washington journal, rick shankman, author of political animals. >> i said we've got to and the starvation him him wage data secretary clinton said let's raged it to $12. there's a difference. >> i have said that i support the fight for 15 it. i supported those on the front line. those were some of the words used in newspapers to describe last night's democratic debate. we want to talk to you about your reaction. we want to hear from hillary clinton and bernie sanders supporters.

you can see the lines they are on the screen. you can make a comment through social media. this is the inside page of usa today. york times onw the front page.

politico this morning, clinton and sanders for all in the brooklyn. they engaged in their most vicious debate yet. they delivered a two hour shouting match. street,wled over wall tons, racism, the minimum wage, and fitness for the white house. here is a little bit more of the debate. secretary clinton have the experience to be president? of course she does. question her judgment. that voteda judgment for the war in iraq.

the worst foreign-policy blunder in the history of this country. voted for every disastrous trade agreement that cost us millions of decent paying jobs. i question her judgment about running super pac's that are collecting tens of millions of dollars from special interests, including $15 million from wall street. that's thebelieve kind of judgment we need to be the kind of president we need. that now the spotlight is bright re in new york some things have been said. senator sanders did call me unqualified. i've been called a lot of things in my. did question my judgment good the people of my -- new york

voted for me twice. president obama trusted my judgment on being secretary of state. we have disagreements on policy. there's no doubt about it. if you go and read, senator sanders interview with the new york daily news, talk about judgment and the kinds of problems he had answering questions about even his core issues. explain how that would be done. when i asked about a number of foreign-policy issues, he could not answer about afghanistan, israel, counterterrorism. i think you need to have the judgment on day one to be both president and commander in chief.

host: hillary has a 17 point lead. wall streetbc journal poll. what did you think of the debate last night? caller: i think it highlighted that she has real policy. bernie has a lot of passion and he has a good heart. you have to have a plan to move america forward. when she tried to provide ,etails on how to work policies if you don't have a policy, what can you say? sanders is a bernie supporter. caller: thanks for taking my call. i wanted to say a few things about bernie sanders. why he doesn't put this information out there.

era, hehe civil rights would handcuff himself to african-american marchers and if they got arrested, he would get arrested as well. i haven't heard anybody talking about that. what did you think of the debate last that? caller: i've only seen clips of it today. i think he did pretty good. host: market is another bernie sanders supporter. caller: good morning. i enjoyed the debate. little bit biased, but i think he did a great job. i think he can do a better job in talking about the revolution. not beingabout him realistic. what i like all of the listeners to think about, it seems like every 40 50 years, the country

needs to go big. the last time we went take it was with kennedy. he attacked multi-pronged issues. one was civil rights. two were a program that we enjoy today. he went big. nasa was paid. -- pig. it's about the people. if the people do not amass more than 20% of the representation of voting, we will never get there. if that percentage even creeps up to 35%. either way, this is a trump moment or a bernie sanders moment. -- willu say that she you support her? caller: to be honest with you, i

would be with kasich or donald trump. the incremental steps and the establishment process is not getting us anywhere. if anything else, it's turned the clock back. i would encourage the millennials, do not listen to us older people. vote your conscience. this is your country now. i encourage the millennials to do something they have never done, to get out and vote. this is the new york times. vaticanaccepting the offer was a must. he said he could not refuse the invitation to talk about the world economy and social justice.

he said in an interview on thursday that pope francis has played an extraordinary role.

we have a hillarclinton supporter in florida. what did you think of the debate last night? caller: it was great. she is an experienced lady. she was a presidents wife. she knows what's going on. be right therel to back her up. we need somebody like this is clinton. i send what little money i have to help her. god put him there for a purpose. may god bless her and be our next president. linda is in miami, oklahoma.

she is a bernie sanders supporter. day.r: this is a historic we are in for a big revolution of all kinds. i am 70. that people can't have one vote. i am all for $15 an hour for everybody. female, gender is not the issue. this planet. i am for god's creation. if the creator made it, i love it. i think that's the world -- way the world should think. go for it. host: that is linda in oklahoma. james is calling in from

georgia, a hillary supporter. how did your candidate do last night? caller: i did not watch the debate. i know who i am going to vote for. it will be a democrat or than likely. i've been much got no choice. they have been shoving hillary clinton down her throat. i just keep see myself voting for one of the republicans. so much hatred. meanness. being an african-american, what they say about african-americans in the way they've treated president obama, there's no way i can vote for republicans. i wish there could've been somebody else. that's just the way it is. host: a couple of reactions on

our twitter feed include mrs. v ia. bob is in jacksonville, texas. did you watch the debate last night? caller: i watched it until i went to bed. i am a bernie sanders supporter. democrat. devout if he don't get the nomination, i will probably vote republican.

i will vote for donald trump if he gets the nomination. host: what's the connection for you there between bernie sanders and donald trump? caller: it's hard for me to my finger on it. with the last caller. it's hard to make myself vote republican. is ii am trying to say believe bernie sanders and donald trump are trying to accomplish the same thing. i am excited about bernie sanders. quickcan you give us a review of your voting history? did you vote for president obama?

bush?u vote for george w. caller: i voted for obama. i was proud of my book. i don't want to make anybody mad. i voted for him. i voted public and for years until they had the impeachment of clinton. i was for the republicans all the way. then they spent all those millions of dollars in him and they just threw it out the window. if that's the way the republican party is going to be run, i'm out of here. i'm going to switch sides. host: thanks for calling in.

up next is betty in massachusetts, a hillary clinton supporter. caller: i watched every minute of it last night and i think she did a fantastic job. i think she is the most qualified candidate we've ever had running for president. she knows leaders all around the world. it she is extremely intelligent. 227 years, we are way behind other countries. it's time for a woman. for aeople would vote goat instead of a woman. my prediction has come true.

now we have an old goat. old 74. he probably won't even live through his first term. he is a conscientious objector. he keeps crowing about he did not vote for the iraq war. he would not vote for any war. host: new york post this morning, they end dose donald trump. we expect trump to it. presidentiale more and better informed on policy and more self disciplined. the promise is clearly there. he is leading the field as the finals near. the post says that his language

has too often been amateur us and divisive. what do you expect from someone who's never been a professional politician and reflects common man passion. that is one of his great attractions. he is not one of them. it he is challenging the victim culture that is turning into a victimizing culture. op-ed in the an wall street journal this morning.

that is a little bit from donald trump's op-ed in the wall street journal. here is a little bit more of last night's debate between hillary clinton and bernie sanders. >> i have said from the beginning we are going to protect social security. i was one of the leaders against privatizing social security. i am determined to extend the trust fund. we have to help people who are not being taken care of now. women have been left out and left behind. it's time that we provide more benefits for widows, it of war say's, caregivers. go ahead center. >> she didn't answer the question.

