discusses the increase in the number of retirees and the fiscal sustainability of the program. as always we take your calls and on facebook and twitter.ation congressman paul ryan of wisconsin begins his first week as speaker of the house today as congress returns. president obama will head to new jersey to talk about group -- criminal justice reform in the supreme court will hear a case about determination in jury selection. a group of real -- republicans met to talk about the way forward on the debate, and this in the wake of last week's cnbc debate and complaints about the content, format and moderators. , askingup our program

you how you would change the presidential debates. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. .ndependence, (202) 748-8002 you can also post your comments on facebook, or send us an e-mail at journal@c-span.org. good morning. mentioned, republicans met yesterday in the nation's capital about the way forward on the debate. here is the headline in usa today. gop candidates say debates must change. seeking to address candidate complaints, the rnc made staff changes designed to -- and thehief counsel parties do debate negotiator, an organizer according to an e-mail sent to campaigns from rnc chief of staff.

i want to show you the story of politicos eisenstadt, reporting about last night's meeting, his headline, gop campaigns push to take more control of debates. phone ands on the covers politics for politico. tell us about this meeting yesterday. what was the motivation for republicans to meet? guest: the meeting was summed up pretty well, which is that the -- the debate last week in colorado was considered a total debacle. -- they have not been happy with the way republican presidential campaigns have been going. on theame the debates rnc. why? on negotiatingen

format and content and moderators in 2012, so to a large degree, some of these campaigns -- the rnc has not been effective in negotiating on their have. -- on their behalf. things a lot to happen fairly soon, just to remind viewers of the schedule of republican debates, a week from tomorrow is the next debate in foxbusinesssted by and by the wall street journal. by cnn in5, hosted salem. guest: the changes were agreed upon yesterday evening at this meeting which was held in alexandria in old town. it will take effect after the next debate.

it will begin to impact debates after that and that will be in december. host: we are asking viewers how they would change the gop debates and going forward, what do we know of how the candidates would like to change their debates? guest: every candidate want something a little bit different for the most part. there is agreement upon the campaigns, these of the things of the agreed-upon. all debates should be no longer than two hours. all candidates should get an equal number of questions. all candidates should get the opportunity to give opening and closing statements. there are some things that some candidates want and others don't. wars --g that came up was that these undercard candidates who have been relegated to debates earlier in the evening want there to be just one debate.

they want everybody to be on the same stage. host: isn't that a bit of a problem? there are more candidates, perhaps more than we have ever seen, in a presidential race. guest: that is the problem with the process, and that's partly why the rnc have lost so much control. you have so many different theydates and campaigns, kind of want different things and it's hard to accommodate all of them on one stage. that is part of the problem, which is the republican party has lost control of the process, because they are dealing with some erick wright -- so many primary candidates. host: what will we hear next? the rnc is ok with a lot of the changes that were agreed to last night. one of the most amount of changes is the campaigns will be in charge of negotiating format

andes directly with the rnc the networks broadcasting the debates. the rnc is going to be relegated to focusing more on mystical issues. the most part, they are ok with that, but they will be taking on a smaller role of a have in the past. host: alex eisenstadt, political reporter for political -- for politico, thanks for the update. let us hear from you. what are your thoughts on changing the debates? frank in ohio on the democrat side, good morning. i am watching this whole thing and i'm a little bit baffled by it. it's the republican debate and the public and cap -- national committee and the candidates and they don't seem to like each other very much. they don't seem to be a will to run their own show. this is an example of why they can't run congress, they are a

bunch of goofballs. they follow donald trump who has no information. if they wanted to get something done, they should hire the democratic national committee and the people are smart, they will vote democrats into congress, that is my opinion. host: mike in arizona, republican line. i think what's missing in the debates is that moderators are not asking each of the candidates difficult questions. aboute not asking president bush's invasion of iraq or the factual information that came out of that. what about -- i have a thing the execution of it, besides him being murdered, i am one person that would argue

against any kind of torture, but think in bin laden's case i would have made an example and find out from that man everything that he knew. killing him, the library and the database went with it. i don't want to take anything away from the brave soldiers that went in, i'm just saying the order to kill him on of the investigated. who was pushing the president to hard -- the hardest to execute bin laden? judy who's hear from is in hawaii, democrat line. i was floored by the debate. it was insulting to the american people. you have candidates who want to dedicate their lives to taking care of our country and

presidents don't make a lot of money, let's put it that way. these moderators to ask questions like they did, it is insulting. it seems more what they wanted to do was dig up past scandals and destroy these people, rather than get to the heart of the matter on how they will help this country. host: do you think the format itself, with the number of the candidates, are there too many moderators or people asking questions? caller: it's not too many moderators. moderators, there is enough time for them to ask questions.

moderator, youer give them more time for more questions. with the three of them, they could continue to ask questions, but their questions were not questions that were helping the american people understand who we would choose for the president. what they were trying to do was destroy these candidates and it is insulting to be calling donald trump a cartoon character. i could not believe it. donald trump has laid out a plan, and it's a good plan. host: but remind you of the debate schedule we showed you earlier. the republican schedule looks like this the remainder of 2015. tuesday a debate next posted by foxbusiness and the wall street journal. december 15, the debate hosted

by salem radio and the wall street journal -- cnn, rather. in january, there is a foxnews debate schedule. february 6, abc news and the ij review. february 10, salem radio with cnn. cbs news debate on february 13. up in the air is the one on february 26 with telemundo. they scheduled democratic debates, the primary debates, the next debate is coming up on november 14 posted by cbs news and the des moines register. news and w andc you are in new hampshire. january 17, nbc news again and the congressional black caucus. there were 11 posted by pbs and univision and washington post with march 9.

asking you how you would change the debates. -- in manassas, virginia and report -- republican line. caller: i think the primaries should not be in iowa, new hampshire and south carolina. they should be in california, texas, and florida. diverse economies, 100 million people. these three states are one third of the population with a diverse economy. was defeated as vice president and now became speaker of the house, come on. the democrats have no debates. you can't have a woman as a president at this time, the democrats have become a joke. the question for them is, other going to be anybody in -- left in your party after next year's election?

the first voting states should be california, texas and florida. host: we welcome your comments on twitter. " you cannot have so many candidates, nothing but 32nd town -- soundbites." should run the democratic debates and democrats should run the republican debates." facey forget that complained that the liberal media ask stupid questions, but they forget that fox asked stupid questions first." next up is williamsburg, virginia, republican, josh. caller: first comment about the debates, it is going to be different -- typical for these early debates to be successful and satisfy everybody's

expectation of what a debate is because there are some any candidates. down the road when some of the lower polling candidates start dismantling their campaigns in getting out of the race, i think things will fall into line. there are so many candidates and so much time left, the could make these early debates a little more equitable and have a couple of debates and spread them out, say more than five people, a random sampling. e respond to a previous caller who said that republicans were goofballs. that is absurd to suggest that these candidates are goofballs, and i would challenge people that are lining up behind hillary clinton to look at themselves in the mirror and ask themselves why am i voting for someone who is absolutely morally bankrupt and devoid of camp -- character. not since richard nixon have we

had a presidential candidate so lacking in dignity and character and poise and grace. host: we appreciate your comment. a number of for the candidates on the sundays shows, including ben carson on abc this week we talked about some of the changes he would like to see in the debate format. >> we have to ask ourselves, what is the purpose of a debate? the real purpose is to allow the voters to have an opportunity to see what is behind each of the candidates. what do they actually think about the various policies that are affecting the lives of everyday americans? if you make that the goal, that will help you define how debates should go, and some of the things we have seen recently, that certainly was not the goal. >> what would you like changed specifically, the number of participants, the moderators? >> i would like to see us be

able to have a substantial opening statement, at least a minute, a substantial closing statement, and i would like to guidelines in terms of people, when they respond to questions. ignore the time constraints, others are very careful to stay within them. i think that creates inequality. we need to tighten it up a little bit and do it more like a professional type of debate. there have been a lot of criticism, what do you think the criteria should be for moderators? >> we should have moderators who are interested in disseminating the information about the , youdates, as opposed to know, gotcha. defend yourself on that, you know. host: ben carson, yesterday on

abc's this week yesterday. we are asking you how you would change the presidential debates after a debate among republican candidates following the cnbc debate last week. there is the front page of the washington times. republican campaign aides to meet on changes for debates. they say that presidential campaign aides huddled at the washington hotel to discuss frustration with the televised debates as the rnc shuffled its staff to insert more senior oversight into the process. lead piece inthe the washington times on another issue, their headline about the debt when the president leaves office in 2017. --ma to end term with $2020 $20 trillion debt. -- signs into law the new two

year budget deal, it'll bring into focus a part of a lady he does not like to talk about. his been a agreement with congress will suspend the nation's debt limit and allow the treasury tomorrow another $1.5 trillion by the end of his presidency in 2017. back to your calls and comments on changing the debate process. democrats line, randy and -- in texas. caller: the way i would change the debates is to make it available to all americans, either through c-span or public television. right now, because of by budget, i cannot afford the expanded -- expanded satellite program that would give me the 24-hour news this is, and because something important, we are choosing the next president, i

think they should be available to all people. there are some constraints butuse of fox news or cnn, being that it is somewhat of a public service announcement, i think it should be available to all americans regardless of their income level. host: some of those debates are scheduled with the broadcast network, with cbs and nbc. north carolina, democrat line, good morning. caller: i would like to say a few things about this. the moderators should be able to ask these people anything they want. complainingans are because they got asked tough questions. look what they've done to obama since he became president. they asked things that the great hymn, everyday. about donald trump making a deferment to avoid deployment.

these things the to be asked of all of these people for the american people know who we are trying to get as a president. they need to stop complaining. donald trump did not run america and people need to set him straight. host: thank you, here is ashley in texas. democrat line. caller: good morning. i think the debate should be broken into smaller debates with fewer people. i do not think it's possible to have a debate when you have that many people on stage. petty things that they are talking about. it is ridiculous if you want me to be honest, and as far as ben carson is concerned, i understand that he is supposed to be the answer to barack obama, in the minority communities, he will never be. he does not understand what he

is talking about. not understood 10 things he has said since he has been running, and break them into smaller groups so you can get some understanding of what they are talking about. it is just one big mess as far as i'm concerned. host: asking you how you would change the presidential debates, (202) 748-8000 for democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. (202) 748-8002 for independents. warroad to the white house coverage coming today on c-span. jeb bush begins a chevy can fix it to her -- tour. his first stop is tampa, florida. the new speaker of the house begins his first full week in fiveosition and was on all

television talk shows on sunday. he was on a number of programs, yesterday. headlines in the washington post, republicans told fox and other networks that he will put forth a more robust gop agenda that will serve as a blueprint for republicans going into the 2016 residential and congressional elections. to have anhave alternative to those country so that if we see the chance the chance to lead, this is what it will look like, this is how we will fix the problems, working families are facing. that is what congressman ryan said on fox news. in usa today -- wall street journal, ryan makes good on immigration pledge and this is what he said yesterday about working with the president on immigration. >> you said that you want to tackle issues head on.

