cable satellite corp. 2015] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] tonight on c-span, a conversation with john whitehead , author of "battlefield america," about civil rights. the muslim public affairs council hosts a discussion about how muslims are depicted in the media. and chris christie hosts a town hall meeting in new hampshire. columnistartists and molly crabapple discusses her drawings of the israeli-palestinian conflict and guantanamo bay on 7:00 p.m. eastern on c-span2. on "washington journal," we talked to john whitehead, who argues in his book, "battlefield america," the u.s. is on the verge of becoming a police state. this is an hour.

host: joining us from new york is john whitehead, author of battlefield america. good morning. guest: good morning. host: tell us about the genesis of the book. constitutional lawyer handling cases for clients across the country. i have watched increased violence in the country. have watched the surveillance state grow. i worked with former secret service agents. i had top-secret clearance and worked on top-secret programs. i have seen some things that really bother me on a constitutional level. i believe in the fourth amendment, which says clearly that before surveillance is done on american citizens, there

needs to be probable cause. now you have a massive security agency downloading 2 million e-mails daily. you have a post office recording all of our mail, 160 million pieces annually. , we may want to talk about a few cases where the fbi comes in, watches facebook. we have clients that have been arrested for facebook posts. what i am seeing is the government watching everything we are doing. seem toame time, they be bumbling and cannot catch so-called terrorists. that is why the book is called "battlefield america." again, i represent the clients. i see what is happening across the country. to be honest, the subtitle "the war on the american people," i am telling people it is time to get involved in government. get up and get active.

40 years of experience, i think we are heading down a long train. i studied historical patterns. the historical patterns i see, germany, stalinist russia sa agent who said we are following a volatility model. we are moving into an arrow where everybody is watched. you can get in trouble for the slightest thing. some of the cases i have been involved in, it is pretty freaky. on the front line, you see things that are pretty scary. the bill of rights said, take alarm at the first threat to liberty. host: our guest will be talking about the specifics in his book. if you want to asking questions, now is the time to call in.

republicans,1 for (202) 748-8000 free democrats, and (202) 748-8002 for independents. where do you see the infringements on our liberties, specifically in the modern-day? guest: i am seeing them everywhere. the government is listening in on phone calls. witholice are equipped stingray devices from homeland security. they download your information. they watch everything you are doing. you are tracked wherever you go. homeland security has been handing out surveillance cameras to local communities. they watch those. we live in a surveillance society now. i am afraid the fourth amendment no longer works. the are not enforcing it. the courts are not enforcing it. to give you an example, innocent

activity, i defended a marine several years ago, a 26-year-old named brandon robb who was just doing facebook posts. he had come back from afghanistan. a decorated marine, by the way. he took weapons away from al qaeda in the field. you did not like the executive orders the president was doing. he was ranting and raving. morning, he walks to his screen door and looks out. the swat team is running towards his house. people in black suits running towards his house in white shirts. he steps close to the screen door and says, what is up? out?ys, sir, can you step proper had done a background check, they would know he did not have a weapon. he was immediately arrested, handcuffed. he argued back.

his mother called every group and got a hold of me. i called the police chief and said, what has he done? he said, he has committed no crime. i said, this is an american citizen. we are concerned about his facebook posts. he had a five minute examination by a jail psychiatrist. he did not have a lawyer. truther,he is a 9/11 he had a hearing and was put in a mental hospital. we filed a lawsuit and got him out. if i had not been involved in one case, research shows point 5 million commitments happen across america on an annual basis. this was for a facebook post. that is freedom of expression, ladies and gentlemen.

today, you say the wrong thing, especially veterans being watched by homeland security, be careful of what you put on facebook. you can get arrested. ,hat is the state of the land the clients i have. i talked to former secret service agents who say the same thing. these are not made up stories. my book has 35 pages of footnotes. becausee of the topics of the recent events in san bernardino, one of the topics that came up was about social media. presidential candidates were asked about it. hillary clinton asked recently what needs to be done about social media and it being used as a recruitment tool. i want to know what you say in response. [video clip]

