a growing number. we know about 50% of people over 85 suffer alzheimer's or some other form of dementia. that kind of connection between increasing longevity on the one hand anti-risks of dementia on the other -- and the risks of dementia on the other provide a great challenge to all of us. focus on this last number. there is some disagreement. this is a fidelity member. $220,000 is the estimated amount that a 65-year-old couple will spend between now and death. out of pocket on health care. here's the next slide. this is why that's important. in the united states -- i'm going to focus on the u.s. for purposes of this conversation. but obviously these are challenges not just in the u.s. but many other parts of the world. a majority of pre-retirees in our country, you can see the pie chart, have less than $100,000 in financial assets. do you remember the number that i talked about in the last slide? $220 in medical expenses -- $220,000 in medical expenses alone.

not housing, food, travel, transportation. $100,000 in financial assets. houston, we have a problem. so, there's good news and this is where i want to focus this going forward. and the good news is the culture of aging is changing. i bet if i had time to spend with each one of you what i'd find is that your attitudes are different than they may have been earlier in your lives. frankly different than those attitudes that might have existed with your parents and grandparents. the majority of baby boomers want to continue to work or work past age 65. that's a very good thing. why?

because work is good for your health. and it's good for your wealth. traditional retirement can elevate a wide range of health risks. it is not good to move to a beach to play shuffleboard, to hang out in a rec center and wait to die. it is good to remain engaged and active and purposeful and productive. that's one of the things that we have to try to promote, all of us, and to live it and i'll talk a little bit about how much difference that makes in just a second here. this is research done by a woman, a prominent researcher at yale university, found in a study she did that people who had a positive self image of aging and sense of purpose in their lives lived an average of 7.5 years longer than those who didn't. this is a more important life extension factor than body mass index or smoking. if you want to live longer and live well, you want your family to live longer and live well, look in the mirror, change your attitudes about, in my case no hair, but it may be white hair,

and i don't know why we lost our slide here, here we go. i'll go back, but the point is that this sense of purpose is not just soft. it's manifested in these kinds of numbers and this kind of research. rush medical center in chicago found people had a sense of purpose in their lives were 2.4 times more likely to remain free of alzheimer's. this is kind of the traditional view, right? you get to the end whenever the end is. and you have the party. and you get the gold watch and go off into the sunset if you're in new york or boston. less true in los angeles. you probably have a house on the

beach somewhere in florida. you go down to live with a bunch of people your old age and you don't have much to do. well, fortunately that's changing. ed glazer who is an e-con professor at harvard says the retirement boom seems like soft money of an aberration. the current rise of the working elderly is a reversion to form. sun city was developed by a really smart guy and opened just post-war as we all know. by wait the day it opened 100,000 people lined up to see the new housing product that dell webb had developed. dell webb was a smart guy. instead of buying expensive property in the urban core that involved mixed use and intergenerational engagement, he figured he would buy worthless desert land, put up -- create this new norm, and invest a lot of money in marketing. boy, was he smart in doing it. this is not what people want anymore. aarp data shows that today about 90% of people over 50 years of old want to age in community and in place. so the question becomes, how do we change our urban environments and ensure not only intergenerational engagement but the kind of health infrastructure, housing education, work, and all the rest that keeps us vibrant, engaged, and connected.

my friend at the "new york times," david, terrific guys who is interested in this subject, said this, i just love david's quote. retirement and disengagement should be managed with a warning label saying, this is something you may not want to consume. people who were innovative in their earlier lives can remain innovative and do more important work as they get older. people who were prominent can become even more prominent as age progresses. people who were creative and took risks on stage can take even more creative risks as they move along in life.

people who were explorers can continue to explore. explore new ways. mickes, mick jagger, was wrong. mick did in fact say i'd rather be dead than singing "satisfaction" when i'm 45. here's mick strutting at 72 and doing it more effectively than he did at 22. how is all this manifesting? this is coffman foundation data from 2012-2013. the business creation, despite all the hyperbole every day. more business creation is coming

out of middle-aged and older people than out of younger people. this by the way continues to progress. and not surprisingly in many ways those businesses are more successful. why? because older entrepreneurs had been bumped around. they have wisdom and judgment and experience. and the perspective of -- here we are. we need to move forward. and the perspective that creates more successful businesses. by the way, this is so important because we know that job creation comes from small and small and medium-sized enterprises. not from large businesses. the opportunity for older people and encouragement for older people to begin new businesses couldn't be more important for them and couldn't be more important for the broader society. older people are returning to school in new ways. and the advent of new programs, both on campus and online, create a phenomenal new opportunities and i think this

is one of my messages, not just university leaders, who should be embracing a more diverse -- age diverse, but to older people, that the opportunity to refresh skills, learn new skills, reinvent, repurpose is important. academic institutions, these connections don't just provide information, they expand relationship networks. one of the challenges oftentimes as we move along in our lives is our relationship networks become static. we end up hanging out with the same people that we have hung out with for years. young people bumped into new people all the time. that creates ideas. new ventures. so the opportunity for older people to engage in new educational programs just couldn't be more important for them. again for the broader society. encore.org, which many' a proud proud board a member and metlife foundation did a study on older people who were interested in what we define as encore careers.

these are careers involving purpose, passion. oftentimes a paycheck. we actually have an encore fellow sitting in our room. the notion is this potential to deploy the skills, the experience, the wisdom and judgment exposures we have had in new ways to improve the world. what encore and metlife found is 31 million adults, older adults, who were interested in these kinds of careers, nine million were already doing them. again, a phenomenal opportunity to deploy this extraordinary human capital asset that we have. for any economists in the room, we talk a lot about kind of the expectations of retirement and the economic charge that that places on society. what we should be thinking is not that we have a necessarily underutilized human capital asset, we have an incredibly abundant human capital asset that's ready to be deployed to continue and grow productivity and frankly to improve the

world. older adults volunteer, this is data that comes from the white house conference on aging that was held earlier this year, 20-plus million older adults, volunteering, 75 billion in contribution to the economy through their volunteer work. and by the way, many people think this underestimates the actual numbers. so let's turn for a second to economics. again we are just touching on a range of subjects that each one of these could be an hour conversation. oxford economics and aarp did some analysis on the size of our longevity economy. products and services and related economic output for those 50-plus in the united states. what they found was if the longevity economy was a country, based on g.d.p., it would have

the third largest g.d.p. in the world after the u.s. and china. and again what's the opportunity here? when i'm speaking to young people, one of the things i say is, if you want to -- a green field, if you want an opportunity to get involved in something that presents more exciting opportunities, think about the intersection of demography and innovation. at the intersection of demographic change and innovation is where economic growth occurs, and there could be no more exciting opportunity in that regard than the opportunity to serve older adults. this is just some ideas. it ranges, obviously, from digital health tools and range of technology options to, frankly, even things like the sharing economy. uber and lyft and others are thinking how they could represent that last mile in getting people to the doctor's office or to their work environments. so the longevity economy presents a wonderful opportunity for not only for economic growth, for our country, but for new products and services as i often say, a door that can fit a

25-year-old may not be able to fit a wheelchair, but a door that can fit a wheelchair can always fit a 25-year-old. architects need to think in new ways. designers, city planners. think about uber and the autonomous car. how many people in the audience have parent or have had a parent where the keys had to be taken away? we live in southern california where we know how important that is. think of the potential of autonomous cars. think of the potential of this initiative that google has taken on and others are following quickly. that would enable us to remain mobile for the rest of our lives. regardless of capacity.

