the difference between brokered and contested political conventions. will talky mankoff about vladimir putin's decision to withdraw the russian military from syria. ♪ good morning. it is saturday, march 19, 2016. you've been watching the program regularly you have noticed the scaffolding on the capital which is now beginning to come down as workers of nearly finished fixing the capitol dome. here on this program will ask you with the first 45 minutes or so about your ideas for fixing politics. this after a week of a brewing supreme court fight, contentious hearings on capitol hill, and continued heated words on the campaign trail. your ideas to fix politics. (202) 748-8000 the line for democrats. four republicans, (202) 748-8001 .

and for independents and others, (202) 748-8002. you can also join us on twitter. welcomed onare facebook. -- comments are welcomed on facebook. we want to start with a series again yesterday in the "lookingn post called for america." the headline of yesterday's piece was the great unsettling. the first of four pieces. they travel for three months talking to voters about the political situation in the country, particularly on the presidential situation. the headline in the washington post. they write that each presidential campaign has its own rhythm and meeting -- meaning, but this one has an exaggeration of everything that came before it. of so the culmination

many long-emerging trends in american life. the decomposition of traditional institutions. the dissent of political desk politics into reality tv entertainment. demographic and economic shift quickening the impulses of inclusion and exclusion. and us versus them all of it leading to the moment of settling with the republican party unraveling. reflecting the splintering not only of the body politic but of the national ideal. i will review a bit more from is.id moran us -- morran we want to ask you your ideas for fixing politics. we go first it'salso from oklahoma and robert on the republican line. good morning to you. caller: this is then sent. -- vincent. i believe we should wait for the president to come in. when cruz is elected he should do it. host: more broadly. let's broaden the question a

little bit. that is particular on the supreme court pick. given the state of washington, the partisan nature of washington, what other ideas do you have? caller: host: here is omar in maryland. go ahead. caller: good morning. my idea to fix politics is simple. i think we have to take the money out of it. right now there are too many corporate interests. whether you are a democrat, republican, independent, everybody has their own agenda and it is not -- the politicians are not working for the common good. the government is for sale. host: how do you explain in terms of money the self-funded campaign like donald trump? he is using his own money so they would say he's not beholden to any supporter in terms of money. caller: in theory that is true,

but i disagree. he does have a lot of donations still. a candidate like donald trump in my opinion is a bit of an anomaly. i don't think he is out to support the common good either. there is a lot of power to be had. maybe if you don't have any corporate interests you still have the self interests and i don't think that is the helper, good. host: the partisanship nature in washington on both sides. we want to show you the comment of harry reid lending to republican party. for the rise of donald trump [video clip] >> many americans are scratching your head about donald trump. i know i have on more than one occasion. most of us cannot fathom how he is gone so far and so fast. his vile rhetoric is embarrassing. his proposals are dangerous. republican step --

establishment is the will did with a should not be be welded. as much as they try to distance themselves, leaders are responsible for his rise. -- they replace thoughtful engagement with resentment and hatred. we are seeing it right now with president obama's nomination for the supreme court. a full month before they knew who the nominee would be republicans already pledged to block him or her and treat him or her but you cannot. -- like a pinata. behaviorhe mindless that is holiday out our political debate and given the tradition that conditions for trump to rise. donald trump has simply struck the match. host: gary reed at the center for american progress earlier this week -- harry reid. your ideas for fixing politics. we get a harbor city, california. caller: yeah.

is our last three presidents had to terms. as soon as they got their second term and were sworn in they were lame ducks. right from the beginning of the second term they are lame ducks. we are only getting four years. -- theyng is when he could have had three terms and they would have been all right. into 12.t years what happens is they are not going to do anything -- they know they are not under be running for office again. to -- then going they can say why we vote for a supreme court judge. host: the last three term

president we had was fdr, right? caller: yes. people are healthier now. our presidents can take three terms. host: let's hear from james in seattle, washington. good morning. caller: yes, thank you. there is nothing wrong with donald trump. the united states has always been a racist country. donald trump -- these are the people are george wallace's age. this is how america thinks. there is nothing exceptional about america with white people. if you look at what donald trump is saying, i'm an african american, some of the things sayingat donald trump is like the rule of law.

the government's foot has been on our nexus we came over here. these people are not -- mad about their own situations. these people are angry. he used the here talk when people would say the angry black man. now it is like is popular for white people to be mad. -- tell me about yourself. do you feel politically angry towards washington? caller: we do not want garland. host: james in seattle talking about the anger of the voters. some comments from donald trump on the campaign trail. [video clip] trump: what of the broadcasters was saying is there anger? no, we love the way things are working. we love the deal he made with iran. he gave them $150 billion in we get nothing. we love all the deals.

the trade deals are wonderful. you lose $500 billion a year with china. wheelies $58 billion a year in terms of an balance. it's a total imbalance. we don't make good deals anymore. as a country we do not win any more. is there anger from your people? they are not angry people, but they want to see the country properly run. they want to see borders. they want to see good health care. they want to see things properly taken care of. host: your ideas to fix politics in washington and elsewhere. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. (202) 748-8001 four republicans. and all others, (202) 748-8002. send us a tweak. a couple here starting with bill. the two-yearwith term limit for congress and the senate." you cannot serve two in the house and then run for senate."

" it is easy. make government smaller with less power than it will not matter what those morons in d.c. do. nobody will care." "in the duopoly of the corporate dominated republican and republican parties -- democrat and republican parties." calls. -- back to calls. pa on the republican linet. caller: good morning and thank you for c-span. i really do appreciate the program. i am in agreement with overturning citizens united. i think the pac money and everything is really corrupting our politics. as far as donald trump, he will have to take money. he has already said he probably will because it will cost $1 billion.

run thends terrible to campaign if he gets the nomination. i would like to see him get the nomination because i like -- i would like to see him shake things up. we have checks and balances. there is not too much he can do. he scares me a little bit but i think the establishment needs to be shaken up. and also i'm in agreement with term limits. ofon't think for a period time you have served in congress you should be allowed to be a lobbyist. thingsre a lot of those but only so much time. thank you for letting me express my comments. host: some good ideas there. pat talked about money and politics. a recent opinion piece in the seattle times. big-money politics has damaged our economy. i will read it bit from the piece.

money politics has damaged our economy but americans are standing up for and winning reforms in state after state. voters and legislators have passed legislators -- legislation that would overturn citizens united and offer reasonable limits on big-money politics. 16 states and nearly 700 communities have called for an amendment to overturn the decision." that is from the seattle times. your ideas on fixing politics. bill and maryland. independent line. caller: good morning. i think one of the things that is hurting or creating the discourse between the two parties is the gerrymandering of all the districts. it makes it easy for them to say radical things on either side. and still be elected for the next term. the other thing that i think is hurting is the money everybody

has been talking about. the superdelegates. i think that has made it easier for the democratic party in the createdere it has also because of the rules being different on the republican side and on the democratic side, i feel like the superdelegates being added into hillary's numbers has made it easier for people to go for the winner as opposed to making it a more fair race between the two of them. on the republican side it is not like that. host: when is the primary in maryland? caller: april 25. it is a closed primary. i was in myself as a republican side. in -- are you in the congressional districts are chris van hollen? caller: yes.

it was actually gerrymandered many years ago. host: thank you for calling. the piece in the metro section of the washington post about the contentious nature of politics even within the party. they write into democrats battling for a rare open seat in maryland hit each other hard on friday in the first debate of the primary season with representative chris van hollen describing presented donna edwards is dishonest and ineffective, and edwards calling him an establishment figure it was out of touch with everyday voters. it was held in a local radio station in the nation's capital. they write the high-stakes for clear and the test exchanges between the lawmakers who share similarly -- similar liberal voting with little debate in terms of issues. they focused on effectiveness and background. here is morris in minnesota. good morning.

what are some of your ideas for fixing politics in washington and elsewhere? caller: good morning and thank you for c-span. mention that io think it goes down to respect. we have a house and the senate that doesn't respect the elected president. we have other people they know how to play the political game like they were mentioning earlier. look at president obama. eight years. he was subject to a record amount of filibuster. i heard that on a program a couple days ago on c-span. it is just frustrating how nobody respects the office that these elected officials are elected to. and allow them, even though they disagree with the policies, allow them to exercise their office and use their office for the betterment of the united

states citizens. we are all just americans. we might disagree with each other but we should at least respect each other enough to be able to entertain a different idea. host: you mentioned the respect issue. the approval rating of the president has gone up. obama's approval rating rises as election heats up. who recentlyma, has seen a rise in his approval rating, if you be benefiting from increased confidence in the economy and the intense focus on him on the campaign to succeed him rather. the shift comes as mr. obama steps further into the 2016 for a. a good healthy chances of a democrat winning the white house in november, but there are risks for the nominee in clinging to closely to his legacy. for the first time in three years mr. obama's approval rating rose above 50%. that is a significant shift from its low of 38% in the fall of 2014 and higher than the 47%

average for president at this point in their final year in office. to nashville. clarence, good morning on the republican line. caller: good morning c-span. appreciate the program. the concerns i have for this country and the division takes place within the two inner circles of both parties. thing of anyrtant of these elected officials once they become an incumbent their loyalty is to those within that very tight circle. and that is what is happening now within our own republican party. i will state right away i am a cruz supporter. sent him a few dollars along the way. i have already voted in our state. he came in second to trump. what is a real concern of mine now is the discussions being

held on who will wind up with the republican nomination. on your program i just watched john kasich speak about the --sibility of five people any one of five people and he hoped to be the one to one of the nomination. i think where are the other two coming from? i think the republican party is going to have to, instead of making the wrong decision this vet their potential nominees for for the next presidential election so you don't have 17 people starting out and destroying each other. god bless america and they do for c-span. host: what if the eventual nominee wanted being donald trump? would you support him? host: i will support him

reluctantly. i think he would be a better winge than the far left candidates on the democratic party. i think that would not be the best choice but it would be the better of the two. host: pendleton, oregon. randy up early. welcome. caller: good morning. i just want to say that i think washington is a mess. it needs to start making some cuts. sides.ou have got two cuts inant to make spending and visitor calling for more spending. the mandatory spending, social security and medicare and things like that, where do you begin to solve on the specific mandatory spending? have you begin to make cuts when

people are protecting themselves? caller: i am not saying it would be an easy pitch,m but cuts need to be made. host: thank you for joining us this morning. president obama was asked about about ate in washington week or so before the supreme court pick when the canadian prime minister visited the white house in a joint news conference. [video clip] president obama: i said that one of my regrets is the degree to polarization and the nasty tone of our politics is wanedrated rather than over the course of the last seven and a half years. i do all kinds of soul-searching in terms of are the things i can do better to make sure we are unifying the country. thato have to say

objectively it is fair to say republican political elites and many of the information outlets, social media, news outlets, talk radio, television stations have been base forhe republican the last seven years. do ison that everything i to be imposed. compromiseation or somehow is at the trial -- a betrayal. that absolutist positions on are politically advantageous.

