[captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable tellitcorp. 2016] >> the road to the white house continues to wind its way across the country in advance of november's election. join us later today when hillary clinton and vice president biden will hold a joint appearance in mr. biden's hometown of spring, pennsylvania. scranton, pennsylvania. later this afternoon, it is her republican opponent donald trump. he is in youngstown, ohio, and is expected to talk about foreign policy. watch that live on c-span2.

taking a look at some of tomorrow's primary contests, alaska's republican senator lisa murkowski is up for reelection. here is how her home state newspapers and having the race. also tomorrow, wyoming is holding primary elections. dick cheney's daughter is among the candidates. stay tuned to c-span for the latest primary election results starting tomorrow night. tonight, the communicators visits middle east broadcast networks along with other u.s. sponsored broadcast of news. we sit with brian, president of the middle east broadcasting network, fran myers, and omar, digital manager of raise your voice about how does your democratic values with an audience that would not otherwise be exposed to a broader spectrum of opinions. >> we have been on the air for 12 years now. of time, theiod

audience has come to learn that it is not propaganda. we do strive to be balanced. coveredprovide topics topics, and we provide information that is not readily available. >> there are not enough people telling the stories of how difficult it is to be a woman and a girl child. how many stories have we done on child marriages? i can't count. you cannot do enough because really in the middle east, they are not telling the story. is too close to home. >> a campaign we launched in 2015 to encourage people to engage and be part of the discussion of important issues in the region, including extremism, root causes of extremism, women's rights, human rights, all these issues important. >> watch the communicators

tonight on c-span two. >> joining us from las vegas is fo former new mexico governor gary johnson. thank you for being with us. gov. johnson: great to be with all of you. thank you. >> joining us is david drucker, senior correspondent for the washington examiner. he is also the host of the examining politics podcast which is available online at washingtonexaminer.com. thank you for joining us. governor, let me begin with the commission on presidential debates which is sent at the benchmark the 15% minimum for you to participate in the upcoming debate. the first scheduled for late september. is that a fair benchmark? gov. johnson: i think the benchmark is fair. what is not fair is that all the polls being conducted right now have trump and clinton and about

40% of the polls on the second and third question will ask what happens if you add johnson to that mix. right now, we are pretty solidly in the 10% range. but if they were to -- and, 99% of the media just reports the top two lines. what you have is a majority of people in this country don't even know there is a third-party candidate. i believe if my name was just included in the top line, i would be at 20%. a lot of that having to do with the discontent of trump and clinton. bill and myself, libertarian candidates for president. we will be the only third party on the ballot in all 50 states. >> with some new polling numbers from reuters just out today. >> reuters with the poll numbers out this afternoon found clinton at 41%, trump at 35% and you at

7%, and jill stein at 3%. that is half, less than half of of the 15% mark. what can you do between now and september to clear 15%? how are you freaking out to disaffected republicans? 35% is pretty low for a republican nominee. there are clearly a lot of republicans not satisfied with their nominee. gov. johnson: over the last month, our numbers have doubled. seven is about as low as i have seen, and i'm not trying to make an excuse for the seven is about as low as i've seen in any poll. i'm just back to my example, i daresay that that poll that was just conducted had trump and clinton at the get-go and as an afterthought, they added my name to it. 65% of americans don't even know there is a third party. our social media numbers have doubled in the last month and so we are reaching about 25 million people.

we are doing it with -- in our case with robust fundraising but that fundraising does not match either trump or clinton, but i speaks volumes to just how much discontent there is out there and i think bill weld and myself are in this big six lane in the middle. we are fiscally conservative and socially tolerant and accepting. we are questioning these military interventions. at the end of the day, they are making the world less safe and not more safe. when we support regime change, this is what we get. >> let me turn to david drucker. i was hoping you could talk to us a little bit about some of the metrics of your campaign. there hasn't more attention given to your campaign given the circumstances than is normally paid to a third party. can you talk to us about your fundraising, where it is at? talk to us about your campaign organization? where is that?

where are we going to find you the most? where do you think you can make the most damage to try to score some upset victories and possibly surprise people? gov. johnson: we think that by being in the presidential -- neither of us, to former republican governors, reelected in heavily democratic states, we think that if we are in the presidential debate, anything is possible. and we do believe that is a very real possibility. looking at the western states, you could look at utah, wyoming, nevada, montana, idaho, the dakotas, alaska. on the east side, bill weld would have a list of those himself where we might actually win outright. the idea is to win outright. i know that sounds crazy. but this is a crazy election cycle, and i saw last week, two weeks ago, where the projected

audience for the first presidential debate is going to exceed that of the super bowl. there is no way to we have any chance of winning if we are not in that game. meaning the presidential debate. >> already donald trump has raised questions on the commission on presidential debates, the dates, who the moderators will be. almost setting himself up to say i am not going to participate. do you worry that if you are included in the debate, you might give either hillary clinton or donald trump a reason to say we will not be there? gov. johnson: i don't think people will stand for that. but we will see. i think that would be a big mistake given what i just mentioned. super bowl audience, you'd decline that? i don't think that would be a wise decision politically. >> you said you are seen more in this fundraising cycle than the last election cycle. you expected public funding. are you planning to do that again this time or have you

taken that off of the table as an option? gov. johnson: we have taken it off. it is a pain in the rear. the fact that there are billions of dollars in this fund. we check it off when we file our income tax prepare there billions of dollars in this fund and they are disputing the $300,000 that we took in matching funds. it is political. it is democrats and republicans , and they do everything they can to discourage a third party. we are opting out of this matching funds because of our experience the last cycle were literally we're being questioned the i'd thought it andy t'd crossed. that was with a relationship with the federal elections commission's that kind of went like this. back and forth. they said you can't hold us to anything. all of a sudden, the communication dried up and all

these questions after the entire time we were engaged with them. so really we're going to stick steer clear of that. >> just a quick follow-up. what does your fundraising look like in the third quarter? july 1 and onward? gov. johnson: i think that it is perhaps safe to say that we might be at 10 times the level we were in the whole cycle of 2012. i think you will some robust numbers relative to democrats and republicans. it is still a long ways back but enough funds for us to actually be able to play in this game. >> much has been written about the relationship between you and your running mate and mitt romney. will mitt romney be endorsing you and your running mate? gov. johnson: i think it would really be difficult for someone who is a prior elected

republican to endorse -- . certainly it is harder if you are an elected republican or democrat to cross over the line but we are seeing that. , regardless of whether it's mitt romney or not, there are those that are crossing the line. i am really heartened by all of it. >> do you want his endorsement? gov. johnson: it would be terrific to have it. i'm not expecting it. i'm not expecting anybody understanding the realities of being a former elected official or an elected official. that is a tough one for those that are in the position. >> let me go back to ginger gibson and the poll numbers from reuters. does that surprise you, that low number for the republican nominee? gov. johnson: i've always maintained that donald trump alienates more than half of republicans and a republican for me has always meant smaller government and that is what bill

weld and i are. we are smaller government. on the civil liberties side, and the side of marriage equality, a woman's right to choose, legalizing marijuana, really question our military intervention. i think that also draws from democrats. i think we draw equally from both sides. no surprises. donald trump alienates republicans. >> governor, what about the ted cruz republicans who say they can't vote for donald trump? maybe you have encountered some who have said they can't get behind legalizing marijuana and marriage equality and any of the other social issues. when you interact with those voters, what do you tell them? what is your pitch to say they can vote for you despite their differences? gov. johnson: it doesn't matter what you are socially as long as you don't force it on others. to come down on the side of choice on all of these issues, that is the libertarian position. the libertarian position is also

-- bill weld and i are promising in the first 100 days to submit a balanced budget on how you do that. to do that, you have to address medicaid and medicare, to do that reform needs to take place with regard to social security, and that is not cutting social security but reform. and it is military spending. when the pentagon itself says we could reduce u.s. bases by 20% and that has not happened, where is the common sense here? >> i wanted to pick up on that, talk to you about how you envision your first hundred days agenda. just to get a feel your style of libertarianism. when a lot of voters, people who don't pay as much attention as we do, think about libertarians they think about the political party that doesn't believe the government should run stoplights. let a private company police the streets.

right? gov. johnson: you know you are libertarian when you come to the intersection at 2:00 a.m., the light is red, you sit there for a few seconds and there is nobody coming from any direction whatsoever, so you go through the intersection. that is a libertarian trait. >> when a lot of people think of you, they think primarily about your stance on marijuana which is becoming more in vogue across the country. walk us through both domestically and internationally, foreign policywise, how you envision your presidency? what you would do in your first 100 days? we have both clinton and trump to some degree talk about less foreign intervention. although in some ways trump is a lot more hawkish as clinton. trump has gone so far as to say he would pull the u.s. out of long-standing post-world war ii alliances. what you look back as a

-- what do you look like as a commander-in-chief as it relates to the traditional u.s. foreign-policy and domestically, what you try to do first? before you have lost your political capital. gov. johnson: we honor all treaties and obligations. that would be wrong to come to the office and not honor everything it is that we are obligated to do. with regard to foreign policy, i think we need to get congress involved in a declaration of war. we need to have an invincible national defense, but when we get involved in regime change that is when things get messy. , not on purpose but clinton and obama backed both the opposition in libya and syria, and this was not intentional, but they backed the opposition. they armed the opposition and the opposition was aligned with isis. the opposition gets wiped out and isis ends up with all the , arms. that is what we are dealing with right now. afghanistan.

i supported going into afghanistan to begin with because we were attacked. make no bones about it. if we are attacked, we will attack back. with regard to afghanistan, we went to afghanistan to get osama bin laden and al qaeda. after seven months, we wiped out al qaeda. know osama bin laden, but we could have left afghanistan after seven months and kept our options open for osama bin laden. but look, getting out of afghanistan tomorrow, as bad as that situation might be, you're going to face the same consequences 20 years from now if that is when we decide to get out or forever according to some. have we not learned the lessons of history? it does not work when it comes to afghanistan. >> do you agree or disagree with donald trump when he calls the president the founder of isis and also tied hillary clinton, calling her the m.v.p.? gov. johnson: unintentional.

founder of isis, that somehow has this connotation that they support isis. no, they didn't support isis. the end result has been bet -- that unintended consequence of seeing that happen. it isn't just obama and clinton. it was going into iraq. it was getting rid of saddam hussein, which was a check when it came to iran. regime change. we get involved in regime change. we end up with all these new consequences that continue us in the state of what seems to be endless war. >> one quick follow up. going back in time, there are mistakes that we could look at and if this was not done, we may not face this problem. what we are facing today is a threat from the islamic state . both republicans and democrats and people unaffiliated seem to recognize that.

there have been two isis-inspired terrorist attacks on our soil in the past year, we . we have seen what is been going on europe. what is your plan? do you think it requires a us-led plan to combat the threat of isis and defeat it? governor johnson: how about progress getting involved in having a national discussion and debate on how we move forward. i think that isis -- you can look at it as sand through an hourglass. you point out that there were terrorist actions carried out in this country that were isis inspired. certainly not directly linked with isis, but we will see that isis threat through to its conclusion. i also think it is significant that a couple weeks ago, there was a poll among active military personnel on whom they supported for president of the united states. myself and bill weld were on top of that poll with donald trump second and clinton third.

