university. and bloomberg reporter amin sayed in michigan's water supply and aging water infrastructure in other u.s. cities. do you think the tone on immigration helps or hurts in

the 2016 campaign? republican style in at 202-748-8000. mountain pacific at 202-748-8001 . you can also send us a tweet at http://twitter.com/cspanwj. for post on facebook a -- if you are supporting a republican candidate, we want to hear from you. dial in on phone lines depending on where you live in the country. washington post front page this morning, the headlines as the gop brass lauding nikki haley but not too loudly. party leaders that love the governor's upbeat speech are still tiptoeing around donald trump when it comes to immigration.

she talked about the tone on immigration. today >> we live in a time of threats like few others in recent memory. during anxious times, it can be tempting to follow the siren call of the angriest voices. we must resist that temptation. no one who is willing to work hard, abide by our laws, and work with our tradition should ever have to worry in this country. at the same time, that doesn't mean we open our borders. we cannot do that. we cannot continue to allow immigrants to come here illegally. terrorism, we must not let in refugees whose intentions cannot be determined. her response to the republican state of the union address, that part of her speech got reaction on the social media

from conservatives like laura coulter, tweeting things like this. was saying the best thing we can do is turned on the volume. translation: the voters need to shut up. also tweeting out that trump should deport nikki haley. donald trump responded to nikki haley on fox and friends. has no trouble asking me for campaign contributions because over the years she's asked me for a lot of money. it is interesting to hear. were not running she would be in my office asking for money but now that i am she wants to take a week side on immigration. i feel strongly about it illegal immigration and she doesn't. i think the people in her state, it's a great state, i have a

massive lead in south carolina. we have a massive lead and they are incredible people. they feel like i do. because they don't like what's happening in our country. only,republicans independents leaning toward republican, what do you think about this debate? does it help or hurt? frederick in orlando, florida. hello. host: you are on the air. caller: thanks for taking this call. must betand there borders and that republicans worry in terms of terrorism across the border, at the same time we have to take a civil tone when dealing with immigrants. of immigrants.ry a lot come here and do good things.

we need to reach out to more people as opposed to having more adversaries. host: who are you thinking about voting for? caller: like i said, i am independent and still looking but to be honest, between donald trump and bernie sanders. host: frederick in orlando florida. there have been reports that bernie sanders and donald trump are attracting from the same race of voters of independent -- the same base of voters who don't see themselves with any party, the working-class better. here is the opinion of the usa today editorial board. republicans are flaunting the democratic death wish is what the board says. in 2013, a study commissioned by the republican national committee urged the court ethnic voters and pass immigration reform. later,ndum, one year citing the adage that insanity

is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. welcome to the insanity that is the gop. ignoring the rnc, donald trump is calling for mass deportation of the estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants. that marcoo say rubio has been trying to court and to immigration voters by saying he no longer favors the gang of eight measure he worked on. which balanced border enforcement with an arduous path to citizenship. an argument ted cruz supported. he has gone on to say his position as simple, he opposes amnesty and oppose citizenship and legalization. today, tomorrow, forever. as tedthis is unseemly mark marco rubio, to cuban-americans. many americans are conservative on social area -- many latin american candidates were

conservative. rubio areise, and affiliated with the biggest folly. effort by manyd and the gop views ethnicity and immigration as a wedge issue to court white voters. this is why usa today says. this approach does not work today. thanks to the changing nature of the american electorate. glenn bulger and neil newhouse have pointed out the 2016 nominee would need 64% of the white vote. if the democrat matched president obama's showing among latinos, african-americans, and other after voters. is thecruz or rubio republican nominee, he will likely try to temper his message on immigration but that might be hard. in 2012, latinos remembered the harsh rhetoric mitt romney used about self deportation. just 27% of up with the hispanic vote.

we turn to republicans. does this debate over immigration in the republican party hurt or help the gop on election day? steve in california, your next. liker: let me tell you, i nikki haley's rebuttal. i know a lot of hard-core republicans didn't but i tend to be moderate. i will say i like marco rubio. the reason i do is he has a plan regarding immigration. else is tooybody far to the right and courting the base. that will not win them the general election. the right now you are in marco rubio's camp. i'm lettingand everyone know if he doesn't win

i will probably go to democrats. except for bernie sanders. i don't care for him. host: if it is hillary clinton versus donald trump, you switch parties and vote for hillary clinton? caller: i think donald trump is playing -- i wish he was not even in the race. things like what he set up in implied, latinos, he that they are not evangelical? i am and that was a horrible thing to say. americans are overpaid? how could he think that? and say things like that? yes, i would switch over. what do you think -- let me read this part of the washington post. cruz has calculated they can get out white voters who have not voted before in the past. working-class white voters who

are angry and fearful about what's happening in washington. the urgent imperative of republicans. oftorically the party business, money, and power, to broaden their coalition with white working-class voters as the nation diversifies and the gop struggles, presidential hopefuls see this as the key to taking back the white house. , hishave never voted campaign manager said. if they can be convinced to vote, we win. there's been a debate within the party and political class about whether republicans need to diversify or it needs to attract more of the same. in 2016, led by ted cruz and donald trump, the election has moved it toward the latter. your reaction? caller: they need minorities. just to bring out more white voters, just what you are implying or whatever the article

is, won't. work it just won't work. there are too many hispanics. the blacks carried the vote for obama. need the ethnic vote and they won't get it with this group unless it is marco rubio. marco rubio has made it open because he has a plan for immigration. that is steve, and evangelical voter in california. how are you doing today? host: good morning, go ahead. caller: i think the issue with diversifying,tem the reason i say this is because the last guy was making a comment about how black people and things like that, landed obama votes but statistically,

people inat a lot of the communities and urban communities and things like that don't vote. they were pulling and the white voters as politicians want to have been. it is not the racial issues that is holding republicans back, it is the corporate issue holding them back from understanding the diversity that is already in america because we have to think about spanish history. -- war with great britain, they think about the and theymerican war also have history and things like that. ourink we have to diversify cultural view. ist: the opposing view written by dan stein, the president of the federation for american immigration reform.

the title is welcome and long overdue on the tone of the republicans on immigration. amnesty,ranting euphemistically called a pathway to citizenship, is not immigration reform. it is institutionalizing the government's failure to protect the interest of the american people and encourages more illegal immigration. amnesty benefits a legal aliens and does not promote public interest. nearly half of all adult illegal aliens have not completed high school, granting them amnesty will not make them high productivity and higher earning. is make themdo eligible to add to the 51% of immigrants heading households that rely on welfare. amnesty would also exasperate the alarming erosion of america's middle class. as former illegal aliens would be able to compete legally for all u.s. jobs and petition for millions more similarly skilled relatives.

the american people seeking a new direction in the long debate over immigration. their concerns are not motivated immigrantsus towards , but rather the adverse impact fl policies and government's refusal to enforce our laws are having. to the extent the presidential candidates are addressing these concerns is a welcome and long overdue development he argues. harry in fort worth, texas. good morning. caller: good morning. gop,nk it will help the the immigration. but i go back to what teddy roosevelt said about immigration. we welcome everybody as long as being an american and good faith, sm allayed emselves to us, they shall be trouble -- treated -- assimilate themselves to us.

shall not turn anybody away because of their creed or place of origin but it is imperative they become all-american. there can be no divided allegiance. any man who says he is an american but something else is not welcome here. havesh as a language will emphasis and the loyalty is to become an american. the one flag is an american flag. that, marcoll of rubio, when he was part of the gang of eight worked on legislation that laid out a path to citizenship that required immigrants who are here to do what you're saying to take tests, learning list, paid back taxes, and before they would get citizenship. adequate? caller: no. i wouldn't vote for marco rubio. host: because of that?

caller: yes. people come through this state. people come through legally like my grandparents did back in 1910, 1911. and theyg over here should observe our laws and if they don't they shouldn't be here. host: who are you voting for? caller: donald trump. ted cruz is second. either one will be great. but i would vote for ted cruz second. what about donald trump saying we should try to deport all 11 million immigrants that are here and ted cruz is saying you can't do that we are not a police state. you have to verify that verify.s have employees meaning those here would jobs

would leave if they have to verify citizenship. what you think about those differences? caller: i would still go with donald trump. let him deport them, there are ways. that,ou start doing people leave on their own and stop coming in. donald trump speaks from the heart. they won't believe what is going on. the american people have had it. the establishment is not concerned. we are talking to republicans only and the toward ants leaning republican candidate. we will get to more phone calls and want to show you what the governor of south carolina had to say after she gave that speech. she was on the today show and she said she was talking about donald trump when she made those comments.