>> to do that, we need stronger relationships between washington, silicon valley, and tech companies and entrepreneurs. american innovation is a powerful force, and we have to put it to work defeating isis. that begins with understanding where and how recruitment happens. our security professionals need to more effectively track and analyze isis's social media posts and jihadist networks. and they need help from the tech community. companies should redouble their efforts to maintain and enforce andr own service agreement other necessary policies to police their networks, identifying extremist content and removing it. host: when you hear that, what goes through your mind? guest: if someone is directly connected to isis and there are facts, that is a probable cause

scenario. when you are tracking guys like aboutlla i just talked and other people over the years, that is fine. but she used the word "extremist." listen, if you read what came out of homeland security in 2009 , there were three memos under obama. one is right-wing extremism, left-wing extremism. when i read them, these are extremists, by the way. environmental groups were categorized as extremists. ,eople advocating state rights they were extremists. operation vigilant eagle, all returning veterans were watched. "extremists,"ys who is she talking about? are there terrorists where there

are facts? sure. but when you have huge departments like homeland security, which i am told they to give you ansa example, did a mock test not too long ago. different groups would sneak weapons and so-called explosives through. in 9% of the cases, those went through. what we are dealing with is a , and i was told this agent, that is watching everybody. your neighbors. we do not follow up on leads anymore. computers are doing the job. if there are facts, follow up on it. if someone says i am a member of isis, that should be followed up. but tracking innocent american citizens like i am seeing -- if people want to live in a

surveillance state, that is fine. but there are 5000 federal crimes, 300,000 regulatory crimes. you can get indicted on, in trouble for. a man spends 18 days in jail for overgrown grass. we have several cases where police shut down lemonade stands . there are a lot of laws out there right now that can be enforced against you if you live in a surveillance state. again, follow the law. if you have facts, check those people out. if they are dangerous, you round them up. but if you are watching everybody -- the san bernardino terrorists, supposedly the fbi had vetted them. again, they are watching everybody and cannot get the real criminals. host: we will get some calls to you. this is david in dayton, ohio

for our guest, john whitehead, author of "battlefield america." caller: good morning. i will be buying your book. bookle ago, i bought a "rise of the warrior cop." and i knew this was going on. until i saw what was going on in ferguson. troops, cops, taking aim at people from tanks. i mean, literally tanks. were going to shoot innocent protesters. it just told how everything in the police force being militarized. get ishaqi shocking what is going on in our country.

shocking what is going on in our country. i will be buying your book. thank you and merry christmas. w.st: under president george bush, they began handing out military equipment through a program under the pentagon. that surged under president obama. they have mine resistant vehicles used in iraq, sniper rifles, vests, everything you today, being have handed out by homeland security. my amazing thing when i did research, we were told it was all used equipment. almost 70% is brand-new. corporate america is pushing these programs and things. sayingsychologists are there is what they call the "weapons effect."

if there is a protest where they have guns, the weapons effect means the citizens are reacting to that. it makes a citizen more aggressive. what you saw in ferguson, near the end of the protests, there were some really solid law enforcement officers that got out there, shook hands with people, talked to them. they simmered down the protests. academies, ipolice have been told by officers who teach the academies, it is 7-1 on militarization. reversere first that -- that, they think a lot of what we see -- here in new york city, i saw a police man driving by, shaking hands with citizens. good idea. we have to realize this. the policeman on duty is one of

us. i do not like the term "civilian." no, sir. we are both citizens. i am not a civilian at all. sorry, folks. , georgelem is washington and james madison and ,he founding fathers, they said do not ever have a standing army. creating are standing army with local police armed to the hilt. i do not see many local police, by the way. they worked heavily with the fbi and department of justice. the fbi has moved into some local police agencies. they are watching all social media, feeding it to the police. should they be doing that in that kind of situation? we do not want a police state. i do not, anyway.

