryland. a few comments from twitter. no, ma'amics agan is taking us to our knees. one are you kidding wages have been stagnant for decades as . jenny from lancaster, ohio is up next. what's it like where you are? caller: i think it's fine. they built a brand new spanking

new school across the street me probably cost about $15 million. and very disability grateful for what i get each month. and my mother is a nurse and she deserves what she gets because school for that. host: especially for your other, has she seen any increase in her wages because there has been talk about a shortage. caller: yeah. she has. detox nurse. seen high has employment. you're starting to see that people are finding jobs now? i think if you want a job you can find a job. jenny from lancaster, ohio. caller: and my daughter is in

she wants to better herself and the only way to do schooling and i'm disability and i'm grateful for what i get. get -- think i should host: jenny from ohio. is victoria from oregon. victoria, go ahead. air.e on the caller: good morning. also.registered nurse have been for 50 years next year. still working and called out of teach.ment to so, i've been represented. that i've worked for now that's the years is all around the l country. we have over 9 million members know our collective negotiatedhas always to at least keep up with inflation and improve benefits. retired and called

back to do teaching, i'm now paying my e union dues and they did negotiate an increase in wages for this year next two years and it's but at least it keeps up with inflation. organization is represented whether it's the janitors or physical therapists, therapists, registered nurses, cn a's, represented around the country. and we have a five star medicare ating and we're one of the top in consumer reports so people identify unions it's a fallacy. host: was your hospital always represented by a union? caller: the organization is

country.he t's in many states and in oregon when it was -- we started representation in '79 and the i worked at opened in '76. receive retirement benefits from your organization? aller: i receive a really decent pension, the old kind. and retiree e healthcare benefits. that ah, but i work for organization my whole career and out comes andient union safety by having members on every committee. in fact the ceo of every area or region or every state has a that works with them. management labor partnership. host: victoria, from oregon. stay tuned for the next segment coming up. we'll talk more about the state labor movement in the u.s. georgia.rom

go ahead, you're on the air. doing, c-span. host: we're doing all right. phoned y'all not .oo long ago minimum wage in this country, raise it don't want to because the senate had that on the floor about 2 or 3 times and way.just said no that's why we're having so much problem. eople aren't making enough money because you see what people are paying rent. got to pay at least 600 to a month. ain't no way they're going to kind of money with minimum wage. host: what do you think the wage? caller: at least $13 an hour. 12 to $13 an hour. you can make it no problem. i know you can. next up is steve from

minneapolis, minnesota. what's your situation? caller: hi. i didn't quite hear that. situation? s your have you seen your wages go up or down? custodian ttk as a public school and i've seen since i've started at year. 30 to $0.40 a host: is that enough do you think? aller: it's maybe not keeping up with inflation but i'm telling you, i've learned from other people who came from the and were getting 3 to $4 an hour than most the private sector. so i mean, i can't complain. out nk there are people there that are hurting. i have no doubts about that but hires we're getting are mostly people who can't speak seem to getwe can't other people in. so i don't know what the story is. from all right, steve,

minneapolis. we have time for just a few more callers. patricia.s go ahead. caller: okay. thank for taking my call. i want to comment. i'm actually retired on social security. security wages of my nt to take $105 wages for medicare which puts me because my house note is almost 90% of that. nd if they take that that leaves me no money for anything else. i think that's terrible. all right. that's patricia. thisre our last caller for segment. stay tuned because up next we'll talk about right to work laws movement in this country. and later on, we'll have a discussion about the self-employed. we'll be talking with someone who runs a self-employment continue on s we this labor day, 2015.

ut first last week housing policy as a hud conference, lynch y general loretta discussed the recent violences around the country. > many shootings we have seen around the country in recent months are all particularly troubling. we have seen violence strike at all segments of our community. sad fact now that no one is safe. we have seen these brutal police killings. we've seen the particularly v l of two shootings virginia reporters killed on air ast year and members of our military targeted in tennessee louisiana and in in june church parishioners in many of our d cities are seeing an increase in violence that we're looking at. this against all of us regardless of what uniform any wear has to end. focused gue has to be

on preventing violent crime as us.touches all of and that is what the justice reduction violence network will address at a summit in detroit later this month. a meeting nvening from law enforcement officers to discuss along with d.o. j.to ives from iscuss these strategies to end this uptick in violent crime and occurring.s from >> he was a nazi. concentration camp come inute tkapbt and responsal for jews.r murder of thousands of >> this sunday night on q & a, er grandfather was a nazi concentration camp come monday the butcher of platforms saw. > he was a tremendously cruel

person, a person who was -- i capable of -- he trained them to tear human aparts. he was a person who -- there was that he felt when he killed people and this is something that when you're don't have this aspect in your personality it's grasp.ult to >> sunday night at 8:00 eastern c-span's q & a. "washington journal" continues. host: and we're joined now on "washington journal" by mark. he's the president of the national right to work legal defense foundation. joined by gary. e's an economic studies senior

fell low at the brookings institution. you so much for being here labor day. what exactly right to work means fosters a better environment. >> 25 states now have them on books and the right to work law say that workers have the participate in unions in way any can. but if right to work states be fired from their jobs for failure to tender fees to a labor union. a worker can be fired for tailor tender fees it a private rganization i.e. labor union host: you're saying they don't specifically ban unions, they more -- make it easier for folks to work outside union. >> the second part of that people can choose whether or not unions.nt to be in labor

eye and nevada, in the workers choice whether or not they want to 81 icipate in the aoupbg whether it's membership or financially. >> why it is better for business? from a standpoint of arguments of right to work, they want to make it between and employees and management and labor. but the bottom line is this is union ment between officials and the workers they claim to represent. want the union security agreement that forces that collective and gives them this reason to say, union veryone's in this collective and therefore we have to charge them fees. topic alley attractive argument but it is really wrong workers and the choices they would like to make. with this u agree

assessment or do you think that unions play a role in protecting rights? >> well i think it's a wonderful term of art to call this right to work. right to work. you have a right to work even in states where people are pay union dues. you have a right to work. from working.ou a better and more artful termite the right to free load off place tributions in a where the union has banned designated representative of at the place of work. there are democratic elections determine whether each place will be covered by a union ollective bargaining agreement and in the right to work states so-called, workers cannot be to pay dues to those unions which greatly weakens the bargaining power of the unions. hy if you can get the benefits

of the collective bargaining representation and you don't have to pay dues. that's the reason that the union movement is much, much weaker. the employer and the union should paye everyone dues to the union that's representing them. movement the union overall seems to be a great deal weaker in america than it has generations.ious we showed that chart earlier. his is from the research center. over the past three decades, the to about half n and in 1983 about 20% of u.s. it a union that compares to just 11% now in 2014. has there been this decline in the number of union members? was probably was 19 fifties when a little over a third of private sector workers members of labor unions.

7% now we're down to about of the private sector is covered y collective bargaining agreement. that decline has been because of in unions inuccess organizing new work places and decline in employment in those industries where unions traditionally were much, much manufacturing. manufacturing used to be and more heavily unionized than other industries important much less part of the employment picture in the united states today. so there's been a decline in the industries that traditionally ave lots of unions and lots of employment growth in the united states has been in right to work states where it's for unions to represent the workers very because they can't compel people who are benefiting rom the representation to pay dues. host: mark. > the idea he oh gary's right

here is this compulsion it doesn't matter whether they're the best or worst. they're on't pay fees fired in states that do not have to work laws.ght about 80% of that have that language. i would suggest this, first of all the idea of benefit, we need o go back and unpack that word and assuming if everyone is, uote, benefited by what the union officials do for them. to assume otherwise is to say exactly equal is and everybody's productivity is the same and everybody's the shop n the -- in floor is the same. that's just not true. we know that. officials , union will not allow us to compensate individuals who perform much others because in most cases union security agreements you had this, if year youre for another get a pay raise for a certain

percentage. time and period of time you spent there. officials maintain and cling to it instead of want enting workers that their representation. gary indicates it is a and there's stem this vote and so if 51% say we the to be in the union brown bound by that vote. in the private sector we very compel someone against their will to join an organization. the ct the video of brookings institute they publish studies and demic yet they don't compel anyone to studies.to read those if they would represent the of ers who want to be part the conversation, the movement the workers f and -- they to voluntary

create this class where people just forced to be here as opposed to willingly and joining and participating in a labor union. host: you can join the discussion as well. call us on the phone lines. we are setting them back up by party 202-748-8000 and 202-748-8001 and 202-748-8002 and social media and us anok.com/c-span or end c-span.org. our first caller is paul. go ahead. what is your question. caller: this is paul. i'm on an international call. i want to talk to him about the

that's talking for the right to work. that the unions won't allow the other people to dues, ay them and when the governor stepped in and got it stopped they wanted to go ahead and pay the 9 million wages and the state topped it because they want people to work for less so the companies make it all. hey've done damn good job of it. you.k >> the volkswagen issue, the state didn't stop it, the a secret ballot election voted against it. they claimed that they had a of workers who supported the union and believe volkswagen management was oing to allow them to unionize

without an election. they came to the legal defense them tion and represented and found unfair labor charge and sroebgz weighing gone as it how this campaign was being conducted. behind a curtain they voted against the united auto workers. the state didn't stop it. the governor may have been involved. he was publicly but the state didn't stop it. workers in the shop that voted against united auto workers. familiar with this case. host: next caller is george from ocala ocala, florida. go ahead. caller: happy labor day. host: happy labor day. caller: the problem i have with trade unions especially and i come from philadelphia, so this large cities, to i don't know about small towns. boy growing up, all of us guys tried desperately

into trade unions and i never found any of one of my who got in without a sponsorship. it was completely tphep 'tis tick. hey talk about unions wanting everyone to become unions but in there unless you had an uncle or brother or in.eone to who got you after vietnam i had a friend of mine who went to every union in city and they laughed at us. we put the application go in and feel it go into the trash can. would like to know how you gentlemen feel about that and if and you're going to tell me i'm will be ll then you telling the truth because that's the way it was in those days anyway. i'm 65 now. i don't know how it is now. completely tphep 'tis tick. thank you so much for your time.

