to the white house and into the classroom. cam year our student classroom. this year, our student cam ocumentary contest asks students to tell us what issues they want to hear from the presidential candidates. follow c-span's road to the white house coverage and get all our student bout cam contest at c-span.org. here on c-span, "newsmakers" is ors with national educat assocation president lily eskelsen garcia. then some of this year's washington ideas forum with senator mark warner and former vice president al gore. on "q&a", our conversation with tyler abell, the step son of the colonist group pearson. >> this week on "newsmakers," the president of the national educators assocation, lily eskelsen garcia. thank you very much for being

here lily: i'm so happy to be here. >> we have two reporters to help us with questioning. lauren and maggie. though with the president signing an update to behind law, left the every student succeeds law. lily: you did see me float in you? didn't my feet haven't even touched the ground yet. this is the most misteric thing us in a happened to lock, long time, and history isn't always a good thing. historic in a really bad way. ne of those bad ways was in 2002 when they passed with great was this little thing called no child, untested, and we've been living under this no child dark thing for 14 years. and almost a year ago, when we said we are going to start a campaign to reauthorize this

law, get rid of the things that and really eally strengthen the things that we need it improve our schools, friends said, yeah, right. with this congress that can't agree on what day it is today, they're going to change something big, like no child long, long took a time, but the signed a very bipartisan bill, bipartisan isn't always good, but this time it was. and we're still in, like, happy things are going to e really, really better for 52 million public school children. one of the things that was us down as ragging public schools , republicans and democrats, without asking any teachers, any educators, not a school principal, we need to know how

went, s are doing, and we absolutely. so we give them one standardized test in the spring. we'll set a quota of kids that have to hit that cut score and point, thes it by one kids a failure, teacher is ineffective and the school is having met ot adequately yearly perfection, punished.e will be great idea. without asking anyone what the unintended consequences to children with disabilities, to children learning english, to bad ren who are having a day because they had a fight with mom this morning, what that say you're only going to look at one score on a standardized test in reading and math and nothing else matters. it passed. and school districts have tried to meet the mandates of this law, but you can't. one of the -- one of the the magical that by ear 2014, which just passeded

us by, 100% of human type to hit the score. if one child in the school school in reading or math, one or the other, by the entire school would be labeled a failure and subject to punished. teachers would be fired. principals fired. the school would be closed down as a failure. everybody for 14 years knew what was coming. absolute that this horrible thing was going to find a and nobody could way out. to changed and brought us this point is it was so bad that i think republicans and democrats this time decided to do something different. they said maybe we should have educators before we 2002.ed it in we told them to not only get rid of the bad things, here's what

you should replace it with, better indicators. test. just a standardized graduation rates. how many kids are earning college credit before they high school? proficiency of english language learners. ow fast are they learning english? have many measurements that actually talk about the whole child, and the thing that we think will be the big game changer, at least one, we hope there will be many but at least one indicator for the first time johnson 5 when lyndon signed this. to ill have, schools have report, and what are some of the opportunities to learn that are school. let's measure some of the things that you provided those children, the services, the supports. do you have a school librarian. the school nurse, the school psychologist. do they have access to advanced placement courses? do they have access to the arts and sports? so now, we've got a law that

says there will be a dashboard of indicators and now the race is not to the top of some testing pile. it's to the state legislature who now have the responsibility to fill in that dashboard with better indicators. >> one of the mounting arbitration with this law is shrinking government, that it could potentially allow states to share districts the responsibility for disadvantaged and historically underserved children. the young age role going forward in partnering potentially with states and that s, making sure doesn't happen? lily: it was always the intent of the originally named elementary and secondary education act. we loved it when it had a boring name name, in 1965, to do what you suggestion.

