means that all of this information can now be analyzed. more is available than ever before and it can be subjected to sophisticated algorithms generating new knowledge in the process. this large mass collection at the same time looks a lot like what the founders were trying to avoid by preventing the government from using promiscuous search authority. what gave birth to the fourth amendment. , in 1946, churchill warned us from this very place about the dangers attached to tyranny. that great power will erode the ancient rites by which english-speaking people rely. concernt without great that i returned to his words. face new enemies, it is our liberty that continues to define who we are. of centuries, the rejection

general warrant was essential for our understanding of the rule of law. but due to emerging technologies in the government's effort to , this fightnologies is not ours alone. the united kingdom, one of our closest allies, has itself been featured in the pages of "the guardian" and "the washington post" in participating in massive collection of information. his father, lord randolph churchill, carried the line of lord of marlborough, while his mother was an american. he became the first honorary citizen effort of the united states -- citizen ever of the united states and only the second to be awarded an honorary citizenship during their

lifetime. he said security is gained through freedom. the united states and the united kingdom have, throughout our history's, pay a high price for the protection of liberties that we both hold dear. shall we not falter as we move to the future and the dawn of the digital age. [applause] >> coming up tomorrow, a discussion about domestic terrorism with assistant attorney general for national security. live coverage from george i 10:00on university a.m. eastern here on c-span. beginning, i look in the mirror and i don't see a president. our response that was, quit looking in the mirror. from the very beginning, he just

said this is nothing i ever thought about. "q&a," aunday on former public relations executive on his book about his longtime friend mitch daniels and his decision not to run for president in 2012. >> i think he became convinced as we got to the end of the process that he is very competitive and if he had made a decision to do it, he would have had his heart and soul into it. the very beginning, it was not something he ever really thirsted after. >> sunday night on 8:00 eastern and pacific. c-span has your coverage of the road to the white house 2016, where you will find the candidates, the speeches, debates, and most importantly, your questions. this year, we are taking our coverage into classrooms across the country with our school cam

contests, giving students the opportunity to discuss what issues they want to hear from the most for the candidates. follow it on tv, radio, and online at c-span.org. "washington journal" looked at the criminal justice system in visited every county, maryland correctional facility. we talked to the officials who run the facility about rehabilitation of inmates, prison safety, and providing mental health and substance abuse treatment for prisoners. ey get released. we will talk about all of that coming up. first, during a speech this summer, president obama laid out his vision for reforming the criminal justice system, highlighting the work by the montgomery county, maryland, correctional facility. [video clip]

pres. obama: our prisons should trainlace where we can people for skills that can help them find a job. not freedom to become more hardened -- not train them to become more hardened criminals. [applause] like itwant to pretend is all easy. some places are doing better than others. montgomery county, maryland, put a job-training center inside the prison walls to give folks a head start in thinking about what might you do otherwise than commit crime. that is a good idea. , oneis another good idea with bipartisan support in congress, let's reward prisoners with reduced sentences if they can be -- complete programs that make them less likely to commit

a repeat offense. [applause] innovative new approaches to link former prisoners with employers. help them stay on track. let's follow the growing number of our states and cities and private companies who have box on jobban the application so that former prisoners who have done their time and are now trying to get straight with society have a decent shot in a job interview. [applause] and for folks who serve their tribe -- time, and have reentered society, should be able to vote. [applause]

communities that give our young people every shot at success, courts that are tough but fair, prisons that recognize that eventually the majority will be released and seek to prepare these returning citizens to grab that second chance, that is where we need to build. about 30 miles northwest of washington, d.c. is the town of boyds, maryland. the correctional facility is there which houses over 1000 inmates. joining us from there is the former warden, robert green. thank you for your time this morning. let's begin with where you are sitting right now. what is this room used for? guest: i am in one of our housing units at the montgomery county correctional facility. it is a 64-bed direct supervision housing unit.

host: what is this room used for on a typical day? guest: montgomery county corrections facility is built around a theory called direct supervision. that is where the officer is resonant with the inmate population 24 hours a day. we have 27 units that are similar to this. 64 individuals that would be housed here and this idea of direct supervision provides us with the opportunity to provide one good safety, inmatey to the population but also affords the opportunity to bring programming into the units. we have a model called therapeutic community. we are trying to take issues, 64 men or women depending on where they are housed and concentrate on issues that are important to them that have maybe brought them to the facility.

one is a substance abuse treatment facility. we are one of four maryland counties. orare not talking about aa na, but we are providing substance abuse treatment. they could be education units or life skills. one of the more complex units for us to run is the crisis intervention unit where we are dealing in quite an increase in the serious and persistently mentally ill coming into the systems. host: it is a maximum-security facility. how do you keep order in an open room like that? looking at you are county jails and how we generally function, the difference between jails and prisons -- i heard you say earlier, it is very distinct. jails are primarily pretrial facilities. confinement less than 18 months. it is not by the number of staff

you have but it is really to a good objective jail classification system. we spend about 40 man-hours using instruments and tools to classify individuals, looking at all of their psychosocial needs. what we can do to benefit them while they are incarcerated here. it is really a science. begins with a physical plan that you want to be safe and designed in a manner that it does not lend itself to abuse or misuse. the big piece for us is the model that we use -- i'm losing my piece, the model that we use to classify our population and provide them the information. the piece not to be overlooked that all is the well, tuned in, correctional staff. we often think about correctional staff as just officers in uniforms.

we have everything here from mental health therapists to case managers to correctional officers and social workers. that whole myriad of staff that you bring to bear on the population while they are here. our focus is to make sure that everybody who leaves the facility leaves better connected and has the resources to exist back in the community that we are sending them to. if you look at the data in america's jails and i think this would hold true whether it is montgomery county or across the country. 90-94% ofetween individuals are returning back to the streets. often readunity, we with great interest there will be 650,000 released from america's prison system. we know that in 2007 when we began studying it that a love and million people will pass through america's jail systems.