some of the viewers do, but i do not want that. so, yes, i am concerned about that. there is too much money being made by large corporate entities pushing this, working through police units. you will see this increase. however, local communities can change that. i am advocating people creating civil liberties oversight boards. people work with local police to defuse the situation. do we really need 80,000 swat team raids annually where people are getting shot? little kids, dogs? host: let's hear from another viewer in utah. bob on the democrat line. caller: good morning.

your guest, mr. whitehead covered heart of what i will say about the police. i would like you to know how i felt about the policeman in nevada being shot by, i guess they are tea party because they waved at the tea party flag over their bodies or hung it there. that really bothered me to think something like this could go on in our country when these policeman are just having a piece. i will let you go ahead and answer that because our country is going downhill because we are staging a war between the people in it. we have trump out there hollering, politicians that lie, we need somebody who cares. there's a guide by the name of

huntsman and i'm a democrat and he was an excellent governor. anyway, i had to let some steam off. host: that's jon huntsman, the former governor of utah. possibly an independent candidate mr. whitehead, go ahead. guest: i see that, i don't like the us versus them. i'm watching the debates and i don't like that. what we need is to bring our people together and our communities together. we are not doing that. as i look at our communities today, traveling by the way, walking through local communities, everybody is inside and no one knows who their neighbor is. we have lost our communities. when you get that you will get schisms and hate. when i hear hate rolling from politicians' mouth, i don't like that. if this country is going to make it, we have to get back to our roots. one is we have to get back to the sense and i say this in my book, we don't teach the golden rule. that we should treat others decently. i've had police officers, to me and these are older policeman saying i don't like the way you

-- younger police officers walk up to american citizens these days. i don't like the reverse reaction were they automatically hate everybody in a uniform. that can be defused by our politicians, it can be worked through in schools. and getting back into community relations. we need to be involved in our government. how does the constitution start? ? what is the first three words? we the people. what does that mean. we the people are the government. president obama isn't, he represents us. the policeman isn't, he represents us. we the people. when you go back and say what is the cause of our problems, we the people are not involved. i'm telling people get down the street and bring back community get-togethers. get to know your local policeman. make sure that when things are happening in your community, you know about it and are not

oblivious. you shouldn't be shocked by some of the things you're hearing, you should know what's going on. folks, get involved. i think we can see a lot of the butf we're seeing cap down the government and police, nts, dhsnt age walking through with their uniforms, fbi, all those things. we can correct that but we have to do it ourselves. host: our guest is john whitehead, author of battlefield america: the war on american people. he's joining us as part of our author series. if you want to ask questions, 202-748-8001 four republicans, 202-748-8000 democrats, 202-748-8002 independent. caller from the independent line. caller: good morning. filibuster,th his the senator from vermont, patrick leahy, was being

interviewed. he addressed section 215. paraphrasing, lives are being ruined, education is destroyed. careers are destroyed. because people are being put on these watch lists and have no idea. they cannot defend themselves. they have no recourse whatsoever. a lot of these people that are on the watchlist have nothing to do with terrorism. i found a pretty interesting. also, people really cannot take action. you cannot sue anybody because the minute you try, the first thing they start screaming is national security. you can't say anything. the country is in danger. really? i just don't buy that for a second.

that's my first part. my second is if you can address a bit on civil asset forfeiture. i would really like your take on that. thank you and i will take your response on the other side. guest: that's a big question. terrorist watch lists do exist. government admits they have a database called main core. they use the word extremist again which bothers me. all the people i've seen out there like martin luther king, who is labeled an extremist and he reacted to that. they calledystem main core, a government system. they claim this is fact. they claim to have 8 million names on that list. people that would be in times of emergency, might be rounded up. those of the terms they use. i would say if we live and a democracy, it is supposed to be transparent. if i am on a terrorist watch

list i should know. the government should at least send me a note to say you're on a list so i can react and defend myself. but they don't do that. i talked with a client this week who was pulled over who was on the watchlist and went to the police department. he hadn't done anything wrong. that secret government stuff is the stuff i talk about in the book, stuff former regimes have stuff. stuff we should not put up with. if the average american is on a terrorist watch list, we should know. obviously so we can defend ourselves. itfar as asset forfeiture, is a huge program that police used to rake in millions of dollars to share with the department of justice. if you're pulled over with cash, they are taking cars homes, stuff like that. it funds many police programs. i looked up some local police cemetery using the money for, carnivals, fairs.

