continue to fight in the commonwealth of virginia. >> governor terry mcauliffe, thank you for being on c-span's newsmakers. what did you learn from the governor? i learned that he can turn any conversation to a discussion of what's going on in virginia, like a good governor should. he may be running for senate. but he gets to pick the replacement for tim kaine. we tried that. >> what did you hear? >> one thing that stuck out to me is how confident he sounded and he is going to sound confident and how confident he sounded about virginia and

hillary clinton's chances. he didn't think there was any chance that donald trump would run. but the way he was saying it, he was much concerned about ohio and pennsylvania. >> at the same time, the trump-pens team has said there are democratic states that are in play for us. >> and he wasn't buying that, the high-pennsylvania thing is a huge point of concern for them. what the governor has said is what you see hillary clinton's strategist say for every ohio and pennsylvania there is a north carolina and he was disciplined in pushing that message. >> you had made the comment that they are driving a bus through this area. is that significant? >> the symbolism couldn't be more clear and seen as they leave pennsylvania tomorrow, there is a rally here in

philadelphia right outside here to kick off a bus tour that will take clinton and kaine through pennsylvania and ohio and pennsylvania, for example, they are going to go to pittsburgh, the western part of the state, where the economics and the dem gaffics are very different than the eastern part of the state and support for democrats generally and clinton in particular is a lot lower. and the reason for that is the economic malaise they are trying to confront in this election which the governor mentioned that as -- is a huge factor, just getting past the idea for democrats they are almost eight years of a democratic president, there aren't more jobs and wages haven't risen isn't one of their problems and they are going to

confront. >> as a final question, you both alluded to this, but is the democratic ticket beginning from a more left-handed side position than a sentist position? >> yes. and their and not that they have to win overwhelming numbers of these independent voters. they are running against donald trump. their real concern and this is a problem in states like florida and north carolina, their real concern is make sure their core constituencys and they are turning out in enough numbers to give them those states. if that doesn't happen, they will have a real problem on their hand. >> this is going to war with what you have for the democrats, he goal being recreate the coalition. one of the reason that it was a

problem. he approached the young vote which she really needs and a good bit of it is coming back to er now but that is the goal. this is ""newsmakers" from philadelphia. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] > tonight, jourmist and author joshua discusses "first dads. >> looking at fattering is trying to complexity of human beings and fathering is to weigh in and we think this is a bad guy or good guy. but to see a lot of these men who have been president had different parts and compartmentalized and they could be laudible and do amazing

things and they could be disappointing. >> tonight on c-span. now democratic presidential capped hillary clinton and vice presidential candidate tim kaine speak at a campaign rally in columbus, ohio, this is about 40 minutes.

[applause]

mr. kaine: i know we have the mayor and congressman strickland will be a fantastic senator. give them a round of applause. [applause] mr. kaine: i really mean that, what we said about philadelphia. we felt the hospitality there was great, that the spirit of our democratic family was great, and it was such a contrast with the kind of dark, twisted vision that donald trump said is america, but really it is just a tour through his head, and folks, that is a scary place to be, a scary place to be. but we have had a great three-day bus tour. we get on the ticket, did the convention, hop on the bus tour through pennsylvania and ohio talking about job creation, talking about hillary clinton's plans and what we will do in her dministration.

this is the last stop on the tour, and it is great to finish strong and columbus. [applause] mr. kaine: i want to introduce you to my wife, who is my wife of 32 years. we are proud parents of three. she was secretary of education in virginia until last monday, after i was asked by secretary clinton to be her running mate and walked in and said, i want to campaign full-time to this ticket and she stepped out from her position, and having her on the road with me makes me a very happy warrior. she is a great public servant. nd then we also have the great benefit up until the event this morning of having another travel buddy, president bill clinton. now that is pretty cool. that is pretty cool. i said yesterday that i have been in politics for 22 years, mr. mayor, city council member and mayor before i was a

governor and senator, started at the local level. i thought i knew something about politics after 22 years, but spending about 15 minutes on a bus with bill clinton, you realize, man, there is a guy that knows some things about politics. it was really exciting for me that i could be on this tour. thank you. thank you. [applause] mr. kaine: but i will also say, i am just so proud to be on this ticket. i am proud hillary clinton, out of the number of spectacular people that could have been her running mate asked, 10, would you do this with me? i am so humbled about it, excited to work with somebody that president obama said has got to be the best qualified person to be a nominee for president of the united states in a very long time. [applause] mr. kaine: i am proud and we are having fun, but i will go one

more reason i am excited about this. one more reason. there are a couple things about the race and our opponent and then i will introduce hillary clinton. this is a historic election. this is a historic omination. i was standing, i was standing on the podium thursday night after hillary did her acceptance speech in the balloons started falling. my 81-year-old mother and my wife were standing there with me. my mom, kathy, put her arm on my shoulders and said, "this is the happiest moment of my life. there was a lot of reasons, a lot of reasons she was saying that, but i will to you one of the reasons, we were making history not just by nominating the best qualified major party nominee in a very long time, if ever, but we were also nominating the first woman to be president ever. [applause]

mr. kaine: here is what i thought of. here is what i thought of. how many strong women have helped me in 22 years in politics, been campaign managers for me, campaign staffers, volunteers, member of my cabinet, supporting me so i could have a great political areer. my wife supporting me so i could have a great political career just like i supported her in her public service career, but if you look at that whole arch of american history, how many strong women have stood behind strong men leaders? i think it is time for the men to stand up and support a strong woman president of this country, of this country. [applause]

mr. kaine: now -- [chanting hillary] mr. kaine: can i be honest i just tell you the one bad thing about this week? i have to be honest. before i was on the ticket, donald trump did not have any reason to call me a name. when i got on the ticket, he had to figure out how to call me a name. the morning after i became the nominee, he did a press conference and he took a mic and he said, "tim kaine was a really lousy governor of new jersey. [laughter] mr. kaine: i am a sensitive guy. i do not like criticism, so i kind of felt bad until i realized, wait, i was never governor of new jersey. i have never even lived in new jersey. look, give donald a break. he is new to this. [laughter] mr. kaine: the basic civics, there are 50 states.

