specifically to address the testing, emissions, of and they failed, that speaks to a whole other level of perhaps collusion with respect to this whole software debacle. have you looked at or done any internal investigation with respect to these facilities? mr. horn: that's part of the internal investigation. my understanding is they are just testing on the basis of the legal test requirements. >> so the engineers would not have known software code? mr. horn: i think they have tested the dino situation for the cars and didn't do independent protests. >> ok. idea ofump to the whole the environmental impact.

how seriously does volkswagen take its commitment to the environmental responsibility? mr. horn: this is deeply -- maybe it is difficult to understand in this context, but it is deeply embedded in our corporate culture. we have three values. responsible toward our employees and the environment. our plant in tennessee is platinum leed certification. this is the most clean and energy efficient plant in the world. all our plans have commitment to reduce carbon footprint. whether these plants are india, china, they are always up to the highest volkswagen standards which go beyond -- so this is part of the corporate culture. i'm assuming that is throughout, including your engineers and scientists. this is part of the fo's -- the

ethos. how do you explain this massive deviation? the majority of all volkswagen employees ask the same question. it is a relevant question and i hope that these investigations would definitely find out what drove those people. what drove those people into these decisions. >> i hope it won't be profit. >> thank you, mr. chair. mr. on, these vehicles promised unrivaled fuel economy. i know other members have asked about how volkswagen intends to make consumers whole and i want to lend my voice to that briefly. because consumers purchased a car believing it would be a clean choice, they have every

right to feel defrauded. consumers were sold goods that do not exist. i think it is likely that whatever fixes to comply with

there was an issue here in 1947. yes. that's what i understand. >> so what smeshrs were taken? >> that's a great question and it can get you the answer now. >> was something done?

>> i hope you can provide that to the committee. i'm certain the record will be open. confirm some of the information we've received. volkswagen initiated a voluntary in december of 2014 that was intended in part to address of excess of noncommission was that correct? >> could you repeat the question? >> volkswagen initiated a voluntary recall in december of 2014? that's correct. propose theswagen recall. >> the technical engineering department in concert with the worldwide.

given toxplanation was consumer about why that to wasmber 2014 recall necessary? >> i would have to look into the -- what we wrote to those consumers. i don't know. >> you will provide that to the please?e >> definitely. it's public. >> what explanation was given to regulator about why that wasmber 2014 recall wasmber 2014 recall do the volkswagen implement for cars under that recall? software fixes. new software versions have been the specific steering. at volkswagen developed that fix? draft engine and

development software after treatment department in germany. >> did they know at the time work?t would not >> i don't know that. my understanding was that it otherwise tod work. but product safety would have ins version for application the market. >> well, i thank you for your responses. i look forward to the additional information you owe. again, i would say on behalf of the 20thmer of congressional district of new impactedund the world, by this. deserve a sound explanation and fix that will respond to the andronmental damage consumer fraud. >> thank you. >> as one final question real quick. >> first mr. chairman, i ask to putus consent mr. welch's document into the record.

last question mr. horn. you told a bunch of us on this committee, after that west virginia university study in may of 2014, everybody was running figure out what was going on with these cars and a discrepancy between the cast that your engineers didn't know the answer. in fact, the discrepancy was because of a willful act of some engineers germany in the first place. correct? >> that's my understanding. >> those people -- that information about that never made it to germany so they can tell your people what was wrong? that what you're deafing here t-- testifying here today? >> i don't understand. >> you said your people were trying to figure out why there discrepancy. there were some people who knew. those are the people who wrote place.de in the first are you telling me that they never told your u.s. people what

why therem was and was a discrepancy? >> people who investigated the detail, the study and wereoped software fixes also the colleagues in germany. informingthey were their u.s. colleagues. >> did they tell the u.s. that there was deceptive code and that was the discrepancy? >> i don't think so. >> thank you. that concludes our questioning for now. this hearing is not over. appreciate more questions will be coming from committee members. a quick andreciate honest response. going to adjourn for a couple of hours while the meeting.n conference reconvene in about 15

minutes. >> thank you. onwe reconvene this hearing volkswagen cheating allegations and initial questions. we have mr. brooks here as the witness esses. let me go into this. you're aware that the committee is holding an investigative hearing. has the practice of taking testimony under oath. do you have any objectionst to oath.ying under the chair advise you, you're entitled to be advised by counsel during your testimony

today. both witnesses indicate no. please rise and raise your right hand and i will swear you in. do you swear that the testimony you about to give is the truth, whole truth and nothing but the truth. thank you. both witnesses have been now underthat you are oath. we'll now allow you to each give a five minute summary of your opening statement. thether members of subcommittee. we appreciate the opportunity to testify on the matter of the environmental protection agency. grundler. i'm joined today by my colleague

the brooks director of office of civil enforcement division. enforcement program and develop and prosecutor civil administrative and judicial cases. epa sent a no,it's of violation notice of violation of clean act of volkswagen. audiing that volkswagen, diesel cars for model years 2009 that15 include software circumvent epa's emission standards. volkswagen manufactured and software in the electronic control module of these vehicles. is being tested for compliance. put simply, these cars contain turns off or reduces they run -- effectiveness of emission normally.hen driving this is known as a defeat

device. the design feature is in cars emitting up to 40 times the to ensurehat allows that public health is protected. contains a switch. including the position of the wheel, the vehicle speed, the duration of the and pressure.tion all new cars sold in the united states must have an epa issued certificate of conformity demonstrating that the car meets standards.ssion by making and selling vehicles for advices that allows higher level of emissions, vw violating multiple important clean air act. these violations are very serious. not only because the device resultses in excess emissions, after the highe emissions were discovered, vw

concealed the facts from epa, the state of california and from consumers. are emitting more oxide. been linkedsure has with a range of serious health effects. an ongoingin the midst of vw's action. however, at this point, we're unable to provide further details investigation because of the release of such information enforcementdize as investigation. epa will continue to work closely with the california air resources board during the .nvestigation our agencies work very closely together on the implementation

and the oversight of the vehicle emissions program. we intend to assess the scope of under the clean air act. we also intend to assess the economic benefit to vw with noncompliant and pursue penalties as well as assess the excess pollution from vw's violation. there acutely aware of impact of these violations on consumers. we have provided frequentedly questions and answers to our website. on september 25th, my office sent a letter to all auto them knowes letting that we are stepping up our activities. history of plus year our program, we have updated and adapted our approach to compliance, oversight and

changed.y have that this oversight ensures the benefit of clean air emissions standards are realized. thank you for the opportunity to witnesses this morning. we welcome your questions. >> mr. brooks, you don't have a statement. you issued a joint statement? okay, thank you. now i'm going to recognize myself for five minutes. make sure you, on. the mic in december of 2014, vw recall toa voluntary duress -- what information did you about the cause and the proposed solution to advance ofsion in that recall the 2014, once

learned ofand epa emissions, there were technical conversations between the air resources board and volkswagen. lead onia took the exploring what the problem was vehicles. my understanding they received stories different plausible reasons why these vehicles may not be performing to.hey supposed chemical based reasons, physical based reasons. what the remedy that was proposed was described to fix a problem with the vehicle concerning how it's operated under different temperatures. sensors weredosing used to make the emission properly.stem work at the time they were told by state of california to proceed. but that california was going to make sure vehicles to that the fix was effective.