huge potential change in society. because i have limited time i want to leave you with a few thoughts. first about millennials. we think of aging that those of us in my generation and even in the generation before, the silent generation, would be most interested in. i tell younger people that they should be more focused on changes in aging and what longevity means to them than we are. why? first of all, the millennials, this is people between late teens and mid 30's, the largest, most diverse population in the united states. it is the least financially secure. a generation that we have, much less financially secure than early boomers or x-ers were at the same times in their lives. 56% you can see living paycheck to paycheck. negative savings rate, 26% living at home with their parents.

homeownership rates extraordinarily low. why is that important? because these people -- these young people have the prospect of potentially much longer lives. i was speaking to one of my colleagues earlier about what longevity science is doing. we all know we are living in the generation after which the human genome was coded. used to cost a couple billion dollars, now it's almost free. massive advances are being made in longevity science. there's speculation that ranges from life extension that's just a couple years to people who speculate. there are actual scientists who speculate that lives of 200 years are likely in a generation. i discount that. i discount that, but i do believe that longer lives are it ahead. what that means is the definition of life course, wait people have looked at their lives, this is certainly true for us, but very much true for our kids, kind of a look in the rear-view mirror, how did grandma and grandpa and great grandma and great grandpa live

their lives just isn't relevant anymore. that's hard to fathom because it worked for almost all of human history. we could look back and say, life course was designed based on a series of patterns and practices. that were developed by prior generations. generations to come are going to reinvent life. what that means is going back to school multiple times. means preparing for multiple careers. and when i'm speaking on college campuses to young people, i see eyes glazing over, how many of you are in relationships? about half the people in the room raise their hands. i say, how does a 90-year marriage strike you? that creates conversation. so even companies like google, so we all know google for search. we all know google for search. we now see google as created this new holding company called alphabet which it's broken out

its search business. one of google's businesses is called calico. run by a very smart guy named mark levinson, who used to be chairman and c.e.o. of genetek. he's got people at google working on radically extending lives. you see others here, buck institute. this is again something that's proliferating across the united states and the world. will they succeed? i don't know. i'm not a bioscientist. will they accomplish some improvements? yes. do i hope that they focus as much or more on the extension of health span as life span? boy, do i hope that.

it's not just about longer lives, it's about better and healthier lives. the point is, the narrative, the expectations, the culture, is just changing. what i want you to think about, culture is changing for boomers, x-ers, millennials and generations to come. for all of you, savings and investment are for more than a life of leisure. golf is just wonderful. if there are any golfers in the room, i don't mean to insult anybody. i will tell you that work and focus on personal health and learning and philanthropy and purpose are not just drivers of the better world, they are drivers of personal health. ageism must be challenged to enable productivity and purpose. we know that ageism is still rife in our society. it's remarkable because you think it's the one characteristic, it's the only acceptable ism that still exists, it's ironic because it's the one characteristic we all have in common if we are lucky. so we need to enable people to

continue to work. we need employers to think in new ways about transitional retirement. shared work arrangements. part-time arrangements. the other kinds of things that kind can accommodate human capital across the life span in new ways. by the way, i'll say for any employers in the room, there's increasing evidence, research based data, that suggests that intergenerational work forces outperform same-age work force of any age. older younger workers bring phenomenal short-term memory. energy, creativity. disruption. older workers bring -- disruption i mean that in a positive way. older workers bring balance and multisectorial cross problems. and the mentorship, the opportunities to connect older people and young people are remarkable. moving either expressly or by implication, older people out of your workplace, is not good for business.

let me tell you, some of the smartest employers in the united states now, have work going on in the back of their shops. rather than matching two ph.d.s from computers science from stanford who are 30, they are putting a 30-year-old and 65-year-old together recognizing the power of that connection. so we need to address ageism. we need to take it on. we need to talk about it. and this is, i think, one of the great social challenges of our time. we need to increase our investment in prevention and wellness. talked about lengthening health span. if we don't succeed in tackling chronic disease, succeed in deferring dementias, alzheimer's, and other forms of dementia, the public cost -- we do not have. despite all the political hyperbole, we do not have a social security problem in the united states. it's easily fixable. it will be fixed.

what we have is we have a medicare and medicaid challenge and it is massive. massive. we can do remarkable things to reduce it if we have will. those remarkable things are principally focused on prevention and wellness. some of that requires personal accountability and responsibility. some of it requires policy change. some of it requires change in the workplace. something we have to focus on. longevity economy presents a compelling opportunity for innovation, investment in economic growth for investors in the room, if you go back and look over the last 10 years or so at the companies that have experienced the greatest levels of growth, what you'll see is a remarkable connection between them and the aging population. as people age, as they remain in workplaces longer, higher tax revenues, increased consumerism, changing tastes, yes, some people call it the "best exotic mare gold hotel" phenomenal or -- "the best exotic marigold hotel" phenomenon or "the

intern," but it's bigger than that. the longevity economy is an investment economy opportunity and to benefit the people across the age spectrum will change lives forever my friend, mark friedman, who runs encore says the upside of aging amounts to a human capital windfall, capable of turning dependent ratios into a new source of abundance. not just the opportunity for more fulfilling lives but the key to solving many of the social problems that ail us as a nation. one of the benefits of aging is perspective. even old rivals can get together and do things that are productive with each other. and guess what? sometimes, sometimes later in life we can do the most important work of our lives and we can change the world. so john guard next wonderful person who many of us read and care about and think about, professor at stanford, founder

of common cause, experience corps, and form h.e.w. secretary said we are continually faced with a series of great opportunities, brilliantly disguised as insoluble problems. aging can be a great, great challenge. and it can be a huge problem. akin to climate change. this will be a problem, by the way, not just for the united states but for populations across the world. but if we can figure out a way to engage our older adults, keep them healthier, keep them active longer, will not only dramatically reduce public costs but remarkably improve lives. thank you. [applause] >> thank you so much. mr. irving: if i had more time -- >> we'll give "q&a" time. raise your hand, and lindsay will bring your microphone to

you. >> thank you. how did you get from being an attorney to becoming a specialist on aging? mr. irving: it's a great question. i'll give you the rider's digest digest version as my old partner knows. i finished a stint as the c.e.o. of and i suppose my choice was to go back and do what hi done for 30 years or so, to do deals. i was a guy who did m and a work and corporate finance work. but for some reason i felt something missing in my life that i wanted to do something that was contributing in some kind of different way. as i always say to people, some of those people say to me was it hard to walkway from the money? i say to people, look, if you had a good corporate practice, you were always the poorest guy in the room, so nothing has changed.

