with our student cam contest, giving students the opportunity to discuss what important issues they want to hear the most from the candidates. follow c-span's students camp contest on tv, radio, and online at www.c-span.org. >> this week on "q&a," author and radio host eric metaxas discusses his writing career and best-selling biography of dietrich bonhoeffer. he also talks about his more recent books and the use of religion in politics. brian: eric metaxas, how would you describe what you do? eric: i wouldn't.

would you suggest i try? brian: give it a try. eric: honestly, it is impossible because i am principally a writer. some people know me as the author of the 600 page biography of the german theologian dietrich bonhoeffer. other people know me as a humorist. i was recently published in "the new yorker" making fun of donald trump's bible verses. i am a little all over the place. i now have a radio show in addition to being a writer and writing and speaking a lot. i have a daily radio show from the empire state building where i get to talk to everybody. kind of like your job but higher up in altitude. i enjoy communicating whether in my books or on tv or on the radio.

that is the long version. would you prefer the short version? brian: we can start by going back in history. how far do you want to go? at the prayer breakfast in washington. let's run a little clip of you speaking. eric: people would say who are you going to write about next? i say, whom will you next write? as a yale major i want to say whom. you may want to use the word whom and you can use it as an app. you just download it. whom will you next write? there's only one person besides wilberforce whom i would write. i remember bonhoeffer. and i did write that book. i know it was read even by president george w. bush who's intellectually incurious. he read the book. no pressure.

i just want to say, no pressure. [laughter] [applause] brian: how long in advance did you plan that? eric: as with all of my answers, bold simultaneously. i planned it and i did not. i really thought maybe i would do that. a lot of people think of me as somebody who does comedy. i can be and often am but often i'm deadly serious. i thought i would be standing next to the president speaking to 3500 of the most important people in the world here in

d.c., who knows how i will feel in the moment. i had the idea i might to do that. i thought maybe i would give him the book later. i would use the word chutzpah. if i feel in the moment to pull off the goofiness, i will do it. i had no idea whether i would feel confident enough to joke with the president. turns out i did. i had no idea. i was prepared because i had the books. even that was last-minute. brian: what impact has there been on bonhoeffer now that the president is seen holding it up?

eric: honestly, the book -- and there is no doubt. i have been a writer since i graduated yale and i was the editor of the humor magazine. i had no idea generally, no idea, i would ever write a biography. if you asked me 10 years ago, do you everything you would write a biography? my answer would've been an emphatic no. i believe god has led me into my career to do things i never would have wanted to do or expected to do. that was what i was created to do. the bonhoeffer book was the first hit. it was "the new york times" bestseller and was translated into 19 languages. it will shortly be translated back into english. can we edit that out? i was not used to that kind of success. it was staggering. to go in front of the nation and joke with the president kicked that even higher. since then, i've had numerous people come up to me and say,

some with tears in their eyes, this book has changed their life. it is the life of bonhoeffer, he lived his life. i only wrote about it. it is humbling to me to think that god allowed me the privilege of writing this book about this truly great human being about whom many people do not know anything. and so that opened up the door for me on a number of levels. everywhere i go, people refer to the bonhoeffer book and the one people have usually red. -- read. almost equally, people refer to the prayer breakfast which kind of went viral and was one of the viral things. i'm sure if that happened to you. you do not know what did it. more people saw that than i ever would've dreamt in my life. and it has been used in college courses to talk about public speaking. all of the bizarre stuff and think i want to get through the speech and go home. it opened the door to many things. now, i said i wrote a book on miracles a year ago.

