>>today and republican front-runner donald trump also in the hoosier state campaigning in south bend, indiana. c-span2 will have live coverage starting at 7:00 p.m. a poll has in leading senator cruz. a real politics poll has that lead at four points. >> this editorial in the indianapolis star. a president trunk would -- president trump would be -- joining us on the phone is matthew tully, political columnist for the indianapolis star. thank you for being with us. how does the newspaper really feel about these republican candidates?

guest: i think what you saw here was a newspaper editorial decision that was critical of john kasich for pulling out of indiana. my guess is we would have had a different decision if he decided to campaign in the state next to his. it's hard to endorse someone who kind of throws in the towel before the voters get a chance. >> the polls show donald trump maintaining a slim lead in advance of next tuesday's indiana primary. >> the writing on the wall seems to indicate that he's going to do well next week. please had a steady week. cruz has made a lot of news. the more dramatic candidate with some of his decisions. the alliance with kasich. the carly announcement and a couple flubs here and there. trump has been the steady noncontroversial candidate in this week's race.

interesting to see what happens. we have not had a poll in several days but it seems like this is a race that has been such a national race for so long. i do think there were too many undecided voters. >> a few days ago you wrote an essay that began with the headline, even at a ted cruz event it's all about donald trump. >> i was at a ted cruz event at a diner on the south side of indianapolis. it struck me that these two diners start talking about trump. what was a trump supporter one was a cruz supporter. all they were talking about was trump. that came after ted cruz giving appearance tormal the press at all he talked about was donald trump. even a ted cruz rally, the focus was on the front runner. >> let me go back to the

editorial because every four years people often say is this the best we can choose. you write an editorial that in a nation of 20 -- 320 million people this is a disappointing field of candidates. is this any different than what we saw 16 years ago? >> i think this is a particularly distressing field for a lot of us. particularly the republican side especially when you take out john kasich was a nonfactor in indiana and not running. donaldief is just that trump is in no way suited for the presidency and ted cruz has been nothing but show he is up for the job of bringing the country together. the last time indiana's primary matter of the democrat side you had hillary clinton and barack obama and there were strong feelings on both sides but what you did not have was this idea

that i wish we could start over with new candidates. if anything people had a tough time choosing between the two because they like them both. >> based on your column today which is available online at indy star.com, is donald trump a bully? >> absolutely. that word several times in my columns over the months. that column was written after one of the most highly respected pediatric doctors in the state said you need to make this point that we are not just saying this diagnosis., clinical if you look at how he talks about women, protesters, people that for some reason have irritated him. this is a textbook case, as she said, of bullying behavior.

her point was we spent 20 years trying to tell kids this is inappropriate and you can't do ans and here we are having election is racing someone exhibiting these behaviors. >> and yet he keeps winning. >> you go to his rallies and what i have been struck by, it is not a racially diverse crowd but beyond that it's a very mixed crowd. men and women. people from the upscale suburb. people from rural areas. people from rough parts -- struggling parts of indianapolis. manufacturing workers but also business people. it's been my more diverse crowd that i think i would've expected based on everything i had seen and read leading up to this. anyone who rules him out i think does so at their own peril.

he shown he can connect with people and he definitely connected with evil in indiana. -- connected with people in indiana. even folks who told me i don't agree with everything he says. i think they are saying i wish you and say certain things he does about certain groups or people. even i don't agree with everything he says, i think he's the one who can give us the change we need. when someone believes that i don't think they're going to back away from that. >> you have your pulse on the indiana electorate. what's going to happen tuesday? what role will indiana play in the role to the nomination in cleveland for the ultimate gop nominee? >> i should preface by saying i'm usually wrong about predictions. it sure does seem like this is going to be donald trump's night on tuesday. i will be very surprised if he does not carry the state. he might not win all the

delegates because there are a couple congressional districts that seem tailor-made for ted cruz. it appears donald trump is going to win solidly. on the democrat side it's very hard to predict because hillary clinton has had a slightly in the polls but the clintons really have not done much here. a few appearances but not a whole lot else. i have been surprised after how .ard they worked a small win against barack obama. i thought they would play harder here. either they are looking at polls that show is wrapped up on that side or they just are focusing more on the general. i think that means that bernie sanders has a good chance to compete well here. he is drawing massive crowds especially in college towns with young voters. i think that side is hard to

predict. as far as the convention in cleveland, this is an interesting thing because a week ago i would've told you they have to do what the voters tell them to do. on the second velvet is -- a second bell if it is a very pro-john kasich delegate list. delegates elections were largely lined up behind john kasich. i don't know how they would vote for john kasich in a brokered convention if he gets 10% here and abandon the state before the campaign started. that would be a difficult thing for them to do. >> matthew telly is joining us from indianapolis. thank you for being with us. we appreciate it. >> it was a pleasure. sandersnday, bernie holds a news conference outlining how he could win the nomination. here his remarks.

bernie sanders: mic? ok, thanks very much for being here. on a beautiful sunday afternoon. we announced the beginning of our campaign a year ago. before i talk about the delegate math and our path toward victory, i just want to say a few words about how far we have come in the last year. and i just want to thank the millions and millions of people who have supported us in every way. when we started this campaign, as most of you know, we were considered to be a fringe candidacy. we started with no campaign organization. we started with no money. we started with very little name recognition outside of my own state of vermont. in national polls, we were

trailing secretary clinton by at least 60 points. and in some cases, a little bit more. in this campaign, we have taken on the entire democratic establishment in state after state. we have taken on the senators, the members of the congress, the governors, the mayors. we have taken them all on, and in the clinton organization obviously, we have taken on the most powerful political organization this country. an organization that has won two very successful political campaigns with hillary clinton in 2008. that is what we were up against. that was then. today is today. as of today, we have now won 17 primaries and caucuses in every part of the country. by the way, we hope to make indiana our 18th victory on

tuesday. and we have received some 9 million votes. in recent national polls, we are not behind secretary clinton by 60 points anymore. in the last few weeks actually, there have been a couple of polls that have us in the lead. other polls ha us single digits behind. in terms of fundraising, we have received more individual campaign contributions -- 7.4 million -- than any candidate in presidential history at this point in a campaign. we do not have a super pac. we do not get our money from wall street or the drug companies. or powerful corporations. our money is coming from the middle class and working class of this country, averaging $27 a campaign contribution. and i am very proud of the fact that we have just raised in the last month, we have had a

phenomenally good month, we have raised $25 million, despite the fact that 80% of the primaries and caucuses are behind us. what the political revolution has shown is that we can run a strong, winning campaign without a super pac and without being dependent on big-money interests. as of today -- and i don't know if anyone else has done it. maybe they have, maybe they haven't. i don't know that. but we have brought out over 1.1 million people to our rallies, from maine to california. and that number will go up very significantly because we intend to have a number of major rallies in the state of california. and very importantly, we have won in state after state a strong majority of the votes of younger people.

