nazareth. join us next saturday for our live coverage of the annapolis book festival. next, former vice president dick cheney talking about the role of vice president and the selection process. then, the state of manufacturing in the u.s.. cases" looks at miranda versus arizona, which required suspects to have their rights read before they were questioned. a conversation with former vice president dick cheney, former attorney general ed meese, and constitutional law deen douglas about choosing a running mate, the balance of power, and reflections on breaking and justice scalia. -- reflections on nancy reagan and justice scalia. this is one hour.

[applause] thank you ladies and gentlemen. let's get right to it. from dr.a presentation larson that suggests your role as vice president was a political expediency, that it was a prize that could be given away to earn political present -- politiacal credit for the president. we saw interesting proliferation's in the electoral college, where people were casting their ballots in a way where so many people would cost ballets, and an unexpected presidential candidate would emerge. they were undesignated orig

inally. what do you make of that history? is it a history you are comfortable with? or do you find yourself dissenting from it? i thought it was right on. my wife has written a book on james madison. impression that dr. larson presented is very much in tune with my wife's interpretation. it was an afterthought. sotly an effort to deal with

many problems as they arose in the electoral college. fact that you have a couple prominent members of the , ittitutional convention hadn't been addressed into the creation of the vice presidency. it felt it was a band-aid. an effort to deal with a .hort-term problem at a time this, you get into quickly discover how much the vice presidency is tied up with the perception of the electoral college and the the changes that take place in it. suppositioncovers a from our first president, who receives treatment as the saint of the republic.

he viewed the operation of governnt in a nonpartisan way. he said in his farewell address, he wanted to warn us about the dangerous effects of party. when you ask washington for his conception of the presidency, it's much different than the role that we associate with the president now. we associate him being the head of his party, the international leader in terms of laying out policy programs that congress will follow on behalf of the constituents that elected him. conception of the presidency was march narrow or, it was much -- was much nar rower, it was more managerial and executive. members of congress would ask the executive branch for their opinion on certain matters.

worked assiduously to prevent members of his administration from answering those. we have to the reasons from not answering letters from congress. but the madison supposition is that it confuses the role of president. that he was to take what was delivered to him and to take care of the loss faithfully executed. -- the laws faithfully executed. if you assume that as the nature , does it makency sense to think of the vice presidency as where there is more going on than a juror to be added to someone's political treasure box? v.p. cheney: one thing i onember, there was confusion what the executive role would

be. you look at washington's first --dress in congress, he had [indiscernible] it was submitted by the president to congress. madison wrote the congressional response, the executive's message, which he had written himself. again, washington used him to respond. there was confusion about who was writing whom. imagine that the president of the united states called on a congressional leader --[indiscernible] they were making it up as they went along.

>> a strong executive was a concern they had in terms of too much power. when they did that, they were not fond of state executives. they were appointees of the crown. they were very much resented and resisted.

because youfferent, have popular sovereignty and some portion of the population selecting the governor. you are right there was a profound concern with abuse of power and unity of power. what irings us to mentioned in the introduction, a that something has to explain the votes we have seen in the primary. there is a certain rage among the people that the government is simply not on the job. i don't mean this to be in any way partisan. i think it is a bipartisan exercise.

i remember the slow process of confirmation proceedings in the senate, handling those matters. now that the shoe is on the other foot, obama is making the same complaint. why isn't the government delivering what those guys promised to me when they ran on the stump 4 years ago? more intellectual perspective, it is threatening to the separation of powers, is it not? if you have key appointments not being made, legislation not being addressed, there is a tendency on part of the presidency to go around the problem with executive orders that you don't have authority for without legislation.

the separation of powers --[indiscernible] is this dysfunction issue a servce one, or would you describe it in a different way? v.p. cheney: i am much or how much it has to do with the role of the vice president. [laughter] i'm not the only one. we ended up on the republican side with candidates running in a rich field-- what we're left with at this stage, all those supposedly establishment candidates aren't really a factor anymore.

it's taken on a different tone and style than i have seen before. has would argue it something to do with the vice presidency. as you mentioned, even on the issue of the presidency, there is uncertainty about that. this was a new office. they did not want a king. they wanted leadership and management, but they did not know how much. how does the problem of reuniting the powers into an effective government--

the powers are not just to be divided and separated, but interspersed and integrated when necessary to build a working government. if the vice president, who has this unique role, is in the place where these two interests have to mett, what substitute is there for getting agreement to move the government forward in a positive way? v.p. cheney: the way i look at it, based on my own experience, i was reputed by some to have an especially powerful position.