i am sure that is in the briefing book, a few pages later. he is not there yet. look, we are on this tour and we having fun but it is about something really serious, about the american economy and how to grow it because hillary clinton and donald trump have very different plans. i like to make things simple, so i am going to make it simple. would you rather have a "you are fire president" or a "you are hired president? [applause] mr. kaine: i thought so. i predict this. after donald trump loses this race and after everybody has forgotten virtually everything about his candidacy, the one thing people will remember about donald trump is two words, "you re fired. hillary will be a "you are hired president. she will talk about what we have been talking about in learning bout on the trail.

the american economy was in a freefall at the end of the bush administration and president obama has pulled it out and we are climbing again but we have a long way to go, a long way to go because we need to grow jobs and make sure that the growth is not just for a few, but that the growth is shared by all, and so to do that, hillary has a very dynamic plan about how to grow our economy and grow it trong. it involves skills training, involves major investment in advanced manufacturing, infrastructure, debt-free college so that people can get the skills they need to be successful. [applause] mr. kaine: it involves, you know, things that should be just basic like raising the federal minimum wage so you cannot work full-time and be below the poverty level. it also means making sure that women are entitled to equal pay for equal work. [applause] mr. kaine: now, these are the basics of the hillary clinton, you are hired plan. guess what? he is respectful enough of

ya'll -- wait, do you use that in columbus -- she is respectful enough to share the details. you go on hillary clinton.com, one click of the mouse and you can see how she will do it, how she will pay for it and how you

will benefit. she said this the other night at the convention and i liked this line. she said, i am going to give you the details. some people criticize the details. i do not want to know about the details, but here is what she said, as it is about your kid, your family, if it is about your business, it is not a detail, it is a big deal. it is a big deal. she is going to share the plan. go over to the other side of the aisle. donald trump, no plans, folks. no plans. he spoke for 75 minutes of the convention criticizing hillary clinton and made a lot of big, broad claims without any substance behind them. in effect, if you ask donald a question, he will say he is going to create jobs or we are all going to get rich or beat isis or make a wall and make mexico pay for it. asked him, how are you going to do any of those things and he says, believe me. elieve me. huh, believe me. believe me. but here's the problem -- business people have believed it donald trump and gotten stiffed, got hurt, gotten burnt. there are a lot of stories that contractors -- hillary clinton and i both group and families ran by small businesses. we're used to businesses. whole lot of small businesses

have done deals with donald trump to help them build golf courses, casinos. they'll get stiffed after the job was done. donald and his phalanx of lawyers say we will run you into he ground. even if you win, you'll pay so much of feasible not be worth anything. they got hurt and many of them lost their businesses because they believed donald trump. retirees in florida, hundreds of them gave trump money to build condos and it never got the condos. and they never got the money. they got burned and lost art of the savings because they believed donald trump. columbus is a big town for students, right?

[applause] sen. kaine: young people who wanted to advance, donald trump said give me a bunch of dough and be part of my trump university and i guarantee you will have success in your life. and they ended up with a certificate that was not even worth the paper it was written on. they get ripped off come all because they believed donald trump. so now, he is just saying i will do all these things, believe me. but we are too great a nation to believe a guy who has ripped off virtually everybody he is come into contact with. we cannot put a nation as great as the united states in the hands of an empty-promising, self-promoting one-man wrecking crew. we cannot do it. [applause]

sen. kaine: i want to ask you a question and i hope you'll ask everyone this question, and that is this -- when donald trump says believe me, does anybody here even come close to elieving this guy? i mean, do you believe even one word of what he says? that is my attitude -- not one ord. not one word, folks. not one word. we have to convince others they should not be so gullible to fall for trump's no details promises either. now does my great pleasure. we had fun these couple of days. i hope you all keep us and your thoughts and encouragement in prayer. it is 100 days until election day. anne and i get the virtue of joining with 105 days left, this is been an 18 month, multi-year

effort on hillary clinton's side. it will be tough in challenging but nothing important in life is meant to be easy. democrats know tough, and ohioans know tough. let me introduce you to a tough leader, a compassionate leader, and the next president of the united states, my friend, hillary clinton. [applause] sec. clinton: hello columbus! [applause] sec. clinton: i am so happy to be here on this absolutely glorious, beautiful all mile afternoon. -- ohio afternoon. and i'm so glad to be making this journey with senator tim kaine and and holden -- ann

holden because they understand what public service is all about. they are committed to doing everything they can. and tim has, starting on city council, lieutenant governor and ow senator, to give people the best chance they can to get ahead and stay ahead. please join me again and thanking senator tim kaine. [applause] sec. clinton: and mayor, we are happy to be here in your beautiful capital city here in columbus. and i don't know how you felt, but boy, i thought your congresswoman really knocked it out of the park at the onvention. i have not even had time to tell joyce this, but it think it might have been on the very

first night. he was sitting in the box with my husband, sitting right next to him. all of a sudden twitter was going crazy. who is that beautiful, well-dressed elegant woman sitting next to bill clinton? and finally somebody said, that is the congresswoman from ohio. and i was so proud to have her support. now, there's somebody else with us. somebody very special to us. somebody special to ohio. your former governor, ted strickland. [applause] sec. clinton: i have at the great privilege of knowing ted for decades. i have seen how hard he has worked. he got dealt a bad hand being governor during the republican generated great recession and doing everything he could to try to help ohioans get through hat.

