think in many ways, my religious is informed by my early experiences in an incredibly intolerant who is attributed to differences in ending the crusades and met egypt, andslims and they were buried -- and they were very impressed with st. francis. pope to allowhe people could make the poker event to where he was. we're also a state named after saints, despite the fact that in many ways, we are the most sinful places in the world. those saints like santa clara what this state

was founded on. was founded on -- it was founded on a deep and profound belief from people that brought a great these areo people -- all arguable and debatable points today, but in many ways benefited from that tradition. so, i want to talk about citizenship, which is an interesting concept because in the islamic tradition, citizenship, the actual word in is thefor citizenship place you were born. historically, it is conferred upon people based on birth. you can be naturalized, but it is a birthright if you are born in a place, historically you are a citizen of that place. one of the interesting verses in the koran -- the koran swears by

the city of mecca and it says the prophet was a lawful citizen of the country and had a birthright of being born into that city, he had a right to be there, and he had a right to think freely. and he was being wronged and oppressed. is a birthright, but it is also related to the idea of suffrage and enfranchisement. the idea we can participate in our government. this idea is a relatively new idea. arguably, the greek concept of citizenship does not have a lot to do with the modern concept of citizenship because it was for males in ak m society driven by a slave labor force. it was our first historical account of what we would cuddle

-- of what we would call today a direct democracy. citizens were active citizens. iny have to participate government and have the responsibility of participating in government. that is something that, and our culture, many people do not have any sense of civic duty. i will give you and oh example -- i will give you an example. years ago i got out of jury duty. at a certain point, i should realize, i never want to be theed by a jury that needed $10 a day they give you. on jury duty. i really felt that i am not going to do that. i actually served on a jury once, and it was a felony case, and it was a very powerful

experience. it was something mystical that happens injury deliberations. -- it was something mystical that happens in jury deliberations. it was largely males that were largely anglo-saxon. the suffrage movement that was of web powerful a lot and to participate in the government. -- thea, and this is idea that a citizenship would be someone independent and not an employee. they should be individual to be -- independent to be involved in government. they would have a sense of obligation and more responsibility and more concern about the government because it

would affect them. they did not feel the people who were uneducated, or were not propertied forward on independent should be involved in making decisions that would affect laws that would in turn affect those people who were independent. this was a debate. my point in all of this is that citizenship has been, it is a contested term to this day, what it means to be a citizen -- what are the rights of citizenship? what are the obligations, the duties? we have a bill of rights, but not a bill of responsibilities. in the muslim world, you largely as a rulers known and the ruled. the idea being a subject was the normative experience for most people in most parts of the world for centuries. and this was certainly the case terry however, and the muslim world, just like in futile

europe, most people did not oferience a tight -- a type intrusive government and their lives. in some ways today, the government is more involved than in premodern societies. , lived in the saharan desert and they are completely free people. they are self-governing by and large and live in tribal units. their land, even nomadic peoples' plans is demarcated. they know it people in friend on the land, it will great conflicts over water and other natural resources. grazing rights or bury important. people share grazing. so the right to grace your animals is a universal right in the islamic tradition. but, many parts of the world,

people lived without government. when you get into any type of sophisticated society, uni lost to govern those societies. hence, citizenship is a concept that emerges out of that. this is like aristotle talks a lot about citizenship. he talks about the three ways of being in the world, of being a slave, of being in a type of infantilized condition, placing children, but women is the third category as a citizen. he used the woman as an example of a citizen because she was under the authority of the husband, but the relationship was more of a relationship of mutuality as opposed to a type of dictatorship. the children were in a situation despotism.lent he argue that these are the three ways human beings exist in the world. subjectst as citizens,

of benevolent dictators, which is the father and the mother who are caring for the children and decipher them, and then he looks at the third category, which is the slave that has no rights or authority in her own life. dictatorshipof they are under. in our culture, we and many ways reflect what he calls congruent. . theory.uent what strikes immigrants who come world, is giving children a lot of choices. for instance, i have arab friends who cannot believe that american parents will ask your children what they want for dinner. [laughter] because in many, many cultures,

the children are subjects. they simply get dinner and they have to eat it. here, what would you like to have for dinner, dear? interesting enough, according to epstein, that is necessary for a democracy to thrive and survive. why? government will only look to the degree in which a system of government permeates the social institutions of the society. ,o if you have dictatorships you need to tutorial parents. if you have dictatorships, you -- you needrial dictatorial doctors. it is not going to happen and a lot of places in the world, they will get upset about it.

same with the teachers. , he was in and muslim country and he told me when he was a young boy, the pig er was telling him the is haram. the teacher said put out her hand, and he whacked him, and he told me he learned never to ask questions from that day forward. that makes perfect sense according to epstein for a society to have a dictatorship or tyrannical government. you have to replicate that behavior in all the social institution so that the people in turn internalize these ways of being. if you want to see one of the most extraordinary talks you will ever see, i would watch

debate withn's william buckley at the oxford union. one of the things james baldwin says, is very early on, a black child learns what it means to be black in america. but he says, would also happens is why people learn what it means to be white in america. unaware of how we internalize social systems that dictate to us ways of being. thathen he argues in debate and why it is so powerful is that white people are as much a victim of racism as black people are. they shot the longest standing ovation according to the bbc's man that he had ever seen at the oxford union after that address. is verys argument relevant to our situation in the

muslim world. which has social institutions that are, unfortunately, very tyrannical. people unfortunately associate that with islam. and think somehow this must be islam. anduse they are all muslims all of those governments are horrible. , in tend to forget that west africa, senegal is a democratic government. senegal is actually an incredibly liberal society with their religious conservativism, they are a very wonderfully functional society. just recently, they refused a because theypt gave a stamp of approval and said we are democratic society and we don't want a religious because it threatens the

security of our government. there is an example of an islamic state that is democratic and this -- democratic state that does not function as an islamic state. of asia is another example society that has islam as a constitutional religion despite the fact that it has hindus, it , and jungle man. the original people, the aboriginal people who live in the jungle. they are in malaysia. there is a multiple -- there is a multicultural society. and turkey, despite tensions, turkey has been a democratic society for a considerable amount of time. has certainely

things in their constitution parts.uld cause people lest we forget, a ron today compared to the american experience 200 years ago is an extremist progress of society. one of the things we tend to do as americans is project on the world, our view of the world. when we were christian, we had a civilization of proselytizing christianity around the world. hence, we have the american and thety in beirut protestants went around the muslim world establishing these centers. a capitalistic withty, we go around liberal democracy as the idea that we want to convert everybody to this. because ofwe fail

our ethnocentrism to see that other people have different ways of viewing the world. some of those waste might be wrong as far as we are concerned, but some might wrong -- some might be right or wrong, nonetheless, they are the ways a few the world. many women in saudi arabia do liberated from the job -- jijab. hijab. this is the type of patronizing attitude a lot of people in the west have about other people. we simply have to re-create the world in our own image. -- i was just in japan and i was stunned at the incredible difference, the japanese has two foreigners and two other people. i was in tokyo walking around for five days and i did not hear a horn honk once. when i asked one of the japanese