go ahead center. >> that is my legislation that you just described. here's the issue. your answer has been the same year after year. forth, iti'm ringing wasn't my idea. it was barack obama's idea in 2008 and he called for lifting the cap. that, you're going to extend the life of social security for 58 years. you will significantly expand $1300 a year for seniors and disabled veterans. what's wrong with that? are you prepared to support it? >> we are in agreement here, senator. it's important to point out

we are having a discussion about the best way to raise money from wealthy people to extend the social security trust fund. think about what the other side wants to do. they are calling it a ponzi scheme. they still want to privatize it. their idea is to turn the trust fund over to wall street. that is something we would never let happen. >> if i hear you correctly, you are now coming out finally in favor of lifting the cap on taxable income and expanding social security. if that of his case, welcome on board. i am glad you are here. comments from of

facebook. michael is in los angeles. he is calling on the bernie sanders support line. caller: i saw it. i looked forward to it. i want to say there is no similarity between donald trump and bernie.

but there are is, big differences. i was a democrat and i come from a democratic family. i became a republican and now i am independent. one thing i disliked about hillary was she was always laughing. something was always funny. most of the debates, she's always laughing. you look at bernie, he's serious. that's a big difference right there. it's no joke. if bernie would become president, he would be the first president paid for by private citizens. no big business, no big banks. host: we are going to leave it there. we are going to hear from perth in ohio. caller: good morning.

i have a bumper sticker for you first. that's sort of a side point. i am a 60's liberal. yesterday i found my gene mccarthy button. i have some credibility there. i think the visuals told the story. red-faced, waving his arms. constantly trying to interrupt. clinton was calm, detailed and presidential. this business of the speech transcripts were interjected by chuck todd way back when. he picked it up.

i think that's a phony issue. i think there are a lot more important issues. i am for hillary. i was for obama last time around. some bad she had staffing. i think she is on a roll and she is great. charles krauthammer this morning in his column, clinton is him rest in peace.

that is a little bit from charles krauthammer this morning. now a little bit from isabella in massachusetts. i wasn't able to watch the debate last night because basic cable doesn't have cnn. benow ccn -- c-span will broadcasting at some point. the debates should be available

to every american. i heard a parts of it on radio and tv. i am glad that ernie is continuing to be relentlessly honest as he always is. he is talking about her allegiance to wall street. she has appropriated his entire platform without giving him any credit area i wanted to observe as a lifelong democrat is super delegates no place in the national election for president. it shameful to me that the republican party does not have them but the democratic party does. i think we have to get rid of them. this is based on 1% one vote. , ierdelegates are one person hundred thousands of votes in equivalence. i think that's wrong. it feels like we need to re-examine our system.

the republican side and the corruption and the party hacks on the democratic side. the: you mentioned in superdelegates, as of now, hillary clinton has 1758 delegates pledged to her from the primaries. they need 2000 383 to win. bernie sanders has 1069 pledged. the next call is richard in massachusetts. how are you doing. i like hillary because she and her husband voted for everything

the republicans wanted when bill clinton was president. prisons, these trade deals which helped me because i was able to helped me because i was able to get my suits cheaper. he deregulated the banks, which the republicans wanted, causing my properties to go up four times than what they were worth and i could trample my rent. -- triple my rent. host: are we hearing sarcasm? caller: no. it has helped me a lot. i appreciate them. from richard, massachusetts. 740 three, donald trump. 540 five, ted cruz. john kasich, 143. politico, george pataki endorsed john kasich, the former governor

of new york. cruz at theing for gop gala in new york. as well as for the presidential hopeful ted cruz, he got the cold shoulder from 800 republicans at the new york city gop gala on thursday, receiving little interaction from the hisence as he went through stump speech. the media reported guests walking and talking during his address. here is some from ted cruz. cruz: new york city is hollowed ground. it is the site of the worst terror attack on united states soil, yet in the 15 years since 9/11, many in washington have forgotten. ,oday, when we see an attack whether in paris, brussels, san bernardino -- inevitably

president obama goes on national television and refuses to say the words "radical islamic " and instead lectures the american people on islamophobia. i want to be clear that come january 2017, our military will no longer be governed by political correctness. every jihadist on the face of the earth should hearken to these words. if you wage war against the united states of america, if you seek to murder innocent americans, we are coming to get you. we are not coming to interrogate you, to read you your rights -- we are coming to kill you. host: we want to get your reaction to the democratic debate on cnn.

(202) 748-8000 if you are hillary clinton supporter. (202) 748-8001 if you are bernie sanders supporter. gary in north carolina, a hillary clinton supporter. why do you support hillary clinton and what is your reaction to the debate? caller: she is the most qualified person in my lifetime. that is why i called. she was consistently one of the top 100 lawyers before she got to washington. then she was a very active first lady. then she was a two-term senator. then she was the secretary of state. then she was the 20 time most admired woman in the world. that is better than thomas jefferson. i digress.

the reason i called is because i remember one time somebody asked bernie, how are you going to get this stuff done? he said, and i'm paraphrasing, when mitch mcconnell looked out the window and sees one million people telling him what to do, he said he will go then and do what i say. something to that effect. ,efore that, two years ago barack obama had a blowout winning by 2 million votes. winning as big as you can win. one million people were at grant park. it was magic. 1.8ent to his inauguration, alien -- i don't even know the number. mitch mcconnell was in the

.asement with 14 republicans they decided they would not help that man. it was like magic, and they decided that they would rather dropdead than help this guy. bernie sanders is an angry old man. did anyone else see him wagging his finger? next a newt is up jersey. a sanders supporter. senator sanders supporter. caller: how are you doing? from washington square. it was a pleasure to be there. it was nice to see the young people engaged in the political process. i support bernie sanders because i believe as every other industrialized country we are entitled to health care.

i think that is an important issue, and that he should run on it the way that he has and call out secretary clinton for not wanting to give all is that she gets. host: robert in new jersey. tommy in mississippi. go ahead. caller: i watched the debate last night. clinton, it hillary think she is well qualified, but bernie sanders is making promises that he cannot keep. all those young people that he will do things free. i'm ashamed of how he is ripping those young people love for their money. if you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything -- that is how he is how he's treating young people. falling for anything. it is a shame. thank you. host: "the washington post"

trump and cruz have little popularity among the population at large. the public at large, according to a new washington post/abc news poll did most republicans see them in a favorable light. 58% respectively. john kasich is less popular, 47% . that is despite receiving the best ratings among the broader electorate. 31% of americans have a favorable view of trump and 67% are unfavorable. ted cruz is within a 36% favorable rating. 53% unfavorable. they are less popular than mitt romney was at this point in the 2012 campaign.

