-- we have seen there is a lot of variation in different programs within institution. that is something we cannot look at on a national level red right now you might make a very different wage. to know thata way right now at the federal level. host: we are talking about a report on public institutions. loretta, saint augustine, texas. good morning. caller: i taught 20 years in high school. and 20 years at college and university level. i taught in three states and

five foreign countries. at the university level. what amazes me about the are taking so many remedial classes which led me to believe they were that serious and high school to have to pay for a media classes. when i started a freshman class i/o was as the students, what are you doing here? -- i always asked what are you doing here? studied and you know exactly what you want. this year you are spending for thousand up -- $4000 or $6,000 and many don't have a career in mind. you take the classes because they are required. you have to have a goal. you have to have i four-year plan before you should commit yourself or your parents to spending that much money. guest: sure.

we still have a huge amount of an equity and our system. the amount of remediation is not the same across the board. we have students who go to high school that aren't performing as well and not able to potentially get into that freshman level college class. that's one of the reasons we think we need to look at these outcomes and fund raise on some of these outcomes. is ife do in high schools you have students that are more poverty -- more extreme circumstances, we will give you more money. because we realize you may need more resources. we don't do that at the college level. recognize that some schools are dealing with a more difficult population than others. at the same time we found in the data that students who need the

most help are often going to universities that can provide for them, at least. it is perpetuating inequality. we think we need to do some support for those schools that are dealing with a more difficult population, that need more resources. also, hold them to task for providing the outcomes they need for their students. to send the lower income students to places where they have a nine and 10% chance of dropping off --they would not be better off. host: there are exceptions to the rule that you found. schools that are consistently sending students entree hire rage.

what are they doing right? guest: when we look to the earnings data is we could see those schools have high urgent -- earnings outcomes. they were maritime or technology focused or mining or that type of thing. schoolsd about some even with the same population are just getting better outcomes . the data continues to bear this out. just looking at this we know there are two schools if you were in the chicago area, we know there are two schools that have basically the same population taking and 50% one is getting a graduation rate of 20%.

the other is getting a graduation rate closer to 60%. itsee discrepancies when comes to earning data as well. of -- what thene student -- schools are doing is andtter of resources additional resources going to the are there students getting text messages when the end up enrolling in a course that is not going to be part of their major? little things like that we can see are making a huge difference. host: can you remind our viewers what the pell grant program is? guest: it is the number one federal way that we help low and moderate income students go to college. the average hell family is ll family is about $50,000 every year.

to help given a grant them pay for college every year they are in college. that is one of the biggest ways we try to make college a mobility machine for people who need it the most, but what we are seeing is that federal money is going so much further in some of the schools than in others. host: next we have michelle calling in for minneapolis. you are a parent of a college student? son who isave a going to be an electrician. if you have had an electrician over to your house lately, you know that it pays better than a lot of other jobs. my whole problem with this conversation is that we are talking about college. i think the whole education system is broken. we have kids getting out of high i heard 30% ofp, the population has a college degree. what are we doing with the other 70%?

take high need to school, i do not care if you need to add another year, we need to prepare the kids who want to go into things like my vo-ech kind of things, i can walk into an apprenticeship and in four years if they are making good money and want to take additional college training, that is great. if they are not going to go to college in the first place let them get out of high school prepared to walk into a career. host: let's let them adjust that issue. guest: you are absolutely right, and in d.c. we are doing something with a program called project lead the way which does just that. going into high schools and saying when you get out of high school you have a certification to use to have a career that will pay well.

whole world of higher education that we need to talk about in this is just one little piece. i will say the number of jobs that now require a four-year degree has just exploded over the last 30 years, and i was looking at the data for executive assistance or secretaries. someone did a study that said about 63% now of those job postings require a four-year degree for a secretary. about 17 percent of the secretaries in the current workforce have a four-year degree. we are seeing a massive change in employment so we think it is very important to focus on four-year and two-year and certification, technical programs because there is going to be a lot of focus for employers on that four-year degree. we still need to do important training for advanced manufacturing and other things that is much better done at the technical level. host: next we have paul from

danville, virginia. caller: good morning. first off, i am a democrat but i am dead center, not centerleft or center-right. i am dead center. i have worked at various universities in the past as security and what i have seen firsthand and heard, a lot of the problem is that these colleges and high schools that turned into nothing but indoctrination centers for political correctness. they do not worry about teaching how to do math, science, history, none of that stuff. social behavior and all of this other stuff they are teaching they are not responsible for their own behavior and actions in society. i have seen it. , the morehing is money the government puts into

taxpayer, thethe more money these people are getting. hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, football coaches, hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. these commencement speakers, they come in and are getting paid anywhere from $25,000 to one close to $100,000 because he director, you cut all that garbage out and costs will go down. if the kids cannot pass high school they do not belong in college. host: let's let them address that. cannot speak to personally some of the things you are hearing that dish hearing about, i know there are a time of -- hearing about, but i know there are a time of efforts thinking about curriculum and some are around creating a standardized pathway

first things you want to go to school and be able to earn a bachelor's degree as quickly as possible, because we know that a real thing that happens is kids will get into school, not really know what they want to do so they will take some classes in one area and another, and before they realize that, the end of four years or five years commons and they do not have a degree. taking sure they have a better pathway. in terms of spending money at institutions on commencement speakers, there also is a lot of effort right now in sort of making sure that we are focusing more on instruction and teaching and learning at schools. you hear those stories about the universities,e the rockclimbing walls, and this is our conversation saying bring it back to down -- breck to ground. -- back to ground.

right that we spend a huge amount of taxpayer dollars supporting higher education institutions and we found -- spend a very small amount proportionally in our elementary and high schools, and thoseuire so much of elementary and high schools in terms of accountability and improving. in higher ed, it is a blank taxpayerswe think the need to ask for more because that is what is required for our students to be prepared. host: we are talking about the report on public universities or the dropout rates, dropout factories they have become according to the report. college students who are watching can call in on (202) 748-8000, parents, (202) 748-8001, and administrators can also call (202) 748-8002.

one of the points the report says is how students tend to be concentrated at schools with the worst outcome. the lowest completion rates, the fewest pretensions just percent it -- why is that? guest: as i said, in the elementary and high school context we recognize that some students start behind the start line in comparison to others, and they need more help. that is true at the college level his we have not made sure that everyone comes out of high school with the same quality education across this country. we continue to have in equities and that translates into the colleges. the problem is that we rely on colleges in this country as the way for people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. we say go to college and you can have a better life. in fact, one of the shocking

things we found is that a lot of the schools that are doing well for those low and moderate income students are taking virtually none of them. they are admitting levels of pell students that are astounding, 5%, 9%, 15% when again, the median income of the country would be eligible for these grants. we think we need to incentivize the schools that have good outcomes to do better and take more of the students that we know they can succeed with, and we need to support and push to improve the schools that are not doing well because encouraging someone who is taking out a pell grant who is a low income student, to take out a bunch of debt to go to a place where it is more likely they will dropout then graduate, is not a good bet. host: we are talking about the

inlege rates of dropout public colleges and universities, according to a new third way report. we have deb calling in from south dakota. good morning. caller: good morning. host: you are on. caller: i know one person already touched on it, but out here in my area of the midwest plains or the flyover states, our technical universities, two-year programs are doing a way better job than most of the college students. we have people who graduate with four-year degrees that cannot touch the amount of money that is being made by the kids coming out with technical degrees in two years. i personally know people who have graduated college with teaching degrees, as this administration degrees, and stuff that are bartending --

