after that british prime come ron taking questions in the house of commons. then another chance to see the on pope francis' -- accepted by them. one said trump did not come over on the mayflower. views on capitalism. that is the divide. brian: back in the perot years, there was a supposition that he really hated george herbert walker bush, and that was the motive to run. you have alluded to this in some of the interviews with trump, that his motive is because he does not like jeb bush. what is this about? ♪ announcer: this week on go beyond the mayflower. "q&a," "washington post" political national reporter robert: i've spoken to trump robert costa. he talked about the 2016 about this and trump that's presidential campaign any there is a sense that if you similarities between donald have done it and accumulated these billions of dollars, with trump and 1992 candidate, trump, that he did it, that he made it happen, in his view of businessman ross perot. the bushes, things are given to the bushes. brian: robert costa of the they have inherited a lot. "washington post." trump has inherited much as well. you are quoted as saying my he got his start through his father. political hero is robert caro, the way he thinks about his wealth and access to politics, he sees himself as looking in from the outside on this dynasty, the bush dynasty. it is up and down.

not any politician. robert: exactly right. brian: why? robert: he studies power. i love politics. i love history. trump had a fundraiser for jeb i love seeing how people use bush years ago. power, and how people in he had a fundraiser for george congress and in presidential h.w. bush when he owned the campaign. plaza. it is hard to define. as a reporter, you are seeking he likes the bushes somewhat and out who is in action, who is controlling situations, what is then revolts against them. the cost they are paying, what the breaking point with trump are they trying to do to use and the bushes with the iraq power? brian: anyone coming to your war. mind when using power aside from ever since 2004 he probably broke on the iraq war and they broke on they war and they have not lyndon johnson that robert carol wrote about? robert: mcconnell. he understands the machinations of power and how to use congress to get things done. in presidential campaigns, president obama. he understand movement politics, how to excite a new generation. the way he campaigned in 2008 was a fresh way of using the campaign as a tool to get power. been friends since. brian: i want have you been at

at thelong have you been brian: suppose you look at some of those folks born as elitists. explain why people react the way they do. robert: there is real anger towards the washington, new york crowd. when i am on the trail, i am a capitol hill for a truck rally. i said i'm just a reporter. "washington post/" they think that northeast media, robert: january 2014. whether it is washington post or i may national political the new york times, whether it is politicians like boehner or reporter. i cover political campaigns, mcconnell, they feel angry about congress, and work on the what has happened the obama era, stories of the day. very unhappy with president whatever is driving the national obama, and they think the press conversation, that is what i is complicit, which i don't cover. i'd like to do some think is fair, and they see the investigative on the side, the republicans in congress as background of politicians and complicit. their aides. the stars of the republican brian: why do you do this? robert: i love this. party are not elected officials. i did not really know what i they are the voices on the wanted to do when i was in high outside. school and college. i just loved politics. and i thought to myself, to me, it is like sitting in the dugout of a baseball game. big baseball fan. when you go to conservative events, phil robertson of the dynasty, sarah palin, donald trump. they get the biggest crowds. and they are not elected officials. brian: biggest claim conservatives have against the media, and is there enough

conservative media out there for people to get the information they need? robert: i think, as someone who if you're in congress and in new worked for "national review," there are sometimes reasons to hampshire, and you get to go up say some things could be more straight at certain to these politicians and talk to publications, but i am a fan of them and see how they react to great journalism and i like it questions, situations, it gives whether it is in "washington me a bit of a drill. post," or "national review." it never -- a thrill. i think the writer can have a it never gets old. point of view. to be a close, to see it, it i don't think anything needs to gets me going every day. brian: you got a masters degree be clinical. at cambridge. why were you at cambridge? in my world, i think it should robert: when i was in notre be as straight as possible, dame, i did a semester in london especially when covering and i worked in the house of politics. i think that is the way it common. should be done. andrew ansley was a tory. cameron was down the hall in the portcullis house. i loved the experience working in the house of commons as a researcher. i would watch the debates and the yelling. it was fun. one person i met during that time was a professor named andrew gamble. brian: i want to show you another slide about debt. when ross perot was running back in 1992, two years before that, the debt in america was $3.2 a socialist, actually, but a historian of the british political system and conservative party. he runs politics at the university of cambridge. trillion and the gdp was $5.9 he and i had some tea at trillion. westminster and struck it off. $18.13 is not accurate.

