live coverage begins tuesday night at 9:00 eastern. taking you on the road to the white house on c-span, c-span radio, and c-span.org. they have endorsed the primary for ted cruz and is spending $1 million on ads in the state against donald trump. thank you for being with us this week. mr. mcintosh: my pleasure. susan: ms. morrongiello and mr. hohmann. as we get started, people looking at your twitter feed will see many references to making the wisconsin primary donald trump's waterloo essentially. why are you thinking about it like that?

mr. mcintosh: this could be the primary which projecting forward -- he lost one state but clearly has over momentum. ted cruz beating him in wisconsin shows that when you get down to essentially the two-person race, he does not win. also that cruz can win outside of the south. a northern industrial state, not a red state, but rather one that has voted democratic in several recent presidential races. if that happens, it is a shift of where republicans are. you can think of a lot of different explanations for it. we like to take credit and say club for growth as educated him about not being a conservative and a smart thing to do is vote for ted cruz, but i also think voters are kind of maturing. early, it was i am at washington.

i think things are on the wrong track. i will send a message. now they are thinking we still want to send a message and i think ted cruz does that for them, but others are saying wait a second. this could be real. what does it mean? republicans are looking at that and saying poll after poll shows he would lose to hillary clinton. a good lose the senate, and with that, the supreme court. i think a lot rides on this election. you have a lot that will be influenced by the outcome. mr. hohmann: let us talk about the upcoming primaries. it is favorable to donald trump after wisconsin. new york is in two weeks, his home state. can you talk us through the post wisconsin plans for the club. mr. mcintosh: new york is next and then several east coast states the week after that. we were looking at new york to

develop our strategy. i think the margin there is so large you have to concede donald trump is likely to win, but keeping him below 50% at that point, ted cruz and john kasich can pick up different congressional districts and win the delegates there. essentially now, we are in the delegates phase. donald trump is in the lead. ted cruz is on his heels. john kasich is are behind. mr. hohmann: when you anticipate you will spend some money in new york? mr. mcintosh: how much where and how to do it. we are mapping all the way through california, the end of the primary. that is a big huge important

state. it is the winner take all at large for the statewide tally and congressional this, but indiana, my home state, is along the way, where donald trump has had a lead in the past. polling this week shows he and ted cruz are net in the. susan: can you tell us why the club for growth does not like the donald trump candidacy? mr. mcintosh: i like you. we look at all of the candidates, the major ones this cycle, on a five to 10 page paper on the economic records. that is our set of issues. where are they on taxes, government spending, regulation, free-trade, school choice? many candidates had sterling records. ted cruz, marco rubio, ron paul were on top.

donald trump has not voted on things, but for 20 years, he has spoken out on a lot of policy matters. he propose that one point the largest tax increase ever to pay down the debt. he tried to walk that debt but even recently, he said in the right to stances, i would do that all over again. he is for government run health care. he does not respect private property rights because he is for imminent domain abuse. he will take property from a homeowner and turn it into development. people have the the rights to the home and they land they live in. we realize you would be a disaster on free market economic policies. in the past, we have been advertising to tell people about that. now that is well known.

also he would lose the republican party to hillary. he could have terrible to get results. it is a policy question. ms. morrongiello: after hearing those reasons, i hate to entertain the scenario, but looking into the general election, if donald trump becomes the nominee, would club for growth consider backing a third-party alternative or solely focus on senate in congressional races? mr. mcintosh: realistically, we would be focusing on senate and house races. that is what we do cycle after cycle. we don't feel obliged to get into every race. presidential race is the person we have done it because so much is at stake. if donald trump the nominee, we will focus back on our state and

house. we have a lot of great candidates identifying and i in -- i am anxious to get back to get them elected. mr. mcintosh: we were the earliest. we were back in september saying he should not get the nomination. we had ads to point out he is not a conservative. we watched the results and it was a sad night. we cut the lead in half with a very good ad in south carolina. had we started a week earlier, maybe we could have taking it the whole way, but our record shows we have been the first and many times the only group out there on the conservative