so i was fortunate enough to have opportunity to spend a year at harvard university. i did a fellowship at harvard with 19 other people. this was an extraordinary group of people who had led other organizations by and large, and had been philanthropically involved, socially involved throughout their lives. here we were, this is a group of people between 55 and 70 or so, called the harvard advance leadership initiative. and we were wandering the campus for a year trying to figure out our own pathways to new work. and i thought to myself if it's this challenging for all of us, these are people we had the former minister of health of switzerland and the former transportation secretary of the united states and corporate c.e.o.'s and others, if it's this challenging for all of us, understanding the value of this cohort, how much it would be for others. i had this incredible sense of desire to contribute, desire to

do things that could help the world and yet this kind of challenge and understanding that it was possible. so we were kind of pioneers. that led me to think about the potential of older people as a human capital asset. i honest believe the distinguishing characteristic in countries and in companies is human capital. financial capital is extraordinarily important. social capital, rule of law, etc. extraordinarily important. the distinguishing characteristic, certainly true in a law firm and i think it's true in most enterprises, certainly true in what i do now, distinguishing characteristic is the human beings that come in the door every day. i just had this notion that there was this wonderful potential opportunity to engage people for their own good and for the good of the broader society. that's how i got absorbed. interesting stuff. >> in order for people to age in

place you're going to need caregivers. i'm volunteer state president for aarp california, and that's one of our main priorities. in your opinion, what would be some of the policy priorities in order to meet this gap? mr. irving: it's an incredibly important question. as you know, there are about 50 million caregivers in the united states paid and unpaid. some of the least understood and respected people with the most challenging work that we can do. among other things, there are a lot of wonderful people, who are working on this. one of the things that we need to do is look at compensation and reimbursement. we need to professionalize care giving and uplift t we need to connect caregivers who oftentimes are involved in the loneliest work that exists and don't have ongoing education, professional associations,

connections. there's so much we can do. but i would say for all of us if you know a caregiver, say thank you. most of us will be caregivers at some time in our lives. and many of us will be caregivers for many years. we need to figure out ways to get people paid through both public programs and private initiative entrepreneurship. and we need to figure out a way to connect caregivers, educate them, professionalize them, and uplift them. it's really important. >> isn't there going to be a collision between the technologically advanced millennials coming in to the marketplace really without a place to go in a way, and the baby boomers who are not quite technologically advanced but want to stay on and keep working and will block these millennials coming in?

i'm not thinking value judgment. isn't there going to be a collision with a limited number of resources available to solve both problems? mr. irving: i would say two things. first of all the operating assumption which is incorrect is that older adults aren't technologically proficient. they use technology at about the same rates at younger people. people don't understand that. it's true. they use it in different ways. they engage in social media on different sites than younger people, but they are about as technologically absorbed and adept. that's the first thing. second thing is is that in this kind of intergenerational clash that people oftentimes talk about, shouldn't we -- let me ask the question in a different way. shouldn't we insist that older people leave the workplace to make room for younger people, there are people who ask me

that. i want to respond to it to get it out. so, it operates on a false economic theory. a static economic theory. an economic theory that is very similar to the economic theory employed to impede the progression of women in the workplace. that is is if we simply add -- retain a population or add a new population, zero sum gain. don't some people lose their jobs? what it fails to understand is economies are dynamic. what happens is you keep people working, they continue to pay taxes, they continue to consume. the economy grows. the more involvement we have in the economy, the better it is for everyone. so we might be able to point at specific examples wherefore some reason older people and younger people slash, but on a macrolevel, there is no question that retaining older people in the work force is not just good for older people, it's good for younger people as well.

bigger, more robust economy, more longevity economy that i talked about. mentorship and intergenerational strength. and again economic growth. on the technology side, i just told you that i think the -- there are assumptions about the capability interest, technology inefficiency of older people is not true. \[inaudible/] mr. irving: to me that's an argument for lifelong learning. i had a conversation with a group of young people who were engineering students. this was not too long ago on our campus at u.s.c. and i said to them, understanding this prospect of much longer lives and the rapid level of technology -- technological change, the things they are learning today will be as arcane as the flat earth by the time they are in their third

or fourth job. for all of us, whether you are 18 or 38 or 58 or 78, continuing learn something a really, really important characteristic of successful longevity. we have to kind of change the narrative, change the norm that suggests that college -- i mentioned i spent some time at harvard university. harvard university opened its doors in 1636. in 1636 it made a tremendous amount of sense to say we are not going to design a program around people who are 50 years old. or 60 years old. or 70 years old with life spans that time. we haven't changed those norms. i went to law school, we are teaching the same thing in law school today in the same way that they taught 100 years ago at harvard. universities have to change. challenge university presidents on point, some listen, some don't, but to say you have a difficult financial model. you're trying to revise.

college has gotten too expensive for a lot of young people. young people are in extraordinarily levels of debt. if you have a consumer market, think of education as a consumer opportunity, if you have a consumer market, that ranges between 18 and 80, why are you just going to focus that market on people between 18 and 26 or 27? i'm not discounting the substance like continuing education programs that hover around the periphery. why shouldn't the 45-year-old who decides that he or she wants to dig in and go get a ph.d., i promise it won't happen in most departments in the united states, why shouldn't that person be able to do that, excel based on their experience, intensity, and focus, and drive compete for tenure and have more productivity scholarship, more productive years of scholarship in teaching than a person in their 20's might have had two generations ago? we have to change our thinking

about institutions. again, workplaces, educational institutions. health institutions. this cuts across all of society. i hope i have answered. i have taken your question in a different direction. my point is younger people need to stay technologically proficient. older people do, too. i know young people who are engineers and computer scientists today that say five years out of school they feel like they lost their edge. you know what? they need to stay fresh and so do we. >> this has been a very informative and exciting presentation. i'd like to congratulate you on engaging all of us. my question is, life expectancy is oftentimes a function of the zip code you live in. so i would like you to comment on what are we doing to reduce that gap between those who live

in the right zip code and those who don't? and that seems to me to be a very important issue as our country becomes even more diverse than what it is today. mr. irving: it's an extraordinarily important question. your question is, what are we doing? my answer is nowhere near enough. what do we need to do? we need to ensure that we don't have food deserts in urban environments in the united states where people are shopping -- because there is no other option, at liquor stores and quick serve restaurants. as a result experiencing obesity and ultimately ending up in the pandemic we know, the pandemic of type two diabetes. smoking, we have made great strides. we live in california where relatively few -- how many people -- smokers do we have in the room?

nobody's going to answer. the good news is is we made a lot of progress. about, depending on whose numbers you believe, around 17, 18, believe it or not despite all the litigation, advertising, about 17%, 18% of american adults still smoke. in poverty communities, carl, it can be as much as 30%. that's cancer. that's heart disease. that's challenges with high blood pressure. there are things that we can do that are extraordinarily simple. i remember tomorrow friedman not too long ago runs the c.d.c., extraordinary public servant, who said if he could do one thing to change public health in the united states, what would it do? it would be to measure blood pressure. it's a two-minute process. incredibly easy. we could be embedding this in schools, shopping centers, and workplaces.

there is a lot we can do. we need to understand the stakes. we need to pay more attention to it. for those who care about communities of color, poverty communities, etc., the answers are pretty easy. for those who don't care, they should understand they care about their wallet. if they care about the public cost of public health that investment in these kinds of things, in healthy food, in safe streets where people can walk and get exercise, the impacts of exercise are just -- walking. remarkable public health impacts. if people don't live in safe neighborhoods, they can't walk. decent food, no smoking, little bit of walking, time with family. and productivity, engagements, some activity above the neck remarkable outcomes associated with that. >> how do we incentivize companies to hire people in their 60's and 70's even on a

part-time basis? many don't. many don't even look -- when they see the age, they say, sorry. mr. irving: i think, again, david, that's a product of a misunderstanding about the capacity, the capability of older adults and what older adults bring to the workplace. this is why research is so important at this stage of my life i have become incredibly data driven because i realize that i can make an impassioned plea to people who may agree with my politics, may agree with my social concerns, but unless i can demonstrate a case based on data and research, it's hard to change hearts and minds. again, as i suggested, intergenerational work forces will outperform. this is very much akin to. so work that's going on around employee health. the person who runs the robin wood foundation, another