>> governor, donald trump raised a lot of eyebrows last month when he said that he would require some checks before moving to defend a nato ally if the russians were to attack, or another country were to attack one of those nations. do you share his opinion that nato needs to be reevaluated and that the treaty is outdated or do you think that the current situation where we as a nation would move as quickly as in its to protect an ally should remain in place? gov. johnson: we need to honor all existing treaties and obligations. no bones about that. but the world is dynamic. government is dynamic. re-examining these treaties, do we really want to go to war over countries that were in the former soviet union? communism is dead. that was russia that led that revolution.

the new world moving forward, look, the whole intention of a johnson-weld administration will be to make the world a safer place. not a less safe place. in that context, i really think the biggest threat is north korea and the fact that at some point, these intercontinental ballistic missiles are going to work. from the standpoint of diplomacy, i think we should really join with china here to address this because they understand this better than anyone. we have 40,000 troops in south korea. there is no chance that north korea invades south korea conventionally. but they do have those nuclear weapons. we have them covered with our umbrella, but that is the scary part of all this. are we going to go to nuclear war with north korea? that in my opinion has to be addressed, and we can do that with china and potentially have the opportunity to withdraw 40,000 troops from south korea.

imagine china with 40,000 troops in central america? gov. johnson: one of the words -- >> one of the words we have been hearing a lot is temperament with regards to donald trump. do you think donald trump is the has the temperament to be commander-in-chief? gov. johnson: no. and i base that on all these things that he has said starting with the deportation of 11 million illegal immigrants. that has the basis in total this misunderstanding, building a fence across the border and am speaking now as a border state governor. when he calls mexican immigrants murderers and rapists, when in fact statistically they are more law-abiding than u.s. citizens. they are not taking job that u.s. citizens want. we should be embracing immigration. we should make it as easy as possible for somebody that wants to come to this country and work to be able to get a work visa.

a work visa should entail a background check and a social security card and applicable taxes. with regard to being inflammatory and divisive and isolationist, these are the words that donald trump seems to be uttering every single day. i think he said 150 think that would disqualify anyone else from being president of the united states and all you have to do is wait until tomorrow and it will be 153. >> speaking of domestic all caps on governor, talk to us about your position on nafta, the transpacific partnership. the polling still shows there is somewhat of majority support for free trade agreements. politically, there has become a bipartisan sense difficult to muster support for tdd and even talking about renegotiating or walking away from nafta. it gets you a good, loud cheer. the two major candidates, the

republican and democrat, are in somewhat of agreement on trade, at least rhetorically. what would you do as president , and just if i can throw this out there as well, when you talk about reducing the size and scope of government, what does that mean? gov. johnson: is there any part of government that couldn't be more efficient? i don't think any of us would suggest that government can't be more efficient and that everybody could do with less. but you can't do with less if you are not going to actually address medicaid and medicare. those are the 800 pound gorillas in the room, and we are the free trade candidates. i think that crony capitalism is alive and well in the world. crony capitalism, very simply that is when government gets , involved in these deals that unfairly give advantages to those that ultimately pay for

that advantage. free trade -- i'm afraid in this country, we have come to associate free-trade and crony capitalism as one in the same when in fact they are opposites. free trade is what it implies. without government interference. government regulation, if it comes to health and safety, that is one thing. but if it comes to actually unfair advantage, meaning those that have money and influence, they pay for it, and i'm speaking now as the former governor of new mexico seeing this legislation passes and vetoing it whenever i saw unfair advantage. i don't think we can achieve incoming that income equality in this country, but we can achieve an opportunity quality. that is what people generally

genuinely want. make no mistake, i think that right now is an issue that there is no opportunity equality. but there can be. >> governor, there is one place in the polls where you are doing better than donald trump and that is among millennials. one might joke that it would be your marijuana position but other than that, why do you think young people are more interested in your campaign and than they are in the republican opponent? gov. johnson: i'm leading trump when it comes to millennials. if you take the 18-24 age group, actually leading among that age group. so draw your own conclusions. we have blown it. my generation has blown it. these are issues that should have been resolved long ago. they have not been. the issues that there would be health care going forward and there would be a safety net for all of us, that there would be retirement going forward, i

think young people recognize that unless something is done, it is just not going to happen and i think in people recognize the fallacy of going to war supporting regime change. >> one state you have the possibility of picking up his is utah, where donald trump did poorly. he even admitted in the past week that it has been a tough state for him. just use that has one example. how do you win the state of utah? gov. johnson: i think the majority of republicans are about smaller government. that is what drew me to the republican party. but there is the social dogma that the republicans have of late, and i'm now talking about the last 20 years that social conservatives, you either on board or you are not. libertarians, they could care less whether you are socially conservative or socially liberal. just don't force it on anybody else.

i think the republican party is carrying that on its back. i think when it comes to all republicans, utah, it is first and foremost about smaller government and then there is one unforgivable in life and that is hypocrisy. that is saying one thing and doing another. and i think politicians are really poor in that category, meaning saying one thing and in fact doing another. i have always prided myself on telling the truth. if you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything. it makes things a lot simpler. >> david drucker? >> in terms of where you go next, and we touched on this earlier in the conversation, is it the mountain states? is that where you can do the most damage in terms of your opponents? and how much of what you are doing in this campaign do you think could have a lasting

effect versus the fact that you have got a chance at attention here because americans think so historically poorly of the two major party nominees? gov. johnson: where is the representation for 43% of america that are registered as independent? i happen to think that bill weld and myself occupy the middle of what has become extreme on both sides. republicans and democrats. look, the scenario here is that if you vote for clinton, you vote for trump, congress -- things are going to be more polarized than ever and let's not kid ourselves, they are going to be. either side winning. what about the scenario of libertarians winning? a couple of former republican

governors serving and heavily blue states hiring libertarians, republicans, democrats, a real bipartisan administration and calling out both sides to come to the middle to deal with the issues facing this country. under those three scenarios, i think you can make a case that the third scenario might make some sense. >> finally, if you do not participate in the debates next >> if you do not participate in the debates next month, then what? gov. johnson: we will keep after it. i don't think there's any chance of winning. you can't win if you are not the super bowl and the super bowl is to see who the next president is. i'm optimistic that it is going to happen. >> if you are not the debates, he don't think you can win? gov. johnson: there is no way you can win the race. that would just in my opinion defy reality. >> gary johnson is the libertarian nominee. he is joining us from las vegas.

thank you for being with us. >> we continue the conversation. david, let's talk more about the race. the polls on outline, donald -- are not lobbying, donald trump is losing. -- are not lying. >> if you look at all the data and historical record of the data, we can be pretty confident that what the polls are saying us today are correct for what is happening today. what's up at me, donald trump is losing to clinton. we have seen a state of natural polls in front of a saw a battleground poll. he is losing badly in some cases been that does not mean he can turn it around. one of the biggest misconceptions, maybe because they want to believe so badly that the side can win is that somehow the pulling a stop sign the whole truth on purpose or accidentally bring if we look back at elections, whether midterm elections or in particular talking about a presidential election, we have

found that the national polls tend to tell us what is happening and they tend to, the very last polls between -- before election day tells us who will win. >> polls showing that donald trump is struggling and yet it is only mid-august and we have seen historically that things can change pretty quickly. >> he made a excellent point when he said that the debates are the super bowl. that is the next inflection point. as david said, we look at trendlines and the trendline is very bad for donald trump. it is going to take big movement for those trendlines to be altered. right now we are not seen that happen on the campaign trail. wrinkly, most americans are not paying attention there more

excited about michael phelps they are not watching a campaign speech. i think it is good to be those debates and for that reason, it donald trump chooses not to participate, that could be detrimental. he would list the stage to move the numbers in the operas of direction. >> is gary johnson ready for this moment? he has been getting a lot of media attention. he is on all the national networks. is he maximizing his opportunity? >> only time will tell. i'm not sure there's anything more he can do to next the moment. the one thing about politics is we tend to overthink these things. if they like things, they send you money. johnson is a competent third choice in this race. he has a record of being a businessman and a governor of a real state for two terms.

he's not some joke. at the end of the day if you don't have a lot of american voters being inspired by a libertarian philosophy of governing, even jobs and wealth, not personal return at some are going to be enough. i think he gave an impressive interview with us. i got more out of him than i expected to raise on what i seen in the past. at the end of the day, it is about anybody to turn out for you. the modern era of campaigning, one of the things that hurt any third party candidate is all of the troops on the ground in data analytics. the voting, agree with what ginger said, the voting starts next month. in a few weeks, absentee ballots are being mailed out. october 12, ohio starts. at the time he gets to december 26 in the next debate, voting is well underway. this is not like 30-40 years ago when you waiting for the final seven days. you have a late surge or in october surprise that could but

things out. things can really get set in stone. a lot of people aren't paying attention the summer but barack obama blue mitt romney out of the water. >> i'm looking to see if he is going to connect with voters. he is holding the rallies. he knows those people will be voting for him. what is his campaigning to reach the undecided? the people who he could win over from a gary johnson orate undecided position? that is the most important thing between now and the selection. >> ginger gibson with reuters. and the host of the examining politics podcast. available on websites. to both of you, thank you so much for being with us. have a good weekend.

