america. that is all tomorrow morning beginning at 7 a.m. eastern. have a great saturday. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] grandma next, -- >> next, republican campaign managers discussed the 2016 candidates. then, governor scott walker dropping out of the race. then, donald trump.

on monday, republican presidential campaign managers discussed their strategy in the 2016 race. by richt was narrated lowry. this event is just over two hours. youtubed all of the ads, the debate one-liners, and the town halls, there is a brilliant campaign manager. today we get to hear from the campaign managers. at google and youtube, we are proud to partner with "national " to inform all americans about the elections process. to knows are hungry

more about the candidates, the elections, the campaign managers. we have seen a 60% increase in election searches since the 2008 cycle. we are proud to do our part today by live streaming this event with "national review" on their youtube channel. allre most proud that now americans can watch this event today, even if you are not part of the beltway elite or living here in town. campaignanye west's manager is taking notes for his into 1120. i now want to turn over to rich lowry. rich: thanks. [applause] thank you to google and youtube for cosponsoring this with us. i would like to say that my logistical suggestion is that we do all of these interviews, in keeping with google, in being

bag chairs. i want to thank all of the campaign managers for making the time to be out here. they are truly in the arena. there is nothing easier than being on the outside and criticizing people for all of the things that they are doing wrong, which i do for a career, but i have never run a campaign, or run for office, or had to deal with the press corps every day. i may have gotten a hint at what it is like. eight weeks ago, my wife and i had our first baby, a beautiful little girl. that is a little bit like dealing with the press corps. she is insatiable, requires feeding. if you displease her, she will whine and cry shamelessly. john brabender is the

chief strategist for rick santorum. thank you for joining us. john: glad to be here. with a bigart out question confronting your campaign and others. it seems that people are not interested in traditional political experience. they are not interested in anyone who has been around the block a few times. your candidate was in the senate 2006,while, but left in and has run for president once before, and has been around for a while now. how do you make him fresh and new, or is that even necessary?

structureunctionally the campaign differently because we are not in the 1960's anymore. what i find enjoyable, because i do a lot of press for the andtor, going on the air, stuff. i am asked the exact same questions that i was asked for years ago, when he said, you have a candidate, he lost his last race by 18 points -- rich: i have not brought that up yet. john: i'm there. he lost by 18 points. running last. i will tell you, last time, with two weeks to go before iowa, he was in last place and one and i went. the only reason that was so notable is because he was behind jon huntsman, who had pulled out of iowa and said, in iowa all pickig is corn -- all they is corn, and in new hampshire,

they pick presidents. states11 out of the 30 and tied to others. probably the belief was that he wonld have one michigan -- michigan outright. to us, understanding the youidity of these races -- look at cnn yesterday, scott walker is under 1%. , remember having question people asking me, how are you going to stop scott walker. if you go back four years ago, in the lead was herman cain, michele bachmann. romney was there. . lot of people -- perry most of them did not get past iowa. you really have to take a look and understand the way these races are of your the first thing you have to understand is there is not one primary right now, or one caucus.

different people are running against different people. in other words, sure, santorum , orunning against huckabee whatever it is. there are multiple primaries going on. necond of all, no one will wi this race by getting 50%. they will win by getting 15% and 18%. i have been involved in the last four presidential races. i was with rudy giuliani. i can tell you, it was the strangest experience of my life. our war roomanin and see places where giuliani was up. yes, we knew he would have trouble because he would not be conservative enough for republican primary voters. everybody has to take a deep breath and understand that this is unlike any other election.

it is like those races on steroids. john mccain probably got this close to getting out of the race .hen he won the nomination again, i feel like i am answering a lot of the same questions. we don't run on monday, we run on volunteers. there is an interesting statistic out of iowa. rick santorum spent $22 per caucus votes. the benchmark that i keep noticing everybody trying to use is money raised. money raised is not been all that much anymore in republican primaries. trust me, when people walk up and vote on primary days, they are really basing it on ads. i do ads for a living. when you get down to one or two, they matter a lot more, in my opinion. rich: let me press you on my initial question.

analysis thatthe pretty much everyone has bought , carson, andly trump, collectively being above 50% says that people want outsiders, new, and different. is that an artifact of polling that you have seen before? i think there are some exceptions this time. every place i go, people say, are you kidding me, donald trump , are you serious? i went on cnn three weeks ago and said after the first debate donald trump 15 minutes of fame would be up. i was wrong. i think a lot of people supported ron paul last time.

outrageous the rules of of trump -- engagement go out the window. number one, i think there is this desire to be anti-washington, absolutely without a doubt. you have to factor into that too that in the early stages, it is all they know about the candidates. herman cain was an outside washington candidate. people can tell you very little .bout herman cain over time, i think it was proven that he should not be president. i'm not telling you that will be proven about carly, ben carson, or trump, but what i am telling you is that we of gotten nowhere near that where people have made that determination. if you look at the

difference between last time and miketime, you mentioned huckabee. correct me if i'm wrong. i would put an carson in that category, ted cruz, maybe there are a couple i am missing. doesn't that make for a much more crowded and competitive playing ground in iowa than you had last time? , and a muchtely more credible field. last time, we could come in the top three in iowa. once you are in the top three in iowa, there is like a reset -- not the romney reset -- another reset where you shuffle the deck and have a smaller number of candidates. we felt that we could be the conservative alternative because the other candidates that would move forward would not be all that conservative. we saw the path. this time, there are about 16

people running, and none of them are the front runner. in fact, my argument that i've saying, i think this may be the greatest field of any together for history. i do get is a remarkable field. walkermeone like scott is struggling, who, in my opinion, is a very credible , i think they are all well behind and some sense. you look at the polls in iowa. if you take the people at 1% and the people at 7%, it is the vast majority of candidates right now. that shows you how good the field is, not how poor. and some sense, they are all longshots at this point. rich: there is a suggestion from sean spicer that there will not be an undercard debate next time, instead, they will just eat interviews. you can read but need the service, and it sounds like --

eneath the surface. do you think it is correct? john: i think it is a huge mistake at this point to say, ok, we have had two debates, everything is settled. to know how many debates there were last time? 23k santorum participated in debates. the rnc said, no, we will narrow 10-11 debates. not only are we reducing the number of debates, but the person at 3% is in, and the person at 2% is not. case in point. carly fiorina, what if they would have decided that there would not be an undercard? carly fiorina would have never made it into the second debate. i think at this stage, there's nothing advantageous for people

to do that. rich: how would you go about doing it? obviously, the 11 on the stage this time around was too many. i agree. i think they should have done eight and eight, or eight and seven, and random. frankly, i think you want a combination of people. the first debate was actually pretty well covered. they would have done just as well in the second debate, no didt in my mind -- santorum 23 debates ended great less time. to say that someone at 3%-4% is in, and somebody at 2% isn't, statistically, they are tied, and it makes no sense, as a party. this presidential primary is not about winter. it is almost like three-dimensional chess. who is in and who is out will

change the field. donald trump, even if he is not the nominee, will change the selection. you can take somebody out who should be there, but you are giving somebody an advantage. i think it does not make sense. when you're talking about people who are two-term governor's, two-term centers, people who won iowa -- it seems absurd to me. rich: is rick back to what he did last time, pounding the ground in iowa, visiting pizza ranch after pizza ranch? john: right now i'm doing the avernor's race in louisiana, number of governor and senator races next year. every one of those races is different. every campaign has to be run different. and santorum, you have to remember, he has not been an

