so i'd ask you, what are you afraid of? why can't we have a more open discussion on legislation that didn't even go through the committees of jurisdiction? you ought to open this place up. a little debate is not a bad thing. a little openness is a good thing. i just also want to ask unanimous consent to return into the record the report by the subcommittee of oversight investigation democratic members and staff basically that refers the committee has received no evidence to support the allegation that he don't take it was procured without consent, altersanned parenthood the timing, method or procedure of abortion solely for the purposes of obtaining tissue, that they performed intact

dilation and evacuation in order to reserve fetal tissue for research. the investigation has revealed pps a required all affiliates to ensure with all state and federal laws, and all guidance requires affiliates to ensure fetal tissue is limited to actual cause. that heavily edited videos my friends keep referring to, it's just a cover for what really is behind all of this, and that is their attempt to criminalize an outlaw abortion in all circumstances. i yield three minutes to the gentleman from new york. >> without objection, the gentlewoman from new york is working nice -- recognize for three minutes. >> thank you madam speaker and thank you tonight colleague for yielding me that time. i rise today in defense of annned parenthood, organization that for nearly 100 years has been only accessible and affordable health care for

millions of americans, men and women. and yet again, we find ourselves debating about -- a bill that has no chance of becoming law, that attacks women and their health care decisions, and distracts from what we should be doing -- a budget to keep the government-funded. are rehashing old bills that we have seen many times before. these republican broadsides fly in the face of the millions of women across the country, and undermine the health and well-being of poor and rural women who in most cases, have no place else to turn, except planned parenthood for basic medical treatment. need i remind a chamber that one in five american women has relied on planned parenthood for care in her lifetime? as my colleague said, more than cervicaleventive care,

cancer screening, hiv counseling, breast cancer screenings. there is no other medical procedure so furiously debated. do we spend years debating whether men can get mastectomy's during reproductive -- vasectomy during reproductive years? delete threaten to shut down the government over access to viagra? no, we don't. an e-mail i received from a local planned parenthood affiliate about a woman who was 19 years old and went to planned parenthood to get a prescription for birth control. during a routine screening, the doctor found a cluster of abnormal cells that could have turned into life-threatening cancer. the woman wrote, early detection and treatment allowed me later in life to have a healthy baby who was the light of my life. planned parenthood is a provider i know and trust.

why should politicians tell anyone whether they can or cannot go for care? planned parenthood was there for me when i needed affordable hell it -- quality health care and i don't know what i would have done without their services. they say.at in spite of these pleas, the republicans continue attacking women's health. i would think they would know co-opting the most personal decisions of a woman's lifetime. -- legislatures across the country, including this one, waste valuable time pretending to be doctors instead of doing their job. spontaneously not become medical professionals upon elections. these constitutionally protected decisions are for women with the advice of their doctors, family, anyone she wants to. had to say to a young man once facing awful decisions, as he waits to find out what the decision would be, i would not

want him to say -- may have 30 seconds more? when terrible decisions are to be made between medical personnel and the patient, i don't want anybody to have to becauseave to wait, congress has the last word in whether we live or die. yield back the balance of my time. >> the gentleman from massachusetts reserves, the gentlelady from north carolina is recognized. the gentleman from north carolina is recognized for one minute. >> madam speaker, this debate is not any one organization that receives tax dollars. this is not about republicans versus democrats. it is not about pro-life versus pro-choice. this issue is about defending the most vulnerable among us. it is about a fundamental question, will we allow and give the people's money to an

organization that takes a tiny baby outside the womb with a beating heart, which lungs that function, and take a scalpel and cut open the head so that the brain can be extracted and sold for profit? that is gruesome, but watch the video. say, let'soing to suspend funding to this organization while we investigate? that is a reasonable position. any organization that receives beingl funds that is investigated for breaking the law, ought to have funds suspended. my wife and i are expecting our first child in a matter of days, so this is an issue personal to me. let'sd ask my colleagues, support this legislation and make sure that no baby is ever again cut into pieces and sold for scrap parts in this country. >> the german's time has expired. the gentlelady reserves, gentlemen from massachusetts is recognized. i yield one minute to the

gentlewoman from california. the gentleman from california has recognized for one minute. thank you. i rise in strong opposition to the rule and to stand with millions of american women and men receiving essential health services from planned parenthood. these attacks threatened access to health care across the country. particularly for low income women and men, who already face barriers to access. for many of our nations plannedved population, parenthood is the only source for vital services such as contraceptive services and counseling, and breast and cervical cancer screening. if the majority succeeds in an effort to defund planned parenthood, millions of americans would be stripped of access to health care creating hardships for american families. majoritiesing is the

willingness to shut down the government in order to deny health care to millions of women. women's health should not be used as a bargaining chip for political maneuvering. i urge my colleagues to put aside partisanship. by purposely misleading videos. attacking planned parenthood is a dangerous distraction. i yield back. click the gentlelady from north carolina is recognized. >> i yield one minute to the gentlewoman from utah. thank you, madam speaker. i rise in support of hr 3134 to defund planned parenthood, and 3504, which requires a beef born alive during abortions get the same medical treatment as any other child. it is crucial that we stand for those who cannot speak for themselves, the unborn. these bills are critical to cartel the horrific wreck this

that include harvesting fetal tissue, while babies are still alive. we as americans value human life. we are fighting terrorists because we value the lives of people. fighting for the unborn is no different. i demand a full investigation into planned parenthood's donation into fetal tissue and the removal of taxpayer funding for the organization. my colleagues will try to distract, distort and divide us into thinking this is all about women's health issues. this is in fact about saving american lives. let me remind my colleagues that black americans make up 12% of the population, and the fetuses being aborted make up 78% of who is being aborted. to protect life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. i know my job, please do yours. said the gentleman from massachusetts is recognized.

>> yield one minute to the gentleman from vermont. from vermont is recognized for one minute. >> there are two issues very contentious. abortion and fetal research. i support the right of a woman to choose, i support medical research that is legal under the law so we can get curious to diseases like alzheimer's and diabetes. i also respect those who disagree with me. but this bill is terrible. here's why. it is unfair to women who are not part of this debate, whose access to planned parenthood is about getting preventative health care. 16,000 women in our state. the second reason, this bill is destructive to the institution we represent. here is how it is designed. take the money away, then investigate. in a fair society, we do it the opposite way. second, it eliminates access to care to innocent people who have nothing to do with this.

as i mentioned, 16,000 in vermont. it is a prelude to the shutdown, resorting to tactics that unless you get your way, we are shutting down the entire government. and also it is part of the dump the speaker campaign, as though resistspeaker recess -- a shutdown, his doubts should be taken away. bad for women, bad for the institution. i yield back. i yield one minute to the gentleman from georgia. thank you. madam speaker, i stand said a -- today in support of the innocent and on board. -- unborn. i think now is the time for congress to stand up for those who cannot defend themselves heard the video exposes the appalling acts. on parre despicable acts with the sickest of criminals behind bars, and that is where these people belong, in prison behind bars.

these videos have given everyone andde into the inexcusable horrific culture at planned parenthood. taxpayer funds should never be used to offset the cost of providing abortions and it is except -- unacceptable when these illegal and horrific practices like selling and trafficking of unborn fetal tissue are happening. as a father and grandfather i believe we should seek justice for these crimes. i urge federal law enforcement to execute a full criminal investigation into the alleged actions by planned parenthood. these two bills being debated hired urge my colleagues to support this support life.d madam speaker, i yield the remainder of my time. speaker, it is my privilege to yield one minute to the gentleman from michigan. >> thank you madam speaker.

my friend for yielding good let's be clear, this is not a debate about abortion. there are different points of view on that question, but it is a settled question by the u.s. supreme court. those who want to make this about something that it is not need to look at the legislation they are supporting. this is about whether or not families have access through planned parenthood, to preventative health care, to life-saving cancer screenings, to basic health care that ought to be available in every possible way. this bill would have an extreme and devastating impact on access to those fundamental services that planned parenthood provides. here we are, seven legislative days before this government shuts down, and what is he --upying the floor preoccupying the floor? and ideological debate, that everyone acknowledges will not become law.

