conventions to follow the summer. >> colorado, florida, texas, ohio. delegates-span as the consider the nomination of the first woman ever has had a major political party and the first non-politician and several decades. watch live on c-span. listen on the c-span radio app orchid video-on-demand. you have a front row seat of every minute of the conventions. all beginning on monday, july 18. our next guest this morning is from cincinnati. he is ken blackwell, senior fellow of the family research council and former elected official in the state of ohio, mayor of cincinnati and treasurer and secretary of state for ohio. good morning. guest: good morning. good to be with you. host: thank you for joining us. the reason we ask you to come on

is that you and others attended a meeting with donald trump in new york. a meeting with christian leaders. tell us about the meeting. but was the goal? how many people were there and what was it like? a series ofs meetings, some small, one large of about 1000 social and christian conservatives. it was a conversation with donald trump. one in a larger group, and others in a series of small conversations, where folks were sort of taking his measure. this was not a meeting or series of meetings for the objective of endorsing donald trump, nor was it an inquisition. filled, ait was conversation basically trying to provide an opportunity for social and christian conservatives, leaders in their

own right to take the measure and see if they could get comfortable with the candidacy. there were those who had already the meetings,of but the large majority were undecided, and this was the opportunity for them to interact and take as much. that one of the themes was religious liberty. what did mr. trump say about that particular topic and what does it mean to you? guest: let me give you context. aristotle, folks have been concerned about the organized power of the state and the tension with individual liberties, and within the context of religious liberty and the american context, religious liberty is one of the most important fundamental human

rights that we exercise in this country because it is not only worshipingving are in a church, it is about how we can live our lives in the public with ournsistent seeefs, so folks wanted to if he was up to the measure of putting the harness on the organized power of the state, which we have done for over 240 years in constitutional governance. the constitution is harness on the intrusion and concentrated power of government, so we wanted to take his measure. casey constitutionalist -- is he a constitutionalist? does he believe? in the limits of the constitution places on government

does he believe in the separation of powers -- does he believe in the limits of the constitution places on government? does he believe in the separation of powers? i think that was answered because he had preempted that question by announcing his list of prospective candidates, so people wanted to take a look there. they wanted to see if in fact he was ready to defend the practice of religion in the public square , but most of the folks there were christians, so they wanted to see if they would put me halt to an assault on the little sisters of the poor or on christians who were small business owners who want to have their business is guided by the fundamental beliefs, so for me, going back to your question, religious liberty is one's

ability to live their faith in the public square without the fear of the heavy hand of government. i happen to believe that religious liberty is an expression of the human conscious, and as a former u.s. ambassador to the united nations in charge of the human rights forfolio and apathy fundamental rights like religious liberty, i was there to see if i can get comfortable with donald trump's position on religious liberty of the constitution and restraint on the power of government in particular. host: let me put the phone numbers on the bottom of the screen. just two numbers, one for evangelical voters, (202)-748-8000. everyone else, your number is (202)-748-8001. we get to calls in a moment for

ken blackwell. just continuing this laminate, -- continuing for a minute, did you get comfortable with what you heard from donald trump? i will point out that in may, you wrote a piece urging a slow walking embarq embrace or your embrace of mr. trump. but did you take away from this? comfortable more with donald trump and his position on the constitution, his position on restraints on judicial activism, and i was taken by the fact that he never pretended to be an evangelical himself, but he did profess belief in the bible and most importantly, he was ready to our rights to exercise

our legislative or the in the public square. i am from the old school. i will defend everyone's just sotional right long as their exercise of their religious liberty doesn't pose a violence ort of restraint on the practice of religion by others. i wanted to be very comfortable with his concern about islamic jihadists and make sure that strokesn't a broad against muslims in general because you cannot profess to be for religious liberty but then be against, in general, the practice of islam, judaism or hinduism, so i can away watching how he had started to calibrate his concern about religious

liberty as it applied to his concern to protect the national security of the country and the safety of americans in their home in neighborhoods. host: calls in the moment for ken blackwell. does this mean you and organization are endorsing donald trump at this point and who did you go for the primaries? independent in the primaries. i was an advocate and a principal advisor to an organization called our principals, who was in fact looking at all the candidates against fundamental principles religiousutionalism, liberty and limited government, so that was my job to at least put up the screen for folks to judge the candidates in the primaries. how close areor