host: we hear you. gary, what do you think? does this relate to the challenges that unions have had f organizing workers in other industries? kind hink the particular of union are craft unions. industrial are in unions. these craft unions did serve ervice a barrier to keep preferred people in and help the relatives. trades e building unions. they're important in some parts philadelphia and was one parts of the country where they were important. it's not the majority. t occurs in manufacturing and transportation and so forth and this is an issue there. intoget crucial role in organizing workers getting to work and training the workers. i also want to ask you

about these numbers are they recently reported on the income of people in right to work states versus states that have a stronger union presence. statesrage worker in with work to write -- rate -- right to work laws -- th -- than peopleke less in states with stronger unions. do you see this being factual at all? guest: i think it is probably the case that wages in states where there are no right to work typically earn about 3% more than workers in the same

industries with the same educational attainment. inhink that is the consensus the literature. specifically, if you're in a labor union, especially if you are a less skilled worker, you typically earn considerably more than less skilled workers in the same industry that do not have unions. it does make sense that right to work laws, by weakening the power of unions to organize do somewhat hurt the wages of typical workers in the state. host: mark mix? there was a recent study by a think tank supporting organized labor, they addressed wages. gary will know this as an economist and distinguished author and writer, if you do the study, you have to adjust for

cost-of-living it when you actually apply an app an apples to apples comparison of wages, we find, and the economics department at george mason , a professor from university of colorado did a study on this, found workers in right to work states had more disposable income. areation and correlations interesting things. the 25 states that do not have a right to work laws all have expenses above the cost of living index. a 25 states are below that. if you just for cost of living, we find that workers are better off by summer between 2500 and $5,000 a year in disposable income. next is liz on the democratic line in new jersey. go ahead. areer: right to work states the right to work for less states. they do have the lowest standards of living.

in the way of health benefits. what we need is to have more of the workforce on labor day sit down and ask themselves, if i am not earning near what i should be earning, how can i improve my own situation and then figure out which to cover, your particular type of industry. with people in your workspace, begin an organization campaign. known will do it for you. tou have to get off your but and start organizing your work life. there are people like here who will keep being well-funded by to ensure there are a right to work states, and they will make it as possible for you to organize. you need to get yourself organized. you are exactly right.

get up andd to organize. if they believe they can improve their situation, they need to invite to come in and speak to them and joined voluntarily. i would suggest in the 20 let's face that have work laws, nothing in the right to work law stops anyone from doing that. get up, take action, organize, talk to workers, that is the way it should work and nothing in a right to work state stops anyone from doing that. guest: the problem is how does the union get negotiating power in those states where they cannot compel everybody who benefits from union representation to contribute towards the cost of that representation? if people cant is get representation for free, they will offload -- often do it.

in the same way i would pay for notetlights -- you will have very many streetlights in the city that has a voluntary contribution. guest: good point. the idea of government, we have given up that. a --ized labor is therefore, this monopoly power would violate the rights of individuals that did not ask for them. you are saying they must apply to them for their own benefit. that is a very nice argument that sounds good from a political standpoint. the problem is how do you pay for a public good?

you can do it through contributions or compulsion. pay the sameave to union dues, but they do not pay anything in right to work states because they voluntarily opt not to contribute to the union and that weakens union negotiating power. host: on twitter -- our next caller is william from florida on the independent line. go ahead. i would like your guests to comment on the elephant in the room, the fact that one main reason union participation has fallen is all the scandals tied to the unions in the late 1970's

and early 1980's. the union leaders, management looted the union pension funds, ran away with the workers money. when it comes down to the bottom line, you still have union , basically against the workers. could your guest comment on all the scandals in the past? a great point about union history and where they are up it when you get confessionals to compel someone to some or it financially, when you have to pay these to keep your job, it provides an environment where union officials can lack accountability, go do these things and make assumptions about what workers do and do not want. they are free to operate because

there is no accountability from a financial side. in right to work states in the 25 states that have those laws, workers can actually withhold financial support. we believe that brings accountability to the work list. i fit one of the reasons you have this history of corruption is we have apply the monopoly power to the union officials and they are no longer answerable to the workers they claim to represent. this argument is really boils down, as i mentioned in the introduction, as union officials argue against workers who, given the choice, would not support them financially. eternal vigilance is the price of liberty. if you want to have an honest union, you have got to turn out for the union officer elections. that is the same as the way state governments work. officials in many

states around the country and many in the federal government. the way the problem is addressed is to toss the rascals out. that is exactly what people have whether or not, you are compelled to pay union dues spared you toss out the bad guys and put in a better -- if you want to elect the officers. host: i want to bring in the story around other ways workers are negotiating for benefits. working with organizers who do , santa fe, new mexico, the story reports that a woman became so fed up, they took an unusual step, forming a committee and not a labor union. they complained about being insulted and humiliated and protested being able to be required to work off the clock and not getting goggles or

gloves to work with. an advocacy group advised squeaky clean's workers -- the national labor relations act under franklin delano roosevelt hibbitts employers to retaliate -- is this the next front in the labor move -- labor union? i do not know the story or the situation. the bottom line is nothing would stop those workers from trying to organize a union. it sounds a they got to the point where they will exercise their rights under the labor set to organize and bargain if you could win the representation. it went to far. they basically said the workers could pay dues or if these if they do not want to participate

in the union. this is what will happen. work is joined together voluntarily. that is how the law would allow them to do the -- do so. host: around raising them -- youing the minimum wage, see around franchisees and how they negotiate with parent companies. are these outside union labor movements going to be more effective in the long run than traditional union membership? guest: the challenge is a lot of political support for legislation on behalf of ordinary workers was led by labor unions. that labor unions are much smaller and part of the isdscape means that part less present here in washington and in state capitals around the country. yes, it is wonderful there are initiatives around the country to boost min wage. there virtually always

successful when a referendum goes on the ballot. but the plain fact is a lot of protections for workers take place behind the scenes in federal committees where legislators, administrators, their feet are put to the fire by union representatives trying on behalf of all other workers and the labor union weakens in the national capital. teresa is our next caller on the republican line. good morning and thank you to c-span. my comment is i totally agree with the unions when it comes to safety for workers. when it comes to wages, i believe there is only one way to get a better wage. take responsibility, get an education, increased ability to command a higher wage. i do not agree with the

government telling me what kind of wage i should get. for the people who stand around and comment and protest the higher wage, that is not how you get a higher wage. you take accountability for yourself and gotten get an education. you command a better wage. 59 years old, that is the only way being a single mother that i ever increased my wage. that is my opinion. thank you. next up is carl from georgia on the independent line. go ahead. you are on the air. caller: hello, this is carl and i have a few comments to put out there which you can discuss after i hang up. youfirst thing i will tell is, not everybody likes everything about union. including members. there is always something you could change. the bottom line is i worked 20 years nonunion and now a

senior's union. i'm way better off in a union. guest goes on to say, you know, if you pay dues, they dues,ing forced to pay but are they also being forced to have more benefits? are they being forced to get more income? a retirement fund? they benefit from those dues. that is exactly why he is attacking those dues. beause a solution might ticket have a split shop where the people who vote in the union can have all the benefits and the people who do not should make $10 an hour. what do you think human nature will do? those people will come across and say, we want that as well. along with a union, your standard of living goes up.