house road to the white continues to wind its way across the country in advance of the elections. join us later today when hillary clinton and vice president biden will post a joint of in scranton, pennsylvania. we will have that for you live on c-span. later this afternoon, her republican opponent, donald trump. watch that live at 2:00 eastern on our companion network, c-span2. ravageds continue to louisiana, michael edison hayden situation. on the it reads in part, more than 20,000 louisiana residents have rest here from their homes, and 12,000 are currently in oflters in the wake devastating flash flooding that on sundayent obama

evening to declare a federal emergency in the state. the state republican senator l cassidy has issued a tweet calling for volunteers to help with recovery and cleanup efforts. >> tonight, the communicators visit middle eastern network.ing we speak with brian connick, president of the middle east broadcasting network. sharing democratic values with an audience that would otherwise broader'sosed to a drum of opinions. >> we have been on there for 12 years. over that time, the audience has come to learn it is not propaganda. we do strive to be balanced, but provide coverage of topics

for information not readily available. evilere are not enough telling the story of how womanult it is to be a and girl child. how many stories have we done on child marriages? i cannot even count. in the middle east they are not telling that story. too sensitive, too close to home. ina campaign we launched to encourage people to be part of the discussion of an orton issues in rootegion, including causes of extremism and unemployment -- all of the important. are two.tch tonight on c-span

>> more now on the 2016 presidential race with a pair of .olitical pollsters this washington journal segment runs an hour. >> republican. in strategist. thank you for being with us. let me begin by asking you where trump campaign is at the moment. speculation on the fact that he release his tax return. hillary clinton did. what is the state of the >> you haveht now? the postconvention time. trying to figure out how to switch from mobilization-based rallying strategy to talking more general population voters. sometimes that can be rocky days. they have had rocky days since then. >> the story this morning it has been difficult

by republican insiders to keep donald trump on message. are a candidate and you succeed using a particular style or tactic, you often become infatuated with that. this is what work. what worked for him was being bombastic and over-the-top. when someone tells him to completely change the way you have done it, i think it will be a hard transition. what does he need to do to turn this around? do you believe the polls, by the way? guest: i do. i am a poster. most public polls are trying to get do a data. i do not think there are many people trying to get bad stuff. is a reasonable approximate of where the public is now. host: we have seen in past campaigns, when michael dukakis had a lead, he only one code six

states and lost against george bush. things can change in the next 85 plus days? but i do notory, expect it. the difference is the consolidation of democratic support among minority voters. as that group keeps growing, and the percentage of whites continues to drop among the inctorate, there is a built advantage for democrats. to change the dynamic is what it is going to take to start getting a case where we see in august, anything could happen. romney would have had to done about 75% that are among minority voters to even get the race close. given the fact that whites are only going to make up about 70% of the electorate this go around, a means the republican candidate would have to do 84%

that are than what romney did in 2012. i do not think donald trump can in the air himself enough to minority voters to get close to that level. host: in our conversation with gary johnson, we talked about some individual states. utah is a sticky things he can make a difference in. has 21%, theng he combined vote between gary johnson and jill stein in colorado. if you look at the breakdown in these states, can they make a difference between hillary clinton or donald trump losing or winning, based on the -- what they get in the overall vote? guest: i think it will be close. if you have a lot of people -- gary johnson is hustling. he is close to getting to the debate change, which would be a change for people seeing him is that -- as a viable third option. but it gives people the opportunity to say that this

state is divided by a few thousand votes, it will make a huge difference. host: and gary johnson says if he is not in the debates, he will not win the election. said 15%. you look at him as a third-party contender. what does he need to do to get on the stage? guest: get 50%. host: how does he gather? guest: what has to happen, supporters -- mainly republicans who are not thrilled with the idea of voting for donald trump and will not vote for hillary clinton -- to basically start saying in polls that they will vote for johnson and get him to the 15% threshold. i think he should be on the stage. he is on the ballot in all 50 states. if you can pull that off, you should be on the debate, regardless of an arbitrary 15%. what is the difference if you are at 13% or 15%? any third-party candidate will have a tough go.

ross perot got a reasonable share of votes, but did not win a single state. i agree. johnson could certainly make a state like utah closer. but thinking about the states we are talking about -- this will be an electoral landslide. host: let's talk about the senate. mitch mcconnell saying it was dicey for them to keep control of the senate, as we have been talking about. 24 republicans on the ballot. that is a lot to maintain. and some of these states are ones that obama won in 2008 and 2012. what is the challenge? guest: a lot of these candidates -- and we have partners working in ohio and pennsylvania and new hampshire -- all of these candidates went in knowing they would be in a tough race. potentially the top of the ticket will not be a help. i think all of them went in no

way "i will have to pull in resources and effort that i normally would not have to," to turn out grassroots motivation, turn out voters. i think you will see all of the candidates make that effort, because they understand we may have a presidential candidate or top of the ticket or rnc that we will not be able to rely on to come to the rescue. poll showing has a donald trump at 35%. we talked to gary johnson about that. [video clip] >> let me go back to the poll numbers, where donald trump is at 35%. does that surprise you, that low number for the republican nominee? >> no. i have always maintained that donald trump alienates more than half of republicans. and republicans, for me, always miss smaller government. that is what bill weld and i are in spades.

smaller government. but on the civil liberties side, marriage equality, a woman's right to choose, legalizing marijuana, lessening our military interventions -- i think that draws on democrats. we draw equally on both sides. and no surprise. donald trump alienates republicans. host: gary johnson on c-span's "newsmakers." who does he pull from? does he pull from hillary clinton the tractors as well? guest: i was surprised, looking at the average, when you look at the two-way versus the four-way, there is a seven point reduction. as much as adding the two of them in changes things, it changes both trump and clinton losing support as people have other options. charney, --s from johnny, which says which poll

should voters trust the most? guest: i tend to look at the overall average. -- do not put any judgments. they just of the average of the polls out there. i would say get a general sense. what is the trend? also, not what is the difference, but if in virginia, clinton is winning in all six polls that came out in the last he weeks, clinton will win virginia. is it is a true swing state, you will see trump win in some and clinton win in some. stay away from the exact horserace numbers, but look at the differences, especially between white men and white women. trump has to be about six or 7%, he -- about 67 percent. he needs a 20% chance among white women to win, and right

now, he is around -1%. guest: and he at the number 2070. host: stefan hankin and brian nienaber. our sunday roundtable. we are dividing our numbers between democrats, republicans, and independents. .ou can tweet us at @cspanwj let's go to west virginia, dennis. caller: i always enjoy c-span. i was wondering about the republican strategist pollster. if you could help me. does he see the backlash that may happen after all of these voters voted for trump? have a lowcans approval rating. is there going to be a backlash theseallot, if all of

republicans keep coming out against trump? democrat over this. i am really that mad about this. i just wonder if you guys thought about that. host: thank you. guest: we certainly have. please do not do anything rash like vote democrat, but i certainly say a lot of campaigns are running this two track strategy. where senate and house ended its are focused on their own issues and local issues, and not running a campaign with trump. ultimately, i am not concerned there will be huge backlash that trump is running on one track. one thing we usually do as a party is calm -- come together. we will figure out how to move the party forward.

host: do you think donald trump can win? guest: at this stage, everyone can win. i go back to when i was a senate staffer and thinking we would win big in 1998, and i will have my pick of the jobs from the senate and house seats. and the environment turned on us, and we did not pick up a senate seat and lost house heat -- house seats. from maryland, republican line. david, good morning. about: i had a question what you think of julian assange coming out and saying that the individual in washington, d.c., the dnc staffer who was murdered, could possibly be the source of the wikileaks, instead of the russians?

host: thank you. this story has been percolating on a number of media sites. guest: there are all these crazy conspiracy theories. i did not know him personally, but i have friends who knew him. stay awayple would from this. have some respect for what happened. his family is still in mourning. this should not be seen as an opportunity to come up with the next tin foil hat theory. that we are seeing a lot of that these days, which takes us away from talking about the actual issues. host: donald trump comments about hillary clinton, second minute, and those who support the second amendment -- your reaction? as a: again, sometimes candidate, you read on things that are unfortunate. was tryingpoint he to make is a lot of people are pro-second amendment. hillary clinton is a less hardy defender of it. and that those people should

come together and make a difference. i do not think he meant to and i would never advocate that someone should take up gun violence as a solution of public policy. -- using this. here's what i look like. [video clip] >> she is one of the wealthiest women in politics. on privatehe world jets. protected by armed guards for 30 years. but she does not believe in your right to keep a gun in your own home for your own defense. an out of touch hypocrite here she leaves you defenses. fund sponsor this. guest: keep wasting your money. everyone million dollars they

spend on a presidential race is $1 million they do not spend on a senate race with a questionable outcome. and who is that ad talking to? it talks to people who will vote for trump. host: from arlington, virginia, tom is on the democrat line. good morning. caller: good morning. i appreciate if you give me a little more time during this hankin a very mr. important question. i teach politics and media in one of the colleges within the washington metro area. i have lived in this country 30 years now. i would like to ask mr. hankin, after i make my point -- mr. hankin, you have the duty to respect the american public and tell the american public the truth. first off, you have been so extremely biased, and your

responsibility is to be objective. and, to someased, extent, c-span, too. the media has done america a lot of disfavor. american people are not as smart as many people think they are. the media has even more of an important duty to educate the american public. my students, the majority of them do not even know who the governor of their states is. who the county executives are. , on tv at attack the republican party like crazy -- host: let me say this. stefan hankin is a him strategist. brian nienaber is a republican shortages. they have their own point of view. that is what we are trying to accomplish. was still, her: has the duty to tell the american people the truth. he has not been abducted. he is deceiving the american public.