they find a significant gender gap in republican's views of trump. 64% of republican men rate him positively, 47% of gop women. p.m., hartford, connecticut on c-span, donald 7:00's campaign rally at p.m. eastern on c-span. how in randallstown, maryland. a hillary clinton supporter. -- howard in randallstown, maryland. a hillary clinton supporter. the debate? caller: i thought it was good. i know both candidates have a desire to make america a better place. i believe in personal responsibility and i'm a democrat. i don't believe in free health care. i want my family to have it and i believe that is my

responsibility. hillary clinton is smart, experienced, and knows how to execute a plan. something i have not heard from bernie other than his belief that thing should be changed suddenly without anyone support -- anyone's support -- other than the people that i suppose will march on washington at some point. 's secretary clinton does not get the nomination, would you support bernie sanders? caller: absolutely. he is a fine candidate, but he is offering things that i believe are very hard to get considering there are two parties that are completely different. in norfolk, virginia. a bernie sanders supporter. what is your reaction to the debate? caller: i was able to watch part of the debate on c-span. i thought that bernie sanders made an effective case for rapid

change. in fact, even radical change, due to the worldwide .nvironmental crisis the united states has produced a large portion of the co2 concentration in the atmosphere. norfolk, virginia just clarifying the debate was held on cnn. a hillary clinton supporter, ray in massachusetts. how are you? caller: very good. you know, i drive trucks over the road. look at each state that i go to and can determine which state is run by whom. a republican or democrat. i was just in michigan. hillary clinton knows what she is doing. i like bernie.

if she doesn't make it, then bernie, but hillary is a genius. i worked from where she graduated from for many years, and she is a very smart young lady. host: you made the comment that you can tell which state is run by home by being in it. what do you see? , when i drive through indiana, struggling people. when i drive through michigan, i see people growing. when i drive through minnesota, i see people growing. when i drive through new york, i see people growing. when i drive through places like georgia, i see people struggling. i can tell you who runs a state by being in it. consuming it is neutral and is huge. west virginia is a state that is growing. i can tell you who runs a state.

hillary will do well. host: that is ray in massachusetts. year is more last night's debate talking about banking. lenten mass it is always important to get the facts straight. against the behaviors of the banks when i was a senator. i called them out on their mortgage behavior. i was also willing to speak out against special privileges they had under the tax code. when i went to the secretary of state office, president obama led the effort to pass the dodd frank bill. that is the law. this is our ninth debate. in the prior 8 i said we have a law to review don't just say, we are upset. i am upset. you don't say, go break them up,

we have a law because we are a nation of laws. i support dodd frank, but i have said that is not enough. we have to include shadow banking. secretary clinton called them out, my goodness. they must have been crushed. was that before or after you received huge sums of money by speaking engagements? they must have been very upset. here is the difference, the clear difference. the banks in my view have too much power. they have shown themselves to be ,raudulent organizations endangering the well-being of our economy. if elected president, i will break them up. we have legislation to do that, and the discussion. that "the hill" say

clinton and sanders appeared to skip the postdebate handshake. columbus, ohio, the bernie sanders line. i did not get to see the debate, but i have been watching the political run. i know what's going on. host: political run? caller: the democrat political run. democraticernie, the political run. i am supporting bernie sanders because i am a lifelong democrat . i voted for my president twice, and i appreciate the good work he has done and is still trying to do. that there are things that i found out in the second election that he was elected, how he was elected. not just the voters, but he took big money from the banks.

that stirred me wrong. change, andfor a i'm hoping bernie sanders will bring the change i was hoping to get the first time. host: what do you do in columbus? caller: i'm a nurse aide. host: thank you for watching. cleveland. hillary clinton supporter. hi. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. you know, a lot of the remarks that they made last night, they said them differently. i feel that they agree on some of them when it comes to education and the tax break, and social security trust funds. i am an independent, but if the democrats want to win, if one of those candidates is the president and the other is vice president, we will win.

republican convention is coming to your city. would you think about that? caller: i'm glad. that is money we are going to make. [laughter] host: are you going to be a member of the welcoming committee? caller: no. host: do you think you'll check it out? caller: they are not going to let me in. i will not be able to hear what they discuss. there is no point in going down. host: thank you for calling. "the washington times" this is the beltway column. presidential candidates are circulating in new york with the exception of hillary clinton who will be an outlay on saturday for a public appearance at an , thisoon fundraiser follows a fundraiser hosted by george clooney san francisco where ticket prices reached

$353,400 per couple. the nature sanders will remain in new york city, except to go to the vatican. he has campaigned with his own celebrity following that includes danny glover, spike lee, and tim robbins. ,enator cruz is in binghamton appearing on a forum hosted by fox news, following appearances in rochester and evansville. john kasich is in watertown and utica. donald trump in hartford connecticut and syracuse. he will have a trio of his signature jumbo rallies. the hartford, connecticut rally will be live at 7:00 p.m. on c-span. mike, a bernie sanders supporter in fort meade, maryland. go ahead. caller: i'm not really a bernie sanders fan. i love that he is genuine and

seems to want what is best for the country, but i cannot stand the 40% increase in government. hillary, you know, she doesn't want to release the transcript of bush you said to goldman golly.- he will shows says his tax returns. we will see if that happens. cruz sounds like a slimy used cars those men -- used-car salesman. as a serviceman, most of us are republicans -- there is no one out there. paul ryan or mitt romney, hoping someone saves the day. it doesn't seem like it will happen. host: you say that you are in the service? mike? caller: yes.

host: how long, which branch? caller: 18 years, army, diver. host: thank you for your time. mississippi, hillary clinton supporter. hi, clay. what did you think of the debate? caller: i enjoyed the debate, but there was one very important issue missing that hillary clinton could use to win. she should pray for peace in america. have peace in america. a strong military and peace in america. breaking of the banks, transcripts, it is relevant at peace in america, a strong shouldy, hillary clinton advocate peace in america. thank you for taking my call. delegates,ering the

this bush and "the washington " saying the supporters that support donald trump gathered on thursday to hash out his path to winning the republican nomination before the july convention, including that with their help the real estate developer could secure the forestall aeded to .ontested convention representatives chris collins of new york and duncan hunter of california are leading the effort on capitol hill to deepen the coordination between the trump campaign and republican lawmakers. inernie sanders supporter athens, alabama. -- you are onon host "washington journal." think we do too many debates. running for president lasts too long. i would have preferred to have had elizabeth warren.

i think she would have been an excellent candidate and the best female first president we could have gotten. toight have been inclined support hillary, because i would like to see a woman president, but i have the issue with her that i do not understand, and i would like someone to explain, what is with the pants suits. why will she not dress more feminine? i don't know the right term, but the pants suits make her seem militaristic and richard. jong-il.rsion of kim -- a female version of kim jong-il. host: my guess is that you will hear from people about that remark. the judgment on the pantsuits. ken in randallstown, maryland.