everyone acknowledges it will not become law, but we are taking time to pander to some of the voices that simply oppose women's health care choices, instead of taking up the questions that the american people sent us here to do. where is the budget? negotiations?et blurs the discussion about roads and bridges? i yield back. >> the gentleman reserves. gentlelady from north carolina. >> i yield one minute to the gentlewoman from alabama. >> thank you mr. speaker. no taxpayers should be forced to an organization that supports more than 350,000 unborn baby every year. this is a commonsense truth that even pro-abortion activists have a hard time arguing. changed the argument. they pretend plan hit parenthood

is the only place low income women can get help here -- health care. taking away taxpayer funding mean denying women access to health care they say. that is untrue, anybody spreading that should be ashamed. there are more than 13,000 federally qualified and rural health care offering low health -- low cost health care to women. they outnumber planned parenthood clinics 20 21. if this was about making sure women had access to health care, we can all agree supporting these community health centers is the right thing to do. but that is not what this is about. community health centers don't perform abortions. planned parenthood does. that is what this is about. about preserving a pipeline of funding to the nations largest abortion provider. we all got this. let's drop the phony women's health charade. the chair recognizes the

gentleman from massachusetts. >> one minute to the gentlewoman from -- gentleman from connecticut. >-- gentlewoman, excuse me. i rise in opposition to this rule and the underlying bill. the majority have declared war on the health and well-being of millions of women. planned parenthood serves 2.7 million americans every year, with life-saving services, like pap tests, breast exams, screening for sexually transmitted infections, and for many low income families, planned parenthood is their only option. the majority claims that other clinics can pick up the slack, but listen to doctors, the president of the american congress of ob/gyn, and i quote, planned parenthood, if it went away, there are a good number of patients just in my service area

that no longer will have a doctor. if they start calling my office, it is going to be, we could take you, but it might be two or three months down the road. if they call other places, it might be, we can't even take you. this bill creates chaos. in that chaos, people's lives will be put at risk. this bill is spiteful, it is mean-spirited, and it is cruel. it tells millions, forget your health, you can just died. i urge my colleagues to vote against this bill. the gentleman reserves, the gentlewoman from north carolina's recognized. you madam speaker. there are many more options for women's health care than the discredited abortion provider planned parenthood. only approximately 665 clinics, federally qualified health centers and rural health

provide over 13,000 publicly supported locations, providing alternatives for women's health care. this means there are 20 federally funded comprehensive one clinics for every planned parenthood. this bill does not change the availability of funds for women's health. it simply establishes a safeguard so the nations largest abortion chain is not the one providing such services. i yield one minute to the gentleman from georgia. thank you madam speaker. there comes a time when we must face that you -- the truth, regardless of how offensive or disgusting. as much as we dislike where we are, and the shame of harvesting of baby parts has brought on the nation, we are the ones who must face the truth and take action. stateho oppose this bill

that defending this or other organizations will not completely stop the perfect act, and that may be true. that our involvement will work with anti-semitism, no it didn't. did our government go with -- how many innocent lives were spared because we did take action? the question before us is not whether actions will stop this evil, but if this government will continue to find it, thinking it and tolerate it. for years, we thought about the -- william fought against the evil of slavery. he said, you may choose to look the other way, but you can never say you did not know. if we know the truth, which we do, and decide not to respond, we will impart share the blame, the responsibility, and the judgment. comment from massachusetts is recognized. >> i yield to the gentlewoman from new york here it --.

rise in opposition. mr. speaker, these bills today are the direct result of a series of videos that have been found to be purposefully misleading, alleging misdeeds that never happened, that will result in the punishment of millions of women who have absolutely nothing to do with it. in many areas of this country, planned parenthood clinics are one of the few affordable health care options for women. during the senate debate on defunding, a letter was sntroduced from california' community health center, stating that the funding the planned parenthood clinics would place untenable stress on the community health care providers. but our republican colleagues are indifferent to the experts. truth, as usual, is the first casualty when they wage their cultural wars. all that matters is the theater, ki theater of kabu

ritualized outrage. i urge my colleagues to vote no. >> i yield six minutes to the gentleman from new jersey. a tremendous leader for life, and a great leader in this congress for yielding. you said we are wasting our time, and pandering. i would like to ask, have you watched the videos? >> yes. >> you have? it is disappointing then, that you are not moved to compassion inhumanityrrible displayed on those videos by the planned parenthood personnel. human dismemberment is a painful and absolutely frightening way for anyone to die, let him

planned parenthood clinics across the country, such violence against children is commonplace. subsidized by half $1 billion annually, planned parenthood kills a baby every two minutes, snuffing out the lives of over 7 million infants since 1973. a staggering loss of life. videosause of undercover by the center for medical progress, we know planned parenthood is also trafficking in baby parts, turning babies into human guinea pigs, while making the abortion industry even richer than before. although much of the media continues to ignore this scandal, planned parenthood is meticulously crafting a facade of care and compassion, has been shredded. caught on tape, and parents it's -- planned parenthood's top leadership show callus's regard

for children's lives, while gleefully calculating the financial gains. which begs the question, do americans really know what horrors are done to children in planned parenthood clinics? have congressional colleagues, has president obama watched the videos yet? in one clip, dr. deborah, senior director of land parenthood and a late-term abortionist herself says, we have been very good at getting heart, lungs, liver, because we know that i'm not going to crush that part. i'm going to crush below, i'm going to crush above, and see if i can get it all in tact. i would say a lot of people want liver, and for that people -- reason, most providers will do this under ultrasound guidance they areill know where putting therefore sets. in other words, crushed the baby

to death, but do it in a way that preserves oregon's and body -- organs and body parts for sale. the medical directors council president appears on the video nonchalantly talking about utilizing less crunchy abortion methods, to preserve body parts. regarding the price tag, she says, let me figure out what others are getting, and if this is in the ballpark, it is fine. if it is low, we can bump it up. i want a lamborghini, she says. planned parenthood national director for the consortium of abortion providers says, we are just trying to figure out as an how we are going to manage renumeration because the headlines would be a disaster. concern for making money and avoiding bad press, no concern whatsoever for the child

victims. a biotech company that partners with land parenthood says some women undergoing did not give consent for the body parts to be trafficked tiered says, --. a way of getting more specimens. it is just taking advantage of the opportunity. also says how her supervisor told her to cut through the face of a baby in order to get brain tissue. she said, she gave me the scissors and told me i had to cut down the middle of the face. i can't even describe what that feels like, she says on tape. hr 3134 made an order under the rule, authored by an extraordinarily caring and compassionate member of congress, diane black, raises a

year-long moratorium on funding for planned parenthood, and redirects withheld moneys to other facilities that provide women's health. this is also brought into sharp focus that some babies actually survived abortions. the vice president and medical director of planned parenthood in the rocky mountains comes -- sometimes, the babies are intact. the fetus just fell out, she says. the baby fell out, what happens to that baby? tragically, we know what happens. they are killed and some of their organs are still in. the abortion survivors simply says any child who survives an abortion must be given the same care as any other premature baby born at

this same this -- gestational age. of bill is a protection act 2002 authored by steve savitt, adding enforcement prohibitions. i would remind my colleagues it was two years ago the infamous philadelphia abortionist was convicted of killing children, as well as women in his clinic, but children who were born alive after an attempted abortion. the grand jury report describes , he had a simple solution for unwanted babies. he killed them. he didn't call it that, he called it ensuring fetal demise. that way, -- >> gentleman's time is expired. the gentleman from massachusetts is recognized. >> let me just make three fax. we know these videos have been selectively edited.

of whatfor fact 90% planned parenthood does is preventative care, including screenings for cervical cancer, nothing to do with abortion. we know for a fact because it is law, no tax. moneys can be used for abortion. one minute to the gentlewoman from oregon. >> thank you for yielding. i rise in opposition to the rule and underlying bill. the closed rule makes misguided legislation that would seriously limit access to crucial healthcare services like cancer screenings, and limit access to country -- contraception that would prevent unwanted pregnancies. we are talking about defunding planned parenthood? how counterproductive. in my home state, more than 72,000 patients were served by planned parenthood in 2013 alone. we are talking about real women and men who received compassionate, preventative care.

i have heard from oregonians like stacy, who got a life-saving cancer screening when she had no insurance. it is unfortunate the house is using its limited time to debate legislation that harms women,, but it is downright irresponsible to even consider shutting down the government over access to vital services. there is no evidence planned parenthood has broken any laws. we have seen proposals like this before. it is time to and these attacks constitutional reproductive rights. i urge my colleagues to reject this rule and other legislation that limits access to vital healthcare services. gentlewoman from north carolina. >> my colleagues have asked for an investigation into the center for medical progress which released these videos. they do not receive half the billion in taxpayer dollars every year.