i am really eclectic and i think intentionally so. i do not think i'd know how not to be eclectic. brian: when did god first matter to you? eric: i guess i was raised -- my mom is german from germany and escaped east germany when she was 17. my dad left greece in 1954. they met in an english class here in new york city. i grew up in new york city in astoria, queens. -- if your dad is greek, thewill be raised in greek orthodox church. i never rejected god. i think most greeks, a cultural experience. there is a reference for god and

the things a you really do not understand. by the time i got to college, secular yale and you question things. at least i began to question things. by the time i graduated, i was so confused as to be utterly agnostic. i think maybe that is an oxymoron. i was just lost, wondering what is the meaning of life. most people got really good jobs and you do not have to think about the big questions. being an english major, wanting writer, i drifted. had plenty of time to think about the horrible questions like is life meaningless or whatever. around my 25th birthday, probably the worst year of my life. i had just moved back in with my parents. "he'sre not going to say, himself," they are going to say, find yourself a job and get out. we put you through yale with our menial jobs. my parents really -- you know -- they gave me so much love.

but that year i was so miserable. how do graduate from yale with an english degree and flounder around like an idiot? i have a dramatic conversion experience. it was one of the things you read in a book. very dramatic. i did write about in my miracles book. you think it will happen to somebody else. it was the summer of 1988. since then for good or ill, i have been someone who has no doubt of the statement that god is real and he loves us and has a plan for us. even though there is evil and suffering in the world, that is not his first points. -- that is not his first plan and he is here to be with us in the midst of it. it has informed virtually everything in my adult life. i hope always will do. brian: when did you first connect god and politics? eric: almost immediately. i voted for dukakis and jesse jackson. and i thought to myself, well, i think i misread the democratic party. for people more politically liberal, most of them in their heart is in the right place. no doubt about it. mostly conservative have to see that, right?

but i do feel them that -- feel when i looked at it logically, those policies do not seem to me to be working. in fact, they seem to be harming people. the issue of life, the issue of the unborn, a number of things that fairly quickly within a year of this conversion made me change my political thinking. but, i am not a political activist. my hero, wilberforce, culture is upstream of politics. what happened is people who are serious christians, evangelicals, they figured out that they need to get serious about politics. to say it does not belong me, it is ridiculous. as long as people are suffering and there is injustices, we need to be active. the problem is serious christians put all of their eggs in a political basket which is fully. the culture itself, especially the one which we live is more powerful or equally important to politics.

in my wilberforce book, i write about wilberforce who is a politician and understood cultures equally important. you can pass all of the laws you want. you have a bully pulpit especially if you are the president but you need to understand it is the culture, truly for good or ill, that shapes us before we get to the voting booth and while we are voting, it is something we have to take seriously. important for everybody to take politics seriously and at least

to vote. but never to make what we christians would call an idol of politics. there are people who have done worshipinge sort of that idol rather than the god who caused them to care for the poor and injustices. it is a fine line. something i talk about fairly often. brian: has there been a politician you can name a whole you think misused god in campaigning? eric: well -- nobody that -- nobody that pops into my head at the moment. i think politician --

brian: when do you say, when you're watching the political campaign, "that is baloney"? i am talking about the whole relationship with religion. the republican side or democratic side. eric: i say both. it is -- patently humorous that joe biden and nancy pelosi would talk about being catholic where they reject the most central teachings about the unborn, about sexuality. i could say the thing about mario cuomo. the point is, no one says you're not supposed to love those with whom you disagree. in fact, if you are a catholic or any type of christian, you know you are commanded to love those whom you disagree. it does not mean you take lightly the issues. you do not say i have no enemies. you take those issues seriously. when i see pelosi or biden pretend as though they can somehow be faithful catholics when they are overtly rejecting

central tenets of the christian faith, i do not know whether to laugh or cry. it seems to be ridiculous. it seems you have to say, look, i will respect people the other side of the issue but i have no choice on that issue. it is like saying stealing is maybe wrong for you but who am i to say? i think it is your job to say. if you can love the thief and try to help him see the error of his ways, it is one thing. you have to take a stand. for pelosi and biden, i had the joy of meeting them and the honor of meeting them at the prayer breakfast, that seems to be a disconnect. and politically very cynical. pragmatism to the point of cynicism. -- brian: why would the pope spent as much time at the deal with the joe biden when he was here? eric: the previous pope spent time in the cell with a man who

