of the region on which economic growth and national security of these differences should be resolved by international law. we attended as observers the hearing in the hague in the case wrought by the philippines under the u.n. convention of the law of the seat. -- law of the sea. we look forward to learning the outcomes. we also look forward to, i the united states ratifying the united nations convention on the law of the sea. the u.s. already observes the treaty and is crucial for resolving potential flashpoints on many parts of the globe. hurts americann leadership where it is needed. let me conclude with book five -- there, the independent island

may loss wanted to maintain its independence in the war. ambassadors from athens were on the move. when they appealed for justice, they were met with a sneer as timeless as it is chilling. , thenow as well as we do ambassadors in athens said, that justice is to be found as only between equals in power. as for the rest, the strong doers, they will and the weak suffer as they must. the international order, the ensure law, seeks to that is not so and that might is not right. why we will always work with the united states and our owl are -- our other allies and partners. let me turn again to the digital domain. every aspect of our lives has

been transformed by the digital world of the internet. , the taste ofnomy its growth is supercharged by technology. its growth is supercharged by technology. we must ensure the internet continues to be governed by the communities that use it, not dominated by governments. freedom of the internet is vital to democracy and economic progress. cannot be ar lawless to maine. australia, the united states, and others will work together internationally to promote norms of behavior consistent with a free, open, and secure internet. not include states should support cyber enabled theft for advantage. this can put pressure on adversaries and openly imposing costs on malicious activities.

we need to do this while redoubling our work to counter the spread of pop again to which incites extremist violence. where i haveea already engaged constructively with many officials and i look forward to developing the cyber security agenda. according to the pew foundation's research on countries attitudes, 83% of americans declared themselves interested in the 2008 presidential elections. the same research showed the figure in australia was 84%. said that you have our attention and while we make no judgment on the partisan outcome, we hope the strong i partisan commitment to our alliance and to the maintenance of the secure international

order cannot be diminished. australia has never used the u.s. alliance as an excuse for unloading responsibility for our security onto the united states. we know that to enjoy the rules fororder and the stability it delivers, we must share the responsibilities that come with the. that is why we are making sustained and effective contributions in the battle of afghanistan and iraq. it is why we are building cooperation with many of our regional neighbors, including japan, india, and korea. that as -- that is why australia has worked so hard to develop security architecture whose members include china and the united states. some will claim this range of of receivingreats

american will or power -- that we are watching the fraying of the postwar order. we reject those sentiments. america is stronger than ever. its economy has rebounded from the great recession and its military, as the president reminded us last week, is the mightiest in the world. its entrepreneurs and engineers have literally imagined the modern digital worlds and brought it into existence. values that are neverlues -- they have been more important or more suited to the rapidly changing times in which we live. king could have been speaking for our times. he spoke for all times when he said the ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and

controversy. ,hat is why we stand together australians and americans, always united in freedom's cause. thank you very much. [applause] >> mr. prime minister, you have warmed the hearts of this audience, which i think is the largest audience i have seen at csis, which is remarkable because it is a federal holiday honoring martin luther king, and it is about five degrees outside.

welcome to washington and thank you for taking the time to talk to us. i'm the chair for southeast asian studies here and the codirector of our pacific , which includes australia and new zealand in the pacific, so thank you for spending time with us. i wanted to talk first about your relationship with indonesia. president andthe that his response to the terrible attacks last week in indonesia were very appropriate in your view. how can we and how should we support him and the indonesians who have bravely responded to this attack? encourage him to to take a global role in this fight against isil?

mr. turnbull: let me start at the end. the president is a charismatic leader. then out with him on one of his camps where he arrives relatively unannounced, a market, a shopping center. i went on one occasion to a which was a lot warmer than it is here. car and weof his went together. i was very hot and i said think we should take our jackets off. he said you will be fine. by the time the sweat was

, there through my eyes were thousands of people there -- thousands. they had for him was really inspiring. he is a very charismatic guy and is very much a politician that is very focused. lucy, my wife, the former mayor , she spent a lot of time talking about infrastructure. toertainly encourage him speak more widely and to speak globally. is the democratically elected leader of the largest muslim nation in the world. that is one big platform. how do we support him? we support him by supporting him

work on theing his security side. they work closely on counterterrorism and have done partnersyears as you including the united states. terrorism is a global challenge. it requires a global response is much morehat intelligence sharing. in thetion is gold intelligence business, but we have to share our intelligence and get a better understanding of what is happening other countries because boundaries are much less relevant than they used to be. someruth of the matter is

will say the middle east is a long way from australia. i guess it is in kilometers, but nowhere is a long way from anywhere in 2016. >> you talked a lot about china in your remarks and you were clear. to thing we face as we try understand a future in asia is inther the chinese will join making the rules and playing by not only in the asia-pacific, but globally. what do you think china wants to be? you spend a lot of your time understanding china. like to ask you for a deeper look at your perspective. firstly, i think china's economic rises seen by

rise, but less of a it's also a return to the natural order of things. china was as far as anyone can measure these things, until the mid-19th century, the largest economy in the world. againl no doubt become so , unless instability and conflict derail it. destiny.y is has a very strong sense of its exceptionalism. it has a strong sense of destiny, of dignity, as a great economy and great nation, it capabilityo have the

, the military capability that goes with that. the worst thing to do is to give if you take,n, but and i do, the chinese president at his word, i think it is his objective to avoid this inevitability of a rising power coming into conflict with an incumbent -- if that is his objective, he should and his government should calibrate every action to that test. if the test is how do we avoid the trap, any action likely to promote conflict or run the risk of doing so is one that should be avoided, particularly if there is an alternative way of

solving the issues. there is a whole international legal system that enables you to do that. >> i thought i heard you say when you were talking, reading between the lines, that you may be thenomics foundation of security and enduring security in asia. am i right about that and if i was, what do we need to do thinking beyond tpp and how does us really at tpp in that context? we are a free trade country. we have a high degree of bipartisanship on free trade. unlike historically, like our friends in canada, it has been a bitterly fought, partisan issue

for a long time. australians recognize free trade is important. have negotiated free-trade agreements with japan, korea and china. tpp we believe is another important free-trade agreement. the bottom line is this -- let me turn this around. we spend a lot of money, all of capabilities.y hope that wehe will not have to use it, that it will serve as a deterrent because it will raise the cost for others to challenge us to try to use force to impose their will upon us. connections, the

