the european union on world financial markets. after that another chance to see c-span's interview with senator bernie sanders of vermont. >> this week on q&a, arthur and senior fellow -- arthur and senior fellow arthur herman. he discusses his book "american warrior." >> arthur herman, what made douglas mccarter so controversial? >> well, a number of things. i think there was aspect of his personality, his politics and then there's also simply the --

what can i say? the distance of the man. i'll start with that first. he was someone who was a major american figure for more than half a century. someone who commanded american troops in action and helped to note american war policy in one, not two, but three world wars and the cold war. here's somebody who really with the possibly exception of franklin roosevelt was presided at more events and made more decisions that shaped the history of 20th century united states than -- i can't think of anyone else. with the exception of f.d.r. there was his politics. he was conservative republican which didn't rub well with the democrat presidents he had to

work with particularly f.d.r. and harry truman. but he wasn't a con serb active -- conservative taft republicans. he was not someone interested in overturning aspects of the new incipient welfare state when he runs for president in 1952. he's more moderate than that. and that offended some conservatives at that point. he's a resolute anti-communist at a time when again, a lot pinning on the left is -- is more sympathetic and more willing to work with the soviet union. and then there's the person -- the man himself. he is somebody who always gives off the err that he is the smartest person in the room. and that if you don't know it, you're going to find out very soon. but the decisions that he made are made from the best possible evidence from the weightest

judgment and therefore shouldn't and can't be questioned. this is something again that rubs other people with similar large scale egos the wrong way and it led to friction and conflict, both with american presidents, two in particular, f.d.r. and truman but also -- but also led to conflicts with people within his own service and in the other branches of the u.s. military in that half century-plus career. host: when did you decide you wanted to write a big book on him? >> a big book on him. the idea of a book on macarthur was planted on my head by an editor at random house original. and i had thought about macarthur as a great follow-up as some of the biographical work that i had done. i had done the general mack carty work. the war in the pacific, particularly the southwest pacific had intrigued me when i

was working on my book on gandy and churchhill. it was one of those moments when someone sort of flash assign on you and suddenly everything con verges and you realize this is some i would love to do but something i think could be really different from the kinds books that had been written about macarthur in the past and re-evaluate wait -- who this person was. but his virtues made him one of the most adored and adulated figures in the american history and also what were his flaws an what were the things -- and what were the things that made him unpleasant and hated by millions of people. host: you have some video from in 1952 national republican convention. people had never seen him get a chance to see what he looked like. this video is not very sharp. but let's watch this and we'll ask you about it.

>> i speak with a sense of pride that all of my long life i have been a member of the republican party. [applause] as before me, was my father, an ardent supporter of abraham lincoln. [applause] i have an abiding faith that this party if it remains true to its great traditions can provide the country with a leadership which as in the days of lincoln will bring us back to peace and tranquility. host: that was 1952. he died in 1964. he was 84 years old when he died. where was he in his life at this point? arthur herman: it's an interesting clip. it's hard to believe that man is

72 years old. he looks great. and everybody who knew macarthur always were stunned at the degree -- even at times during enormous stress like during the korean war and leading the southwest pacific area during world war ii people were stunned that he seemed to be very healthy, very strong. people always talked about how tall macarthur was. he was under six feet. it was that he stood so tall and erect that he had this bearing about him that made people add a couple of inches to his height. the other thing i would remark about that is that that's not macarthur at his best that is a speed of a man who is at that point deeply disappointed. to really get a sense of where macarthur is in terms of his rhetorical power, you really have to go back to his speech to the joint session of congress right after he returned from

korea in which the house rose as a body over 50 times to applaud lines of the speech -- and that's of course, the one that finishes with the famous old soldiers never die, they only fadeaway. a soldier that has done his duty as he sought. that's probably macarthur at his best. but this is an interesting clip for this reason. this is a disappointed macarthur. this is a macarthur that had hoped that that speech to the joint session of congress would be the propellant for getting him into the white house, getting in the republican nomination and in fact, he got almost nowhere. he was swamped by the taft and eisenhower forces. and eisenhower, his former chief of staff going back to the days in the philippines, the person he always looked down on as a nd of -- soft -- sort of a junior officer type protege.