,usiness administration degrees and they are bartending right now looking for jobs, and people in technical schools were able to walk into jobs that start at a lot more than people start out. a lot of students are coming out of high school that student is a struggle, and i think this is an underutilized resource. our technical programs are forward thinking in terms of the things that you come out of with your degree in. it is a degree, not just a certification. host: tamara? the reasons we focused on the four-year colleges and this report, we also put out a report earlier this summer for the private nonprofit institutions, because the data we have for the two-year schools is not sufficient and we do not have a robust way to actually track a lot of these great outcomes that

we are hearing from people. that is one of the reasons as we mentioned earlier, we want to push towards what is called a student unit record. we know two-year schools are more likely to have transfer students or part-time students, and they are not counted in the federal data that is available. the other thing to say about that, we know that two-year schools cost less money so what we are really focused on in this report, this is a student -- a lot of the students enrolled in four-year institutions with the hopes of ending with a bachelor degree and the worst-case scenario for them is if they do not finish, they have taken out loans. those schools cost more money and they might end up in default or a worse situation. we completely agree and think there are a lot of great things happening around career and technical education, and making sure students are aware of those programs.

for this particular report and the data we have available, we only have good information on four-year schools, and that information is not perfect. host: you mentioned on cost that one of the findings of the report, bearing between the cost of the education and the mobility metric that you are says thee report average net tuition at a four-year public institution in the top quartile of the mobility $10,176 compared to $10,762 for the four-year public schools in the bottom quartile. why is that? --st: i think it is an edgy indication that our higher education market is completely broken. you could assume that if i am paying more for this it is probably going to be a better product. i was searching for new headphones on amazon and i

thought, i'm not going to buy that two dollar headphones because i can assume the $20 headphones are better. that is not the case in college. we have popped so much federal money in the system and required some little outcome, they have become nonresponsive. the schools with the worst outcomes for students were charging them 600 more dollars a year. in the private colleges, it is worst. they were charging those students $3000 more a year than the highest performing. data at to have more your disposal to be able to understand that. if what you are going on is based on saying, this college is pretty expensive, i must be able to get a good education, that is just not true. host: we have george calling and from out pleasant, south carolina. you have students in college.

caller: my last son just got his masters degree. host: congratulations. caller: i have been dealing with education for the last 45 years. i had my children in private schools and colleges. cost me a fortune. --ent to college in 1970 1969, 1970, in 1971. my college tuition was $57 a quarter. i went to washington state university. doable. i went on the g.i. bill. back to the value you get from college today. the ford foundation did a study in the 1970's and early 80's that stated that fewer than 25%

of the jobs in the country require more than a high school education to do. i do not think that has changed a whole lot. there is a false precedent put on a college degree. they let children take social studies, this, that, basket weaving and the traditional, crazy courses. i believe the kids on wall street should be suing their colleges and the guidance counselors for letting them take , promising them they are going to start with $65,000 a year. that is a joke. host: is there a false narrative about the value of a college degree? aret: i think what we trying to do is figure out what the narrative around with the value out of college looks like. i will say that one of the biggest misconceptions that we hear and that a lot of policymakers have, what does

today's student look like, and their own experiences clouding their ability to push this conversation forward. jealous that you and a pay $57 in tuition lot of lawmakers in congress today also had very similar experiences, which is simply not the reality for most students. i think having a better sense of the fact that, i think 60% of students are not your and go tol, turn 18 sleep away school and graduate in four years. areols are -- students having to juggle a lot and redefine what that value looks like. i think it is an important piece of the conversation in the next higher ed reauthorization. guest: there is no question a college degree makes you better off in our current economy. to make anlikely average of a million dollars more in their lifetime with a

college degree. the unemployment rate is about three points lower, and continues to go down as you get a masters and more education. there is a premium put in our current economy for having those skills. that means nearly all of the jobs that were created in the postrecession boom required a four-year degree. actually, the numbers have to my point about requirements for secretaries, over time. it used to be that about two in 10 would require a college degree and now it is six in 10. employers are looking for that college degree because they think it indicates an ability to work with others, have critical thinking skills, to bring something more to the table. there are jobs out there for college graduates, and what we are seeing the bad outcomes from as folks who start college, take

out loans, and do not graduate. there is this perception about the starkness of the change in the cost of college. i was looking at a new america report this morning that had said since 1996, the out-of-pocket cost for a low income students at one of these public universities has gone up $73 over 20 years. for the next round of students that is higher income, it has gone up $157 a year. numbers might sound big when you do not factor in the grants and loans and all the things we do. the sticker price is not a thing to look at. there is kind of an over blowing of this cost concern. i use myself as an example. i have a huge amount of student loans, but i went to law school and got a degree and i am fine and able to pay back those loans because i have those job opportunities that come with that degree. i do not think policymakers

should be focusing on my problems right now, i think they should be focusing on the folks who are not able to pay back those smaller loans. int: we have ralph calling from washington, d.c. with students in college. caller: my daughter graduated the university of maryland. i have a son who has ambitions for m.i.t.. he goes to a private catholic school right now. the problem is, you talk about the cost of college. my daughter looks back and thanks me she never got involved in those college loans. these kids are getting buried and they need to think about, are they going to be able to get the income to pay off those loans when they get through. i had the g.i. bill, eighth grade education, went -- ended with a masters degree, but i am

unusual. most people struggle to make it through high school and struggle to get in. i think the whole point is to get people employed. now, d.c., where i live the average sat scores are 325. these kids are not prepared for college. one of the ideas i had, a plumber will have a license and he will have 50 trucks with guys who are unqualified working and billing $150 an hour. all they have to do is change the law and say you can only have two helpers and you need to be at the job. we could employ another 50,000 electricians and plumbers. host: let's let them respond to that. guest: i think we have to be more intentional at the high school level in particular, of making sure that students are prepared for whatever school

they select. in dce, there is an excellent program happening. d.c. public school students actually are sitting down with their college advisors in their junior or senior year, and getting to see how well d.c. public school graduates are doing at schools and the washington, d.c. area. they have been able to see that at the same net price, the out-of-pocket cost for them is going to be the same at two institutions, but at one you can see that d.c. public school graduates are graduating at a rate of 63%, and another school and a 9% rate. so now d.c. has done a good job of saying, sorry, to that 9% school, you cannot come to our college fair and we are not going to let students use d.c. money to go on college tours.

getting some of those initiatives in at the high school level so that kids are starting to think about what potential track any to be on, is a big step forward. hopefully more school districts around the country are trying to make those connections. we have james calling in from campton, new hampshire, a professional or -- a professor. caller: thank you for the opportunity. it is a very broad subject but i think many of the children who are entering the schools have to get excellent direction at the , takingool level help.s that will excellent,es are

other colleges are essentially -- the attorney should discuss because of the dropout rates and the money that is being lost -- they are essentially probably candidates for the rico statute. host: i want to let them respond. guest: that is absolutely true, and the kinds of initiatives they are doing in d.c. is one of the ways we can connect those high schools. the other misconception is that the folks who had really bad incomes are only for-profit universities. many of the for-profit universities have extremely bad incomes and are not a good deal for students, but it is also true of some of our nonprofit universities and public institutions. we need to have a broader conversation about these institutions and say, what are they promising and what are they delivering? that is the topic of conversation we hope congress will ask. the vice president of

social policy and politics at third way news today that donald trump campaign manager has designed a couple of days after the trump steve bannon and kellyanne conway to the leadership team. donald trump releasing this statement today. today paul manafort offered and i accepted his resignation from the campaign. workn particular his guiding us through the delegate and convention process. i wish him the greatest success. ,hat from the nominee himself releasing that statement on the resignation of campaign chairman paul manafort. a couple of reactions coming in.