, don't people use corn. the market he said, it is considered vary rude. we could learn something about that in san francisco. roof whengh the somebody halts the corner my kidneys go through the roof. [laughter] i really appreciated the quietness. and every body was so -- i held for a few people and they would run and say, so sorry to keep you waiting and they were like bowing and i was like, wow. [laughter] and i was for keeping the elevator door open, you know? that i think has retained some of its beautiful things of traditional society and in many ways, we in the west have lost many of those things because of the negative aspects of tradition. the muslim world is still profoundly feel centric.

even secular muslims feel -- we have words like goodbye that used to mean god be with you. we don't really have the type of words and our culture that are informed from a religious perspective. my father constantly got speed whenever he would say goodbye because that was something that was said when he was a young man d, gois country, godspee with god. one of the things that is interesting, we call this rocket the challenger. the sums would never do that. -- muslims would never do that. calling a rocket the challenger for a muslim is insanity. god write things like, may be with us. airplane,et on an

they would put god's name asking for a safe journey, not like "challenger," like who are you challenging? [laughter] world isuslim profoundly theocentric, and for that reason, islam, and i was happy to see this week islam must be still part of the solution for any of the problems they can the muslim world. relegated in the relegatedon has been in europe, less so to a large extent in america also. islam is still central to the islamic egos. -- for the islamic ethos. my teacher convened -- this took five years to get to marrakesh.

people think these things happen overnight. it took five years and begin with a meeting five years ago about citizenship. the reason that he did this was he was so troubled about the the idea that enable some majority state, non-muslims go under a status of the grist of islamic material. there are a lot of websites about this. i saw a bumper sticker a few weeks ago in santa clara that said "i am a disbeliever in arabic." a disbeliever and proud. which again is an in-your-face statement about how people think

that muslims view the other. it is interesting, one of the linguistic aspects of english and arabic is that in english, we have father and brother, but in arabic, you have brother and other. in english we say, brother. but in arabic, you say other than the word brother is embedded in the word other. that is a very interesting thing. you have to see the brother in other am a but recognize the other in brother. that is something a lot of people have a difficult time doing. so, he had a series of meetings oftalk about the problem .ndemnity

it is the idea that those who .isbelieve in god have to pay until they pay a tribute with their hands, and there is a lot of debate about that word. some say it means humble, some savings humiliated. you will find debates about that. what he did was he look at our tradition and said, that the first relationships that the prophet had with the other in medina was full and franchise mode, and this was a jewish community. it was the first written constitution even though the and spartans had constitutions, but they were not written. this was a case where the spartans had it written down and in it the jews are given full

enfranchisement in the state to practice their religion and to have mutual defense and they are entitled to their religion and has her own religious courts and fulfill their functions. it was a full enfranchisement. they were not seen as less than the muslims in that state. most muslims think that this was aggregated. but fred donner shows in his and mohammed and the believers, that actually, there were jews on the peninsula up until the ninth century historically documented. saidost famous biographer he expelled the jews who did not have the contractual agreement of the medina in charter. so the medina in charter was maintained even after the prophet's seath.

death. he argues that citizenship is an islamic concept and that the prophet mohammed did enfranchise the jews in the should be the model for muslim states today. orc acknowledge it. two points and i will finish. it and they did it with the scholars at that time. it was agreed upon that it was no longer an appropriate relationship to have with minority communities in the muslim state. trying tol they were do was basically substantiate within our own tradition, the normative practice of citizenship in the modern world. it is the one that makes the most sense. people would say, why you have

to elect 1400 years? believe thatms islam was a revelation and if you can not convicts -- convince them, they will not accept the u.n. charter. isis is a good example now of people who are revising medieval attitudes -- in some ways, i take offense at calling is medieval because i spent a great deal of my life reading medieval writers and i am always struck by how enlightened they were. we tell about dead, white men, most of those dead, white men spent many of their lies in jail. many of them were killed by the state. we tend to forget that. the only good indian is a dead indian. malcolm x. gets a stamp after he was assassinated. incorporateructures

dissidents after they are dead because they are no longer a threat to the power structures anymore. so, i was -- i have a defense for dead, white men because they had a lot of interesting things to say, and i don't they were all white anyway. augusta was from north africa, lest we forget. my point being, if you do not substantiate this in our , many muslims will something not accepted. how do we change the scenarios? the only way we can change the situation we are in today is education. so, it is not for nothing that we are here in a great petition of education and that we can civilly sit and discuss things because our society is based on persuasion. one of the things that is threatened in our modern society is argument. argument is not a negative term and scholastic tradition. argumentation is the basis by which we speak with one another and attempt to convince one or

the other of the merits of our argument. what happens when you lose argumentation is precious takes over -- prejudice takes over and we are not willing to sit down and discuss things and be either convinced or convince them, hence the need for these traditional subjects, like logic and rhetoric, which taught people how to argue intelligently. now we have demagogues emerging and these are harbingers of a frightening future if we allow these things to be lost. period despite whatever faults -- and i don't like to project on the past the sensibilities of the present, they were men of their time and have the prejudices of their time. not all of them, but many of them. they were all great men and women. we should never forget some of the great women of that time. 'wife was john adams

a great woman, abigail. if you read how she raised her son, you recognize a great merit of that woman. it is important to not always project onto the past. they were men of their time and have their faults, but they also had things to tell us today. and i think we ignore them with great danger and peril. having said that, i will just end with one thing -- is religious liberty incompatible with islam? that is real answer to who is islam? for many people in the muslim community in the past and ways, religious liberty, as it is defined in the modern world is incompatible with islam.

the islam that i was raised, which is normative islam, i do not believe religious liberty is incompatible with islam, and i think i could make a powerful argument. i do think i can do it from the koran and i will be be with three versus -- the koran says wanted, everyone would have believed in the world, other words, he gave you free will. then it says -- going to coerce people into believing? because all you do when you coerce people into believing is create a religion of hypocrites. the other first -- and that was in verse 99. chapter 256, is in the koran says -- there is no coercion and

religion -- in religion. chapter 18, it says -- who ever was to believe in this, and whoever wants to reject it, let him reject it. most of us love chocolate. i just bought some japanese chocolate for my family. and people are usually happy with chocolate, but nobody likes chocolate when it is shoved down their throats. a few. [applause] thank you. [applause] host: thank you so much to hamza. a lot of questions were raised and questions about muslim as majority --ing in

muslim majority countries. what i would like to do in our discussion is talk in the context of the united states. states,he united especially within the context of what we're seeing politically, however -- how can you reflect on the place for muslims here in the united states as a minority community? >> first of all, we have to member that muslims have been here from the start. there is substantial historical evidence proving that at certain periods about 1/5 of the slaves brought for muslims. we have handwritten qurans from slaves. we have arabic letters from slaves. a good example of that.

you are involved with that with mike wolf. we also have the earliest example of a white convert to islam who got his masters degree, the highest degree at the time at harvard. harvard was teaching arabic alongside hebrew. if you get the first edition facsimile version of noah , buter's 1828 dictionary that was the first american dictionary. he wanted to prove that english was from arabic -- from hebrew. he ended up feeling they were arabic and english.