haley: we are trying to say those voices are not helpful. we have citizens that are law abiding that love our decisions and into everything to be productive in america. they should feel welcome. i am not saying i believe in illegal immigration. i don't. but i do want us to be closer to understanding the reason this country is so great is because of the fabric of america's made by immigrants. >> but when you were talking about the loudest and angriest voices in that context, you are referring to donald trump? haley: he was one of them yes. there are people in the media and in my state but yes, mr. trump has contributed to what i think is irresponsible thought. host: the wall street journal editorial board responding to this call, this criticism of nikki haley and what she had to say.

referring to ann coulter's tweet to deport nikki haley, they say, are we talking about the same person? she signed a law toughening the states is illegal immigration reform act which requires employers to verify the immigration status of new hires, who has fought president obama's bid to resell unfettered refugees and his state has joined 16 others in a lawsuit against mr. obama for what they say is unconstitutional executive order on illegal immigration. , the wall street journal board writes, that many on the right oppose any immigrants, even those who arrive legally. makealso want to opposition to immigration a gop litmus test. a party that rejects nikki haley as a spokeswoman is one that doesn't really want to build a governing majority. we are republicans if you agree or disagree, does this help or hurt republicans? not just on the presidential front but your mother the

senators and house republicans are up for reelection in 2016. what does this do to those races? troy and fort calhoun, nebraska. i'm not republican but i think they are off on the race issue. host: are you a democrat? caller: no, i am a republican. i think republicans are off on the race issue. there's only one race, the human race. the bible makes that clear. racism has been created in this country. and you wouldan think republicans are supposed to be more loving and with christianity. are worse against people coming into this country notit is a race issue, love. it's about hate. it's ugly.

a lot of things have to be cleaned up. host: who do you support? caller: i don't know. i'm not sure yet. tuesday you feel after there is a growing rift in the republican party because of issues like immigration? issue, it's a major haven't heard anybody come out with the right stuff. i've always been extremely conservative but i've learned things from democrats over the years and friends. one from arizona taught me a lot helping the mexican people come into this country. i was like, you can't let them do that they are illegal. and i was so against her for doing that.

when i thought about it, it's like, all she's doing is trying to love people that are hurting. she brought up the point that these people are dying coming over here and dying to come in this country. i know the issue is about terrorism with people trying to come in and hurt us, it's a big mess and it's hard to figure out we don't want people to come in and hurt us but at the same time there are people dying to come in and they are not dying to come because they want to sell drugs, it's because they want a better life. this story in the new york times backs up what you're saying. data links immigrants to low rates of crime. in america and europe, anti-immigration backlash has been followed in which migrants or blame for problems but statistical studies show in the united states they are far more law-abiding than natives regardless of race, class, or education. a study released this past july

that used census and fbi data and other statistical information to rebut stereotypes, it showed that between 1990 and 2013 as the foreign-born share of the united states population nearly doubled and the number of unauthorized immigrations more than tripled, violent crime declined 48% and property crime fell 41%. the study showed incarceration rates of nativeborn americans were far higher than of migrants. the quote from one that did the research, an immigrant does not come here to commit crimes and get on welfare, they come here to work harder than nativeborn people do. this?our thoughts on host: i disagree with the wall street jour -- caller: and that peace there. i live on the border. in el paso, texas. i see the crime and violence, not just here on the border, but coming from the border into el paso, texas.

gunsand forth, they have going across the border. and hitting up city hall downtown. many people who come over here do not go to school or take advantage of this like my parents did. they don't go to school. they want to live on welfare. that's what they come for. i go to mexico and see the women and infants children stuff? the cheese, milk, stuff that is given to single women who have children. and they are selling it over there in mexico. i'm glad the immigration issue has come up. host: who are you supporting? caller: donald trump. host: what if he does not get the nomination or the republican

establishment calls for pushing back on him? should he leave the party and run as independent? caller: no, we are pushing the establishment out. they have no power. we do power will and if they do that, we will push them out. how active are you in this campaign season? caller: very active. veteran, second amendment, i'm a gun owner. i hunt, i fish. host: are you making phone calls for donald trump? caller: no. i tell you what, he has my vote. that's all i have to do. i don't have to donate. host: if he is not the nominee,

and it is not ted cruz and it is more of an establishment candidate, will you vote at all? caller: yes. cruz, nexte for ted best thing, but marco rubio? anti-establishment republicans? anybody who wants illegal immigration to come to the united states, doesn't understand it when you live here on the border. host: but that's what i'm asking you. if there's a candidate that does not agree with you, are you still eating out and voting for that republican nominee -- are you still getting out and voting for that nominee? caller: yes, i want the economy and foreign policy to get better. james in georgia, good morning and welcome. caller: thank you for taking my call. doesur question,

immigration help or hurt? i think it helps. i think it is too emotional. as long as we do things by the law, it has to be done by the law. terrible situation with the economy and racial issues. , its just like obama said is a lot of noise and people getting involved and talking about emotion. i think donald trump did the right thing for bringing this subject up. this is a good subject that needs to be talked about. effortt up, do your best , donald trump, ted cruz, if it doesn't work him a you did your best. don't try to cater to anybody. it's all about america and american people and what's best for this country. host: who did your vote for in 2008 and 2012? caller: i voted for john mccain romney and i voted for

and 2012. host: who are you voting for this time? caller: i love donald trump and i love ted cruz. those are the people i think have the best hope for america. i don't -- i am an african americanuy, i am 65. i just think that this country is going down and there are certain things that need to be brought up and talked about in order for us to get on track. host: do you see hispanic immigrants -- do you believe they are taking jobs from african-americans? say illegaluld immigrants. i want to talk about the illegal ones. if you are here legally, you have as much right to this country and its resources as anybody else.

if you are here legally. we need to talk about illegal. it is about a legal. we have gotten bogged down in all of this emotional stuff, all of this racial stuff. elected.et somebody i think most of that is because they don't want donald trump carrying this topic. host: did you agree with the way nikki haley approached it? caller: you know what, i agree with her. i think the news media is making her out like they prodded her to get her to say something against donald trump. , but i be wrong for this just want to say somebody had something to do with the way she brought up donald trump. i like nikki haley.

host: she was tapped by the majority leader mitch mcconnell. her cap is saying she only agreed to do it if she was allowed to write whatever she wanted and say whatever she wanted. those two leaders do look over the draft of what she put together. but her office says she is the one who wrote it. >> after she spoke, the news media got involved. host: and coulter and lori and graham were instantly tweeting out reaction. the noise is what obama talks about.

host: you said you like ted cruz. he neglected to report a loan he received from goldman sachs where his wife worked. to finance his 2012 senate race. he has told the story that he liquidated all of his assets in order to finance that senate campaign. which he eventually won. the times is reporting that he did not report to the government 's loan. from goldman sachs. what is your reaction? >> here go again. he'd select the people make up their minds. if he said he forgot it, he forgot it. host: neither alone appeared in

reports the ted cruz was obligated to file. candidates are required to disclose the source of the money they borrowed finance the campaigns. there is no evidence that they got a break on their loans. what you think about this debate tonight? christine: my issue with illegal take talk about

the narrative that we are a nation of immigrants. if you don't that the immigrants that came before they didn't come here with their handout. they didn't come here expecting support. for the taxpayers to support them. i don't know what they do. i do think anybody does really. we're supposed to be a country with the border. youou have to come in here have to come in illegally. i agree with what the other gentleman said.

that is what i have to say about it. host: who are you supporting? christine: i like ted cruz and i like donald trump. donald is a little bit bombastic. he really does say what he's thinking. that's it. i haven't made up my mind who i am going to vote for. we have while in michigan. nick: good morning greta. the recent talk about ted cruz getting a loan. over aobama received

hundred thousand dollars his wife did from the university of illinois in chicago. harry truman deported more democratd he was a than any other president history. it was democrat franklin delano who gott japanese-americans into the internment camps. i'm supporting donald trump. my second choice is ted cruz. i'm from the state where obama was a senator. this state is a mess. we have a hundred million dollars in pension crisis. the bills of still never been senatorma was an awful

to prop up always people it's ridiculous. you are obviously a democrat. will use unrest and press a roger: they're trying to betray nikki haley in a certain way. any pushback from conservatives.

she doesn't want to hear from us. all she was doing was shilling for jeb bush or rubio. i don't know who it is. she was attacking trump for political reasons. greta: should donald trump leave the party? roger: people like jeb bush and the wall street journal they are

in favor of illegals. the beltway establishment is out of touch with the people. we're the ones who send them to washington. they have no idea what we're thinking. like what we think and they lost is a sit down and shut up. he is representing the voices of the people. the republican party has been ignoring these people for years and years. i am retired now. i have been in the military. i may get out there and be active this time. i really feel like this country is on the brink of something

really really bad. we need a drastic change. greta: jonathan martin writes in today's new york times and not all of the establishment is trump and tedd cruz. a fundraiser took place in new orleans for ted cruz at the home of mary matalin and james carville. mary matalin was a republican strategist. she had a fundraiser at her home for ted cruz. on monday evening. and oil industry executive. went to hands to george w's presidential effort. twice a chairman for mitt romney's campaign.

