it is interesting how like the teaching on divorce and contraception -- the more we get social science research, the more we realize the body is something that god has created to work in a certain way. contraception has problems. there was a conference about a month ago in georgetown called a contraception conundrum where people with no religious affiliation came to talk about the difficulties of contraception and how bad it is for women's health. that is just on a secular level that we ought to be questioning some these things we take as given. same thing with divorce. remember 20 or 30 years ago when they say kids are resilient? split,parents are they be happy in the research says that's not true. there is wisdom to the church's teachings. we have to open our years and try to discover that even if we have hesitancy and doubts. that is what the pope is saying

iesbring those hesitanc and bring those doubts. host: we believe that there. the rice hasson is executive director of the catholic women's form at the ethics and public policy center. thank you for your time. up next on "washington journal," we will be joined by karen mills and current senior fellow at harvard business school. we will talk about income equality and how it is impacting u.s. competitiveness. our weekly euromoney segment, we will take a closer look at student loans debt relief programs and the potential cost to taxpayers. we will be right back. ♪

>> all persons having business before the honorable and supreme court of united states are admonished to draw and get their attention. >> number 759. >> marbury and madison is probably the most famous case this court ever decided. >> existed as enslaved people here on the land or slavery was not legally recognized. >> putting the brown decision into effect would take presidential orders and the presence of federal troops and marshals and the courage of children. >> we wanted to take cases that change the direction and import of society and that also change society.

♪ so she told them that they would have to have a section and she demanded to see the paper and to read and see what it was. once they refused to do so, she grabbed it out of his hands and looked at it. thereafter, the police officer handcuffed her. >> i cannot imagine a better way to bring the constitution to life them by telling the human stories behind great supreme court cases. opposed the forced internment of japanese americans during world war ii. after being convicted for failing to report for relocation, he took his case all the way to the spring court. -- to this up in court. >> quite often, our famous decisions where the ones where

the court took a decision that was quite unpopular. >> if you had to pick one freedom that was most essential to the functioning of democracy, it has to be freedom of speech. >> let us go through a few cases that illustrate very dramatically and visually what ofmeans to live in a society 310 million different people who have helped stick together because they believed in a rule law. -- in a rule of law. >> landmark cases -- an exploration of 12 historic supreme court decisions and the human stories behind them. a new series on c-span, produced in cooperation with the national constitution center, debuting monday october 5 at 9:00 p.m. >> as a companion to our new series, "landmark cases" the book. if you just the 12 cases for the serious with a brief introduction to the background,

highlights, and impact of each case, written by tony mauro. inlished by c-span cooperation with congressional quarterly press, "lynn when marquesas is landmark cases" is available for $8.95. announcer: "washington journal" continues. host: karen mills now serves as a senior fellow at harvard business school and joins us to discuss the results of the school's recent reports, including the 2015 survey on u.s. competitiveness. before we talk about the results, what is that survey and why do you do it? guest: every year, we go out and ask the harvard business school alumni their views on whether this country is improving in its competitiveness or falling behind. this year, we found some really interesting results and we asked

some additional questions about how business was dealing with what we call both growth and shared prosperity. that led to some insights, which i know we're going to talk about today. host: we will be going through that report as well as some of the other work of the harvard business school. i on once up to put the lines for the viewers. democrats --(202) 748-8000. .epublicans --(202) 748-8001 let's get right to the results. it found the results of the ng,ironment improvi but prospects are dimmer. why are they not improving at the same time? guest: it is interesting that the results diverge. one of the definitions of competitiveness has two parts.