host: did he support him? >> he does. he does. up until the convention he took his 10 delegates that he had when the convention taft. he was a taft support her. he was 'em bittered about how they treated him. but they become more recon siled. eisenhower reached out to truman to ask his advise about how to end the korea war which is going to be one of those endless wars that we otten used but are used to today. that's not how we usually see macarthur. macarthur early on understood the importance of -- of trademark look as way to project eadership.

host: like the cover on the book. >> like the cover on the book. which by the way he didn't smoke. cigarettes preferred and cigars. that's douglas macarthur. , the hat, the cap with the scrambled eggs on top and the eagle which he designed himself, as a matter of fact. he had a haber dasher in new york who when he lost a hat he would have an exact copy sent to him. the letter jacket -- the air force jacket that he would wear, the ray ban sunglasses all of these things made douglas macarthur an icon, all of them very consciously worked on in his thinking about himself as a leader because he saw these as ways in which to communicate that sense of leadership, that

sense of confidence which inspired his troops from really from the first world war all the way through to the darkest days in korea. host: in this clip he mentioned his father. and you point out how the two of them are both in the military. they both got a medal of honor. they're both generals. arthur herman: the medal of honor that arthur macarthur learned during the siege of chattanooga leading the seeng at lookout mountain. host: civil war. >> he is 16 years old when he goes off to war. becomes agitant to the 24th wisconsin. when you look at pictures of him, you kind of have a feeling that you're looking at somebody who is dressed up for halloween as a union soldier as a kid. t that's the real arthur

macarthur. he's severely wounded. d at the end of the war he commands his regiment. he's not old enough to vote but he is old enough to command a union army regiment. he could have gone into politics. he could have gone into business. he was a wisconsin hero. and instead what he did was to remain in the army and served on as i describe in the book, the series of john ford movie sets out, you know, ford from films like "fort apache" and "she wore a yellow ribbon" where he brings his wife and his sons are all born there. his career are in many ways are a pathway to douglas macarthur's. one of the things i wanted to do in this book suzzwus to make it clear how much the linkage between macarthur the son and

macarthur the father and how strong that link was. most of them talk about the mother. he's a very powerful figure in macarthur's life up until her death in 1935. but arthur macarthur is the person who teaches him about the art of war, who teaches him about the honor of service in the u.s. military, u.s. army and also the one who opens his eyes to america's possibilities as a great power in asia in becoming the light of democracy and free come in asia as the european colonial powers and empires fall apart. arthur macarthur was the david petraeus of the philippininess recollection. he figures out how to defeat the philippines insurrection. and by a ruiz captures the

philippine leader who he then sign as peace treaty with and releases from prison. he begins the process of reconstruction as military governor there. and there's a whole series of reforms to bring the philippines, a former spanish colony into the common world and to give it rule of law, sanitation and road services and roads. he even write as textbook on philippine history for his school kids. he's a master administrator as well as a brilliant military strategist. and as i point out in the book, when he son douglas then goes t to japan to administer the occupation, the post war japan, everyone is amazed at his ability to pull this society together and to make these important even radical changes in some ways and to juggle all of the forces and all the

different pressure groups within japan and in washington and the other allies with such effortless skill and part of is as i explained in the book he learned all of this from his father. host: you mentioned his mother. i might as well go there. >> sure. host: did you say he finished first at west point? >> he was probably the finest record of a student at west point of anyone since robert e. lee and a record that still stands unchallenged till this day. host: all right, can you tell us. i know that f.d.r.'s mother moved near him when he went to harvard. why did douglas macarthur's mother move to west point? >> she moved there to do two things. one is to help supervise his studies. she lived in a rooming house outside the grounds of west point. there they are. that's young douglas there on the right and of course, his mother mary pinkney.