you to an endorsement of donald trump at this point? clear let me just be very , elections are about choices. isnow that hillary clinton running on a third term of barack obama. that means she is running on increasing the debt, increasing the intrusiveness and size of the government and the welfare state in general. she is running against the interest of people who are actually wanting all of the freedoms of the constitution, including the second amendment, that given those choices, donald trump, hillary ,linton, i will go with trump but that is not enough and i am sure we will get into it on the balance of our conversation. to be engaged

with him enough to go out and convince 10 more folks to vote for donald trump, and that is what i am trying to get comfortable with right now. there is no question who i am going to vote for if given the choice of trump versus clinton. he is my default candidate in november. i do not want him to be just a default candidate. i want him to be candidate that i can enthusiastically go out and work for and convince other voters to vote for. he cannot afford to have the same number of evangelical 2016. stay home in host: first call from al in cambridge, ohio, you are on the phone with ken blackwell. hower: i just wondered christians would feel regarding

this political [indiscernible] you have on your show today. this man has been in and out the revolving door and republican ohio,s from beginning in and his significant role in guiding the reelection of george w. bush, arguably the worst and most corrupt administration in the history of this country, and plunged this country into the fascist state that we see today -- host: let me jump in. we have heard that, but talk about the evangelical voters and donald trump. any thoughts there? caller: how would christian voters feel about a political hack such as what you have on here, that i have described in

detail? host: let's hear from ken blackwell and give him a chance to defend himself. guest: good morning, al. i do not defend myself against the ridiculous accusations. that we just give your viewers some understanding. i grew up right here in cincinnati, grew up in public housing in the early part of my childhood. andad was a world war ii there was a housing shortage when he came back and we moved into market housing, was educated here in public schools, and then went on to the university, where not only did i and academicessor -- excuse me, administrator of the vice president level, but i served on the board of trustees at xavier and as a consequence, grew up being an advocate for

changing the cycle of poverty that 70 people were locked into. being a strong advocate for life, got elected to sydney council, became mayor of the city, and then was elected treasurer and secretary of state . in between those, i was a secretary with my buddy jack kemp and i was a u.s. ambassador to the united nations, as i mentioned before, the human rights commission. look, and all of my collections, people understood that i was an elected official running with a party affiliation, and i was not i was theublican, conservative republican and became the first african-american elected to a statewide office in the history of ohio. as a consequence of that, i in

fact was true to my principles, true to my party and i was successful. race foro in the 2006, but i have stayed engaged in the political process working with public policy groups like the family research council, and i stand in the public square as a defender of religious liberty, small government, and free enterprise. i served on the boards of the national rifle association and the club for growth and the national taxpayers association, and in honor of my father, i am proud to be a member of the board of trustees of the world war ii museum in new orleans, so have always had political opposition, people who

disagree with me politically, religiously and so on, but that is what america is all about, the enable to compete, win, lose , get up, dust yourself off and win again. folks barkingd to being concerned, -- myis is what i know dad used to tell me, dogs did not bark at parked cars, so you stay on the move and do what you can with what you have and where you are. bill onr next caller is the line for evangelicals in ohio. good morning. caller: good morning, gentlemen. to blackwell, i am afraid say this, but what you are doing is sickening. you are trying to get religious people like myself to abandon

their morals, abandoned their values, abandon god and vote for a guy like donald trump. the guy that i see making fun of a disabled person. he says he cannot get a fair trial because his judges mexican. that is sickening. i will not put the republican party ahead of my morals and values and that is what i need to say. host: let me add to that the voice of shawn king from "the new york post" who writes "to see these men and women who claim to be ambassadors for the trump.sed clearlyrabbi's do not represent morals or decency. donald trump is the antitheses of all of those things." what is your reaction to that quote and the call? guest: that is fascinating.

