teen belong's that category. people who are only superficially influenced by this organization. he did not follow their way of life. he still was animated by this idea of the islamic state. the other categories are those who are drawn to the group because of its militaristic success, model of government, attraction to brutality, or are profiteers. of group is in a sea political failures in the region. it is not a surprise that isis emerged in iraq and syria. countries have suffered emagin -- unimaginable brutality. the group has built its narrative around sunni

victimization. it benefited to say that sunnis are systematically under attack by iran and other governments. the two greatest superpowers in the world are helping both of them. in their traitors midst to help them. it is important, without playing the genocidal act of isis, to highlight that the regime in damascus had carried out almost all of the atrocities without exception that isis has committed even before they arrived in syria. in 2012, pro-government militia stormed villages, slaughtered heads of and smashed condemned people. i want to conclude by saying that isis thrives in this context was that it should be defeated in this context to stem

the international appeal. this can only happen at the hands of the people that isis claims to represent. thank you very much. chairman johnson: thank you very much. -- our next serves as the codef corporation. he has a phd from princeton in islamic law. he said he traditional islamic sciences in cairo, egypt. johnson, and other members of the committee, thank you. i would like to make brief introductory remarks and save the other discussion points for questions and answers. i would like to add that before declared war on they declared war

on is lumped of this is not only a threat to our homeland, or national security, but our religion. both the expressions are by interpretive methodology. that is what you go to seminary to be trained in. is requires want to understand the divine text. and to understand the text of n, and the various statements of the profit. 60,000 prophetic texts. 100,000re over narrations of these texts. understanding the divine text means understanding a dozen different sciences. it begins with arabic grammar, these, logic, interpretive tools were used to understand what does the text actually mean in the context in which it was revealed?

the second thing is to understand the context we live in now. the current moment. understanding full well that people change, times change, circumstance changes, and location and place change. the month offast ramadan in the northern latitudes? usury in thel with light of fiat currency not backed by gold or silver? that further adds that one needs understand the current moment we live in. the third aspect of this interpretive paradigm is how do we link the divine text into the current moment in which we live? that, as we were taught, is a talent. everyone is endowed with that kind of talent. violent and extremist groups like isil have no interpretation whatsoever. nor do they have a fundamental understanding of islam's.

haveare warmongers who created a parallel religion. this parallel religionis no more islamic than a pool with one lemon squeezed in it is lemonade. because of the gross misunderstanding of the primary use of that, we can identify what is so long -- wrong with their thinking. i have been able to deduce about half a dozen or so main concepts that they have. i have traced them for certain cluster of sources that are used by every single islamist extremist group from the middle of the 20th century until our time today. in that, i can isolate those concepts. we can provide a counter narrative. don't have an army at my disposal. i don't own any weapons. i leave that to law enforcement. my intellect and my

scholarly training. i can employ that to provide a counter narrative to inoculate our youth. to make it absolutely, unequivocally clear that what isil represent has nothing to do with the religion whatsoever. chairman johnson: thank you. witness is an activist for lesbian, gay, i sexual rights who fled syria in 2012 after receiving threats from soldiers and jihadists because of his sexual preference. he fled first to lebanon then turkey. he was granted refugee status after a year and a sense moved to the united states. he testified before the united nations security council summit on lgbt writes in syria. mr. nahas? reporter: mr. nahas: members of the

committee, thank you for offering me the honor to share my story. in the context of the larger events happening in the world and here in the united states. my story mirrors the story of many other lgbt individuals. heading to the university, and organized group of militants accosted me because they perceive me as gay. had announcedue they would cleanse the city of all sodomites. isis had not yet been formed. gay manme targeted all in the country. i fled from my home country of syria in 2012. after living in a country of lebanon for six months, i moved to turkey. activism meant that even in turkey i once again found myself in danger.

extremist groups like al qaeda and isis were gaining strength and access there. i was not safe because of my sexual identity. a syrian friend informed me i had been targeted for death. the director helped me with a un refugee agency. iior to my resettlement, completed an extremely thorough screening process. that included testifying under a and front of an officer from the dhs security checks and cultural orientation. wasr this process, i relocated to san francisco. in august of 2015, a few months after resettlement, i spoke before members of the un security council about the threat to sexual minorities in the middle east.

as i stated during the meeting, isis with ambassadors, was just one of many threats to the lgbt community in the middle east. report from recent refugees from syria say isis and other groups actively target gay people. it is enough just to be perceived as gay by them to be arrested, tortured, or raped. this person can be thrown off a building. a cheerful crowd will stone them to death if they are not dead. the publicis seen by as the most notorious group in syria, and iraq. when it comesogy, to the treatment of lgbt people, is similar to many other groups including governments themselves. we know that many groups target people in syria.

the just use different methods to kill. good fortune allowed me to begin a new, safer life. recent event in orlando show that lgbt people still face huge challenges here. the new york times reported on june 16, even before the gay,ing rampage, lesibian, bisexual, transgender will already be most likely targets of hate crimes in america. according to analysis of data collected by the fbi. put simply, efforts to discredit the poisonous ideology of isis areother extremist groups insufficient to completely erase pilotseats of lgbt either here in this country or abroad. also commit to

combat the, phobia, xenophobia, and bigotry in all of its forms regardless of the source. in order to do with these issues or recommend two things. the bridges and convening power of the united nations, support actions that promote not only human rights for lgbt persons but also gnclusion, tolerance, amon communities. this requires continued u.s. he human rights council and supported funding. statements such as the one issues by the security council on monday condemning the orlando attack are critical. this statement denounced, for , violencetime targeting people as the result of their sexual orientation. it has received support from

russia, and egypt. this will make it more difficult for those countries, and others, to argue that it is not recognized as an international human right. two, we need partnerships across communities that can address the negative consequences. including assisting the communities affected by it. ar example, i launched special project into the middle east. that is providing shelter and education, while promoting in the u.s. and abroad, a more positive image of the algae bt people.- lgbt chairman johnson: thank you. is a rightstness activists in one of the thousand yazidi women of by isis. she is drying attention to the

on -- drawing attention to the ongoing genocide. murad is hern, interpreter. >> senators, i'm grateful and happy to be among you. thank you for the opportunity. language]foreign >> the first thing i would like i wasl you is that heartbroken when i witness the crying in orlando. for the same reason, they were abused, just the way i was.