getting the property back if you are found not guilty will cost so much money that people give up. there are some communities reacting against it. it, somephasizing local communities have skill that back and some have done away with it and said we don't want asset forfeiture schemes in our community where police are grabbing cars and whatever because somebody's arrested. egregious and it goes back to whether or not we have private property. that is some thing i want to talk about before we get off the air. i see private property as going away. something the fourth amendment protects. if police enter your home without a warrant and a swat team raids, crashing through shot,oor, people getting we don't have private property. moving in that direction.

the problems as i see it, they are so don't overwhelming that sitting and talking about it is not going to change much. in my book i argue that community action may change these things. there's a lot of things many americans don't know about because we are not checking into it. democracy starts with the individual. it is self-government. it spreads out and if you are self-governing, you can have tremendous impact. host: eight from toledo, ohio, republican line. caller: bless you, gentlemen. the reason i'm calling is i'm a 1787 republican. in 1787, two documents were written. the constitution and the northwest ordinance. nowhere in those documents do you find the word democracy or democratic. the government formed by us was

formed on morality and on religion, the religion of jesus christ. this is defined by our founders. whenrst question is, everybody calls us a democracy, they are found calling our founders a liar. i am wondering why this is so ingrained in our people. in thend question is northwest ordinance, it demanded that ohio, michigan, etc. not only have a republican constitution, they have a republican government. stating again what a republican government is. by last question for mr. whitehead since you mentioned democracy, is what does the liberty bell mean? i think you jim mentioned have a blessed day in the on united socialist states of america. spelt with a k and run by the

republicans and the democrats, the parties of the rich and the famous. benjamin franklin was asked when he walked out of the constitutional convention what kind of government we had. he said a republic if you can keep it. i don't think we kept it. the word democracy, the way people use it today and white people want to use it is they want to participate in the government -- why people want to use it is they want to produce a and the government. i talk about in my book. voting is the illusion of participation. you are putting this down here. jimmy carter recently said it takes 200 to $300 million just to run for president. whoever you are electing for president, i'm sorry, you will probably get disagreement. you are electing a corporate entity to a certain degree

because they have tremendous isluence in funding over who elected. and 2000 14, princeton university in conjunction with northwestern university issued a report where they studied at 20 years of policies and laws passed from washington, d.c. at the end of their study and this was one of the best things i've ever read, they concluded that we live in an oligarchy funded by a moneyed elite. the average citizen has virtually no input in what , d c s in washington if that doesn't freak you out, it should. in other words you, the so-called citizen have no input in what happens. a good question. do we have a republic? not in my opinion. eyesight that study that we live in an oligarchy. listen, the people who wrote the constitution, thomas jefferson,

today he would be on the extremist list. madison would be on the list, patrick henry who said give me liberty or give me death and thought the constitution was too cumbersome. list, what ise the liberty bell mean? freedom. they wanted freedom. the freedom to be not watched, not touched by government agents, unless that agent has probable cause. freedom means to be left alone in your country. to be able to walk down your street without getting patted as in milwaukee, they are doing in a probes on citizens while they stand and watch. they have been sued and people have been awarded. the right to travel along the highway without being pulled over in the middle of the night and women having their vaginas probed. these are happening on a daily basis.

we've allowed this to happen. what does liberty mean? it means me saying i will not put up with this anymore. i will stand up for my rights. i want to change this thing. that's what freedom and liberty is all about and what the liberty bell stands for. the people who started this country today would be on a terrorist watch list. they gave us freedom. host: our guest is john whitehead of the rutherford institute, author of "battlefield america: the war over the american people. " you say the average american commits three felonies of a without knowing it. guest: oh yeah. there are 5000 crimes, over 4000 regulatory crimes. cases of the rutherford institute, we handle legal cases. i find lawyers.