there is a van and and -- them ared an us, and causing the problems you are experiencing. host: president obama. we are asking you to ideas for fixing politics in washington and elsewhere. this is ohio, democrats line. billy? are you there? let's go to don in california. good morning. republican line. caller: i am a donald trump supporter. one thing we can do to fix politics is to try to teach the left to quit being so violent and hateful because people who have dissenting opinions. and also to respect her constitutional rights. this rally they had utah, this hung trumpeaceful,

in effigy, be it with sticks, and they cheered when pieces fell off of it. -- they tried to invade by chanting "shut it down." the left has become very violent, hateful and anti-american. that needs to stop. host: i'm sorry to interrupt. go ahead. caller: the only other thing i would suggest is getting out these career politicians like ted cruz who just want to use the government as a way to cement their fame and fortune. get some outsiders in their that can actually affect change, that are not living up the status quo. host: he was talking about the utah donald trump rally. there is a report this morning in the salt lake city tribune,

protesters meet supporters in an intense show town outside utah rally. a picture of two of the protesters on either side. a quick look at this article from the salt lake city tribune. protesters carrying signs and chanting against arnold trump -- donald trump marched down the street. the two sides shouted at each other for about an hour outside the offending events center where trop held a rally on friday night. -- trump held a protest on friday night. two people allegedly tried to breach a barrier on the west side of the event center, but they did not get in. south bend, indiana. line.go to don, democrats caller: hi. i have been thinking about this and i think the problem is congress and the senate. here is my solution.

house if they the ever get to a point were they are not effective, their people that think they are not doing can calls, the country for a no vote -- a no-confidence vote for the senators and the congressman that are in office right now. if the vote comes out to be 60%, over 60% no-confidence, then the member ranat each against would replace him in the senate and in the congress. congress, the senate and the congress would have something over their heads to get things done. something to give them the incentive to get things

done. i think that would probably solve most of our problems. elections,y for the i think each party would have to put up the money. parliamentary a -- levy sq this -- let me ask you this. some say getting things done would mean cutting spending across-the-board. some say getting things done would be providing money for this program or this program. the two different ideas on what getting things done might be. what are your ideas? caller: i understand what you are saying. there comes a time where the united states, the people of united states did to the point where they just feel that there

is no type of compromise. they are not sitting down and talking to each other and trying to compromise and getting some type of bill out. anything out there was so the process of fixing the problems they are trying to fix. if the american people feel they are not doing what they should be doing, then we should go ahead and have his no-confidence vote so we can start chasing the amount until they get the idea that when they go to washington they have to sit down and compromise to get something done. host: interesting idea, donald. let's get the rhode island. independent line. caller: good morning. ok. into finals me that the republicans that he government want to make it smaller and the gospel according to -- small and

to drown it in a bathtub. these people want to be elected to a government they hate. that is tantamount to an atheist try to become the pope. i don't see any way out of this mess. the republicans have for the president from day one -- thwarted the president from day one. i don't think it will give hillary or bernie anything if either is fortunate enough to be elected president. if donald trump gets elected president, i would like to see him build a wall between the red states in the blue states. we will never, ever get along again. pedro, in this country we should have an amicable divorce between liberals and conservatives. i'm going to go a little further. rather than an amicable divorce

i would ask that we have the yokelectomy. but the yokels go there own way. host: professor from american university has written recently about the issue. here is what yet is a. [video clip] >> redistricting is a partisan phenomenon except in 11 states. for a state legislature as well as the house of representatives creates districts that are pretty safe with any margin. there are only 21 seats in the house right now that are estimated to be competitive at a 435. many state legislatures are dominated by one party. the are becoming polarized. media, notnot all c-span, but the media reinforces this by having people go to places where they agree with their own values and not being

challenged. the courts of the lower-level have become a bit polarized also. there is a polarization that goes on that creates the phenomenon of the left and the creates the phenomenon of the left and the right fighting each other with very few people in the middle. host: like all of our conversations here on "washington journal," you can find all of that on c-span.org. headline in the washington post about the presidents pick to take the vacancy left by the vacancy of justice scalia. mark kirk is the first republican senator to call for a vote on garland. a right that mark kirk became the first republican senator to call for an up or down vote, saying that his colleagues not to man up and cast a vote. we are calling for your ideas to fix politics in washington, democrats, call (202) 748-8000, republicans, call (202) 748-8001 independents, call

(202) 748-8002. a tweeter, @cspanwj, from jody, saying unlike fixing the capitol dome, that requires a lot of money, our politics need to do the opposite, get big money out. insanee says stop the political correctness. jail time for gop stealing from the taxpayer by refusing to do their sworn duties. democrats can do -- can go to, but deserve shorter sentences. this is john on the republican line. go ahead. caller: good morning. the first thing i think we need to do for we are going to fix politics is have a media that has some integrity. the media needs to start reporting in a way that they report the facts.

and get the partisan politics out of the media. then the voters can be informed, and we won't have insane and divisive comments like we heard the last couple of callers, but we have from rhode island. and am a goal divorce between red states and blue states. we can point our fingers all day long at the money, at washington, at the congress, the president until we the people start to act civilly, until we the people start to act informed , we are the ones that both these people in. and we keep voting harry reid, mitch mcconnell in, year after year. decade after decade. and then we all play the victim. oh, it's washington, it's washington, it's the money, it's the corporations, it's bernie, it's hillary, it's donald. when it is us, the people.

demanding reform and start voting with integrity and start understanding that the whole purpose of the political parties is to divide and conquer -- when we come together, they will come together. host: john, thank you for your call. you mentioned the media, certainly a big media first amendment story is the hulk hogan, gawker decision. hefty damages to hulk hogan. awarded $150 million in damages on friday by a florida jury in an invasion of privacy case against

host: mark is next in philadelphia, democrats line. your ideas on fixing politics, mark. caller: good morning. i think the person before me pretty much stole my thunder. i'm 65 years old. in a working-class area of west philly. when i was a kid, i remember election days. everybody came out and voted. parents who were naturalized citizens, the poorest people, the wealthiest people in our neighborhood, even though there weren't very many wealthy, everybody voted. now the way it is, the underclass, the lower middle classes, the working poor,

percentagewise, they don't come out and vote. the politicians are chosen by the 1% or's, we see that on the republican side with donald trump, the one presenters don't want him. 1%erse for centers -- vote them out. we have to get everyone in this process. host: you are calling on the democrats line. the 1% doesn't want donald trump, does that mean you have some intention of supporting him or could see yourself supporting him? -- ir: let me state this was a reagan democrat, and i cannot member the same things they were saying about ronald reagan, they are saying about trump. he's unelectable, carter will beat him, he's bad for the country. reagan hadronald said he was against social security. trump is one of their own. -er, he knows what the

deal is, he wants to shake the system up, get rid of the capital gains hedge fund guys. he knows where the bodies are buried for these 1%-ers. he's saying we want something different. host: if the election were held today, who would you vote for? caller: hillary clinton. host: mark, leverage your comments. roger on the independent line. your ideas on fixing politics. caller: i appreciate you taking my call. , a whole lot would have to change to fix anything. i'm not so sure it's broken. i have seen the left for the bash,0 years -- destroy, riot, call the right

bigots. with they did to bush. they called a drunk, a cocaine addict, they did that to his children and his parents. now, all of a sudden, the other side is doing it and you can't understand it. now it's all this hate and discord. but the worst thing is the president we have now picked and chooses the laws he wants to enforce. and now guess what, the other side is going to do that. you think when people buy all those guns weathers going to be a law, you think they're going to give them up? they're not going to be attention to the laws. because now you don't have to. that's when to be his legacy, making it where the rule of law no longer matters. thank you. host: carl in erie, pennsylvania. caller: good morning, bill. to the illegal alien problem is in each state, require that they have to

register, and how many people there aren't everything. , ifif they don't register they ever get picked up, they are automatically deported. whether they are criminal or not. we have to know how many people are in this country. we have no idea now. i worked in chicago one time, the illegals did all the work that i had to get done. that too they sent out. that -- that is who they sent out. i had no power over that. it's been 30 years to fix the immigration problem. now, trump wants to do something and everyone is against him, this and that. it's just ridiculous. republicans and democrats. they had a chance. obama had two years with the democratic and a republican administration. and he did nothing to work it out. the first 45ted

minutes looking at the beginning of the series in the "washington post," by david moran's and robert samuels called looking for america. a nation divided is today's installed -- installments. they write that for every disgruntled person out there who felt undone by the system and threatened by the way the country was changing -- host: all of that series at washington post.com. five more minutes of your phone calls on ideas to fix politics in washington, democrats, call (202) 748-8000, republicans,

call (202) 748-8001. independents, call (202) 748-8002. saturday, march 19, 2016. 37 years ago, this network began coverage of the first live televised feed from the u.s. house of representatives. we brought you live gavel-to-gavel coverage ever since. here is some of what that first broadcast look like 37 years ago. [video clip] on this a store day, the house of are presented as opens its proceedings for the first time to televised coverage. i would to congratulate you and your courage for making this possible, and the committee who worked so hard in the leadership of congressman charles role to make this a reality. television will change this institution, mr. speaker, just as it has changed the executive branch. but the good will far outweigh the bad. from this day forward, every member of this body must ask himself or herself how many

americans are listening to the debates which are made? when the house becomes comfortable with the changes brought by television coverage, the news media will be allowed to bring their own cameras into this chamber. in the meantime, there is no censorship. every word is available for broadcast coverage. and journalists will be able to use and edit as they see fit. the solution for the lack of confidence in government, mr. speaker, is more open government at all levels. host: the comments on the floor of the house of representatives 37 years ago on this day by al gore, then congressman from tennessee, and later, obviously, vice president. more at c-span.org, you can find our history and links to lots more video as well. in that speech, al gore talking about media coverage of congress. here are some of bernie sander'' comments in terms of media coverage of the campaign.

us, this is divide from "the hill," they make -- the read about comments bernie sanders made a campaign stop in idaho falls. with the media try to do is to mine is up and suggest this country is hopelessly divided and everybody hates everybody. sometimes we forget nobody agrees with anybody else 100% of the time. i think sometimes the divisions are not quite a steep as some would make out. a couple more calls. first of his mark in orlando, florida. democrats line. go ahead. , good morning. i don't know that there is a fix to the political situation in this country. i say that because i remember when carter elected. cameroblems that he faced from the democrats in congress are at they refused to approve his choice i think for secretary of state, rejected him.

people who have entrenched power just don't want to give it up. comment, he said if you'd been alive at the crustacean of christ, he would have been a greek intellectual saying look at the rabble, another execution. position eyes and individual feel that the hopes of the lease of the common manner so far removed from those of the powers that be who are controlled by money, because they are forced to get money continuously to campaign. and the votes are manipulated. by the media. i'm not one to get into the left, right argument about the media. but the media does control the arguments in many ways. when you are one of the chief spokesman for politics on a

major old-time broadcasting company says it's not my job to say when a politician is lying to my face. that was chuck todd who said is not my job to say some guys is lying to me. to call them out on it. where does that leave the common viewer? host: mark, we appreciate your comments. terry is on our independent line. term limits on a flat tax. we need term limits because of gerrymandering, it would incumbent after incumbent after incumbent. mitch mcconnell, harry reid, i don't care who you talk about. they have been there too long. 12 years in the senate, 12 years in the house, if you are good enough for the senate after 12 years, you can for 12 years in the house. host: a quick look at the headlines before we wrap up the politics.