we are the deep end of the pool in that context and the programs and how we use the units and the staff that we have -- we can really make a difference. host: tell us about the numbers. how do you know that? how can you prove it? say thatr us, i would dealing with this idea of mass incarceration from a government county has been a marathon and not a sprint. it really started looking across the board of what we could do for our incarcerated population. 1989, we took a look at things like pretrial diversion. in some areas you don't have pretrial programs. pretrial diversion is the opportunity to really do a risk analysis were you are not looking at bond or monetary bond. the sole issue that keeps an individual in jail. if i were arrested, maybe i am given a $5,000 bond within our

state. to some people that may be a low monetary amount to secure my freedom and for some that may be 5 million. montgomery county started looking at pretrial detention. what can you do to manage people in our community? when you look at the statistics, we have 2500 under supervision in our system today. of that number, 71% are under supervision in the community. allowsve a program that them to work off their sentence in the community. of thosek assessment individuals that we place in those communities. or those programs. today, 678 are incarcerated inside the walls. pretrial.with we try to follow the science.

it is not new information. we have known over the last 20 years that focus on education -- i heard one of your colors talking about her son was able to receive a ged. thenow from studies out of a receipt of florida and others on education that if we can get an individual the basic education, they are 43% less likely to recidivate and return back to jail in three years. we know if we can get them past the three-year mark focusing on other things like employment, education and substance abuse treatment, and making sure that everything we are doing here in the jail has a level of continuity. again, i think that is something that we do so well in montgomery county. it is not a criminal justice system managed just by the director of corrections. i am responsible for it, but we have a very strong,

collaborative, working relationship throughout county government. through our communities and nonprofits that provide a service. all of those things make a difference and we are trying to follow the science. look we are taking a inside the correction system in this country with a visit to montgomery county correction facility in boyds, maryland. roberttalking with green, a director for the montgomery county department of correction and rehabilitation. talk about the inmates at the facility. why are they there? how long do they stay? are they partners in these programs you offer? questionat is a great and one that we receive frequently. the average length of stay here is about 48 days. that is the individual who is arrested by one of our police

agencies and comes into the central booking. we receive individuals from all of the agencies in the county. that is an individual that is here maybe eight hours are 10 hours going through the initial intake process and released to an individual that will spent 18 months in the system. i think that the inmate population is a willing partner. one of the first things you have to do is that people have to be safe. we can talk about all of the programs we do here, which i am very proud of, but that is all built around the aspect of safety and safety starts with an individual coming into a system where they don't feel they will be preyed upon. we have people. i would look at our population as a bell curve. about 20% coming in the door are very motivated to change their life and they want to do it this

time and get out the door. 20% on the backend are sitting on the cusp of potentially a life of crime or a career of crime. 60% of individuals that fallen that curve. it is the opportunity that we take for the first time they may be safe or sober in their life. in thesetrate services units. the population is a willing partner. any given day we have 500 or hoursarticipating, eight a day, some 24 hours a day in this therapeutic community model where they try to change their lives. forve been in corrections 31 years and i started off in a correctional officer in housing unit. if you give them dignity and topect and the opportunity

engage something in their life that really has a focus that has held them down and engages the soul, you see change. those that are not ready for the ready toe have to be house them safely and securely away from the population that wants to be involved. we always have to be ready. based on that point in their life. , and opportunity that they know they are ready for this change and we need to be nimble enough to bring them into the program. they are here for a defined period of time. what we do with them and how we treat them and the opportunity we give them, that is a very important to find period of time. years ofh 31 experience, mr. greene is here to take your questions in your comments. a special line for those of you with experience in the correctional system. walid into one lead --

pennsylvania. caller: thank you for taking my call. i like what he is talking about. my whole thing, i was on hold before he came on the line, but giving people opportunities when they, the line. people don't want to go back to jail. we don't have opportunities, but what are you going to do? you have to survive. the way that they got in there is probably to get money. a lot of times people are doing things just to do it, there trying to get a little bit of money. my thing is, give people opportunities and give them respect. i've never been down, but i have been locked up. once i came home from that stint, i got myself together. i have been working by the grace of allah, i have been fortunate.

like i said, he is talking some good stuff and everybody needs to do this. these guys are not all bad. give them the opportunity and they don't want to go back to jail. they want to take care of themselves and their families. they're not demons. appreciate your sentiments. it is a perfect lead-in to where we are going. , theat we are focusing on reentry programs. in 2005, we started really hearing about this word, reentry. the first thing that i want to say is there were great faith-based organizations called the going home programs. we built this facility. the director in the county. that we wouldm help people prepare just for the

journey that the gentleman explained. with 94% going back to the streets of our community, how can we make sure we are putting these transitions in place. in 2005 or 2006 we started looking at this idea of reentry for all. reentry prerelease and program that was community-based in montgomery county for 40 years now. we are individuals that qualify and have the appropriate sentence and can live inside a facility and work in the community. and prepare for the journey home. 25% of the about total population being released. we took this focus of reentry for all. what can we do for the individual that will be here for eight hours, to the individual that will spend six months or a year and prepare them for reentry. the idea was just to start bringing these community services in the door. for all of us, life can be a challenge.

down foryou have been six months or a year, losing that community contact, going out the door, perhaps having that reentry requirements from the courts that say, we want you to go to three aa or na meetings per week. we what you to find a place to live and get a job. tickets.our three bus good luck. we decided we were not going to be that kind of a county. but we think we were, really wanted to focus on the return to the community. that is why we brought the one-stop workcenter. we are told that we were the first. maybe it is a bit sad that we were. i'm glad that we opened the door for others. why waitthis idea of, to engage in employment when you have left out the door -- why not start engage that here?