rights, uring the civil during desegeration of schools there. if you were in a white affluent neighborhood, your children had everything in the school they needed. if you were in a poorer minority ignored.y, they were and it was an acknowledgment at hat time that school districts and states did not treat equally. it never demanded that they treat children equally. it, asically acknowledged accepted it, and said so the least we can do is give you some poverty ey for high schools and libraries and eacher training, meaning tutors. law takes at the new it closer to what the elementary ry education act was supposed to do. multiple indicators of how that school is doing. but the game changer, again -- and what did you provide those children? it's up to us now as advocates for kids with disabilities, kids

poverty, kids who face discrimination, and nstitutional racism, to go in and say, the indicators we want re to see what kind of service and support that children in affluent communities have and ompare that to the service and supports that children in poor communities have. first of all, the information, we need it to be transparent, and we need the that not all children have equal access to to learn.unity none of that was happening for to ears, so someone wants say, oh, but if we change it, or we've lost something, no one can under 14 rgument that years of test and punish, it was better for poor children, better for minority children, better for children with disabilities. really good schools doing a great job were labeled bad. but i think it was even more dangerous that there were some schools that had push-out

doing things were that actually hurt children. it. getting rewarded for they were labeled good. o this time we'll have real information and we'll be able to use it to advocate for all children. maggie: could you talk a little more specifically about that, just to follow up, when the nea is giving advice to states on how to mentor schools, is that put as littleo be emphasis on tests as possible emphasis on ab test core work? i think a lot of people would softer e are new indicators. lily: there's nothing soft about looking at the whole child. in fact, i think that's part of , is that in 2002, legislators had never taught children would say, i

need a number, a hard number. so in their experience, oh, everybody's taking standardized tests. that should be a great thing. but when people start to think about their own experience with wow, ardized testing that, they didn't have to create anything. they didn't have to make an argument. hey didn't have to work collaboratively. it wasn't a project. there are a lot of things that -- take a a school sports team, the kinds of life skills that you learn. i was meeting with the director olympics yesterday, talking about the opportunity we liketo even look at things the arts and sports. he said when you look at what children with disabilities have in terms of access to a real experience, the teamwork, build, idence they the -- just being able to create omething that is going to stay with them for the rest of their lives and compare that to

emorizing something for a standardized test. you can't convince me, a sixth grade teacher, you can't putting on a at play or looking at a science project is soft. that was some of the hardest work my students ever did. they learned more from that, stuff that doesn't show up on a standardized test is really the most important skills that are taught in the school. to we have the opportunity go up to the state level, but also there are decisions that will be made on the district level and there are other decisions that will actually be building level by the people who know the names of the kids. level. the most powerful it's time to turn it on its head. decision owerful makers subdue the people who actually know the names of the kids. that's what we're going to go up and advocate for. auren: so this law won't

really be implemented in the 2017-2018 til the school year, but the department is jumping right on the regulating process. i was wondering what you're looking for in the particulars as they lawyer this out. lily: we're doing the same. i think everybody that believes potential here for changing the face of public education from test and punish and using test scores for prizes or punishments are saying, it's a new day. the country woke up last friday new world. it was the first time we weren't under this national cloud of no child left. o we have an implementation team on a national level so that our state affiliates, our local affiliates, and all the coalitions that are being built with them, the school psychologists and parent groups, and disability rights groups, civil rights groups, coalitions

together on the building, the district, and the state level like you've never seen before. and what they're looking for from the national educators assocation is show us a framework. study this law and tell us what to really nities are start advocating for the services, the programs, the and the voice of the educator, and the parent that says, this is my kid's school. i should have something to say about this. things will pretty -- were pretty much shut out with no child left, pretty this is the only thing only ounts, this is the thing we'll look at when we say your school has made adequate progress. those were all illusions. they weren't something real. states will be moving quickly and changing big policies they have in place,

like accountability systems and teacher evaluations. lily: right, because the accountability system under no child left under the federal said, hit your y what we ids, liked -- the one thing we really out of the 2002 no child left, for the first time, the data.aggregated they didn't give us the right data. only standardized testing data. they said, we want to see where the gaps are between affluent children and poor children and minority children and children with disabilities, and children who are english language earners, because those populations of kids that were so seriously disadvantaged, where they came to school needing so much, and the law said, people should know if they're -- not only what they're getting, but we should know how they're doing. give no child left didn't us any information about what hose children were getting,

what they were receiving, the programs and the services that they could expect. they hit their test score, and if they didn't, here are the four punishments. the principal gets fired. half the teachers gets fired. the school gets closed down and opened up as a charter school as charter schools had the answer. the school gets closed down and the kids get redistributed. four selections that a community could have. that when there are persistent re are gaps in whatever it is that school is doing, there are many indicators that things are moving in the right direction, you must have an intervention. come in and do a serious analysis, what's going on in this school. aren't welcome. what are you going to to do to bring parents into this process? need to s that you train teachers in something very different, in cultural