more extensive the economic engagement between countries, the higher the cost of conflict becomes. singlet that there is no saying it can not take the place of the defense budget. treasurers and finance masters would like to do that. but it means the cost of conflict is in or miss. think about the lyrical imperative in china of the government continue to deliver rising living standards and economic growth. of instability, the cost of the uncertainty that entail -- that entails is very hard. >> you mention australians are

keenly interested in american politics. thank you for that. i'm sure you are entertained. [laughter] know what youto think about this election coming up. [laughter] what would you like to see in terms of a leader in the white house you can work with -- [laughter] in 2017? mr. turnbull: i'm sure we will in -- whoeverver the american people in their wisdom choose. [laughter] [applause] i just add to that as i said earlier that partisanship is important. -- bipartisanship is important. it is important in america's interests. in terms of america upon

commitment to continuing to underpin the rules-based , there hasal order world --ur part of the has of the world's growth been underpinned by pax americana. see, the big geopolitical changes and economic changes come we have talked about china a lot, but that's only one of them. to maintain that order and that stability. all of our security and all of

our prosperity and that of our children and grandchildren depends on it. every ounce of our intellect to maintain that. that requires great institutions like the csi s to focus on the challenges. pitchnk you for the there. ladies and gentlemen -- mr. turnbull: this is the only thing that stands between the world and chaos. you should give him a raise. [laughter] thanks for that. my reviews tomorrow morning. toies and joan, i would like thank the promised her for joining us. i know you have an active schedule today. good luck with your meeting with the president tomorrow. anything you want to preview for us before you head in there? i think i have

dropped a few hints in the speech him already. >> please join me in thanking the prime minister. [applause] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [applause]

>> if you missed any of this

live event, you will find it on our website, c-span.org. the british parliament debated today banning donald trump from entering the united kingdom. signedan 570,000 people a petition calling for donald trump to be banned from the country because of his comments about muslims. that debate is coming up at 8:00 eastern here on c-span. it is the martin luther king memorial holiday. a look here at the martin luther king statue that opened in august of 2011, the 48th anniversary of the i have a in 1963.ech delivered this is the only memorial on the national mall to an african-american. it is surrounded by 14 famous quotes from dr. king's famous speeches.

>> tonight on "the commuters -- "the communicators" -- a fromssion on key topics the fcc, including internet speed across the u.s.. >> rock band claimant really is one of the key drivers of job creation and economic growth. one of the things i found striking was there has been a democratization of entrepreneurship. everywhere from sioux falls to montana, i've seen people building connections that they would have either had to migrate to one of the coasts or would have withered on the vine.

now, they are able to innovate and that is powerful in rural america. >> watch "the communicators" tonight on c-span two. >> up next, a conversation on the history of african american journalism. we will hear from the author of thebook "word warrior" from museum of the african the aspirin in san francisco. very happy to be presenting voices of freedom -- black voices in journalism and literature. to a familyat due emergency, one of our guest is unable to be here tonight. a are thrilled to have conversation this evening. sophia williams is the author of onrd warrior" which draws

hard to access family records from people like studs terkel and toni morrison. foram pays -- paves the way the pioneering newspapers like the chicago defender. incisive and in-depth, it tells the story of a tireless champion of african-american freedom and justice. professor ats is a howard university and the winner of three george oscar peabody awards as a radio producer. "weighed in the water" and "jazz profiles. interviewed tonight by an arts editor and senior writer for the san francisco bay

newspaper. she is a new orleans native raised in san francisco. we do have copies of the book for sale after the program. i know that she would be happy to sign copies of the book as well. welcomingn me in sonja williams. [applause] >> thank you very much. i have a few preamble words. her rendering of richard durham is within itself a masterpiece. fromombination of research the pages makes one want to know

more about the man and his work. early on in his life, he had a lot to accomplish and not a lot of time to get the work done. the finale which captures the authors attention when she was at the smithsonian institute. available for us to listen to as an added bonus. that one'ss show work, especially artistic work extends one life the on a temporal dimension. these are topics still addressed today in a nation that often christmas attic's the black cinderella story, that of lena horne, whose stepsisters i listen toand

these gems. another favorite of mine was railroad to freedom, the story of harriet tubman. richard durham was a word warrior. you mention in your book that he was a pragmatic optimist. what do you mean by that? >> good question. he was an optimist. even though freedom, justice and equality were principles that had to be continually fought for , he felt once people came together and consistently worked toward those principles that it was attainable. that you had to work. had to beething that fought for and you could fight for it through your words and

through organization and action. >> do people wonder how do you get like that? who was his family and where did he come from? mississippi inin 1917. his family was part of the great migration. they eventually moved from rural mississippi. they were actually kind of unique. his family owned a farm that they live on. if you are looking at mississippi in the early 20th century, the numbers of people that own their land in the south was miniscule. he is unique in that regard but his father and mother were indicated educational advocates. lovedoved to read, they information, and they love sharing it. eight children, seven

of whom survived into adulthood. he comes out of that tradition that education was like a mantra in the family. you were going to get educated and use that education to move forward. he is the most famous in that he was the most public figure in the family but his siblings were notable as well. earl durham became a professor at the university of chicago. he claimed his brother was the most famous that they were all accomplished. his sister became a supervisor at providence hospital. his younger brother became an engineer and worked here in l.a. and he is living in l.a. today. his next oldest sister works in the holding i in now at howard

university and moved to washington dc and worked as a supervisor. she was really into science. taught in the public school system in chicago and so you had siblings who may andhave gone into the media then as public, but they were around. >> your book reminds me of james baldwin's "the price of the us about your rhetorical choices and the drama and poetry which begins most of the chapters which starts with durham's many names, if not faces. not brought -- was not born richard from. , buts born isidore durham he told his sister he did not

like his birth name. izzy when he was growing up and by the time he became a teenager, when he started writing, he took on the front and names. where it camesk from. when he was 13 or 14, he joined a boxing club and was going to become the next heavyweight boxer of the world. at least that is what he told everyone. there is a young kid on the boxing team who was the best. his name was vernon patterson. i think when he's started writing, he figures if this guy is the best and i want to be the best, maybe i will use this as my pen name. but something happened with that because he wrote to mike hughes, we are talking about the 1930's. langston hughes was

world-renowned at this point. he writes to langston and sends some copies of his poems and let could you critique and me know what you think? amazingly enough, langston wrote him back. he said i went to paris and hollywood and back to new york and i have been carrying around all these letters with me and yours is one. he sat down, read the poems and literally critique them in the margins and sat here is what you can do to make it at her. he also said are you a boy or a girl -- i can't tell from your name. my conjecture is that he looked at that and said i need to be more definitive about this and then started using name richard. they thoughtsaid it was because he was fascinated by king richard the first.