first order of business, immigration reform? >> nice. i think it would be a ridiculous notion to try and work on an issue like this with the president we cannot trust on this issue. a tried to circumvent legislative process with his executive orders. if we reach consensus on how best to achieve border and interior enforcement security, that's fine, but we have taken plenty of tactical risks in congress. i think it's time we take some policy risks are showing the people what we believe, who we are, and how we can the prop -- how we can fix the country's problems. host: paul ryan on one of five tv talk shows. asking you this morning how you would fix the debate process. tennessee, larry on the democrat line. i would like to see the

-- get the questions to the candidates ahead of time and give them an opportunity to get a detailed answer prepared. i would like to see the debates open, where you would not have to have cable news to be able to see the debates. --hink the idea of [inaudible] i think it would help if they had the questions ahead of time so they had time to prepare and then had a time limit on answering them.

prepare andy can have a sustained answer with -- succin a sustained t answer with details. host: should a moderator or other candidate should be able to follow up on that response? caller: they should all have a chance to answer the same question. the moderator should be able to point out -- let the american people decide on whether a person has answered a question or not. let's let them decide, they will no. having the american people want what is best for this country, -- they want somebody [inaudible]

as long as can still vote, would it seems like it's getting harder to happen now -- as long as we can still vote, the american people should have a say in this. host: let's move to the independent line, this is mississippi -- michigan and maxine. caller: good morning. in respect to the presidential debates, 15 candidates is just too many. they should break it up into fives. they could have three separate debates with five candidates. they should not list them by their poll numbers, they should go alphabetically.

i think that would be better. also, if a question is asked and there's a snarky remark in it, the candidate should be able to refuse to answer it, and i think that would help keep it civil. i hope that would make a difference and i hope they take my advice. you have too many people on the stage and on the other debate you have too many -- you don't have enough. lets them alphabetically, not by poll numbers, thank you. host: border calls coming up on how to change the debate process. congress returns to a full agenda of items. theing us this morning, as new speaker begins his first full week, what will it look like on the house side in terms

of his first agenda? guest: all eyes will be on paul ryan. this is his first week as speaker and he hit five talk shows yesterday and made it very clear what his priorities are. he wants to change the way the house is run, and he wants to layout table division. people will be watching him to see what steps he takes on both those fronts this week. his first big test in the house will be the highway bill, which comes up for consideration this week. it is facing a november 20 deadline, and a little patch was passed recently to give lawmakers extra time to work out a compromise. the bills do differ, but the senate has already passed its bill and the house is taking up its bill this week. the question for ryan, he wants this process, is whether he is

going to allow a lot of amendments, and there are funding issues as well, so this will be his big -- his first big test. host: washington post has a picture of president obama theing a we go last week of defense authorization bill. there is talk that congress will work on overriding the president's veto. guest: i'm not sure what's going to happen with that. they can try to override, but they don't really have the votes for that. it's not clear what is going to happen with that particular attempt. host: on the senate side, what are we going to see? guest: you will see another push back of the president on the senate side. republicans are trying to get the bill through that would have the epa revisit the rule on environmental protections oversight of water.

small bodies of water. republicans complained that the epa rules is good so far -- has gone so far that it would regulate puddles and ditches. some democrats agree with them on this, that they would like the epa to look at this rule, which they see is -- see as overreach. a potential hurdle in the senate, and it's -- it does not see but the republicans will be able to reach the votes to get past that. host: you can follow her reporting on twitter. back to your calls on how you would change the presidential debates. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. (202) 748-8001 republicans.

others.8-8002 all florida, hello. caller: i think each of the candidates should get to speak 10 minutes on what they think. i think there was a lot of bias in rnc ended the beauty of -- there is a lot of bias in the rnc and in the media. something might not be the most important thing to a particular candidate, so each one should be able to express themselves freely. at 10 minutes apiece, that would be a pretty sizable thing. after that, maybe the press or the other candidates could take up questions, but i think it sort of incentive from the -- it is sort of slanted from beginning. host: independent line. caller: i think that we should be happy that we -- whoever

wants to run for president should be able to run. that's what makes our country gate, but mr. ryan is not going to do anything to help the poor or anybody or see that the credit forets anything they have done. he is not a truthful man. it is not tell the truth about his track -- how fast he runs or when he was running for president and i just can't see him. i was sorry when he got the job, thank you very much. coverage onuse c-span two, lots of comments on twitter about our chin, how would you change the presidential debate?

we welcome your spot -- your atughts http://twitter.com/cspanwj. caller: been a little while since i've spoken with you. so far, what i have heard from your republican callers, they want to placate the republicans. i am so sick of them wanting things done their way. i think it should continue just the way it is. i think it's a fitting that there are clown questions for clowns. -- the have a problem

democrats don't have a problem answering questions into the guy -- with all due direct -- that said they should be given the questions ahead of time, he meant no harm, but can you imagine? you have to be able to respondent answer things at the drop of a dime. are these people not able to think? times lookingon at the campaign of bernie sanders. he has a tough time turning his visions into reality is the headline. they write that senator bernie sanders promises a democratic socialist revolution and has enthralled liberal voters, but record shows he has had a tough time turning his progressive vision into reality. during his quarter-century in congress, he has been the chief sponsor of just three bills that were signed into law, two renaming u.s. postal service offices in his home state and

one that increase the annual for-of-living raise veterans benefits which he secured as chairman of the senate veterans affairs committee in 2013. the washington times writes a record matched by most other members of congress who struggle to find legislative needs is -- nietzsche is where they can advance their priorities. and also underscores the concerns among many in the democratic party establishment that their champion industries elections is to have a record of successes in addition to a liberal vision. we want to show you bernie sanders first campaign ad ahead of the new hampshire primary. >> the son of a polish immigrant who grew up in a brooklyn sentiment. he went to public school then college, the road to his life began fighting injustice and inequality. he moved to vermont, when elections. in congress, he stood up for working families and opposed the

iraq war, supporting veterans. now he is taking on wall street's -- wall street and a correct political system -- and a corrupt political system. fighting for living wages, equal pay and frequent public colleges. ofpeople are sick and tired establishment politics and they want real change. >> bernie sanders. father, buther, ran honest leader building a movement to give us a future to believe in. >> i'm bernie sanders and i approved this message. host: this ad ahead of the primaries. fred thompson, former senator, passed away. famous red pickup to -- red

pickup truck that the thompson drove when he ran for the tennessee senate race and after he won in 1994. fred thompson died yesterday of publications from cancer. the to your questions about -- changing the debates. fred is on the republican line in cordova. caller: i was thinking to focus less on a debate format and more a moderated discussion where everyone speaks on every issue. you limited to four areas. the first half hour, you emphasize what disagreements you have with the other party. republicans can challenge democrat issues and democrats can challenge republican issues. economy,lf-hour, the third half-hour, foreign affairs, fourth half-hour, a couple of specific issues like

immigration and tax policy. if you can't find an objective moderator. you guys on c-span on the gold standard of -- of objectivity, you do a fantastic job with that. conservatives should do the republican debate and liberals to do the democratic debate. host: david in new jersey on the democrat line. if you my comment is, don't have a nobel prize or equivalent in economics, political science, or international relations, i don't want to see you questioning candidates to lead the most powerful democracy on earth. i think we deserve that. host: we told you about the death of former tennessee senator fred thompson. we showed you him winning the campaign in 1994. we wanted to show you the video of the iowa caucuses -- campaigning in iowa, rather. this is from 2007. >> i grew up in tennessee.

my folks came off the farm at an early age. my dad set up a used car lot. for about 40s years -- he sold cars for about 40 years to the same people. posted have much formal education, but they valued it very highly. in usable to get mine together and working my way through, i got through school and law school and dissipated in some things that were important to the nation's history -- participated in some things that were important to the nation's history. host: here's career began with the watergate hearings back in 1973. a statement on his passing.

he served the people of tennessee with great honor from the courtroom to capitol hill to hollywood, his larger-than-life personality was infectious and he had a way of making all those around him strive to be better. -- fredomments from ted thompson, saying the review people -- very few people can light up the room the way fred thompson did. he used his magic as a lawyer, actor, watergate counsel and the u.s. senator to become one of the nations most critical public servants. independent line, terry, what are your thoughts on changing the debate process? thatr: i would like to say fred thompson will be missed. i think they should hook all these candidates up to lie detectors while they are giving their answers to the questions. host: what do you think that

would prove or do? caller: i think it would prove whether or not they are actually doing what they are saying -- they will do with it -- that really happens in my opinion -- that rarely happens in my opinion. host: chicago, democrat line. i am amazed at how ill-informed the viewers are. debates wereen the done by the league of women voters and the republicans do not like them doing the debates. people need to understand, most of these candidates want to control the whole process. they want to tell you what they want to tell you, they don't want to be challenged, and all this crappy put on now is just a scam to make you think they are being persecuted.

if you really want to debate, you canwhat you can do, ask everybody the same question, 11 to the audience because that is who they are playing to in the first place and you cut them up. most of them don't want to follow the rules. they have rules and decided they will not follow them. [inaudible] --

we need to have both democrat and republican candidates on the same stage together debating the issues that are brought forth, and the limited the audience. host: you think in a primary position, you would have both democrats and republicans on the same stage? yes, multiple candidates, we also need to have someone like third-party candidates in their. host: let's get one more thought. florida, democrat line. this.: my observation is the monitors are asking questions that the candidates have brought up themselves. imagine you have governor kasich bringing up a question of whether or not we are discussing

things that are important and what does donald trump do? he talks about how he is at the end of the line. what difference does it make? he is asking questions, and he once a discussion to be about proper things that we all want to know about. they have been talking about each other the whole time, and this is why the monitors are asking questions about what do you think about what the other one said. if on their campaigns they start discussing things that we really need to know about, then those questions would never come up. you askhappening is that all trouble a question and he talks about everything is going to be great, make america great, and it's going to be ridiculous. where does the money come from to do this?

where does the money come from to build a wall? how do you build for it and how do you make america's military stronger and keep being the strongest? where are we going to get the money from? almost a debt that is $20 trillion and nobody is trying to discuss how we will pay for these things. host: we appreciate your calls and your comments. coming up next on washington journal, in the aftermath of the civil unrest in ferguson, missouri, did they have a chilling effect on police and law enforcement? our next guest says yes and we will hear from heather mcdonald from the manhattan institute coming up next. new tests show concern for student achievement in reading and math.