now he is running to represent you in the senate. i think your other great senator, sherrod brown, deserves a partner. [applause] sec. clinton: every time sherrod stands up and fight for you, he needs a partner to do the same and not have his vote canceled out. so, do everything you can to send ted strickland to the senate in november. [applause] sec. clinton: tim is right, we have had a great time. how many of you watched the convention? [applause]

sec. clinton: i was so proud to see democrats standing up and speaking about what we can do together to make sure the economy works for everyone, not just those at the top. taking on the special interests that have benefited from a system that is rate in their favor. so -- that is rigged in their favor. i was thrilled to get on that bus in philadelphia and had out across pennsylvania and into ohio. and along the way, we stopped at factories where hard-working americans are still making things. we stopped at a factory in johnstown, pennsylvania where business and management works

with the steelworkers of their represented by their union, fighting hard to have more good obs. they told me how they are bringing jobs back from china, how they are creating more opportunity. that is the american story that we are going to be telling during this campaign, during the last 100 days. have specific plans about how we are going to get the economy working again for everybody. e're going to make the biggest investment in new jobs since world war ii and put millions of americans to work. [applause] sec. clinton: and here is how we're going to do it -- we're going to invest in infrastructure. our roads, tunnels, airports, water systems. but not just what you can

hysically see, we need a new electric great to be able to take and distribute all the clean, renewable energy we are going to be producing. [applause] sec. clinton: and we need to finish the job of connecting every home and business in america to high-speed broadband internet access. [applause] sec. clinton: i talk a lot about building our economy, getting jobs for everyone. well, it is a little heartbreaking to learn, as i did when i was talking to some teachers a few days ago -- and i love teachers. [applause] sec. clinton: and the teachers told me they had just had a national survey done and learned that 70% of the teachers in america assigned homework to the

students that require kids to go on the internet. that makes sense, we are living in the information age, we want more people, particularly young people come up to help create that future so we have even more opportunities. but here's the problem -- 5 million kids in america do not have access at home to high-speed internet. already they are being left behind. so, we have to build america's competition, build america's opportunities, and the plans we have laid out will do just hat.

i also believe we need to do more for small business. 98% of the businesses in ohio are small businesses. [applause] sec. clinton: let's have greater access to credit. let's be sure we cut through and eliminate any of the red tape and any other obstacles. you ard tim say his dad ran a small business, so did mine. my father ran it print plant -- a print plant. i was there helping him, but i know how hard he worked. and i am personally sickened when i hear the stories about donald trump refusing to pay plumbers and painters and marble installers and glass installers, and small businesses who have done the work. i think about my dad, he worked hard -- what would have happened if the customers he had, after he printed those drapery fabrics, made them into drapes, loaded them into his car, delivered them, helped install them, and somebody like donald trump said we are not paying you.

my dad would have said, what do you mean? i did when i was contracted to do. but the person after person and business after business, donald trump said, i do not care. it is not because he could not pay, he would not pay them. he drove a businesses into bankruptcy. in addition to taking bankruptcy himself, six times. my friends, that is not how we do business in america. if you do the work, you deserve the pay. and we are going to stand up and make that case against donald trump. the other thing about trump -- you heard him, he says america first. as if we would not put america first. that is sure what i believe. he says it, but then everything he makes, he makes somewhere else. he makes dress shirts and china, not brooklyn, new york. he makes furniture in turkey, not cleveland, ohio. he makes barware in slovenia, not jackson, ohio. and he goes around saying he wants to put america first and

america workers first. ust today we learned, once again, he has asked for visas to employ foreign workers at his country clubs because he says he cannot find any american workers. shame on you, donald trump. shame on you.

let's cut through all of the hype and the rhetoric and understand we're dealing with somebody who has a history of stiffing people, making things somewhere else besides america, and whenever possible, hiring foreign workers. i do not think that adds up in any way to making america great again. i think as up to making donald trump more money. that is what it is all about. -- i think it adds up to making donald trump more money. we're going to make the economy airer. we're going to raise the minimum wage so that nobody works full-time will be in poverty. [applause]

sec. clinton: and you have heard it before but i will say it again -- the fastest way to aise income in america is to pay women equal pay for the work we do. [applause] sec. clinton: this is not just a woman's issue, this is a family issue. if you have got a working mother, wife, sister or aughter, it is your issue. and we are going to enforce the laws and finally make it absolutely clear -- no more discrimination against women who work in the workplace. [applause] sec. clinton: i know we are up against some powerful forces. here is what i want you to know as you talk to your friends, your neighbors about this election.

everything i have proposed -- and you can go to hillary clinton.com and read about it -- i have told you how i will pay for. how will i pay for? -- for it? by making the wealthy corporations and wall street finally pay their fair share of taxes. [applause] sec. clinton: somebody asked me, well, why are you doing that? ou resent success?

no, i do not resent success. i do resent people taking advantage of other people to try to become successful. but the reason we are going to get the wealthy to pay is that is where the money is. they have earned 90% of all of the income gained since the recession. that is the top 1%. and i just think, like that old movie says, you have to follow the money and the money is with the super wealthy. [applause] sec. clinton: now, we're also going to do more for education, starting with preschool education. [applause] sec. clinton: we're going to support our teachers in order to give them what they need to do the job we are asking them to do. [applause] sec. clinton: we are going to make four-year college affordable by making it debt-free. [applause] sec. clinton: and we are going

to help those of you who have student debt pay it back at a lower interest rate at a faster timetable. [applause] sec. clinton: and if you do ublic service like teaching, policing, firefighting, social work, we will forgive your ebt. [applause] sec. clinton: this seems to me, also, to be fair here it donald trump -- be fair. donald trump gets to refinance in forgive his debt. what about the families and students of america? if you vote for us, that is exactly what we're going to do next year. [applause] sec. clinton: so, there is the big agenda.

i've watched what has happened over the last two weeks. lot of the rhetoric that came from trump and his convention was so dark, so pessimistic, so negative. i know we have problems and challenges, i am not taking a position that we do not have work to do. in fact, i am telling you what work we can do together. but at the end of the day, we americans are better when we oll up our sleeves, set some goals and we work together because yes, we are stronger together. [applause] sec. clinton: and i'm very excited about what we can do. you see, i view this campaign as a giant job interview. i am here telling you what i

want to achieve, asking for your vote, and asking you also to hold me accountable. i want you not just to vote for me in november, but help may be the best president i can be for all americans. [applause] sec. clinton: i want to be the president for every american. [applause] sec. clinton: and that is why today, tim and i and anne are here, because we are kicking off this campaign in ohio. yes, we have a lot of other issues that we are concerned about. i see some of the t-shirts and the signs. we will defend planned parenthood from these outrageous attacks. [applause] sec. clinton: we will defend and improve benefits under social ecurity.