>> the republican party has gone way to the left. i'm an independent myself. they want group all the immigration legal and illegal. we talk about the illegal immigration. trump or tedt cruz.

becauseelp the party the way everything is going today is all out of whack. we need somebody like donald to straightenruz everything out. cruz andike to see ted marco rubio president and vice president. you need somebody that there is vice president to run in another four years. it will take longer the natural straighten out all the things that obama messed up. wrongdoingt all the

bob: thank you for c-span. i have a clever way to solve the immigration problem. have someone from the trunk campaign listen. if business liability insurance policies and also workers consistedon insurance of exclusions that did not provide coverage for injuries to illegal or undocumented workers business in the united states would drop undocumented workers. they would be wide open for liability and lawsuits. coming from workers who get

injured on the job who have i don'ts on the job know how one brings about how congress and legislation brings to provide exclusions that would do the trick in our problems would be over. headlines.her struggling al jazeera america the news outlet is planning to close. they pumped millions of dollars into it there going to be closing on april 30. their ratings were sometimes so low that if the ratings couldn't even say how many were watching.

reporting that al jazeera america already has a , herring broadcasting. a san diego-based backer of one american news network they've hired an investment bank to establish contact with al jazeera america executives. about a quarter of that that would be of great value to us. many of the newspapers having information about the republicans are on the retreat also the gathering

story in the paper this morning. speak awry had is tired of holding open the votes. as part of this nuclear deal. they agree to redo it the week of january 25.

rolf: this is been created by a long history of very bad lawbreaking and allowing them to do whatever they want. they haven't protected citizens that is the problem. the government has failed to protect the citizens. we're very tired of that now. that is what is supporting donald trump. protect us from lawbreakers. the illegal aliens are here breaking the law. there's nothing wrong with the immigration system. we just don't enforce the law. if you enforce the law it will be broken. will probably vote for ted

cruz. but iis very entertaining don't taken that seriously. i would have to vote for trump against hillary clinton. we must control our borders. i can say you silly stories of theirns, people in construction industry their jobs have been taken by illegal aliens. it is a lie to say that they will only do jobs that americans won't do. i personally know construction workers that are out of work because of this. , do you liberal friends lock your front door? if they say yes then they are hypocrites. the is they won't let us lock

the door to the country. if they say no they are liars. we can lock the door to our homeland. it is the same thing. lewis: i agree with the gentleman that was just on. you have protecting americans from the illegals. my daughter betsy moaned in the side by illegal alien. iturned her life upside down. the car has never been the same. he was driving again with a .onth

i have several friends were spanish and mexican. theseon't like that people are coming here illegally. on ted cruz, i am all in on him. i think they will indict her next month. more you should read the book about benghazi. on the public corruption myself.

the wall street journal is asking whether hillary's ethics are behind the surge for bernie sanders. the fbi is looking at the intersection between clinton and the e-mails and the clinton foundation. the message that many rank-and-file democrats are having second thoughts. we will think short break and when we come back we will talk to the associated press diplomatic reporter matthew lee about what happened in iran when

those sailors were captured in iranian waters. they were released yesterday as you know. we will talk with two top economists and they can debate obama's economic record so far. we will continue after this short break. [music plays]

martin luther king: why first study the mahatma gandhi philosophy i decided it was the most potent weapon available to us in our struggle for freedom and human dignity. i would say that this overall sitins and massns marches and pilgrimages have been having a great deal after gandhi.

greta: matthew lee from the associated press, diplomatic writer is back at our table. let's begin with the sailors that were captured. this video that has come out showing the sailors on their knees with their hands behind the heads. themsaying it shows apologizing for drifting into iranian waters. what do we know and why does this matter? matthew: if they were mistreated then it is incumbent on the united states to make some cap complaint to the radiance or take it to an appropriate authority.

this is being hailed by the is a benefit from the negotiations that led to the iran deal. arguable thatt the secretary state for pickup the phone and call the ring and foreign minister now that it probably wasn't the case if you use ago. they're still very troubling issues about iran's behavior. include the treatment of the sailors. greta: would not be normal procedure for the iranian military to approach them?

issue ofit is more the the taking of the video and the broadcasting of it. the broadcasting of the photographs. apologizes.or whether that was under duress or not we don't know. the geneva convention says you can't use this for propaganda or for insults. matthew: to publicize this violates the conventions. is this intended behavior that you expect from a country that allegedly wants to rejoin the group of nations?

greta: john kerry thanked the theance for releasing sailors. , did johnpeculating kerry apologize to the iranians. matthew: we have to take them at their word that they did not apologize for it. it is a slippery slope. whether that sailor was speaking

under duress or was forced into saying it we'll know. at this point i don't have any .eason greta: the video is on reuters for those who want to go and watch it and listen to it for themselves. what does this mean for the nuclear deal? matthew: the relatively speedy resolution of this helps the deal. if the sailors were still in

captivity, and it had been resolved that i think there would be real issues for the on thatut signing off kind of a deal with iran. there is some indirect relationship. the sanctions for the billions of dollars that were supposed to happen. if the situation hadn't been resolved quickly would've been very problematic.

there is still american civilians who are languishing in iran's jails. the communication between kerry and the radiant foreign minister is great and you shouldn't undersell this as a side benefit of the deal. there are a lot of troubling things better any behavior. there is a missing american that the u.s. believes the iranians know something about. were veryes troubling.

we asked of the state department yesterday. when state department spokesman gets up and says you can't undersell this that this was a direct result of the around deal then you can't oversell either. it is certainly not the panacea that they are depicting a spirit james: you hit it the head when if they would just tell them andnot release

on at what went guantánamo bay when they had those pictures of those sailors being mistreated. they had dogs attacking them. they could've used that in incident to do the same thing. with thema problem doing what they did they did put their hands behind their heads that is the smartest thing to me they should not be feeling bad. if you look at the way people were held at guantánamo bay

compared to that that is a blessing. matthew: i think he's referring to abu ghraib and not what talk about. the prisoners at abu ghraib were mistreated. it was punished. the behavior of those soldiers. i don't think anyone's trying to excuse the mistreatment of prisoners at abu ghraib or anywhere else. from theeparate incident that we are discussing. two wrongs don't make a right. it should be problematic for the radiance.

it is problematic for the bush administration when the other grave abuse came to light area it is a different situation. what was the difference train upgrade and this incident? matthew: they are completely different. this was recent situation is one in which american sailors were taken and the circumstances of which are still unclear. not arrested and

put in jail. haveadiance appeared to with the exception of taking the photographs and releasing them treated them not badly. situation was not comparable. anyone involved in releasing these photographs and videos must be held accountable. greta: he says there was zero wrong with the way the radiance handled captives. the video was taken to prove how they handled. if the iranians had already

gotten their billions of dollars on not so sure we would have our 10 navy and marine corps people back. i think they would still be in captivity. matthew: that may very well be true but there is no way to know about that. taking of theual video that is the problem is the mass release publicity of it. the female sailor was forced to wear a hitjab.

despite this open line of communication they are not friends. forcese two armed confronting each other. essentially hostile still despite the nuclear deal. you have already guys on both sides. the procedure that they went through to make them get on their knees could very well be standard operating procedure. if it was got other way around. issue of the violation than mistreatment is the releasing of the video. greta: do they get this money that has been frozen all the ones?

the implementation day is coming up. the sanctions will be determined. the radiance in terms of the frozen assets. request thisnt money from the banks and financial institutions in hell get money other going to $100 million 10 minutes after the implementation is acquired. no. there will be a process.

comments.ve a the nuclear deal was supposed to keep any country away from reaching a threat around the world. this deal is something obama has been successfully doing for the past two years. andpreciate mr. obama senator kerry for their efforts. what just happened there is no now havet the radiance a countryuperpower that has never changed from 1979. they have the power. he was right to negotiate.

united states has been holding these weapons of mass destruction for years without proving it. who gives them this credibility? countries which is some completely anti-human. the tensions between iran and saudi arabia. isple must realize that iran not the threat. the saudi's are the real threat. . no one forgets the terrorists of 9/11. they were from saudi arabia.

greta: a lot is happening in the middle east. matthew: there are real concerns that the tension between iran and saudi arabia could you rail of the things. the 9/11 hijackers were predominantly saudi. the saudi's have been supporting fundamentalist islam. that is true. it is also true that the iranians are not entirely blameless in this. would not even use a qualifier entirely. they support radical jihad

groups. the right now causing major chaos in syria. just as societies. the blameless everybody. john: how many countries were of thed with the signing iran deal. so people know it's not just our country that agreed on this deal matthew: the country's and withd off on the iran deal the permanent members of the security council. great britain, france, the united states russia, china.