so we put the one-stop workcenter in play that has really focused on preparation for job, interview, for life anding up to an employer being able to look them in the face and you can say i have had a felony conviction, here is what i have done in my life, rather than engage in employment. we really started focusing on the reentry programs. billed did, greta, was reentry programs where -- the only place you can find them wasn't in jail. we took what already existed in the community and brought it inside. we did not want to jail-based, one-stop, workcenter. we wanted a good program that happened to be in the jail. to be our third site which sets inside the jail. substance abuse

treatment programs, making sure the programs they had access to inside our walls was the same program they would engage in in the community. that is continuity making sure we opened our doors to the community providers that want to help, bring them in and let them engage in that population here so when the door opens and they are headed out they have all the tools in their hand to help them get in line. i had an individual as clean one day -- you are putting people to the front of the line ahead of me. that is not factual. what we are doing is trying to teach people how to get in line. these relationships with montgomery college, our health and human services is one of our key partners in helping connect people to the wealth of programs that they have. and that connection happening here before the doors open is really key. host: are you saying that employers are coming to the jail

to talk to these inmates about to be released? how do you convince them to make that trip? -- theit starts with one-stop workcenter, america's job center that we put here in 2005, it has the appearance of a workcenter that you would see in the community. the first piece is showing the dignity and the respect to the person walking in the door to say this is your opportunity. this is what you will see when you leave here. it is getting them prepared for that initial interaction. spending time there watching individuals go to the interview preparation, watching them go through the preparation and understanding what can they do in life? what are they good at? being able to go through those assessments with our job coaches. they are absolutely incredible.

more to the point, we have employers now coming in. we are doing job fairs. hire thisthat want to population and even employers interested in this population. so they can understand what these men and women going through? in preparation to come out and be a good employee? we just had a really good session with montgomery county nonprofit that works with our small business community. they came in last week and the week before that brought a number of small business leaders in to see what we are doing. in montgomery, we focused on been the box. allowing individuals to get that opportunity to sit in front of not be ruledand out of the process by a checkmark on the application. to sit in front of the employer and let that employer make a judgment based on what that

individual is telling them and what they have done in their life. that is a big focus for us. host: the lines have lit up for you. i will get into more calls. foremost, letand me qualify what i am getting ready to say. i was in the first class there in washington, d.c. when it was called the city college. in our fortunate enough prison institution that we had a number of prisoners that came into class with us. knowany cases we did not they were prisoners, but they enlightened the class. the learning, the education, socially and academically. it was something entirely different. many think that we were naive. today it explains so much and i learned so much from these people. done,ing is, what we have

in harming these people after they have served their time. when they get out, they can't get a job, can't get education or housing. can't get welfare and last but not least, they can vote. for all practical purposes they are a man without a country. why don't we treat them the same way that we people -- treat the people walking across the border? let them work. if they mess up then penalize them, but let them get a job. the best thing you can do for a person in this life is to get them a job so they are able to take care of themselves and their families. indiscretionsul that some of these people have done. right here in tulsa, oklahoma, the have a 16-year-old -- his 19-year-old brother killed five family members. stabbed the mother 48 times, but they are pleading on the mercy

of the court because the 16 your was just a youthful offender. at the same time that was a 15-year-old black kid with three joints in his pocket and he is locked up. when he gets rate to apply for a job, what is he going to do? check the box, no we can't take him. the recidivism is created by us as a society. host: i will leave it there because i wanted to share his thoughts. comment within the intelligence of what is happening in different jurisdictions. i can tell you what works here. i spent time talking to the inmate population, as does our staff. one of the things i mentioned that his key is this element of direct supervision. our staff are in direct contact all the time and they do a great job. an individual as

a human being not just one behind that cell wall. that is an important focus for us. the things you have talked about with reentry, that is how we do it, science says it will work. systems.re and more we are at this renaissance moment looking at what will work. well i know is i have a population here for a defined period of time that i do not control. the courts control, and bring to me. our mission is to do good more -- do more good than harm, and prepare them to go back out the door. i think we do a good job of that. i wish other leaders well. we are open to those conversations. i see a lot of change happening. i see a real renaissance moment in corrections where these programs -- i just had the

opportunity, i was with the macarthur foundation in chicago last week. in their program, they are 20 jurisdictions, counties, millions of dollars going into help them really look fromat their practices are incarceration, but what they do inside their jails, andy programs they offer -- and the programs they offer. it is happening. i think it is where we need to be. host: we are live this morning inside the montgomery county correctional facility, inside one of the housing units there, talking to mr. green, director for the county department of rehabilitation. thomas, go ahead, you are on the air. good morning. caller: good morning. my name is thomas, i limit the i live in des

moines, iowa. i am a license therapist. i need to give mr. green credit because he seems to be a sincere individual invested in change. i will value there is enough blame, responsibility, and complicity to go around. blame the inmates, there behavior, from an ethnicity standpoint, wife lame blacks, blacks blame whites, when in reality, there is enough responsibility for both to go around. the complicity comes around when it comes to the judicial system, there is a factor that we fail to look at. anbecoming incarcerated problematic because there is a financial incentive from the institutions. until i was involved in the

correctional system from being incarcerated for a simple misdemeanor, and then be told that unless you take the plea bargain, we are going to put you on a hold, in order to force you to take the plea bargain. on top of that, there is a financial incentive for the judicial system to do that because in iowa, if you spend a day in jail, that is $75. host: i what mr. green to talk about that. is there a financial incentive jail up?to fill the ge guest: absolutely not. , any not charge a bed fee of that. there is no financial incentive. our population is reducing. we are down 23% over the last eight years. .here is no incentive

i will say, in our county, the judiciary is very involved in our criminal justice court in any committee. it is an extremely strong organization of stakeholders -- our attorneys, our judges never miss the opportunity to come and talk about how each element of the system impacts the other. we look at a really holistic solution. there is no financial incentive here. we do not collect a fee inside yhe system for a day stay. we do not charge a fee for a meal. it is the opposite. our incentive is to appropriately reduce our population, were maintaining the safety of the public, the community, impacting a citizen -- there is no

incentive. host: talk about super max versus maximum-security at the facility there. guest: we are not in the super world. that comes out of the prison environment. i do not hear much about super maxes anymore. we are maximum-security based on this definition. behold everyone in a local jail that has had a crime of theft to individuals, allegedly killed two or three people. we have held individuals here -- i held the individuals here involved in the sniper trials many years ago. we have to be prepared to fulfill that mission across the scope. that is why we are maximum-security, but it is

quite a spread of individuals and behaviors. we deal with very serious people as well. some of the not ready for these programs of change. as i noted, we are here when they are. host: jess and myrtle beach, south carolina. you are on the air. andler: i spent 30 years -- i'm retired down in south carolina -- in a massachusetts system. i know it was the state system, so a prison system, not the jail system. all thesebout wonderful things you are doing, but even my wife, in the gel system, you only have the guys there for 100 or something days. my experience, after they graduate from the jail, and are sent to real prison, they come in, and you have to classify them based on how violent they are.