even if he is a democratic pollster, he has not given any accurate information -- host: let's get a response. thet: you can go back to tape. nothing i have said here is an opinion. this is based on what the numbers are. a year and a half ago, we released but we think will be the outcomes in the presidential race in all 50 states, based on our modeling and data. if you feel that is biased, that is your opinion. we are just exposing our view on the data. from virginia, republican line, susan. thanks for being with us. caller: thanks. good morning. i have a question for both of you. on the internet, you see pictures of hillary's rallies and pictures of trump's rallies. hillary can hardly fill a high school gym. 12,000 people.g

i know the questionable factor, of hey, let's go to a trump rally and see what is going on. lot may be why he draws a of people. but is that not going to relate in november, when people are going to vote? no one is really excited about hillary. thanks and have a good day. host: thank you. this is a picture we showed earlier from the "pittsburgh post-gazette." more than 8000 people in attendance. do crowds serve as a precursor to how candidates do? guest: no. or else we would talk about bernie sanders being the candidate on the democratic side. this is similar to saying he has more twitter followers or more facebook likes. none of this makes any difference. i find it interesting that in 2008, the republican line was all over obama can do is fill a stadium, but he will not get votes, because that is not how

we do elections. now it is the opposition -- the opposite. but remember what clinton is trying to do versus what trump is trying to do our different things. is not going into base areas and trying to get up the base. she is going into swing areas and trying to persuade voters on the fence to vote for her. that type of approach does not lend itself well to large rallies. jobhas a very different ahead of her the next few months. and trump is focusing more on the bigger rallies that serve or more base voters in his events, it seems. host: we share this story from abc news. hillary clinton spending $82 million in television advertising. donald trump spending nothing so far, though his super pac spending about $11 million. what is going on here?

is this a sign that ads don't matter? guest: i think it is a sign that he feels he can get enough out thingse rallies, out of that do not involve paid advertising. fueled in large part by what happened in the primary campaign. he did not spend a lot on the media them. i think they are going with the strategy that worked for them in the primary. will be an interesting experiment of not spending as much as a traditional campaign does on paid media. what influence does it have as you move along? host: what you go from $13 million, what he received in the -- ary, a record million record, to suzy $6 million in the pratt in a general -- $266 million in the general? guest: my thinking is that in

the current financial state, they will hold back on it for later in the campaign. brian nienaber, republican strategist and pollster. and stefan hankin, a democratic shudder just and pollster. both offering their perspectives on the campaign. what are we, 85, 86? three more months until election day. election day is november 8, which is the latest it has been in a number of years. let's go to james in new york. democrat line. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for giving me this opportunity. i would like to focus my view on lying. that seems to be the biggest subject out of all. guests --th of your we can all agree that probably bernie sanders was the most honest candidate out there. but i would like to also say that hillary clinton's contributions to the global

initiative only make sense. i lost my son seven years ago. we have a scholarship in his name. i give 10%, cut up between cancer, and another contribution. then 90% of my contributions goes to my son's memorial scholarship. it only makes sense. now, on lying. hillary clinton lies about one thing. donald trump lies about everything. any man that would make fun of a handicapped man and then turn around and lie about saying "oh, -- wegroveling," when he all know he was imitating, or trying to, a handicapped man. to me, that disqualifies him right there. that is really all i have to say. thank you for the time. host: thank you.

stefan hankin? guest: i will put him in the hillary camp. --ry presidential election there are not a law to voters that are actually in between. most have made up their mind a long time ago. around 5% ofwn to the american public is truly swaying, in their pure definition. all of the stories that break about clinton's e-mails and what she says, and about trump being not the nicest guy in the world, those narratives are out there. what we are looking for is what are the stories that change the narrative or outside the narrative? e-mailher story on an about clinton is not overly concerning, and we do not expect to see numbers change. it would be something completely different. the same thing with trump. trump mocking a handicapped -- i thinkmp saying

the second amendment thing was above and beyond his usual rhetoric. but trump saying crazy things, we do not expect major movement in numbers, unless something comes out that it is bigger and different. host: this is a tweet to saying "the media does not get it. the usa is tired of ads, and the stupid d.c. beltway media." guest: that is certainly the philosophy the trump campaign is taking. taking things darkly to voters. but the experience i have in working in campaigns, ads and paid media works in a way that no other way to does. tweet saying that "props that trump is willing to engage in such a no advertising experiment shows that he is not a serious candidate?" look at how much

money was spent in 2012 and how little the polls moved from the conventions to the actual election, there is certainly argument to be made that these campaigns do not need to be spending as much, because it is not moving the numbers in a real way. we had a down to about $30 million per 1/10 of point in the polls, which is not exactly a great return on investment. what we are seeing on the clinton campaign is they are investing a lot of money in infrastructure, not just in swing states but also in blue states that are unlikely to go republican. what they seem to understand -- and this is the big worry -- is sometimes turn out veterans change and people stay home because they are fed up. that has never happened in the past, but that is the one thing that could do rail -- derail her chances of winning.

they seem to be aware of that. states're running ads in that a republican is unlikely to win, but they are looking to get people to turn out. smaller are investing a proportion of their overall bank account on media, which i think is a smart way. for trump -- it is the one thing i will say. are runningay they a smart campaign, but i do not think he needs to spend a ton on tv. a piece this sunday from the "globe and mail" in canada. "trump is finished, but trumpism is here to stay." saying that the movement he created will have a significant effect on republican party strategies ahead. guest: there is a lot of frustration.

this is the largest we have ever seen people thinking things are headed to the wrong track. there is a huge mix of things making people anxious. it is not one thing or another. i think that frustration and worries, andof being able to go out to voters and providing an optimistic view -- we cannot -- we have always been a party that has had an optimistic vision. ronald reagan and his shining city on the hill. to make the case to voters that we can get the country back on the right track. i think it will be a philosophy and strategy long after this campaign is over. line,jeff, independent virginia. you are on the air. about: i was wondering what impact these e-mail dumps

from wikileaks will have? guest: unless it is outside of the perceived norm, i do not think there will be any real effect. it would have to be something big, something different. to really change hearts and minds. if it is more of the same, i do not see -- i do not see it affecting the numbers in a meaningful way. host: stefan hankin, graduate of the university of massachusetts amherst, and brian nienaber, graduate of purdue university. we love purdue university's. we love universities. our archives are near the purdue campus. we go to charles on the republican line. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. who voted in donald trump? the people.

any republican that cannot stand to hide the people's -- that cannot stand behind the people's choice should not find the rnc's reelections. the people voted for trump and will keep voting for trump. if anyone deserves this job, it is trump. he can beat hillary and elect the judges we need to run this country. they are all upset because they will lose their funding from the special people who give them money to make their rules. host: thank you. guest: we have always been a big time party that makes decisions. this is certainly a more divisive year than others. but when you look at how important it is to have senate and house members supporting

republican views, if you are not ready to go out and stand arm in arm with the presidential -- this is selling not the first time this has happened. andave seen it with bush other candidates, in places where they were less popular and candidates went their own way. the other side of running a two track strategy. host: this from politico. mike pence saying his tax returns will be a quick read. hillary clinton and tim kaine releasing there is friday. will this make a difference? guest: it will make a difference hashat it will show pence finances more in line with the average american. it was striking for me for hillary clinton to release her tax returns and say i have made it shows she, and

made $10.6 million on paid speeches and things beyond the pale of anyone who makes a regular income. and certainly making $10 million a year is beyond the reach of most voters in america. and say iare open understand the problems i read where people, when you have made way more money than anyone else in ways that most people cannot wait -- make, i do not think that does a lot. host: there is this tweeted -- "steve, live me up with a boilermaker." [laughter] host: we are going to get in trouble. let's go to austin, texas. roland is on the phone, republican line. with stefan hankin, graduate of the university of massachusetts. [laughter] is strangere truth than fiction, how do we know that in -- the clintons, who

have received multimillion dollars from countries all around the world into the clinton foundation, how do we know trump is not bought off by the clintons? they used to be friends. she went to his wedding. or something like that. how do we know that they did not offer a deal -- they met secretly. "e clintons and trump and set "hey, look, we will try to make you president, but when it comes to the nitty-gritty, you will mess up in order to make me win, and you will receive multimillion dollars as well." it is a conspiracy theory, but what is the possibility? i have never heard anyone bring up the possibility that they are all in it? is a do you think that viable theory and could be

orchestrated the way it has been thus far? caller: i do think that, based upon hillary's ability to receive money from very many people around the world that they probably thought about it trumplk to -- talked to before everything happened and said let's strike a deal. we know you are a billionaire, trump, but you will get more areions from us once we in office, because we will let you off the hook. host: do you believe that? ,aller: i think it is a theory and it is a very good possibility that trump is bought and gethe will get paid protection from the clintons.

host: we will get your reaction. guest: as a political junkie, i love conspiracy theories. this is what i have seen. who is evenne peripherally aligned with how hard it is to be a presidential candidate, the long hours, the fundraising -- to imagine someone would do this as a favor or without the intention of thinking they will win, this is very unlikely. has a tweet. "tinfoil hat caller." thank you. let's go to june in the field, florida. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. host: thank you for joining us. caller: i would like to ask the gentleman who is for hillary clinton one question. i would love to have him tell me the truth, because i have been

between thend forth campaigners. a she a muslim, and if not, why girl atnot appraise the the olympics, yet she did the muslim girl? i just need to know, because it seems to me like the muslims are striving -- are starting to take over our united states. and people around in town in florida, we have to be very careful. we are talking about letting them come into the schools to pray.our children to as christians, we are not allowed to do that. i would like for him to please explain it to me and to be truthful for once. because a lot of things that hillary has said has comeback and bit her. host: thank you. guest: i will go with no on the

muslim thing. our "first"e we had muslim president in barack obama, the next -- no. this week, donald trump outlined his economic agenda. thursday, hillary clinton responded with her agenda. both are online on c-span.org. this is the hillary clinton campaign responding to the trump economic plan. [video clip] ♪ s> this analysis that moody' has out, saying donald trump's economic analysis will cause the economy to be significantly weaker. >> the wages too high, we will not be able to compete against the world.