we believe the u.s. cannot be competitive without both of the parts. that is that we compete in the global economy and that the growth, but also that we improve the standard of living for the average american. both growth and shared prosperity. there's a lot of reasons why you need both to be competitive. what we found in the survey is that the economy is doing half of its job. not -- halfde be may not be all that well. the business is thriving in the stock market is up, but the worker is not improving. income is stagnating in the middle class -- and the middle class gold age and did some years ago. can the u.s. remain competitive with that divergence? sharedxplain the term prosperity. guest: one of the things we know

is there is a chum in this economic anxiety around the country. ,f you travel around as i did people really do not think that the american dream is available to them. more than 50% of the people in the country think that their children might not be better off than they are. so what is causing this anxiety? really it is because this whole fabric that we had in postwar america where there was opportunity and if you worked hard that you can get ahead, that feels less true. you know what? it is lester. -- less true. if you look at income, it has not increased for the segment. in fact, 1% of the country has taken a very large share in the past 20 years of all the gains. so the average american feels that maybe the american dream is disappearing for them. problem is what we

call shared prosperity. we need to both grow the economy and broadly shared prosperity that creates. host: talk about your findings about whether this is a priority at least for those who responded to the survey, graduates of the harvard business school, who often go on to start their own businesses or serve at the highest levels of businesses in the country. guest: i am very pleased to have an insight into the business world at the harvard business school because business is such an important component of driving our competitiveness, both on the growth and shredded -- shared prosperity peace. what we found is that business really thinks that shared prosperity is a problem, not just for the country, but for their own businesses. this was true among all the respondents. we note that it is a critical part of competitiveness. is aware that they maybe can do something about it.

the respondents to the survey from the harvard business school -- in this report, here is one of the charts. the distribution of future income gains. the predicted distribution, the richest 1% will get 41% of those gains. 23% and richest 19% -- so on down the line. here is what they would prefer. about an equal distribution among all the various groups in this country among the quintiles of wealth. d think that desire comes through -- do you think that desire comes through in most americans that most would prefer that distribution? guest: we set out to look at this and understand what we can , asbout it as politicians people from government, but also as business leaders. it turns out that there is a tremendous amount that we all can do together. what we did is that we gather

together about 70 leaders from both sides of the aisle. there were mayors, they were governors, there were ceos. and we ask this question. if you want to solve this problem, is this a problem and what are the solutions? we brought them together for a day and a half in june at the harvard business school. what we are releasing today is the report of that convening. we saw that business leaders not only want to solve that problem, but they are actively working in cities and towns and communities across the country. we had the mayor of minneapolis and we had some of the key ceos and they have already formed a coalition to get after things or pre-k-12ucation education. making an environment for innovation and entrepreneurship and making sure the infrastructure is sound. these are areas of what we call the commons, the things that are

able to be a foundation for an opportunity for what we call shared prosperity. the coalitions of these business leaders can really make a difference, at least for now on the local level. host: do you think the average worker trust that the desire is really there or that the average worker believes that business elites are china to get the most at the system for th -- i try to get the most out of the system for themselves and to hell with the average person? average business leader is very smart in the average person is very smart. from their perspective, they do not care what is going on up here. they want to know -- am i getting the kinds of things i need to have access and opportunity? am i getting the skills that lead me to a job? am i getting a loan when i need a loan? we can survive if we think carefully about their problems. we can provide those kinds of solutions by working together.

it does not cost much money. so i am optimistic and i think positivefelt quite after seeing things that work. the problem is that we are not moving the needle. we are not having a national conversation about these kinds of solutions in a bipartisan way. host: karen mills ran a small from 2009-2013 and is now at the harvard business school and talking about a few of the reports out from the schools. first in northport, florida on the line for a broken republicans. you are on with candles. caller: my father started a business in 1962 and we are still in business today. it is very difficult. where is our future? where are we going to be in the next five years? as a business owner, it is very

difficult to stay in business because of the way the economy is and everything like that. know --, i just want to where is the future of the united states? first of all, our country became a service country. we don't build anything. we need to bring the steel industry back, the garment industry he lost the garment lost the-- and we garment industry to china and other countries. i do not see the future of the united states if we do not continue to bring things back to united states as a building country and not a service country. guest: first of all, i'm glad to talk to you because small business really is the key to the american comedy. half of the people who work in this country own or work for a small business. two out of every three net new jobs are created by small business p but you ar. but you're right. small business has been feeling the headwinds.