belgians arrest a fugitive subject in paris attacks. that's the front page of "the new york times," they write he um, thed back to belgi day after the attacks. his fingerprints were found into apartments, but they kept alluding the police dragnet, and respect religion he might've escaped to syria. john on republican line, in maryland. your ideas on fixing politics. caller: i think we have to live according to the constitution. we just lost a strict construction was, and originalist in antonin scalia a. the leader in the senate, mitch mcconnell said you're going to wait until the next administration, there are people that are worried that maybe we ought to take a deal that we are being offered because if hillary wins it, she's quite a kick this

guy or somebody even more to the left, so go for it. but i think that the president, i believe, in his weekly address said that he made his appointment according to the constitution, he fulfilled his responsibility, now he wants the senate to fulfill theirs. the only problem with that is if the shoe were on the other foot, they wouldn't even think about appointing somebody in a lame-duck session of the presidency. i think that the president is being hypocritical. he chooses to rely on the constitution at times, and a lot of things that he is done, especially in immigration violates the constitution. hillary, they've been investigating her for months and months. the, well-known lawyer that worked at the

justice department said in 60 days, and this is over 60 days, believe, that there will be a revolt of the justice department if there wasn't a grand jury on her. host: thanks for the comments. he was on our program yesterday, the former federal prosecutor. you can find that at c-span.org. we continue on "washington journal," our guest is david shepardson, joining us to talk about the latest in the flat water crisis, including the hearings on capitol hill. later on, the potential of a contested republican convention is all the buzz in washington and around the country. , who covers politics for "national journal," will be here to walk us through the difference between a contested and brokered convention. the first up here on "washington journal," we are exploring the history and literary life of montgomery, alabama as our

cities tour continues. we will be featuring all of our monetary literary programming coming fluting energy was civil rights attorney and author of the bus ride to justice, freddie gray, about the role he played in the mcgovern bus boycott. one day on march 2, 1955, 9 months before mrs. rosa parks did what she did, cluttered carbon was coming from school. she had to change buses downtown. when she got off the bus where more white people than usual got on the bus. she was not seated in one of the 10 seats, but when they filled all the white seats up, the bus driver asked her, she was sitting in the first section, the first seeds -- seats.

shesked her to get up, and said she paid her money, she wasn't sitting in the white section, and she would get up. as a result of that, she was arrested. her parents called mr. and, -- mr. nixon, her parents called me, and i represented her in the spring of 1955. that was my first civil rights case. >> book tv is in prime time on c-span2, starting monday night at 8:30 eastern. each night will feature a seated -- a series of programs ranging on topics from politics and education to medical care and national security. plus encore presentation from recent festivals. tune into book tv in prime time, all next week on c-span2. go to book tv.org for the complete schedule.

host: david shepardson used to be the bureau chief for the detroit news, now with reuters, here to cover michigan story. the flood water crisis. a couple of hearings this week in the house oversight committee , including the committee hearing from the epa administrator gina mccarthy and the governor of messenger -- of michigan, rick snyder. onontentious hearing thursday, what was learned out of that hearing in particular? guest: there wasn't a lot of new ground broken, except for the fact that both parties when after the admin straighter and the governors try to assess blame for the crisis. i do get really comes down to your point of view, the governor early on said the state failed, they fired several individuals and others were put on leave. the epa administrator said this the epachigan problem, in retrospect could have done a

better job of pushing the state or going public with its concerns earlier. the ministry was very aggressive in saying they did not cause this problem. it was a michigan problem. host: if the house oversight committee with oversight over the environmental protection agency. coming underator fire certainly from republicans and some democrats as well. this is the third in a series of the oversight committee has held on flint, in particular. what are they hoping to do with all this information? what is the next step beyond this hearing? guest: there are two challenges. the epa is in the process of writing the lead and copper rule , which governs the nation's water systems and ensuring that led this not leach out of older pipes into water systems. secondly, congress is considering a $220 million funding bill to help flint and other cities with lead issues -- that bill is currently --

there's a hold on it from senator mike leigh in the senate which has prevented it from moving forward, although it has bipartisan support. the issue there is over the funding mechanism. host: he has a whole because of the funding mechanism. on the rules for lead and copper, it was a part of the hearing where the chairman, jason chaffetz, asked the epa rules.trator about those she talked about the rules being written now and developed in 2017, not ready for 2018. why wouldn't these rules of been changed sooner than that? guest: the last time this rule is actually modified was 2007 in the previous of administration. this is a government problem in general, that it takes very long to develop new regulations. and then to get them approved by own be and get them out the door. even though congress told the epa to have the rule revised, they still have not completed it. it is certainly one of hundreds and hundreds of rules pending

throughout the government that need to be revised. host: when did congress tell them the needed to have them rules revised? guest: over six years. host: estimated in law. -- that is mandated in law. democrats, call (202) 748-8000, republicans, call (202) 748-8001 , independents, call (202) 748-8002. we have set aside a line for michigan residents, (202) 748-8003. we look forward to your calls and comments from david who covers a lot of michigan news being the bureau chief for the detroit news. what is happening now in flint in terms of fixing their water system? you talk about the money that congress has, what about the state? guest: the city switched back their water supply to the detroit river. addingue is, it started corrosion control to the water again. the issue is it will take a

while for this protective layer to develop on the pipes to make the water safe for drinking. the waters currently not safe for drinking. host: how long of a time? guest: the state has not put a time. the lead levels are declining, but they've not specified a date. there are many other issues to deal with, with children who have been tested with high lead the governor has asked the state for another $165 ,illion to address lead pipes early childhood nutrition, and other issues. host: let me play the comments of governor snyder, who i understand came to the hearing, he didn't -- he volunteered to come to this. here's what he had to say in terms of his role in the crisis. >> let me be blunt. this was a failure of government at all levels. local, state, and federal officials. we all fail to families of flint. this isn't about partisanship or

policies. i'm not going to point fingers or blame. there's plenty of that to spare. neither of that will help the people of flint. not a day or night goes by that this tragedy doesn't weigh on my mind. the questions i should have asked you the answers i should have demanded. how i could have prevented this. committed toam so delivering permanent, long-term solutions and clean, safe drinking water that every michigan citizen deserves. it washe governor saying a failure at all levels, at what level is a going to get fixed, whose going to pick up the brunt of the cost and the oversight on this? guest: those issues, are yet to be determined. number one, the state is in the process of considering whether to approve more money. you also have many lawsuits filed against the state over the handling of this issue.

there's a question if they will be on the hook for additional money. citing both the uncertainty about flint as well as the michigan public schools lowered the states outlook for its credit rating. and then there are all the investigations between the justice department, the inspector general from the epa, the state. getting to the bottom of who will foot the bills, and whether there will be fines is still a big issue. -- davidid shepherd shepardson with us today. we go to the democrats line. good morning. caller: i have a comment. i think that the governor is not doing nearly enough. you should have asked the mayor what do you need? i have your back, anything you need, i'll be there.

as far as the lead pipes, they should already be putting in new pipes. i don't understand how we can sit there and say he's doing what he can and people are still paying for and drinking or having to drink bottled water and they can use the water they are paying for. i don't understand any of that from the outside looking in. why is he saying no one gets a just call someone and tell them to start working. i don't understand the governor at all. they shouldn't have to pay. guest: the governor has asked the state legislature for more money to help give flint residents credits for their water bill. he agrees they should not be paying for water when it was lead contaminated. that also raises the point that flint has had among the highest water rates in the country, in part because of a normally -- an

abnormally high number of water main breaks, a lot of wasted water. his point out the fact that the onlyby no means city was lead problems. there are 150 thousand water systems, the epa by its own estimate has suggested water systems will need like $600 billion of infrastructure improvements over the next 20 years. host: you wrote after the first oversight hearing, the one earlier this week, your piece said that the epa chief warned in september that flint water crisis could get big. you were talking about some e-mails that came out from the epa. the admin straighter of the environmental protection agency warned in september the water crisis in flint quote could get the epa month before issued an emergency order requiring the state to take immediate steps to protect residents. those e-mails released on wednesday. september 26 to staff she wrote at the water issue is getting quote really concerning and asked for a meeting to be scheduled to determine where we are now, when needs to be done by whom, the situation has the

opportunity to get very big, quickly. at thursday's hearing, she was criticized by not taking action sooner. why didn't she? guest: the epa says in retrospect, they were misled and did not get all the information from the state of michigan. what clearly is shown in these e-mails is that the epa was reluctant and potentially differential to michigan in terms of more directly criticizing them. their other e-mails that show that epa officials said let's focus on the future and fixing the issues rather than assessing blame. issues of of those the epa inspector general is going to decide. was it simply a matter of the fornot moving fast enough, not properly sounding the whistle when there were epa officials that were internally raising red flags. that is there any sense there's a hesitancy in general about jumping in on what should be a state issue, given that the

administration has been criticized for executive actions and other things? guest: i think that's exactly right. it's one thing the democrats really seized on. republicans in congress have been very quick to attack epa overreach and say this is an agency out of control, looking to regulate puddles on the street. where is now, the democrats say republicans are saying how come the epa is not being more aggressive in retrospect. the agency is trying to thread a tough line, they are constantly under criticism from republicans. host: the line for michigan residents is (202) 748-8003. michigan.uthold, raymond was a democrat there, welcome. caller: i would like to say something about the governor. manager -- it has enacted the emergency manager

[indiscernible] flint,e cities, detroit, and ben harper. what about this emergency manager? [indiscernible] apart,ey took detroit the enacted an emergency manager, because of money. now? is he right he's in jail. governor should be in a cell right next to him, because people lost their lives.

host: raymond, we will let you go there. we will focus on his comment about emergency managers. why was there emergency managers running flint, and what role that person have in the switchover of the water system? guest: that was the subject of much of the second hearing, this week. went lost more than 100,000 people, tens of thousands of jobs. the very economically distressed city. so the state stepped in and 2011 and appointed the forced -- the first four emergency manner -- managers. flint river was an interim source until the new source could be completed. the issue was that the prior city manager, the emergency manner -- manager made the initial decision. and mr. earley, who testified this week said he didn't feel he had sufficient information to overrule that earlier decision.