it is filled with arabic typography. he shows all these arabic words. they were teaching arabic in the in the 18th and 19th century. muslims have been here and they are here. notwithstanding some major events where you would have incarceration, like what happened to the japanese, which is never been constitutionally declared unconstitutional. it has to go to the supreme court. fema does have interment camps for national emergency or something like that. bid if there was some kind of nuclear dirty bomb or something like that, who knows, i don't know. it's very troubling. i think muslims are here in

large numbers. they are highly educated. also a lot of really hard-working, decent muslims here like many other communities. one of the things about the united states is historically most communities have been forced to do get out. -- duke it out. the irish, if you study their history, they fought hard. there was a very interesting book which is about irish catholics. people think kennedy was the first i was president. it was actually injured jackson, but he was -- andrew jackson but he was protestant. i catholic set a hard time this country. they duked it out on the streets, treated world-class , and nowinstitutions one out of every four americans has some kind of irish roots.

and saint patrick's day biggest parade in new york and boston. happen if people work hard enough and are willing to take the blows. >> in regards to the question of religious liberty and religious muslimm, there is a intra- debate about the extent to which religious freedom and liberty should be granted. especially when it comes to attacking islam. we see a violence that arose when cartoons are drawn in the image of the profit. intra-muslimthis debate. >> first of all, the idea vigilante justice is prohibited in the islamic religion. no muslim is allowed to take extra-judicial action in any situation. there are blasphemy laws in

islam. there still are blasphemy laws in some european countries. it's not like these things are completely gone away, they just don't implement them anymore. the last person killed was in scotland in the late 17th century. it was not like europe did not have these things also. the muslim tradition, the premodern tradition. it has many of the sensibilities of the modern worldview. situation iurrent think muslims need to get used to being offended. the quran has many verses about being offended. be patient about what they say. he will hear from the people that were given the book before you, the juice and the christians -- jews and the christians, making of noxious

statements. it says to be patient and don't be angry. there is a lot of things about not getting angry. him "blameworthy." he said isn't it interesting how my namesemoved thei -- from their tongues and they want to curse me. my name is mohammed. they're not talking about me. anybody that says those cartoons where the prophet muhammad is not a muslim. there's a beautiful picture in it says "this is not a pipe.: the image is not the thing. if you make an image, it is not that thing. a crucifix is not jesus on the cross. especially if it's a caricature.

it is certainly not our profit. and muslims have to ask themselves, have you contributed to the drawing itself? toyour behavior contributed the perception of this religion? when muslim student heinous things, unfortunately, islam gets blamed. with christianity, that is not the case because we're in a society where christians are fully enfranchised. i know some people who do persist -- christmas and things like that. thing,stian does a crazy not all christians are blamed for it. muslims are not fully enfranchised in this country. one muslim does a crazy thing and islam gets blame for it. a lot of people clearly have mental illness. who flew into the irs building, he was considered a crazy white guy.

but it is and was mohammed, that would've been a terrorist act. is as simple as that. the arabs says your position works in my doesn't. different grammatical rules. santa clara university is a list institution of higher learning in california. it is grounded in the jesuit tradition of educating citizens and leaders of conscience and compassion to build a more just and more humane world. can you reflect on your mission at the college, especially within the context rooted in islam? what are your hopes and achieving and embarking on this? >> i would say the catholic and islamic faith share a lot of things. essential things they share is a profound dedication to education. another thing they share is a profound dedication to the instrument arts. power, the ability

to do something. historically, is your middle arts in both our traditions were the language arts and the number arts. the qualitative and quantitative reasoning. grammar,g which arts, logic, rhetoric. there was a wonderful fresco by botticelli of a student being led to other arts by grammar. is personified as a beautiful woman. overlooking them is wisdom. one of the things we don't realize is that lang was incredibly complicated. when we speak -- i was in a hotel recently. -- some he asked me what i wanted. i said in omelette with everything except the meat.the omelette came with everything -- with nothing but the meant. -- meat.

limited insh was using "except" is a collocated concept in language. " it is veryno meat clear. we don't realize how collocated language is. doctrinelly, christian -- saint augustine argues you have to learn the line which to read scripture. one of the crisis in the muslim world is that it's no longer taught. people are reading scripture without the liberal arts. you don't know what a conditional sentences, you should not be reading scripture other than a conventional practice. but if you think you can derive knowledge from it, you were going to get into trouble. there are many things in the quran that are highly nuanced in the islamic tradition. the last book you read in our scholastic tradition is a two-volume work. book, youraham this read the article for the atlantic.

it is a two-volume work on the prepositions in arabic. and how difficult they are. several possibilities. the causative. to "itas one related happened after, time is transpired." is a conjunctive that happens after "time has transpired." in the catholic tradition they used to study the sentences. seminariesd this in sometimes for 10 years. this is a book of sentences because there is so much sophistication in great writing, especially inspired writing by great theologians. we have lost a lot of this. our complex compound sentences are diminishing our writing. you can see this clearly a modern writing. we are losing the sophistication of language.

many of our students are incapable of reading melville. if wallace wonder left the world because of a kind of despair. writervery sophisticated that sometimes write sentences that last for a page. he was teaching students english literature. he said he would begin with a crash course on grammar. the students cannot read. is of the things i have done give students the first sentence of the declaration of independence. i have done this in several classes. average, students on three or four actually get the main clause of the sentence. they are unable to identify the difference between a subordinate in the main clause. we had a war on grammar for 50 years. it has literally been a war on grammar and grammar matters. without that pause we could become cannibals.

[laughter] com -- commas are a matter of life and death. >> we had some questions of a written down. we can take some more as well if you have them. please put the mama cards. please continue to express your thoughts and how isis revised or threatens muslim traditions of behaviors. >> first of all they are a real perfection of modernity. they are much closer to the kind marxists or radical tradition. a lot of people are unaware of how profoundly impacted marxists thought -- even in our colleges and universities in united states, critical theory, which can be traced back to karl marx. he hasn't undeniably brilliant

criticisms about capitalist endety, but overall the justifies the means is a marxist concept. it is not a religious concept. the idea that somehow you can just enslave people. the prophet says there are three people that he will be an advocate against on the day of judgment. the one whowas sells a free person. about taking people as slaves in egypt. when did you -- what right do you have to enslave people that their mothers give birth of them in freedom? -- the slavery is an an anathema.

it was largely a way of war victims and refugees into a society. we have in our islamic law the ability of anybody who is an indentured servitude to get money from the public funds to be free if they so desire. the idea of modern chattel slavery has nothing to do with islam at all. what these people are doing is not medieval, dark ages. it is a gross distortion. i am not going to deny -- i spent enough time in premodern books another is some really weird stuff in premodern tradition. but i could take the jewish religion, numbers 31. if you go into the city, kill every male, even the little

ones. kill the girls at a known intimately men and take the girls are not known men into -- for yourself. which was cocky bondage -- can't divine -- concubinage. you will find in the islamic scripture, there is nowhere for there is racism. i would argue the prophet mohammed is the first human being in human history to declare the quality of human beings -- the quality of human beings. -- equality of human beings. there was no preference of a white over a black or black over a white in piety. made peopleays we and tribes to know one another, not to hate one another. even though that is an interpretation, it is a sound interpretation. i really feel that isis inuoye represents normative, medieval islam.

