>> that is exactly what those governments do not want. next democratization is a process, not an event. we may have to be patient. ande may have to be patient use all of our persuasion and resources to try to advance that. >> it is a long-term process. >> good afternoon. i'm the kurdistan regional government representative to the united states. i'd like to thank you for taking on this task and thank you as a the for coming to conclusion that we are on a steady march toward independence. there will be an independent kurdistan. i would love to invite all of you to come to our celebration. my question really is, i would love for you to flesh out more why it's in the united states

interest that there should be an independent kurdistan. , we have suffered repeated genocide by being part of iraq. we are still under threat of further genocide. oil industryur hijacked by previous regimes. the current government and the previous one have held our economy hostage. there are many benefits to the kurds, for us to become independent, as well as challenges, but what are the benefits to the united states? america, congress, the state department, friends of the united states may be need to hear more about why it is to their benefit to have a strategic partnership with an independent kurdistan. i'll address that briefly and then give the microphone to nancy. there's already good security

theeration between multinational coalition. we believe security cooperation can be deepened and become more -kurdistanwhen iraqi is an independent state. nancy talked about the establishment of a u.s. base in kurdistan. establishing- that base. the primary goal of the u.s. in the region's counterterrorism. the only group that has shown any capability to fighting isis are the kurds. and we need to cooperate with them more fully in their present form. kurdistan becomes more viable, to find ways of strengthening cooperation. >> i would add to that, iraq

of democracys sea in the region. for the united states to have a pocket of stability in the region will be serving our interest. we are going to be there for a long time. these struggles are not going away people have a great friend in turkey, a nato ally, more countries that are close allies and stable in the region is in our u.s. interests. i think explaining to the american public very clearly why that is is a very good suggestion which will take on -- we'll take on and perhaps make it a little bit clear. >> nancy says we have a great friend and ally in turkey. it has been a great friend and a great ally. we hope that in the future it is preferred status can be restored. occur, turkey's

human rights record needs to dramatically improve. >> we are running out of time. very quickly, there are two more questions perhaps we can take both questions and then wrap it up there. >> i just wanted to remind you only once butay twice. they did not defend us even after 19 years of collecting taxes from people there. one important factors you should consider an independent kurdistan, what does it include and how are they going to defend that if they are going to run away from it? what do you consider the position of the pkk now being president. allowing the kurds to have any say in defending our liberty in that city. >> i'm a member of the task

force. i wish to make one comment that is relative to questions that have been posed. the key part of the one iraq policy or fantasy, as you prefer to call it, that is being sustained by washington is that washington does not recognize kurdistan's constitutional rights to export its own oil. and those constitutional rights are to me mind unambiguous. i have to say that because i was one of kurdistan's legal advisers during the making of iraq's constitution. i think washington knows the truth, because washington's lawyers were very unhappy with the constitution of iraq. so a very simple measure that could be adopted by american policymakers is to be neutral on the internal constitutional dispute between baghdad and kurdistan, which would allow kurdistan to export its own oil, which would be a critical part of consolidating.

america can have it either way. kurdistan consolidating its rights under iraq's constitutional arrangement or consolidating its parts among independents. the question of constitutional rights to export u.s.il, you call for the to have neutrality. i would go a step further. legal and other measures that the u.s. took to actively obstruct the export of kurdish oil were uncalled for. he revenueds had t from those oil sales, they would have been better equipped in places to address the isis invasion and attack. the earlier questioner is quite right. they did not perform admirably at first. they subsequently have made greater efforts and it had more

positive outcomes in creating security areas and protections for them. i think there is a recognition on the krg's part that they underperform and they need to do more to protect ethnic and religious minorities across iraq kurdistan, not only by providing security but also legal guarantees for their self-expression. withwould just close thanking brendan for that comment and his wisdom and expertise. there is no one who knows the legal issues better. some of them are very complex. performance of the forces and the presence of these issues of are easy and none of them are going to go away tomorrow. the kurds are fighting isis now. they are the pointy end of the

spear. they need more support. i think eventually the international community will come around to giving them that support. i would like to see it happen sooner rather than later. that does not mean there are not questions with the impact of the pkk, how turkey would address that nervousness and iran and others, but our most urgent challenge right now is defeating isis and retaking the territorial integrity of iraq and syria. so long as that's an equation, none of these other issues can move forward and things will get worse and hundreds of thousands of people are going to die. so, i think we need to look at the kurds as an integral and essential part of that battle and treat them as an ally accordingly. all these other issues, the timetable for independence, what happens to the sunnis, how do you resolve the challenges of all ofnd his russians, those get easier once you can

address the issue of isis. chaos, is what we are urging and the reason we are doing this report is to have a wake-up call for the international community that a unified iraq does not exist, and the kurds are not going to be working with baghdad anymore. that opens up a whole other box of questions and policy decisions that we are encourages ing you in this room to look at more urgently and has been done for day. i want to thank everyone for coming and thank david for this report. >> can i also say word of thanks? i have never seen a task force so ably led as our task force by ambassador soderbergh. when you get 20 people together, there will be a democracy of different views. but nancy was always able to keep us focused and achieve some conciliation amongst our own group. and the outcome on the pages of

our task force report reflects her stewardship. >> thank you very much. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> the house republicans leaders meet today to discuss the legislative agenda and leadership elections, including the race for speaker of the house. that is live at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span 3. next, the hill editor in chief bob cusack moderates a focus group with new hampshire voters. the event part of the no labels

conference held in manchester, new hampshire. it is 35 minutes. ♪ bob: thanks for coming. ibob: am bob cusack, editor in chief of the hill. we are proud sponsor of this event. i think this is going to be a very interesting discussion because the panelists are askin- we get to talk to newsmakers. it is great to get out of washington, d.c., and talk to people who are deciding the next

president of the united states. what we are seeing today is extraordinary. we do not know how it is going to end, but what we are going to try to do today is get reaction from what we have heard. and what these voters who span the political special from left to center to write, what they're looking for. we have undeclared voters here. so, it is going to be interesting to see what they think of both the candidates and how washington can be fixed. so, my first question is is compromise -- and we are also going to be taking your input and talking about that in the audience -- and i want one volunteer to say, does anyone think that compromise is a bad word? do you think copper mice is a good word and why? anyone -- that compromise is a good word and why? anyone. the mic. please identify yourself and go with it. >> i live in hempstead, new

hampshire. i am from a family that had ancestors that fought the british in boston, which i'm very proud of. but it does not make any difference why we came here. we all came for the same reason, for freedom and liberty. and one thing that i think was overlooked this morning, not intentionally, is a very important piece of legislation that the house of representatives got right. if i might take a moment? >> sure. >> i think you have all heard of a very important piece of legislation called the americans create. -- creed. that was passed on the house of representatives on april 13, 1918. here we are 100 years later and talking about unresolved issues that have affected this country for decades. if you know the americans creed, please read it.