extraordinary public servant, is in regular discussion now with people who run private equity funds. why is she in regular discussion with people who run private equity funds? because she can make the case, and she makes a compelling case, that health, good employee health is not just the right thing to do, it's a strategy. it's a competitive advantage. again improving productivity. reducing absenteeism. improving engagement. these same kinds of things exist for older workers. i think -- look, we are in the first -- or ageism, first or second inning of a nine-inning game. we are in the very early stages of it. think of this as being the early sages of the civil rights movement. by the way, the civil rights act of 1964 didn't end racism and bias. the modern women's movement. we still don't have pay

equivalence. we are in a very, very long game to change hearts and minds about aging. i think you begin to see progress. and it's something all of us need to speak about. by the way, i would say this. my friend, alan goodman, started a wonderful organization, might have heard of it, called the conversation project. conversation project is kind of a table top conversation about death. and about the inputs that people want. life planning and health choices, personal choices at the end of life. if you haven't read it, a book being mortalized. wonderful book about the end of life care and choices. but we haven't started a conversation about age. it i know we are coming to an end, or close to an end here, if i could give all of you some homework, the homework i'd like to give you is to go home to your families and friends and to your kids and have a conversation with them about what your later lives should

look like and what their later lives might look like. michael eisner, who was the chairman and c.e.o. of disney started a foundation focused on kids, now focused on kids and older adults. michael said something in a session with me not too long ago i thought was extraordinarily insightful. he said when you meet a new child, when you meet somebody's kid, you kind of get down at their level to have a conversation and you ask them whether they are interested in sports or dance or what their hobbies r oftentimes the conversation -- and oftentimes the conversation leads to the following question, what do you want to do when you grow up? michael said, it's the wrong question. he said the question should be, what do you want to do when you get old? and i just thought it was a

wonderful way to ask ourselves this question about what aging should be for each one of us and for our community and our broader society. >> one question i got for you. economically. united states is controlled by 1% of the people. and people are working 24/7 just to support a family. we are talking about sitting with the children in the house and asking them, when do they have the time to do that because they go to work at 6:00 in the morning and come back at 10:00 at night. and we have -- we are creating not leaders, just followers. mr. irving: i wish i had an easy answer. it's a discussion we could have. i will say this. it raises an important point

that's directly related to what i work on. that is for those of us the former lawyers and doctors and indian chiefs who have the luxury of doing other things in our lives, the pathways are relatively simple. for those for example involved in physical work, that may be back breaking work, the notion of continuing that work in 60's, 70's, 80's may be an impossible. that's why it's so important we democratize, lower case d, democratize this notion so that ongoing education can occur in high schools and community colleges and people can have the opportunity when they have time off, and they oftentimes don't, maybe nights, weekend, early mornings, maybe online, to learn new things. there was a question earlier about care giving. we have a massive need for caregivers. is it possible that somebody who was involved in construction

work could be involved at some later time of life in some aspect of care giving where we have incredible need? that's going to require education, transitions, etc. we have to -- we can't just have this conversation at town hall. we can't just have it at 555 south lower. we have to have this conversation in south l.a. and we have to have this conversation in communities not just across the united states but across the world. you're very right. >> last question. >> hi, do you think there would be a time where the medical community and the holistic community will ever come together? so many people who are getting older in the medical community, they are on so many pharmaceuticals, how can they have a bright mind or try to go forward in a vital way? where the doctors don't want to go -- which is age-old medicines

that has helped a lot of people, especially in l.a., and who help them live vital lives in more of a healthy way, nutrition, and herbs, yoga. is that ever going to happen? is that happening in the old retirement communities, insures wise, too? mr. irving: i get the question. i think we are seeing slow progress. at the end of the day incentives matter. the medical profession reimbursement matters, what you reimburse for matters. obamacare for the first time physicians can be reimbursed for end of life conversations. never happened before. you were 85, you had your annual check up, your doctor ran out of the office you said, doc, i want to have a conversation about what i want to do. do i want to have a do not resuscitate? but the doctor was off to his or her next appointment. today those conversations can occur reimbursed.

we now see kind of a slow, slow coming together of east and west medicine. there actually are a number of physicians who embrace very much modern western medicine and some embed some notions for example, traditional chinese medicine, and other concepts. i think as a general proposition, this notion of prevention and wellness is becoming more powerful, but we all need to talk about it again as priorities. the medical profession was trained to treat. it wasn't trained to prevent. public health officials who are wonderful are not the people who are in offices with patients every day. rather than having conversations about, which we should about diet and exercise and nutrition

and potentially health alternatives, we have conversations about cutting and slicing and all the rest because that's what we trained our doctors to do. we need to revise the medical training system. good news s. by the way, a.m.a. is actually interested in this. a.m.a. is taking this on. it's a long transition. this requires advocacy, requires discussion with one's own doctor, right? should i self-education, one of the great things about the internet is the opportunity to know a lot more about disease and about wellness. the negative thing is the internet oftentimes equally values information from the mayo clinic and from joe's health garage. if there is such a thing as joe's health garage. i don't mean to be impugning it. but you get my point. so we have to treat people to be smart consumers of health information. again, these culture change is really hard. it requires policy and practice change at the top.

it requires movement building. a change in public narrative at the bottom. that stuff doesn't happy easily. it happens over time. >> please join me in thanking mr. irving. [applause] i read that in the decade after world war ii we had something like a horse holocaust that the horses were no longser needed

and we didn't get rid of them n a very pretty way. the elevators no longer worked in new york. the electricity stopped. you couldn't charge your cell phone. you couldn't pump gas into your car because it required electricity to pump the gas. so the power of elect ristty in the internal combustion engine to make modern life possible is something that people take for granted.

>> earlier on "washington journal" we talked about the fight against isis and jihaddist terrorism. this is about an hour. washington journal continues host: we are back this morning with a roundtable discussion about the fight against isis. joining us is kurt volker, the

former ambassador to nato and the executive director director of the mccain institute for international leadership. also with us is michael breen, the ceo of the truman security project. inc. you for being here. i will ask both of you for this question. what is the significance of the terrorist attack in brussels? >> it is a human tragedy. and the continuing pain that europe and other parts of the world are experiencing -- it is an important moment for europeans and for us as well. to step back and look at how we have done since 2014, the brussels attack. how have we done with the improvements we have made to the security systems? there are still differences in

the level of security in the united states? they have a good plan. but they've only implemented about half of those. so there have been legal reforms training but that has only been done by some departments. sharing of the information, particularly what they collect about airline passengers. eurozone, europe is only as strong as the weakest link. there are a lot of phone our abilities and it is a good time for european leaders to bring everybody to the table to try to broker a compromise as quickly as they can. the deadlock is not serving them well. kurt: it is clear that isis is intent on attacking europe. that is one observation. that means if we don't deal with this soon, we will have a friend in europe. these things are connected.

the islamic state in syria the front in europe. the second thing is, as michael was saying, europe has not done a good job on getting a handle on the disenfranchised radicalized situation in the eu. i think they need to come to the realization that they need to have a more secure footing when dealing with isis. host: i want to share a couple of headlines to the point that you are making. specifically, the issue of open borders in europe and dealing with what is happening in syria. the wall street journal -- suicide bomber. one of these bombers was caught at the border in turkey. they say they have got the guy and they say, he has no direct connection to isis. he just has a criminal record and turkey lets them go.