>> all persons having does -- business before the supreme court of the united states. this week on c-span's landmark cases, we will discuss the historic supreme court case of shank versus the united states. in 1917, the united states entered world war i. patriotism was high, and some forms of criticism of the government were a federal offense. charles shank, general secretary of the philadelphia socialist party, handed out and mailed leaflets against the draft. >> this is a flyer produced by charles shank in 1917. 15,000 copies of this were produced and the point was to encourage men who were liable for the draft to not register. the language is fiery, a equates conscription to -- it equates

constriction to slavery. arrested, tried and found guilty under the recently enacted espionage act. shank appealed, and the case went directly to the supreme court. ruled,t how the court weighing the issues of clear and present danger and freedom of speech. our guest includes the cofounder of service block and the professor of history at yale -- professor of history at yale university. that's coming up tonight at 10:00 eastern on c-span, c-span3 and c-span radio. for background on each case, order your copy of the landmark cases companion book. it's available for $8.95 was shipping -- plus shipping. >> c-span has your coverage of the white house 2016, where you find the

candidates, speeches, debates, and most importantly, your questions. we are taking our coverage into classrooms across the country with our student contest, giving students the opportunity to discuss what important issues they want to hear the most from the candidates. follow c-span's student contest and the road to the white house on tv, radio, and online at c-span.org. washington journal continues. host: joining us from toledo, ohio is heather mcdonald. she is here to talk about the effects of policing after civil unrest and rioting in ferguson and other incidents and the state of the criminal justice system. thanks for being with us. guest: thank you so much for having me. in a we saw your article

national review, welcome to post ferguson policing, that you wrote back in august. the term has come into more usage in the past week or two. when you hear the term, when you wrote about it, what did you mean? guest: i meant the fact that police are backing off from proactive policing. the type of discretionary policing that fbi director rightly identified as the key to the historic crime drop that this nation has enjoyed over the last 20 years. these are the type of discretionary stops going up as director, he said 1:00 a.m. on a drug corner, somebody seems to be hitting up a gun and getting out of your car and asking if you questions. police are not backing off of mandatory responses to 911 calls.

do theircontinuing to duty, but the type of proactive policing that has been the target of a lot of police protest over the last year, officers are backing away from that. host: the fbi director picked up on the term as well and comments just a week ago in chicago, i wanted to play some of those for you and get your thoughts. >> in today's youtube world, officers are elected to get out of their cars and do the work that controls violent crime. butcers entering 911 calls, avoiding informal contact that keeps bad guys standing around with guns. i spoke to officers privately who described being surrounded by young people with mobile phones held high, taunting them when they get out of their cars. they said to me, we feel under siege and we don't feel like getting out of our cars.

i have been told about a senior police leader in this country rememberd his force to that political leadership has no tolerance for any of you being involved in the next viral video. the suggestion, the question that has been asked is, are these kinds of things changing police behavior all over the country? is that what explains the map and the calendar? younger movingly, his

work in richmond virginia, removing drug dealers from the streets and allowing that community to flourish because of proactive policing.

host: heather mcdonald, you wrote international review piece back in august about the reluctance of police to act and you set the reluctance is affecting police across the country from cap exhaustive public order maintenance is vilified as racist in baltimore following riots and the rest of -- officers arrests dropped i wanted to ask how you are tracking evidence of these post ferguson affects that effects -- effects. crime they post not just data, but they post the on police enforcement activity.

what we are seeing is a big drop-off in precisely the type of proactive enforcement that director call me rightly said is key to bringing crime down. in new york city, all arrests are down 15% as of this year, compared to the same time last year. life -- these are the discretionary low-level public order enforcement like if somebody is standing on the corner publicly drinking. if you allow that to keep going night, -- turns -- inmping, trespassing, los angeles, arrests are down 10%, this is a drop-off in discretionary activity that works in opposite directions

from public safety. when officers back off, criteria to the claim that black lives matter, the result is not a healthy -- a healthy on. for law-abiding residents of the inner city who want the police and need them, the result is the type of bloodbath that direct -- the director said is happening in cities across the country when you've got homicide spikes up to 75% in milwaukee. 50% in baltimore, 60% in st. louis. are actims overwhelmingly minor -- are minority males and that is something that should concern all of us. host: some disagreement in the administration. president obama and his fbi

director are sparring over whether the ferguson effect is let's hear from our viewers and go to thomas in maryland who is in law enforcement. go ahead. caller: i have been a police officer for five years. i cannot tell you the name of my agency due to the fact that i have to worry about. -- retaliation -- worry about retaliation. am -- i wasy, i shown a 32nd clip about one of my coworkers had the media and protesting and people treating officers like he was racist. on this particular occasion, we received a call for service for a robbery in progress. officers responded to the scene and a video clip that people observed, you see just a young

-- we have to respond and handle that call for service. woman later investigate and found out -- when we later investigated and found out the call was not a robbery in progress but the person was worried about getting robbed, which is a very dramatic -- dramatically different thing. of course, the young man was sent on his way. officersff with police approached him and told him to stop. that situation became the next ,hing people in the streets stopping traffic, protests and yelling and screaming. it has created a situation where he have police officers who i included, whoelf

may not necessarily do that extra proactive police work out of worrying about getting in job, at theing your end of the day, i still have to take care of myself and my family. host: we appreciate your experience, heather mcdonald, what are you hearing? guest: i'm hearing what i hear from police officers across the country. what is happening in the city areas now is very disturbing. i think we are seeing a breakdown of the legitimacy of law and order. officers face extraordinarily hostile environments when they are engaged in trying to help people. i spoke to an emergency services officer in the bronx who was trying to extricate it woman who had been pinned under an overturned car accident accident -- after an accident.

somebody walked up to the scene and stuck his phone and the officers face to bait him into an argument and when the officers told him to get back, the man said you cannot do that. in cincinnati in july, there was a four-year-old girl who, in a drive-by shooting, was shot in the head. officers came to the scene and started trying to make arrests for outstanding warrants in order to prevent a retaliatory shooting. instead, the officers were surrounded by angry crowds shouting profanities at them, preventing them from making arrests. this happens again and again. it is putting everybody's lives -- says that cops are racist for acting on their good-faith observation of

suspicious behavior, it's going to result in more use of force. the justice department has absolutely, explicitly factor in that the most determining whether an officer uses force is how the civilian response. and with more and more people resisting arrest, we are in a vicious spiral, where officers will be provoked to use force them selves, thereby fueling what i think is a not fair discourse about policing. host: let's hear from in texas. caller: good morning. say thatuld like to officers do have to give respect. when they manhandle a teenage

girl in texas and she is wearing a bikini and she is being thrown around. virginiathis girl and and they slide her across the floor, what do you expect them to do? he didn't have to put a hand on the girl. the man in texas -- the girl was wearing a bikini. why is he sitting on her back? you have a few bad officers who are making bad calls. they need to be held accountable when they do something wrong. hold them accountable, prosecute them. host: heather macdonald. officers is right that need to be courteous and respectful and too often they are not. developed ae

hardened attitude in part because of the hostility that they have encountered on the streets. when they do make a mistake. there is no question that they need to be held accountable. and i would think that this will policer way in easing community tensions if the police could be more respectful. but these videos represent a minute fraction of the police civilian encounters every year. police officers have 20 million encounters with civilians in new york city alone. unfortunately, some of those are not going to be a perp you. but the discourse -- some of those are not going to be appropriate. but the discourse has taken aim at the entirety of policing and says that somehow, the police in every jurisdiction have developed racist attitudes, with

her they are black or white. that is simply not the case. what the black lives matter discourse has tried to keep offstage is crime rates. remain sos disproportionate between intercity neighborhoods and the rest of the country that, that is what drives the police -- and if they want to save lives, they're going to be more heavily deployed in minority neighborhoods where they will have more encounters. to what is alleged incorrectly of over pollution is to bring crime down. and until we can do that, police -- policing remains the best solution to help people save lives. i go to police community meetings every -- meetings all the time.

june, in elderly woman spontaneously broken out and said, it is so wonderful when we see the cops, they are my friends. amputee who cancer said the only time she felt comfortable to go into her lobby was when the police were there. she said please jesus, send more police. these are the types of requests that the police get and are hearing and people are asking for assistance. for help withg the drug dealing, and the irony is that, as the milwaukee police chief said many times, the respond to those heartfelt calls for assistance without generating the aclurtionate -- that the

or parts of the justice system can use against them in a racial profiling lawsuit. host: we will go to ronald in california. welcome. caller: i would like to ask the --ng lady -- she said that does it have anything to do with the overwhelming amount of guns that are in the neighborhoods? or with the lack of education? does it have anything to do with unaccountability in the police departments? i would like to know how the so-called good police are handled? when we saw the guy shot in the he pickedlso saw that up a gun and he placed it by the body. host: similar comments on , he says it is our right as citizens to make sure the police are doing their job appropriately. we do not live in a police

state. is nonald says there system evidence for the ferguson effect and the fbi director and this guest know it. police have tohe be held accountable. the walkers got -- the walter scott shooting was an abomination. and it recalls the fact that polices a horrible history in this country. thee is no question that police were able work of slavery and segregation that listed way too long, and this country took a long time to wake up. a lot of people today continue to see policing through that lens and it is understandable. but the fact of the matter is that police has never been more

-- that policing has never been more professional. the police are going where people are being victimized and that is in minority communities. brooklyn,d recent in the per capita shooting rate is 81 times higher than in bay ridge, brooklyn, which is just a few miles away. that means the people in 81% higher face and chance of getting shot. the police cannot respond to that without being more heavily deployed in minority neighborhoods. as for the charge that there is no evidence for the ferguson effect, i simply disagree. the evidence is the drop-off in discretionary activities. that is empirically documented. you can hear it from officers and does the director commie

talked to police officers and chiefs across the country and that is what they are telling him, anecdotally. your guess is heather macdonald. she is talking about the ferguson effect on police officers. we go next to north carolina to hear from james. good morning to the guests and the c-span host. heather macdonald is about to make my head explode. i've going to make a short story. i was a police officer in the early 1980's for quarter years. for four years. the first night i went out with my training officer, he asked what we called a nightstick.