the the economy suffered in great recession, it was really small businesses that suffer the most and particularly because capital just froze. one of the things that we are able to do is get $30 billion each year back into the hands of a small businesses. there is still a gap. one of the things that i think we need to focus on his driving the ecosystem that lets small-business do what they knew -- do best. small business creates jobs, but we just need to give them tools. there are three categories -- access to capital, people with skills -- you need to make sure you have hired skilled workers -- and an ecosystem, a set of innovation and things that help the small business act like they're big. the problem with small business is that they are small and their disney. -- and they are busy. i think all those things are possible to work on. another piece is that small

businesses want sales. coming up now is is a whole set of export agreements and making sure those regulargreements are and have rules that are positive for small business owners. that is a critical piece of making sure we can compete in global markets, even on the small business front. host: if you are an entrepreneur, is now a good time to start a small business or are some of the challenges you are talking about something you might address down the road? if you could wait, would it be a better time to wait to start a small business? tost: anytime is a good time start a small business. entrepreneurs do not wait for a good time. some of the best bond businesses were started in our recent recession. -- small businesses were recently started in a recent -- in our recent recession.

there is opportunity everywhere and my country right now. that more make sure americans get access to the opportunity. there is capital available. right now, venture capital goes to very few states. 70% go to california, massachusetts, and new york. what about that great entrepreneur in texas and oregon? we know they have great businesses, so we need to make sure they get started. host: charlotte in tallahassee, florida. good morning. caller: good morning and thank you for taking my call. i have an admission could i am also very concerned about the common spirs. the comments for me represent the k-12 infrastructure and the ecosystem and infrastructure technology. seem to mencorporate that they got away from bringing

in college graduates and giving them a 90 day or inclusion training with culture and practicum and fury as it relates -- theory as a relates to the corporate business. you lost the middle manager jobs in terms of accounting and moving offshore with their consultancy contracts. we now are seeing our young people who are yeah -- graduating with masters with phd's and are underemployed. going to that we are bridge, as you stated earlier, the national conversation that bridges, as john stated, a or ae foundation program consensus of how we will bridge demand for sales for small businesses? because without people who have

money, small businesses cannot grow because they do not have customers could without corporations offering opportunity in that they have offshore many of the injury -- entry level technology prop forward. -- brought forward. in the context of our call center jobs, the banks used to have thousands of jobs available. the financial services had thousands of jobs. when we had the recession, we --t white-collar jobs 500,000 white-collar jobs were the from 2008 until current. we have not replaced those jobs. we replaced the jobs with low wage jobs, service jobs, home health jobs, and restaurant jobs. the small metro suburban towns in america -- host: i want to let karen mills

jump in. guest: this caller raises a number of great points. let me come back to where you started, which was the comments. -- the commons. you mentioned that there is this infrastructure of really important basics in this country that builds our country after world war ii. so really good k-12 education, a great public university and community college system that provided skilled workers a terrific sense of entrepreneurship and innovation, and your basic roads and bridges a all this provided a strong foundation and to the 1980's or the 1990's and now we are not investing in the commons. when we looked at this at the harvard business school convening that we had, we realized that what we call this systematic underinvestment in

the commons, this is affecting the ability of many americans to enjoy this shared prosperity. they do not have the skills. they do not have a high school education. so how can we go back and reinvest in those commons and whose responsibility is it? the government in washington is divided. there is too much debt. there is not enough cash. in the local environments, we are now seeing distances take it -- businesses take a leadership role and we believe this is a critical factor. in skills, it usedskill to be businesses would say, i will post a job and soon enough a skilled worker will show up at my door. that is no longer the case. businesses are worrying that they cannot find skilled workers. there seems to be a mismatch in the marketplace.