tried to kill him. you show love and try to be pastoral. and to some extent, catholics, serious catholics, the pope does not exactly speak for the catholic church. right? if you take that out of context, it sounds silly. the pope is a human being, he is a pastoral figure. ex cathedraeaking all the time. he has opinions. every pope whether pope john or -- they all have ideas and things. we have to be careful about pretending as though what the pope says in front of the joint houses of congress is the same as the magisterium so to speak. now i don't mean to go insided baseball inside of but i think

that's partially the job of the pope like the job of any figurehead to love everybody. and so what he is doing, he is doing the right thing. and probably may be privately trying to influence people like biden and say we need you. i am glad you understand this issue and that issue. on this issue, you put me in a tough spot. you have been publicly catholic and then publicly pro-abortion. and, you know, i suspect that as part of the conversation. brian: back to the bonhoeffer story. i want to run video you produced in relation to the book coming out. see what it looks like. [video clip] >> he left a pastoral position in new york city and returned on the last ship to germany. he astounded with his passionate rhetoric. now, hitler viewed him as a threat. he was banned from berlin, forbidden to speak or write or publish.

wore the mask of a patriotic pastor that became a double agent. in the abwehr intelligence agency, he traveled to norway and switzerland used his contacts to sabotage nazi war strategy is smuggling the jewish. the gestapo uncovered the smuggling activity and hitler discovered his assassination plot. weeks before the inevitable third reich, bonhoeffer another spiritualist were executed by hitler's direct command. dietrich was honored to follow the guards and pulled his fellow prisoners aside and said "this is the end for me, the beginning of life." brian: when did you first know about somebody named bonhoeffer? eric: the summer of 1988.

the summer that i came to face dramatically -- the detail is on website -- i do not want to go into the details. a significant summer for me. in one week, i had a dream and changed as though the kind of thing you read about in the book. the men were sharing his face for me, my dear friend, he headed me of bonhoeffer copy of "cost of discipleship." he asked if i'd ever heard of bonhoeffer? i said no, i was 25 years old. he said, he is a german pastor and theologian, series christian who got involved in speaking up for the jews in speaking out against hitler and was killed by the nazis for his faith and beliefs. i thought, you have to be kidding? my mother is from germany. i speak some german. i grew up with the german accents in my house. my mother, my grandfather was

killed in the war. this is my life and my history and i never heard of this man. i started looking into it and i was truly flabbergasted. i don't think you can be literally flabbergasted, otherwise i would have said that. i said this story needs to be known. maybe someday i will be involved in making a movie or something. i never thought i would write a biography. brian: what were you doing at the time? eric: floundering. i was a copy editor. if you get a yale degree in english, that's only way to make money. i was trying to write. i sold humor to "atlantic" and i wanted to be in the footsteps of my heroes like woody allen, be one of those kinds of writers. in the middle of that difficult year and getting no real writing done, i read bonhoeffer's writings "the cost of discipleship."

and i thought, this is the type of christianity i could be involved in. a man comfortable yet utterly serious in his faith. here is a man who is very political, but he does not make an idol of politics. in other words, he is willing to do what is necessary. i said i've never seen anything like this. though i got interested in him, i do not write about him for many years. brian: when you say political, he was 39 when he was hanged , and who hung him? eric: nobody hung him, he was hanged. i got you. [laughter]

this is why he is so fascinating. so fascinating, his faith was so serious that he kept applying to the situation. he kept saying what why do now? what one does in 1933 and 1935 and 1937 that he kept changing because the situation kept changing. and he kept praying and saying, how do i react now? he knew in the beginning that the church in germany and i feel them the same is true everywhere especially the united states, the church must be the church. and the church usually gets it wrong. in the old testament, the people of god get it wrong and the prophets try to get the people to be the people of god. and now you say, how ridiculous. the prophets usually are not rewarded for their -- for being profound to trying to get people to be the people of god. bonhoeffer to me is a modern prophet they speak into the german church and saying you