i'm going to tell you, we call a --knocker.a i wasn't going to stay in law enforcement. -- it is a want more prevalent than you want to knowledge. racism is precisely what it is. the police chief should be removed. his decisions are directly in contradiction to his thoughts. he is fueling more division between the police and african-americans in the community. you have 200 years of racial tension between police and the black community. host: thank you for your call. what he was told by his

field training officer is appalling. i would hope that that attitude has changed. i do believe that it has area believe it is even close to her police are trained today. and the officers that i have spoken to in the academy and those on the street say they are there because they want to help. we believe fervently in the good people of the community and we are there to try to try to protect them from a much higher rate of crime than people in other communities have to live with. historyre is a 200 year of unequal treatment in this country. but until we get crime rates down, you are going to have heavier policing in minority

communities and the reason they are there is because people ask them to be there. again, go to police community meetings. there are kids who are hanging out, hundreds of them, fighting, eating each other up, why can't you arrest them for loitering? the police are torn between those types of requests for enforcement and more intensive policing and then the africans who get their hands on the data that is generated by those types that the claimed police are racist. should be racist cop fired from the force but they do not represent the majority of police officers. the director was working incredibly intensively in

richmond, virginia and he set the people that he worked with that every dealer they got off the streets was a good thing. host: heather macdonald, you have written about another law enforcement issue. president obama today will be talking about his proposals on criminal justice reform. we will cover that, it is a 4:15, eastern. the headline of usa today, obama pushes for second chances. towill use a halfway house call congress to pass a bipartisan drill -- bipartisan

bill. a number ofed on executive actions to give offenders a second chance area did what is your response to reduce the number currently in jail? all sentences are arbitrary. i am not necessarily opposed to reducing the federal sentence is. eerie --offenses offenses. i am more concerned about is the discord that pervades the discussion of incarceration. wrong when hea is has been going around the country for the last year, claiming that the criminal justice system treats lax and whites differently. been the -- of the

criminology profession for the last two decades. up in every day. every single time. lax in prison is a direct effect of the black crime rate. blacks commit homicide at eight times the rate of whites and hispanics combined. and 11 times the rate of whites alone. -- we could put an end to the discourse that says we have been involved in some kind of racial

minority communities. again, i think the director spoke extraordinarily eloquently about the fact that there is no such thing as mass incarceration. ,very person who is locked away they have received do protection of the law and they were found to be guilty and they were gotten off the streets. and that effort for incarcerated offenders is a contribution, along with proactive policing, to the 50% drop in violent crimes. we are now at risk of losing these -- host: let's go to john in florida. caller: i have a question. why is the united states the

only country in the world that doesn't use water cannons? they should have used that in ferguson. it would have controlled the rioters. in there have put dye to apprehend the losers in the stores. guest: that is something completely out of my knowledge. i was not persuaded by the that the police were responsible to -- responsible for writing by responding with riot tactics. as i'm concerned, if you are going to destroy someone's livelihood and earn down stores and take away the hard-earned andstment of entrepreneurs destroy the livelihoods of employees, you don't get to choose the tactics that are used against you. it is absolutely incumbent on

the police to preserve law and order when writing threatens the very civilization that we take for granted. of course, the police should not use lethal force, but they certainly have the obligation to respond with whatever it takes to prevent people's livelihoods from being destroyed. caller: good morning. , she said thaton the police enforcement are and peopleir people have cell phone cameras and now people don't want to get out and perform their duties. -- but iery last year remember last year, they had and they had snipers , and ice enforcement

don't member people saying that we weren't going to go deal with them, so are you saying that police are more afraid of a cell phone camera and having rifles trained on them? is -- i amirony puzzled by the massive opposition to the idea of the ferguson affect by advocates. policing is political. and the police have heard the message. it has been sent loud and clear. that's proactive policing is racist and they are doing less of it. which is precisely, i would think, what the black lives matter movement would want. that they are frightened of cell phone videos, theuch as the fact that political class and the elite have embraced the idea that

policing that responds to community demands for requests, response to demands for public order on the street is somehow oppressive. so they are saying, fine. we will go back to the type of reactive policing that merely response to 911 calls after the that was responsible for the crime increase we saw in the early 1990's. the head of the detectives union in new york city told me that the type of policing was easy. you wait for somebody to be victimized and then you go out in your car and take a police report. he harder thing is to prevent -- the hardernd thing is to prevent crime before it happens. that is what officers are not to the same degree today. and we are seeing it in some

cities, we have seen triple digit increases in homicides and shootings. suspects are overwhelmingly young black males. host: what is the recommendations they made was about police adopting a guardian mindset. they said that law enforcement to buildopt a mindset public trust and legitimacy. toward that end, police should adopt procedural justice as the guiding principle for policies and practices to guide their interactions with the citizens they serve. what do you think about that recommendation? to me, this is stating the obvious. it is stating what i hear from officers all the time. that the to make sure

elderly woman can get to the post office to pick up her social security check without being worried about being shot by a drive-by shooting or by getting bangers who are retaliating for some mindless turf dispute. what i hear from officers all the time is the sense that we are trying to protect the community and give them the same freedom of movement and freedom from fear that people in more wealthy communities take for granted. at the source of police legitimacy is being able to provide that protection. veryes ago, there was a horrible attitude of police that, well, we are not going to try very hard to fight crime in minority

neighborhoods because that is the situation that prevails under -- prevails and there is nothing they can do. the policingo revolution that focuses police relentlessly on where crime patterns are breaking out and do to a mindset change in policing crimeays, we can stop before it happens, the police do focus on minority neighborhoods. why? does they want to save lives.

host: dave in tallahassee. he is calling from the law enforcement line. caller: thank you for c-span. i was a training officer for years. ofare creating a wave problems that is going to be very pervasive for a long time. are backing away, they do have to. been eating with officers theyre active officers and are backing away. everybody is coming after them. they make an arrest and they get attacked for it. it makes it extremely difficult, they are raising officers up,

training them and then the officers are trained with that attitude. and it is really going to cause problems in the future. i am afraid for the community. it is a horrible situation. guest: dave is right. -- by the obama administration for speaking the truth, the president is accusing the keeper of the nation's crime data of cherry picking data and using anecdotes. the director than anybody else what is happening in crime across the country. and he has direct access to officers.

really something that is irrefutable. that officers are backing up and the result is higher crime. the result is also going to be a loss of police legitimacy. i don't know what the police are supposed to do. they go to community meetings they want a police watchtower. i went to a meeting in the bronx where they begs the officers to install a police watchtower because the shootings were so bad. the man said that every time i hear a shooting, i go running towards it because i'm fearful that my children have been killed. this is a reality that people in the inner-city live with. that the new york times and keepers of the racist cop narrative don't have a clue about. if they did, if they had to worry about their kids getting

shootings, they would be demanding precisely the type of proactive policing that is responsible for the 50% drop in crimes that the nation has experienced over the last two decades. macdonaldher mentioned obama's meetings before the chief of police in chicago. >> for the remainder of the time in this office, i will do everything i can to encourage participation and work hard to make sure that the work that is being done by law enforcement is appreciated and supported. but, in order for us to do that, we do have to stick with the facts. what we can't do is cherry pick data or use anecdotal evidence

to drive politics or to feed political agendas. if we stick with the facts and communication, then we will continue the hard work that you and so many law enforcement officers have made over the past few decades to save lives and keep families intact. let's get a couple more quick calls for heather macdonald. go ahead. caller: good morning. isant to say that your guest illustrative of the disconnect between whites and african-americans in this nation. all of her comments are illustrative of her ignorance and the cocoon environment for the reality. -- aade the statement couple of statements that were striking. one of the things that she said

was that president obama was completely wrong when he said injustice andan in the judicial system in this nation. that is absolutely a striking statement. everyone knows there is unfairness in the criminal justice system in this country. you even have a case now of a judge in one of the states because he throughout all white juries. she also made the statement that there is 200 years of history. there is 730 years of history, heather. history of redlining discrimination and oppression and police brutality. your statements today make it absolutely more dangerous for police because you are discounting the victims and you

are telling us that what is going on today is a figment of our imagination. you have said that blacks are eight times more likely to commit a crime band whites and everybody else. when you cocoon a people into a corner, i suggest to you that a police being afraid of cell phones, you are bringing people to a critical mass. when weday is coming won't believe in anecdotal statements. host: a response? guest: it is simply not the case, the evidence does not show that the criminal justice system is racist. notwithstanding the fact that president obama has been reasserting that message. in fact, one study of the justice department looks at felony prosecutions in 75 of the largest urban counties and found that blacks were less likely to be prosecuted following an

arrest for a crime. they were more likely to be given a prison sentence but that reflected the fact of the severity of the crime. and the criminal history. prosecutions were less likely to be brought. most liberalhe criminologists in the country have looked at this matter and have concluded that the proportion of blacks in prison represents their race of criminal offending. it is not police who is making up this crime data. it is the victims and witnesses to the crimes. in new york city, victims and policees report to the that blacks commit over 75% of the shootings even though they are less than 23% of the population. again, this is not the police making this up. this is when there is a shot

fired and the police come to the scene and they get from the witnesses the suspect description. whites are 35% of the population and they commit less than 2% of the shootings. so that means that when police are going to shooting scenes to prevent a retaliatory shooting, they are going to minority neighborhoods. i don't choose that. they hope against hope when they get a shots fired call over the radio that they are going to be called to a scene and they will beat told that it is a white shooter. that almost never happens. policing today is driven by the incidences of crime. and that crime is happening in inner-city communities. march 11 this year, two officers were shot at during a ferguson protest.