they think that's why he went to richard and stuck with that as the name he eventually adopted. book, youlook at this will notice at the end there are quite a few interviews. you did a lot of research for this -- look how slender -- you can read this in may a full day or two days. tell us about your research process and how you found out about this man. >> both good questions. i found out about him because i ad the fortune to work on series called black radio, telling it like it was. it was a 13 part series for public radio and one of the

radiowas about blacks in in the 30's and 40's. two of my colleagues that had worked with the plays earlier said if you are going to do something about that series, you have to include his work on destination freedom. the series aired in chicago. you have to include that. when i went and listened to the tapes, i was blown away. the more research i did about not just destination freedom, but about richard durham, i was like why hasn't anything been written about this man. most of the things i did find were about destination freedom and his radio accomplishment, but very little about what

happened before or after that point. choices, he was a poet. he started out writing poetry and was really a good poet. it was trying to figure out how do i incorporate his poetry in the writing of the book. one of the ways was to start the early chapters with that. life inalk about mississippi and when they moved to chicago, what that was like for his family. >> he had other shows besides the concluding one. tell our audience about some of the other shows, particularly those that had inspired current shows and some of the shows that continued until recently. because hento radio

was a child of the depression. i think he was a preteen when the depression hit. by the time he was able to work to help the family, one of the things he did was apply to the illinois writers project. there were writers project around the country, but with the idea artists could document what was happening during the depression. radio. how he gets into there was a radio division in that project where literally every single week, these men and women would write scripts for local radio shows to air in chicago. that is how he gets into it and he develops this skill.

he decides i want to make a living as they radio script writer and applies to various programs and applies to write for the lone ranger. his families and friends say are you crazy? you are trying to write for this major series at a time when very few blacks worked in the media. radio may have been the most popular medium at the time, but you could count on very few hands the number of black americans who worked as writers, producers, and directors. his skill was enough that he was hired as a freelancer and he writes for "the lone ranger" and another soap opera. even with my students, a lot of the soap operas you see on television had their genesis

back in radio in the 30's, 40's and 50's. he got into that and in the 40's, he developed his own all-black soap opera which was unique for the time. and in the soap opera, you recognize the cast -- the head of the house was a physician and the wife was a stay-at-home mother and they had three children -- does that sound like a familiar show? that is so amazing. i don't know if they gave me any credit. >> they didn't. that show was called here comes tomorrow. or 1947.that in 1946

that theme carries forward through today. >> i thought it was fascinating he wrote why us soap operas are called soap operas. can you tell us the name of the woman he wrote for? viewd a home office with a of michigan and there were like five soap operas he was writing for. called the queen of the soaps. he started these soap operas that became so popular on radio that they wanted more. point, he had four or five different soap operas -- general hospital, one life to live -- i can't even remember all of them. but they became so popular and the networks wanted more so she

had to write all of these scripts. arethink about it -- if you writing for a daily or weekly show, that is massive enough. if you have five or six on different networks, you need help. you can't do that by yourself. she hired writers and they would take her concept and create the scripts and the actors would perform in. credit,them really got but they were the ones who took the ideas and made them manifest. it was called soap operas because soap companies sponsored the show. that is how the soap opera title came about. durham wrote for the chicago defender and that is an interesting story, particularly

his firing. i don't know if they were the first but you talk about the --ck insurance company >> it could not get funding. there was a show he did and the script was about this insurance company in philadelphia. thisottom line was when gentleman went to get money to refinance the building during the depression, they assessed the building this insurance and this was one of the major insurance companies for african-americans at the time. get aught maybe he could $50,000 loan and they assessed the building for like five dollars. he thought never mind, i will figure it out myself.

he went to the community and sold the product. he went back 10 years later or five years later and they were surprised he was still in business. it basically said that is because all americans, whether they are black or white are good investments. blackecause a company is doesn't mean you don't assess them properly. >> certainly in this book and looking at his life, we find out that radio is certainly political. but journalism is political. he is an artist first and then a journalist. he was not going to compromise his principles, which meant he

didn't always have an economic means because journalism wasn't necessarily a steady job. it was like working on contract almost. in the midst of all the things they are talking about, he did get married to a wonderful woman we get a chance to meet in these pages. you talk a little bit about the economics of radio and journalism and using richard durham's life as a sort of linchpin? married a woman whose family migrated to the north to chattanooga. 1941 and she's a

pretty little thing but she is also political and interested in the same kinds of things and they get married in 1942. becoming aigns on teacher and eventually goes back to school and does that. she becomes in the early part of their marriage the stable breadwinner. is working but almost always getting paid script by script. he's not hired as a writer in radio. to the chicago defender, he finds a place where he can say now i'm going to get a paycheck. of blackmic journalists is they are not paid well.

they were paid on a regular basis, but there was the whole idea that we should be making a little more to make a living. that is how he got into trouble. he was a writer and i need to say that over and over again which gets into what is happening today. writers can be, if not political, they can tell the truth and go after the truth and do that to the best of their ability. but what happens is sometimes you may anger some folks. aboutovering stories howd war ii america and world war ii america is affecting the black population in particular. he is looking at disparities in

housing and economics, the whole idea of restricted covenants and making sure black americans stay in one place. so that they can expand like anyone else in chicago or elsewhere. to work witharting people who are organizing within the chicago defender. it is designed to represent workers in newspapers across america. he along with others are lobbying for the ability for the chicago defender to be part of that union so they can increase their wages and have better pay and better working conditions.