there is a strain of radical islam even in the premodern tradition that gets pretty ugly. the idea that women who were taken as concubines could be coerced in islam because they could not have sexual relations if they were not muslim. relatively inre the past and should not be revived in the modern world. it's beeny asked -- said that muslims and blacks are people that have been oppressed here in the united states historically. and muslims are the targets today. do you think there are currently any initiatives in which these two communities or groups work together? >> first of all, anybody that can make a statement about that knows nothing about black history this country. the muslims have in no way any comparison to the african-american people went

through, for the native americans. or even the chinese-americans. or japanese-americans. i could go on. we are doing relatively well. let's face it. said you get some rude remarks, welcome to america. i'm sorry. we have got a front runner out there that just is as rude as can be and everybody loves him. americans like rude people sometimes i guess. i don't know. i think it's an odious comparison personally. what is down the road, i don't know. i am troubled by the rhetoric, but i think there is still an incredible number of decent americans that are troubled by what is happening. i am also very wary of polls. i really am. in my own experience i had the

brunt of anti-muslim things. but it's a good thing to experience prejudice sometimes. it gives you empathy. one thing the bible says is do not vex a stranger. you too were a stranger in the land of egypt. we need to go through with other people go through to be more appreciative. one other thing the immigrant community failed to do is help the african american muslim community. that was an egregious shortsightedness ethically and pragmatically. >> it is a question to you personally. could you share the story of your own personal decision to convert to islam? mefor me, my mother raised even though my great-grandfather built the greek orthodox church in valencia. there is a plaque with his name on it.

i was baptized greek orthodox. i went to catholic school. my father was irish catholic. but my mother did tell me that religion is largely arbitrary. you tend to have the religion you were born into. don't think just because you were born into this religion is the only truth out there. she races with that idea and she took us through various religious communities. i went to a mosque when i was 12 years old in redwood city. she took us to a mosque to experience a mosque. pray with the congregation. to do us to a synagogue, a hindu temple. when i was 17.n after reading several different reallyres, the quran

resonated with me because one of the things i like about the quran was i got all the profits and i definitely -- i think the atonement story, i never fully got. but i have incredible respect for christian tradition. i have spent a lot of time in catholic the elegy. -- theology. i'm kind of an armchair cap are -- catholic theologian. i always think the catholics are just so bad at marketing. [laughter] they really do have incredible tradition. in terms of ethics, they are the most advanced religious ethical tradition i think on the planet

right now. i really believe that. they are just so ahead of all the other religions in deeply dealing from a philosophical perspective. there is a lot of shallow thinking out there about what is going on. we are looking at trans-humanism, which is profoundly troubling. cs lewis, a closet catholic, wrote a very prescient piece called "the evolution of man," a very troubling book. and is another book. we are moving into a new phase. i don't know what people noticed that a lot firm just hire the first ai lawyer. it is happening and is happening at a very rapid pace. we're not really thinking about the ethical applications of illuminating diseases -- eliminating diseases.

this was called eugenics in the hitlarian project. in this country they sterilize a lot of people and african-americans. emphasishe really neat and they can think philosophically. right now the catholic tradition is one of the few i really feel is deeply rooted in sound philosophical tradition to be able to grapple with these things in a way they need to be grappled with. >> you touched on this in your talk. examples in history were muslim majority countries did practice religious liberty. >> muslims are historically way ahead. i will give you an example. this is a recent book is just cannot called "when christians first met muslims." the earliest writings.

it's important because most western orientalism looks at the by thinking sources. people forget that muslims defeated by 15 -- byznatine. they would say horrible things of the muslims the same way we said horrible things about the huns in world war i when they were not likely na -- like the nazis. in the iraqis inchoate billing -- in kuwait about throwing babies out windows. thatuwaiti ambassador said and it never happened. war the firstn casualty is the truth. in reading this book i was struck by how the christians loved the muslims because they were liberated under them. they were oppressed under the

byzantines. they were saying how incredible they were. and also a world-class there is noowed historical evidence that muslims destroyed any churches in the conquest. he said there is no historical evidence. is af the things we have very sophisticated, backward approach to a current situation. traditionally you look at precedent and how it affects the present. juristse was a way that and islam look at the present and how it informs the past. the fact that these great forches existed in iraq 1400 years and the christians perceived the muslims in those places is proof that the muslims always honored those. the destruction of these churches is complete the alien to the islamic tradition.

that muslims do not forget the religion before -- for 1400 years and then isis suddenly realized here is the true islam. it is just complete nonsense. these great churches that have been destroyed, this is one of the greatest crimes in our history. unfortunately people that claim to be muslims. it will be a blemish on our history. just like the burning of the sepulcher. 70 years later they caused the crusades. muslims immediately rebuilt that church. -- pay fory mom and the renovation of one of the great churches in jerusalem. the muslims honored the christians. to hundred years ago, i have a saidwhere it says, it is to hear so many muslims saying i

wish it was christian because of the perks of the christian god. -- before the armenian crisis, they were one of the most honored groups in the ottoman tradition. this same mr. with the jew -- the same is true with the jews. eventians and jews an , they great buddhist traditions of central asia. muslims had multicultural, multiethnic civilizations. the idea that we are the first multiethnic civilization in history is stupid, hallmark of our ignorance. probablyy america is the most progressive civilization in human history in terms of legislating nondiscriminatory law.

i think that would be a fair thing to say. but muslims for premodern record, nobody compares to the muslims. i say that objectively as a student of history about civilization. -- and think any society others would also make that point as well. >> in terms of the context of what we see today, both within muslim countries as well as the tensions that exist in united states and the amount of islamophobia that continues to exist in this country, in many ways it is getting worse. what are your thoughts about this context? are you hopeful for the future? islamophobia is a problem globally.

i think it's a problem in muslim countries. there is a lot of fear the rulers have of awakening that come from islam. islam has a profound justice -based element in its tradition. concerned,'m overall, muslims are doing relatively well in this country. i think we have dropped the ball after 9/11. i meet arguments -- you are in the meeting we had 16 years ago. i made these arguments about having a national organization to start dealing with anti-muslim rhetoric that will emerge. nobody listened to me at that time. cassandra was cursed with seeing the future but not being listened to. is kind of a bomber but that's the way things are. [laughter] see, if of what i

donald trump gets elected, i think it could be very problematic for the muslims. i think if hillary is elected, it might in of being a chief of staff at one point. hopeful.ot say i am i know enough about history to know how bad it can get. our religion is a religion of optimism. we are challenged to be optimistic. i am probably an optimist trapped in a pessimist's body. [laughter] let's hope for the best and expect the worst. c-spanre taking this on so our time is quite fixed. hamza join me in thanking

yusuf. [applause] >> today, former president bill clinton campaigns for democratic presidential candidate hillary clinton at a get out the vote event and he's los angeles. live coverage of his remarks at 3:00 eastern here on c-span. citizens have got to feel that their vote matters, that their voice matters and whether centcan not spare a single to a person running for office or writing a big check. their concerns, their struggles will be listened to so follow up on it. >> wisconsin senator tammy baldwin talks about her career in public service and wisconsin

little history. helped shelter the change noteby senators were appointed by the legislatures, but demanded elections. those -- i don't know if it was the first but the idea it was not going to be the party bosses that made the decision of who the nominees were in smoke-filled back rooms but rather the people who were going in free chance to vote and fair elections. >> tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span q&a. goodman gave closing remarks at this year's left for him in new york city. she spoke about the presidential elections, climate change and the media. it is 30 minutes.