it is not as simple as everyone is going to reenter. they are all going to reenter, but most of them are substance abuse, alcoholics is the biggest , and unless you can correct that, they are not any good to employers. they have to get their ged's, , they haveo go to aa to go to work, even though it is not required. if you are not going to get to the lowest level which would be maximum to minimum -- host: mr. green, what you make of his comments? this is a jail in montgomery county, what can you do if your average day is 50-100 days? how can you correct the haber in that short amount of time? guest: you look at the time you have.

it is a snippet of time. if you have someone for eight hours, you can give them something they did not come in with. in eight hours, it is the information and resources available in our community in order to engage it. prison is not my world. i have never worked in a prison. i can tell you this, there are 30 states and the united states that have really started focusing on justice reinvestment. that is at the prison level, where they are looking at and really studying what services jail.ave inside a justice counsel, and we are in the process right now. 30 other states have actively engaged, and i can tell you what we are looking at in maryland, we are looking at program opportunity, the length of stay.

the motivation can be much different for a person who has light at the end of the tunnel and is a year away from release versus the person who is 10 years away from the release date. we are systematically studying that in american prisons and have undertaken that in maryland. if there is an interest by the office if they go to the of gun control website, he can see the work that marilyn has done with the justice thre counsel, and look at work from other states around the country. that work is truly underway. host: good morning, eric. i used to be a correctional officer myself. i really want to say thank you to director green and what montgomery county is doing. not only for the inmates, but

also how they treat the officers . we often forget about the people who spend the most time with the inmates. the police make the rest, the judge makes the sentence, but the inmate spends the rest of their sentence with the officer. usually the officer is not really appreciated. see on tv -- people look down on correctional someers, and also reflect the on offices. look at the nation's capital, washington, d.c., the d.c. jail does not have proper retirement

for the officers being i just wanted to say thank you, director, thank you for the job you are doing. officers are very important in the rehabilitation of inmates. host: mr. green? , as thell staff are gentleman said, do a tough job every day. all the pieces working hand-in-hand, we were able to build a facility that gives them an environment to do quality work. our staff are absolutely exceptional. in our county, we tried to make sure we compensate our staff well. to those, much is given, much is expected. they do an incredible job. we have great longevity. our staff come, they stay. i cannot give you an average, but out of 524 full-time staff

in the department of corrections, we have a considerable number that are business.ars in this we are very fortunate and proud of what we have cultivated. our county has helped us colts of a really great staff and support structure. host: when you look at the figures, the cost of personnel at the jail makes up 90% of the budget. we spoke with a couple of employees at the jail, when we were visiting, and talk to them about what they do at the job center there. this is what they had to say about why this work is important to them. [video clip] victim of aually a crime. when i was in middle school, my ,randfather was an entrepreneur two robbers came to our home, and they shot and killed my grandfather. i was a victim of a crime.

what i want these individuals to see is there is a face behind what you do, there is a victim behind it do. if i can help them go through what the men who killed my grandfather went through which , then i-life sentence am doing what i was placed here to do. >> for me, it is very personal. my dad went to prison when i was 10 years old. he served at 15 year sentence. this is a personal for me. the statistics show that the children of incarcerated tend to jail at alarming rate. i want to break that cycle. host: two of your employees, mr. green, there, who helped with themes, trying to prepare for life after gel. you think it is important that it is personal for them? guest: i think everybody has their story, greta, and why you do this work.

day.es come out every both of those ladies, and how they address the population, the things that they do, the passion they bring to the work. i think we all have our stories. perhaps we don't always talk about them. for me, my story is i have been in corrections for 31 years. looking through the door, at a friend, someone i grew up with, and having him ask a question of me -- i knew your mom, you knew my mom -- why i took my fact that you took your past, now, what can i do to change that. that was very impactful for me in 1986. why don't we have more programs to help us change our lives so my story looks a little more like yours. -- one,ation comes from

watching, and be involved in how we manage corrections over the years, and seized the opportunity to make the change now, and knowing what works. again, everybody brings a story. it is important what motivates you. host: outland, a democrat in brooklyn. caller: it seems to me that there are overlapping trends that can be connected to some recent news. we have a very dysfunctional congress where people do not seem to represent the population for their fair share of power in the republican house. they cannot alight a leader that represents their voices. at the same time, there is a background of people convicted of crimes and an excessive number of people denied their vote because too many took a plea, instead of going to court, because they could not afford bail. we have an incentive by a government that can lower the

apparent unemployment rate by having fewer people looking for jobs, and all the people who are taken off the streets are no longer counted amongst those seeking work. ishave a trade policy that taking more and more work from .hese minorities manufacturing jobs have been reduced. we are creating the appearance that there is less unemployment then there is. oh denial, unemployment, free trade, congressional dysfunction, all of these things seem to overlap. the "new york times" cover this recently in july -- bipartisan pushed to builds to relax laws.

host: do you have a thought on giving judges more discussion? retion? guest: i do see this really strong bipartisan support in this area, this region, that we reside in, we have interest from democrats, republicans, people who want to see a change in how the system works, and the successes we are having. i see really strong support for outcomes, and not necessarily affiliations. i think that discussion provided to the judges is really an important piece of this change. , an: joe in south carolina independent with experience in the corrections system.