theas not effect based on testing by california and resources board. furtherou conduct any evaluations and conclusions and proposed solutions to advance the recall. what process did you have in them.cting with >> epa and california have a when itong partnership comes to oversight and compliance. sometimes california takes the matters.hese sometimes epa takes the lead ones matters. year, we hadlast to lead with respect to the anddai-kia investigation subsequent action. california volunteered to stake the lead on this matter. during 2014, what is happening now as we speak. to determineng what is the right recall solution to address these excess

emissions. vw's responsibility to identify aat was wrong and propose fix. that fix did not work. most of the interactions were theeen california and company. epa participated in some of them. actively much more involved in 2015 when california produced their test resultses on the proposed fix of these vehicles. that data showed there still remained very high and emissions. excess >> who did you have these going backns with vw communicating while they're toking and they're talking you about these results? part of those conversations. it was my team and the

california counterparts. my understanding is those conversations included both officials from vw of america as well as from officials from germany. >> do you know their names for the record? >> i do not. >> are those things you can get for us >> yes. be important. >> now technical question. here is this switch that when in position for an emissions test, made a change in how this emissionson also the will be lower. the other position, the high.ons were quite is it possible to just keep that switch in the position of low be inons and they could compliance. does that damage the engine or significantly? do you have any idea? >> those are exactly the same questions we are asking volkswagen right now. it's not actually a switch, sir. what we call a dual calibration strategy. to vehicle is programmed work two different ways. when the vehicle senses when a test, it very quickly

goes into clean mode. it does not sense the very specific parameters that are specified in federal test it goes into a high pollution mode. you're -- you take and vehicle off operate normally. we don't know yet. we're asking those questions. answer will depend on which of diesel engines we're talking about. we believe that the newer generation, the generation so called generation three engines fix thanuch easier to the older versions. >> thank you. >> thanks just to continue. i want the newer version, they have these tanks. system that you can both the filters and the

tanks. vw dealers and the dealer in denver and also their feelnics told me, they like it would be a pretty easy adjustment even just in the to fix it in the 2015 and model. is that your understanding mr. grudnler. >> i don't want to speculate that. that seems logical to us. vehicleto test the before further action can be taken >> it's the agency's position that these vehicles do need to be fixed, right? >> absolutely. >> they're noncompliant bother federal law and california state law. bye of the impressions given volkswagen is well, they're safe to drive. to drive, be safe they don't comply with the

emission standards. the car between 2009 and 2014, the fix is a bigger don't haveause they the containers. harder to see without major structural changes how they can into compliance. is that your understanding? >> correct. they will require a more engineering.njurin requirewill installation of a system or different knocks, filters or both. that's going to be quite elaborate. i'm not a mechanic and i don't pretend to be one. i went over and looked at it, it looked like a very naughty problem to me. >> what california and epa have

directed volkswagen to do is to onsent more than one option how to address these excess emissions. at these options carefully. >> right. has vw -- have you given vw any of deadline for coming up with that fix? you when indicated to they might be able to come up with? this is something that concern the panel in the earlier conversation today. assure you we have a very strong sense of urgency. we are pressing the volkswagen thoseat plan and for solutions. we're meeting with them on a daily basis. we hope to get a proposal very soon. want to make sure it's effective. rushing.ome risk in we expect to see something as early as next week. the company told you that

they believe they can fix the affected vehicles without affecting fuel economy engine performance or both? >> they have not said so. >> okay. one lastnt to say thing. which is often times we have the epa inherent sometimes it's not the most pleasurable experience testifying. this case, the director counsel onrnational clean transportation, which was the organization that commissioned the west virginia study, said quote, this is a powerful affirmation of u.s., federal and vehicle emission regulations and other agencies. clear protocols and requirements life vehicles. the authority to find enforced recalls. best practices that regulations worldwide incorporate. end quote.

thank you an your agencies for your efforts here. ask you, are you going forward?ng >> yes. we already have. done?t have you >> we've learned from this episode, for sure. wish we had found it sooner. thison as we learned of data, -- how are you adjusting the testing going forward. >> bottom line, we are going to be unpredictable. robust required for a compliance and oversight program vehiclesesting of new in the lab. testing what we call end use lab, on roadhe measurement. >> thanks. i don't have much time mr. brooks. mentyou adjusting enforce efforts going so and if so, how?

>> the answer is yes, although, i think the prosecution and the investigation of this matter normaloceed along our path. i think what we will see is -- more be getting a lot phone calls from people. in that way it will change. to.l have more to respond >> thank you. mr. chairman much mr. chairman. >> you're next. >> thank you very much mr. chairman appreciate you all being here. questions being asked. there were a number of us, i'm the people who owns one of the diesel volkswagen. i have some questions in that regard. it's important that you change your testing methods. it might be helpful in doing your job if we pass legislation that would allow a portion of the fine

fraud case to go to the university that discovered it? wvu discovered the problem. you all didn't. the epa can and should do everything. this might be some assistance just like we do with certain actors in other criminal committing who are fraud, we take some of their ill-gained goods. we take it away from them and the government gives it back to some of the folks who helped it.over you think that might be a helpful piece of legislation for at.o take a look either one of you. >> i don't think i can comment on what legislative changes might be necessary. the understand that in criminal context, these kinds of remedies have been imposed before. if you --tion is,