inre's a lot of anger michigan over this, because voters exley went to the kohl's at overturned it and then the state legislature and governor snyder approved a slightly different version the went into effect shortly after that. host: the caller said there was detroit and ben harper. guest: detroit's is now gone and flint's back under control of the mayor. we've had other segments on this issue and flints, many people from plaintiff called and said everybody knew the water in the river was bad. why didn't that raise red flags earlier? is thethe irony here water in flint, the flint river was actually not bad. it was no lead in it. but it was too corrosive. it had too much chlorine. host: the water itself was corrosive. guest: the problem was, the didn't add this corrosion agent, so these old lead pipes, the city didn't even know where they

were by and large, rather than the front river -- the flint river being bad. host: florida, republican caller. good point. out a problemoint that's true throughout many agencies of the government, and that is these laws were all put in place to address problems that never in the law is when they get to the edge of the cliff, nobody says stop trade don't go over the cliff. in fact, your first caller suggested what we need to do is give these people even more authority and more regulation. it's just insane. you also pointed out the problem regulatorse of these get so gun shy but they are unwilling to stick their neck out. clearly, maybeia

it's even their lack of economic and business backgrounds, could do more to point out these issues to the public as an , the government isn't in the solution. it's a major problem. you are in a key spot to point out and educate the public. i think you are doing a poor job. chris, we will let david shepardson respond. guest: in terms of regulators, governor snyder in december had an internal water task force the released a report that said -- that blamed much of the problem on the state, and that the state oneaucrats were too focused technical compliance and focused more on trying to dismiss and set aside the concerns by residents. as early as february, a flint resident came forward with these tests that showed high levels of lead in drinking water. how can weocused

ensure, we think we are in compliance with the law, rather than focusing on the bigger issue -- is the water safety drink? -- safe to drink? can we show under this somewhat byzantine 25-year-old rule, the we are in compliance. host: the headline on "usa today," saying high lead levels found in 2000 water systems across the usa. if you administer june mccarthy talked a little bit about this in terms of the water systems for low income communities. i wanted to play what she had to say and hear your response. [video clip] the contours of the situation are unique, but the underlying circumstances that allowed it to happen are really not. as a country, we have a systemic problem of under investing environment will justice communities, and make no mistake about it, this is an environmental justice community. not only are these underserved populations more vulnerable to exclusion, but they

often lack the tools, resources, the voice to do something about it. that is what stacks the deck against the city like flint. that's what creates an environment where a crisis like this can happen. areas across our country, water of the structure .s aging and antiquated several communities are severely underfunded. particularly, low income communities. which may have the most difficulty securing funds through rate increases or municipal bonds. this threatens the citizens access to safe drinking water, and we need to start having a serious conversation with congress and others about how we advance the technology is an investments necessary to keep delivering clean water to american families. host: part of gina mccarthy's statement, thursday. guest: she is absolutely right.

this is a massive problem across the country. this week it was about newark and testing kits for lead they re. ,here are 150,000 water systems this is a very significant problem. with secretary hillary clinton made this point earlier, what if this it happened in bloomfield hills, a wealthy community? given that a wealthier, predominantly white community, as the minister says, have a larger voice to the ability to get this message out, and our communities or others are quicker to set aside the concerns of a poor city like flint. host: environment will justice community, what does that mean? -- environmental justice committee, what does that mean? guest: a series like flood that suffers a series of environmental issues like contented groundwater or

contamination from industrial facilities, and then again, because of a lack of funding, these communities are not able to address these environmental concerns. host: here's dubuque, iowa, good morning to dan on the independent line. thisr: i believe a lot of has to do with privatization, you look at your waterways, your airways and we are speaking on right now, schools, medicine, everything is going to the people with the most money. and their clients, bottom line. people like the epa can be bought out, the fda, the fcc, everything is up for sale. is basically, this country being sold out to the rich. there's not a whole lot anybody can do about it, unless they all

band together. thank you. guest: i don't think privatization necessarily was the factor here. certainly if the hearings, there was a big issue raised the governor snyder, successful businessman, have come into office, and he wanted to use business style practices to run state government. it was a very strong exchange from the ranking democrat, commerce and cummings from maryland to said if the ceo had been in charge with us what happened, he would have been fired immediately. there is some issues. there's been some commentary back in michigan that -- was the governor to quick to read spreadsheets? to look at this as a business issue instead of more focused on the human aspect earlier. failure -- was that a failure of his aides to bring this to him? he would say that.

at the same time of this water shift, there was a spike in legionnaires disease cases. attempts death was reported. guest: because of the water system. host: we only know there was a correlation. there's a time from the correlates to the water system, but there's no confirmation that the water system was the cause. in fact, the problem may be that was on the testing done to determine that. host: let's go to the line for michigan residents. the line is (202) 748-8003. hello to denise. caller: good morning. darrellnt is that early, the em that was put in there early, he went to detroit public schools. he had a $40,000 raise when went to detroit public schools. he just left there, it was in great shape. there's rats and mold and everything else. this governor believes in privatizing everything.

,e privatize the va hospital the hospital in grand rapids, which these people have -- is totally failed. he is privatized in michigan, and it's just going downhill. the residents have voted over and over again no, and the legislature, which is all republican, come back and change it and put million dollars things on it that we can't even bring back up to a vote. it's terrible here. i just think the residents don't have a voice, no one is listening. thank you. guest: the caller mexican point, the state legislature -- makes a good point. the state legislature has fought to disallow citizens to reject a law with appropriations. if there's some to it, voters can do it. the stated reason that they didn't want the voters to be

able to overturn the budget amendments, the state wouldn't be able to operate. but increasing years, the state legislature has used that specific tool to prevent voters from being able to weigh in on very controversial issues. guest: ural old paper, "the detroit news. " you talked about developing potential evidence for lawsuits against the state and the governor. let's go back to the regulatory, you cover regulatory issues for reuters. this go back to the lead and copper rules. is it likely that the rewriting of those will be expedited in the wake of these hearings of the flint crisis? guest: the ap administered or said this was a priority to get that done, although she has not specified a specific timetable. it's marginal presidential election year. as the administration starts to wind down, it's would be very difficult to get new regulations out the door.

clearly either this of menstruation or the next at administration is going to have to address at the minimum making it easier for cities and states to understand. the minister just sent a letter to all 50 governors all the top environment officials in the states to ensure they are in compliance, that they understand the rules. the e-mails show that at times, both the state and epa officials had differing interpretations of this rule, which really gets to the idea that maybe this rule should be easier for everybody to understand. host: you spend years covering the auto industry for "the detroit news," are you from michigan? guest: i'm from bay city, two towns away from flint. host: with a affected by the water system change? guest: bay city was not, it was just the city of flint. i spent a lot of time in flint growing up. host: oregon on the democrat line. caller: good morning.

this problem in flint, i have been a journeyman plumber for decades. recently retired. have a degree in mechanical siphons -- mechanical science. his is an insulation standard that went on in the 1940's and 50's. it's in all 50 states, in every municipality that was in that timeframe. when the contractors or municipalities would lay a water main in that timeframe, usually made out of double iron. at that point in time, they put a corporation stop off the top of a water main, a water main being at least six inches. the flexible pipe coming from the top of the main to the back of the city meter is what the city people read for your water bill. time, withnt in flexible lead pipe. it was the only flexible material made. now, responsible municipalities over time, especially after the

lead paint thing in the 1960's, responsible municipalities were taking the lead service lines out of the system and replacing it with type k copper. that is a mechanical joints, no solder involved. i find all of this very puzzling that this has been going on and on and on, the mayor, the governor in michigan, and his emergency managers had no idea of what the installation standards were at that point in time. in this day and age, if you are laying a water main, most likely it's going to be made out of a plastic material. host: we appreciate your expertise. guest: that was a great call in, raising the fact that this is a huge issue, and that this was the standard, for many years. not only are there hundreds of

thousands, if not more, or millions, i think there were 6 million lead service lines is the best estimate i've seen, still remaining in the country nationwide. it will take billions of dollars to replace these great we don't even know where they all are. referenced, lead paint, which is in many cases responsible for more lead poisoning then led in the water. issue put it earlier, the was the anticorrosive material they failed to put in the water, correct? many people have let in their lines with no letting their water because they have the anticorrosive agent. those lines should be replaced even if the corrosion engine is working properly. host: bobby says why can your state afford millions for governor's legal defense, while unable to fix the water system? still whiningre about their own negligence in

maintaining the water system. where did the bulk of led corrosion occur? is the local government responsible for corrosion that occurs on private property? host: the corrosion is high because of the lead in the pipes from the street to the home. in terms of the governor's findings, the state has approved $1.2 million for his legal defense issues. this is gun very serious. and theice department state attorney general outside investigator are investigating. host: the long beach, california and sherry on the republican line. hello? long beach, california. caller: it talking about lead pipes. this is why don't get. if they know this, and they probably knew it a long time ago, and they can't put the -- the waterlping

is contaminated everywhere. they had an oil spill recently in san pedro, and i think it's just a moneymaking racket. even the plumbers that know this. even they get sick. why can they give other countries money, in the democratic party, and they can't help the united states? it doesn't make sense. slowlyuntry is slowly, going to pieces. and it's people like you that are trying to pull it together, which is good. which is very, very good. they're innocent people dying because of this. startek cut you off, thanks for your call. guest: the caller raises some good points about construction needs and the company very -- in the country. about $600 billion to upgrade and water systems are needed. the country, be at the highways, the airports, the rail systems

-- face massive, massive needs. on the shores of the delaware river, we go to new castle, delaware on the republican line. it is jim, good morning. caller: hey, bill. i think the whole problem is the fact that the whole government has gotten so big, they are into so many things, that they have forgotten the basic needs and the basic reason for government. water has been a basic issue for thousands of years. moneyre spending so much on something different things that what comes to providing the most basic of services, they just don't even think about it and over by the money for it. pot heretle, we had to before they left in all these other factors are gone. but they monitor the water here on a daily basis. and the people who work in water, i have a good friend who was in charge of the whole

county for infrastructure for the water. , and thisey speak up could never have happened here in delaware, at least. somebody would have blown the flag on a daily basis if the water was contaminated. we've had situations here where there's some measurement that is slightly above the legal limit or even close to it, they change the water supply to what they know is a pure source. i just don't understand how these people just don't get the fact that water is more important than any kind of studies about the sex life of frogs or whatever. this kind of stuff i think is because the government has become so expansive and into so many things that there is no real priorities for the basic needs of what they are supposed to do. until we get back to that, this is going to happen all over the place. flint has been a one-party town for how long?

when you have one party, they have to do anything. i just keep making the promises and not doing anything. host: good call, gemma. they are downstream from dupont. flint was the site of general motors. guest: he touched on a good point that a lot of republicans have been making. the epa has expanded too much. it's focused on too many extraneous issues and should be focused on these core issues. that's how they defend the argument that they have been critical of the epa overreach, but they would say this is a core function they should be focused on. host: a michigan caller, sally is in saint joe county in michigan. welcome. shepherdson,, mr. i have heard that lansing corrected its pipes, lansing, michigan, corrected its pipes with a new flexible pipe that they ran through house to house.

sure that our governor must have been aware of that. it was inexpensive of the time, and it was never brought up the hearings. i was appalled at that hearing. based onso obviously political parties. host: i'm really go there, we're going to an actual flint caller here from debbie in flint, michigan. good morning. go ahead. caller: good morning, thanks for taking my call. what it wanted to point out was in august of 2015, i can remember the judge's name, but he raised on stove -- a bunch of money. that theyhe amount waved back on our bills. i think the reason they did that is because now they think they're going to get -- flint's had a long history of putting their hand out to everybody. and a long history of administrators, mayors, they

really don't care about the city of flint. nobody has commented about the value of our homes. we will never sell these homes. but still, wells fargo wants their mortgage payments every month, and the water company wants their $87. host: let me ask you about your water bill. you are still being charged for water? or just the sewage portion of your bill? camer: no, this month they through with just the sewer, but they added that back water bill back on. it's just a card game. they are just shuffling the cards around. if you we are, we can't shower, the water breaks you out. probably my neighborhood isn't as bad as some neighborhoods in flint. but i think it needs to be said that the flint river used to be a beautiful river. 50 years ago, we used to swim in the river all the time. host: i will let you go, denny.