what is your question or comment? caller: first of all, i want to tell you how i appreciate your show, and you. can you hear me? host: we can. we're listening. thank you for that. caller: i was in a correctional facility back in 1980, right around there. i was in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong person. i ended up serving less time than he did. anyhow, i got my ged when i was in there. have out of their and had three or four different jobs. each time, i moved out, i made better pay, i met my wife, i had a family. so, the correctional facility change my life around, actually. i knew i did not want to go back there.

also, i went back into service , and i served over in iraq for two tours. my life around. they gave me a chance. i just wanted to tie it in. and i want to thank everybody for the opportunity i had. int: let's move on to john washington, a republican theory go ahead with your comment or question. to labor localg 440 in seattle -- i did belong to it for 30 years. even though progressive is not a nice word anymore, that is what our union was. back in 1982 -- before 1982, our population of our union was guys, and50% white

50% women in my and minorities. i did not work much for a couple of years. a lot of people dropped out of the union. about 1990, our union was taken over by the federal government, second line to the teamsters. our union was used to go reorganize labor constructors throughout the united states because we had such a fair way of giving everybody a job. host: can i ask you to get to your question or your point here for mr. green. theer: the main point is

union, at least 440, was never prejudiced against anybody who did time. if you are willing to be a hard worker, you could come in and work, and maybe even start as an apprentice. we had plenty of women, minorities, and if you did not mind working, we were good with it. ok.: can you talk about the union, is there a union role at montgomery county? unionizedare a workforce within my system. we have carpenters unions, and other unions, i believe the plumbers union, has worked with some of our workforce development efforts in helping education,training, and programming. i cannot tell you that there were jobs provided there, but they played a role in some of our workforce education. host: we are talking with robert

maryland -- void, boyd, maryland. we are live in the correctional facility. we will talk with others, besides mr. green, about what it is like an side, the changes they are making, the programs they have therefore inmates. preparing them for life after jail. we will continue throughout today's "washington journal" with this discussion. republicans, (202) 748-8000. democrats, (202) 748-8001. .ndependents, (202) 745-8002 a fourth line this morning for those with experience in a correctional system, (202) 748-8003. let's get more of your calls in this morning. before we do that, let's talk about where you are. for a mind our viewers. you are in one of the housing units, that is where the inmates sleep, do their work, and showered. talk about the cells.

guest: i am in one of the direct supervision housing units that we utilize. footells are 70 square cells, they are two person cells. depending on behavior, willingness to engage we single cell, as needed. you are out of yourself most of the day until 9:00 at night, which is the lock-in time for sleep. the next day, the program start all over again. , andu are in a unit perhaps behavior is an issue, there could be more in cell time . our goal is to get as many people as possible, based on how

they treat staff and each other, into these therapeutic housing units, where we can really begin to help them concentrate on the issues that they had in their life, and the issues that brought them to our doors. host: do you find that getting these inmates out of their cells helps with behavior? if they are in a cell for hours upon hours, in that small room, that contributes to bad behavior outside of the? guest: it does. i won't tend to say i'm an expert in that area. there is a whole body of study and solitary -- on solitary confinement. yeah, there are some people there are extremely violent. every daynt to paint this perfect picture. ks have some dangerous fold

that we deal with. we need that sell to maintain behavior. it for the time that you need it, when they are acting out. in our system, there is no such thing as solitary confinement, even if you are on a high lock-in status because of the hager, we are still there to deal with the issues. the case manager is present. the staff -- there is no benefit to us, and to the correctional system. a very few number for us. the benefit comes in therapeutic groups. that is what we really strive to do. host: mr. green, citing studies that have been done on solitary

confinement. here is a story about that. host: randy in michigan, a democrat, you are next. caller: thank you for taking my call. i would just like to say a couple of things. , we havest history been locking people up in rural areas. if you are educated, like me, i because i had smoked pot, and they did not want pot smokers there. if a local cop can take your house and sell it, that is profit for them.

to look and see the statistics in the united states, and how may people we , versus howd killed many people are jailed the casa pot. this is something i'm writing a book about right now. this is something i want c-span 2 adjust, why are we shooting people for something they don't die from deco host: were you able to follow that. guest: that is not my industry. follow the police. we have seen some equalization of marijuana in this county, the state, and across the country. i think that has to bear out. we have to follow the stats. we have reduced some of the incarceration on possession of small counties in montgomery county. all of those things have to be done based on a risk analysis,

not just based on the crime, what is the risk to the community. how can we, at the same time, provide some treatment to individuals. the caller's exterior is not my experience. host: sherry in texas. good morning to you. caller: i'm excited this is going on. educate everybody, if they have not heard of it already, the prison program inrial cleveland, texas. my son was incarcerated for drug use and sale. he graduated from a program in 2007. bringhey do is they people to one unit, interview this,if they want to do and it is grueling. they will go on to a prep program supported by baylor

university. they learn to be a man. 95% of the prisoners do not go back during a certain amount of time. there are numerous men who have startedut, and their own business. we support it, financially. there are business people who come in looking for these graduates because it is life-changing. my professor is a perfect -- my husband is a professor at sfa and volunteers. it is an amazing program. in thet they are doing cleveland unit. they started another unit in estes, texas. it is life-changing, not only for the prisoners, but anyone that gets involved. host: mr. greene? guest: it sounds like a wonderful program, a lot are

popping up around the country. i'm not familiar with it, but i assure you, i'm a bit of a junkie for articles of successes in my industry, and i will look the. -- look that up. host: i want to build up another issue and that is mental illness . you had a front-page story recently in "the washington post," "waiting in jail for help and dying." how are you dealing with this issue? guest: the mental health crisis -- i don't use that word at all lately. more is about 14% individuals in jails with a mental illness than there are in state hospitals and places where they perhaps need to be.