the supply side and the demand side are not talking. toinesses are not connected the committee colleges. the student comes in and gets a degree or certificate and then finds out that that is not valued in the job market place . if we can connect those like andnesses in south carolina columbus, ohio, and indianapolis, we can make a more efficient system for companies to get skilled workers. what we say is that a business needs to pay as much attention to its supply chain of human capital as it does to its supply chain of materials. host: harvard business school graduates in that report were asked to assess the elements of the u.s. business environment in 2015. here is the chart. among the weaknesses of the u.s. business environment and weaknesses that were getting worse, the u.s. political system , the tax code also listed in

american health care and k-12 education system. among the strings in the u.s. business environment -- communication and infrastructure, property rights, for management, innovation, capital markets, universities, and want your ship. read more about this report, check it out at the harvard business school website. it is the 2015 survey on u.s. competitiveness. our guest for the next 20 minutes or so -- karen mills, a nextw there richard is up in massachusetts. go ahead. caller: the problem i see is that the prices of things that are being made his way out of line. -- is way out of one. i do not see why the congress people cannot meet with the big ceos of presidents of all these big corporations instead of going on vacation every two months or three weeks and meet

with them and find out why their products are so expensive and show how we get to that point. that is the problem. it is not the wages. you cannot give somebody who is even qualified -- you can hire minimum wage. what are your qualifications? they never ask qualifications. we need better jobs. almost 5 million jobs that sell in this economy because people are uneducated to do it. host: you are saying it is a disconnect between the political leaders in the country and the concerns of the business community? caller: yes. why is your product so expensive? it is easy to meet with them. this is what i cannot understand. host: let us let karen mills jump in. guest: you raise a number of

good points. are 5 millionere jobs right now that are unfilled. that goes back to my earlier point that there is a mismatch between the people who are looking for work and the people with all the stops. that is why we have to invest in the areas of the commons what i talked about, like making sure our education works, and business has a big role in that. to your question about business and government and how much things cost, it is very, very hard. i think that there is a real point here about wage stagnation. ,hen your wages do not go up but the cost of products go up, it is hard to buy them. wages asave stagnant d ofave had over this perio time for the median income and

most of the gains go to a very small number in terms of wage increases, then the average american cannot buy as many things. that is not good for business. host: what would you say to him on twitter who says we cannot afford to invest in infrastructure because we are spending all our money on social security and medicare? guest: one of the great difficulties of the last 20 years is that we have had a hobbled government in terms of the resources that we have. we invested for years after world war ii in infrastructure and education. we had a number of things -- wars and entitlement spending -- that have squeezed our budget. whether or not we can turn that around near term, one of the things we know is that these things do not cost a lot of money. when you look at how much he can do -- you can do in a state or region by getting

beat businesses and educators and philanthropies together, with a little bit of help from government, maybe it is a competitive grant to get some innovation going, that kind of money actually does not even form a blood in the budget. things that we need to do is spend smarter. the way to do that is to have these collaborations and have everybody at the table so the money goes to the programs that work and the results go to the tople who need to be able get access and opportunity. host: john in louisiana is up next. he is on the line for republicans. go ahead. caller: income inequality -- there are inequalities that exists. -- like i'm old and you're young, that's an inequality. some people are sick and some are healthy -- that's in inequality. i challenge the basic presence

-- premise that the federal government has a job to do the clinton constitution to have -- declared in the constitution to illuminate these inequalities. i would like you to look at the screen here and point to the united states constitution in america which we all live were one of the powers of the federal government is to come out to the population, the individuals, and make a quality in terms of how much they get paid. the quality of other things -- it is not the government job. it is the individuals. when i went to school, i decided what i wanted to do. i set to work to get myself prepared to do that. if somebody comes at a school with a skill that is not even exist and they have an education and something that hasn't used in the world, what do you expect is going to happen to them?