[applause] sec. clinton: we will take on the gun lobby for contra dances -- for comprehensive gun safety reform. [applause] sec. clinton: we will take on the real challenges that confront america, not pick fights with people, not act as though some folks are better than others, not insult and finger-pointing. we are going to stand up for america's rights, for women's rights and gay rights and voting rights and workers rights. [applause] sec. clinton: but we cannot do any of this without your help. and i am asking for. -- for it. we need you to get involved with

he campaign. if you will text, join at 47246 or go to hillary clinton.com, you can find out how to get nvolved. and by the way, we are hiring organizers in ohio if you're interested in being part of our campaign staff. because at the end of this lection, i want people to have made an informed choice. do not want folks to be misled, to listen to the rhetoric and demagoguery. i personally think donald trump poses a serious threat to our democracy. [applause] sec. clinton: it is going to be up to all of us to repudiate the

hatefulness, attacks on distinguished military leaders like general john allen who came to the democratic convention because he loves a country that he served for more than 40 years and wanted to be clear about what he thought was best for our national security. or insulting the family of a allen soldier. captain khan, an american muslim who sacrificed his life to protect his unit in other soldiers as a taxi raced towards the base of a -- begins of a base containing a bomb. when his father spoke at the convention and pulled out a copy of the constitution -- [applause]

sec. clinton: it was so fitting that happened in philadelphia, where our country started 240 years ago. they enshrined in our constitution the principle of religious liberty. they understood that america would be including and attracting people from all over the world. george washington, thomas jefferson -- they address different religions, including islam, that were present in america way back at our beginning. and i want us always to stand for freedom and equality and justice and opportunity. now and forever.

help us go out and win an election that will keep our democracy strong, our economy growing, and give every american a chance to live up to his or her god-given potential. thank you so much, columbus! [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. isit ncicap.org] ["ain't no mountain high

>> >> let's focus on what's going on. i don't know. the example that they have that staries and children, gold amilies and -- [indiscernible] i and the extraordinary -- will let others draw their own conclusion about the language here and the approach taken by donald trump.

>> do you think he has crossed the line? >> throughout the course of this campaign has consistently demeaned individuals, groups of americans, people around the world and one doesn't know where the bottom is and hard to imagine who has ever run to be president of the united states saying anything of what he says and the accumulation of it all is just beyond my comprehension. >> what do you think about his character? >> i'm going to let others comment on his character and his motivation and his behavior. but what i have said for months now that he's already demonstrated and does so every

y that he is unfit and unqualified to be president of the united states and commander of chief. d the latest attack on the khan family and general allen reinforces the doubt that any american should have on his campaign and the potential candidacy that he is offering to the american people. > do you think americans -- -- [indiscernible] >> he called mexicans rapists and criminals. he said a federal judge was qualified because he had mexican heritage because he was born in the state of indiana. he has called women pigs and mocked a reporter with a

disability. any one of those things is so an nsive and then to launch mr. khan's did on mother, who stood there on that stage with his mother honoring the sacrifice of their son and has in the days since spoken out about the overwhelming emotion that a mother was feeling as her son was being honored and then to have trump do what he did, i don't know where the bounds are. i don't know where the bottom is. [indiscernible] >> we have reached out and i spoke about captain k hmp an many months ago, so i was aware

of their sacrifice and i did it at the time because of trump's continuing offensive remarks about muslim-americans and muslims around the world which i thought were so inappropriate. and then to have someone like captain khan, a brave american -muslim serving our country, being in effect looped into all vitriole, i couldn't match the comments by his parents. >> why do you think republicans are continuing to stand by him, given what he said about john mccain and the khans, are they picking party over country? >> i think this is a time to pick country over party and a

number of republicans have said that. we have had republicans at our convention and we had endorsements from republicans who have analyzed his behavior and rhetoric in this campaign and made it clear where they stood. >> the republican governor of ohio has said this comment is completely unacceptable. he didn't qualify and called it straight up. if you can't show empathy for a gold star mom and dad, there is something fundamentally missing in your personality. >> are you worried that will americans are being desense tiesed by this kind of rhetoric? >> the uperror in response to a number of the comments that trump has made but in particular to his derog georgia tower show ts about the khan is

that the people who are decent and caring and looking for ways we can come together not to be dieded by fear and hatred. [talking over one another] >> let me just say this. this is a nonpartisan independent commission that are sets up the debate, right? and i was told they set up a schedule last fall and neither campaign, because we didn't know who the nominee was going to be. i'm going to be there. that's all i have to say. >> thank you folks. >> c-span bus is in philadelphia, pennsylvania and asked people about the democratic convention and the issues most important to them in

the 2016 presidential campaign. >> i'm a superdelegate from the great city of cleveland and gives me pleasure and honor to be part of this historic moment. my first convention was in 2006 and i had the opportunity to be part of the convention to nominate the first african-american president and look forward to going to do it. i'm excited about today and excited about opportunity. go hillary. >> i'm a delegate from los angeles, california and i'm supporting hillary. i couldn't be more excited. i really care about women's issues and middle east politics and she is the most qualified candidate for president. >> i'm here at the ohio dell gracious conference. most important issue for me is the supreme court.

and the supreme court can last 10, 20, 30 years. who do we want shaping our laws and policies. >> i'm a district delegate from fresno, california, congressional district 22. my delegate experience has been eye-opening. i feel like i'm witnessing the best of democracy. i do not feel included or my voice is heard and i'm very concerned for the future of my country for my daughters and granddaughters. >> i'm brian connolly and from california and having a great time. i'm here because of my grandmother, my mother, my wife and daughter and my grand baby who is six months old. it is so important this election to break the glass ceiling. >> voices from the road on

c-span. 4 >> a discussion on the future relations.ussian from washington journal, this is about 40 minutes. urnal" continu host: wi s is matthew rojansky, who is the director of the ken the institute at the wilson center, here to talk with us about the reported hacking of d.n.c. emails by russia and other emails as well that was reported over the last couple of days of other servers. let's talk about the d.n.c. hacking that led into the democratic convention. how do we know it was russia? guest: well, we can't be 100% certain, first of all, that it was russia. the evidence that we have so far points strongly in that direction. the u.s. government, certainly the administration has been careful because they don't want to politicize the domestic side