[speaking foreign language. i wasn't surprised by this, i knew that they were not stopped it would deliver the crimes everywhere. [speaking foreign language] >> when i was captured, i was 19 years old. i was one of the 6000 children taken into captivity. >> [speaking foreign language] >> this happened on august, 2014. for oneacked htethem

reason, you considered infidels. their interpretation is that the women in the children must be replaced. >> [speaking foreign language] >> this is what they applied to us. thousands of men, women, and children were killed in the first a of the attacks. >> [speaking foreign language] >> in the hottest day of the summer, more than 100,000 were stranded on the mountain. >> [speaking foreign language] >> it is true that crimes were committed. what happened to the yazidi's was different. >> [speaking foreign language]

>> i was one of the girls who were enslaved in mosul. i was among the thousands of women take into mosul. >> [speaking foreign language] >> the first thing they did in mosul was to, after distributing us, was taking us to the court and having is converted by putting our hand on the qu'ran. >> [speaking foreign language] >> it is true that i was raped, and abused. but i wish that everyone from a 6000 women was like me.

because girls at the age of 9 were raped as well. >> [speaking foreign language] >> only in two hours, more than 700 men were killed. among them, my brother. the same day, my mother was killed for no reason. >> [speaking foreign language] >> i am not saying that isis represents islam's. to commiting islam these crimes. >> [speaking foreign language] >> this needs to stop as an ideology. >> [speaking foreign language]

>> many people in the area had the choice to leave, when isis came. they were happy to join the islamic state when it came. >> [speaking foreign language] things for meny to testify about. at the time is limited and i don't speak english. i wish i could tell you more. >> [speaking foreign language] >> i would like to give me one more minute, if possible. chairman johnson: take your time. take whatever time it takes. >> [speaking foreign language] >> this was committed against the yazidi's, and was continuous until now. >> [speaking foreign language] >> i deliver this message to egypt, what is happening has been happening under the name of

islam. >> [speaking foreign language] >> people have a sympathy. they said this does not represent us. >> [speaking foreign language] not seen that they have been labeled as an infidel group within islam from any muslim country. >> [speaking foreign language] ask the leader in cairo to say that isis is an infidel group. he is not committed to do that yet. >> [speaking foreign language] >> many families in iraq and

syria were escaping. they could have helped them. but no, they seized them and give them back to the militants. >> [speaking foreign language] give up onld not their weapons. >> [speaking foreign language] >> before all the arab countries prevent thems and from joining. >> [speaking foreign language] to prevent the supply of weapons and money to them. l notevent that oil wil be sold. we have to fight thema fter that. >> [speaking foreign language] yazidi's are

unable to protect themselves in iraq and syria. >> [speaking foreign language] >> if a country a strong is your country cannot protect its citizens in orlando, or france, a small minority like us can protect ourselves in the heart of the land where the radicals are? >> [speaking foreign language] >> there are many things for me to ask you. we have been waiting. the list is too long for me to ask you. >> [speaking foreign language] >> i know what is going on now di womene than 3000 yazi

still in captivity. >> [speaking foreign language] >> when i was held for every hour that passed, i was happy that i was not sold, raped, one hour was counted for me. every hour was counting for me. >> [speaking foreign language] >> i was freed but did not enjoy the freeing -- feeling of the freedom. have not been held accountable. what happened to the yazidi people was a genocide. >> [speaking foreign language] >> the first day, thousands were killed.

>> [speaking foreign language] >> the displacement of 80% of the yazidi people who do not have the joy to have a tent to live in. >> [speaking foreign language] >> and, for holding more than 1000 children in syria to be trained to have the same ideology. >> [speaking foreign language] >> because of the children who were at the age of nine became slaves. ms. murad: [speaking foreign language] >> for the people who drowned in the sea, they escaped because of isis.

ms. murad: [speaking foreign language] our children have been prevented from going to school. this is all because of them. ms. murad: [speaking foreign language] >> today, i am saying this is like theminorities yazidis. if they are not protected, they will be wiped out. ms. murad: [speaking foreign language]> we wan -- >> we want to live with dignity whatever we are. ms. murad: [speaking foreign language]

>> as a little girl, i had a dream. that dream was to open a beauty salon. was prevented from accomplishing that dream. that is the sex same story with thousands of children, and exact like me who were -- same story with thousands of children and people who were like me. ms. murad: [speaking foreign language] >> it should not be practiced against islam. but these crimes have been committed in the name of islam. they must be the first to resist this. ms. murad: [speaking foreign language] >> i don't like anyone to be attacking an entire religion. the family that liberated me in mosul. at the same time, this is being

committed under the name of islam. ms. murad: [speaking foreign language] >> there is so much time that is my entire me to tell story. now i will stop and give you the opportunity to ask any questions. chairman johnson: thank you. thank you for your courage and coming forward and testifying. let me just ask, did any of your family survive? ms. murad: [speaking foreign language] >> yes, two of my sisters, two of my brothers, and some nephews and nieces. ms. murad: [speaking foreign language] 18 people from my family and extended families are either killed or missing. chairman johnson: could you tell

us how you escaped? ms. murad: [speaking foreign language] >> i never believed i would be able to escape. areas that were fastly occupied by isis. ms. murad: [speaking foreign language] >> the first couple of days i tried to escape. i could not hold on more on the was committed against me. i could not take it. i decided to escape. ms. murad: [speaking foreign language] intended to escape. but i was not successful. i became a subject of rape by multiple people. collective rape/

. ms. murad: [speaking foreign language] >> the second time i attempted to escape was successful. andmily and mosul held me made for me an islamic id. with that, i could escape from mosul. chairman johnson: you mention the 30 do hundred additional girls who were captured. are they dispersed throughout syria, and iraq at this time? ms. murad: [speaking foreign language] >> yes, they are everywhere. they are not in a specific place. they are being stored, and their

places will be changed from one place to another. dingrman johnson: we are hol questioning to five minutes because you have so many members attending this. i do want to go to the doctor, a real scholar in islam. tothere any way for us understand, how did this violence get to that point? what happened? you, she mentioned -- she was saying that they don't represent islam, but use islam. but they are using islam wrong. they brought her to the court a meter swea -- and made her

qu'ran, but that is not how you are converted to islam. the prophetic texts say "fear the supplication of the oppressed." he never mentioned it is a muslim or not a muslim. defenderaid "i am the of the religious minority against the muslim that t."gresses agains it is a big question for the way i see it is there taking certain concepts or phrases and adding to it and appropriating new meanings that don't exist. for example, one of the things i'sy told her is that yazid don't count. the concept of the people of the book in islamic law is not