me, theady called police were at her door as she has a chicken. it's against the law in her community to have a chicken in your backyard. she wanted it for eggs. a veteran calls who was pulled over on his front porch and questioned. defended in phoenix, arizona had 10 people in his living room and was told that was against the law. there are meeting for bible study. the police arrested him and he spent 60 days in jail. that's the kind of cases that are spreading across the country because there's so many laws. national groups that write the laws, and local communities in them. walking down the street you can be accused of any crime. thing i don'ter

like. neighbors, most of these cases, it is neighbors calling the police. they don't walk to the neighbor and say anything. this is what i say with community relations. they don't say hey, could you move your chicken? no, they call the police. they are not working with their community. we go back to the question asked earlier. do we live in a republic? no. not if you are participating in your government and are not working with your fellow citizens. that is the place to start. host: next is from pennsylvania, democrat line. caller: i want to talk about something very small. nobody talks about it because it is humiliating. medication, a non-psychotropic medication by a psychiatrist. i had one of the known side

effects. the presence of mind to realize i needed medical advice to find out what was causing the problem. and to cover her malpractice, she called the suicide police on may. most people think that when you call the suicide hotline or somebody calls it on you, that some nice mental health worker comes and reassures you. no, they send the police. they put me in handcuffs. i have osteoporosis, a gave me compression fractures. i was thrown into a county crisis center. i was put on other drugs and i tried to call the lawyer that i planning, hestate was disgusted with me and hung up the phone. i had no one to call.

on a list. not a terror list but another list. it means having had an involuntary commitment for a side effect of a medication for i am i was asking help, never allowed to work with the elderly or children again. it has wiped out the last 15 years of my working life. i am 65. my masters was in special education and social work. that pretty much wiped out my ability to work and gave me six at least years of ptsd. it is different from combat, i am not a danger of anyone. i have never been suicidal. this list, every time i have reached out for help for being anxious, somebody calls the police again. host: thank you for the call.

i will let our guest respond. guest: i have worked on a number of cases. withve several going on, what they called welfare checks. we had a case recently where a fellow argued with his wife and said he was going on a trip. the employer called the police and said you need to do a welfare check. the police, the fellow was getting ready to leave and the police sent a swat team out and surrounded the car. tape after police on they talk to the guy through the window of his car saying we shouldn't be here, this doesn't work. out thely, they smashed guys window, dragged him out, to him face down, and we filed a lawsuit against them. this is happening across the country. it shows you, again, what is happening. pulleys, but her how good they are, are not trained in how to deal with somebody who may have a mental problem.

they know that in most instances. i've seen that happen over and over again. again, we need some kind of government protection. this is an area that is emerging with so called checks and people getting arrested. people getting their lives destroyed and put on lists. me there should be a headline you call where you can talk to a lawyer or an attorney who will give you advice immediately before you are arrested. we dealt with an old guy not too long ago who said somebody was tapping into his cable. the police came to check it out. because he slurred his words a few times, they were handcuffing him behind his back and took him to a mental institution, put him against the wall, and that a strip search. nothing was wrong with them. but he went through all this and is suffering from ptsd himself.

this goes back and shows you what i am illustrating in my book. is the government views us different than they viewed us 30 years ago and maybe 20 years ago. for some reason, the average american i am seeing more and more seems to be the enemy or the one we worry about when you have crazies running around getting guns and wanting to shoot people in groups. again, not focusing on the real problem. next up is eric from daytona beach, republican line. caller: good morning, it is a pleasure to speak to you. i am a student of history and i'm wondering when did this happen? when did this start? i will take your call off-line. guest: i would say that as far as what we are seeing with the police, if you want to talk about that, that started in the 1980's with the emergence of swat teams. there were 3000 swat team raids in 1985 to give you a figure.