voters under 45 years of age. in other words, the ideas that we are fighting for our the future of the democratic party and, in fact, the future of this country. again, i'm not just talking about people 23 years of age and younger. we are doing phenomenally well and very proud of that. we are talking about people who are 45 years of age and younger. and the reason for that, i believe, is that the issues we are talking about are the issues that are on the minds of the american people. people know whether you are conservative or progressive that a corrupt campaign finance system of super pac's is undermining american democracy, they understand there is something fundamentally wrong where the average americans working longer hours for lower wages. they understand that we have a

broken criminal justice system, with more people in jail than any other country on earth. they understand that we have got to deal with the planetary crisis of climate change and, among other things, impose a tax on carbon. they understand that at a time we have a major growing crisis with regard to clean water. we need to end fracking. they understand that in a competitive global economy, we need to make public colleges and universities tuition free. and they understand that when you have the grotesque level of income and wealth inequality, yes, large profitable corporations and the top 1% are going to have to pay more in taxes. let me now just say a few words about delegate math, and our path toward victory. as all of you know, there are a total of 4766 democratic delegates. 4047 of them are pledged, i.e.

they come out as a result of the contests in the various states. 719 are superdelegates. superdelegates. a candidate, democratic candidate needs 2383 votes in order to win the democratic nomination. let me be very clear. it is virtually impossible for secretary clinton to reach the majority of convention delegates by june 14. that is the last day that a primary will be held. with pledged delegates alone. in other words, once more, it is virtually impossible for secretary clinton to reach the majority of convention delegates by june 14 with pledged delegates alone. she will need superdelegates to take her over the top as the convention in philadelphia.

in other words, the convention will be a contested contest. currently, secretary clinton has 1645 pledged delegates. 55% of the total. we have 1318 pledged delegates, 45% of the total. there are 10 states remaining, where we are going to be vigorously competing. plus, the district of columbia, puerto rico, the virgin islands, and guam. we believe that we are in a very strong position to win many of these remaining contests, and we have an excellent chance to win in california, the state with far and away the most delegates. for us to win, the majority of pledged delegates, we need to win 710 out of the remaining

1083. that is 65% of the remaining pledged delegates. that is, admittedly, and i do not deny it for a second, a tough road to climb. but it is not an impossible road to climb. and we intend to fight for every vote in front of us and for every delegate remaining. in terms of superdelegates, i would like to just say the following. obviously, we are taking on virtually the entire democratic establishment. and it's amazing to me -- and i just have to thank our volunteers -- that we go into state after state. you've got the senators, you've got the governor, and you've got the mayors, all of them know how to get out the vote. yet in 17 primaries and caucuses, despite all of that political establishment support, we have won. of the 719 superdelegates, many

of those delegates committed themselves to secretary clinton even before we got into this campaign. in other words, way back then, she was the anointed candidate. and they said, we are with hillary clinton. while she has 520 superdelegates, we have all of 39 superdelegates. in other words, while we have won 45% of the pledged delegates in real campaigns where the people have spoken, we have won only 7% of the superdelegates. two points regarding that. first, those superdelegates, in states were either candidate, secretary clinton or myself, has won a landslide victory, those superdelegates ought to seriously reflect on whether

they should cast their superdelegate vote in line with the wishes of the people of their states. let me just give you an example of what i mean by that. in the state of washington, we won that caucus with almost 73% of this vote, of the vote there. 73% of the vote. in anybody's definition, that is a massive landslide. but at this point, secretary clinton has 10 superdelegates from the state of washington. we have zero. i would ask the superdelegates from the state of washington to respect the wishes of the people in their state and the votes they have cast. in minnesota, we won the caucus there with 61% of the vote. hillary clinton has 11

superdelegates. we have three. in colorado, we won that state with 59% of the vote. pretty strong margin. secretary clinton has 10 superdelegates. we have zero. new hampshire, we won that state with more than 60% of the vote. secretary clinton has six superdelegates. we have zero. and that pattern continues in other states where we have won landslide victories. i would hope very much that the superdelegates from those states where we have won with big margins or where secretary clinton has won with big margins, to respect to the wishes of the people of those states and vote in line with how the people of that state voted. secondly, and extremely importantly, secretary clinton

and i obviously have many differences of opinion on some of the most important issues facing our country. we disagree on trade policy. on breaking up wall street banks. we disagree on the minimum wage. i want to raise it to $15 an hour, she wants to raise it to $12 an hour. we disagree on whether we should impose a tax on carbon. we disagree with climate change. i believe we should. we disagree about the extent to which the wealthy and profitable multinational corporations should be asked to pay their fair share of taxes. we disagree on fracking. i believe we've got to end fracking in this country. we disagree on a number of other issues. but where secretary clinton and i strongly agree, and where

every delegate to the democratic convention strongly agrees, is that it would be a disaster for this country if donald trump or some other right wing republican were to become president of the united states. therefore in my view, it is incumbent upon every superdelegate to take a hard and objective look at which candidate stands the better chance of defeating donald trump and other republican candidates. and in that regard, i think the evidence is extremely clear, that i would be the stronger candidate to defeat trump or any other republican. and this is not just on the subjective opinion of bernie sanders. i'm not here just to tell you

that this is what i think or this is what i believe. i think this is really what the objective evidence tells us. this is based on virtually every national and state poll done in the last several months. i know that the polls go up and down, but when you have poll after poll after poll nationally saying that sanders can defeat trump, by in some cases, a much greater margin than clinton, i think it is worth paying attention to that. in a morning consult survey, we beat trump by 16 points. she beat him by seven. these are recent polls. usa today, i beat him by 15. she beat him by 11. george washington university, we beat him by 10, she beats or three. fox news has us beating trump by 14. she beats him by seven. she is beaten by seven that she beats him by seven. everyone knows that you win the electoral vote, taking place in 50 states in this country.

and if you look at virtually every battleground state, in arizona, in michigan, in missouri, and in many other states which are up for grabs, maybe one by the republican or maybe one by the democratic candidate, in every one of those states, we defeat trump by larger margins that she does. further, equally important, but recent elections tell us is that when the voter turnout is high, when people come out in large numbers, democrats and progressives win. people are excited. they come out. young people come out. working-class people come out. people don't always vote come out. democrats win. on the other hand, republicans win elections when the voter turnout is low. that is exactly what we saw in the last national election of

2014, win 63% of the american people didn't vote. there is little doubt in my mind that the energy and excitement in this campaign is with the work we have done. and i believe that energy and excitement among working-class people, among middle-class people, young people, will translate to a very large voter turnout in november which not only will mean victory for the white house, it will mean victory for senate races, u.s. house races, and governors races throughout this country. this is an issue that i hope the superdelegates will pay keen attention to. i understand that some of them prefer secretary clinton, fair enough. some people prefer me, fair enough.

but at the end of the day, when every person in the philadelphia convention understands, we must have the strongest candidate to defeat trump or another republican. and i think they objective evidence is that i am that candidate. thanks very much. we will take a few questions. we are off to indiana in a few minutes, but let me start with lisa, lera. are you here? >> [inaudible] superdelegates. i believe in 2008, president obama convinced several dozen to switch their position. never before of course has were delegates gone against the person, flipped against the person who lead in pledged delegates. how realistic is this halfway? bernie sanders: let me say it again. we have an uphill climb. no question about it. it is not coined to be easy.