i didn't think i was going to grad school. the only graduate school i applied to was cambridge and i ended up going there. i did my masters degree, my thesis, on churchill. they stopped counting at the moment we're doing the issue. they stopped counting until the budget is worked out. you see the gdp. churchill's archives and what is your reaction? margaret thatcher's archives are in the same building at robert: there was a moment in republican politics where the churchill college at cambridge. debt consumed the gop, but i to go over those papers and think that moment is over. you look at donald trump not notes was great. talking about getting rid of i did it for about 10 months and medicare or reforming them. that was that. mike huckabee is doing the same brian: what did you learn about thing. winston churchill and power? robert: one thing i learned was power takes a long time to develop and it is often based on relationship. one of the things that fascinated me was the anglo american relationship that developed around world war ii. it was cultivated for decades by the paul ryan wing of the party churchill. has been weekend by what an american mother, but he came happened with 2012 with romney over in the teens and 20's and and ryan losing. 30's. we're entering a new phase, from he kept building relationships what i can see in my working, -- with people in business, the in my reporting, where the debt cultural scene, politics. is not front and center. national security perhaps, the economy. different questions about he recognized that power is not something you call upon or leadership in washington. exerted when you are in a it is the debt. leadership position, but based the activists are not as angry on relationships and that is why about it. brian: let's listen to what i call it the qualitative side donald trump said in june 2015.

of politics. quantitative, polling, all of that matters. there is a qualitative, personal side to power, and churchill was a genius in not how he used [video] people, but used relationships to put his country in a position mr. trump: i will bring back our at a time of crisis, and the jobs from china, mexico, from so relationships he built himself played a big heart. many places. i will bring back our jobs and double bring back our money. right now -- think of this. we owe china $1.3 trillion. -- played a big part. we owe japan more than that. so they come in, they take our jobs, they take our money, and they loan us back the money and we pay interest. and then the dollar goes up, so the deal is even better. how stupid are our leaders? how stupid are these politicians brian: there is a story about you that relates to the time you to allow this to happen? were reporting a lot on inside the republican party on capitol hill, where supposedly party brian: throw in the fannie and people said stop leaking to that freddie money that china has, is guy. a lot more than one point 3 trillion robert: i have spoken than $3 trillion. that what is your point on this? robert: i have spoken to trump

about this multiple times. stop leaking to bob kostas -- there is an opening for trump on costa. robert: that is why i go by trade because, when you look at robert costa. what happened in congress since it happened during 2013 during republicans took over, very the government shutdown. little has gotten done. they think the negotiator, that was a fun time to be a someone from the outside, that reporter. is a powerful argument for trump one thing i recognized early on is to report on congress, you to make. they think one thing that has can't go through eight. there are so many great reporters on capitol hill. this is just an observation and gotten done it is trade became a way of reporting on congress. promotional authority. you need to know the personal e-mail addresses of members. you need to know their cell phones. that has irritated grassroots you can have a text relationship with them and an e-mail relationship with them. republican voters. they see ships coming over. the most important thing to trump does not always use the cover in congress is to get best figures, but there is a things directly from the source in the room. feeling out there among the i was going directly to members. electorate that china, japan, you have to be careful because different nations are getting some members always want to talk better deals with the united on the record. sometimes they just want to give states. off the record guides. if you can have those contacts at your tips out of 435, you could have 20-30 people you trust and build a whole scene i think that aspect of trump, the negotiator who will revamp u.s. trade policy. from 5-10 people. brian: do you remember the first time you texted someone inside a meeting and they fired back at you? robert: 2009. when i started covering congress, 2010 especially, during the health care fight. i came to washington from new

york to cover congress and i remember people were shocked that i was asking all these we have seen aspects of it with buchanan in 1992, different people having a more nativist argument, but trump is doing it in a totally different way a someone who has made these deals. brian: we first noticed ross members for the numbers. perot in 1988 when he spoke at they would give me their office the national press club. numbers. listen to what he said. i would say, i want your personal number. one thing i learned as a reporter is never be afraid to ask for information. a lot of times they would be happy to give it. [video recording] mr. trump: let's look at how the a lot of members don't have japanese banks got all the money. friends in washington. you become someone they trust, go home tonight, look at your who is not going to misuse electronics, see how you can information, it was reliable as find how many u.s. names him. i rest my case. a reporter. go out to the parking lot and see what you drive. what you buy those products? -- and who is reliable as a you thought they were the best. reporter. i can't ask you to buy made in the usa unless you think it is the best. i can't ask you to do that. they make the best products. we bought their products. we are the world's biggest customer. they make great products. we bought their products. they got our money. we have their products. [laughter] our money is in their banks. guess what? their banks are now lending our i have always asked people for their contact information. government the money so that we i am often sharing my rolodex can continue living in this with reporters. not being afraid to ask, get the fantasyland beyond our means. contacts. sometimes a member will say this happened in a meeting and they