she looks pretty formidable in that picture and she was. when i started this book, i was very much led by other biographers who think of this domineering woman, almost a kind of lady mack beth type sort of pushing and propelling her son forward in her career. and she did push and did propel him forward but what i came to realize the more i learned about their relationship and how it was built, you realize and this is the second think that she did at west point, she provided strong and emotional support and guidance for him with the really strong decisions he had to make. he conveys an image of a man who's totally certain of himself, completely in command, someone who is sure of every decision that he makes and choices that he makes in life. this is one of the characteristicses everybody

noticed about him. but underneath him was someone very insecure filled with self-doubts, merrimac arthur, his mom provided that support. he would find it later on with his second wife, jean macarthur. but her role, i came to realize re and more was very constructive, very helpful and i don't think he would have achieved the kinds of heights and success in the army if she hadn't been there to support him and provide help and guidance. host: i hake hate to do -- hate to do this to you. >> go ahead. host: short quick points from the different periods in his life. we've got so much to go into. but and you'll see why i want to do this. but what did he do that was significant in world war i? >> well, he did two things. one was what earned him -- should have earned him a medal

of honor. nobody had any doubts about it was his incredible bravery in tion leading troops of the 42nd division, the rainbow divisions it was called and commanding a combat brigade within that division. he wins seven silver stars in world war i. host: what does that mean? >> it means for exceptional bravery under fire. he's a staff officer. he's someone who goes and leads the troops from the front. he says i have to go see what our guys are going up against, what the terrain is and what the enemy positions look like. and so he goes to action on a regular basis. seven silver stars, two distinguished medals and nominated for a medal of honor but in the end, general pershing says no -- his incredible bravery goes without question.

however, if he had been killed he would get a medal of honor. but he survives so i think we're going to skip the medal of honor. he part of the general staff help to structure the american expeditionary force as it went over. he helped build the 42nd division to go over there and to organize which divisions that weren't ready for this conventional warfare in europe, he was the one that helps to mastermind the whole campaign, the whole putting together of this force that pershing leads in the war. so he's a hugely influenceable figure as a young major and brigadier general. host: what year did he go to europe and fight? >> 1917. it would be in the fall of 1917. the main action that he and the 42nd division saw was in 1918. host: was he married? >> no, he was still single. host

>> he would have been in his 30's? >> in his 30's. host: he had to be a brigadier general. let's go to world war 2. what's the major accomplishment? >> he manages to turn what looked like a massive defeat in the philippines into a spring board vick toimplet i mean it in this sense, the philippines comes into attack the same time as pearl harbor, it wipes out the b-17 force that macarthur and everybody else in the army air force thought they were going to defend those islands protect them from japanese invasion. he's completely outclassed in terms of equipment, in terms of quality of soldiers, numbers of soldiers that he could rely upon in the campaign. and yet in the retreat the baton, he mansioned to fight the japanese to a stand still. he's pulled out from there by

orders from franklin roosevelt, contrary to myth, macarthur didn't arrange to leave the philippines and the fortress where he was holed up with a handful of his stand. he intended that he was going to feend -- to fight to hi death. orders him to go to australia. host: the philippines are located -- >> closer to japan. macarthur understood that it was the spring board that lead to the invasion of japan. host: who owned the philippines? >> it was still an american protectorant. host: and where is corrigador? it's in the middle of the

bay. it was a way to control and to block naval -- japanese or any naval forces to seize manila from the sea. but the japanese didn't bother with that. >> where is baton. >> it's the peninsula that sticks out like a thumb just to the west of manila and sticks into manila bay. and that's were macarthur's army had to make its last stand against the japanese onslaught. host: the next step would be when he was in charge of japan after the war. what did he do there? >> you can't forget the campaigns in the southwest pacific area. he took the situation where he had very scant supplies and turned it into major victories. >> what year? >> that would be in march of 1942. and three bloody years of fighting in new guinea and the

solomons and then up to liberate the philippines. host: and where is new guinea? >> new guinea is the second largest island after australia that sits north of australia. and it was a jumping off place for the japanese for invasion of australia to invade it. >> how many troops were under his control? >> in the very early days he had perhaps 5,000. in the end he commands the largest military force the united states has ever assembled for the invasion of the the philippines and then he was to placed in charge of the island of japan for the final onslaught for operation down fall which doesn't happen because we drop atomic bombs. host: is it true he didn't know they were dropping atomic bombs? >> he learns about it by reading "stars and stripes." he was aware that the bomb had been developed.