elected official since 2006. he is not an elected official that can raise money. believe me, it is difficult to raise money. he does not have a tv show like .rump or mike huckabee did his last name is not bush. he has to deal with the fact that he is not ever going to have money like they will. on the other hand, what he has in thesset, and that is republican primary, the most conservative, or most likely to vote, and they see him as a very trusted conservative. then, you go into the pro-life community, or the homeschool community, and that is how he ended up winning iowa last time. not on iowa caucus night, but eventually he did. rich: let me hit you with two lightning round style questions that i hope to ask everyone. what is the one moment, or the one move from another campaign

or candidate that made you think, that was good, i wish i would have thought of that? enduring is the most quality of rick santorum that all of us on the outside might not be privy to. signing a pledge to run for the republican party -- rich: why? john: about two weeks ago, i think there was a shift in the trump campaign. they tried to be more credible. in the debate, he was more careful to choose his words. rich: do you think he can win? john: before, i would have said no. i will tell you, the oddity of what i'm seeing out there is incredible. i'm dealing with a lot of state elections where i'm seeing trump'spopularity --

popularity. let's put it this way. i thought herman cain could never possibly be the campaign, i thought he had problems. i thought newt gingrich could never be the nominee. think about it. chris christie was supposed to be the plane talk in one. trump stole that from him. trump has stolen something from all of every candidate that has hurt them and help himself. therefore, with this many people in the field, i don't know how rulecan roll them out -- him out. rich: the most enduring quality of rick santorum? john: as media consultant, he does not change my ads. we had one where romney was chasing rick santorum.

he thought i was crazy. big change, ie a don't know about the type font. rich: we appreciate it. thank you. good luck. [applause] chip, welcome. chip englander of the rand paul campaign. start with af version of the same question i asked john, which is there seems to be this emphasis on candidates who are new and different, who do not represent politics as usual. i think one year ago, or so, people would have said, who does that describe that will very likely be a candidate -- rand paul, but that does not seem to have applied to him yet? why is that? chip: there is a hunger out

there. they are sick of the system and want to shake things up. as you mention, one year ago, that was maybe something very strongly associated with him. the reality is, and john talked about it quite a bit, it is a fluid race. things go out, things go down. you may have seen the news breaking about governor walker, getting out of the race tonight, and this is a guy who was a few months ago number one. if you look for years ago, -- four years ago, michele bachmann gingrich -- newt and none of those false finished in the top two. in the mike huckabee single digits. higherdean out by a margin, and he loses by 20. this is how these things go.

that is what makes a a lot of fun. if it was easy, everybody would do it. rich: another batch of people were raised with you guys. that has shaped the environment and a way that is perhaps difficult to deal with. with james boyd, public opinion shifted in a hawkish direction, certainly among republicans. people think that makes it rand thaning for they would have thought. there is that shift in public sentiment, and has this made it tougher for the campaign? chip: rand follows the ronald reagan doctrine of peace through strength. he believes america should have the greatest military in the world. it does not mean that we should be for interventions for the sake of intervention. he did oppose unnecessary interventions and libya -- in

libya. he opposed the arming of isis' allies in syria. armsfights us with western . we have to be very careful on our foreign policy approach and have responsible for policy to keep america safe. rich: did you feel the shifts in public opinion? i certainly would not want to talk about the politicization of the headings. rich: it is not that the beheading itself is letter-size, but after people saw that, you looked at the numbers, and even for ground troops, in theory, to fight isis, in some polls, you see majority support for that, which seems to be an issue environment that is much different than immediately after the bush years, when there was a reaction on the right.

we were involved i too much. wep: rand thinks that if have boots on the ground, it .hould be arab boots that is the area it most impacts, and we don't want to send our men and women to go and die. that is where a lot of americans are and where the classic american policy has been historically. this to you,to do but let's talk a little more about trump. if you weeks -- if you weeks ago, i rand started going after him. it certainly did not seem to help him. what was the thinking behind the tactic. will you keep it up going forward? 538, a few weeks ago, did an analysis of the coverage out there.

trump was getting more coverage than all of the other candidates combined. trump,are not engaging then you are just falling out of the conversation. if he is going to be a front runner, we need to have a conversation about where he stands. rich: what is something that senator paul is particularly trump's to gain from status in the race? chip: he speaks from the heart and about things that he cares about. -- i thinkabout there are many parts of his record that is of concern to many people out there. rich: there are people that will iowa, and most of

them are associated with ted cruz, but they will tell you that he has been able to be into rand paul's libertarian support out there. do you think there is any truth to that? chip: i'm sure ted cruz would tell you that. ted cruz is doing very well. i think things line up very well for us in iowa. caucuses putis -- disproportionate value on passion and organization, which are things we do very well. there are 120,000 students in iowa. four years ago, ron paul finished 3300 votes short of winning the caucus. they were january 3. winter break. this time it is february 1.

it will be the first time in over a decade that the caucus occurs when school is in session, when students will be around. you look at that math and you can see how much opportunity is out there. caucuses, the organization, student strength, that is where we are very well positioned. words, thoser and those in school that love rand paul will be in school in iowa? iowa has doubled the numbers of new hampshire. receive iowa, iowa state, some of the biggest schools in the country. there is a massive student population. strawntioned the cpac

poll. just last weekend, the mackinac straw poll, the biggest one of paul oneso far, rand of carlyat, ahead fiorina. that is indicative of the strength of our organization. rich: talk about a particular aspect of that organization. something that rand paul was pioneer of was the digital, the online organizing. how do you follow that up? chip: the reality is if republicans are going to be competitive, this isn't as simple as going to capture what obama did. if republicans do what obama did, we will lose. there will be a whole evolution in digital. it is a crowd sourced campaign.

we are the only campaign that -- we have bumper stickers and t-shirt contest. we are putting out videos every single week. we are the first candidate to do a snapshot interview. we have all of these followers between twitter and facebook. a lot of these digital things, they have become the 21st century doorknob. rich: the other side of the coin in these campaigns is big dollar fund-raising. there have been reports out there that senator paul does not like doing it that much. is that true? listen, my first cycle was 2000. there are a lot of candidates it is an important part of the campaign. those are stories put out by bad

guys. guys."o name names, "bad chip: he does the necessary things to be successful. rich: john was talking about how everyone is running against a certain set of candidates, not necessarily the entire field. you think that is true? who is rand paul running against? chip: i think we are running against ourselves. people want a bold, transformational leader. i think senator paul is that person. getting out there and talking about our flat tax, and requiring congress to do bills -- i think we are in great shape. on careers real hell politicians. inre was some maneuvering

kentucky for him to run for both governor and senate. if there is something that would define a career politician move, that would be it. it is the reality is -- pretty, and presidential elections for things like that to occur. for vice was running president and reelection in the house. fairly actually a common thing. rich: i think that gets to my point, something that politicians do all the time. chip: is paul ryan a typical politician? rich: he does not deny being a career politician. chip: that would be up to the voters to decide. to how often privy he talks to ron? does ron give him advice? chip: ron has been out a few times. he was at our announcement