>> can you speak closer. >> if you currently have that that. let me know if you don't have that power, whenever you come up with the fine that's appropriate for volkswagen, it would seem to me, i don't know that you have that authority now, to give wvu, west virginia university that uncovered this problem, part of help them continue their research. that's what we do with prosecutors. we do that with law enforcement agencies who uncover crime. cases.hat in security there are different ways that it's done. do you think that will be a for peopleo be level of the united states of america? >> i can take that back and we can respond in writing. >> sounds like a good idea to me. is interesting that wvu found not.d you all did i understand that you can't do everything. let's go to the other side of

this. i will -- whatever you all come up with and whatever volkswagen with,ly get my car fixed or if they do a buy back have to debate whether it's better to fix it or it back to the company. point,t curious, at some am i going to be subject or arer consumers in my shoes they going to be subject to the epa forom driving a vehicle that doesn't that supposedards to be in place when they bought the vehicle? >> that question depends on than the particular other of volkswagen one of these vehicles lives. if you live in an area that does emissions test that the state conducts these states requireme

that in order to reregister the arecle, if it's subject to and call to show that the fix has been made. states do snot -- not have that requirement. living on where you're >> for some people who may not be paying attention to whatever might get or for whatever reason aren't following the news. bunch of those folks out there who don't follow day-to-day news. with some kindup of penalty from their state. would you anticipate that the the direction of the national program if enough of the cars did not get bought a certainxed after number of months? >> we certainly will be consumers to -- understand. not anticipate that.

but it is a possibility. >> i don't think that's a possibility. tell you one of my concerns is. it doesn't have anything to do with you all. a rhetorical question. had epa official in and we were talking about the and the cap and trade scheme which they didn't call cap and trade, they kept resisting that. talks about putting limit on emissions and making trades. cap and trade. what was interesting about it, quotes from lisa jackson in 2011, gina mccarthy and gina mccarthy 2013 2014. they would never consider it. it wouldn't allowed the law to a cap and trade scheme. i'm concerned, not for me, i do what i need to do to make my car right. folks out be a lot of there who maybe caught.

i want to make sure that the epa isn't doubling down on their damages. i appreciate you listening to that. answer, aisle give you a chance to answer. i'm assuree you that of a cleaner act which would allow prosecution for the things about talking >> that's exactly what lisa jackson told us two or three years ago. we'll move on. last but not least happenll say it won't gen1 cars. will take up some of the space in trunk area of the vehicle. >> that would depend on the remedy would be. as i said earlier, we're going break here to look at what impact this is going to consumersners and

that will be central to how we review the options that comes forward to. we don't know that yet. much.ppreciate it very thank you for being here. back.d >> thank you. mr. grundler. concerns i raised with mr. horn earlier was mightn about whether we devices with similar problems with other cars. the tools you need to ensure there are no other cheaters out there? we do. >> i'm also concerned about, mr. brooks,s from comments mr. ford made. suggesting there was no corporate responsibility. ag who goesa or the

after the individual corporate or otherwise who might be responsible for this. point envision bringing charges like criminal the corporation itself for this intentional deceit? question.ou for the toan't speculate now as exactly what all the enforcement actions will take. already taken the initial enforcement action. we are working with the department of justice on these matters. >> i guess what i'm asking, i won't keep repeating, one more time. we keep talking about the fines because of what happened. is this rise to individual responsibility for those responsible? asthere such a thing criminal action against a corporation? speculating, are

those possibilities? >> let me be careful in answering that. the concern that has been expressed here by exactly our concern -- who, what, when, where, how and how. i'm concern that the getstigations on going will into exactly that. i don't think it will be unfair for me to say much more about what the end result might be. a possibility? >> certainly there are possibilities. >> okay. i was glad in mr. ford actually said that he understood the impact of these emissions and they could have health and safety impacts. he did say that. beyond in that? he's admitting this took place and there could be some health and safety impacts because of the increased emissions. does the epa hold volkswagen

environmen for the environmental effects. consider -- is it possible that they will be held impact one for the essentially dirty air? not just fix the cars but there damages or some kind of payment that would have to be made. the air was made dirty and people health and safety were impacted? yes.e answer to that is while it may go by different names, we tend to talk about it mitigation. the concept there is exactly what you articulated. opportunities, the ways in which the damage the has been done to environment and which has health, can beic addressed. can't go back in

time. many of our settlements look the question.k how is it we can make air the lawbetter than what minimally requires. additional reduction in pollution is what we refer to as mitigation. we have consent decrees that go about doing that in many ways.ent >> for example, you could impose penalties that might be used to mitigate air pollution in other ways. not by vw but that the epa would to mitigate air pollution in some other way? me an example >> lot of the power plant case, projects for example where the company has had to go a third party to implement a wood stove change out program.

so that cleaner burning stoves more efficient wood stoves are dirtier stoves. that has a direct impact on air becauseand communities there are lots of communities very heavilyt rely on wood burning devices >> thank you very much. mr. chairman. >> recognize dr. burgess for five minutes. >> thank you mr. chairman. i apologize for being out the the hearing. of i'm going to ask a couple of questions. been asked before, please bare with me and try to as consistent. first off, what is the budget the epa currently? the budget for the entire epa. i can give you the budget for my organization. that.ll take a it's roughly $100 million

year and 340 full time people in my organization >> budget for the epa, i'm think it isemory, i close to $15 billion. resources available. it has funding available. >> i do want to correct that. think epa's budget is around $7 billion and about 15,000 roughly. >> nevertheless, west virginia thisrsity had a budget for 50, 60h project around or $70,000. >> i'm not going to blame our the fact that we missed this cheating. i do think we do a very good job of setting priorities at epa. once we've learned of this emissions, we focused on it. it.idn't ignore

we've also immediately changed how we're doing our testing unpredictable.re >> well, with all due respect. at the situation. i think the american people yout to ask that we fire virginiawestern university to do our work. costre much more effective. let me ask you this. i sat on another subcommittee. theave jurisdiction over national highway transportation administration. this is not a safety issue as are driven. there are emissions issues. is that correct correct. >> does epa do its own kind of recall that is separate and apart? >> we do. recalls.govis be www.

that is the website that consumers can go to find out recall orn about the the possible recall on their vehicle? >> we have not ordered a recall yet. when we do, we'll provide that information for sure. >> that information will be on website? >> yes. >> i went to the website, they for me.it off you can get information about pesticides, pesticide websites, epa emission recalls where i this would fall. is that correct? link, youlick on that get a page not found. under way.rovements can you let consumers know when they are likely to be able to get that information off your website? ordered awe've not recall. so there's no recall information. we have information on our that talks about our notice in violation and what consumers need to know today.