prescriptive. it describes an organized religion that has a legal code, and a book, meaning a sacred text. eastward, expanded they encountered yazidis. these communities have coexisted with muslim since the first generation of islam until now. scholarsese religions, understood these people of the book because it is a description. these differences is how they misunderstand certain things. the basic access around which this exists is a concept of declaring people to be apostates. according toate, them. therefore they can be aggressive towards me. i don't pledge allegiance to them. with this tactic, they go on. last thing, she mentioned that

in cairo, why doesn't the senior leadership of sunni islam declare isis as non-islamic? our understanding of organizations like isis is even worse than apostasy. there was no capital punishment for apostasy. they are outliers. in all of his mercy, and love, idd beautiful teachings, he sa oft they are the dogs hellfire. tidings to those that fight them, and kill them, and are killed in the process of killing them. a derogatoryre of statement than being an apostate. it is an obligation on all of us, and the family of islam, to

do what we can to combat it with whatever tools we have. chairman johnson: one quick question. population?muslim billionllio this?, how many adhere to >> isis does not need a lot of numbers. they can hold territory with 200 people. they are a small minority even within the syrian rebel groups. they are still a smaller group than others. i think because of the violence and brutality they deter people.

they use a word which means deterrence with extreme violence. when they kill one person, they make sure that when hundred or 1000 people see that person being killed. carper: did you say we have five minutes? chairman johnson: there are so many people. sen. carper: again, our thanks to each of you for joining us today. for sharing parts of your life not easily shared. we are deeply grateful for each of you. the united states, people of many different religions. the a protestant, catholic, jew, muslim, buddhist, and other religions as well. one of the reasons why our country was established was because of the concept of freedom of religion.

people yearning to not just be free but to be free to worship god as they saw fit. there are some who take the in america people are probably protestant and catholic. ke verses ofta scripture out of the bible and crashed them into things in ways that are not meant to be. there are people in our own faith who bastardize our faith. a great example is an eye for an eye. say allows you to go read revenge. but that's a passage says revenge is mine, said the lord. when i was a stranger in your land, did you take me in? we have some political leaders in this country, i don't know if they read matthew 25. thee are some who argued

united states needs to stop accepting not just syrian refugees, but in some cases all muslim refugees. in the case of the syrian refugees, that includes people who are not muslim. the could be different faiths, christian, a variety of other religions. and just ask what are your opinions about a ban on all syrian refugees? or all muslim refugees? how would such a ban affected this country to counter isis propaganda? really trained as a politician. >> neither are we. [laughter] >> at the risk of making a political statement, i think as

an american i understand -- r: what are your thoughts about how a ban on all syrian refugees or muslim refugees -- how does that affect our ability to counter isis propaganda? is on america not to accept refugees. legal, political, and moral authority to take people in that we can. that is what makes our nation great. from a social cohesion standpoint, societies that are more plural are stronger. i think that by bringing in refugees we will be able to understand the problem. we will see how we can help them more. i think some form of isolationism, or rejection only

increases the problem. that makes it faster more. sen. carper: other witnesses, same question. i triedirst one is that to keep in touch with people that were from syria. i've seen how the european recently, they accepted them. that was a positive. you only hear good things from refugees. it plays the germans -- they praise the germans. we recognize in the united states that thousands of syrian refugees who left syria and are now in turkey and europe or the united states have been instrumental in providing intelligence, mapping, guidance. areas inates in these

eastern syria and northeastern syria. beenese people have affected the most by the violence. there is a reason why they were helpful. sen. carper: thank you very much. mr. nahas: from my experience as a refugee, i went to the process list of i can say that it is very unlikely for the process to let any terrorist -- it is a highly intense process. it takes security checks, background checks, waiting for over a year or at least a year. they ask you a lot of personal questions. for the slightest chance to let a terrorist, or a guy or a girl

that believes in these ideologies to get through is highly unlikely. carper: could you briefly respond to my question? ms. murad: [speaking foreign language] >> i would like first to say that every country has the right to protect itself, and to protect its borders. ms. murad: [speaking foreign language] >> but to the people who are escaping religious discrimination and genocide should not face closed doors before them. ms. murad: [speaking foreign language] >> i would like to say of the terrorists want to go to

someplace, they can go. the process, some of them have already immigrated. sen. carper: i think we have a moral imperative here. we need to be true to those words written on the statue of liberty. tohave a moral imperative matthew 25. a moral imperative to the people that live here. they want to live in safety. i think our challenge is to make sure that while we need to be alloto our faith, wing people on the run to be welcoming to them. he also at the same time have to be mindful of the need to protect our safety. sometimes those are in conflict. the last thing you want to say,

my understanding is every religion, including islam, has the golden rule. is that true? is that not true of islam? >> yes, it is. wouldarper: if all of us abide by that we would all be a lot better off on this planet. chairman johnson: we went over, we need to keep five minutes to be respectful. senator ayotte? ayotte: i want to thank the chairman, and for all of you being here. we are so sorry for what you have gone through. courage in coming forward today is very important for us to hear what you have endured. it is horrific. i want to follow on the issue that you raised. i would like to have the dcotor

comment on it -- doctor comment on it. he said what they are doing is beyond and apostate. you describe it as the dogs of hellfire. i would agree with that. what i want to understand, to what ms. murad asked, as we look at how the reaction should be -- for example, she may have identified the seminary in cairo. i believe you started at that. that is a very important seminary. do you believe that leaders in others in the and muslim world, have described, and called out them in the way as have described it today forcefully as they should? >> just a correction, i was

quoting the prophet muhammad. i happen to, and agree with that. to answere: i want her question. do you think that leaders in a position to influence what isl do youy stands for, think you have an forceful enough and calling out, however you call them, how they are testified as you today -- your religion? >> yes and no. are very those who outspoken. one is written a very extensive nonbinding religious opinion in english against isis.

he makes the argument, which is valid, that isis is outside of the folds of hiislam. scholars are a little bit slow on the uptake. sen. ayotte: we need leaders. ak that is one of the wee points is the communications capacity. i helped establish communications in egypt before it went to princeton. when i asked them how you deal with journalism they said we call the police and arrest them. i said no, you have to work with the media. what you're trying to say will not get out there. there is a lot of training that can happen. i believe with you, there is more to be done. sen. ayotte: thank you. i. murad, i wanted to say,

engagedthat daesh has in what crimes and crimes against humanity and genocide. you believe ito is -- you put in your written testimony today and told us, how important is it for the united states to formally recognize the actions as genocide? i mean, with reference to the yazidis, and how they are treating them? ms. murad: [speaking foreign language] >> it is very important for us that what happened to be acknowledged as a genocide. ms. murad: [speaking foreign language]