of this to the extent they have avoid it, but hints have been dropped pretty strong that will the evidence persuasive that the hackers who did this, they may have been private actors, but that they were acting at the direction of the russian state. that kind of plugs into a history that we know about of hacking by the russian state, where a lot of the cyberattacks we see against high-profile, political other targets, sometimes what seems to be hackivism, but may have an ulterior motive as well, is also state-linked. it's very commonly coming from russian territory, if you can trace the servers back and sometimes chain sandeeze other ajor state actors. host: what does russia have to gain? guest: the mode of question is very, very complicated. i think what's been frustrating to me and perhaps other russian experts, we've watched this conversation. it seems like as soon as people became relatively certain it was link to the russian

government, then they knew why the russians were doing it. that part is much more complicated. there were at least three things going o. the first is the russians have these operations long term, right? so they're constantly mounting attacks of various kinds against targets, sort of probing, seeing our vulnerabilities. this is part of a long-running spy game basically between russia and the united states. we've seen cyberversus spy, people getting beat up. we've seen a lot of that in the last few weeks, and that's part of the overall conflict in the relationship. so this is -- the timing of this is what makes it suspect. that brings tout second problem, why intervene in an american election? this, too, is consistent with what the russians have been doing. if you look at european elections and european politics over the last five, 10 years, they have been channeling money, often to fringe far right and far left candidates, not necessarily people they think are going to get elected. the challenge here is they like to stir the pot. they like create day no, sir western democracies in order to send the message that, hey, your system is not perfect,

right? you go lecturing us about democracy, but, you know, your system is not that great either. they love the panama papers leak, because it showed that we're constantly accusing them of corruption, you know, all of their top officials have all this dirty money. well, guess what. so does everyone in the west. so something like this, going into the d.n.c. and revealing that there's all this dirty dealing going on behind the scenes, democracy doesn't look the way it's supposed to look, the shoe is on the other foot now, look how dirty your politics are. that doesn't take touts third step, and this is what we've seen, about donald trump. there's been this automatic conclusion that trump is some kind of manchurian candidate. there's like a trump-putin bromance and he's trying to get trump elected. that's why i'm skeptical. host: you mentioned russia's involvement in european elections in the form of money. have we seen -- have we seen evidence of russian involvement in terms of hacking of any type or outright or covert support of candidates in other european -- in european elections?

guest: yes, absolutely. we have definitely seen what appears to be credible evidence that the russians, through front companies, have channeled money to individual politicians and to political parties. they have also created what appear to be credible media outlets, so someone comes to you with a microphone and says they're from such and such news service, but an actual fact, that news service exists solely for the purpose of an operation to get someone to say something or to provoke something, or even for a kind of sting, an entrapment operation against a mainstream politician. , all which of may or may not be designed to get individuals elected in european politics, but there's no question that the russian goal is to promote the far right and the far left in europe. by the way, we've seen huge benefits from that, right? brexit, definitely benefits russia's indication that the european union is kind of a sham, that it's defunct, doesn't have a future. and then the dutch referendum several months ago, in which the dutch people voted against offering ukraine deep and comprehensive free trade with europe. host: matthew rojansky is from

the wilson center. tell us what your mission is, and tell us specifically about your interest in russia and russian politics, russian government. guest: it was founded by george kennan, the u.s. diplomat. he was ambassador to stalin's soviet union, was actually thrown out by stalin. the kennan institute was created by him and several other distinguished leaders foreign four decades ago with the goal that americans should understand not just the soviet union as a geopolitical challenge, but russia, and that's really the challenge today, to sustain an american awareness and understanding of russia and what's going on. that's what frustrates me about the current debate, is that, oh, yeah, we recognize russia is a problem. we have a big problem with russia. but we've got to understand a whole lot more about where they're coming from and how they've seen the last 10 or 20 years in order to understand why they're doing what they're doing right now. it's not at all surprising. if you've been watching russia and paying attention to their narrative, which is that americans intervene in their politics, americans try to pick

winners and losers in the post-soviet space, which is their neighborhood, color revolutions, regime change. remember their complaints about libya and syria and so forth, it's not that surprising that they're trying to meddle in american politics. host: "the washington post" on friday had a piece on the roots of a beef between putin and clinton, a couple of them here. they talk about december 2011, unexpectedly protest broke out in moscow following the parliamentary election there is that featured secretary of state called the election neither free nor fair, and putin jumped on that attack, on that as an attack on russia and, by extension, on him. what are some of the other things that have sort of been percolating in this relationship or breakup of this relationship between putin and clinton and other u.s. officials? guest: well, that is a very big -- in terms of proximate cause causes for putin to have a real gripe with hillary clinton, he identified her, rightly or wrongly -- i mean, she was the

mouthpiece of the administration on foreign policy. i think the administration as a whole was, broadly speaking, in favor of the public protest in 2011 and 2012. the goal of which was more or less to bring down the putin system. putin, you're effectively russia's new czar. it's an absolute system. it's an authoritarian system. that means that any threat to the stability of that system is a threat to you personally. so this very much becomes a mano a mano thing between putin and clinton, but i should note, anti-peat between kind of the hard-core conservatives in russia and the clinton camp goes back to the 1990's. because remember, bill clinton's administration, in which hillary clinton was an active part, and certainly many of the people who are around hill sandri who would come in with hillary was in favor of nato enlargement, which it actually teed up, and then that happened, which russia was very much against, and also remember, clinton officials, as well as other leading americans, went into russia, literally did deals with

russian oligarches, helped to privatize the russian economy, which something most russian citizens were not thrilled about, creating this semicriminal state. and then putin, of course, comes in and essentially, you know, sweeps out the whole crowd that worked with the clinton folks. there's no love lost between these two camps. host: what happened to the reset button? guest: it got pressed, and that was kind of it. the truth of the matter is, from 2009, from the official announcement of the let set and this awkward moment, we actually got a fair amount of stuff done with the russians, but that was because. cycle that had come before that. remember, the georgia war in 2008. host: right. guest: after that, basically the bush administration and putin administration didn't talk to each other. host: does secretary kerry have a better relationship with the russians than former secretary clinton did? guest: i think that would be fair to say, yes. i think john kerr and i sergei labrov have a functional relationship. that doesn't mean they can get anything done, because their bosses don't necessarily want them to. host: our guest is matthew

rojansky, they're take calls and comments about the reported involvement of russians involved in the hacking of d.n.c. emails, and we'll read other stories related 2067892-748-8000 is the number to call for democrats. 202-748-8001 for republicans. all others, 202-748-8002. or send us a tweet @cspanwj. let's hear from louisiana. james, good morning, on our republican line. caller: good morning, bill, mr. rojansky. july 5, director comey came out and told all of america that the russians generally don't leave any fingerprints when they do hacking. now all the sudden they're leaving letters behind, using the same malware for multiple hacks t. doesn't seem like it can be tied to an entity that doesn't leave fingerprints. and finally, if putin wanted hillary to lose, why on earth would he do something to get rid of bumbling debbie wasserman schultz?