great.ot also you make it, keep a are protected and the jobs are so protected. when they are in the union. but that is not necessarily true. people that slack off and do not come in and do not work, they still get fired. the difference is the better because ark longer union is basically a labor pool. on the job is overcome you go back and get another job. host: all right. what is your response? guest: he lives in a work states of the have a choice whether or not he wants to support a labor union. bottom line, it works for him. your model for setting up a labor policy is exactly the same amount -- model i would ignore spirit union officials who dress members only. if they are doing a great job and getting great benefits for people and providing great service for workers, you are

right that workers will join voluntarily. .oday, workers can be compelled that is a fast and it is the law and union officials are the sole voice in a bargaining union -- unit for those who never wanted them and did not ask for them in the work -- in the first place. it is union officials that jealously protect their monopoly power. they know by forcing everyone into the union is saying we have to represent all these people, that is the contest in which they can say yes, we are forced to pay fees from the stuff. the bottom line is it would work and make unions stronger. to responduld like to a the first caller said, the notion that only individual workers striving hard on their own would have general wage increases. a lot of evidence around the world says that is not true. you can help improve your position either at the workplace where you have collective representation, representing the interest of the majority, and

politically through the by urgingsystem congress or your state legislature to raise the minimum wage and make certain benefits mandatory, to make scheduling more humane. the countries in which that kind of representation is strongest do tend to give a better deal to the least well-off workers. there is no doubt about that. the worst off workers in france and in germany and austria and scandinavia definitely have a better relative's edition than the worst off workers in the united states and part of the reason is the collective action through their unions and the political system to improve the circumstances of the least well off workers. they have a different system of collective bargaining than the united states has. they do not have worked with democracy.

they have organization at a higher level in the labor market. the united states is unique focusing so much on individual work places as the place where representation incurs. guest: i would encourage people to work hard. thing toat is a good do because of course collective action does not always work. sometimes fails. wins,mes, the other party and the party that does not want unions to have collective bargaining power, the party that is opposed to minimum wages, some part -- sometimes that party wins and that is bad for workers. by all means, do the best you can for yourself. but remember collective action is a successful route to improve the circumstances of the least advantaged workers in the society. you do not believe me, go look at statistics on wage distribution and other industrial countries besides the united states. here is another story in the new york times recently. the headline, workers see the

biggest drop in their paycheck. the new york times reports other signs of improving economy, take-home pay for american workers have effectively fallen since recovery began in 2009 according to a new study by an advocacy group scheduled to be released last week. declines were gratis for the lowest paid work is in sectors where the hiring have been strong, and food preparation and retailing, even though wages were already below average to begin with in those industries. i want to hear from both you what you all think the best policies or the most needed policies are for ensuring that americans do see some type of wage growth in the near future #guest: -- future. guest: i would defer to gary. the bookings institute, while the workplace and the economy are proving a little bit, they talk about these low-end wages

and disparities growing between upper-middle-class, the middle middle-class, the lower middle-class or i would defer to gary and then maybe comment on that. i'm not trying to set you up to respond. this is your area of expertise, surely. i think the recent report is correct that since the recovery has gotten going, there have been less wages across the united states. over the last couple of years. perhaps it is driven by increases in the minimum wage and states around the country. bottom end wages have improved a little faster than they have for income workers. it also could be because the labor market is tightening. nonetheless, the basic case is what has been happening to average wages in the united states. average wages have not been improving faster than prices during most of economic recovery. they have been rising at a 2.1% rate. that has translated to increases

of purchasing power in the last year because the price of energy , a declined and consequently 2% raise translates into 2% more purchasing power. but that is not always the case. often times, prices rise a little faster than wages do. during the recovery, there has been very little trend in the real wages earned by u.s. workers. slightly up but it is not very big. host: ohio on the democratic line. go ahead. good morning to you. we can hear you, what is your question? caller: i'm a 30 year union man or a labor union. i've always been proud of it. talk about wages. in 1977, was making $9.50 an hour. today, that is what they start you out anywhere for a job. you want to raise wages and on the other hand, you want to kill unions.

is my comment. i am proud to be a union man. no more corruption in unions than there isn't based on football and anywhere else. in less than a minute, it is hard to get it out. to the best i could. you seen your wage go up at a steady pace since you have been a member of the union -- union?ark caller: caller: yes, for 30 years. i'm working on my own now and i haven't my own job. i do not mind paying my dues and whatnot. worked alongside nonunion people and had a good relationship with them. if wead less money, but had infrastructure, we ain't had infrastructure for 10 years and that would put a lot of construction workers back, trade people, plus right to work people. there is no infrastructure. you have to look at that

seriously. people back lot of to work. guest: he is happy with his union and the union has done a great job with him. so he is a willing member of the union. he is advocating for the type of situation he had. that is the way it should work. others may have had a different experience than he had. policy case, government should not force them into an organization they do not want. jeremiah on the republican line, go ahead. caller: i have been doing some thinking and, i look at unions and the regular private sector jobs,which are low-paying well, the majority of the low-paying jobs are the people actually making some of the products that people like to buy. betweenlem is sometime

the top and the bottom, it's sort of loses out. trump, he built a big power and the first thing he did was he went to a contractor and that contractor went to a subcontractor and sold the contract. that contractor hired a bunch of illegals at five dollars an hour. sometime between the point he started the project to the point he finished the project, all of the money wasn't embezzled and they end up paying people five dollars an hour. host: are you saying the immigration it -- the bigger promise immigration? that is not correct. the problem is people have got their sticky fingers on the money. so instead of building a building that is only about 120 stories, he could have bill the tall this building in the world if they went straight to the

people building it, because all the people with their sticky fingers took all the money and he got stuck with the smaller building. host: all right. is there an issue in terms of the number of subcontractors that might be on any given project and the importance of tracking a project through various employees? there are two questions there and i think the caller was specifically talking about the buildings trades. i think there is evidence that the cost of infrastructure projects and major building projects in the united states, major building projects, is indeed higher than it would be in another country where things are organized to finley in order to build roads, bridges, highways, and major public and private buildings.

do not know, and it is an underresearched area why we pay more for these kinds of roger in the united's and other countries -- than other countries do. this caller, his sense of what is going on might be correct, but i just do not know the details. in general, the contracting out has migrated from construction, where it always has been an important part of to way things get done, ordinary activities in manufacturing. a nissan plant, they have people working on the floor who are employees of nissan, and right beside them are people who work for a contractor instead. and work, by the way, for lower hourly wages, less generation -- less generous benefits, vacation time, and so on. that is an innovation of the last 25 years of u.s. labor market. employers like to employ all of

the people who are doing the work. that -- now they see the advantages of having another firm do the nasty business of paying low wages and firing workers and so forth, when demand for the project goes. that has indeed hurt the well-being of a lot of work is in the united states. guest: the impish usher argument, building highways and bridges is something we recognize the government does. it has been well researched. making laws in the country that set a prevailing wage and a marketplace. it tends to be the union wage. guest: that does not apply to donald trump to the caller was talking about donald trump. i think what he was pointing to is a problem in major construction projects, even

private ones in the united states. the question is why is this a bigger problem in the united states than it is in other industrialized countries get i agree with you with respect to public infrastructure. we have the same problem in our private sector doing major construction projects. the other thing, getting back to the issue of cost and contracting out. i think what has happened is we have such an increasing regime of regulation that employers and capital tend to find ways to work with vince -- within these environments. the more responses you get like contracting, outsourcing, like obama boat -- obamacare. what is an employer do? tries to stay below the employer himself he can protect and his insurance costs. government action changes the behavior of employers and employees here at that is one of the reasons you see this change

in the shifting of contractual employees. employer status designed to get to this again. it is an issue but i think the reason is because the government regulated a most every aspect and if you're going to risk capital and try to invest and create jobs for someone, an individual critic jobs in --ital, trying to get away the more the government regulates, the more they find a way around it. spokea research fellow last tuesday on right to work laws and toss about the effect these laws have. >> to the extent you have a unionization, may be there is more pressure on its members, that, without right to work, basically they contact -- they can tax. that is something michigan members --

if you are from ohio and pennsylvania and many other states, basically, you not they cano switch jobs, say, where are your dues and you have to pay up. in a number of unions, the presidency is passed from father to son. it is more of a dynasty than democratic election. workers can decide that the unions feel more pressure to look for something on the negotiating table. host: we are talking about the state of the labor union. gary, i would like to hear your response.

guest: it seems to me that was a perfectly wonderful, ideological statement here the practical , how do labor unions effectively represent their workers and can they effectively represent them if they cannot get everybody who is benefiting from negotiations with employers? the cost ofe toward representation. the answer is empirically, go to states with right to work laws, and the unions are much less effective and -- in representing workers in those states. we can talk about corruption and i do not disagree. the remedy for that is not to make it higher -- harder for workers to get representation. the remedy is to work -- for workers to toss the rascals out of office, which they are free to do. that is the notion of democracy.

do you want to have representational or not and who do you want to represent your interests, and second, those interests have regular elections and if you do not like those officers, toss them out and replace them with people who are better. host: a response from you and then we will go back to phone calls. a goodthat is theoretical argument about what happens. a practical application is workers and forth these in states in order to just stay, they have to be a member of the union. they have to pay full dues. by paying full dues, they then sign on and allow union officials to use that money for political or ideological causes they oppose fair you have 45% of rank-and-file workers across the country to do something counter what they want to do. the only way is to resign union membership to become a nonmember.

being unable to participate in the union democratic elections gary talked about. you have to sign on and have your own money to support causes you might oppose. you have got to be a member and forw that money to be used those purposes. it is a catch-22 for workers in america. the answer from a practical standpoint is to have union officials represent those workers who want representation, do a great job for those workers, and tracked other workers into the unions because they are providing great benefits. host: next is willie calling from georgia on the democratic line. good morning. what is your thought? i first of all want to thank c-span for bringing this issue to the table today. i heard many callers talk about the labor union. been a union have member for 38 years.