spectrum. we still believe it. i share with a lot of the other people who are now working to see someone else besides donald trump, with it is ted cruz or john kasich. would think it is so important we will work with somebody. any information you know, we are not out there to get credit for this. we want to get the job done. ms. morrongiello: do you feel that it had other organizations, other conservative organizations like heritage action, had they jumped in and launched their offensive as early as you have, do you think that would have had a more significant impact on stopping donald trump from getting as far as he has? mr. mcintosh: i think the

conservative groups have actually done a good job. you saw them come together in the national review piece early on. if anything that i wish we could have done earlier, some of the super pacs, had taken him more seriously early on, we could have seen a different result in the primary. i don't criticize them on that. they have a lot of things to think about. how to promote their own preferred candidate being the first thing on their mind. looking back, i think what has happened is donald trump has been a really successful person who has channeled the anger that a lot of americans feel toward washington right now. i get the anger. we are frustrated at the club. we disagree fundamentally with a lot of president obama's policies. we have been pushing the house and senate republicans to do more to fight and stand up for that. i get where they are coming from. they feel like the system is broken. they have been losing ground. they want somebody to shake it up. our point to them is trump is not the guy. he is a showman. his record shows he will be just

as bad or worse for the guys that have invested in washington so far. mr. hohmann: you said you want to get the job done and you mentioned john kasich. do you see him as a spoiler were maybe prevents donald trump from getting to 50? mr. mcintosh: you asked a really good question. on his record, he does not have as good a record as ted cruz. he has increased spending in his state enormously. tactically, there may be some states where he can win the primaries like he did in ohio, i think that will be important to have happen. used to look at it and say if it were just a two-person race, it would be easier because donald trump never gets over 50%, but that is not my choice. that is his choice what to do. i realize you have to play with the cards you are dealt. ms. morrongiello: mr. trump has taken to criticizing you. susan: mr. drum has taken to criticizing you. -- mr. trump has taken to

criticizing it. have you gotten any kickback from supporters? mr. mcintosh: the phones light up. his supporters tweet us or e-mail us or make calls. usually very obnoxious. a lot of profanity. ok, that will happen. move on. i have a very good polite and professional staff, and i thank them for being on the front lines for that. that is part of his style is if you do not go along with him, turn and be aggressive. we have seen some cases it looks like he is almost inciting violence or talking about the possibility of it. that is way out of the

acceptable in american political discourse. we go to battles by, voting at the ballot box not riots in the street. ms. morrongiello: have you gotten any kickback for club for growth members or donors who may see donald trump in a different light and are uncomfortable with this unwavering position against him? mr. mcintosh: we have a diverse set of donors. some have told me they think trump is on the right track and they want to support him. i listen to them. they are our members, and we take them seriously. most of them have said keep going. we think it is the right thing to do, and i take heart in that. the club has 100,000 members around the country. 20,000 of them give to our candidates. typically a summary says we don't like what you are doing for donald trump, i thought that we have not given up on the senate and house races. i hope you will support our candidates there. we agree to disagree but find common ground on a different project.

ms. morrongiello: about the senate senate and congressional races you organization has been in ultimate and will continue to work on, are there any you are particularly worried about or you think are being overhyped in terms of how competitive the race is? mr. mcintosh: let's talk about a couple of them. one is coming up in the primary on the democratic side in pennsylvania two weeks away. we don't know who will come out of that primary. he has the lead right now, but we anticipate that will narrow. we worried if donald trump loses pennsylvania by 10%, there would have to be 10% of the voters was split the ticket and vote for pat. we look at florida. we have a great candidate.

i think he will win the primary. again, if florida goes against us in the fall, it will be hard for him to defeat the democratic candidate there. indiana, my home state, will probably be decided by the primary. we are for marlin stutzman. he is a reformer. wisconsin, johnson is there. we were early last year supporting him. he has had a tougher time. he has been behind in the polls. he has narrowed the gap and is doing a good job, but again, if wisconsin was heavily democratic for the presidential race, it all the more hard for him to catch up. mr. hohmann: you have been conservative and in the movement for a couple decades. you mentioned the philosophical reasons you are against donald trump. you outline them in messaging