and inside the wall street journal, the brussels bombings as itccelerated u.s. blows off the last remaining stage route for the third fair for militants who carried out the deadly attacks. there is a connection between syria and the groups in europe. they are a disfranchised community. they will create even more disenfranchised communities. i don't buy the line that there is one route out of syria and it is called turkey. there are plenty of ways that they can get out. and isis will not be deterred. host: what do you think? michael: i think that is clear. it is absolutely clear. pass out.o one as we analyze this, we have to be thinking about, dealing with the refugee crisis in a way that

is -- if you have seen the level of description -- of destruction that we have seen, rubble -- these refugees have nowhere to go. i was recently in jordan and it is a refugee camp. it is a humanitarian crisis on a scale that we haven't seen since the second world war. and it is mostly women and children fleeing destruction. isis is a predator on that human misery and they will continue to do that. especially in europe. we have to be thinking much more long-term, unfortunately, about how to deal with the masses, the scale of the refugee crisis, and confront that. because what we end up with is a bunch of refugee camps where kids have been out of school for

10 years. there is no prospect for your children to have a better life. we are creating a situation in which isis can have an easier time radicalizing communities. host: what about the recently struck deal between europe and turkey. does that help? michael: i don't know how much it helps. to me, we are looking at the margins. i think the europeans are in a difficult position as far as the policy perspective and from a human perspective. what is calledt for, whatever else we are going to do in syria and iraq, we have to leave the world in confronting the scale of the crisis and making sure that we don't waste a generation in the middle east and we don't hand

the initiative to isis by putting millions of people in a hopeless situation. host: so you are saying we have to deal with the situation in iraq? kurt: we do. it gives them hard national security regions. ais crisis is creating situation in the middle east. it is turning into a conflict across the whole region. russia is exploiting and strengthening its role in the mediterranean. whenever we need to do something, it is our european allies who come with us. we're seeing them put up orders in set the eu for the first time. chances of a british exit vote are going up. merkel, that is going down. it is really cracking right now. host: what is your prescription

for dealing with this? kurt: dealing with isis in syria and iraq. i don't think the strategy of airstrikes and minimal support to opposition groups is sufficient. i think we have to have a robust u.s. military commitment to the crisis itself. to try to negotiate this. the russians are in their supporting president assad, that is just going to make the crisis bigger because they are the ones fighting these refugees out. putin sayse vladimir something, we don't have to believe it. russia fully intends to keep aces in syria. air bases and ground basis. what we're talking about is the amount of russian fighters that are contributing to the syrian fighting effort. if they're successful in encouraging the government to continue the momentum, russia

can't afford to back off a little bit. host: washington times notes this this morning. 6.5 billionore than dollars, but mr. obama said a wider bombing campaign quickly to more terrorist attacks like those in brussels. i want to get your reaction to that. michael: i think there are hard-nosed security reasons for dealing with the underlying causes. i'm skeptical of russian claims that they have withdrawn, just russianskeptical of claims that they have not targeted civilians. they have. so i think we need to watch their actions. i am a little bit more optimistic -- i wouldn't say optimistic, but i see a necessity for the negotiations. ultimately, it is a hard road

and it is hard to see how we get there but ultimately, this is over when there is a future in that region of the world in the hands of its people. that is a long road to get there. that takes american leadership on every front. but i would say, as you are talking about domestic politics earlier, the fundamental underpinnings of the world -- people are being questioned on their domestic politics with our allies in europe, in a way that i have never experienced. and i think this is really worthy of our full attention. the underpinnings of political word -- political world order need to be addressed. the benefits are therefore for every single american to experience. the piece that we enjoy, the

certainty that when i put my daughter to bed, things will be ok in the morning. these are things that we have gotten from our country. but there are alliances and practices that support that reality. and i think it is time for us to take stewardship of that before we have missed it. host: i want to tell our viewers, that you have served. combat assignments in iraq and afghanistan from 2002-2006. do you agree with the president, that if we step up combat against isis, we are looking at more terrorist attacks? kurt: if we increase bombings, we will have more terrorist attacks -- we need to set a serious goal of eliminating isis and we are going to meet arab allies to do that. that is not something we can do

alone. he set a clear goal, bombing may be part of that. we will need ground forces and we will need a clear goal and economic numbers. people have to -- we will need to uncover the dangers of the regime. host: let's get the calls. bill, in norfolk, connecticut. .aller: thank you for c-span my problem is i think in order to beat isis to straighten this country out, we need a complete overhaul of our government and stop applying political generals -- appointing political generals. roosevelt would roll over in his grave if they -- if

he saw all of these dummies running this country. we don't need anymore summering to be isis. we don't need any more of those million lamp$40 that not all those power lines down. these congressmen only goes to congress just to bring military and they don't really seem to care about anything. inare never going to win donald trump is our only answer. host: let's go to valerie. hi, i hope you can hear me, i am on my cell phone and i just did a 12 hours shift. i tried to get in on the other subject, but i agree with everything that the republican said instead of the part about donald trump.

have are going to republican, i hope it is donald trump. how can you think that the whole fightcan get together and a small group -- it is really the idea, it is not a group of people. you can't kill the ideal. they want freedom just like we do. i think those people in the want russia and everyone to pull out so they can solve their own problems. host: ok, valerie. think what bill questions is a good answer. it americans have a right to ask.

a lot of blood envoy treasure spent. what effects have we seen for all the force put in? that raises an important question of our strategy and we changed it a lot. number two, do we need to focus on modernizing our national security capabilities? that is not just the military, that is our intelligence, the way we leverage democracy and economic development, and i think we need to rethink our strategy. i will say i have to respond to the donald trump thing. in national security conversation about terrorists that is merged with a dark street of politics that go back

a long way. should i fear my neighbor because their name is different from mine? there got is different from mine? their god is different from my? ine? donald trump is on the other side. host: in the paper yesterday they were making a comparison .etween the fires from syria very few can united states. the reason the papers were talking about the cultural integration of muslims in our country versus those in belgium, but all across europe. do you agree?

basies.hey have support there are disenfranchised muslim communities in europe in ways we do not have here. we have more integrated muslims in our society. that is true. there are basic reasons for this, which is intelligence and policing and the distance we have from the conflict. it is hard to get here both geographically and of our security measures where we are much more on a war footing. valerie makes a good point about the influence of outside powers in the middle east. we have to remember that there is a homegrown violent ideology in the middle east that is targeting other muslims in the region and parting us. i don't think the muslims in the region can handle it alone. i think they do need our help in

attacking isis and going after these extremist. host: glenda, savannah, georgia. you are next. caller: hi. it seems like everyone is surprised, but when president bush declared war on terror, the battleground moved and the germans were saying, please don't do this, these young men are going to come back with all are goingkills and we to reach the horror of the hisls, and saddam kept finger on the --. we are always going to be fighting because the idea of fighting -- the ideal like that lady said, terror is amazing.

let's have ambassador that one.e guest: they are trying to go after us in new york, boston, washington d.c., our shopping ands -- we can't sit by cebu will do nothing about it. we do have to go after the terrorists, there i ideology -- their ideology. they do not represent the majority of muslim opinion and the people in the middle east. very a small minority, but dangerous. we can't just sit by and let them attack. nika play role does in this? this?o play in

guest: take one example -- in afghanistan, we remove the taliban to go after osama bin laden. along that came nato to try to stabilize afghanistan, a decade worth of effort. in bosnia and kosovo, we get about 50% -- 15%. importantly, we get a lot out of the fact that europe is a secure place that shares our value and contribute to common efforts in the world. if europe is in trouble as it is today, that is going to rebound back to the united states. host: we have an obligation. guest: we also have an interest.