one thing i will say is the young lady called a while ago to say get an education that would help raise your dues. in this country right now, we than we canwyers ever think about. they do not have jobs. and they do school not have jobs. that theory did not work. we have been very outspoken about union membership. we have polls to help our members come in. the guys who am motherships from around the world. proud you have a chance to help those involved in the industry. i do not think the lawyer who

represents the right to work laws, who understands all -- ask ourenhance members to come in. started back in the 1970's. seven dollars an hour. we almost tripled the wages now with union membership. our benefits are great and we are proud we are part of america that moves the cargo from place to place. we take our pride. if you comment from twitter --

gary? guest: unions historically were opposed to immigration in the united states. they were part of the coalition that helps to have our most restrictive immigration laws passed in the 1920's. the last 15 years, they have changed their opinion about immigration because now they see benefits in representing the interests of workers because workers help create the conditions that will determine wages for their own members. they would like to vigorously represent emigrants. this is a situation which, there has been an about-face in the average -- attitudes of labor unions toward workers. you can tell willie is a

power member of the union and believes they're doing great things for him. as gary pointed out, this is an interesting change for organized labor. one thing happening here is there are reckoned file workers were union members are looking at this policy and wondering why these people would support a the -- a go beyond the ability to have a worker fired. they're interesting issues all the same because unions are big and thepolicy here staff that they take, if you are a union member in the steel and you see an immigration program that will bring millions of people into the country, how do you position that versus your job and your job security?

those are serious issues and i think you're getting a debate inside the immigration policy. host: vincent, republican line, good morning to you. now, i own my own union construction company. when i was working out in the field, the union basically picked out members. they just make sure us members pay their dues. sure we'reey make paying $100,000 to them every month for the money they get. to be a better way. we have a labor shortage. there are not enough skilled workers out here.

skilled carpenters in the bay area, it is a dying breed. competitors and i get together and talk about the current labor pool. one of the reasons why is because of pr. people would rather be an over driver -- and uber driver than a construction worker. there has been debate about whether or not over drivers are employees. are either one of you following this story at all? guest: i think california is trying to treat over drivers as though they are employees. not sure in the other 49 states where it i think they are considered contractors. whether it is in the interest of the drivers to be considered

employees or contractors is an open question. some would prefer to be employees and somewhat probably be preferring to be private contractors. the issue i mentioned with the national labors toward redefining the employer status, toapplies more recognizably the franchise business. a local mcdonald's is owned by a franchise owner. for thathe schedule particular franchise. what is happening now is the thatal counsel have ruled mcdonald's corporate in illinois can be held responsible for the process of the franchisee. that is a radical change in the way this particular franchisee situation is. i think it is designed to put pressure on the parent company

to capitulate and drive the program could it will radically change one of those models in america. the idea that the franchisee successs created because they own their own -- businesses. who is responsible, thing that will change dramatically. i think it is the organized labor agenda item from the top -- force thesee franchisees to do what they were not actually do. our last caller for this segment, gavin, go ahead. caller: good morning. comments. i'm union member of 30 years. think goodness for the unions. i have a pension.

i have a health and welfare fund , outstanding health insurance. my point of contention here is, being in illinois, we are surrounded by right to work states. illinois, iowa,, kentucky. these states have a handed -- hidden agenda. have liabilities in the billions of dollars they because they pay are always dipping in. not holding onto the money they had in reserves. is sad thing is this country turning into a service society instead of the manufacturing sector society in the early 1970's. all the manufacturing jobs have

the overseas and we have transpacific partnership agreement, or whatever it is, the new trade agreement, because mexico got too expensive and we went to china. china is too expensive so now we're going to vietnam to make our goods that we buy and pay top dollar for. nothing is manufactured in this country anymore. to leave itl have there to get final thoughts from our guest. gary, we will start with you. i think it has been an unitednt part of the states. let's not kid ourselves, the rise in international trade has

helped. , the more trade we have, the better for them. that not true manufacturing has completely left these shores. we make a lot of cars in the united states, including companies not headquartered in the united states, they make a lot of cars in the country. still a lot of manufacturing here. it is an important industry. the basic problem in the long run for union representation has in workers are not signing on the dotted line and are not voting for union representation here that has reduced the number of workers represented a unions. reducedturn has clinical influence. lessare a smaller and important part than they were 50 years ago. that affects the influence in washington and in state capitals of issues that are centrally important to average and below

average pay workers. guest: i agree on a manufacturing base. we're seeing service and down.cturing costs going the two states that led the nation in jobs growth, the two newest right to work laws, wisconsin passed at this year, but overall, i would say the problem with organized labor is it is off-site. if they get out of the business of forcing people to do things as opposed to convincing people to do things, think the recipe for organized labor is positive going forward. there is a place for unions and there will be, but there is no place for compulsion in that relationship. host: mark mix and gary burtless , thank you for joining us. next up, we will continue our discussion about america's workforce with a look at the

self-employed in this country. we will later speak with the president and ceo of the chamber of commerce and he was -- talk about businesses. we will be right back. ♪ [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015] ♪ >> he was a not see. -- nazi. and he was responsible for the murder of thousands of juice. night, teege. >> he was a tremendously cruel

person, a person who, yes, i dogs and he two trained them to tear humans apart. i think this sums it up really good. he was a person who, there was a when he that he felt killed people. this is something when you are normal and you do not have this this aspect.y, -- "washington journal" continues. , is: our guest, keith hall

here. can you start by giving us an overview of the landscape? ?ho are the self-employed guest: it is a good point to think about the overall demographics of who are -- it is one of the most unique factors that self-employed people have -- business owners were typically men. today, it is roughly half and half. there are many women business owners as there are men. race, gender, age, all factors. everyone seems to be at least choosing a fraternity without for self-employed people. in the segment before, we talked andt about manufacturing overseas and the problems we're , as technology

increases, i think there will be more and more opportunities for self-employed people, whether there are -- those are service , real estate agents, there are over 27 million self-employed business owners in the country today. all of those race somewhat the same problems. historically, the top three issues we hear from our members country, to avenue factory, a new worker, access to formal health care. we talk about that a lot these days. one thing we all have in common, that is tax issues. all the new self-employed people face all of those issues. perhaps the overriding issue is one of time. self-employed business owner is the chief executive officer, the chief financial and marketing officers. they clean up the night. they have to do everything. having the resources to help

with time is perhaps the biggest problem they face today. mentionedh hall, you the self-employed are employed across demographic groups. can you describe what self-employed means? if someone is celfin lloyd but aso maybe has a job at traditional company, with a be counted as self-employed? if they own their own business, are they self-employed? how do you define the group for this? from a tax standpoint, it might be the easiest way to describe it. a self-employed person, who are treated as an independent contractor by their clients, and earlier segment come we talked about the definition of leave versus independent contractor self-employed business

owner is one treated as independent contractor. there are many people out there is have another job. perhaps they have a regular w-2 employee job. also have their passion or the new idea, the thing they hope that will take care of their family into the future. maybe they are starting on the side. people are also considered self-employed business owners and face some of the same problems. what proportion of the american workers are self-employed? guest: there are about 27 million self-employed business owners. talk about numbers. the irs for 2014 will process about 150 million tax returns. about 27 million of those will that aat tax form self-employed business owner has to include with the tax return. that is roughly one out of every six americans is a self-employed business owner. store andthe grocery a movie theater, look around

you. one out of every six people owns their own business. it is a big demographic. host: we're opening up our phone lines and we will have it differently. if you are self-employed, we want to hear about you. tell us about your experiences and what it is like. (202)hers, you can call 737-0001. you can leave us a comment on face book. you can send us an e-mail. ,e're talking with keith hall the president and ceo of the national association for the celfin void. thee major challenges for self-employed, including access to capital, health care, and taxes. take each of these one by one. what are the challenges you remember in terms of capital? guest: i think many small business owners work out of their home. many start in their home.

perhaps they have a new idea pyramid he self-employed business owners are what we call necessity entrepreneurs. and did not wake up one day have a great idea or a passion for the small business. perhaps the place they worked went through technology upgrades and downsized their position. perhaps they found themselves one day in small business when i did not really intend to. maybe now is the time they pursued that passionate they have always had. maybe they need to borrow some money to get office space. computer equipment, or an idea for a small restaurant. where do they go to provide funding for the new idea? line ofhis is is have a credit here the bankers like to work with big businesses. many self-employed business owners do not have the infrastructure to go to traditional lending forces. the small business association has opportunities for some type of guaranteed and secure financing, an option for many

businesses who have infrastructure investments like the restaurant we talked about. the smaller investment for the office space, to help with new employee, is very difficult for them to find options for financing. many of them bore a money against their home. do it through their credit card, which can be very expensive. new technology issues have sprung up to address this. perhaps they refer to those escrow funding. host: kickstarter, gofundme, etc. guest: exactly. one of the things i am most proud of, if there is a problem out there, there will be a self and put individual who will find a solution to that. let's talk about health care. has therefore will care act changed the equation for people who might be considering self-employment? guest: it is a big issue. aca, they hade

difficulty finding health insurance. lots of times, they were singled out for rate increases or canceled if they had a big claim. it is difficult for the employee to address the issue. one of the cornerstones of the was excluding small employers, those with 50 employees or less, from any of the penalties or mandates that came under the aca, excluded some of those small businesses. for thevery important self-employed. one of the things we're fighting diligently for indies he today is the application of reimbursement arrangement. consequence is a small business owner who wants to help employees by contributing a little bit. maybe small business cannot afford an aca compliant health insurance plan.