brian: the difference between will say to another person, did that really happen? then and now is $3 trillion in i will go to member a and say, are you sure? debt and now it is close to $19 that was right. boehner said this or mcconnell trillion. said that. brian: republican conservative cynics, who would be very surprised that you came from the robert: a bigger theme out of "national review" to the perot's talk about the debt is "washington post." he is talking about trade and george will did it. the economy that a different class in the republican party. 1970's.the early this is where the divide is. where i covered things every he was a columnist. day. you are not a columnist. capital a was in the why did the "washington post" hire someone from "the national review?" few weeks ago. robert: i was coming out of cambridge and i wanted to cover or whether it's in iowa, new politics. hampshire. it was a great opportunity to be there is a this case for what they see as a push by companies to push different trade deals, who are encouraging of comprehensive immigration reform. and they think there is an aspect of the outlook and party a william buckley fellow. that is being driven by the they wanted to start something corporations and the corporate for journalists in the magazine. interest. i was the inaugural buckley fellow. i read "washington post.." i was in my early 20's. and, that is why they love when i knew i did not really have the interest in writing a column or being in editorialist and it was not my thing. you just have to know yourself. someone like perot for trump i never aspired to be some sort steps in as someone from the of big columnist. corporate world and makes the counter argument. that is where the power lies

with trump. he is not being per trade as an -- portrayed as an elitist. i said to rich lowry, editor of the "national review," saying his rivals are can i cover politics? at the time, it was more colorful, and i wanted to do straight reporting. his real power is someone who comes from being in that world and go against it. that is what excites people who are upset about the debt. brian: we're going to look at donald trump again from earlier this year. keep in mind that as he talks, there are 12 major automobile plants owned by foreign governments in this country right now. watch this. i look at it as a trade magazine. [video recording] if you are working at "car and driver," it does not mean you mr. trump: now ford announces a few weeks ago that ford is going to build a $2.5 billion car and truck and parts manufacturing plant in mexico. are in love with the car industry. 2.5 billion dollars. it is going to be one of the largest in the world. so let's say congratulations. that is the good news. you are covering cars for car let me give you the bad news. lovers. every car and every truck and when i was at "nation review," i am reporting for republican

inside baseball stuff. every part manufactured in this i think the washington post recognize i never wrote a column or editorial. i was a reporter at a trade plant that comes across the magazine. brian: how old were you in 1992? robert: six or seven. brian: i want to show you on the border, we are going to charge screen a poll that was taken in you a 35% tax. the middle of 1992. this is a poll when ross perot was running against george h.w. bush and bill clinton. [crowd cheering] middle of 1992. mr. trump: that tax is going to be paid simultaneously with the transaction. in november of that year, bill that is it. clinton was elected president. brian: when nikki haley was at the press club, she bragged that what you think of that poll? the largest bmw plant, i think, in the world, is in south carolina. robert: i have been to that robert: we are seeing the perot plan. i traveled around the american movement comeback with donald south. trump. you see car plants everywhere. one person i got to know, ed but did you see how the crowd rollins, veteran republican , chanted, yes? consultant, he was a great yes. trump is not always using resource to me as a source. specific data. he was co-campaign manager for pointusing data perot in 1992. data points that he thinks perot brought these people in together to see if they could make this happen. there is the anger you saw in 1992 with perot, the appetite