have to wake up and stand against the nazis. what they stand for is antithetical to what we stand for. we have to stand up. if we speak up in time, we can win. there was no doubt in his mind and no doubt in my mind retrospectively that the german church was very strong. culturally, christianity was very strong in germany. if the church had linked arms and spoken out against the nazis, that the ability to do something. all he could do was to wake up the church and realized he failed. he felt that god led him to get involved in the political conspiracy against hitler. so he really went underground and became on the surface, he looked like a pastor.

but he was now involved with the abwehr, which is german military intelligence. that's what the conspiracy to kill hitler and his top lieutenants were in the abwehr. that's what makes the story so crazy and dramatic. so fascinating. verythink, here is a man serious about his faith. believed god-- he led him into conspiracy to assassinate the head of state. that is not a story one hears every day. it was in fact, he was arrested by the nazis for his involvement in something called operation -- operation seven. he was saving jews. that had nothing to do with the assassination attempt. he was imprisoned when it they discovered he had been involved also in a plot to kill hitler. three weeks before the end of the war, he is hanged by the nazis and a concentration camp.

a concentration camp. that is the long answer. brian: any ideas how many copies of bonhoeffer you have sold? eric: yeah, about one million. it has been translated to 19 languages. most of the copies are u.s. editions. a million over five years. if you had -- i remember asking the publisher before the book came out, what would be a success on this book? nelson, he said, i do not know, 30,000, 40,000. it is a 600 page book on a theologian. you do not expect -- what is -- ted turner famously called evangelicals. nothing positive. you do not expect them to buy a 600 page book on a german theologian. well, it turned out they were mis-underestimated.

dan rather loved the book. lots of people on the left loved the book. bonhoeffer defies political categorization. he is someone who is a christian first and you see that. for me, i would say probably the ultimate model for christians, people of faith today. he reached out everywyhere. brian: you said you are not a political activist but here you are in 2013 speaking to the conservative political action conference in washington. eric: i wrote a biography about dietrich bonhoeffer. it is because -- [applause] thank you. it is because of him i find myself thinking about the issue of religious freedom in america. many people of said they see disturbing parallels between what was happening in germany in the 1930's and america today. i am very sorry to agree. eric: boy, am i. brian: freedom in the united states to practice whatever

religion, is it being impeded? eric: hugely. brian: where? eric: the founders said we have the freedom of worship, they have freedom of worship in china. we have freedom of religion to free exercise thereof. the freedom to think what we like. the freedom to act on our thoughts. i have the freedom to leave church on sunday morning and for the rest of the week to act on my thoughts. there is no official constitutional point of view on the great questions of life. there cannot be. the government has to be agnostic on that. the government has to be the way it is with the free market. hands off, the free market will decide similarly with the free market of ideas, we do not get involved. what has been happening is the

government, the culture, and government have sort of said we will go with his version area version.l go with this what i would call maybe secular human liberal version about sexuality or whatever. i was a constitutionally, you cannot do that. you have to be careful. there are people whose faith says i cannot go along with that. i cannot support killing the babies in the womb. i cannot do it. maybe i would want to but i can't. i do not feel right. it goes and does my conscious. the government saying to them, you have to do it if you want to be an american, you have to support the hhs mandate. you have to fund abortions. you have to do these things. now, i am not a catholic.

i do not care much about that issue but the idea the government would say we do not care what your faith is, you better pony up the money or you will be in trouble. it is a small thing on one level but a principle. once the government gets in that business and let me say, a business of redefining marriage, you bumped up against that edge. you have to figure out how do we remain america where we say we want to respect the rights of this group but were obliged to respect the rights of this group that disagrees with this group. we have to figure this out. zeallly haven't seen much for that. brian: you mentioned about catholics and abortion. why do protestants do not feel the same? eric: we do. where talking about -- we are talking about contraception.