as a result of that, he got fired. he was another person who, if he had a conviction, he would have followed that through despite price might be. if it meant losing a job or whatever, he would deal with it. i hope this isn't a spoiler, however, they hire him back. -- she's so good with storytelling. he ends up writing these few to full exposes and they always get published on the front page. talk to himle to even when what they are saying is not necessarily politically correct or you don't want to

have this on the front page of a newspaper. woman and shethis says all these things about black people. personmber one black lives in my town. remember that story? >> in 1944, he's covering the it wasntial election and about to be an election for president. ansevelt was running for an unprecedented fourth term. he decides he's going to do a story about the governor of new york and he was running as a republican against president roosevelt. he goes to interview do we's mother in a small town in michigan. that was this whole thing

michigan or that particular town had this rule that if you were black, once the sun went down, you could not be in the town. you had to be gone. he goes in and interviews do we's mother. we have always welcomed negroes or african-americans and we remember there was one time, one family in this city, but what happened was, he got into trouble for that article not because of that that near the governor dewey's mother made some anti-semitic statements and he printed what she said. printed, the jewish community had a fit and mrs. dewey denied she said it. and he said you did. that brought him a little

notoriety. it was really interesting that he wrote poetry, wrote this great literary nonfiction and got all these awards for it. awards for his front page news. >> the american newspaper award -- guild gave him an award. -- i thinkhe first he was the first person to get recognition from a president -- i think it was truman. he wrote for the defender and then had a radio show called democracy usa. did amy goodwin hate that? you think she took it? >> i don't know about that.

>> could you talk about democracy usa? he had to tell this whole story and it was just fantastic. the types of stories he told in democracy usa. decided they may be wanted to explore some other ways to market the paper and figured radio is popular, let's try to sponsor a radio show that would come on once a week and feature men and women who, through their accomplishments epitomized the principles of democracy. folks had this range of and he was not the sole script writer, but they did this and this is the show that one all of these awards and really did help to get the the defender's name out there.

the defender and other african-american newspapers of that time, we are talking about mid 40's, during world war ii, that was their highest readership time. the leadership really went up and circulation went up during that time because they wanted to know what was happening throughout america and also with the military and jim crow. >> you talk a little bit in the book about the structure of the black newsroom. we have the editor and we have the editor who mentored a young durham. think he is haitian. you have news men

and women who have worked in various fields, whether in print or broadcast. mentor the younger generation of reporters coming in trying to make their way. he has a phd from the sorbonne in paris and was the editor-in-chief of the chicago defender but he mentored everyone who came in and recognized durham was an excellent storyteller, but he was slow. they did not want him to do breaking stories, so he became a top-notch investigative reporter, so he could take longer to develop the stories and go out and write. we mention a little bit about some of the writers who were part of the illinois writers

project. the writerke community was really tight and it is interesting -- i'm trying to remember, gwendolyn brooks -- >> they were born the same year end they were in elementary school together. went toief time, they high school together but in terms of the writers in the writers group, when he was part of the illinois writers project, he was in this warm and inviting and nourishing community of writers that included nelson algren and saul bellow. who else? katherine dunham. even richard wright. by the time durham join the writers project, durham had moved to new york, but he

influenced everyone and said he was one of his mentors in terms of checking out his writing. >> going back to the newspaper, the way the assignments went, langston hughes wrote for the defender and he had the jesse be and he had like a real following. likeay it works is almost the journalists were issue driven and had a sort of niche as opposed to one person having the idea of the way it should work. compare the black press today to the black press them?

i know you are going to mention to star reporter -- i wanted give you an opportunity to bring her into the story. >> if you know anything about her story, she was a high near and an advocate for freedom and justice against inching and was a prolific writer. i wanted to play just a clip or two where the character who played her talks about what her mission and goals was. i think it's an excellent of what many reported in the black press early on and even today think about their goal. >> my mission was to resist tyranny wherever i found it. and with this in mind, i took my

savings one afternoon to john fleming, the editor of a small memphis newspaper. idea of a like the newspaper business with a woman. no good will come of it. >> you are superstitious. >> perhaps, but i have a notion you meant to put into practice what men around here only preach. if you do, there will be trouble . what do you intend on printing? >> i would like to print the true story of memphis and tell the story about it -- about segregation in the education system. i can see with you on the staff, we will live up to every word of it. >> when i play this for my students, they are like that oregon -- that is old time he. comes from an

episode about ida b wells that came from the freedom series. this next clip typifies the kinds of stories she followed and champion. >> there is a negro grocery on neil street saying you have been negro to live in a neighborhood. >> just a regular story. >> i went into the small grocer and find why he was not wanted in business. want my story? >> i'm from the free speech. you have been writing to us. >> it won't do no good. trouble has been started. trouble over who is to profit on the business in colored neighborhoods. i tried to tell the police about it but they are not on my side. someone is coming.

a lynching. ofill stay till my last drop blood is gone. will stand with you. >> you have only got a small paper. >> sometimes, one clear voice is worth 100 cloudy ones. stick to your story, i will stick to my newspaper. every day, i told the story of the growing pressure and how prejudice was used against him like a weapon. i saw him rose. trouble, but i have found the true, and the circulation was rising faster. >> i think that gives you a sense of not only his philosophy, but his poetic sense, and the way he puts these words in these characters mouths.

the other thing is that when you talk about -- ida b. wells's paper came out in 1889, and 50 years later, during his working and hism is working, first story was to go back and talk about conditions there. one of the conditions he tried to talkas edward krome about the poll tax voting restriction. 50 years later, we are still talking about voting issues. you can see that, yes, there has been progress, but there is also this reoccurring, continuing need to fight. one of the things i found in doing research is that his philosophy, the thing he told his reporters when he was an editor, and of thing he did as a writer, was that you had to use

your words as a weapon, but you also had to do it over and over again. you couldn't write about an issue once, you had to write about it several different times and in several different ways. durham, who was not only about writing several different race for print, was using all forms of media, whether it was television, print, orally, for radio. his thing was all of that. and it also speaks to what is happening with the black lives matter movement, that, yes, we are talking about black lives matter. he talked about it in his story. but it is also that you need to organize and to use that organization to get messages out in different forms. of media, i think you would have been all over that. [laughter] he would have found all kinds of

creative ways to deal with social media and use that as a way to say black lives matter, because -- and he said this several times in several different interviews -- that basically, the story of african-americans is this story that is recognizable around the world, because many people are oppressed, many people are undereducated or underemployed, or have no access or limited access to proper health care if you look at our story in this country and you extrapolate to the world, you will find that people will be interested in our stories because it resonates with oppressed masses. >> yeah. the themes of his various stories in print or in radio certainly resonate. he did it artistically. >> he did.