>> on the 16th of this month, the u.n. acknowledged in the who are for the yazidis been hopeless for the past two years. this is the first time they started having some hope. ms. murad: [speaking foreign language] >> i would like these crimes to be legally recognized. i would like to be acknowledged. i would like you to look into the crimes, and things i have said today. there are things that daesh has publicly said they will do it. and they did it. i would like you to look at this. want to thank all

of you for being here. i would just say there is a senate resolution, 340, which would call this for what it is, a genocide. i hope you can come together and to see -- i would like the administration declare this a genocide. i would like us in congress to come together and declare this for what it is. thank you. >> i want to thank all of you for your testimony. i came in toward the last half of your comments. you said, i want to confirm this, >> isis has nothing to do with islam, is what i believe i said. >> tell me the difference real quick. >> i begin by saying that normal islam is defined by interpretive methodology.

i walked through a little of what that is. the texts lived in time. there is a tradition in how we interpret these verses. unlettered in the fundamentals of the religion. it is based on their own whims and desires prima facae. >> i keep coming back to why these guys exist. criminal element that we saw in paris and brussels. engineers,octors, that are part of it, that frankly, should not be part of a twisted ideology as this. can you tell me what about their ideology appeals to that broad

professionals and and everything in between? >> he would know more. intellectually or academically, the first thing i point out is that i do not know they necessarily believe that what isis is saying or they are coerced. >> by force? >> by isil. >> believe this, or you are going to die? >> exactly. as we have heard of stories that have come out of isil- controlled areas. there is a spectrum of extremism. it can start a something innocuous. there is something wrong with that way of thinking. when they find somebody that are frome -- like they central casting, they can pull them to that side. >> there are a lot of folks in

that group. would you like to comment on that briefly? >> i mentioned in the testimony before that the people who isis believes in our of two categories. radicals book -- that believe in declaring fellow muslims on apostates. they rely on two books that come to mind. i do not want to get into much detail. there is 1000 pages of a man who appears on tv and explains thatethodology of fatwah says it should not be done in the same way muslim clerics have

done it over the centuries. i can declare you as an apostate. you, my interpretation of so on and so forth. doctor.to you, steps the u.s. has taken that might encourage people to be a part of isil? >> no. honest, that is a tough question for me to answer. i think that the rhetoric that comes out of isil sometimes makes us think that, if it were not for the u.s. invasion in iraq, u.s. policy doing this or that. but the fact of the matter is that one can make that argument

for any other country. one could make that argument for any other regional player in the region. politics is all based on geopolitical interests and things like that. i do not think it is really fair. because america is so dominant in the world, it is an easy target. if america stopped doing this, we will stop doing that. we know they are not going to change. >> my time is up. i want to thank you all for your testimony. thank you. >> thank you so much, mr. chairman. thank you for such thoughtful comments and thoughtful words, such courage and bravery, especially our last two witnesses. everyone here who spends time on their smartphones during testimony really listened. you moved us all. thank you for your courage and

for the fact that you are survivors and are willing to provide testimony as to the horror and the imperatives that we, as good people, need to engage. i want to, for a minute, turn to our first two witnesses and engage in a discussion about message and messengers. or, i have fascinated about the work you have done ofponding to the perversion islam being done by these radical groups. obviously, having met with people who have been radicalized , you have a good sense of the messages we could deliver that could make a difference. especially in this country, when our greatest threat is radicalization of young men and women. we have seen that twice.

parts of the message, the right message and the messenger. i want you to respond to what you think the right message is and the right messenger. are you familiar with what the department of homeland security is doing today to try to provide a countermessage and offer advice to us as we review that in our role of oversight? that will be the last question i ask. >> thank you. in terms of message, it is different. it is complicated. --s should be treated us two as two organizations. the local one that operates in libya and iraq. they also have their own messaging. there is the international one, which is close to al qaeda.

they are trying to reflect and regather the networks of al qaeda that were dispersed after the terrorist attacks of 9/11. they're trying to do that in europe, the united states, and north africa. the messages should be different because they are different organizations. on the ground, there is the danger that its appeal has become international appeal. it has presented itself as an idea that everyone is fighting. the enemy of the organization is the last or something else. this organization stands for something. messageost effective against this is to not talk much about only the victims of isis outside the group it claims to represent, but rather what

really happened on the ground. on a daily basis, the group kills fellow sunnis, a group it claims to represent, and we do not see that in the media. next to my village, they killed 700 people. only the washington post did a story about that. that was the single most horrific massacre at the time. they killed a lot of people. they killed 700 people. that needs to be the message. look, this is not a sectarian organization. west.not islam versus the it is an extremist organization that recast itself in terms that people of that faith rejected. that needs to be hammered again and again. >> as far as messaging, i think there needs to be an unequivocal

counternarrative from muslim religious leaders. stuff.y-washy yes, no, black, white. what i have been trying to do is i conduct a monthly traditional class. i try to take one of the concepts that organizations like isil uphold and try to deconstruct it in a detailed way. ,y audience is primarily muslim but my goal is for young muslim people to understand why it is wrong. i am not saying i am the example, but that kind of effort is what we need more of. the english language is important in this regard. the media we see coming out of isil is in english. as far as recommendations, some of the things that come to mind, for example, in montgomery

county in maryland, we have noticed a drastic increase in bullying towards muslim students in the montgomery county public schools systems. anti-bullying work is important so children are not pushed to the side, isolated. in our organization, we work with helping refugees resettle. those services are important so people like nadia have something to plug in to. sorry, one less thing. training formedia muslim leaders abroad is important. there are a lot of people, a lot of good leaders, that are making the right argument. they need to know how. you cannot write a 40 page legal

opinion and expect that to be trending on twitter. what we are seeing is the dumbed -down version of what our teachers said. we need to think about how media works. media training is important. social media, that kind of thing. >> thank you. i want to be sure everyone gets a question. i will be ask everyone to be mindful of the five-minute limit. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you for our witnesses here today. thank you for your compelling testimony. your journey to this country is very important as we discuss refugees and folks like yourself who have been fleeing intense persecution and terror, that people see your face. your presence is important. will be aseople

moved as i know everyone on this panel has been moved. thank you for your courage to be here today. ctor, i would like you to respond to what seems to be a debate back and forth we are hearing in the political realm as to whether or not we should call isis radical islam. when you hear someone calling it andical islam," is that accurate description of what we are seeing? >> you seem to be intent on getting all the difficult questions. we are taught at seminaries there is no -- i'm trying to translate. there is nothing wrong with labels. a lot of times, we get stuck on labels. why are you saying this? labels are what their definition is. when someone says, i use that term, radical islam.