competence. maybe you took away their arts and sports programs, and the kids are bored to tears with test, a rizing for a standardized test. but what is it are you going to do in that school and what are you going to measure? and not at the end of the year hen it's too late to do anything about it, what are going to be your benchmarks that everybody comes together in a collaborative, professional way to say, this isn't working, and we need to do some course working n, or this is fabulous, and we need to ramp it up. those kinds of decisions should be made by the people who know and we've got an that to ty to bring li life. been looking e forward but i want to look back. moment an interesting where the bill was actually more in line with the republican party than the democratic party

hen it came to realizing this law, and i'm curious what that says to you about where the democratic party is on education right now. it's an interesting moment i with a lot of different views but what was it like working with democrats on this? lily: well, i think that a lot of people believe that there's this simple thing like teachers love democrats and don't like republicans. most of my nea members in utah are republicans. members really reflect the communities they come from, and what we saw here didn't play out by party. out by individuals. so you might have had a saying, an individual for one reason, i really believe these are decisions that should be made on the school district level, not in the halls of congress, and we agreed with that. however, we also agreed that there should be funding for title 1 ducation and schools. the very same person that might have said, i like the decisions

on theruction to be made school level might have also aid, and i'm not crazy about special education at all, we'll part ways on that one. you had some of the democrats perhapsly believed that high-stakes consequences for not itting test scores on tests were a way to show the public how kids were doing. we disagree that somehow test nd punish based on a standardized test is helpful to students. we believe you need to have multiple measures. patient's y took a temperature and the doctor only knew if you had a fever and was making big high-stakes decisions about your healthcare, based on temperature, you're going to end up in trouble. and so what we were always saying is that test tells you some very limited information, know, that's all you we're going to start making

mistakes about what that child needs. so we might disagree on where a ual fits with that individ democrat, but then they talk about affordable college and pecial education and funding for english language learners, and they're saying, what can we there? lp you and we'll come together with that person. we saw i think come together there is we looked at he numbers in support of this new law, the every student ucceeds act, when we end up with a house of representatives that constantly are fighting thing, and youest yes votes, wow. that was amazing. when you end up with 82 votes in the senate out of 100, wow, how did we get there, where it really didn't seem to be the party that was the game changer

here. truly, that both sides said, we recognize that we are here, that we k had a law that said 100% of our going to be above average. a joke on prairie home companion under our law, and watch, if we just keep doubling idea, shame on us. and instead of sitting in a dark smoke-filled room and saying, so, what are we going to change, what i saw on both sides, what i saw from the democrats and republicans, they were willing to listen to the educators. they were willing to listen to the teacher. they were willing to listen to worksaraprofessional that with special-ed kids. and what we did different this time, we met with every senator, congress heard from someone back home, from the teachers, from the parents, students even from the back home, from the support

andf and the administration they said here's what the no child left, no ability to teach and those kids like to learn, and here's what we're asking to consider. i can't tell you, republican and democrat, how many of these who said,s i sat with are people here -- and they started crying, i'm talking teacher and rade she starts crying. that's not fair. our lobbyists aren't on k street. our lobbyists are the second grade teachers, the high school chemistry teacher. we put educators, students and parents in front of those folks, tell them , you what's happening. and it's hard to disagree with i eone who's crying saying, don't think i can be a teacher anymore because i think i'm hurting my kids. we wanted a way out of this, and we showed them a way out. and we're just grateful that both parties listened to us.

host: we have time for a couple of more questions. lauren: great. so at the end of this month, education ernie duncan will be stepping down. t's safe to say that you've enjoyed a somewhat timultuous relationship with the obama administration and the department in general. this id you learn from relationship? did they prod you in any way to sort of reassess the role of the unions? that sort of have relationship with the department and secretary duncan. i've been asked, you know, a lot of times, you know, what our relationship was like. and i always want to begin with, i think he's a very sincere honest and he's a very person. he wants to be open about how he feels. he never threw any punches, he never told us one thing and did another. we had some really honest disagreements on key things like the role of standardized testing

and what that test should should be the t results, whereas someone says, held someone should be accountable. for a child that comes to school hungry and has a hard time learning, for a class of 39 graders that i've had in my -- so i should be held every child hat hits the cut score on a standardized test and i get to i ck that box and go, oh, must be a good teacher. if i can't change that box, i teacher.a bad kids don't come to us in that one-size-fits-all box. what kids need from us, i taught at a homeless shelter for years, needed at that shelter school was very different than what i taught in the suburbs. so we had a difference of opinion on how simple something accountability or what it