speech. rand was in texas doing some fund-raising and ron was at an event. just to become the go, they saw each other in st. louis, at an event where his mom was receiving an award. let me ask you to two questions that i want to ask everyone at the end. is there a moment from any campaign were you said, that was smart, we should have thought about that? what is the most enduring rand paul quality that we may not be aware of? chip: there have been several good moments. i think the way that carly handled trump and the remarks that he made about her appearance, that was well done. rich: she really cut his balls off. [laughter] , his i thought carson

closing statement from two debates ago was well done. s think rubio announced that was well done. as for rand and enduring qualities, -- endearing qualities, for 20 years, he has done free eye surgery. as you know, he is an ophthalmologist. his year, he went to haiti. last year, he went to guatemala to do it charitably. i think that beats to his heart and passion. rich: how long have you known him? chip: i have known him for a few years. and cycles past -- in cycles past, he has supported some candidates that i worked for. rich: we appreciate it. [applause]

rich: we are waiting for danny diaz of the bush campaign. busyght be too reorganizing his strategy in light of the scott walker news. i felt a little bit like dan rather when someone hadn't be a note saying, "ap reporting scott walker leaving the race." 's "the new york times" says that, it must be true. ladies and gentlemen, danny diaz, making his dramatic entrance onto the stage. being with us.

how shocked are you about this walker?scott is surprising. these campaigns are tough. coming out the news of this. i think his press conference is at 5:00 central. i would like to hear it first. he is a good man. rich: let me ask you a couple of questions that come from a conventional narrative about your campaign. you are obviously welcome to push back. guysarrative is that you coming into this with shock and would scarew you some people out of the race, but you knew you would be at a fairly dominant position --

certainly where romney was. of,ead, we see bush, kind you know, 9%, kind of there. you run for president of the united states, you can take nothing for granted and you have to work hard every day. we have a candidate who will not hisutworked, who outworks staff each and every day. we are very confident that our team, our strategy, and everything we put forward has a long game focus. this is not about being rising in it is about february, being competitive, and being able to communicate our message more effectively than anybody else. rich: when you say that he outworks his stuff, tells what that looks like. in 18 hours putting

a day every day to be elected president. anyone who knows him should know that that is not surprising. that is the way he governed for eight years as governor of texas -- florida. from our perspective, that is what we see each and every day. rich: another thing you will he ar often said about the governor is he said, prior to ga getting in, i will only do it if i can do it joyously. it seems like a presidential campaign in this era is not that b, and for guys like je especially this time, when it has been dominated by a guy -- you may not say this, but someone that he considers to be

a clown, donald trump. as someone who looks at it from the inside -- rich: i see what you did there. good. danny: he is having a lot of fun. jeb really enjoys meeting people, hearing their stories. he likes talking about their ideas and policies, and the impact they will have on individuals. rolls out aernor tax policy and is able to talk to real people, and the impact it will have on them. atn he is able to look back a record, particularly in the area of education, he likes a lot. we are having a great time running for president. you may see some a different, but i get to look under the hood. rich: is also taken from

journalists that the low energy jabs from donald trump has gotten under him, and his secret be ace codename will response. danny: ever ready was the term he used when he was governor. is a lot ofe talking and presidential campaigns. i think there needs to be more showing. i'm not worried about september. i've the candidate out there working hard every day, rolling out serious policies -- whether it is how to beat isis, regulatory reform, and on and on. he has a record of performance that is unmatched. he has the best conservative record of accomplishment in the field. i think he has a lot of

credibility when he goes out and says, this is what i'm going to do for america, why? this is my record in florida. billion in tax cuts. eight years of a balance budget. little betterbe a off if we had a record like that from ourrdship country. from our perspective, we know 's story, heell jeb will be the last guy standing. rich: you are a real pro, and have been at this for a while. at any point do you worry that jeb, someone who has not run since 2002, has some rust? danny: no. rich: you think his performance right now is as good as it will be three years from now? danny: i think every candidate

needs to improve every day. that is part of the process. we are working hard every single day. there are always things that can be done differently, or more creatively, or whatever else. about growing, building , winning.ay whore not going to declare the winner is of the baseball team halfway through. you need to get to the playoffs. from our perspective, that is where we are at. ,ich: a couple of months ago the governor made a definitive statement, "i am done talking about donald trump, enough." within another couple of weeks,

he was really deliberately going after him. what changed? his colleagues in the great florida state have a tendency to ask questions focused on one individual. there is that. what needsrspective, to be focused on to a greater degree is the policies he is rolling out, what he is doing regulatoryery day, a policy tomorrow. that is really the crux of the campaign. it is those ideas and those policies. some things may get heightened attention. it is the nature of the beast, if you will. if you look at what the candidate talks about in its entirety and totality, i think

far and away, he is focused on what he believes, what his record is, and how he can help people. rich: there is no moment with somebody sat down and said, you know what, trump would be a summer phenomenon. danny: no campaign will allow attacks to go on responded to. there is an element of that, for sure. you win the presidency by selling. by selling yourself, by selling your ideas. that is the threshold that needs to be cross. we are running for the highest office in a complicated time. when i have the candidate with the greatest record of achievement, the greatest vision to move the country forward, and

has the most credible argument to be a great president, why would i hire that? why would i not put that front and center and make that the crux of what we do each and every day? rich: how seriously are you going to play in iowa and can you survive a fifth or sixth place finish their? danny: we play and play to win. you don't play so lose. from our perspective, we intend to run a competitive campaign and do very well. played a candidate that three times and won the most popular purple state. he left office with something approval rating. we believe, without record of success and policy ideas, we can

compete anywhere, and we will. in iowa? are all in there will not be this cute footsie that mccain, and perhaps romney, played there? danny: we are playing to win. rich: and i would? -- in iowa? danny: in all of the primary states. rich: new hampshire? i get it, playing to win there . how much harder will be in new hampshire, having to deal with john kasich, who, at least early on, has shown some potency in new hampshire, and chris christie, who we can conclude may have more life to him that he has shown so far? those are center-right candidates who are in your lane.

danny: i think the republican party should feel very proud of the embarrassment of riches that we have on the stage. there are a lot of accomplished guys running for the highest office of our land. from our perspective, obviously, we will compete and compete very hard in new hampshire. we have visited their frequently. that will continue to be the case. the issues in new hampshire, like the economic and tax issues and the governor's accomplishments fit nicely. when you look at concern about d.c. being broken, and you look at the reforms he instituted in tallahassee, and the policies he put forward in regard to the term limits, and some of these other areas. those are policies that resonate strongly with those in new

hampshire. we look forward to a spirited conversation with governor christie, and goveor kasich. rich: should i read that as a threat? danny: once again, i think we have the best, most accomplished conservative record, the sound is policies, and we look -- the dest policies, and we look forward to the conversation. trump's pushed back on attack on his brother. ever since then, you have had saying, it is not true. what do you think about the was back on jeb? danny: i think with the governor stated is fairly apparent an obvious for any kind of objective person that is looking at what transpired. hiss very proud of

family, he has said repeatedly, of his dad and brother. i kind of get back to where i was saying earlier, the core message. it is the most personal vote that a voter makes. when you look at the next most personal, it is probably like governor. voters are really going to look at you. they really want to know who you are, what you believe, what you whether they are going to watch you on the television set in the kitchen for the next four years. from our perspective, we need to run hard, tell her story -- tell our story. luckily, we feel we have the resources to do that effectively. we will build a grassroots organization that is technologically savvy, and we will compete to win. rich: copperheads of immigration reform, some version of which, the governor supports, was

defeated in 2006. wasgang of eight hill defeated this time around. marco rubio took a swing almost immediately after that. this is a warning to terry -- >> [indiscernible] [laughter] look of theow, you party, and it looks further right on immigration that even in 2006. how hard does that make it for the governor to sell his position on immigration? two, are you worried that with the talk we have heard on immigration, the well has been polluted some and an element of the campaign of healing to hispanics will be much more difficult? danny: i think the polling clearly demonstrates that people want solutions.

