physical, technical and industrial security specialists are involved in project development from early site selection, planning, design, construction and through occupancy. all u.s. diplomatic facilities built by o.b.o. meet the department standards for security and life safety. . by 2020 we will have broken ground on over nine diplomatic offices in mexico and fulfill foreign policy objectives for many years to come and i'm happy to answer your questions at any time. mr. chaffetz: ms. saarnio, you are recognized for five minutes. ms. saarnio: thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today.

as the deputy assistant secretary of state responsible for our mexico portfolio, i want to assure you as my colleagues have that the safety and security of our colleagues in mexico are a top priority. i started my career in mexico city and would be proud to serve in mexico again. i would like to share with you the state department performs in mexico's border region. i will highlight the measures to enhance security in mexico through strong bilateral cooperation while ensuring safety along the u.s.-mexico board. the state department closely mpanies all threats to our diplomats and you -- and u.s. facilities. hey do their job in a flicting landscape.

the consular services provided to americans in mexico and working in a challenging environment. at every step we work to ensure the security and safety of all american citizens but particularly our diplomatic colleagues in mexico. we remain vigilant and analyze new potential threats. our embassy and our personnel meet with mexico's counterparts to discuss these concerns and making sure these are measures to protect our personnel. we communicate rapidly and effectively with u.s. citizens when a security situation changes. this provides u.s. citizens with the risks they may face when traveling to certain regions in mexico. the united states and mexico have a investment.

the state department with key u.s. agencies, the justice department, department of homeland security and department of defense work with the mexican government to combat transnational criminal organizations and to protect our citizens from the crime and violence these organizations generate. because of our robust and ongoing dialogue with mexico on security issues, federal authorities have taken measures to reduce violence where the united states is represented at the government consulates. the relationship between our two countries are huge. 80% of trade crossed the border. our integrated economic relationships boasts thousands of jobs and people cross our

border each day. mexico is the top one destination for travelers in the united states. on any given day there are 1.5 million americans in mexico. our u.s. consulates general support this relationship through visa services for tourists, students and workers and provide critical services to 138,000 u.s. citizens living in their districts and thousands of u.s. visitors and commercial travelers. these services include passports and renewals, providing information on voter registration and offering notary services for documents to be used in the united states. they have provided emergency services to american citizens who are arrested or kidnapped in mexico. we share the committee's concerns about the levels of

violence and we aseas it on a daily basis. u.s. interests are best protected by maintaining a strong presence on the ground in mexico and including our law enforcement and security relationship. we review and monitor the situation daily and have been taking appropriate steps to ensure the safety of american citizens and government personnel. this is and will continue to be a top priority for me, my leadership and the department. thank you for the opportunity to testify. mr. chaffetz: mr. harris, you are now recognized for five minutes. mr. harris: members of the committee, i appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today to speak about the department of homeland security's southern border approaches campaign joint task force west which represents the next evolution of border security. i assumed the position of

director of the joint task force on december 15, 2014. prior to this position, i was the first commander of south texas campaign where i served from february 2012 to december, 2014 in laredo, texas. i have held numerous executive positions in my career to include serving as chief patrol agent of laredo, texas and spokane, washington border control spec terse and deputy chief of the u.s. border patrol where i led the u.s. border patrol into the u.s. customs and board protection in 2003. i want to take a moment to speak to you about the southern border approaches campaign. this campaign directs d.h.s. resources in a fashion with pre- eyed fide secretary-approved targets spanning a range of

threats and challenges including terrorist threats, illegal immigration, drug and human and arms trafficking and financing of these operations. i'm working hand and hand with my counterparts from the u.s. coast guard and special agent in charge, director of joint task force investigations. although we are in the early stages we are working to coordinate d.h.s. forces and leverage department of defense, international, state and local and travel resources to combat the transnational criminal organizations to exploit vulnerabilities. this level of integration is unprecedented since the creation of the department in 2003. the joint task force west will secure the southern border approaches through efforts

integrating and prioritizing security operations. our five primary objectives are integrate and align our intelligence capabilities, institutionalize counternetwork operations to identify and target transnational criminal organizes and i will illicit networks and disrupt and degrade transnational criminal organizes . strengthen international prosecutorial and deter efforts against enterprises and significant activity impacting the joint task force west and finally, advance the joint task force mission through unified communication and messaging efforts. the structure of the joint task force west have strategic objectives against for corridors, california, arizona,

new mexico, west texas and south texas. the joint task force will focus on creating and implementing a standardized methodology for prioritizing strategic targets based on national security, public safety and border security threats. we have begun the threat prirtization process by developing a plan and courses of action for each corridor. the goal will expedite counternetwork operations against a list of transnational organizations across the southwest border on october 1, 2015. this has never before been done in a coordinated and integrated means across the entire southwest border. these corridor operations will expand our ability to impact illicit networks from their point of origin to destination point through integrated d.h.s. and interagency cooperation.

these joint efforts will result in application to identify targets through investigation, enforcement and administrative actions. the framework enables d.h.s. to streamline our collaboration and integration with other government entities. for example, in the south texas corridor, we have taken steps to move past collaboration and into the integration of intelligence, and interdiscs resources and counternetwork operations against threats. this new partnership reduces institutional barriers and duplication of effort provides for unity of effort and enhances our ability to dismantle these networks. i'm confident moving forward the campaign will effective disrupt and dismantle threats in a strategic and coordinated manner and improve our ability to combat criminal organizations

who present a threat to our efforts to secure the southern border. i look forward to answering any questions. mr. chaffetz: mr. judd, you are recognized for five minutes. mr. judd: thank you. in june, a helicopter was shot and forced down in texas this was a wakeup call to the increasing violence on the border. this was far from an isolated incident. for example, in 2014, less than 100 miles from the helicopter shooting, a border patrol agent was murdered defending his family from two armed illegal immants -- immigrants. 20 years ago, and about the time patrol, the border cartels weren't widely known and immigrant smuggling were conducted by organized crime and

not nearly on the level we see operating today. there were small time players conducting smuggling operations. although violence could and did erupt, the older generations took the long view and would risk losing a load of narcotics han opening up fire. this all began to unravel in the early 2 2000's. these cartels are organized, heavily armed and violent. the official death toll from the cartel violence in mexico is 60,000. more than the united states military lost in vietnam. the unofficial death toll in mexico is over 120,000 killed and 27,000 missing and presumed dead. in mexico, the cartels kill without hesitation or fear of

prosecution. cartel members shot done an army helicopter. why would we expect them to behave any differently on the u.s.-mexico border? the second factor driving the increased violence is the rise of criminal aliens. if you were a citizen of mexico we took down your information and took a single fingerprint and drove you to the border. it was a revolving door policy where agents arrested the same individual twice in the same shift. three positive developments changed this. the first was the change in the way we collect information. instead of capturing one fingerprint but we take prints f all 10 fingers and running background checks. we were then able to identify with certainty criminal aliens attempting to re-enter the

united states or identify those who were arrested. the second positive step with the implementation of delivery systems using certain places along the border and third was enforcement of the criminal deportation program. i want to be very clear on this, given the recent comments about who is crossing the border and asserting that the border is far safer. in 2014, i supported 177,000 convicted criminals. of this number, 91,000 were arrested by the border patrol trying to re-enter the country. in 2014, the border patrol arrested 500,000 meaning that one in every five arrests last year by the border patrol was a criminal alien. almost 50% of the criminal aliens deported were convicted of aggravated felony like murder, rape and sexual assault

of a child and drugs and weapons trafficking. and 60% of those deported had already been deported at least once before. this is the challenge we are facing at the border today. there are those who point to lower apprehension rates and say the border is secure. the agents will say it is not secure and the southwest border is not safe. we know what the problems are. what can we do to improve? increase manpower. currently 21,370 border patrol agents in this country. we are 2,000 less under that. we don't have the floor that congress has mandated. we do not have to double the size of the border patrol but we are ,000 agents short. secondly, supervisory staffing has , the border patrol is

too many layers of management. the border patrol has one supervisor for every four agents. the committee should mandate a one to 10 ratio and this could return another 1,500 agents to the field. we need to continue with interior enforcements and improve our training and prosecute assaults against border patrol agents. in this manner, we will decrease the violence on the border and maintain border security. mr. chaffetz: i thank you for your participation and service to this country. i recognize myself for five minutes. four people on this committee, yself and others sent a letter dated july 15, 2015. what percentage of the documents

asked for in this letter have they been given? ambassador moser: i don't know the exact percentage. we provided 150,000 pages. mr. chaffetz: doesn't matter unless we get the right ercentage. ms. saarnio: i'm not aware of that. that would be ambassador moser. mr. chaffetz: mr. starr, what percentage of the documents do we have? should we issue a subpoena? mr. starr: most of the documents are o.b.o.-produced documents. mr. chaffetz: where are these documents? ambassador moser: we have a process in producing them. we are more than happy to work with your staff -- mr. chaffetz: you can't tell us

that we got all the documents. what do we need to get them. o we need to issue a subpoena? when will you have those documents to us? ambassador moser: i can't tell you how fast the process will work. mr. chaffetz: shouldn't have to waste my time asking for documents we requested back in july knowing we were having a hearing on this date. mr. harris, of the border, the secure fence act of 2006 to find operational control as quote the prevention of all unlawful entry into the united states by terrorists and aliens, narcotics and other contraband, end quote. the goal of this was to achieve 100% of operational control. based on your knowledge and experience what percentage of the border today is secure?