nothing i am telling you today suggests this a be an easy fight. again, we don't know what is going to happen on indiana on tuesday. let me put this into your mind. what happens if we do really, really well in the remaining 10 states? and what happens if the polls continue to show that bernie sanders is the strongest candidate against donald trump? do i believe that there will be some superdelegates -- how many? nobody can tell you. there'll be some that say, i came on the clinton campaign before sanders got in. but i want to rethink this. because what is most important is beating donald trump. this, and that is and if, but if that scenario plays out, i think you will have a lot of superdelegates who say, you know what's most important? it is most important that we defeat donald trump in november.

john, did you have a question? >> [inaudible] more superdelegates than hillary clinton has claimed, another 23 that are uncommitted. are those kinds of numbers enough to -- bernie sanders: no, they are not, john, but it's just part of the process. in other words, those are delegates -- when you are dealing with two superdelegates i think there were two points. lisa asked one question, you are asking the other. if i have 70% of the vote, i think i am entitled to those. i think that the superdelegates should reflect what the people in the state want. that's true for hillary clinton as well. i can't tell you one thing for me and another thing for hillary clinton. if she wins mississippi, by whatever, huge numbers --

superdelegates there should vote for her. that's one issue. but the issue i just spoke to lisa about is a different issue. and that is while i think i say, hey, we are entitled to pick up many dozens of superdelegates, i think the real struggle will be in the hearts and minds of superdelegates who came on board the clinton campaign a long time ago. and they are going to have to go into their hearts, and they are going to have to ask themselves, do they want the second strongest candidate to run against trump, or do they want the strongest candidate? i'm not making any productions, nothing guaranteed, but i think some of the superdelegates that announced for clinton before i even got into the race will say, you know what? bernie has a better chance of beating trump. jeff, are you still here? jeff, did you have a question? >> donald trump said on fox news sunday that he is intrigue by some of your message that you have used to take on secretary clinton. any plans to use that message as soundbites are arguments? going forward as you continue to the rest of this, do you plan to change your tone, and you and you are contributing to this

campaign by helping him advance? bernie sanders: i want to congratulate donald trump, who has managed to manipulate the media in an unprecedented way. every word he says is three hours on cnn or some other station. no, the republican party and trump have the resources to do all the opposition research that they want on secretary clinton. they don't need bernie sanders's critiques of the secretary. and as i have said before, when you look at a donald trump who wants to give hundreds of billions of dollars in tax breaks to the top 2/10 of 1%, a man, despite all of the scientific evidence, thinks that climate change is a hoax. a man who thinks we should not raise the starvation minimum

wage of $7.25 per hour. i think in the general election matter who runs against him, this guy will not be a strong candidate. i know, and you should know, what trump is trying to do. >> he is saying it is your voice. it is not the research, the fact you are saying it. bernie sanders: no, i think that's nonsense. i'm glad he can get through it. what is a campaign about? a campaign is supposed to be about not just political gossip. it is actually supposed to be about differentiating the points of view the candidates have. secretary clinton and i have different points of view on a number of issues. and i have tried my hardest not to run an issue oriented campaign, explaining the differences we have. i may be old-fashioned, but i kind of think that that is what democracy is supposed to be about. as you heard me say a million times, i do wish media paid more attention to why the middle class in this country is disappearing.

every now and then mentioned climate change. i don't want to much out of this. trump is trying in a number of ways to tap into my support. if i lose the nomination, he will not get that support. if i lose the nomination, and we are doing everything we can to win it, and i will fight as hard as i can to make sure donald trump does not become president. is nicole here? "usa today"? john nolan, cbs? john here? are you here? did you have a question? >> what have you heard back in reaching out to superdelegates and asking them to look at your wins and ones you may win over? bernie sanders: again, there are two separate issues. it's not just me.

it is people in the states. if you live in colorado, if you live in some of the other states, minnesota, where we have one landslide victories, i think the superdelegates are hearing from the people in their own state saying, hey, you know what? how about representing the people of our state, colorado, minnesota, or whatever state it may be. and we have got to begin the conversation with many of the superdelegates who signed on with secretary clinton very early on. and if, i think the objective evidence, and people say we still have time to go, we have through june 14. if the evidence is there, that we are by far the strongest candidate, we will win some of those folks over. dan of the guardian? dan, hey dan. >> [inaudible] looking back, what prompted you

to achieve this? [indiscernible] bernie sanders: not into legacy, dan. right now in the next month and a half we are fighting to win every delegate that we can. i hope my legacy will be that i was a very good president of the united states. [laughter] mary alice here? there you are. >> if you do not secure the majority of pledged delegates, do you still believe that superdelegates should switch and back you as you are projecting the opinion of the voters? bernie sanders: well, you know, it's a funny thing. right now, we have state after state where i have won landslide victories, and superdelegates have said, we don't have to listen to the people. by the way, i hope we will win the pledged delegates, but at

the end of the day the responsibility of those delegates is to decide what is the best for this country and what is best for the democratic party. and if those superdelegates include the bernie sanders is the best candidate, the strong as candidate to beat trump and any other candidate, we would welcome their support. danny freeman, nbc? >> [indiscernible] in california you said you're going to hold a lot of big rallies. have there been any lessons learned from states like new york were you predicted you would do better that you apply to these upcoming primaries? bernie sanders: good question. and thanks for giving me the

opportunity to answer that. new york state, what are we, 42%, 43% of the vote? 3 million independents in new york state were disenfranchised. they could not vote because of the crime of writing down the they were independents. i think that's absurd. i can't tell you, and i will not tell you, if they were allowed to vote, and by the way, in most polls, in most contests, we do far, far better than clinton in the independent vote. sometimes when you get two out of three votes. i cannot tell you that we would have won. i don't know. no question, though, that we would have done much, much better. so we walk into, not only are we taking on -- i don't mean to cry here, but we know we are getting into. we know what the rules are, we accept them. we are doing the best that we can. but please appreciate that in state after state, where

independents cannot vote, we are at a real disadvantage. and it's a little bit absurd because independents do vote in a general election. so democrats want the strongest candidate out there to take on a republican, i think it's pretty dumb to be excluding independents, and i hope we will fight, whether i win or not, to change those rules. frankly, in hindsight it is always, you know, you could always think about things that you could have done better. i will tell you about that. at the end -- that's true for any campaign. i'm sure if you talk to clinton's campaign, they will tell you the things they could have done better. but i am enormously proud of the campaign that we have run up to this point, and i hope it gets better. any of you here who would bet that on may 1, bernie sanders

would have won 17 primaries and caucuses? if you had the odds, a year ago, i think you wouldn't be sitting here. very wealthy individuals. if you have guessed that is odds, you would be very wealthy individuals. we are very proud of the campaign he ran. is really here? millie? ok, yes. what did you want? and that may be the last question. we have got to catch a plane here. >> can you talk a little bit more about what clinton said about reaching out to sanders supporters? bernie sanders: pardon me? ok, ok. all right, listen, thank you very much. we got to catch a plane to get to south bend. ok, see you. bye-bye. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] >> tomorrow is primary in

indiana. ted cruz talking with voters. c-span will have live coverage at 7:30 this evening. donald trump in the hoosier state. south bend, indiana. c-span2 has live coverage. leadings donald trump center cruz. -- senator cruz. madam secretary. votes to theegate next president of the united states.