they wanted to help a little with some amounts per month. that 105 plan, as they are called, has been restricted to only those with less than two employees. that basically means one. we have a bill proposed right that planwould bring under the typical 49 exemption to having that ability gives self employee a little more flexibility in helping their employees with an affordable aspect. that is very important. on behalf of someone who is self-employed, gerald from florida. what is it like being self-employed? caller: it is actually better than working for a company. i work in the i.t. industry. working for a company doing what i do now, i might make $11 to

$20 an hour. makeng for myself, i can $35 per hour plus. a lot of my family members are self-employed that own their own businesses. -- great great some amounts of money doing that. there should be more emphasis on the self-employed. for instance, me. i chose a field of study where i would have leeway being self-employed, like the certifications i have. think there is not as much emphasis like on trade certifications, i have a microsoft certification recognized anywhere in the world i go. want to move to france. i can take that with me and that versus just getting a certain trade study here in america. like i said, i got a

grant myself to be able to go to school for my field of study. host: all right. caller: good morning. i have been self-employed most of my life with different types of jobs. right now, i'm in the vending business. what i sell is all in my goods. i do not deal with foreign goods are at got my products and countries around the world. are only in america. i make some of the some people down in louisiana make the others. they are vending machines. dispensingom machines. i encourage you to hurry i do not want to retire. i enjoyed get our world to see who wants to talk to make around the world. host: that was tired from

colorado. any thoughts? is a highse callers passion for self-employed. individuals who have cried, ideas, creativity. there is a small business american that is ready to satisfy that need. taking up each day knowing that you are there to answer a question to satisfy a need, to provide that insight whether it is i.t., or providing vending services, products, that is what self-employed america is all about. that is what my passion for the self-employed is all about. you can see it on my face. when i hear about people who are product what they do -- that goes back to the foundation, and i'm getting a little sappy but that is what the country is based on. that is what we are here for and it makes me very proud.

, it shows thell earnings of those who are self-employed and incorporated are higher than those who are employees of someone else's company. here's the chart. at every level of education, those who are self-employed and incorporated earn more than those who are traditional workers. however, the chart also shows that those who are self-employed but unincorporated learned last and employees at somebody else's company. can you tell us the difference between someone it was self-employed incorporated and unincorporated? guest: i think from a passion standpoint, we just had the two callers, or the operate at an operation -- corporation or with self proprietorship, there is no difference. i think self-employed people who are spending so much time with the compliance issues, and i will get on another soapbox, that self-employed business owner, at least the typical

profile like a mentioned before, , ane typically have a cpa accountant or attorney on staff. most of their compliance issues of the paperwork that they have to go through to file just their tax returns, for example, can be very onerous. you know how the irs is requiring the paperwork reduction act, it requires virus puts on each of their forms the number of hours the are expected to complete the form. the typical self employed business owner spends over 120 hours just i dealing with their tax forms. three, 40 hour weeks. that is roughly 6% of their year. if we could find a way to cut that compliance time in half, we ofl have just freed up 3% the year of each of those self-employed business owners. 3% may not sound like very much, but next time we happen economist on the show, let's ask

them what 3% growth in our economy would mean. when you think about the difference in earnings from a corporate entity versus the self-employed entity, in my opinion, a lot of that still comes back to the focus of time. if we could find a way to simplify their compliance issues so that they could spend that extra three weeks on getting one for customer, on managing their cash flow a little better, i think that is one way you would see an increase in earnings for self-employed business owners. host: so you are saying being incorporated and unincorporated is a distinction without a difference -- in other words, either certain types of self-employed workers who are incorporated versus those who are not and what does it mean to be incorporated? guest: i think there are two main reasons. there are bunch of different reasons, but two main reasons. owner mightness

choose to be unincorporated is funding. they are raising capital and they want to sell a piece of their business or have other partners that want to invest in their business, perhaps they do not provide services to that business but they want to be an investor, it is very easy to sell stock in the corporate form of entity, so it is a great way to share the ownership. if some of those small businesses cope to take their small enterprise public one day, operating as a corporation is the way to do that. the second major region -- reason is trying to provide some liability protection. if they are in an industry that has hired the normal liability concerns, for example, maybe they are a manufacturing-type of entity and they want to be a corporate form of entity to provide some type of liability protection. view of things, a small business owner that is providing services, that is building those rocking chairs for their customers, there is no great benefit to being incorporated versus the self-employed. i think the longer of an entity that has connected strategy that

might be selling their business, those might choose to be a corporate form of entity. those it that are going to do what they are doing hopefully for career like a vending salesman, he is 72 and he will do that forever, that person is probably going to be self-employed as a sole proprietor for the length of their career. host: next up is michael from greensboro, north carolina. what is your experience? caller: good morning. i drive for a truck and bus company but the problem i am saying is that when i got the truck, i can only have a 14 hour window to work off of. when i drive the bus, i can be on duty 20 plus hours and i have added trip where i have worked 42 hours out of 50 hours, yet, they think that it is ok for me to be able to work these hours. to me, the trucking industry has really hurt me because these owners and operators do not want to stay out there driving

because you have a 14 hour window to work off of. down the roadhour and your vote is not ready and you sit there for five hours, that is five hours you have boston pay. i would like to know, how can you solve that problem? commentso, there is a on this broader thought that we were discussing in the last segment which is -- who actually is an employee of a company these days and is that notion being notified? guest: i think there will be an ongoing issue. historically, we view the independent contractor versus factors.based aquifer there was behavioral control, financial control, relationship control, so you could go through this questionnaire about who actually controls what gets done, how it gets done, when it gets done. if the company is controlling that, then the relationship is usually an employee relationship. if the individual is controlling those work product cap factors,

then they're probably an independent contractor. the department of labor has racially -- has recently issued that guidance moving toward economic realities of issues. who is dependent upon this job? theexample, michael, if worker is fully dependent on an individual client, if the client is telling them how many hours they can drive, where they can drive, what they can do, the more limits from an economic fairness standpoint that are ,laced on the job i the company then the more likely that relationship is an employee relationship. the more that the employee, the worker controls those types of factors, so if the worker is the one deciding where they drive, how often they drive, help option they need dressed between individual operations, then they are going to -- how often they need rest between individual operators, then they tend to be an individual contractor. all of them come into play, but

to michael specific question, what can we do to make a difference on some of those regulations? the most important thing to do, michael, is make sure you stay connected. let your congressional leaders know that this is an issue. let them know that you have a concern in your particular area. at the end of the day, our congressional representatives work at the state level and at the federal level. a are the ones that can make a difference in this situation. so make sure you let them know your thoughts because that is how we can make a difference. ist: tom from pennsylvania the next. good morning. what is your question or comment? caller: good morning. i would just like to remind mr. hall of a few things he has not mentioned. the advantages over the small -- one example, let's see two people work 100 miles from their home. y goesall business gu

to do business 100 miles away and gets $.55 a mile. ismay be 55 point five, that what the irs allows him to take office taxes. the employee travels the same 100 miles because that is where the jobs are. you cannot take one penny for all the gassy burns or anything else, said the business person comes back with $55 in his pocket and end of the year and employee gets nothing. there are also tax breaks for old equipment he buys, tax breaks for office use and everything else. that is the night all other people who work for a living and acting that is unfair and i will take my answer off the air. host: your thoughts? guest: absolutely true. if you want somebody to talk about passion for self employees, i am the guy because i totally agree with you. there certainly pros and cons to make it spend an entire week on shows going through the difference and math for being self-employed or being an employee. there are pros and cons.