we will hear from david shepardson. guest: you raise a lot of good points. certainly the water bill issues are a big issue. that's one of the reasons the state -- the governors asking the state for more money to help defray those water bill cost. , at one pointtime in the late 70's, about 80,000 people worked for gm in the flint area. today it's around 5000. if the city that has lost about half its population. it has really struggled financially, it has not gotten as much detention is to try, but flint has suffered many of the same problems that detroit has come in part because of the massive loss of manufacturing jobs from the midwest over the last 10 or 15 years. host: david shepardson covers revelatory issues for reuters, covered the hearings this week in the house oversight committee. it is a different take on the tone of the hearing or what came out of the hearing.

the front page of "the washington post," said the epa chief agency was too slow to help flint. i will pull that off and give the reporting of the "new york times," michigan governor tells congress he was misled by flood water. one of the highlights of the hearing on thursday was the calls on both sides for resignations. [video clip] here's just a sample. >> if you want to do the courageous thing, you two should resign. no one is going to believe the you have the opportunity, you have the authority, you have the backing of the federal government, and you did not act when you had the chance. if you are going to do the courageous thing, you two should step down. host: we will re-air that sunday at 1:50 eastern here on c-span and at c-span.org. we lost count of how many times members asked able to resign. safe to say neither

the governor nor the administered are going to be resigning. it speaks to a lot of anger on both sides. critic is a both parties are looking to use the governor or the ministry was a scapegoat. asst: the democrats see this an example of republicans limited government, unwillingness to spend money on infrastructure, republican see this as an example of epa incompetence. both sort of see what they want to see in this crisis. guest: do we expect this will be the last public hearing on the issue for house oversight? there's a waiting for more documents. like anything else, congress tends to move on, they get tired of an issue. it's pretty significant that they had three hearings on this issue. theess it will depend on senate and the house passing the funding bill that this congress makes to address the issue. host: it's being held by mike lee in utah, it's not been

before the house yet. here's your rights, michigan, and linda, go ahead. caller: i had a question for mr. shepherdson. years before this current administration, michigan was putting much in recession and a lot of the time that the rest of the country was enjoying a little bit more growth. when mr. schneider came into camee -- when mr. snyder into office, one of the first things he did was he cut revenue sharing to a lot of cities that really counted on that revenue because, as you mentioned earlier, they were suffering from industry-leading. i wondered if you could address how that cut to cities effected it and may have even caused flint to sink even further into trouble. i will wait for your answer. guest: i know that the cuts in

state revenue sharing was a big issue of concern among cities, a lot of consternation in the legislature. the really come as you point out, starting in 2000, michigan entered a once a recession. lost half oflaw -- the manufacturing jobs. although it has rebounded somewhat, i think the state added back about 150,000 jobs since the low, it is still down more than 300,000 factory jobs. these were good paying jobs. it's one of the reasons why a lot of people in michigan, and you know, president obama stand -- came to the state to talk with us issue. there were people who had good jobs cannot find those good paying jobs, special those are don't have a lot of skills or maybe only have a high school diploma. host: one more michigan color, in wayne county, h judy. good morning.

-- it is judy, good morning. caller: i have been a wayne county resident all my life, democrat. >> and i am 59 years old. i want to know what the flint mayor has to do it this changing from wayne county water to flint water, and wayne county residents did not pay their water bills, but i always pays mine. i have a blue-collar worker and i don't make any money. why do you think they can get away with not paying their bill, and that is why they switched. that is what i believe. did thenty residents same thing. i live in redford, michigan. detroitl right, so the watterson cap -- water system kept expanding all the way out into flint. let's not give them as they give a discount, so they said we would take the ball and go home. we will get our water from lake

huron from a new pipeline. it was not ready. they used the flint river on an interim basis. host: what is next in terms of other issues you are looking at? david: there are a bunch of issues on the sec side, rulemakings there, and the national highway safety transportation administration has safety rules, and of course the lead and copper rule. host: and our followers can fall you at david shepardson. washington journal continues. we take a look at the potential for a contested or a brokered convention, the difference between the two. that is all the difference in the political world. we'll be joined by adam wollner, national journal political correspondent. in the me have jeffrey mann costs who will talk about vladimir putin's decision about

syria. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] book tv has 48 hours of nonfiction books and authors every weekend. here are some programs to watch for. tonight at 8:15 eastern, a book with city university of new york author douglas rushkoff, author of "throwing rocks at the google bus." he says we can grow businesses to benefit employees and employers. then at 10:00 the end, after , whichith a john explores the presidential power to the administration -- during

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feature programs that tell the american story. athave lectures in history 8:00 eastern. david o'connell discusses presidential legacies and the factors that contribute to a successful presidential term. then at 10:00 p.m. on "reel america," two months prior to his death, president kennedy trundled across the united states to promote conservation of national resources for future generations. sunday morning on 10:00 on road to the re-house -- white house rewind, former vice president walter mondale, senator gary , george mcgovern, and reverend jesse jackson. for the complete weekend is that -- complete weekend to c-span.org. announcer: washington journal continues. host: here to talk presidential politics is adam wollner, and in

particular the potential for a convention that would be either brokered or contested, particularly focusing on the republican side. adam wollner, why are these terms entering the political dialogue now? people areeason talking about the possibility is because there has been a good chance that no candidate will come into the republican convention in july in cleveland with the majority of delegates for the nomination. donald trump is only the only candidate who has a viable mathematical path to get there. ,ed cruz would need to win 80% john kasich, it is mathematically impossible. he can't even win the nomination. donald trump is really the only candidate who has an opportunity to reach this magic number, but he very does not and no candidate enters the convention without that magic number, 1237,

it becomes contested. host: all the coverage of conventions has been largely a coronation ceremony. help us define the terms. your talking about a contention -- contested convention, people talk about brokered. adam: there is a slight difference but they generally mean the same thing. if no candidate has majority of , it is open because no candidate has clinched the nomination. as you mentioned, it is kind of a foregone conclusion. we have had this roll call vote where of delegates was a really are for. in the past we knew mitt romney had the delegates he needed. in 2008 john mccain had the delegates he needed. this time, none of them will have the necessary delegates, and after the first round of balloting, if no candidate can 1237 delegates, we move on

to the second round of balloting, and then it becomes brokered. of the delegates become on downs and they don't have to support the candidate they came in bounded to. host: donald trump leading with some 673 in terms of delegates, and another round of primaries coming up tuesday, but not big delegate numbers. arizona we have utah and idaho. adam: on the democratic side. host: on the republican side, arizona and utah. it is the timeline for donald trump getting that number? we are going to have issues in cleveland. adam: we may not know until the very last day of the primary calendar, june 7, when there are 300 at stake with big states like california. there aren't a lot of big delegate-rich states left on the calendar. every week we have a handful of dates here and there. important because

donald trump is about on track where he needs to be. he is about 97% where he needs to be. every state, no matter how big or small, every delegate is going to matter in the end. we may not know until june 7 the outcome whether there is 300 delegates at stake, whether donald trump clinches the nomination, or if we going to have open convention. host: we are going to open the phone lines. 202-748, 2000 for republicans, 202-748, 2001 for republicans. 202-748, 2002 for independence. doctor withdrawn candidates delegates, marco rubio had 169

delegates, one for mike huckabee, four for jeb bush, ben carson had eight. they spread out, the delegates are somewhat bound to the candidate, 39. some i candidate can choose to release the delegate, in the case of marco rubio 42. 98 become free agents. is there any chance these numbers, particular the marco rubio delegates, can help ted cruz? adam: absolutely. this will be important to watch, these unbound delegates were not pledged. going in a thing we have a contested convention, almost all of them will be bound to a candidate on the first ballot more than 90%. that is still a sizable chunk that is not bound. and donald trump who is only 200 or so short, the delegates will be really crucial who supported a different candidate and now dropped out. they are free to support with a watch. i handful of states like hold ao, they did not

preference poll, so they are elected delegates directly. those are unbound. they will play a huge role in this. host: in terms of the next primary, are they preparing for the potential -- what are they doing to prepare for the potential of a contested convention? adam: the important thing to keep in mind, even though donald trump, john kasich, and ted cruz have earned a lot of delegates, we do not acting of who they are. that process will go under when states have their conventions in may and june. most candidates don't have a lot of say over who the delegates are. in most cases it is state parties that control the process. campaigns that be really well organized. many to go to each convention and make sure they have their people running for the delegate slots, they stay with them in the convention in cleveland. the first caller in florida, independent line. , i willgood morning

make a brief statement of my analysis, and i would like to hear with the gentleman has to say. i do like any of this matters. what i think is happening is you have hillary on one side with her left-wing corporatist backers, powerbrokers. on the right side you have right-wing powered brokers, and you have tom cruise. ruz. ump c i think plan b was always marco rubio, but clancy is always hillary clinton. we can live with that. if i put in a briar type, they get corporate wishes. the right-wing wing people don't get the social issues. hillary gets it, she puts in another ginsburg when she goes. in the right-wing elite go and look at the voters, the trump and cruz and say listen to us. it is all a big scam when they

put the knife in a brokered convention or another candidate. the only need to shift a 5% of vote. i appreciate your time. thank you very much. host: real distrust of the process. adam: this is going to be a huge issue for the republicans. even if donald trump enters the convention and isn't the nominee, he will have more nominee -- more delegates than anyone else. and someone else like donald trump can look like they basically stole this nomination from him. donald trump there would say there was protests if it doesn't happen. you've got to be careful with this, even if donald trump comes into the convention without having clinched the nomination, they does the would it mean for his supporters if he doesn't win the nomination. they could revolt and look to a third-party, and that would divide them. host: let's go to the republican line in san diego. roberto.