planned parenthood does. it is the role of congress to exercise oversight on those who receive taxpayer dollars. it is also appropriate for congress to cease funding a scandal ridden organization. it is extremely interesting >> i reserve my downtime. -- my amount of time. minute. yield one >> the gentleman from texas is

recognized for one minute. greg's i think -- >> i would not be here on the floor to lend suspension to be fake beliefs of anyone, from what we have been hearing from our friends, this is nothing but a politically charged debate, and an undermining of women's health care. we made it very clear that robie way does the law of the land -- ro versus wave --. is the long length. provides forthood 378,000 cap fair test -- pap smear test. as it relates to the fetal tissue, we know that there are laws in place that do not allow the cell -- sale of such. we also know that the research has generated final cord and

neurologic -- neurological research and cures. the law of the land is roe v wade. ask is a political fight, the person who don't these videos. he stole the identity of his high school classmate to do this. that shows you it is a political effort. >> the gentlewoman from north carolina is recognized. >> i reserve. >> she reserves. ask the gentleman from north carolina how many speakers she has? >> we were expecting one where speaker, we were trying to accommodate, however the gentleman is prepared those, then we will do our best to do that -- that also. >> i will close for our side.

first of all, madam speaker, i will urge my colleagues to defeat the previous question. legislation to treat wildfires like similar natural disasters and eliminate the need to transfer funds from forest management programs for fire suppression. it is time to make commonsense changes to the federal wildfire budget. for unanimous consent. speaker, the bills -- the rule will make in order that are before us today, these bills and others, these are ongoing -- are ahat a part part of the republican drumbeat for a shutdown. it is not enough to attack women's health, republicans are now ready to take down the entire government. as mentioned in my opening

statement, the facts are the facts. i know for some of my colleagues, they are inconvenient and they would like to avoid talking about them. the reality is these videos that my colleagues are referring to have been selectively edited. we also know that 90% of what planned parenthood does is prevented it -- preventive it is care. important life-saving procedures that benefit women and they do preventative care that benefits men as well. it is also important for the colleagues to realize there are no federal funds and taxpayer dollars they go to fund abortions. that is illegal. down these important preventative health care services, to advance this addition -- agenda that my colleagues have which is to criminalize abortion under all

circumstances, including many of my colleagues advocating no exceptions, even for rate -- rape were incensed. a younger would be a criminal if she had an abortion. this is about taking away a woman's right to choose. planned parenthood happens to be gone -- be the upon. i watched the republican debate last night, it was quite entertaining. heard donald trump, marco rubio, and ted cruz say they would of the open to putting civil rights activist rosa parks on a $10 bill. republicans might be surprised to learn that rosa parks sat on the national board of planned parenthood federation of america , the organization that my republican friends, including the people who invoked her let -- name last night now are trying to defund. this is about preserving access to good, quality health care.

the fact thatt this has become such a political wedge issue. i get it. i know where my colleagues come from. timeyou would take up the of this house to do this, which the senate will not take up, which the president will not sign even if they did, at a time when we have six days left before the federal government shuts down, i do not know what my colleagues are thinking. part of what your job is is to keep the government running. instead of doing that, if we are doing these right-wing message bills that do not even go , thath regular order committees do not have a chance to consider when every member -- you cannot amend this stuff. this whole process is disgraceful. we need to get our priorities in order here. we have to protect women's health care services. we are not to be defunding an

organization like planned parenthood which does good work all across this country. we should be bringing a bill to the floor to keep his government running. with that, madam speaker, i urge my colleagues to vote no. i yield back. >> the gentleman's time has expired. the gentleman from north carolina is recognized. >> thank you, madam speaker. last evening when i spoke on this legislation in the rules committee i mentioned this is an emotional issue for those of us who value life so much. one of my colleagues has already spoken to the fundamental issue of life. never -- wet is always should have time to talk about our declaration of independence and constitution. particularly as it relates to this issue, it is the

declaration of independence we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights among these are life, liberty, and a pursuit of happiness. rights secure these governments are instituted among men. madam speaker, that is what we are talking about here today. what ourlking about government should be doing in that the of knowing most vulnerable among us are , and thatroyed without life there is nothing else. things areew

colleagues keep saying, there are things that are more important for us to be debating today. purporteaker, i would that there are few things more important than this debate over the trafficking of hearts and other body parts of unborn children, some of whom may have been born alive. my colleagues on the other side of the aisle claim that this legislation is part of a war on women. in reality it is designed to stop the war on children that is going on in abortion facilities across this country. large majorities of americans believe their tax dollars should not be funding a merchant -- abortions. they felt this way even before learning that during those abortions children are dismembered and sold piece by piece. unfair -- unfathomable

stoppingave to debate the provisions of tax dollars to organizations participating in such activities. it is also unbelievable that we do not immediately passed by unanimous consent legislation ensuring that children born alive, breathing and crying, like each of us was on our first day outside of the whim -- whim, deserve if a medical care that any child born in a hospital would receive. what is heartening in the face of this debate is the principle that the truth always comes out. can no longer hide in the dark back rooms of their facilities and so unborn children piece by piece under an illusion that no one will ever know their crimes.

today and he videos that have been released to have shattered that darkness and expose the callousness of the abortion industry towards life, and the consequences of expect -- accepting abortion on demand as acceptable. both of these bills to defund planned parenthood of 2015 and the born alive abortion survivors protection act contained common sense provisions addressing the barbaric actions that have come to light in the abortion industry. i commend the underlying bills in this role providing for their consideration for all of my colleagues for this -- support. announcer: a signature feature of the tv is all-day coverage of book fairs and festivals from across the country, with top, nonfiction authors. in september we are in new york for the brooklyn book festival held rating of sincere. -- 10th year.

in october we have the nashville festival. then we have the austan, texas festival. at the end of the month, we have the wisconsin book festival in medicine -- medicine. and we have the boston book festival. in november we have the portland, oregon word stock. following that is the national book awards in new york city. we are in florida for the miami book fair international. those are some of the fairs and festivals this fall on c-span twos book to be. -- tv. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015] justin trudeau, stephen harper, and tamil care answered

questions on the economy and their economic platforms. >> my biggest concern about the community and economy-- >> we continue to focus on the oil and gas sector. >> i will be able to afford properties in the city i want to live in. >> i'm worried about adequate retirement income. >> stable opportunities for employment for young people. >> getting canada off oil. >> the economy is the most critical ballot bust issue in the election, making it the clear choice for the sole topic of the globe and mail's 2015

leaders debate. >> get the economy on track. >> turn this economy around. >> if businesses were able to employ young people on a full-time basis with meaningful living wages, what are you going to do to help those companies remain competitive in a global economy? >> the baby boomers, the largest group isenching -- age transitioning into retirement. >> given the widening gap between the wealthy and the rest of us, what specific measures will your government take to address this important issue? >> i grew up thinking the best investment you can make is in property. my parents did it, my grandparents did it, and now i am not able to. >> this would be a perfect time to make bold investments in our collective future. >> now, please welcome tonight's debate moderator, globe and mail editor and chief david ones

like-- ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the globe and mail debate on the economy. we are coming to you live from calgary with a studio audience. they join you, our viewing audience, the next 90 minutes as we discussed the key issues of this 2015 campaign. let's welcome the three party leaders here tonight. from the conservative party, stephen harper. from the new democratic party, thomas mulcair. and from the liberal party, just introduced. -- justin trudeau. [applause] this election is about the economy. all parties, i think, can at least agree with that. with the country struggling to find its economic mojo, we have top questions for leaders this evening. the first half deals with six topics -- jobs, energy and the

environment, infrastructure, immigration, housing, and taxation. each area will begin with the question from me to one of the three leaders with a follow-up question. i will then push the question to a second leader for a quick answer before an open for debate. none of the three leaders has advanced knowledge of the questions. the order of speaking and positions on the stage were randomly drawn with party representatives. that's the housekeeping. let's begin. the reason we are here tonight is to come to grips with this country's challenges. the first question goes to you, mr. harper. the question is on jobs. structural,cing rather than cyclical change. do you have a jobs plan for industry, beyond taking things out of the ground? p.m. harper: absolutely david.