both. host: after what we saw in paris and now in belgium, these our nato allies under article five. are they at war, or do we need to respond? guest: you are now getting into technical territory. i apologize for getting -- giving a technical answer. that is an attack on one is an attack on all. cross-border land invasion with tanks -- if it is a terrorist attack, it is less on aus if it is an attack country, or an incident. after 9/11, we agreed to invoke article five as an attack on the united states. our allies agreed to that. that was the basis of are going to afghanistan together. european allies have not gone to nato, not have invoked article five as a response to terrorist attacks in europe. the are more reluctant to think

in terms of a military response to what they see as a police challenge. they see that as a national and eu effort. they may want more u.s. support. there is a degree of pride in europe about wanting to solve problems without us. at the same time, we see these incidents escalating. host: i am going to give you the next call mr. breen. amin, go ahead. caller: i am an american muslim and a vietnam that -- vietnam veteran. when i look at the refugees coming from syria, i see a lot of women and children and i can can't the that -- why muslim men of syria go to saudi arabia, go to jordan, go to places right there close to their home, be trained to fight,

and then come back and help the other people who are helping them? i don't understand my saudi arabia and all the other countries that we have given aid years, whyuries and don't they play more of a role in helping us to defeat isis? how do they expect is way over here in the united states to accomplish something that they can't seem to accomplish in their backyard? host: michael breen? guest: first of all, thank you for your service and i think it is a good opportunity -- more muslims have given their lives by a fair margin than anybody else in the fight against extremist groups and terrorists. i have had the privilege of knowing and serving with them. that gets lost in our conversation, but very many of dom are doing what they can to hold the line against isis. we can't forget that.

many of them have been our friends for quite some time. this does raise the question of the region's response and i think it comes down to this -- my saudi arabia and other powers in the region are more interested in continuing a proxy war with iran and syria. interested than ending the fight. anything we do, it can be as integrated as you want it to be. if there is no plan to govern syria, that is plausible, we end up in a very difficult situation trying to impose order on a region, which did not go so well the first time we tried it back in 2003. this process of putting the region back in the hands of the people who live there is critical. it does tend on their willing to fight for that.

i don't think that will enough willingnesshink the is lacking. no one wants to join a military force that has no opportunity to win, no training, note equipment . i would like the united states take a much more leaning approach. there has to be a flag you can rally under. we can do something, but the region has to do that, too. clinton proposed intensified airstrikes. and greater efforts to apprehend those who enable islamic states. can you govolker, back in time to heal the divisions between sunnis and shiites and all these different ts the don't trust united states is on their side? is too late.ia, it

we could have done it for years ago, but not today. the best we can hope for is that we get stable lines of control. you will have a sunni area in the north end of east and a kurdish area. if you can have lines of control that stabilize, then you have a purpose of negotiating. have, the beginning of a solution. the idea that you are going to have one government in syria to encourage all working together, i don't see it. hascially since the sod strengthened in the area. nashville,, republican. caller: i was just wondering, why can't we just blast them

right off the map? i remember desert storm, you know, we went over there and we did our business over there and we give the money to rebuild. why did we give money to rebuild the city after we go and bomb them? guest: of course, we could put a couple of arma on the ground and roll through. he did not take as long in 2003 to get to baghdad. the next 10 years were harder than the first month. that is the question. and groups like that, they come to a place where people do not have basic services and the present themselves as the only alternative. they do it brutally and in no anyone i know would consent

to live that way. in thevery deep believer american values we bring to that question. the question is how do you get there in this region? star.as to be our guiding nothing else has worked. guest: i agree. i would come back to the question and say, he has a good point. we should go in and rollover isis first. we have all these difcult challenges. no doubt about it. even with what hillary clinton just said, those are good steps, but is that going to do it? i don't think so. this this is the headline morning out of the middle east, syrian forces fight islamic state at the gate upon myra. -- plamyra. of the you make

, archaeology, artifacts? what is happening in this country? guest: i spent some time in syria record for the war. tragedy for everybody. there is no doubt about it. the culture, the history, i mean, i think we are going to look back on this period is probably the most in tragic in the last five to 10 years. question is where do we go from here? think -- there for humancompeting

life, one is isis' view, one is and ithoritarian view, reject that. then there is the third view, the view of united states has championed. that, in my experience, is what most syrians want. andou go to a refugee camp talk to serious, you know what they want to do? they want to send their kids to college. they are living in tents and they are upset about the lack of graduate opportunities for their kids. these are people who have the same kind of concerns i grew up with in a middle-class household. they want to go back to syria and's in their kids to college. how do we provide that for them? there is a long way to go here. is, it is a bit

of a chicken and egg question. that is a real debate. my own view, which i have reservations about this view, trying to wait until the fight stabilizes before you start negotiations is to to three years of work. have ayou have to balance of forces first. want to come to your point about the cultural issues. we do have a major humanitarian crisis. whathas to be the focus of we think about. it is important to understand why isis is destroying cultural artifacts. because it proves them wrong.

their claim is that the legitimacy is based on their ideology and their system of governance. the fact that there is in error territory in muslim territory, successful history that treating mohammed is a threat to their ideology. so they are methodically trying to eliminate anything other than what they can show as a validity of their own ideology. guests arewo referring to our negotiations dealome sort of peace right now in syria. that is where the secretary of state is, in moscow talking to the russians president and foreign minister to discuss the placee truce that is in that will spark you in brokered peace talks. jersey,stfield, new independent. caller: good morning. i just want to ask the acid or his opinion of what

globalization has done for our country. abouther gentleman talked nato, but our founding fathers were nativist. what it has gotten into is where we are bankrupt and hated throughout the world. talk about the origin of isis. bush made it was saudi arabia for a long lease for oil and they would put holy troops -- they would put military troops in the holy land of saudi arabia. we had invaded countries where our infrastructure is destroyed. donald trump is on the right track. host: i will have the ambassador respond. globalization is the question you brought up initially. there is dark sides to globalization.

there is the ease in which terrorists can communicate and their ability to blow up things. it has led to a movement of jobs and shifting of economic power. there is also some positive benefits as well. livingng the standard of for the western world. -endoved into higher industries and been very successful. you kind of have both, yet internet, information, communication, travel -- it is a mixed bag. -- the secondng addresshe way i would your question, i understand what you are saying about fortress america and pulling back and reinvested in our own society, but the problem is that the rest

of the world does not stop. the rest of the world continues to find ways to go after us and to pursue their interest and -- their interest at our expense. we are the number one target of everyone else because we are the weakest and best thing around. atcannot just sit back expect things to stay as they are. if we do that, they will get worse. host: barbara, baltimore, democrat, good morning. guest: pretty much a generalization. i would like to commend you on this program. i am a black retired teacher and i am a democrat and i go along a lot with what donald trump says. you immediately say i am not a fan of donald trump, that should not be necessary because i think a lot of the younger people now, the reasoning is not there because we have gangs we are

dealing with. neighborhoods, you have problems there that i hate , but i in an analogy think we are giving too much information. i heard donald trump and another person on terrorism make the comment that we are talking about it to specifically. because if you have a plan against the enemy, not only do you have a plan, but you have a plan against someone who has no fear. michael breen? host: perhaps belgium would not have happened if one of the people would have been tortured? guest: my organization released stronglyetter condemning the idea of torture by americans. it does not work. it is not who we are. to us and as damaging

are men and women as it is to the enemy. don't kid yourself, terrorists have as much fear as anyone else. experienceenough with them as anyone else. we do not have to resort to these kinds of methods to win the second world war. i don't think it's time to turn to this now. it is an effective. it does not work. that is a clear consensus of most experts. host: let's talk about the size of the movement in europe because the front page of the financial times this morning -- the police going to the brussels bombers to the november assault in paris. saide's prime minister many were being hunted.