i believe in the united states of america. as a, government of the people by the people, for the people t powers are derived from the consent of the governed. a democracy in a republic, a sovereign nation of many sovereign states, a perfect union. wouldn't that be nice? one and in severable. established upon principles of freedom, equality, justice, and humanity for which american patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes. i therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it, to support its constitution, to obey its laws, to respect its flag, and to defend it against all enemies. believe,re today, i

because we have unintentional enemies within our own country who are seven times in -- sabotaging, perhaps unintentionally, what our founders intended to do when they drafted our constitution and bill of rights. i applaud everyone in this room who has taken columbus day to make it a day for no labels. thank you. [applause] from a lot of the 2016 candidates today. if you look at a macro in politics, we had the democratic wave of 2006 and 2008. we have republican ways in 2010 and 2014. what it has led to his gridlock, certainly the last congress, this congress has gotten some stuff done but not sweeping legislation. so, and that is a big theme of the 2016 campaign. so, of the 2016 candidates,

somebody, what did you think, did anyone resonate with you? did they make up for that you are like, that is pretty smart? because breaking up this gridlock has been something that george w. bush talks about, barack obama has talked about. they both vowed to change washington. both admitted they did not for a variety of reasons. is there any candidate, for any of the panels, that is a really good point? >> i live in manchester. i think one of the things that struck me today was listening to bernie sanders and donald trump. in a number of different areas they were mirroring each other. my god, you put those two guys in the room and they might be it. to solve of course, they both have a lot to say, so i'm not sure -- i was kind of thinking that. bob: that is interesting.

do you lean right? >> i lean center-right. bob: and what are you looking for for the candidates? what is something you want the candidates to say that maybe you have not heard yet? side, i hearr one them describing half the issue. when i hear the other side, i hear them describing the other half of the issue. and what troubles me the most is that when they're saying what they're saying, they sound like they are being introduced at the world wrestling federation. bob: in the politics of the gotten too ugly? >> very ugly. bob: one of the questions and we were back in the front room that was raised to me was are we going to talk about the media? as someone in the media, if you are going to dish it, you have to take it. i do want to throw that out. has the media participated in this deterioration of politics? all the way at the end.

then we can bring it down. >> i 'm mark rubenstein from amherst, new hampshire. and something happened today that i did not expect, and that was when the woman got up here and turned to the meeting and said, please don't turn this into a donald trump story. and the room just roared. so, sure. the media definitely play a part. anyone else want to weigh in on that one? >> that was my point as well. new boston,ylor for new hampshire. just to add to that, i feel that sometimes, like, i have never heard o'malley speak before today. and i think the media controls who we hear, what soundbites we hear on the news. and i was very impressed with him as a candidate. and i'd ask the media not to do

that. [applause] is, by aother question show of hands, who has made up their minds of who they are going to vote for in the new hampshire primary, either republican or democrat? anybody? wow. the candidates have a lot of work to do, then. rachel, how about you? what are you looking for? rachel: i have a few candidates who i'm interested in. haven't quite started supporting. one is carly fiorina. one is lindsey graham, who was here today. i really liked what christie had to say, governor christie. bookdn't been in my role before that. and john kasich, i am interested in hearing. things i think

that is a theme in most of them is that they're clear about looking at the issues and wanting to find a resolution to the issues. they want to fix things. and they're not talking about the issues that really can divide us. in the case of lindsey graham, you know, i think it was he who said sometimes it is hardest to fight against your own party. and i think that is true, but because he was talking about issues that really sounded more like some of the democratic candidates, but i really applaud that. i think we have a lot of people work acrosscan the aisle and who are looking for solutions. i don't think that quite a few of these people are willing to have gridlock. they really want to be there to help our country and move our country along. bob: mark stall from

from bedford, new hampshire. i'm looking for three things from a candidate. first, of course, is the ability to work across the aisle, work with the other side. i think we have heard a lot of positive things about that today. number two is the ability to analyze and understand the issues, look at the data, understand the science. i was very impressed by the last two speakers we heard -- governorayh and pataki, their understanding of the energy issues and the costs of the different energy technologies, which is really critical to solving the problem. i'mthen the third thing looking for that i have not heard it all today is the ability to manage the federal bureaucracy. the federal bureaucracy is

capable and does, to a great extent, run the country. and it needs to do it effectively. and we need managerial skill. we had so many agencies. i donthink i need to name names'. i think you know who they are. some of them do a very good job. they no longer do. the agency'st functioning again. >> i'm doug smith. i am a local barber in manchester. back on the bureaucracy, i think it has become a fourth section of government. it's way too powerful. i think that it's done well the way they want to do it. not the way we needed to be done. news for all the candidates who are in single

digits in new hampshire. 3% say theynly 30 fro have decided. 33% have not decided. 33% are unsure. so, politics can change very quickly. and certainly we've seen that happen in politics, but we are getting closer, certainly to the beginning of the new year. one of the things that has been a theme of this 2016 cycle is the insiders versus the outsiders. if you look at the rise of bernie sanders, who had been a house and senate member, but he is viewed as an outsider. you look a donald trump, dr. carson, carly fiorina, they are also called outsiders doing quite well. hillary clinton doing quite well as well. but the rise of bernie sanders has been a surprise. so, the question for someone who has not weighed in yet is is the answer an insider?

is the answer an outsider? fromm sarah browning manchester. outsider is just another label. i do not think we want to do that. i think we want to look at people and see what they bring to the table. and before we look at what any candidate stand on a particular substantive issue is, i think we ought to ask them what it is in their background and experience has allows them to, and taught them to collaborate and to listen to other points of view before they make a decision, and interact with people civilly? because if we don't start a civil discourse in our government, we are never going to solve any problems.

bob: someone down there had expressed an interest. go ahead. >> i'm judy from grafton, new hampshire. i think what i'm looking for more than anything is the candidate who will put country before party, before self. [applause] that partially explains the fascination with, the current fascination with the outsiders. certainly donald trump made a big point today of telling it like he wants to tell it, like it is. and i think that is what the outsiders have the ability to do right now. however, i am one of those people who has yet to make up their mind. bob: go ahead. >> i'm bob from manchester. i think it may be one of the outsiders that should be the only kind of person that is going to make any meaningful

change in the country. it seems the politicians really do not change anything much. so, i think should be the way. the other thing that is happened over the decades is that the central government has become way too bloated. i do not know how many people know this, but before 1912, the way the constitution was originally written, u.s. senators were elected by the legislatures in every state. and the ensured the states had a lot more power and slowly over the decades, that eroded. so, i wonder -- and i realize it is not easy to do -- but amendments have been added, taken away. is possibly one thing that would improve the situation. and at least there would be 100

senators that would not have all their special interests as their number one priority and would give more thought to doing what is right for the country. an interesting finding of the poll results. insider gets 27%. 20% outsider. 53% unsure. so, once again, there is a lot of opportunity for the candidates here to come here repeatedly and make their case. in politicshings that always works, or seems like it always works, is optimism. and whether that is present reagan's morning in america. whether that is barack obama's hope and change. there seems to be, to me, less optimism. and i think the candidates that take off and get to the general election are going to have this optimistic message about the future of the country, but at the same time i understand why

there is some negativity, because of you look at the polls, so what if people think that the country is going in the wrong direction. thinking thatt their children are going to have better lives than they do, which is very disconcerting. umm, so, someone who is not spoken yet. is that important? do we need that to lift up or do you want a more realistic look, hey, things are tough. they are going to be tough for a while. >> hi. from manchester, new hampshire. in answering part of your question, i just want to say that i'm undecided. i think when i do make my decision who is here today at the convention is going to, could be the tiebreaker. bob: why? >> because they saw the importance in our message enough to be here. it is not an afterthought. bob: are you a democrat? >> i am an independent.