they were used against hostage situations, high tense situations. today there are over 80,000 happening across the united states on a daily basis -- i mean a yearly basis. that is increasing. 85% of those are from lawrence where police used to come -- warrants were people used to come and knock on your door. today that has changed. ge now where chan they smashed on your door. police were doing a sweep of this man's neighborhood, they crashed through his door in the middle of the night and took his wife and child and put them in a closet. the only weapon he had was a hunting rifle. the police saw him, he got it was burglars. they fired over 70 times and hit was a 50 some times. police said he fired at them but

the investigation showed the safety was never off the weapon. they entered his home and killed him. we are seeing this happen daily. children are getting killed. one thing i am seeing, people who work in the academy's who teach say the intense militarization process the young policeman are going through, they are being trained militarily and oppressing militarily. under the bush of administration handed out this equipment. what you put on as i show in the book, when you put combat outfits on anybody, a local policeman or whatever, their view changes. the person they are looking at becomes an enemy combatant. we can change that and scale it back because here's the key. the fbi statistics show crime in america is at a 40 year low. per citizenzen crime. office is that a 50 year low. dutyficers getting shot on

is at a 50 year low. people are making a lot of money off of this. shame on them. it, localange communities are sending back the local equipment. a don't want a grenade launcher in their community or a tank. i don't blame them. if you have high crime or whatever, you may need that situation. what i'm seeing is the history started >> listen here. are 17,000 times more likely to die of a heart attack been killed by terrorists. to beght more

killed by a policeman. a german named david who writes for a blog called rational consent. he referenced -- there is a gentleman named david who writes for a blog called rational consent. he says a police state is not a state with a powerful police it is when police forces are not covered by law or when the government wields police power arbitrarily. examples include socia r -- soviet russia, not to germany. ,he u.s. is not a police state this rhetoric needs to stop. how do respond -- how would you respond? guest: it is characterized by massive surveillance. hyper violence against citizens is increasing. all the signs are there. history, thet government agents, the policeman i talked to tell me this thing. they are nervous about where we are heading.

we can say it is not a police state but listen. everything you are doing is being watched. they round up x marines because they are doing facebook posts and crashing through doors. at the rutherford institute i work with students. i had a group of students from the university of virginia. a couple of years ago i had someone say they're working on a project and they would like to determine swat team raids. they came back and said we couldn't find a log of this in not to germany -- nazi germany or stalinist russia. they didn't see a lot of the aggression. it was toward certain groups like the jewish people, but we swat raids.ng we are seeing over 1000 people being killed i police this year, many unarmed. you are seeing every action like an ferguson, missouri.

do i think we are moving into a police state? history shows that and current fact. we are moving to a police state. it is time to stop it. host: devin from johnston city, tennessee. independent line. caller: good morning fellows. the country is in danger. you are 100% right when you talk about all the laws and regulations we have. we can't even collect rainwater. blueberry tax, fishing license, cannabis, milk. we can go on and on. guest: swat team raids against

farmers for goat milk. that is right. john mccain was on tv a few years ago. he talked about how he and hillary clinton both voted to arm isis to take out bashar al-assad. and obama didn't put forth. -- and got on their obama didn't vote for it. just type in john mccain voted for isis and he was on fox news talking about he and hillary clinton voted to arm isis. it was my mind. -- blew my mind. it was true, they both voted in 2012. and tell the government know,

say we are not going to listen to you anymore. we do people have a choice. i read that we funded isis with weapons. there are brand-new toyota trucks, supposedly they tack -- trackback to this country. i don't know if that is true. as far as export it weapons, the united states is a big exporter of weapons and bombs. usedof the weapons being by former marines i talked to in afghanistan when they capture weapons, they are american. some of our former colleagues were talking about morality. that they were saying at some point, let's be careful where we are handing out bombs. you mentioned a obama not voting

for something. one thing that bothers me about he decides supposedly, who he will kill with a drone. so far, almost 2500 civilians have been killed. one was a 16-year-old kid. seemed to lack empathy for other countries and each other. that is something that i have seen with so-called, some that he mentioned us versus them. we are losing empathy and what that means to me is care for other human beings. and handing out weapons all across the world. that should stop. the drones that will be proliferating across this country armed with their weapons will be all over the world. atee a future if you look technology. i talk about it clearly in the book where drones are heading and robotics is heading.