what i mean by it is people who look muslim doing horrible things. they are terrorists for sure. but they are different from neo-nazi groups. i personally do not have a problem with that when people say that in congress or the white house or in the media. i understand. however, i fear that can easily of reinto any form ligiosity from a muslim. that is the fear. >> that is a good question. personally, when i was in the year, i was an advocate of using these terms. saudi king.he late

he admonished high clerics for the first time in public. he said, you are not speaking up against isis when it came out. when i moved to the u.k. last year, i felt there is a question of messenger. who says the term and why? it is important to keep this in mind. isis didhe thing that in the middle east and trying to do elsewhere. it wants to polarize its enemies. they want to divide their enemies. they succeeded in the middle east. they are probably succeeding here by getting people talking about what to call it. what is clear is that the organization has declared war on islam. this is how it should be seen. it is a problem in the islamic world and needs to be dealt with

there. here, what can be done is helping muslims fight the organization. >> i appreciate that. the issue we face in the united states in dealing with this wolves.is lone is it safe to say the folks that might be inspired by this are folks that have little understanding of islam? is there a correlation? does that have something to do with this recent shooter who was claiming allegiance to isis and bollah? law -- hez can you maybe address things going on in the minds of lone wolves as to how we respond? >> absolutely. people that are self-radicalized, just like the radicals we have been speaking about this morning, they have little to no understanding of the religion whatsoever.

that is the danger. part of that is they had no training, no living teacher they can sit with and ask questions. tradition itive described earlier takes place. surfinga fear, people online and finding a lecture , formingtatement there a conclusion, and acting on it. i think more instruction and religious literacy for muslims will help in that regard. chairman.ou, mr. my words ofd appreciation and thanks to our panel. very powerful testimony. thank you for being here. -- i know theart

hearing is about the ideology of isis, of daesh. yet, it was cold in the wake of a horrible tragedy in orlando that was at once a terrorist inspired attack and also a hate crime. in this case, against members of the lgbt community. it was also latin night at the club. it is unclear if that was contributed to the targeting of the club on that particular night. , when you are testifying, you shared with us that attacks against lgbt syrians preceded the formation called forat it was bytolerated or perpetrated

the regime as well as militants who opposed the regime in syria, that they too perpetrated violence against lgbt syrians. bullying,., violence, intimidation, discrimination against members of the lgbt community has a long history also. days, you could certainly argue it was sanctioned at one point in our nation's history by the government also. but things have changed. and i want to just draw attention to something you highlighted in your testimony

about the un security council acting very recently to aregnize that lgbt rights human rights, a first in that international forum. you highlighted it as something important in moving forward. i guess i want to ask, in terms oryour proposals, recommendations to this committee and to others, how important it is for governments, for authorities, to regimes, to say lgbt rights are human rights. to dangerous is the silence that? >> thank you, senator, for this important question. as my own experience growing up syria, i knewn from an early age the government and mys against us,

existence was not legal. i was not allowed to say it out loud. i was not allowed to be in the open. it was punishable by three years in prison. i could be persecuted by your own community members. it is very important for us to get the words out there, to say to the government, hold them accountable, tell them that lgbt rights are human rights. my community tradition say that are sexual rights. to make this message clear to government and communities is very important to at least start to elevate the consequences that i witnessed in my country. we were being bullied all the

time, persecuted, thrown out in the streets, verbally and physically abused. we could not go anywhere. we cannot tell our families. we do, they will persecute us more. up andy, you have to man defend your self. platformsnternational were used in a proper way to deliver the message and tell the governments these rights should be addressed, it delivers a very strong message. >> thank you. i want to follow up. i am out of time. >> do it for the record. >> question for the record, then. sen. peters:'s asking questions radicalization and lone wolves.

in the case of orlando, it is not clear how deep an understanding the perpetrator had. ask an evennt to broader question about self-radicalization. we have seen in recent instances of mask and violence in the u.s. u.s.ss gun violence in the people who were radicalized but inspired by different types of hatred. hatred of minority religion, as we saw in wisconsin, when a gunman entered the sikh temple in oak creek. the gunmen in charleston.

what can we learn about self radicalization and studying those who have been self-radicalized by isil when dealing with self-radicalization for people who hold different types of hatred? >> the witnesses can answer in written responses. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you all for being here. appreciate your bravery in coming forward and your courage in being able to speak out. these are important days, and we need clear, articulate voices. isis?s the end goal for what do they see on the horizon? they say they want a caliphate that dominates the world. this is their stated mission. i think they are -- their

realistic objective is to control syria and iraq and become leader of a global jihad. that is why they spent so much effort on being more critical of al qaeda. they see them as competitors and rivals. their goal is regional dominance. obviously, they want to expand in the west and elsewhere. >> you are talking about regional dominance. yet they are trying to motivate people in western countries, whether it be europe, australia, the united states, to attack in those locations as well. why try to motivate people in australia or the united states or europe to fight for them if the goal is the caliphate there? >> listening to them and how they talk, reading the books they say they read, they talk about the war today. and this is important for the

anti-isis campaign. there is a tendency to think about technical defeat as strategic defeat against isis. itself as as long-term project. about exhausting the west, exhausting everybody else. 10 years ago, the americans were in iraq and had appetite to fight us. 10 years later, president obama had less appetite. in 10 years time, it will be even less. mostlyve a core that is consistent of security officials. these are the most dangerous people. most of them are member of saddam hussein's security apparatus. they shaped the organization and

how it works and ensure its survival. will not go away. you can defeat the members who joined it two years ago and so on, but they think of their strategy as a war of attrition. >> go back 15 years ago, 10 years ago, the united states was challenging leadership in islam to call out al qaeda and say it was not consistent. now it is a challenge towards say, that-nusra to does not line up with the theology. we see this springing up in multiple areas around the world, twisting off. it is not just around isis. it is mostly around isis today, but it could be others. it is a broad system.