this one from the washington tweeting tweeting" -- . quotes from eric trump meanwhile robert costa, who writes for the washington post with this tweet -- metaphor by the revelations about his work on behalf of pro-russian horses in ukraine. the trump campaign will release its first general election campaign had. we will take a look at that now. >> in hillary clinton's america get togal immigrants stay, collecting social security benefits, skipping the line. donald trump's america is secure. terrorists and dangerous criminals kept outcome of the

borders secure, our families safe. change that makes america safe again. >> that first ad released by the trump campaign for the general election. the first ad after the click -- after the convention, the primary season comes to a halt. we have been following members of congress as the congressional break continues. bill, who represents ohio's six ohio's sixth congressional district -- from rhode island has been on the road today with senator sheldon.

they can fill those jobs, visiting the westerly higher education center in rhode island. democrat who are a ninth district to their. .ad a wonderful time congress returns on tuesday, september 6. othe house and senate backed to the work on fiscal year 2017. defense programs and policy. and considering a possible impeachment. live in c-span and the senate.

we are going to head to the programming on saturday. issue spotlight on voting rights this saturday at 8:00 eastern time. three years after a supreme court ruling overturned the voting rights act. we will be looking at those issues saturday evening looking at eight eastern. a quick preview of one of the events we will be showing here. is telling her supporters that the voting rights act needs to be restored. >> we have a responsibility to say clearly and directly what is really going on in our country. because what is happening is a sweeping effort to disempower and disenfranchise people of and young people from one

end of our country to the other. because since the supreme court even serrated -- supreme court is eviscerated -- since the evisceratedrt of thi -- because of the history of racial discrimination have proposed and passed new laws that make it harder than ever to vote. host: our spotlight on the 2016 election and voting rights. tomorrow night at 8 p.m. eastern. now a look at black markets and cybercrime. and information systems analyst with the rand corporation talks about black markets and cyber

criminals. this took lace at a rand corporation headquarters in santa monica, california. some of our most sensitive financial health information resides online with companies and entities that are increasing victims of cyber attacks. we are all familiar with the news stories. have become commonplace. from retail to baking to health care to the government, no sector is immune.

and these entities are often victims of cyber attacks, which are increasingly linked to markets where participants can buy and sell tools to carry out cybercrime attacks, as well as stolen data from those attacks. that's stolen data appears within days of these black-market sites. we conducted a study to understand the character and the landscape of these black markets. today i'm going to give you a lay of the land of what these markets look like now. andhe got to where we are where we are going in the future. a bit on our methodology, rand is big on methodology. we interviewed experts with involvement in these black markets. reporters, security vendors and law enforcement personnel, about

a quarter of which agreed to speak to us only on the condition of anonymity. we also researched the literature and reports out there. because i am a hands-on kind of person i like to touch the data i am examining. i have screenshots in my backups and i would happy -- i would be happy to show you them. as although there are people, each of these people is an expert in their don't name -- in their domain. who knew a lote about the markets where things are bought and sold on twitter. for folks who are extremely knowledgeable about what chinese hackers are doing. who knew about

vulnerabilities, but no one had this comprehensive overview. we try tot accomplish, understanding these are black markets in these things are going to be hidden from us. to make sure we are on the same page in terms of terminology, we mean the collection of skilled and unskilled suppliers, vendors, and intermediate reese that intermediaries to affect crime. stilling e-commerce accounts like your paypal or ebay account. as well as takedowns and sites. what we found is that these markets for cybercrime tools and stolen data were rapidly growing, maturing and continuously innovating, full of

sophisticated people and methods for communicating and conducting business transactions. downs by lawtake enforcement and constantly defenders. security it is truly a cat and mouse game. this is a pretty sobering fact of the world we live in. how did we get here? if you think about the growth of these markets like the growth of a small city, so go back in time, 10 to 15 years ago, cybercrime or hacking was consisting of an ad hoc network of individuals largely motivated by ego and notoriety. they wanted to show off to their friends. they want to do a resume booze. they wanted to prove to themselves and their friends that they could do this sort of thing. this is the age of the loan will factor.

as time went on and -- lone wolfpack are. as time went on and more individuals entered the world and more competing components get connected, more people recognized the opportunity that there was by hacking for financial profit. especially criminal entrepreneurs i by getting into the cybercrime gang. as such, motivation shifted from ego and notoriety to making money in financial gain. today, we can liken these markets to a thriving metropolis where they are sophisticated hierarchies, methods for conducting transactions, specialized roles and often cyber crimes are solely connected with sophisticated traditional crime organizations. let me upon us here and just

note we are talking about cybercrime and cyber criminals. this is only one type of cyber threat actor. we typically break it down into four different groups. they all have their own capabilities and they all have their own motivations. here i'm just talking about cyber criminals. if anyone has watched the abc show, "shark tan"k" where all they care about is making money, all they care about is making money. we are only talking about people that care about making money. what did the markets look like? we broke them down into four different components come

participants, business condiments, products and creation. i am going to go through each one of these, but in addition to looking at the four different components, we also wanted to compare these markets to traditional markets. to look at the economics of them and find out how mature these cyber crimes were. we came up with five different elements of the charity and i will picture them to you now. as i go to the different components, keep these in the back of your mind. the first, sophistication. when the markets change and adapt to the current needs. resilience. external events do not affect the market or if they do, they bounced back in resilience for external events can the man-made or non-man-made events.

in man-made event might be for example the arrest of russell brooke the creator of silk road which is a black market website with illicit drugs and information so. in non-native and might be a c tsunami in the area of a world where a lot of hackers operate out of. accessibility, whether it is a low barrier to entry in the most easy for everyone to get involved. this is true at the most basic level of these markets. reliability, where people and products are what they say they are and do what they say they do. this is actually quite surprising for us. there truly is an honest thief. you will be with the you think you will be dealing with. it may get a little extra feature with what you pay for, but for the most part, you are going to get what you pay for. finally, specialization, whether

a distinct or customize role places for communicating and conducting business transactions as well as ways to communicate. all right. now onto the four different components. we will talk about participants and stick with this theme of cyber markets as a thriving metropolis. participants, it is very much like any other corporate organization. there are hierarchies there are hierarchies: not everyone knows each other but they are connected in some way. there are hierarchies. at the top they are typically administrators as well as subject matter experts. these are folks who might be skilled in one particular thing like writing expletives or making and breaking cryptography or encryption. setting up infrastructure or vetting participants. in the middle realm are the vendors, buyers, intermediaries, some of the general membership. if you or i were to spend in these markets, this is where we would find ourselves. ultimately, there needs to be a

cash out. it does not do as any good if we are holding onto a bunch of stolen data if we cannot make money. this is where mules, virtual money services come into play. they return the stolen data into cash or money that can be used for financial gain. reputation matters a great deal in these markets. one gets reputation by proving oneself to others, getting vetted by members that are of good standing in the community. it is really like if you go to ebay or amazon or paypal or any of these places, the e-commerce accounts where you have to rate the buyer and there is a number of thumbs up or stars. you get rated or reviews. the same thing for these markets would you want to have the highest numbers of thumbs up, stars or ratings. if you do not have that, then people will not buy and sell from you.