along with germany and the european union. endorsed by then the security council. great unease in the sunni arab states like saudi arabia. it has been endorsed by the united nations. the actual signers were just the six. president did not

mention what happened with our sailors in his state of union address. those disappointing. the vice president was on television the next morning. he said there had been no apology. heard the avenues we audio of someone giving apology. it will potentially hurt us.

matthew: there are democrats who supported the iran deal who are very concerned about iran's other activities. support for hezbollah in lebanon. assad in syria. the ballistic missile test. this most recent incident with the sailors. where iran's areas behavior is troubling. their human rights record. this deal addresses none of that. why trust iran administration's

response has was we don't trust him. that's why the rural these verifications put into the deal. history of not telling the truth about what it is doing. i think they have legitimate questions. at that verification of the regime that has been set up. being tough and strong and efficient. for the deal to work. greta: iran's military chief said this should be a lesson to troublemakers. matthew: i think he's talking about people in congress who are

vocally opposed to the deal. they have probably taken on the mantle of being troublemakers on this issue. iranians with the taking of the sailors in the firing of rockets near the street of they seem to be testing the new relationship. not all of them are happy about this anyway. different different strands of

the supreme leader and the hardline and the people described as relative moderates like president rouhani. it is difficult to tell when the military iran is doing something, if they're doing it freelancing. deal that blow up a they don't particularly like. richard: thank you very much. i think we've been transported in china in 1938 when neville chamberlain tried to make a deal. think that those dollars will not be used to they cana warhead so

say they didn't violate treaty. as a former marine aviator, i wonder what the rules of engagement are. for small craft these guys didn't drift 50 miles into the territorial waters of iran. i wanted to live. you may not understand it. they could've destroyed any iranian craft. i believe they were told to stand down. what if they asked for air support. two f-18s could've made that island of reese.

i am furious about this. your guest is speaking about this like this is a great thing with iran. before war over this back in the 18th century. it is time to quit talking and acting like neville chamberlain. to know if it'll take thousands of deaths for america wake up. matthew: i'm not saying it's a great thing. that's what administration has said. they said it is a benefit of the nuclear deal. the administration will argue that iran by agreeing to this not tos also agreed

assemble a nuclear weapon. you can agree to believe them or not. if they want to continue to reap the benefits of the deal they had better stick by what they pledge. there's no guarantee that the iranians are going to use this money to do whatever. administration argues that the economy is in such bad shape that they will put this money to use to improve their economy. the pointsnd point,

that the caller raises are valid. this is still being looked at. questions like that are valid and should be answered. john: i hope you don't cut me off. i do you cut off the democrats really quick and you let the republicans spit out all kinds of nonsense. this guys nothing but a paid pundit. he gets a theory makes all these accusations and assertions is not giving the truth. i do have any particular dislike for anybody. i don't like lies.

boats that in just drift over there. the boats went back. they didn't spend all night fixing those votes. they drifted 300 miles from where they are supposed to be. that's not true either. we're not at war with iran. you're talking a geneva conventions. that is nonsense. we have to be at war for them not to take pictures and publicize. you need to be honest. matthew: i'm not a paid pundit. sometimes i wish i was. i'm not making the case one way or the other.

we have waited for the investigation find out what exactly happened with the .ailors there are a lot of unanswered questions. whether the geneva convention sure but it isot certainly relevant as it relates to international law. these are rules that are expected to be applied in cases like this. you are not supposed to release video photographs that are humiliating or insulting.

you can take the video to try to prove that they were mistreated as one caller pointed out. desmond: i want to give c-span all the praise. trueast bastion of unbiased news. i gave you the benefit of the doubt. clear i knowvery

you say you are not a pundit but you're definitely editorializing and my biggest point is this. would you agree that we have the most technologically advanced mightiest military of the plan? matthew: yes. desmond: do you think for a moment that those vessels that obviously violated iranian and national waters that they didn't know where they were? it is so obvious. the proof of the pudding is in the eating. matthew: maybe your definition of editorializing is different from mine. i'm saying that the questions need to be answered.

i don't know what happened and neither do you frankly. if you are not going to wait to make up your mind that maybe you are editorializing. greta: when will this investigation conclude? there's a lot of skepticism out there. matthew: they are points that need to be addressed. the same as the issues that were raised by previous callers. all those things. they must be addressed. i'm not taking a position where the other. on what exactly happened he finally i don't know. and neither today. greta: a few more headlines dealing with the state department and secretary of state john kerry.

the screening of central american immigrants trying to come to the united states claim refugee status will be happening by the u.n. journal, why we are suing obama over keystone. the company is bringing a lawsuit. the understanding of the international community contrary to administration's own findings was that the pipeline would increase greenhouse gases.

if you want to read more on that, that is in the wall street journal. after the nuclear accord iran has dismantled their centrifuges. on ouruld they trust us side? a new round of sanctions. ago after some terrorist attack in chicago which had no relationship to limitations on iran. the revealsay congress trying to stiffen sanctions against them.

we keep telling everyone how evil they are. our moderate allies like saudi arabia guest: there is no doubt that there is great mistrust in iran and the united states. atuess if you are looking from the iranian perspective, have a long history of complaints dating back to 1953 against the u.s. and what they claim as u.s. meddling in their internal affairs. is, it as that mistrust is just as deep is not deeper over here in the united states. you have a situation where both countries are deeply distrustful of the other. host: one last call.

a democrat from arizona. i believe this is a psychological operation. the target is asked. i want to add to the skepticism. we are to believe that soldiers captured have somehow sold themselves out and get photographed -. they were ordered to do this. don't believe this for a minute. what do you say? guest: i don't know if it is cabal and jackal. those are questions that have to be answered. what exactly were the circumstances that led to him to make the comments that he did. as earlier callers have noted, the exact circumstances of how these two ships and to come into iranian custody. host: summon a question.

when will we know when this investigation concludes? believe so.'t this is something the department of defense and the navy will be looking at. i don't know when that will be -- will happen. it is something that people want answers to and what answers quickly. it should be done soon. host: thank you for talking about the this one. we are going to take a short break and then are two -- and then to top comments are going to talk about the economy. saiyid will be here to talk about the flint ridge, michigan water crisis. all of this when we come back.

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hartford as a place to settle with his young wife and family. he fell in love with the city and was tickled to death. beautiful. place was the family would come into the library here after dinner. the paintings across the top and on the walls here and knickknacks on the mental, they would ask for a story. he began with the cat and the bluff painting on the end. from there, he had to continue across the mental and appropriate every each and every minute back -- back. -- knickknack. he would end up with a painting of metal on. -- madeline. the c-span city tour.

visiting cities across the country. the washington journal continues. host: joining us now for a roundtable discussion about president obama's economic record, we have lawrence mishel and we are joined by veronique de rugy. she is a senior research fellow at george washington university. welcome to both of you. let's pick up our discussion about the president's economic policy and what he said during the state of the union address. [video clip] >> united states of america right now has the most strongest and durable economy in the world. we are in the middle of the longest streak of private-sector job creation in history.

[applause] more than 14 million new jobs. the strongest two years of job growth since the 1990's. an unemployment rate cut in half. our auto industry just had its best year ever. [applause] >> thais part of a manufacturing search that created nearly 900,000 new jobs in the past several years. we did all this by cutting art -- wow -- cutting while cutting -- while cutting our deficit by three quarters. anyone claiming that america's economy is in decline is

peddling fiction. host: the president offers a pretty rosy picture of the economic situation. do you agree with his assessment? guest: everything the president said is true. that is the reality of america. that has a lot to do with what and he -- when he inherited. -- what he inherited. it is true that the united states is doing better than all the other advanced nations. you might say that is a very low bar because european policy has been very bad. it has had two recessions in the last eight years. their unemployment rate is double what ours is. by comparison, we are doing great. by comparison to an earlier.

period we are not doing so well. if you compare incomes of a typical working family now, we are not doing so well. incomes have been falling for 15 years. that is before president obama took office. wey have not fared well -- should also be clear, one of the things he did not mention that we had a financial crisis caused by wall street on the watch of his predecessor i created a worldwide recession. standardd a very long -- hybrid -- long-standing high rate of unemployment. it has not been an easy time to get policy done. there's no cooperation between the gop and democrats of getting policy done. there are a lot of things to be done. main challenge in america is getting wages to grow for everybody. i wish the president had talk more about that. host: he said that people are

not feeling so good about the economy. said that 48%poll of americans think that the economy is only fair and 28% think it is poor. 27% view it as excellent or good. dichotomy?ns that it is true that 65% of americans think we are on the wrong track. that is a big number. it is true. this is why i was surprised to hear that the president was talking about peddling fiction. the american people are peddling fiction. it is true that the president -- under the president's watch that unemployment has gone down to 5%.