and the protesters were called for the entire police department resignation. a boy was called by a straight -- a boy was killed by a stray bullet and nobody protested that killing. few people in america even know his name. but those types of heart-wrenching tragedies keep happening in inner-city communities and that is why the police are there. heather macdonald is an attorney and a fellow with the manhattan institute, joining us this morning from ohio. you can read more online. thank you for being with us. guest: thank you so much. host: here on washington journal, we will next turn our attention to school test scores. we will be joined by aggie becky pringle. later on, in our weekly money

segment, the discussion on the sustainability of medicare. ♪ >> tonight on the communicators, california representative, the top democrat on the subcommittee, discusses how congress should discuss cyber security and data breaches. she is joined by case a merlot. whatat i'm struck by is analysts have been struck with. ,here are two main colors

relative to cyber security, that need to be honored. breaches areese jude to two factors. a lack of hygiene in the system and a lack of security management. >> tonight at 8:00 eastern. a signature feature of book tv is all they coverage of book fairs and festivals across the country. here is our schedule beginning this weekend. we will be in that you sits for the boston book festival. middle of the month, the louisiana book festival. at the end of november, we are live for the 18th year in a row in florida for the miami book fair international. and the book awards in new york city. just some of the festivals in

this fall on c-span2 tv. c-span has your coverage of the woe to the -- the road to the white house 2016. you will find the speeches, the debates and your questions. this year, we are taking it into the classroom with our student contest. -- thestudents the can't opportunity to discuss what they want to hear the most from candidates. tv, theur coverage on radio and online at c-span.org. announcer: washington journal continues. pringle is the vice president of the national education association. she is joining us now to talk about testing policy, the test results were released last week

across the country. let's talk broadly about this. what is the national education association view on the fourth and eighth graders? guest: well, i am a middle school science teacher. the most important part of that sentence is that i am a teacher. i give tests all the time, i love tests. at the challenge that we find with educators around the country is the purpose of tests. roles tozed tests have play, but in this country, we have had such an obsession with standardized testing that we now know that we are over testing our students and we're using the tests for making high-stakes decisions and they were not created for that situation. they are used for teachers to

inform the practice. they ensure that every student is learning at the level that we expect for all of our kids. host: you mention you are it a teacher, 31 years as a middle school teacher. how have you seen standardized testing change? guest: wow. [laughter] guest: a lot. are some of our students spending upwards of 10% of their time and taking the test, preparing for test, taking benchmarks for tests. practicing, playing games to get ready for the tests, and so much focus is on the test and it is taking away the love of teaching .nd learning we find our students are exhibiting signs of stress because they know that the tests

are having such high consequences on whether they are going to fourth grade. host: in terms of the long-term role, when kids get to high school, they are faced with important test. how do you prepare their earlier for that? of takingnevitability those tests that will determine where they go to college? we took the sats and we didn't need all of the tests that are going on right now. it isn't that we are seeing that there isn't a role for the test, there are, but we have to make sure we aren't over testing our students and taking away the time for our students to learn. we want to make sure that we are thecontinuing to spend billions of dollars on the testing industry instead of making sure that our students have counselors and the opportunities to put his fate in

in bandtwo participate and school nurses. we are breaking up our phone lines in little bit differently. 202parents, the number is teachers, 202 748 , and if any students are 748 8003.202 last week, the headlines across the country said that the obama administration calls for limits. here is that the education secretary had to say. >> the goal of high standards is hugely important. the standards that many states

adopted you to no child left behind has had devastated -- devastating impacts. we absolutely believe in high-quality assessments. i will come back to that. we believe in meaningful accountability. aboute to talk achievement gaps. we are talked about the students who are not being treated well. about who isk making progress and who is not. what we don't believe then, are redundanty and assessments. that doesn't help anyone. ways what are the other that secretary duncan mentioned on determining who is failing and who is not? of metricsave lots that we try to use to determine whether students are being successful.

he talked about accountability for schools and states. so we are looking at multiple measures to determine that. butdardized testing is one, we also need to take a look at whether students are successfully completing higher level math and science courses. if they even have access to the courses. there are students who go to schools where they don't have physics. ap physics. host: is that because teachers are not available? guest: that is part of it. but they don't have the resources available to have science labs. one of the things we are looking at is to make sure we have students there -- we have teachers there. partnershiping in a to make sure that teachers and students have access to the

courses that are gateway courses to college. we are working to train more math and science teachers from our core of teachers. host: we have a teacher first step. im from ohio. caller: good morning. actualreat to have an teacher talking about actual classroom things. it usually seems to be politicians or administrators who haven't spent a whole lot of time in the classroom. startedd taking -- i teaching seventh-grade science in 1986. that i went to high school physics and college physics. i grew away from some of the students. when i started, we

did have quizzes and tests every week to grasp the material and be in was lucky enough to a school with lab science. students had their own notebooks and we did labs that i came up with. we had enough of the budget to get some materials. and recently, if i can go about one more minute, i will talk about stem education. about the college i went to and there were only a handful of people being trained to be secondary science teachers. so i began a scholarship program in my area to fund people who wanted to become seventh-grade-12 grade teachers.

it seems that most of the students in that area lean towards i.t.. thank you so much for putting a teacher on c-span. thank you so much for putting a teacher on c-span. guest: thank you and thank you for your activism. you are actually correct. we need to do more individually to make sure that we have enough .s teachers -- when they have the choice, whether they were going to continue to take math and science, they need to have the choice to do that. we need to make sure that we have the newest tools and technology and equipment so that they can have a love of science and they will continue to pursue it. here we go, on the

administrators line in florida. go ahead for becky pringle. caller: yes, i'm am very pleased to have a teacher on. as an administrator and a teacher, i am delighted to hear that -- is bridging the gap in teacher education. one of the things i want to talk about is the policy on testing. florida has been the epicenter of beginning this testing model. governor,ush was the he carried the ball and started the coke brother funded association to bring in fca itng called s cap --

grades schoolst. and it gives funding based on test scores. as you stated earlier as a science teacher, and as i know teaching, we do train teachers to give lesson plans and to create testing and syllables. time,ce the beginning of we have had teachers developing tests. we have been using that value of teachers plans and testing models and it has created scientists and architects and doctors. so i am not sure where it is that a politician can get the value to be able to come in and create no child left behind, which in fact was a political test. from my understanding in

florida, with the administrative standing up against the test and parents opting out. we had millions of parents opting out. that is what we need to continue to advocate. charlotte, thank you for your input. we will get comments from our guest. yout: i am really glad that talked about parents and educators and administrators. community members are coming together and they are saying, stop the over testing and stop using these tests to punish our kids and our schools. and quite honestly, to blame our educators. we are very pleased that the obama administration has come out forcefully against over testing. we are hopeful that they will take the next step -- the first step. we have decouple the high-stakes

testing with their high-stakes consequences. we have to make sure that tests being given are not only pull back in the amount, not only addressing what you talked about in terms of the purpose of the tests and the quality of the test, that we also have to make sure that we are not using these tests in a way that ends up corrupting what it means to teach and learn. and that is what is happening right now. parents are saying enough. twitter, -- tweaks that one of the biggest problems with the test is that it holds back the inquisitive and motivated students. -- has been a problem in education for a long time. this is the tipping point that has finally gotten it addressed. kids howoesn't prepare

to live in society. it does not teach kids how to get and hold a job. guest: i could not agree with that more. to be honest with you, the group of kids that it hurts the most are the students -- the students who, more than likely, are being subjected to these tests and drills through the day more often than others. we know what is going to happen with that. they are not being taught 21st century skills around medication , literacy, critical thinking skills. they enable to solve problems and work together -- those are skills that have fallen by the wayside. skillstudents need those in schools. ofy cannot be the kinds

thoughtful problem solvers that we need them to be when they all -- when they enter the workforce, because they will be solving problems that we don't even know what they will be. that theyon drilling are subjected to is not going to prepare them for what they need. host: cheryl is a parent in california. that morning. caller: good morning. from my observation being in the school system, what i hear from the students is that they are unable to correlate what they theyearning with -- what are learning at their age level with understanding. son in chemistry, and one of the kids, they were

studying, and they looked at the tv and, they said i'll just take the tv and it'll be a nucleus. and he said, oh, i never thought of it that way. so what i hear in this age group is that they don't correlate withthey are learning age-appropriate cognitive skills. with the different grades can incorporate something together so that all of the kids in that age group will understand it. they are creative people. listening to him and his friends is amazing. host: thank you. any thoughts? guest: they are very creative, please -- creative, we see that every day. we want to make sure that as our students are learning, they are learning collectively and collaboratively. but they are also learning based

on what it is that ties the content to reality. because it is not just about learning facts and figures. it is about understanding why they need to lea that. how they can use these problem-solving skills for the future. so that is exactly what we want to focus on and what we don't have the time to focus on because of the focus on toxic testing. secretary iscation stepping down, and his nominee is john king. he spoke recently about why the testing policy in the u.s. should get a second look. >> i come at this from a perspective of being a teacher and a principal, with a sense that, the key question is, how do you establish the right

balance? there is no question that testing that is well can give good information to parents about how they are doing and about how to improve instruction for teachers and two students for how they are progressing towards college. low-level,clear that poor quality assessments can distract from good instruction. they don't provide useful information. they get in the way. the good news that we call out in the plan over the weekend is that we have states all across the country that are moving towards higher quality assessments. states have created better testing that require more writing and problem solving and critical thinking. clear with conversations with parents and educators and from this report that there are places where there is too much testing and

too much testing that is low-quality. deputyhat is the education secretary, now the nominee. speaking about the change in education and testing. up, they are calling for tests that are worth taking. ,, fully transparent to students and parents. they want to use tests as just one of multiple measures and they want to try it to improve learning. what do you do in the short term? testing scores have dropped. guest: a couple of things. i could not agree more with what he said. -- i wanted to

make sure that we had a chance to talk about resources. money, time and the people necessary to make sure these kids can do well. the results that you are referencing, we did see a slight decreasing in the math and science scores. when we take a look at the trend of the new scores from the early 1990's, they are increasing and it does continue to do that. but we do need to take a look metric does one drop a little bit.

we need to take a closer look and find out why that is. we began the obsessive focus with no child left behind. the consequences because of the testing -- we need to take a look at that to find out the impact. one more thing i want to bring up, last september, and you we reached a this, historic landmark in our public schools. over 60% of our students attending our public schools -- we can no longer ignore the impact of poverty on whether or not all of our kids get access and opportunities and the support that they need to be successful. so we need to take a look at all of those data points to see what is happening and what has changed in the last couple of years. and also what we need to do differently. bring in the

headlines on those testing. both fourth grade and eighth grade students scored lower in science and mathematics. is eliza, she is on the administrator line in south carolina. good morning. caller: good morning. as a teacher and an administrator, i would like to share something about testing. teacher, i didn't know what was going to be on the tests. we would hope that teachers don't know what is going to be on the tests. how tought skills about test and i tried to cover the whole spectrum of all of these skills. it makes a difference in the classroom with students.