[applause] >> thank you, thank you. it is a really great honor to be here and to be back in new york. we are on a 100-city tour for democracy now. i also want to shout out to my colleagues over there in the back, and the volunteers and interns that are helping out. democracy now is a joint effort, a joint project, a brain trust of remarkable group of reporters and producers and videographers over the last 20 years. we never thought it would go beyond nine months. it was the only daily election show on broadcast in 1996.

i got the call to do the show when is in a safe house in haiti, covering the critical time right after the first coup. people could be gunned down. people who would go to the polls could be gone down. and still the overwhelming number of people voted. but in our country, when i was asked to do a daily election show from that vantage point, those people voting faced nothing like the adversity that they face in haiti. i felt like do this election show? i never thought people in scapular apathetic. what were people doing in their communities? that is what we wanted to find out so we use the primary system because state to state to see how people were engaged. sure, there are a lot of obstacles put in people's paths. and they increased over the last 20 years.

you had a brush with the criminal justice system, as millions and millions of people have in this country. in certain states you might never be able to vote again. in other states, like vermont and new hampshire and maine, you can vote from jail. polls intending to vote like people did in arizona, they found on primary 140 polls were something -- simply closed. this year, 2016. 140 of the 200 poles. could it have something to do with the growing latino population in phoenix? they felt they would save some money. but by that rationale, why open any polls at all. least, this is an anonymous threat to democracy.

the evisceration of the writing rights act. -- voting rights act. we've been speaking with people all over. one of the first places we went was the birthplace of pacifica radio, celebrating 67 years of pacifica. you know pacifica's history. 67 years ago a consciousness objector came out of the detention camp and said it has to be a media outlet not run by corporations that profit from war, run by journalists and artists. that is how pacifica was born. or how the late dean at the university of pennsylvania would say, not run by corporations that have nothing to tell and everything to sell that are raising our children today. kpfa when on the air in 1949. angelesjust in los

celebrating kpfa. i got a text on my phone. juanid one carlos -- carlos has been arrested. there he is with his camera. on the streets of new york, our videographer for democracy now. where were they? that was the night there was that anti-trump rally in new york and 1000 people came out. they filled the streets of midtown manhattan and they were on the little bridge next to grand central. the grand central bridge. protesters were there. they were filming everyone and the police came up and as they reporters -- a commanding officer said no, they have a right to film. the problem is the officer left. and then they moved in on them and they pushed juan carlos'

face into the dirt and confiscated their equipment. as i'm walking up on the stage in los angeles i am getting a text. they have been arrested. what are we going to do? los.xt juan car are you ok? yes. are you arrested? yes. he didn't even have any misspellings. are you in a police van? yes. are you handcuffed? yes. are your can't handcuffed behind your back? yes. how are you writing? yes. everyone sprung into action. i called juan gonzales who called the police. we don't spend much time calling the police, put on this date it

was critical because they were in their custody. our video producer raised down the police plaza and after hours they were released. but we should not have to get a record only put things on the record. [applause] critical.lutely there is a reason by our profession, journalism, is dealing with exquisitely protected by the constitution because we are supposed to be the check and balance on power. this is a very serious obligation that we have, to go to where the -- the second station, and here in new york 99.5 fm went on the air in 1960. andribute early and often yes, it's another fundraising drive. in the first years of operations they were broadcasting a debate between the great writer james baldwin and malcolm ask over --

malcolm x over effectiveness of a lunch counter sit in in the south. and then in houston the one of the air in 1970, and washington in 1977. that is the pacifica radio network in the united states. in houston, the of the only radio station in the country that was blown up. in the first weeks it went on the air, the kkk strap dynamite to the base of the transmitter and blew it to smithereens, right in the middle of our logo three singing "alice's restaurant." i always thought it was a good song. they rebuilt. the transmitter goes up again. straps 15 times the dynamite to the base of the transmitter and blows it up again. that would take months. january, 1971, they finally get ready.

public broadcasting comes in and its infancy to broadcast this moment when the phoenix rises from the ashes. to thethrie comes back petrol metro to finish his song live on the air. kpfd goes back on the air. i can't remember if it was the exalted cyclops or the grand dragon, because i often confuse their titles, but he said it was his proudest act. i think that is -- because he understood how dangerous pacific it is because allows people to speak for themselves. when you hear someone speaking from their own experience, whether it's a palestinian child or an israeli grandmother, victim.it is a chaddian aunt init is an

afghanistan or an uncle in the bronx. we were just speaking in albuquerque for the overwhelming majority of kids in the high school are undocumented. when you hear someone speaking from their own experience, in challenges all the stereotypes and caricatures that you have from hate groups. like my baby,nds my uncle, my aunt. i'm not saying you will agree with them or even with family members, but it makes it much less likely you will want to destroy them. that that understanding, is the beginning of peace. i think the media can be the greatest force for peace on earth. instead, all too often it is wielded as a weapon of war. which is why we have to take the media back. [applause]

in these last few weeks we have lost some great profits and activists, like michael ratner. michael ratner who is the late president of the center for constitutional rights. it will be a big public memorial for michael at cooper union on june 13. i hope everyone comes out. it would be he is 73rd birthday if he had survived. he fought cancer over this last year. michael ratner was the first to sue over the attica uprising, representing prisoners who were injured or killed. he brought the first suit under and thenowers act, holding those in power accountable for the iraq war. theued donald rumsfeld and

bush of ministries and officials, making it much more uncomfortable for them or maybe impossible for them to travel to places like europe, afraid it might be arrested if they go there. whoit was michael ratner brought the suit on behalf of guantanamo prisoners, that they should of habeas corpus rights, be able to have their day in court. he interviewed his close friends, read brodie and michael smith, attorneys and colleagues on democracy now when michael died. one of the people quoted in the new york times was the attorney david coley said, "yes michael renner about the guantanamo case. he said when i asked him years later what he thought his chances were in filing suit, he said, "none whatsoever." we filed 100% on principle."

david said that could be his epitaph." but the case did go to the supreme court and he won. [applause] prophets. the great the00 people passed into xavier church to remember him just a few weeks ago. priest,agan, a jesuit who along with his brother phil engaged in that action in 1968, may 17. they took the draft files, hundreds of draft files from the they took themnd outside and burn them with napalm, homemade napalm.

know if younot would be imprisoned for many years for that action. a week before when he was in portland airport in maine after giving a talk, we were just there last saturday, he sat down and he wrote a statement that he wanted to release right after the action. apologies for the fracture of good order, the burning of paper instead of children." "we havelater say chosen to be powerless criminals in a time of criminal power. we have chosen to be branded as peace criminals by war criminals." rest in peace, father dan. rest in peace, michael ratner. just as you lived. i think as is evidenced here tonight, that struggle that you

engaged in issuer to be carried -- is sure to be carried on. [applause] that story i just told you about , 46 years ago,n it was a story of our history. we are talking about the ku klux klan today. i can't believe we're talking about the ku klux klan in 2016 presidential election. how is it possible that the presumptive nominee of a major political party like donald trump, the presumptive nominee of the republican party, when asked on cnn if you would disavow white supremacists, david duke, i can't member if you was the grand dragon or the exalted cyclops, if you would disavow his support, he waffled. he said he had to consider this more deeply.