thanks. host: bill on the fingerprints issue. guest: yeah, so james, this is an interesting question, because i've wondered myself why it is that this hack has been so easy to pick apart and to prove reasonably, clearly, and i wondered the same thing around the olympic scandal. why is it that all this evidence is coming out? broadly speaking, when you have an intelligence operation, it's intended to be clan did he say teen and you have multiple layers of concealment. that doesn't seem to have worked here. but i don't necessarily buy conspiracy theories about russians wanting as a false flag for americans or the wider world to think this was someone else's operations. i think things just go wrong sometimes. in terms of the question of, you know, trying to get trump elected or trying to defeat hillary, i guess what perplexes me most is if you think vladimir putin is trying to get trump elected, you have to be pretty short sighted not to realize that branding one of the two american presidential candidates, no matter what you

think about the person, no matter what the person's position is, as the choice of vladimir putin, that's not much of an endorsement for the american people. and i would think that that would probably hurt that person more than it would help. obviously the polls are going to show us, but putin is no fool, and certainly the folks who analyze american politics in moscow, they're no fools either. you think they would advice that. host: melvin, next up from florida, democrats line. caller: good morning. let me just say one thing. i've been a c-span daily watcher or listener since 1980 when you first came on tv. one thing i want to say, give me a couple of seconds. first, people keep indicating that hillary clinton's servers was unsecure. that is false, and you can look it up and see that it was secure. just the f.b.i. couldn't tell you who. then with respect to donald trump's statement about he told putin to try to come back 30,000 emails, you had one

gentleman just indicate that the server was destroyed before that by the f.b.i. the actual problem is he's hoping that the emails were gotten before that and no one has to disclose the fact that her computer has been hacked. and even if it wasn't russia, even if someone would send them in, trump would come back to say, see, i'm getting along with if you tin, because he's actually sending the emails i requested. it showed they're getting along together. lastly, no one ever indicates, just like the last gentleman, someone mentioned the question about colin powell with the emails, he never sent -- he never sent any emails. so just to clarify some of these issues, a lot of people just talk about things that they never actually talked factual, saying when it comes down to. host: all right, melvin, we'll hear from matthew rojansky. caller: i think that this point about trump calling for the

russians to, you know, locate, uncover the 30,000 emails that hillary allegedly deleted, what's interesting to me about this point is that it's so illustrative of campaign rhetoric versus governing. i have no doubt, whatever anyone may think of donald trump, i have no doubt that a sitting american president is not going to be calling for any kind of foreign intervention in confidential american government communications. fine those communications belong to someone that he or she doesn't very much like, like, for example, opponents in the congress or something like that. and this is key to understand, because i think this is why putin is intervening now during the election, in the way that he's intervening, because causing chaos in the election is something that actually has ripple effects. it's something that the other candidates -- the candidates themselves are actually going to echo and increase his effectiveness, versus if he attacks after the election when

everyone has been forced to come together and say, well, you won and we're behind you now. then attacking america is just going to cause us to circle the wagons and his attack is less effective. attacking now when we're divided is very effective. host: a question for you on twitter about hillary clinton's server. is there any truth to the rumor that hillary clinton used a private contractor linked to russia that set up her personal email server? guest: you know, i don't see conclusive evidence one way or another about any direct links, but i can tell you is, in this day and age, the amount of financial links, technical links, cyberlinks and so forth that connect to moscow in some way, or to russian money -- this argument has been made about the trump option, that they have investors coming from russian money -- you really can build some pretty elaborated conspiracy theories out of this space. but this is the age of globalization. there's russian money all over the place. host: there's a "washington post" piece on saturday that says a russian hacker threat

grows, u.s. businesses are booming in response, talking about the organization called crowd strike. if you, matthew rojansky, were hired to consult in the campaign for the democratic or republican national can he to say what do we have to do to prevent russia from hacking us, from getting data, what would be the first step? guest: don't put anything really confidential on your servers. yeah, i don't think there's any way to prevent the kind of hacking we're going to see. look, it's one thing to prevent identity theft that's worth a couple hundred bucks, a few thousand dollars, maybe even tens of thousands of dollars. that can be done, you know, credit card companies and others can reimburse, the damage can be covered. the kind of damage from the leak of classified information, i mean, that's damage that can't be quantity feud. for that reason, the investment of foreign governments, which have vast resources, are willing to make, breaking into those secrets, is basically limitless. and that means we're going to have an endless arms race in the cyberspace, and i think we're already there.

guest: c-span is also seen on sundays on the british parliament channel. we hear from manchester next up, and this is simon in the u.k. good morning. caller: good afternoon. just a couple of points i just wanted to make. can you hear me? host: yes, i can. go ahead, simon. caller: a couple of points i wanted to make. firstly, brexit will actually hold the e.u. to form from becoming an unelected bureaucracy, which if you listen to the people, doesn't take issues with migration. to actually becoming an elected democracy, because it isn't a democracy at the moment. the second point i wanted to make was that we talk about russia's influence on brexit, but you've also got to consider russia's influence on the scottish national party, which are borderline marx i think so, the labour party, who's led by c.n.d., a campaigner who's also a marxist. we've got some serious extremists in the u.k., and it isn't the brexit people.