[cheering] >> for the last two months presidential candidates have discussed immigration reform plans. an event looking at illegal immigration in the u.s. and economics of immigration reform. the american jewish committee of houston hosted the event. gentlemen.nd thank you. good evening. my name is richard fulton, director of national and legislative affairs for the american jewish committee. i'm pleased to welcome you to this evening's program. ajc institutehe for latino and african-american affairs -- latino and latin american affairs.

timelyuld not be a more coming together and discussion. i can't say whether it was on the front page or not but the wall street journal ran a major story on the thorny economics of illegal immigration. that story -- they knew we were holding the session. few issues ins the presidential campaign are more explosive than whether and how much to track and crackdown on illegal immigration. this is a timely issue not only because of the campaigns because -- but because it has been a timely issue for too many years as many of us have struggled to bring about reform of our broken immigration system. were going to hear tonight about economics of immigration reform. it is a timeless story, the

story of immigration. as bruce springsteen writes in america land about the throngs sought to make their home in this american land. mcnichols, the smiths, the blacks come of the irish, the italians and the jews. they came across the water a thousand miles from home with nothing in their bellies of the fire down below. they died building the railroads , worked to bones and skin, they died in the fields and factories , names scattered in the wind. they died to get your 100 years ago, still dying now, the hands that built the country were always trying to keep out. as randy noted in his introductory remarks, hvac is is committed to immigrants as a value.

as also the case that immigrants 100 years ago and today are the hands that built this country. today we are going to talk about how important it is to the well-being of this country, to our economy. how important immigrants have been to our country's economy. i'm going to invite up to join , ray perryman. the gentleman to my right. -- hereing to have brief remarks from our respondents beginning at my far jesus romero. we will then hear from todd shelti, present a forward u.s.

to my immediate right we will hear , director ofrdock texas at center at rice university. ray, please join me at the podium. [applause] thank you very much. i'm kind of clumsy's are not going to try to wait my way to the podium. i was talking to the house legislative caucus a mother so ago and kind of the had 28 inch podium and we i found out was i was away from the steps and when just meed in the -- it i have a 26 inch vertical lead. i could not say any of the words that were coming to me. it's great to be here with you talking about this important topic. i appreciate richard being here. steve murdock and todd and

jesus. i appreciate everybody that put this together. it is a very important issue we need to talk about. one moretalk about it, little thing about myself. i just recently got an award i'm proud of. i grew up in a town of about 1000 people in the just started interesting with alumni award. community distinguished alumni l,ndow, texas -- of wendel texas. i saw some old friends and my wife asked me what it was like in a town that small. what were the challenges? it was a small town. i said we had to take drivers education and sex education in the same car. and then she thought about a minute and said, that makes sense you don't drive very well either. [laughter]

>> just an idea of how much respect i get at home. you have been hearing and you're going to hear a lot about this issue in the coming months. were in an election cycle. we can't avoid it. it is to be with us for a few months. hearing a lot of things said, some very compassionate, some cruel, some in between. it's going to be talked about a lot. the conversation is going to shed a lot more heat than light on the issue. what i'm trying to do and what them like is called we see them. i'm going to start with one very simple number that frames this issue for the state of texas are you a few years ago we did a 50 state study. the numbers are different but every state had the same general direction of impact. what we hear all the time is in

the rhetoric, these folks are taking jobs away from americans. let me give you a simple statistic. twice as many undocumented workers working in the state of texas today as there are unemployed people in the state of texas today. twice as many people went to work today or undocumented in the state of texas as people on the unemployment rolls in the state of texas. never mind that a lot of those folks are unemployed for all kinds of reasons. don't have physical skills to do some of those jobs. don't have the training to do a lot of those jobs. put that aside. it's pretend for the moment you swap them out one for one. let's say you could. you would suddenly have a gap of about 2000 workers in state of texas in one day. how would you go about filling

cap. the answer is, you wouldn't and it would create a difficult and disruptive situation. that's the basic economics of the situation. markets have always had remarkable ability to find ways to get things done. reason we have a lot more undocumented workers today than 30 years ago is very simple. the baby boomers got old so we had to -- we had shortages of workers are you we did all kinds of things to fill the shortage. --ase encouraged more folks more legal immigrants to come in. we put daycare and childcare and everything else in the work is to keep you working. we started job sharing. started looking for work from home. we started using more and more technology to take the place of workers. start encouraging retired people to come back to the workforce.

all because the market same fine more. work. started having more undocumented workers. a lot of folks did really good work on this you can track the numbers and it fluctuates with the economy. during good times you have more. during other times, less. it's a labor force. that's the response you get. given that we ask these questions, what is the economic impact this workforce. we did some numbers. both the direct members of the folks working and the multiplier effect on those things. if you don't like multipliers with 10% of the texts economy. we are looking at somewhere between 1.2 and 3 million jobs.

we are looking somewhere between .50 billion and 300 billion roughly around the 20% number. those are very big numbers. indicate how important it is. the other thing you hear. i call these things like the numbers come out. everything you hear is these folks are such a drain on the public service system. reality.e when people come up with those numbers and you see them .eleased all the time when a person works, the tax revenue they generate is not just the tax revenue they pay. when a person works by definition they are working for somebody else and producing something. the fact that they produce that

generates additional tax dollars. i'm just talking with them in fact that the work was done that comes directly a result of those folks. you recognized a lot of taxes are paid for which no benefits are drawn. we tried to measure every way to be as conservative as we could. -- as i knowded it's a controversial issue. you have undocumented ahrendts and have an american citizen child, we included the child. we are all in impacts. the federal government makes about $20 billion a year off these folks. the state of texas government makes about $11 billion in things are considered. even local governments make almost $1 billion and $800 million.

that would surprise me that we have some high evaluated industries for some of these folks working and it made the difference. some government sectors right now that come up behind in the system. if you look at local government, most of the revenue they generate a sales tax. most sales tax goes to cities. the services they consume are typically healthcare services and education services which are provided by school districts and counties. up ofuently, the carve the local money does not always match the needs. there are some local governments going through some strains and difficulties in the system. when you have a surplus on the total there's a simple way to fix that. it's not hard at all if you have extra money in the system. it wasn't for that st thing

called politics. it would not be hard to solve that problem. this is a vital part of our economy. i'm leaving politics out of it. this is a vital part of our economy. we don't have a way to replace this workforce. whether you are a conservative, liberal, compassionate, not compassionate. any dollars and cents numbers by we need to have policies that make sense in this regard. it becomes very simple and you look at it that way. if you create policies that make it harder economic cost will be higher. if you create policies that make it more efficient where workers can be here in a way that is not the cruel way they sometimes have to give your now. if you make it a more rational

process for them to get here and work and the contributors economy you make the system more efficient. economists look at things whether it is efficiency reducing or enhancing. a lot of what we do today is efficiency reducing. a lot of what's being proposed is really efficiency reducing. so many different scenarios. we did one scenario -- one where he made it difficult. took some amalgamations from proposals. if you make it a lot harder. the cost to the state comes hundreds of thousands of jobs.