from advertising perspective that is not the most effective. focus groups and polls show the most effective way to talk about donald trump, talk about how he loses in the general election. is that frustrating that those traditional conservative points -- donald trump is not a conservative is not the best way to defeat him in this climate. is that go back to the anger? what is that about? mr. mcintosh: we have been trying to analyze it. when we started last fall, it was the best way because people do not know really who he was, and he sounded kind of conservative on immigration and

very anti-free trade. one, we think free-trade is the conservative position so we totally disagree with him there. second, we did educate with that about his positions, and that helped a lot. now, people sort of know him. the good thing is 60% of republican voters don't want him because he is not conservative. there is this 30% to 40% who you hear it on the news or see the tweets "i am voting for him no matter what he says." i am not one of these people that gets frustrated voters. our job is to help them see the position we think is right. that tells me now and going forward as a leader in the conservative movement we have to redouble our efforts to help people see what does it mean to be a conservative? in the past, we had to show people we are not coldhearted people who wanted to take away everything they have. now, we think the free market actually makes everybody better off. now, we will have to show we are not just angry at washington. we have a program that we think

will be better than what is going on in washington, and we need a leader who will free up people to start a small business, will let people make their own decisions on health care, and will protect their property rights, will give them and their children a better shot at the american dream. that is my job and the conservative movement job. i don't blame them for not hearing that right now. i have to think of a better way to tell them. susan: we have eight minutes left. ms. morrongiello: and want to ask you about the house leadership committee donald trump unveiled yesterday with the sole purpose of building relationships with lawmakers on capitol hill. you mentioned earlier that all of obviously has run a campaign against washington, and he has this anti-washington message that really resonates with a large majority of republican voters. you think the unveiling a committee like that, opening an office on capitol hill will backfire among those supporters who are really attracted to that anti-washington message? mr. mcintosh: if i was in line to ask what was going on, i

thought you were going to take up the place, not work with them. even more troubling to me are common to me in the past that i know how to make deals. i sit down with nancy pelosi and senator reid, and we will make a deal, and things will be good. that is very very dangerous because when republicans sit down with dems, the end up losing and caving to their agenda for increasing government. i think he probably has one of his campaign staff saying this is what you do, you set up a committee to show everybody you can be accepted by some people in washington. i think it can be backfire with his core supporters who say was he just using this and saying he will change things in washington? by the way, that is our thesis. that donald trump will not really be that big of a change

agent. mr. hohmann: you mentioned the educational work you have to do. you don't want to criticize the voters's motives. a higher percentage of self identified republicans feel trade deals are better jobs than democrats do. when you think about the history of the last 50 years of the republican party in the conservative movement, how much of trumpism speaks to broader problems in the conservative movement republican party? the club has said we are not part of the republican party. we care more about electing conservatives that electing republicans, but you have a lot of republicans who are not talking very conservative, who are not thinking very conservative on a lot of these key litmus test issues. it is beyond trump how big of a problem you think that is. mr. mcintosh: i think it is a

big challenge for the conservative movement, and the supporters of free-trade in particular right now have to find a better way of communicating other than the label. the free trade label is not one that will resonate. i think we have to point out these explanations have been around since the wealth of nations that adam smith wrote 200 years ago that each country is better when you have free-trade. it will not be the same jobs, but we will have new and better and higher paying jobs with a better economy, and we have to find ways of demonstrating and showing that. also, and you and i talked about this earlier, i really am concerned about trumpism not understanding the basic fabric of our constitution, that a president cannot just slap a tariff on somebody or say to a company you have to build here. if he were to get in office, we had a very casual framework. it exists because democrats and republicans fight with each other but we believe the constitution sets the rules and

limits. that can go away in a generation. for me, i spent my whole life fighting for conservatives. to say i will be the man and do things. my fault obama pulling the laying fault obama for the groundwork saying congress does not do it, so i will do it. but being honest about it in the end, he has been constrained in most of the things he has done. a couple times, he has gone over the line, i think, but he has been careful about it because he is trained that way. even the most liberal democrat has not challenged the fundamental structure in our government and donald trump does not even know it.