the catholics follow certain doctrine. most evangelicals do not share those believes. but, most people are serious and i do not agree with that but i have to agree with the idea the constitution says those people with those views, many -- meaning catholics, need to be protected. it has nothing to do with what i believe. they need to be protected. once you stop doing that, all of the freedoms unravel. that is fundamentally american doctrine. it does not have that much to do with religious doctrine. the founders said for the freedoms to flourish, we needed to have all of these freedoms in place. this is where i have seen, because the parallels with germany in the 1930's, it does not mean we need to leap to death camps.

when the state feels it can do this and push the church, the church needs to figure out what should our response be? it should not be to sit on our hands nor should it be to simply try to defend our rights. it is not about our rights as christians do what is right in america? brian: from a political standpoint, what you recommend if someone was to come to you running for office on the abortion issue? do you ever expect it to be changed, roe versus wade to be overturned? taking a chance with the body politics. eric: it is very complicated and this is why wilberforce is my other model. brian: who is wilberforce? eric: i am sorry. my first biography is william wilberforce. wilberforce is the man who led the battle in the early part of

1780's, 1790's, early part of the 19th century in parliament against the slave trade in the british empire. in 1807 after almost 20 years, he had a great victory. he was heralded as the george washington of humanity. a man who advocated liberty literally for the slaves and great cost to himself politically. he probably would have been prime minister. his dear friend william pitt became prime minister. wilberforce did this principally because he understood as a politician i am not -- in other words, he was not a party man. he was someone whose faith demanded that he's your way from his party. he was willing to do that. on the slavery issue and the slavery issue, he was a hero. the man that frederick douglass and abraham lincoln looked back to and said, he is the pioneer

of abolition. he is a hero. brian: you said you wrote about bonhoeffer in 1980 but wrote wilberforce before? eric: i never thought i would write a biography. i wrote a series. a humorous q&a about everything the bible says. and i thought, this is something i wish i had when i was growing up. in the course of writing the first book, i put in a paragraph about wilberforce. only knew a little bit about him. he said we must stand against slavery. i mentioned it on a cnn interview which led to somebody contacting me, eric, the bicentennial of wilberforce's victory in parliament and a movie being made. would you like to write a biography about wilberforce? brian: why were you on cnn? eric: i was on about the book "everything you wanted to know about god but was afraid to ask." it was near christmastime, they were willing to talk about

god. i mentioned wilberforce and a led to my being contacted. eric, would you like to write a biography? i thought, my goodness, i never thought. brian: how does it compare to bonhoeffer? eric: the title is "amazing grace." well. sold reasonably people who read bonhoeffer want to know if i wrote other books. i feel been equally about the books and proud of them. they are both heroes. we need heroes which leads to the book you're holding in your hand. brian: "seven men," a man named chuck. [video clip] >> the truth is so precious that it must be guarded.

there are times when the government simply cannot tell the truth and make full disclosure to the nuclear age. spending my life as i do in christian service have some difficulties with this. and yet, i looked back to the bible and see consider one of the heroes. she, of course, lied to protect israeli spies, jewish spies as they enter the promised land. there are cases in government going back at least as far as rahab the harlot, where lying is justified to prevent a much greater evil. brian: i know you are a friend of his. the question i have is after the man was involved in obstruction in justice and the nixon administration and the only one to resign and went to prison. -- mr. chuck colson went to prison. what do you believe he is doing here? he was so interested in power. is it the same thing? eric: no.

that is one of those things where something is hard to believe and they should be hard to believe. it is hard to believe that jesus rose from the dead bodily. but i do believe it. it is hard to believe. we talk about chuck, here is a guy that was, mr. dirty tricks, the hatchet man in the nixon white house. we were right to hate him and think he is less than ideal for our political culture. but he had an experience of faith similar to mine that was deep. you know, people ask, did he lose his mind? what happened to him? he was brilliant. it was authentic and so i've been it that led him to do things people cannot believe. his lawyer got him after he volunteered information around the watergate thing. he said, i cannot lie and he volunteered information.