bob: so the fact that showed up for this conference is a big deal? >> absolutely. [applause] thank you. think as far as the hopeful message, i think right now it is only coming from no labels. i think we have the most positive message right now. as far as the rest of the theyry looking, when decide, when we see the polls lean much heavier one direction or the other, i think that is going to happen when you see some of the republican strop out, because there -- dro pout, because they are just too many right now. that is complementing things -- that is coupled caning things. the sooner some drop out, maybe we can make more sense of this primary. shout]ernible bob: amen to that. >> i'm a jewish republican out

of manchester. we do exist. for me, i will say one of the issues i see as a republican is we have been anti. it is good to see that sometimes we need to be angry. there is a difference between eing ang yes things are bad. let's make it better. i think the republican party has to have that more positive message that this is what we're going to do. yes, you can be upset. things are bad. it is a difference between being angry and being confident. >> good point. this is a question for all the democrats here who have not decided. first i want to get to the democrats first. what is going -- where are you leaning towards? there are five candidates in he race.

hillary clinton and bernie sanders are doing very well in the polls. joe biden could get in. he will not be in the debate tomorrow night, however. for the democrats, what are you looking for? specific issues? are you looking for keystone? are you looking for fiscal issues? maybe a democrat who hasn't spoken. >> there is a guy coming up next, i think. is it jim webb? a fiscal conservative. he is a democrat. i'm going to stick around and hear what he has to say. is he here live? >> lye streaming. >> i'm looking forward to what he has to say.

>> i am a republican for me, the main one is balancing the udget. i think the goal is too mod nest getting it done. we're on the path now to where if interest rates get back to where they should be where ry s like my wife and retired and depending on revenue interest from our vems, the interest is just a tad above zero. so we need to get our interest rates back up for

our senior citizens. if interest rates get back up, and we continue where we are now, the debt back up to $20 trillion, we would be paying one trillion dollars a year in interest, and that is enough to choke us. that would be money that would have to be spent before anything else could be done. and i think, you know, all the either als kind of fall in or out of the budget. we certainly cannot do them if the debt continues to rise. it is going to be difficult to fix social security. it will be difficult to fix our educational system and our infrastructure. now, if we could get it around so we create millions of jobs, that would reduce the deficit tremendously, and if we became energy independent, that would also help us, so in my mind, it all go through the budget and the budget deficit. bob: and you think any

legislation that congress passes, it should be paid for? it should be offset? >> absolutely. the deficit is going down, but it is still a must of $1 illion a year. the debt is going to continue to grow -- it is still half of one billion dollars a year, and the debt is going to continue to grow. bob: here is a two apart question. for our independents. what issues do you want them to talk about a lot more? any of our independents? you can pass down the mic. >> i am sick and tired of them talking about how good they are and what they have done everywhere else.

we have been paying their salaries all of the time they have been there. i do not know of any other location, and i do not think anyone in the audience has this option, where you can work for two years and retire for about 85% to 100% of the rest of your life, and get a medical package hat most of us would be very pleased to have, and we are paying for it, and they are doing absolutely nothing except looking at each other and pointing fingers of blame. i say, shame on both houses. both sides are equally uilty. they try to blather away about what they are going to do, and they do more blathering and more blathering, and you know what has happened? they have made the american people angry enough that here we are in new hampshire, and we

are not going to take it anymore. larry: my name is larry. and the lady before me just made it easy. i agree with everything she said. i don't think the politicians would have to talk so much about everything if they really sat down and did something about it instead of just talking. immigration? how long have we heard that? gay marriage: and they talk about the issue of the day and put up the big issues, like what they spend. it is pretty simple to me. everything gets back to the budget, but i am old-fashioned. if you do not have the money for education, sooner or later, it is going to go away. if you don't have money for defense, it is going to go away. i am not say to cut back on everything. you cut back on the things that

you do not need and put more in what you do need. we need to stop letting officials get away with urder. >> from manchester. i would say -- i did not need to cut you off. fiscal wife, i could not agree more. if you cannot get your house in order, you cannot keep proposing program after program and appeal to every constituency. it is kind of sad to me. i think or the millennials, they have never seen an economy grow at 5% or 6% and adding jobs.

things were about buzz with lots of activity, and you felt good about getting up in the morning because you had a lot to look forward to. and when i see the folks that have been a part of this system, i say to myself, why would i vote for them? they have been a part of the system for my whole working life, so i looking for some folks that ave some business experience on the outside, and i think that is the reason they are doing so well. they are obviously not from the ystem, and they are looking at things from a problem-solving perspective. carly fiorina, i heard her speak. i thought she really nailed a lot in a very concise and articulate way.

she speaks very well, very clearly without notes, teleprompters, and she captured a lot of the issues, and i think she offers a lot of solutions, as well, particularly with bureaucracy and reducing that. she has done that in business. cut spending and grow the economy. >> i have got my own. i am lyman cousins. intellectual suburb of salisbury. but i am in a dilemma as a republican and longtime supporter of planned parenthood. which i think narrows my choices, especially those that are flagrantly telling lies. i plan to wait until later in the year, november and december, to really start looking at the candidates hard, because there is far too many of them to keep track of, and by november and december, some will run out. one thing i wanted to add, i think there are 1200 or 1400

people here today. it is a great turnout. as a new hampshire-ite, i am pleased to welcome all of you here, but as we say in new hampshire, 1200 is a blow in the snow, and we have to understand our influence, and each and every one of us has a responsibility to get out there to our friends and neighbors, to talk to them, to write letters to the editors, to do the op-ed editorials and all of that stuff that comes with this. because we are doing right. thank you. larry: hi. i am larry phillips. i am actually in the house of representatives. my thoughts are a little bit different than what has been

expressed in terms of what the candidates are saying. a lot of it is just rhetoric. especially with these big four issues. who can disagree? how much of this rhetoric -- and what i was looking for and what i want to hear more of is what exactly have you done about these things? lindsey graham talked about things that he has done, and governor o'malley said about things that he has actually accomplished, and i think one thing that really stuck with me is when governor christie said

he has a room where he brings in people to actually sit down and work it out, and i am looking at process, not just rhetoric, how are you going to do this, and how much does ersonality come into it, and how much can you really reach out and listen? that is what i am looking for. we chill: rachel from manchester, and i want to echo what the gentleman said -- rachel: rachel from manchester, and i want to echo what the gentleman said. i would like to relay a little story. we have a number of friends who are of all different strife, and as recently ago as two eeks ago, we were the only one coming, and we do not discuss politics as much anymore as we used to, because just like

everywhere else, things are getting more divisive, and you criticize what is going on on the other side, so i started explaining, and my husband and i started explaining, and we thought, wait a minute. people on the right, people on the left, and they said that really makes sense. logical, and we are really interested in hearing how they can be accomplished, but they are certainly a good starting point. in order to see, and that is what all of us have to do. we are taking the time to be ere. that is what we are being told. t is a matter of relationships, which is what a lot of the people who are up

here who are candidates are saying, and people from the government, building the relationships, and with the relationships, we can build ideas and just very calmly, peacefully, and some of them are going to stick, and that is our job. bob: are you satisfied with the field, only half say yes, and that could be good for joe biden. one of the things i want to talk about in my own informal polling on capitol hill, there is a huge difference with inside the beltway what people think about this question and people outside this beltway think about the question, and he question is what do you think of entitlements, and outside the beltway -- it is interesting. a lot of presidential candidates in dorset but only when they are running for congress or running for president. which is fascinating, so just by a show of hands, i am interested if you support congressional term limits. please raise your hand. and there are good arguments.