like i said to you earlier, it is about choices. let's talk about our choices. we had donald trump, who is not the perfect candidate, who we are basically slow walk in, but we have another choice and that is hillary clinton, who we do know a lot about. we know that she is in support of abortion on demand. we know that she is trying to trample on the religious liberty of those a bus to practice christianity in our life. we in fact know that this is a gross that has shown incompetence when it comes to protecting the national security of our country. here is a woman who in fact once america to become a nation without borders, and as a consequence, we now find an

america that is at risk. we see a woman who wants to expand the welfare state as opposed to creating a growing where we are producing jobs, giving people a way to get off of dependency of government, so i have to make a choice. i know it hillary clinton is. i know what she professes that she wants to do. she once to be that their term of barack obama, where we now have one of the lowest labor participation rates in our recent history. we see that our debt is $19 trillion and growing, and one of the things that we know about that is that when government continues to get a good and take her and the welfare state close, we chase capital and opportunity

out of the country. that is what we have $2 trillion of capital sitting on the fence because those owners of those dollars to not want to have them unfairly taxed, so they will take them someplace else where it is a better tax plan. as a consequence, we are seeing anemic economic growth and as a consequence, more and more americans are falling out of the workplace. look, give me a break. .e is not a perfect candidate i am slow walking might embrace of him, being very critical, inspecting every aspect of what he stands for, but i know it hillary clinton stands for. in fact, that is more antithetical to the interest of bible believing christians, who want to practice their faith in the public square. he is a default candidate. i would like to meet to be able

to be enthusiastically supportive of him because of what he is for and what he is demonstrating he is for, but i have no question about whether or not he is a better choice for the future of america than hillary clinton. host: let's get to another called. forink that graphic was "the new york post [indiscernible] from chicago, how are you doing? caller: can you give me a couple of seconds? i listen to mr. blackwell said he know what hillary clinton is about, but donald trump tell you every day what he is about. he says he once to destroy isil and if he cannot get to the men leading isil, he wants to go to their children, kids and wives. you talk about evangelical, but if you go to that rivaled, it's -- go to that bible, it says thou shall not kill. muslims have arrived to believe

that faith they believe in, just like christians have a right, but to a parallel between the two. use a muslims chop off people's heads, gouge their eyes out, kill them. let's go back. probably some of your people have run up on these atrocities. back in america, christians, not muslims, in the 1960's, quite christians on the way to church throw bombs at black people's houses because they were black. if they did not buy -- if they did not die from the bombs, they shot them coming out the front door. thinking black men from trees, skinning them, laughing about it, standing on the trees. are barbaric for doing that, what do you call christians? simply with is not the bible because he said corinthians. how can he be so christian but they get on tv and talk about different people?

host: thank you for calling. we went to get ken blackwell's reaction. questionsk, no one the history of america. lincoln said, we are not a perfect nation, but we are a professed abomination. we went from those periods she described to electing the first african-american president. in many -- in many countries, that would not be possible because of hardened prejudices and ideologies. , i startedof the day out by saying, i have no reservation about defending somebody's constitutional rights to be theologically in disagreement with me or theologically wrong, so that is where i am. notve in fact worked with

only donald trump, but with other republican candidates, to make sure that they zero in on what is a direct threat, and islamic jihadists, islamic terrorists are a direct threat. if you are not able to say that, there's no way you will be able to come there. mr. blackwell, let's take another caller from michelle in wisconsin. good morning. morning.ood i am calling because i am having a hard time understanding why the republican party and the in village eligible voters -- republican party and the evangelical voters have a hard time keeping church and state separate? i have my religious police and idle push them off on anybody else. yet, republicans who are

evangelicals who want the evangelical voters, they tend to cater to them without reservation for other people's religious believes. attack. planned parenthood, i did not have insurance at the time, this with years ago. women cares,re for and they were the ones that fell my cervical cancer. it was already at stage four. i had just treatment and everything that they helped me through and they were very supportive. host: and what is your question? why themy question is evangelicals believe their religious beliefs be upheld over everybody else's. i have my religious beliefs, and