for a political outsider. it is there again. helps his own case and he is connecting with a feeling out in a way, when you look at there, not necessarily entirely factual, but it is a feeling people close to trump, when did among republican voters. people can shrug it out and look it happen? at a car plant here. after three terms, a long they are right. that does not demean trump's republican period. case. they think the debt is rising. they don't think the future will be as good for their grandkids and kids. even though it has been to terms and so trump is connecting with them in that fashion. of obama, we are in a post obama era. there is a lot of angst in both parties. that is why connects with competitors. they say, it is not entirely true. they are right. but, does it matter lyrically? we will see. brian: this is from 1992 in october 5 team. this is a well-known thing. did you ever meet ross perot? robert: never. brian: did you watch much of what he had to say? robert: i remember the perot campaign. i was interested in a row at perot was different in that he was running an independent bid. there are so similarities on the -- i was interested day in ross trail and you see the move. i would blend 92 perot and buchanan together. you mix what was happening with perot and buchanan in 1992 perot even at seven-years-old. against the republican establishment, against george h.w. bush, and i think decades i was collecting his stickers. later, there is another bush who is this perot coming out of struggling. nowhere?

i understood he even at robert: i am 29-years-old. seven-years-old, talking with my perot hadothers, why brian: when do you turn 30? a following. robert: october 14. brian: we asked you lots of he was fresh. you cannot discount it. things, to look at perot versus brian: we will talk about your trump just for the purpose of analyzing the content. family in a moment. we will go back to 1992 and pick there is ross perot. up perot clips and just recently, some from mr. trump. let's run the trump first. [video recording] mr. perot: we have got to stop sending jobs overseas. for those of you in the audience who are business people, pretty mr. trump: this is a self-funded simple. campaign. you are paying $14 an hour for we have our heart in it. factory workers. you can move your factory south of the border, pay one dollar and our for your labor, no health care, that is the most expensive single element making the cost, have no pollution controls, and no retirement, and we have our soul in it. you don't care about anything we don't need money, we don't but making money. want money, and this will be a campaign like no others. i am not controlled by lobbyists. i'm not controlled by anybody. i'm controlled by the people of there will be a giant sucking south.oing the country in order to make our country great again. brian: what do you hear? if the people send me to washington, the first thing i will do is study that 2000 page agreement to make sure it is a two-way street. robert: giant sucking sound. just hearing perot talk about jobs in that way, it reminds me

of how i see trump all the time. if big rally at a football when i was down in mobile, alabama, this summer, at a big rally at a football field there. robert: this has been trump's i was in a parking lot and m.o. politically for the last 15 people were talking about years. when i talked to him in immigration not because of february, my sense was trump was going to run. hispanics, and is not the usual way they interpret it is against a person, but they feel like we put it on the front page of jobs are slipping away. the "washington post." a lot of people said, what are you doing? if you look at it objectively to them, immigration is an and you don't assume anything economic issue. about who he is or what that some people think he is a sideshow. they don't have the labor force if you look objectively at what anymore. he was saying, he was there are union members and the articulating a political message earlier this year about trump rally. understanding the political there are teachers. class was extremely unpopular. white-collar professionals, insurance people from mobile, alabama. they see trump as someone not they are rallying to perhaps someone who is rallying against hispanic people, but someone who will provide them with a better economic climate. he thought he could run as someone who wasn't in the political class and did not need the money. brian: in the middle of the year the problem for trump is that as 1992, perot came back. here is after he came back. october 11, 1992. mr. perot: what separates me is much as he is exciting all of these voters who see in him the 5.5 million people came together on their own and put me someone like perot will protect on the ballot. i was not put on the ballot by either of the two parties. i was not put on the ballot by

the border, bring jobs back, he is at the same time alienating a lot of people by the way he speaks about these issues. any pac money, by any foreign lobbyist money, any special interest money. this is a movement that came brian: here is a perot ad back \thi is a movement that came in 1992. listen to what folks were saying from the people. back then. as is the way the framers of the constitution intended our government to be. government comes from the people. [video recording] we have developed a government that comes after people, from >> when i hear perot speak, it the top down, where the people are more or less treated as is if though i am saying the objects to be programmed during words. he is speaking for me. the campaign with commercials and media events and fear what he says is coming out and messages and personal attacks you know it. and things of that nature. >> because we need someone with the thing that separates my this is management to run this candidacy and makes it unique is country. our country is going down the tubes. that this came from millions of people in 50 states, all over i was a clinton supporter and this country, who wanted a watching the debate has turned candidate who worked and no one me completely around. mr. perot is the man for the would pay him. country. >> if everyone thought like me, decided to vote for him, i wasn't going to vote for him because i didn't think he could win. that is silly. >> i think america needs a change in the system. the system we have now isn't working and i want my daughter to have a future. brian: that was 23 years ago. brian: running as an robert: only 23 years ago. i could be walking into a trump independent, got 19% of the event and get those exact same vote. what is your reaction compared votes.