the most important factor for being self-employed, for me, is that control factor. you are out there doing your best to meet a need. you have been created, you have an idea, you developed your own business that you are in control of and you are creating jobs. you may not know this, but over 70% of all new jobs that are created in this country come from small business owners. that is where the economic growth is coming from because the creative ideas, waking up on monday morning, knowing that it is up to you to make your business successful, that is what separates the typical employee worker from the self-employed business owner. yes, that mileage factor is totally true. i've got another great idea for you. if you got a child in your business under 18 years of age, created job in your business for your child. put them to work. not only will they know more about your business, they will know about self-respect, work ethic, they will learn a lot about their lives which are also

going to be able to deduct the wages that you pay for your kids. taxe are lots of creative saving ideas for the self-employed business owner not be available to the employee. likewise, their detriment to be self-employed. we talked about the aca and health insurance. the self-employed business owner is not able to deduct their health insurance in the same do,er that they businesses so in effect, the self-employed business owner pays 15.3% higher for their health insurance premiums then big business do. just because i am not fully deductible, so there are pros and there are on. i hate getting down to just the tax differences, a versus b, because the true benefit of eating self-employed is that control and knowing that you are making a difference every day. that is where my passion comes from. host: that debate of the pros

and cons is active on twitter. on our twitter handle, c-span wj, this person that, he came a contracted employee two years ago when had to leave a job for health reasons. from to leave -- working home, great, extra taxes, not so much. another person says it is tough but more rewarding than working in another spaces, especially given the problems faced by labor. our next call is from florida. john, how are you do this morning? caller: good. good morning. we used to call it small business owners and i guess you're making it synonymous with self-employed. when i think of self-employed person, i think of a single individual. it could be a small business person that is the only employee . the trouble that i am seeing is getsi have a daughter these jobs with small business owners and they treat her as an independent contractor. you touched on this earlier. they give her a 1099 at the end

of the year, and she has to come up with social security, full medicare, and figure out her taxes at the end of the year, too. i do not know. is this a new trend? or has it just been going on for a long time? where small business people have been treating their employees as independent contractors. what can the a person do about it? host: keith hall? guest: john, that is a good point and i think that is why you hear as much discussion the definition of independent contractor. we talked a little bit about how they're and being treated versus employees. to me that is totally different than a young person, perhaps just in the summer providing business,o a small that individual and most circumstances, regardless of whether you use the old method of control, and talked about behavior control, relationship control, financial control, or you use the new standard that

the department of labor looks into which is an economic reality situation. are they depended in the company on evaluating that work process? scenarios, ine most circumstances, are going to yield the answer of an employee employer relationship with that in person. i think the intent of the that control factor that most independent contractors would prefer to be, the profile of that self employed business owner, wanting to know they are in control of their destiny, those really do not apply to young people. what i try to promote in the seminars that we do across the in answering this particular issue is communication. make sure you communicate with your workers if you are in the company situation. or if you are a young person, make sure you communicate that you understand the relationship.

that is a lot to ask a 16-year-old, 17-year-old youth to understand, but going into the process, john, if you talk to your daughter, make sure she indicates that the company that she would rather be classified as an employee. it is typically not a matter of .hoice from a practical standpoint, it is easier for the company to treat workers as independent because thejust record-keeping is easier. all the have to do is fill out the 1099 at the end of the year ,ather than fill out the w-2 withhold taxes for federal income taxes, withhold taxes for fica, medicare, like you mentioned. i guess the copout for some of those small companies is to treat them as independent contractors. i would encourage you to indicate that to the youth of america, to your daughter in particular, that when she visits with that particular employee, the fact that she understands

the situation will make everything better at the end of the day. we talked about on the truck driver earlier, the thing we can all do is make sure that we communicate with our legislative representatives are concerns because many of these issues can be resolved in communication from the department of labor, from the department of treasury. the more information we can give them to help them make decisions, the better decisions we can likely expect. host: our next caller's self-employed, john from maryland. good morning. my name is john. i am self-employed, but my point is how evil best government is toward the cost of the biscuit in this country. entrepreneurism is what makes this country run. nos academia government has

clue. i will give you an example. i can go out here and toss 2000 other way. working $5,000 a year to $15,000 a year, all these regulations, all this paperwork. i got rid of my employees and i got adventure and got back in the truck. it means to the public, because i don't have to pay these outrageous fees to the government and the state who have no clue, but i get to sell for one third less. that means a lot of people will not have a thousand dollars for an air-conditioned, but i can put it in for $5,000 because i do not mind getting my hands 30 and i will do a 1099 but some people. they used to be that i could go down the street to the kid or the guy who gets out of prison or something, i could get him a and let him broom

sleep and he would eventually be able to feed his family if that is what he wanted. a little insurance, but my point is, all of that has been wiped out, ok? it seems like the whole environment and public is against the business plan, the man creating jobs. host: that is john from maryland. another suggestion for ways to help those who are self-employed concert "the new york times" by an op-ed by sarah haaretz. she says freelancing is becoming the new normal in america. there are now 53 million freelance workers nationwide according to a study. these workers include 30% of millennials --

host: it goes on to argue that in response, we should develop a new system of portable benefits that affects the realities of episodic income, specifically pre-lances should be allowed to put away pretax income and share accounts where clients with also make contributions based on the number of hours worked. we are talking with keith hall, the president and ceo of the national association for the self-employed. if you like to comment on this topic or other issues, you can die less -- you can call us. if you're self-employed, (202)-784-8000. all others, (202)-784-8001. you can also send us the tweet and on facebook. you can also send us an e-mail journal@c-span.org.

what do you think of this? guest: i think that growth in self-employment and the growth of the idea of being self-employed, i have known that for a long time, so hopefully the rest of the country is haveing up to those who been self-employed for a while, but the concept of the numbers that you quoted in that piece, that's amazing. is exactly the trend. it is my opinion that a lot of the trend is dictated by technology. as the world becomes smaller and as you can stay connected easier, we do not need to drag to the big cities. we can work from home. many of those opportunities and working from home, back to the independent contractor, will provide the independent contractor relationships. having our benefits, whether it is health care, retirement benefits, all of those things tied to us as individuals makes more sense in matching that trend for self-employment. on to state that

in many of the people who are self-employed, they are self-employed by choice versus people self-employed out of necessity. we have heard a lot about the economy, where do see the split falling? our most people doing this out of desire or necessity? guest: i think it is both. there are a number of people who become self-employed out of necessity because they wake up one day and they have been downsized. the company has moved or gone away. technology has provided growth and a lot of industries, but then a follow-up in other industries. a lot of those individuals perhaps wake up on that random monday without their regular employee job. they may go through the headhunter process. they may go to the website and the point of their job and they find it difficult in finding that job. what they do in the meantime is they provide consulting services because they still have to make the house payment.

in many cases, that consulting engagement that they have this with the company they just left because the company is still trying to provide services to their clients and they don't have employees anymore. of those become necessity entrepreneurs, but as they become more successful, they grow into self-employment. their network of relationships see what has happened. they see the improvement in their bikes down, their attitudes, their passion. they see some of those things becoming better for them and that makes them want to be self-employed. perhaps that first person becomes a necessity entrepreneurs but then their network of relationships, some of those are going to choose that passion. now we've got growth in both areas. as this health employed marketplace continues to grow, i think you're going to see influence from both of those. end. let's get a few more steve from pennsylvania is next. steve, you are self-employed. how's that working out for you? caller: pretty good so far.

i actually started a nonprofit organization this year and it helps with addiction in the community. so far, it reached out to a lot of people in the community. i got a ton of support. i guess for high question was, we've been living in a democratic society for the last eight years and seems it is geared toward helping people start small business and stuff, if the next election comes around, go to a republican, do you think that support will decrease of go away? keith hall i think that? is up to us. for me, this presidential election that we are about to face guest: maybe the most exciting one that i can remember. i think there are two reasons. most people, and i do not think this is usually the case, i think most people do not hope -- do not know who they will vote for today. i think that adds more andrtance to the states

primaries, what are you a link to the right or left, i think we have opportunity to influence who we are going to elect. i think we who are self-employed, if we make our throughnown, and i know our membership, the people i visit with, the self-employed people out there are listening. i challenge to the candidates on both sides are, it is time to listen to the self-employed people because as self-employed americans, we have not voted as a blocked in the past, but as these issues continue to grow and as the self-employed marketplace continues to grow, the self-employed people will vote with the issues that are important to self-employed. as we move toward the election next year, i think we, self-employed business owners, can make a difference. i know we are listening. my challenge is that if self-employed people are listening, my challenge to the self-employed is that those candidates know that you are self-employed and that the

issues related to fairness in the tax code, fairness and applying the affordable care act , dennis in applying that independent contractor definition status -- all of those things are important and that you will be voting as a self-employed business owner. i think that is critical. call, robert from louisiana calling on the self-employed line. go ahead. ma'am. yes, i am a self-employed roofing and construction contractor in louisiana. anyway, bobby jindal, the one who was running for president of the united states, has just about put me under. i've been in business since 1982 , anyway, since katrina hit, rita, and gustav, he has got a -- building in baton rouge anyway, louisiana workmen's comp. and all that stuff.