which is they can drive these cars. cars are safe to drive. they will not be held any repairs.or >> let me ask you this. mr. pallone was asking you things about payment to damages and because of the issue that air was dirtier and health impacted. have been volkswagen of america is going finese some significant and penalties by the environmental protection agency. are they not that's very likely. theave you heard that to ceo of volkswagen, don't be dismissive. from the fact that happened.

i will a lot of people ask me a private company done that and turned the river held --they will be there will be fines and mitigation costs. the samehold itself to standard to which it holds private corporations? not, why not >> ask you me to testify about the gold king mine situation? in general. epa causes a problem, or should the sameeld to standard. i'm not asking you to testify. i think we should have a hearing a separate issue. answer the question. held to the same standards to which you will hold a private corporation? i'm not can say, familiar with the details, i have seen and read that the has taken full

responsibility for that situation. acting accordingly. gentlemen from virginia and texas both touting my neighboring state, western university. it's nice to see them get that accolades for doing such good work. >> gentlemen on september 18th, epa issued a violation against volkswagen. to 2015.rs from 2009 according to epa, the software by volkswagen is a defeat advice. i understand that vw admitted in to installing defeat devices on their vehicle. is that correct? mid olate describe in

-- we were officiallyion w notified on september 3rd. what did vw tell epa that they have done to the emissions? >> we were informed that the has a dual calibration strategy. the vehicle to operate one way. when it was tested by the epa waycompletely different when the vehicle was on the road with anw provided epa that shows how the device worked? >> that is my understanding. check that for you. >> i understand the affected vehicle falls in generation year.on the model and at this point, does epa have a how theerstanding of

fee devices work do n not. else do you need and has vw been helpful? need to provide to the epa to give you information that you need? >> the information we're focused on now like laser is what are to addressto do these excess emissions and take the software off these vehicles comply. we don't need to know they cheatedhow with each line of code. the most important thing going forward is that those defeat devices are removed. are addressed in a way that will work with consumers. someu said you've learned lessons here. expertiseave the right now or do you hire

consultants? >> we do. we don't need unpack lines ever code to find these defeat advices. bottom line is testing them in weredictable ways so activate these devices. that's the bottom line you taking broader actions now that you've learned software codehow used. deceptive >> yes we do. >> are you going to do that? are. >> can you explain that? >> we have a number of different do.s of testing we we test every new model of vehicle. we require the manufacturers to test every new model and submit that data to us. we audit certain percentage of testing them our laboratory.

we also audit by measuring real emissions using these mobile devices. going to be a combination testing,aboratory activity testing. we know how to download this software. to vw, does epa know yet can successfully fix the cars here in the u.s.? yet. don't know that >> vw has a number of internal investigations. have volkswagen committed to sharing the results of those investigation with the epa? .> they have not let me defer to my colleague here. have you asked them for that information? agree at thisnot time. >> have you asked them whether thatwill claire information with the epa?

>> we have outstanding official document request. we learned this morning about one particular investigation and that is certainly -- >> will you let the committee know if vw does not provide the results of their internal investigation. thanks. >> we have a vote coming up. >> i just wanted to make one submit this with consent. solution is to give epa more solution. he said you don't want to rely on the happenstance and the investigation. members to ask mib

questions. do we have?ks >> on september 25th of 2015, announced they will be conducting an additional testing to 58. evaluate. >> we teamed up with california and environment canada. have the capabilities. >> how many vehicle have you tested? thee are still testing first batch of vehicles

>> what are you seeing so far? >> i have not seen any data yet -- >> we've been careful not to with the automaker. we want to be unpredictable. a combination of both these five cycles. cycle. call off >> does this include all light vehicles or just diesel technology? diesels.starting with >> would you be willing to the committee informed. >> yes. >> do you think that this is an isolated incident. with dieselconcerns technology in general? >> i don't have concerns with diesel technology in general. we're going to be taking a close look. mr. chairman.k

>> we only have six minutes to get to the floor to make job is it consumers whole? consumer the protection agency. there are other federal agencies and state agencies that have responsibility. as i testified earlier, the consumer will be central to how we are reviewing the options to emissions. >> the excess emissions now are the epa standard. we just heard testimony from votes, i have a letter sent to owners that says you can still drive them. under what authority does the these cars that are emitting 10 to 40 times the allowed amount, to continue to the road?

>> the responsibility and the for those competentes -- that why we're conducting this investigation and learn lag remedy is and then pursuing mitigation. some states --t to bring their car then the consumer could be emissions. for the our devices that these s will defeat -- >> in the meantime, half a million cars running around that emissions.g greater what, then, does the epa do? be for a year.ld maybe more than a year before any real fix

>> i don't know how throng will take to get the real fix. enforcementour enforc action will be to make the economy whole. there's a half million cars that consumers are drive.ey can legally that are meeting more than than say.roll what's happening now to hold that?ccountable for you don't have to test them. line.ow they're over the >> the owners of these vehicles are innocent in this matter. we are working with california to make thesew vehicles compliance. that weare confident have the right remedy, we'll recalls.se the >> will they be penalized for

these noncompliant cars? >> the consumers? >> no, the company the result will be of our ongoing investigation. that's what will be determined by the investigation part of this don't you know already? those carsat all of are exceeding your rules. i don't get if. are many things we don't know. we don't know the why, what and where. >> you know the fact of it though. is volkswagen designed and installed illegal software. ofthey're admitting all these extra emissions. >> we've not done that yet.lation we know they can be anywhere times. to 40 i've done the math to find out tons are. excess

back.ield >> ms. clark. >> thank you mr. chairman. pick up on the floor colleague withmy respect to the emissions testing. new york state is one of those states that requires emissions testing. typically f you're a -- typically, you can be fined. mostse of this device, likely those vehicles would not be detected. >> correct. >> however, that doesn't change the fact that the normal these vehicles would not be permitted on the road. your agency say, because it's not your fault, you can continue to drive. doesn't it sort of undermine the

state requirement for certain emissions level to be contain. for you to undermine that with most people-- for when their vehicle has emission problem, don't recognize it or think it's their fault either. remedy it. fine.ise we're have the self-vehicles running around in certain that would fail that. how do you reconcile that? >> the fines are a matter of state law. to reconcile that is to remedy. an effective

remedy is fixed, those vehicle will pass the state inspections. >> the challenge that this has been happening with vehicles since 2009. we have no idea when this remedy up. be cooked we don't know that remedy will be hard and fast. we're hoping. there's going to be testing. concerngoing to be going forward because of the deception of how all of this occurred. about software here. how do we reconcile that? determine those do require -- how many vehicles, are you resident states.hose what the immediate impact will be to the environment of the

in thoseat reside state naps we've been able to get a sense of that. be determined as result of our investigation. is mobile -- we want to have the confidence that it will be effective. timehat will require some >> do you that i want you will hearing from state attorney generals and other concern states. within these probably their own environmental protection organizations at the get acontroversial try to handle around this. certain area where is --s type of emission troubled circumstances for healthual who have compromise.

