nice place to raise a family and we have a lot of anderent things going on this unemployment rate is higher. it has gone down. we are always a little bit higher than the rest of the state. we have had improvements over the last years. we are all crawling out of this and we have wonderful things happening and i am proud. there has really been an and i thinkdowntown

that the downtown is he really revitalized with new businesses and restaurants and no big department store or anything like that. we are getting more loft apartments. there has been a surge and they are waiting lists and there different contractors building more downtown. that is good. it is what you are looking for andwe have been working this has been successful and a sale to the

developers and they have not .eally decided on will bring a lot of people redevelop looking to or re-event -- reinvent. live inl get people to thinkwntown area and i that a key part of this is that we have celebrated the history proud of thee are

fact that people can visit and go to the top and the did have shipping in this area and not today. heritage.rt of the connects with canada 1938. was built in hairy that, you took of and it was cumbersome. commerce isf astronomical and people come takecanada and this is a and it issinesses

important to have this bridge span andis the second trafficsee the truck sell that it is doing a job and i think that it will only get better and i see a lot of interest from investors on the low side of this state. and thisa doubletree as a

it is worth seeing what we have andthe people are friendly we have nice places to go and i think that we will have a resurgence from the downtown and other businesses coming in and i'm looking forward to >> american history tv is at the thomas edison depot museum. it's one of the many places we are visiting. we will hear about thomas edison and his ties to this city and that building. >> the 20th century would look so different without thomas edison and delightful, the phonograph. these are ordinary, common things but they all came from his brain and his brain came from fort huron. he arrived here when he was seven years old and he was born in 1847.

he started working here in 1859. the train station was built in 1858. he got the job as news butcher at age 12. here, we have a vignette that shows edison's mother yelling at his teacher, mr. crawford, who called edison "addled." i guess today we might say stupid or confused or mixed up. you can see here that it hurt his feelings and angered her. she said, "he's a lot smarter than you are and if you can't teach him, i will." so she took him home and homeschooled him and he always credited his mother for making him the man he became through her kindness, through her teaching him, and a love of learning that he carried on his entire life. he read everything he could, in the evenings as a man, he would read the encyclopaedia britannica.

i think if edison were in school today, he might have been on ritalin or some other medicine for add or adhd. i think he just had so much going on in his head that if he weren't particularly interested in the subject matter at hand, he just didn't want to pay attention and wanted to explore things in his own way. we are on a restored train car from about 1889. this is used to represent the train car thomas edison rode daily as a 12-year-old boy to detroit. it was a news butcher, meaning a news peddler, and he would have a basket and walk up and down the aisle of the train cars selling fruit, candy, cigars, newspapers. that was his job. he would arrive here at the depot at 7:00 a.m. and ride to detroit and come back at 8:00 or 9:00 at night. he would spend his time selling

things to passengers. we have a re-creation of his little chemical laboratory and printing equipment, where he was the first person we know of to print a newspaper on a moving train. he had access to the latest news through the telegraph agents at the train offices and would get that news hot off the presses. he also sold the "detroit free press." during the civil war, he was doing this, right after the civil war battle of shiloh. he convinced the "detroit free press" to give him 1000 copies of the paper on credit instead of buying them ahead of time. so he sold way more copies than he usually did. ever the entrepreneur, he

started raising the price and the closer he got back to port huron and the fewer papers he had back, the price went up. by the time he got back, it went from five cents a copy to $.25 a copy, and he sold them all out and was able to give his mother a nice chunk of change that day. this is his chemical laboratory in the basement which he originally had in the bathroom at home, but his mother objected to the potential hazards from mixing chemicals, so he moved to the basement and scrounged bottles all over town and would buy chemicals and put them in these bottles that he labeled poison to keep people out. he labeled each bottle with a number and he kept a logbook, so he knew what was in each bottle and could safely explore the properties of these chemicals. he had a chemistry book, and he was testing every statement made in the book to see if what it

said in the book would really happen if he experimented. he had to see for himself if what the book said was true. we have some articles found in the archaeology of his boyhood home. the home burned in 1870, five years after his parents were evicted. it was left there until it was excavated in the 1980's. there's no way to know if all of these things came from edison, but we do have printers type that matches the type used first on the train until he was kicked off the train after some of his chemicals from the laboratory copy train car on fire. he moved the laboratory to the basement again.

