>> you say that your predictions are 80% accurate. how do you weigh the dangers of a third world war? >> mike, at the moment, i don't think there is too great a danger, because i think, for the russians and we both realize that a war would be catastrophic and that no side would win. furthermore, i think the russians figure they can get what they want without a war by the cold war, by psychological warfare, by economic warfare. [end video clip] brian: mike wallace interviewing him in 1957. how big a deal was he in those years? tyler: he was a pretty big deal. he had a video broadcast, a weekly radio broadcast where he made a reference to predictions. he was a very good predictor. and part of his video broadcast was about five or six minutes of predictions.

he wasn't always right. in fact, he predicted that dewey would win in 1948. but he was right about world war iii. and he talked a lot about that later on in the book, "the drew pearson diaries." it covers 1960 to 1969. several places in there, he talks about the danger of war and how the russians -- he doesn't think the russians really want war. he interviewed the biggest russian leader of that era several times, khrushchev. khrushchev works into his thoughts and dealings with the russians frequently.

brian: there is a lot -- i want to just lay down some of the things he did and tell me if any of this is right or wrong. first to report of general patton slapping the soldier. tyler: 1943. brian: general douglas macarthur sued him for defamation, but pearson threatened to publish his letters from his mistress. tyler: yes. and macarthur backed off. in fact, those letters are still around. i got a call about them several years ago from a guy who just researched them because he was a -- because his lawyer at the time he died -- he left all his papers to the university of texas. so those letters popped up when morris ernst died. brian: senator mccarthy, what was his relationship to him? tyler: at the very, very beginning, he regarded mccarthy

as an interesting source. but pretty soon, he got very crosswise with mccarthy because mccarthy was promoting anti-communism with such an abandon that he regarded almost everybody, including george marshall, as a handmaiden of communism. george marshall was the secretary of state, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, and one of eisenhower's best friends. everybody got mad at eisenhower for not doing a better job defending mccarthy. -- i mean, attacking mccarthy for doing that. one famous occasion was when mccarthy attacked drew in the cloakroom of the celebrate club. of all the people to get credit for breaking up the fight, it was richard nixon. later, drew sued mccarthy, but

that suit didn't go very far. brian: what moment -- i read these diaries and you are in them throughout as being around drew pearson. what personal moment do you remember the most of being his stepson? tyler: that is a question that i have had to think about. he and i were so close that it was, you know -- he was a remarkable person and he really loved his family. he was very, very helpful to me in so many different ways. and he was really very much a father. i can't think of one instance. there were just too many. brian: your mother married him when you were how old? tyler: 4 years old. brian: there is a moment in the book, in the diaries, where he

wants you and is recommending you to be a part of a kind of kitchen cabinet for lyndon johnson. what were those circumstances? tyler: just one of the examples of how amazing drew was. i mean, here he was, writing a column seven days a week, giving lectures, doing a radio broadcast once a week, and running a farm. but he thought johnson should have some extra help running his campaign. at the end of the campaign, he says, johnson did it all himself, which was really true but he recommended that johnson pick several people to work behind the scenes and do things that would help the campaign. i was one. leonard marx was one.

ernie, bob martin. we call ourselves the 5:00 club because we met at the white house, upstairs in the back office, at 5:00 every afternoon. we thought up how we could do something that would shake up goldwater or be a plus for the campaign. brian: how many newspapers published his column? tyler: he took credit for 650. and i'm not sure. there might have been more. i remember once, this is when i was a little boy. i said, the farmworkers think that you are not spending enough money on the farm because you are in 600 papers. it says on your radio broadcast that you are published in 600 papers. and if you just got a dollar a paper a day, you would be rich!

and he said, well, but some of those papers are weeklies and they only pay less than that. maybe only $1 a week. it was an interesting conversation. i have never forgotten it. the number of papers went back and forth and up and down. brian: one of the things -- i underlined a lot in the book and a lot of the quotes -- these are out of context, but i am sure you can put them in perspective. here is one talking about jacqueline kennedy. it is early in the book. this is what he says -- your stepfather writes, "this is a cold gal, who, deep down doesn't have much sympathy for the aims of her husband and wouldn't know a social reform when she saw one." tyler: i remember that quote. he goes back-and-forth about

jackie as he does about a lot of people. i remember once him saying that his wife thinks that jackie is just lazy and that's why the white house dinner wasn't a better dinner, because jackie was lazy. he doesn't adopt that himself. he ascribes that to my mother, his wife. and he has a few cold things to say about jackie from time to time. i don't know the exact context of that quote. brian: what were his politics? tyler: he was quite demonstrably a progressive. which i guess today you would say he was far left. in those days, a progressive would be -- a progressive of that era would not be considered that far to the left, i don't believe.