a confront isis? confront a larger set of teachings? >> that is the difference between defeating the organization tactically. you can launch an effective military campaign and defeat it. you can expel it from falluja. the organization's appeal and spectrum, the broader appeal, like-minded groups like al qaeda that believe in violence as a strategic goal rather than violence just because they're pushed to violence. >> does the worldwide movement of isis diminish if they do not have a functioning caliphate in syria and iraq? >> it will, but we have reached the point today that what happened on the ground in iraq

and syria does not affect the international appeal of isis. this is because the campaign against isis has not been done properly. using the wrong forces to fight isis in towns that these organizations are viewed suspiciously is a disastrous campaign. state department officials sayingned in document allowing the ypg, an organization affiliated with the using thatey, organization to fight isis and other terrorist organizations in sunni-arab areas is wrong. i think the campaign today is allowing ices to convert -- isis to convert territorial losses into legitimacy. that is why i have been warning the campaign is only making isis

stronger. >> thank you. >> i think senator langford's line of questioning is right on. you say in your testimony you or defeat the group in raqqa falluja, but could you go a little deeper? what are you advising for us to do as we get these -- we are shrinking territory, clearly, but it seems like you are saying we are giving them more strength in the way we are doing it. isis,hink we defeated isis was defeated in iraq in 2006 but came back and took to 2010.m 2006 it was a marginal organization in iraq.

that worked. the policies that followed in -- when theaq united states pulled out of iraq before it was able to govern itself and there was perceived support between the u.s. and aliki despitewith m the fact he was weakend and there is another rival that is , the mistakes that success, the ,uccess between 2006 and 2010 led to circumstances that sunnis inis to tell

these areas to say the only way forward is to work together. they were able to mobilize people against the government. that is why they were able to take mosul in the summer of 2014. iraqi army toe flee. they took american weaponry and marched back to syria. they fortified raqqa and so on. they became a strong organization because of political failures. is so muchthat there focus on the military component rather than on the political and social and religious issues. >> i see your point. i appreciate your testimony discussing how we in the west should be trying to discredit or have islamic voices discrediting daesh.

maybe that gets me to your testimony, which i thought was wonderful, discussing all the ways they are perverting islam warhe way they are waging and taking advantage of our political failures in terms of how we are gaining territory. so this is not a clash of civilizations. islams people perverting and taking advantage of political realities. so i just want to get from you -- you said this already and i want to go one step deeper -- specifichat are the tactics to sort of expose isil for the perversions they are doing? what are the best ways to go about that? >> thank you, senator. i really believe in the common narrative.

that is very important. when i started to do this less than a year ago, i realized there was no very articulate, clear-cut counter narrative. how does islam deal with issues of plurality, citizenship? all of these things have been argued by 200 years but are unknown to the vast majority of muslims. the principles daesh claim as the bones of modernity have been dealt with already. it is based on the primary sources, which are important -- >> i have to interrupt you, doctor. i have to be mindful of my time. i want to say to mr. nahas and ms. murad, your testimony was so

courageous and moving. the outrageous attacks going on against lgbt people in the middle east and the united states, which as you point out in your testimony, is the most common form of hate crime, i am grateful for your courage. it is so profound. i am grateful you would come here and share your story. thank you so much. >> thank you, senator. i want to pick up on senator langford's and senator booker's line of questioning. right now in terms of success or lack of success against it? there is a state department report, very difficult numbers. they're changing all the time. when i looked at and did a calculation of the number of

people killed in terrorist attacks prior to 9/11, it is a little under 5000. 6, sevengrown 5, times. this is a growing threat. isis news reports show that isis-inspired attacks cost 191 ,000 lives the last two years. i realize we have made some progress. we have taken back territory. they still control territory. the analysis i'm using is that of a beehive in your backyard. stick, poke it with a but you are stirring up a hive. is that what we are witnessing? we have to defeat isis. we have to deny them the caliphate. but we have a lot of mopping up to do.

these terrorist groups are spreading, evolving, metastasizing. it is like a cancer. we are not winning this battle. >> i come from the position that isis and al qaeda are growing and there will be other groups that join them. their territories expanding for the next decade or two. ishink at this moment, isis being rolled back and defeated territorially. iraq, they lost 50% of their territory. in syria, 20% of their territory. libya, they are on the back foot. they are struggling to establish any presence. al qaeda is doing well in yemen. they are not doing well in afghanistan. capacity is limited.

however, i believe the ability to inflict damage is strong. they benefit from the open space on the internet, the self-radicalization. you can become self radicalized by watching a video by an american citizen. it is easy to become one of them. the radicalization is the sort swift. they can push a person in a short time to do damage. it is hard to predict, but it is there. gains inanswer, the syria and iraq -- does it give you much comfort? you think they are growing in strength over the next decade or two? >> that is good. the problem is the political track, the social, religious,

political process in iraq and syria, is lagging behind. if they catch up to the military advances, isis will go away for a while. for now, the focus is on military. >> dotor, i want to shift to the muslim brotherhood. it is often reported as a more moderate group. do you have any thoughts on the muslim brotherhood? >> a lot of thoughts. i think that goes back to what i was trying to say, the concept of the spectrum. some islamic groups, while of them are on the left of the spectrum, not open a violence, there are procedural changes where violence would be authorized. look what happened in egypt, my home country. i am always utterly shocked at ging our government is

with organizations like the muslim brotherhood, quite frankly. i spoke to people at the embassy in cairo. why don't you engage with muslim leaders? they gave me a drop-down list of all these activists. there is a big mismatch. by engaging with them so openly and freely, we almost legitimize that approach. so i think it is dangerous. i think it is definitely on the spectrum. necessarily necessity that it goes from one end to the other. >> sen. carper? >> we thank each of you for being with us today, spending this time with us, sharing your thoughts. your advice as well. a question.art with

i would invite other witnesses to respond. testimony, you wrote that the united states must highlight the war with isis is not a sectarian conflict. can point out there are muslims the -- isl sunni is am fighting isis. that said, some people in the u.s. are trying to paint this as a clash between the west and islam. i think our president made it clear he believes this kind of rhetoric is dangerous and plays into the hand of isis. do you agree with this? >> i agree this is not a sectarian war. -- it is not war

islam versus west. war is all, the about muslims versus muslims. this is what the ideology is built on. practically speaking, the way has ideology of isis was ad and become framed reaction to the events that happened after the iraq war, not the iraq war itself. how the sunnis reacted to the presence of americans on the ground. they started to appropriate events to the context that is going on. it was not at all about the west. it is about what is going on on the ground. >> thank you. is do youe question

agree that pretraining this war playsar against islam into the hands of isis? >> if anything, the victim of isil is islam itself. they have definitely declared war on our scholars, our tradition. that is the biggest tragedy. allies are best people like me. my life is threatened by being here, speaking out against this. i do not take that lightly. end.lly want this to i want to know what i can do to push that forward. in that desire is the greatest ally we have to counter the rhetoric and the ideas coming out of isil.