i don't think you would understand that he is upsetting the whole system if he decided to do something. it is a very precarious scenario. susan: we have four minutes left. ms. morrongiello: i want to ask a question about congress so we get a little bit away from the presidential election. back in 2013, 2014 club for growth and other organizations clashed with speaker boehner at the time. now with paul ryan, do you anticipate having or getting involved in any battles over the budget or spending proposals or seeing anything like that unfold? mr. mcintosh: yeah. i am a paul ryan admirer. i think he will be a good speaker, but i think this next budget is a test of whether he will change direction from john boehner or not. so far, the signals are they

don't want to. they will just keep running with the budget deal they did last fall. that is a huge mistake. the club will speak out against it and say republicans ought to use the budget now to show their thinning priority. usa body don't need to just go past president obama or nancy pelosi's deal last fall. the solution is paul needs more votes in the conference that will support the new leadership than boehner conditioned people to do that. not to expend government to cater interest but not way about conservatives in their district. that is where the club comes in. we will speak out on it. we will oppose a budget deal if it does not go back to less spending, but we will also work hard to get more members who will push inside. ms. morrongiello: if i could ask

a follow-up, in 2014, the organization gave paul ryan 83% on the congressional scorecard. seen him operate as speaker now for five months, would you are -- would you adjust that rating? mr. mcintosh: we do each year based on the vote. i've still giving him his honeymoon period, but if he keeps doing what he was doing last fall, that will be a b-minus rating that will go down to c or d quickly. susan: do you have a final question? mr. hohmann: you mentioned republicans helped big business and the club is against crony capitalism. do you think they get more power in the republican party? we have seen the business community able to drive a lot of these budget prices. they want certainty, which sometimes means not making hard choices. mr. mcintosh: they want to keep

the deals they have cut. in the congressional party, yes, because they are looked to for the funding for campaigns, they have gotten enormous. -- they have gotten enormous clout. they are committed to a republican majority. they have their agenda they push forward. very precarious position. you look at two recent elections. john boehner and eric cantor has been out of the office and replaced by conservatives. that should be a warning to the rest of the members that if you just do what they want, you will not be here that want. whether it is club for growth or their own voters, we were not involved in those races except for the replacement. i will take credit for getting a good conservative. one of the things that the party needs to do is talk to the business community and say we are not here to carry your water

on a particular bill that helps you and her to competitor. that is our philosophy. our philosophy is a healthy open free-trade market. that is hard for the lobbyists to hear because they have to go back to the ceo and say i cannot deliver on a $50,000 grant, but they told us we can go compete. the ceo says thanks. what am i paying you for? susan: let me put you on the spot. will donald trump be the republican nominee? mr. mcintosh: i don't think so. i don't think you will get to the majority. it is like a runoff with a front runner does not get to the 50% and you have the second election, to weave they lose because people see they are not the ones with. susan: the macintosh, president of the club for growth. thank you for being the "newsmakers" guest. mr. mcintosh: think you for having me. susan: after our conversation

with the president of club for growth, david mcintosh. for both of you, a lot of money was spent in florida with the hope of blunting mr. trump's process forward, which was not successful. what do you think says they will be in wisconsin? mr. hohmann: he made a joke that there are other things going on. wisconsin is a unique political stage in the sense that the milwaukee area has been very prominent conservative talk radio hosts and they have been in the never trump movement for a long time. scott walker has a lot of moral authority among wisconsin conservatives. he came out against donald trump. i think donald trump lose wisconsin in large part because of his unforced errors. his campaign manager being criminally charged with battery against a female reporter think women should be punished for having abortions.

i think he made a bunch of mistakes that you give people pause, by think the club has helped highlight those problems. if donald trump loses in wisconsin, which i expect he will. i have just come back from a couple days in the state. the club helped, but they will have to find a way to regrade these conditions again in new york and pennsylvania. ms. morrongiello: i agree with that. going into florida, he had momentum from a big win in new hampshire and south carolina, and now we had a period of a about a week and a half or two weeks going into the wisconsin primary where he has not been on the campaign trail as much. he is pushing all of these rallies into one day right before the primary, this saturday.