if you don't mind, let me begin saying because we are in a southern alberta, i want to take a moment to give my condolences to the bloodshed in the dunbar families, on the terrible deaths of haley into terry. these were obviously senseless acts. our thoughts and prayers are with those families. approach isid, our multifaceted. there are several things we are doing. obviously the centerpiece of a plan is to make sure -- we are making practical investments that are affordable, that we can do while keeping our taxes down and keeping our budget balanced. for instance, particular interventions into the labor market to make sure we are training people for the available jobs, orienting immigration policies that way, encouraging innovation in manufacturing, opening up trade markets. we signed more trade agreements than ever before. the core to protecting our economy is making sure that our

budgets remain balanced. host: your dream of being an energy superpower has not been realized. -- >> for those worried about jobs of the future, what comes next? p.m. harper: i think i just laid out exactly where we are going? we are living in a very challenged global economy. we have enormous economic instability. through it all, the canadian economy has created a large number of jobs. 1.3 million net new jobs since the end of the global financial crisis. most eventful time in the private sector. in good wage industries. incomes have been risings. there are challenges and we can do more. the essence of our plan is making sure that we make investments. the other parties are trying to tell us they will deal with the challenges of our economy, our label market, by raising taxes and running deficits define it vastly increasing amount of spending. that is not the way to protect our economy in this environment.

the way to protect our economy is to make specific investments that will help build our labor force, infrastructure, manufacturing and other resource industries, while at the same time, making sure we're keeping our taxes down and budget balanced. host: that is mr. harper's answer. to mr. mulcair we go. jobs, you need to do more surely than support the manufacturing sector. what is your jobs plan? m.p. mulcair: i was disappointed the prime minister was able to go beyond resource extraction. mr. harper put all of his eggs into one basket and drop to the basket. thousands of jobs lost on his canadians out of a job compared to 2008. jobs, to manufacturing work on innovation. we want to drop the taxes of canada's small and medium-size businesses. they create a percent of new

jobs in this country. -- they create 80% of new jobs. making sure that you can balance your work life and family life is important to the ndp. that is why one of our key points is to make sure we bring in quality, affordable childcare across canada, at most $15 a day. once it's fully ramped up, it will be one million over the childcare spaces across the country. that will be good for the country, but also for women, who make tough sacrifices-- host: mr. trudeau, can you please lead this part of the debate? m.p. trudeau: thank you david, it's great to be in calgary tonight. i want to start with a few questions. are you better off now than you were 10 years ago when stephen harper became prime minister? is our country better off? do you have better job prospects? do you have confidence that your kids have a brighter future? i've spent a long time talking with thousands of canadians across this country. and mr. harper may not see what

is going on. but i do. i know that canadians are worried about their jobs, and that is what this election is about. their jobs in the jobs our kids are going to have. that is why, we have a strong and clear plan to invest in the middle class, to grow the economy, give it a kickstart it needs, and put more money in canadian's pockets. it starts with actually raising taxes on the wealthiest 1% so we can lower them for the middle class. it starts with investing in canada once again, inroads, in clean water, in transit, in jobs. when we talk about that investment, we are very clear -- we are going to run three modest deficits in order to pay for it. those of the kinds of investments mr. harper hasn't made for 10 years. if you think this economy is doing great, that mr. harper is your guy. if you need a change, the

liberal party has a plan. p.m. harper: look, i never said things are great. i said we are living in a very unstable global economic environment. i would ask people at home the following. in the last 10 years, where would you rather have been in all this global economic instability rather than canada? looking forward, where would you rather be than canada? these of the key questions. proposes permanent deficits. he is against our cuts to small businesses. the reason he is opposed is he said, a large percentage of small businesses are just wealthy people avoiding taxes. mr. trudeau, they are the backbone of the middle class and it's the backbone of the canadian economy-- m.p. trudeau: mr. harper, you know full well-- you know full well that the liberal party plan is to drop small business taxes from 11% to 9%. he's just playing politics. we have a plan, not only to

encourage small businesses, but to invest in what small businesses need. like reliable transportation, like a growing economy. mr. harper has not only the worst growth record on jobs, worst job creation record since world war ii, he has the worst record on economic growth since the great depression. we need to grow its economy. host: mr. mulcair, you are hearing a good ding dong, between these two. where do you lie? m.p. mulcair: i'm going to ring their bell. dumprudeau is planning to millions of dollars in debt on the backs of generations. mr. harper wants to hit the snooze button while mr. trudeau wants to hit the perfect. -- hit the panic button. without a cost plan yesterday, which is reliable and sustainable.

neither of these numbers will do the same. out a cost plan. these talk: both of about cutting taxes for small businesses. what they also propose, and small businesses notice around the country, vapor hikes to people taxes. -- they hikes to taxes. -- to payroll taxes that are 10 times bigger than the tax cuts they are promising small businesses. that is why the canadian federation of small business and other experts today said that mr. mulcair's tax increases will cost at least 250,000 jobs. you don't protect our economy and move it forward-- m.p. trudeau: mr. harper has demonstrated once again. that he is missing canadians need support.

-- once again that he is missing the point. whyjust our taxes, -- pensions are not taxes, they don't get that back. mulcair needs to hit the wake-up call. [indiscernible] host: let's have mr. harper quickly respond in a sentence. m.p. mulcair: we have given all kind of tax incentives for people to save. m.p. trudeau: know they are not. p.m. harper: workers and small employers do not want these tax hikes. they are coming right out of the paychecks. $1000 from the liberal party proposal of someone making $60,000. this comes from people putting food-- host: mr. mulcair. m.p. mulcair: that was a really long sentence, david. the average canadian knows that

it can plan is necessary. , as far as mr. harper is concerned it's a tax. i am tired of watching successive liberal and conservative governments don't these massive ecological, economic, and social debts on the back-- host: that brings us some relief to the end of the first question. we move on to the second topic -- energy and the environment. this question goes to mr. mulcair. in the last campaign, the ndp cost of $1 billion on its carbon pricing policy. what is your current proposal, and what would the cost be for carbon emissions? m.p. mulcair: thank you very much. we know that i dynamic and innovative energy sector is crucial for canada for the years to come. we also know that canada has international obligations to follow through on. the liberals signed kyoto with no plan to respected, that is

why they went on to have one of the worst records for greenhouse gas production. simply, stephen -- shamefully, stephen harper was the only country to withdraw from the kyoto protocol. we have always believed the best way to ensure a reduction in greenhouse gases is what is called the cap and trade system. canada and the u.s. had a successful model to reduce so2 when it was causing acid rain on our forests. it can work before and it can work again. everyone has to understand there are tens of thousands of jobs, especially here in alberta, that rely on that sector. we have to develop our resources responsibly and sustainably, which is what i did when i was mr.. -- when i was minister. host: what is the costing for your cap and trade proposal? it is a carbon tax like british colombia? what with the tax be? m.p. mulcair: i don't think you

can guarantee a reduction with a carbon tax. although there is more information available. a cap and trade system can guarantee reduction. these are basic possibles of sustainable develop it. you cannot allow people to use-- host: without not create revenue hemorrhaging in alberta? m.p. mulcair: no, that is not what happened when we brought in the cap and trade system. you can make sure that you are reinvesting in green energy technologies around the world. that will be $5 trillion spent on green energy technologies in the next five years. unfortunately, canada won't even be part of it because the government has taken an approach to put its resources in other places. we have to add jobs here in canada. >> is it going to be more than 21 billion or less? m.p. mulcair: that is proposed by the cap and trade system- host: let's move to mr.

trudeau. for your plan, it looks like a lot of it is left to promises. how do you lead the country, perhaps going to the human climate conference later this year without a canadian policy? m.p. trudeau: we have a canadian policy, and it's one that recognizes it. for 10 years under harper with no leadership under the environment, provinces have moved forward. our for biggest provinces -- four biggest provinces have put taxes on carbon. the idea of imposing a bureaucracy out of ottawa, a cap and trade system on provinces like british columbia, that have already moved forward with a world-renowned carbon tax that is working for them, is actually a completely nonsensical plan. we are committed to working with the provinces to reduce emissions. to encourage them to hit the target needed so that we can contribute once again to

reducing emissions. we will go to paris for the climate change conference with all premieres to talk about how we're going to meet that responsibility we collectively share on this planet to prevent a to degree increase in global temperature. host: i think we are hearing a lot of skating. mr. harper, you start off the open floor. p.m. harper: this is the first government in canadian history that was able to see a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions, while at the same time cd economy grow. we didn't do that through carbon tax schemes. principally because carbon taxes are not about reducing emissions, they are about raising revenue for the government. in one form or another, that is what the other parties are opposing. we have been moving sector by sector when we actually know the cost in effect in new regulations and reducing emissions before we actually do it. it's not just left to chance.