caller: as a lifelong republican , although i voted for whoever i thought would do the best job, etc., donald trump brought on his own problems. i have been offended by them and i'm a white 79-year-old woman. i never speak about people in the way he has spoken. that there is a bit of truth to a lot of things he says. andkipping everybody up making all hispanic drug dealers and rapists and stuff like that, he has brought on his own grief within the party. he has brought that on himself. he can't blame anyone else. i don't know if it is worth it to throw our values as a country away just to get elected for anybody, if it is mr. obama and the administration, or mr. trump running for president. i do think he will surround

himself with people who are intelligent and informed and who will give him good advice, and i do think they will listen, which i don't think we have to listen to this at ministration today. host: in reaction to her comment. adam: you talked about some of the more establishment aligned republicans who are being forced to choose between donald trump or ted cruz. someone actually prove donald trump because they could at least work with them, he is malleable, can be flexible. paltrow has said himself he can be flexible. -- donald trump has said himself he can be flexible. ted cruz is more set in his ways. they perceive him tougher to work with. host: this goes to your point about what you talked about campaigns having to work each state in terms of their state conventions or the meetings to select delegates. i would assume those delegates or a bit more, they are party

people. they participated in the party for some period of time, whether three years or 30 years. states holding republican contests, these are .lected through the state party these are not just going to be random people off the street. they are people involved in state parties whether they are activists or donors. many of them may be uncomfortable with donald trump, and a baby bound to him on the first ballot, but moving beyond that, they become unbound and they are free to support another candidate. host: have you heard anything to reach out to those delegates who are not elected so far? adam: ted cruz is the most active on this front, making sure they have paid staffers on the ground and states that have already voted. they are trained to keep activists networks in place. they seem to be making the biggest push to ensure these people are on the delegate

slates. even if they have a support a different candidate on the first round, it will be with them on the second. host: adam wollner is a political correspondent for the national journal. and now we have the democrats line. caller: good morning. i would like to get the reporter's opinion about something i saw last night on the rachel maddow show. she had the man who organized for ron paul during the 2012 campaign. he said that donald trump is not that organized. when they get to the state convention, he said in fact louisiana had there's already. he said, i guarantee you donald trump delegates are not going to be lured to donald trump after that first ballot, because i guarantee they are left over rick santorum and mitt romney delegates. donald trump cannot get enough slates put up in all of these state conventions. his opinion was, unless donald trump walks in with 1237, unless

he walks in with 1236, they will not be loyal after that first ballot. he has zero chance of getting the nomination no matter how bad it looks. i would like his opinion on that. adam: but is a great point. donald trump does not have the strongest amount of damage in any of the states that voted so far. he has gotten so much media coverage and people are able to if they want to support him even if they weren't contacted by the campaign. this will be really important going back, you mentioned how ted cruz is really organized. kasich does not have the organizes to be -- materials to be organized. and ted cruz does. if trump does not come into the convention with the 1237 number, i don't think he has the organization to make sure his delegates are going to stay with him throughout the convention process. host: whether or not is it is

convention -- contested, the chairman aims to beat switzerland-- be with his role. our minds around the idea that this could very well become a reality, and therefore those of us involved in the convention into respect to that. he spoke to reporters on capitol hill during a briefing. here is what he had to say. [video clip] >> i learned after becoming , so ir of the convention will obviously have to phone up on all the rules and those things. my goal is to be dispassionate and to be switzerland. be neutral and dispassionate and make sure the rule of law prevails. and make sure the delegates make their decision however the rule is required to do that. i will appoint myself with these things very i am pretty busy trying to get congress moving in the right direction.

host: it would also seem to be difficult to beat switzerland in the heat of the brokered convention. adam: there is only so much he can do, because a lot of these rules are set in place in the state. if they can't really change a lot of things going into the convention. so for paul ryan, this is really all he can do right now. people are floating his name as a permanent white night in the balloting. even john boehner floated him as a potential nominee. paul ryan shut that down immediately. line, and wedent have dale and new jersey. caller: hi, i have been supporting bernie sanders up to this point, and contributed $350 in support. my concern is that if you look at the history -- in 1968 you

had a brokered convention in chicago were fewer humphrey, who had not even been on the ballot, candidate.ing that the democrats were out of office until watergate. realistically it had not been until watergate, they could have been out another 12 years. my concern as a sanders supporter, and i think everyone in the country should be concerned about, is that millions of voters have had -- have chosen for their candidate, and the petty bosses and their tools have the option to ignore them. and to this end, i am wondering, only to hear your guest's opinion, if we should march on the cleveland convention, if that would help people do the right thing. reasonable voters who they can neglect -- these invisible voters who they can neglect -- if it were one million or 2

million people standing outside the convention. adam: it can be very tough for republicans to ignore the trump nomination if he comes in with a plurality, which looks like will happen. scores on the democratic side it is different. a lot of bernie sanders supporters are upset with the way the superdelegate system works, or you have these unpledged delegates were state party leaders who are free to escort any candidate. you don't have this on the republican side. on the democratic side, when hillary clinton or bernie sanders wins the contest, they get so many pledged delegates. state has superdelegates that are free to support any delegate they want. they have gone for hillary clinton overwhelmingly. she has a overwhelming lead in the pledged delegates but also the superdelegates. she has an insurmountable lead. on the republican side we don't have the same system. it is all unpledged delegates. they are free after the round of balloting. host: let's go to the republican

line and alabama. caller: good morning. this talk about bernie, iowa trump supporter. just i, trump supporter. he is not a politician. i was looking at his business sense, and this country is in such trouble. they are in such financial mud. and i don't like the demonstrators. dream -- he is referred to as a socialist. that is total government control. ted cruz, if you go back to the , he is getting things off of donald trump's message

and copycating now. and hillary, i call her and obama 3-d. host: i did to let you go. -- i need to let you go. we are talking about the of it that republican convention. we talked about how an obscure committee could go decide the gop nomination. kyle cheney wrote that the four remaining candidates are oily preparing for the of skewer rulemaking committee that could control the balance of power in a contested republican national convention in july. he writes, the 112 member rules committee has enormous influence to influence the party's outcome in the final fight. tell us about their role. adam: the rules committee -- most of the rules are set in stone, but there are certain things they can do in july if

they don't have the nominee, make it easier for one candidate or another to become the nominee. saysther is rule 40, which to become the nominee you have to win a majority of the delegates in eight states. so far only donald trump has done that, and there's a chance he could be the only delegate who is reach that threshold in july. the reason this was put in place in the first place was because in 2012, mitt romney's campaign was worried that ron paul does such a good job going to conventions and getting delegates in place, they were stealing delegates in states. mitt romney was worried about this so they put this rule in place you have got to have a majority of delegates in eight states, and that would eliminate ron paul from becoming the nominee. i know this is coming to bite them. but as the second of rule that

they could change in this convention. rule they the type of could change in this convention. potentially helping a non-trump candidate become the nominee. host: karen tweets that we heard a few days ago the gop delegates can change the rules one week before the convention. you talked about some of things they can change right up to the convention. adam: it would be a meeting of the rules committee a week before the convention. normally this kind of business, no one really pays attention. it can be pretty important when they decide a week before. but it is also important to remember most of the rules are based into the cake at this point. host: c-span has covered a number of the rules meetings ahead of the convention. i can't say we would will this time. we will ahead of the convention this summer. springfield, massachusetts, republican line. caller: thank you for accepting

my call. my main comment has to do with the fact that we are dealing with partisan politics, in the political party has responsibility and the obligation and the privilege of establishing rules for the party. we generally only deal with two parties. several years ago, as the election of president barack obama came on the scene the tea party. it became a part of the republican party. it should have been an organized party, separate from the republican party. although if that has happened, a lot of things have happened since that time in terms of the republican takeover of the congress would not have happened. so now the dilemma is, some of the people who are out front in

the republican party now came on the scene as a result of the tea party. and now they are faced with the dilemma of having to deal with the rules of the established member of the republican party that have been in business for a whole bunch of years. i would like to hear the gentleman's comment on party often,s and white, quite third parties do not work. why people sometimes don't organize third parties, fourth parties. host: all right, appreciate that. adam: even this week that was a group of conservatives in washington this week to discuss the possibility of a third party if donald trump is the nominee. the problem of air is, you have trump as the republican nominee and you have the conservative running. the would essentially hands

election to the democrats, because you are splitting the democrat vote -- republican vote two ways. trump is the nominee and conservatives decided to run a third party, or if trump also doesn't become the nominee and he decides to run as a third party, because his supporters are so upset, they may split that republican vote two ways. we might have the election going to the democrats. host: adam wollner is a political reporter for national journal. democrats, for ,02-748-2001 for republicans 202-748-2002 for independents. party leaders hope the gop still worth in cleveland will derail candidates they hope to lose in november. that is pretty high hope. adam: it goes back to that, we

entered the first round of balloting in the convention, most of the delegates are bound. when i get to the second and third round and beyond that, more than 3/4 of the delegates become on down to. a lot of them are. they have been in the party for a while, chances are they are not happy with donald trump. this may be the last chance from publicans who want to stop trump . it is turning these delegates against trump at the convention. 40t: you mentioned this rule , and we had a tweet about that, a question for you. does that rule required eight state wins, requiring eight only wins, to put a person apply to the first ballot and not -- is it just the first ballot or beyond? adam: it is a majority of delegates, you don't have to necessarily win eight states.

might actually get rewritten regardless of whether trump is the nominee or not. this is something they had put in place for years ago to kind of protect themselves against any sort of ron paul the way it is in place now, it would only be through the first ballot. after that, a lot of the rules change when a lot of these delegates become unbound. go to minnesota, steve is on the republican line. go ahead. caller: thank you. sharingery much for your time with c-span viewers this 40's. house -- wharton prides itself on graduate disruptors, and they did a good job with donald. if hillary starts to stumble

with her e-mail debacle, would there be time for donald to get on the ballot in all 50 states can see. third-party what happens if he wins a plurality of the votes if he does that? thank you very much. guest: that is a really important point. time is already running sure if someone wants to run as a third-party because a lot of the ballot deadlines are coming up. if donald trump or anybody were to wait after a convention, it would be too late to get on the ballot. host: there is a piece from "the national journal," halla contested gop nomination, kids contested gop convention complicates the veepstakes. guest: it is a unique aspect of

this. that is something that my colleague wrote at "the national journal" this week. af it is a convention -- contested convention, the vice president slot could the a very powerful chip. hey, i will pick someone more conservative or more moderate to shore up some of my wi weaknesses. normally candidates like to have weeks or months to pick their candidate. they would all of a sudden have to pick somebody. it could be risky, depending on who they and up selecting. , democratsis ellen line. caller: i am a democrat.

however, i'm calling in reference to donald trump. i am following him. i have followed him for years. donald trump is really dividing america. he is showing that he is too rich to fail. he is putting blacks and whites against each other, when we are in the same boat together. i'm trying to figure out what -- .e came in as a republican i feel like he could have locked in as a democrat. all he is doing is hijacking the republican party. i think the republican party needs to stand up and fight for what they stand for, and not be dictated to by donald trump. host: in terms of the mechanics of getting the nomination, you had an interesting point that if he ran as a democrat -- is it

easier for him to run as a republican or democrat? just in terms of the process, getting delegates. guest: probably to run as a republican, this time around. i know republicans, who oppose donald trump, wish they had the .bility to get the delegates it probably is easier for him to run as a republican. host: let's hear from the independent line, donald. -- donna. caller: thank you. my first question is in regards to rule 40, i would like to know 'se guest speaker opinion as to whether you think the gop will modify or change rule 40 to block trump. the way it sits right now -- correct me if i'm wrong -- i

don't believe he needs to have the 1237 if he has the majority of the eight states, as well as the majority of delegates. please comment on that. my second question, quickly, if you could comment on the e-mail issue pertaining to hillary. diversion by the gop, or do you really believe there is some substance to a criminal indictment possibility? question,the first .ule 40 would not really matter you need a majority of delegates and the majority of delegates and the eight states. it is a good chance that it is rewritten. it may not even play a role in july. host: she asked if the e-mail

issue will be a diversion for hillary clinton. guest: i think it will continue to come up. it feeds into the argument that she is untrustworthy and hiding something. i think this is something that republicans will attack. maryland, chris is a republican there. the open primary system has diluted the chance of electing conservative republicans. trump, he reminds me of aaron burr. i will take your comments. thank you. guest: this is an overloaded part of the primary process.