i am the king of debt. i love debt. i love dad. i love playing with it. i would borrow, knowing if the economy crashed, you could make a deal. >> you brought in foreign workers, instead of hiring americans. your company may factors in china. be great.plan will we'll have a dynamic economy again. they talk like i will give a tax increase. i am not. >> the biggest beneficiaries are the .1% when it comes to rod dollars -- raw dollars that will be saved. >> your proposed tax cut would $10$10 trillion dad -- add trillion to the u.s. debt. ♪ clinton 1992, the

campaign saying "it is the economy, stupid." how will the economy play out this year, for those americans who feel they are doing well and for middle class americans who feel they are getting the shaft? guest: it is always a big piece of the puzzle. i think we are seeing it, up -- come up a lot, but in a different way then in 1992. we are seeing a lot of folks who supporters strongly tenind trump -- are of in areas -- i think the "new york times close vote --- "new york times" did a piece on it, where kids will have a tough time succeeding their parents, economically. and those are in line with

donald trump. it is a very different dynamic than what we saw in 1992. the economy always factors in. we have also moved into a place where the hyper partisanship is at a level where these elections are incredibly predictable, and few people change because of an out side dynamic. host: but republicans critical thate campaign saying there are a large people out of the workforce, and you have a record number of people receiving federal assistance. how do you respond? how does the hillary clinton campaign respond? 'sest: by showing trump statements over the years. clearly, our economy is shift doing and is moving further away from a manufacturing-based economy into a high-tech economy.

and there will still be manufacturing, but a different type. therly, there are areas in country there are adversely affected by that. what i think -- what we are hearing from the clinton campaign and when she is in ohio talking tovania, is the people in industries moving away and talking about how will we soften that blow? and we will hear obviously a different message when she is in california or silicon valley or places like that, where the companies are at the front end of the movement of the economy. it depends where you are of how this is having an effect. it is interesting how some of these swing states have manufacturers where they she has moved away. coal plants -- where the industry has moved away. coal plants are moving away. it will be interesting to see how both candidates juggle that

juxtaposition. host: donald trump looking at new york, pennsylvania, ohio, indiana, saying these are states where there are a lot of towns that have been hurting because jobs have been moving out. can donald trump win new york? is a viable, given what is going on in upstate new york? guest: it seems like a longshot, but as we have been talking lot voters, are a especially in places like upstate new york, last seen underemployment. and for someone to come along and say i think we can do something different and turn the family-run economically, those sort of issues make a difference. host: what about pennsylvania and ohio? guest: i think there is the same thing. there are places where you

really see these sort of blue-collar, working-class voters who have had a rough go the last 10 years. caseould make a compelling in making federal government being your ally and not your enemy. i think there is the potential to turn those voters. host: is ohio a must win state for donald trump? every historically, republican who has won the presidency wins ohio. police is joining us from hollywood, democrat line. caller: good morning. there are two reasons i am glad trump has run. i am glad he ran to expose to the country that such a super byagogue could be elected such a tremendous majority

the second thing i'm glad of because i am a floridian -- and gl i'm glad that he annihilated marco rubio. i do not think marco rubio is a good senator for the state of florida. host: thanks for a call. response? i'm not on the murphy camp. everything i've seen publicly, he should win this with little room to spare. host: november? guest: clearly i would say the number advantage is to the democrats to the seats that the republicans are defending this year. bit flips and 2018 and it's very ugly for democrats. i think it is 25 or 26 seats that democrats will have to defend in two years.

even if democrats have a great night on november 8, 77 senate seats they may went, which is a far cry from 60. what makes me nervous as a democratic strategist is that in the next couple weeks, trump is viewed as pretty much unelectable. of have the kelly ayottes the world going out there and saying, trump is not going to win. do you really want a democratic senate in there with hillary clinton in the white house? back to washington and work with hillary, but i will make sure she does not run whatever she wants to the senate. i think that becomes a very powerful argument for a lot of voters. but iot vote for trump, do not like the idea of democrats in charge of everything again. that is what scares me. by labor day, trump is viewed unelectable and then senate

candidates on the republican side can make a compelling sending themsentimen back. host: we will be covering results on the c-span networks and the debates taking place in late september. waynesboro, virginia, republican line. caller: i have a question and then i would like to make a comment. i watched both conventions from start to finish and it is interesting at the democratic convention that they play the video tape of chelsea and the vodka trump, long time -- ivanka trump, longtime best friends. why would the democrats have that video? host: your comment? caller: i think we are all being set up by the superrich. i think the man from texas is

correct. ran because ivanka wanted her best friend's mother to be president. ther relationship with clintons at their wedding, that was not just a photo shoot. that was arm in arm best buddies. if donald trump really wanted to kasich asuld taken vice president, guaranteeing him ohio. it's no surprise hillary clinton picked tim kaine. she thinks it guarantees her virginia. i think we all need to vote for gary johnson. i have never voted for a third-party, but i will actively work for him. i think he is the only hope we have got. host: thanks for call. gary johnson is our guest for the c-span "newsmakers" program.

do you want to respond? guest: i know this is a common conspiracy theory, but it is unlikely that there some secret coalition between clinton and trump for both of them to run. suggest that being a virginia resident, i think the government would take umbrage with thinking that anyone other than him was a closer friend to the clinton. host: democrats line, good morning. caller: good morning. i would just like to say that i've been a democrat and everybody here that i've talked to and around the votes, we are going to vote for donald trump. donald trump is going to try to the state that we are not going to be living in poverty. ever since obama has been in there, they have shut everything down.

our schools are in trouble. our states are in trouble. people are out of jobs and everything else. i hope -- people need millions in west virginia. the man came there a while ago about hillary clinton shutting down all these minds and laying off the miners. over 20 in the mines something years and make good money. we need to get our state back on track again. thank you. host: who are you going to vote for them? n? caller: i'm voting for donald trump. that is west virginia, estate barack obama did not win in 2012. guest: i will say that hillary clinton will not win west virginia. host: let's go to nancy and overton, texas. caller: good morning.

just look at the economy out there. just look at the corruption of this government and i mean from the top down. should be put in front of a firing squad for espionage. people are looking at her like she will say this country. she's not going to save it. all she will do is pocket more money. put outn't the media there what her funds are for? it is not for our country. it is for her. the corruption and this government -- i got a sister-in-law an and houston. she says she is quitting this year. she has her master's degree in everything. you know my niece graduated and she cannot find a job a year later?

this is pathetic. the democrats have destroyed this country. why can't people see this? we need four more years of this? host: ok. your final point, nancy? caller: we need trump anin there. he is a businessman and will align himself with nothing but the best for the country. host: let me take her comment and some of the previous callers and ask about the passion on both sides. you can sense her anger at the establishment and hillary clinton with her support for donald trump. we are seeing it on the other side as well. is it any different than previous election cycles? guest: it does seem like there is a lot more passion. trump going tof be us as a party talking more about dealing with economic anxieties and having a government that works for them

in the country getting back on the right track? i think you saw that with the calls that there is a lot of people out there frustrated and anxious and feel like there are not solutions out there. that turns people into very passionate supporters of candidates who seem to have those kinds of solutions. host: let me take you back to this pennsylvania rally. the chairman of the rnc, reince priebus, with these comments. >> we had a tied election in spite of the biased media. this man is going to win. he's going to save our country. is going to put us back to work again, put more money in people's pockets. [applause] we are in a battle for freedom. that is why we are here. we are in a battle for freedom. that jamesame battle madison reaffirmed what the bill of rights, the same battle that

sounded our country, and it is the same battle that we are here today to fight. host: breaking news on fox and the chairman of the rnc reaffirming his support for donald trump. is it news when the chairman of the republican party says he is supporting his nominee? guest: we have had an unusual primary cycle and it was anxiety of it trump will take direction or work better with the rnc? when we look at that rally, those discussions have gone pretty but. well. host: you are laughing. guest: it's always fun when the other party is having a worse go of it than your own. it's going to be fascinating is how does the republican party recover and come together after this election if it plays out the way we think it's on to play out? a lot of the supporters of donald trump are not only haters of hillary clinton, but they are haters of the "establishment" in the republican party.

and that's where a lot of his boat was coming from in the primaries. how do recover -- if trump gets his clock cleaned, how do you recover from that? how do you have the ability t o the sort of rational people in charge pushing them message forward while also keeping voters like that inside the tent. how does donald trump go down? much, orank you very does he try to blow the place up on the way out. as a democrat i will be fascinated to watch how this plays out come november. overallyou think the voter turnout will be daniel of humble, texas on the independent line. brian.tion is for if the public continues to play out like this and the

republicans continue to be on the wrong side of the minority -- you combine that with 2012 election of mitt theey is a say fisher in republican party? will they try to do something different? a good question. i think they probably will do that. ahead, as a party we have been good coming together after the election, and making changes. ultimately we make messages about individual freedom and taxes. rings that should be appealing in a broad-based way. sometimes we get stuck around policies and words and don't get that out. there will be a re-examination.

it will be a time to sort of figure out what is a better way .e can make our case to voters we have some ideas that will help us move ahead economically. host: rosie, on the democrat line. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i would like -- i am a democrat and i will vote for hillary. i would like to direct my comment question to brian. first of all, i would like to day for donald trump to reveal his taxes. intent and confident that he will bring jobs to america, why doesn't he move his factories that make shirts and mexico back to the united states? i'll take my answer off the air.

thank you. my understanding about releasing taxes is a voluntary thing. moving his factory back, one of the interesting i think he has stepped away from the business. to makebe much harder big decisions about his business at a time where he is also making big decisions about his presidential campaign. will be much harder than it has been in the past to make big decisions during a time when he is working around-the-clock. host: corey lewandowski is from dee onl massachusetts, the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning steve. percent ofsetts, 65

the state legislature valid pollution -- positions are opposed by republicans. .here are nine congress seats republicans aren't expected to compete in one of them. five of them are unopposed, no republican on the ballot. the convention 18 out of 2000 -- 2400 delegates were african-american. trump has 1% african-american. when george w. bush was winning he was getting 10% african-american. it's right there for republicans but they haven't given an offer. also, we don't want to hear this

washington stuff. we want to hear what are you going to do for the kitchen table. i was in cleveland. you see somebody rides around in these big suvs and staff. do for the american people. forget all this other stuff. they certainly have a -- this is a state that can we can be competitive in. the business of being a political party is a difficult thing. sometimes you have cycles or you don't do as well. as a republican candidate gets out there and hustles on the kitchen table issues and makes a compelling case for massachusetts, we didn't find those kind of people.