>> thank you. mr. nahas? >> i do not have the capacity to answer this question. >> nadia, do you want to respond to that question? do you believe painting this war -- against islam plays into the hands of isis? by pretraining this as a war against islam? >> [speaking foreign language] >> the first thing i did, i went to egypt to deliver that message. the things that happened to me,

i wanted to go to this country and tell them what happened. >> [speaking foreign language] >> i want to prevent the youth from joining islamic state. i told them what crimes were committed. yoanted to stop the flow of uth to them. is notking against this help for daesh. you have to speak against it. >> [speaking foreign language] >> also minimizing the role of daesh for the power is not right. miles, andthan 3000 they protect it all. tens of thousands are fighting for them. >> [speaking foreign language]

>> some of our villages are only 150 people. we have nothing to recapture these villages. how about big cities? it is not a small power. >> [speaking foreign language] >> speaking against isis does not mean speaking against islam and also does not mean speaking in favor of sunni or shia. when we speak against this, we are united. >> my time is expired. arechairman, you and i supporting legislation that would strengthen the ability of

the department of homeland security to reach out to faith communities, civic groups, to prevent isis from recording of americans. if i could just have 30 seconds and ask, what advice would you have for the department of homeland security as they put out -- put together this outreach? just maybe one strong piece of advice for homeland security. >> work with us. >> thank you. i will givearper, the witnesses to issue a closing statement. nadia, who helped you escape? >> [speaking foreign language] >> a muslim family. >> i think that answers your question. doctor, you said help us,

basically, help you. we are looking at specific efforts that would be going on to activate lone wolves in the united states, cells in belgium and france. this is a part of the war that obviously has western countries right where they are being , where citizens of those countries and american citizens are finding the perversion of islam so compelling they are willing to take up arms against fellow citizens in europe or the united states of america. we are clearly doing a lot already to empower local organizations in our communities, working with mos ques and panels where folks have given testimony.

we have allocated more resources for that. i have been one of the folks saying that effort should not be law enforcement-focused. they should be focused on empowering neighborhoods and networks. it will nots cbe, help deal with the core of the problem. you pointed out so clearly that this is a perversion of islam. this is not islam we are fighting against. elis is people using it to fu ,atred for political objectives to control territory and expand the reach of their totalitarian ends. my concern is i think we need to be doing more. more, to counter that narrative. i liked what you said in one of

your responses. another 150-page paper is not as effective against the memes you see online that seduce vulnerable souls to this type of terrorist activity. i understand your short answer to a short question, but i am trying to figure out the specific strategies. we are seeing some of them working. you expose the fact that isil is killing far more muslims, far more sunnis, than people in the west. soreally begins to expose that young people who might be susceptible see them for who they are, naked before their eyes. those are the strategies we need to invest in more. in the two minutes i left you in

a three-minute preamble, can you go to the core of those things? where would you be placing those dollars? we have a very successful model in montgomery county called the brave model, a public-private partnership. it is a really good program. it is given national recognition. we are trying to export this model, train other counties in the country that need this message. i do a lot of the counter narrative. i would love to be in a position where i can train other muslim leaders in this country and counterparts in western europe. i did the research. i am happy for them to take it and say they did it. i am happy for people just to get the message out. i also mentor people. people that might be on the spectrum that are referred to us by law enforcement, the school board.

there is no capacity for local government to deal with them and talk with them. i try to decipher -- is there a problem? is it a mental health issue? then i try to refer them to programs that will help them. this public-private partnership is working in our county. if i had some say in the purse strings, i would like to be in a the countiesrain that need it the most, and go overseas to cities like brussels, london, and work with counterparts to train them in this model. >> that is a proactive strategy. it would save a lot of money on reaction with law enforcement or something happening. today, your testimonies have been testimonies of courage. you are risking your life by coming here, by speaking truth, evil that wee the are up against. for that, i am deeply grateful.

>> thank you, senator booker. you are right. of people of the evil threatening someone speaking the truth. i would like to make a final comment. you will start with you. covered most of it. i want to emphasize that we all s, what it doesi to the people it claims to represent. these are emphasize the victims as much as others are. that needs to be present in the media. it is not one person's or. it is -- war. it is everyone's war. >> you get the harder questions because you have "dr." in front

of your name. >> thank you for the opportunity to address the committee, submit testimony on something that is much more than work. this is something very personal. of my children when i come here and how the rhetoric, even though they are young, the political rhetoric is something that scares them. i hope what we are doing here will build a more resilient alliance so the america they grow up in is better than the america i grew up in. >> thank you, senators, for the opportunity to speak in front of you. every time i have a chance to speak and talk about my experience, i think about my counterparts that are still in danger, that are still under threat because of -- because they are different, because they do not confirm with other people's expectations.

i hope the united states will take a stand and be more active in holding governments and other actors on the ground accountable for their actions and do something about this. >> nadia? >> [speaking foreign language] you, and thank you for all the attendees and witnesses who came here. >> [speaking foreign language] >> i wish that we all can work together and stand up together to stop this terrorism. >> [speaking foreign language] >> i would like also for you to recognize our genocide and bring every single one from islamic

state, whether they are a leader or a soldier, to bring everyone of them to justice. >> we would love to see that. >> i do not have any more questions. i would just like to thank all of you. one of the key takeaways for me is we talk about the golden rule. schools our children went to, there is bullying. in some cases, i remember a parent was aware bullying was going on. i remember going and speaking out to make sure that did not persist. i think we were successful. i applaud the folks of the , those who are speaking up at real risk to personal safety. i want to make sure you do not pay any price for that.

that is a matter of concern. for the kids who are being bullied because they happen to i ama name like nahas, concerned about them. they somehow are paying the price as well. advice, itiving them vocal, brave, speaking out against the abuses we see perpetrated by isis. ask may be a hard thing to kids to do. end, theyk in the will be safer and will ultimately feel better about their situation. >> thank you. i want to thank all the witnesses for your testimony, for your courage. have accomplished our goal of helping us understand this better.

we have a long way to go to fully understand this. you certainly helped. thank you for your testimony and courage. the hearing record will remain open until july 6 at 5:00 p.m. for the submission of statements and questions the record. this hearing is adjourned. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