there is a problem they want to resolve. putgovernor has bu forward a copperheads of plan. he has written a book on the issue of immigration. .his is one of those big issues it has been like 30 years since it has been addressed. who has the will to get it all done? maybe the person who dealt with medicaid and florida, a person who had big, big achievements. it is an important issue. debate.a when you talk about governor bush, as i said earlier, he is outstandinghas an performance with hispanic voters in florida. he is someone, even today, polls with37% in hispanic voters. he is someone who can compete. he is campaigning with his arms wide open, bringing people into

the process. i think conservatives can be confident that he is someone who solutionsput forward info for the mechanisms to ensure this is an issue that is addressed, and addressed once and for all. i think the record bears the out -- that out. rich: quickly, the best moment for another campaign or candidate and the most enduring quality? danny: he gives out his e-mail address to everyone he meets. heple e-mail him, and responds. half of them say, this is not kind of the back-and-forth. he is someone that really wants to engage people at a very personal level. i think that is a really important quality in a leader. as far as something that another campaign did that was pretty smart -- i thought the response

fiorina to the donald trump attack was well done. rich: we appreciate it. [applause] terry: thank you very much. [applause] live in an we instant reaction world, any instant reaction to the thing that has not quite happened yet, but reported as happening -- scott walker's exit. hampshire cochair , a littlesed marco bit of news i just got. we are working hard. to capitalize on

it and rich: pick up supporters. rich:rich: how shocked are you? danny: not really. people do not stop running for president because they run out of ideas or desire. theystop running because run out of money. keeping control of a budget is such an important thing. we don't know is that the why, but we assume that is the case. rich: tell us a little more about how lean operation is? what are some examples that other people are doing? staff is soally

expensive. when you are paying staffer threemonth, it is not so bad. when you're paying them for 12 months, it is different. basically everyone on the campaign has taken a pay cut. myself included. everybody who has joined the campaign is making less. to be people in office there because they want to be we releases that is not -- releases. we are all here for one purpose, that is marco. we're not looking for a gordon amounts of money. -- looking for exorbitant amounts of money. every expense over $500 in the entire campaign, i sign a piece of paper.

it is a giant pain in the ass. there are days that i question why i implemented that strategy. i was asked from a staffer, can we bump it up to $1000? some of these county fairs, they want a table, and the table is a little over $500, and it has become onerous. i said, do you think there are cases where we are not getting a table at such and such event because of this, because it is such a pain? yeah.id, i said, perfect, this is working. no one lost the presidency because they did not have a table at the manchester affair. .hat is not why you win we hardly give out anything as far as bumper stickers or yard signs. you can go to to the website to buy them. to bepeople have to pay

part of the campaign? terry: absolutely. and, you can sponsor someone. people say, we need this or that , and volunteers say, we need it in our air yeah. great, go on the website, and we will send it anywhere you want. or, find a donor. find someone to spend $100 on the website, and it happens. it works. say, it isis, you only $100 here are there, but it a mindsetnd creates that is different. marco flies commercial, always coach. we just booked a frontier airlines flight for him today, which is a special hell for anybody. we will put the resources where it matters. when you look at winning campaigns and losing campaigns, it is all about how much money

they have in the direct voter contact. it is not about how much stuff, or anything else. one thing you will hear is , at least prior to the bump happening from the last debate, one reason that rubio is so little is he needs bush to fizzle on thephy launchpad. any truth to that? theush fizzling on launchpad? terry: we need everybody not named marco to fizzle. we think they will. it is no disrespect to them, there can see, or their campaigns. it is just that we are building

haul.for the long we have a candidate designed for the long haul in that he will not make headlines every day. he will not come up with the the debate.er at he will be the guy, over the course of the debate, where you i believe that voters want to elect someone president that they can drink a beer with, but know is responsible not to drink too much so they can drive them home afterwards. that is what it comes down to. rich: he is paying you a cut rate for this? terry: he just pays me and beer beer.- in look, you want someone who is a little more responsible, but you

them still. with that is where marco is that. you watch them on stage, and this is a guy who can talk east coast versus west coast rap , and is the best among foreign-policy experts. to have someone like that is the unique candidate. we are fortunate that way. rich: to simplify and sum up itt you said, you are making that on his talent? terry: yes. in or bs,ds like spai but every campaign has to bet on their candidate.

you have to. if you try to make your candidate someone who they are visibility -- e have visibility to see through the bs. at the end of the day, this is who are candidate is. our job is to say why it is a good thing, not to say it is this, or that. when you try to make voters believe that someone is something they are not, it does not work. rich: speaking of having a dim view of candidates is the late and great udall, who came out on the podium and said, the voters have spoken. you make is that on his talent. the criticism you will hear of

this strategy is that it is much candidates who have a clear ideological base, like kasich., or john , the way i think cruz would in the past -- in the south. so looks, neither of our nominees have had either of the things for quite a while. about which of the legs of the three legged stool -- which is your line in this. these reporters say, it is a said -- it is a three-legged stool for a reason. republicans do best when they embrace all three legs. if you're only a one legged candidate, you can't stand up. extent, we are not a

niche candidate where we have only have one lane and we are really going to double down on that lane. we also don't scare anybody. yes, you have to become first choice of enough people. but the pathway to do that is not to be scary to any part of the party. ted cruz diehard supporters who think yet, i like marco rubio. there are diehard jeb bush supported your likes, i like marco rubio. that's important. marco said to me a long time ago, i would never want to be the nominee of a whipped party. to that point, if you don't have a sustainable party and you are candidate,inable then what's the point? you should not abandon your principals, but you should

weolutely not sacrifice -- have seen candidates get hurt by that. totrying to overcompensate try to win a primary and then have to backtrack. >> was there ever a moment when you set down, saw trumps rise -- rise, and -- trump's considered what to do about a? or do you consider just noise in your long-range plan? >> no. a couple of things. , let's look at historically speaking who has been in first place at this point. the second week of september, is based on polling -- public polling four years ago last week, be front runner was

rick perry by 11 points. eight years ago it was hillary clinton by 16 points. you can kind of got back from there. the point is, early polls do not mean anything. theou are in first place week of september you are guaranteed to not be the nominee of your party. there would be nothing worse in my mind than being in first place right now. it is terrible. andere in first for a while that was actually the time when i was most concerned. because then the new york times writes stories about how big the windows are in your house and how well manicured your yard is. we are very happy. ideally i would want to be in first place on one day, if has to be a few more than that i am ok with it. "national review talk --