when was the last time you heard donald trump said he had to consider anything more deeply before he commented. but on this issue he had to weigh it. what exactly did he have to delve more deeply into? which klan chapter it was? you don't want to generalize all the klan chapters of the united states? because youhtening were talking about the possible president of the united states. you are talking about the president whose polls are indicating has a very good chance possibly of becoming the president of the united states. the man who was ripped open the underbelly of hate in america, opening this pandora's box. is not just his comments on the client -- klan. look at the rallies. for example, the supporter, john

mcgraw, to sucker punched a black lives matter activist in north carolina. and then said the next time he would kill him. and donald trump saying he would pay the legal fees of the supporters if they are jailed. the only silver lining here is i heard the legal publisher and writers say it was interesting to hear him say he would pay their legal fees because he never pays his own. trump, violence at rallies. and then a very interesting piece that david did in mother jones about trump's longtime butler that trump did not want to let go of. he was with the family for decades. the story of trump's father, fred trump. the new york times wrote about his name and address in 1927 or 1928, part of a klan rally in

queens. now his longtime butler. the new york times did a piece on him on march 15. not a favorable piece, how he was deeply close to the family. and that he read it and started looking around about this guy who worked for donald trump for 17 years. trump did not want to let go of him when he wanted to retire so he made in the in-house historian in florida. he would get towards -- give tours. what was he saying on facebook for years? in 2009, he told trump he was going to resign. trump asked him not to. meanwhile on facebook just this year, what did he say? he talked about president obama

saying this character are should haveas zero been taken out by our military and shot as an enemy agent in his first term. instead he remains in office doing everything he can to get the america we all know and love. that is what say he posted messages calling for obama to be killed. he says i cannot stand the .istor -- bastard believe he was a fraudulent piece of crap brought in by the democrats. trump's historian has been suspended on the past on facebook for publishing materials that violates the guidelines. not only his butler, donald trump himself was one of the leaders of the movement.

nothing could be more racist. othered president obama. whatever you think of him. it's like he could not be from this country. this racist backlash against the first african-american president in a land with a legacy of slavery. that botherhings continually posted on facebook was the confederate flag. over and over. donald trump announced for the presidency last june 16. or member what happened june 17 in charleston, s.c.? that was the day of the horror when nine people, eight parishioners and their beloved pastor were gunned down by white supremacists. he came to join them in bible

study. they all knew each other, did not know him a welcome tenant anyway. -- welcomed him anyway. he blew them all away except for one woman. he said he wanted her to tell the world he had done. a few days later the survivors and loved ones of the victims put this country to shame of the survey for gave him. -- i would like to say that built --f unwittingly blew the roof of the confederacy. but i don't know if that is true right now. given what is playing out in this presidential election year. a few days later when clemente lay inme -- pinkney state, he was a longtime state senator, thousands streamed by to pay their respects. but first they had to go by the confederate flag flying at full

mast on the capitol grounds. all the flags of south carolina except one, because the confederate flag cannot fly half-mast. it had been put up on top of the capital in 1960 response to the civil rights movement. of then in 2000, because pressure from sports franchises and the unit -- and the naacp they put it on the ground on the condition that anyone who pulled it down face greater fines and it could not fly half-mast. i think after this killing and after the mass funeral that took place at the college of charleston arena where thousands came to pay their respects, president obama singing "amazing grace," if you ask people who took down that flag, i think most people in his country probably said the south carolina governor nikki haley. but that is not who took down that flag.

this is where movements come in. and we need a media that covers movements. it was 5:30 the morning on june 20 7, 2015, 10 days after the massacre. the south carolina statehouse glowed in the morning light. a 40-year-old african-american woman from charlotte, north carolina walked through the main entrance of the building. to the company by a young white man from north carolina another she scouted the grounds. they observed the scene, waiting until there were no guards visible. after about 30 minutes they made their move and walked towards the confederate monument directly in front of the main steps. it was topped with a heroic image of a confederate soldier pastry to those who have glorified a fallen cause, slavery. proceeded to the flag bind the monument. the battle flag flap lazily at

the top. and then she donned her climbing gear that she had learned how to use a few days before. she quickly ascended the pol e.guards shouted for her to come down. andgrabbed the flag in -- unhooked it. she said i come at you in the name of god. she said this flag comes down today. she lowered herself slowly along with the flag. when she reached the ground they were arrested. video went viral. raced.l was quickly the director of the often omitted film "selma" was the many to hail her. "i hope i get the call to direct the picture above the black superhero i admire." within about an hour, two

statehouse workers raise a new flag on the capitol grounds. this is astounding. it is the day after the joint funeral. thousands of people packed into the charleston arena. the next day, the day that she took down the flag, the individual funerals were taking place. the victims were being lowered into the ground, and the confederate flag was raised by the state once again. ced to the jailhouse and somehow got into the arraignment cell. they were charged with face -- defacing state property and a $5,000 fine. we raced to the lobby. we spoke to a woman who came with bree from north carolina,

from charlotte. he said to see that flag actually come down and all the things it represents being taken down by a strong black woman was one of the greatest images a person could ever witnessed. another young black woman came from columbia. buthad no idea who bree was she knew she had passed the flag everything ever life. denigrated and humiliated. she said she has done what our governor has not the courage to do and what are journalists and we has not the courage to do. she did what had to be done when it needed to be done. yes, shouted from the rooftops. she took down the symbol of the confederacy in south carolina. [applause] it is absolutely critical that we have a media that covers movements. the movements they don't have

the corporate media radar screen. this year with bernie sanders, he has not created a movement. he is riding a movement that has been growing for years. so many set in 2011 after the in candidates were invigorated -- eviscerated by police. did not amount to a hill of beans. i'm sorry, obviously this is not the case. that thousands who streamed into the park, the media for the first week did not cover them at all. at all. there is something worse than negative coverage. it is the vanishing. that is what was happening. the media moguls and their limousines passing by the elite journalists, this is a media metropolis of the world. they just did not cover it. and then erin burnett restarted

her show about that time on cnn, characters piece was called "seriously?: this is how the media mocked them. they can't even settle on an issue. they are against death penalty, war, racism, inequality. they are concerned about climate change. yes. all of those issues together. and they would we are listening. all of those issues together. they would say they can't decide spokesperson. if they lead a full movement, lift movement. occupy, occupy is the language. you say 1% or the 99%, everyone knows what you are talking about. right? you changed the language. world.nged the to move fromwant occupy to the issue of climate

change where i'll end. that year, 2011, was asounding. astounding. from the arab spring which uprising in wisconsin. wisconsin was the home of the athlete and also the home of the society.h the john birch society that segregation of anti-civil rights and co-founded. the's right the father of oil barons charles and david koch. then you move from the wisconsin protest against the keystone excel in the summer the occupy and the u.n. climate summit. anyone that listens to democracy, you know we cover torything from copenhagen cancun to poland and paris. given what happens inside these summits, why waste the fuel?