yet, my religious police get trampled on. host: thank you very much. callerguest: i will say for thed time that i will defend everyone 's constitutional right, even if they are wrong. remember the american experience of those who would just come here from england where the state and church were one. a notion that you separate and state and you elevate religious freedom, that means that families can practice their religion in the public square in the place of business. when that sort of practice of faith becomes under direct attack by activist courts at all levels, i think organizations

like the family research council , are important as being those who will shine their light in the dark corners of the sort of thing. parenthood and the services that this woman god, i ate -- the services that this woman got, -- when you have an organization that has been demonstrated to sell baby parts, that is a practice that needs to be condemned, and in fact, we need to make sure there is no public dollars, incredible dollars we need to make sure there are no public dollars going to that organization. we need to make sure taxpayer dollars are not used to harvest baby parts and kill babies. int: let's hear from andy

north carolina. caller: i want to make a couple anpoints if i could about article about trump versus cruz. mr. blackwell, i wonder if you saw the article toddled -- article titled "evangelical christians are selling out." talking about how evil evangelical christians are. i am glad you read that. i would like you to respond. it makes a lot of good points that they have this cynical subordination of faith and politics. how eager they are to be exploited. he talks about them being on the wrong side of history in the civil rights era and how they are doing it again today. it is not about putting christ

back into christmas, it is about putting christ back into christian. there is a whole lot to that. there is a whole life christians need to look at. trump,o the cruz versus there is a lot to that. trump is basically just an bigot, and it shows with the evangelical christian's values are. they did not hold any deeply held religion. they went with the candidate that least represents christianity, including hillary. and how he could be your default choice, i do not understand. he is the least christian of all the candidates. maybe he might show a pandering

attempt to defend christianity, which he has nothing to do with. principleyour overall of protecting all religious liberties, clearly he is not prepared to do that. host: thanks for calling. . we understand the point -- we understand the point. let me talk about this headline from a recent poll that says donald trump is not generating zeal. do you sense that? do you agree with that? guest: absolutely. that is why i found the last caller's comments to be fascinating and best, and ludicrous at least. look, evangelicals are not monolithic. all of the indications are that folks who went to church regularly and labeled themselves

as evangelical, actually did vote more for ted cruz then donald trump. but elections are about choices and the people spoke through those elections. now i have to take a look at who donald trump is up against. veryichael's article is fascinating to me because is he suggesting that we go for years, clinton, for 25 has demonstrated that she is willing to wage war on the traditional family? there are those of us who believe that the traditional family is the incubator of liberty. her attacks against on life come on family, -- on life, on family, and all religious liberty.

a greats article was academic piece, but michael now has to tell me that he is going to vote for johnson, the independent, or hillary over trump. his he has to weigh conscious because we do know the measurable works of hillary clinton against those issues that are important to us as we go forward. host: do you think fundamentally donald trump is pro-life? fundamentally he has evolved into a position that is pro-life. terms of where i am in the exceptions. he has more exceptions apparently than i do. , i have to look at him against the other choice. johnsonr two choices of

and clinton, and by all measures, he becomes a logical choice for those who want to defend life. most notably because he, and fact, has put out a list of judges that would in fact defend life and get us off of this track that we are drifting towards of being more and more anti-life, and empire religious liberty. .ost: let's hear from caleb caller: good morning. mr. blackwell. vet a muslim without using a religious standard? what doesn't mean to how we should view the separation of church and state? thank you. actuallyll, look, you

process,screening which we were woefully lacking. you look a geographical areas. you look at organizational affiliations. matter, a question of, it is a question of activity and behavior and association from a particular geographical area that is known for its harvesting of jihadists terrorists, period. lenka from santa monica health area -- santa monica, california. are you there? caller: yes. in regard to color from before -- in regard to the caller from before, i feel for her.

now. am talking about because heing trump had dr. james dobson blessing --and he is a christian. we know that for sure. for the last eight years, it is been totally chaos, ok. glad thatell, i am so i was able to hear him. dr. james dobson, focus on the family founder. he is definitely a christian. trump.sed

blessing, ii's looked at that. we don't want the same things. hillary is not going to protect isis, killing, our beautiful men and talking their heads off walking on the beach, with and tied in the back --with hands tied up in the back. i can't stand it. and they are killing children and women and putting churches on fire. that is what i'm saying. donald trump is going to protect us with that situation. i am in favor also to not have them coming into our country.