it's the other side. and i think what you guys might watch too much of the mainstream media, which focuses on that, and what brexit proved was that mainstream media isn't always right and people don't necessarily listen to it. and that's what brexit was a vote for. it was against the mainstream, against the government, against obama, and it wasn't just a protest vote. it was a vote for the truth, in my opinion. host: simon, thanks for joining us. guest: thanks, simon. as to brexit potentially in the long term helping the e.u. reform, maw may well be right. i hope that you are right. but i think given the choice of the u.k. remains in the european union, sort of all of the things being equal, maybe the e.u. is not as popular or effective as it should be, but it kind of stumbles forward, and the e.u.'s policies in the east towards the former soviet countries, ukraine, georgia and so forth, those also continue, versus there is a disruptive change. the u.k. leads the european union, a message is sent to

brussels, to the world that europe is wrong about a lot of things, it's doing things wrong, and it needs to be changed. there's no question that is the message that the kremlin has preferred. and for that reason, there was a sort of sly smile that crossed putin's face when he was responding to questions about, you know, oh, well, no, i would never have any intervention in u.k. domestic politics. but the other point you make, that there is likely to be some sort of russian interest or russian connection on both sides of that issue and of other issues in u.k. politics and in european politics, agree with you completely. i've made this point as well, that the more moscow can help to stir the pot, and this goes with money, it goes with broadcasting, so russia today and other kinds of propaganda, news services, and it also goes with things that are said directly from the kremlin, so challenges that are launched at american or british or european politicians and how they respond, the goal is to create chaos, to seed uncertainty in the western democratic electorate, so that they look at the institutions we've

built, whether it's the european union or the institutions of government in the united states, or others, and they say, hey, these guys are not trustworthy. this system is broken. and that helps that system is broken. get out of our politics, don't judge our democracy. don't judge our record on human rights. a headlight -- there was a post,ne in the washington an opinion piece, this is clinton has now made the democrats the anti-russia party kind of -- anti-russia party, kind of a change. guest: putin was secretary of nationith the democratic added a reset. russia has not historically been a partisan issue. even during the cold war, there was kind of historic consensus about waging the cold war and

confronting the soviet union. senator henry jackson was a democrat. that part does not surprise me. what surprises me is the assumption that the campaign rhetoric, where both sides are looking for issues that can divide them and that can distinguish them, traditionally russia is not one of them, but suddenly russia has become one. it is convenient and russia is putting itself out there. the assumption that that would continue after election day -- i think the moment after election day, whoever wins will get that intelligence briefing and will go, oh, ok, here is what we're going to do about russia. bar that said, why can't we must -- cooperate with moscow? they said, let's cooperate, and within a couple years, we get into problems, usually over some kind of issue in russia's domestic politics, how they treat their own people, or the former soviet countries and how

russia tries to manipulate outcomes or accuses the u.s. of doing that. host: how might this incident combo kit our foreign relations with russia in terms of areas of cooperation, syria, for example, and a headlight in the wall china journal says that and russia pledged to drill in the south china sea. as far as china and russia are concerned, there is no doubt that the alienation of russia from western institutions, so russia has been kicked out of the g8, now the g7. russians and americans, russians and europeans, do not have the kind of regular summit meetings are used to have. the nato-russia council has not been functioning. not surprisingly, the russians are looking for other partners, and the chinese naturally present themselves. not an easy partner, to imagine a russian-chinese alliance is a bridge too far still. in terms of bilateral

cooperation on one-off issues, like syria, for example. can we just do a deal to defeat isis and move on? the answer is our financial difference and worldviews tends to get in the way. the russians would did syria and say you americans are crazy. you think there is some kind of democratic, moderate future possible in that country. it is either assad or isis. american's object to that view. so if we do not agree on the outcome, how are we supposed to get to a deal? host: a look at a headline. gary, valencia, california, independent line. caller: good morning, gentlemen. i think mr. rojansky is nothing but the tail wagging the dog. this is misdirection. i have not seen proof that russia did this. and fact, the issue is that what bernie and donald trump are saying, that both major parties are rigged, and they keep people

out from coming in and trying to oust the elite. debbie wasserman schultz got caught, and the dnc got caught, and he is not focusing on that. he wants to misdirect people so you do not focus on how corrupt both major parties are. now they then fired debbie wasserman schultz, and then hillary's campaign hires her right after that to show you that they do not care about the people. they do not care at all about the people. he is doing a tremendous disservice misdirecting the people from the focus it should be, that the dnc is corrupt, that hillary clinton is corrupt. guest: well, thanks, gary. first of all, i do not think i have ever been accused of spin, so that is a first to get on the air. second, i am a russia analyst, so my job is to look at the

russia angle of this. look, whether what you say about the american elite, the establishment, is true or not, and i think plenty of people are persuaded of that, i read an interview just yesterday in the financial times with the editor-in-chief of rt, used to be russia today, the little green box, the russian global news network. what was interesting to me is she made the exact argument that you just made, which he does not mean it is wrong. it just means that the russians are very excited, and they are very excited to spend billions of dollars of their money to point out the ways in which they believe the western institutions of government, of politics are corrupt and are not serving the people. i think what the conversation has been about is, why is it subtly that russians are rushing and to do this in american politics, and should that make us uncomfortable, and what does it mean about where this is going and what we will do about it, not so much about the problems we have in american

politics, which many of us know about and are frustrated about. from thethew rojansky cannon institute at the wilson center. here are the numbers -- int: roger is up next alabama. good morning. caller: yes, the last caller completely took the wind out of my sails. i think the contact and the e-mails is more important, and wouldn't it be against the law, i mean, there is an investigation on clinton's e-mail server, and she deleted, what, 33,000 e-mails and scrubbed the machine, wouldn't that be against the law for her to do that?

guest: we know the fbi investigated hillary clinton's server. where are they investigating this alleged tact of the dnc, allegedly by the russians? guest: they're being relatively tightlipped so far. it is pretty clear the administration wants to substantiate in some way that there was russian involvement here, but no one has been prepared to, but the document, a federal government investigation that leads it right to put in's doorstep. it may happen though. host: you kind of opened the door on this talking about the european elections and russia's involvement there. there was analysis in new york times yesterday, hacking of democrats e-mails raises worries some questions about what is next. they write if russia was behind the stolen data from the

democratic national committee, you may see one of those tools of its to mystic politics employed as a hostile weapon and for policy. i hope i get the word right, there is a russian word for this practice -- compromat. compromising and materials, referring to the time worn -- guest: it is a fantastic point. would russian interest has been an coming into the u.s. election in this way, again, may not be so much about the outcome of the election, which i think they really would be delusional if they think they can predict that or shape it in a reliable way that would be good for russia. because i think the net negative is already so high at this point for the russian intervention that it almost seems pointless.