to what he said to trump? robert: the themes are overlapping. perot has a distinct personality -- quotes. different from trump. the celebrity factor is not that feeling is still out there there as it is with trump. there is a power with trump's personality that perot did not have. being outside of the republican party, the republican party's among the voters i speak to every week. relationship with trump has been rocky. they called trump and asked them the question is, when i talked to tone it down on immigration. to a lot of voters like that, he said, we will see. he did not tone it down. the first thing i asked them is we could see it this year, what when they last spoke, and many happened with perot happen with of them say i don't remember. trump. they did not maybe vote in 2008 he keep stock about wanting to be treated fairly. trump is, if anything, unpredictable. or 2012. these are politically interested people, but not politically active. this is not the ted cruz voter. this is not the hard-core he could run as an independent. conservative. this is the voter who has been disconnected from both parties. it is the same person. the working class. they feel like the party has answers for them. trump is grappling with this right now. brian: back in 1988, here he is with larry king. how you get these people who are excited in the summer? are they going to really come donald trump. out in the primaries and caucuses? [video] larry king: you might be can they provide a network? classified as an eastern republican? fair? can they be a reliable base.

mr. trump: you could say that. i've never heard those terms. to 25%? really just 19% there are king: are you a bush republican? mr. trump: wealthy people don't like me. i'm competing against them all brian: how open is trump to you? the time. they don't like me. robert: very open. i like to win. i go out on the streets of new york and the people who like me are the taxi drivers and workers among the most accessible. and etc. brian: how do you get a hold of robert: he is a millionaire but him? robert: easy. it is different. every other campaign, you have to call the press secretary, outline the story. it is a whole rigmarole. but he has ae, you have 15 minutes here, five minutes there, a walk and talk there. it is a pain. trump, i called his assistant in new york city at trump tower, and usually gets on the phone within two minutes. it is just different. he does not operate like an old -- like a normal politician. sometimes i end up being the one putting the phone down on him. thank you, mr. trump. blue collar sensibility. when people look at the trump the other thing i like about phenomena, it is the new york trump -- almost everything on toughness, the streetsmarts. trump does not talk in depth the record. about policy, but he is one of as a reporter, it is refreshing the most social animals i have because i can't stand going to ever seen covering politics. background. i want to hear what these people his ability to talk in that way want to say and what it out in is what attracts people to him on the trail. he has this sensibility, in the way he talks politically incorrectly about immigration. -- and wanted to out in public. if he is on media everywhere now, he is accessible to reporters. i asked other republican contenders if they are adjusting to trump. brian: your is a humorous

attempt at explaining this from 1999 "saturday night live." we had been in a culture porous to sources in presidential politics. [video recording] it is very controlled. it is corporate. trump, or better or worse, i don't have a take on it. he changed it. >> i think we all know why we are here. brian: here is ross perot. now the reform party needs a new, crazy later. maybe it will be pat buchanan, or maybe donald trump, but it sure as hell won't be me. >> mr. perot, do you think anyone would listen to you or applaud if you were poor? i wasn't insane enough for the [laughter] american people. mr. perot: no. what we need is a real dirt bag. [laughter] [applause] >> i couldn't agree more. the american people -- but -- my parents, my grandparents, and >> let me finish. everyone in my family lived in would you let me finish, pat? this segment of society that i i'm going to ask you gentlemen have been talking about today, if you question. when you worked hard and had just enough to get by. >> go ahead. shoot. >> pat, i'm going to start with you. where do you stand on illegal aliens?

that? i'll never forget one christmas, >> we have a serious illegal my dad had to sell his horse so alien problem in this country. that we would have a christmas. foreigners in general are repulsive to me. >> whoa, whoa. no whine, no complaint. just did it. i come from that background. i lived in that background for 38 years of my life before i got lucky. today, i am a lot more comfortable with those people hold the boat. who made the world go round then the donald employs an army of illegal aliens in his many fine atlantic city casinos. sure they steal, but if they are fresh off the boat they will work for $.50 a week. [laughter] brian: 1999. robert: people forget about this chapter in trump's political history. -- than i am with the beautiful he was thinking about running on people. can i relate to them? the reform ticket and at the yes. thank you. time, pat buchanan is running robert: the first question is a his anti-illegal immigration lot like trump. campaign. perot, trump, sensitive about their wealth, believe their wealth, because they were able to accumulate them. he gives them entry to the people. when trump came out with his net worth, it was important for him to assert himself as someone who a populist campaign. is really worth billions of and trump was actually the dollars. antagonist to be can men in antagonist to on the second point, i wrote a piece recently about the tension between the bush and trump 1999, even though in family.