>> he spoke beautifully, particularly "destination freedom." he's looking at people of african descent, americans, who did great things. the doctors, the freedom fighters, the actors and actresses, and even regular folks that believe in justice. >> exactly. yeah. >> you have almost covered on the questions. oh. i was wondering if you could talk about -- was he editor or one of the writers? >> he was the editor. >> what year was that and how did that happen? then segue into the mohammed ali friendship. inhe became the editor 1962. we're talking about the early

60's. it's interesting because his brother and sister said they were like, why would you want to go and work for the nation of islam? not because it was bad, but because he wasn't religious. butid not convert to islam, he saw it as a way of extending the reach, reaching people in another fashion. the thing about mohammed in the nation of islam is that it was about getting information out to people so hopefully they could come into the nation to educate. that because he wanted to reach masses of people, he had to have people who knew how to do that. people who could write, who could report, who knew what they were doing. if he didn't have that kind of population in the nation at that

point, then you go to the folks who did. andfolks approached durham another man named savage, who eventually became a congressman in illinois for about 12 years. he asked if they would consider editing "mohammed speaks." they both considered it, durham decided to do it, and then he started hiring staff. it was pretty unique. like the christian science decided,they -- durham that there, would be some separation between the news of the world, whether we are talking about chicago or the united states or international news, would be separate about the news of the nation of islam. resonate, because

the circulation continued to grow during his editorship. the coverage of international stories about freedom struggles, whether they were in south africa or in kenya, or in china, or in vietnam, were all covered in "mohammed speaks." in interviewing many of the reporters who worked with durham, they say he was the best writer on that paper, and all learned by seeing how he edited their work. of working ast the ender, that is how he got a chance to meet and work with mohammed ali. ali had become or was becoming a spokesperson for the nation. when he was banne from fightingd, there was a whole question about how he was going to be able to make a living. if he could make a living at what he was great at. the nation sent him out on

lecture tours, so he went to college campuses. but what about your autobiography? tell the story of your life. that would be the hope. mohammed ali was a great talker. he was not a writer. they approached richard durham because, again, they liked his work, and asked if he would be the credited ghostwriter for ali's book. yes. saiam said he spent nearly five years working on it. out, it was a top seller, integrated into many different languages. the other thing about "the greatest" and that whole process, was that for four years, he followed mohammed ali everywhere.

he interviewed him many times, interacting with his first and second wives. he was there, and he really got to know and really like mohammed ali. was a woman i'm sure people have heard of, toni morrison. ms. morrison said she liked working with durham because he was such a good writer, and she also liked working with ali. he flirted with her first. [laughter] but the only problem she said she had with the whole project m kept promising a manuscript and didn't deliver, because he was traveling the world with ali. at one point, they were talking about maybe getting another writer, but he was so good, and whenever he turned in a copy of

chapters,r manuscript they were so great that they just stuck with it. the book came out in 1975, and "the greatest," the film based on the book, came out two years later. >> that's awesome. so he obviously also got a chance to meet malcolm x., too. didn'trobably did, but i find any evidence in my research that they interacted. that given that he was the editor of the paper that he knew what was happening with malcolm x. i was really interested in finding out if he wrote anything about the whole dispute between malcolm x. and elijah mohammed right before malcolm left the nation, into didn't. -- and he didn't.

rights brother said that, around that whole controversy about whether or not he will stay in the nation, that once he left, durham thought that and he x. really grew, could see that he was expanding his worldview and embracing a more traditional form of islam. he thought that would happen more with some other members of the group once the split happened. in terms of what their relationship was like, i couldn't find anything. >> i was just thinking that for durham, it was almost as though his life had come full circle because he wanted to be the greatest, because early on he was a boxer. vicariously be able to do this -- he and that being the greatest. he's a silent voice. >> and he worked with the

greatest. >> it's pretty cool. there any moments like this for you where there thingsrt of -- angst sort of came together in the work that you do, and now you were doing the work and teaching others how to do this work of giving stories life that might not have life, whether it be airways or print media. what sort of comes up for you? >> yeah. andof the things i learned feel blessed to have been a part of is, him doing the research and reading his writing, he was really a poetic write. my thing was, for my writing for radio, i really want to try and

continue that. it really does make a difference. it draws people in. it's not just .8, point become a point see. b, pointoint a, point c. you can flow into the points. it will keep the listener's attention. one of the tests was this past semester, i had my students -- we had a collaboration between my students and theatre arts. we took one of his best nation freedom plays, a play about the women's suffrage leader, and i said, ok, we are going to perform this as a live performance. my students would deal with the sound, any of the sound and music, and the theater arts

students became the actors. they had to read and analyze the script and they dealt with the background, and they really got into it. it really is -- this was written but here we are in 2015 and there is still something to be learned about how you write for the yeaear, and/or how you write a play that still resonates about a historic figure, but his contemporized. relate.ear-olds who can >> right. i think i'm coming to the end of my list. i think it talked about this a little bit. without even,

saying it, present him as a hero but not as infallible. he has a disability, he is unsure of himself. where does this come from? he desired to go to college, and he ended up getting an opportunity to get this great radio training, which is sort of like giving him tools that really help him hone his craft. leaves his wife and he comes and and he leaves his wife around that not being able to provide, he has a son who is a great jazz musician. again, you start the book with a dirge. >> [laughter] well, mark durham -- he's an

only child. he's also a fantastic writer. when durham was working on "the greatest," the book, he hired his son when they went over to work on capturing the whole lead for theli's fight wit championship. mark then goes out, getting inor with what is happening the training and all that. that's unique, because he is essentially passing on his method of writing and his thinking to his son. that, even thing is though durham died in 1984 --

and he worked in all mediums. by the time he died, the year before he died, he became a speech writer and political strategist for harold washington, who became the first black mayor of chicago. he's reading with harold washington on the campaign trail, as he's going around to various campaign spots, and he's offering advice, and writing speeches. or suggesting speeches. howard washington was very articulate and a great writer himself, but he couldn't do everything. he's doing this, and it's amazing. it shows you that you need to be flexible. path close down or wasn't quite available, then he can move on to something else. some of the was necessity that

she had to make a living -- but a lot of it was the idea that you can use your words and in the service of freedom and the quality. equality. if it meant working for a newspaper, fine. if it was working for television and rating television scripts, that was cool. one of the things that durham of u whodied -- many ripss "law and order," the the headlines. he ripped from many headlines and he didn't write them himself. know about the black panther party, and look at was happening with the panthers december's, in 1969 in

there was a raid by the fbi agents and chicago police agai nst the black panther department of fred hampton. he died in the raid. the police claimed that it was a shoot out between them and these young panthers at 3:00 4:00 in the morning, but actually but ended up coming out was another investigation saying it in, that thehoot police went into eliminate this threat of these radical black panthers. what durham did it one of the shows for the television series was he dramatized that. it didn't get aired, because they were like -- oh, no, this is too radical. a few months after the actual murder.