mr. harris: i would have to defer to c.b.p. in my current capacity that's not in my area of focus. mr. chaffetz: is there a metric that you look on that? mr. harris: i'm in counternetwork operations. mr. chaffetz: you don't have an answer to that question. mr. judd? mr. judd: according to the agents that are on the front line and actually work and see what we arrest i would say we would be lucky if we are 40%. mr. chaffetz: mr. starr, one of the front line people that we rely on and for those americans working at our consulates are the local guards. do you know what we are paying those local guards on a monthly basis?

mr. starr: i couldn't quote you an exact dollar figure. we did go over this with a new contract that we are putting in place. i would tell you it's a competitive salary in terms of any other local guards in the country and it is competitive with the police as well. but it is based on mexican salaries. mr. chaffetz: that's the concern we are paying these local guards roughly $316 per month. and i recognize it's mexico and not new york city. wages are going to be different. but does that number sound about right, $316 for a local guard to guard our consulates? mr. starr: yes. mr. chaffetz: the opportunity for corruption is of great concern. i don't know what the magical number is, but mr. judd, i was going to ask you about the ratio of management and the agents that you need, but i think you have addressed that.

one of the great concerns i have is getting these new facilities to secure our american personnel. to give a little background and history, we were operating under standard industry and design that secretary paul put in place. under the obama administration, they moved to this design excellence. go to the second slide. ti juana was built under standard embassy design. is there anything wrong. is it too ugly for mexico? ambassador moser: it was a derivative. it didn't do the exact -- mr. chaffetz: we are spending $668,000 per desk but close to standard embassy design. we have these. monterey. the two under construction, we are looking at $1.8 million per

desk. we are talking about $191 million. how do you explain that? $154 million you start doing that math, that's 88 desks. why do we have such a massive jump in expense? it could go to personnel and guard forces and you want to take away danger pay. why so much expense on these? ambassador moser: it is my obligation as a career state department employee to make sure we are doing our best to serve our taxpayers' concerns. i will tell you that over time our security standards and building quality has increased in order to adapt to new circumstances. and it's very hard without a

detailed analysis that looks at site where a building is located and what we are trying to accomplish to compare on a desk by desk basis. mr. chaffetz: what other metric would you use? ambassador moser: accounting approach and look at the inputs and engage it -- mr. chaffetz: that's costing tens of millions of dollars more. it is an outrageous amount of money and taking longer. no doubt we need new facilities. have to ask you about the danger pay. i'm not sure which one of the hree to ask you about. ms. saarnio, to what mr. cummings said, are people working for the state department in mexico -- is there any threat

of their wages going down by the loss of danger pay? ms. saarnio: you know, i'm glad i get to answer this, because i'm proud of our foreign service colleagues. mr. chaffetz: are you going to cut their pay? ms. saarnio: allowances change over time as significances changed. yes, we have developed a new system and changing danger pay and hardship pay. in mexico, the changes will be some posts will go up and some posts will go down but that reflects the changes in the situation on the ground. the danger pay that has been calculated in the past, some of he elements of that, the criminals, violence and living conditions those are counted in hardship pay. if you look at the net way of our colleagues, they will be

getting a 5% increase. others will be going down by 5%. but that reflects the accurate situation. mr. chaffetz: there is no mayor that has authority over a police force there. we have documented the violence. are you telling me it's more safe now than it has been? ms. saarnio: yes. by our calculations it is. mr. chaffetz: the foreign service association disagree with this position. ms. saarnio: i'm not sure about the specific cases. mr. chaffetz: on the basis of conditions and environments which differ in conditions, recruitment and retention incentive, my understanding is they disagree with this. you are telling me in northern ?exico it's less secure

ms. saarnio: the situation on the ground has changed. mr. chaffetz: do you know how far you can travel from a consulate as an american? how far do you travel? ms. saarnio: your social life is rerestrictive. mr. chaffetz: nine scare miles that you are allowed to go and you are going to decrease their pay? ms. saarnio: when they sign up to go to these posts that situations may change and allowances may change and it's part of the process and we recognize it. mr. chaffetz: imjust telling you, you have a lot of people in this town who don't understand the massive amount of violence and the statistics we went through, the violence going on there and you are going to

decrease these people pay. my time has well expired. this is not an acceptable conclusion to your so-called analysis. i do not agree it is more safe than it has been and exceptionally difficult place to live. i recognize mr. cummings. mr. cummings: i want to pick up where the chairman left off. ms. saarnio, how often are these reassessments made with regards to pay allowances? i see mr. starr is jumping up and down. mr. starr: if i could answer the question. at least once a year we review the allowances at all of our posts. the danger pay that the chairman is referring to, in august of 2014, we began a review of how

we issued danger pay and looked at our hardship allowance. mr. cummings: when was that? mr. starr: august of 2014. our goal is to make sure that we have equitable implementation of our allowances across our entire world program. the global program includes posts in many cases which are much more dangerous. yes, i absolutely admit, there are high levels of violence in both of those places, but in our analysis, it is did he different that the violence is not directed against the consulate or consulate personnel. they can be in the wrong place at the wrong time. we have places in the world that violence are directed to those people. for the types of criminal violence that we see in mexico, that is reflected in their

hardship differential and many of them have gotten increases in their hardship differential to reflect the criminal violence. mr. cummings: what is hardship? mr. starr: it looks at many different factors. it can look at isolation, pollution, it can look at the medical condition. mr. cummings: nine-scare mile a hardship? mr. starr: exactly. but these posts in mexico, our employees can get in a car and be in the united states and across the border and shopping and going to school. we have people in places like chad and mali where no such outlet exists and in those cases they get a higher level of danger pay and higher hardship differential. we are very careful on how we look at this and make sure that our people are getting the right allowances for the conditions on

the ground. mr. cummings: did you have something, ambassador? , mr. starr, l find this is a bipartisan effort to try to make sure our people are treated fairly and that they are paid adequately but when i thought what ms. saarnio said, she said when these people go into these positions they know what they are going into. i mean i know that sounds simple, but when you are a person who wants to serve your government, yeah, you may may well be part of the situation, i assume a lot of these people take these positions because it's a part of their job, am i right? ms. saarnio: many of the foreign

service officers go to these posts knowing the dangers, but they also know that these allowances change over time when you are at post and if the situation it could be changed while serving there or after they leave. mr. cummings: you look at it on a yearly basis, if something radical happened and major problem, would there be an exception to that general rule of one year? mr. starr: not typically. when we have a radical change in the situation, we look at the measures that we take and may implement additional security. we may withdraw personnel and take family members out of a post. typically the allowances are looked at once a year. if something really drastic happens, but allowances are looked at once a year.