you want to have a good reputation. but, these are black markets. there are people called rivers who do not provide the --rippers who do not provide the goods and services they say they will. he gives every administrator wants you to come to their vendors, vendors often get reported and removed quite quickly. one common ripper scheme is to provide or say you will provide 100 credit cards and will give away 10 for free and then if someone pays the money, they will get the money from someone and then they last 90 are duds. they have been either closed out by sold to someone else. if that kind of ripper is found out, they will get kicked off. this is a world economy and different groups tend to focus on different areas. for example, there were reports of hackers in vietnam who focus on e-commerce accounts. it is believed that the majority of eastern european hackers tend

to focus on attacking financial institutions. many believe that those in china who are hackers are focused on the theft of individual property. one of the interesting things we heard from one of the experts we spoke to was that groups that traditionally never worked together are working together now. a couple examples, the enemies and nigerians -- the enemies --vitetnam working with nigeria. there's another story of setting up villages for the chinese to operate out of. of course, these are not the only things groups go after. are you wondering what about the u.s.? 10 years ago, the majority of participants were from russia.

fast forward to about 2013, which is the latest statistic we have, and russians are no longer in the top 1/3 of participants. number three, ukraine, number two, china and then number one is the u.s.. our second component our business condiments. how do people communicate, how do they conduct their business? there are multiple access tiers and different channels for communicating. online stores, something akin to ebay or amazon. forms were you can post information and pose queries, e-mail, instant messaging communications to allow for

private one-on-one communications or open chat channels. some of these are very easy to find. you can easily googled for them. others are hidden on the deep web or the darknet and either you have to figure out the access of the site to go to or you actually have to get vetted in, a member of good standing to get access to some of these sites are these channels. -- or these channels. any computer literate person can get involved in these markets. there are tools and resources available to teach you how to become a militant attacker in a cyber criminal. we saw google guides on how to sell and buy credit cards. i watched a youtube video. i did not see but i'm waiting for a yelp on which sites are the best to go to. while english is the universal language of our commerce, it is not the universal language of

this commerce. most of these sites tend to be in russian or ukrainian. that said, there certainly are other language specific websites. all of that said, the majority of phishing and spam campaigns are done in english because they are familiar with that language. something interesting about a lot of the sites in russian or ukrainian, a piece of advice i got from a researcher that i spoke to about this was, if i wanted to go into some of the sites to be very careful about how i communicated because being a non-native russian speaker, they can tell that right away and basically take you off or not want to do any business with you, not that i was doing any business, but if i wanted to communicate. an interesting thing he brought up, google translate is a really, really poor tool for translating into russian but there are a couple other sites, translation sites that might be

a little better, and so there are some hints on how to better to indicate with cyber criminals on these websites. i can tell you, we are not going to tell you what those translation sites were. [laughter] the third component is products which are goods and services which facilitate the entire lifecycle of the attack. let me pause here. i gave this talk and some of came up to me afterwards and said, all of your stick figures were men and i wanted to make sure to represent the lady hackers in the room. goods and services, they facilitate the full lifecycle of the attack. everything from initial access tools, things like your exploit kit to get onto a victim box, palos, a piece of malware. services to enable an attacker facilitate the attack happening, support tools, for example,

setting up infrastructure or raising crypto. and of course, consideration what to do with the goods, the cyber laundering once you receive the goods at home. i mentioned any computer literate person can get involved in these markets, but that is actually a lie. any computer illiterate person can get involved in these markets. all you need is an internet connection and some cash. you can hire a hacker to do whatever you want. there are also, we see trends with more creative offerings and more capabilities, so there is more use of things going over vp ns, trying to use more of the darknet tor as well as the shift towards other types of darknet.

vendors can guarantee their product lifespan or value. for example, they can guarantee that a particular piece of malwa re is good for 10 hours before detection of an antivirus system. they can guarantee the amount of account balance on a credit card. they can also track what you are doing with their product. so, remember how i said, product will do what they say they do and people are who they say they are? this is kind of that example of "and then some," where vendors may sell you capability to infect machines and if you do something there, they can also steal data two. they can detect if you have figured out a way to infect 10,000 machines and asked for more money or maybe taylor and

back to the original 1000 machines. generally, it seems as if vendors prefer to go below the noise. pricing ranges wildly depending on hardness of target, preciousness of data, doing it yourself or as a service. if you examples, hacking into e-mail accounts ranges from $16 to $200. credit cards can go for pennies or up to $200. that really ranges on freshness of data.

that is a big component. for example, after target got breached, the data that went on to the black market, some credit cards were worth about $145 but now that the data has become stale and likely those cards have become shut down were no longer valid or have been used, they are on sale for pennies on the dollar. another difference for credit cards could be a european or u.s. or non-us versus u.s.. not now but especially in the past where non-us cards were chip and pin. they are worth a lot more because they are thought to be more secure. exploit kits range. if you are renting about a week, the month, the year or renting it out right. in terms of pavement, typically, anonymous crypto-currencies or digitally-based currencies are preferred for making transactions. that was a little overview of what these markets look like, where we are going in the future and what does it mean.

there are more technically savvy individuals in the world. with hacking, it is like little league. everyone starts early and spends a lot of time doing it. this is good if you're a white hat hacker. on the other hand, there could be more digitally savvy, technologically savvy folks who are hyper criminals. with insulin pumps enabled with bluetooth, pacemakers that have a network component, door locks that can be controlled with a smartphone, and vehicles that are computers on wheels, more of the world has a digital component. by 2020, the number of connected devices will outnumber the number of connected people by a ratio of 6-1.

that means there will be six devices connecting and communicating for every one person. that statistic i have been using for a couple of years. it is amazing that we are at 2016. 2020 is up at far. we can expect the attack landscape for cyber criminals to go after expands greatly. uetherefore enabling more crime to have a digital component. this means there will be more successes and challenges for law-enforcement. when this happens, we tend to he ar about it. there tends to be media stories about how the owner of silk road was taken down. it is exciting to read about, but participants in the market learn how law-enforcement are conducting investigations.

they adapt tactics and techniques. people who are previously unaware of these black markets and the wonderful things it could affor dthem -- a fordffor d them are unaware -- where do we go from here? if we think about what we can do in our world, as individuals, we can redouble our online security efforts. like, when we enter financial or personal information, it's on a site that we are reasonably sure is secure. we can be more aware of phishing campaigns. we can be more aware of phishing campaigns.

the combination of a username and password is worth more than a credit card. because the password, it's often thought that password reuse is so common because, the human care about that -- though you may not care about that instagram password, that password or a version of that could access financial information with great reward. we can also patch immediately. upgrading or updating your systems or computers. for example, if you are on your computer, and you get an alert that patches are available, that means they have found a vulnerability that malicious actors can use to get on your system and they have a path so that it is no longer an open hole.

companies can do more. things like safer passage -- storage and passage of credentials. if there's multi-authentication for just means multiple things to authenticate yourself to a service. when i login to gmail a nutley my password but a number that can text to my cell phone. so i have that number as well as my password. those are two factors that i used to authenticate myself. companies should mandate continued security awareness training for all employees. enact password management for all devices and tighten access controls. we look at what defenders do and

how they view the cyber security landscape. for that, we interviewed chief information security officers at a number of companies and we found that they cared more about their reputation than anything else. they cared more that any attack had occurred rather than the data that was taken. we also found that there was no comprehensive understanding for how to conduct risk assessment. there were other issues where we felt the defenders were in dilemma, which is what we named our report. i think all of these things are kind of "no duh's" in the security world. how can we shift the paradigm? perhaps something that would be really good is if we built in security from the start.