it is very much a case of economic opportunity and economic need that drives them here and it is an important contribution. the workers span a lot of different industries. the number in the oil and gas sector. a large percentage of them are agricultural workers. workers in the hospitality industry and workers in the construction industry. they give you had an economy where you could not grow anything will build anything, or go anywhere. if you have an economy where you could not grow anything, build anything, or go anywhere. it is a very vital called in our economy. something we need to protect and

preserve any to make the system work more efficiently. if we do that we can achieve a lot of wonderful goals from humanitarian aspect of. from equity and compassion perspective. a lot of important goals but i was not asked to talk about those tonight. i was asked to talk about what happened the economy. we allow this great economic --ine our state has built the fact that we can go through major oil bust and continued to grow is adequate testimony. a great economic engine rebuild driven by technology, minerals, health-care, many things right now. if we want to keep that vibrant and growing, there are some things we have to do. we have to invest in education. we have to invest in a safety matt. we have to invest in infrastructure. we have to have a workforce that

can meet our needs. if you look at the landscape of that workforce now this is a very vital absolutely critical piece of it and if we don't preserve and hopefully improve that we face economic consequences in texas. thank you, very much. [applause] >> before we proceed -- all, you have only heard his title. all of our speakers have distinguished resumes and bios. you find bios in the packets you have in front of you. remarks, i mayhe have a couple of questions to

ask at then we will turn to all of you. there should be cards on your table. taking questions in the warm of cards being handed up here and we will read some questions. little change of direction. i said we would start at the far end but we will start with dr. murdock. proceed with your response and proceed down the line. thank you. i'm going to get over here because it gives me more protection. i'm glad to be here. very nice things being said about me. i'm reminded of a talk i was giving a small town in texas. the gentleman who had given me the job got ill at the last minute. another john got up and said dr. ,urdock has done a lot of dim dim.

he said i guess it is best to think of him as a rural demagoguer. i'm going to try not to be a demagoguery today. i want to start off with a success i think are important about immigration. undocumented immigration. we know for example that as of 2015 there were about 4 million in thents of all forms united states. we know from estimates that we have them by the pew manning center, that the number of undocumented immigrants in the tontry is about 11 million 13 million. hewitt put it at about 11 but says it could be 13. to 1.8 millionon in texas.

often heard the figures i give people a rush of saying those are wrong. there's 3 million if there's a milliond there are 3 undocumented. a demographer trained at the university of texas, he is the key person who does the estimates on undocumented immigration. considering the nation pauses expert in the area. know there do you are not 30 million of these people? he said, you know, there is one thing you cannot hide. that is dying. if there are literally 30 or 40 million of these people, they are the help he is group of people who have ever walked the face of the earth because they

die and level of 11-13,000,000 if you look across the country. when you start looking at populations, one thing you see is those in here who look like ,e, who are not hispanic whites are disappearing. we are literally dying out. [laughter] now, let me tell you why i say that. if you look at national figures, for example, and you look at the last census decade from 2000 to 2010, and you look at the children and see what is coming,

you find the number from 2010 non-hispanic white children declined by about 4 million. the number of hispanic children increased more than that. you can see how important these populations are to us simply maintaining the population. something ray pointed out is not only are we dying out because we do not have enough kids, long-term, but we who look like me are getting older and older. if we look at immigration, we need to see in that not only impacting us now, but what will impact us in the long term and something if, if it does not occur, america will demographically not the better.

the other thing we need to look at with immigration, particularly at the economic aspects not only on their impacts on the economy, but toreasingly, what happens that proportion of the economy we wrecked -- they represent if we do not change the s that go with our demographics. the reality is, and we have deal, at this in great the future of the united states, the future of texas, is tied to its minority populations. populations are more likely to be immigrant populations, also to our immigrant populations. the reality is, whether we look at texas, or we look at the united states as a whole, the tolity is the future is tied

our minority in immigrant populations and how well they do is how well america will do and how well texas will do. thank you. [applause] >> thank you. you have given a whole new meaning to someone talking behind my back. >> i will go over here a quick. ok. can everyone hear me ok? i am the president of an organization, and advocacy organization, about 2.5 years old. a bunch of leaders in the business and tech community who want to fix the broken immigration system. we have three principles that go into a broad, commonsense immigration reform framework.

they are that we should fix the legal immigration system so it makes sense for the economy, sensible interior provisions, and with that, we need a pathway to citizenship for the 11.5 million, i will be very deferential here. bit aboutk a little the space because that is a place we concentrate. that, i think we are not going to talk about the politics of this tonight, but i want to echo what has been said here. anything we think is so important is to get the truth out there and more on the issues we run into, there are people who have the feeling there should be their own facts. about whyo questions don't we just secure the border

first and get to this issue later, why don't these people theyegal, why wouldn't just fix their own situation here. as someone who spends the majority of his waking hours trying to get members of congress to be supportive on the issue, it is great to get to talk to people. working on the issue and can work on the issue a lot. we will do a fun experiment here. i left my phone over there so it does not work well. everyone reach into your pocket and put your phone out. first pocket. you should all take a picture of me. i look great. [laughter] you, if you are holding a phone, running on programming or designed by an

, if you think you have got the phone, keep it up, otherwise put it down. anybody? no one hasty good got an old snooki of from pre-2005. that is all we figured out here. this is great. years since we have the last update to our legal immigration system. cutting-edge technology at the time, a the transition from atari to nintendo. was our major superpower not just as a country, the internet did not exist. innovation center, from what we have seen here in austin, immigration is critical

and we are in nation of immigrants. systemonger have a legal of immigration that works for the economy. startupslicon valley and 60% of startups around the country have started with at least one immigrant founder. immigrants are twice as likely as a native born population to be entrepreneurs. if you look at the immigration .ystem, we would be held back let me show you about the immigration system. we have an incredible problem with green cards. withcredible problem foreign-born students. i will start with those and go to the process of what we think the immigration system should look like. you want to come to the country. he studied in college in the philippines and wherever.

big place in this country is you may go to american university. then you graduate. and you have got one year. go to the optional training you have the ability to work anyplace, if you have gotten employer, great. college, wed from a subsidize your education, and in the question is, what happens then? you have got a one-year temporary pass. we thoroughly's people out in cases here. a lot of people try to get a visa, and to give you a sense of how limiting these are, there are 65,000 spots available. decade, every single visa has been taken off either in the first -- since the first day or the first week.

we do not have any legal immigration system letting in them immigrants. you stay here for a while and decide you want to apply for a green card. anyone hear from the philippines, china, india? ok. you are from, let's pick india, and you apply for a green card. a great employer here. does anyone want to guess how long it would take on average? five years? higher or lower, anyone? 10 is a pretty long time. 27 probably right now. pause for a second on what that means. these are people, for immigrants, if you're from these there are you say, only a certain number of

immigrants who can come from certain countries. from china and philippines, from india, a lot of immigrants are coming in. just think. it is 2016. -- before you would be able to get a green card. test flying cars. it is important to put these things in perspective. it has been 25 years since the soviet union. another 25 years until people work authorization that says i'm a permanent resident of the country here p or we need to dramatically expand that. have an immigration system that no longer reflects the values of the country. what was built by immigrants, our greatest competitive advantage in the world thatrically has been people have wrist so much to come here.