he had been given that information but that it was going to be used and when it was going to be used, all this was kept secret from him. host: would he have used it? >> i think not. i think he was -- i think he felt that the bomb had this tremendous potential to completely undermine and demoralize the japanese. he was more in favor of using it in a demonstration way as opposed to an actual dropping of it. and for the rest of his life macarthur looked upon nuclear weapons as being really -- something that should mark the end of warfare as we know it and was part of his whole campaign towards later on in his life towards unilateral disarmament. host: during world war ii, was he married? did he have children? >> he met had met his wife because i explain in the book from the oral history that his wife did before she died. this is jean macarthur, the

second wife. they met out in the voyage to the philippines when he went to assume the philippine military commission the united states had help set up there to help the philippines build a south defense force, base clip an army that could be used to defend the islands. this is why he headed out there. his mother was with him. she was very ill at the time. i don't think it's coincidental that shortly after his mother dies and was buried in the philippines is not so coincidental that his friendship with jean faircloth was her name, a girl from murphiesboro, tennessee not far from where his father fought at the battle of stones river where my great grandfather had fought. . t's not coincidental that they had a romance. and they had a secret agreement

to marry. >> when did he divorce his wife? >> the divorce comes about 1927, 1928. host: i've got it down 1927 from the book. >> 1927. it was a very unhappy marriage. i think he fell hopelessly inlo west virginia her while he was superintend dwent her at west point. she was his first wife louis brooks. she was very vivacious. she was delightful company. she was very sexy. weal course, enormously thy with the sell. -- settlement with her husband. she was irresistible to macarthur. ter the marriage he began to realize that he picked the right

person. his mother disapproved of the marriage was able to provide and who jean was able to provide and providing that same kind of vivacious outgoing sexy personality that made her the perfect companion for him as wife, as mother and as confidant. host: why did you have access to his wife's history? >> it's now at the macarthur memorial archives in norfolk, virginia where i spent a great deal time working on this boofpblg it hadn't been available. she had always promised to douglas that she would not do an oral history. and her son also had made that same promise to her, don't do that. our lives together are private. the public record about myself douglas would tell her is public. our lives together is private.

t just before she died she realized to ignore that promise and carry forward with it. host: he lives to be 100 -- >> she dies in 2002. you might want to check on that. host: how long did they live at astoria?rf >> i'm not clear how long she continued to live there by herself. but for years after -- her son after all was arthur macarthur. the waldorf astoria apartment was a place for him not just a refuge but also a watch tower where you keep track of current events and have distinguished visitors including american presidents. it was -- and place to gather the mementos from his years in japan.

host: everything else about his preearlier life had been destroyed during the recapture of manila during world war ii. everything had gone in spoke at the hotel manila. he's a man who -- and this is -- a couple of times basically had to rebuild his life, rebuild the mementos, the favorite things around him and his family several times. these were the remarkable things about him, i think that i would want -- people who read the biography. this was someone who was knocked down and beaten down so many times in his career when he could have been written off as someone who would be -- until the end of his career. this is the end of his service to america and yet he always comes back. it's and extraordinary story. host: the next step, japan -- houpping was he in japan and how much power did he have? >> pretty much absolute. he was empowered by the other allies and by president truman

to basically do what he liked in order to reconstruct japan. and he did it with success that even his most severe critics today who have gone over his record with a fine tooth comb looking for any serious mistake, even his severe critic give him high marks with what he was able to do with japan. take a country who was a broken nation, devastated by war, demoralized by defeat with a cloud hanging over it because of the way in it it had behaved treating the chinese and allied p.o.w.'s. it was a country whose reputation was in tatters and he manages to rebuild its economy, mansion to restore a sense of pride, give it a new democratic constitution the same one they have today and to really bring

japan into integrated into the family of industrialized democracies of which were part and europe. it's an amazing achievement. he didn't do it also important instructions that came from washington about what to do. in the end, the ability to orchestrate the re-construction of an entire country of 80 million people, to do that from 1946 to the outbreak of the war theorea, now the focus on public of the korean peninsula, an amazing achievement. would not have been possible if he did not have his father's example of how to deal with an occupied country it to build the confidence and build the modern institutions. you have to give him credit for