>> one said when you hear the president's voice, you hear dick cheney's. v.p. cheney: i wondered why it did on my watch. i think there are a lot of reasons not related to the constitution. >> more of a personal dynamic? v.p. cheney: personal. congress.k with i had been a number of the house for 10 years. was elected vice president, i was visited by the speaker of the house. the speaker of the house was a good friend. i helped him when he first came into congress.

we think of you as the man of the house. the chairman at that point had 2 very nice offices. huge office, table and cabinet. [indiscernible] he said i could have either one of those offices. because of my background in the relationships

-- [indiscernible] i had an office not only in the -- west wing.t we had a significant legislative impact. that was all based on personal relationships and background with the house and senate. i think that is a great story. demonstrative a story as to the significance of the vice president. i want to get back to the founders. they got you that office to some degree because it opened the door that you would be president of the senate.

and yet it was dick cheney that took the presidency of the senate and found the most aggravating office to occupy, and fun ways to have -- and found ways to have conversations. isn't that interesting, that this office they created [indiscernible] so instrumental in terms of what you would point out to be your success as vice president. i think the framers get a little tip of the hat for that. [laughter]

>> they had an office in the west wing, so they could never find you. [laughter] >> looking at the vice presidency through the years, as recently as calvin coolidge, i don't think there's much thought of the vice president as a big role in the executive branch. heen eisenhower came in, was used to a military structure. he talked about being an executive vice president. that the vice president would have more of a role in the executive branch. is that your recollection of how the office changed? v.p. cheney: by the time i got

the job, one of the reasons i said no when it was first offered was because [indiscernible]

i was not interested in becoming vice president. we worked through a 2-3 month process finding various candidates. could get me he what id, he conveyed should be looking for. i absorbed his perception. everybody i could think of. me and said, you are the solution to my problem.

what he needed. there was never a contract or handshake. what a good understanding he was looking for. >> he became not just the model, but the candidate. legislative mix--

the others pointed out are those with legislative experience. like lyndon johnson for example, his effectiveness as president, drawing upon legislative talents. when adams tried to throw himself into his work, it was too much for the senate to have him there on a day-to-day basis. like to bewouldn't

vice president, i would rather be dead before i get buried." [laughter] >> you did do something other vice presidents haven't done, which is a letter of resignation. uset's interesting becau for the president to be serene sense,unitary executive he can dismiss someone if necessary.

v.p. cheney: there were occasions when we had differences of view.

it was important to have that privacy. there waere other occasions where we disagreed. there were pictures taken inside a nuclear reactor in a syrian desert, built by the north koreans. of a sudden we find not only

they have been working on a nuclear device, but a nuclear reactor in syria. there was a major concern in terms of proliferation. the place is now controlled by isis. the >> difference of opinion was that it was very important it to be managed. the proliferation of nuclear and he had taken such a .trong position

i was the only one in the that actually led of theng upstairs national security council. he encouraged me to let out and that the united states should be the one to leave the action. i asked for a show of hands. and nobody volunteered. it would have given for more meaning and substance. it would have sent a very strong signal.

that i hadll argue the better policy action. >> you meant that argument internally? guest: it got out eventually. we talked about it several months before. we have the history of the electoral college and how it from the votes to one vote, to vote and vice versa. the original method was set to attract men of equal stature. the person who received the second-highest number was the andested for the presidency

at the same range of talent and stature. jefferson" what point that out sometimes. that second changed, you people a second tier of who were aiming at that second office. in fact, that's when larson got a lap or two. mesaid no one will bother and so forth. you had enough personal gumption to take on the president. how does the president get candidate find that quality?

quality in selecting the vice president would you point out to us? i have argued before that lots of times the reason pick running mates might have to do with gender or race or geography. i think there is only one quality that matters more than everything. i think with we look back at find that thel vice president shall running mate. there are a lot of pressures.

after rockefeller stepped down we had to have a replacement. onn that search based guidance from jerry ford. then george w bush. needed to quality step in at any given moment? it has a lot to do with it. ofiously, a certain degree compatibility. i was not using the vice

.resident with thatas all over i would not run for president. i do in one to be the one who lost because he had about heart. a bad heart. that never changed and that was one of the reasons why george bush was comfortable with me and gave me as much latitude as he did.

that was a very important build. the outcome of the iowa caucuses >> before turning to the cards, one is for you.

we have this legislative branch person here in this confidential discussion. depends onof law maintaining that privilege and confidentiality. how do they handle this when they are not formally part of the executive branch? more in the nature of the legislative? >> people could conjure up one. people think of it as being three big separations, it is the

wrong concept. the power that would be could require firmer -- further limitations on power. concept by the founders was to limit founders -- powers. the had the executive ability to do things but not limit the power of the people. was limiting power. when they limited power among the three branches and then further limited each branch individually on some things. here it is allowing the

president to determine what executive powers if any vice president had. article two says all executive powers are from the president not the president and the vice president. the vice president has been saying that the nature depended -- the thoughts of the founders were not in line with what they were intending to do. >> there is no firewall. do you want to call it an afterthought? uniting that to some degree.

it may have been an accident. >> if we didn't have a vice president, what would you do? if you didn't have a vice president, what would you do? is would you turn to the totally unelected secretary of state? equals, howong would you fill that gap? alexander hayes as he puts it.