it is fascinating. that's why i put him in the seven men book. his lawyer got him a plea deal and he said i will not take it because i would have to lie. maybe i will not get jail time but i cannot lie in this case. he goes to jail. he had teenage kids. he felt his faith was the most important thing. when he got out of prison, he could've done what anybody would do like martha stewart, put it behind you and raise forward. he spent the rest of his life going back into prison sharing the space with prisoners. he is one of those people that i can look at and go he is the real deal. this guy was the real deal. he was willing to do whatever because says faith. -- willing to do whatever

because of his faith. if you got to know him personally like i did, you saw he was the same in private. he was no phony. he was a breath of fresh air. like bonhoeffer when i understood who he was, it is possible to be intelligent and educated and really serious about your faith and is doing that. he may not be doing it perfectly but wow, he is doing it. people who know him saw that. it is so inspiring. i know a lot of younger people do not know. hughes literally on his deathbed when i decided to put him in my "seven men" book. i would not put anybody living. abraham lincoln was slated. when he was on deathbed, history

had to be told. brian: your new book on "seven women." eric: i never thought i would write "seven women" and i wrote "seven men" when it came to the time i was talking about my next book, should be about the crisis of manhood in our culture? since i've grown up, we are less and less comfortable showing sort of heroic figures. we know about the downside about heroic figures but we do not tell kids in school why george washington was great. we either avoid the subject or talk about how he was a slave owner and never mentioning there was nobody who was not a landowner in virginia at the time who wa -- was not a slaveowner. we focus on the negative and it is harming young men in particular. we need heroes and for up and say he was not perfect but look at life. one of the last books bonhoeffer had with him was -- we really some the prices throughout the millennia and

only recently that we stopped doing that. i said is not healthy for the culture. it is good to know that is hypocritical this issue. it is also good to know what the -- what made george washington great. what made many of those folks great. i wrote "seven men" around the time i was writing debt, people say when you going to write " seven women?" i said i should do that. as i go out of my way in the introduction, these women were great because they were women. something that arises out of home they were as women.

[video clip] brian: let's watch a little bit of rosa parks. rosa parks: we thank you. i thank you. encouragement for all of us. to continue until all people have equal rights. brian: near the end of her life there. what led you to putting her in the book and how did you do something nobody else had done? eric: i am not a historian or scholar. i am not about being original, coming up with new things. what i find, i am a -- to some -- i am a populizer to some extent. i'm sensitive to the culture and not the word of academia. i often aware of the things i know about are not well known. the story of bonhoeffer and wilberforce and the story of rosa parks. people do not know she and jackie robinson were serious christians.

this is kind of important. are we forgetting the civil rights movement just like the abolitionist movement was really fueled by people of profound christian faith? i think we're forgotten about that. rosa parks was very serious about her faith. in fact, it was because of that and jackie robinson's christian faith they were chosen to lead the civil rights battles. most people do not know that. i did not know. when i discovered, i want to tell the world. it is exciting. and so, yeah, they were very serious christians. most people do not know that. brian: another woman -- when does this new book come out? eric: about 10 minutes ago. brian: here is mother teresa. [video clip] >> [indiscernible]

fiveat is why you have fingers. to remind you. you did it to me. brian: what was your reaction when christopher hitchens wrote the book that was not kind of mother teresa? eric: people often do things that are disappointing. hitchens, a few times and his life think things that were tremendously disappointing. them. i thought his book was an example of that is book on mother teresa is a horrific example of that.