mr. cummings: going to another subject, you referenced a recent visit to some of the border consulates in mexico? mr. starr: i went early last month. mr. cummings: would you describe the situation that our american personnel on the ground are experiencing. mr. starr: i spent a great deal of time talking to our aware and they are know the levels of

we are not having trouble staffing for those posts. we aren't pulling any punches on the level of danger in mexico. we looked at that almost daily as we began to see subgroups within a cartel were beginning to fight it out among each other. residences and location of where we went shopping and facilities. mr. cummings: there incidents compared to the month before? mr. starr: yes. mr. cummings: did any of these security incidents involve u.s. citizens? mr. starr: some u.s. citizens,

not from the consulate but u.s. citizens affected. mr. cummings: what you talked about how you were monitoring the problem, but what else has the state department done or is doing to address that type of increase? mr. starr: i think that's where the value of the consulate is most apparent and the embassy as well. as we monitor the violence going up, we could play a role through our consular offices and warning americans and americans working there. we put out warnings. our general was dealing with the governor of the region and talking to the police and the ambassador and others were pointing out that the levels of violence were going up and the government needed to address this quickly and effectively. and i don't want to say this is

entirely at our urging. the government of mexico understood this. they put additional forces on the ground to stem the violence. mr. cummings: mr. harris in june of this year, shots were fired at the u.s. customs and border protection helicopter near laredo. the shots have appeared to have come from the mexican side of the border. fortunately, no one was injured, but it does raise concerns about the safety of our federal law enforcement officers that are protecting the border. in response, they sent to armored black hawk helicopters equipped to handle small arms fire in the region, is that correct? mr. harris: that's correct. mr. cummings: what else has been done to ensure the safety of the agents on the ground? mr. harris: before i answer the question i would like to say the

job of a border patrol agent is hard work. we had 122 agents killed. and d.h.s. and c.b.p. was created in 2003 and since that time, 33 killed and 29 killed were border patrol agents. no question being a u.s. border patrol agent is dangerous work. i think because we deal with a large population of economic migrants but mixed in are some criminals but agents have to stay on their toes. we try to take a look at what are called hot spots, zones known for high level of criminal activity and make sure we have sufficient agents resources and equipment. mr. cummings: to my question, mr. harris, can you think of

anything else congress can do to help protect these brave men and women on our borders? mr. harris: we appreciate all the support. i would like to point out on the helicopter shooting incident that chairman chaffetz responded. it is more stay engaged with the border. there is a lot of misinformation coupled with border security efforts. -- welcome any efforts members of congress to the border. mr. cummings: can you think of anything else we can do to help out on that end? while you are formulating your answer, i want you to know, mr. harris, on behalf of all of us, we do understand how dangerous the job is and we appreciate everything that you all do to address the issues.

we are sorry for the many losses and injuries that you just spoke about. mr. starr. mr. starr: the battle to increase security, rule of law and justice in mexico is going to be a long-term battle. i think that we have -- we can see what has happened in columbia and the types of improvements that have been made there and those are the types of improvements that we will have to help mexico make. we have programs in place. but i think continuing those types of programs that we started in columbia and currently running in mexico. all those types of things is what's going to make this a safer country. mr. chaffetz: there is no police

force. so you can work on training them. it's run by the drug cartels and shame on the state department for cutting the people's pay there from the state department. that's not the way you are going to build morale and giving tens millions of dollars and cutting people's pay. mr. cummings: reclaiming my zero time. mr. starr, would you please answer what mr. chaffetz just said. i think he makes a good point. mr. starr: he is correct that the local police force is not functioning there but there are levels of police forces as well. there are police from the -- it's like a state type of police and federal police also there

and soldiers. while chairman chaffetz is correct that we have great concerns about the fact that the mayor was murdered and the local police have tremendous difficulties, we also work with the federal and state authorities to ensure that other types of security services and police are effectively -- are as effective as they can. mr. chaffetz: i enter into the record, this is the united states department of state bureau of diplomatic security into the record. i recognize the gentleman from florida, mr. mica. mr. mica: thank you for holding the hearing. first of all, before we get to mr. judd, has the situation gotten worse? the violence just as bad in mexico as it's been?

mr. starr? mr. starr: it ebbs and flows. in certain places it's better than it was a year, two or three years ago and other places, certainly worse. ambassador moser: if you look at -- i'm not an expert on mexico. but congressman mica -- mr. mica: it's not getting much better, is that right? ambassador moser: there are parts that are safer than they were before. mr. mica: overall, it's still a retty violent country? same assessment? ms. saarnio: we are cautiously optimistic that the situation is omewhat better in parts of the country. we have seen parts of the country who were in insurgency status who are operating a lot

better. mr. mica: and there are places that are worse. ms. saarnio: yes. mr. harris: similar response. it depends on the area. i traveled to mexico on a personal basis and some areas you travel and others you don't. overall, dangerous place. mr. mica: i have read all the testimonies. mr. judd, every member of congress should read yours. little bit historic. i chaired criminal justice and drug policy from 1998 to 2000 and was in mexico. we had information at that time from the president's office to the cops on the street corruption was prevalent and unfortunately that's pretty much the same situation that we have today. but your report details it very well. tartling is the number of 2014

of u outline a number criminals -- convicted criminals and you cite the increasing number of criminal aliens coming across and how we are able to detect them. to put the figure in perspective, 2014, the border patrol apprehended and arrested 500,000 illegal immigrants, one in every five arrests last year was a criminal alien, is that correct? so to be arrested, they had to be in and caught? mr. judd: yes, sir. mr. mica: that is astounding. that is probably 100,000 criminal aliens entering the united states. it's out of control. what can the id

oversight committee do to improve. you said there have to be consequences. i was stunned that mexico is one of the most important illegal and narcotics transport in the country and how many agents do we have in phoenix? mr. judd: we have none. mr. mica: there has to be consequences. how many consulates do we have? nine in mexico, is that right? i think we should close every one of them and put the property up for sale. you have to have some consequences for action. the place is out of control. i just read -- you cited the at a u.s. shooting helicopter and chairman chaffetz hopped on that.

and in your report, mr. judd, you said they actually shot down a mexican helicopter the month before, is that correct? mr. harris: yes. mr. mica: you heard -- one of the mission neargs shut yesterday, the 43 kids were turned over by local authorities and shot or killed and then their bodies burned or destroyed. nd this week they produced a whitewash report on what took place. nd one of the leaders of mr. blanco was arrested. and interviewed a couple of weeks ago by cnn and more than 100 bodies have been found hidden in graves in the area

since october decrying a worsening security situation. it doesn't sound like it's getting better and killing people who are trying to do something about the injustice and slaughter that's going on in mexico. mr. judd: what i find the scariest part of all of this border violence is how it is extending into the interior of the united states. we had a young man shot in the back by presumed an illegal alien. we just had u.s. citizen in san francisco who was just killed. we are not only seeing violence on the border, but this is extending into the united states and that's scary. mr. mica: mr. chairman, i read this week, i think most of the illegal marijuana is still coming in from mexico. but congratulations.

we just passed this past week, i saw the report that our young people, our students, more of them are now hooked on marijuana than on cigarettes. congratulations. mr. chaffetz: i recognize the the gentlewoman from new york, mrs. maloney. mrs. maloney: thank you for calling this truly important hearing. and mr. judd hit it on the head with his comment that it's not only on the border but coming into the united stes. just this past week, a news reporter and a camera man were shot. a police officer putting gas in his car was shot. a woman from illinois was shot. the incidents that you mentioned and as mr. starr said, it's going to be a long effort on the border and as my colleague mentioned, it is out of control. i would like to point out that a

lot of the shooting is coming from guns that were manufactured and slipped over the border into mexico. in fact, mexico has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the entire world, yet it is seeing a surge in gun-related violence. just yesterday, chairman cummings chaired with me this letter that was sent to him from mexico. it says that the a.t.f. found that over 70% of the guns recovered in mexico in 2014 were sourced from the united states. now that is a shocking statistic. 70% of the guns came from america. and in it, he further writes and i quote, congress can play a very important role in combating

these transborder criminal organizations and the flow of illegal firearms by enacting proper legislation, end quote. i ask permission to put this letter into the record. mr. chaffetz: without objection, so ordered. mrs. maloney: we are trying to do just that. earlier today in a bape way, ranking member cummings and others, a -- representative kelly from illinois introduced legislation to make it a felony to deal with illegal guns -- to be a trafficker. it's not even a felony in our country to traffic in illegal guns. i would say how dumb can you be. we should have a bill making it a felony tomorrow, today. and also the penalties as we have heard in hearings before this committee, they don't even

bother to address traffickers or straw purchasers, those who purchase guns for others that are known criminals or drug dealers or gang leaders because there is no penalty. and they literally pled with us to give them the tools to do the job. today we are introducing this bill in a bipartisan way that would increase penalties for straw purchasers and make trafficking in illegal guns a felony. now in mexico, just to give an example to make a purchase at a gun store and only have one gun store in the whole country, but to make a purchase, they are required by law and the store is operated by the army, they must pass a background check, present identification, pass through a metal detector, hand over cell phones just to enter the

building. a perspective buyer is photographed and fingerprinted and is permitted to buy a single gun and ammunition and put it under lock and key. they have strong gun laws. where are all these guns coming from? they are coming from the united states. mr. harris, in your testimony you said and i quote from your testimony, the u.s.-mexican order, the primary threats are southern bound gun trafficking, illegal immigration and the violence associated with these activities. could you elaborate on the southbound gun smuggling, how big is it and tell us about this gun smuggling. mr. harris: i'll answer that question in two parts. one is what my role is at a strategic level as i mentioned