all companies, organizations and governments should, rather than slap on a band-aid or bolt on security after an incident occurred, we should think about baking it in from the start which might mean a complete -- the complete rehaul of infrastructure. it also means placing liability with responsible parties. right now, vendors are not held responsible for bad code and this becomes a big deal with the internet of things. a crash with that is not just a crash of your computer or code, but a crash of a car or something with a physical component. companies, organizations, and governments could consider moving away from a defensive only reactionary position. there is a lot of discussion about hacking back and the legality but that is something

to consider even more. we really should assume that we are going to be breached. the saying is that it isn't a matter of if, but a matter of when. it is not possible to the 100% secure. the best week and do is make it difficult in term of time, resources and personnel that they have to put into it. perhaps one can use the black markets to their advantage. from a government perspective, harness these projects to protect their own highly sensitive tools and thinking about how we take down this black markets, one of the main reasons why they are so successful is due to the confidence. the participants are confident that they will not get detected that there is low attribution, they are confident that they're going to be able to carry out the attacks and use the tools

and away where they know how they will work and they are confident that they will be able to make money and get away with it. if there is a way to reduce the confidence that can significantly tarnish the reputation and make a dent in these black markets. with that i would love to open it for questions or discussion. i would be more than happy to show you my screenshots. over to you. [applause] >> say for example that i don't have tv and i want to watch the dodgers and so i am streaming the dodgers game. am i the mark or the cyber criminal in that set up? i suppose i mean, multiple pop-ups come up and it looks like a shady site but you close

them as quickly to watch the dodgers game because kershaw is pitching and it is crucial. what is the malware that might come up on those sites and is closing the pop-ups enough to protect myself? >> no. there is still a chance of getting infected no matter how quickly you close a pop-up. the type of stuff that can be running -- it could be a nine malware in which some biggest would like to use your computing resources, or they could be trying to take over different processes on your system. >> we have a question here. >> the market seems to be recognizing that there is a certain level of theft that is tolerated. if you make $100 million in

sales and there is 5% theft, there's a level where merchants are happy because cutting back means only $90 million in sales. and echoing on what he said, if you look at the music world, people are downloading music which means that the price of cds go up. are you a fool for buying cds or do they expect you to be downloading the cd? the market seems to be accepting a certain level of theft and building it into their revenue stream. how does the company justify what they are doing and how do they crack down under that scenario? >> that is absolutely true. companies seem to be ok with a level of fraud or theft. unfortunately, it's not necessarily clear that that

trickles down to us as a consumer. take target, or any data breach. it might go to the bank that has to deal with the fraud, but there are higher transaction fees that the consumer gets. we just finished a study examining consumer attitudes towards the companies and whom they receive notifications from. consumers are forgetful that breaches happen. they are forgiving of companies. they don't see inconvenience themselves. we as consumers do not seem to be up in arms that data breaches are happening. companies are putting the pain on consumers without us noticing.

there isn't a lot of incentive yeah, incentive for the world to make big changes. a couple of statistics. after they were notified of a breach, i found that 77% of consumers were -- they found that 77% of consumers were highly satisfied with how the company responded. only 11% reported they stop doing business with the company. about 64 million americans have received a breach notification in the last year. over half of those had received more than two. we are getting notified of breaches more and more. discount opm out of that. consumers do business as normal and forgive the companies. >> office of?

>> opm is office of personnel management. >> you talked about how efficient these markets are becoming and how advanced they are and how resilient, even though there are efforts to shut them down by law enforcement. what can business, especially government and critical and for structure learn from building systems from these markets and these actors? what takeaways can we learn? >> there are two aspects to resilience. governments and critical organizations should be more resilient in the sense that they should have back up systems and redundant servers. there should be the normal security things like encryption.

things like that will help to prevent ransomware attacks and we can talk about that. but even if an individual tool developer gets taken down, they are not necessarily resilient but the market is. the analogy would be, once a big company gets taken down, there would be other companies to take over the market share, or critical infrastructure, rather than it going back up. in 2013, the biggest exploit kit developer was arrested. he had 60% of the market share or something huge.

he got arrested and all of a sudden, it's not as though exploit-kits were not available, but the hundreds of others jumped on the market share and made themselves available. it's not that the market is resilient, but that anyone can get an exploit kit when they wanted. >> when you go to black hat or attend death con, in the vendor room everybody says, we have zero day, which is a day too late. that's already happened. when you ask these copies building these boxes and all of that and say, this is great, you've got everything out there, but what are you doing to create

anything new? do you have programmers working on the variations or developing -- in the military we call it a red cell event. do you have anyone acting as a terrorist or bad guy to build new technologies and get ahead of zero day. negative one day would be a good idea. all these companies, from the little guys to the big guys, who charge hundreds of thousands of dollars for their box because it is the best say, no. how can you use this information, or encourage these people to wake up and apply these measures? when is that overcome? is it an institutional mediocrity issue? is it that nobody cares? is it the value proposition?

ms. ablon: people definitely care. it's a cat and mouse game. as soon as there is a defense created, attackers have a countermeasure, or figure out a way to get around it. it is a constant back and forth. i think that cyber security vendors are at a loss, because defenders in general have to detect every hole or vulnerability, and attackers only have to be right once. computer vendors really care. in the halls of these conferences, it is beautiful marketing fluff, but it is fluff. one of the unfortunate things is that a lot of times the tools for defenses measures are a lemon market. it's all about how well you can sell it.

there are not a lot of metrics or reliability measures to go up against. mcafee and symantec aren't thought to be the best antivirus systems, but they win out with marketing. what are companies doing these days? there is a shift toward analytics and machine-learning. there are people throwing math behind figuring out malware. malware can shift --it can have a lot of different forms. if you have a signature trying to detect a piece of malware -- if it is just looking for that particular signature, and it changes, then it can go past it. there are companies trying to figure out the fundamental characteristics of malware so even if you do not have the number, you can figure out the

characteristics and still stop the malware. how much of that is true mathematics and good algorithms, and how much is marketing fluff -- more than anything, it is this cat and mouse game. we will go back-and-forth to the end of time. >> we have a question here. >> given the more than perhaps pessimistic view that this is the ongoing cat and mouse game, i'm wondering about -- in that case, how do individuals -- with digital identity is becoming a bigger part of our lives, and more and more consolidated. google and youtube integrated, for example. it's almost like there is a digital monopoly as far as identities go. if the hacking game will go on and on, what can individuals do?