however, that number is somewhat misrepresented by the help of the labor market. reducedeen dramatically. becauseld be great people want to go to school or retire. healtht indicator of the of the labor market is the employment population ratio. the strange thing is that it has not been going up. as the employment -- unemployment rate goes down. there is any study that comes at the size of the economy and unemployment and housing prices and a fourth factor that i cannot remember that says that 93% of counties in america is still at lower levels in the recession.

the reason why the american people feel that things are not great because things just really are great. -- are not great. knowome to america and you if you're born in america than your kids will do better than you work. and the first time in a long time, the majority of people do not feel like this anymore. host: we want to get the viewers and on this conversation about president obama's economic record. we talked about some of the bright spots. one of them is the employment rate that you mentioned which is down at his lowest point in quite some time. yet at the same time, wages seem to be falling at the same time.

how do these things cancel out. how can they both be happening at the same time? guest: the unemployed and rate has gone down. the share of the workforce that has been employed has still not recovered. that just means we are not at full employment yet. i don't think anyone should say that we are. it means the federal reserve should not raise interest rates until we get full employment. we should be doing things to stimulate job growth. wages are a very long-term problem. all during the recovery under george w. bush and during this recession president obama. why that is, that is why we

have the biggest corporate profits ever. i think we have a way to setting system that is broken. it has actually been revised to help the employers instead of the employees for many decades. we have to fix that. that is why people are not feeling like they are getting ahead. the quality jobs are going down. young people are not necessarily getting the good jobs he would expect to be available to them. those are things we have to fix. the things we have to technology. .- acknowledge every person in office brags about something going on. instinctn extinct -- that a wish they would not do. i think there are people in the press office and administration just can't help himself -- themselves.

it violates how people feel about the world. they should stop. they should tell the truth all the time. including much of what is still problematic. the last thing t i will say on this is that we stl have a lot of problems to fix. president obama has not fix them. he has done a lot to get us out of the recession that we were in. let's also call attention to the silliness on the other side on how they say they are going to the thing. it's another push on more radical tax cuts. what george w bush did in 2001 and 2003, we did not have a good recovery. wages became stagnant after the tax cut. is is the tried and failed policies of the past. that is that we have before us. host: you mentioned that there

are a lot of politics and the american people are tired of it. guest: the american people do not like either party. telik republicans and 29 do not like the cut. -- democrats. it is true that republicans do not have a positive agenda. democrats have also been positing the same idea. the idea of raising the minimal wage despite the literature. the idea of forcing companies to do things. it has adverse consequences for workers and it has not worked yet. yes, republicans go back to the same ideas but i think it is worth pointing out that both parties do a letter that. 75% of people what the

minimum wage. it is deathly not true that the minimum wage is improving. the minimum wage now is 27% below what it was in 1968. and people at the bottom now are former educated than they were then. guest: a big change after looking at the literature says that if the president got his way on raising minimum wage to $10 an hour, we would lose half a million jobs. there is a recent study that just came out from m.i.t. that shows that people who heard the most -- or heard the most are hurtkilled workers -- are the most are low skilled workers.

we want to pump of those people at the bottom. hostguest: it is difficult to lt wages are 27 million workers. these workers would get a huge increase if you believe the government. i don't think this should be a goal for the rest. host: this is a great debate but i want to get viewers and on this. republican line from north carolina. what is your question? caller: thank you for c-span. i don't have a question but what i'm tired of his obama saying he has inherited in a mess -- ms. mess.ted a we had an election in 2006 and hillary clinton was on the campaign trail. she was boasting to help nancy pelosi.

she said to put us in power and we will fix this. input democrats in power 2006, two years before the great recession. either what they did was intentional or they were totally, utterly incompetent and doing anything -- in doing anything and w bush destroyed economy -. let's not forget that the man who is supposed to help us on the democratic side, arnie frank sat here on c-span one month before fannie and friends. he said hey, you have nothing to worry about. the nancy pelosi precede the gavel as the speaker of the hat -- house it was the day this country started losing jobs. you better go back and get an education and remorse in

history. host: let's give him a chance to respond. before the recession hit, we had democrats in congress and a republican in the white house. how did that affect policy? i would don't think -- make the nancy pelosi was as possible for some problems. -- responsible for some problems. when president -- before president obama -- between the time he was elected and losingated, jobs were 600,000 month. i would continue in the first three months -- that will continue in the first few months of his presidency. the economy started growing in june of 2009 because they injected a lots of money.

it was the early part of the stimulus. i do know the history. i don't see nancy pelosi pulling any economic labors -- levers that caused the financial crash. guest: i think when the president arrived in office, the country was a financial mess. whether he had a role as a congressman before is debatable. i think the american people recognize that congress is doing externally poorly. few people approve of the job done by congress. some people believe they are going the wrong way. the reality is that president obama has been in office for over seven years. americans think we are on the wrong path. that is after seven years of him being in office. i think from a free-market perspective, president bush did

a terrible job. they like to tell the job -- t out the job creation under george bush. they were not a majority in the private sector. i think there is enough blame to go around. we could have a debate about the impact of the stimulus or the money given to the state and how it may not have been admitted in the way it was supposed to. they used it to build their budget gaps. the presidente is has been in power for seven years. with we are talking veronique de rugy from george from and lawrence mishel

the economic policy institute. let's go back to our phones. on the independent line, we have darren from washington dc. caller: how are you doing? i love c-span. i'm just an average working american. -- gosh.ts are with the economic situation that we are in, you know, people don't realize the economy is totally different than it was 20 years ago. service labor a force now. people keep saying the jobs back. back't want those jobs here anymore.

mills or that manufacturing stuff that people used to do. it is low skilled and does not pay as well. advances in technology have made it a lot easier and faster to do s.ese job people just have to go and get trained. the other thing i want to say that the biggest problem with congress is the money. obama touched on that with his state of the union. some of the republicans dust on it too. the -- touched on it too. out here in the workplace, when we have problems we have to fix it. host: let's give our guests a chance to unpack oath of those. -- both of those.

talk about a change in the industry. guest: there is a demand for high skilled workers. there is still a demand for low skilled workers. a lot of companies are bringing jobs back. there is a renaissance of manufacturing mostly because of a trillion dollars of money coming in. things are not as grim on the manufacturing side as people think. it is true that there are real challenges that we are facing. the old policies would hurt people at the bottom. it is not the way to go. i think darren make some good points. favorablele bit more towards trying to rebuild manufacturing. it is not going to solve a lot of problem. a lot of the jobs we could have our well-paying jobs.

i think we need to do the policies to help bring them back. i think something is even more of the mental. -- fundamental. orneryeople are feeling america because their incomes have been submerged because of the deepest recession we have had since 1930. wages have not grown. they also feel that government is an accessible to them. they view the republican primary in the lineup of how many leaners -- billionaires can back my candidacy and billionaires on the other side. have ourhink we should voting by of dollars, it should be voted by people. president obama, one of his four points was to address that.

i think it is important. guest: i agree that money in politics is very problematic. i have to say that this part of the president speech took me back. for the first time in many is a, the charter -- program that caps off the roless of most successful of companies in america. it has expired. the president who used to be against it has become a fervent cheerleader for it. congress and all the democrats who used to be against it in their publicans are no better with a small exception, but the become inhave only favor of a corporate program.

lobbying forllions this. this happened over and over again. you have unseen victims, you have workers and companies who are competing without subsidies. i agree. bys is driven by lobbying big first. i understand the american people feel this way. guest: shareholders don't even know how much money the companies that they own and what actually give? there was a regulation that the fcc was issuing that would enforce company to reveal their campaign donations. you know what happened? the publicans in the omnibus the

budget deal -- budget deal prevented this regulation. their shareholders don't know. that is ridiculous. tost: the best solution is prevent the government from propping up companies. you forbid corporate welfare. the government is not going to be giving subsidies to private companies. host: we are talking about economic policy with larry michele and veronique de rugy masoneorge university. our next caller is david from new jersey. caller: thank you for taking my call. one thing i hear repeatedly come up in discussions of this type is the dismantling of glass-steagall as the single bays biggest factor.

what i would like to ask, is this true? how did it happen? what is to keep protections from collapsing again and leading to another 2008 collapse? can you briefly explain what glass-steagall is? guest: something that prevented companies that were investment banks also doing other kinds of banking kept separate, different wall of banks build a between them. it came down in the late 1990's driven by bipartisan effort. was driven by senator graham in texas. it allowed banks to get bigger and to be insurance companies as well as banks. glass-steagall was -- it does

not mean we should have some new type of glass-steagall that prevents banks from being so big and from being as diversified as they are. i think there is legitimate debate about what we should have moving forward. i'm not sure glass-steagall, i'm pretty sure glass-steagall was not the thing that caused the financial crisis. i don't think it was a good idea getting rid of it and i think we should have a new modernized glass-steagall. guest: i think it is not clear at all that glass-steagall is the cause. that being said, one of the major problems we have had is that dodd-frank has actually made too big to sell a thing. it has reinforced this protection of companies created a wall of protections that actually protects them from ever failing.