in my testimony for the first time ever, we have identified across the border, the top transnational criminal organizations who are involved n the full activity. this is to me a huge accomplishment never before seen in my career. all investigative agencies whether f.b.i., d.e.a. and i.c.e., they have case, but we have an interagency agreement what criminal organizations represent the highest threat to u.s. national security. some of those organizes are involved in southbound weapons smuggling. this has been on the domestic side. but this new position gives me the capability to target these organizations from the origination point to the final destination point. that's one point. mrs. maloney: how many guns do

you think are being trafficked into mexico each year? mr. harris: second part of my answer will respond. i'm not an expert at port of entry operations. in my former capacity, we routinely augustment southbound inspections with detailed border patrol agents i would say our success in targeting southbound weapons smuggling is due to the vigilance and capabilities of our agents. we do not have the same kind of technology going southbound that we have going northbound nor do he we do you 100% southbound inspections. based on intelligence and , and it would be helpful to have some technology

going southbound, a nonintrusive inspection technology. and i think it would give us a better picture of what kind of weapons are going southbound. mrs. maloney: my time has expired. but if i could say mr. chairman, obviously, part of controlling the crime in america and at the border is controlling the sale of illegal gun trafficking and straw purses of illegal guns. mr. chaffetz: i recognize the gentleman from texas, mr. farenthold. mr. farenthold: mrs. malonely calls out for more gun laws in the united states that mexico has some of the strictest gun laws. that makes the point that gun laws takes guns

out of the hands of law-abiding citizens. mrs. maloney: would the gentleman yield? mr. farenthold: i used to represent the border at brownsville and joined mr. chaffetz in june. had the opportunity to visit with some of the border patrol agents. real quickly, mr. harris, have we caught the people who shot at he helicopter? mr. harris: the f.b.i. is responsible for investigating assaults on federal agents and they are responsible. an individual was taken into custody and transported where he went before a judge and now missing. mr. farenthold: that's reassuring. one of the things i learned in visiting the border patrol agents and spending some time on the border was the level of frustration is some of the policies that this government has that makes it difficult for

them to do their job. catch and release or a policy if there are a certain number of illegal aliens in a vehicle, the human smuggler is not prosecuted and is let go. frustration we are seeing the same folks again and again, they into ught and shot back the united states in a matter of hours. i visited with some of the sheriffs in the district i represent. they're all very upset and concerned about the enforcement priority program which case the federal government refuses to take illegal aliens that they apprehend for deportation. mr. judd, i'll start with you. was my characterization of the rank and file agents accurate?

mr. judd: i think it's too soft. i think you could have expressed a much greater level of frustration. i want to point out on the northern border there was an arrest made of an illegal alien. we took this individual into custody. we immediately released the individual on the streets. within weeks that individual went up to great false, montana, and raped a 14-year-old girl. we had this individual in our custody. we had the authority to remove this individual from this country and we didn't do it. and that individual went and raped a 14-year-old girl. her life will never be the same. mr. farenthold: we see this killingd again with the of kate steinle and men who had been deported seven times.

there was a story in the news where a convicted burglar from mexico with a history of repeated felony convictions and deportation was caught last week. fifth time he crossed the border and spent the bulk of the past 30 years in various jails. it seems critical that we get the border secured. no point working on immigration before we get that done. mr. harris, can you talk about the priority enforcement program, the p.e.p. have you heard from the sheriffs as well about their concerns if they catch somebody, and illegal alien and do nothing but turn them loose. sanctuary nded cities. we have basically created a sanctuary country, haven't we?

mr. harris: as was noted in my testimony, i have been in the border patrol for 31 years and made up the 1.6 million apprehensions a year with 3,000 agents on duty. most of those individuals were from the country of mexico and very easy to deal with those individuals. it was a revolving door type of a situation as mr. judd indicated. but the border dynamics have changed over my career. about 42% of everyone we apprehend is from a noncontiguous territory. a lot of them being women and children. it is a different dynamic how we deal with those individuals. and 33% of everybody the border patrol arrests has to go before an immigration judge or proceeding. the border patrol does not own all of the process -- nor am i eking that ownership, but --

>> the u.s. house is holding a brief pro forma session and will return to the hearing as soon as the house finishes their business. cial purposes is expressly prohibited by the .s. house of representatives.] the speaker pro tempore: the house will be in order. the chair lays before the house a communication from the speaker. the clerk: the speaker's rooms, washington, d.c., september 15, 2015. i hereby appoint the honorable thomas j. rooney to acted a speaker pro tempore on this day -- to act as speaker pro tempore on this day. signed, john a. boehner, speaker of the house of representatives. the speaker pro tempore: the prayer will be offered by our chaplain, father conroy.

chaplain conroy: let us pray. creator, god, we give you thanks for giving us another day. in this moment of prayer, please bless the members of the people's house as they meet with their respective constituents. we acknowledge that many of our citizens observe a new year, a celebration of your creation of man and woman. may we all do our part in your creation, preserving all you have given us for the benefit of all your children. bringing into reality peace and justice, especially among those whose life experience is devoid of these things. and as the members return in the coming days, grant them wisdom, patience and goodwill as they face the most pressing issues of these days. may their efforts issue forth

in solutions benefiting all and neglecting none. may all that is done be for your greater honor and glory, amen. the speaker pro tempore: the chair has examined the journal of the last day's proceedings and announces to the house his approval thereof. pursuant to clause 1 of rule 1 the journal stands approved. the chair will lead the house in the pledge of allegiance. i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. without objection, the house stands adjourned until noon tomorrow for morning hour debate.

we've been working extensively with mexico since 2008. we've invested about $1.4 billion in trying to improve the security situation in exico. we have made progress and we think that's because of our presence on the ground. if we're working in juarez

ority hand -- tijuana, we can work with mexican counterparts to give them advice, to lend assistance when they need it, to provide training when possible. and it's because of the funding provided by congress, where we've been able to make some in-roads and help mexico establish the rule of law and the system that they are seeking. ms. norton: what impact would closing the cons late have on an initiative like the merida initiative? ms. saarnio: i think it would be very tragic not to have our colleagues down there in mexico. they work very well every day on a daily basis with counterparts all over the country. ms. norton: is the conflict where they're based? ms. saarnio: they're based at the embassy but also in several of our cons lates, yes. in some of the cases where we've had the most success, it's where our officials were working locally with the officials locally. yes, it would have an impact

and i think it would be detrimental to not have -- ms. norton: what impact has it had so far on security in the region? ms. saarnio: we believe there's a strong presence of our consulate's help -- consulates help establish security. not only are we providing for the security of american officials, american citizens who are there, but we also can work with local authorities and , as i said, to help them rebuild their institutions and help the mexican government achieve what it's seeking to do. our colleagues are really working all over the country all the time with the mexican government and we're trying to help them achieve their goals. ms. norton: thank you, mr. chairman. mr. chaffetz: now recognize the gentleman from georgia. mr. carter: thank you, mr. chairman. earlier in your opening remarks you said environments such as that in mexico involve constantly shifting threats that require comprehensive planning, agile decision making and in depth diplomacy.

you went on to say, but it's not enough to improve security. we're also training the foreign service community on how to better respond in these environments. since 2008 the state department has been -- has had a plan to build a diplomatic security training center. included in that has been the curriculum, the infrastructure and the personnel. both the o.m.b. and the g.a.o. have come out with reports on this. and during that -- during those studies, those studies that the o.m.b. and g.a.o. have come out with, the o.m.b. report has not been released. i have seen the o.m.b. report. my staff has seen the g.a.o. report. both of those reports cite the lack of cooperation by the state department in trying to come up with proposals for this facility to be built. , on a facility

that's this important, on facilities that's this expensive, why the state department would be uncooperative in addressing this? can you tell me why the federal law enforcement training center in glen could he, georgia, was only given 60 days to respond to this? don't you think that they deserve more than 60 days? don't you think the taxpayers of this country deserve to know exactly apples and apples what's going to be the best facility, what are we going to get the most from, from our taxpayers' dollars there, would you agree with that? mr. starr: yes, sir, i would. i believe it's clear that spending money on something that doesn't meet our requirements is not going to be a good investment. in previous hearings and in previous discussions with them, they could not take our entire program and don't have the facilities that we need for the types of weapons that we use at

the facility. they proposed using the bombing range, which is about 60 miles north. that is a marine corps bombing range that is at the moment under consideration from going from a nonlive munition bombing range to a live munition bombing range. mr. carter: i understand that. mr. starr: you can't use it. therefore we believe that the fort picket site is the best. mr. carter: let me ask you, did you make this clear to them? do you think that they had all the information? because when you talk about the curriculum requirements for the training center, both in the o.m.b. report and the g.a.o. report, and i quote here, it says, the course information is only in the minds of the instructors and providing it would cause a significant delay in diplomatic security operation. how can we get a price on the curriculum, how can we get an idea, when it's only in the minds of the instructors? mr. starr: i'm sorry, sir, that's not correct.