i saw a couple of hands go up. everybody in the audience, if you support some level of term limits, please raise your hand. a lot. there are arguments on both sides, but it is a very popular thing. i do not see it happening any time soon. i think the only way it would happen is if a presidential candidates actually pushed it and pushed it very hard, because it would be very unpopular with democrats and epublicans, because, basically, members of congress are elected, and a lot of them do work very well. you have heard some of them here today, and they are

hard-working, and they work across the aisle, and they get things done, but honestly, if you're in leadership weather on the democratic side or the republican side, there is an idea to not work with one another, and the outgoing speaker in an interview with 60 minutes would not commit to the word compromise. he said to talk about common ground, so you get to the semantics of what compromise is, so one of the last questions i want to ask is what does washington need to do in the short term? you're looking at sweeping legislation. realistically, it would be with the new president. and we saw it with president obama, whether you like it or not. climate change, it but what does the new president need to do on day one? whoever that president is, is it form relationships with the other side?

is it push his agenda that he as been talking about on the campaign trail? someone who has not spoken? >> all of the above. bob: all of the above. what is the most important? >> you cannot get anything done without relationships, and i think if all of our candidates and their staff in the people supported them spend as much time discussing what they would contribute across the aisle and who they are willing to work with, it was third -- serve us all well going forward. bob: going back to a topic, how do you digest -- there are new media outlooks than ever before. whether it is blogs or nonpartisan. how do you digest your news? he casually have far more choices than you had years ago when you had three networks. that, i think, is a positive thing.

and how do you get your news? >> by watching the charlie rose program. because he does in-depth interviews, and the news that comes on like the national news each evening and local news is more soundbites. it is not enough sauce. and also, prints media. bob: printed media. so you are still buying newspapers? >> not daily, but i still buy them. bob: the last time i bought a print newspaper, they looked at me like why would i do hat. >> people read it every day. i watch fox. i watch cnn. i watch all of them, and that is how i do it. s far as the media goes,

something i think i have never heard of, to that candidates from both sides of the aisle here. this barely got any publicity. there was a small article in the local paper. there were a couple of commercials on a.m. radio. i get my news from all of those, so you ask about the media and how it affects us, this did not get much publicity, so this turnout is fantastic. think about what it could have been with more media input. >> as the only millennial only on this panel, i will say facebook and twitter. >> i stopped watching elevision in november. i have a digital subscription to the new york times. read all of my regional

newspapers statewide, and i use the internet, even though i am not a millennial, and i find it very useful, particularly reading the major national newspapers, and politico.com. when they link to other stories. if you can take a couple hours a day to read, but it is a commitment. bob: well, i encourage you all to check out thehill.com. thank you. thank you. >> this sunday night on "q & a, amy shares her experiences from hillary clinton's campaign and compares what it is like now compared to 2008. >> to be honest, i was a lot younger. i was the traveling person. i wasn't in a senior role. i got to know the people that

traveled with her. she would come back in the plane and talk to us but at the same time i didn't have the same sort of sources that the campaign and high level people that i have now and whether that is a function of being at the times or a function of being more of a senior role. >> sunday night at 8:00 eastern nd pacific on c-span's "q & a. >> currently 10 states and the distributor colombia have laws to ing illegal immigrants get driver's licenses. the charitable trusts held a discussion on the state's decision-making process for issuing driver's licenses to illegal immigrants. this is 90 minute s.

>> good afternoon everyone and thank you all for coming. i am tom conroy, vice president for government performance here. thank you for sharing some time with us today. on behalf of our president and all of my colleagues, it is my privilege to welcome all of you here today. the few charitable trust is an independent nonpartisan nonpublic policy institution dedicated to serving the public. we are speaking today on the topic of immigration in that vein. our immigration in the states project is created to explore this intersection of federal, state, and local immigration policies and practices. i want to thank my panelists to share their experiences on how this intersection of federal state and local policies and practices actually affect their communities. with that i will turn over this

program. it is going to focus on driver's licenses in these communities. thank you. >> good afternoon and thank you. even while we don't see broad immigration reform be enacted in congress is in the horizon on the near term. states have been active in passing immigration laws. according to the national conference of state legislatures, 171 laws were passed in 2014, across such policy areas as wide ranging as law-enforcement, health, and education. immigration in the state project explored this dynamic. the non-advocacy pre-- it is not to take a position on any particular policy but to explore them across levels of

government to assess the impacts of the state policy choices. today focus is gaining attention in many statehouses across the country and was the subject of our most recent report. if those licenses have distinctive markings and text indicating they are not accepted for federal identification or for official urposes. tates call the licenses if a righty of names, such as privileged cars or driver authorization cars. this map highlights the places where unauthorized immigrants

may have obtained these licenses today. we have eight states and the istrict of columbia. while the yellow two states, washington and new mexico, issued the same driver's license to everyone regardless of immigration status, delaware and hawaii, the two states of here both passed laws this year in 2014. to deepen our understanding of the issues states confront, we brought together panelists from three states, each with different roles and experiences. you have for their complete bios and their programs, so allow me to judy's them they are sitting here now. -- enemy to introduce them as they are sitting here now. -- allow me to introduce them

to sitting here now. overseeing implementation of his new program is going to be one of the key tasks. terry joins us from nevada. he has an extensive public career standing. he comes to us today is the administrator of the management services and program division of the department of motor vehicles. he has worked in that capacity to implement the driver authorization card, which is been issued since january 2014. governor sandoval appointed terry to be the interim director of the dmv later this month. third we have erica, who joins s from the golden state of california, where she is chief of staff to -- who is also a key sponsor that

creates an alternative driver's license going into effect to just earlier this year. finally we have my colleague who let our research team. i would like to start by turning over to michelle, the opportunity to share with you some findings of our eport. michelle: good afternoon, thank you. we conducted research on all of the states currently issuing driver's license to unauthorized immigrants. we analyzed their laws and legislative reports. we spoke to other experts about their experiences implementing these laws. so that we could analyze the critical decision that they made and the diverse approaches

they took. while we also look at who made those decisions, in some states the legislator put very specific instructions and the legislative language. we did not look at the factors who let the state to make the decision to issue i should -- issue licenses to unauthorized immigrants. q -- q does not take a position. we do believe policymakers can learn from the experiences of another state. we identified four areas where states made critical policy decisions that allowed unauthorized immigrants to obtain driver's licenses. issuing procedures and outreach and education. it is interesting to see how these four areas interact with one another.

i'm going to highlight those examples as well. it really affects every other step of implementation. upfront planning is -- states who really need to estimate how many people will be eligible for their license, how many people will actually applied, and how often they need to renew their license. these estimates are the keys to determining startup costs, such as technological upgrades. and costs associated with the administration. these estimates determine the revenues that the issuing agency can expect to collect from new customers. these are generally expected to ay for themselves, but planning is the key to make sure that actually happens. obviously this environment, the states are making very

important decisions and need to plan ahead. these estimates are going to very widely. in vermont, where unauthorized immigrants make up less than one half of the state's, they estimated 1500 would apply. these very different estimates affect the choices they made. they opened five new facilities to accommodate the subpopulation -- accommodate this population. we will see these estimates turned out to be low. states determined the requirements to improve residency. some states have applicants sign an affidavit saying they are ineligible for a social security number.