to succeed.child but we always had lines of communication. as much as i wanted to tell you he was very honest and open, i think i was very honest and open to say,m and very direct that doesn't work, and i disagree with you, and we'll be doing this and sorry we can't work together on that. but we never got angry at each other, because then we start talking about preschool, and we go, yay, all right, we're both preschool. page with what about college, yes. so i think it's always a mistake when we say, we have a serious disagreement with this person on this very important issue, so i talk to you again. you're the bad guy, you're the enemy. the more the world starts to look like that, when you can't honest disagreement with someone and then find ways on other important issues where we can work together, we've lost

some of that ability in the ublic debate, and then we see that right now playing out on a ot of political levels, even globally. so the one thing i hope that e'll always do as educators is be that example of saying when i disagree with you, you'll know it, and you'll know why. question? al maggie: yes, looking ahead to this coming year, especially big change f this with the education bill, i'm curious if you could talk about the nea's plans for the coming elections. you know, it's actually -- i'm thinking in kind of two piles here, one is the states where you see issues that are important to the unions, whether it be right to work or something hot spots and ng on the other hand, spending, talking about candidates, big layers when it comes to watching people on the local and national levels. lily: right. politically.ctive we're good citizens.

and like i said, our members reflect the communities they come from. so those state affiliates and ur local affiliates will make decisions on things like recommendations on congressional races, senate races. the nea is supporting hillary for the n the primary democratic primary. and then there will be other ecisions that are made as we move forward. but everything from schoolboard legislative and overnors' races, everything is going to be just front and well, for us, because -- look at what just transpired ith 14 years of a political decision in 2002. decisions make huge that affect the lives of our students, whether or not our schools have the resources that or not our hether voices are respected, and we look at our work far beyond that public school. we look at the whole community,

nd we believe that these races are important to the broad middle class that depend on that public school for everything that that family wants to accomplish with their children. host: sorry we have to leave it there. time. out of we appreciate you being this week's "newsmakers." thank you very much. lily: appreciate it, thank you. with and we're back reporters lauren of u.s. news nd world report and maggie of pol politico. she's very happy about the president of the nea. in fact, what are some of the people have with this new law? lauren: sure, the new law gives states and school districts the create ity to sort of their own education systems, everything from how they envision their accountability system set up, to whether they

want teacher evaluations and how those teachers evaluations. it also gives them the freedom to choose whatever standards, want.mic standards they so if they have the common core now, for example, they could reassess and maybe choose a standard. it gives them incredible flexibility. and one of the things that is to sort of pop up in terms of people being concerned about what could happen with next couple ofhe years is that in giving so much states, ity over to the it really begs the question of accountable will be for the lowest achieving achieving o it's schools. disadvantaged, historically underserved schools, and acting on behalf of them from the government is sort of kept out of this. entt: is the federal governm going to play some sort of accountability role? what will they be looking at? maggie: they'll still be playing an accountability role,

just kind of making sure that states do this minimum set of sure that these students are looked after. but the debates where we're where should it, that floor be? where should the minimum be? what's going to happen now is in states there's going to be a huge battle state by state, kind of waged between the unions and other big groups. the chamber of commerce is this, civil rights groups are interested in this, how states set up these systems, that need to be approved by the federal government but i think eople are now looking at the state as being that primary protector, but they're hoping having the back fall of the federal government will work. they're not sure. host: you heard her say that the national educators ssociation has an implementation team there ready, they're gearing up. what does that mean? maggie: i think it's interesting because i think one saw this yearnd i is that when the reauthorization strategy started up on capitol talking, people were and they were there first and

there the whole time and i think you're seeing that about to happen in the states too. lily talked about how they send eachers, but they spend literally millions of dollars on in theitol and spend big states to make sure their views are heard and priorities are reflected when the states start adjusting their education system. lauren: and i think i asked the question she didn't really answer fully in how are we going to start seeing states change, some of the systems they have set up already, and i think that's probably going to happen very quickly. you already saw, for example, the new york state board of days ago couple of oll back the wait of student tests for teachers evaluations and i think you're going to start seeing a lot of other states do similar things with accountability systems. before, e mentioned also, over the next several months, the education department is going to be sort of