caret this -- mr. carter: this comes right out of the support. mr. starr: this is not just in the mind of instructors. mr. carter: then why is that in the report? i have seen the report. mr. starr: which report? mr. carter: the o.m.b. report. which you have denied to be released. i found nothing in there sensitive whatsoever. there were six comparisons done. two of the comparisons were even and one of them favored fort picket. can you tell me why that report's not being released? mr. starr: sir, the o.m.b. report is a preliminary study. mr. carter: why is it not being released? mr. starr: i don't know, sir. that's an o.m.b. report. i can tell you that the g.a.o. report does not reflect that. the g.a.o. report has been finished. it has not been released yet either. i think that's it's probably wise to wait until that report is released. mr. carter: you'd agree, this is important. protecting the lives of our foreign service members are

very important. protecting their lives. and training is very important. we all agree with that. you know, this is easy. this is easy when we sit here and when we sat here a couple of months ago and talked about afghanistan and said, hey, we spent too much money, we should have, could have, would have. but what's not easy is to do something about it and to learn from it. and to have an apples to apples comparison. you need to go back, you need to compare the two sites, compare them fairly. if you're right, then i will be the first one in line to support you in that. but i'm telling you, you have not done that yet. the state department has made up their mind, they're not going to change their mind, it can only be built near washington, d.c., because after all, everything comes from washington, d.c. that's the only way it can ever work. mr. starr, this is not right. you need to go back, you need to make it apples to apples comparisons. if we sit here and we say we

shouldn't have spent this much money, but we don't learn from it, and we don't do something about the future, then we're all at fault here. mr. chairman, i yield the remainder of my time. mr. chaffetz: i thank the gentleman. now recognize the gentleman from pennsylvania, mr. cartwright, for five minutes. mr. cartwright: thank you, mr. chairman. i thank all the witnesses for coming today. this is an enormously important discussion we're having. we heard from you, mr. harris, and particularly from you, mr. judd, some really vivid testimony about the level of violence that we're seeing connected with the border. the level of criminal that we're seeing at the border. but really, chairman chaffetz called this hearing in large measure to talk about whether we ought to close those three consulates that he discussed and actually my colleague, mr. mica, is calling for the closure of all nine consulates

in mexico. what i didn't get from you was the nexus between that discussion and the level of violence. how does it cut, starting with you, mr. harris, how does -- how would closing these three consulates that chairman chaffetz is talking about, how would that cut on the violent situation there? mr. harris: sir, first of all, let me just say i'm not familiar with the criteria that was referenced on the -- the office and the pay systems and all that. i'll just say that in terms of my business, our relationship with mexico, and our ability to protect and promote u.s. interest is critically important to border security. i routinely traveled to mexico, worked with the state department and all of the

country team in mexico city, so having our people deployed in a way that we can best protect and promote the interest of the united states is critically important. mr. cartwright: mr. judd? mr. judd: when i came to testify, i came to testify about violence on the border and keeping u.s. personnel safe. as far as mexican consulates go, i have no idea how to do that. all i can tell is you i am an expert in border security and what comes across the border and how we can better promote operations to effectively secure the border. and that's what i'm trying to give testimony on. mr. cartwright: that's kind of a separate discussion that you gentlemen are giving us. i appreciate your coming and those are sobering comments that both of you gave us. in february of this year, in fact, right at the time of the , i spent e violence

some time with my dear friend and colleague, congressman faleomavaega, in south texas. in fact, we were right across the border from there at the time. in february. i met with individuals from c.b.p. who worked tirelessly to ensure that our border is secure. most notably, and something that almost never gets mentioned, is it's keeping our border secure from insects that would infiltrate our american crops. i thank you for all the work in that regard. i witnessed how vitally important our trade relationship is with mexico. the u.s. is mexico's largest foreign investor. more than 18,000 u.s. companies operate in mexico. my state of pennsylvania exports 3.-- $3.44 billion worth of goods to mexico every ar, so that accounts for

246,409 pennsylvania jobs. so this is a subject of interest to me. on my trip i learned about the role of the factories where mexican workers assemble products for foreign companies, most are u.s.-owned or subsidiaries and employ american managers and engineers. many of whom work in the mexican factories as managers, middle managers by day, and then come back over the border to places like mcallen, texas, where they live. our working relationship with mexico is enormously important to our economic security and as i witnessed, the work of the consulates is vital to that mission. now, in your testimony you recognized the importance of the bilateral relationship between the u.s. and mexico. you stated, quote, two-way trade topped $500 billion in

2014, with 80% of that crossing the u.s.-mexico land border. how do you u.s. consulates facilitate our trade relationship with mexico? ms. saarnio: thank you, congressman, that's an excellent question. our consulates are very active with the business community on the ground. in dealing with both security issues, but also in pro proting -- promoting trade and the business that goes back and forth. the u.s. and mexico share this very close north american trading relationship and it's gotten deeper in the last 20 years. after nafta. i have to say that i think our consulates, besides providing daily contact with the american companies there, they support business documents need to be signed, they need to be noterized, they need to help moving freight across the border, if something gets stopped because of the lack of paperwork or something, they'll work with them to help facilitate and make the trade more efficient. our consulates are very active

in working with that and it is my understanding the business community is very supportive of an active presence by the consulates in those regions. thank you. mr. cartwright: thank you. i yield back, mr. chairman. mr. chaffetz: i thank the gentleman. i now recognize the gentleman from texas, mr. herd, for five minutes. herd herd thank you, mr. chairman. eye -- mr. hurd: thank you, mr. chairman. i'd like to highlight the problem of insects, it's a real problem and something we deal with all the time. i represent over 820 miles of the border, from, you know, to el paso with mr. o'rourke and cuellar. we represent the mexican border. this is something we engage in on a weekly basis. my first question is to you, mr. judd. i'm going to try to keep our thing tight. we spent our time here discussing the violence of the border and the danger of the

border. i was on the border last week and i know one of the challenges i heard a lot was the lack of man power in some of these locations. especially a place like precidio. can you tell us what this means from an operations perspective and if you can keep that answer tight. mr. judd: absolutely. without the man power on the border, we can't properly -- we just physically can't secure the border. we need men and women on the border to do that. when you have specific areas like that where the living conditions are absolutely horrendous, it's nearly impossible to keep agents in that area. we need to do something. it was interesting that a couple years ago they took away the designation from that city. mr. hurd: you're reading my mind. my understanding is that some of these locations have changed their stat from us hardship, i've seen a disproportion at

share of agents leave or transfer out. part of the move away from hardship designation was an effort to save money. is the union open to some form of solution that would allow an agent to move up in terms of eligibility or preference if they spend time there? mr. judd: we've been pushing the agency for that and unfortunately they haven't reciprocated. mr. hurd: excellent. i think we'll have more conversations on that. i want to thank you all and your organizations and your predecessors for what you do. i spent nine years as an undercover officer in the c.i.a. i was in some really dangerous places like pakistan, afghanistan and i've been in embassies that have been bombed, i've been in embassies that have been shot up and where thousands of people have marched on it. and because of the work of y'all's organizations, you had mama herd's youngest son come home. i appreciate that and what you do. my only real concern is the cost of some of these

embassies. texas a&m university built a 110,000-seat stadium for $450 million. i think there's some expertise we can rely on there. but one of the problems that i actually have, and when i appreciate what y'all do with the travel advisory in mexico, the advisory in mexico is the only advisory where it's by state. i think that shows the important relationship that we have with mexico. we can't secure our border. i know mr. judd and his colleagues are working hard every single day. and we can facilitate the movement of goods and services at the same time. we must and that's super important. o, waurezz, 2008, -- juarez, 2008, murder capital of the world. 2010, half as many murders as detroit and new orleans. ojinaga ess murders in

in 2014 than there were in baltimore. so my concern is, when we talk about mexico's a big place. 80% of the violence is in 20% of the country. that's about five states. if you break that down into municipality, it's about 20 out of hundreds. i get frustrated when we try to talk about mexico as one place. and it's not. so i'm just looking to work with y'all on making sure that the travel advisories in some of these cities are reflective of the needs on the ground. i made a comment when i was there, i've been in pretty dangerous places. i'm looking, you know, just for y'all's opinion on being age to -- able to ensure that those travel advisories are reflective of those communities. i know on the border it's not two communities, it's one community. the importance of trade and people, goods and services going back and forth, is so critical to this country. what's good for northern mexico