it is a crisis in maryland. it is a crisis in many places. we are dealing with a population in a very collaborative manner. we do not create new systems inside our jail. we have a health and human services department that helps us. you will be hearing from one of our staff that works directly with that population. i think we are doing better than most, but not as well as we would like. i talked about a 23% reduction in our population. that percentage that is left, that number that is left, is an extremely acute population. we are seeing persistent mental illness on a daily basis coming into our central processing unit. looking back over some data, when it was preparing for today, 60 percent of our population is homeless and mentally ill. how we are working to provide

housing, as well as treatment, it is a real struggle. hundred 29 people today are taking medications. again, i'm proud of what we are doing. criminal justice coordinating committee, as well , we are looking at our mental health processes in the county, what we can do to be more nimble, and serve this population. as a warden, there are things that rise to the top of your list they keep you up at night. it is the mental health thatation in our system really does that for me. it is not unusual to have someone who is in a serious crisis. we want to protect them from harm, from harming themselves. it's not unusual to have

multiple individuals on a one-on-one status. we have had to do two on one's at times. we are working through what i think is a really tough situation. nationally, we need to look at serious justice reinvestment in the system. perhaps it is not reinvestment, it is investment and what we can do to help this population. we can talk for a really long period of time about what happened with the institutionalization in the 1960's. it brought a lot of people to the doors of the american jails, and they are still here because

the community functions did not stand up. i think we need to caution ourselves a bit. we start talking about mental health and the criminal justice system. there are a number of mentally it is at commit crime -- very low number, but what we are looking at are the number of cases circulating through our system. we look at the number of days spent in jail, escalation. we are trying to not only china from the criminal justice standpoint, and look at it from a crime standpoint, but look at it throughout the continuum of care, and how we can better assert ourselves into each one of those events to help , and keep them stable. we are getting our arms around it, and have for some time. we are looking at what is the

next iteration of things like deflection. we talked often about diversion. divergent is when someone comes in our system, and we can direct them from prosecution, get rid of the charge. deflection is not having the charge to begin with. across the country, we have officers to operate within our police community. our police officers in a verymery county -- large portion of them have that training. they do great work in the area of deflection. the number of calls they answer for service is continuing to escalate for them. things, looking at the system holistic leave. not just from the jail side or

courtside, but community side. we are bringing all of these forces to bear. we will be making, hopefully, some changes in how we manage that population. host: of course, all of that effort takes money. you have an operating budget of 71 million for 2016. as we showed our viewers earlier, 91% of that going to personnel. is federal that dollars and local dollars? guest: the majority of that is local dollars. we get some federal dollars in .erms of grants on the hhs side all of our staff that are employed, those are local dollars. it is an investment in people. we need people to manage corrections. you need social workers. you need individuals who are really helping to address the needs of the individuals.

there is no equating how much money you throw at the problems to how well you fix it. it is how well you distribute those dollars, those people, and really following the science, the research, and the need, and collaboratively bring it together. host: we will talk about how those dollars are just a rear in the montgomery county correctional facility, but we want to thank you for your time this morning and talking to our viewers. we will continue but the conversation. thank you, sir. guest: thank you very much for having me. thank you for taking a look inside our systems. host: we will continue to do so after this short break. about what inmates go through, and we will continue on with a look at the services for inmates to treat drug,

alcohol, and mental health issues. first, during one of our recent visits, c-span's jennifer roth sat down and talked about inmates getting a job after release. [video clip] work source a jobseeking program for inmates housed here. we were one of the first in the country to be housed in the jail, but not the only one. the earlier we can start preparing someone, the more likely they are to get employment. we begin eight months before the release. >> what we do is go to the units and recruit them. you can come -- you can sign up to come to our programs. what we do is go to the unit and to behe inmate, are soon

customers, what they can do. onis eight months or less their sentence. it cannot be pretrial. they cannot have a detainer and another jurisdiction. those are the individuals eligible for our program. weekrogram itself is a 16 curriculum. jobe are six weeks of readiness, six weeks of job search, and four weeks of personal development. our goal here is to get them job ready and life ready. have as much legal work experience. we don't have to explain that we have a criminal record. sometimes their educational level is not as high as your traditional job seeker. a lot of it is confidence. we prepare them to go and sell themselves and assured to the

employer that i can do the job. >> it is good for them to have individuals come from the community and actually work with them. individuals who they can see are willing to help them. it is important for the seeunity to come in and what we are working with. sometimes this can be a scary environment. people will automatically be afraid to deal with ex offenders. they can come in and see, this is a person that is here, they made a mistake, but now they are working to it opportunities to be of federal taxpaying citizen. that is the benefit of individuals coming from outside. host: we are back inside montgomery county correctional facility, about 30 miles here from the nation's staff oftalking with

the facility about what they do at the jail there. it is a capacity of a little over 1000. in one of the housing units, we chum.oined by kendra jo talk about reentry services. when you say that word, what does that mean, and what do you do? what are you offering? guest: reentry services is a really broad way to say any of thefor individual needs that members of our population have. reentry, by definition, is the process for someone returning back from confinement to the community. it is often thought of when people are returning from a peri incarceration. really, it can mean any time they were included in the custody of police, courts, rial programs.

there is a broad way of looking at reentry. essentially it is assisting people with what they need for returning. host: what are some of those needs? guest: commonly, reentry means -- certainly, housing is a problematic and challenging the to address.- need we also look at education and employment. research has shown, over the years, it is not actually the tangibles that make the biggest difference in reducing recidivism, it is looking at thinking patterns and focusing targeted intervention in the way the person perceives the world, makes value judgments, and choices. host: give us an example of how a program might work. let's talk about a mental health program or substance abuse program. facility, youthe

heard director green talk about a number of our therapeutic communities. these units are designed to look focus on certain members of the population that have needs. the program units are focusing in on different skills and developing insight. the program is self would be withed based, combined classes, and also release preparation. i reentry services unit does not function as a standalone unit. we are throughout the facility. as director green talked about, we tried to reach as many individuals as possible because the majority will be returning back. our approach is different than a structured program. host: we are inside the montgomery county correctional