his father went to the railroad and asked, if he stops this nonsense, can he have his job back? this is edison at the age he was working here. a glint in his eye -- very likable. i think that's how he talked people into letting him do things like have a chemical laboratory on the train, or actually run this train, for example. it takes a great deal of knowledge and skill to run a steam engine like that. he talked to the engineer and the firemen into letting him do it. they knew what it took and apparently had the confidence he could do it. they were wrong in his assessment of his abilities. while they were taking a nap, he was running the train, and they were rudely awakened with a scalding hot splash of dirty, oily water. he really didn't know what he

was doing, and that was the end of his dream to be an engineer, but thank goodness for that because he went on to such great things. this is a telegraph office. trains had telegraph operators because trains are dispatched by telegraph, so each station had a telegraph operator. edison had an interest in anything electrical, especially telegraphs. when he was a boy, it was a relatively new technology. he was four years old when it was invented. at 12, it was still relatively new. he really wanted to learn it badly. he made his own connected between his own house and a couple of neighbors. he was not proficient and his equipment was cobbled from junk. it was in michigan, on his way to detroit, he was acting as a news butcher and he saw the three-year-old son of the station master playing on the track. a boxcar was rolling toward him. nobody set the break or

something. he ran and saved the kid just in time and ingratitude, mr. mackenzie thought tom, or al as he went by as a use, taught him more's code properly. in two months, he had become proficient enough to get his first job as an operator in downtown port huron. it was more of a general store. they sold everything. he lasted there six months. he was not a good employee. he tinkered with all the equipment, he broke the tools. after about six months, they parted ways. mr. walker always had nice things to say. he went to stratford junction, ontario, and got a job as telegraph agent. he ended up moving all over the midwest.

he never stayed anywhere very long. he was always getting in trouble on the job for tinkering with the equipment. at one point, he let a bottle of acid run through the floor and into the bosses desk below. he was fired for that. for a few years, he had three different jobs in three different cities in different places around the midwest. we know he did not last long as an employee and it was important for him to be the boss. that is one of the lessons he learned. it had to be his way or it's just not going to work out for him. >> mary had a little lamb, his fleece was white as snow. everywhere that mary went the lamb was sure to go. >> we have a model of the first phonograph, invented 1877. this was a popular project for people learning machine work. the edison laboratory had

blueprints made so people could make a copy if they wanted to. we have one here. this was recorded on tinfoil and you would wrap tinfoil around the cylinder nice and smooth. you would emboss the tinfoil and the diaphragm of your voice would make it go up and down, and then you would play it back on the other one. this is the only one that used a different recording head and you realize after that that the same would work to record and playback. this is a 50,000 watt lightbulb that was supposed to be a perpetual memorial to edison.

it was lit in 1940 by edison's widow, who came to town for the world premiere of "young tom edison." mickey rooney played thomas edison. here at the museum, we have a newsreel from the time period of mickey rooney arriving on the old train and mrs. edison throws the switch. i think you need welding gobbles to look at it. it is so bright, even on the camera. edison's most famous for the lightbulb, but his favorite invention, he said was the phonograph. he figured out a way to save sound. i can play this if you like. this is a model from 1905.

the cylinder is from 1915. i brought this in for memorial day. ♪ >> he invented the cylinder format. some of your people might not realize that records were shaped like this originally. this one is celluloid. it's called indestructible because the early wax ones were very fragile. this one, i could drop and it would suffer no ill effects.

the heyday of the cylinder machine was roughly 1895 to 1915 or so. in the 20's, they did make cylinder machines. he actually produced cylinders until about 1929. he was always very loyal to his customers, providing them with cylinders as late until 1929. one of his most famous quotes is "genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration." he knew everything was hard work and he was not afraid to do that hard work and he showed that in the laboratory that he built in the basement of his home, where he was testing every statement made in a book about chemistry to see for himself if it was true or not, and it became important to have that work ethic. that showed when he was working on the lightbulb. he went through 1000 different compositions for the filament until he finally found the right one.

hard work and sticking to it served him well in life. port huron is proud of thomas edison. he's probably one of the most famous people in the world. he spent his formative years here and we still have this beautiful train depot that he worked out of. the jewelry store is still there. his parents and family are still in the cemetery. it just shows us that people from a small town can go on to do great things. edison invented the century. >> c-span is visiting port huron to learn more about the city's history. our next stop is fort gratiot, where it will talk about the first white house in the state of michigan. >> in the state of michigan,

there are over 116 lighthouses and this one's claim to fame is being the first. we just came up from the 99 steps to the top of the fort gratiot white house. we have the blue water bridge is to the south and lake huron to the east. we are at the st. clair river at the mouth of the lake. you can see the nice bluewater and what tourists come to this area for. when they hear this is the blue water area, this is what they get to see, and they realize they are not lying. just north to the city, in the city limits of port huron, it gets its namesake from the military port established here