trump is not like perot. fred trump was a well-to-do real estate developer. trump, in the same way perot, always speaks of himself as an outsider in the money class. he does not see himself part of it. not because of how he speaks. he does not feel except it by 2015 people think he is the anti-immigration campaign, in 1999 he was saying buchanan was too far to the right. trump used to be really opposed to you. he said pat buchanan would never be a serious contender. pat buchanan said, look what i'm wearing. he flipped his tie and he was wearing a trump tie. brian: you can't find those ties at macy's. robert: trump has taken a hit. he has never articulated with it, but he's in touch daily with what is happening in his business. he is still running his business for the most part as he runs for president. i don't think he expected this wave of opposition to him. that comment, they are rapists, it hurt him. trump associates told me that it rattled him. he persevered and he is still in the polls.

brian: we are going to switch a little bit to you. robert: gosh. great. [laughter] brian: what town did you grow up in? robert: i was born in richmond, virginia, but i grew up in bucks county pennsylvania, north of philadelphia. i went to pennsbury high school. about 4000 students. it is in lower bucks county. levittown area. old steel mill town. not a lot of steel mills there anymore. a lot more walmarts and small businesses and that kind of thing. corporate offices, corporate parks. i loved it growing up there. i still have a huge affection for bucks county. i love pennsbury high school. public school for me was great, because you interact with thousands of different students, different backgrounds. brian: why did your twin brother go to a catholic school? robert: my dad is a longtime attorney for a pharmaceutical company. mostly working for bristol-myers squibb.

in 1998-2000 we were living in england. he got transferred for his pharmaceutical job. in 2000 we come back to go to high school and we had these choices of where we were going to go. we came from the same town we had been living in. i did not want to go to an all boys school. i thought the public school seemed fun, different, so i did that. it was good because i love my brother, james, but we were constant twins when we were growing up and when we went to separate schools, we were more of our own people. brian: what is your brother doing now? robert: he lives there wrigley field as a consultant for price water. brian: i have a book of yours that i sat down. one of the main characters in here is you. robert: it is a nonfiction book. it is 2002. i am at pennsbury high school. michael bamberg said he is going to write about my high school's prom. it is well known and held in the gym.

it is a special event. he thought he could capture small-town america, the suburbs in the time of 2002-2003. the iraq war is going on. it is post-9/11. as a writer at the time, i was 15 or 16 years old. i was writing for the local paper, covering concerts. i would get two tickets, take a girl on a date, get paid $50. brian: you did not have a car. robert: i didn't have a car for a long time because i couldn't pass the test. i had people drive me to school. i did eventually get a car around 17-years-old. brian: here is what he writes in the early part of the book cost up -- costa was well-connected and unusually sharp. how did he determine you were the second-best debater?

robert: we had a great debate team at pennsbury and i'm still involved with it, coaching and at judging events. there were people accumulating more points who were older. eventually i got the point record. brian: you talked a lot to this guy. robert: i did. he and i connected as reporters, i guess. when i was 17-years-old, i realize this "sports illustrated" guy, i was interested in him. he thought of me as his narrator. we had great conversations. we would go get a slice of pizza. my parents thought it was strange. bamberg and i are still very close friends. he is a great guy, a big golf writer for "sports illustrated." my parents, who with this writer you are hanging out with from "sports illustrated?" he is probably one of the biggest inspirations in my own life. bamberg did not need to get to

know me, and he ended up writing a book but he also taught me as a writer to think about what you are seeing, not just cover the quote. if you ever read a bamberger article, he rarely quotes anyone. tell the story. tell what you are seeing, what is really happening. i thought about him the other day when i saw congressman coming over to watch trump. they are taking selfies. sitting members of congress. that is compelling. members of congress trying to grapple with the trump phenomenon. that comes back to him. don't cover the speech, cover what is around. he is a teacher, a friend, a mentor. brian: here is one other one i want you to read. rejection turned robert into a 14-year-old populist. robert: i did not get into an elite school in new jersey.