i want to address the other half of the statement in the energy sector. it's been a very important driver of the canadian economy. it's obviously having a significant downturn because of the fall of energy prices. that sector needs the government that is on its side. we want to see the sector grow and develop. [indiscernible] m.p. mulcair: under stephen harper's stewardship, we have not built one pipeline, and it's easy to understand why. we have a whole series of environmental laws. we don't have a credible environmental assessment process left in this country. he thought he was hoping companies -- helping companies by destroying that legislation. i lowered greenhouse gas production in our province every year. it can be done. we brought an overarching develop legislation, the toughest in north america. we changed the charter of rights to include the right to live in a clean environment. mr. harper sees the environment

and economy as polar opposites. everybody in canada knows you have to work on both at the same time. p.m. harper: which is why we have done both. mulcair, you are the only one who is going to another country and to argue against-- [indiscernible] host: let mr. trudeau. m.p. mulcair: 40,000 jobs will be exported to the keystone xl. i want to create those 40,000 jobs in canada. let's add value to our national resources here. that is the way to sustain read of element. -- sustain redevelopment. [indiscernible] m.p. trudeau: i was living in quebec at that time, and i would never he was -- that he was proposing bulk water exports. you gave a speech on it.

look at your own record. continues to pretend that there is a choice between environment and economy. he chooses to say that you cannot build a strong economy if you are protecting the environment. felthas been his failure, right here in calgary. he talks about being best friend that calgary and alberta has ever had. he has not gotten pipelines built. he has made the oilsands in international via. with friends like stephen harper, alberta doesn't need enemies. host: when is the costing of your plan. mr. mulcair first. m.p. mulcair: our plan includes ringing overarching -- bringing in overarching legislation that can provide action when a country is trying to pollute the environment. mr. harper talks a good game on international trade deals.

he's done everything in his power to stop the north american free trade agreement from even measuring pollution going into the environment. that is his track record. we will enforce overarching sustainable develop it, applying it fairly and equally to everyone. canadians will know we will stop leaving this massive ecological debt on the backs of future generations. m.p. trudeau: you asked about costing. we will move forward with pricing and carbon and injuring to reduce greenhouse gases in a responsible way. the liberal party is committed to investing $20 billion over 10 years in greener infrastructure. floodplain mitigation in calgary and places across the country. investing in clean jobs, making sure we are moving towards renewable energy. yes, we need to get our resources to market. it's one of the fundamental responsibilities of a prime minister. to do that, we need to move in a responsible way that understands the future we are leading to our kids. host: mr. harper?

p.m. harper: we are investing about $1 billion a year in green energy efficiency technology. what we are not doing is imposing costs among consumers. we are in a fragile economy. we hear the same old story from the ndp, we will fix this somehow through raising taxes. in their platform yesterday, they put in a bunch of tax increases for the energy and mining sector. the same story we had in alberta when the ndp came to office, we somehow fix our problems to raising taxes. now i see treat people getting higher individual tax bills. people getting laid off because their employers are paying higher taxes. [indiscernible] m.p. mulcair: i will drop canada's corporate taxes by billions of dollars--if that is so good, why did we lose some any jobs?

[indiscernible] host: we now move to the third topic, which is infrastructure. this goes to mr. trudeau. are you committed to taking us into deficit to fund your deficit -- to fund your infrastructure plan? spending money is easy promise. what does success look like? m.p. trudeau:m.p. trudeau: canadians understand that when you want to buy a new home or renovate your existing home, you take out a bank loan. you know that you can invest in your future because that is what confident, optimistic countries do. we invest in our future. right now, mr. harper thinks that the investments he's made over the past 10 years are enough. they are not. he has had the worst job creation rate since world war ii. he is the worst growth rate of any prime minister since the great depression. we need to create transit that canadians need. we need to do it right now. mr. mulcair talks about putting

things off for 3-5-20 years. we are the only party that has said yes, we will run three modest deficits, because it's time to invest in canada once again. that is why we work with municipalities and provinces to identify the necessary projects and get them built. we will invest in the future of our country. host: mr. trudeau, he said you would create a new interceptor bank. that is dependent upon canada's investing funds. they have not done that because projects have been too small. what if they don't sign up? m.p. trudeau: we are proposing a new in for structure bank that will help provinces and municipalities borrow at the advantageous rate that the federal government has. yes, we are, as a separate initiative, looking to pension funds in canada. to do that, we need a much more robust partner in the federal government. for a decade now, mr. harper has

under invested in our infrastructure. while he is running fiscal deficits, has also been increasing are in the structure deficit. the fact is canadians stuck in traffic on the gardener or on the deerfoot or elsewhere across the country know that we need a plan that is going to tackle transit and roads right now. not a decade from now like mr. mulcair, and not at all, like mr. harper has been doing. that is what our plan is all about. that is why i'm going to invest in the future of our country. host: mr. haper, is mr. trudeau onto something? p.m. harper: absolutely not. [laughter] hear of the facts. -- here are the facts. are government is putting 15 times more than the last full-year of liberal government. of the decade, our economic action has been to create jobs and growth, have some $80

billion, in unprecedented amount of money into infrastructure across the country. of course the easiest thing to do is to come along and say, let's just spent more. we have managed to do this without raising your taxes and without borrowing anything as we move forward. mr. trudeau comes and says, let's spend more and run a deficit. running a deficit is not the kind of protection our economy needs. we are in an unstable global economy. we managed to return to a balanced budget for the second year, when many countries haven't done so. that's an asset we should continue to pursue. we don't need to spend more just for the sake of being able to say-- host: was moved to the open floor. m.p. mulcair: mr. trudeau's plan, is frankly reckless. minas appellees across this 6% ofy are asked to spent its intersection -- 60% of its infrastructure. that is not sustainable.

the old liberal approach leaving tens of billions of dollars of debt on the backs of future generations is also not sustainable. we are a reliable long-term partner for music penalties across the country. we don't need the short-term thinking of the liberals. you need money invested long-term. constant spending over the years, $1.5 billion a year in and for structure. $1.3 billion a year in transit. those are important sums of money. mulcairdeau: what mr. is that long-term starts right now, not five years from now, not years from now, not after mandates. canadians need help right now. we have a situation where interests rates are low, so borrowing has never been cheaper for the federal government. are debt to gdp ratio is getting lower. our economy has been flat for 10 years. my question is, now that there

are thousands upon thousands of skilled canadians looking for work in construction and growth, if this isn't the time to invest, what would be? i talked with-- he was saying that costs from municipal investment are down 20% compared to last year because of the circumstances we are in. this is the time to invest in the future of our country. canadians. know this the only people that don't seem to know this are the two gentlemen on the stage. p.m. harper: not only are we pursuing a long-term in for structure plan -- infrastructure plan. this year we are proceeding with a $6 billion plan to eliminate the federal structure deficit. that is what we are doing right now. we are doing that without borrowing money or raising taxes. mr. trudeau says he will raise taxes. mr. mulcair's plan is the same old ndp playbook. whole bunch more spending.

we can finance that by raising taxes on a few rich people and corporations. what happens? you start putting people out of work, slowing the economy, killing jobs. that is the reality of the ndp plan where every has been tried. m.p. mulcair: you are wrong about that, mr. harper. m.p. trudeau: he has chosen to not raise taxes on the wealthiest canadians. only liberal party will to give a tax cut to the middle class. m.p. mulcair: the ndp is categorical. we will not be raising taxes on individual canadians. we will be asking canadian large corporations to start their fair share. they are the only canadians who don't right now. mr. harper and mr. trudeau are of one mind. they thought dropping taxes by billions of dollars is a good idea. when we do recent, it will be reasonably. -- when we raise it, it will be reasonable.