is good for the southern united states and it's good for both countries. mr. starr, your comments please. mr. starr: thank you, congressman. specifically to that topic, both owe sack and the warnings that we work with from each individual consulate and the osac country counsels and the city councils that we have look specifically at the areas. the cons lar warning sheets, are country-wide. but there are also postsecurity bulletins that come out from the consulate. this is one of the arguments of why we have consulates in different places. american citizens can go to that website for each individual consulate and look at what's going on in that immediate area. i recognize that, yes, sometimes the warning sheets are a rather blunt tool. because we have, i think, was it over 25 million americans a year visit mexico? we do have to give them honest, open advice. but we also further break it down for those people that are in specific areas, we try to do

that. i will take your concerns back with me. mr. hurd: thank you very much. my last point. i'm already over time. i apologize, chairman. please communicate to the members of the foreign service, it's sometimes overlooked at the difficulty in their job. they're doing it in hard places. they're working hard every single day to export our soft power around the world and they do it in tough places. i recognize that. i had the honor of serving side by side with many of those. thank you for what you do and please communicate that back. mr. chairman, i yield back. mr. chaffetz: thank you. i'll now recognize ms. kelly for five minutes. ms. kelly: thank you, mr. chair. everyone here today would agree that the mexican government must work to enhance security in their country. the violent crime that takes place in some places in mexico, taking into consideration what my colleague just said, often resonates across the border here in the united states and simply cannot be ignored. we know american firearm as often turn up at crime scenes in mexico. in march the a.f.t. reported

that out of 104,850 guns tratesed between 2009 and -- traced between 2009 and 2014, 70% originated in the u.s. mr. harris, i'm sure that customs and border patrol encounters many guns at the border. do you agree that the consistent flow of firearm as from the u.s. across the border to mexico is a serious problem? mr. harris: yes, ma'am. i had responded to a previous question, i think our men and women do a great job on south-bound inspections. the o.f.o. personnel who are doing sometimes random south-bound inspectionses are oftentimes augmented by border detailed over to assist with that effort. the firearms that are seized during south-bound operations, without the aid of intelligence or investigative information, are largely due to the hard work of the men and women. however, as i'm sure you know, we do not have the same level

of technology and inspection capabilities going south-bound as we have north-bound. and i think if we would have some similar technology, the back scattereders and other nonintrusive inspection capabilities, to augment the great work of the men and women on south-bound inspections, probably would lep us do a better job of seizing more weapons going into mexico, which is a problem. ms. kelly: thank you. in 2008 the mexican ambassador to the united states pled with the u.s. to do something to help stem the flow of weapons into his country saying, and i quote, between texas and arizona alone, you've got 12,000 gun shops along that border with mexico. a lot of these gun shops provide weapons that feed into organized crime in mexico. so we really need the support of the united states. do you agree with that, american firearms are contributing to the violence within mexico? or some parts of mexico?

ms. saarnio: thank you, congresswoman. i think the problem of violence in mexico, and as it crosses over the united states, is a problem we share with mexico. we share a common border, we share many issues. they're multifaceted issues. i think we have to deal with problems on our side of the border and the mexicanses have do to deal with problems on their side of the border and we do work very close which will them on it. i'm sure that if we were to deal with some of the these issue on our side, they would be appreciated in mexico. ms. kelly: this is a tremendous problem because one of the principle tactics used by criminals to obtain these weapons is straw purchasing and i know my colleagues have already raised this issue and i'm proud to join ranking member cummings and congresswoman maloney to introduce the bipartisan gun trafficking prevention act of 2015. house resolution 34555. i feel this bill will close this glaring loophole and would help with the issue, so thank you and i yield back. mr. chaffetz: i'd like to make

a noith note here that the -- from homeland security, customs and border patrol, this is the number of seizures of guns on the southwest border in 2015. 60. 6-0. that's it. if you look at the a.t.f. in istic, some 8,200 traces a category called u.s. source firearms. i want to be careful. because u.s. source under the definition provided by the a.t.f. refers to those firearms that were democratted by a.t.f. to be manufacture -- determined by a.t.f. to be manufactured in the united states or legally imported into the united states by a federal firearms licensee. so legal transportation of it, they may have been used in a crime, but if they were manufactured -- manufactured in the united states, they would also fall into that statistic. i think it's a little bit high. and if anybody on this panel is concerned about the illegal flow of guns, then you've got to look first at what the obama

administration did in fast and furious. this panel, this oversight committee, asked for the documents from the state department and from others about the operation, from the department of justice, i should say, about fast and furious. did the administration work with us in an open and candid way? no. did the administration provide the documents to congress? no. we had to take them to court. in fact, that is still pending. because the government through the department of justice knowingly and willingly gave the drug cartels nearly 2,000 weapons. so we can drag up mr. holder and other people in the obama administration, but they gave out nearly 2,000 ak-47's to the drug cartels and we want to look at that. we had to hold the attorney general in contempt of congress. when he to actually go to the courts to try to get those documents. we still don't have those documents. so for people to say, oh, we're worried about the drugs or the guns that are going back and forth, let's look at what our government did in a complicit way to provide the drug cartels

those weapons. that is an investigation this committee will continue, it's still in the courts. it's one of the most outrageous things to happen. i would agree with the gentlewoman. but it shouldn't start with our government knowingly giving those weapons to the drug cartels. thanks, everybody for their indulgence. i now recognize the gentleman from north carolina, mr. walker, for five minutes. mr. walker: thank you, mr. chairman. appreciate your passion on this issue. i want to talk a little bit about or go in the direction concerning human trafficking and smuggling if i could. i want to tie it into the border crossing cards. i have a question. what are the risks of these thieves that are able to duplicate these cards? is that possible, the 11,500 that were made? because i have a card here as well and it's a card that i use here in d.c. sometimes i'll use it to vote. other times i just show it and i'm kind of granted access here. help me understand. an that be duplicated?

mr. starr: sir, they have features in them that make it difficult to duplicate them. i think the other thing that's important to remember on the cards that were stolen, that anybody that's actually trying to do illegal activity would not want to use one of those cards that was stolen because every one of those is registered electronically as a stolen card now. so if they go to the border and show it, it automatically rings a bell. these people are going to be doubly inspected. so we have a high degree of confidence that the cards that were stolen, the majority have been recovered. those that haven't been, very difficult to duplicate and likely that the cartels or anybody else engaged in illegal business would not want to use them. rfid can be turned off remotely. mr. walker: is something we can go on record saying those are 100% inoperable? they're completely useless? they would not be used by someone trying to smuggle human

beings -- is that fair to say? mr. starr: i would think, sir, that nobody that's in the smuggling business that's going to try to go legally across the border would want to use one of those cards that's entered as stolen. as i say, that would raise the profile. what they would really want is to steal a card from a legal user that's not been declared stolen, that has a similarity on it to the person on it. even the biometrics are not going to be the same. mr. walker: it's not something they could use as an i.d. card or passing through anything? these cards now, once they've been deactivated so to speak, if that's the right terminology, this if there's no way they can use those at anyplace or location, for whatever purpose? mr. starr: i wouldn't go that far. along the border where there's active inspection of them, i think they'll be detected very quickly. i think people do use them for other purposes. but again, if the photo graph

doesn't match, and there are hard to do photo substitutions without destroying that card, it would be very difficult. mr. walker: mr. judd, do you have any comments on that? mr. judd: no. the ports of entry, i don't work there. i work between the ports of entry. for me it would be very difficult if somebody took a card, like, for instance my card, if somebody took my card and i encountered them in the interior, there's no way for me to run that through the checks that mr. starr currently -- mr. walker: fair enough. i'm satisfied with that answer. let me ask you this. in moving forward, have we pretty much solidified that this mistake is now moving forward, this won't happen again, is that something we've looked into as far as how this was broken, how this was stolen, how these things got loose to begin with? mr. starr: i visited the transit facility that they went out of, sir. talked with the employees there. there had been a very hard look at how we were moving those cards. we have made some changes in

how they're delivered. we are now only -- i would prefer not to speak about some of the ways that we have gone into making some of those changes. but we did look closely at it. i think our sheets are still accurate. hijacking and carjacking is a problem in mexico. we have to watch out for. that but we are taking -- for that. but we are taking additional measures to try to ensure that the this doesn't occur again. mr. walker: i appreciate that. human trafficking in my state, north carolina, even that far away from the border, is now number nine in the country. we were able to pass early on training for border security, that piece of legislation is now law. this is a very technologically advanced, even in our own research here, we're showing, some of your reports showing these aren't just ma and pa.