thaten contest means republicans or democrats can vote. a lot of states have closed .ontests trump has done better in the open contest than the close contest. he relies on people who are new .o the process if you look at the exit polls, he is doing just as well with republicans as he is with conservatives. . if you look at the exitif the ct helps someone like ted cruz. host: we will be covering donald trump in arizona. that is this afternoon at 2:00 eastern here on c-span. "the wall street journal" today question, can the wisdom of the crowds predict the next president?

in particular, on the issue of a brokered convention, they asked -- submitted their guesses of people. struck.how they august the gop convention fails to produce a nominee on the first vote. off, but then the interest peaking up again. i want to also show a tweet that says, i think the media is running the brokered convention idea, it is all i hear right now. obviously, some interest in the polls. is it just a media idea? are we all blowing hot air in terms of the brokered? guest: it would be much more

exciting than your usual convention. it is worth pointing out -- donald trump still has a very good chance of wrapping this thing up before we get to the convention. it is tough to say what the odds are right now. in a sense, there are -- we probably won't even know when this will be settled or if it will be contested by june 7, the very last day of the primary. it is important to remember that while there is a good shot, and probably as good of a shot we have had in recent memory, donald trump still could wrap this up. host: we go now to ron on the republican line. caller: i have a fundamental problem with the concept of superdelegates, and particularly, candidates winning

an entire state if there is a close contest. how does the concept that the constitution was based upon -- i'm not a trump supporter, but it seems extremely unfair, the way they have done donald trump. if they were not going to accept him as a nominee, then why did they have him participate in the process at all? why didn't they just stopped him from being one of the delegates? that you have superdelegates who have their own choices, and then you have people that go to the polls and vote and select the candidates that they want. superdelegates can turn right around and select to they want. isn't there a constitutional problem that, in terms of one man, one vote? guest: there isn't, actually. this is a party run process, and the way they have always done it

. 10 outsider, i think it can be a little confusing, and may even seem unfair. iny can go against voters one state. i think trump voters will use that to bolster their case if we do have a contested convention. host: a question from twitter, who is eligible in an open republican convention? could someone like romney step in? guest: theoretically yes. if we go through multiple rounds of voting and no candidate emerges, then the rules would allow for another candidate, maybe mitt romney.

the possibility of that would be pretty slim. host: next up is from tennessee, independent line. caller: good morning. ina trump supporter, november, we will all right in his name. i used to be a democrat, and voted for romney. what did we end up getting? an empty suit. thank you. republicans don't face a lot of really good options at this point. the party has already been split now. either you are for trump, or against him. whether he becomes the nominee or not, you will have a pretty large fraction of the party that is unhappy, with the option of a third party, or writing and something else. host: we mentioned this article

earlier in the program, the headline in "the wall street journal," t obama's approval .ating rises oft you see as the role president obama in the c campaign for hillary clinton? guest: of course, he wants his legacy to live on after he leaves office. helps that half of americans view him favorably. that probably speaks to him not occupying the spotlight that he was a few years ago. he can get people fired up over

what he has accomplished over the past two terms. host: let's hear from the republican line, fort lauderdale, florida. caller: i just wanted to mention to trump supporters crying about if he has more delegates than anybody else. i'm sure none of them cried about president gore. the rules are the rules. donald trump cannot get a deality in this great maker should be able to make a deal to form a coalition. if he cannot do that, he cannot be the standardbearer. this is an empty suit, a demagogue, and will not just destroyed the party, but the country. , new one more call here

jersey. deborah is on the independent line. ,aller: i was just wondering you were talking about the delegates that are chosen that eventually go to the convention. have you ever read a book called "america's lost opportunity," the latest edition was from october 2015. it was talking about the various shenanigans that went on at the 2012 election. you were characterizing the poll people as stealing delegates. that was not the case at all. the rules committee at the convention, actually changed the rules, changing the threshold of oftes needed for a plurality votes. this book is really factual.

it was not a matter of romney thing worried about stealing -- it was the opposite. pool for orchestrated delegates. the changing of the rules was right before the convention started, and that is something that they put under the carpet. certainly they were very theirzed to make sure the delegates were organized. there are lessons from that they can be taken. they need to make sure that the people remain loyal to them. host: you can read his reporting at national journal.com, and also follow him on twitter. thank you for being with us this morning. joined bynext, we are

jeffrey mankoff, a former state department advisor on russia. we will talk about the decision this week by side new program to pull russian troops out of syria . our next guest on newsmakers aron.week is nan an she leads the group, alliance for justice. she talked with a reporter about courtus test for nominees. [video clip] >> bernie sanders says he has a litmus test for nominees. they have to be able to overthrow citizens united. hillary clinton has indicated that decision has to go. >> we have taken issue with

the use of litmus test going back to the early 1980's, when articulated, in his reelection run, that he was going to look for judges that met three criteria. where antiabortion, anti-affirmative action, and in favor of prayer in school. as long as we have been involved in toiling in these fields, it has been my position that litmus thes have no place in national conversation. having said that, i think it is important for presidents to to talk about the court, the types of justices

they would like to see on the court, but i have never supported litmus tests from democratic or republican candidates. basically, when each of us enters a courtroom, as a party, we want to make sure that the judge before whom we are appearing is someone who is , andminded and open-minded has not rendered an opinion on any particular issue. i think that is what we all hope walk into a courtroom. i think that is what we deserve to expect from our judges. therefore, pledges of one sort or another are very hard for -- hurtful. jeffrey mankoff is the program jerked her for the

pressure program at the center for strategic and international studies and also advised the state department from 2010 to 2011. here to talk to us about the decision by flagman put in to pull troops out of russia. how surprised were you when you heard that announcement this week? guest: i was surprised, but when you start reading between the lines, less so. actually, the russians are leaving behind a substantial force. even though some of the troops and equipment are coming back, it is not like they are pulling out completely. host: remind us of why the russians went to aid assad in the first place. guest: assad in syria had been a close russian ally going back to the 1970's. russian naval facility on the coast of syria that it was using

in its our projection aims projection power aims in the mediterranean. territorial control is diminishing. the rebel groups are pushing closer to damascus. it appears that the ties had turned, and assad a be forced to go. the russian intervention was aimed at assad and providing him the ability to change them in them -- the momentum of the battlefield. host: as you mentioned, the pull out may be just a partial pullout. there is a headline this morning in "the washington post" saying that airstrikes are continuing in syria. look at the broader impact of the presence of russian troops

in syria. moscow demonstrates a good lead military might. with limited consequential intervention, to conflicts -- ukraine andyria -- vladimi syria, vladimir putin has shown the russian military's growing proficiency as well as his appetite to use force to achieve his greater geopolitical goals. to you think that was part of greater, to show a russian forced to a broader world rather than just in the middle east? guest: i think that is part of it. the russian military has become much more capable over the last

9-10 years, or so. oftainly intervening outside the immediate neighborhood, was a step forward in terms of ambition. i think it does send a message not just to immediate neighbors, and potentially more broadly, russia is a country capable of achieve political ends. host: our guest is jeffrey mankoff. (202) 748-8000 is the number to call for democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. for independents and all others, (202) 745-8002. for your tweets, send those to @cspanwj. here is wisconsin, the independent line. good morning to you. caller: i wonder if the guest has any opinions on hillary's proposals or policies.

her idea of having qs plane shooting u.s. planes down russian planes. guest: i don't think secretary clinton proposed american planes engaging with russian planes, which would be a very dangerous step to take, obviously. the reasons that russia may have intervened when it did was to make the idea of creating safe zone more or less impossible. host: john kerry was asked his reaction to the news in a brief news conference earlier this week. here's what he had to say. [video clip] secretary kerry: with the cessation of hostilities largely holding russians announcement

yesterday that it will remove half of its forces immediately, ,nd more, perhaps from syria and with the political negotiations reconvening this week in geneva, we have reached a very important phase in this process. i will be traveling next week to moscow to meet with president putin and the foreign minister in order to discuss how we can effectively move the political process forward, and try to take it vantage of this moment. we know that despite the progress we have made, despite the reductions in violence, and increases in humanitarian assistance and relief, lasting impossible without a genuine political transition. this is a moment to seize, not

ways. we have, at this moment, the ability to finally take a step towards ending this war and the bloodshed. you're no longer a state department advisor, but in terms of what secretary kerry is going when he meetsfor the foreign minister next week, what is the administration's next step? guest: i think the mr. show wants to see a transition that leads to a sad stepping down, that leads to a government that includes members of the opposition and can focus military efforts on defeating isis and other extremist groups. host: but fear from florida, sam is on the line. go ahead. caller: thank you for c-span. my question is the recent military operation, northern differenthat was 10

muslim countries, ending about the same time that the russians announced their withdrawal. time turkey, at the same had built up their forces on the border. orde how valid is all that? guest: if i understood correctly, you are asking how the actions of turkey and some of the arab countries are .mpacted by the russian pullout obviously, this has become a proxy conflict where the russians are perceived by the regional powers as intervening on the side of the syrian forces. it is obviously a potentially situation.

thatnk part of the reason the russians are interested in a limited intervention and having some court sort of -- some sort resolution is to keep themselves out of the conflict. we go to michigan, laura. i would just like to discuss america's misconception about crimea. i am a student of history, action working on my doctorate. i'm very interested in this particular area, and russian , in particular. the crimea belonged to russia

for eons. anyone who knows about the crimea knows that russia was involved in it, and there were .o ukrainian people, even then now, when president putin decided to take back the crimea, which he thinks belongs to russia, which, as far as my research shows, it did. theynot figure out why felt they wanted to give that ukrainians. any of my readings in history -- russia and crimea were associated am really disappointed that americans are so ignorant of russian history. we never do any research to check and see that they why this was done, and things of that nature. i was wondering if you could shed a little light on that

topic. guest: thank you. it is always a little bit dangerous to say this country was ours at some point in the past, so should we now. if you go back far enough in the past, you have a lot of claimants. crimea was part of the ottoman empire. if you start invoking historical arguments, we don't know where it stops. as far as u.s. policy goes, the supportedhat we have the system of european that they have the right to be sovereign inside the international recognized territory. russia recognized the borders of the ukraine and post-soviet states as they existed when the soviet union collapsed. by unilaterally changing the borders that recognized, the

concern in the united states and ulcer was that russia was potentially opening up a can of claimants could make revisions claims, you could have a dangerous situation not just in europe, but in the world as well. host: a couple of comments on twitter. you can send us a tweet at @cspanwj. this one says, aside must go, no see offor peace in syria tranquility asked, doesn't this announcement open the door wider for a diplomatic solution in syria? guest: i think that is part of the strategy, especially with secretary kerry going to moscow. russians, i think

there is a sense that aside was getting a little too big for his britches. people started talking about ,etaking the entire country fighting perhaps to the last russian. by announcing the pullout, is starting the diplomatic process, i think russians are signaling to the side that his ambition of taking the entire territory unilaterally is not realistic. host: as you read the russian press, is that their view that they are pretty satisfied with the campaign? so far, the russian campaign has gone quite well. the depiction has been this was

an example of limited application of force for limited ends. host: we go to vermont, democrats like. caller: i have a, about the comment about the election. represent thets ?dea of revolution bernie sanders is the only candidate among republicans and democrats that can be president of this great nation to bring changes that i want. ok? citizens united should be

disappeared. host: why don't you give us your thoughts on the topic, the syria. pullout of caller: russia entered afghanistan and killed millions of americans and afghanistan's. i hate russia. to get rido anything of people. i've lost my brother. he lost his life when he went to russia. .hey wanted to interfere i have the very worst memory of the russian people. host: thanks for your call. entry inhe russian

syria with what happened in afghanistan back in the late 1970's. guest: when russia intervened in 1979, it was a brutal civil war. troops are on the ground for years.o 20 i think it contributed in some ways to do his thing of the ending of the soviet union. to the extent that the russian leadership is learning from that pass, i think syria is a much more limited intervention. in involved primarily airstrikes and strikes from warships stationed offshore, rather than ground forces. handful.st been a

moreover, with announcement made a few days ago, now, the back, ands on pulling getting a political solution. this is a much more political campaign than what they tried in afghanistan. host: let's go to peter in pennsylvania. independent line. forer: thank you very much accepting my call. the idea of the 2k getting out of the eu, and how that might the crackdown on the press, and what that might mean for russia withdrawing.