i have been wondering how he would regard the current political situation with the division between the parties. i don't think he would have been for bernie sanders. i'm not sure how he would have felt about hillary. hillary has got so much money that i think that would have turned him off. but i don't know who he would have been for. brian: the one thing that surprised me as i read through it is how often he was involved in trying to get legislation passed. tyler: yes. brian: what was his -- this is from monday, january 20 -- it would have been inauguration day for richard nixon in 1968. tyler: 1969. brian: 1969, absolutely. "this is a big day.

i hated to see it come. i never could have imagined that richard nixon would become president. i was dictating a speech against wally hickel, to be delivered by senator tydings, and forgot to turn on the television to watch nixon." as a journalist, what was he doing getting involved in trying to get somebody defeated for the cabinet? tyler: he did it all the time. he absolutely did it all the time. one of the -- as a journalist, he didn't think that those rules applied to him. he didn't advertise it, but he worked behind the scenes or what he thought was behind the scenes, trying to promote different senators to make speeches and he would write the speech for them about all sorts of different things.

and it is fascinating. how did he have time to write the column and to travel to south dakota to give a speech? it is amazing. brian: when did you decide -- i've got an old column here, back in 1970 -- 1974. so you published the first round. it was between 1974 and today that the two different diaries have been published. tyler: yes. i should have done all three -- i should have done three volumes and i should have done them right away. but i got backed up and short of time. one thing or another. so, i kept postponing. i am a terrible procrastinator unlike my stepfather, who immediately did everything. if he had a column to write, he got up at 4:00 in the morning and wrote it before breakfast. i would figure out how to postpone it until the day after tomorrow.

it was just remarkable, all the things that he did. sometimes he would criticize himself in the diary. if you have read them that carefully, you must have come across different places where he says, "i think that column was too strong, i shouldn't have said it quite that way. or lyndon is going to get mad at me for the way i wrote that column. but he needed to hear it and i'm glad i wrote it." brian: who published the first volume? tyler: winston. brian: how did that volume do? how much interest was there in that? tyler: not as much as i thought there would be. i think that is one of the reasons i kind of postponed the second volume. brian: how many years did he keep a diary? tyler: he started in january 1949.

and he opens up and says, david carr has told me i have to keep a diary. and i am starting right now. and he kept on with the diary. the first few years, he skipped many more days than he did later on. it is interesting that the 1960's he wrote almost every day. not every day is in the published volume. you could hardly pick up the published volume as it is. it is so heavy. it could easily have been twice as big. that is how much had to be left out. brian: and you had a republican to edit this. tyler: yes. a very good friend of mine. peter hannaford, who was a big reagan man. peter and i were in the army together.

we maintained a friendship ever since. brian: and he -- tyler: he just died. very sad. he finished the editing and had just went out on a saturday and signed books at the local bookstore where he lived in eureka, california. and came back, thought things were really good, had been a good day. sold a bunch of books and he never woke up. brian: how much of what was in the diary did you edit out for sensitivity reasons? tyler: zero. brian: put it all in there. tyler: yes. i mean, some of it might have gotten out because -- but there wasn't anything about who slept with who or anything like that that got left out because of -- you know, because we were bashful. brian: there is an enormous amount of who slept with who in this.

why was he so interested in that? tyler: isn't that the way our culture is? it's amazing. at one point, the russians say tell him -- i think the russian ambassador says why is america so into sex? that's all anybody talks about around here. there is a comment that he makes one page. he says i've got enough stuff to write a whole book about love being made in the white house. if i ever get around to it, it will be quite a book. brian: in the middle of the johnson administration, valenti, meaning jack valenti, told me an interesting story about bobby kennedy.