he could descend to level of nastiness and ad hominem attacks and anecdotal cheap shots that i would say were really unworthy of him. i do not know what to make of his hit piece on mother teresa except to say it was unworthy of him. it was really -- actually at the end of the day, it is bizarre. no making sense. he was so angry -- if i decide to pick anyone and focus on the stuff about them that you hate and anything that you can find that causes you to question them and just go with it and i try to be fair-minded. it is sad. i am sure she was not perfect and she would be the first to say she was not. i debated christopher hitchens on cnn once. he had just said vicious things about jerry falwell. he had just died hours before. i thought to myself, i have never been a great fan of jerry falwell but it is unseemly for somebody to go on the air and spew vitriolic hours after they die. it really was -- he had

unfortunately had moments like that. brian: 7 billion people in the world and 30% of them are christians. 1.6 billion are muslims. buddhists and hindus are large. put that all into context as you look at the world, why are there this different religions and who do you believe? eric: "whom" do you believe? i got you. people know me know i make a mistake more often than you make it. brian: you have to come back more often so i can learn from you. eric: i am very at the medical. i a ecumenical. as i have learned after writing bonhoeffer there are people out there that worship and i do love

theological perfection. now worshiping god but an idle of theological perfection. and i think when you look at the not thate bible, andlogy is not imporant unimportant, but we are not to worship that but to worship the living god. a god of infinite love. infinite love. even imagine what it means, the answer is no. it means you are to love people. it does not mean we are to constantly corrected them on their theology. because i think as one of my great heroes, c.s. lewis made clear in one of the narnia books, what somebody says that are worshiping is not always

what they are worshiping. god looks at the heart. there is a part in lewis' book, the horse and the boy. he is a muslim figure and find out in his heart, his worshiping god. you find around the world there are people who would say i am a christian. god looks at their heart and knows they are putting their trust into jesus. they put their trust in labels and theology. it cuts both ways. we have to be very careful in judging people's salvation. our job is to love, speak the truth in love, but not to say i know so and so will not be in heaven. god wants everyone to be in heaven. that is my theology because i think that's what the bible teaches. the details are complicated. i've got to have grace and humility knowing that i deserve to go to heaven less than anyone. i say that just as st. paul said it. and we need to live that. so, this idea that every christian is going to heaven, that is complete nonsense and unbiblical.

just need to take theology seriously, we have to be careful in a way of taking get so seriously we are worshiping theology and doctrine more than we are worshipping god. brian: you told us you do your radio show and the empire state building. the middle of new york city. how are you treated in the middle of new york city? if you walked into the new york times newsroom, how many people would agree with your philosophy? eric: to some extent, i believe we go where god calls us to go. i was born in new york city. i have lived in new york city most of my life. god has allowed me to have a yale education and speak the language of the cultural elites. i really believe god has called me and my wife to be here. it does not matter so much who agrees with us because --

brian: do you get eye rolling? eric: if i put myself more often in those situations, i might. my attitude is people tend to agree with me, i need to love people and love them where they are. plenty of people who agree with me on doctrine. i have more disagreement with them on other issues that somebody i disagree a political. brian: when do you start socrates in the city and what is it? eric: in the year 2000, one of my heroes is dick cavett, i love his shows. i said i want to have conversations with people whose voices we're not hearing very much in places like new york.

many of them christians, not all. many of them conservative, not all. i feel like these ideas that are not really part of the mix of the cultural conversation. i said let's have these people and you can ask any tough question. let's have fun. it is to have fun. and so i started in 2000 every month or two months, will have a speaker. i would introduce them usually with a lot of goofiness and humor. i do not want people to get idea that we are supposed to have a intellectual conversation, but to be fun. the search for truth should be fun. i said let's examine life and the big questions. we typically have done them in private clubs in manhattan. university clubs area we have done them and a number of places. there is wine and hors d'oeuvres. brian: do you have to pay to come? eric: yes but heavily subsidized. we have tried to make it affordable. it has been changing. most recently it is $35 or $40. it costs more than double to

pull them off. where look at economic models. brian: how many are on youtube? eric: i do not know but a lot are on youtube. and they have aired on the nrb channel. many get to the around the country. the network, total living network, one of those. i want to get them out. we taped a bunch in oxford, england. there were a lot of people i want to talk to in oxford, england. it's a little like this, a little bit goofier. but it is fun. if i like you, i will correct you. that is my compliment if i tease people. that is my love language. brian: i can use it.