hillary clinton supporter. caller: most candidates are fine. my issue is with bernie sander'' idea. candidates a long time ago, $50, i worked hard to get to where i would am -- where i am. someone has to pay for health care somewhere. there is no system that is free. they're talking higher than what we pay. numberaxes, but that is one. we have a two-party system. they keep saying when i am the president i will break up the banks, it is not that easy. they have to go through the legislature to get anything

done. i promise these things, they have to be careful. understandtrying to the mission. we are not north korea, we are not a country in africa. that is my issue. thank you for calling. in the fights gaps battle for the black vote. like her husband, mrs. clinton has been dogged by your support of the 94 crime law that led to an increase in african-americans being locked up for nonviolent crimes. mrs. clinton acknowledge the legislation lead to consequences that needed to be addressed. she said that she was wrong in

1996 to characterize troubled youths with criminal records from low income neighborhoods as "super-predators." , mrs. clintonffes has pulled strongly among the african-american voters. leaders of the african-american community, including u.s. representative jim clyburn and the congressional black caucus have been among her most for vocal supporters. good morning. -- from florida. i am a bernie sanders supporter. i am a retired african-american professional. i think that what he is saying .bout -- not free medicine

nothing is free. no one is going to get stuff for free. somehow,ll a for it but it is not free and no one free.s for it to be that has been a big thing for me, everyone saying that it is free. host: from what are you retired? caller: nursing. an r.n. to be a policeman, teacher, and travel out of the country. i have a decent view of what is going on in the world, i think. i think that bernie is the guy. i was going to vote for clinton onore president obama was the scene and he won me immediately. i was going to vote for clinton until bernie came along. host: if senator sanders does not get the nomination, will you go with hillary clinton? caller: unfortunately, i will

have to. host: what is your take on donald trump? personally, i cannot think of any good words. they are all disparaging. i cannot figure him out. i don't know why he is running. here's a billionaire. he is not going to do much for us. he has fooled people. why would a billionaire be concerned? for the't he concerned last 40 years about medicine and education? i don't believe him. i don't know what his angle is. host: what is your take on ted cruz? up in: i will get caught libel laws if i say what i feel. i do not think that he is honest. i think he is sneaky. i think that he is in the pocket

of billionaires. that is lonnie in florida. -- is next in south city, wisconsin. how are you? caller: good, thank you. basically, i want to say that i agree with the last caller. bernie-thing, saying they will have free health care and college, that everyone deserves college but he doesn't have a way to pay for it, it would be nice to see a woman president. on the other side, if hillary -- i do not it know if i would vote for bernie. i do know that i am intrigued by donald trump, you brought him up

. he has taken companies from the ground up. in the he can do good economy, but i don't know that he would be able to run it. if he could delegate people around him, put them in the right areas, that might work. i think the lesser of two evils would be hillary. it would be nice to see a woman president. i believe she has credentials and is definitely educated enough. in south city, wisconsin. "the washington post" outlining the foreign-policy doctrine out hearty'sith the presidential standardbearers. speaker ryan laid out his vision for how a commander and chief should engage with the world. contrast to sharp

the policies promoted by republican presidential front-runners donald trump and ted cruz. he declined to directly criticize either candidate, reserving his sharpest arms for president obama. his views show there are fundamental differences between ryan and the leading gop presidential candidates come in who have derided trade partnerships, advocated aggressive military tactics, and shrugged off long-standing geopolitical alliances. ryan said. neocon," what you need to do is have a limited view on the projection because, a limited view these things are never clean and easy. a little bit from "the washington post." you probably saw there was a new docudrama on hbo about

the clarence thomas and anita hill saw that of 1991 -- anita of 1991.the -- saga george h.w. bush council launches website to fact check hpl's "confirmation" movie. played a role in the 1991 senate confirmation hearing of clarence thomas to the supreme court. he is playing a new role when it comes to the upcoming movie starring kerry washington as anita hill, a law professor who accused thomas of sexual harassment. aoletta is leading an effort to fact check the flick. on thursday, he launched a biased.com, a site

he things will combat what he calls pro-hill "false narratives" in the movie. in florida. thank you for holding on. a bernie sanders supporter. what did you think of the debate? caller: i did not see the debate, but i am a bernie sanders supporter. it seems like he has good programs for the people. he has a good vision. i think there is mischaracterization about how everything will be free. he has laid out how you will be paying for things on his website, from what i understand. --h medicare for all everyone's health care is paid for by everyone already. what that does is it cuts out 20%insurance people, saving of the cost of health care. to be paying for

everything that he talks about. it would help. what we have done to take care of the great recession is to pad the accounts of the big banks. they have been at the trough of the federal reserve ever since the great recession. that is what has been slow about the recovery. the new deal, he had all kinds of federal spending to get everyone back to work. that would actually build an economy and have less than $1 trillion in debt by 1980. host: we will leave it there. massachusetts, a hillary clinton supporter. you are the last word. caller: on glad to get in. that hillary is the most accomplished person, including

the democrats and republicans. she belongs in the white house. i am very angry with the media that has been actually pushing bernie sanders and donald trump in our faces. i've seen very little of hillary on the media. i even saw a bernie sanders' wife on joe scarborough yesterday. she started by saying, thank you for letting me on. thank you for being so fair and nice. they are painting themselves as victims. people that have been kicked around. the whole time it is hillary clinton that has been kicked around plenty by the sanders people. they joined in with the republicans. it is disgusting. i will not vote for dean sanders for that reason. i will -- for bernie sanders for

that reason. i will vote for donald trump if for any chance hillary is not the nominee. host: cambridge, massachusetts. , theg up, rick shenkman author of " political animals: how our stone-age brain gets in the way of smart politics." he will be joining us from our new york city studio. cityweekend, our c-span tour continues as we take booktv in american history tv to alabama, the home of the university of alabama. we will feature the history and literary life of this other and city all weekend. here is a preview. the mayor of tuscaloosa talking about its civil war and civil rights history, and the city today. [video clip] in the centrals

part of alabama, 50 miles west of birmingham. hub of what happens in the black belt of alabama. when you look at the tuscaloosa war history, we were accidental intervenors in the war. we could have played a larger role if the capital would not have been moved in 1846 because of an unfair economic incentive that people in montgomery offered for the capital. if it had not moved, tuscaloosa could have been the cradle of the confederacy. during the civil war, business leaders were opposed to tuscaloosa being a part of the war effort. when we resisted we were punished. university was turned into a war college. parts of the city and university were burned down as a result. 100 years later, when we get to the civil rights movement,

ascaloosa decided to take different path. we think of tuscaloosa civil rights as the schoolhouse door. one university wanted to integrate. we had a governor who wanted to for politicaly purposes. it did not reflect the feelings of most within tuscaloosa or the university. we tried to escape that shadow. the business and community leaders, and elected officials, said we have to begin the steps toward integration. you can argue the steps were the stepswe begin where most southern cities continue to light fires that could only serve to burn down their cities, both literally and figuratively. tuscaloosa took steps forward. >> "washington journal." rick shenkman is the

history news network founder and author of " political animals: how our stone-age brain gets in the way of smart politics." henkman, do shark attacks affect elections? guest: 100 years ago in 1916, the worst fear of shark attacks struck southern new jersey. that everyones" had seen was based on the story of what happened then. weeks, four people were kill in shark attacks. what does that have to do with politics? woodrow wilson was up for reelection. but in thejersey, small beach towns devastated by the shark attacks, people heard "shark" and everyone went home.