and he made a ton of errors in the past weeks. you are hearing in the media his favorability ratings and how he has a historically low favorability rating. the fact that is being pushed out there so often that these voters in wisconsin are paying attention to that. it is different going into wisconsin than it was in florida. susan: supporting senator ted cruz, there is reporting that the gold mine conservatives see this as a vehicle for where someone else might emerge. are you hearing that? mr. hohmann: the club is not in that category. ted cruz is a club for growth conservative.

he really is. they supported him early on. there are a lot of people you see like that macintosh -- dave mcintosh said he does not see john kasich successfully can prevent donald trump from winning the nomination before the convention. there are a lot of establishment republicans who say let us get behind ted cruz reluctantly for now, and we can get it to a convention and deny donald trump the nomination and maybe paul ryan would emerge as a potential nominee. susan: we also saw this week that the three major campaigns are hiring big guns in the delegate manipulation area. figuring out the strategy. what does that indicate? how important is that delegate process? >> this has become a delegate race. a lot of questions that still

exist about how the delegates will come into play. that inrump realized louisiana. they will be moving forward with the complaint about the distribution of delegates in that state. idea,rror reinforced the the importance of the role delegates play. to ensure they do not get blindsided at the convention. ted cruz has organized really well in terms of making sure his delegates are represented on state committees. it is monumentally important and those two campaigns, and i am

sure john kasich haswell -- as well, have been paying attention. >> hillary clinton to be the large front runner, but bernie sanders is the front runner in wisconsin. havenk bernie sanders will won six of the last seven contests. points in new 12 york. it is still a competitive race. hillary continues to accumulate a delegate lead. susan: it remains enormously interesting. >> wrote to the white house coverage continues tomorrow with -- road to the white house

coverage continues tomorrow with ted cruz in wisconsin. that state hold its presidential primary vote on tuesday. you can see the rally tomorrow on c-span. on tuesday, the george w. bush presidential center hosted a forum with former campaign managers, white house advisers from both parties. they discussed campaign advertising and offered an inside look at the presidential campaign process. the event began with presidential campaign ads as far back as 1950 two. this is one hour and 25 minutes. 1952. this is one hour and 35 minutes. -- 25 minutes. ♪

ikelike you like ike everybody likes ike ♪ text ladies and gentlemen, please welcome kevin sullivan.

: let me offer our sincere apologies for embedding that ike to president -- it is going be in your head for two or three days. i am sorry. from 1952 was one of the very first presidential tv ads ever recorded. tone fory to set the our conversation tonight. by the way, it is being recorded by c-span. tell your friends. thank you for being here for another sold-out event at the george w. bush presidential center. in addition to the presidential museum and library, the bush center houses the bush institute , an energetic policy center that addresses the most pressing challenges by developing leaders, fostering policy, and

taking action that improves the quality of people's lives at home and all around the world. the bush institute focuses on policy areas most important to the president and mrs. bush during their public lives. it is one way they continue their service to our nation. it is on her -- it is an honor to have them with us tonight. [applause] before we continue, i want to call your attention to a special exhibit which explores the history of campaigns and elections, lots of interactive things you can do. it will be open until 9:00 p.m. please check it out after the event. i am really excited about the program tonight. you are in for a treat. we will begin with a conversation about presidential campaign advertising. .e have two experts

we have mark mckinnon and dr. patrick merrick of the university of oklahoma. [applause] ut guy so we balanced out the equation. mark has been a chief media advisor on a number of successful campaigns. said oft bush once mckinnon, i was impressed with mark's creativity and i was impressed by his honesty. typeface. mark is most famous -- high praise. he is most famous of the -- of the hit "the circus," which chronicles the current campaign action every sunday night on showtime. >> this is the story about john kennedy. here is the situation.

you have the flu, snowing heavily, it is your daughter's birthday the next morning and you are supposed to be at a soup kitchen at 6:00 in the morning. the question is not would you go , the question is would you want to go? >> the show is incredible. if you have not seen it, use the showtime anytime app to get caught up. also happy to have a former journalist who heads up the political communication center, home of the most comprehensive archival political advertising. a real expert on presidential campaign advertising. second half of our program, the can and will moderate and elite moderateckinnon will elite panel.el an

we have a campaign manager for president obama in 2008. david later served as senior advisor in the white house. let's welcome our three panelists. [applause] i want to offer our sincere , enormous's he helpful input together tonight's program. as a nonprofit, the bush center does not participate in politics, but that does not mean we cannot have some fun with some of today's best-known political insiders. join me in welcoming to the stage our guests. [applause] >> we will take this off.