become thel permanent state. the great russian dissonance said a state of perpetual war is an excuse for domestic tyranny. that is an exact quote. when you have a warring empire and history shows us with the roman empire being one good example, is that when you have a warring empire it comes back and starts imploding. all the weapons used in afghanistan and what we are seeing with local policeman that started overseas, tasers started being overseas. sound cannons they are using to disperse free-speech protesters. all of that is coming home. we have a lot of decisions. thecomes a time when average american has to say i'm not taking this anymore and will stand up for freedom. martin luther

king give us the model and said militant nonviolent resistance to oppression. he was labeled an extremist in his day and not well-liked. he was my hero at that time. happening, hethis said we are living in a police state and that was 1968 before he got shot. host: melvin from fort lauderdale, florida. john whitehead is our guest and on the line for you. caller: i think the whole changing the actual meaning of what happened and what the facts were at the time. if you look at the constitution and it says we the people, the first thing you have to look at is the people that wrote that. what were we the people at the time? the only people at the time who whitevote were rich

men. and you had to own property. therefore women couldn't vote. blacks couldn't vote. indentured servants couldn't vote and neither could indians. it was an oligarchy because the only people capable of voting who had the means to vote were rich white men and that went on for years. set up and say we are people meant everybody is absolutely wrong because it only meant those people who could actually determine what the law was and what could go on at that point in time. thank you. guest: that's a good comment. we the people at that time, you are right. it was rich white aristocrats. they ran it but they give us a basis and we saw that with the civil war. african-americans finally rose up and said that's enough. martin luther king extended it. what i am arguing in my book is let's extend it further. let's get active.

let's take what they've given us. they gave us the bill of rights. read it, and here's the amazing thing. the average american can't tell me what's in it. i have talked to 150 lawyers not to long ago and in the middle of my speech i asked i do a civics lesson? they look at me like i was not. room,y lawyer in this this was harvard, berkeley, those types. can any lawyer in this room give me the defined freedom and the first amendment? raise your hand in our call on you. one guy went up and put his hand down. my wife was in the back and said they were arguing at the table. they gave us defined freedoms in the first amendment. the right to assemble in protest. you have those rights. we have the right to keep the army and police out of our homes. we have the right in the fourth amendment against the police state.

folks, let's take it. we can complain about it, let's take it and run with it. let's create a new civil rights law. it expands this and gives the government off our backs and out of our homes and off our cell phones and computers. it keeps the police from smashing through our doors and killing someone. withas asleep on her couch her princess blanket and she got shot by a swat team and guess what, they were in the wrong apartment. they didn't follow the fourth amendment. i think we the people are the government. over theen changed years, there are more of us. i agree with the caller. host: republican line, this is buzz from maryland. caller: i agree with most of what you're saying but i take exception with the ferguson thing. he went for the cops gun but other than that i'm with you. a theory goingg

through my head that sounds crazy. when i think about some of the really bad neighborhoods around the country and what you were talking about where police are heavily militarized and are not really engaging with the community, i started thinking about special forces and what they do. they go into villages that invite them in and even though they are obviously able to take care of business on the military end of the gun, their deal is to work with the villagers and to do counterinsurgency. you bring them around and these villagers end up becoming , people.nment they stopped doing the bad stuff. i'm sorry we lost the call.

do you want to respond to anything he said? when thesten, baltimore riots were going on, i was talking to some african-americans in the inner-city and i talked to one lady who said she had two teenage sons. she said they called the neighborhood they would -- bv eirut. they said it's because of the arrests by the policeman and the way they treat the kids. that is happening in the inner cities. that could change. have to move away from militarism asian and moved to community support. working with the community. from militarism and move into midi support. them off yourr porch because you had the fourth amendment in your back pocket and you knew what it said. community relations can change that and police should be working with it. i work with good cops today who say they are changing their philosophy.