not what happened inside. it is what happened outside. comehousands of people who from the most threatened parts of the planet who come to these to -- the 15-year-old maldives. my country will be submerged. the people that say you are cooking our continent. turning to the historically emitter greenhouse gas of all, the united states. demanding that we change. the rest ofbates in the world. those debates are around what to do about climate change or the thetes in the country in media are whether human beings have anything to do with climate change. i mean the science is settled as if every time we talked about planet earth we brought up someone from the flat earth society for balance. something unusual happened in south africa in 2011. when the outside was invited in.

pressure from the outside. the youth were invited to the world. that is where i want to end. with a student here in the atlanticates from the in bar harbor, maine where we just spoke. is getting a degree in human ecology. she sees all of the issues. into theof youth came world, bobby, and they surrounded the delegates, the bureaucrats,, the the scientists. ascended to the stage when she said i speak for the world's population. silent majority. our interests are not on the table. get a stake take to in the game. lobbyist, money, you've been life.ating all of my you've failed to make pledges, promises, but

you've heard this before. home to the frontline on the change. the science says we have five years max, you are saying give us ten. the starkest of generation's responsibility. where is the courage in the rooms? now is not the time for incremental action. in the long run they will be seen as the defining moments of which narrow self-interest prevails over science, reason, and compassion. she said long-term thinking is not radical. what's radical is to completely alter the climate's planet to my generation and millions to death of climate change. 2011 was a year in which the silent majority found their voice, the year when the bottom the top, 2011 was the year when the radical become reality. quoted president nelson mandela. he said it always seemed it's done.until

on the vastut governments of the distinguished world and developing world, get it done. there.cy was the only national broadcast from this country to be broadcasting voices inside and out and in captioned them world.out the yes, we need the media. wbai in new york. democracy now. yorknity television in new and independent media all over the country and around the world to link together and breakthrough the status the and lies that obscure reality. what we need is the media to the dictionary definition of status, criticism, unwantedn, interference. we need a media that covers not covers for power.

we need a media that's the force estate, not for the state. that covers and makes history. now.racy [applause] [cheers and applause] on fox newsing speakerformer house newt gingrich, criticized judge that's a handling pending action against trump university. >> are you comfortable with a potential president attacking a federal judge for his heritage? no. as i -- this is one of the worst mistakes trump has made. is inexexcusable. he has every right to criticize and say certain decisions aren't right.

to moverneys can file the venue. this judge was born in indiana. he's an american. period. you come to america, you get to become an american. trump has grandparents that came to the u.s. and should aserstand this as much anybody. second to characterize. were a attract on the grounds he's black, we would crazy. trump has to move to a new level. he's the potential leader of the united states. has to move his game up. >> do you consider what he did here racism? >> i think it was a mistake. sloppiness. mexicanhe has many friends. that's irrelevant.

this judge is not mexico. he's an american citizen. that means he can attack him as a judge. against me.al and he has lawyers who are supposed to be doing that. case, theygood should file a change of venue. sitoming up tonight we'll and several other picks. coming up, hillary clinton complaining for his wife in los angeles. meantime, a conversation about the 2016 congressional elections from this morning's journal."n

hench we are taking a look at congressional races with two guests joining us. stuart rothenberg and nathan gonzales editor and publisher of the the report. thank you for joining us. let's start with the condition of the senate. stuart rothenberg, what happens comes this november to the senate in your estimation? guest: there is a bit question mark in terms of turnout and what the election is going to be about. the senate class is overwhelmingly republican. this class was elected six years ago, 2010, a very good year for republicans. they elected republicans and those republicans are in a presidential year. can the democrats net the four or five seats to maintain control of the senate? it depends on if they win the white house. the senate is up for grabs. there is differences of opinion. some people think the democrats have a slight advantage. i would argue that.

the senate is in play and obviously with questions about the presidential race and donald trump's appeal and hillary clinton's appeal, it is something of a jump off. host: nathan gonzales, if it is four or five, what should people be focused on if there is a change going on? >> if we work backwards, senator from illinois followed by ron johnson, we would have the open seat in florida. the only vulnerable democratic senate seat right now is harry reid's. the rest are offering opportunities for democrats.

kelly in new hampshire, rob -- in iowa and pat in pennsylvania extremely -- they are extremely vulnerable in tough races. we are waiting for, does the playing field grow even more? roy blunt of missouri. this trump -- does trump inspire hispanic voters remark -- this talk inspire hispanic voters? guest: i agree with nathan. but the seven states nathan mentioned is most competitive. six are states that are varied competitive in a presidential election. there is and what overlap. there is an overlap. it is going to have some affect

on how the democrats are doing. host: how prepared are these incumbents? guest: the incumbents are doing everything in their control to be ready for reelection. they are putting campaign infrastructure in place. volunteer programs will be in place to utilize volunteers going into the fall. the question is, what happens that is not within their control? how offended will some voters be because of donald trump? all of them have to form a coalition that includes supporters of donald trump and people who are offended by donald trump because they are in these competitive states where they can afford to lose republicans and can't come out blasting donald trump. but they also can't embrace him because they will turn off --

guest: two or three of the states are states that donald trump has a scenario on how people improve republican turnout, particularly wisconsin and pennsylvania. maybe iowa as well. nathan is exactly right. to what extent does trump bring in new voters? then the question is will they continue to vote republican? these are not necessarily republican voters. host: some of the voters -- guest: the key voters to watch are the never trump voters. they do in november is key. if they come out and they say, i can't vote for hillary or donald trump but i'm still going to vote for the senate, both for the house, republicans may have a bad night. but if they don't vote at all, their impact will be tremendous. ayotte in new hampshire

could get every republican who voted in the 2012 election. will get her to 27% of the vote. andneeds independents democrats to get over the top. host: we will talk about this further. our guest stuart rothenberg and nathan gonzales joining us. if you have questions about some races, perhaps you are focusing in your state or house the gentleman questions about it. 202-748-8000 for democrats. 202-748-8001 four republicans. 202-748-8002 for independents. how effective will these campaigns be even if there are no real connections to be made? guest: that is one of the key things we are watching. democrats are going to couple everything a republican with donald trump. pat toomey is a donald trump republican.

they have a loose enough connection, both running as republicans in the cycle, that is enough to put in a campaign ad and bring up questions. democrats still have work to do. i know democrats still have work voter's changing the minds. not just he has an r behind his name. an r. pat toomey must agree with everything donald trump says. democrats have to make that case. republicans have to be further independent. guest: this is a standard playbook. republicans do it when there is a key -- republicans do it when there is a democrat in the white house. democrats do it when there is a republican in the white house. large number of senate seats. most of those kinds of elections occur in midterm elections years.presidential

in the midterm, the president is not on the ballot. the only way to express your dissatisfaction is to vote against his party's candidate for the house and senate. presidential years are different. voters have two votes. you can decide donald trump not vote for him, but you can like rob portman in ohio and vote for him. you have more flexibility but you are exactly right. but we are seeing this time, democrats trying to attach donald trump to every republican in the senate. brought down the dogcatcher. we've seen it before. it is somewhere between them using and sad. that's the way we do our politics. this year we have the democratic congressional anpaign committee to put out ad talking about donald trump. let's show you the ad. [video clip]

donald trump and republicans in congress are built from the same reckless policies. >> republicans must hold up broader abortion restrictions. >> we are not going to fund as long as you have the abortions going on in planned parenthood. when mexico since its people, we are bringing drugs, crime, rapists. >> for every valedictorian, there is another 100 out there hauling 700 pounds of marijuana. >> we have too many mosques in this country. >> i am for traditional marriage. >> the house voted to ban same-sex marriage. >> donald trump and the house built from the same reckless policies. host: your thoughts on the ast:?