poverty, ander in many of the students were behind. but we worked and worked and they and i took great pride in .he progress that they made they did test well. so that is what i would like to say about the teaching of testing. were not uptight about testing. they were going to put down what they knew and that is what the test was asking for. i helpedinistrator, the teachers keep records of the tests that they would take during the year between the tests. we did a lot of assessing. not testing so much as assessing so that we would know where

every student was. host: thank you for sharing your experience. guest: the teachers should know what is on the test. not that they should know the exact questions, but one of the things that we have found over the last few years is that we have test that are teaching something completely different. that is not fair to the students . it is really important that the teachers know what the standards are and what the students are supposed to know and be able to do. so every assessment that is is a locallyr it developed assessment or a standardized test, the teacher should know. host: a few more minutes with becky pringle. we are talking about student testing and the change in administration following some of the recent result with fourth-graders and eighth graders. , it is our conversation

202 748 8000 four teachers. him involved as a teacher calling tomorrow teachers line. i would like to mention to miss pringle that in my opinion from what i've seen is that kids tend to plateau in those higher math and science skills. a lot of the schools have pushed that particular agenda to the point where other skills that keep a kid interested in school are going begging, i.e. music and art. those kinds of things that really round out a citizen. we are also training citizens here. the highll you that

skills that you are teaching our plateau for the majority of kids and if everyone is went to be a high math genius or a high science genius, that would be a minimum wage job in our society. we need to keep those smart kids in our school instead of having a brain train out, which we have in the state and particulate and the private schools and i know that is true in other states. kidsd to get these together and socialize and understand what life is about as opposed to what a vector is about. you know what i mean? i think you do. these high skills are just a plateau for most kids. if we need to make this a general education, in my opinion, and more of a factor in turning out a good citizen, i must also say that there is

plenty of money and the schools. coststhe administrative that are usin eating the schools up. there is just not enough devoted to the education process in the classroom. thank you. guest: let me begin with the last statement there. there is not plenty of money in the schools. since the recession, we have seen billions of dollars that were originally in our schools that have gone away. we are very glad that a budget deal is imminent so that we can begin to address some of the cuts to education that have occurred in the last several years. in addition to that, we always have to be focused on making sure that we deal with the inequities across our school systems and that we make sure our students who need the most get the most. i wanted to talk about that.

i apologize. i'm a science teacher so let me start with science. i lead with that and i love it. i want to make sure that we did not create a system where some of our kids do not have access to those higher level math and science courses. the collar was absolutely correct. we want to make sure that we have a rich curriculum so that all of our students have access to music and art. and social studies. those are the kinds of courses that not only we believe create more well-rounded citizens, but we know that different students have different interests and it is really important that all of our schools have access to art and music and physical education, which you know is so important and so many schools are limiting because they are trying to make room for prince harry for the tests or they do not have the funding -- preparing for the tests or they do not have the funding they need. you need to have a real

well-rounded, full, and rich curriculum. host: want to talk about the effort to update the no child left behind law. the chairman of the education committee sent on a headline about how you should stop and think on the over testing problems. he wrote that the president is right about students taking too many tests, but i hope he will stop and think before trying to cure over testing by telling teachers exactly how much time to spend on testing or what the test should be. he writes that "the best way to fix over testing is to get rid of the federal mandates. states what the united and it did when it passed by an overwhelming bipartisan majority , 81-17, legislation to fix no child left behind and get more flexible due to states and classroom teachers to decide which tests to use to see what progress dunes are making." what is their position on that

legislation? guest: with respect of the authorization of elementary and secondary education act or no child left behind, we are looking for them to get it right and we are looking for them to get it done now. you're correct that leaders in both the house and senate are in negotiations right now and we are very hopeful. we are very close to getting a bill to the president's desk, which we hope that he will sign, which we hope will include not only a reduction in the test but most especially, and this is really important, when that legislation was first passed when lyndon johnson was president, the purpose was for the federal government to play a role in making sure that all students have access and opportunity, to fill that gap for those students that were underserved. its role was. with the passage of no child left behind, that was expanded and this testing mania and obsessions, punishing and labeling and blaming and

shaming. that is what we have had the past years or so. what we are saying is that we need to make sure that we l ive up to the original intent. we are calling for a dashboard for states to put forward a plan for students to ensure that they have access to nurses and counselors and support professionals to make sure that ap courses and math and science and social studies are available and that they have arts and music. to make sure that in their accountability plan, they are talking to us about how many student's are going on to college ready. that they are seeing the student exley complete college. we're looking what we call an opportunity dashboard. i should've said this first perhaps. we want to make sure in this reauthorization that the voice of educators are heard because

those of the folks were closest to our students and have a better understanding of what asy and their parents need they know the kind of education that those students must have to be ready for college. to ouret's go back educators like your skin is on the teacher's line in valley springs, california. i really like this discussion because it really hits home with me. i grew up in the 1950's and 1960's through school and i can remember distinctly how school ran back in those days. there was no testing almost whatsoever. when i went through elementary school, we had weekly quizzes. the final report was a report card and you took that home to your parents. that was how you were judged on how you were doing and school.

it was a report card. it was no testing for what you are picking up in school. that went all the way through high school. was never any final tests or anything. it was all quizzes. the teacher would give feedback on how they were doing. toy did not use the quizzes use against students. they used it to help themselves help the students. life, i became a teacher. in the private industry, the computer industry. put the education system there, from thelot of praise whole industry. they thought we were one of the best training organizations. when we had problems with teachers or students, teachers especially, what we would do his

work with the teacher to become a better teacher. host: we appreciate your experience. guest: yes, absolutely. assessments should be only for the purpose of improving learning and improving teaching and focusing on individual students. i will say that one of the things and one of the reasons why the original was passed is that we do have and do have groups of students who are not getting what they need to be successful. sca, we re-authorized want to make sure we do not lose the disaggregation of data for underserved groups, for english language learners, for special needs students. we are to make sure that providing them with the resources and the support that they need to meet the highest standards. basedt they too can excel on the standards we set. we do have to have information

about how all of our students are doing and not just our individual students. it is just the use of that and what we do to make sure students are surrounded with the support for all them to be successful. host: that cholera talked about report cards and they are pretty much daily. a parent can log on and find where their kids are in many school jurisdictions. in terms of the digital divide in terms of internet access for kids around the country, not just in school but at home in particular? guest: we have been fighting the digital divide for over a decade. we know how important -- the federal government in the state government have a role to play in bridging that gap. we know that many of our students do not have access to only to the technology and the tools themselves, but we know particularly in our rural areas across the country that they do not have the bandwidth they need to access the internet and the

way that we do here in the nation's capital. that is something we continue to fight for. testnow that most of the as more andline and more tests are coming on board, you already saw the impact of not having proper tools to be able to give those tests. know thathat, we technology is growing by leaps and bounds every single second. possibly this needs are getting more and more left behind. we have a responsibility to bridge that gap and make sure they are prepared for the world air entering. host: a couple of comets on twitter and a couple of calls. johnson says, star gimme a break on texas if they choose to homeschool or send their child to private school. this one says that common core was devised to make money from constant changes in books and testing. how do you feel about keeping the government out of

schools? shouldn't parents and teachers and principals know best? why do we need the department of education, which we did not have until 1980? a couple of quick thoughts there. guest: the nea actually the department of education. we believe the federal government has a role to play. we actually believe that the parents and the educators and community members who are closest to the students should be making those decisions about what their students need. we should have standards. we absolutely should know what all of our kids throughout the nation should know and be able to do. been a lot there has of backlash around common core for a variety of reasons. i can tell you the same as that have -- standards that have been set have been set with the ideal of the goal in mind that we are providing all persons to reach high standards to develop 21st century learning skills. some problems of course include not having the resources and time to prepare teachers and

common core the state standards. we are try to make sure that happens and we should make sure that they have the standards to meet. what was the other question? [laughter] host: let's hear from a couple of parents. we will hear from chris in palm harbor, florida. caller: how are you doing? i was actually going to say that i'm surprised that we have not heard from parents. we have heard from a lot of teachers and administrators and no parents have come through. i'm glad you got me on. what i like to say is -- first of all, going back, when certain groups did not perform at level, they had social promotion, which was the norm until they determined that certain kids are graduating high school and not being able to read. testing came in to see how the kids were doing and to halt the

teachers responsible. this whole movement to stop testing is 100% to protect the teachers and the teachers union. teaching to the test is nothing more than teaching. if you want the answers to the test so you can give the answers to the students, that is called treating. -- cheating. donethe teachers union has and what florida has done is a great the schools. if they get a d or an effort to consecutive years, the parents of the students have the option to pull their student out of that school and put them in a school that has ac or higher grade. that is not great for schools are teachers. in hillsboro county, the largest school district in the state of florida, i had the honor of taking a class with the chairman of the school board. a couple years ago, they had a similar situation where everybody scored poorly on one of the test. what they did is that they change the test. they pulled out the questions

that people are missing, saying that was not fair. a question i was highlighted is that the kid should not have to know what a camel is. they do not understand what a camel is it they pull that question out so everyone could score higher and everyone to get higher grades and everyone would get their money and be happy. when i confronted the school board member on this issue, her answer to me was that you do not have the right to comment about that. it is our test and we can do with it what we want. host: i will let you go there and we will hear from mr. pringle. have a really important role and was in not only their student's education, but the education of students within their community. i can tell you that we are working very closely with the pta there. they are actually in hillsboro. throughout the country, for all of us, our goal is to make sure that every student not only learns to excel.

we have talked a lot about that. what does that mean? we need to surround them with the support they need to be successful. they need to be sure that they have access to early childhood education. we need to make sure that when they have done everything that we have asked them to do that they go to college without incurring massive debt. we need to make sure that they have support services so that they do not have classes where they are coming to school hungry or that they get the kind of support that businesses a. to use the assessments to understand where the gaps are in learning so that we can fill those gaps and they can meet the high standards that we have from all the. -- all of them. host: let's hear from one more parent. it's stephanie in florida. caller: hi. host: you're on the air. go ahead. aller: i want to make couple points. when you take kids from other countries that are in poverty

more than what kids in the u.s. can even think of come they have failed. say number two, i want to can't they talk to people who have homeschool their children? i know plenty of parents have homeschool their kids and have been facing social. why can't they collaborate with the school systems to find out where the gaps are missing so all students will come up to standards. ? thatoint i want to make is we had a lot of programs. those programs were gone. i feel like jeb bush came in and then he went to run for president. right now, we basically have in smaller towns pem sports. that is it. that is all-in-one to say. -- all i wanted to say. host: the last word. guest: poverty does not keep a student from doing well. we cannot deny its impact.