brian: has that ever been published before? tyler: i never read it before. brian: she is still alive. tyler: yeah, and still beautiful. brian: did you read his diary before he died? tyler: yeah. no, before he died, i didn't. i am very sorry, i didn't. i misspoke. brian: what was his attitude about having this published? tyler: he said -- he obviously thought it should be published, because in his

will, he said tyler abell should be the editor of my diaries. so i went around looking for the diaries and there is a lot, just a lot to where i finally put them all into three-ring notebooks. there were 24 notebooks. standard notebook about that thick. a very small part of it was about sex, but it was there. brian: one of the things i noticed is that he was having dinner or lunch all the time was somebody with somebody that is a well-known name. i will just pick one of them now and ask you about her. agnes meyer. tyler: yes. brian: who was she and why did they have so many lunches and

dinners and trips on yachts together? tyler: agnes meyer was a wonderful person. and a very good friend of drew's. i knew her a little bit just because drew knew her, but i saw her rarely, but enough to say hello. i called her mrs. meyer. she was kay graham's mother. kay graham -- agnes' husband was eugene meyer. he is the one who bought "the post" out of bankruptcy and made "the post" into a going concern. he was a very good businessman. and he died -- i never met him. i can't remember exactly when he died. but agnes just sort of adopted drew and my mother, who was a charming lady. and they were good friends.

it is interesting to read how frequently they were together. she took them on boat trips. but she took everybody on the boat. you would have loved to have been on that boat. i mean, there was the chief justice of the united states and lightest using -- headline stephenson drew pearson, a , couple of other interesting people you would have loved it. and drew enjoyed it. brian: what's the story of when agnes meyer and drew pearson went to see khrushchev on the yacht? tyler: i can't remember all the details of that, but drew had been angling to get another interview with khrushchev. when he was on the yacht, it was his second one. and he was going back and forth with various russians -- russian

in-betweens to get another interview with khrushchev. and finally, just as a surprise, they were on the yacht in the black sea and the word came that you, drew, have to come immediately to see mr. khrushchev. he is waiting for you. and so there was just a very fast auto trip to khrushchev's place. i and they spent a couple of hours and then came back. whereas before, the first interview drew had with khrushchev, they spent three days together. and drew and my mother slept there. they talked all the time. had their meals together. went swimming together. had a wonderful time together. brian: i didn't count them, but

i will guess that 25 times in this diary, he is having lunch or dinner with anatoly doe -- anatoly, the ambassador from russia to united states. why was he so interested in russia and why did they talk to him so much? tyler: that is a question that i would love to answer myself. i just -- it is amazing how much of drew's time was spent with the russians. and then the fbi was covering the russian embassy. so they knew when drew went in and out of the russian embassy. and at one point, he was accused by the president of the united states of spending all of his time with anatoly, and you are in there at 2:00 and 3:00 in the morning. and so drew goes back and talks with his wife and says when did we ever go to the russian embassy at 2:00 or 3:00 in the

morning? and my mother said they must have the date wrong or the time wrong. i bet the fbi said it was 2:00 p.m., and when it got transcribed a couple of times, a -- it came out as 2:00 a.m. and drew is not sure about that. but he did spend an awful lot of time with the russians. russia and the united states were the two biggest powers. each of them had the nuclear capacity to blow the other one completely off the face of the earth. and had there been a war, it would have been terrible. and there was a certain danger of a war. one misstep and it might have happened. brian: you made the connection earlier with agnes meyer and "the washington post" and kay graham and all that. his column was published in "the post." but as far as i can remember, it

was in an unusual place that they put that column. where was it and why? tyler: it was on the comic page. and drew was always proud that it was on the comic page. some people made fun of it and thought it should be in the editorial page. he said, no, i'm published every day and everybody reads the comics and that's a good place to be. brian: it wasn't that way in every paper, though. tyler: no. brian: there is not much video of him. we did find this mike wallace interview so that people could hear what he sounded like. here is another 20-second excerpt from that 1957 interview. [video clip] >> i've predicted that mr. nixon will become president of the united states within approximately a year. i think mr. nixon will make a better president than mr. eisenhower. the reason i say that is that

mr. nixon has trained for this job. [end video clip] brian: it did not work out so well for him on that prediction. tyler: no. two presidential elections he has been wrong on. there is one later in the diary, where it is -- i think it is early 1968, and he predicts that, if nixon is nominated, he will lose. but he just predicts that in the diary. as far as i know, it did not appear in a column or on the radio. brian: in 1964 in the diary, he did say this -- i have already come to the conclusion that ike has no guts. why didn't he like eisenhower? tyler: that's a very good question. i was with him in 1951. we were in europe together.