will all go into part how we're going to resolve this. closing, you've been able your -- analysisan, if you be helpful. we like to attribute that to maybe the changes that occurred in the atmosphere as a result of maybe a cluster of ownership. -in a particular jurisdiction.

i think that's going to be very for us to know. understand we'll do whatever we can to serve the committee. >> i yield back add on top of her question she gave. if you gather information with and rule andte alsotampering laws, it's whether a criminal penalties. we would appreciate that as you're getting this information for us. this will be helpful for the committee. consent to the document to be introduced into the record. be enteredts will the record. i want to thank the witness for coming today. we appreciate your time and your this difficult matter. thank you for testimony and to their devotion.

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ceo tim cook. hids remarks are 15 minutes.

[applause] . >> this year, the person i had the pleasure of introducing tonight made headlines when he spoke his truth to the world. he said it in a beautiful and heartfelt way than to being gay was one of the greatest gifts god had given them. there is no doubt in my mind that his courage and those words saved lives. when the lgbt community fails to a wave of more than 120 lgbt bills in states that target us because of how we are, how god made us, tim cook spoke up again. the company he leads today as one of the first in the nation

to and doors the equality act. and, time and time again, tim has been willing to use his remarkable voice for good. to lift up those in our community who need it the most. that is why we are proud, so proud to honor him tonight with the visibility our lord. tim grew up in the south. a native alabamians. alabama is in the house. while california is a long way from the bible belt, the values instilled in him from an early age -- integrity, decency, and treating people with the respect they deserve, that is

at the core of who he is. i have gotten to know tim over these past few years and i have learned he feels passionately about leaving this world a better place the and he pounded. it is what he calls his true north. as a result of his leadership, apple today is readily credited with some of the most impactful this is in the world when it comes to consumer privacy, and environmental responsibility, diversity, and inclusion. his courage, his career, and his leadership at apple show lgbtq people that they can and should dream as big as their mind will allow. now, let's take a look at what some of his friends and colleagues have to say about him.

>> welcome back everybody, my next guest is the ceo of apple and one of the most influential people of 2015, please welcome r. tim cook. > you yourself came out as gay i think hess cool. >> knowing that the leader of the company that i work for, he boss' goss' boss' boss is advocating for the rights of those who have been disenfranchised is working for us flt >> tim is a courageous person. a person who has spoken truth o power and a person who wants

to help. >> everyone deserves basic level of human rights regardless of their color, regardless of their religion regardless of their sexual orientation regardless of their ender.

tim raised himself to give everyone permission to embrace themselves. >> i think he is a great ceo and he does make apple different. >> tim is a courageous person. a person who has spoken truth to power and a person who wants to live in the values that to mean that the most to him. came out as gay recently, was that just a feature that had not been turned on? >> he is a champion for all people. knowing that the leader of the company i work for, the boss's boss's boss is fighting for those who have been disenfranchised makes the beyond proud. >> tim is a courageous person

who has spoken truth to power, and a person who wants to live the values that mean the most to him. >> everyone deserves a basic level of human rights, regardless of their color, regardless of their religion, regardless of their sexual orientation, regardless of the gender. >> there is residents when a corporate leader speaks up on an issue. when you're the head of the largest company and the most innovative company and probably the most culturally significant company in the world, the most followed company in the world, it resonates so much more widely. >> it is about finding your values and committing to live by them. >> tim sacrificed his privacy to ensure the generation of young people matter, whoever they are. >> people are drawn to authenticity, to people who are true to themselves. i may not like it, i may not like you, but i like you are standing for something. >> when you hear someone like tim cook saying that is who i am, it gives people the strength and courage. >> the whole point of being vulnerable is to inspire others to be vulnerable, too. for time to, in such a beautiful way, and brace himself, it gives everyone else permission to embrace themselves. >> he is a great ceo, and he do make apple different. it's not bad to be different. â >> tim being very honest with the world about who he is challenges the status quo. i think examples like tim give people hope. >> i just keep thinking of my experience as a kid growing up and trying, desperately, to try to find someone i could aspire to be. today, kids around the world have him. >> tim, from the bottom of my heart, congratulations. >> on behalf of my family, congratulations on this great honor. >> this is an honor well-deserved. >> from all your friends in the heart of dixie, congratulations. >> i would like to take one photo. this is the best view in the world. >> the best is yet to come. when it comes to tim and what he is going to do, and the impact he will have in so many areas.

â >> please join me in welcoming, this year's visibility award recipient, apple ceo tim ook. tim: thank you. thank you. i love to see the iphones. thank you. thank you for the incredibly generous introduction and for everyone in that video. chad, thank you even more for your incredible leadership of the human rights campaign.

you have been president for -- three years? think what happened. a bold initiative with project one in the south. the right to marriage equality grounded in the constitution and upheld by the supreme court. ven a rainbow flag projected n the white house. i cannot wait to see what you have for number four. vice president biden, thank you for your kind words. it is an honor to share the stage with you tonight. you showed tremendous political courage on the question of marriage equality, and no one in this room, or this country will ever forget it. i am honored to be here this evening, and i am proud to be a

part of this community. i also want to recognize my coworkers hear from apple. they represent the many talented people who make up our company more than 100,000 individuals from all walks of life, were dedicated to making the best products on earth and believe we should leave the world better than we found it. we do that through our products and policies. we do that through our partnerships with organizations like the hrc. we have been proud to stand with you in the fight for equal rights. against the wave of nd with you

pro-discrimination bills. we were proud to celebrate with you onhat momentous ruling in june. it was a rare and special moment to watch our nation turned back a page in the history books. it marked a victory for a quality, perseverance and love. it also inspires us to keep up the fight. last year, around this time as some of you might remember, i wrote an essay that was deeply personal. i wanted to lend my voice to people who might not be ready to exercise theirs. it was an open letter to the public, but it was addressed most of all to everyone who had been rejected by their friends, or communities, or even their families, simply because of who they are. i will tell you, i did not do