these have been assimilated into these large international organizations, we want to make sure we're doing everything we can to shut that down at the border. appreciate your help with that i yield back. thank you, mr. chairman. mr. chaffetz: if the gentleman will yield. how many border crossing cards are there in circulation? o you have any idea? millions, right? mr. starr: millions, sir. certainly tens of millions. mr. chaffetz: so the idea is that mexican nationals can get a border crossing card that is valid for 24 -- for, is it 24 hours in the united states? it's a day pass, basically. mr. starr: by state, there are distances that they can go within a certain state with them and other limitations on them. mr. chaffetz: so the idea is that you can basically go for the day, go shopping and say -- and then come across the border. but there are millions of them. there's no exit program. correct? do you have any way, mr. judd, are you scanning -- how many of

the border -- border crossing cards that are used daily are scanned in their exit? mr. judd: that i'm aware of, none. mr. chaffetz: how many are scanned on the inbound? mr. judd: all of them. mr. chaffetz: so, we have statistics about how many come into the united states and we have zero statistics on how many actually leave the united states. what's the consequence of being caught in the united states with just a border crossing card? mr. judd: next to nothing. mr. chaffetz: so we give out millions of passes, we have no exit program. we have no by a of -- way of never fige and there's no consequence if you do it -- verifying and there's no consequence if you do it anyway. so thousands of them get stolen. i'm still worried that they're used in many ways as a flash pass, yeah, i'm just here for the day. even though in some places you can only go 25 miles into the united states, in other places i think it's up to 40 miles, if i'm not mistaken. but it's not supposed to be your free entry into the united states of america and yet it's

just inexcusable to have no exit program to be able to scan these passes. i'll yield back. y apologies. ms. plaskett: plass very yen jouse -- thank you. i like that. good afternoon to all of you. i know we're talking about consulate construction. but i just came home from the u.s. virgin islands, which is now, along with puerto rico, considered the fourth border. and we had a weekend of violence that was profound. with a young man being gunned down in a daycare parking lot while his wife went to pick up their child. 100 shots being fired in the early evening in another part of the town. and then the following morning, in front of a high school at 9:00 in the morning, granted it was a saturday, another individual being gunned down.

and i understand that a lot of this is, one, due to economic nonopportunity, failing schools, but also because of the guns and drugs that come through borders like my own. when i look at, in 2007, that the u.s. and mexico began what i hear is called the merida initiative, which according to the state department is an initiative with four general goals. to disrupt criminal organizations, strengthen judicial institutions, improve border infrastructure and technology, and improve stability in the mexican community. i wish places like puerto rico and the u.s. virgin islands had an initiative with its own government like that. but when i see some of the bills that are coming through and the lack of appropriations and the lack of support i'm getting from many of my colleagues on that, it makes me question if any of that's ever

going to happen. but i know we're here to talk about consulate construction. and progress in mexico. and so i've digressed and i'll get back on topic to what i was supposed to be talking about. i was fortunate to go with my colleague, mr. chaffetz, to mexico in may. because i was interested in seeing how borders and consulates operate. to stem not just the tide of illegal drugs and guns and individuals coming undocumented into this country, but also the amount of work and cooperation that's done in agriculture as well. in places like -- between mexico and the united states. and the amount of trade and consumer goods and commerce that happens in these areas. and so we went and we visited the site where the new mexico city embassy was supposed to be

-- is supposed to be built. and i understand that there were a lot of consulates in this area because of the amount of commerce and trade, along with individuals that go on in these areas. so, i wanted to ask, and i think mr. moser, you would be the appropriate person, the three consulates in dangerous areas near the border,ity hanna , they've all recently been completed in 2008, 2011, 2014 respectively. is that correct? r. moser: yes. ms. plaskett: plass and all of these three consulates meet security standards? mr. moser: i cannot build a building without mr. starr's explicit material. ms. plaskett: did they meet your approval? mr. starr: yes, they do. ms. plaskett: ok. and there's another consulate that's currently under construction, that's estimated to be completed in 2017. is that correct?

is that accurate? mr. starr: yes. ms. plaskett: and then the consulate and an embassy in mexico city are also supposed to soon be under construction. mr. moser: yes, ma'am, that's correct. ms. plaskett: the four remaining consulates are in the site acquisition phase for new locations. and as for the completion timelines, when we traveled to mexico city, they were told that the consulate was estimated to be completed in 2019 and mexico city embassy estimated to be finished in 2020. are those timelines still in place? mr. moser: yes, ma'am. they do depend somewhat on mexico city's case about when we will receive the clean site. ms. plaskett:. ok. as i recall, the clean site was not for the entire space. it was for a portion of that embassy. mr. moser: a very small portion in the southern corner of the site. ms. plaskett: and we have an idea when mexico, the

government will give that? mr. moser: ma'am, we are working with our seller in order to obtain the clean site. and we are working currently on a timeline for the delivery of that and we expect it to be sometime in the fall of 2016. ms. plaskett: can you explain how they're responding to delays in that, aside from working with the seller? mr. moser: if you mean how we're we hond -- how we're responding, i will say this. you know, we looked for 10 years, over a decade, at 20 different sites in mexico city, o find one that would meet our very robust and, by this hearing, everyone acknowledges, very important diplomatic platform that we have in mexico city. when we finally identified from our seller the site which is a short couple mile distance from our current location, we

realized that this would actually fulfill all of our program needs from providing an effective platform for our law enforcement agencies to our traditional diplomatic activities, to even providing space for a benjamin franklin library, which is very important for our public diplomacy outreach. yes, we have -- yes, there have been delays in acquiring site. but we still feel that within this timeline, that this is sufficient for us to build a building from the time we received the site and get it up and operational. and that construction timeline is around 50 months. ms. plaskett: when i talked with people on the site, one of the main are ins why this was such a great -- reasons why this was such a great site is because of the ability to buy land of that size from multiple sellers is almost impossible. mosemose -- mr. moser: yes, that is correct. you know, one of the things is,

you know, it would have been possible, of course, to find a green-filled site if we wanted to be well outside of mexico city. but to the extent that we need to engauge with our colleagues in the mexican government and in businesses, we need to be in an urban location that really mirrors our present diplomatic platform. ms. plaskett: thank you so much. i've exhausted my gracious and generous time and thank you, mr. chair, for your general roadways it. mr. chaffetz: thank you. now recognize the gentleman rom georgia. mr. hice: is it your understanding that the cards can be used by individuals illegally to get into the country?

mr. judd: if somebody's not properly looking and inspecting who the person is, for instance, if you come through the port of entry and you present your card and they don't look at you and they just swipe it and it's a good card and they pass you through, absolutely they can do that. but the cards really are, as mr. starr said, they're very good cards, they're very difficult to duplicate. but if you have somebody else's card and they don't properly inspect you, you could get into the united states. mr. hice: is there any evidence that that has ever happened? mr. starr: not to my knowledge yet, sir, no. mr. hice: so, you would say that no one has ever entered this country with a stolen card? mr. starr: sir, that would be very hard to say absolutely. i would say it would be very difficult. mr. hice: it would be very difficult because from what i understand, that has happened and there are times inspeblingt -- inspectors don't check the cards properly. so there certainly are occasions where, as the chairman brought up earlier,

they're used as flash cards. how often does an individual just flash the card and they're waved on into the country? mr. starr: sir, i can only tell you, i spent about three hours at a border crossing with the i. cremplet personnelwork the homeland security personnel that were there. i saw an incredibly dedicated group of people with very many dumetive stops where they're checking -- duplicative stops where they're checking the people and the cars. i can't tell you, because i'm with the state department, but i have to tell you, i was exceptionally impressed with how good they were there. mr. hice: did they know you were there? mr. starr: yes, they did. mr. hice: that probably has something to do with it. is it true that the c.b.p. was nly able to read the cards rfi d cards about 2/3 of the time? mr. starr: i'm sorry, sir, i don't know the answer to.

that mr. hice: it's my understanding that the cards don't always work properly. my question ultimately is coming to, if the cards don't always work properly, then the stolen cards could still be used. mr. harris, you're nodding your head. mr. harris: i didn't notice i was doing that. mr. hice: it appeared to me you were. mr. harris: it was an accident, i guess. i'm not a port of entry expert but i'll defer to my area of responsibility and what i'm focused on which is targeting the criminal network. i will tell you through investigative means, i won't talk about here, we're getting much better at identifying and routing -- rooting out those individuals who are using the border crossing cards for criminal purposes. we've identified, as the starting point in south texas, a little bit less than 1,000 individuals, properly about -- probably about half of those are border crossers and we'ristically removing the cards from those -- we're statistically removing the cards from those individuals when they cross the border.