and he sought out ike. we talked for a while. that was the only time i think i ever personally met eisenhower. i was a freshman in college. so, there was a personal relationship. but as a president, he didn't do what drew would have liked to have done. and i don't think there was one specific thing. maybe mccarthy. because a lot of people criticized ike for not taking after mccarthy. and eisenhower, i think, had the opinion that, the more he went after mccarthy, it just picked him up. the best thing to do with mccarthy was to ignore him. brian: today, this is an old

story. it has been written many times. but back in that 1957 interview, it is about john f. kennedy. we will run it. it is only 30 seconds. at the time, he doesn't even remember the name of the fellow that he is accusing of writing "profiles in courage." [video clip] >> i don't think he should have -- you should have a synthetic public relations buildup for any job of that kind. jack kennedy is a fine young fellow, a personable fellow, but he is not as good as that public relations campaign makes them -- him out to be. he is the only man in history i know who won a pulitzer prize on a book which was ghostwritten for him, which indicates the kind of public relations build a -- buildup he has had. >> who wrote the book for him? >> i know that the book, "profiles in courage," was written for kennedy by somebody else. [end video clip]

brian: was the diary separate and distinct from what he wrote in his column? tyler: the diary was totally separate and distinct. but let me comment about the little clip you just showed. don't you find it interesting that, fairly recently, the news has carried a lot about who wrote "profiles in courage." ted sorensen was the person who clearly wrote a lot of it. but since the pulitzer prize winning author and ted sorensen are both gone, i don't think anybody is ever going to know exactly who wrote how much. brian: drew pearson in the diary wrote the following statement on december 20. i don't have the dates here. it was during, when jack kennedy was president.

[laughter] brian: he writes a lot about joe kennedy and women. and that his sons followed his example. tyler: my mother recalls that she sat next to joe kennedy at dinner one night. if she told me, i can't remember where the dinner was. and the next morning, she got a very fancy bouquet of flowers from joe kennedy. brian: what was your mother like and what was her name? tyler: her name was you leave -- butler moore.

she married my father, then divorced him, and married drew pearson. she went by the name livvy moore pearson most of her life. but she got the message from joe kennedy that, had she wanted to respond to those flowers, it would have been easy. brian: another entry, friday october 23, 1964. i haven't marked off the different chapters. here's what he wrote.

brian: what is the background on that story? tyler: i don't know. i don't know. i had heard those rumors and i guess for drew it was more than just a rumor. he thought that j. edgar was homosexual. brian: did you ever talk to him about his columns? tyler: sure. in fact, i worked for him for a while. brian: what did you do? tyler: i was elevated pretty quickly. he let me investigate and write. if i wrote something that he liked, he published it. i wrote plenty that never got published, but it was quite an experience. brian: when did you feel his power? when did you notice it?

tyler: he was so different in person. if you didn't know him, you couldn't believe how different he was. there is a note in that book you are holding in your lap when he goes in to see george bundy. and bundy is telling him about vietnam and things like that. and drew is very critical of bundy. as he talks with bundy for some time, he realizes he has been there long enough and he gets up to leave. and he quotes bundy as saying, "well, don't be in such a hurry to leave. you're so much more personable in person than you are in print." [laughter] unless you knew the man, you would think that he was just a demon. because things he wrote about were pretty bad.

and he would tear people up. but when you talked to him, he was the nicest guy in the world. brian: what was his relationship with arthur goldberg? tyler: very close. brian: who was arthur goldberg? tyler: that is a very good question. i guess a lot of people would not remember arthur goldberg. i think of him as almost an uncle. he started life in the labor world and was the chief negotiator for the steelworkers. steelworkers? i think the steelworkers. one of the major unions. and kennedy made him secretary of labor. and then later made him associate justice of the supreme court. he was kennedy's second

appointment to the supreme court. the first being white. and then johnson talked goldberg into leaving the supreme court to become ambassador to the u.n. and drew had known goldberg when he worked -- i think he was general counsel of the steelworkers. and that is when drew first met him. but then they just became very close, very, very close. it seems like the day is not complete unless he has goldberg to breakfast, lunch, dinner, or all three. it's amazing. brian: in 1965, he was working with jack anderson. what was jack anderson's relationship to your stepfather? tyler: jack had started working

for drew in probably late 1945 early 1946, as a leg man. drew had several people that helped him gather news and jack was one of those. jack had worked his way up and became the top guy of the leg man group. he was the one who inherited the column when drew died. brian: this is from 1965, this is one of the oval office conversations with lyndon johnson and drew pearson about a piece that jack anderson wrote. were they both writing at the same time, merry-go-round? tyler: they were. sometimes drew would give jack credit and let him write under his own byline. drew was rather protective of that.