we will also make sure that we close tax loopholes, like the stock option tax loophole, brought in by the liberals, that will ensure that people are effectively playing more, not a theoretical amount. with regard to the difference between the liberals and us, it's true the liberals want to raise individual's personal income taxes. the ndp won't do that. is not fair that someone looking at their paystub that 50% is only going in income taxes. it is not our plan. mulcair talksmr. about the wealthiest 1% are paying their fair share. if you look at the past 30 years, income for the wealthiest 1% of canadians had increased by 70%, while the federal tax share has decreased by 32%. i don't think that is fair. we are the only party that is asking that wealthiest 1% that has done well to pay a little more so that we can talk those

taxes. -- cut those taxes. host: is the creation of another bank the answer? m.p. trudeau: it loans to principalities and provinces. they can take the preferential rates that the federal government gets. it is yet another way, on top of the $60 billion of investments we are making in municipalities, it starts with doubling in the first year for transit, childcare spaces, and for seniors residences. it is time to invest in the future of our country. it has never been more appropriate to invest in the future of our country. these gentlemen can't see that because they are stuck in a political way, not an economic way. raisearper: he will millions of dollars to the closings of stock options. there is simply not that kind of money. the ndp exaggerates how much money they can raise through a few tax hikes. ndppayroll tax hikes of the

amount to over $1500 a person, who is making just $60,000 a year. those fines comes right out of your paycheck. the money you're using to pay your mortgage, by your close, fund your kid's education. [indiscernible] host: the stock option tax loophole-- m.p. mulcair: it goes mostly to the wealthiest canadians. host: we have to leave it there. now to question four on immigration. it goes to mr. harper. all parties agreed that immigration is essential to canada's long-term economic strategy. what is the right balance between economic migrants and those seeking family reunification? p.m. harper: every year we put out numbers. we have maintained a balance between those various categories. of people that come in are related to economic streams, others related to family

reunification's. what i am most proud of is that this is the first government in canadian history, that did not cut our immigration. the reason we did not cut immigration is because we understand, given the demographic and economic pressures, that a long-term immigration program is in this country's interest. that is why we're looking at the long-term. i am pleased we have moved forward on that. we are doing specific things to make sure that economic sections of our policy are more oriented to getting results. for example, we was the process applications in order. what is called express entry. they feel actual vacancies in the job market. this is a transmission that will be important. the agingounter demographic of canada? p.m. harper: we maintained our numbers at very high levels. over $250,000 a year.

there is room forward to increase that. we want to make sure we get the right mix. there are significant settlement funding costs with some streams of immigration. that's a possibility going forward. the main thing is that we make sure we are maximizing the economic benefit of immigration. i talked about express entry. another example is the foreign credentials loans program. we brought it in as a pilot. we found that if we give, through third-party groups, immigrants, very small loans to upgrade their qualifications so that they are recognized in canada, we can get them into the workforce much more quickly. we have a payback on those loans well over 90%. there's a lot of things even in our existing level that we can do to improve the system. trudeau, what role does economic -- what role does immigration play in your economic plan? m.p. trudeau: immigration is essential to our growth.

we are a country that has benefited from people coming from faraway lands, building a better future for themselves and their children and community then they could anywhere else. that is been the strength of this country. we are strong not in spite of our differences, but because of them. one thing that mr. harper is hisinued to under invest in family reunification. this is something that is really important to create strong communities. yes, the economic benefits of immigrants.are well-known there is more to them than it just workers. they are community builders. they are creating stronger cities and strong or futures. that is where the cuts he has made to integration programs, to holding canadian exley succeed, are so disappointing. canada has always given people a path to succeed. that is what we need to get back to. host: open floor. m.p. mulcair: canada is a country of immigrants.

unless you are first nation, your family are graded to canada. i couldn't be prouder to tell you that my wife catherine immigrated to canada. she's one of the many people who contributed so much. under mr. harper's conservatives, we have been closing the door more and more on aspects of immigration. mr. trudeau just referenced it, and he is right. family reunification has been totally shut down under mr. harper's conservative. the best social program is the united family. you have a strong family base. -- shou be considered ldn't be considered a burden, as the conservatives do. they have left the program in shambles. it went off in different directions. even mr. harper, in a secret meeting, admitted it was in total shambles. one final point. mr. harper referenced

recognition of foreign diplomas and credentials. unfortunately it's still the number one cause of on implement, filler to recognize -- number one cause of unemployment in immigrants, failure to recognize credentials. p.m. harper: i'm not sure how you can have a secret meeting with the media. [laughter] m.p. mulcair: i would know you would manage it, mr. harper. p.m. harper: or the first 10 years of this government, we have seen family reunification levels rise 10%. under the liberal government previously, it was down 50%. people understand that the new canadians, the liberal party talks a good game, but didn't deliver. we have 200 million newcomers that are overwhelmingly contributing positive to this country. they are entrepreneurs, they are family people. they are growing our economy and working hard. this is one of the most positive things about this country.

through controlled and legal immigration, we are able to have the best record anywhere in the world. mr. harper has to mistreated that in the case of refugees, canada is not doing enough. this is some think that mr. harper has unfortunately don't number of times. he likes to talk about standing up against tyrants and dictators, but do you know who stands up against tyrants and dictators? families hoping for a better life. they crossed the oceans and make it to canada. what does mr. harper do? take away their health care. we need to once again be a country that is open and welcoming. yes, we need to be concerned about security. but we don't take that as the excuse to close our doors. in years past, whether it was joe clark, the conservative prime minister who bought intent of thousands of vietnamese boat people, other governments that welcomed and people that

contributed to this country, we need to once again be the open and generous country. not naive, making sure we are doing security right, but not using it as an excuse to do less than we should. host: mr. harper, let's bring it back to the economy. p.m. harper: when he corrected the record. refugees are about the economy. the fact of the matter is, we have not taken away health care from immigrants and refugees. on the contrary. the overtime we removed it is are we had clearly bogus refugee claimants that have been turned down. we do not offer them a better health care plan than the ordinary canadian can receive. on the issue of refugees, this remains one of the largest countries in the world in terms of refugee resettlement. i have said we will bring in more. these guys would have had in the last two weeks, throwing open

our borders and literally hundreds of thousands of people coming without any kind of security check or documentation. >> that is not true, mr. harper. m.p. mulcair: mr. harper is playing on fears all the time-- [indiscernible] mulcair.'s go to mr. immigration on the economy. m.p. mulcair: canadians wanted prime minister that understand the sense of urgency we all feel when we see the current crisis in syria. mr. harper unfortunately is fear mongering. its complete be false to affirm that any of the parties in canada would want to throw open the doors to people without any regard to security. we have got to stop using security concerns as an excuse to do nothing. mr. harper, why don't you stop using the security excuse as a pretext to do nothing? nobody wants to let somebody in

without a security check, but you are doing nothing. p.m. harper: we are bringing in more refugees. we are bringing them in more quickly. we're providing a matching fund for military and support. under the most generous refugee policy, most of these people will remain in those countries and need our assistance. m.p. mulcair: we have been asked to bring in my thousand effigies, but you want to do it-- -- 9000 refugees, but you want to do it. that's the united nations asking, mr. harper. p.m. harper: is not the reckless approach that these two-- m.p. mulcair: canadian fear mongering-- p.m. harper: canada has done more in the past. we need to do more right now. we will do more on october 20. host: the next topic is housing. mr. trudeau. canadians have been on a borrowing inch to buy -- borrowing binge to buy more expensive homes. what would you do to guard against a growing housing bubble?

m.p. trudeau: unfortunately for many canadians, their entire economic security is in their homes. we need to make sure that while housing prices rise, incomes are rising as well. middle-class canadians believe that their jobs are giving them better and better salaries, that they can get raises. to do that, we need to create economic growth. we need to reassure canadians that the economy will grow at the same pace as their house values. mr. harper is not delivered that . record centsrst rb bennett and the great oppression. many can't find a rental housing. that is why the liberal party has a plan to increase investment in home construction of rental units, to help seniors with the cost of rent by increasing gis, and making sure that we actually give people the support needed to get their homes and have that economic security. host: would you restrict foreign

ownership of residential homes in canada? m.p. trudeau: we are seeing concerns on that. but we don't have enough accurate data to understand entirely what is happening. mr. harper has chosen to cut the longform census, and it leaves us with less understanding. the liberal party is committed to restoring the longform census to ensure that we have the kind of data so that we can respond to local challenges like you speak of. will we need to be is a federal government is a much better partner to provinces and municipalities to address challenges that are faced in our major centers like vancouver and toronto. but also the challenges being felt right across the country for those struggling to buy their first home, people struggling to find rental housing, and need help to get that economic letter to success. it hasn't been there over the past 10 years.