t for attention. i am a private person by nature. growing up, i was taught that you distinguish yourself and life by what you do, not buy what you say or how loudly you say it. sometimes, you just have to be oud. people need to hear that being gay is not a limitation. people need to hear that being gay does not restrict your options in life. people need to hear that you can be gay or transgender and be whatever else you want to in life. a ceo or senator, and a lithic athlete, -- an olympic athlete, an award-winning actor or actress, an amazing husband, life, father or other. i thought that was worth sharing. the response over this year has

been overwhelming, and i have been deeply humbled. i have heard from people of all ages, all over the world, in all kinds of circumstances. some struggling with how to open up, others wishing that they could do more to help their loved ones. some people have written and said it is the first time they have discussed their sexual orientation with anyone. some wrote to say they had always thought there was a glass ceiling they would never break through in their careers. many have shared stories, painful stories, of feeling less than, other than, left out, pushed out. they are all stories that all of us know. for they are our stories,

too. some of the most touching notes i received are from parents who love their children more than anything, and cannot bear to see them struggle for acceptance. some of the most hopeful notes are from folks who are just happy to see the world changing for the better. i want to share one of them with you tonight from a man in oregon. a vietnam veteran. he wrote, tim, i hope that someday people will look at announcements such as yours and greet them with a young. -- yawn. we should simply accept people as who they -- for who they are as citizens for being good human beings and for enhancing our lives in doing their best. isn't that the american way? it is of course.

it is profoundly american, but it is still in so many ways an aspiration. we are closer than ever to the days martin luther king dreamed of when his children would only be judged by the content of their character. hat day is not here yet, because 31 states, more than half the stars on our american flag have no laws to protect gay and transgender people from discrimination. no state legal protection from being fired or is acted because of who you are or who you love. that day is not here yet, kids are still being told they will never amount to anything. or get sent to reparative therapy for a cure. or get bullied to the brink of suicide. or get pushed into believing they are somehow defective when

they are just the way that god made them. that day is not here yet when some people claim exemption from what is written in the constitution that no state shall deny americans the equal protection of the law. that day is not here. last year, i wrote that being gay is a gift. or as stephen colbert put it, a feature. i don't know about you, but it has given me, through my life experience, tremendous insight and empathy for the struggle of other groups marching for inequality. goodness knows, the lgbt community is not the only ones facing inequality at work, at school, or in renting an apartment, or adopting a

child. the way i look at this is simple. discrimination against anyone holds everyone back. veryone. as all of us know, discrimination doesn't simply fade. it does not recede of its own accord. it has to be pushed back, challenged, overcome and kept at bay. that requires determination. that requires vigilance. hrc has a great deal of both. i said earlier that partnership was essential. that is certainly true in the next phase of this fight. we don't get to know which sigel -- civil rights struggles are on the horizon, but we do

know that for a quality to triumph, it will take advocates and activists like hrc and global companies like apple. we all have a role, and apple will continue to play our role by remaining open to everyone. regardless of where they come from, what they look like, how they worship, or who they love. we will continue to create products that empower people and bring them together. and continue to pursue policies that advance inclusion and ever city. -- and diversity. will continue to partner with you. i urge everyone here tonight to keep talking, to keep pushing, and yes, to keep fighting for a world where everyone is treated equally. where, together, we will pave the sunlit path to justice.

thank you very much for this enerous award. [applause]

>> republican presidential candidate donald trump weighed in on kevin mccarthy dropping out of the speaker's race.

[applause] ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

>> you won't hear this in the media -- but donald -- [applause] donald gave $20 million to the st. jude's children home, $20 million. [applause] he decided to give it to children with cancer. that's donald trump.

by the way donald has more hispanics, hundreds of thousands and they'll love him, believe me. [applause] >> thank you everybody, thank you. thank you very much. thank you. so nice, thank you. thank you very much. what a great career. you know they have hundreds and hundreds of people standing outside the can get in. they didn't get the good real estate. you got there good real estate. i feel badly. i feel badly. [applause] bill ruffin owns this hotel and he has been a friend of mine and we did deal together. it's a great thing to be

involved with somebody that is so talented and so smart. such a great business person bill ruffin and he's a great poker player. i at least put my money on him and make game of poker and he always walks away quietly and takes everybody's money and goes on to the next one. that's what we want. thank you, i love you too. i want to start by saying kevin mccarthy is out, you know that right? [applause] and they're giving me a lot of credit for that because a city really need somebody very very tough and very smart. like me, thank you. i like that guy over here whoever it is.

it's bedlam in washington right now, it's a mess. i've never seen anything like it. i've been doing this for a long time. i've always been in politics. for three months have been a politician. it's so embarrassing, i'm a politician. i never wanted to be a politician but at some point they said we are going to make our country great again and everybody assumed. [applause] but kevin is a nice guy and i hope they find somebody that's going to have those qualities where we can negotiate and use the debt ceiling is coming up very rapidly and do something really significant. if we don't we are going to be really we are going to be in very big trouble. we are going to be in very big trouble. we are in a big beautiful bubble right now and i predicted the last couple and i'm telling you we are going to get her act together or we are going to be greece on steroids. that's what's going to happen.

there's nothing wrong with republicans taking a tough stance and sticking with it. [applause] i wrote the article deal and i think is the biggest selling business book of all times. who doesn't have that? i the way of coming out with anyone in about three weeks. do you know what it's called? crippled america. can you believe that? what a difference. that was a long time ago. now i am doing one called crippled american as much as i hate to call it that it sort of happened by mistake. we had a photographer of a great book publishing company simon & schuster, the best.

maybe i shouldn't say that. we want to keep it here but you know it's a really great company and they sent this fantastic tugger for andy took pictures. i'm smiling. like life is a bowl of cherries. in the meantime china is taking our jobs we are losing to isis and we don't know what we are doing. is it true? so i have all these pictures smiling but i had a couple i guess i wasn't prepared and i was nasty looking. and then i said maybe we should use that picture instead of the nice pictures. i'm not going to give it to my family are anything but maybe we should use it so i have the nastiest looking picture. honestly for a period of time that's what we have got to do. we have got to put our heads down and straighten out this mess. nobody can do it like me. nobody. nobody can do it like me.