it is not the government that has to come down to that person and say, look, you have to go to the school and get this indication -- education. that has to be in individual responsibility. the individual has to live with the results of their decision. host: i'm going to let karen mills jump in. i just want to be clear that the chart that we showed about the preferred distribution of future income gains, that was the preferred distribution of harvardnts to the business school survey. these are individuals in the private sector and business leaders, many are the heads of the industry. they would like to see income distributed in the in coming spirit respond to john's incoming -- in the years. respond to john's question. guest: there is a broad coalition of people across this country that believe we need access and opportunity.

not everybody being equal, but everybody having you opportunity to share in the american dream. this american dream has been miss appearing for many, many folks. let the business community said is that we think this is an imperative for u.s. competitiveness and we are willing to take the lead in it. we think it is important for it isies and we think important for our country. that is a really important i think in this environment it is a positive development because if we can get business leadership, particularly at the local level, if we can get business coordinated better with individuals who want access and opportunity and the education system, we can remove some of these impediments, because do not make -- they do not make any sense. that is what i found in washington, that when you work with the private sector, as we did. we gave loans through banks, and

you can get a lot of things into the hands of the american people, the american small business owners, the american worker, and let them do what they do best. he just have to give them some access and opportunity. karen mills is the former administrator of the small business administration from 2009 22to 2013. there discussing some of harvard business school's results from their report recently . oklahoma city, oklahoma. life for democrats. i would love to see a person of color be a commentator. host: keep watching c-span. one.mise you you will see

caller: as far as being a small-business owner, i am starting another company. for me to start by company there are too many regulations. i have to pay $2500 for a surveyor, this is on my own private property. $2500 for a surveyor, $600 for an engineer, $600 for a soil test of $2600 or blueprints that i could do myself. $300 for parking lot. water acrossnto the street. we talk about small businesses, but all these regulations you guys are killing me. on my supposed to start a business? i've already in the hole, and this is on my private property. it is just ridiculous. there are too many regulations. you need to focus on this. all the regulations that stop

people, entrepreneurs, that want business.n audit we cannot start a business because of all of these regulations. host: karen mills? guest: the issue of regulation is something that i think i have ,eard all across the country particularly from small business owners are one of the things that really concerns them as local permitting of zoning regulations, just like you were theing about it one of encouraging thing that i have seen is that finally mayors and governors have started to address this with technology. there are some really fun innovative entrepreneurs. i am glad that your starting another business, good for you. for one thing that small business owners tell me is i just want to know the answer. i do not want to get two from two answers different regulators.

i just want to know what i need to do, and i will do it. i wanted to be seamless, and i want to have some customer service. small businesses are an important customer of government, and they should be treated with a level of respect for their time. i have seen a couple of companies, over-the-counter is starting up in boston. you will be able to the launcher pervading forms and get a fast answer. that is another thing small businesses need. answer, a correct answer, and then we will take the first crack at getting regulation to a manageable state. host: for independents, good morning. good morning. what i'm talking about right now is what wet to know income have, is the low

people. they are asking for enough to survive, and that is enough. enough to live within the left over to breathe. that is not asking too much. honestly i see greed and hunger on the other side every day. thing please, there is a cold the golden rule. that is the only answer. i'm just asking my leaders and people of my county, treat each other with love, dignity, and respect the matter who we are. bring love to all. please treat each other better . the product your heart -- be proud of your heart. it is the united states. where we separating each other on wages? host: what would you say? people just need enough

to live, and then a little less -- a little left over to survive. prosperity, shared how do we measure whether that is going up or down in america? one of the things that we suggested this report is we should measure this. what made it measured gets it done. prosperity,hared the level of being able to pay your bills and pay for your education and save some for retirement, if we want that to be the standard, why don't we measure what ratio of americans level -- or at that level? for a long time we do not have a way to measure economic growth in this country. we had a whole lot of disparate numbers.