in delaware we understand they will require fingerprints and background checks. the decision turned out to be key to implementation. unauthorized immigrants don't have the same instances legal immigrants have. determining what documents unauthorized immigrants actually have and how reliable these documents are. the number of applicants and licenses issued by relief directly to the people who can meet the requirements and produce the right documents. a state estimate needs to take

into account the people that will actually be able to meet the eligibility equirements. ext we have issuance procedures. states make decisions about how and where and unauthorized immigrant can apply for, obtain, and renew their drive us licenses. some states hired more staff and opened more offices. some create appointment systems to regulate the flow of customers in a timely manner. these decisions are directly

related to the amount of resources that a state has for these purposes. the estimates for needed resources needs to take things into account like staffing and facilities. they often need to think about this when planning their systems. how many facilities and staff they will have available to serve this population? how many appointments they can actually accommodate. and is this enough to meet the demand? the number of apartment available mean states determine -- of course in the end this affects the amount of revenues. we have outreach and education. states need to understand no program can be successful unless the target group knows how to access it. we did learn states used various method -- various methods to replace these aws. the department of the -- the dmv --

in illinois they used mobile units to educate the community and make initial consultation on people's documentation. the dmv makes information available through public libraries. one ton albee we found is they worked really closely with foreign consulates and with trusted community organizations to educate them about where and how to apply and what documents they need to show up to the dmv with. they us is stressed the importance of reaching out to mmigrant communities to warn them about the potential of consumer fraud. we heard stories that unscrupulous individuals may try to charge these applicants for things that should be free, such as booking an appointment. you can see how outreach and

education is related to the other areas of decision-making. an estimate of potential applicants won't be correct if the audience doesn't know about the program or is uncomfortable coming forward actually apply for a license. public outreach can also make sure that people know about the licenses and actually apply. it is critical to know that the applicants are ready -- and come to the dmv with all the proper documentation. they can pass those the first time i don't have to come back multiple times. we recently contacted all the states that began issuing days -- issuing these licenses. we have data on how these

icenses will be issued as of july 23, 2015. 800,000 alternative driver's icenses had been issued by these the places. it deftly correlated with the size of the unauthorized population. we want to know what are the factors that interlude the number of applicants and alternative licenses issued. we have already identified a couple of those. the appointment availability, applicant's ability to meet the eligibility requirements and education being effective. it affects how long it takes for one applicant to go through the process of getting a drivers license.

there are other anticipated events that could affect other -- here vermont is a real outlier. this state had estimated 1500 people would be eligible for a drivers license. they had issued nearly 50,000 lternative licenses. we spoke to the director of the vermont dmv. the vermont drivers privilege card was available to anyone who is an undocumented immigrant. a number of u.s. citizens and illegal immigrants have decided to receive this alternative license, even though they are eligible for the standard compliant license.

others didn't have the documentation they needed. they were able to meet the requirements for the christmas card. we heard fraud may have been an issue. a dmv administrator noted there were some evidence of advertisement in some out-of-state newspapers to get a vermont driver privilege party. a number of alternative licenses have most likely -- most likely gone to state residents. as a result the number of licenses has exceeded the xpectations. finally we have looked at the existing literature on the impact of these drivers license laws on public safety and the economy. it is available now on our website. there are several challenges when try to ascertain the impact of an authorized

impact. perhaps most importantly, eight of the 11 jurisdictions only began issuing in 2013 or later. not enough time had passed together meaningful data. we look at the literature between licensing unauthorized immigrants and insurance cover rates, accident rates, and access to employment, which is related to immigration tax ontributions and spending. while there is some literature about unlicensed drivers being available, there is very little specific information about an unauthorized immigrant and access. this points to a need for more research.

more complete information about the fact that allows unauthorized immigrant to get driver's licenses and perform a more complete cost-benefit analysis of their proposed legislation, and it would allow state policy makers make more informed decisions. we hope information offers the to our state policymakers who are currently making decisions about issuing licenses and how to in -- and how to design and mplement those laws. now i'm looking forward to our conversation with other panelists so they can turn this framework into a reality. thank you. [applause] >> thank you very much, michelle. i have panelists coming up on stage. we are going to take this conversation to the practical realities. e are not going to have each

panelist do a presentation of their particular state model. i'm going to facilitate a discussion and ask a couple of questions i think is going to tease out some approaches. we are quite a star with a topic we have not covered yet. using your perks coming from the legislative branch, could you take us inside the legislative debate, highlighting areas where there may have been disagreement in your build moving forward -- in your bill moving forward. erika: thank you so much for the opportunity to be here and particularly to share some perspective from california. to your question, i kept looking at the fact sheet.

the conversation of drivers licenses has been long. the legislator approved the back in 2003. it was not only in effect it was available for three months. 4s the conversation and political debate has been very long. t was never a question about who is going to drive. we knew there were undocumented individuals driving in our state. he question is how do we integrate and what is the responsibility to ensure we are actually moving forward with the value of many of our

representatives have wrong on -- the values many of our representatives have run on. if they had large populations they wanted to provide relief for that population. one of the debates was marking many legislators, who at the time of the debate, he was a chairman of the latino caucus, representing over 25 members of the legislature in each house. clearly the latino caucus wanted to provide relief for the population with very little penalty. the individual marking was huge. for the real id compliance, if a state was going to succeed

with issuing and -- issuing an alternative driver's license, here has to be a distinguishing mark. for our legislature, it was very important that marking not xists. there are many members of the legislature doing the caucus that did not want to marking. they felt it was going to be very difficult for people to come out and take advantage of the opportunity. eventually that proved to be an area that could make or break the legislature and -- the legislation. latino caucus members and other

members decided that they wanted to proceed with a legislative solution. that is the debate that then moves the bill forward. >> turning to delaware but staying in the state of free of limitation, delaware took a unique approach. the legislature worked with communities and put together a task force of community members wide ranging to help them shape the legislative process. you were a participant of that task force. can you tell us about that xperience. >> like california this is something we have been considering for a long time. once it really started to take shape -- we have a great

relationship with our legislature. we were able to do a lot of preplanning before a bill is drafted. in this case we said before we do this, why do we bring together all the stakeholders and find out what is going on and the potential sponsors of the bill. as you said, senate resolution to a foreign task force. we involved on the stakeholders e could possibly think of. e have law-enforcement representation, members of the hispanic community. the chair of the hispanic commission. we have four legislators representing the senate and the

house. we spent summer months just debating this topic of whether delaware should enter into the business of offering a privilege card to undocumented immigrants. the need was clear. these folks are driving on our roads. highway safety publications by not having them properly credentialed. the desire to necessarily do that is what we were debating and how people are going about doing that. we brought an external stakeholders to give us presentations. we ask the coalition of secure driver's license to come in and present information on what our states are doing. we are also trying to get a natural view of what is going on throughout the country regarding this topic. we took that information at the end of it decided to go forward with legislation and incorporating things we felt

were very important in our state to make sure everybody that was involved is comfortable with this legislation. and some key components in trying to identify someone, we do require fingerprinting. we also required two years of tax returns. it was a great process and one that i would recommend to get that stakeholder fine. it helped us put forward a bill that was going to benefit veryone. >> how did you manage participation and did you include members of that task force who may not have thought themselves part of this issue.