with the technology that y'all have supported us with, we're much better at being able to identify the people who are using the cards for illicit purposes versus for legitimate reasons. mr. hice: so none of you have any awareness of the rfid cards not working. mr. starr: no, sir, i'm not aware that they're not work. i think we have a very high degree of confidence in the card and a very high success rate with that card. mr. hice: ok. do you have any idea how many or any of you for that matter, how many u.s. citizens have disappeared, have been kidnapped, abducted? mr. starr: i don't have the figures in front of me, no. mr. hice: who would have those figures? ms. saarnio: i have some figures from last year and this year. if we're talking about u.s. citizens. mr. hice: correct. ms. saarnio: we believe from the reports that we have that in 2014 we had a total case of

146 kidnappings reported. u.s. citizens. and in this year through september , we've had 64 cases reported. mr. hice: what about about other crimes? disappearances, abductions. ms. saarnio: they're also down in terms of violent crimes. we look at murder cases, last year we had -- there were about 100 murder cases reported, homicides involves american citizens. this year we're counting 89 so far today. mr. hice: is there any evidence of americans being targeted? ms. saarnio: not to my knowledge. mr. hice: ok. thank you, mr. chairman. i know my time is up. i would just like to add that i have put forth, mr. judd mentioned a while ago about the horrible crime committed in montana after a person was in your hands. i put forth a bill, track, which stands for tracking re-offending alien criminals,

specifically the sex offenders, i would urge my colleagues to check that out, h.r. 2793. and co-sponsor it. thank you, mr. chairman. mr. chaffetz: thank you. we don't have the necessarily proper panelists to deal with this part of it, but to follow up on what you said. one of the most infuriating parts of this are the people who are here illegally and commit crimes. only to be he released back into the interior of the united states of america. for fiscal year 2013 and 2014, the obama administration released roughly 66,000 criminal aliens. according to enforcement and emoval operations, there are 925,000 people with final orders to be removed from the country who have not -- they haven't been removed. there are people that are here illegally and then there are people that are here illegally and they commit a crime. and to not focus on those

people and make sure that they leave the country, and then when they do, to find that a huge percentage of them have to get picked up and come back across the border, i mean, how do you look people in the eye nd say, 925,000 people are here illegally, were ordered to leave the country and they did not. then you add on top of that the number of other criminals. they're in our possession. we have them. they were caught. they were convicted. and we said, go aa head. you're released. and we have horrific stories in just about every single state you can think about. and it's just horrendous. we're now pleased to recognize mr. cuellar who lives in texas. he's very dedicated on this issue. we appreciate him and glad to wave him in by unanimous consent. we'll now recognize him for five minutes. mr. cuellar: mr. chairman, thank you again for allowing me to be back in my former

committee. thank you and i thank the ranking member also. i want to thank the witnesses from the state department, thank you for the good job that you do. i know it's a difficult job. but we appreciate it. my good friend, robert harris, who used to live in laredo, moved to the northern part of my district of san antonio. always a good pleasure to see you. all the good work you did down there. mr. judd, all your men and women that worked for border patrol, i mean, that work along with you and robert al and all that, they do a good job. anybody on the border. my brother is a border -- well, a border sheriff down there on the border. he and i, we've lived there all of my life. like i said, i drink the water, i breathe the air down there. my family lives there. i go back every weekend, back to the border. so i do want to say thank you for all the work that y'all do. again, mr. chairman, i do know there are a couple of issues and there's some things that i would like to work with you as we talked a while ago.

i want to talk about danger pay. i think on danger pay, for the folks at the state department, i think we need to talk about it. i think that's something that i think congress will probably be involved in this issue. my understanding is you already let some of your employees know, you haven't let us know, but i can tell that you congress will probably have a say so on this. not that we want to micromanage, but i think it's part of at least the appropriations process will be involved. the issue of cost of construction. i understand, i've been to the one in mexico. i understand what they're doing over there. i think the cost of construction is extremely high. sometimes people, i think they charge us just because we're the federal government, they charge us more. i understand all the arguments about security and you got to do this. i understand all that. but i still think they're a little high. on the issues of closing the consulate, mr. chairman, i think we definitely disagree on

that. i don't think we ought to close the consulate. let me try to address, mr. chairman, if you allow me just a knew minutes beyond my five minutes. i think everybody's gone now except you and i. let me talk about the border. i want to go from the border and then go into mexico. if you look at the f.b.i. statistics, the border crime rate or the national crime rate is about 4.5 murders per 100,000. my hometown is about 1.5 murders per 100,000. you take the border crime rate, it's lower than the national crime rate. you've seen f.b.i. stats, murder, assaults, rapes, you know, name them. if you look at the top 10 cities with the highest murder rates in the u.s. for 100,000 population, none of them are on the border. none of them are on the border. if you look at one of the n.g.o.'s that looked at the top 50 cities with the highest homicides per 100,000, and if

you look at it, you have some federal -- this is from the year 2011, 2014, number one is honduras. you had acapulco, number three. 104 murders per 100,000. the number one was 171 murders per 100,000. then i go on, sorry to anybody, any of my colleagues, st. louis was number 19. and then you had detroit, number 22. then you had juarez. the numbers i have down are number 27. then you had laredo, number 34. then baltimore, number 40. and then go all the way to mexico on that. so, again, i would ask you to look at some of this. because there's always the reality and the perception. being on the border, i'll be the first one to say, mr. chairman, you know, there are problems like any other city. but it's not the way some people paint it to be. travel warnings, again, if we

go based on travel warnings, we pulled out the travel warnings at the state department. yes, i do see mexico here. but i do see so many other countries where there's travel warnings. and if we go on the basis of travel warnings, mr. chairman, i think we'd probably have to close consulates. there's 2 1/2 pages of chris that we probably have to include -- countries that we probably have to include, including one of the ones we're dealing with this week or maybe i just saw a note that we might postpone the israel issue. even the west bank-gaza, there's a travel warning there. so i can go on 2 1/2 pages of countries, if we happen to go on that. why do we need consulates on that in places like mexico? two reasons. one is the trade and the relations that we have. but the other one has to do with immigration. before i go on that, let me talk about mexico. before we -- in 2008 we worked

with an ambassador, president hope will son, who i become the ambassador of mexico. she's a great lady. i think you may know her. she would be a great ambassador to mexico. we were giving mexico $36 million a year while we give certain countries like $3.1 billion a year. rand here is mexico which is one of the greatest trading partners. mr. chairman, i think you highlighted some of the numbers. let me talk about laredo where you and blake, i'm sorry i couldn't be there, laredo, for example, handles about 40% of all the trade between the u.s. and mexico. 12,000 trailers a day that we have there. if you put the trucks, line them up up and down the border, on a day basis, all the trucks laredo on one day would go from laredo to south of san antonio. you put all the trucks on a monthly basis, going through

just laredo, it would go from laredo all the way to bolivia. if you go on the number of trucks that pass laredo on a year, they would almost wrap around the world twice. it gives you the half trillion of dollars that we have in trade every day, shows you why mexico is so important to us. by the way, one more for the folks who want to push mexico away. if an import comes in from china, it has about a 4% american parts on it. if something comes in from can day -- canada, it will have about 25% parts. but if something comes in from mexico, an import, it will have a 40% american parts with it. so that shows us the connection that we have with mexico. trade, let me go into immigration. of it.

robert, you and spoke a lot. mr. harris, we spoke a lot about the unaccompanied kids that came in last year. we've seen the numbers come down, mr. chairman. they've gone down, they're about half. but again, we can add more border patrol, i agree, adding more border patrol, you want to see more men and women in blue, which is the customs officers. but if you look at something that's happened, i've always said that we can't play defense on the 1-yard line, which is called the u.s. border. we spent about 18 -- $18 billion for border security across the nation. it we just play a little different defense on the 20-yard line, and last year the appropriations, we added -- i think we worked with -- we added about $80 million to help mexico secure the southern border with guatemala. we always talk about our southerner border but we ought to look at the southern border with mexico. it, from k at october, 2014, to april, 2015, mexico apprehended over 92,000 central american migrants.

20,000 more than we do in the u.s. 70,000. so if we -- if mexico would allow those 92,000, border patrol would have been dealing with those folks a lot more. so, mr. chairman, i do understand that we have issues in mexico. there's no if's and but's. we need to work with them. construction costs, i agree, i think they're a little high. we can work on that. closing the consulates, bad mistake. danger pay, mr. chairman, i talk about that, there are places that i think we need danger pay. to all the witnesses, thank you so much for all the good work u do gentlemanecognize the . mr.