what is interesting is governor romney compared to presidential candidate romney. -- republicans can win statewide office in massachusetts. it is a type of republican that can win is very different than what tends to be at the top of the ticket nationally. no democrat will win north dakota on the presidential level. had what icans -- what didery good they broket -- where down what happened in the election and i read this from cover to cover and i was scared. they understood the problem. they ignored every single word

in the document but at some point in time the republicans will i would assume start listening to what they now are the problems, and then these things can become competitive again. problem where massachusetts has nine out of nine members who are democrats. in the state that is more like a 60-40 state. ohio is this swing state but a state like texas, for democrats. partisanreated very districts. we have moved into areas where it is becoming- harder to bridge divides and come to a consensus. that is a big problem on the state and the federal level. amongoverall turnout

registered voters, what are we looking at right now? it's tough to pinpoint the number. we saw a high water mark in 2008. i think we will be about their again. think will be different this sheer is i think we might see a lower drop off from the top of the ticket to the bottom. guest: i think it would be in line with that. turnout,idential level and other things will energize voters and get those presidential voters will be coming up as much as ousted. brian nienaber and stefan hankin , thank you both. we have more road to the

white house coverage later today when hillary clinton and vice president biden hold a joint appearance in mr. biden's hometown of scranton, pennsylvania. we will bring it to you live at 12 35 eastern on c-span. this afternoon donald trump, he will talk about for policy today in speech in youngstown, ohio. you can watch a live 2:00 p.m. eastern on c-span two. and in north carolina mark sanford who initially endorsed ted cruz is now calling on donald trump to release his tax returns. the former south carolina governor wrote an op-ed in yesterday's new york times to that effect. about randas a story paul's democratic opponent lexington mayor jim gray. if there if elected mr. gray would become the first openly gay member of the senate. tonight the communicators

visits middle eastern broadcast next -- networks. connick with brian president of the middle east broadcasting network friend and digitaler of -- managing editor of racial voice about how they shared democratic values with an audience that would not otherwise be exposed to a broader spectrum of opinions. >> we have been on the air for 12 years and over that. of time i think the audience has come to learn that it is not propaganda. we do strive to be balanced. but we also provide public topics and information that is not readily available. peopleren't enough telling the stories of how difficult it is to be a woman and a girl child. and how many stories have we done on child marriage years, i can't count your you cannot do enough because you are not

telling that story. it is too close to home. in september 2015 to encourage people in the middle east to engage and be part of the discussion of partisan issues in the region, women's rights, finance, all these that are important. tonight communicators at 8:00 eastern on c-span two. the george w. bush presidential center hosted an event in early june will bring the code surprise contender. one of the discussions focused on presidents and poverty. it includes a bush white house to mystic policy advisor, the director of the lbj library and journalists from the washington post said dallas morning news and the panel also talked about

the rise in heroin use in the country. this runs one hour 20 minutes. >> thank you. thank you and welcome back. we have an exciting panel ahead of us. first i want to say on behalf of the lbj foundation, what a pleasure it is to be a partner in this incredible opportunity to celebrate the pulitzer prize centennial. thank you to kevin and her team. here.l welcome you all it will be a treat. tois appropriate for me introduce the next panel, the president in poverty, the light --t never in spirit lbj's medicare medicaid, my pages are sticking together. job corps and more. it unfortunately it is a fight that never and's and is my

privilege to introduce our pastor moderator. a lie -- is a national reporter for the washington post. in 2014 he won the pulitzer prize for his reporting on the prevalence of food stamps in postrecession america, and issues of poverty and dependency. lettersso the author of , the stories americans tell the president in which he created portraits of the lives of 10 citizens who corresponded with president obama about their personal struggles with everything from health care to immigration to war. sharon grigsby, director of the dallas morning news project that want the pulitzer prize for editorial writing in 2010. this ongoing project called bridging dallas's north-south gap has since its launch in 2007 on innovative ways to lift up

the southern half of the dallas region. this region is larger than the city of atlanta. this is after generations of still seven -- systemic neglect. miss grigsby was an editor on the national desk and directed local news features and religion bridgeland isjohn the founder and ceo of civic enterprises and cochair of the service year alliance of the austin institute to make a year of national service a common expectation for all 18 and 19-year-olds. he is also co-convener of -- nation, and that achieving a graduation rate of 90% by 2020. and vice chair of malaria no more. mr. bridgeland served in the bush administration as the director of domestic policy council and u.s. freedom corps. growth is the director

of the lbj presidential library in austin, texas. an analyst for the abc news on matters related to u.s. politics and the presidency. mark has a continues to write four cup -- countless publications. eugene robinson is a columnist and former assistant managing editor of the washington post. he won the 2009 pulitzer prize for his commentary and columns on national politics and the election of president barack obama. earlier he covered the trials of publishing heiress patty hearst for the san francisco chronicle and served as a foreign correspondent in buenos aires, argentina and london. please join me and welcoming our palace and moderator for president and poverty, the fight that never ends. [applause]

>> thank you so much and good morning, everybody. it is great to be here. thanks for turning out. povertypresidents and it really gives the fight that seems never to end. to pick the starting point. i thought we would begin, mark sent you are the director of the obg library to let's begin with lbj. certainly in my lifetime, i most associate with the war on poverty, simply because he launched the war on poverty. mark, tell the stage us a little bit about the war on poverty and about president johnson, and how this came to be so important to him and what he

was trying to do. up presidential biographer, although i have not wanted pulitzer prize. -- 18 pulitzer prize. but presidents andt their backgrounds, you try to find out a crucible, a turning point in their lives. you do that as a storyteller. it is cinematic. his theodore roosevelt, wife and mother die on the same day. franklin roosevelt gets polio, john f. kennedy goes to war. you find these moments. it cameon johnson between his junior and senior years in college when he left what is now texas state university, in order to earn the money to go back and finish his

education. he teaches at a small mexican american school in south central texas. he sees through the eyes of these mexican american children poverty and bigotry and hatred for the first time in his life. he grew up in central texas. he grew up in johnson city, texas, a small time and he had not seen the plight of people of color. it has a searing effect on his mind and his imagination. he goes to the washington -- washington during the depression and he sees what government can do to lift up the poor and downtrodden. when he becomes president, he knows how power works and he doesn't forget those mexican american school kids. his first year in the white

ofse after the assassination john f. kennedy, he aims at the eradication of poverty. at his first state of the union address, he declares unconditional war on poverty in our country. it is a remarkable thing. here is this man who spent almost his whole adult life towards the acquisition of power. but hasn't earned the presidency in his own right. he is willing to talk about an issue, to bring front and center an issue that is no more prominent than it is in today's america. to level theaim playing field. he initiates this war on poverty at a time when between a fifth and a quarter of all americans are living below the poverty line. while many scholars look at the war of poverty itself and the

laws that fall under -- in that category, you have to look at the panoply of the programs because so many of them are deceptively about poverty, although not extensively. medicare, nearly one third of all americans over 65 live in poverty unable to afford the most basic and health care. voting rights was about ensuring the african-americans 40% of the lived under the poverty line had politicians in their court making difference. all of those things relate in so many ways to the eradication of poverty. reaganng is that ronald said in or infamously his 1987 state of the union address when he was talking

about the dangers of big government, we had a war on poverty but in fact if you look at the statistics the war on poverty was remarkably effective . --went from 22% of early poverty level 213%. during go down to 11% richard nixon's administration using the policy of johnson. it really does indicate how we can make a concerted difference in eradicating an enormous problem although i do think around the world already is a war we can never truly win. you are never going to see poverty of 0% in a capitalist society. i took a brief to her through the figures, too, and it is clear that the war of harvey did reduce the poverty rate

substantially. it did go down to 11% and then it started to creep up again. it is 16% or 17% now. it will be lower by some measures. reporters frankly in the world who's doing the best job of chronicling poverty today is eli. despite these decades of the war almost alland indeed the programs that were established in the war on poverty are still in effect. food stamps and medical are -- medicare and headstart are basically still around. ofpite that, there is a lot poverty by some measures. isy people believe it increasing. tell us about your reporting and

tell us about what you see. work in this niche of journalism where i go out and i spend time embedded in people's lives as they are dealing with these issues. or two weeks sometimes more following them around through their lives to get a sense of what it is like area i think one of the things that is easy to forget when we look at the national data is that people who live in poverty feel -- and it. i just came back from reporting that forana, a town generations have been mostly middle class 85% middle-class, people worked on the line and they made 18-$20 an hour. just this month ago carrier announced they were closing the

last good plant in this town. the last 800 good jobs were going. this is a town now that is down from being 85% middle-class to being 45% poor. that's not an uncommon story right now in america. for the first time ever, the percentage of the country that's middle-class has dropped below 50%. some of these people have moved up and a lot have moved on. many more feel on the edge of moving down. is a much of poverty more real thing for a lot of people in the country. it affects finances. i think we are beginning to understand more and more were it affects everything. feel aboutple hopefulness about their lives. the other statistic that staggers me is for the first time ever more than half of

americans think their children will be worse off than they will. it is a level of despair that affects so much of this conversation right now. it is something i encounter on every reporting trip. places likego to that town in india -- indiana, tell us a bit more about the feeling that you get. the stories convey almost a and aof hopelessness, lassitude and passive a t in the face of circumstances that seem to be coming from people from all sorts of directions. especially people who have lived in poverty for a long time and they begin to feel disenfranchised. chance to improve things in their life. there is a huge disconnect on

both sides. like president johnson learned so much from spending six months having thatis life experience. that doesn't happen overnight. , certainly people who are poor are my pecan pork feel like the people who are in charge of fixing those problems have no idea what their lives are like. they don't know what their lives the --e to be washing towards the inns of the month. they are relying on different social services all the time. there isthem feel like no hope of a solution because the people in charge don't understand the problems in the day to day slow and steady encroachment poverty. spend a lot of time on