that is what the liberal plan to invest in the future of our country is all about. mulcair, what would you do to help the squeezed middle-class who have high property taxes and mortgages? m.p. mulcair: the first thing canadians should recall is the last time liberals were in power, they canceled canada's national housing strategy. also worth knowing there were 35,000 homeless in canada right now. i gave an example earlier of our quality affordable childcare, maximum $15 a day. here in calgary and lots of other cities, parents are paying well over $3000 your for childcare. -- $20,000 a year for childcare. a lot of young people looking at having a family and they look at the cost and it extremely difficult. we would make sure we put more

money in their pockets and we would bring in as a model for others and with regard to the other people he would give a race to come a federal minimum wage of $15 an hour. think the housing story is a very positive story in this country. you look around the world where there have knowledge these financial crushes. a lot of them centered around the housing market. in canada, home ownership is at record levels. now, higher ownership than the u.s. positive canadian story that we should celebrate. how do we in this unstable, global economy continue to attack that? we believe we bring in specific incentives to help homeowners. for instance, the improvements

to the home buyers plan, the doubling of contributions to tax savings. things that allow people to invest more in their homes. what we do not need when our economy is threatened by the health of the global economy is tax increases on ordinary canadian families. these are not good for homeowners. mr. harper talks about growth but he has not been able to get it done. he has the worst growth record in 80 years of any prime minister. we invest in the economy once again. interest rates are low, our debt to gdp is low and economic growth has been flat. we need to kickstart our economy and that is what we going to do so people can get better jobs and a fourth their homes. -- and afford their homes. that mr. mulcair is

not making a choice that will allow to invest, they all caps of smoke. we need to announce right now. we need to invest in the future of the country. you like.ke jokes all these are canadians having trouble and you are offering a national minimum wage that will not touch not 9% of people. -- 99% of people. many -- the: do not least we can say is that it was not a priority for them. childcare --rdable m.p. trudeau: billions of dollars in the provinces kick in. tot: what message do give millennial's today trying to get on the property run? m.p. mulcair: we had a prime

minister who thinks a bungalow is totally out of reach. look at the cost of living in major cities. it's out of control. ok, i. harper says it's have a renovation tax credit. we are going to start by putting more money in people's pockets. we will give a raise to over 100,000 people earning the federal minimum wage. they will get more money. a good signal to the provinces to do the same thing, to bring up a living wage. i think someone who works full-time shouldn't be living in poverty. i have spoken to a lot of people earning minimum wage and you are giving them false hope. you are promising them a national minimum wage. they are earning

less than $15 an hour. it is not going to affect 99% of canadians earning the minimum wage. 0 we will come back. canadians have a right to know. m.p. trudeau: you pretend to vote for minimum wage. eights -- it's a significant thing. it's not going to help 99% of people earning minimum wage. we're also: enhancing the home buyers plan to help families be able to build their first home as we've been able to enhance the first time homeowners by. in terms of rising cost due to the possibility of foreign speculation, we are prepared to act on that if the data shows

that the problem. we're doing more than these things to help canadian families. we have delivered the universal childcare benefit and enhancing it. we are increasing deductions. we're doubling -- must -- you: you deliver the same amount of liberals. harper -- m.p. trudeau: they want to continue to send mr. harpers you millionaires.to we are going to stop sending those checks to the people who don't need it so we can send larger checks to the families who do need it and lift 315,000 kids out of poverty. that will make a difference in the lives of people who need it.

bidz.com enough money in the budget to fund your promises. mr. mulcair, he said he will raise the corporate tax rate. what economics rather than political reasons justifies your decision? the liberals and conservatives agreed tens of billions of dollars of tax reductions to the largest corporations was the way to go but that hasn't worked out. we have lost 400,000 manufacturing jobs on mr. harpers watch. it is clear that canada's large corporations are going to go back to paying something resembling their fair share. it will still be less than the average and well below what it was under the liberals but we're asking all canadians to pay

their fair share, including corporations but we will start right away. you will start right away to reduce the taxes on canada's job creators. our businesses create 80% of new jobs in this country and we think that's a good idea. you'll also closed stock loopholes because of those are the types that exist for the rich. theirif corporations move money elsewhere, he will lose your balanced budget and revenue. m.p. mulcair: that's what you have to work against tax havens. we have cases where authorities in other countries have given a list of canadians using illegal taxes and mr. harper has done nothing about that. and we will take the approach to make sure the wealthy pay their fair share. when we made the announcement, we looked out the successive years of promises by liberals talking about millennial goals.

-- asountry as well wealthy as canada, hundreds of thousands of children go to school having not eaten. so we will take that money and dedicate it to help lift those children's and their families out of poverty. that is a direct action the other parties have talked about but have done nothing. it is high time they did. their approach has failed and we will change it. host: mr. harper, you won't raise taxes. how do you raise the federal revenues? p.m. harper: we have cut business taxes and our corporate tax revenues are rising because we have a competitive tax environment. i go back again to what mr. mulcair is saying. he claims he will cut taxes on businesses so why will this plan

caused job losses? he raises taxes. they claim they're going to balance the budget and bring in billions in new spending and we end up with job losses. that's what we had in ontario and british columbia and we see the same story in alberta. we had a round of layoffs because of oil prices and no because of the business tax increases. in an unstable economy, we have competitive tax rates. this is something we need to protect our economy, keep creating jobs. high taxes, permanent deficits don't create jobs. m.p. trudeau: mr. harper is talking about the round of layoffs in alberta and that's why we have a plan to invest in transit and support to invest now where there is an opportunity and thousands of people are out of work who can be put to work in building our country now and in the years to

come. on taxes, we feel as canadians, they pay enough in taxes except the middle class should pay less and the wealthiest should pay more. i will do what my opponents will not. i will raise taxes on the wealthiest 1% so we can cut them for the middle class so mr. mulcair lexa talk about fair share but what he will do will do nothing to tax the bank executives who get paid high salaries because cutting corporate taxes will prevent executives from hiring more people and their economy. you will lose jobs. mr. trudeau's very first vote in parliament was to back mr. harpers taxes. formost recent was to vote

bill c 51, which seriously compromises the right and freedoms of all canadians. we stand against c 51 and showed why it was dangerous. that's leadership. m.p. trudeau: we're talking about canadians getting ahead and you're playing the same politics of division and fear mr. harper has. mr. harper wants to talk about terrorists hiding behind every was tod mr. mulcair pretend we are in a police state. both of those are politics of your the liberal party has refused to accept because we need the votes. connect canadian security and defend our will -- our right to freedom. we have a plan to lift 315,000 kids out of poverty by increasing child benefit payments to families in need it and we are going to ask the wealthiest to pay a little more so we can lower class taxes for the middle class. this is something neither mr. mulcair nor mr. harper will

actually do and it's not about politics, it's about doing the right thing. recognizing that with 10 years with mr. harper, there is not been the growth canadians need. canadians with money to spend are going to create opportunities for themselves and community. 20 be clear on what we have actually done. -- let me be clear on what we have actually done. the taxes on small businesses is down over 40% and will go down further. they brought in tax-free savings account that 11 million canadians are benefiting from. over 6 million adults benefit from that. we are bringing in a home renovation tax credit that millions of people will be able to use. air and enhancing -- we're enhancing registered disability savings. the broadest tax rate you can bring in benefited virtually every canadian.

the new york times ran an article that compared the canadian middle-class to others where our disposable income is moving ahead where ours is falling behind probably because we're making sure we have money in people's pockets and we are the only party not talking about raising any taxes going forward or running deficits going forward and this is the kind of plan we need. not one that comes in and hammers you with a normal payroll tax increase. m.p. mulcair: we just saw that disposable income for families has hit almost hundred 65%. -- 165%. we need the government to create opportunities for canadians by investing in better transit, social housing and childcare

spaces, and support for floodplains mitigation, green infrastructure that will create the kinds of jobs going forward we know we need. we have a plan to invest in the future of this country and we are being straight about it. we will run modest deficits because borrowing has never been cheaper because of low interest rates because our debt to gdp ratio is healthy and the economy is flat and canadians need jobs. we have a plan to kickstart the economy and make it easier for the middle class to get ahead. actuallyhat we are putting forward and right now, neither mr. harper nor mr. mulcair has a plan to do that. host: thank you. largeudeau recently set a number of business owners was tax cheap.

i find that offensive. they create more than 80% of the new jobs in our country and they deserve a tax break. that will help create new jobs. i havenot the experience seen with the mom and pop operations. host: thank you to the leaders. while polluters cut to their breath, he moved to the second part of the evening and this has a different pace to it. in the old days, the electorate used to choose their representatives but as data becomes more sophisticated, politicians are able to choose and ignore keegan their fix -- ignore key demographics. it marks a profound and uncomfortable shift.