most of the time, it was drew's byline. he wrote under the byline of drew pearson and also "washington merry-go-round." "washington merry-go-round" was the book that he published that originally got him fired. since he was fired, he started writing the column. the column was always "washington merry-go-round." occasionally, drew would publish a piece that was almost all written by jack. drew paid jack. he used the column and it was drew's name, but he would tell somebody like lyndon johnson well, i don't remember that column as well as i should because jack wrote it. brian: he even admits in the diary of playing one off the other. let's listen to this conversation with president johnson and drew pearson.

[voice recording] >> say, i've got a problem. did you see jack anderson -- anderson's story yesterday? >> yes, i did. >> i never heard of that, just never heard of him. not one part of it -- someone must've planted that. they quoted how the white house felt and how i felt. if i were mansfield, i would be mad as hell. on my honor, i have never heard a word of it. just out of the clear blue and i felt that was awfully irresponsible to do that that way. >> i thought it was kind of a funny story, too. i talked to jack about it. i cautioned him a little bit about it. in fact, i say a little bit, i cautioned him very definitely. but he claimed he had it right. but i will tell you what i will do. i will talk to him again. i was out of town part of last week. i had to go out to california.

and if it's not right, even if jack doesn't like it, i will write something to the contrary. brian: how close were those two men? lbj and -- tyler: they were very close. they were very close. as a matter of fact, i didn't realize how close they were, even though i worked for both of them at one time or another. i worked for lyndon johnson and i also worked for my stepfather. but in reading the diaries, it came to light how many times they got together that i didn't know about. i asked my wife, who was the social secretary at the white house, if she could remember how many times drew had come to a social function at the white house. and it shows up a lot in the

diary. and she said she didn't recall exactly how many. i said, well, do you think it was a lot? she said i don't think it was a lot. but when you read the diary, i hope everybody listening to this program will read the diary, you will see it comes up time and time again. he and drew and my mother go off to the white house for dinner or lunch. he is always saying something about jack or about lyndon in the book, in the diary. he mainly calls him lyndon. sometimes he calls him johnson. sometimes president. but, frequently he just says lyndon is doing a wonderful job. he is working so hard. i wish i could help him more. but i had to write that column about him because he has gotten too far off on the vietnam thing. and he really needs to get away from that. brian: we have another tape.

before we run it, drew pearson helped write some of the state of the union message that lyndon johnson gave back near the end of his term? tyler: well -- brian: it was not in the middle of his term. it was in 1964, he had just gotten reelected. he had to give a state of the union message in 163 1964. were you aware that he was -- tyler: i was not. that would have been the type of thing that drew would have made sure did not get out. he knew that that diary was not going to get out until after he died. brian: let's listen to this conversation so the you can hear there is a little innuendo here.

[voice recording] >> drew? >> good morning. >> i'm trying to read your speech, but these benighted republican papers won't -- >> didn't you hear? >> i am on the plane. i am in north dakota. >> you disappoint me. you don't even know what's in it, don't you? >> i heard you got a tremendous amount of applause. >> i got 81 applauses. it was a 25-minute speech and it took 41 because of the applauses. and the biggest one, after the introduction and the ovation was "we intend to bury no one and we do not intend to be buried." >> good. >> did you ever hear anything like that? >> i think that's wonderful. >> now don't go home and go bragging to your grandson. [laughter] >> i'm not bragging to anyone except about you. brian: how was he able to keep the friendship going and yet write negative things from time

to time about lyndon johnson and obviously some very positive things? how was he able to suffer the slings and arrows about all the -- slings and arrows of the people he wrote about? tyler: that is a very good question. you are asking about the personality of a man that is one of the most complicated that has ever lived, lyndon johnson. johnson, first of all, the friendship goes back to the very earliest days when johnson first ran for congress. which was in 1937, 1936 or 1937. and it had extended all this time. and drew comments in another little excerpt that is interesting, when he realizes that now johnson is president, he says, this is the first time i have ever really known a president as well as i know

johnson. and i'm going to have to stop calling him lyndon and start calling him mr. president. but drew would write something that he knew johnson wouldn't like. johnson was very thin-skinned. but then johnson also realized that drew was doing him a lot of favors. a lot of people would tell johnson that. there are excerpts where leonard marx, who was a good friend of both of them, would call and tell drew that the president is really down on you about the thing that you wrote the day before yesterday.