.our stories and in communities frankly the washington post can afford to have a reporter do that. one thing that concerns me about the all conversation and nation's ability to have this conversation and the media's ability to facilitate this conversation or bring up the manyct is that so journalists in the media centers areashington and new york living in a bubble. a bubble of affluence a bubble of education, a bubble that's removed from the daily lives of so many americans. if you are successful in journalism in washington, you are better than middle-class,

you're doing really well. it cost so much to live there so you better be. the city is justified to the extent where you go to work and go home and you don't have to see a single whole person. -- cool person. if that's what you're commuting corridor now you don't see any more people. they have been push towards the periphery, in the corner of the which ishe southeast the next frontier of gentrification. soon they will be in her prince george's county.

washingtonpening in and happening in other cities as well as i think it makes a difference, because we don't see it we don't think about it. we don't write about it. this inyou work at dallas about the north-south era tell us about the north south divide in dallas and what it is made of. >> the newspaper made a commitment nine years ago now to on the lot of attention southern half of our city, which historically has been underserved, underreported on included by our own new -- newspaper. about better explain

what this part of town needs. really to be the voice for an area that has on traditionally been ignored. i've had the privilege to direct the project since we started in 2007. it's an editorial project. we tried to be very solution-based. ,hen i was preparing for this anyone who knows me will tell you that i am idealistic. you have to be to do this is likebecause poverty a grinding, relentless problem that we will never solve, but we can keep working toward that. i was struck i all the outrage about this silverback gorilla

who was killed at the cincinnati zoo. the outrage and the noise about that was so huge. i thought to myself because i was thinking about poverty at the same time is, just a fraction of that outrage and that call to action could be focused on the kids in your community who are going to bed hungry tonight. we might be on our way to solving something. that is idealistic, but i think it is something of an editorial department that we have to stay focused on if we are truly going to try to help people and try to and them tell their stories get the government to quit ignoring them. a lot of times is really specific issues. which part of the city has grocery stores, which part of

the city has chaos. callabout whether you can 311 and get a problem taken care the illegalor dumping start to you is going to sit there for a year or more. it can be something just as pernicious as help with your ad net services. ,hose are the kind of problems when you live in a part of town that has been ignored and been under served you begin to be so beaten down by that. the only way that changes is for us to be that voice, exposing the problem and pushing that. >> when you shine a light on these problems does it help? it does.

our project is obviously very focused on dallas. is -- it's important to know that it is not lack and white. southern dallas is all poor and northern dallas all affluent. it is much more mix. there are many more pockets of poverty in southern dallas. whether it was my former colleague bill can -- bill mckenzie wrote about in regards to group homes, these are halfway court -- halfway houses of sorts. bill wrote extensively about those and city ordinances changing. another of my colleagues wrote about payday lending. that led because of jim mitchell's writing to ordinances changed.

most recently, i focused attention on dog problem and the quality of light -- life and challenges for people who can't walk and they can't run and can't let the kids go to school alone. that has caused some shakeups and may have contributed to changes at city hall. but it just happened this past week. you just have to keep pushing. haveat's great to optimistic notes. john, you worked in the bush administration. i want to go back into the oval office for a second. i had a few problems with george w. bush.

wasthing i never doubted the certain sort of compassion poor and a sense that you had a responsibility toward and trying toric net it together. and in that way -- is that an accurate reading? in a modernoverty age, not in the lbj era but in the bush era, a time of not unlimited resources. and with a republican mind set and values. >> people think that leaders from different parties to work together. joe colophon of the johnson

administration invented the job that i held. because nobody trained you the first person i called was joe colophon out and we became very good friends. he said we led a war on poverty with five people. you have 10 times the resources. what will you be able to do? and -- george bush, when i saw him on the campaign trail, it was his first major public policy speech. i was asked to moderate an event in cincinnati. it formally was a crack house and had been redone into an interfaith center that treats subs gents abuse. -- substance abuse. receivedoes this center federal funding? yes it does.

and at provide choice secular counterpart? yes, governor. he was very attuned to the role of government, limited but effective. these safe and community-based healers at the neighborhood he you briefed whatat us for questions, is the evidence that this program works? what's the goal and one of the name ofthe that person and i want him sitting me -- sitting right here. finally how are we going to be accountable? the president and the administration did have a comprehensive agenda. it was driven strongly by what the evidence showed.

the food stamp program started under the jobs administration not only provides access to food , we learned that because of a study that was enabled because the program is rolled out in different arts of the country at different times, those who had access to food stamps had an 18 percentage point higher rate of high school graduation. which brought a lot of republicans into the fold. this wasn't just about a safety net but a springboard to opportunity and prosperity. thatnk the boldest move the president did during his administration with no just -- the mastic constituency is he started the president's emergency plan for aids relief and the president's malaria initiative. with a rate lock them -- congress,- republican he proposed to spend billions of

dollars. just yesterday we did the latest calculation and 5.8 million lives have been saved from malaria in sub-saharan africa since he launched that in 2005. that was extraordinary and i what ahance to tell him ridiculous political figure he was one of the best things any president ever initiative for southern africa and it saved millions of lives. johnson's -- johnson's act on poverty was an act of political kurds. when bill the columnist from

the washington post, he retired , he the from his column wanted to do something to give back to the small mississippi community where he was born. very small and overwhelmingly black. very poor community. program called baby steps. andid his research reporting. his conclusion was that the biggest bang for the buck he could have was in early childhood education. structured the program. he discovered -- he ran into some unexpected circumstances. he discovered that it wasn't

inugh to instruct parents how to read to their young children in order to get them , because in many households there were no adults who could really competently do that in a way that help the children. we've -- he found he needed a physical setting where children from those households -- he also found he had to do a much more extensive assessment of the needs of the household than he thought he needed to do. that there were health issues that had to be addressed and families and among the children themselves. he ended up having -- adding a health component to the program. and it kept adding components.

he was a famous columnist so he , the call up foundations kellogg foundation i think if him money. other foundations responded. grants sow to write he managed to raise great sums of money for a very small community. it certainly had impact, but to think of replicating that nationwide is daunting. solution -- is anything big enough to attack poverty except government? through 1000e points of life -- light? what do thing mark? >> i will defer to the experts.

i have the privilege of being the only republican in on the council for -- president obama. i did have the opportunity to go into 41 communities across the u.s., where the president charged us to look at these impact models. 339government right now has through agencies that spend $224 billion a year to help the 15 million done people at risk of not reaching productive adulthood. that's a lot of money. in 41 communities we saw these familywhere nurse partnership's, where the mondor

-- mothers nurses going to their home with expectant mothers and they help with the baby and their own wellness. the outcomes are stunning. all the way through the employment of these millionities for 6.7 people in the u.s. who are 16-24 and are disconnected from school and work. they cost taxpayers $93 billion in year. if you're not compelled by the moral case, these models are working. these school districts, local, state governments. what about the federal funding streams that can be used more efficiently to actually help those people that they need on the ground. we have reduce by about one million those who have been disconnected under president obama's leadership. what about the fact that the

economic dislocations, the very slow and too many people in perceptible pace of the recovery , the collapse in disappearance of the manufacturing sector. the things that how a lot the towns that you spend a lot of time since, eli, seem to be adding people to the ranks of the poor. including people who have no experience acting poor. is that something you see? >> yes. and a lot of these communities we have two levels of dependency. one is that people in these communities are dependent, largely on the food stamp program which has grown to $80 billion a year program, nearly

50 million americans rely on at which has a huge percentage of children. people need that money on the first of the month, but also in a town that is in itself broke where 40 percent or 50% of the residents are food stamp, the town is dependent on that once a month surge of federal money that comes into the town. i spent time in these towns on the first of the month, which is often what everybody receives their food stamp benefit. it is a one time economic surplus, a stimulus charge in those towns. i was in a town in rhode island where the first of the month on the bank marquee they would run the sign of the marquee, enjoy the first of the month, happy shopping. and grocery stores would sell

maybe a thousand dollars in product on the last day of the month and would sell $15,000 on the first of the month. they would hire people to come in and work on the first week of the month because that's when people would come in and spend. this new cycle of the economy where people are depending on that money. it's easy to get discouraged when you realize it doesn't fix everything. poverty is huge. it comes that she in different ways. i spent time writing about president obama, even the government puts a lot of money and resources into trying to solve this, but no one problem solve everything. they put money into the fatherhood initiative, two to 10

how to help their kids in addition to other stuff. , where time in milwaukee there was a guy named paul gale who signed up for this class. onre was 17 lessons improving your child's life. the lessons were great and the program was great. in the neighborhood where he lives compared to the next county over, just by being born there is dollar had a 15% higher .hance of dying and child birth a higher chance to be poor. it is easy from a policy standpoint to look at this and say it is not fixable.

willart of the initiative not fix it. it doesn't mean that it doesn't help some of those things. wax -- >> it has to be enter mental then. --?on, eli is right, no one program will do it all. what you are referencing earlier is really about flooding the zone. the harlem children's network does it really well. dallas, where the mayor has a new program in which dogsber of different top with the school district, with county government, was social services, all sitting on a board of sorts. they have hired a g -- general manager with private funding into these neighborhood, to

break through a lot of the red it -- thatakes contributes to your being poor. it is so much more difficult to live when you are poor. you need transportation and health care, everything. so you have all sorts of flooding the zone efforts here theallas, which is part of grassroots effort. we see it in the schools, some of the empty schools in dallas converted into self-service facilities where you can get everything from job training to health care. does something similar, and opportunities center area i think all of those programs list up what the government is doing and help educate everybody about the

problem. i think the biggest issue -- again i speak specifically to does the cityel want us to put our money into big projects, big shiny things. those are important. like living in a food desert, those aren't as 26- to fix.-- people to want to make everything better. this conference is about the presidency. the best way to generate the and's generate a

spotlight is through the bully pulpit. platform, at has a means of getting a message out. if i'm president, whoever he or she is, can make it a moral crusade. when lbj took the presidency in his first year after taking over john f. kennedy, launch the war on poverty. he also use the market down of dumb,y to -- march you knowing he would do it at his potential political peril. he wanted to earn the presidency in his own right. then try to pass the civil rights act in 1965. johnson looks in and says, what presidency for? if you can't do something to

gain momentum on the issues that matter, what is this office for? whoink that there is nobody can do more about poverty than the president. say moralwould persuasion with evidence and data. if you go to the american enterprise institute or brookings, if you graduate high a childwait to have until you are married and get a job at an age of 21 your chances of living in poverty in the u.s. are 2%. if you do none of those things your chances of living in poverty are 78%. interesting, a graduation rate of 98%. advice 20's was get outside of the beltway.