facility. you're hearing the doors open and shut. we are live inside one of the housing units there where you would typically see the inmates out of their cells, doing these isgrams that kendra jochum talking about, whether it is preparation for a job when they leave or getting help with substance abuse. there are over 600 inmates currently at montgomery county correctional facility. they can house over 1000. we are taking your questions and thoughts about what these inmates need, and what it means for the community. do you work with the community outside the jail? guest: absolutely. with reentry services, you cannot do as a standalone effort within the walls of the facility. reentry is about returning back to the community, making those connections for the individual, and with the individual, prior

to the release. we have a number of partners that we work with. montgomery county health and human services is a primary partner. we have a couple of connections with them. montgomery community college is another partner. and, the work source job center is a core partner as well. host: we were showing our viewers a moment ago about some of the reentry services that inmates might need. one of them is food stamps. why is that important? stamps is reflective of a basic need. we all need to eat. onwhen a person is release, needsave competing further time and priorities. they have one less trip to make, one must appointment to make. through health and human services, we have a benefit specialist to work here full

time to meet with individuals who we are working with, and she will assess their eligibility for welfare services including food stamps and medicare coverage. food stamps is important to help with the basic need to eat when they are out. is a challenge for a lot of individuals who have had the impact of incarceration, both for the families on the outside, who are missing income because their loved one is on the inside in the facility, and is also a challenge for when they come out because they do not necessarily have the income coming in immediately with the challenge of employment. if they are eligible, we want to make sure they are connected prior to release. did: "wall street journal" an article about this, "extra defenders to get benefits." were1986 overhaul, they

approved for getting benefits. tender yocum, talk about the benefit of this type of program, but all of the reentry services that you provide. how do you track success of them? tracked verys is simply on who comes back and who does not come back. difficult,is a very complex formula to think about. we can think about immediate success following someone's release. if they can get past the first 4-6 months, they have passed the initial think or swim -- sink or swim test. long-term, if they can succeed on the 2-3 year mark without coming back into the system, that is the mainstay of reducing

recidivism. nationally, two thirds of individuals come back through one system through supervisi or new offenses. totried to stay connected them after release through social media, e-mail correspondence, and phone, as much of their willing and interested in communicating with us. supervision,th they are the ones who take the support strategy and supervision role as they enter the community. have a better sense of how they are succeeding in the community, or not. host: what you hear from former inmates when they are outside, when they get back out? what are they telling you are the greatest challenges for them? what is the most difficult part of it? employment.r,

the challenges they face in applying for jobs, having the stigma of incarceration associated with them, those are frequent things that we hear about. the success stories really come folks were prepared for that challenging came up with strategies and skill building to enhance their possibilities when they are in the community. other challenges they face, certainly housing comes into play. family dynamics is another underlying factor that we tend to overlook when we look at education and employment. family support is essential in someone's success. often that can be triggering their difficulties or contributing to their behavior and the first place, or just a matter of the support team in place for them when they come home, or the lack thereof. host: leading up to today's program, jennifer roth went to montgomery county correctional

facility and sat down with a former inmate, who talks about his reentry into the community just last month. [video clip] >> just to know the people that i know, it was kind of a reaction, he is coming out, but he will fail. everyone was like, don't do this, don't do that, making me .eel like you are going to fail at the end of the day, the reaction was not so bad. for one, the people helping me just like my employer, helping me out getting back in ing itmmunity, take it easy. dealing with the people where i'm living, they, little by little, we started going out. even though i wasn't locked up years and years, things change a little faster than they did before. little by little, they took their time, and got me back into

the community, going to the store, simple things. going to eat together, so i feel comfortable. host: what do you hear therefrom from carlos?re technology changes so quickly, cell phones, paying for things, etc., how do you prepare for that? guest: it is a particular challenge, the longer that someone has been incarcerated and away from the community. for three years, i worked at the local work-release center, and we would have individuals come , and they needed to know how to use the bus, how to use the cash register when they went to go make a purchase. the notion of smartphones these days, it comes second nature to all of us. these are underlying challenges that individuals may not even realize for themselves that they will need to navigate through. in conversations with their family and friends, if they can

stay connected to the challenges on the outside. it is an isolating experience to be incarcerated and then dropped back into the community that you left, but does not necessarily look or feel the same way, whether in family and friend circles, or the actual physical spaces that you go back to. host: let's take some calls. we will go to reginald in houston, texas. you have exceeded in the corrections system. go ahead. caller: yes. you will see that i am an excavation of -- ex- officer.nal they are handled as commodities here in texas. we lead the nation in prison incarceration and recidivism. i think this program is a very positive program. i was you would go to the state level. obama has changed the federal

law. imi am my brother's keeper. we need to change this on the state level. i applaud what they're doing areuse the inmates here treated as commodities by the corrections corporation of america. they will not like the positives of this reentry. that will take away from the investments on the stock market because they are treating these people like commodities. i believe that if you continue what you are doing here, america will be better off with this prison reentry you are trying to do. i applaud you. host: tender igo come what kind of help do you get -- kendra yocum, what kind of help do you get in your community? guest: on the state level, as the caller was mentioning, there is a distinct difference because of the population that our system works with, versus the local jail and pre-trial

that we have. a recent effort that was popular ban the box." they are advocating, in annapolis, to pass this and other elements around , and ways that job seekers can have an even approach, as compared to other applicants, who may not have that criminal history. i think it is important to keep the conversation going and engage the legislative effort so they are aware of the challenges being faced and the longer-term repercussions. what we talk about justice reinvestment, that is exactly where it comes back into it in terms of supporting the population that is going back into the community so they don't end up being a burden financially on different systems that may be in place.

host: paul in maryland, go ahead. caller: i would just like to say, i have been in the correctional system. see articleshen i like congress passing laws, taking away benefits from people trying to be injured, you have to think to yourself, the people who decide the laws, who wrote the laws, they are not affected by this. they have to understand -- are affected in a way of where are these people going to get food from? they will go back to do whatever they did to begin with, whether it is sell drugs, steel, with things like that. you can't say, we want to help people, and we want these people who are in jail to come out of jail, and do the right thing. they can't vote.