but i told him that you are doing much more for him than he could ever appreciate and that he should appreciate the good things you do and not the bad things. and arthur goldberg would call and say the same thing. johnson is pretty smart. he knows that he can't have everything his way. i think occasionally, he would say that to drew. brian: what would you say to folks, the reason to buy this book, what is the advantage? what do you get out of it? tyler: you get a history lesson that is fascinating, that is done by a man who was so remarkable, who would remember everything and could put little pieces in context and remember something that he did way before that relates to something that is happening today. and that makes a context that, i think, makes this history of the 1960's is a fascinating history.

look at all the things that were going on. civil rights and the war in vietnam and the great society that johnson was trying to get going. the cold war was up and down. all of those things were happening. and drew put it in a context that makes it so interesting and very readable. and you talk to true drew. you talk to all the key players. you can open that book up to almost any page and find something interesting. brian: i am going to do that right now. this is 1969, winston churchill has died. earl warren is being sent as an

official representative of the johnson administration -- i think it is the nixon administration by that time. chief justice earl warren says the following -- he appointed him to the court. "eisenhower is probably the most of his man i know, 'the chief remarked.' he had no concern for other people." when you read this, was that the first time you knew that earl warren felt that way about eisenhower? tyler: yes. it was absolutely the first time i could think of that warren felt that way about eisenhower. i've heard that eisenhower -- this was not in the diary, but i had heard that eisenhower told people that the biggest mistake he ever made was appointing warren. maybe warren heard that. warren was quite a guy.

brian: and your father and mother spent a lot of time with -- your stepfather and mother spent a lot of time with earl warren and his wife. tyler: yes, a lot of time. they were very close. brian: he would go to the court and meet with him, seek his advice. tyler: he would be out to the farm a lot. one of drew's best -- one of the things he really loved to do was to go out to the farm and get away from the city, but he would take good friends out there. brian: the farm is where? tyler: it is in montgomery county, maryland, not too far from washington. it is quite close. it is on the potomac. it overlooks the potomac river. it is about 16 miles up the potomac from the white house. brian: and you mentioned that you were working in the johnson administration. what were your jobs? tyler: i was very lucky.

i was the first presidential appointment. he made me assistant postmaster general, a job that i had for several years. and then there was an instance in the diary where drew goes in to see the president about something, and the president is talking about this and that and the other. he is in his pajamas in the lincoln bedroom watching television when drew comes in. he is talking about moyers and then he switches from moyers who is resigning, to be head of "newsday," and he said, "your stepson tyler is leaving. i got a very nice letter from him. that is smart. he should get out of the government for a while and go practice law." brian: did you do it? tyler: yeah. brian: how long did you practice law? tyler: then he wanted feedback

-- me back and i became chief of protocol for him at the very end of his term. then i went back to practicing law after that. brian: but you were chief of protocol when your wife was the social secretary to lyndon johnson. tyler: that's correct. brian: on the same page of the comment about president eisenhower, the following -- tyler: kay halle, a cleveland halle. brian: if you just piece together in here those kinds of

comments about people, you would think that everybody that is in politics is playing to a different rulebook. [laughter] tyler: i'm glad that he didn't endorse that. i think he was right. why kay halle would say that is interesting. brian: but you didn't edit anything out of the diary. tyler: an awful lot got left out. some got left out, but not because it was the wrong thing to say. brian: how did you go about getting this volume published, which is 41 years after the first volume? how hard was it? tyler: it was very hard. i had a lot of trouble finding a publisher. i was very thankful that the university of nebraska agreed to publish it.

they used their potomac imprint rather than the university of nebraska, but it is the university of nebraska that is publishing the book. brian: and why did they do it? did they tell you in the end? tyler: no. i wasn't asking any questions. i said, let's go. i didn't think there would be any problem finding a publisher. but that goes to show how little i know about the publishing business, which has changed dramatically since the first volume was published. brian: you have marked up a lot of quotes in your book. is there anything that you want to pull out of there, that you particularly want to get into this discussion? tyler: i think you are doing great. i wouldn't interrupt you for anything. brian: there is a whole exchange -- tyler: as you can see from this, if we did all of those, you would have to give me a couple more hours. brian: what is it as you are going through with this that interested you the most?