journal"e "wall street in a raid that lasted more than two hours, investigators found 33 pounds of explosives, 40 gallons of acetone, and a suitcase filled of bolts. what is your dealing with -- andt: organized, trained, funded. it is multiple cells of jihadists. people who have grown up in these communities in europe and and beenalized -- radicalized. there are people from syria and isis on missions to europe to go create terror cells and create terrorist attacks in western europe. it is a war. host: jennifer, you are next in new york, a republican. good morning to you. caller: good morning. for a person who sits back end

why watch as each and every day, the americans speak the way that they do, the politicians speak as foolish as they do. this is an ideology you will never beat. muslim must announce that religion. that is number one. number 2 -- keep them out of our country. sure up the borders. number four -- what are you doing about the airports with bomb-sniffing dogs? police are unprotected. the amount of people that will now rise up because secretively, these muslims believe they are a game. this is a religion that calls to murder. get rid of it! the announce it!

host: we had a number of islamic clerics and muslims come whather and denounce happened in belgium and also call on americans do not attack them all. michael breen? guest: i agree. you should ask the muslims buried in arlington what they think quite frankly. this is a country founded on the toa that if you subscribe the set of values and willing to sacrifice, no matter where you were born, no matter what god you pray to, we are all americans tend when we stand equal. americans, we stand equal. we are taking a step back here. one of the reasons -- in order to carry out the kind of attacks we have seen in europe, you need a supporting network of people to help you do that. a sickly a committee that

supports -- basically a community that support itself. americans who made the decision to go to syria and 20 terrorist organization. robust much more security procedures in place, but much more importantly, is the strength of our values. that is our best defense. there is no amount of law enforcement you can put into place. people fight for this country because they believe in it. our front line of defense are our local communities. when people called to ban one of the biggest religion from our shores, we have to be brave to say this is the land of the free. host: what she said is a perspective and perspective is a

reality, are americans who believe like that you are does, caring enough from arab leaders? guest: no. that is an issue from what they hear based on what is broadcast and what information is out there. i will give you an example. let me make a couple points. one of them is that more muslims have been killed by isis than anybody else. they kill muslims. [laughter] second, muslims know this and they hate us. they want to do something about it. ,e have countries in the region saudi arabia, uae, qatar, jordan, lebanon, turkey, and iraq all determined to go after isis. a muslim countries. all muslim countries. they are trying to do that. --example i want to give isis captured a jordanian

highland, put him in a cage, and burn him alive. find a single person sympathetic to isis after that. a muslim king goes on bombing runs himself. it is not the case to say all muslims support isis. and islam is a religion we cannot work with. it is an extremist version of islam, that has to be taken out and we need the rest of the muslim community to help us do it. matt.that's go to caller: good morning. thank you for your two guess. this is a very important discussion. i have a brother who came home from deployment. he has been deployed nine times in the last 10 years.

i spoke with him very clearly about a lot of things we were together. one of the things i kept hearing from him what the american people are not knowledgeable about what we are doing. wehad one person that says talk too much, we talk not enough. one of the things that would help united states in its fight is what happened after 9/11 would happen again if the country would come together, stand behind our troops, an d our congress. they have avoided this for 18 months. my brother told me that the jordanian people of america. maybe he is wrong. maybe he had a misconception. thefor a man who defends freedoms of our country, i think he might be on the right track. our propaganda, hate speech, it

is just unbelievable. host: michael breen was justin jordan. guest: i have to strongly agree with your brother. we thank him for everything he is doing. i grew up in new hampshire, so it is great to hear good since coming from new hampshire -- from concord. got to visitly with our fighter pilots. they believe deeply in what they are doing. we are not sharing that effectively as we could be doing with the american people. you are right. this is a region that really does want united states to be its best self and put its best foot forward. dan, a democrat. good morning to you. caller: thank you. i have a question for mr. breen. and for mr. volker.

the disparity between european muslims and american muslims -- isn't it the truth that american muslims just do a whole lot better economically than the people in europe? breen, this area just seems to be alive with weapons. where do these weapons come from? thank you. host: a couple of questions. guest: muslims in the united states have partly come with high education and high skilled and been able to work successfully. partly, our society is more and they, more diverse have enabled to prosper here. in europe, it has been the opposite. income,ucated, lower unskilled workers. they have larger communities that are isolated. societies themselves are less

flexible, less dynamic, harder to integrate these communities into european societies because of the cultural differences. that has continued and perpetuated these disenfranchised communities. host: the jihadist fighters, of a young, male, unemployed? guest: yes, yes, yes. [laughter] still very disenfranchised societies. you will have new citizens that grew up there, people who are coming as soldiers out of syria to fight with jihad against europe. you got all stripes there. you talked about numbers and scale -- the scale here is extraordinary. we are talking millions and millions of people, not just a few hundred thousand. you talk about the number of

refugees in germany got up, in the last year, that a number of young men in germany as a silent seekers and refugees greater than the size of the western and eastern militaries during the cold war. that is big. host: mr. breen, the weapons? guest: the short answer is everywhere. this is an area of the world that has a lot of military hardware piled up in it. some cases, the military hardware has in that up in hands we did not want it to. there are lesser flows of chinese weapons. countries that purchased the weapons and distribute them. , dependingcivil war on how you account them between three and six different sizes, are pumping tremendous weapons and fighters in training into the fight.

russia now has ground troops. that creates an escalation. it makes it hard for the fight to stabilize unless we meet an agreement. easier said than done. what for the russians and iranians do. it is pretty difficult to ramp whenlevel of violence down you have the sheer numbers of weapons and firepower. host: cheryl, you are on the air. caller: i would like to make a comment. we are our own worst enemy. we have been buying oil from the middle east for centuries. this is the reason why isis and the taliban are so strong especially after the world trade center, we should have stopped buying gas and oil from the middle east. for the percent of that money -- 40% of that money is going into

the hands of the taliban. with the refugees coming into the country, who lost isis and who does not? they do not come with her certificates. account 7mething on -- a couple of months ago, they said there were two people who came over on one of these visas teaching them how to fly air force planes to protect their country and the disappeared and never heard anything on the news again. where are these guys? you have to know about this. thank you. [laughter] guest: sorry to disappoint you, but i don't know about that. -- first question was host: i am blanking as well. ray in texas. ray, one second.

now, i firmly believe the u.s. should do everything possible to invest in our supplies of energy and we should be having bit of -- we should be having their recalls of energy. that moneyot mean will stop flowing to the middle east because we have global energy markets. -- others will be buying iranian gas. that is just the way it is going to be. for the united states, i do believe it is important for us to invest in our own energy. guest: it is a great case for renewable energy, if you ask me. [laughter] guest: it is important, we talk about this massive problem, it is important to talk about how different the situation in the united states is.