he was a devastating economic development for that area. , the peoplee vote in those towns voted against woodrow wilson in overwhelming numbers. in the same proportion that those people voted against herbert hoover at the height of the great depression. why? woodrow wilson could not have done anything to help those people solve their shark problem . that was beyond the powers of the president. people are irrational when they vote. particularly, political scientists have found, when bad things happen to them they take angst on the incumbent party whether they are responsible or not. the book is about how our brain works. 40 years ago we did not have an idea of how the brain works. today we do because of nero silence -- numeral science --

neuroscience, anthropology, and that changes how we think our brain operates on politics. host: what do you mean by stone age brain? a lesser for 2.5 million years. the human brain mainly involved. it evolved to help hunter problems address the that they faced as hunter gatherers. evolve to help us in the 21st century address problems that we are facing. our problems are different. and you live in a small community of 150 people, you know and work with everyone. you know your leaders. you are living with them. today, there are millions and billions of people. we do not meet our leaders. we see them on tv.

we often read them wrong and do not understand when they are lying or manipulating. the book is about how you have to protect your self against your own brain. it will trick you into thinking you're living in a small community and you know these people. you don't. host: in the introduction you write that i'm going to tell you the stories of people that have been paid in ways that seem absurd. beingcus on behavior disengaged from politics and apathetic. not correctly sizing up our leaders, punishing politicians that tell us hard truths, and not showing empathy in circumstances that cry out for it. , is there a general impression that you can give of what voters are like in america? guest: i don't know what to do with that question.

give me more. host: are voters curious? guest: good. voters are curious about what is happening in their immediate circumstances. that is what the human brain is designed to do, be curious about things that you can see. half of the brain is devoted to visual tasks. we are responsive to what we can see and what we can feel. when you're in a group of people, you can size them up, read their body language, get a sense of who they are. the ability to have an assess that of who they are and what they are like. you cannot do it in the modern political world, because most of the time you see them on tv. not coming system is into play and you are not focused. if you cannot see someone's eyes and how they are really looking at you, it is hard to read them.

in any case, our brain is playing a trick on us. in the stone age, when we read people's emotions -- if you are going on a hunt and you wanted to look toward the leader, you could tell in a particular moment if he was feeling courageous or frozen by fear. you could read that a motion. you had a deeper understanding of that person because you lived and worked with them. in the modern world, we do not have that personal experience with our leaders, but our brain makes us think that we know them. are we curious? there has never been an example of hunter gatherers not curious about who was leading them. what the human beings do all day? we gossip. who'sps us to understand

up, down, if someone has made a mistake. motives.ng about their we are engaged as human beings in our local politics. in the multicultural world that we live in with millions of people, we do not have that natural nervous system reaction to people that live far away from us. you are in washington the c, -- washington, d.c. i live in seattle. that is far away from washington. and things happen there, it is hard for me in seattle to get excited. do he hadandidates out in a political debate, i can get excited momentarily, but that feeling quickly evaporates. i am a political junkie, so i am paying attention.

most americans are not paying that much attention. they seem to display in difference and a lack of curiosity. that is because of the way the human brain works. it is an indictment of human beings. our brain was not devised for television politics. it was devised for small intimate groups. we are good at those politics, not so good about things happening a long way away. host: should we trust our instincts when it comes to politics? caller: no. that is the main part of the book. in our daily lives we trust our instincts because they prove they are good. if you are walking on the tireslk and you hear screech, your instinct is to look around and pull back to make sure you are not about to get run over. that is the same as if you were a hunter gatherer 100,000 years

ago and you heard a tiger in the woods. he would have a flight or flight response. in our personal lives, often, our instincts work. argue, you can almost never unquestionably go with your instincts, because they are not suited to the problems that we face in the modern world. host: you look at the work of psychologist drew weston. you write about some of his work . here is his explanation of what goes on in our brain when we turn a blind eye toward explanation we find objectionable. when confronted with potentially troubling political information, a network of neuron's becomes active that registers the conflict between data and

desire and searches for ways to shirt off this big it of unpleasant emotion. notice what we do not do. we do not expend cognitive energy to digest the information . we immediately try to reconcile partisanur preferences. can you give an example? guest: let's take the example of what drew weston was talking about. in 2000 four, john kerry versus george w. bush. he put kerry voters in an mri and told them information about john kerry that was not laddering. -- was not flattering. what happened? they briefly registered a reaction that was shock and disfavor with what they were hearing. immediately, their brain shut off that information and the neurons went quiet.

the same thing happened when you mri.ush voters in the they had an initial reaction then went quiet. scientistst social refer to as our immune system. we do not like to find out that a belief that we hold about someone that we like -- it turns out that here is contrary information to what we believe. .hat creates dissonant it makes us feel anxious and bad. it quickly tries to figure out a way to get rid of the information. it does it by closing the door on the information so that the .eurons go quiet our psychological immune system improves and we restore our feeling of well-being. when you're talking about trump

voters, donald trump has been called out by politico and all of these other fact checking organizations for telling one lie after another. like, when he debuted his campaign and started talking about how thousands of muslims were dancing on the rooftops of apartment buildings in new jersey as they watched the twin towers fall. that was not true. what did trump voters make of that? their brain, just like other voters -- it is true of all of us, we do not want to hear bad information. they ignored it. their brain shut off the information. this is how the human brain works. that is what drew weston's research shows. host: " political animals: how our stone-age brain gets in the " is themart politics

book. the numbers are on the screen. democrats, (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001, independents (202) 748-8002. you can dial in and we will take your calls. you can participate on social on twitter.panwj let's begin with robert from massachusetts. he is on the democrats line. caller: i do not know at this guys talking about, but the average person does not know. politicians know that the average person is almost ignorant. tide commercial on tv, and it says it will take the ring off of your husband's neck, the next day that same woman will buy that because of

that powerful commercial. people are not voting with their heart. they are voting with their head. you have to put them together. you have to have a head and heart. when you let the politicians speak on the pulpit, that is the sentence. never let a politician walk into your church and speak on the pulpit. this is for all of you black people from down south. host: let's get a response. rick shenkman waited to hear? guest: the cholerae is right that the american people do not know a lot of fat -- the caller is right here that the american people do not know a lot of facts. we have 100now that u.s. senators. the majority of the american people do not know that we have .hree branches of government