they have no voice. host: we will take your point. your thoughts? guest: i think this whole notion of redemption, and the difference between a convict and returning citizen is at the heart of this discussion. when someone views themselves as a convict -- if society views someone as a convict, that isolates their role and ability to participate effectively in our society. identified yourself, or someone else, as returning citizen is intended to remove that label and fully embrace them as a person first, who has a criminal history, rather than someone who is a criminal history, and that is all they can potentially be. acknowledging that these are want toals, who we come back, and one to embrace to improve and rebuild their lives is at the heart of everything. that is the focus of our work.

it is not just a matter of providing what we think sounds nice, and what might be meaningful to us. it is a matter of what is really going to helpryan, an independe. alex andove on to maryland, an independent caller. good morning. caller: good morning. i want to make a point, and i have see a lot of coverage recently in the news about black lives matter, an issue we are discussing this morning. i think the effort should be made to address some of the issues before the facts, and not after people have been in prison, and release. i do give you give people opportunity, when they are much younger -- free community college, you know, kind of like that, we could prevent a lot of these things. when people have things to do, when you give them opportunities, they tend to get in less trouble. host: your thoughts?

guest: one of the areas we focus on in the facility is our youthful offenders. we identify them as anyone 21 and under. we target content to this generation with the intent, as the caller mentioned, to focus in on angst before they become enterthings before they becom onto the path of the criminal justice system. incarceration is the endgame. we need to focus on the beginning. that is a community and social effort, not just a matter of the family, or the finances, or education. it is a collaborative partnership to find solutions that we can all support. host: here is a tweet from one

of our viewers -- may be returning them to the community from which they came is part of the problem, perhaps a new environment would be better. guest: i think it works with ways. it makes a big difference for people to go back to something that is familiar and so they know the different resources that are available to them. however, if that is where the cho and began, i ae agree that it makes sense to have a fresh start in other places. host: bob is next in virginia, an independent. caller: good morning. i would like to just ask, instead of it being a community and societal problem, perhaps there is an alternate way to look at it. is there room for having these people come to terms with the choices they make, and also come to terms with the consequences of their actions?

host: go ahead. isst: the thing that comes the individual is responsible for the decisions they make. in comments around it being a --ial problem, it is but is it is the individual first. the individual is self determining. we want to empower that person, educate them, build skills, develop insight into the nature of their behavior. whom he about victims and their experiences and rights they are just as much a part of the criminal justice system as the person accountable for the offense. that is a complex puzzle piece that comes together. programs need to develop that insight. my comments at the beginning, traits,ial personality

that is the underlying premise we need to enact change on so that they can make informed and more productive choices. host: we learned that the operating budget for 2015 for the montgomery county jail, a .ittle over $70 million how much money is dedicated for what you do? reentry services? a unique scenario with montgomery county that we don't provide therapeutic services or reentry services on a contract basis. everything is held as part of our budget. there's not a firm number to place all the programs we combine because we are partnered with private providers as well as county providers. when we think about the figures it is staff teams of upwards of 30 or 40 individuals that put together to provide reentry services so their salaries get

combined. the number of work hours combined. --don't have host: sorry we lost our connection with try to get that back. she is the director of the reentrynt -- the services manager for the montgomery county department of rehabilitation. our conversation with the folks going insideity, the correction system this morning to give you an idea of what happens inside these jails. the inmates that are in there, one of the and therefore and all the challenges in issues the staff has to deal with. one of them is mental health. also, preparing these inmates for life after jail. kendra jochum, she is vital to that, manager of reentry

services. it ranges from workforce programs to mental health as well as substance abuse. we got cut off but if you just want to finish your thought for us. guest: we were talking about the .udget for reentry services it is in line with all our program offerings. does not a specific segment dedicated to reentry services because it is a system approach. host: for your resources, i'm curious about the heroin epidemic many communities are seeing in the united states. one headline from "the washington times," that heroin deaths topped highway fatalities in 2014. for you andat mean what you are trying to do in montgomery county? guest: substance abuse as a whole is a very challenging me to a dress for individuals

the criminal justice system and otherwise. my colleague will be coming on shortly to talk about those in more detail. we talk about the heroin epidemic it's unfortunate circumstances impacting individuals. we have a new program we are venturing into and that is something she will more on but it is a grant funded program to the governor's office of crime control and prevention modeled after several programs in the state. we want to provide education as well as medication support for individuals as they are executing release and returning to the communities to help with physical components to supplement and support some of the other programmatic work they have done to address relapse prevention needs. host: we will go to frank in gainesville, virginia. caller: thank you for c-span. i did four years and a virginia

penitentiary. in, i saw was people coming getting incarcerated. so much unnecessary stuff in my life. i was distracted big-time from what was good and law-abiding and what i wanted to do with my life. all the distractions were taken away i could not make decisions for myself. i began programming. the best thing that helped me when i got out was to not have unnecessary things in my life to keep my life simple. i would suggest the people that run the prison systems, to get rid of entertainment for the convicts. get rid of cake and ice cream and all the unnecessary stuff

that they have. keep it simple so they can focus on these programs. they can focus on themselves, the victims. the best thing i did when i got out was to keep my life simple. i've been out for 31 years. i have a beautiful wife. i'm successful. i've four kids. i don't have cable. i listened c-span. we go hiking and camping. the guys that i have seen that have not gone back to prison, they have done similar things. i would encourage the prison system to keep it clean and -- keep it clean and get rid of necessary -- unnecessary stuff. host: what do you think? guest: i think each individual has their own pathway into the

criminal justice system and their own pathway out. i'm happy to hear the caller found what worked for him and i think that rings true for other individuals. it's going to be a matter of what works for that person. what their priorities are. i do agree what he was commenting on in terms of finding out what is going to fill his time and focus when he's in the community. one of the factors we look at is recreation. we are guiding these folks to take out things that are problematic. who are they going to be spending their time with and what they going to be doing? leisure activities. hiking, that is individual and important as well. supporting positive behavior change goes along with that. commenting on taking away different potentially feel good things within a facility.