without the accountability of knowing that you could fail. how is this going to work? on the one hand, we say we are going to prevent them from being too big but then we have all these policies that basically guarantee and give out incentives because they know the government will pick them up. host: these policies were put into place after the financial crisis. how do you prevent crises like we saw in 2007? guest: i think the too big to fail becoming such an institution now is going to lead to more financial crisis. -- they are not holding these companies more accountable and making -- bring them up artificially is not going to do it. to maket is important when how we resolve crises

there is a bank in bankruptcy. it is also working. we saw metlife insurance last week announced it was going to purposely shrink to try to avoid some of dodd-frank regulations on capital requirements. we saw ge did the same thing last year. we actually do see it working to shrink and make some of these companies simpler. host: our next caller on our republican line is joe from ohio. caller: thank you. an octogenarian but i would like to take a different perspective and raise the curtain of politics and economics. there has been a target in this country and it has been the white male, christian part of our country. you cannot ignore that in the politics of things no matter what one may see.

that is why people are moving toward trump and ted cruz and a few others in the republican party. socialism has attacked the morality of this country and you can set aside all the political and economic aspects. this rising swell in america has accused a certain group of people of being against blacks, of being against immigration, being against women's right to kill their babies, all of these different issues are far more important than the indignation that is taken place in the immorality what about by the socialist party and those people involved in that party, whether they be white gentiles or jews or whatever they want to call themselves. the attack on american christianity is in evidence and it better be addressed because it is going to explode and spill over. thank you for your time. host: do you have a response to that? guest: i don't see the world as you do and i don't know what

socialist party you are referring to. there is not a socialist party in the united states. peoplestand there are that talk about whites and males .s having particular privilege it is hard to ignore the fact that men do more than women, sometimes when working a similar job. that blacks and other people of color do unless frequently -- earnss frequently -- bur last, have far less income and alth.ess wel i do not see white christian males being shot down in the street by police. i'm for a movement which i think has to be of workers in the middle class to retake power

away from employers and the billionaires and rich people. wayuld cut it that rather than white male in christian. guest: i cannot really comment to this except to say i think all of these feelings, and expression of how comfortable people feel about the future. their economic situation. it is true there are people in this country who are doing worse off than others but i would -- ist, in particular would suggest there are things i wish the president had done like choicein favor, school which would allow people to instead of being stuck in the bad schools they are to actually have the choice that higher income americans have.

and also, and the war on drugs, a program that has been brutally punishing the lower income people and black americans in particular. guest: we can agree that we have to try to and mass incarcerate -- try to end mass incarcerations. thats something that is getting a lot of bipartisan attention. i think it is laughable to recommend school choice -- host: what solution do you see? guest: we need lower .nemployment get unemployment to 4% or to wages are growing faster than inflation, faster than and equal to productivity. we should raise the minimum wage substantially. it would really help the bottom 25%. we need to rebuild collective bargaining in this country both to help support middle-class wages and provide people a political voice that is needed.

.e need to restrain the top 1% when he to do that by revising rules are run executive pay. we need to shrink the financial sector and take away the fact that they are in such high wages at the expense of the rest of the economy. host: let's go to our next caller on our independent line. we have ted from jackson, tennessee. you are on. caller: i want to make a comment about the minimum wage. the minimum wage historically has not shown that we had that much job loss. republicans always want to say if you raise the minimum wage people will have to raise the price of the products. no. nets about $8 billion a year the last time i saw it or it you telling me walmart could not make 7 billion a year and give their employees arrays

instead ofraise having taxpayers fund most of them for food stamps? seeingson why you are bernie sanders, up in the polls. i watch c-span every day nearly. keeping up with the people that call in supporting sanders, he is doing pretty good and i think you will see his policies that he is promoting, that is why he is popular. thank you for taking my call. host: thanks for calling. let's talk more about the middle minimum wage. guest: it can be done. it would benefit some people, there is no doubt. -- labor is like every thing else. if you raise its price you make it so that employees will demand

less of it. , it is notanother surly going to be by cutting people who are currently employed but it may be to actually stop hiring more people, registering -- reducing the number of hours. the ceo came up with studies showing that was the case. consequences and in particular there are consequences for low-income workers. there is no doubt that most policies, some people benefit. the real problem, who gets hurt in the way? guest: there are real consequences to keeping the minimum wage as low as it is. that is why people are out campaigning around, pfeiffer 15 in the union because they cannot live on it -- fight for 15 in the union because they cannot live on it. wages -- when we have wages as low as we have it helps with corporate profits. it does raise costs for various

expenditures likes food stamps, medicaid, etc.. i think we need to raise the minimum wage and do it substantially. if there is a shrinkage of hours , thatk of low-wage work is maybe fine. i think it will be distributed in such a way that i think most people will be much further ahead. almost all the low-wage workforce will have higher annual wages if we were to raise the minimum wage substantially. kind of a moral thing. it will raise prices. you are getting cheap workers because people are not able to live on those jobs -- you are getting cheap burgers because people are not able to live on those jobs. safe working conditions and a

decent wage. guest: if wages were higher everything would be better for the low income workers but the question is, how do we get there. believeit is wrong to that there will be no consequences and not real costs to forcing companies to do things they do not essentially want to do for whatever reason. we assume it is because they are greedy, evil. it could just be because they cannot. some of them could but not everyone, yes you will have these blanket policies that will affect a lot of companies, small haveesses, companies that -- companies that will take a hit. workers are likely to be the ones were punished. the best job program we have is economic growth. if there is economic growth and employees are demanding workers and there is competition for

workers, wages are going to go up. i think trying to force companies, all of them -- guest: what is your magic go for economic growth -- your magic growth? economic guest: i think we need better and smarter, more predict will regulations than the ones we have had. i am not saying the regulation at all but there has been -- when you get regulation on the books whether it works or does not work, it is there forever. whether it is punishing or not, it stays on the book forever. we need to reduce spending, military spending. why did this president -- guest: are you saying if we did those things we would have double our growth? how much affect with that beyond growth? a percentage point? guest: we also think to look at

the future. look at our debt level. gigantic. it will continue to grow and we know that we have an explosion in spending on entitlement spending. we know this is not going to be good when it hits the wall. i think this is going to create a lot of problems and i think it creates a lot of paralysis. there is no magic bullet. the idea -- guest: you cannot wave around that we should have economic growth and low-wage workers who are now struggling should wait around. guest: i'm saying we should do things differently than we have been doing them. we have tried big government policies for a long time. wouldwas the solution we not have six to 5% of americans who think we're on the wrong track. host: clearly this is an issue that can get people involved and get people riled up on both sides. let's get more calls into the

discussion. we have raymond from silver springs, maryland. caller: thank you for taking my call. i would like your guests to address how the republican congress intentionally had strategy instead of having a long-term budget, they will have a cr for 90 days or six months and that kind of creates uncertainty in the markets, in the economy. i think this was part of the strategy to prevent the president from having a stronger economy. the economy is strong compared .o other industrial countries that is one point. another point is, there is also

that 30% of republicans who believe that the president is a muslim. they will accept nothing that he does. those are the trunk people. -- the trump people. when i hear people say, trump is tapping into something, he is just tapping into that 30% of republicans which do not like the president, will exceptional compromise. -- will accept no compromise. you have that same proportion in the republican congress who want to take over the mainstream republicans and prevent them from working with the president. that is part of the problem in politics in the united states. out leadings coming these people and trying to take over the country. the direction we are going is -- theus unless somebody

democrats can rise up and make sure trump people don't succeed. i appreciate that. those are two points we want to unravel. guest: the first one i think is an interesting one. i would not blame anyone for thinking things have gotten worse and is impossible to get a budget. it is worth saying there is enough blame to go around. the democrats did not actually put out a budget for several years in a row. i read in congressional quarterly in the last 50 years only five times has congress produced a budget with each bill on time. not these times has been the last 20 years. we think things are worse on the are.t tied now than they

it has not worked smoothly even in the past. guest: i think raymond is onto something that there is a sizable minority of america, amply represented in congress both in the house of representatives and in the senate, that will vote no against anything the president says he wants, just because he says he wants it. it led to basically an almost ungovernable republican caucus in the house. almost so in the senate as well. it prevents the orderly process of doing budgets. it does have an adverse economic , especially when they have shut down the government or had crisis about raising the debt limit, things like that. i think some of it is fueled by racism and it is really

unfortunate and kind of scary. one of the things that makes me mad is that this is -- we are in a pressure cooker because of the financial crisis in my view caused by wall street, that has really damaged a lot of families, made things really tough it it makes people ornery. we are not seeing the best of america and i think america is far better than this. i wish we would get back to a policy and shared prosperity that would make us more open to each other, excepting of diversity and everyone moving ahead. guest: we are in a pressure cooker. i think it is not going to get better because when you look at budget projections it is not going to get better. more spending, not enough revenue to not only pay for the spending on the books but also the unfunded liability. another trend that has been interesting that also explains

this constant fight, when you look at the evolution of the budget as it was, the discretionary part, the part , -- ahey fight about --t majority of the budget going on autopilot have a thing. ethnic we're going to see more and more of these -- i think we will see more and more of these as we go forward. host: we are talking about the economy and the obama administration. let's talk about some external factors like the fact that oil prices have dropped very low. what impact does that have on the economy? like ait is a bit short-term stimulus. people are spending less at the gas pumps and for their heating and air-conditioning in the

summer and all of that. that has helped us a bit. i think long-term we actually need energy prices to be higher shift tos reinforce a renewable energy which we need to address climate change. a shorthand good at it could be a long-term bad. guest: i think a lot of people are benefiting from the price of oil being so low. it is creating some tension and it is worth noting that the foundation of counties the counties that are fared well is the beginning of the recession are the ones that have experienced this energy renaissance, mostly because of gas and fracking. how do we -- how is it going to be going forward, i'm not sure.