a lot of them believe on the eve of the iraq war that saddam hussein was behind 9/11. that the reason we were invading iraq was to take revenge for him having destroyed the world trade center and attacking the pentagon. are a low information voter, which is unfortunately the majority of the american voters low information are more easily manipulated because they do not know enough. if a politician is articulate, enthusiastic, can make a case and connect with you as one person to another person looking through a tv camera -- if i'm excited, passionate, and you are impressed with my passionate enthusiasm, and what i'm saying makes sense, you do not have the toependent basis

evaluate my argument and information. you are going with your gut. that is what i argue in my book is a mistake. host: tweeting to you that i respectfully disagree. you cannot read politicians from watching them on tv body language is all telling. guest: body language is important. no question. how fast do we make evaluations of candidates? eyesight in the book -- i site in the book that we make up our minds about politicians and anyone we encounter in 167 milliseconds. faster than you can blink your eyes. if you give people more time to make an evaluation, they double initialtheir impression. your brain is playing a trick on you. in the stone age, when we were making superfast evaluations, it

was important. if you encountered a stranger you had to quickly size them up. most of the time, that meant this was a person that was a hostile threat to your life. that you should probably run or kill they guy. for a hunter gatherers and their communities sizing people up, it was not on the basis of body language or facial expression -- it was on the basis of deep knowledge. you are living and working with them. you have an overreliance on body language and you think you can tell if someone is lying to you or telling the truth based on body language, you are deceiving yourself. i may go one step further. when a politician is telling you something, and they believe it you -- you're

cheater that connecting system doesn't work. it only works if those telling the lie think they are buying. politicians are like used car salesman. there good at telling you something. in that moment they can convince themselves that they believe it. you cannot rely on body language. if they are sincere, and politicians are always sincere, your detection system doesn't work. democrat,ara, martha's vineyard. caller: thank you. this is the best news ever. the first day of the new era, which i am christening paleo

politics. there's is our brain on the drugs of politics we don't understand how the brain works. i have a home rigged assignment. -- a homework assignment. you need to assemble evolutionary biology and psychology, get them together with richard, and you assemble them at a book fair somewhere. .his is the story the other thing to do, i want to look back at an e-mail i sent her democrats only in the last segment. it has no text, only visuals. the subject line is "just vote blue." this is my message to how the democrats have to unify. it has a visual pun that i want to see if richard config throughout. this man is walking the walk and talking the talk. last thing, keep using the

emphasis you are using. just like i'm deliberately using it now. there is a penetrative quality .o assertion we are not thinking or hypothesizing, this is the dawn of the new age. host: thank you. rick shenkman, in a response to barbara? caller: well. she was very complimentary and i will not disagree. let's talk about another aspect of how our brain works. neuroscience we have learned that we have two ways of digesting information. system one and system to areas with system one you are taking in information. your matching it with other information that you already have. if there is a close match, your brain doesn't think hard, it

just thinks the new information is like the old information and is treated the same way. system to is higher-order cognitive thinking. guess what we want to do with politics. politicians do not want you to use system to, higher order cognitive thinking. wordsill use red meat that will get your system one juices flowing, so you are not thinking just reacting. republican audience, they will see they -- they will say things like "scary muslim terrorists." orn you are acting fearful angry. you're not thinking, just reacting. democrats do the same thing. story to tell a sob get you to feel empathetic to go with their program. you are not thinking about it. you are reacting.

what i am arguing in the book is that the only way to safeguard yourself against manipulation by politicians is to always second-guessed your automatic reaction. you have to second-guess your automatic reaction. do not trust yourself in politics. that goes against what we learned in the 1960's when it yourself." and personal life, trust yourself. in politics, and don't. connecticut on our democrats line. what is the name of your town? connecticut.ic, i wanted to call and say that i called the debate. i don't think that there should be any more debates.

i hate to see things deteriorate to the level of a gop side. i was very proud of her performance. i think senator sanders did very well also. i hate to see them hurt each primary.the i'm disappointed in senator sanders. i think that him running as a continues tohe criticize hillary to the extent, or each other, that it could hurt us in the long run in a general election. host: let's leave it there.

rick shenkman, given that there was a debate last night, i don't know if you watched it but i know that you have watched some, how would your book guest: let me tell you what i recommend in the book, which is when you are sitting and watching a political debate, basically you are in the same role as somebody who goes and attends a broadway show. what you wind up doing is evaluating the performance of the candidates who are arguing with each other. i do not think that is terribly helpful. what is helpful -- even if you are not a political junkie like most americans, you do other things so you're not really following politics all that closely. you can still gain tremendous, real insight into what is going on in these candidates's campaigns by monitoring your own

emotional reaction. pull out a pen and paper when you are about to sit down and watch one of these debates. every time you feel a strong emotion of some kind -- fear, anger, enthusiasm, patriotism, whatever you are feeling. jot it down next to the candidates name. the debate,f instead of evaluating their performances, look at how you emotionally reacted to what they were saying and you will now have a roadmap to these candidates's campaigns. you will understand how they are trying to manipulate you by the emotional buttons they were trying to push during the debate. it is no accident when they take a certain line at the debate. they have a lot of advisors ahead of that debate telling them that if you say this, the voters will have this reaction. if you say this, the voters will have this reaction. study yourself and you will have a very keen understanding of what the politician's campaigns

are about. it is much more helpful than sitting back like you are at a broadway show and saying this person did well in this person didn't. we play the game, but it is not very helpful. this approach that i'm outlining is more helpful. host: springfield on the republican line, go ahead with your question or comment calle.: caller: i have a comment the guest something made about donald trump saying he saw muslims dancing in the street after 9/11. he is not lying. i have seen this with my own eyes. host: mr. shankman? guest: you did see it with your own wise, because in the middle east, they were dancing and there is videotaped. after 9/11 muslims in the middle east and other parts of the world, people were happy

to see the united states, the big, bad superpower, as it is viewed in some parts of the world, getting knocked down a little bit. people were dancing in the streets, but it was not muslims in america and it was not american muslims doing this, but our brain confuses visual information that it is taking in. at that time, you are seeing this, a registered powerfully on your brain. one of the big shocks on 9/11 besides the attacks themselves, the other big shock was that people hate us to the point where they are happy to see us killed by the thousands. impression powerful on your mind, but you do not see american muslims dancing in the streets. that did not happen. host: pardon me. the next call for rick shenkman comes from suzanne on the independent line. go ahead, suzanne.