i think the real purpose is to create a russian feeling, the sense of everything is dirty. what a couple of our callers of just illustrated, and fact, the sense that everyone, all of these powerful people, they are all crooks, right? romat is the right word. everyone has a folder full of bad evidence about them that someone can use against them. that saps confidence in the institutions of american governance and the whole western order, which is what russia cares about her they do not care about american domestic politics. they care about the role of america plays in europe. if we are weaker at home, we are weaker abroad. some storiesere that the democratic committee was hacked? guest: the kind of operation we're seeing little bits and pieces of know, and i cannot say if it is intentional that it is

being revealed now or it is coincidental, that these are ongoing operations. you do not set out to do this, and 24 hours later you have a massive public leak. the russians and other government-backed hackers are constantly assaulting major political, corporate, organizational, and other targets in the united states, and we have to be aware of them. host: wikileaks denied a connection to the russian hack in the leak of that material. guest: i would be surprised if wikileaks did not have some connections to at least the individual hackers doing the work. it does not mean those folks get a russian government paycheck. it does not mean they are cozy in bed together. i would be surprised if there was not a relationship. host: bob in pennsylvania. good morning. familiar withi am russia. i study it. and i see a lot of things are sold to russia from united states. one of the name brands is caterpillar.

they're sold throughout the whole entire country. i mean, you have got to be blind not to see a cat in russia. it is in the whole countryside. open your eyes up, america. russia is the heartbeat of america. if hillary clinton is getting wiretapped or e-mails, it is either north korea or china using russian software. and when you send someone to or talko have a meeting with russia, have the respect and the dignity to speak in russian and understand russian, and god bless you if you can read russian. but have the respect and dignity and not speak in english. a speak and russian. and when you also go to russia, if you see a man changing a

truck tire along the highway, it is going to say kelly springfield, akron, ohio. host: ok, bob. caller: if you go to a coal mine, you are going to see mining inclement made in pennsylvania. wake up, america. you are being lied to. host: i am trying to find out, he says he has studied russia. i wanted to find out if he has been there. guest: i cannot agree more with the idea that you should speak russian. one of the challenges i think we have in the united states is after the end of the cold war, we basically abandoned our investment in russian expertise. we said, well, this conflict is over, so now we need to learn about the arab world or east asia or so forth. it troubles me how often i am interacting with folks at senior levels of the u.s. government who have response ability to that part of the world who have either of you that has almost been frozen in carbonite for 25 years, and all of a sudden, ok,

we have to do the cold war again, or they just have never been there i do not know anything about the place. host: what about the pipeline of people coming through paul -- college programs? guest: the wonderful thing about this country is we always have another generation coming, and it is always making us stronger, but there is a long tail on that. suddenly, we are aware that we have a real crisis with the u.s. relationship with russia. the russian-speaking world is one-third of a billion people. coming up. are i was told by a very senior u.s. intelligence official when i said, why is it i ask for a show of hands in a room full of analysts, and a quarter of them have ever been to the country or speak the language, and he said, you know, it is a 10-your problem. , it will be different. host: how many times have you been there? guest: russia, dozens.

i have lived there. i have been there many times. host: making anything anti-russia, that sets us back, and we wake up in a new cold war thanks to trump. that the fbi did nothing to protect the e-mails. and this observation, let's not forget that we are probably hacking everyone else. is one ofh, that those observations that i think it out help but have an effect. the russians have always wanted to remind americans of this sort of tit for tat, the shoe is on the other foot. the reality is, i cannot speak to any of the details, but i would imagine that most of the things that the russians are doing to target americans, americans, in some way or other, have been doing similar things to russia. that is the argument. the best example i think goes to elections in the post-soviet state. americans think about training political parties, which is something we have done for a long time. we say, hey, look at this great

system we have, and we will show you how to campaign effectively. but we tend not to offer that supports every political party appeared for example, if there is a far right political party, anti-american political party, understandably, we are not inviting them to come to our trainings, and we are not giving them support. the russians view that as, you know, intervention to change the outcomes and him is to politics. again, it is a clash of worldviews spirit we think we're supporting an outcome towards freedom and democracy that is good for us, get for them, and russians say this is just tit-for-tat, we're doing the same thing you have been doing. host: wichita falls, republican line. caller: good morning. i guess my comment is more of a political observation. i think what is lost on a lot of people here is there is precedence for this happening before. in 2008, sarah palin's e-mail records were hacked, and they were all put out there. i do not recall the amount of fuss and mainstream media and

dnc hysteria about the fall of western civilization because her e-mails are ely differences, there was really nothing of bears on there. i think the average person looks at this and says it is bad that russians did this, but they had think records, retail records they get hacked. they had a hollywood producer that had his e-mails hags. the embarrassing stuff about angelina jolie. join the club, dnc, this kind of thing happens. host: you touched on this earlier. guest: yeah, i don't recall that with palin, but if that was the case, it is entirely possible that there was a russian connection or some other foreign government connection. what would have been the motivation at that time, we can only speculate. i think your point is well-taken, which is that this is a bigger problem than one particular moment in one campaign with one candidate and one foreign adversary.

this is just going to be a reality of american politics going forward. we live in the globalized world and in the information world. that means the ability of four players that seek to in some way affect our politics, intervene, to damage, whatever it is, their ability to inject information, whether it is a wiki leaks flood or one little league bit of information or a report, it will be there. bethe same token, we need to careful about saying, the information, we do not care where it came from. and the law, they call it the fruit of the poisonous tree. if the information is required to really illegal means, espionage, they need to be careful about rewarding that by saying, ok, that is a perfectly legitimate point out in our poli " withcer: next, "q&a author joshua kendall.

then hillary clinton and tim kaine campaign in ohio. after that, it is on the 2016 presidential campaign since the close of the conventions. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] ♪ ,"nouncer: this week on "q&a joshua kendall. he discusses his book "first dads." brian: joshua kendall. what is this book about and where did you get the idea? my last book was called "america's of senses" and added profiles of seven american icons were control