we cannot deny that too often a child zip code determines the quality of school that they go to or the level of learning that they attain. we cannot ignore that as a factor. we cannot obviously use it as an excuse to not briber students to be successful. we know with the growing number of students who are living in poverty that our schools need more assistance and more help to fill those gaps for the students so that they all have the opportunity to succeed. pringle is vice president of the national education association. you can find them on nea.org and on twitter. thank you so much for being with us this morning. guest: thank you. host: next up is our your money segment. scully, thes calm former head of the centers of medicare and medicaid as "washington journal" continues

on this monday morning. ♪ >> all persons having business before the honorable supreme court of the united states at the notion -- admonished to draw near and get their attention. >> this week on "landmark cases," we will discuss the historic supreme court case of shank versus the united states. in 1917, the united states entered world war i and picture to some was high and forms of criticism of the government or a federal offense. charles shank, general secretary of the federal yield off you -- philadelphia socialist party,

hand out and mailed leaflet against the draft. >> this was the flyer in 1917. 15,000 copies of this were produced. the point was to encourage men who are liable for the draft not to register. the language in this flyer is particularly fiery. it was slavery and calls for every citizen of the united states to resist construction loss. >> he was resisted and tried under the espionage act. he appealed and the case went directly to the supreme court. find out how the court ruled, weighing the issues of clear and present danger and freedom of speech. includets thomas goldstein and beverly gage, professor of history at yale university. that is coming up on the next "landmark cases," live tonight at 8:00 p.m. yo eastern on c-span, c-span3, and c-span

radio. as a companion while you watch, order the book "when marquesas cases."t is -- landmark it is a dollars $.95 plus shipping and handling. >> tonight on "the communicators," they discuss how congress should discuss cyber security and data breaches as well as the upcoming spectrum auction. he is joined by politicos technology reporter. >> what i'm struck by his by what analysts have instructed us as if there are two main pillars relative to cyber security that need to be honored. -- up to 90% of these breaches are due to two factors. a lack of hygiene in the system and a lack of security management. >> tonight at 8:00 eastern on

"the communicators" on c-span2. announcer: "washington journal" continues. our weekly your money segment here on c-span. we do this every monday morning on "washington journal." we take a look at fiscal issues and your money in particular, this time on medicare and medicaid. joining us this time is tom scully who headed the centers of medicare and medicaid are in the george w. bush administration. what did that role an entail? guest: been a long time ago. it was the private medicare advantage. it was a drug benefit, but it's run fornsurance program seniors and the disabled and it's rya running a huge insurance agency could a lot of it's not political.

there's $1.5 trillion in spending this year. host: this a reminder that programs that are available part a, paide are by payroll taxes and helps cover inpatient care in hospitals, part b has most pay premiums and it helps cover doctor services, and parts he covers with most paying premiums and helps cover prescription drugs. this was passed by congress back in 2003? guest: december 2003. projectedtalked about medicare spending. here's the projected for 2015. the net spending is 520 $7 billion. go forward to 2020 and it 688 billion. by 2024, it is $866 billion. how does the program survive at that level of spending? aest: it is been growing at rate like that for a long time. the growth rates have slowed a little bit for a few years for a

variety of reasons. i think it is sustainable emma but it's a massive piece of the federal budget. is growing at a bigger clinton health-care spending on the commercial side of the aca is growing. health care is becoming a massive piece of gdp. some people think that is terrible and others think that is the essential service that people want. we have an aging population that wants health care and i did not think it is going away and we -- keepkeep this thing appear d fixing this. we can probably solve this at 2030. you can look at it either way. you can say that medicare is solid and doing great and that medicare is growing unbelievably fast and out of control. tom scully is our guest. we have separator lines differently. for those of you under 30, there is (202) 748-8000. for 30 years of age, (202) 748-8001. between 51 and 62, (202)

748-8002. older, (202)and 748-8003. as the enrollment gets underway for obamacare for open season, which began yesterday, a piece from "the new york times" from this morning says that state policy stand out in the second year of the affordable care act. they say that two years into the affordable care act that regional patterns are emerging about who has health insurance in america and who still does not. the remaining uninsured are primarily in the south and southwest. they tend to be poor and live in republican leading states. the rates of people without insurance in the northeast in but many midwest, parts of the country obtaining health insurance is still a problem for many americans. they say that medicaid expansion continues to be a huge predictor

of how many people remain uninsured in a given state. we have outlined here and our c-span tv watchers can see that medicaid expansions continue to , but wee predictor almost a month have to because many of state lines are so clear from the uninsured rates alone could look of difference between missouri and illinois, for example. the uninsured numbers are quite high and southern states. the numbers where it grows are in the northeast in 2015. what is the incentive for that growth and medicaid? essentially said that we will federally funded 100% of medicaid growth in any state that wants to do it. the supreme court said it was optional. the states that tend to take federal money, which is 100% now, comes down a little over the years. you can basically expand their coverage to 138% of poverty with all of your lower income people with all federal money. the states of the northeast and the west, basically the blue states, the democratic states

all did it. a couple marginal states like ohio and john kasich got attention for doing that. in there vast folks southern states who do not want to expand the program and they have not done it. it is basically the southern states who are saying we are not doing it. we don't want to spend the money. we will be tied into this long-term entitlement expansion. this up in courts that they were allowed to say no and that is what many have done. given the makeup of southern governors, it is unlikely to change. it is pretty strange that they are of token. it is a massive chancellor of money from the wealthier northern and western states, the two coasts, versus the deep south. notthey are saying they do want to. 100% of money going into lower income states. is fundamentally the pushback from southern conservatives about bigger government and more spending. the aca really, and this is my personal opinion, expending medicaid and taking care of poor people should of been done first.

my complaint about the aca and present obama's plan is that the exchanges covered people before the percent of poverty. you should make an argument that wife don't we cover the poor people first? found thattes, we medicaid to not expand for lower income people. yeah people higher income streams which is 62% of the population getting a subsidy for the health plan. every state has done that and that has happened in every state under the law, yet the lowest income people have been skipped. to some degree, it's a little out of whack. we are skipping poor people in covering higher middle income people. host: we have john waiting in michigan between the 51 and 64 age line. go ahead, john. caller: good morning, mr. scully. i signed up for the affordable and i've been on it for about a year and a half. basically what happened is because i am low income, i get

my medical free. --amounts to $579 a year excuse me, $579 a month at no cost to me. the insurance companies have ofen an incredible advantage the affordable care act. i've not been to a doctor yet. they are stuffing that money in congress hadand if been smart, what they would have you is said to me, look, pay $100 for medicare and by an early and it will cost you $120 a month. instead of the insurance thought getting -- pocketing

$590 a month. the insurance companies are pocketing was left over. [video clip] guest: that's a complex question. , and i think there's an article on the front of "the wall street journal," insurance is a complicated business. essentiallympanies make about a 5% margin in medicare and the exchanges. that shows that most of the insurance companies that get in the exchanges lost money. a lot of the co-ops, the nonprofits, most of them have gone out of business. is been an unpredictable business with new population and it has not been easy. many people like your caller in those unhappy have gotten huge additional benefits. it has helped a lot of people. there is a long way to shake out on this. i think the insurance business is a pretty predictable business. has worked, aca

it's a long way to shake out. buying into medicare before 65 seems to be cheap at $100 per month. are 65 and you are paying $100 per month, that is less than 10% of the true cost of the benefit. buying any earlier, disguises any subsidies. aca has lots of subsidies for the gentleman like that, i think the aca is a great benefit. maybe too many people are getting a benefit. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015] host: from "the wall street journal" -

is 7.5% a big jump? [video clip] medical costst: are not going up. people came into the new market early in underprice their premiums. in and underprice their premiums and lost money particularly co-ops. many were funded by the government about half of them have gone under. many states are trying to get beneficiaries early on and came

up with a low price that was cost way above their premium collections. youou are in a business and lose money, you raise prices so that's what's happening. of calls and have gotten broken down by different ages. jacksonville, -- albuquerque, new mexico, dave, go ahead. caller: i have a question on the drug coverage. why did the drug companies get the highest price drug coverage and we were not able to get generic prices? or thegress get paid off drug -- by the drug companies and you guys went along with it t? in gettings involved it together, we designed it e intoily to help mov generic drugs.

13.5 million people who are lower income seniors paid basically no co-pay. we put in thesons copayments is seniors are smart and sensitive and when they realized they could not take lipitor or it switch to something else, they did in big numbers. of thatirst two years drug plan being in place, the generic utilization from seniors went up 2.5 times./ they started realizing when the money came out of their pocket, they switched. one of the main goals that worked well was to drive people to generic drugs. boughts more drugs being because they have more money to buy drugs which is a good thing. maybe the drug companies one by mass via but there is been a huge change for the drug companies to generics.

mainone of the reasons why part d has come in under cost. is coming in about 60% and medicare part d looks flat for three years in a row. it has been looked as a great competitive success. people always want more benefits and the benefits have been increased. by any reasonable account, it has pushed huge volume away from namebrand drugs into generics. host: here is friend from jacksonville, florida. senior who is transitioning from the affordable care act to medicare because i will be 65 in january. thank goodness, just in time. people are aspiring to be older because of health care. it's true.

i got into the affordable care act last year. and i started up paying a premium of $326. this year, it went up to $529. saying fora notice next year, it will be 720 something dollars. i'm getting into medicare just in time. at any rate, my real question is, i have been looking at my options in medicare. i went to want to those -- i went to one of those representatives. i decided on regular medicare, deductible the high f plan. i have some questions about that plan. can you tell me something about that? guest: it's complicated.

medicare advantage is an option. it has about 32% of the population. you are talking about going traditional medicare and buying a separate medicare part d portion. and then you buy what's called medigap. it is regular insurance and it's not regulated. it's not part of medicare. the one you mentioned is a high deductible and you will pay more copayments and the duck doubles. the main benefit is you can get any dr. you want. if you go out of network you pay more and others but the traditional medical care route

will give you the most flexibility. there are some significant deductibles but it covers most of your costs. up rational but more expensive choice. it gives you more choice but it's probably a rational choice. leastnly, it's the risky choice. you might want to take a look at other plan options in florida. the change in medicare came up in the debate last week. rand paul was asked about what he would do with the current plan. [video clip] >> the main problem with medicare right now is that the average person pays in taxes over their whole lifetime about $100,000. the average person takes out about $350,000.