caller: hey, rick. what you just said about the politicians'advisors telling them how to go ahead and say what they are supposed to say instead of really answering the question -- that sort of not really in the stone age. everybody is in the reality tv age. what the advisers are telling them to do is how to get the out of theesponse viewers. aboutd of really thinking what the politicians are saying on all these different programs, we are being taken to the reality tv world where everybody

kind of floats along and we don't care about real stuff. we just care about what we think is happening. i don't think the stone ages here. we have progressed a lot from the stone age because we are at the state where we can sit there with a completely empty mind. host: all right, let us get a response from mr. shenkman. guest: we are not living in the stone age. we do have the stone age brain on our shoulders. really very good at helping us understand the problems that we are facing. daily, onee, almost of the political problems that we will face involves the faith of millions of people, whether we are talking about tax policy or whether we should go to war against terrorism.

it is always a policy involving millions of people. designed brain was not to address the problems of millions of people have i. it was designed to address the problems of a small number of people. that is why we have difficulty when we hear, for instance, that we are going to drop bombs in syria on a bunch of towns. we have a very great difficulty imagining the human beings who may be at the other end of the bomb site, who maybe are innocent civilians who are going to get killed. we see that as abstractions because the human brain is only capable of really seeing people as humans when they are standing in front of us. then we get them as human beings. the thought of, wow, this mother walking with a child is going to be blown up by a bomb -- we find

that horrifying as human beings. talk about bombing people who dress differently than us, look differently than us, who live in a part of the world that we cannot even find on a map, than they are not human beings at all at that point. they are just abstractions. it is far easier inapplicable debate to say like ted cruz saying, just carpet bomb them. that is being careless with other people's lives. it is not being sensitive to the fact that some human beings who are innocent might get killed. but our brain does not work that way. we do not think that way and that is a problem. host: wild and wonderful tweets into you, mr. shenkman. " basically you're saying we are pavlov's ho have lost dogs.

just ring the bells and we salivate." guest: i'm not saying that at all. i am saying that if you stimulate acts, there will get a white response. human beings with higher order of cognitive thinking. this is a story that i tell when i go on the road and give talks because i did this this past week on a couple of occasions. i tell the story of jesse washington. 100 years ago in 1916, the same year as the shark attack that we start of the program talking about, in 1916, jesse washington was a black man accused of a crime down in waco, texas. the authorities put him in jail. came, broke them out of jail, put them on a tree, castrated him, cut off his fingers, set them on fire, and they killed him. we all heard about lynchings. this one took place before a

crowd of not 10 or 15 people but of 15,000 people. there are pictures of this crowd and they are not horrified but what they are seeing -- by what they are seeing. they are cheering or pleased by what they are seeing. 100 years later, we find this horrific. repulsion findsle this hard to conceive. what is going on here? this is because our culture has changed. pavloviant have loft dogs. in politics most of the time, we are not thinking. we are simply reacting. we have the capacity to think. this is the wonderful thing about human beings. we are not slaves to our instinct. we can actually think our way

thinkh our problems if we to take the active actually thinking. host: back to your book, "political animals," you write that in mainstream politics, anger undermines democracy. people who are angry cannot see others' points of view. angry people don't compromise. guest: this is the big problem facing the united states right now. look, when a small group of people want to create change in america, often there are people who are very, very angry and they want to see some change happen. so this was true, for instance, of the civil rights marchers in the 1950's and 1960's. when connor down in alabama let loose these dogs on crowds of civil rights protesters, you can

be sure though civil rights protesters were really in a popping -- hiding hot angry mood. those groups need anger to achieve group cohesion and to get anything done. against them are so powerful that they need anger to keep them going every day and fight the good fight. when the majority of the american people turn angry, democracy stops. anger is like grit in the gears of democracy and those gears cannot grind properly if those people are angry. we know this from science. that is what my book is all about. it is learned from what science is telling us about our brains. what happens when we are angry? the insula in the brain is activated. when the insula is activated, we don't compromise.

we become close minded and not open to fresh viewpoints. when the amygdala is activated in the human brain, that is the seat of emotional power. we can get anxious. while we do not like to feel anxious, anxious people have an open mind and are more likely to compromise. but angry people don't. we are in a situation today where a majority of people are angry. it is very bad for our democracy. we have to get the anger out of our politics or we will not couple's anything. host: alan in maryland, democrat. go ahead with your question or, comments. caller: good morning of thank you for taking my call. i want to ask your guests to questions -- guest two questions. you mentioned during the kerry scandal that certain

parts of the brain fire off signals and then they shut down. what would you recommend for individuals who hear that false and that is a shocker for us and they shut down and do not believe it anymore? what recommendation do you have for them? belief in one is this our current elections that people are angry. they do not want to believe they are angry, but they are angry. what is your solution for that anger? you said it is hard to shut down an angry mob. i really would like to hear your comment on that solution. host: all right, thank you, sir. rick shenkman? guest: i struggle with this just

like everybody does. we are human beings and we are going to have our instant reactions. i have a partisan brain just like everybody. when i hear favorable things about the candidates that i like , i really listen closely because of confirmation bias. that's a really good point. when i hear the information about somebody i like, i think that's not true. that cannot possibly be right. i just dismiss it. how do you get around that? how do you get around your own brain? if you become aware of how your brain can undermine your search for truth, and that is what i argue in the book, we are not really after the truth. we are after the truth that reinforces our version of reality. how can you get around that? there is no magic formula.

you just have to be aware that this is how your brain works. you have to question everything. you constantly have got to subject your own opinions to a real, sober, honest assessment of why you believe what you believe. the caller was asking about anger. how do you get around anger? ,hen you are in an angry mood if you are married, every once in a while, you'll get angry at yourselves. at that moment, you really cannot think straight. you've got to wait until yukon down and then you reflect. that is when spouses decide they will make up. you have got to have that same approach in politics. not keep listening to the same sources that just qqq revved up and in an angry mute -- keep you revved up and in an

angry mood. if you are watching a tv show or listening to some jockey on the radio who has got you all read done all the time, tune him out for a while. take a break from it. take a week or two weeks off. con down to the point where you can think a little bit more clearly. when you are in the grip of anger, you cannot think straight. that is just the way human beings are built. understanding how our brain is built is what the book is all about. host: in february on this program, we got a call from somebody named kino in lakeland, florida, who suggested that we have rick shenkman on the program. i believe this is kino calling and now. caller: good morning and praise be for c-span. most definitely i read mr. shenkman's book. let me make him aware that

people have the bipartisan working group in congress. i recommended they take your book and have a book report for all of congress to be aware of your book. the other thing that you talk about where we dwell on anxieties that bring about cooperation, i recommend that this bipartisan working group, with the 10 most serious problems facing the united states before they try to seek solutions. they define what the problems are and what needs to be addressed. i want you to be aware i'm being a citizen advocate for that group and i'm using your book as one of the main thrust. i also want the presidential candidates to come up with the 10 most years problems they think e facing the country. the presidential candidates to go on book tv and recommend books people can read for a more intellectual approach rather than a emotional approach.