[applause] i will bring our jobs back. you know what's interesting "cnn" did a poll. look at all the cameras up there. every time they had me on live of these other guys make the same speech over and over again and they read it. if i say the same thought twice i get criticized. he said that three weeks ago. how many thoughts and you have? jobs think the military is in trouble and the vets are being poorly taken care of and we are going to straighten it out. [applause] we are going to reveal obama -- repeal obamacare. [applause] we have to. we have to. we don't have a choice. look at the response i get. sometimes it's not the biggest response. my stance on immigration is first of all i just met with a

whole group of hispanics. and what else that i really appreciated. i did know he's going to say that but currently thousands of hispanics, incredible people. my relationship is great. they did a poll and everybody probably saw the poll. i won with hispanics in the state of nevada. [applause] they are incredible people. and i think i won for two reasons but one of them is they know i'm going to bring jobs back to this country. we are going to take their jobs back and people are going to have jobs because this 5.3 and 5.5%, we have close to 100 million people that are out of work. they're out of the work worse. we have 50 million people in poverty. they are considered poverty like third world. our infrastructure, our airports are worse than third world. you fly into kennedy lax were

like a third world country. i get along with everybody. by the way i do, i do. i don't dislike -- i have the biggest bank in the world like seriously big. the rent comes then, boom like clockwork i don't have to worry. i have tremendous relationships with mexico, with china, with everybody. the problem is we are not being led right. when china japan brazil, name a country anybody. name any country, they are taking advantage of us. france, they are taking advantage of us. you know that because you know what they are doing with iran. you could name any country. russia, that's a pretty easy one. russia.

he's having a field day dealing with our leaders because our leaders are incompetent. they are incompetent. [applause] so we have had -- or even israel. if you look at israel we are taking advantage of israel if you think about it because what we did with that stupid deal with iran is the worst thing that has probably happened to israel since the initial israel, since day one. i would say maybe, maybe potentially the worst thing that ever happened as israel and i have so many jewish friends now. some continue to support them. it's almost like what are we doing here? they support them but they say say -- and the whole thing is crazy. he has been so bad to israel and

bb is a great guy. i know him. i thought he made a great speech the other day the meditations. i was one of the few people, he asked me to make an ad for him. i was honored and it took all credit for it. full credit. but we have a problem with somebody different things. i love talking about this, the media. do we love the media? [booing] the level of dishonesty is incredible and i always ask the press, not all of them, some are fun but the level of honesty in the media is so dishonest. i will do a crowd and i'll have a crowd like this and the cameras never panorama.

they never panned the room. it's true. they don't do it. [applause] they don't do it. pan around. go ahead, panic but they won't. i was in oklahoma the other day, unbelievable. we had 20,000 people in this massive park and there were more than 20,000. i'm now going low because if i tell people more they say oh i wasn't. i had one crowd with a group from politico who is totaled -- totally dishonest, politico. bernie sanders in the look and i have far more people than him but it's important because it shows the dishonesty. when i was in oklahoma the other day and we had 20,000 people at least. we added band show with a thing

the thing in the back all chrome crete. you can't see anything. we must have had two or 3000 people. i was saying they can't see anything. there was a stage with this massive wall behind me. we had much more than 20. i have actually become very conservative and this is what i get criticized. i went home and my wife said how was it? was a crowded? it's true. she said they had the camera on your face the entire time and they never panned the crowd. they are terrible. the media is terrible. i'm going to go into a whole thing. no, they are terrible. pan, they won't turn the camera. and they won't put this part on because they never put it on. what are you pan the camera's? they don't want to do that.

[applause] it's terrible. look, they don't move. my wife tells me, how was the crowd in the home of? i said it was amazing. i thought you watch. i did but they never showed how many people were there and then the reporter got on. donald trump is here and it made a speech in oklahoma. and he left. [laughter] i said every record. he was here and he made a speech , little controversial. he's a little controversial. they are really dishonest people. the same thing in dallas. i went to dallas and they treated me fairly good they are. mark cuban called me up is a good guy and he owns the mavericks and he said i would love you to use the place. i said when? it was thursday when he called.

how many seats? he said we have 20,000 seats so we had the floor filled up and we had the place a few days. i think they sold 12 or 15 the first day. it was a holiday and i got there and it was incredible. but they don't really -- i will tell you a great story. today in one of the big newspapers "new york times" we never did better. we are hotter than ever. i think we were 32 of 35. remember this. [applause] it's disgusting and the reporter that did the story was totally inaccurate, and calls of my people and says i want to meet with mr. trump. he never even spoke to me. so they did a story. is he winning? yesterday morning i won the

state of florida. i was at 28 or 29. so think of this. the governor of the state, bush, former. no, hey honestly and rubio the senator. [booing] rubio was the gang of eight. very weak on immigration. bush is in favor of common core. so that means your children, right? that means your children are going to be educated by the bureaucrats in washington. i don't think so. so this reporter called up my people. i have great people. i would love to speak to mr. trump. she writes this horrible story and she didn't say we had 24 million people at the debate. the biggest -- and the history

of "cnn" and fox had the biggest audience in cable i think they said. and by the way those were the preliminary numbers. i have a big chunk of the apprentice. i get a lot of the profits on the apprentice so you cannot tell the enemies i left. the head of is an amazing guy. he came up along with the head of reality television and they come out to my office. they said we want you and we will do anything. he's one of the biggest executives. i said honestly i think i'm going to run and i want to make our country great again. i think i'm going to run, i think. and he said i don't know but

just in case so they had there up front. usually the biggest place in manhattan and they announced their schedule. they announced that the apprentice is going to be extended with donald trump. season 15 and they didn't want to go beyond that. they said if you run, it's called equal time so if i do the apprentice you have to let other people let's say lindsey graham to a two-hour show on television. i don't think so, right? so basically you are precluded. what happened was i said no, no so they announced it and they sell the advertising and it's is one of the easier shows on television. even after allthese years, 12 years 12 million copies and now they extend the extend. i'm honored and i get a call from mark or net.

he said i can't believe you are turning down an extension. nobody turns down an extension. i'm giving up a lot, believe me. on top of it, on top of that i'm self-funding my own campaign. i'm putting up my own money. [applause] i'm the only one. [applause] it's amazing the response. all these guys are totally controlled by the special-interest and the lobbies. i've been there. now all of a sudden i went like this. so i turned it down and begin the story from a very dishonest paper. donald trump gets fired from nbc. [laughter]

they know it's not true. in fact i did a big chunk of the show. i created it with mark or nat. they said trump gets fired by nbc. and they know it's not true. they said yeah we knew but it just sounds better. they are such a dirty, rotten liars. so i gave up the apprentice and then i said we had to put down in certified numbers and they said they be trump won't run because that's a big thing. then they say he will never do for me. he would never do it, too smart. that's the kind of guy we need but he's not going to do it. he's happy. got a great family and lots of rate things so they will say he never filed for me.