how did they contribute to that ledge slavet outcome? >> that was one area where my understanding was there was some initial opposition, because we are in the business of identifying people and how you do that if there aren't any documents to identify. we made sure we had a pretty balanced approach. maybe not straight opposition but concern. and then full support so we could properly vet those things. the fingerprinting was the most debated topic. maybe two or three meetings whether fingerprinting made any sense for our state. >> as was mentioned, delaware and hawaii are the two states that have passed laws. turning the conversation to administrator alverson from nevada, who was really your model in nevada for

implementing this type of a wall from the dmv perspective and what lessons did you learn? >> unlike what happened in his state the dmv was not brought into the initial discussions regarding the introduction of the legislation. one senators who were involved in sponsoring this bill had introduced at the legislative level, that is when he became knowledgeable to us, at which oint we immediately stepped in to join the conversation and see what it is that we could help them with. > where their model states you

are looking at? >> it was very helpful during the legislative hearing process. they provided us with invaluable lessons learned. for five years prior to nevada -- we utilize their knowledge and lessons learned to help them implement their projects, which have helped us become very successful. >> did you do anything differently than utah? >> the first thing they didn't uggest we change the name from driver privilege card to a driver authorization card. and had a confrontation to that wasn't necessarily true. the first thing was to change the name from privileged authorization. one of the best lessons learned from nevada is what utah had used as far as the translation services as required for foreign documents. it is a huge impact on the agencies that have this undertaking. the legislature did not give us

any statutory authority to regulate the document. we ended up putting that into a egulatory process. this was probably the biggest iece of debate that occurred during the legislative process for nevada. we had recommendations from everything that seven-year-old johnny should be able to translate their parents for documents to having dmv technicians do it. this is where we took the information from the stakeholders. we did determine indian that was not in the best interest of ither the apartment or the individual to do that. we did require that translators self certify and the authorized through the department to be able to translate the foreign documents. adam may have some follow-up

questions. this was one of the biggest challenges for us. ensuring we had a proper translation process in place. >> what is clearly emerging here is that maybe legislative wishes and implementation realities that the issuing agencies have faced. i'm curious giving back to erica. where the specific decisions that legislators want to prescribe in statute? and specific reasons to leave it to the dmv in california to ake? ms. contreras: once the legislature decided they would move forward with a more current priorities, what priorities remain ensuring that the states strike a balance between meeting the requirements and not putting this population at risk for deportation or discrimination, even in our local governments.

there was definitely a lot of thought and work with into the legislation. the author had been working diligently with the stakeholders, including law enforcement on providing direction. specifically about discrimination and protection, indicating the information provided both for identity in the information, for example he list, applicants were not republican information or public record. there was a lot of thought put nto that process in the senate

with the bill was in the house. there were efforts to strengthen that. we work very closely with the dmv and the governor to make sure they remained as this bill headed to the governor for signature. that was critical for our legislature. mr. hunter: after the bill was passed and the california dmv stood up to the program over the course of your, are you surprised at any decisions they took? ms. contreras: the way i describe it is the legislature, and int for staff to senator mora, and i was tasked with being very involved in the implementation. there were very specific parameters that were decided in statute. there were authorization for that element of emergency regulation including the type of documentation that should be used for the purpose of verifying identity. the process of verification. during the time the bill was getting ready to go into the governor's desk, there was a year and have delayed

implementation. the staff is concerned. my boss was concerned. why was it taking so long? why can't they just figure it out quicker? we have direction to take the authorization. it should be done quickly. we care about this and have been talking about it so let's do it. when we were in the process after the bill got signed, how i describe it is we did not know what we did not know. and things happen into dmv would come up with the process where they would decide a procedure and we were like weight, though --wait, those are amazing -- major policy questions. how do you do with a population that would previously had a drivers license because there were no

rules about whether you needed a proof of residency or u.s. legal residency? what if somebody had provided other identification that was not their own? they were things we did not know and the urine at delayed implementation was a very elpful thing to help guide some of the administrator policies. to better understand and have a good relationship with the dmv. and to also help engage on the stakeholders that may have the expertise in mplementation. >> how long did you have in nevada to set up your program and was it enough? ms. albertson: nevada had six months once the bill was approved. most motor vehicle agencies do have the process to issue a credential today. this one is different.

the six months was an adequate ime period for us to develop regulations that we needed as well as work with our car production vendor to make sure we can properly at the markings on the new card type. mr. hunter: did you feel you had sufficient guidance? you mentioned having just joined the process once the first village reduce -- first bill was introduced. did you have sufficient latitude granted to make your decision as the administrator in designing the program after the law passed? ms. albertson: once the bill was introduced and we became aware of it, we became actively involved with the bill sponsor. because we were id compliant at the time we do what we had to do to remain real id compliant. and provide insight, information, and guidance to the senator who was more than willing to work with us to ensure that this important piece of legislation we get past what the department support. mr. hunter: turning a bit more towards implementation, in delaware you are right about

the midpoint of when the law passed in june to when you say you should be ready. do you have a date certain? mr. vien: the losses december 27 so everything is aimed towards that date. we have six months like nevada to implement. i would've liked more time. we are going to make some concessions on the process efficiency that we will implement afterwards that will stop us from getting this bill and this new law up and running. with a little bit more time we could be ready right out of the gate. any state that is looking into this ever devised more than six months of possible. understandably they wanted to become quickly. when you are in the meat of the dmv and you have been for some time you understand all the processes. in our case, even before became the bill, that his work to our advantage because we understand where everybody's mindset is that will be impacted by this.

we can make our policy decisions based on a lot of conversations that we've had in the past. that helps us be a lot more proactive than it would be otherwise. we are definitely not flying mr. hunter: you mentioned the that delaware will be instituting this fingerprint and background check process. as i understand it, it involves two separate agencies and touch points for applicants. this is an approach that the states that currently issue these laws have not yet taken. can you talk a little bit more about how that is going to work and where you are in finalizing those implementation plans? mr. vien: the city, they do fingerprinting for the driving privilege card. that is where that idea originally came from. this is one thing that was very important to law enforcement for the state. when they pull somebody over on the road they want to know who

, they are dealing with. obviously fingerprinting is one way you can certainly identify somebody. you have a biometric that you have captured of them. there is great debate about this, whether or not should be a state check, a state and federal check. where we landed was that we would do a state sbi check at the various state police facilities that do fingerprinting. unless there is a conflict with a name or aliases the person provided, or they have an outstanding warrant, that's not going to go any further. they will clear the individual. they will capture the fingerprint and pass the information along to us. if there is a warrant or conflict, like they say i'm john and they are really joe, they can dig into it further. we are setting up an interface between us and the state police to make that process as seamless as possible. we are working on outreach to make it clear the state police

is the first step in order to get a driving privilege card. go there and once they have been vetted at the state police it will be electronically verifiable by us. mr. hunter: do you plan to have capacity ready on day one for the anticipated new demands that these agencies will see? mr. vien: we are going with a scheduling model. the state police, i believe are , doing the same thing. that is our best agenda controlling capacity. one thing i can attest to us that you do not know the entire population is that you are dealing with. we've had several different numbers. they keep going up as we dig more into it. we drafted legislation and work around 32,000. that was the number we queued in on. that was from pew research done in 2008. we also heard much more than that. we were recently at the mexican consulate and they said they currently have 40,000 valid mexican passports issued to delaware residents.

that is just one nationality. that has -- take a step back for a moment. who knows whether those people are still living in our state? you look at other states that have implemented scheduling. we will be scheduling for multiple reasons, not only to not impact our other customers who are they and increased wait times, because at the dmv, it's all about the wait times. we don't want to increase wait times. also for the individual coming to get a driving privilege card, there will be an established timeframe where we will be able to service them. they can come in and get questions answered and don't have to wait a long amount of time. we are not having to have them wait in lines every single day in hopes to be served that day. that is the reason we are taking a scheduled approach. mr. hunter: california, delaware , and it sums like most of the other states do have appointment systems.