i came to america when i was 18. and i have always been in love with jesus. host: lenka,, thank you for calling. we are running out of time with ken blackwell. james thompson, the founder of focus on the family. here is a little bit of dr. dobson on the screen. we were reading about donald trump's conversion in his face. what have you heard about this? is it something that you noted? what does it all mean? read the comments of dr. dobson, who was in one of the smaller meetings with donald trump. he might have been on a one-on-one session with mr. trump.

as a consequence, he has walked is abelieving that trump born-again evangelical, or christian. i haven't been able to witness that. the family research council are concerned about the advancement of public policies that strengthen the family, advance religious liberty, so we of candidatesst to make sureffs they have the right policy prescription. that they know where to advance protection of religious liberty. at the same time, that they also know how to get government out of our lives, making decisions their moms and dads should be making, as opposed to the government.

and providing us with alternative forms of education, cleansedfact, we have our children's education to any reference of faith. that is what we have concentrated on, our public policy issues and matters. and again, when you start to weigh up his prescriptions and policies versus what she has in fact been advocating for 25 years in the public square at the national level, we see a clear choice. basicallyk dr. dotson , any broader context, is saying his policy of prescriptions and the policies, that he is advancing a more consistent -- that he is advancing our more consistent of the interests of evangelical christians and lovers of liberty in general the hillary clinton. one more lesst

call from pete in california. caller: good morning. i would like to say, first of at, with trump -- you look what any independent ranking shows is that trump will be much worse on the deficit then hillary clinton. the other thing is i find it ironic the organization that mr. blackwell is with is called and most of them have family values and mr. trump does not have family values. finally, i have a question for mr. blackwell. what does hes think about donald trump questioning hillary clinton's

faith? he said she never mentioned anything about religion. it is well known shes a methodist. she says that in her biography. is religious freedom questioning someone else's faith? host: pete, you put a lot on the table. any reaction to that caller? guest: the family research council is a 501(c)(3) organization. we advance policies and that our constituents and followers judge how candidates look against the policies that we advance. now, within individuals of the are individual, political rights. in terms of hillary clinton's

, i fundamentally don't questionher faith, i whether or not her public policy pronouncement further religious ethic, ande pro-life defense of the natural and traditional family in america. on all of those fronts, i can see her positions the antithetical. so you question those public policy pronouncements. i am not here and nor should donald trump question her face. -- question her faith. host: ken blackwell has been our guest. he is in cincinnati, ohio. he was mayor of canady and

treasurer and secretary of state. he is now senior fellow at the family research council. mr. blackwell, thanks a lot for taking >> c-span washington journal live everyday with impacts -- news that impacts you. and he will be speaking with us about recent oil rain -- when altering the reverend. and with britain leaving the european union, the associate director of international security and defense policy center at the rand corporation talks about the impact of the brexit. and the program director of the natural resource offense caps on latest report stating that more than 18 million americans get the drinking water from systems that exceed national levels for

lead. being inn record as violation. be sure to watch c-span's washington journal beating like that synagogue eastern on saturday. join the discussion. watch c-span's coverage of the 2016 democratic and republican conventions and every saturday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern, we will back at -- look act at past conventions. -- back at past conventions. truman.look at harry the 1960 the credit convention in los angeles with john f. kennedy. barry goldwater at the 1964 republican convention in california. the 1976 republican convention with gerald ford. walter mondale at the 1984 democratic convention. michael dukakis in atlanta.

in the 2004 democratic convention in boston with john kerry. after publican and democratic national conventions saturday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. >> tonight on c-span, a look at the state of employment in the state of the u.s.. lorettaorney general lynch talks about the investigation into hitler clinton's e-mail service -- server and her meeting with bill clinton. after that, a group of young activists talk about racial issues they have encountered in today's education system. economist and author edward glaeser recently talked about the state of employment in the united states by looking at labor market trends and government policy. he also spoke about the impact implement was having on suicide, divorce and drug abuse.