years ago, you did not have -- all you had to have was a liability policy, no workmen's work. and you could now, you've got to have workers comp and liability insurance which the state of mississippi, texas, oklahoma, arkansas know that you do. i am a small corporation, and the last time i went to take out liability insurance and worker's comp., it cost me like $40,000 which was fine. last time i went to take it out, $12,00011,000 or without even a storm hitting. that just about put me out of business. host: we hear your thoughts. keith hall, your thoughts? guest: those are good issues. i know those are always uncomfortable. we just passed the 10th anniversary of katrina. still thinking about the families with all the lost and

we are trying to recover from emotionally but financially. all of those things will come into play. the think i would leave you with as a self-employed business owner, we are the backbone of this country. whether we have to face higher worker comp premiums, or that we have to face more difficult definitions of independent contractor, all of those compliance issues that we talked over, we still will create 70% of the jobs in this country. i would encourage you, if you are a self employed business owner, stay connected. there are resources available for you. bookmark our website. iris.gov is a great website, yourconnected and let congressional leaders now that self-employed people should be considered we demand to be considered and we are here to make a difference. let your voice be now and stay

connected. host: keith hall, president and associationnational for the self-employed. we will continue with a focus on the economy and will be talking with harry alford, the head of the national black chamber of commerce and talking about minority owned businesses. we will be right back. ♪ tonight on "the communicators have her c-span stop by several technology fairs and spoke with communicate -- entrepreneurs and researchers on the future of consumer technology. >> what we are building is what we call the data dashboards and we wanted to create this one-stop shop with a lot of important data about agriculture and production in the united states. a lot of these already exist within the government but in a different world than kind of the

online. we wanted to bring that together and make it easy for anybody from the interested public to a busy, small farmer. on the way to engineers and production developers to access the data and start using them in ways that would be powerful for them. in theidea is that future that topical be intelligent and not receive the data we send it. if i am stressed out, i can actually suit me with heat, vibrations, other things i wanted to do. i will turn it on and hopefully it will turn on. module, of these is the so it provides vibration or heat. >> what are we looking at here when we see these little modules? >> these are little micro processors that these actuators to vibrate. some of ourly have suppliers to give folks a taste of who we are and what we do in the top of suppliers that can

sign on. one of our suppliers is a company called eyepatch. the have an interesting story. a person out of new york who was a journalist and he had an idea for a product. he found aly.com, had his product created and is selling on alibaba.com. it can come to our platform, find manufacturers, get your idea created and eventually become a supplier on the platform and for your product back to others. there is still a long way to go. you hear debates about robots taking over the world and becoming more intelligent than humans and so on. from assigned to his perspective, i would say that is an optimistic perspective. i wish we were that smart. we are far away from that, but we are making headway. in the recent years, there has been a confluence of technologies enabling us to help robots that are smarter, far

away from the smarts of human beings, but smart enough to perform task on their own. >> watch "the communicators" tonight on c-span2. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are joined by harry alford, the president and ceo of the national black chamber of commerce. ui for being with us. guest: ui for having us on this holiday morning. host: can you start by telling us a little bit about the state of lack owned businesses in america. how many are there and how are they fairly? 1993, when we started in according to the u.s. census bureau, there were 1230 $3 billion in sales. today, i'm happy to report that there are 2.5 million black owned businesses doing about 800 billion in sales. the good side is the growth continues. it was growing up 10% per year and in has slowed to 5% per

year. i think that is based on some government policies and regulations and a slow recovery from the recession. but we are growing. that did you find black-owned businesses were hurt disproportionately during the great recession or how did they make out? gets a cold,merica we get pneumonia. resources are less, the dodd kind of a knee-jerk reaction to the scandals and the , that reallyndals kind of cash. that kind of cash flow for our members and we had to find creative ways to get capital access. in this still a problem. the sba lending is almost nonexistent for black business now. they won't even give us the report and what they're doing, they are so ashamed, so we are trying to find other ways. we are getting pretty creative. host: what types of industries do you find that black-owned businesses tend to be clustered in, if any?

guest: technology, engineering, construction. manufacturing, light manufacturing. in a map -- international trade is what we are on because there are one billion customers and africa. they have little electricity and we come in to provide electricity and create jobs. we are opening up a new frontier. has opened arms to us. south america, we opened two new chapters in columbia and costa rica last year. columbia is a dynamite chapter. they have tons of business is kicking off, so we had tons of things. 135 million black people in south america.net really communicated to the people of the united states, and we are changing that. host: what are some of the most important factors that you help that in place to ensure that there is faster and more growth for them in the future? guest: we are citing adverse regulation. there are some environmental laws coming to be that really

would shut down small business. they want to kill coal, they want to not import or export they want to decrease our volume of oil and gasoline. they don't want to keep doing pipelines which opens doors to many small businesses of all colors and ethnicities. we need to fight and we are fighting. we go up there on capitol hill and we get on the stop and we put a pretty good fight. we usually get our way in the end. host: we wanted to let you know that you can join the conversation as well and tell us about your experience or if you're a democrat, call us -- (202)-784-8000. republicans -- (202)-784-8001. .ndependent -- (202)-748-8002 we are opening up a special ,hone line at -- (202)-748-8003 if you are a minority business

owner. you can also send us a tweet on twitter and they spoke. -- and facebook. you can send us an e-mail at journal@c-span.org. we are talking to keith hall --harry alford. host: some of the issues you mentioned earlier as important for driving growth to black owned businesses as the keystone pipeline, those are issues that the congress is focused on, is there something specific to black-owned businesses, specific supports of you feel they need that are different than other businesses? guest: not really. scale.ust the all businesses need cash. fortunately for larger corporations, they find cash. the bank provides funding for international work. they have never, to my understanding, made a loan to a black-owned business, ever. they are up against a wall and

they may not get authorized and they want us to support it. show me a black business that has gotten a loan from the bank and i will support it. host: you guys stayed out of the fight. guest: yes. and the u.s. chamber was strong with it. i'm on the board of the u.s. chamber of commerce. there has been no benefit to us. the big boys who can rock 'n roll with that, but the small guys are on the outside looking in. host: what are the challenges to black-owned businesses in terms of accessing the capital and what are some of the creative ways that they are finding to find ways to invest in their business? guest: we have found philanthropists in europe who want to develop africa. we can provide them with businesses who can build infrastructure. we can put dance in place, we can build -- you can put dams in place, we can build solar,

waterworks, and we are going to with these philanthropists and europe. i've got a big meeting to go to in paris, i'm hooking it up, i'm also on the board of the pan african chamber of commerce and industry. there are 34 nations in africa and i will represent them. and america, in doing that. we are working with a visa -5 is a special program to release an american visa. if you can put up clean money up approved and you can put 500 thousand dollars toward infrastructure jobs in the united states, we can get this special visa for your kids and they can go to harvard, yale, and our san francisco chapter investing in the summer to go development. we are going to go to shanghai

and have a chapter there and start encouraging more of that. that is really great toward capital. wheregot another trip there is another trip going somewhere -- oh, yeah -- going to the pan african chamber of commerce in november. we're going to close a deal on the french peace and also identify what countries are ready, non-corrupt, and trustworthy, so we will begin to for projects. host: let's bring in the caller. from california. on the independent line. good morning. go ahead. caller: good morning. i am also a small business owner and as i am listening to this gentleman talk, it just seems like we are in the same situation. just drowning in regulations and

the gentleman before talked that all the paperwork companies are spending so much money on hr and all this stuff that everybody is drowning in. i was just wondering if the black chamber of commerce, if we can just join as american workers who are trying to improve the lives of everybody? i have .546 people, a couple -- people, five or six couple are hispanic, and i was wondering as americans, not black, white, or minority, all of us have a way to band together to let our leaders know that we as a country to offer opportunity to everybody that we possibly can according to our communities and based on who lives there. yes, ma'am. we form a lot of coalitions. with the national association of

manufacturers and u.s. hispanic chamber of commerce. i've already said we worked with the u.s. chamber of commerce. the court chambers, cities, and states, we do back together. we do have our special needs and we can all work together towards a goal of creating business and making america strong. all you have to do is go to lbcc.org and send us a message or an inquiry. host: harry alford, i want to talk to about regulations. you have been very vocal about criticizing president obama's and in "theplan hill," he wrote a organization did a study that found that the single regulation to cut carbon dioxide emissions by 30% over the next 15 years will cost northward of $450 billion fully implemented and they will be reflected in higher electricity,

natural gas bills and you say that is particularly bad news for black and hispanic families. guest: it is a job killer and poverty promoter. it would of estate african-american and hispanic communities, or any communities of lower means. it is an impossible dream they are asking. they want to kill coal. they do not want to import or expert natural gas. they want to reduce consumption of oil and gasoline while not trying to build the country and increase consumption to process growth. antibusiness is what it is. antibusiness is anti-jobs and i'm very passionate about it. it will be over my dead body, it will. host: why are black and hispanic families in particular can't? guest: lesser means, fewer dollars. if you increase it by 30%, that's a hard thing to beat. if you only have one dollar and going from $.30 to $.60, what are you going to eat on? what do you travel with?

how do you pay rent? host: there are some organizations that disagree with you and think progress there is very strong. how the national black commerce 's ludicrous comment african americans and they cite a study by the naacp that found that many who were black american burning areasoal and suffer from the pollution they face. the report found that six lane americans when your call, 30 9% were people of color and the that coalident said pollution is literally killing those communities. you do not have to be in poverty, you do not have to live next to a coal plant. you can have job creation. you can start your own business, you can get yourself and put

yourself from the bootstraps and move out to a nice neighborhood. you attract buyer coal mine and by clinging to this anti-energy peace, you are going to poverty forever. people, possession of colored people, that's a civil rights organization. we are a business organization and we are under the model of booker t. washington. naacp is under wb devoid. -- devoid. we believe government should help people. and dould put herself up business with one another. that is how we survive in america and he will thrive. from tampa,s irena florida. she works for a minority business or an owner. go ahead. i there? -- are you there? you are, great. turn down your tv. go ahead. calling to find

out -- are you willing to work threehe people that have or less employees and helping them to find -- financing and he was to go into trading in the caribbean and africa? guest: absolutely, ma'am. we have 13 chapters in the caribbean. we work with the caricom and we son invested -- in fact, my works for an angel investor, we have people interested in promoting business and making a little money, too. host: this, term to do, can you ask, don't how black-owned businesses and minority businesses have benefited from affirmative action contract awarding? guest: not much. from a heckuva lot. affirmative action, heckuva lot. i played football.