to me about performance. as i understand it, senator rubio supports every part of that but just wants to do it on a different timetable. is that correct? rry: no one has ever paid me for my policy to -- advice. he tried to do something about it. back to noti go trying to make your candidate something he is not. marco, it's nothing, is about stuff done.thing -- he is a bundle of energy and wants to publish things. he very much did on immigration form. he just felt this has to happen. a lot of people came to him and said we need you for the party. he took the ball and ran with it. it failed. he is the first to admit we did it in the wrong way. i don't want to put words in his mouth and i would not do that on

any issue, much less this one. but he now believes -- in politics, business and anything else, if something does not work and you continue to do it you are an idiot. in politics if something doesn't work everyone continues to do it -- ever expected to continue to do it or you are a sellout. he believes that the only way to get anything done -- no one believed that we were going to take care of the board. probably right to lisa -- rightfully so. let's prove the american people, here is what we're going to do. then let's go from there. rich: so complete list -- completely shamefully superficial question. the upper party -- do you ever worry he looks too young? terry: no. not any more than bill clinton's campaign or barack obama's campaign or john f. kennedy's campaign.

i realize i realize i'm talking about only democrats. rich: republicans never nominate the new exciting thing. we get our acids kicked when we do a retread -- we get cake -- kicked when we do a retread. when american voters are faced with the choice between the past -- the past and the future, they pick the future every time. we have to stop being charlie brown to the democrats lucy. we are out of time, but let me hit you with a couple really quick questions. was there ever a moment when you knew jeb that was getting in that you thought, no, marco is not going to get in. terry: never. never. chatter out the there, o judges by do cut off his fundraising, take his base in florida, his friends. terry: that was the point.

he was going to clear the entire field and no one would ever consider getting and he was going to be a juggernaut or it it is not quite worked out. wins the race. we were never intimidated. we were on intimidated by the prospect -- on intimidated by the prospect of a bush candidacy. had a rideyou ever on his luxury speedboat? terry: i have not. i tried to convince him that we needed to do it for a fund-raising gimmick and he was like absolutely not. that is my boat. he is not going to let anyone on his boat. rich: the question i'm asking everyone else, best moment for someone else and most enduring quality -- endearing quality. terry: i think ted cruz, who i think has run a really smart campaign for the candidate he is

they are not trying to make him somebody he is not. inviting donald trump to that press conference was great. rich: the iran event? yes.: no one would have covered it, but instead they carried him live on all the networks. he never would have gotten that coverage. that was pretty damn smart. it is just kind of intriguing to have a candidate who you can talk about music with. the first time i talked with bono, i met him, they started talking about music and then marco explained how he really u2 was kind of the christian rock band and i'm like

, please don't embarrass me. and bono is like you are right. he is somewhat of our generation and that is pretty cool. rich: thank you so much. [applause] rich: not unexpectedly, we have a little change in programming. rick wiley from the walker campaign will not be joining us. instead we are going to go straight to the manager of the bobby jindal campaign. [applause] so i have asked everyone, and i will ask you to react to this news about governor walker. it surprised me.

rich: why? >> you saw he did get an early rise in the polls. he came out really strong in january. you takeays hard once the step down to come back, but i still did not expect him to drop out this quickly. now if you have been lurking back there you might know, i have been asking lots of questions based on conventional wisdom. fair warning. the criticism you will often hear of governor jindal in his campaign is, here is a guy who is running the states health care system at 26. wonk, andlk -- wonk's is the smartest guy in any room. but he seems to be running kind of a bomb throwing campaign that is not necessarily to -- true to

hideous. what is your reaction? policies has laid out on repealing obamacare, replacing it. will beafter tonight he the only candidate in the race with a plan to replace obama care. , ands a pollution position education position, a position on national defense. you still have to break through the clutter. 20, 40 candidates in this race, you still have to break through the clutter. putting out 40 page policy papers does not allow you to break through the clutter. the press is not interesting -- interested in covering that. if you're going to break through the clutter you have to do it in a way that is going to be reported. if it is not reported it does not have the facts. rich: what have been some of those moments where you feel like he has broken through the clutter? say that he i would

came up here to lay out his case for why he thought trump would be the wrong nominee for america, the wrong candidate for conservativism. that we should not put our trust in somebody who is unproven, who does not share our conservative values. he washt that was -- able to cut through the clutter. abouttalk a little bit the strategic decision, if there was one, to go after trump that hard? timmy: i think the decision was this election is monumental. we are at a crossroads. at the candidacy of , and if we go ahead and

invest the presidency in a man like trump, who cares about himself, who does not care about freedom, about conservative we are about liberty going to make a big stake. he does not have a problem with government. his problem is that he is not in charge of it. he is not going to reduce the size of the government. he is not going to get rid of the burden of taxation and get the economy going. he is not going to get the federal government out of education, a low choice to spring up. the things we need to do as a ,ountry to bring back freedom he is not interested in. somebody needs to stand up and say this is not the right guy for the republican party. worry thathere any

that kind of attack on trump so far has not seemed to work. rick perry, rand paul. definitely a risk involved. he is able to use a megaphone when he responds. but it was important. at this moment in the campaign at the time, he was the issue. it was the wrong direction for the party to go, the wrong direction for the country to go. so plus out for us -- plot out for us what you guys see as jindal's breakout would be. when, where is it going to happen? timmy: our strategy is iowa. he is on a 99 county to her.

he is halfway through it. he has spent a lot of time in iowa. america'sthing about presidential elections is that it is not a national primary, it is an early state primary. iowa ands people in new hampshire a chance to get to know the candidates on a one-on-one basis, not just from what they see on tv or in the news. they will go to every event, every candidate. they will meet them, ask them questions. that is key to our strategy for success. get to know the voters one-on-one. i them to be able to get a sense of who he is and his experience and his vision. rich: i have sometimes told could if governor jindal just campaign in rooms of 12 would wina time, he

the presidency. it sounds a little bit like that is your strategy. timmy: well, you need a little more than 12. and louisiana is a state that is very retail heavy. they expect when you are running for governor that you are going to visit with them, they're going to get a chance to get to know you. he was an unlikely candidate for governor when he ran. , voters gots time to know him, and they elected him twice by historic margins. ,ich: are there any harbingers anything that you guys look at as early indications of gentle -- jindal catching on in iowa? timmy: in the polls you will see the favorables go up. traditionally your image questions are leading indicators. we are watching that. as he is traveling around you can see that we have gotten over .00 volunteers signed up

that is what we are looking at. volunteers. hopefully it doesn't read before the election. rich: what does he say or do out there that gets the most reaction? it seems to me, not having been out on the trail with him, but just hearing what others say, that it is immigration without is invasion. does that get people going? timmy: it has. religious liberty is an issue that has a lot of people worried. this idea that we are losing something as a country is, as a christian businessman, you can't operate a business according to your beliefs and according to your conscious -- conscience. we are going to force people to attend religious ceremonies against their conscience.