you just saw one of the very first ads, the eisenhower ads. didof the first things i was go back and study the history of advertising presidential campaigns. what you see over time is that it really evolves. voters get used to seeing something that is not as effective. you can see these different phases. phase was like selling soap. absolutely. although some things change, other things change the same. mr. mckinnon: let's see some of the standard introductory ads.

dr. meirick: these are ads, if you have humble roots, count them. --tout them. if you can tie yourself to the american dream, you have got to do it. mr. mckinnon: should we just play both of them? dr. meirick: ok. general, if war comes, is this country really ready? >> it is not. the administration has spent billions of dollars for national defense. it is time for a change.

eisenhower has met your leaders -- europe leaders. elect the number one man for the number one job of our time. vote for eisenhower. a paid film. >> i was born in a little town called hope, arkansas. i remember that old two-story house where he lived with my grandparents. towas in 1963 that i went washington and met president kennedy. what aner thinking incredible country this was. someone like me who had no money would be given the opportunity to be president. i decided i could really do public service. i worked my way through law school. part-time jobs.

after i graduated, i did not really care about making money. we worked hard on education and health care to create jobs and we made real progress. i could help to change all of our people's lives for the better and bring hope back to the american dream. mr. mckinnon: first impressions are important. quick storyll a -- when weonvention introduced president bush at the convention. there was an exchange about the delivery room and when your daughters were born and you completely scrambled it up. we all laughed and we reshot it a couple of times until we got it right. we started to fix it. it is great, so funny, let's

leave that in. it was a human great moment. you can imagine the response we got at the campaign. you can not that in their. people hunger for authenticity. we also did not want to raise the bar of expectations. [laughter] the ads that are really powerful are those that play on people's -- what they fear and their security. the next add is the most famous act in american politics. 100 political consultants. -- which add would you guess? let's do a quick setup up. the reason this is brilliant, strategically, so powerful.

polls had come out saying johnson was probably going to win big. the johnson campaign realized that was a problem. all of our voters got the message that this thing is already done so why come out and vote? they show the potential consequences might be. dr. meirick: this is picking up on a statement goldwater made talking about the possible use of nuclear weapons in vietnam and this was a fear they really wanted to pick up on. mr. mckinnon: here it is. 8, 9, 9, 4, 5, 6, 6,

-- >> 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0 -- >> these are the stakes. to make a world in which all god's children can live. either love our children or we must die. >> the stakes are too high for you to stay home. mr. mckinnon: vote or die, that is pretty compelling. dr. meirick: visually, it is absolutely stunning. such an outcry the ad only aired once. mr. mckinnon: great ads -- great campaigns tell a story.

this is called the bear in the woods. if you boil this down and 28 seconds, it does a perfect narrative. it talks about a threat or an opportunity and establishes a victim of the threat, a villain imposing a threat, a resolution to the threat, and a hero. it does all this and 28 seconds. this is ronald reagan. >> there is a bear in the woods. for some people, that there is easy to see. others do not see it at all. some people say that there is tame -- bear is tame. since no one can really be sure who is right, isn't it as strong -- is not smart to be as strong as the bear -- if there is a bear? mr. mckinnon: that is so great.

it is part of my exercise. i talked to the guy who made that ad. he did the narration, too. , went and had lunch with him too. i ran into the campaign manager a couple of years ago and i talked about this and he said, we had to rent that bear and it cost us $10,000 to rent the bear. that was a trained bear. we taught him to back up. had an amazing voice. they are often considered negative ads, but you never hear a name. it is all implicit. that is pretty rare.