developedtwar era we domestic product, gross national product. and now you hear them in every tv cast. thisis going to measure level of the ability to have for thend opportunity life we have in the american dream? life for democrats. go ahead. seemed the problem is you have people who think they can get ahead, but there are millions of people who go and work everyday and work hard. i look at this as the rabbit and the carrot. as long as the person that is holding the carrot, he dictates how hard the rabbit runs. the rabbit never has the opportunity to catch the carrot. we tell people to work harder, when they are working harder,

working two or three jobs just to maintain. that is crazy. your people with more than can ever spent in their entire life, and many new people who do not have enough to make it. something is wrong with that picture rig. host: do you trust the findings the heads of that a lot of these businesses want sure prosperity? know --eight businesses feel as though we can cut the middleman out and we do not what small business to succeed we wanted to be wiped out, because .e already has enough t if they would stay engaged with our colleges to let colleges know that this is the type of training we need, the colleges can prepare those students for the jobs that are in demand. a degree forkid something he cannot find a job and once he has completed the

program. this caller has it spot on. there are a number of questions that you raised. there are a lot of people out there working hard. how do we make sure that they have more access and opportunity? see isthe things that we that the foundation for people to be able to get ahead in this country has been crumbling. was fun to have a high school education. you could get a good child. we have had pressures of globalization and technology. how do we make sure that we have more people who get the foundation, whether in k-12 education or in skills? input the answer out there. businesses are starting to realize that they have a

responsibility in bringing forth the kind of trained and skilled workforce that is going to be able to earn the income and do the jobs that we need done in this country so we do not have 5 thesen open jobs are people can get together at the table and make a difference. does not cost a lot of money to have a much better match between the supply side and the demand side. and have a much better outcome for the students. it just takes people working together. host: time for a few more calls with karen mills. jackson, tennessee. go ahead. caller: good morning. miss mills, i remember seeing on c-span where the president had business people to come into the white house as he was trying to get them together to find out

what does the united states need to do in order to help them to bring back businesses in this country. about groups of business people getting together. did the politicians get together to help the president with this, to create more jobs in america? i had not seen any of the results from seeing that meeting that took place white house, where he had businesses there asking them what do we need to do it in order to bring back jobs in america? that is what we need. host: i imagine that these are meetings you had often from 2013.o guest: we tried to figure out how to make sure how businesses --this country code thrive

could thrive, and not go overseas. we forget a member of the critical things you have to have this environment. is thatre seeing now pendulum is coming back a little bit. businesses have figured out that they cannot have a supply chain millions of thousands of miles away. smalleed responsive businesses here who can turn around product fast. they need to listen to customers, the need to get things to market right away. you were seeing what we are labeling on short versus off shoring. to thesen, i go back three things that small businesses need. they access to capital, which i are still gaps in

this country and we need to work more on that. they need more entrepreneurial skills. it is hard to be a small business owner. you do not want to reinvent the wheel every time. we did a lot of work on the on the sba. they need ways to get their businesses started faster. we started these accelerators where entrepreneurs can come together in the community and get early funding and get some wethese innovative ideas and still have the best environment for entrepreneurs in this country. that is one thing that came out of the survey that we have not when he worried that the number of new businesses started in this country is actually going down. the. of new businesses as a percent of the other businesses is going down. so what is happening to entrepreneurship?

what may be available for the high dollars a look at -- silicon valley may be going down. what about those small businesses facing regulation we talked about? we have to be sure that that part of the middle class and the , that we remove impediments and we get them access to capital. that we remove this regulatory hurdles they have an having. host: one more caller. richmond, kentucky. caller: conservatives want to tell you that capitalism is the best illuminator of poverty over invented. is it possible that when we were looking at these glories economic times, that socialism did play a role. labor was very strong, it has

been beaten to death. during our best economic times, socialism actually played a role that is gone now. twost: there are answers to this trickleis idea f shared prosperity. trickle down or equal distribution. this collecting all the resources of our country, all leadership from business and government and the college getting unfocused on reinvesting in the comment, we think that provides the kind of love for him saw in the postwar era. that is within our reach. we were optimistic when we gathered our leaders. we just want to make this part of the national conversation. we want to measure