the way in which he was able to and in with such plum the face of intense opposition including from washington. >> what else did you find that was new? >> oral history was one. it was a lot of material that has to do with macarthur's war in korea which we have not gotten to yet. >> that his neck. [laughter] -- next. [laughter] >> comes out of soviet and chinese archives. biographynk this is a which has taken full account of the degree to which allied intentions0\ intelligence -- allied intelligence play such an important role. the degree to which led to decrypting deputies mabel and

army codes. able to provide him with the means by which to outsmart and outguess his japanese opponents on the battlefield. and to conduct the kind of bold moves he was able to do. his first it come cut the biographers do not know about any of this. it were unaware of the degree to which alter provided this vital information. his other biographer for whom i have a lot of respect talks about it but this is about graffiti -- a biography that insight that new some who understand the importance of intelligence. we live in washington dc. senior fellow at the hudson institution. >> this book is what number? >> > this is number eight of my

books. was that the number one bestseller? >> it sold well over half a million copies worldwide at this point. it is a book which i am enormously proud and one which was a good one to start on the direction. >> when you're writing a book like this, when was the last basement writing this book? last day you spent writing this book? nine months ago? >> in the process of adjustments and adding materials. i have moved on to the next book. the new book which i will be doing with harpercollins who

my history of the british navy building the global is on, the new book woodrow wilson, vladimir lenin in the year that shook the world, 1970. why that year, in the midst of -- 1917. why the year, in the midst of world war i, woodrow wilson entered world war i and lenin to topple the provisional government that had taken over in st. petersburg after the csar,tion of those are -- how those two events have ricocheted and shaped the modern history. that is the next book. moving to the next war, the suit video that a lot of people have already

seen. it is harry truman relieving macarthur of his duties. you can explain how that happened when we come back. long and hardght about this question about extending the war in asia. i have discussed it many times. i believe with all my heart that the course we are following is the best course. a number of events have made it evident that john macarthur did not agree with the policy. i have therefore considered it a essential to relieve general macarthur so that there would be no doubt or confusion as to the purpose of our policy. it is of the deepest personal regret that i found myself compelled to take this action. general macarthur is one of our greatest military commanders, but the cause of world peace is much more important than any individual. >> what happened? momentsis one of those

when you begin to realize that the clash of personalities is as important as the clash of ideologies and collation of events or convergence of social and economic forces. the fact of the matter is neither douglas macarthur could ofvelop a strongest light truman. when was president and the other one was given the power as forces commander of u.s. after north korea invaded south korea. believed the way in which to end this conflict as he began the process of pushing back up the peninsula after chinese intervention in november of 1950, as he began the process of pushing back up, proliferating south korea again

-- relive rating south korea again after the first liberation 1950, that is the hismark of the highlight of military, landing on the korean peninsula that shattered north korea's ability to conduct in a war. the braiding soul and pyongyang. andiberating seol pyongyang. they push the chinese back. approach the 30th parallel. macarthur's plan was that you could end the war with a victory. we would defeat not just north korea, but the chinese or forces.-- we have to take the necessary steps including strategic warming and perhaps nuclear weapons.

make it so the chinese cannot resupply their armies in north korea. as the famous statement, there is no substitute for victory. the truman administration disagreed and thought there was a substitute, a stalemate. return u.n. forces to the 30th parallel. free south korea from communist domination but allowing north korea and the chinese to remain in place north of the border, or boundary line. the 30th parallel. 38 parallel. macarthur was outspoken about why he felt this kind of approach would be a mistake. why he felt his hand had been tied by the truman administration in terms of dealing with and lashing out at the chinese. with is what macarthur desperate he sounds off. yet done all his career. truman, this became a moment

in which he had to decide whether he was going to be able to continue and have someone who would embrace stalemate strategy as opposed to a victorious strategy and to keep his mouth shut at the same time. >> did he answer to the president or joint chiefs? >> all of macarthur's moves and korea for which he later faces intense criticism, including his push up the river through north korea, the fact is the joint chiefs had approved and more the actions he had taken. from the military point of view, it seemed unimpeachable the approach and strategy. from the political standpoint, there was a feeling that the push for war, the fallout war my do things.