guest: it is fair that they are making a linkage and it is up to the voter to decide if they accept it. what is interesting about it is it is all donald trump soundbites. this is a donald trump ad and it takes advantage that the republican party. the party has a poor standing with the voters. if they can connect donald trump and the republicans in the house, you bring up issues like abortions, mexican's coming across the border with marijuana, this is the kind of thing that could build up in a democratic way. host: mr. gonzales, can you see an affect on specific campaigns? making the connections so far at this stage? caller: with this type of message it can unify.

there's a division between and bernienton sanders. hillary clinton is going to be the nominee. the anti-trump message covelli could rally democrats up and down the ballot. digital advertisement -- the party's ability to target voters online is only increasing. their ability to focus on different groups with messages. there is this type of message -- they will be dozens of this iteration depending on who you are, where you live, and what issues you care about. host: taking your calls. tommy, you are on with both of our guests. ahead. caller: good morning. i understand. the way he talks hot headed and

everything. trump. he is saying we don't want any illegal immigrants. what is wrong with not wanting illegal immigrants? you have to take a stand sometimes. you have to screen who is coming in and who is not. what is wrong with that? hillary is a liar. she has been a liar from day one. she twists everyone's words around. democrats -- i don't know how anyone could vote for the democrats. all they do is tax. every year, social security send you the thing on how you are working. i am 57 years old. i am down from 35 years of working. spent the last eight years with democrats has had the most tax taking out of my pay all they know how to do is tax and get handouts to the people who don't want to work. host: tommy, thank you.

take that as you will for the campaign. guest: first of all, to tommy's point, there is a distinction between legal and illegal immigration. it is a fair point to make. it is up to the republicans to make that case. the burden is on them to convince voters there is that distinction and that they favor one, but not the other. as to the second point it what we see is a deep distrust among republicans of clinton. the democratic party in general, but hillary clinton. that is part of the polarization. guest: tommy sounds like the type of person that trump's message can resonate. there are people who believe

that the economy is not working in their favor. i keep coming back to a house race in downstate illinois where a democratic congressman was running for reelection. there was a republican named mike boss running. they have footage of him on the floor screaming and throwing papers in the air. democrats thought, this is perfect. we have video that republicans are crazy. but mike ended up winning. won by ten points. midterm.a it shows now that that message resonated. mike was angry, but the voters in downstate illinois were angry. it was helping him. [laughter] i think it is a humble reminder that this message -- donald trump's message will resonate. it is just a matter of does it resonate with the majority? host: kokomo, indiana. independent line.

caller: i am a senior at a university. i am very interested in the midterm election. this is something my fellow students talk about is why do we frame the elections in terms of democrats and republicans instead of really hitting on the issues, in particular from a business student. it is about sustainability. i don't care who it is if it's democrat or republican. i want to see problems solved and an end to the gridlock. that's something i would like to for talk. guest: i think the reason why we frame those with democrats and republicans because that is the

form of government we have. it is a party system dominated by the two parties. it is difficult for third parties to get on the ballot. i hear a lot why don't members something done? why don't they work together? i don't know that voters are incentivizing the compromise to break gridlock. if there is a republican member compromising with democrats, they are going to get voted out in a primary by a candidate that says, we don't know someone coming to washington to work together, we need someone standing up for the constitution and the president. i think in some ways, members -- they have frustration with members getting something done in washington. it is that these members are doing what they were sent her to do. guest: that is an important point. we talked for many years about the polarization and washington d.c. certainly exists.

republicansat how view democrats and democrats view republicans. in these primaries, you can't go to your own voters and elect me and i will work with hillary clinton. or if you are a democrat, i will find a work -- i will find a way to work with donald trump. voters don't want to hear that. they want to hear that you stand good and the other side stands for evil. we hear these calls all the time and speak to people, why can't they get along? there are americans out there that do one negotiation and compromise in dealing with the big issues. lord knows not dealing with the big issues is not moving the country forward. but, boy, people -- way. that is the problem. host: here is troy new york, democrats line. caller: good morning, gentlemen. how are you? good morning.

caller: i've elected like to say one thing. i am blind. i am a democrat. and i am a workaholic. i want to get my own things. i am not looking for handouts. i would like to know how many democrats do we need to retake the senate, the house, please? guest: democrats need 30 seats to take the house. that might not sound like a lot, 30 out of 435. but 30 out of a universe of 30, 40, maybe 50 that are competitive is a lots of seats. democrats are trying to do their best to get candidates in place to take advantage of and anti-trump -- an anti-republican wave. they came up short in a couple of key suburban, like in pittsburgh. they had a candidate dropout in michigan state in the before an alternative. trying to prepare for that wave. it's been tough. to put your life on hold in order to run for congress is a difficult, a big step.

it is easy to say why didn't democrats get someone to run here or there? you're asking for someone to sacrifice a lot for really know certain victory at the end. guest: just one quick point. take metropolitan new york city area that includes districts in the boroughs. let's include the island as well. you got an open seat. you have the first district at the end of the aisle and suffix county. those are competitive seats. you have to go way up state to get a number of competitive districts. that is a good example. there are a lot of district out there.

that they are so partisan one way or the other that the other party can't compete. host: when it comes to house races coming talked about the house tea party. americans for prosperity working against her and now donald trump making robo calls. explain what happened? guest: there are a lot of moving parts. renee ellmers came in with a tea party reputation. a lot of conservatives have turned it back on her. whether it was the establishment or abortion amendment the. it was the same day the annual march for life can turn -- for life happen. that irked a lot of conservatives. she has tried to cozy up to donald trump and now has its robo call. the other factor is there is a new congressional map. her congressional was pulled out from underneath her. it was a court ordered legislature to withdraw the district.

she represents 15% to 16% of the district. against george holden. he represents 60% of the district. a third candidate that lost the race in 2014. lost the race in 2016. going to happen is one republican member of congress is going to lose this primary. i think it will be viewed as anti-incumbent. re-districting piece was huge. guest: can i address that first part of your assessment of that renee ellmers assessment, which is correct? she was not the only one of these tea party antiestablishment republicans. nathan and i remember talking to some of these leaders after that. a lot of these people elected in 2010 ran against washington and some of them continued to beat up on washington and continue to

undermine republican legislative leadership. others decided, oh, this is how congress works. you have to negotiate and trade-off. renee ellmers was cited to me, to both of us as i recall, as a perfect example of someone who ran against washington. she came into town, a lightbulb went off. this is how we get things done and pass legislation. for some people, that is a positive transformation. for others, that the problem -- withtarted to play ball the establishment. host: rothenberg & gonzales political report. stuart rothenberg and nathan gonzales joining us. colleen from utah, good morning on the independent line. you are on with our guests. caller: thank you, good morning, gentlemen.