the speaker in-house is next in line after the vice president. then you would have a person who was elected by the most citizens in one state or congressional district becoming the president. it would be the lowest electoral majority that anyone would have. >> to be kept going you would have officers. there is a question we do have from the audience which is a good one. people have chosen their vice presidential candidates on their own or sometimes in consultation with post local visors. is that enough accountability in --deborah m aquatic center in a democratic center. or they open it up to a larger that the delegates at

the convention would choose the vice president on the list. what is your thought on that? i would not seal the ability to be active and effective. lyndon johnson is the guy who is the legislative genius. what you remember about lyndon johnson's vice presidency is he got to go to afghanistan. home with a camel.

maybe. was a very confident experienced man who had been running it. but then he became vice president and have nothing to do. ultimately, it has to be with how else. sure if you will have much to difference. if he is not happy with that >> i read your wife's book

on that. --as surprised to surprise to find all of these examples casting the vote against the presidential nominee. is that part of the vice presidency that we are selecting , the ability to count on that vote? >> it would put a strain on the relationship.

in reducing the number of senators that could filibuster. rockefeller got actively involved as vice president and nothe position having to get involved in. as and in the final analogies, happen but you have to

when toenough to know be a little more aggressive. analysis, you can go over and jump off the boat. it is probably not a good idea. thehe end, it is president's administration. >> as far as the country is concerned is where the president does not take the vice president into his confidence. truman didstory that not know about the atomic bomb andl he became president the lack of preparation for the presidency, that is it an extreme case.

as -- they publish some remarks by jewish -- bush 41. i know you think very highly of the elderly president bush. i'm not looking for your reaction to that particular comment other than to ask you as you reflect on your on vice presidency, are there some things you would have done differently. hand no.ight

in the biography, in the course of that in conversations with , president bush senior made the comment that i had undergone a change from when i had been given defense secretary. he attributed to 9/11? >> i attributed to 9/11. i became much more aggressive and hard-nosed. 9/11, it wasath of an act of war. timent a good part of my

and was not certain it didn't happen again. but i admitted that he was right . we meet once a year. there were a lot of laughs and jokes. i got an invitation to sit next to him. and we smoothed over the relationship.

he said there was no hard feelings. host: this is an opportunity to to do this. would either of you like to reflect on the recent passing of nancy rankin -- reagan and what she meant? >> the one thing i will say is that she did not try to usurp the powers of the vice presidency. aboutis a lot of talk being the force behind reagan. fired did not have him but the president cited it probably be better if they found

other work. nancy reagan was a very good wife and devoted to her husband. and eight years there was not one instance where she tried to interfere in policy or tried to influence the government. there was no doubt that she had definite ideas, she probably talked it to him at night. she was alert to people who she did not think were serving him well. the main thing she was concerned was that she did not -- he did not get overtired.

that was the one time she would call over to the white house office and talk about scheduling. overall she was very important to him and very important to the country. the thing she did such as taking on the drug's campaign and talking with kids and education, it reinforced things that he was trying to do. she had been a real asset not only to him but to the country. -- you cannot have been nicer to me personally.

i wanted to two reflect on antonin scalia up. guest: he was a giant. role and ismajor sadly going to be missed. our careers began at about the same time. we got to know each other over the years. friends and when

, i was parttogether of the president's energy task orders. -- force. refused to do that and said the advisoryld ask committee. i went to the supreme court and they ruled and our favor. scalia may have been on andck hunt in louisiana they alleged there was something -- he wrote a brief.

he wrote a beautiful 20 page themnt document telling where to stick it where the sun don't shine. [laughter] he was a great guy. impressed.ndously you have that ability to separate policy differences out of personal relationships. kim and ruth bader ginsburg best -- best coupe

friends on the court. >> a bust was unveiled of the vice president. in terms of that kind of came andp, joe biden made nice remarks on that afternoon. started with the concern of dysfunction. he was able to replace justice scalia. adjustment to

vacate until the next election? >> i agree with majority leader mcconnell: in saying they will not consider a nomination until after the election. obviously, there have been times before when the senate has rejected nominees. by the tactical move senate leadership. pathf you start down that and bring about to the floor on they would put a lot of political pressure on a .umber of the members this would protect them from that. important in are

terms of the court. they do not want to replace the ultimate conservative justice judicial philosophy that will shape the court for the next 30 years. a substanceg to be of debate. obama will argue his point of view and republicans will argue their point of view. i'm not surprised that there is controversy there. it is interesting to notice that this issue came up during george w. bush's last term. chuck schumer, joe biden and were adamant that no one would confirm a justice

year. last is a bipartisan direction that they hope the direction will not go in. it is a cost that is being paid. be that as it may, it this has been a wonderful discussion and there are so many quips about the vice president. thomas marshall was vice president for woodrow wilson. neither were heard from again. thank you both. [applause]

[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] c-span, landmark cases and supreme court decisions. this explores real life stories and constitutional dramas. caseis is a story and a during times of war. it puts before the courts .everal themes it limits what the congress can place on it. he says that the case has come to be a hectic right of -- accepted by the coulter. >> it isolated the