i'm happy to take your answer. thank you very much. guest: i'm not sure there is any direct connection. certainly, in a broader sense, i think the russians are watching very quickly over the brexit record of -- referendum, and what is happening in turkey. ever since the cold war, russia has seen nato as being a generally hostile force. they have come to view the eu that way as well. if united kingdom is going to ask a choose to pull itself out of the eu, i think, in some ways, that is a development that the russians would welcome. as far as turkey is concerned,

in onlationship with ankara has been very tense. i personally do not the relationship with turkey is improve. opinionwant to ask your of a real clear politics piece n went intoy puti syria." he says that was simply to show that he could. and seizedaudiences,

crimea against no opposition. service failede what was happening. guest: i think part of the story in came back tout power, the russian economy has not been performing particularly well. part of the strategy for the domestic legitimization has been to focus more on nationalism, promoting the image of russia as a parcel state in the country capable of standing up for its people and interests. some of the more aggressive approach is to form policy that to ave seen does play

domestic audience that putin can no longer provide economic growth the way he did in the first two terms of his presidency. self-esteem emphasized after the seizure of crimea and during the course of the conflict. intervention became a messy, ambivalent conflict where it. to have to be bought at two high of a price. it is only now transferred to a

new theater. the question that people are asking now is if there is in fact a pullback, what happens next? how you keep up the momentum is the syrian conflict moves off the front burner? host: do you think it accelerates the peace negotiation process? guest: it is a message to the saw that he will have to negotiate. i think the limited cease-fire negotiated has been performing better than expected. that does create some opening for diplomacy. we will see if all the sites can coordinate their position. i am more cautiously optimistic now that i have been for a while. host: here is florida, michael on the democrats line. hello? are you there? go ahead. caller: yes. yes.

i was calling about the basis. i think there is a deep initial basis. we are discussing the civilized veneer. underneath that, there is something called complex ptsd that i think not only are they suffering, but we are as well. one in five of the young men over there has committed atrocity or rape in the name of religion. , it causesm science in black see things and white. they are perfectly adapted to an environment that none of us want. they are adopted to world where one in five people is raping, and unfortunately one out of

three women have been raped. they become mothers. adopted torrectly world that we do not want. apply -- ed to do is the only religion because religion and science are united -- we need to go beyond our biology. whereis work now ongoing things. coming out with it is something that is behaviorally transmitted. deepteep biology -- this biology. you are right there in the trenches. young men are justifying their doing these things basically on

the basis that they feel guilty about this, and they are transferring their guilt to women. host: i will let you go there. we will hear from jeffrey mankoff. any thoughts or comments? overtakingpassions the middle east have been building for a long time. there are a number of sources. you have faye traumatized societies that have chafed under the rule of the assad government, the saddam hussein government in iraq, and the like. governments have not provided opportunities to people that havealluded education that cracked down on avenues for personal freedom or expression. you have radical ideologies aout what is important

response to these regimes. the middle east is going of profoundriod uncertainty and transportation. i wonder. i don't think we can see quite how that will end, regardless if there is a to the max solution to this particular phase of the next couple of months, or not. talking with the russian pullout of syria, but the headline in cbs news saying, five years on, how the syrian the world.anged march 2011, the arab spring. you think that president putin had any awareness -- was there an awareness of the significance of the timing of the pull out, the fifth anniversary of the arab spring? guest: i don't think that had much to do with it. i think the russians, they went into syria for their own narrow reasons of national interest,

and the pull out is also driven by narrow calculations of national interest. host: looking at things that have come out of the arab spring, the syrian conflict, in particular. one they talk about is the rise of isis. they talk of a resurging russia. europe destabilized, in terms of the migrant population. we have not talked about iran's role in syria in our conversation with the russians out. where does this leave iran? guest: russia and iran have largely been on the same page however, there are some tensions between the two of them. with the russians stepping back a little bit, i think that means the day-to-day responsibility will fall increasingly to the iranians.

now, part of the challenge will be this tension which has been somewhat subdued about how they want to push forward. i think iranians are more wedded to assad than the russians are. of course, russians are very worried about hezbollah. if iranians are going to be the main supporters on the syrian government side, i think that means that some of the proxies they have been pushing forward, that they have been supporting, are going to be playing a slightly more prominent role. another 15 minutes or so with our guest, jeffrey mankoff, a former state adviser on russia. beer segment the russian pullout, the decision by vladimir putin to pull troops out of syria. (202) 748-8000 is the number to call for democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans.

for independents and others, (202) 745-8002. let's go to indiana, james, democrats line. caller: hello? host: go ahead. wondering,as everybody seems to be ignoring the elephant in the living room, which is the nuclear capability of iran. in another 10 years, those people are going to be ready to destroy israel. i'm betting they are going to have a limited nuclear war which across the planet. why don't we do some thing now to put an end to it? the development of iran's nuclear program was unsettling for a lot of the actors in the middle east, but also in the wider region, including russia.

the obama administration's nuclear deal signed with iran earlier this year was an important step in trying to address those concerns. it is not a perfect deal, obviously, but as part of the negotiating process, i think it was the best deal you can get. if forces iranians to accept intrusive checks and inspections. moving forward, i think the efforts to coax i ran back into isolation out of its that it has been thrust into, and give it more of a stake, in nuclear for giving up weapons, is probably the best alternative that the international community has at this point. it does not mean that the

military option will be off the table down the road if they were to break out those capabilities. i think we have but i felt some time. ght ourselves on time. host: you are on the air, go ahead. caller: i want to ask a couple of things. appreciate c-span. i watch every morning. i like the show you do. i wish the news would take some and advocated for the american people. how many presidents have gone to russia -- one from georgia, one

from ukraine. they do not ask the russian people to stay if they want to stay with the ukraine people. nobody. now, i don't know, all of this confusion we see on the news. your news, and i see more than what the news gives us here. all these people -- host: can you tell us where you are from originally? are you from crimea or ukraine? amler: and from greece -- i

from greece. host: thank you. let's go to amy and virginia, independent line. the guests mentioned that one of the reasons russia with through was because assad was basically getting a bit , and they wanted to send a message to a thought that it is time now to negotiate in the peace talks, and not think that russia will come and save the country. he talked about a political transition. my question is what might that political transition actually look like. does that include assad stepping down at some point, or is that a moot issue now because aside is assad is in such a powerful position. he stopped short of what that political transition would look like, and what he expects to

see. host: good question. thank you. , from thesia signaled very beginning of the conflict, and ever since the intervention that they don't see this about being ultimately about assad. yes, assad has been an ally, yes, the intervention is designed to support him, by don't think there is a deep commitment to al-assad on the part of the russian state. there is a concern, obviously, at the time of the initial intervention that thought could be ousted in the final, uncontrollable way that could leave syria in the state of chaos, like what we saw when , orafi was overthrown saddam hussein in iraq. ,he result of the regime change which was brought about by five

it means, was chaos and the creation of groups like isis. thinkhough i don't russians are wedded to assad personally, i think they care very much about having an orderly transition that does not create a vacuum in syria, and also transition that leads to some kind of a successor government that is accepting of russian equities, including likely the presence of russian forces in syria, and some degree interestnce to russian . whether that is headed by al-assad, or some other military figure, or someone else entirely, i don't think matters quite so much. what matters for the russians is how the transition is carried out, and that there is not chaos in the interim, and that whatever follows is something

that is still largely acceptable to moscow. published demented" an extended piece on president obama's foreign policy, "the obama doctrine" is the title of the piece. particularly on syria, and the decision to not put u.s. troops into syria, he says, the president is saying, when you have a professional army this armed, and sponsored by two large states, suddenly now, placing themselves in the midst of civil conflict because the notion that we -- the united states -- change the equation on the ground was never true. the message that obama telegraphed was clear, he would not end up like the second president bush, a president who became tragically overextended in the middle east, and whose

decisions killed the words of , even when he recalibrated his policies and his second term, president obama would say the first task of an american president was to not do stupid stuff. do you think that may have been a cut commission also a vladimir putin, in terms of the length of time he was willing to commit forces to. ? syria? guest: he had. i think it was one that to not risk having large numbers of russian soldiers coming home in body bags. the russians could do that because they had an effective proxy force doing the heavy lifting on the ground, the syrian army. the challenge for the united states, and the one that president obama was very cognizant of with the fact that

whatever proxy force the united states would be relying on to do the dirty work on the ground was not going to be nearly as effective as the syrian army. ultimately, if united were to achieve more political inns on the ground, there was high likelihood that it would involve sending ground troops. host: are there still advises on the ground? guest: there are, and the presumably still will be. host: but go to michigan. that president obama should help the syrian people. russia should withdraw. obama, he should work one-on-one with the syrian president to eace to those people overseas. host: let me ask you one more question from twitter that asks,

how long can russia a for the war in syria and ukraine with the low prices of oil? guest: the operation in syria has action -- actually been comparatively inexpensive. the cancellations i have seen to milliont has cost dollars-$3 million a day, which in thend like a lot, but scheme of the russian budget, is not a lot. i do not think it is a big financial drain. can start if russia economizing a bit, that is an added benefit. i don't think that was the main driver to step back. jeffrey mankoff, former pfizer to the state department on russia, thanks for being with us this morning. guest: thank you. host: that will about do it for

this morning's program. here is what is coming up tomorrow. we will be joined by niels lesniewski, talking about the election and the agenda for the congress. then, wade henderson and levey.ly be -- curt they will talk about the vacant u.s. supreme court seat. and, tom hart on poverty in the u.s. all of that getting underway tomorrow at 7:00 eastern on c-span. we hope to see you back here tomorrow at 7:00. ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

>> next, senators test self driving cars on washington, d.c. streets, followed by a hearing on self driving cars. senator harry reid discusses auto trump, and later onator jeff sessions populism. >> south dakota senator john soon and bill nelson of florida, the chair and ranking member on the commerce and science committee, tested to self turning cars -- two self driving cars in anar