i was dumbfounded at the time. i think i messed up the interview. sometimes i think i'm a little too lively. i did not do well on the interview. i thought to myself, who cares? this elite prep school, who cares? i'm going to go to pennysville very and do well there and love it. it was the best thing that ever happened to me, going to pennsbury high school rather than stuffy lawrenceville. brian: what about the populist? it says, before long he had renounced his parents' republican politics. robert: in high school, i thought edward dale, his love of sports, is gregarious gregarious personality, going to pennsbury high school,

a much more blue-collar school. i was definitely left of center. i registered as a democrat in high school. my parents are moderate republicans. i wasn't political. i wasn't into it. i loved politics. one of my favorite things growing up was the war room documentary with clinton. a book, "first in class." keeping note cards out of georgetown. i always try to pick up things. i always try to pick up things. who are these great leaders? how do they become great? how do they work with people? how do they improve themselves? brian: what was the impact of this book, "wonderland," this book on you? robert: it was interesting to have a snapshot of your life. i did not know what he was doing with the book. i thought it would become a fiction thing. it is nonfiction. the big part of the book is judged to get john mayer to play at prompted i did not have any

connections. why not just ask? my parents are phenomenal and great people, but we never had connection to any power or great people. why not just try it? i push for him to come. i failed at first. i was a music critic and i learned about the music industry, and who has power. brian: didn't you irritate him? robert: i irritated a lot of people. he succumbed to our invitation. he was great. why not have some fun and play some songs? it was. it was pure. it wasn't about money. brian: how big was he? robert: big. it was 2004. he had won grammy awards. he played at the rock 'n roll hall of fame with paul simon the night before. he drove in and went to a burger king across the street and met him there. it is a moment i will never forget. pennsbury high school is old brick and 1970's. i say it lovingly, people compare it to a jail. i think it was designed by someone who may have done a prison. to have mayer with his guitar on his back and to play songs about high school to my class, it was a wonderful moment. brian: here is a very bad video we are going to run.

is hard to hear, so you have to listen closely. let's run this about the night of the senior prom. and you're in this. recording] >> for the past two years, has been doing some special things in pennsbury. [cheering] leading some special people to pennsbury. he's got that special pride. let's bring out your president, bob costa. [loud cheering and applause] robert: ladies and gentlemen, class of 2004, i want everyone to remember the year. ladies and gentlemen, when you

-- will hen you put your hands together for mr. john mayer? [wild cheering] brian: how much did you have to pay him? robert: nothing. brian: nothing? robert: i did not pay him a cent. brian: why did he come for nothing? robert: i think you can connect with people and say let's have a human moment. let's have some fun. not everything needs to be about agenda or marketing. there was no corporate tie-in. it was a musician playing songs for his audience at a high school gym. it was great. people still talk about it in my class. it also raised expectation for future proms. if john mayer comes, what else can i accomplish? i like to think that if my whole

class thought if mayer comes, anything is possible. we were normal suburban kids with no connections. mayer came to our party. brian: how many songs did he sing? robert: he sang three. "no such thing," "your body is a wonderland," and a little prince at the end. brian: he said you knew the alerts before he recorded them. robert: he was one of my favorite artists. i covered hundreds of concerts in high school. there was something about going downtown to philadelphia. i would go down 95 and have a girl with me or friend and i would get them to be the photographer for the "times." we would have our passes. going into the city, when i finally had a car, it was a big part of growing up. it hurt my grades. my parents were concerned i was covering too many concerts. but i saw so many artists. i interviewed the grateful dead, the counting crows, dave matthews band. all my heroes, i got to interview them and i wrote straight reporting about them. mayer, i interviewed him.