i graduated from the university from affirmative action and increased my skill sets it to her i could go into business and work. as far as contracting goes, there is no advantage, especially under this administration for black to do business. you got to gut it out and fight for it. aside part foret businesses? guest: no, ma'am. forstevens put something in "alaska corporations" but they are really long haired, blue-eyed multibillion-dollar fromnies who can set aside federal government. there is an end a program that targets minority businesses. the fightmentioned with the bank and one place we got split with the national chamber of commerce in terms of taking on an issue. where do you stand on minimum

wage? has been debate on raising it to $15 an hour to help people in lower income communities. guest: i believe it should be with the market. you do not set your profits -- i'm going to make this amount of money, therefore, i'm going to pay better wages. you price where it goes. if you are successful, you pay employees more and you will get the best employees. if you do not pay them more or pay them what they are worth, you will lose them and that is how the market works. you cannot dig take profit and loss -- you cannot dictate profit and loss. host: john is next from virginia. he is an minority business owner. go ahead. caller: good morning. john of theis dr. national black pharmacists association. i just wanted you to talk a little bit about the need for trade between african-american

farmers and how we can work together to help feed the world of the -- and what some needs are of african nations and other countries around the world? guest: africa has the most fertile land in the world, but only 17% of africa has electricity, has indication. -- has irrigation. this is where -- we have fine engineers and five construction companies -- they going to africa with funding varies sources from around the world and they put in infrastructure where these kids can have three meals a day and have an economy like over here. hold ready and we need to elected officials accountable which is a problem in africa, but also transparency. i think we will grow. host: where in africa d.c. the most potential for investing, in particular from black-owned businesses? guest: it is kind of sad that

the worst place in africa is the congo. -- theres the congo in is a saying that says he who controls -- patrols the congo, controls the world. he has the best farmland, and it is going to since -- and it is equidistant around the world. south africa is actually a first world country sitting on a third world continent, so there are many places to go and to start. agriculturem and the main sort of industry you guys are looking at? we want africa to feed itself. all they need is a little water otherigate and keep entities out of the way. secretary john kerry went over there and said, you are going to blow up your carbon footprint. they have been in poverty for centuries and for him to say, do not grow too fast, you will

explode your carbon footprint -- no, no. host: there is an argument when you look at some of the factory towns in china will pollution -- guest: china is the worst. china builds a new coal mine every week. host: how do you prevent parts of africa from becoming like china in terms of pollution> ? guest: they have a sensitivity unlike china. they have a very big concern. we want this and we want to keep it clean for our people. host: next on the phone lines on theryland is ron republican line. caller: good morning. i have been listening to you and you have been speaking more about this pan african kind of movement. just thewe doing about local contractors who are here fighting for contracts just to keep themselves alive and their families supported?

right now, it seems as though all of your attention right now and your finances coming from abroad. what are we doing locally? how many financial institutions are black-owned that can actually support some of the black-owned businesses in the united states of america? we look abroad for help, what are we doing here, locally, in the united states of america the best, who in the past when we had black-owned businesses, finances, furniture stores, grocery stores, all of these things have depleted -- what are we doing now, this day, in order to help ourselves in this country? is the uniteded states of america. we had 140 chapters in the united states. we are looking at this thing from a macro level. we have our local chapters who deal with the micro level, who deal with local banks, who deal with lending agencies, who deal with investment clubs, so it is there. i cannot went to kansas city and

the st. louis and to wichita, kansas putting out fires. i am from a national and international level, but we do have that vehicle. we are the largest black-owned business association in the world. we touch every street in the united states and every entity. we are there. the city's are what makes things great. chicago is one of our best chapters and they do a wonderful amount of work in chicago. as opposed to detroit, so what is the difference? it is the people of detroit versus the people of chicago, they're less organized and we both get them technical assistance to emulate chicago. host: the pew research center released analysis of some statistics. the headline is -- "businesses owned by women minorities lack in revenue share." it shows that when you look at the percentages of businesses on by black americans, 9.4% are

owned by black americans but they make up only 1.3% of total revenue compared to white businesses which account for about 75% of firms in america and also account for 90%? of revenue. what you see as some of the reason guest: that's the scale. they are entrenched. some of them are three generation, for generation, hard generation companies. we are just beginning. we will be ok as we grow. host: from illinois on the democratic line is anthony. good morning. caller: how are you doing? being a black in man from chicago, graduated from the university of illinois, knowing the black community suffer and watching young men every day on the streets, getting killed, knowing that the job population is declining in

the city of chicago, knowing individual tried to get a loan, and loan rates and interest rates are very high. if you go and see a caucasian person go and get it, loans are very low. these are the issues we had in the community. there are no jobs, no education and property. we talk about africa, south africa, africa is one of the richest continents in the world. we look at it like this here -- what are we going to do for chicago? what are we going to do for detroit? these are issues and problems that we are looking at that it seems like there is a genocide on the black community and the black community is suffering because what we see is a lot of politicians just blowing a lot of smoke but we do not see anything being done. this is what we are going to be doing this year -- we are going to start a movement because we're going to start moving this politicians that is blowing a

lot of smoke because this is a smoke came and people are waking up and they are tired of listening to what you are going to do and we look at the results and the results are not being done. you cannot continue to keep pulling the black community. you cannot continue to full the hispanic community because people are waking up. what are you guys going to do that every day we seek statistics on tv about black american young men being killed every day by josh just this month of september in chicago, 56 young people have been shot and killed because of their are no jobs. back in the day when i was coming up, we had the ncaa programs, we had the nyc programs. they are stripped. you tell me that if you've got a young man that has to make a orision of selling drugs living on the corner, he is going to sell drugs. become drug dealer has his employer. --t: that is and the night

that is anthony from illinois. aest: the drug industry has terrible retirement plan, let me assure you. what we can do as elijah mohammed said, we got to do it for ourselves. get on the web to go to the blackchamber.org and tell them harry alford sent you an you will know what to get capital and they will help you, sir. they will help you. keith fromcaller is virginia. also a minority business owner. caller: good morning. i'm glad to see you, harry alford. thank you. i am the president of a consulting firm and we help businesses get into business. one thing i notice from african-american business, and other businesses, they are out

and they are doing very well, but they have not put the various documents in place that they need to set up a corporate veil, things like bylaws. no one has created operating agreements, knowing has created shareholder agreements. they do not realize they are in trouble until something happens and they find themselves in court. we just had a client that we were representing that something similar happened to and we wanted them before or maybe months ago and he came back after he was getting ready to go to court saying he needed documents. it is too late. and you speak to the issue of being ready for business before getting into business? guest: yeah, they used to be an decision, business that would give technical assistance. there is the cessation of small as this development centers, which still exist, and i would prefer people to vent. the sba is out of the business of working with black-owned businesses. i am sad to say that died about six years ago. they are entities, many colleges

and universities with technical support offices where they do free business plans and give free technical assistance. host: a few comments from twitter -- one person writes shouldack business support call is ludicrous, economic justice is not a fantasy. another comment, with decades of set asides and minority business subsidies, black-owned businesses should be [indiscernible] guest: that's a myth, let's destroy that. coal is familyl, to black african-americans. i have natural gas on the land. money offmake some the oil companies. our got cousins down in louisiana who have become millionaires because of fossil fuel. there is nothing want with it. this is america. we want to turn lights on.

we want to drive our cars, we want power, so it is there. that's not be unrealistic thinking we can have windmills and solar panels throughout the land to generate all the megawatts we need to keep the country going. host: harry alford, president and ceo of the national black chamber of commerce. thank you for taking the time on labor day monday. guest: thank you. host: that concludes our show for today. join us tomorrow what we will talk politics with the political editor of "the boston globe," and we will be talking to stephen dennis, the white horse discussd and we will the campaign 2016 and the return of congress. we will see you then. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] ♪

next, dated that is being collected about you. and a discussion on technology and civil liberties. after that, how they minister she communicated with >> a signature feature of tv is our all-day coverage of festivals from across the country with top nonfiction authors. here is our schedule. near the end of september we are in new york for the brooklyn festival, celebrating its 10th year. at the end of october, the southern festival of books in nashville. liveeek after that we are

from austin with the texas book festival. at the end of the month we will at theo book festivals end of the weekend. it is the wisconsin book festival from madison. coast, theeast boston book festival. in november we will be in portland, oregon, for word stock. followed by the national book awards in new york city. in november we are live in -- for the 18th year in a row at the map -- miami book fair international. that is a few of the book festivals this fall on c-span2's book tv. >> now, a distraught -- discussion on what data is being collected about you online and how it is used, it was the focus of a forum in seattle with technology and policy experts with homeland security, the justice department, amazon, and zillow. this is about 30 minutes.