tyler: i would ask myself that exact same question. i never got an answer because you can open to any page and there is something interesting there. and even though it was 48 years ago, it -- you know, you read it and you say, gosh, that's fascinating. brian: james forrestal was secretary of defense and was asked to resign and was a sick man and was put in bethesda hospital and then committed suicide, jumping off the 16th floor. what role did drew pearson or do you think that he played in james forrestal's life? tyler: that's a great question. i wish that i could give you

some real insight into it. but drew was very despondent about that. he was really worried that he was being accurately accused of making forrestal commit suicide. i don't think that was the case at all. i don't think you can write a column about anybody and say anything and have them commit suicide. forrestal was a strange fellow. and he got stranger and stranger, and finally began quite literally having hallucinations. so, he was put in bethesda hospital. bethesda naval hospital, it was called then. where he went off the deep end completely. i think what should have

happened is that the military should have taken better care of him. they knew he was sick. brian: here is one last quote. we are about out of time. this is on page 690. it is 1969, sunday, march 9. brian: how would you sum up the way drew pearson felt about the

kennedys overall? tyler: drew was -- the people that drew was really close to and had real affection for, you could tell. i don't think he was close to or had real affection for the kennedys. and it probably goes back to joe kennedy, jack's father, who did some things that drew disapproved of. he admired jack kennedy. but as he told jack kennedy himself, he said, you know, you would never have gotten elected had stevenson put you on the

ticket in 1956. you would have been just another defeated vice presidential candidate and you would never have been able to recover and become president. i'm not sure that he was right about that. it was interesting that he would say it. brian: where do they keep the archives of all the columns that were written by drew pearson? anywhere? tyler: yes. i'm glad you asked that. that is very interesting. anybody that wants to can get them online at american university. american university has them all digitized. you can go online and pull up a column. the first column was november, 1932. and the last column that he wrote was probably july, june or july, 1969. but then jack was writing them and jack continued.

brian: and he died on what date again? tyler: september 1, 1969. brian: our guest has been tyler abell, stepson of drew pearson. the book is called "washington merry-go-round, the drew pearson diaries, 1960-1969." published by potomac books which is a function of the university of nebraska press. and the introduction for this book is by richard norton smith. thank you very much for joining us. tyler: there are also very good quotes from different people who admired the book, including bob schaffer and cokie roberts and don ritchie. brian: thank you very much. tyler: thank you for having me. i enjoyed it. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] for free transcripts or to give

us your comments about this program, visit us online. programs are also available as c-span podcast. >> if you liked in this interview, there are some other programs you might enjoy. brit hume of fox news. jack doyle discussing popular culture and its influence on politics. and white house senior adviser pat you can in talks about richard nixon and his path to the white house a end his own inexperience. you can find all these and more on c-span.org. >> with congress on holiday

recess, the networks feature a lineup of prime time programming. tonight, laura and others. and notable figures who died in 2015. then a look back at the year in congress. and friday night at 8:00, law activists and journalists examine the prison system into its influence on minorities. on c-span tv tonight, memoirs by activists and a former white house press secretary. wednesday night, authors talk about their books on science and technology. thursday at 8:00 p.m.,

discussions on isis and terrorism. on new year's day, several of our in-depth programs from this year. and on american history tv, the anniversary of the liberation of schmidt. -- liberation of auschwitz. and who would be a better presidential model of a candidate today, calvin coolidge or ronald reagan? and friday night, the playwright and star of the broadway musical, "hamilton," receives a special prize. >> kevin baron looking ahead to

major security threats facing the u.s., terrorism, cyber security and relations with iraq, russia and north korea. later, "e&e' greenwire" manuel quinones talks about the top energy-related stories of 2015. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015]] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] host: as 2015 draws a close, the folks have chosen their person of the year. this year it is angela merkel, the chancellor of germany. number two, according to-time -- "time" is the head of isis and self-declared leader of syria and iraq. and "time" magazine's number three this year, donald trump. a divert list. we will go through the rest of "time's" list, we will go through the rest of them. who is your person of the year?