we have this enormous mitch mass -- mismatch because with smaller families. the last meet whose fault is it that medicare is broken and out of money and social security's broken out of money. i say it's not the altar the republicans and not the fault of democrats, it's your grandparents role for having too many damages. after the war, we had all these kids. now we have smaller families. we so have 16 workers for one retiree and now you have three. it's not working. i have a bill to fix medicare and social security. for both of them, you have to radically raise the age. if you're not willing to do that , you're not serious about fixing either one of them. host: address the map of what rand paul was talking about, three workers for one retiree? guest: he's right and i don't always agree with rand paul. political choices need to be made and they are tough. we need to raise the age to 67.

it's already being raised one month at a time. we should do something like that on medicare. people are living longer and working longer and staying healthier. verybody loves medicare but it is heavily subsidized. the numbers will not work. i think rand paul is totally collect on that view. most democrats and republicans are in agreement about this. that's the number one thing they want to do is raise the retirement age. if you raise it one month at a time, i would probably have to retire at 65. we should have done this years ago. the numbers don't work unless we make an adjustment like that. the number one moving piece is the retirement age.

we have already done so security that way. host: there is pushed back on doing it for medicare. aarp gets people angry about it. the numbers don't add up but it needs to be dealt with. back to calls, eldorado, texas. caller: i'm from indiana. host: go ahead. caller: i have four quick suggestions for c-span and the audience that would reduce the cost of health care and keep people healthier. host: what would one of those be? people who are members of churches can contribute to a fund. the people who could not pay for

their health needs, that cost would be contributed by everybody in their church and they would teach people how to stay healthy. except for one state, if you hare, you don'ts have to pay the penalty for not being in a -- host: do you agree with that? guest: i can't say that i do. host: we have a couple of comments from twitter. is there a cap on fica medicare taxes when they are in the form of stock options? here's another question -- guest: those are two great questions.

there is no cap. everyone pays your entire life but 1.4% from your paycheck. it's matched by your employer everybody pays that. aca, they raise the tax to 2.35%. for anyone who has significant stock options or income over $200,000 for an individual, you pay 2.35% and there is no cap. you willrn $1 million, pay $235,000. if you make $10 million, you will pay more. there is no cap.

weighted toward higher income payers. they pay a bigger tax. there's not that many of them. it was a pretty big tax increase. that was a big financing mechanism. privatizing is something of a talks about. if you look at medicaid which 20 years ago was overwhelmingly run by the states. it was run by the states insurance companies. the vast majority of states have moved to medicaid managed care led by governors. they found it's cheaper for them crosshire kaiser or blue and pay them a margin. over 75% of medicaid beneficiaries are in private but it's been going on for a decade and it's an overwhelming trend.

when i get into the agency in 2% ofmedicare had about people and now it's 32%. it's growing and despite the fact that people don't like private insurance, it's about a 4% margin. both political parties have found that they are better off taking the risk and managing the company's well and having them private insurance because they perform better on the costs come down rather than have state and you'd sees -- state agencies run these. it's been a huge quiet trend toward privatization of these programs as it is. i think it's healthy and is not very political which is good. most and aquatic governors of gone that way and people in congress like medicare advantage. -- most democratic governors have gone that way and people in congress like medicare advantage.

i think it's good for the program. host: let's hear from sparta, tennessee. good morning. caller: good morning. wondering if you've ever seen the documentary that michael moore made called "sicko.' he went around to all the westernized countries in the publicnd they all have health care. it seems to be working in france and england and canada, everywhere else it works. they don't have this problem. ourink the problem is health care system has turned into a wealth care system. it's more about making money than it is about making people healthy. do you have any thoughts on that? guest: i saw it a long time ago but i'm not a fan.

this is a fundamental political debate that's been going on but as been shifting more toward right sector delivery. some people think the government should run these programs. people sit there and figure out what doctors should be paid. they run a giant centralized medicare system. they are wonderful people and do a great job. i don't think that works as well as regulating an insurance company and letting them figure it out. that's been the debate for the last 25 years. are you better off with a single-payer government entity which creates behavioral problems? you get big by them increases and they each doctor the same thing. the other alternative is to hire private insurance companies and give them all the money and the risk and regulate them. let them figure it out in a more

competitive environment. i am strong on the side of thinking the well-regulated site works better. that's clearly where the system has gone the last 10 years and away from the single-payer medicare world. when you look at the results, the results are much better when the treasury is not at risk to its assuming they are well-regulated. host: dorothy in great neck, new york. hello there. caller: yes, good morning and thank you for taking my call. i will be transforming into medicare in february. i just got my card. i have to get my extended care to go with it. right now i have united health care which i love. i'm looking toward humana or united health care for my extended care. then you look at the deductibles and i'm trying to chew something that will give me less the dock doubles because i live in a --

less deductibles because i live on a budget. i have worked all my life and paid into it. right now, it's not what i thought it would be. when i would have to take it which am getting to the point where have to take it. something has happened to it. to the gentleman the gentle man they call before, just so he knows, having health care in the country wherever and gets the same thing, i have friends who lives in great britain, it's not that great. the wait time to get into hospitals is astronomical. i don't know if it would work in this country. i heard what rand paul had to say. i don't have a trouble with the age going up to get it. at some point you'll have to raise the age. for medicare and social security.

guest: i think medicare is the late great deal. my mom is 87 and is going through health care issues. average, some people consume 100 thousand dollars of health care but on average of $15,000 per year. pay about $1500 so it's a 90% subsidized benefit. we pay taxes but that does not come close to paying for it. medicare has flaws like copayments and a dock doubles -- and the dock doubles. -- and deductibles. if you are a lower income senior, she should not have coat -- you should not have co-pays or deductibles. it's an incredibly large subsidy as it should be. i think it works better than it did.

i started working in the senate in 1981 and i think it works that are than it did back then. there are things they don't like. host: this is texarkana, arkansas. go ahead. caller: can you hear me? host: yes, we can. caller: thank you so much for c-span and what you guys do. we appreciate your candor. thank you for that gentle man to answer this question. i have a short story, please bear with me. my daughter was married in palm springs, california and i live in arizona so i flew out there. i met a couple in the early 40's from canada and i asked them about their health care. he says we are in a middle income. taxedy it works is we are

at a rate of 30%. that's what pays for the health care. everyone pays 30% tax and i have free medical care. i have heard horror stories that if you need something done, you have to wait. they said that's just a lie. i said would you trade your health care system for hours. he laughed out loud. they said are you kidding me. absolutely not. we do not understand how your country can operate. you're the wealthiest country on people --t yet your insurance companies and people make money off of people's poor health. studied or has anyone in your office studied how sweden, denmark, canada, england, germany, and france takes care of their citizens.

they are not going under or going broke. they don't have to wait months to see a doctor or whatever. host: thanks for your call. guest: i have studied all of them. you can have that debate. arebetter or worse, we used to high-quality health care. we are used to immediacy and going to any doctor and having wonderful cancer care. most of europe is not close to that. if you get kidney dialysis in the united states, you are covered by medicare immediately. any other country, there is no dialysis. it is a whole different standard of care. our system works pretty well. people's expectations are high. we have built up an infrastructure that is way more sophisticated and other countries and way better. if you want to keep the infrastructure we have come i think it works reasonably well.

we have more options and more expenses and highly qualified doctors. it's there and if you want to keep it up, our system i think is probably better structurally than most others. ofdefinitely have a level health care beyond any country in the world and you have to pay for it. if you don't want to pay for it, you'll get less services. host: let's go to arkansas again. caller: i happen to be a physician. i have gotten into some various arguments. it involves risk pools. you are referring these patients to private insurance companies in the health scheme. it's open and roman and there are no denials, what happens with people with cystic fibrosis who signs up with one company and their risk goes to the

dickens? we know that does not happen with kidney disease because that has been federalized. distorted risk pool like that -- host: we lost him. guest: this is more complicated. one of the fundamental. as if you believe that competitive health plans are better than having the government fix prices, you have to go with risk selection. used to be that insurance youanies -- we used to joke want to avoid sick people. the exchanges, we put in something called risk adjustment. it says if you have a really sick patient, on average, everybody is a 1.0 risk.

marathoner maybe less. if you get the patients coming in, you get different risk scores. general, if aetna gets more sick people and their risks or tends to be 1.2 in the blue cross plan is a 0.9, they get paid differently. it encourages the insurance companies to find six people and cover them because they will get -- to find sick people and cover them because they will get paid for it. we have been working on this for 25 years. it's still being ironed out. in general, it's trying to move foremove the incentive avoiding sick people and only

ensure healthy people. host: your some of what people are saying on twitter -- one mark call from rich in springfield, florida. hello there. spring hill, florida. caller: hi, how are you? skelly forhank mr. his work in medicare. patient.ney dialysis i got very ill and almost died about a year and a half ago. aetna from mym on former employer. it has been incredible. they pay 100% of my dialysis.

i'm going to go into medicare when i'm 65 next may. i have already done my background check. i will go if united health care. again, i want to say thank you. this is one person that it is saving my life. you make united health care happy. host: a final question on quicker -- -- on twitter -- guest: there is wonderful health care quality in every country. i agree but it's nowhere near as much of it or as many specialists. administrator, you go

to a small county in south dakota or iowa or northwest louisiana and they have a nice hospital that's in good shape it to death with good doctors but that does not happen in rural europe. quality in more places and more diverse than anyplace in the world and we pay for that. that's a societal judgment we made. we might have overdone it but it's there. i don't think there's any turning back. if you want to spend time in rural france or belgium, they have nowhere near the care we have. you were in medicare and medicaid for three years? guest: i worked for the first president bush. i'm with a private equity firm in new york right now. i tried to escape from washington 10 years ago but i still live here and work around the country. we are probably the biggest

private investor in health care services. host: thanks for being with us this morning. that will do it for this morning's "washington journal." tomorrow morning 7:00 a.m., enjoy your day. host[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] ♪ ♪ republican presidential candidate jeb bush is releasing an e-book which is a complex net e-mails he sent and received as his time as governor in florida 1999-2007. the book is an attempt to jumpstart the bush campaign. it does not include personal e-mails.