c.s. lewis you named. here is some audio of c.s. lewis from the bbc back in march of 1944 during the war. clip]eo t.s. eliot: not just a story of bad people doing bad things. quite as much a story of people trying to do good things. somehow, something goes wrong. take the common expression -- [indiscernible] from experience. patronizing and conceded, chairman of people often are. the charitable people often are but hundreds of thousands start

out really anxious to do good. when they have done it, somehow it is not good as it ought to have been. brian: what are you hearing from him? why are you such a big fan? eric: he is his own literature. he wrote in every genre. there is something about him which is utterly, i guess of the word would be unprecedented. he was a super genius with an ability to communicate through various genres and that is rare. he wrote the narnia chronicles. i did not read them until i was an adult. they are some the greatest books ever written. they are stunning. he wrote the space traditionally which is i narnia for adult. staggering level of writing. there are passages there are anythingre better than ever wrote.ia he is hugely underrated by the intelligence because presently known as a christian apologist. it ought to be taught in every college and university in america alongside paradise lost. it is simply that good.

he was -- he is perceived as it too old-fashioned or traditional to be in the modernistic 20th-century world of literature. there is no one like him. he was a polymath. what he was saying, i think of the modern democratic party. that last piece, people whose heart is in the right place but sometimes institutionalized charity becomes dad. -- becomes dead. we saw it in the church in the 19th century and away that the private sector took it over the 20th century. there's always the tendency for it to grow cold and forget about the person and make it, it becomes about the organization. he was a prophet voice that will probably cringe if he her somebody call him that. -- if he heard somebidy call him that. brian: do you live in manhattan? eric: i do. brian: where did you meet your

wife? eric: in a pentecostal church on 51st and broadway. an amazing place. i remember the first time i went there. i thought how could it be here? we went there for number of years. i still visit when i can. we met there. and we went, was subsequently have been to a number of churches. we are really ecumenical, i do not care about denominations. i would like to think i am like c.s. lewis' phrase, a mere christian. do not care by the nomination. i am for them. i approve of them. we have one child, she is 16. brian: what did she think about your philosophy a life? eric: she will not tell me. ask a 16-year-old girl, who can fathom? when we talk about philosophy of life, you have to live what you

say you believe. this is what i talk about with bonhoeffer quite often and wilberforce, it is how you behave more than what you say you believe. god looks on the heart and sees what we believe by how we treat others around us. so, i really think that especially with kids, they are looking at how do you behave behind the closed doors of your apartment more than what you say on a piece of paper. that is one the reasons having kids is the greatest thing in the world. they do keep you humble and force you to see where you have a long way to go. brian: and a very brief time remaining, those who have enough of eric metaxas. can find the books?

amazon? eric: my website is my name ericmetaxas.com. brian: your radio -- religion-based? eric: i do not think they are religion based. they have a lot of religion shows. newstalk stations. officially?re honestly? i don't know. brian: religion is a very important part. eric: both of whom i adore is jewish. they are pro-faith. they believe that faith is good in public place area brian: to find a station by going to your website? eric: if you cannot find a station on my website, it is all

over the country. like 300 stations. if you cannot find it or whatever, go to metaxastalk.com, you can listen to it 24 hours a day. brian: you have the books bonhoeffer and wilberforce. "miracles.", eric: i wrote a piece for "the wall street journal" about miracles, is the most popular thing ever published on the website not because i am a great writer but because there's a hunger in america for the subject. science, what can we know? yeah, that is something i burn with interest. brian: eric metaxas, thank you very much. we're out of time. eric: thank you. ♪

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