that is something that strikes the core. it has beeny, having a frank conversation about what is going on here in d.c. republicans have control of the house and senate but it seems like on big issues we continually surrender. when democrats are in charge going balls problem to the wall to get done what they want to get done. medicine,t socialized ted kennedy pushed it. hillary pushed it. that obama came through and rampant through. they just never gave up on it. surrender before we even get the chance to fight. look at the corker framework. they went ahead and unilaterally said ok. we will you do it.

aboutis a lot of anger republicans and their inability to fight and accomplish what we can -- what we campaign on. and: is the governor really truly more angry at mitch mcconnell than barack obama? you might think that mcconnell has not been too aggressive, is too much of a tactician, but he is basically a guy running the while obama is disgracing our country overseas. i think that the anger comes from the fact that president obama and the democrats are honest about what .hey want to accomplish they go very hard at a competition what they want to accomplish. we are told by republicans, this is what we are going to accomplish. told later, oh

sorry, we really can't do that. rich: so you think mitch mcconnell and john boehner are dishonest? they are opposing things that don't really want to stop them? timmy: i just wish we had the same level of fight on our side the democrats have on their side. spicer at the rnc has said there is not going to be an undercard debate next time. he seems to want to shove the candidates down in the pulled into interviews rather than to a debate stage. what do you think of that? how can you push back against the? the rnc has a lot of important roles, but i would not think an important role would be to limit the field, limit the number of candidates you have on the stage. know that a lot of smart

people got in a room after the 2012 elections and decided that the reason why republicans lost that election was we had too many debates. we allowed the front runner to get asked to many questions and be criticized too much. when as a party did become -- did we become afraid of ideas? that is a great thing to have in a democracy. you wanted to be a meritocracy. the idea that you would have folks in d.c. say well, no, we need to limit the number of debates and the number of people who are participating because we have decided that that is the best thing for you voters. i think it is silly. the rnc isu think trying to shut down debate and shutdown candidates? autopsy think that the

says what they wanted to do with have fewer debates. because they felt like mitt romney got beat up too much. i just don't think that is healthy. we should not be afraid of debates. let's have these debates. hear oficism you will governor jindal, especially from the left, is how is this guy running for president when he is so unpopular national -- one criticism you'll hear is why is he running for president when he is so unpopular nationally? timmy: i think right now he has about a 40% approval rating. -- he told the people of louisiana two things. he was going to shrink government and grow the economy. had a big, top-heavy government.

he came along and created a andrnment that was outsized we could not afford it was crushing our economy. came in, itjindal over the course of eight years he cut the budget by $11 billion. that is a lot of money. he fired 30,000 state employees. have 2 state where you million adults, everybody knows , aebody who got laid off state employee who was laid off. popular whato be you do is you give money away. you expand medicaid so that everyone gets health care. you give free stuff to people. that is how your popular as governor. he did not run to be popular. he ran because our state needs generational change.

he created a government run hospital system. now it is all privatized. people said, you can't privatize , it is just too ingrained into a culture of our state. you look at education, statewide school choice. he got rid of tenure for teachers. it's not a popular thing but he got rid of it. cut the largest income tax in louisiana history. people say oh you got these budget problems. budget problems. we cut revenue so we could cut government. he won by historic margins the first time. the only nonincumbent governor to ever win in the primaries. he went in there and accomplished what he needed to accomplish.

i can hear someone tweeting, a journalist cap eating, -- a journalist campaign jindal's manager says he is unpopular. walker, christia credit backed down. what is different in louisiana? we have had to continue to reduce the size of government. it is not always popular to cut the federal government. though, at that point we are in in america, there is too much government spending. i think our debt is too large and spending is too much. it does take somebody with backbone to go in and cut spending. i think that the spending is going to threaten our security, our economic security. when you have president obama

say that he did not have the leverage he needed with iran the is-a-vis china because we owed them money, the amount of debt we have is affecting our security and strength. cutting government is important. the final two questions. what is the best moment for another campaign or candidate when you thought that was really smart, and what is the most enduring quality about bobby jindal that the rest of us don't know? definitely the best moment was trumped half past -- was trumped -- trump's cap. the most enduring quality about governor jindal is he is a very kind man, and i think that does not always come across because he is god so much intellectual

horsepower. rich: can you give us an example? there are times where he will call me on my phone and one of my kids will answer and he will just talk to the kids. he just takes time with people. he makes people feel at home and welcome. you go to these iowa town hall meetings and he will not leave until everyone has had a chance to talk to him. he will sit and talk to everything a person. he is a kind person. rich: thanks so much. [applause] rich: and joining us next will ferry, thean fry -- lindsey graham campaign. how are you?

so, your reaction to the big scott walker news? kind of a surprise to see that news this early in the race, but it tells everyone that wherever you are today in the to everyone, who is winning, who is losing, it is all nonsense. it is nonsense to try to determine what is going to happen next year based on where you see things today. scott walker is a good governor, he is a good man. he has done a good job in wisconsin. he has been good for our party. he was at one point a front runner. today he is gone. things change quickly. rich: i don't mean this to be an insulting question, but i really have been curious. senator graham is so lively. he left the game. was thererst debate,

something wrong? with the six, with the under the weather deck of it was just knighted day -- it was night and day [noeen that and the second audio]

christian: -- rich: how do you think he did in the second debate? christian: i would say he was by far the winter. i would say he was the only one of anyone on either stage who is ready to be commander in chief on day one. he laid out a plan. rich: so i have been asking all the campaign managers negative questions. i am a journalist. christian: we love hanging out with you. rich: so the knock on senator graham is that this is a one issue candidate, and he -- maybe even more than a one issue

candidate. kind of a one policy candidate. what he comes back to again and again -- in the debate you can almost ask him anything and he would say 10,000 troops in syria. christian: it is called message discipline. let me turn the question back to you. what is more important than getting this right? these people are trying to destroy our entire way of life. they are wreaking havoc around the world. matter what our social security policy is if our country is unsafe. if we do not get this war against radical islam right, nothing else really matters. threat, ouris under families are under threat. that is going to continue to be the major focus of his campaign. i know you are not a military expert. so where does that number come from except for being a nice ?ound, memorable number

my limited understanding of military affairs is if you have 10,000 guys in the country, when you take logistics and you take force protection and you take search-and-rescue, you probably have about 50 guys who are actually going to be fighting? christian: i am not running for president of the united states and senator graham has in working on this for decades. he has been on the ground 35 times between his trips as a senator and his deployment as a reservist. he talks to military commanders. he talks to foreign policy, national security experts. these are numbers that i think he has become comfortable with based on those conversations. i could not tell you, based on my own experience, because that is not where i come from. i am a political consultant. you do not want my military advice. rich: so when does he get his bump and do you expect any bump

from the undercard debate? christian: i do expect a little bit of a bump. this campaign is a long, grinding process. if the facts were determined today we would not allow -- bother to run a campaign. my job is to have gradual, incremental process in january before people vote. i am not trying to win the race in september year before. i'm trying to win a next year when people go to the polls. we will have a slow, gradual climb. matchup, how does he in your mind, and i would? -- in iowa? the conventional wisdom would be iowa tends to reward these very socially conservative candidates, and senator graham has a reputation as a more center-right guide? that is it -- christian: that is a fair point.