host: on our republican line we have george from north carolina. caller: thank you very much. i think i heard mr. michel say he knows his history very well. i would posit this question. was fdr responsible for world plantedr were the seeds after world war i? if george w. bush was responsible for the financial collapse in 2008, shouldn't we be going back to the mid-1970's to the community reinvestment act that was expended under clinton to force banks to make low-interest loans that could not be repaid, causing the derivatives?the everywhere he felt as though they had free reign because jamie gorelick and janet reno

were forcing banks to make risky loans. george bush attempted, eight times, to reign in fannie and freddie. from 2001 to 2008. to blame george bush for the 2008 economic collapse would be like blaming fdr for world war ii. , when iinimum wage side was a kid i started at $2.35 an hour, still in high school. i worked my way up. not every kid went to school, went to college. kids went to vocational schools, kids became plumbers and tradesmen in new have built things in new how to build this country. to say that the minimum wage is a problem for economic growth is ridiculous. host: what do you say? guest: i'm going to visit you on

a few things. i do not think fdr was responsible for war were to and i'm not saying george bush was responsible for the financial crisis either. i'm saying that was not something you can blame president obama for. i think this line of argument that somehow with fannie and freddie that created this financial crisis was disproven over and over again. it was wall street funding the subprime mortgages and fueled that. it was not fannie and freddie. i'm not saying everything about fannie and freddie was done well but they are not the reason. i think it was a bipartisan deregulation of wall street. i'm willing to shoot at both parties here. that is what makes me nonpartisan. i think it was a mistake. i think it had to do with the power of wall street money. also the ideology of economics which i think was also wrong in giving too free reign to the

banks. implicit in what you're saying is somehow the minimum wage is a bad thing. when i said if we raise the minimum wage even to $12 in 2020 which would only put it slightly above where it was in 1968 in -- weion-adjusted terms, are talking -- 85% of the people that would benefit are working adults, primarily adult working women. it is really not about teens. host: i want to get a couple more calls. one on the independent line. george from conroe, texas. caller: good morning and thank you for the chance to talk on c-span. are achel, you clearly

socialist. you have basically outlined policies that are right out of the handbook. you say you do not know that there is no socialist party in the united states. look at the democratic party and who has filled its ranks. bernie sanders is borderline communist. for you to say there is no socialist party in the united states is laughable. host: can you explain for some of our viewers what is the difference between your views and what is deemed as socialism? guest: first of all, communism and socialism are very different things. there was a communist movement that broke away from the socialist movement in roughly 1920. after the soviet union became communist. they believed in marxist leninism. eventually believed in central

planning where there was markets that were not used to decide the allocation of what goods were going to be produced. a one-party state, central planning. socialism is another movement. it has adherents in most countries of the world. many of the european parties anti-communist are the socialist parties of france, germany, italy, the labor party of britain. they brought us the social insurance, meaning health care for all. strong universal pensions equivalent to but better than our social security. strong protections for people to be able to collectively bargain. i believe in those things. the democrats are not a

socialist party. bernie sanders calls himself it democrat socialist. he means he is identifying with the policies of some of those socialist parties in western europe that are democracies. even believe in civil liberties a lot more than what some of our parties here believe in. host: our next caller, jack from arkansas. you are on. hello you guys. you are putting a lot of smoke up in the air. a lot of those things are true. at the bottom where all of us are that are spending the money to keep the small businesses going and keep walmart charging forward, one of the facets that happened was the price of gasoline jumped up. we started back 69 with a gas shortage. i worked in the oil field.

we took advantage of the entire world. that is what is going on now. it is a result from that when the price of gas went up people do not have enough money. and to use the same amount of gas to get from point a to point small: and on the businesses, not all, but a tremendous amount that wiped out. wage do raise the minimum in the $15 an hour, it'll take some time. it'll go through an election process. it'll take time for us to recover. host: i hate to cut you off. i want to give the guest to respond. experti am not an energy , so i cannot comment on energy prices articulately. i thought the caller was getting to where it's -- it is

true that if we raise wages for people at the bottom, that will fuel thell -- help demand for goods and services. that we needilarly to increase the demand for goods and services. stronger on the middle and the bottom that will be good for our growth. if the government forces , therees to raise wages is always the assumption they will cost nothing. we know that is not the case. thank you both for a great discussion. coming up next, we have bloomberg bna amena saiyid, discussing the flint, michigan

and ifg water crisis that can happen in towns across the country. ♪ >> booker t says you know, we have delegate covered in alabama, but it is really the kids in the elementary schools that are suffering. it is separate, but not equal. filmmaker talks about her latest film about julius rosenwald and the african-american communities in the south to build schools and bring elementary education to children in role america. why don't we just use the kit

houses? the best thing booker t. washington ever said was "no." i want the communities to build it. six goals were built. that was amazing. morphed into 5000 schools. all over the south, including merrill lynch. >> sunday night at 80 stern on c-span's q&a. this week and american history tv on c-span3, saturday night at 8:00 eastern, arizona state university .rofessor brooks simpson it is the president's job to educate. and a you don't understand this.

there is no reason you should understood this. it's was in a place far, far away with people who speak a different language. i am going to explain to you what american interests are in the congress respond to that. i will let opinion makers respond to that and members of my administration. i will educate you and you can help make a decision. to explain to you why this is a course of action to pursue. 10:00, theorning at 1996 campaign of former republican tennessee governor lamar alexander and his walk across new hampshire degree to voters. p.m., in 1963 interview with reverend martin luther king jr. on his nonviolent approach to civil rights, his comments on president kennedy and how gandhi influenced his work. >> some years ago when i first

studied the method of nonviolent resistance, i came to the conclusion that it was the most potent weapon available to oppress people in their struggle freedom andmy -- human dignity. innsthe sit and come await , mass marches and pilgrimages it had a elements, great deal after gandhi. >> for the complete we can schedule, go to www.c-span.org. washington journal continues. saiyid,in us is amena she is the water pollution .eporter for bloomberg bna we will be discussing the issue

in flint, michigan. thank you so much for joining us. guest: thank you for having me. host: remind viewers what the michigan is in flint, with the water and how began. guest: what happened was flint decided to switch his water from detroit to getting the drinking water from flint river. they switched, they said the water was discolored. around september, a study came out that showed elevated lead levels in the blood of children that triggered this alarm. where is this led coming from? it turned out that the switch in the water supply to place

without making sure that there not enough measures in place to prevent the corrosion and from lead getting into the tap water. that is on breaking to the was --ion that the lead came from the water. the letter was bleached into the cap -- the lead was leached into the tap water. for: who is responsible implementing such measures? state government? epa? state's government responsibility getting the water from the supplier making sure the water is treated properly, and that corrosion measures are

in place to prevent leaching. -- thete new when it's state new when it switched over, the supply did not have those measures in place. not in place. what happened the switch to levels weree lead discovered. state pretty much the and making sure controls were in place. we are going to do this geographically. if you are calling in from eastern or central united states,

202-748-8000. from the mountain region, call 202-748-8001. aroundyou are in or flint, michigan, call 202-748-8002. the state and local menace fatalities were in charge of regulating it? what role does the epa play? guest: the municipality has to ensure it monitors and meeting the federal level for lead. the state has to ensure that the water, utility is in compliance, in this case, was the municipality. ensure that the states are meeting the responsibility that they have laid out.

epa is the overall, sort of, overseer. call it, it's fast with the state. host: ok, ok. let's bring our calls in. , sorry about that. we will set with bob from michigan. you are on with amena saiyid. you are calling from michigan. are you or someone you know affected by this water crisis? caller: not yet. i live in a role area, but, the state of michigan took over the running of the flint city government in that area. so, much of this -- this is not the only city that is going to experience things like this. it is -- is just the first one. it's all about the money.