i think c-span for what it does for our nation and i'm so glad they had you on today. theware that i've asked bipartisan congressional working group to come up with a definition of 10 most serious problems facing the nation. what might be your reaction? guest: well, first of all, thank viewerstelling c-span that they ought to read my book. an author always wants to hear that. i'm really delighted that c-span listen to you and that his wife sitting here today. that is really great. can we talk about anxiety for a moment? a lot of what i say sounds so negative. turns us into unthinking partisans. we get angry and we cannot evaluate politicians. we are subject to manipulation easily.

i want to talk about something that is positive and what the color just mentioned -- anxiety is one of the positive things. when you are anxious as a human being, it is a very unpleasant feeling, isn't it? it is something that we do not want to feel anxious. anxiety is a wonderful thing. it is your brain telling you that you need to reevaluate your impression of something. if you have a view of the world and the way the world works, and you now have some evidence before you that says the world is not working the way i think it works, or i have a belief about a particular candidate and now i just got evidence that that candidate actually is behaving in a way that is contrary to what i thought about that candidate, i thought i understood them. maybe i did not really understand them. when we get that anxious

feeling, we reevaluate our opinions. most of the time, we do not bother to reevaluate our opinions. the reason for that is that takes effort. that literally takes brain energy. your brain consumes 20% of your body's energy every single day. what that means is your brain is constantly looking for ways to not overwork because that requires more energy. back in the stone age, it was hard to get protein and a lot of energy. the brain evolved to be extremely prudent and looking for shortcuts all the time. that is why we do not do harder cognitive thinking and politics most of the time. our brain does not want us to think hard because that means more new runs are literally firing and that will consume more energy. rather than think hard, it goes to the default position and we are just going to go with the flow and go with our normal reactions.

with anxiety, our brain is telling us to stop. you cannot just go with the flow. you've got to really think hard. yup got to use higher order cognitive thinking. brain telling you, time to engage and think hard. when you are watching a political debate and you feel a little anxious, do not try to shut that anxiety down to pay attention to it. that is your brain telling you there is a mismatch between a belief and what the facts are. .ime to reevaluate saying he isller back in this bipartisan group in congress, that is wonderful. that is what is needed if we are ever going to get anything done. this is a democracy. it only works when people in both parties are at the very minimal talking to each other. betweenput up walls

them and they only talk to their own supporters, democracy won't work. york.client is in new please go ahead, clyde. caller: what you are saying is fantastic. you need to get together with ted weiss and you need to go on a tour. journalismellow because i was a broadcast student. it might've been psychology. i like to use a different word than what you use. i like to call it probably troglodytes. amazing. racism -- it is amazing.

that is why i said you need to go on a tour together. host: who is tim weiss? caller: i think you had them on last sunday. no, it was free speech tv. he wrote a book, "black like me." he speaks about white privilege, systematic racism, so forth and so on. with these guys both teaming up together, i think they can do a lot of constructive stuff in this country. host: all right, thank you, sir. rick shenkman, any reaction? wants to payebody to send me around the country and talk to audiences, i am all in favor of it. run thee a day job and history news network website where historians are putting the news into historical perspective , but i can take some time out to go on the road. host: helen in winthrop, maine,

democrat. please go ahead with your question or comment. caller: good morning. i was struck by a comment that author michelle goldberg made the other day on chris hayes's show about policy currents and how generally speaking, the population is really a verse two people who are blatantly policy occurred. it is magnified when the power seeker is a woman. some ofhis to explain the antipathy people have toward candidate clinton, i'm wondering if your book addresses the whole issue of gender and how this plays into the current political field. and also, the role of religion, where we know that many subjugation ofe women has been part and parcel of our history. i hope you would care to address

those. host: go ahead, rick shenkman. guest: i think those are great points. i chose not to focus on gender. was that a lot of books have been written about the importance of gender and politics. i do not want to throw another book on that pile. i wanted to draw attention to the four problems that i identify in the book, which is problems with curiosity, the problem with truth and our biases, the problem with empathy, and so forth. i do not really focus on that. i do agree with everything that you said. those are all very, very good points. host: rick shenkman, you quote thomas bailey. "every foreign-policy crisis in u.s. history was shaped decisively by public opinion."

guest: thomas bailey was a stanford historian for 40 years. he was the author of the textbook that i and millions of others used in high school. it was called "the amazing touch pageant." he also wrote a book called streetn the : public opinion." "the course of human history, you'll find that politicians, congress, the president, they were creating policy around public opinion. it makes sense because we are a republic or a democracy, whatever you want to believe about our system of government. there is a big raging debate on the internet about that. public opinion is key.

woodrow wilson said if you got the public behind you, you can accomplish anything. the problem is that if the public does not know that much, but the politicians are letting public opinion guide their foreign-policy, we wind up making blunders. the iraq war is just a classic example. a president was able to gin up support for this war by playing on people's fears about 9/11. he was able then to turn around and launched this war without even a congressional declaration of war. did get a resolution of support, but it was not a full-blown declaration of war. that is a problem. crisisany foreign-policy , you will see that is a problem. sometimes in world war ii, pearl harbor gets attacked. the public says we have got to take revenge and do something. that was the right policy. most of the time, the public

does not have an independent basis grounded in fact upon which they are making their opinion. the politicians, whether it is basic fact or not, are usually following public opinion. they are usually slaves to public opinion. that is a problem. host: rene in houston, texas, we have 15 seconds. caller: thank you very much. i wanted to address spirituality. i do not think i heard you mention anything about that and what a person believes in their mind is right. you are speaking so much about public opinion and what is what and what is right and what is wrong. what is people feel right is based on their spirituality. host: rick shenkman, you 15 seconds to answer that question. guest: i believe along with

social scientist jonathan hiatt from the university of virginia that our moral values are in nate and we believe what we believe about it. just subject your moral findings to rational, higher-order cognitive thinking. author of shenkman, "political animals." he is also the founder of the history news network. thanks for being on "washington journal." guest: thank you very much. to stone age brain.com to find out more about my research. host: this weekend, first of all, tonight at 7:00 p.m., donald trump is live from hartford, connecticut for a campaign rally. this weekend, c-span2 and c-span3 become book tv and american history tv. 48 hours of nonfiction books and authors on c-span2, american

, 48 hours of history on c-span3. thanks for being with us today. the house is coming in and just a minute and it will be looking at broadband internet access and the rates that are charged for that. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] rayer will be offered by our chaplain, father conroifment -- conroy. chaplain conroy: let us pray. gracious and merciful god, we give you thanks for giving us another day. you bring forth blessings from just deeds. listen to our prayers for the members of this people's house. give them the wisdom to meditate upon your revelation, your law. help them find confidence in your love, especially in times of difficult. -- difficulty. may their efforts reflect the mindset and gracious manner revealed in your loving commands, and may their work contain the depth of justice and