can they be incentivized to take different measures? different passwords across different sites? people don't do that, but there is good reason to. it's like they feel a large part of their identity is so out of their hands that anything they do is helpless. ms. ablon: for most aspects of people's life, functionality trumps security. until security is as big a deal as functionality, we will likely have the same mindset of password reuse. there is a mindset change. with everything getting connected, there may be a culture shift. because everyone is so used to everything being online, it will be. in terms of our information

being out there, there may be a shift in that hiding no longer exists online, but hiding in the noise. what that looks like is up for debate, but there may be shifts as far as hiding or keeping our information private. yes? >> we will wait for the microphone. >> i have a question for you. you said that during your introduction, you have quite a bit of experience in social engineering hacking. a lot of stuff you are discussing has to do with more technical aspects. can you tell us more about trends that you see in a social hacking space? ms. ablon: absolutely. two of the biggest things that make us vulnerable our software vulnerabilities and the

technical aspects, and also the human element. people are connected, whether or not they want to be. in 2014, 5 out of six companies had been attacked by a spear-phishing attack. it's about tricking people into doing things they know they should not be doing like giving you their password or clicking on a link or plugging in a thumb drive or something to that effect. all of that is on the increase. people are more active online. it is easy to think about phishing or spear phishing or influencing humans.

i would be happy to show my screenshots if anyone is still interested in that. >> is there a sense of the size of these markets? how is it tied to other illicit markets? ms. ablon: that is a great question. that was one of the questions we asked almost every person. there is no concrete answer. the answers ranged from -- it is similar to the size of a small country to, i have no idea to an example of one of the bigger forums where credit cards were sold that was taken down years ago and had 70,000 to 80,000 people on it. it was so tight and connected to traditional crime for other illicit drugs and activity -- it

is really difficult. getting the size was a question we wanted to know, but we could not get. >> we will have one final question and then let lily show some of those screenshots. >> in the 1960's, 1970's, 1980's, perhaps 1990's, we had police officers who patrolled the streets, did foot beats, perhaps even in our high schools. i'm wondering where the crime was? when we look at the amount of calls for service, whether my car has been stolen, someone broken, i'm being raped, in those years, versus the number of calls today for my credit card has been stolen, my identity has been stolen, i've been hacked -- are there statistics to provide evidence

that law enforcement has responded in an immeasurable way to understanding the responsibility in this space. it seems that if you knock on the door of the lapd, nypd, or d.c. metro, the number of officers who we might call cybe r cops seems to be a small number compared to the tremendously large number of victims. ms. ablon: i cannot speak to the fbi or law enforcement, but there are growing numbers of organizations of people who focus on cybercrime. certainly people in all rounds of law enforcement who care about cybercrime, and are trying to respond to cybercrime at tacks. the scale of cybercrime to the scale of traditional crime is vastly different.

it's harder to respond, especially when tracking down who did it can be difficult, and if it is still happening can be difficult. law enforcement is available to respond to hacks and breaches. what we are seeing is an increase in vendors who have taken on a symbiotic relationship with law enforcement where law-enforcement can only go so far in the sense that there is only so much they can say about an attack, or they need to respond to other victims. now, commercial companies can take over and start to help their remediation process or forensics on a particular break. law enforcement is getting better. they have certainly had their challenges.

traditionally the have not been as many digital natives in the ranks, but they are getting better and more involved. a few screenshots. here is an example of a shop and a couple of things. you can point and click and drag into your shopping cart. there is u.s. versus european credit cards and there is a difference in price. down in the bottom, you can see that there is paypal. some of those are verified, some are unverified. here is an example of another store where they are selling different e-commerce accounts. they want to make sure that you know they have 80% guaranteed. one of the reasons why it is

difficult to find these typs oes of sites is that a lot of them are on the tour hidden services. they are on websites that and in .onion. tor stands for the onion router. it is a way to anonymous -- to make anonymous where you go on the deep web. you can see it is a lot of gobbledygook. it is difficult for law enforcement to find these sites. there is a search tool on the dark web, but it isn't that good. here is an example of different types of paypal accounts, with different balances, for bitcoins. they are proud of the fact that

their valid rates are 98% so you should definitely shop at cc for all. here is an example of the bulletin board where you can get information. things like hiking -- hacking e-books. from stolen paypal to bank account -- how? [laughter] we have a site, the russian site. this is where i did not have enough reputation points to get access to the forum. there is other information you cnan get. finally, this is where you can rent a hacker and he or she -- no, he has many of his skills -- i would love to say she. perhaps. has many of the skills you can hire.

thank you for your time. [applause] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] news today that donald trump's campaign chair paul manafort has resigned. this story in "the washington examiner ." eric trump, the nominee son, said that palmetto art was dealing with think that his father did not want looming over the campaign. i think my father did not want to be, you know, distracted by whatever paul was dealing with. he spoke in a preview set to interview on sunday. he went on, you know, paul was amazing, he helped us get through the primary process, helped us after the convention, did a great job with the delegates. campaignandidates new manager and ceo are the ones

that are going to bring us all the way through november 8 and ultimately get us the victory, eric trump said, from "the washington examiner." the republican nominee and his running mate mike pence went to louisiana to look at the flood damage there and the recovery efforts. here is a look at donald trump and his running mate mike pence getting off the trump plane in southern the louisiana as they get ready to tour some of the .istoric flooding in that state donald trump and mike pence visiting louisiana, getting set

and theflood damage relief and recovery efforts in that state. this weekend on c-span's newsmakers, our guest is robert stone, longtime friend of donald trump. he talks about recent personnel changes within the campaign team and what to expect from the presidential debates, and issues that could affect the november election. this week's newsmakers with roger stone, sunday at the , but also at10:00 a special time tonight at 8:00 and 11:00 eastern. untilss is on vacation september 6. members taking this time to meet with constituents, hold town halls, attend openings of businesses and fares in their district and states. we have been following a number of those that have been on

social media to chronicle their visits in their districts. here is steve schappert of ohio tweeting, as a former football player, i had a great time visiting the university of cincinnati sports medicine folks , learning about their concussion training yesterday. of course, back to school time, and a number of congressmen and senators have been visiting with teachers and school boards. bobby scott, democrat in virginia, tweeted this today, ,oining the newport news mayor a member of the city council there, superintendent of schools, the newport news school board, welcoming their new teachers today. , as well as peters a few other members of congress, have been traveling abroad. senator peters, the democrat from michigan, traveling to

ukraine, posting some pictures on his facebook page. while in ukraine, we visited independence square. i had the opportunity to hear more about young ukrainian's commitment to fighting corruption and securing freedom. we continue to follow members of congress in their districts until they return to washington, d.c., that is tuesday, september 6 when the house and senate get back to work here in the nation's capital. they are looking to finishing up spending bills for the next fiscal year. on zika prevention and research, defense programs and policy, and in the house, possible move to impeach the irs commissioner. on our issues spotlight on c-span, we take a look at voting rights at 8:00 eastern time. three years after supreme court ruling that overturned part of

the voting rights act, courts across the country struck down a number of state laws saying they discriminate against specific groups of voters. here is a preview of the program that includes a discussion on whether the voting rights act is even necessary. >> all the data from the states that turnout data, as opposed to good actions by experts that turn out to be wrong, show voter id does not people -- keep people from voting. early voting does not keep people from voting. in fact, and you can google this , university of wisconsin, professors put out a study on early voting. is that earlyon voting actually hurts turnout. it may decrease turnout by 3% to 4%. the reason being, you all know this, when the campaigns spend the majority of their money on the get out the vote effort. if they have to spread that money out over two weeks, three

weeks, four weeks, apparently it is not as intense, not as , and apparently, people who would normally vote on election day keep saying, i can vote tomorrow, i can vote the next day. apparently it is enough to hurt turnout by a small percentage. that is not me saying it, but a study by these university of wisconsin professors, and other studies that have said. >> the headline i will be taking is that apparently voter id researchers are measures to increase turnout. [laughter] >> i did not say that. >> just one second. i am happy to talk about the