he will never file financials because maybe he is not that rich. by the way i was one of the few that filed on time. these guys have one page. i work with some companies. it's true. and they were late. they needed extensions and i filed on time. i actually filed ahead of schedule. they found that my company and phil would know because he knows my company is much bigger much stronger much richer than they ever thought possible. they couldn't believe it. from that day i had done this and my wife, it's very interesting. has anyone heard of avon to and milani asked. they are two great women. you watch they are going to come out and start campaigning pretty soon they're going to be great. they believe so strongly in

women's health issues that bush by the way didn't want. hillary puts on the vote, how dare he talk about it? she acted indignant. here's a woman cheating the united states government for years with her e-mails. [applause] they gave petraeus, has a criminal record now and for doing one tenth of what she did. and i don't know i think she's going to get away with it. can you believe that? i think she's going to get away with it. general petraeus, good guy. they destroyed his life. what he did with 2% of what she did. i look forward to running against her because frankly that's come to be such a big issue. it's going to be such a big issue. [applause] and don't forget she will fight

very hard because she has to win because the statutes of limitations in six years and do you know what that means? there is some guy up there that's probably a lawyer and he's laughing like hell. if a republican gets in and they have to look at this, 60 or so she's fighting for her life. i think the democrats are going to leave her alone because it's a corrupt system and we have a corrupt system. i think they will leave her alone but if a republican gets in i'm not saying she's guilty, they have to check in but if they get a republican in they have a six years statute of limitations. so she's really fighting. so she's really fighting for her life in a sense and it's very interesting she said i don't like donald trump's tone. i don't like his tone reagan bush said the same thing.

and rubio said it to. they said i don't like donald trump's tone. i say wait a minute we need a tough tone. are we tired? [applause] weak, pathetic, sad people that don't have a clue that won't do anything we are going to make the country better than it's ever been before. we have a chance to do it. [applause] so they said we don't like mr. trump's tone. they want to be low key. lets fall asleep and china did you ever see china's tom? believe me i deal with them. they don't talk about it's a beautiful day mr. trump. this guy is so beautiful. it's all business. we want to extend lease. there are no games.

there are no games, no smalltalk there is no smalltalk. there is no how is the weather? it's all business with these people. when i deal with china and i love china, love the people. i love the mexican people. they are great but i deal with china and a walk in with waves of people, smart people. but i will tell you china can come in and you are sitting there by yourself and you have 25 people. if you are good you can do deals that are unbelievable. so i asked my people last week, i said and tell me what is the trade imbalance with china? i was surprised.

it's almost $400 billion a year. essentially that means that means we are losing 4 billion. it gets worse than that it does they devalue the currency so they are taking our jobs, they are taking our base and our manufacturing and then on top of it think of this one, china is our largest creditor along with japan. wheat you owe each of them one point $5 trillion of a steeler jobs, they take her money and we owe them money. how do you figure that one? not too good. i call it a magic act. we owe them $1.5 trillion. we owe japan 1.5 trillion dollars. i was in los angeles and i saw the bigger ships i've ever seen.

the cars are pouring out of the ships like the long island expressway. the are going 50 miles an hour up the ramp. it's almost like the ramp, and a few cell last week it was in one of the papers. they have a wall, the great wall they built a ramp. the wall was so small they didn't have to bother tearing it down. how stupid are we? but china we have an imbalance. almost 400 eading dollars a year. if that's the number you know what's worse. and the government gives you number they say 5.3% unemployment. the number is probably 32% rate i saw one report done by a credible guide saying our unemployment rate is 42% because when you add back 100 million people you are right up there with those numbers but its half

of 100 so we have a 25% unemployment rate. this is done by politicians so that they look good. if you stop looking for a job statistically or considered that you have a job. then they say unemployment s down and we are down to 5.3. we are not down. i wouldn't have caught on to be honest. i would have been catching on if the economy were real. the phony set of numbers. they cooked the books. have you ever heard the expression? the politicians cooked the books so what happens is they get the reports yesterday in the reports are amazing. i love polls. somebody said they talked about polls and the other people down. that's because i'm winning and the other people are losing. i saw last night on television.

there may be a time when they stop talking about it. if i number two, three, four or five some of these guys have nothing. they have zero. out of 20,000 people they have zero. how do you do that? to me that's more impressive than leaving. it's true. i saw a television ad. i was in iowa yesterday. aipac's overflow crowd amazing to you. the like you they want to see the country be strong. i was talking about the polls. one of the reporters is here today. they said on television mr. trump talk about the polls. i thought to myself maybe i can talk about polls too much and then i realized i've been waiting since i came out. and maloney a my wife and my

daughter said you know dad if you ever run you're going to win. why do you say that? because nobody thinks you are running. when they pull you before i signed my life away because that's what you do. you know it takes guts to run for office. especially if you're not a politician. nobody understands what's going on. so here's what happens. florida winning big. florida. 28, 29%. that's it great importance today. anybody from pennsylvania? we love pennsylvania. i'm leading big. ohio. ohio. so the poll comes out and it's quinnipiac which is a great

polling company. it's the real deal and they just hate it. i'm leading ohio and i'm leading with a good governor. he is the good guy and i'm leading by a lot. people say what's going on? than they have a poll come out which is a great pull and i have 35%. 35%. [applause] so we get as i said the highest ratings in the history of "cnn". the highest ratings and by the way, i love these things. who won the debate? every single poll, "time" magazine, and drudge, places i never heard of everyone said trump but then i hear on the television donald had a bad night tonight.

i thought i won. first of all, i like "cnn." i think roger ailes is great from fox but i go home and i watch it and i say i'm going to watch myself on television. who wouldn't do it? then i see the pundits coming, these highly paid guys. and they say they didn't like it and i was good in the first debate. and they said for 28 minutes i didn't say anything at the end. i wasn't asked any questions. i wanted to say but it was so dishonest. so for the first two hours everything was me. it was either question to me. these guys are honorable guys. stand up. they are rich guys. these guys are loaded. that's why they are in the first

row. of course i was hurt in the theater the fourth rows with us. so they won out and they do this thing on television. i'm saying i can understand it. my doctor says that every single polling organization they all say you one. but on the "cnn" debate, it was two hours. a two-hour debate. it was two hours and they made it three hours. it was a two-hour debate when i got there. don't ruin my story. it was a two-hour debate and then a day and a half or two days before what happened is it was in variety and hollywood with porter. a terrific group. they did a nice cover story on me. i like them but they did a story ou