systemfighting for a that embraces that and heading into may be more globalized economy and we need a legalized immigration system that makes sense. thank you. [applause] >> we will go there. initially to stay in our seats but everyone is up here so i will do that as well. and i was borns and raised in mexico, first-generation immigrant, came to the united states in 1987 for graduate school and never left. on my dad'side, his whole family is from texas and they have been living here since the lines were part of mexico.

one day in 1848, they woke up and found out they belonged to a different country. the family were able to come back and forth. very grateful for the opportunity to share my thoughts here. i'm actually a spanish professor. is what i do for a living. -- i teach hispanic culture and literature. i am not an economist and i'm a little intimidated by the wonderful folks over here. you have an imposing presence. bit, i was a little asked to come and share a little bit about the impact immigration reform has, because that is my other job.

i began sensing that i wanted to serve immigrants, just people like myself, being very grateful for this adoptive country of mine. you have been so gracious to me. i became the director of the amigration service center, ministry that has worsened under the embryo of the christian organization, an agency that deals with the relationship between faith and axis and -- ethics and justice and public policy. that is part of the convention of texas. around 2006, we just got sick and tired of seeing immigrants taken advantage of by immigration consultants. in texas, we call them -- i do not know if anyone is familiar with the term.

thee are like a plague in state of texas. here is a number. are practicing law without a license. they are not immigration attorneys. , sorecognized or credited they charge pesky fees to do the immigration paperwork on behalf buteople me to be helping they are really scamming them. they charge attorneys but they do nothing. trouble on people in deportation proceedings. there was a case here in austin three or four years ago where one single person was able to get $50,000 out of a single family of immigrants. $50,000. in exchange for nothing. according to numbers from the there is ones,

opening up shop in the state of texas every day. money andot enough not enough manpower for law enforcement to go after these are still noty that stiff, so people will be more protected. we got sick and tired of seeing the abuse and we found out about the board of the dashboard of immigration appeals accreditation process, which hardly anyone knows anything about but it turns out nonprofits, social nonprofits can apply for this for recognition and accreditation, and it a go through proper training and immigration law, offer legal services p or you have to offer them at a low cost. they have to make a living. doing it to help people, but you get to practice immigration law without a law degree.

we decided we would encourage baptist churches belonging to texas that just to be part of that. go for recognition and accreditation. open up legal service centers as so you can reach out to immigrant communities and bless and protect them and teach you can, offer legal services and get drink cards and their citizenship. we have been doing that since 2006. i can give you a few numbers impact of immigration reform. half $1 million. immigrationwith reform, 20% to 30% of that amount could easily be redistributed to meet other among the texas

population. a big area where we have a need is we have a lot of hispanic churches, and baptists are becoming more and more brown, more and more hispanic, and we are in need of leadership and we do not have enough pastors. you do not know how many calls i get, at least one or two every week from somebody from some --rch asking me, can we put petition for this gentleman, a man of god, we want him as our pastor. we cannot because he is not documented. we cannot do a visa for him and it is heartbreaking. that is one number for you there. the project was created to offer legal services. campus of the the americas, the college where i serve, and we are spending close to $100,000 per year just on texas, immigrants in

especially undocumented. is aunny thing is it little bit of a paradox because we talk about immigration reform something tofor happen so these people come out of the shadows and we can get the full economic benefit, but given the problem i looted to with these scammers and immigration consultants, unless the law changes to do something about that, my guess is we will have to continue to spend money to protect people because they will be in the hands of scammers. it is one thing that we advocate for immigrants, both documented and undocumented. we are very strong about making everybody aware there is a problem with immigration

consultants. those are the numbers i have for you. i am grateful we baptists get to do the kind of ministry, because these are real people. these are strangers among us and they have worked -- they have work in dignity and we have to that we can to care for them and protect them. thank you very much. [applause] >> before i turn to a first question, i look forward to receiving questions appear from all of you on the floor. i want to reflect on the importance of a religious voice in the effort.

one is called the interfaith immigration coalition were members of the george faith, we often bring to the for this notion of remembering that you in egypt, and you and vote a concept of a stranger and we speak about that and the for us to bet mindful of the stranger and see that he or she is well treated. it is a comment we share with baptists and muslims in many faith groups. thank you for that testimony. issue of aurn to the notion that somehow immigrants are taking away jobs from play ans and perhaps little bit of the devils advocate here.

this is directed to really anyone who wants to answer it. not thatem is undocumented immigrants are americans want to the commentator says americans are taking jobs they cannot do because of minimum wage jobs, safety of the work lace, labor laws, and employers are getting the benefit of hiring people who are not -- in a way that is not in conformity with the laws, and in actually cheaper, a way we are seeing this benefit of some places in the economy of cheaper prices. it is inherently inequitable thing to do and one of the jobs are not being taken by americans, because we are dealing with jobs that are not done in a proper setting. at is one claim. now famoushat, a

wall street journal article i referred to earlier, famous in as theom, we are told economy recovered, they passed ame anti-immigration laws, bad economy at the time, and it was not clear what the impact would be, but they then began to feel a work shortage as the economy began to improve. what the article reports happened is there was a worker shortage and wages raised about 50% and about 10% for construction workers. these are legal residents between two thousand 10 and 2014 according to the bureau of labor statistics. for employers say the need workers has increased, needing them to boost wages more rapidly and including the ability to extend. boosting wages more rapidly, the question is what is wrong with that. that is the question i put to you and anyone else.

>> i will start. people abuse the system. there is no question. it happens. it is unfortunate that it happens. that is not the typical situation. situations,at these some work in fairly high wage industries. it is not always the case that if you put up the wage, you get more workers. a lot of times, they are just not there. that is the situation we find ourselves in. center,nds at the pew 75% plus of these folks, withholding income tax, social security, it is not a case of what a lot of people perceive it to be. the other thing i put on a subject, and it is important to recognize, i will put out a couple of numbers i put out and steve put out and put them together for a minute.

texas, 12 million folks are working, our population is roughly 27 million give or take. for every worker, it is about 2.5 people thereabouts. steve said the population is between 1.6 and 1.8 million undocumented right now. if you take 1.6, it is one and a third. 1.8 is 1.5. they actually bring the average down already. 2.5 if you take the amount. is, veryells us simply, the folks are coming here to work, they're are coming here when jobs are available and in demand. means every worker, there is only one spouse that comes in for every three workers. when you start talking about children, it is a lower number. the mythsa case of

you here, a person comes in, a spouse, and seven or eight kids. the numbers do not hold up. you do not get 1.6 million population 1.2 code -- one more -- 1.2 billion working. that is not the case given numbers do not hold up. these people are responding to a labor market shortage and the situation to occur in arizona where wages went up but also there are situations that occurred in arizona where they had a worker shortage. they could not get people to build the things they need to build. it is a balanced. mays wages? probably so. is there anything wrong with that? probably not. is aave to keep in mind it function of the supply and demand for workers. a big-budget,uch another 5% in wages. they simply cannot get the people to do the jobs. you have to keep it in balance. it is very much a central need

in the workforce now. think,ll jump in and i i think it is a great first question i'm excited about. immigrationwith our system, that is why we are trying to fix it. there are bad actors whether they are people taking advantage with immigration fraud, whether they are forcing people to work for five dollars an hour. i get up every single day and what we hear from our opponents with theind a problem immigration system and say, you guys just want more immigrants. hold on. fix the brokeno immigration system so let me explain to you what i mean. there are people in the construction industry paying people for dollars an hour with no benefits. the people there paying that two are often put in the position of, call the police or work for four dollars an hour.