insurance fell, virginia during the ferguson situation i talked to local policeman who said there was a march downtown. i said one of you guys just not ?how up in full combat gear regular uniforms and watch and let people walk by, shake their hands and say we encourage free speech. .hey did it it was very peaceful, people came to me later and said hey, this works. the policeman were friendly. why not be friendly. we are citizens, let's work together for the community and get freedom back. then we can stop worrying about washington, d.c. i've worked in and out of the sea for years and sued a lot of politicians. corruption buthe let's get our community relationships back together. host: from wyoming, kathy. caller: mr. whitehead, you are

spot on and thank you. i have a quick comment and question. and i havey activist fought the dmv regarding the real id act because of the excessive documentation they require us to provide just to get a drivers license. also, the post office used a lame excuse with homeland security and reasons they wanted more documentation. just to take a po box. my son wanted to be in marching band so we had to give up his fourth amendment rights because of random drug testing policies. i do fight these things as much as i can but i get resistance from everybody because of national security. my question is, how true is it or can you elaborate on and i think it's the nda a or patriot act that states that citizens can be held in custody without charge indefinitely. how true is that? the national defense

authorization act which has been re-signed by president obama does allow the military if you are a terrorist but the word extremist is used. it allows the military to come to your door, arrest you, and take you away. we had that earlier with the marine who was taken from his door. dhs,was spearheaded by the they spearhead these raids. in this country if you are labeled in extremist and on that list, you can be rounded up. someone earlier said they don't believe this police state stuff. what this lady is talking about is happening across the country. excessive documentation, the slightest mistake, you become an outcast in your community. some people have trouble getting credit cards and loans. sometimes for saying the wrong thing on facebook. is this stuff true?

yes. it is documented in the book. most people out there are very lonely because many people have bought into the idea that we need all this to be safe. but san bernardino showed us it doesn't really make you safe. the average terrorist shooting .as happened in this country what is the first thing you are supposed to do when you walk into a building if you are worried about something like that? anybody? nowhere the exit is. there are other steps. the government should be training us. local government should be training us. you can do it very effectively. we are not being told. surveillance,o do they should give us programs and show us how to stop getting killed when they bumble like the tsa that cannot get bombs and weapons.

host: we have only a minute but after you've heard the argument that says you have nothing the hive -- nothing to hide. what is the big deal? guest: listen, the big deal is our constitution. even you want freedom or you don't. the constitution requires probable cause and a reason for the government to do it i didn't mention the x-ray vans that police have. drones that will have x-ray scanners going over your house. even you want freedom or you don't and that's the choice you have to make. .t is an important choice the future hangs on the average american making the right choice. as patrick henry said, give me limit -- give me liberty or give me death.

>> on the next washington thenal, author of a book on gop current presidential race. a book on about payday lending and banking services for the poor. washington journalists live with comments, tweets, 7:00 a.m. onls at c-span. this weekend, friday night at eastern, honoring dick cheney at the capital with the unveiling of a marble bust in the emancipation hall. when the president had people going off the deep end, he asked, is it above you when -- does it bug you when people

refer to me a start vader? it she replied, no, humanizes you. [applause] >> saturday night, a look at policing in small towns and race relations. >> most people get defense of the if they feel like you are being offense of. being very respectful in and requests, if it is not a crisis or dangerous situation, request versus demands man's change the dynamics. 2:00,day afternoon at race and the criminal justice system. and at 6:30, washington ideas festival. the cheering former vice gore and in murray

slaughter. the word, to banish he is helping. you are still figuring out what needs to be done, you were asking him to help. he is not the agent. he is the assistant. if we are going to get to where we need to go, men have to be fully equal co-parents. more, go to c-span.org. >> three days after the san bernardino shootings, the muslim public affairs council held its annual convention in long beach, california. this focused on coverage of muslims in the media and how publicn be heard on issues. this is one hour and 20 minutes.