it would force the european allies to drop out because they would not be interested in doing that. they did not want to see a war that would be continuing up beyond the 38 parallel and would engage china more extensively. but it also might trigger a response from the russians and josef stalin who might see his chinese ally on the part of collapse might launch an offensive in europe. there were soviet forces deployed on the border of germany. >>, richard from the fourt -- troops are on the 38 parallel now? >> 20,000. not a peace treaty, just an armistice. macarthur dismissed these ideas. he believed china could be defeated. as a point out, there make a --

maybe good reason he could have done that and he believes stalin would not intervene. we know now that that is also true. we found that out to the soviet archives. stalin thought this entire fromtion had been botched the beginning. he was given a guarantee by the that ifrean dictator north korea invaded with chinese help, the americans would intervene. from that point on stolen was like, this is your problem, not mine. truman had to make a call. did he do the right thing? necessary?e -- probably it was. was it the right policy? history would have to have a

different dutch meant. -- judgment. history is adopted by necessary blunders. the acceptance of the final stalemate might fit into that. thee have now been through first world war, the second world war, the japan express, himkorean war, we saw address the republican national convention. i would to go to the chapter that brings a lot of him together in one chapter. it is called saving fdr. >> that is an interesting chapter. >> i want to read what you wrote and have you explain it. this is during the fdr years and macarthur is in the oval office talking to fdr. roosevelt's own assessment was more nuanced despite.

what does that tell us about the relationship between general macarthur and fdr? >> a little bit of background. this is at a point in which that was macarthur holds the highest post in the united states army. through at gone debacle called the bonus army march. the public-relations disaster for the hoover administration in which army troops were used to veteransd war

including many who had served with macarthur. they demanded bonuses that were promised to the government pensions. government pensions. they set up tent city and refuse theo when ordered when bonus was voted down. the police were unable to control the crowds. they asked for support from the u.s. army and macarthur as chief supervisehowed up to the operation and it was ugly. it was an ugly series of riots. people were killed. big propaganda campaign was launched by the coming of supporters from the bonus march to paint that was macarthur -- douglas macarthur as this

fascist killer of innocent men and women. the question had come up about president, becomes it probably doomed hoover's reelection in 1932. the greateat -- depression did not take his chances, the bonus army debacle did. everybody assumed he would be fired, that macarthur was out. he is a conservative republican. fdr is a liberal democrat. no-brainer. fact, roosevelt was smart and realized that macarthur was somebody who despite these characteristics of his, this tremendous egotism, the sense of , this would be a man who would be useful for roosevelt to have as part of his

team and could be a support to the administration. douglas macarthur realized that as well. one of the things i described in that chapter is the interesting cooperation between those two men that began to arise after roosevelt became president. surprised, they become partners and rebuild the u.s. army and help to rebuild the economy. i will read you this again for the background.

then later, fdr says you must not talk that way to the president of the united states. >> that is about budget cuts to the u.s. army. first of all by hoover, not roosevelt. had takene serious -- a serious acts to funding axe to funding-- appropriations. roosevelt comes in with further cuts. the theme you are describing unfolding is roosevelt, the secretary of war and macarthur fighting it out over the implications of these budget

cuts. with the u.s.d army be if these budget cuts for put into place? where did they come from, the quotes? >> a of that comes from his own account. >> i just vomited on the steps of the white house. >> this is very interesting. memorize -- memoirs he writes just before his death. for the first time for many people exposing that aspect of what you are talking about at the beginning, the insecurities, that sense of self doubt, that feeling of being overwhelmed at certain moments of crisis. this was an example of that kind of thing. this is macarthur realizing that what he has just done could end feelinger, but also a

that this is a situation in which, although he had to speak out, he had to take a strong position, this was one which was not a position of strength that was in fact a position of weakness. there is no doubt that macarthur knows what he said was wrong. he knows that he should not have confronted the president and i and i kind of way. and the scene on the steps -- and that kind of way -- in that kind of way. >> there are other things in this chapter. one is isabel. the mother, the fact that there is a major eisenhower. it is hard to put together at this stage. a -- aid toas in

douglas macarthur and went out to be president. is talk about isabel. -- let's talk about isabel. the simple fact of life, even in world war ii when he become supreme commander, there is no else to choose from. he is the one person who has had i been come after the baton campaign, had actual committees. fighting the japanese is just about the only officer who has seen military combat in world war i. that is important to keep in mind and why he is able to speak with this kind of command. beenbody else has latecomers to the army career. dimples.,