i was always fascinated by the people i would sit next to. their girlfriends, their wives. i interviewed them. that is the fascinating things about reporting on the music industry, which i may go back to, which is what is the story behind these people? the maroon five played a free concert. one of my favorite moments in my high school is that maroon five brought the bus in and i went into the home at room -- home ec room and they in all the cookies. a month later, they broke big. just do it. try. don't worry about anything else. just go for it. i can walk away from all of this tomorrow. have fun, try, and don't be tense about it. brian: you wrote for the "national review" for a while. you wrote, since january 2015 for the "washington post." some people think the post has become more conservative, hiring people more like you that are

s to beeral democrat reporters. i'm talking about people who think they see bias. you have several columnists on the op-ed page that are conservative. do you have any sense that is being done on purpose? robert: no, i don't think so. steve ginsburg, marty baron, they want in-depth coverage and when you look at my hire, we are just people who love covering the republican party. i think they are adding depth to the ranks, which was a strong team. this is an organization that prizes its objectivity, the way it goes at things straight, and it wants to get more information. i don't consider it an ideological paper in any way. i'm surrounded by colleagues who are driven to break news and go deep. and that is really it. whether it is the white house team, or the campaign team or congress, we want to own it. we don't want to have right, we don't want to have left, we want

to own our story. we want to beat our rivals. we want to get as much as possible on the front page. my heroes, beyond caro, is bob woodward. get the documents, report on what you know. he has been a friend to me and others on the staff to say, remember at the end of the day, all this talk about our we left, are we right, is noise. get the documents, get the interviews, get the stories. ryan: not what is sure sense ?bout people that read you do they read you in hard copy or do they read you online. robert: mostly online. twitter has been a real tool for me because it is my notebook. i know something is accurate, i put it on twitter. when things are hot on a campaign trail, i was breaking news all the time. i embrace social media. i will only try to do more in 2016. i think print still matters. a-one -- if is on

a-1 of thes on "washington post," people sit up. brian: who has been maddest at you? robert: a lot of people. one thing i tell anyone who wants to go into journalism is if you have thin skin, don't do it. at the top level, it is cutthroat, people are constantly angry at you, you will be bullied. people can be bullies one day, friends the next great i have had congressman screen any. i have had aides rough me up and say they will never talk again. you can't go in think he will be fun all the time. it is a rough business. it is about power. it is rough and tumble. brian: one last question. when have you felt power the most, whether it be in high school, the national review, washington post, or any other time? robert: i think -- i don't think of it in terms of power, but in terms of moving something, i broke the story the shutdown was ending and i saw the market just take my tweet and cnbc wrote an

article about it. one tweet sent the market. that was interesting to watch. i love breaking news. if i can make a political insider say i know that, that is power in a political sense. -- power in a journalism sense. brian: robert costa, thank you very much for joining us. washington post political reporter. robert: my pleasure. thank you. >> for free transcripts, or to give us your comments about this q&a.org.visit us at our programs are also available a c-span podcast.

here are enjoyed this, some other programs you might like. washington post correspondent talking about politics with university students. carol and tom wheeler talk about their experience working campaign. and pat buchanan on the greatest back, the come political career of richard nixon. you can also find these on c-span.org. journal,xt washington the ethics and policy center reviewing the pope's visit to end the controversy on the funding for planned parenthood. and the small business administration talking about global is this leaders who think global inequality is eighth areas threat to the economy -- a

serious threat to the economy. could be costers billions of dollars. washington journal's live at 7:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. ♪ pope's visit to the united states. at first stop beginning three: 45. live with the president and mrs. obama to greet the pope. c-span,y morning on c-span radio, and c-span.org. official welcome to the white house. startingthe afternoon at four :00, the canonization at the basilica of the national shrine of the immaculate

conception. c-span coverage begins from capitol hill as pope frances makes history becoming the first pontiff to address a joint congress. and the general united nations assembly on c-span, c-span radio, and c-span.org. 9/11, the pontiff hosts a memorial. follow the coverage of the popes and historic trip to the united states on c-span.org. ♪ >> all persons having business -- re the supreme court, >> number 759. 18, wrotets number against wade.

roe versus medicine is probably the most famous case these courts have ever decided. legallyry was not recognized. >> putting the brown decision into effect would take presidential orders and the presence of marshals and the courage of children. cases thatd to pick would change the direction of society. [gavel slamming down] told them they would have to have a search warrant. she demanded to see the paper and to read it. they refused, so she grabbed it out of his hand to look at it. the police officer

handcuffed her. >> i cannot imagine a better way to bring the constitution to life than telling the stories behind the great supreme court cases. he boldly opposed the internment of japanese americans. after being convicted of failing to report for relocation, he took his case all the way to the court. >> quite often in the most tooks decisions, the court a position that that was unpopular. bags if you had to pick a freedom that was the most essential to the running of democracy, it would be freedom of speech. >> let's go to a few cases that illustrate what it means to live of 310 million different people who stick together because they believe in the role of law.

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