nevada is one state that did not. i'm curious if you tell us about what strategies you employ to be mindful of wait times and to concurrently serve the existing client base you already have? ms. albertson: because there was not a lot of other states that implemented similar bills and we do not have capacity or an appointment to some, our approach was to work in the legislature and have them authorize 18 additional staff. we used our averages for the amount of time it takes for a technician to process a transaction and multiply that times the estimated 60,000 people they anticipated would come in for these cards and came up with the need for nine additional staff. the legislature provide that appropriation. that was for nine technicians nine additional driving instructors. it definitely was a challenge. we had worked with the community groups and advocacy groups beforehand that the cards would

be made available as of january 2. we literally had busloads of people at our doors on january 2 that were ready to come in and get their drivers authorization cards. one of the big challenges, even though we worked with the community advocacy groups as far as educating individuals on the drivers authorization cards, there was not a wide awareness that it was not just a matter of coming in and paying the fee in and filling out an application. that they were tests associated to it. nevada really missed the mark in that regard. i know that when we met with california, after we implemented after several months there was a , group of us that would to the california dmv and said here, learn from us. california make great effort to improve upon the mistakes that nevada had made. it worked itself out. of course we had that initial , bubble of individuals that came in to get the cards. but once they found they had to

take the written test as well as the driving test, that help to level out somewhat the impact on the offices. part of our analysis for the 18 additional staff was that we did not want to impact our customer wait times because that is what it is all about the dmv. how long your customer wait times are. we missed the mark a little bit in that area but it could've , been much, much worse. mr. hunter: pivoting back to you, what did you learn from nevada and in the state that has , the largest unauthorized immigrant population estimated at 1.4 million unauthorized immigrants this is a huge , operation. ms. contreras: california did estimate it was going to the 1.4 be 1.4 million applicants over three years. in the 10 months that the dmv

has the issuing driver's licenses, we've had over 500,000 people who have a drivers license. 1.8 visits for the marked cards. there was absolutely a lot to learn from other states. i think that period of time with the delayed implementation, you asked me or my boss specifically how we felt about that lif delay, would we be concerned or nervous? when we realized how much education was needed and how little time we had, it was good we had that time. it allowed legislators to meet with their communities. we would partner with the dmv. the dmv would send a spokesperson to a community. you would host a forum and the message was, are you ready? readyu going to be january 2? what do you need to do? need touments do you

get ready? the dmv held over 200 workshops throughout the state and continue to do education throughout the state. part of why i am excited to participate today is because our conversations and our did really provide factual information that is not just sensationalizing the paper. they can help inform decisions of legislators. we are happy to learn from nevada. mr. hunter: we are very glad to provide that opportunity for all of you and everyone watching here as well. i'd be curious director vien, we , heard about other state models from california and nevada. since you are right in the throes of making decisions to implement this program, which other states are standing out? what types of programs are you looking to implement in delaware? mr. vien: as we are implementing , one of the states we are looking at california. we are trying to leverage their extensive research body they

have the dmv because of the size -- the state the size of ours has a couple of research managers. we're looking closely at maryland, and neighboring state of ours that is already doing this. and vermont is another state and connecticut is another state that we are looking at. we pulled information. we really studied them in utah as well. how we can translate those lessons learned into our state? that was an effort on their part to keep other states or folks from other states from basically flooding their doors with false residency documents. they wanted to say this person has lived here for two years as a resident of maryland and we're looking to do the same thing. because we are so small and close to everybody else it is , easy to come into delaware. that is our attempt to do the same thing maryland is doing, trying to limit the number of

people that can say yes, i'm a resident here when they just showed up yesterday. >> can we ask a question? mr. hunter: certainly. go head. head. just a moment, he will get a microphone. right over here on the side, please. >> thank you. my name is armando guzman and i am with pbs, we are broadcasting in spanish nationally. albertsonask miss have you found this to be a burden on the state at all? ms. albertson: no, not at all. the numbers came in significantly lower than what was anticipated and with the additional staffing resources we were given by the legislature it has not been a burden. >> miss contreras, in california , i heard a report on one of the

news channels stating that in california, everybody is now getting registered to vote at the same time once they get their drivers licenses. this will allow undocumented immigrants to vote. can you please clarify? ms. contreras: there was a piece of legislation authored by an co-authored by a number of latin latino legislators and sponsored by the secretary of state. the purpose of the law is to create a mechanism to basically better meet the voter motor act. this is an attempt to get more people to register to vote. there is the author, our office, and the sponsor worked very closely with the dmv to make

sure that the bill was amended so that they were no provisions in the bill that would inadvertently register undocumented individuals to vote. moving forward, since we have parameters of who we know is applying for a license in california, the dmv has a mechanism to be able to say these people are not eligible. we are not going to automatically register this population because they are not eligible. they don't meet the criteria. the information you are hearing is not fact. the legislature has taken great caution to ensure that no undocumented individual is excellently registered to vote. the secretary of state's office

is working very closely with the legislature on the implementation to make sure there is nothing left where that is even a risk. >> if i may, why new mexico and washington state have gone out to issue these licenses without marking on them they are not for federal purposes or just issued to undocumented? washington and new mexico have been issuing driver's license to everyone regardless of immigration status for quite a long time. the state of washington has never had a legal presence requirement, meaning they never had to prove they were legally in the united states to get a license. and new mexico passed a law in the early 2000's that allows unauthorized immigrants to get a drivers license. these two states are not real id compliant.

they did not need to create a special alternative license with the distinctive markings to get give to the unauthorized population. if they did want to become real id compliant, and i know there are conversations in those two states about becoming id compliant, they would need to also make decisions regarding licenses for unauthorized immigrants. >> thank you very much. mr. hunter: this is a good opportunity if other people have questions to please move in line up behind the microphone there and i would be glad to call on you. michelle, while you are speaking to the examples of new mexico in washington can you tell us more , about two states that passed a a long now, delaware at the table and hawaii -- can you tell us what is going on there? are other states considering similar laws? ms. waslin: hawaii passed the law the same day as delaware. we have been speaking to dmv officials and legislators in hawaii. we examined their legislative

language and are trying to learn more about that state. one thing that is really interesting about hawaii is there unauthorized population is a little bit different than those in the states represented here. it is many filipinos and people from micronesia. we will see how that affects their decisions around implementation because i expect that the languages they have to produce materials in and the documents they accept from foreign countries are going to be different for that. their law also creates an alternative license that is for unauthorized immigrants but goes well beyond the unauthorized immigrant population as well. they wanted to create a document that other populations that have a hard time getting documents could get. they include the homeless, the elderly, people who are institutionalized. there are a couple different groups of people listed in their legislation.

the legislation also tends to be very specific in terms of what documents are going to be accepted. we really wanted to learn from the dmv officials about what decisions they are able to make in light of this very specific legislation. and then finally we are learning , that hawaii is unique because their implementation happens at the county level. the counties operate independently and take a lead on this. we are going to be learning more about that in the next couple of days. mr. hunter: you mentioned documents here and i would like to go back to nevada. there were some particular experiences you had regarding documents and translations and some lessons learned that surprised you that we would like to hear about. ms. albertson: again, because we were not getting any statutory authority over regulating the translation of foreign documents , we did include that into the regulatory process. we received the most feedback from the stakeholder groups as far as how we wanted to handle that.