space as somebody who grew up in st. louis, missouri. the idea that if something happened that i could not pick that if ine, the idea being sexually assaulted, i am not going to pick up the phone because i do not want somebody to be deported, it was never part of my experience growing up. people legal status, people are outside of the law and do not have the protections of these things, whether that is not being paid a minimum wage, whether it is so many things in life. the important thing to keep in mind is what we are advocating for is to put everyone on a level playing field so you do

not see it. if you look at the arizona study , you see when you remove huge numbers of people, it is an economic disaster. look at the proposals right now. two studies have come out in the last six months. rounding up 11.5 main people would cost 600 million -- 92 main dollars. z, but it tooknd about 10 years to go to the moon. it would cost us nine times that to remove this population and have a $2 trillion economic impact to the studies and there are bad actors in the immigration system. andeed immigration reform if we fix the legal immigration system, people will come here legally and that is important. the last thing about this story, when you read it, and this is what is so hard in the debate,

one is called the center for immigration studies in one is called the federation , they like toform say they are anti-undocumented immigrant, then you go and read the tag line. all illegalion of immigrants, that is all. 1970's, the white supremacy you genex movement, they get printed in the wall street journal. to give you an idea of the fights we see, these are the people we fight with every day. >> one thing. we -- we need to recognize is as we treat undocumented immigrants or others in way that diminish their incomes, diminish their levels of that it -- of

education, we are really diminishing our own resources, human resources, as a competitive nation. see that if you look at poverty rates for, just taking his because we do not have as good a data, for all, just hispanics, because they have a larger portion of people who are undocumented immigrants, what the incomes are 40% less, on average, depending on the area you look at. rates fighting poverty two times as high. high school graduation rates or high school levels of education, 30% or more if you look as a whole. they get into jobs, and we put them into jobs of that nature, we create a situation

that has the potential to make our society on an ongoing basis less competitive. we are not only doing a terrible thing to them, but we are in fact doing terrible things to ourselves and our society and our economy as we go forward. >> thank you. i have one more question and i hope there will be questions coming up. do with what to paint the picture of not only --olute numbers of immigrant of what is increasing, but the the other over time, issue is how the retreat of the undocumented here now to make sure they are treated humanely, there is a future oriented question of, having done that, what is the policy for the future.

principle? limiting maybe three times the amount would be great. limiting principle in terms of what we should be advocating for in terms of numbers of immigrants should be coming into the country? not think i have a good answer for that. i do not know what the number would be. as our population ages and the workforce is aging, we will have increased demand for labor. it cannot likely, come from people who look like me because we will just not be here. i am sorry to say we are literally dying out. and abroad, statistical sense. what we have at stake in the immigrant populations is really

expensive in nature. we have come at stake with them, our own future and the future economic and otherwise as well. >> do we have questions? thank you. the first one is basically, great points and statistics, i agree with that. politicians are spreading hatred, blame, and misinformation. what do we do to get the facts to the public. i want to remind everyone we are a nonpartisan organization. the -- in terms of principles, what can be done to more effectively get information. does anybody have any ideas on that?

realistically, there will be a lot of this. it is a core issue that will inflame emotions and get people involved. , i get all ofople these questions, what happens if the policy proposal is implemented for the economy. mention any names. no matter who the person is, the bottom line is minute -- none of these proposals make sense. none of these proposals will happen. and you name the candidate that can explain that to you, i promise you. become an inflamed issue and it has hacked into, the anger in the country people .ooking for somebody to blame

this is a good target here. let's blame these folks. maybe they did it, who knows. i do think things like this, getting things out there, over thingsnformation impact and impact things in a different way. me, isist tells imperfect, but if you say it long enough and loud enough, and with enough passion, i think people can hear you and help bring about good and solid reforms in that regard. we have a person in the audience tonight who has something think that in the state of texas, bringing legislation to the forefront and getting some good things done. some information and that is where you're in and

others like it are so important. the information and knowledge has to get there. organizations like yours are so important. wet -- what raised saying, one thing that is helpful is to take the real figures and some not so real figures out there and discuss them with a group. go through and say, if this is of your, one of every x neighbors is undocumented, etc., and there are characteristics according to those on one side in terms of how much they work and whether they want to work, all kinds of rhetoric, i find in a livingseful room kind of situation where you talk about this and people realize some of what they heard in this election cycle now cannot be true.

i think the conversations with people, it is a very important way for people to understand realities. >> i will add i cannot stress if you are in the business of getting down before have action, and we disagreement and i get up every day and get this done as soon as possible, i'm incredibly optimistic after the selection and let me explain why. caucuslook at an iowa electorate, you win the iowa caucus. 61,000 votes. 58-60% of the aisle caucus electorate is a self identified, very conservative electorate. 30% of the american.

see somehire, you will people we will not name doing better tonight, as we shift into a general election here in the politics takeover here. more nonwhite every four years if you look at the states being fought out now. it is not just florida and nevada and colorado. look at virginia and new hampshire look at where the growth is coming from, and in texas, and we are incredibly optimistic about that. what i'm trying to ask a member of congress to do, i ask with my wife, to get her to do something that maybe she doesn't want to it you explain to people why is the right thing to do and you try to make it easier for them and tell them it is important. you willeveryone of

have the opportunity to share a story online and meet a member of hamas and the legislator and talk to the staff, tell them what the he is that should happen here. were just those policies in favor of commonsense reform. it is so important. make it a little easier for them. if they say any to hear more from the fate of unity, i can help and make that connection. surround them with the people who matter. these constituencies are important. you make the right thing to do and make it a little easier for them, you have got to make sure it is important. the people who are impacted by this, i have yet to have a conversation with a single policymaker who, when they have to look a dreamer in the eye, does not want to find a way to make this right.

fundamental problems we face with the immigration system, they are so terrible and you put allat if the pieces in place, putting someone in front of them is what forces people to come up with a solution and i cannot stress that enough. >> thank you. and is directed specifically at jesus. what is the attitude of texas lawmakers regarding the scammers you were describing? any support for the notion that something has to be done about them? isyes, i think the attitude very positive. tell you this earlier, but one thing we do at the project is we also organize 40 hour training seminars on basic immigration law. worked in a network of

attorneys and their are mostly pro bono. a calm and teach. they are -- the attitude is very positive. -- the frustration we are not doing enough in the state of texas. we have a connection with florida,nd i know in the scammers actually get to go to jail. that is a reality in texas. government confiscates all kinds of property. i am not sure anybody goes to jail yet. i have another question for you. you are a favorite here. an inquiry has been made about the initiative, is it having an

know,, what is it if you and is it having an impact on the latino population? ok. we are getting more granular questions here, which folks may not have a response to. one, we all understand if there will be the undocumented, many have children who are citizens. one of our wedding members interested in the increased cost of the safety net and the increase generally of what will happen if we start deporting undocumented immigrants who have children who understandably may not want to have to remove them from the country to her what happens to them and how does the safety net deal with those children? >> we have done a lot of work