you canshows you, yes, take what is happening in the news and in life. if durham had been alive and still writing, he would look at what's happening with police oftality and the whole idea excessive force and the black tomunity and find ways dramatized that, and talk about not just the surface, but the forces behind it. this did this -- how did relationship deteriorate so strongly? do some people in the black community not trust the police? how did that evolve into where we are now? even back then. there are ways you can creatively talk about issues, but get past the surface and go back to the deeper issues.

and then, talk about what are some solutions, so you are just saying here is what happened, how terrible. no, how do we move forward? >> great. now, perhaps, we can take some questions from the audience. >> many questions from the audience? -- any questions from the audience? >> hi, good evening. thank you for sharing your work with us. i had the pleasure -- a few hads ago i read -- and i the pleasure of meeting with him in talking to him about the book. i know he was saying that a lot of the work he did allowed the international community to become aware of the civil rights movement. any ofhard durham, in his work, have that

international visibility, and how did i contribute to the international community knowing about what was going on? >> in terms of being distributed internationally? >> not distributed internationally, but did his work have reach? where he contributed to people abroad when it came to race relations? >> i think in terms of him -- working inious various communities and on various projects. in 1945, he was here in san francisco because that was when there was the big all nations conference that led to the formation of the united nations. we take for granted the united but there existing, was a whole struggle about what this thing is going to be.

what the united nations would do to enforce peace. there was a coming together of nations. one of the things he did, and this was before "the chicago interviewed and wrote articles about smaller nations like liberia and haiti, thing we need to talk about the equality of all nations, not just the united states. tiny nations. relationshiphe between the charter of the united nations was going to be and how that could include everyone. anwas participating in couldational meeting that -- that did have major impacts. the other thing was that in 1955, there was the band in conference, which was a meeting of nations of color, asian and african.

not the major entities, but the other nations, coming together to talk about what they should do to cooperate and deal with issues. he participated in that. i terms of your question, don't know how much influence he had, other than the fact that he covered these things. he was a participant and he was definitely all about worldwide or global integration and interaction. thank you. >> any other questions? don't be shy. [laughter] >> i'd like for you to talk a little bit about your writing process, on the time it took you youccomplish this, and how

approach the subject matter. >> you don't want to know about the time. it took too long. [laughter] i started this -- i found out about durham in the 1990's when i worked on the smithsonian series. i didn't get to it until the early 2000's, because i was working on other projects. when i decided to do it, i started research, and thank goodness he talked about the interviewed. people like oscar brown. j, jr., and scriptwriters -- ver non derek, a syndicated columnist in chicago. these people are unfortunately no longer here. in 2002, which is when i started

to research, i had the opportunity to start interviewing folks and could go back to them several times when there were holes in things i didn't ask. then i became head of my department at howard, and that meant i had even less time to concentrate on it. but i would work on it during breaks. mrs. durham was really, really key. she introduced me to folks i didn't know about, his colleagues and friends, family members. wasne point in 2007, durham inducted into the national radio hall of fame. this greatting in black-tie event in chicago, and she says, i was the book coming? -- how is the book coming? she was in her 80's at that point, 80 something. she said -- i would like to see this before i die.

ok, i got it! no pressure! that, by the time happened, i had started to work, spend more time -- in terms of the process, i took a sabbatical in 2010. upould spend a year shoring my research in dealing with the writing, sending queries that s out for the publisher. the last few years, it was all about writing and rewriting and editing. when i did get the publisher, they told me -- here's your word limit. i had almost twice as many. that's not going to work. but there's nothing to take out! yes, there is. it reminded me, basically, of working in radio.

you have 58 minutes, 29 minutes, 15 minutes, 5 minutes. i don't care how great someone's interview is or how fantastic the information is, you have got to keep it down. you can't go over. it's the same kind of process with this. it's hard because with radio, my first draft, i was writing as if i was writing for the ear. oh, that's asay -- great quote, let me throw it in their word for word. people reading it, what is this? why is this big chunk here? no one is going to read this, this is an radio. ok,d to go back and say, do i do?

there were things that didn't make it in, but i could use it on my website or in other fashions. it was hard. 14, 15 years. yes, ma'am. no joke. labor of love. [laughter] >> how are you? can i just ask your prospective on [indiscernible] recipe you think is the -- are the common things you see that people who become great writers. in terms of life experiences, perspective? what do you think are some of the things great writers have in common? >> great question. one is perseverance. writer.t become a good

some people have natural talent for the words, but if you're writing for a particular medium, even if you are just writing for know thatyou have to just because you think it or someone tells you it or whatever that that's going to be interesting to someone else -- you have got to figure out how to craft it so that your mother, father, sister, brother may love it, but joanne down the street who doesn't know you, you have to also reach her and someone else. it's about, persevering into being willing and able to rewrite and take criticism. that is probably one of the hardest things all artists great -- what do you mean, you don't understand? it's not about you.

well, it is about you, but it is also about what you are writing about and making sure it is clear to someone who doesn't know you. the other thing is -- we talk about talent, and yes, some people are naturally gifted in certain ways. he was definitely gifted. but he had to work on his gift. one of the things that was illustrated to me as a radio producer and writer was that when i read his earlier scripts, they were terrible. they were terrible. he was writinge long soliloquies -- it is not a play. you won't see someone walking across the stage, you are only going to hear it. he had a gazillion characters, and sometimes, if you don't have a good sense of who was talking, you get lost. you're hearing this male

character -- how do we know this is a different male character? -- you have to condense the number of people that are going to be in a play. and you can't read didactic. yes, freedom is this and that, but unless you find a way to illustrate it and dramatize it, it's like i'm lecturing. drama. not all of those things determine what kind of separates a good writer from someone who is just kind of putting their thoughts on paper. or whatever, on a computer. yeah. >> i want to add something. from your book. you share with us about richard durham, about what he read. i wasf them -- wb

wondering if you could share with the audience why these particular writers -- a voraciouswas reader. that's the other thing about writing. in order to be a good writer, you have to be a committed reader, someone who loves the word. if you see what other writers who are excellent in what they do, have a right and how they stretch themselves, it can inspire you. was a dubois, he duboisian. even as a teenager, he read everything he wrote. he left his analysis, and if you read him now, you will see that not only was he a sociologist and someone who could look at a situation in the country and analyze it, but he was also a lyrical, poetic writer in his own way.