what is the reality on the ground? in a national survey of high because ofouts, and their voice and their perspective of what they told us it has huge implications for public policy. it awakened the nation that most of these young people are potential to be fulfilled and the vast majority could make it. 50% of the dropouts were found in just 15% of the schools. enabling a targeted and fixable -- like an engineering problem. you could actually fix it in those places in the country. because of the public private hardships, 2 million more students have graduated from high school rather than dropping out. with good leadership and constituencies on the ground, we can localize communities to get

the job done. about's talk for a minute there is a campaign going on. we have two likely candidates. candidate talks about poverty to a certain extent but talks more about the middle class and more about helping the middle class. that would be hillary clinton. the other candidate, i think his solution -- i am somewhat projecting here -- would be -- poverty for everyone to attend trump university. we would be a nation of millionaires and we would when so much we would be tired of winning. is anyone hopeful? about the use of the bully pulpit in the way you are talking about a national debate

about party? >> i think the last presidential candidate who actively campaigned for the presidency talking about the need to eradicate poverty was bobby kennedy. it is not a popular issue. standpoint,ical talking about the expansion of , allowing forss opportunity is a smart way to go. i'm not sure it's a smart political tactic to talk about it eradicate in poverty. i am speaking as about -- as a political tactician. whether this is wise, what they are talking about is creating

jobs, getting the economy moving again. offering the middle class a more robust existent. -- existence. your agenda can change. you can focus on something again like poverty and make a difference. perhapsnk that especially in our soundbite they poverty may not be a winning issue, but education is to education is one of those examples where of course everybody cares. everybody has a state and it. it is the single most determine it, whether you are going to have a better than decent existence. what is so chilling about this campaign is that given at least

,rom the soundbites of trump about immigration in this country and the fact that the education of minority students particularly or latino students is probably the single biggest determinant in this country's future. and whether or not we will have weuture, but i worry that don't spend enough time, we don't hear time spent on how we are going to improve them. i think the obama administration has done a good job with the issue of resegregation. in dallas, there is talk about breaking down resegregation and choice schools. charters are coming in and doing something about that.

issue. a serious the country becomes more hispanic then like building a wall is not the education solution. >> i definitely agree. if trial popppens -- trump is our president? >> i might not be allowed to live in this country anymore so who knows. students forty of the first time in history are minority. in equal had a stake opportunity. residential --e and clinton, ohio, that used to be you had nixon, and young

people who went with different backgrounds going to the same school. you can always say that the children were going to do better than their parents. you cannot say that anymore. reported on this catalyst or around the country that there is almost no energy at the national level. in communities, all across the country, there are these organic efforts emerging to address it. they are very hopeful. ryan, who many view as the leader of the republican party today, is running out -- going out in this quiet manner and visiting programs and communities across the country that are helping the poor and needy. i think he is starting to come forward with a lot of high partisan energy with criminal justice reform and issues that matter in terms of moving the agenda. -- the agenda.

>> one thing i would be interested in hearing -- i think, part of this from spending time in indiana, the campaign -- the solution to the stuff is very complex. if it was easy, we would have solved it. and thely in a campaign way our new cycle moves now. we do not necessarily have a good face for these solutions. what happens is that it becomes a lot easier to mimic or pander levelnect on an emotional , which i think donald trump has been very successful in doing in places like rural indiana. he is not necessarily been proposing solutions, but saying that he identifies with that situation of being disillusioned. it works. that is an easier thing to providing a then great policy on how we can fix minority education in the united

states. i wonder, in campaigns and presidencies, how do you use the bully pulpit to translate the conversation into something more productive. >> we would never put governor bush out to an event that he more connect with vulnerable constituencies and not have a policy. >> are -- our pre-trump abuse -- >> yes, you use to have a policy. that is what you used to do. you would believe in policy, first of all. that is kind of why you are running. you wanted to make things better. you believe that policy was going to do it. that it was not just all about feeling and slogans.

maybe i am being optimistic. one thing that everybody agrees on is that, if you have more robust economic growth, it would be a lot easier. property by a certain extent would increase on its own. you have resources to attack that issue in this and that. economy in at the places like red town, indiana or wherever, there are so many people that have fallen into the working core. who can worke full-time at walmart and still need food stamps. those good paying manufacturing jobs do not exist anymore.

i always think of michelle obama's family history. they came on the great migration. they ended up in chicago. her father gets a job at the plant, where he has job security and enough money to keep a roof over his family's head and ds his kids to college. he has enough that he has a pension to retire on. he has a pension to retire on. that does not seem to be the case anymore. any localities with this problem where you actually see the roots of improvement or solutions? >> that is a good question. see what is being solutions orssible

temporary solutions. i am not an economist. if you look at where jobs are , servicethe country sector jobs, lower paying hourly work, and health care industry is growing, too. i was this town in ohio for a while, and the town was a factory town that they realized was not going to work anymore. they were trying to translate it into health care. they talked about it as the opportunity point in the economy. that was the word for it. so, they had these classrooms where the workers could be retrained for the opportunity point in the economy. they were being trained to be home health aides. some really difficult jobs. they are jobs where you can get paid a decent wage if you are lucky.

$13 an hour, or maybe a little more of that. you are taking care of people at the end of their lives. you are with them while they are sick, bathing them, cleaning them. even when people went off into those jobs, they stayed for a year at most, and then they left and they were looking for a new solution again. that thereecessarily are jobs. there might be jobs. the issue is security. there is not a lot of security, good union, good pension. >> i can ask a question -- if i can ask a question, is there some kind of meter of how hopeful or pessimistic now or eras?ve to other areas --

>> the one that stands out to me is the number of americans now that believe their children will be worse off than they will. it is also really interesting in that people tend to find ways to be hopeful about their own lives. we have to. that is the way we keep going. , they find ways to tell themselves that it will be ok for me. that is a very american thing. we find a way to convince ourselves that i can, no matter what the circumstances are. i have the ability and the initiative and the skills to push through. then, when they look at the wider community, or are a number of people in their same situations, whether hope for the community getting out of it is much lower. -- in dallas, because the

dallas, because the economy here is somewhat that are than a lot of places in the nation, you do find pockets of the despair. and far between. a lot of people managed to take a situation that allows them to trudge on through each day. very -- inded by a was reminded about a very injury program goingting on in dallas. it is a program where we empowered a small group of hispanic parents. they were taught a lot of social skills,ills, internet ,ll with the idea of education

early education for children, reading to them. it is one of those things, where they are able to then educate other people. who then educate other people who then educate other people. i had a number of -- i had the opportunity to attend a number of these. to see these primarily women coming in -- and most if not all of them are working poor, they would come in and they would seem so downtrodden. over the course of a year-long , andam, they would bloom they were very solution very -- solution focused. that is a lot that we have done. it does not solve all the nations poverty problems. however, you work from a base. the base grows and grows.

i think it is about force of wheel -- will. perhaps theare strongest helpers and mentors for people in the community. move toe going to questions in a few minutes. warning forgive a those that want to start making their way toward the microphones. one other subject i wanted to bring up. on ated to use -- end this cheery note. unfortunately, it is not. it is the heroine crisis and how that has moved from years ago, when it was in urban, black phenomenon, to being basically a rough belt, white phenomenon. it is much more suburban in some cases.

impact you ask, what are seeing on the ground from that? also, whether that is becoming rich-poor dividing line in the cities. >> i suppose i can answer that first. , and ihere last night had been writing about a woman, drug addict, she is trying to find her way out of it. i've been thinking about this a lot in learning about it a lot. one thing that is starting to are thet of attention

quickly escalating mortality .ates, mostly for women it is even worse for white women in rural areas. a lot of people arts studying why that is happening. basically, suicides are way out. what they call "accidental " or drug overdoses, are way up. overdoses are up. prescription painkiller overdoses are out. no one can figure out why. some are guessing that it is because life is just becoming very hard in these places. opiates are much more available in terms of people prescribing them. doctors inng -- these communities are having conversations about physical pain, but we are not so good about having conversations about emotional pain. many of them are in emotional

pain, and they get prescribed something. hard tocriptions are fill. heroine is very cheap, at least at first. but then, the addiction becomes very expensive. it causes a lot of people that you did not think would become a drug addicts, and it sends them in that direction. >> we are going to move to questions now. microphones there. first of all, thank you panelist. you are not quite done. let's that here on the left. all youryou for our -- thoughtful suggestions. , you cannotthe fact illuminate a capitalist society a capitalist society, it just made everything sound like band-aids. we have a free market capitalist

society, so it seems like we will always lose. it does beg the further question with conch -- if there are quite are question of if there other countries with other economic styles that are doing better in that we can learn from them? >> there are some that have not. you can look at the social democracies in scandinavian countries, and they have managed to produce a more even income distribution. days, arguably, they are producing more economic mobility in terms of the ability to rise. one idea that lyndon johnson spent a lot of time looking at, and that i have heard some buzz

about recently was guaranteed income. with poorroblem people being that they do not have enough money. so, there should be some kind of guaranteed income. never quitelbj figured out how to get that passed. lbj washearing that sending people to research it, and they could just never find some way to get it through. so, he never actually tried to do it. >> two quick things. first, the earned income tax credit has been a bipartisan policy move. i think we can learn things, germany, france. there are 28 million jobs in the united states, whicheq