specifically on the issue of treatment, the foster care system, we had problems with that right now. you were to suddenly -- it is hard to imagine people making that choice, but if you burden the system, it will bring huge social costs and it is hundreds of thousands of dollars for every individual in terms of increased safety net, lower earning capacity, all the things that come with that when you break up families that way. i cannot imagine it would be anything but horrible if that were to happen. i would hope he would get enlightened policy where does not happen that way. >> in terms of numbers, i can tell you you are probably ,ooking roughly at 4.5 million but not is an estimate,

under 18, probably under 21, even 5 million, who are either theyelves undocumented, or are u.s. citizens born in the united states. the executive actions were designed to prevent this from happening. announced he would give temporary deportation for work authorization. he had done it previously, helping undocumented them since, he is expanding into the parents and 3.2 citizens million people, how many kids they have, roughly 4 million , so the astronomical putting in-- different countries. >> to give you perspective, as

far as the children who are and 50,000,ound 300 400,000, something like that, 26ht now in texas, there are thousand kids in foster care. >> you start to compare what this would mean. , onee talking about proposal, 4.5 million u.s. foreign u.s. citizens, even youout that, 11.3 million, are talking about, internment cans in world war ii, you're talking about a population 100 times the size of an internment camp. absurdthe term awful and because it is important to stress the horrors of this as

well as the complete impracticality and we do not believe this will happen for reasons we will not go into. our directd scope is turnaround. >> talking about deportation practice, and this is getting -- what are the understandings between the u.s. and mexico in terms of deporting immigrants? how does that work structurally? is it different than returning illegal immigrants who come here from central and south america? does anyone want to comment on the mechanics of how this works? >> deportation from mexico? match -- to mexico or central -- what is the

relationship in making that happen -- in making that happen? >> there have been positive changes because it used to be the practice, i think, for mexican undocumented immigrants being deported to just being outside of our borders, which created all kinds of dangers as those migrants then went all the way back to their villages, they came from southern mexico and they would be easy prey for people who wanted to abuse them. have been changes where now the government is being more humane and actually find people ofser to the interior mexico. that is what i know. >> there are two points on this in terms of a distinction. there is a difference between

border removals and interior removals. been here onn has average for a really long time, they have strong family ties and because of hollis the changes made by the obama administration, you have seen more focus put on the border to .revent people from coming that is racy about 75% of the removal coming. of that is because the obama administration decided this is a low security threat, been here for 15 years. where they are deported to and how that goes very much depend on that. another thing i think is it -- is important to keep in mind is the -- and population, which has in the country for a long time, and what you are seeing at the border right now from central america, it is important to

understand the difference between an immigrant and a refugee. there is gray area there, but you are're seeing is seeing in three countries in central america in the northern drug warsn triangle, and all of these things here, whichever term you want to use is different from why people came here in the 1990's, in the first decade of the century as well. it is important to keep things in mind here. the dueion pulses and process put in place there, it is different as well. quite the summit organized last year, the baker institute in houston, it had to do with in

the course ist driving the immigration from , and one of the questions, it would be interesting to see whether anyone here has thoughts on this, besides deciding what we will do, and what the policy will be for the future, we need about the thinking u.s. policy that could have an impact on the circumstances driving people who want to come here in such numbers. i welcome any thoughts someone might have on that challenge. or not. >> it is an awfully big challenge. there are a lot of people in the understanding and accepting and want to take care

of the people who are here. there is almost and isolationism in parts of the u.s. right now and we did in the political process. get messed up to and somebody else's politics and affairs. i think that is not likely to go away quickly. >> it has that implications domestically as well. i was asked about groups down there to bring down numbers and talk about the border thing going on right now in texas. obviously, it has minimal effect on this, but one effect it is having, and some of these folks are good friends of mine who have been citizens for four generations and they now carried passports with them. citizens of this state and this country for four generations and in one ofaround town the towns along the texas mexico border with the passport to

prove their citizenry. that should not be going on. >> let me paraphrase another question that came up, which is really responding to the discussion of a positive role of undocumented immigrants and our economy. the question is, what is the message being sent by that? is that encouraging people to become undocumented if the theyent is being made that have a positive economic impact, and perhaps even more so were educated killed folks looking for opportunity? it is a rhetorical question, -- with an economic perspective, it says we need to fix the system so that we welcome them in a undocumented manner to provide the needs we have that is what the whole

reform discussion should be about. [applause] >> i will never run for anything. >> it is obvious the immigration system is not working. >> it is terrible. >> we need to do something about revising and informing it. it provides us the protection we do notainst people who want to come to the country, for legal or other reasons, but we need to get a system not so that really does not serve our needs as a country, and it does not serve the needs of the people who have been like americans have always been, people who have come to make america better. in that state.in

i grandfather used to talk about his grandfather. he was one of those dumb irish. the kinds of things they dealt with, he said, so many people, and his grandfather's life, have said -- they did not use the words irish. it was always dumb irish. to get the system cleaned up so people we are , and our system, is one we can be proud of and not -- that we think is failing us and the country. i have been handed what i'm told is the last question and it was forming in my mind. we have had wonderful and insightful audience members as well. what does the reform system look

is the compact, of immigration reform package much about the kind of thing we're looking at, and in terms of political prospects, you're looking at items instead of trying to do some the comments of as a way of moving this forward to show something could be done. question ofom the what does a reform system look like, what is achievable now seeing their future perhaps right after the election as a first step that we ought to be advocating for? >> that is my question? serious whether it is a i think is less performed.

the legalization process, i think is a good way to talk about that. it makes people realize, it is on thewhen people are fence about immigration reform and what that means, you break it down and say, ok, how about a process where they have got to learn english and they pass a background check, and at the end get legalhey can status. how long do you think it should be? oh we should make it at least three or four years. ok. int we tried to fat -- pass 2013, it is all over the place. ultimately, it will be a status, we of legal look at a permanent status way security,ine, border i think we should say -- after

we fixed immigration system, that is ok, because the first principle none of this works if we do not fix the immigration system. we have impossible choices ahead people. i move back to a country to start a company or do i hope i will get a visa that has to be renewed every three months, and a legal immigration system with border security and legal status, it works from a policy standpoint and it works together because you can bring democrats and republicans together around those three principles and that is important. is one of the big issues that has bipartisan support in washington, d.c. it truly and really does. i cannot stress enough how much what you're seeing now is the playing to as small percentage of the american electorate.

it is much better to be done right after the election. because of the nature of what will come out of the election, i think there are tons of points of disagreement in their and what that looks like. those are the three principles that all fit together well. think withg i immigration reform is that we have to be able to find a way to balance the economic needs of the country and also the fact that we have this other area of family-based visas. all of that response to a country, historic need. immigration permits are looking like, it cannot be like canada, which is a completely -- ofonal economic

professions and things we need. you fit into these, and so we isl give you -- it irrational that way. we can never do it that way. because a good chunk of the southwest was once part of mexico. ,e have all of those families like my family, that never left. betweenconnections people here and the people from mexico. some of the immigration system has to account for that. -- be aso have economically rational as we can. we also have to be compassionate the families and descendents of those families that are still here as part of our country. i want to finish the way we began. we talked about us having a broken immigration system that has to be fixed. we spoke about the economic