the most embedded human being that gives off an airplane, anywhere they come, they are a refugee. most robust system we have for anyone who arrives in the united states. there are a little over 2000 syrians who came as refugees from the united states. 3% were males between the ages of 15 years old and 50 years old. the vast majority are women, children, and orphans. this is different than people showing up in an uncontrolled flow. easy to going to a hysterical fear of refugees. 97% of them are women and

children. system for at national coming into united states. host: ok, ray is next. hi there, ray. caller: good morning, i would like to say, fascinating discussion. it indicates why a simple response from our group of presidential people that are running for president is just so incorrect for them to do so. , want to comment on the fact why is no one talking about the fact that our current president has done a pretty good darn job keeping us safe domestically? thank you. ray, i apologize for cutting you off earlier. [laughter] that you are right that these issues cannot be dealt with in soundbites. there are a lot of complex

dynamics and you really have to think about it. i think we have good people on both sides of the aisle, republicans, democrats. unfortunately, that is not what gets filtered through the media. through the media filter, we are looking for these 10 second sound bite and you can get to the heart of the issues that way. in terms of our situation in the world, i think you make a good point when you look at the degree to which we have had attacks in united states. we have only had a few. we have san bernardino, fort hood, boston bombing and several other attempts. our law enforcement and intelligence is still on what i would describe as a war footing. focused on thely fact that people are trying to attack us and doing everything they can to prevent that from happening and done a pretty good job. host: the wall street journal --

the muted reaction is by design and they said a ghost his believe that overreacting to a terrorist attack, elevates extremists groups in a way that exaggerate their influence. terrorism is overstated and the focus of it can become self paralyzing. buddy in texas, independent. good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead, sir. question or comment? caller: you have to understand that mohammed was the bigger murderer in hitler. they believe that he is one of the saints that wrote the koran. is killing koran nonbelievers. host: buddy, have you read the

koran? caller: yes, i have read a lot of it. it was converted to english. that theot to believe , the are thent ones that are radicalized. the ones doing the killing are the ones who believe in the koran. host: let your little bit about that with michael breen. most of the people being killed by these groups are muslim. most of these people fighting the terrorists are muslim. there are thousands android thousands of muslims doing this right now as we are talking. andhere are thousands thousands of muslims doing this right now as we are talking. , frankly, i think

a world where it is muslims against everybody else, that is the world that isis is working hard to create. this is what they want. this is what bin laden wanted. to create that hardline division. insist that most groups are killing people to make the choice. interesthy isis has an of creating fear of the u.s. and europe to help refugees. i don't know anybody who wants to live that way. we've got to offer them a third choice. the strength of that third choice -- the attacks in the united states were mostly lone

wolf. there are no networks in american communities that support mass casualty attacks. they don't exist in united states because american communities reject that entirely whether they are american muslims or christians. guest: i want to point out that with allies that are muslim turkey, they are not on a rampage killing us or others. albania, same thing. we have indonesia, the largest muslim population country in the world. rampaget on a religious going around killing people. i just am mechanically the religion with violence in a direct way such as people have tried to do. it is not the case.

it is the case that there are extremists terrorists, radicals awful people who are doing things in the name of islam. they need to be stopped. we need to go after them relentlessly. theyed to recognize that are also targeting muslims. muslims are also against them. we need to build that coalition. host: there is so much more to talk about. unfortunately, our time is up. ambassador volker and michael breen, decorated army captain. he is the president and bookshours of nonfiction all begin. here are programs to watch for. this weekend, join us for the

22nd annual virginia festival of the book in charlottesville starting sunday at noon in eastern. the book, "the man who stopped einstein -- einstein." and thehe firebrand first lady." it discovers the relationship between a civil rights activist and first lady eleanor roosevelt . atricia scott speaks roosevelt house in new york city. on sunday, beginning at 1:30 eastern, more from the virginia festival of the book, including george carlin's daughter who discusses her life growing up with the comedian in her book, a carlin home companion."

"breakthrough," by nancy cohen. for a woman to be at the head of the most powerful country in ce world, when one of our key allies to alow women to simplynd isis is executing women and girls for simply being women and girls, i i think itsense of -- sends a powerful message from the bulatovic. journalistsssian discussed the russian media under vladimir putin. then, michael hayden on u.s.

intelligence and national security. the transpacific partnership agreement, and its potential impact on the best economy was the meeting of u.s. military customers. signed, and currently awaits u.s. approval. representatives from the chamber of commerce and national farmers union took part in the discussion. this is about 30 minutes. >> the next panel is going to talk about the tpp, the transpacific partnership, which , in both campaigns for president, and both parties, there has been a lot of discussion about it. time -- are behind on

i'm going to sit down there and go like that. with our largest business association, the chamber of commerce will be first. [applause] >> i'm pleased to be here today to share a few observations about what we think about the transpacific partnership. on behalf of 3 million small and medium-sized companies and also local chambers of commerce. the u.s. chamber of commerce is a strong supporter of the

transpacific partnership. we believe it is vital to the commercial and economic interests. tpp is critical because economic growth and job creation at home depend on our ability to be able to sell american goods and services abroad. after all, 9 95% of consumers live outside the borders of america. the 12 tpp countries create a high standard, comprehensive trading zone that makes up about 80 million consumers and represents nearly 40% of global gdp. why does trade matter to our country? we believe simply because it comes down to jobs. american jobs. already one in four manufacturing jobs depends on exports. one in three acres of american farms are planted for consumers

overseas. all told, nearly 40 million american jobs depend on exports. these numbers could be even higher, but unfortunately, the playing field for trait is not always level. as somebody who spends 20 years of my career working in asia, it really is not level in asia. market isu.s. normally open, our exports face high tariffs and often a thicket barriers.ff no one wants to go into bosco gave during march madness down by a dozen points from the starting tipoff. that is what our farmers, businesses, and service providers face every day. these areas are particularly areensome -- barriers particularly burdensome for the small business owners. does a greateement

job leveling the playing field. it includes exports for new and better jobs. i will be passing out a report at the end. some of the highlights th said that, for america, trade partners make up only 6% of the population. those trade partners, they b uy nearly half of all of our exports. these agreements have a proven ability to make big markets even out of small economies. exports have grown by an average annual 18% during the first five years the agreement entered into force. increased trade supports 5

million american jobs. jobs in your state. also payated jobs well. for instance, manufacturing jobs pay wages the average 18% higher than those that are not. the trade balance is a poor measure of whether or not a trade agreement is working. we often hear opponents that deficits.cause from my perspective, nothing .ould be further from the truth in particular, five of the 11 partners that we negotiated with, we don't already have ta's with. this will be an agreement with

japan, one that we have not had an agreement with. malaysia, and others. we don't have agreements with these. it is critical that we open these markets. nations around the pacific have not been standing still while we have been negotiating. they have been clinching their own trade agreements. trade agreements, by definition, are preferential, which means that only the parties in the agreement benefits. i want to give you one example. 15, 2016, guest raleigh-japan fta -- the intoalia-japan fta went full suppol force. in the year that it has been in place, frozen shrimp exports, of

up 90%. this is because australian services have a competitive advantage in japan. for example, today, the japan beef tariff is 35.5%. australia-japan agreed to at, they bigger tariff. suddenly, australian beef is more competitive. our cow men are losing every day. tpp also addresses 21st century generation issues. for the first time, the sanitary chapter is enforceable operations which go beyond the wto chapters. for the first time, there is a chapter dedicated to small and medium-sized companies. for the first time in any

agreement, there are binding provisions which help to ensure the free flow of trade. also, for the first time in any u.s. agreement, there is a chapter specifically designed for state owned enterprises. also, for the first time in any agreement, a provision that requires the country to criminalize trade secret theft. providesat tpp also manufacturers with increased .pportunities to increase sales they are eliminating or reducing barriers across countries with strong outcomes undisciplined barrierslocal content and discourage toy areas. something i hear about every day. tpp cents the strongest rules to date on prohibiting restrictions

on the movement of data and localization of i.t. infrastructure. an important issue for large companies, but more more for the companies using the cloud to sell globally through internet storefronts. tpp also says strong i.t. roles, particularly with respect to the status quo. that is important to our members to help against foreign that and counterfeiting. one of the things i learned living and working in asia -- america, we tend to