we have to see how this race will shape out. if you weeks ago we were talking about scott walker being the front runner in iowa. i don't know how many people are going to be in the race come next year. i don't know how the ideological puzzle breaks down in terms of who is dividing up what segment. but senator graham, if you look at where he has been spending his time, his focus has been new hampshire. have -- said there iscer not going to be an undercard next time and that policy seems designed to relegate candidates like yours to some kind of interview format. christian: i think it is really interesting to hear them say that, because they have nothing to do with the debate criteria. i would ask sean spicer, how do you know what cnbc is going to do if you have no role in that?

rnc, as any republican could want, we have a lot of great candidates running for president. let's find a way to feature as many of them as we can. it is good for our party. we should be embracing this is a good thing about conservatism, a good thing about our message, rather than having the party play the role that the voters as opposed to play. the voters get to whittle down the race, not the rnc. rich: wld you be open to participating in some alternate debate? christian: i think you had one of the best ideas. i suggested it to. take all the people who are still in the race, divide them in half by random drawing, have two forms. that way you can really see all these candidates show off their talents. i would hope that the rnc, cnbc, i don't know how many candidates are going to be left so this may

be a moot point. rich: how would you characterize the center's -- senator's about this? it seems like the party is only fighting for the right. christian: the key thing is immigration is a problem. we are not doing anything about it. we have got to find a way to fix the problem. by doing nothing we are continuing to grant amnesty. that is the one thing i think all republicans agree on, we have to do subbing to solve this problem. people have different ideas about how to do it, but i think senator graham, as he thinks about most issues, looks at it in a pragmatic way. what is actually doable? i will be honest, whether it helps me politically or not, i

will be honest with the american people and give them the straight story. would you characterize his personal view of donald trump as uphold -- appalled? christian: i don't think he liked it when donald trump gave out his cell phone number. that would interesting. we couldn't figure out, why is your phone ringing? we thought it was a poker for the sunday show. something has to be great. i hope they are donors. it was not. it was very angry donald trump supporters. that his personal views about donald trump are probably that he is not ready to be commander-in-chief of the greatest fighting force in the world. we should be focusing on candidates who are. rich: so where you secretly relieved that donald trump forced the issue and forced the center to get a more modern phone? christian: it is a mixed bag. now he knows how to use apps and read polls and read your new articles.

he is getting a lot of information on his own. but yes, i think it is great that he has joined all of us in using a smartphone. as i said to him when it all happened, i had only been his campaign manager for four of five months. donald trump just did something i have been trying to do for five months. i'm a total failure. so as i read it, by the senators criteria, no one else besides him is fit to be commander in chief. christian: i think we are waiting to see how this race shapes up and how people feel about that particular issue. from his point of view, there is no debating it anymore. what we need to do in syria, what we need to do in iraq, and the mistakes he made before. that this isels

the right path forward. he is going to make his case and he thinks he is best prepared, otherwise he would not be running. rich: so as you plot out your path to a breakout, does it require a number of these other candidates, including jeb bush, to fizzle out? christian: i'm not sure he needs anyone to fizzle out. any in politics you need to have a little bit of luck. to sit here as a political consultant and tell you it is all the genius in our heads, that is bs. you need to put your campaign in a position to take advantage of that lock. i think probably six months ago i would've said lindsey graham's campaign manager is not going to be on the stage when they have therefore great but we're still here. we are running a small, disciplined, mobile, flexible campaign that we can afford. in order to remain in the race and take advantage of the opportunities you have to still be sitting there.

that is the campaign we had planned from day one and the campaign we will continue to execute. can you quantify for us, give us some indication of how small, one corners you are cutting, and what it means to be lean and mean and the lindsey graham world's? christian: we have an extremely small national team. one dozen people. we sit in one giant room, about the size, and yell at each other all day long. it is a fun place to work. i think that actually reflects a lot of our candidate's personality. a campaign should reflect to the candidate is. we are like that. there formall team the right reasons, because we believe in lindsey graham. if we were doing this for the money, if we were doing it because we are frontrunners, we would all be in it for the wrong reasons. we are not. rich: i have asked some of the

other candidates who are former senators, do you worry that the mood is so much in favor of outsiders and people that have no political experience that the single worst case you can make as a candidate is, i have been in the senate for a long time. i know things. give me this job. christian: it is a tough case to make right now. but at the end of the day when you get closer to election time people start thinking about different things. they are going to think about who is ready to take this fight to radical islam. they're going to think about who is ready to be commander-in-chief. military families are going to be saying, who do i want commanding my son or daughter when they go off to do their job? who do i trust to make sure that our troops have the capacity, the weapons, the support they need to do their job. i think when we get down to it and we get down to crunch time,

the importance of who our commander in chief is going to be more relevant and that is when lindsey graham will truly shine. rich: can you talk a little bit about the history of lindsey in south a vote getter carolina? i understand he is the best in south carolina history, eclipsing even strom thurmond. christian: he has never lost a race. he won his last race against its opponents with the overwhelming majority. he has not necessarily been seen as the front runner in those races, but he is a great, grassroots politician. what you see is what you get. he can interact with people better than anyone i have ever worked with. i think that sort of talents that helps them so much in south carolina is perfectly tailored to iowa and new hampshire as well. rich: would you expect him to begin to pick up endorsements from his fellow senators? christian: i don't know if endorsements are really the name

of the game. i think the key is how you're doing and iowa, new hampshire, and south carolina. that will be more of our focus. rich: do you have a secret , the large number of people there in the national guard? i think that certainly helps out. senator graham is the only candidate in the race aside from jim gilmore who has served. he was in the national guard, he has been a reservist. i think there is a large population of national guard and reservists and iowa. that is going to be good for him. there is a strong veterans population in new hampshire and south carolina. rich: does he have a particular strategy or tactics are reaching out to those people? christian: i think talking about his national security credentials is important, also talking about how we make sure that our veterans are cared for is something that is important to that community. serving in the senate on those issues and working on them for a long time, he has a good breadth of experience. rich: last two questions i have

asked everyone. what is the moment and other candidate has had that you have been most impressed with and wish you had thought of first? and what is the most endearing quality of lindsey graham that you see on the inside working with him closely that the rest of us might not be aware of? christian: i think one of the things i find most fascinating about this campaign, and hopefully it is a good thing, is donald trump has truly turned political consulting conventional wisdom on its head. he has done everything that people like me would tell he candidate not to do. maybe that is a good thing for my profession. maybe we have too many political consultants who are operating from a safe place. rich: you think that is a good thing for your profession? christian: i think it is. i think it is good to have people challenging the way things have always been done. i'm not saying dollar cap is doing it the right way, but it is good for folks like me to try

to think differently. i hope the whole consulting class is looking at the trump raise and going, how else can we look at what we do? graham, if lindsey think the one word i would use to describe him is sincere. what you see with lindsey graham is exactly what you get. he is as approachable as anyone i have ever worked with and politics. he is as sincere and carrying a person as i have ever been around. he is also just funny. he is a really funny person. it is not so much that he has the same kind of joke that you hear over and over and over again. i worked with john mccain, i can tell you john mccain sticks to jokes. thing lindsey graham has ever said, i am not sure i could come up with it, because every day it is something new. that creates an environment that is fun to work in and i'm great -- very grateful for that. rich: the use of much. -- thank you so much.