charles dickens -- he looked ved dickens because he was one of the best if not the best storyteller. he could grab you, grab the reader's attention from the first word. all of that. the characters, we still talk about today. tiny tim, scrooge. he found a way to get you into a and byight at the top, a the way he told the story, keep you there. the other person was langston hughes. he said he was like a chemist, knew how to take these elements and put them together and create these wonderful -- not just combs, but short stories. radio, soworked in

his dramas were exciting as well. he read everyone. theirr he agreed with philosophies are not, he read them to see how they express themselves, so that when he did, he could synthesize the ideas and use them on his own. >> my question is, being a professor of journalism and media, how do you encourage or mentor younger writers at your university to channel thei creativr creative writing -- instead of writing stories or investigative journalism, to aboutabouto write

solutions or whatever they want to express, using storytelling to capture solutions? >> yeah. that's a good question. , there arertment students who are interested in radio -- not so much radio, but audio. television and film, journalism, broadcast, print. whetherhose elements, you are talking about narrative film or investigating new stories -- in news stories, if it is hard news, you have to tell the story, and you don't necessarily have that objective. but if it is an interpretive story, where you are looking at a situation and then you may try to interview people who can provide a broader perspective.

here's the situation, here is what this could mean in terms of the solution. not necessarily the reporter providing it. on the narrative, more creative sides, you can do that. short, orite or film you can do something for television with contemporary topics. it deals with some kind of solution. there are many different ways, and the great thing is that our department, many of the students take some classes together so level, the beginning when they are juniors -- when they are sophomores and freshmen, they may do the same kinds of stuff and they branch off, but they can still take courses in film directing or scriptwriting for narrative film.

that gives them a broader sense of how to tell a story. i've had plenty of students who say broadcast journalism may either be an anchor, and yet they will take the narrative courses so that they understand that storytelling can be -- what can be and how they might incorporate dramatic elements. yeah. thank you. >> thank you both so much. what a wonderful conversation. [applause] >> the british house of commons today held debate on whether donald trump should be barred from entering the united kingdom because of his comments about muslims. more than 570,000 people signed a petition in britain calling for him to be banned from u.k. but today here in the u.s., at liberty university, republican presidential candidate said he is not changing his stance on immigration. syrians, that the

we have no idea who they are, they want to come into our country, they may be isis, it maybe the great trojan horse -- who knows? we cannot take a chance. i want to build a saison someplace -- a safe zone, someplace in syria. what is happening in germany is in brussels, europe is being absolutely swamped and destroyed. what is going on with the crime in the problems? it could be some sinister plot. you look at these migrations, the lines, you look at the tremendous amount of young, strongmen in those lines, and you say what is going on? obama wants to take in thousands and thousands of people. we can to do it, folks, we can to do it. we don't know anything about the people. we want a free zone and safe zone where we -- we have to get

them funded, to put up the money. don't forget, without us, they wouldn't be there very long. and with the military, by the way, we are protecting countries that are behemoths. are protecting countries that are so rich, so powerful, so incredible -- south korea, we protect south korea. we have buildings in south korea, but we are protecting south koreans with 28,000 soldiers on the line. between the maniac in south korea, we are protecting them. we protect germany, be protect japan, we protect countries -- before the oil price came down, saudi arabia was making $1 million per day. we protect them. they pay us practically nothing compared to the cost. they have got to pay up. we can't do this anymore. we have to run it like a business, but with heart. debate fromave the

the british house of commons on whether donald trump should be banned from the u.k. tonight, here on c-span in :00 p.m. eastern. -- on c-span at 8:00 p.m. eastern. >> for this year student can documentary contest, students are telling us the issue they want the presidential candidates to discuss, and we are hearing from them as they produce their videos. here's a tweet from a social studies teacher in north carolina. a virginia congressman tweeted -- students from lakeside high school in arizona tweeted, "more of our day at the capital, thanks again john vines and senator clark for the tour." a social studies teacher in new jersey tweeted, "interviewing

for a project about school bullying." there is $100,000 in prizes with the grand prize of $5,000. the deadline is january 20, 2016. for more information, visit our website. thehere'll kindle is executive director of the arms control association, back at our desk .

iran hadi had completed key steps for bomb grade, so they took down about centrifuges from there to facilities. they shipped out of iran 8.5 tons of enriched uranium stock. they removed and filled the reactor core of a reactor that could have produced up to two bombs worth of plutonium. that was also taking care of.

they shipped out of iran 8.5 tons ofthey took the steps neceo allow the the not just to inspect their declared facilities but to initiate a much more robust inspection and monitoring system that will last therecades to make sure are no illicit nuclear activities at declared or undeclared facilities. it's a big step, and all of these measures, now having been taken, a lot of the united thees and the eu to lift sanctions that have been in place, particularly for iran, with the sale of oil, to allow them to engage in banking activities. this is going to help the iranian economy but it will take a while.