>> i am pleased that the senate as a body has come to this conclusion. willision in the senate undoubtedly provide citizens who have greater access and exposure to the actions of this body. this access will help all americans to be better informed of the problems and the issues which face this nation on a day by day basis. >> during the election i had the occasional meeting with a woman who had supported me during my campaign. and she decided to come to shake my hand and take a photograph. a wonderful woman, she wasn't asking for anything and i was very grateful she took the time to come by. it was an unexceptional moment, except for the fact she was born

in 1894 and her name was marguerite lewis, an african-american woman who was born in louisiana, born in the shadow of slavery, born at a time when lynchings were commonplace, born at a time when african-americans and women could not vote. >> it took our country from the time of its founding until the mid-1980's to build up a billion,debt of $850 which was the size of this package when it came over here. we are talking about real, borrowed money. >> 30 years of coverage of the u.s. senate on c-span2. chair janeteserve yellen will be on capitol hill for her second day in a row this morning. this time, to update members of the house financial services

committee on the current status of the economy and what monetary policy is doing to sustain the recovery. yesterday she briefed members of the senate committee. watch your testimony today at 10:00 a.m. eastern, live on c-span3. >> attorney general loretta lynch traveled to orlando to meet with survivors and first responders from last week's mass shooting. the justice department will make $1 million in emergency funding available to the florida department of law enforcement to help cover the costs of responding to the tragedy. lynch spoke for 20 minutes at a news conference yesterday.

loretta lynch: good afternoon, everyone. thank you all for being here. i am joined here by the u.s. attorney here. i am also joined here by fbi special agent in charge, fbi assistant special agent in charge, atf, atf special agent in charge. i am also honored to be joined by orlando chief of police and orange county sheriff jerry demings. i thank them for being here with me today. i am here to meet with the investigators and stay and local partners on the ground and to support the people of this great city and all of those who have been affected by this devastating tragedy. but i am also here to reaffirm this administration's unshakable commitment to the safety of our

citizens, to the security of our nation and the strength of our values. early today i met with u.s. attorney lee bentley and his staff, who are helping to coordinate the justice department's participation in this ongoing investigation, which includes my colleagues at the fbi, atf, the national security division, and the u.s. attorney offices here in florida. i have also visited with some of the family members. those who have been lost and wounded in this attack. this afternoon i will meet with state and local law enforcement and first responders and they could not be more proud of all the members of the orlando community that i have met with and who are gathering to meet me here today. and i've made clear that the department of justice stands with them. we are doing that in a number of ways. first, we are providing assistance to the first responders in law enforcement officers as they aid in the investigation of this heinous crime. in addition, the department of

justice is making available $1 million in emergency funding, available to the florida department of law enforcement. the state will be able to apply for these funds on behalf of orlando and other affected jurisdictions to cover for example, overtime costs for state and local responders. we will move quickly to make this award as soon as possible. we are also offering emergency counseling resources to first responders to help them deal with the trauma that they too have experienced. because in their bravery, they shoulder the dangers that are visited on all of us and they carry that weight long after the smoke has cleared and we will continue to make any and all resources available to them as this investigation unfolds, but the department of justice is also determined to do anything that we can to help this community heal, to recover and to become whole again. our office for victims of crime and the fbi office for victim

assistance have already worked with local, state, and federal officials and community groups to set up a family assistance center service -- excuse me, a family assistance center. service providers are on the ground, providing crisis counseling and other support. without also making -- we're also making federal emergency funds available to cover for example, travel expenses, mental health expenses, and other costs related to this tragedy. the of the hub experts on th -- we also have experts on of the scene to help the short-term and long-term planning. there is no doubt that this was a shattering attack on our nation, on our people, and on our most fundamental ideals, but the message of orlando goes far beyond one night of unspeakable terror. the message of orlando that i have seen today and what the

american people have seen in the wake of this horrific assault is a message of determination to live our lives freely and without fear and to stay true to the principles of liberty, justice, and equality that defines america at its best. i am deeply proud at the way the federal, state, local law enforcement officers, and first responders here have gone b above and beyond the call of duty. i am so inspired by the strength of the survivors. i'm deeply moved by the way this community, and our national community, has stood together in support of one another in defiance of terror and in defense of our most cherished ideals. and let us be clear. those ideals they include the understanding that our diversity makes us stronger and that no matter who we are, what we look like, where we are from, or whom we love, this extraordinary

nation belongs to us all. i know that the lgbt community in particular has been shaken by this attack. it is indeed a cruel irony that a community that is defined almost exclusively by whom they love is so often a target of hate. and let me say to my lgbt friends and families, particularly to anybody who might view this tragedy as an indication that their identities, that their essential selves, might be better left unexpressed or in the shadows, this department of justice, and your country, stands with you in the light. we stand with you to say the good in this world far out wei ghts the evil. our common humanity transcends our differences. the most effective response to hatred and terror is compassion, unity and love. we stand with you today as we

grieve together in long after the cameras are gone, we look continue to stand with you as we grow together in commitment, solidarity, and in the quality. once again, i want to thank all of my colleagues. and i want to express my gratitude for what the partners on the ground have done here and what they will continue to do to move the efforts forward. i want to pledge the ongoing support of the department of justice and the entire obama administration as the work to ensure the safety and security of all americans. thank you all and at this point in time, i am happy to take a few questions. let me start here and then i will go to this lady in the front. >> did the fbi mr. the warnings?

mateen wasch: mr. investigated. we look to see whether or not he was going to act to carry out some of the statements he was making. we did not find evidence at that time and it was closed. he came under the radar again in the context of another investigation because somebody that he knew had traveled overseas to become a suicide bomber. he was interviewed then but was not directly involved. we are going back and looking at all of our contact with him, as are asking other people to go back and look back at the contacts with him. this lady here. cooperatingmily with investigators? do you have any better timeline?

investigationthis is active, open, and ongoing. we are seeking to talk to, as i mentioned before, anybody who knew mateen, who might be able to shed light on his actions, his motivations, on anything about him. at this point, we are not discussing other individuals, except to say that we are sticking to gather as much information as we can. at this point, we cannot provide the information at this time. and then i will go to the gentleman in the back and the lady in the front. no you, sir. >> what about releasing the 911 call? are you open to doing that? loretta lynch: we are. as you know, we released a transcript of the 911 call. when we have a situation like this, like in san bernardino, where the killer is deceased,,

we can provide more information, as opposed to where the matter is handled in the court, where we are limited by the rules of evidence. we are trying to provide as much information as possible over the course of time. we are certainly open to that. i cannot tell you when orla context. but i can tell you i am open to that. as i said, we are going to go back and look at our contact with him and see if there was anything we did miss. as we have indicated, the first investigation involved him and his own statements. the issue is always, is the individual going to act on any indicates that might violence? a full investigation was done there. the other investigation was in context with somebody else.

but we are going to go back and look at all of that. i'm going to come to this lady and then right behind you. hear you. icouldn't at this point, we're still reconstructing all of that. as you can imagine, the ballistics experts are going through the club and have gathered a great deal of evidence.