try to push as i the leaders often there were hers to speaking nose and give them the opportunity to explain themselves more thoroughly and hopefully with fewer interruptions from the others. awill ask each reader question that will be followed by an exchange between myself and that leader before turning it to open debate. the leaders have no prior knowledge of these questions. i will start with mr. mulcair. you with a party that has never run the country. why should the electorate and the national economy to you? that is a key question in this campaign because after 150 years of being told we have no choice, that we are tired of the liberal sponsorship scandal we have to alternate back to the conservative and only get heart of conservative, there is another choice. bestarty that has the

record for balanced budget. duringouglas took over bankruptcy and ran 17 consecutive balanced budgets. i come from a family of 10 children and we had to work hard. we took care of each other. have are the values that guided me as a father, a grandfather, husband. i am very proud of that. we are a party that will make people our top priority. we brought in medicare and we will bring an affordable childcare. 0 for biography is titled "strength of conviction." your biography is titled "strength of conviction." m.p. mulcair: i've been in public life for over 35 years.

i've always served the public. my wife is a psychologist the works in long-term care. our oldest son is a police officer. our youngest son is a college professor and we all serve the public. there is no more noble calling slog want to make sure we do the right thing for people going forward. for my granddaughter goes to university, she doesn't have to borrow at the level done people have to today. edit don't want to leave a massive debt on the backs of future generations. host: it's something that's a challenge. m.p. mulcair: our fabric understands. at -- we know the only way to bring in something as important as quality, affordable childcare is to build it on a solid foundation, balanced budgets. in 2008, we were in the worst

recession. we don't want to leave more billions on the backs of future generations. they don't need the economic debt. host: this is a recurring issue. that is what all of your visions are for this great country. what will you do to build a new economy? m.p. mulcair: one of the things we will do is make sure it's a knowledge-based economy. the only way to create new wealth is to create new knowledge. when i traveled across the country on a kitchen table tour, a young couple i met and little me between them, they had with hundred 30,000 dollars in student debt. when is that young couple supposed to start a family? that is the reality today and

having children is a good thing for the couple and the economy. let's get this right for the future and make sure we get our priorities right. helped canadian families for generations and we want to make sure our social programs are on solid footing. host: let's go to the open floor part. keepsrudeau: mr. mulcair talking about investing in our future. you cannot put forward a plan for investments like my plan on stephen harper's budget. it takes the optimism we need to invest in our future, to know canadians are capable of building a stronger future and after the low growth we've had, it's time to kickstart the economy. settling myabout kids with a lack of jobs, good infrastructure, a future,

because the government didn't want to invest in our country. this is what our plan is all about, building a stronger future. mr. mulcair is putting it off. he cannot give canadians the help they need the way we will. i am being straight and honest. whatulcair's plan is to do we know politicians have done in the past, which is to say we will balance the books and the numbers are worse than we thought and we will have to break our promises. i am being honest with canadians. we're going to invest in the future canadians need right now. the whole essence of mr. mulcair's plan is he will balance the budget through tax hikes. they left his columbia in a massive deficit. albert's deficit is larger.

hikes do not grow the economy and create jobs. they kill jobs and her revenue and we don't want to go down that path. mr. trudeau says we will have greater optimism by spending more. ofdon't measure our level optimism through our level of spending. to make sure we are making investments in the things we need to. in infrastructure, training. to do that in a way we know we can continue to afford without raising taxes i having a balanced budget and i think in this economy, that's an important guarantee. host: mr. harper, you don't understand canadians that afford to continue to be stuck in traffic because there is no reliable transit. you have been stuck in a motorcade for the past 10 years

but most canadians are very aware that the transit underinvestment is a drag and our economy. i have spoken with mrs. valadez -- with mrs. valadez -- with municipalities. they say we have a plan that is exactly what we need. said a planactually for investment is what we need. the former chair of the bank of canada, a list of the park parliamentary uttered officers. countries that believe in their future are willing to invest in their future. largestper: we have the infrastructure investments in

history right now. people see through your games. p.m. harper: the numbers are there. we are doing that without raising taxes. mr. trudeau says it's ok to spend more. those people will always tell you to spend more. you have to be able to -- basedulcair: our plan is on long-term vision. you know what has to be accomplished. mr. trudeau, you are talking about stephen harper's budget but you have voted for his budgets. i have never voted for one of his budgets and your very first vote as a member of parliament was to vote for his tax giveaway

to canada's largest corporations. i can guarantee you jack layton and i thought that every step of the way. i think what we see tonight is an extraordinary -- ofge of ideas between ideas. i want to turn this one to mr. trudeau. taxing the richest and spending it -- why should canadians up to their eyes in debt the encouraged to buy your message? we are raising taxes on the wealthiest so we can cut them for the middle class. that is the shift we feel we need. mr. mulcair talks about income inequality. except they actually are not doing anything about it. only the liberal party will ask

people who have been very successful to do a little more so we can put money in the pockets of people who need it. that is what our approach is because we know that's what we have to do. on top of that and aside from that, we're going to make historic investments in the future of our country because transit, roads, bridges, clean water and wastewater treatment, things it will create good jobs for canadians now as they build them and good jobs and prosperity going forward as our communities do better. that's what investing in our future is about. that's what canada needs. host: you propose a fairly modest deficit against the national economy. be the you consider to biggest single challenge you face? when i look for the cost of your platform, i cannot add it up.

m.p. trudeau: you were the first party to put out a fully cost framework that said we will run three modest deficits over the first three years so we can balance the books in 2019 because what canada needs now is growth. because mr. harper has been unable to deliver, having the worst growth record since the great depression. you do that by investing in communities, transit, green infrastructure, the kinds of things that will contribute. host: let's go back to your idea of an infrastructure. are these areas that are part of the federal government's role? m.p. trudeau: the federal government's role is to be a partner serving citizens with communities and with provinces. we will respond to the needs

canadians have on the ground to improve their quality of life table better opportunities in the cities. that's not what the federal government has been. mr. harper has refused to engage with provinces and has not been the transitner in and infrastructure investments needed and not so we're going to turn around. there's clear sense structural changes happening to the economy. what will you do, what are your policies to build that new economy? m.p. trudeau: one of the facts we're looking at now are because of the challenges with low oil prices, the of construction and engineering firms here in calgary who were suddenly bidding on local contracts that they've never have the bandwidth to do before. this is the time to invest in your hometown.

you need to step up and we need to step up and be there for when unicipalities.- m this is the moment to invest when interest rates are low and our debt to gdp is low and when the economy has been flat because mr. harper has not stepped up. host: let's go to open floor. mr. harper. p.m. harper: if i could respond to that. you are making record investments in our infrastructure right now, including a federal infrastructure program rolling out across the country. the reason mr. trudeau is running deficits is because he went around the country and promised more money than he had and found out taxing a few wealthy people doesn't cover that is unknown is trying to run saying deficits are a good

thing. we did a lot of work to make sure we came out of deficits without cutting social programs. this is a guarantee to people. when we've lowered your taxes, they will stay down at investments we make our sustainable and when mr. trudeau gets us off the anchor of a balanced budget for no reason, that goes on forever and gets worse and that's not a risk you are our economy can afford. m.p. mulcair: you have run deficits in good years, bad years. the only time you said deficits are not run is in election years. the thought of the matter is you stood on stage is like this, will get canadians three times, and promised not to bring deficits and that's what you've done. -- we are stuck in deficits is because you don't understand giving tax breaks and benefits to the wealthiest

canadians is not a way to grow the economy anymore. we of low growth, not the worst job creation record since world war ii of any prime minister, and that's what canadians are feeling. more disconnected from people's reality. you to get this country invested in its own future and that's what you haven't done. p.m. harper: we ran surpluses before the global financial crisis. when the crisis came, everyone in the world run deficits and we told canadians we would run a massive stimulus program and sustain our economy and it would be temporary and the deficit would fall and we've done exactly that on exactly the schedule we said and we are entering our second year of a balanced budget. m.p. mulcair: on july 19, mr.

trudeau give a press conference in which he said he would run balanced budgets not stop. if you weeks after that, he announced he would run $10 billion a year in deficit. he was clearly criticizing the fact mr. harper had run deficits but that's what he's planning to do. the only fair to say when your advisors tell you one thing and another, pick one. you cannot save them both. your first vote in canadian parliament was to vote for mr. harper's tax cut for the wealthy. m.p. trudeau: i am looking straight at canadians and being honest the way i always have. we are committed to balanced budgets. we will balance the budget in 2019 because canadians need investment and growth now. m.p. mulcair: mr. harper claims