double standard you are employing here and elsewhere. >> the issues spotlight on the 2016 election, saturday here at 8:00 eastern. now a look at the dawn mission spacecraft with mark raymond. the spacecraft is the only spacecraft ever to reach and , from thearf planet jet propulsion lab in pasadena, california. this is about one hour 40 minutes. >> hello everyone. welcome to our lecture. this is an event to learn more about our mission, and get up close and personal with our scientists and engineers. those are the folks that do all the hard work, and you can speak to them personally. before we get started, a couple things to let you know. please, turn off your cell phones and silence him. two, please wait until the and of the presentation before

raising your hand for questions, and if you do have a question, please go over to the microphone and adjust that there so we can hear your question, and we are also recording this, so we want those questions on the recording as well. so let's get started. tonight's spotlight is on nasa's dawn mission, the first space mission to orbit extraterrestrial targets, vesta and ceres. this has been an incredibly successful mission. last month, dawn was awarded the collier trophy, the most prestigious in aviation and space. i'm sure you are anxious to hear more about this mission, and who better to talk about it then its chief engineer and director, mark raymond. [applause]

>> thank you very much. i appreciate your coming. to everyone watching this at home, sorry you're not getting all the free money handed to people here. [laughter] >> but thank you for your interest, as well. i want to talk about the dawn mission, and here we are it jpl. there are many organizations involved in this project. [laughter] >> before i start telling you about the dawn mission, i want to give you context. here we are with a conventional view of the solar system from the 1800s, through the orbits of the inner planets, including earth, mars, jupiter, saturn, and uranus.

apart from an occasional comment and some moons, this is what astronomers knew about the solar system in 1800. and this was a very modern picture because uranus had only been discovered in 1781. so it could not have been drawn 20 years earlier. the planets of mercury and saturn were known even to ancient astronomers. this was a modern view in 1800. for fun, although this is an arrangement of the solar system, showing you the locations of the planets today. on this very day. that is why, if you imagine being here on earth, and earth rotating this way, you can see just after the sun has gone down, mercury and venus knew the sun, and barely catching a glimpse of them now. it in the next few weeks, it will be even easier.

but you can also see jupiter, mars, and saturn on the evening sky. when you leave this evening, mars and saturn will be very nicely positioned with the moon between them. so mars will be below and to the right, and saturn blowing to the left, and below saturn will be anteres. for those of you watching this and are according, it will change that quickly, so you can watch it in the coming days. the moon will be nicely positioned. this is what astronomers knew in 1800. then came along piazzi, he discovered a new planet. modern astronomers had only ever discovered one planet. so this was quite a significant finding. i want to show you a high resolution photograph of what he discovered.

this is the roman goddess of grain, ceres. in this case, the artist has chosen to depict her -- different artists have used different implements, in fact, if you had cereal this morning, you have at least some connection with the goddess. and here is the same chart i showed you a moment ago, but planets in 1800. and here is how they were known in 1801. for two generations it was considered to be a planet. so that makes a nice story and happens to be true. then along comes of this fellow,

trained as a physician, but was a fantastically productive astronomer. he made many, many important contributions to astronomy, which are of value even today. but in 1802 he discovered another new body between mars and jupiter. more importantly for the story and want to describe to you this evening,in 1807 he discovered the fourth new member of the solar system family. i will show you a high resolution of what the good doctor discovered. this is vesta, the goddess of hearth, home, and family. she is not as well understood as many other figures in classical mythology. the reason for that is, she was worshiped privately in the home. so there are fewer surviving records of exactly how she

figured into roman mythology. you have perhaps heard of the vestal virgins, that refers specifically to the goddess vesta herself. she is really depicted in art, but when she is she has a stern , look on her face. one of the things i hope to convince you of, is that the solar system vesta is a much happier place. that is what he discovered. and here is the same picture i showed you earlier, with the jupiter at the outermost planet. you can see vesta, like ceres, fits nicely into this gap between mars and jupiter. for around two generations, it was considered to be a planet. if you would gone to a lecture 200 years ago, and i don't know how many of you did -- [laughter] there would have been two different things about you.

your home internet connection would have been a slower, problematic for your laptops, but you would have learned in school that these were planets, because that is how they were known then. but science and technology advanced, and by the middle of the 19th century, more and more and more bodies were discovered in this part of the solar system until now, it looks more like this. i will invite the people in the front row to confer later on. for those of you in the back, i have added thousands of individual dots to show you the location of this number of asteroids today. i am showing you the ones that are larger than five miles or so across. if i should do all of them, this would be nothing but an uninterpretable, yellow-green mass.

but the point is to show you that this part of the solar system, which we call the main asteroid belt, is very different from the inner solar system, largely devoid of these bodies. if we zoom out, we can see more clearly there is something different about this part of the solar system, both from the inner solar system and the outer solar system. that raises the question, why? why is this part of the solar system different? you are a good audience for asking that question. the next part of my presentation will be to answer that. but i will have to take you back in time before piazzi's 1801 discovery of ceres. i have to take you back to the dawn of the solar system -- get it? the dawn mission. [laughter] this is a large, interstellar cloud of dust.

if you are an amateur astronomer, you may have seen this nebula with your own telescope. it is something you can see. what is happening at the top of the picture, is a brilliant star. the light of the store is so intense, that as it shines down on this interstellar cloud of gas and dust, it is blowing this material away. almost of the operating it in interstellar space. however, right here there is a knot of material so dense that it is blocking the light of the star and preventing it from blowing away the material behind it. that is why this material is sticking here, sticking out like a finger from the cloud. essentially, it is in the shadow of this dense material. deep inside here, the material is growing so dense it is

collapsing under its own weight, and eventually, it will collapse to form a star. that is how our star, the sun, formed 4.6 billion years ago. once you form a star, you can begin to form planets because now you have a swirling cloud of debris with material flying around. sometimes these particles will hit, and break apart. other times, when they hit, they stick together. we can see that happening with this article here. and another particle and another particle. gradually, these grow larger and larger. on the slide, they grow larger to form words. but in space, they grow larger to form rocks. these rocks form so large, they have enough gravity to pull in more material and then they form planets. that is how the rocky planets of

the inner solar system, formed about 4.6 billion years ago. however, when massive jupiter formed, its gravity was so intense that it interrupted this process and deprived material nearby of the opportunity to continue growing to become full sized planets. and so ceres and vesta are called protoplanetary remnants, or simply proto-planets because they were growing to become full sized planets when jupiter cut their growth off. dawn's mission is to fly to the asteroid belt and study these objects. what summarized the scientific motivation for the mission, we wanted to explore ceres and vesta to get insights into physical conditions and processes that were acting at

the dawn of the solar system. we believe these bodies have retrievable records as to what was going on while planets were building. these guys almost made it to full sized planet status. most people think of asteroids and think of chips of rock the size of mountains. but ceres and vesta are different from that. we can put it into context by showing what we have a visited prior to the dawn mission. some are so small i had to put boxes around it to convince you something is there. compared to vesta. when we show you ceres, you can see that ceres and vesta are different, nothing like these little chips of rock. vesta with an equatorial diameter of 350 miles, and ceres

nearly 600 miles in diameter. compared to two of the large bodies, lutetia, they flew by a six years ago, and mathilde, the largest the u.s. visited. and, i have exaggerated the side of -- the size of mathilde. that shows us that vesta and ceres are nothing like asteroids, and are closer to other solar system objects you are familiar with. i'm sure you remember in 2006 when the astronaut union created a new category of solar system bodies, dwarf planets. and all my goodness, how good or be such an inner planets or -- interplanetary only, and not think of pluto's feelings -- how

insensitive. when that category was created pluto was the second object to , be discovered to fit into that category. ceres was discovered 129 years earlier. it was the first one discovered to be a dwarf planet. what this shows me, vesta and ceres are not just pieces of rock, these are big places, worlds. what is so cool about this now for mission is that we are truly exploring uncharted worlds in the solar system. and what could be cooler than that? these are the two largest unexplored worlds in the solar system. i think that is really neat. when you look at a picture like this and compare it with california, it is deceptive because california is flat and these are round, three-dimensional bodies.