initially, we wanted to have the documents notarized and that met with great opposition. that was one that the department was willing to say we concede. it was an unnecessary burden to place it on individuals who also have documents notarized. then again, going back to -- we also could not be so lax in our processes we would allow a child to translate the document for a parent. we did come to a consensus with the groups, and for the most part, it has worked very well. it is a self regulated process in the state of nevada which means you as a new visual attest individual attest to us you are authorized or that you are eligible to translate documents from a particular language into english. you self certify that with a signature and you have to provide that in its original form to the department. there is a station associated to

that that has a fraudulent and purge risk statement. we take you on your face value with that. we have no way of authenticating that. one of the first incidents of fraud that nevada experienced with the implementation of the driver authorization card was through an interpreter, excuse me, the translation piece. to translateified from spanish to english and they submitted a document that was in line with another -- i don't recall which one specifically. i think it was farsi. they were consulted and they said they had basically done a google translation. they entered the information from the foreign document into google and they even provided that translation. we were able to remove that person from our authorized translator's list. one of the other pieces going back to that, learning from utah is that they suggested we do not , allow businesses to register as translators.

everybody wanted to be aaa interpreter services. our specific regulations say we would only allow the to be for a natural person. i can beat terry albertson doing business as aaa interpretation services, but when i go up on her website, which contains over 700 approved translators, that talisman to be listed -- through alphabetical order. i would encourage those of you working through the legislative process that if you can get the legislators to post the cost of the individual wants to charge, and ranges from everything to hundreds of dollars for a simple birth certificate to free of charge. without the regulatory authority to oversee that or to provide oversight to that, you also need the resources and motor to do that, it does leave the community somewhat vulnerable. when you have a list of 800

individuals and although our website will list what languages you can translate and, if you're going to run into 500 of them, what is the likelihood you're going to call a number of those individuals to get your documents translated to find out what they are charging? you're probably going to go with the first one on the list unless the cost is so exorbitant or prohibited -- prohibitive you will continue down. there is nothing on the website and no regulatory or statutory process to say we need to be able to post your fees there so individuals can make those choices from that perspective. mr. hunter: i think you can appreciate the challenge of issuing agencies in the states are having to serve a population that may not have served before and to recognize identification documents, credentials that are issued in different countries and different languages, and still try to maintain avenues of integrity in ensuring

application. california developed a unique model of electronically verifying certain documents with the mexican foreign ministry. can you talk about that? contreras: i will speak briefly on that because the dmv representative would probably be at best able to describe it. we understand the dmv was able to get countries like mexico to be able to develop technology that can verify a u.s. passport or other documentation. that would easily be verifiable and where the customer can go from submitting the application and being cleared of tickets and being able to go from the ticket window where they first walked in to getting a drivers license within just a very short period of time, which was the goal in our case. a state like california, a country like california, that's

the way it feels. in a state like california where you have so much diversity and immigrants from all over the world, there are countries where the country of origin of the individual may have documentation that is appropriate for that country but does not meet the security features that our state requires specifically for the implementation of the bill. moving in that direction for california with a large population of undocumented individuals who are seeking drivers licenses, it could result for us in less wait time and more expedited process and the ability to serve all customers, including applicants more efficiently. people get very discouraged when they go to the ticket window without an appointment and it ends up being several weeks and months before they can get direction about the appropriate

documentation. because of the large number of empty --ming to the the dmv it could be several , months. as a worst-case scenario, the dmv is very sensitive to that, the legislature as well. we are excited about that technology. mr. hunter: to open it up, how important are forward consulates -- foreign consulates in your work? do you have to seek them out or is it open to anybody? mr. vien: we've been working with the mexican consulate and that is proven to be very beneficial for us. just eye-opening and the potential number of individuals. they were very proud and happy to show us their issuance process. we like to think we're kind of the be-all end-all of document issuance of the dmv because we take it very seriously. being able to go and see the consular id cards and the vetting process they use, it's

very eye-opening for us and it's going to enable us to allow a high level of confidence represented with those documents that the proper vetting took place before coming in to see us. that was very beneficial. they are remaining a part of the conversation. i'd share the transportation subcommittee for the delaware hispanic commission. they have been coming to our meetings and being a part of that conversation as we pointed out and we are reaching out to other consulates as well. ms. albertson: the same holds true for nevada. when we started having community town hall meetings with our public information officers, we included not only law enforcement, but the consulate office and representatives as well as the representatives from local churches. as many as we could think of to invite. the hispanic chambers of commerce. organizations that have greater outreach to the community to help us get the word out. mr. hunter: i want to pause and

see if there are questions in the room. go ahead. could you approach the mic? >> hi. tim henderson quick question for , scott. when you talk about fingerprinting, does that go through any the processes for secure communities? does it go to immigration authorities as well? mr. vien: no. the fingerprinting process that will be used for this is what our state police agency dean's applicant. if you are going to to become a school bus driver, a taxicab driver, a schoolteacher or what have you, you have applicant pool fingerprinting.

it does not commingle with criminal finger printing records. it's not reported to any agencies like that. it's a completely separate process, but it still gives them tools they need so they can compare against the things they need to, so it will be a part of the applicant pool. mr. hunter: you look like you wanted to jump in. contreras: i wanted to chime in because i want to talk about what the states are going to do. they should understand how existing between immigration and enforcement in the dmv works. also, between law enforcement information systems, which are hosted by the dmv and immigration enforcement. california, our legislatures

were very sensitive and wanted to make sure there was the greatest access. this conversation about we didn't know, we didn't know, we have in california the cletc, a california law enforcement telecommunications system. that is a system that hosts, let's say you get stopped by a traffic officer and they're going to write you a ticket, they look you up and they find your information. modusre are existing operandi's between law enforcement and the dmv in california that allows access. that happens to also be at the national level. while there is protection in places where you can't use the information to specifically arrest somebody, the knowledge that the person has an ab-16 license in california does not they areally mean undocumented. we made that very clear in

statute. we also said it is a crime to discriminate based on that. if immigration enforcement can't just go to the dmv and sale and list ofant the entire all ap 16 applicants and those that have licenses. they can't do that. what they can do is if they are looking for an individual because they have a deportation order or something that allows them to go to the dmv, the dmv must comply. they say, hey, i'm looking for this person. we want to pick them up. can you please give us their address? and that case the person may be , found and deported accordingly. that is not something done by the states. it is driven at the federal level. in the conversation about states and moving to the direction of drivers licenses, one of the key messages and lessons learned from california was that the

about discrimination and keeping information private does not preclude enforcement officers from being able to find people who have deportation orders. for example, my senator, when he goes and does a presentation or a workshop on driver's licenses, about the opportunity cost for people to get access to drivers licenses to drive their , children to school. if you have a deportation order or have questions about your history or your background you , should probably consult an attorney before you go to the dmv. i needed to make sure to state that because while there is a lot of protections in place, there are things that are not in the states control to manage. thank you. we have another question. >> i am becky with pew. i was wondering if other states

are contacting you in their exploration of this? we saw the map and there was a bunch of states that have not yet considered this. are you hearing from states that are looking into this? and speaking to michelle's point about vermont, if we did see other states pursue this, with -- would that cut down on fraud? ms. albertson: in the case of nevada, whenever -- when california implemented their law they reached out to us. they were five or six of us is unhappy with the director in her administrators and deputies to share the lessons learned. it is invaluable what you can learn from the other states. i know scott has alluded to the american association of motor vehicle administrators organization that both my