>> and actress from the philippines who he had met. >> there she is looking charming. tempt the attention from an rv -- army officer recently divorced. her mistress, he is invisibly monogamous. divorce that his he strikes up with isabel. her nickname was imposed. dimples. even the jews it couple decades younger, they have a very close relationship. was 16.er when she may december romance and he is so taken with her that he arranges for her to

come to the united states while --se army chief of staff they have an apartment over on 16th street. i do not know at that time that it was a historical landmark. cooper.dimples andas romantic text first soon fell apart as he became realized that she was someone who, however attractive and alluring, she was much too young and inexperienced and shallow for him. she goes off to hollywood and try to get involved in all kinds of problems come after. >> i'm watching the clock and it nowes me clarity -- crazy, what happens?

>> she is bitter about this. the first wife. wealthy and vivacious. the marriage have fallen apart. disillusionment. she was happy to spread all kinds of nasty gossip about him and his sexual prowess or lack thereof as a husband. handeal issue that was at , macarthurhether brought a libel suit, about isabel cooper and they came out and in all the way. coppa stated story -- complicated store. they were to spring on him in court the letters that isabel had written in exchange back and forth.

in the end, they arranged for settlement and he arranged for those letters to be buried in the and archives -- archives. i was able to get the archives at the university of texas library. they are quite something. ,o say that douglas macarthur read those letters and the letters he wrote to the first that not he had to say only was douglas mccarthy a great military commander in not only was he a great statesman as we see, he's also a master of erotic prose in ways that are quite striking. >> chairman of the subcommittee that that with were back then and he got involved. he did not like him. >> they had enormous complex money should be

appropriated and the support for each branch of the military. ways forsson in many getting military force facing tight budgets is that you keep the appropriations spread equally across the different services and divisions. collins had a fixation on mechanized warfare and put the money should be put into that. >> bad feelings. he was going to leak the affair. and thening to leak it they would publish it. how did this end up? >> washington sure has changed. [laughter] clip. last some more what general macarthur was saying at the republican '52.ntion anin

>> people desperate for a plan that would revise hope and restore faith as a kid that oppressive burden of the tax levy on every source of revenue and property transaction. as they see that astronomically rising public debt mortgaging the industry, the well-being, the opportunity of our children and our children's children, there is no plan to transform they extravagance into frugality, no desire to regain economic and fiscal facility, a prospect of return to the rugged ideals and collective can quality from our fathers. >> that was only 64 years ago. >> wasn't that something? ways incredibly

depression speech. issue of debt, public spending, how that becomes a way in which you mortgage a country's future. an issue that has been hanging over us the last couple of decades if not longer. me if he hadsked one the nomination, and won the election, what president would he be like. i think he would be like eisenhower. a lot of policies that eisenhower pursued would have appealed to mccarthy. he did believe the federal government had a strong role to play in things like infrastructure. interstate highway systems. he was also somebody who foresaw that the growth of the welfare state would be something that politicians and congress and even the federal government might not be able to control. it could be a runaway train. i think that is one of the things about macarthur that you had to say that he saw the

future more clearly often than he saw the present but there was america's role in asia, the rise of china, this split between china and the soviet union which he foresaw, but also the fate of american domestic politics. >> i can hear the historians and veterans of world war ii screaming that we do not get to anything on the work, but this is a 927 page book. arthur herman has been our guest. the book is called douglas macarthur, american warrior. our author has been a finalist for the pulitzer prize. we thank you very much. >> thank you.

>> for free transcripts, visit us at q&a.org. if you like this interview with historian arthur human been here are some others you might enjoy. antony beevor. find this program and more online at c-span.org. >> c-span's washington journal

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