they have much more surface area than is suggested in a picture like this. vesta has twice the area of california. we can go into the third dimension and compare that of ceres with the united states. and sure it is not as big as the united states or earth, but it is a big place. it is 37 percent of the area of the contiguous united states. when you think about how vast and varied and beautiful the geography and topology, it offers a lot of diversity. a lot of different things to see in a place like this. i should also point out, in the interest of being clear, obviously this is not the correct color of the united states. this is what scientists call a false color because it encodes other scientific information. the same thing for ceres here, this is not how it would appear

to your eye. this is the surface of ceres, so this rectangle is drawn to the same scale as this. now, let's take a look at this mysterious, alien world that awn has unveiled. from my perspective, i will show you it is getting saturated. but there was a great deal of variety at the surface. one thing that really stands out, many of these bright features like this one right here. this is one of our photographs of this mysterious crater with these bright features just a glowing out. to me, this really just looks like these mesmerizing lights shining out into the cosmos, guiding the way for a spaceship from earth, inviting it to go in

for a closer look. and that is exactly what we have done. i should also say, could these be the lights of an alien city. behink people should embarrassed to ask a question like that, really. this is serious work. that kind of thing betrays a naivete. as we are sending a spacecraft ceres, how could we know that they live in cities? areas,y live in rural underground, in which case they would not have any lights. those kinds of questions do not respect the ways that we advance our knowledge. so again, i don't know how well you can see it in this depiction here, but in addition to the complex distribution of this material, i hope you can see there are many fractures in the surface here which i will come

back to in a moment, but this picture we just got not very long ago from dawn's lowest altitude orbit, and i'll tell you a little bit more about what we now understand to be going on here. while i am, just ahead running here for you, it and other sites on ceres, and in each case, i'll add the diameter of what you're looking at, and ceres -- being named for the roman goddess of agriculture and grain -- all of the features on ceres, including a catour are named from deities of agriculture from around the world or festivals associated with agriculture, and you'll see that in the captions that i'm adding. so what we think has happened in a cature crater, 57 miles in diameter, about 80 million years ago, an asteroid slammed into the surface of ceres and excavated this crater. under ground, there was salt water.

think of this, on this alien world, salt water under ground. perhaps frozen, perhaps liquid. it made its way to the surface in the cold vacuum of space. on the surface, it would freeze and then subli mate, that is transform from being a solid to a gas. that means the water molecules would escape, depart. but they would leave behind the salts that were dissolved in that salt water. so the features there in a catur and elsewhere on series including on this strange mountain we'll look at here, these bright features are salt that's left over from the sup lemation of the subsurface salt water. one of the things intriguing about it is that salt shouldn't remain bright for 80 million years. and so there still remains a question of how it can stay bright even so recently, even until now.

that's suggestions of current active geological processes on ceres. this crater urvara, 600 miles -- 106 miles across but there are larger ones than that on ceres. one of the things interesting you can see in this crater -- well, one of the things you could see quickly is the variety of terrain inside the crater. this one, haulani is a relatively young crater. it has very sharp, defined features, which shows it hasn't been exposed to the rain of interplanetary debris to erode it over time. yalode, again, still not the largest crater but look at these strange fractures in the surface. some going like this and some going right angles to it. we don't fully understand those yet, but it's another indication of a lot of active geology on this body. and this crater, dantu, sometimes you'll hear it mispronounced, has many

fractures running around the interior here, which have yet to be fully explained and dawn is continuing to orbit series, continuing to take pictures and make a wide variety of other measurements in order to reveal the nature of this mysterious allen world and, in fact, right now, series is orbiting closer -- sorry, dawn, i misspoke, dawn is orbiting closer to ceres than the international space station is to earth. as long as there aren't any tall trees there, we'll be okay. [laughter] but this is an illustration of the power that we have to be able to send a spacecraft to a distant dwarf planet, go into orbit around it and get down into a tight orbit to study the nature of this alien world. so that's a quick overview of ceres. let's take a look at dawn's other destination, vesta. this is the best picture we have of vesta prior to the dawn mission. this was taken by hubble space telescope.

if we look at the shape, follow it starting here, going around like this, and it looks pretty much planet-like, until you get down to here, and you would expect a smoother shape hear near the south pole. a smoother curvature. but obviously, that's not what we see. so when astronomers got these pictures at the end of the 1990s, they concluded that what we're seeing is a big crater here, a big impact crater with a mountain in the center. and you'll see pictures elsewhere of large craters with a mountain in the center. maybe you saw them in the pictures i showed you of the large craters on ceres, or perhaps from pictures of mars, the moon and other large-system bodies, most bodies that have craters. the reason for that is the way you make a crater is take a big piece of interplanetary debris, it comes screaming down to the surface and it hits it with so much energy, the surface essentially melts, and it flows

away from the impact, and then it sloshes back. as it sloshes back, it solidifies. and so the mountain in the center is, to me, like a snapshot of the process by which these craters are formed. and so i want to show you an artist's concept of how this crater may have formed on vesta from the impact of a big piece of interplanetary debris. here's interplanetary debris. here's vesta before the impact and now here's vesta after the impact. and it sprayed a huge amount of material, a tremendous number of rocks out into space, and some of those rocks went on their own independent orbits around the sun, and some of them may have even made their way to the part of the solar system where you spend most of your time. if they did and got pulled into our atmosphere by the planet's gravity, they could burn up. as you know on a nice dark night and you're lucky enough to see a meteor, that's something from

outer space burning up in our atmosphere. and if you've seen that, you may actually have seen a piece of vesta from that impact burning up in the atmosphere. now, when i say that, i'm not just being poetical or clever -- but i am poetical and clever. [laughter] i'm being serious, because we now know from the dawn mission that 6% -- think of this, one in every 16 meteorites that seem to fall from earth came from that one impact at vesta a billion years ago. and maybe you know we have meteorites from mars. i'm sure most people have heard of that. maybe you also know we have meteorites from the moon. but we have far, far, far more meteorites from vesta than we do from the moon or mars and those are the only three solar system bodies to which we have linked specific meteorites. in fact, we have more material identified on earth from vesta

than we do from the moon, even accounting for the more than 800 pounds of material that apollo astronauts brought back from the moon. moon. we have significantly more from vesta. we do. here's a picture of a meteorite from vesta. i took these pictures myself at a museum. they're very common. you can find them anywhere. in fact, one of them landed in this box. [laughter] so these are very, very common here on earth. and i think that's really remarkable that we have so many samples of this alien world, and we're able to confirm that with dawn's mission there. that's the meteorite story. but let's get back to vesta itself. here's our view of vesta prior to the dawn mission and this is what dawn revealed and, of