[applause] bennett next is barry with the ben carson campaign. doing? you so we have this breaking news, maybe in about 10 minutes, that scott walker is out of the race. what do you make of that, how do you analyze it, what does it mean? i am surprised. i knew things were going well. i think -- i knew things were not going well. i think the lesson from valenti pawlenti wasay -- don't give up, but apparently he is getting out. explain ben carson. what you will hear over and over again from the pundit class, is i just don't get him.

i don't get his appeal, i don't there. he is on fire out he is so soft-spoken, he is not in this immediate political environment that rewards people for saying outrageous things and never apologizing. he took the slightest possible implicit slight at donald trump and then apologized for it, completely the opposite of what donald would do. what is the appeal? barry: it is his character. certainly the- smartest guys i have ever met, but also one of the nicest people i have ever met. to start off, he is a physician with a pediatric specialty. that is quite endearing. then you have living legend, he is smart. rich: so it is like he is a made-for-tv movie. barry: that helps.

he is caring, he is smart. he has a likability that is amazing. a tvq, people just love him. and he has this life story that is astonishingly inspiring. a guide who literally saw his cousins who he lived with in boston die on the street. never thought he would live to he wasdult, let alone -- inspired to start reading. , hepplied it to one school only had enough money for one application. he never visited yell until he showed up on the first day. he applied to yale and not harvard because they beat them in quiz bowl that year. rich: how did you get to know him and become part of the operation? barry: a friend of mine called

me and said hey, would you be interested in doing a presidential race? i said no. i am way past that. rich: tell us about your career before that. barry: i have a political consulting shop which was going very well. i wanted to do this when i was younger and did not have kids. so i went down to florida and i spent the day with him and his wife. when i got in the car to go back to the airport i said i am in, let's do it. he is just overwhelmingly nice and likable. and you have no doubt that as someone who has all these amazing accomplishments that you mentioned, i think no one would dispute that never having run for office before, never having any real significant executive experience, he will win this

nomination and be elected president of the isis? -- president of the united states? barry: and i tell you 100% he is , no. to win but he has a lot to help the repugnant party. that is why i really became interested. he can make the party bigger, bolder, and better. i think he probably will be our nominee, but even if he isn't, i think it is a mission that is good for everyone. rich: what are those lessons that he is teaching the republic and party? month we far this campaigned in harlem, ferguson, chicago.inner-city we are going to places where we did not see the romney ryan team make a stop. also more.

talked about lifting yourself up and ending the cycle of dependency in a way that none of the other candidates can do. i think he can be very helpful. it is not just the african-american vote that we are going after. we are going after those suburban soccer moms that got barack obama elected. he speaks in a compassionate way that is very inspiring. people want their kids to have the same opportunities that he had. when so stupid question, he goes those kinds of places is he talking to african american audiences? if you resonated with them? barry: yes. we were in ferguson and we had african-american business owners se businesses were attacked by protesters. he said something most politicians never say, i am here to listen.

tell me your story. it was great. it thatw important is he is soft-spoken? if there is any quality you would naturally associate with political success, that would be very far down the list. barry: i agree. but in a field of 15, maybe 14 sounding,, looking, talking and behaving differently is very important. it distinction is you from the rest of them. at the debate i was like oh, i wish he was yelling. that is not him. but guess what? i will take two hours of national tv time with him standing next to donald trump any day. rich: so a lot of people missed his standout performance in the first debate. or did not get it.

in you know, especially those last couple of questions, what about race -- one about race, and the closing segment, did you think he is killing a? were watching it in my office. media thatugh social it was really resonating with people, the shares were going through the roof. fanst 300,000 new facebook . rich: 300,000 in two hours? barry: yes. rich: how many fans did he have? barry: at that point he had about 1.6 and then we were up to 2 million. since the debate we have gained almost 900,000, 3.7, 3.8 million. rich: do you know how that compares to other candidates? barry: it is three times more

than hillary. 15 times more than just. ,e will be above donald trump after three years on "the apprentice," will be above that. rich: how do you take advantage of that? barry: i think one way is 14 candidates on the republican side, how many on the democrat side? , plusll the super pac's all the outside money. if you are counting on winning the election through television advertising in des moines in january you are probably not going to do that. lot of these networks around to talk to the voters through social media. , search hisle position, all these tools. content is king. if you can talk to them effectively in the way that they want to be talked to through social media you can do it in

the push of a button. he blew the candles on his birthday cake on friday, and he said what his wish was, and i wish i could tell you what it is, but i do know the 19 million , and 5.5t the post million of them watch the entire thing or it on television that would cost a lot of money. so like your you saying that if you happen to be a candidate who is really good in corporate boardrooms and has raised $125 million, that that is an asset that may not be as powerful as it was in the past? we knew already that advertising rates are 10 times more. 100 million instantly turns into 10 million. we have already raised $30 million. we are going to do fine.

television is not going to be the breakthrough medium with 14 candidates in the race. are you raising that money through phones, e-mail, direct mail? barry: yes. rich: the state fair? barry: $50 is the averaged a nation. we have had 530,000 donations. and these are donors who can come back because they are not going to tap out. barry: i love sending e-mails and watching the dashboard. rich: talk about the work on the campaign. several weeks ago there was the story about disarray, meltdown, choose your word. barry: this all happened because of the campaign chairman who is ,ne of the people that hired me

who announced as the announcement was leaving to go do other things, he left. three weeks later somehow it was a news story. we have all early states well staffed. we have regional finance people. we have the healer hauler. we are doing great. rich: so talk a little bit about iowa specifically. do you have to win their? there?ou have to win one thing i was surprised to learn, ben carson has a real organization there. an organizer, a chairman in all 99 counties.

how important is the state? barry: we think the state is very important. we are very well organized. there are three tickets out of iowa. we are going to get one. in the world that we live in there are 13,000 people in the month of august 2 attended one of our event. the surprising thing was, many of them were not public and they were independent or democrats. i think the caucus will be expanding this year. or at least that is what we're going to try to do. typically maybe 25,000 votes would win the caucus. we targeted 70,000 people. rich: barry: so when those how areome to an event, you establishing a connection with them that you will maintain over time? are you getting phone numbers, e-mails? barry: we get that, we start

talking to them. the computer starts talking to them. we warm them up. we find out what motivates them. release -- -- to lease a campaign bus, we leave -- we least maya angelou's bus. it cost one hundred $30,000 to lease the bus for 10 months. i said, what if we let people put their kids names on the bus. dr. carson could see the reasoning. 8000 people, $50 a name. we pay for the bus in about three hours. and then we took all those names and created pictures of children on the bus. south carolina filing fee. i am like why should i pay for

that out of the general treasury account? let's ask the people of south carolina to kick in $40. rich: so i would be summarily rejected if we did not talk about muslims today. barry: why today? rich: does dr. carson really believe that it is not theoretically possible to have any muslim who is capable of believing enough in the american dream to be president of the united >> what he said was, they asked him if he -- if islam in the constitution could be put together. said if a muslim ran for president, he cannot advocate for them until he knew whether or not they support of the set of islam or not. do they support religious freedom? other things that are not in the central tenets of islam as we know it.