oil assets have been frozen. there are various estimates from the u.s. treasury department, saying that the net amount iran will receive his around the vicinity of $50 billion immediately. they owe a lot to a lot of other countries for projects, so they will get a net of $50 billion. they will be able to sell oil, of the benefits won't be as high. president rouhani is very much hoping that the lifting of the sanctions will have political benefits. there are elections coming up from the iranian parliament in less than a month. he's hoping it will help his chances and the so-called pragmatists. think the do you implementation of this process means for nonproliferation efforts throughout the region? guest: we think this is a huge

step forward. just a couple years ago, iran spusp of on the cosups of having enough material for one bomb. one of them could have produced enough for two. if that for the interim agreement that was struck in the fall of 2013, and this final agreement struck in 2015, iran 30,000ight have had centrifuges online, installed. they might have had this plutonium production operating. they may have had enough uranium material for as much as three nuclear bombs. we went have had the inspections we have today. the situation could have been far worse. they have been substantially moved backwards. the paths for a nuclear weapon,

we believe, are effectively blocks for at least 15 years. huge step forward. it is a big victory for nuclear nonproliferation. host: what could have been done better in this process? what was left on the table? guest: it's not a perfect agreement. there was a lot of criticism in washington. criticisms, the two things we would have liked to have seen, was that some of the restrictions on iran's nuclear program could have lasted longer and that they might have been much more substantial. but the goal here was not to eliminate all of their nuclear capacity, to take away their potential for peaceful

activities. that is not something they would have agreed to. so they could not race to -- they might have been able to produce enough nuclear material for one nuclear bomb in two months two years ago. that time is at least a year if not more away. and we have -- the president spoke about this -- we have a very robust inspection system in place that will almost immediately detect any iranian effort to get around the restrictions. that will allow the international community to respond very quickly, probably well ahead of their ability to amass enough material for one nuclear weapon. host: the president spoke about this yesterday from the white

house. here is a bit from his statement about the agreement. [video clip] president obama: even as we implement the nuclear deal and welcome our americans home, we recognize that there remain profound differences between the united states and iran. we remain steadfast in opposing the behavior elsewhere, including threats against israel and our golf partners and its support for violent proxies in places like syria and yemen. andits support of terrorism for it ballistics missile program and we will enforce it figures like. their recent missile test was a violation of the international obligations, and as a result, the u.s. is imposing sanctions on individuals and companies working to impose their missile program. we are going to remain vigilant.

we will not waver in the defense of our security. we will get into some of those issues, including the ballistic missiles program in iran. we want to bring our viewers into this conversation. we will start with patrick in trenton, new jersey. patrick, go ahead. caller: good morning. two points. how could the administration deal with iran with such a heavy hand while letting north korea run wild? the special interests at hand -- iran is ounext to israel,

and i've seen the martin luther king videos and i would like to wish everyone -- thank you. guest: you want to talk -- guest: to you mentioned mlk oun, and day. martin luther king was a strong advocate for ending the nuclear arms race in the 1950's and 1960's. on north korea, another proliferation threat -- the obama administration has expended a great deal of energy in the successful negotiation to reach the iran deal. it has been more difficult with north korea. we would like to see further engagement with north korea to begin with. their nuclear program is quite advanced. they just conducted their fourth earlier this month. they are producing plutonium and highly enriched uranium. the other problem with the north koreans is that they have a

ballistic missile program and they could be able to arm that ballistic missiles with nuclear warheads, especially if they had more nuclear testing to perfect them. it's important to engage the north koreans and to put more pressure on the north koreans. pressure alone in sanctions alone with north korea won't do the job, however. it will require more chinese support. but the north is not as susceptible to sanctions as iran was. iran's quite integrated to the international economic system in north korea is not. this is a ticking time bomb. that has already gone off and it will get worse. for thel be a problem next president, and it is something that will require a different approach, more effective, to curbing the program.

host: mary in michigan -- you are on. caller: good morning. i'd like to say a few things. when you get to this nexus, you are talking about north korea. there's a nexus between them and iran. even if iran is not enriching, north korea is. they will be happy to hand over some of their material. my main point, though, was that there is a part of this deal where during the inspection iscess, the american citizen going to be paying iran about $1 million per year for them to self inspect their own military nuclear sites. sorry, i don't think that is a good use of our taxpayer money, and i think this

was a bad deal. sorry. have a good day. guest: the caller brings up a couple points. first of all, on the inspections issue, it's the international atomic energy agency that will be doing these inspections. the director general just the other day was talking about some of the new tools the agency is going to have, 20 47 real-time -- 24/7ing access, short notice access to anything they are concerned might be involved in undeclared activity. they will have monitoring in place on all of iran's uranium mines and mills. the chain will be under the watchful eye of the iaea. their budget is going to

increase by about three times for their iran-related work. it is the american taxpayer that is paying about a 20% portion of the total budget for worldwide inspections. it's going to be important for the congress to continue to support the iaea so they can do their job. it is not self inspections by any means. that is a misinterpretation of this agreement. host: a big concern among those critical of the disagreement is the undeclared sites. in your view, the nuclear fuel chain you talked about, how hard would it be to have a separate nuclear fuel chain that's off the grid? guest: it would be very tough, justrt because you aren't trying to invade the inspectors at one point. m athave to evade the

several points. if you are a cheater, the likelihood you will because is substantial at each phase. in the end, you have to calculate that it is quite likely you will because before you can "benefit" from the cheating. before this diplomatic agreement, the international atomic energy agency was in iran. they were inspecting the declared facilities. but now they have a much wider and much deeper look into iran's program. we are in a much better position to guard against that secret program that iran could theoretically percent in order to amass enough material for nuclear weapons. host: maine is up next, on the republican line. good morning. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, www.c-span.org good caller: good morning.

i have a question about all the plutonium that is going to russia. what is russia going to do with it? i haven't heard any discussion about that. the other question i have is what about this exemption of nuclear testing or production --tems iranians needed to lend down or ship out. the quantity we are talking about is 8.5 tons. to get it down to the 300

kilogram limit it requires. had that whole quantity, they could enrich it further to bring it up to farm grade. now they don't have that capability. one of the ways in which the different parties can be dealt with quickly was to ship out the -- they have am huge nuclear industry and they have the capacity to store this material and to use it in their own commercial activities to to vendors forel electricity production. it is also geographically convenient for this material to go from iran to russia, which is close by. russia, we have got to remember,

has more nuclear weapons and any other country. they have enormous fissile material, that can be used to make nuclear weapons. the fact that russia has a .5 tons of low enriched uranium is not a proliferation problem in itself, in part because russia already has a great deal more of highly enriched uranium and plutonium in storage. host: a tweets as we have two different views -- "this was simply a postponement while obama is still in office, all about his legacy regardless of future costs." "show me any bilateral agreement that was perfect, you won't find any." we are talking with darryl kimball. for those who aren't familiar with the arms control association -- inst: we were established

1971 and our mission is to provide information about the world's most dangerous weapon. we publish today. we are active here in washington on policy issues, and we work a great deal to try and encourage a diplomatic solution. host: he is taking your calls for the next 20 minutes or so, here on "washington journal." the republican line -- good morning. caller: good morning. mentionednew jersey earl -- i wasames why -- asring