the cities are shrinking in size and much of the concern has been toward detroit. has been a second-class citizen in terms of concern to the state. size, cities reduce in they just don't have the resources and the state is more interested in balancing the books now. this is what happened. they decided not to take water anymore from the detroit water supply and go back to save money. in no kind ofsly condition to be used at that time. it seems like, we will deal with that later. is the tip of the iceberg.

most of these are old cities with a lot of lead pipes. be anjust happens to unfortunate victim of cost-cutting measures. and putting a balanced budget ahead of the health of the people. host: thank you for that, bob. talkna more about the switch water source? trying -- theye were getting in some cost-cutting measures and save several million dollars. -- theyided its was decided it was costing us too much. apparently, that did not work. the caller is right.

this may happen in other places, but the real question over here depends on if you have the measures in place to prevent the lead in the pipes from leaching out. that is what the epa federal rule requires you to do. you must have those measures in place. if you have a population of more than 50,000 people and flint has a population of more than 104,000. they work required to make sure that wherever they got the water from, they had corrosion control measures in place to prevent lead from leaching out into the tap water. the state was under the ,mpression, epa asked the state they have these measures in

place? is the tap water safe? that is what the federal rule requires. that you have those measures in place. the state has a program in place, but actually, the program was not being implemented, and that is why the lead leached out into the tap water. host: we have another caller from michigan. david calling in from clinton township, michigan. david, you are on with amena saiyid. caller: thank you. subject.rested in this detroit andween flint, i watched our governor rick snyder put financial managers in both cities. manager thatncial may the choice not teased detroit city water for economic reasons. and was cheaper -- it was cheaper. if was more corrosive.

and causee corrosive the lead to lead into the water. there was a doctor in the area. is aetected -- he pediatric doctor and detected high lead levels in children and the flint area. she contacted lansing, michigan to tell them about this. lansing, michigan, which is our state capital, told her that she did not know what she was talking about. this was a year ago. doctor, not only did she not do what you was talking about, they try to discredit this doctor. she said there was a high level of lead in the water. they dragged their feet and new what was happening. they did nothing about it until , all of a sudden, there are people calling for our governor

to be impeached. all of a sudden after a year. now we have the national guard handing out water. why wasn't that water handed out when they first detected the problem? that is going to cause our governor -- not be has to rely on lawyers to keep him from being impeached, or going to prison. a new. the city didn't know. there is no way the governor could sit there and not know what was happening there. host: david, thank you. let's talk about that timeline and when it was discovered there was a problem. you cited in your report that timeline. can you walk us through that? guest: in 2014, they switched. between the time they switched in september the study came out and found elevated lead levels in blood samples of children. during that time, the residents were complaining, there is something wrong with this water,

it's is not tasting right. the switch is not working out. the switch to the friendship water. soon after that, after that study came out in september, they declared a state of emergency and the governor stepped in and said, ok, we need to organize a panel and do more testing and provide tests to the residence. in october, they switched back to detroit water. there was a huge outcry about. a turned out, a less than month after the elevated lead levels were discovered, emails were released under the stream of information act, turns out knew that the--

corrosion controls, the measures you are required to make sure the lead does not leached out and the pipes are not corroded, or not in place, but had a program to do it. epa and the state had gone back and forth. epa was misunderstood what the state was saying. that controls were in place. there was a mixup, lack of communication, however you want to characterize it. when this came out, epa said, ok, we will order your program to see what happened and what went wrong, etc., etc.. residents of the town sued and said you knew that the measures were not in place, and

you still allowed us to receive tapwater from the flint river. now, until yesterday, the national guard was called out to distribute bottled water to the residents. department has gotten involved in doing an inquiry as to why you took so missteps,hat were the or the steps taken or not taken to prevent this from happening. host: we have a caller from flint, michigan. john from flint, you are on with amena saiyid. has this affected you or your household? lived in thei have city of flint since 2002. when i moved to the city, i moved to a house that was built in 1925. in the service entry on the

house is made out of lead and comes from a cast iron water main. and that distance between the water main and the house, the lead can leach into the water. what i did from that time when i moved in is i flushed my water for about a minute before i used did. -- before i used it. any drinking water i used for cooking water, i would buy at the grocery store. i bring out a bottled water. host: when did you first start to notice a problem with your water? caller: i have never noticed a problem with my water per se. i do know the people have had debris in-- rust and their water from the cast-iron beams. is that when they went to flint river water, it

was 20 times more corrosive. ding in theout the co lead pipes. -- itowed the lead allowed the lead to leach into the water. we just flushed the water before we use it. if is -- it is ubiquitous. they are an older construction and probably throughout the country. people do with pd every day, but they are not exposed to the high level of accident that was in the flint river that was getting the coa and getting the wrongting lead. about whether you are satisfied or dissatisfied with the response of state and local officials in michigan to this problem. caller: well, the response as i

ctt, they are either going to replace the lead pipes, or supply water. --not just blend, it will be it is not just select, it is the whole country. they could have added a chemical that would have neutralized acid in the flint river, they did not do it. they were probably testing the water at the water plant in self, and not at the cap. -- at the tap. they did not know if was happening until the coatings were allowed to disintegrate. i don't know what the answer is. i know property values in the city of flint are very, very low already. we are a poor town. anywhereng to happen when they don't have the proper chemical to the water to keep the lead from leaching. host: is this a problem we can see in other cities and towns

across the country? guest: does he have lead pipes? host: are your pipes leading your home? caller: yes they are. service entrance is made out of lead. i do drink bottled water. since 2002. its i knew about the -- i knew about it then. guest: ok, so can you repeat your question. othercan this happen in cities and towns where there are houses with lead pipes? guest: the linux from the water -- the line home, from your water main to your home. there are a lot of places across the country that has led service aligned still.

they stopped doing that. if could happen. led-copper rule came out in 1992 to prevent lead from getting into water. there were three major incidents well-publicized including one in wheregton dc back in 2004 they change the chemicals they were using to treat the water. it caused leadas levels to go up, and so, they had to -- a triggered the requirement to place the line. the question of the lead service line is, do they need to replace them? certainly, they need to be replaced, but there is a high cost along with that. utilitiesost is the

-- they can get loans from federal programs to replace them. it becomes the homeowners responsibility to replace the lead pipes from their property -- to theirr cap tap. that is a huge cause. host: is there an incentive to financial help to homeowners? guest: i have not heard anything. recently, they recommended there should be some sort of incentive so they can do this. not everybody can afford it. you must remember, these lines were installed at the beginning of the 20th century.

the are aging. -- they are aging. they goes to the issue of aging infrastructure. host: from cedars think, michigan, we have janet. jenna, you are on with amena saiyid. caller: good morning. i mainly wanted to point out with a description of your evidence. there was an emergency manager appointed by the governor and answers only to the governor that made this decision to change to the flint river water. realize ithat -- i was a cost cutting measure. city isth of an entire not a good place to do that. that iteep pointing out was the municipalities that did this. the only thing they agreed to do was to change from the detroit system to their own system.

but the water source would have been lake huron, not the flint river. in what the emergency manager who made the choice to go to the flint river instead of the lake, which has been proven to be fairly safe. the lake was fine. it was hischoice -- choice, not the city official. es or to no one but the governor. recently, i has believe, through an executive order, make himself exempt from the free him information act, so it nearly impossible to gain access to his communication. yesterday, he said he only knew about it in october. those of us who have been following this story for months august, met secretly with some churches to

give out filters. kind of seems like he knew back then there was a problem. host: thank you so much. there arew if measures in place to remedy this problem in flint? what measures are in place to address the problem, and anything to address the leadership that led to this problem? guest: from what i understand, the head of the department of environmental equality has resigned. as i said, the state is being sued. is thert-term measure switch back to detroit water. they are giving out bottled water right now. the larger issue, and the governor brought this up too, there is infrastructure that needs to be changed and lack of funds. they need to -- they need the

funds to do it. let me get back to one of the points the caller made, which is, the town officials -- this official was taken by emergency management. the municipality is in charge of testing the water to make sure, and they did and they sent the results to the state. they did what they were supposed to do. they should proactively solve the lead levels were above the federal limit. toy should have volunteered take some action to put the measures into place rather than waiting but the situation -- however the situation develop. host: amena saiyid from bloomberg bna, the water pollution reporter there.

thank you so much for joining us and talking about this issue. that is all for today's washington journal. we will be back tomorrow at 7:00 a.m. join us then. have a great day. ♪ >> congressional republicans are holding their annual policy retreat in baltimore, maryland. our capitol hill producer, craig kaplan is there, tweeting this. reporters surrounding foreign affairs committee chairman ed royce. the tweet, ed royce at the g.o.p.