bear ad,pdating of the we do not want to leave anything to the imagination. we do what we call stealing. [laughter] , we borrow from the best. we did a version of a bear in the woods ad. the same kind of metaphorical reference. the interesting thing about this ad, we cut this together very early on in the campaign and we tested it and it was so effective, so good, we said, we decided to wait until a critical moment in the campaign to deploy the ad. imagination, and

some earlier iterations, we had carcass.acking a if we left the wolves in the woods, that worked better. that is kind of like a former film. film.ror but a dangerous world, even after the first terrorist attack -- >> i am george w. bush, and i approve this message. dr. meirick: do you want to set

up the next one? mr. mckinnon: i think we can talk about some other kinds of strategies in negative ads. some time a sense that negative ads, negativity is a brand-new thing that only started in 1988. this next add goes to show that that is not necessarily the case. that must be changed. >> how was that again, general? that was one more promise mr. eisenhower did not keep.

he did nothing about changing the unionbusting. let's think it through. mr. mckinnon: now he was a natural. dr. meirick: the notion of being telegenic was a new idea. i think bernie sanders would really like that. we are going to move ahead to 1972 and the next couple of ads are going to show a kind of ad that deals with the

flip-flop. this one was attacking the governor. classic campaign ad where you show europe on it saying something differently -- your opponent saying something differently. this is a great ad against john kerry in 1984. we got some video that john kerry had been windsurfing. not a lot of people in america windsurf and he is wearing these shorts andpurple doing this out near some yachts. ross came up with this brilliant ad with great music and it proved very effective. >> in 1967, george mcgovern said

-- last year, the senator suggested regulating marijuana along the same lines of marijuana. now he is against legalizing it and says he always has been. bill.gested a welfare now he says the thousand dollar figure is not right. he has proposed unconditional amnesty for all draft dodgers. now he claims he proposed no such thing. last year, this year, the question is, what about next year? >> in which direction would john kerry lean?

he voted for education reform and now opposes it. john kerry -- whichever way the wind blows. [applause] mr. mckinnon: i want to spend a second on that one. we had completely different strategic challenges in both elections. in 1999, we were in a period of relative economic prosperity and in the usual dynamics of status quo election, it really looked like a status quo election. people agreed with al gore on all of the issues.

thanks to a great candidate with a clear vision, we change the context of the election. flashorward for years, -- forward four years, we were arguing in a time where people were not happy about our foreign engagement. this was a status quo election and we were arguing to keep it the same. we were blessed by the opposition in john kerry. there was a critical moment in the campaign when john kerry, ever have -- after having ,ledged to support the troops and we were able to take advantage of that. that and the fact we had a

candidate that even if people agreed more with john kerry, they liked president bush because he was clear and had compelling for convictions and was consistent, the opposite of john kerry. that was a big power and how that collection turned out. dr. meirick: that is one of the advantages of the flip-flop approach. you have an attack on the policy and whichever side someone is on the policy, by pointing out this campaign has been either side of them, you arrange everybody. and any printout the inconsistency -- and then you printout the inconsistency. mr. mckinnon: one of the differences in campaigns in the last few years, separate committees who run on your

behalf -- supposedly. it creates a lot of dissonance because sometimes these organizations are doing things that are counter than what you want to be saying. sometimes they are helpful. ,n 2004, there was an effort and ad that ran in ohio in the midst of a lot of negative campaigning and this was a great ad. it goes back to my thing about the bear in the woods. it tells a story. it was a very sweet and compelling ad with a powerful and positive message. >> when president bush came to

ohio, she went to see him. >> he turned around and came back and said, are you all right? >> our president took ashley in his arms and just embraced her. we saw her eyes fill up with tears. >> he is the most powerful man in the world and all he wants to do is make sure i'm safe and ok. what i want to see in the heart and the soul of the man who sits in the highest country.ffice of our [applause] mr. mckinnon: the anti-evolution

of advertising that we lose control enough, we have running ads and we don't have control over them. we has control of in a message which is what we try to retain control up. that, becauseg is of the online capabilities of social media, not just but anybody out there can make an advertisement your behalf and if it is good enough, there will be enough power. when my favorite advertisement a great apples advertisement that was produced on behalf of barack obama, but not by the campaign. you probably know more of the back story on this. technically, not an advertisement at all, it never aired on television to my knowledge. host: it was a viral video. so, we kind of a stretch the definition of political advertisement we start to include these. they are clearly persuasive. mr. mckinnon: i think it was pretty early on, was in a? to release of