in 1814. charles gratiot what the gentleman who built fort gratiot. he was an engineer in the army and was responsible for building fort gratiot. in response to an attack that could come from canada and protecting the mouth of the river. the decision to add the lighthouse was made around the 1820's. at that time, traffic was increasing on the great lakes, so they felt this was a significant spot. it will become michigan's first. in 1825, congress appropriated money to build lighthouse just south of where we are standing, by the bluewater bridges. it was right at the mouth of the river. it was built by winslow lewis

and the construction of the building was subpar, and it led to deterioration and soon after, it would collapse with a november storm. when the original tower collapsed, the need for a new tower was evident. a new location. the tower was moved several hundred yards to the north on lake huron and congress appropriated about $5,000 to build the tower in 1828. construction began, and by december of 1829, the new tower was completed and lantern was lit in december. the lighthouse laid a very significant role because you had mariners going up and down the st. clair river. it was a narrow channel that was known at that time as rapid. the water was quick moving and swift. guiding the mariners towards that channel in making sure they were in line with that area was very important. the light provided safe harbor

for mariners on lake huron, which could prove to be treacherous, especially in october or november. it's a very important lighthouse for those reasons. the fort is operational from time to time. it is a military installation, so as the needs came to be, the fort would be re-garrison and used. it was re-garrison when the cholera epidemic affected the surrounding area. it was re-garrisoned during the civil war. the 27th michigan infantry would be mustered into service and learn their tactics and training at fort gratiot, and then would go on to kentucky and other points south.

after the civil war, you will see dramatic changes at the fort gratiot light station. there is an increase in traffic for westward expansion, so the site here is going to grow. the lighthouse services also realizing that a lot of their lighthouses are out of date and be an upgrade. this would see a dramatic change during the civil war. in 1861, they begin construction on the tower to extend it from 65 feet to 82 feet. this was kind of standard at the time. you see these towers and certainly become taller and they have a greater range. the site would see a significant change in 1871, the addition of a fog signal building. it was actually smoke. in 1871, a great fire raged across michigan in the smoke bellowed out and created a difficult situation for mariners to navigate. so, they added the fog signal building that sat on the north end of our property, and 10

years later, another fire came through the state and a second fog signal was added. at that time, that fog signal's purpose was guiding mariners through the river. when the lighthouse was built in 1829, the contract approved the building of the tower and a single keepers dwelling and the outhouse. in 1873, it was determined it was no longer suitable and they would start construction of a new dwelling, which was the keeper's duplex. in 1874, that was completed and the fog signal buildings would run their course and be out dated by the turn-of-the-century. in 1900, a new brick fog signal building would be added. you wouldn't see many changes until the 1930's.

at that time, a new dwelling was built, so you had not only the duplex, but another building. at the same time that the single keepers dwelling was built, the coast guard, who was in operation at that time, would build a new coast guard station. it was built 60 feet from the single keepers swelling, and although they were on the same property, they were run by two separate government agencies. in 1938, they ran a four bay equipment building and the site would stay unchanged until world war ii. at that time, the site becomes a training location for the coast guard during the war. the landscape around the light station would also change. in peacetime, the site had gardens and an orchard. they were hedges that were actually shaped like freighters.

during wartime, all of that goes away. in 2010, the site was transferred to st. clair county. we began restoration of the site, which began with a tower. we started looking at the other buildings and their needs for restoration. we started looking at getting grants for the site. it's a 25 year plan to restore the site and bring it back to its 1930's appearance. most of the buildings that were here were established by the 1930's, so it was a natural fit for the time period we have one building in the keepers duplex we are restored to the 1930's appearance and what it does is allows visitors to get a glimpse of what the building would look like when it is restored. this is a unique part of michigan's history.

we get a lot of visitors that love lighthouses and come from all over the united states and canada. we are right next to an international crossing. i think what we are trying to do here is show that we can become a destination for tourism. there is a lot of unique sites around the area including the light station in that it provides a venue for people to catch a glimpse into the local area's past. >> the bluewater bridge is a nice little river between the city of port huron that separates the two countries, two different cities. i have been fortunate to watch this structure go and become one of the most important infrastructures in north america. >> the traffic that uses the

bridge initially, a large part of it is recreational travel. a lot of people use this as a gateway. it is 160 miles to toronto from here. if we had to go down south of the great lakes, it would take us twice as long. it is that much of a difference. >> as a kid, i used to go across it on my bike all the time. as an adult, i would go over there and do dinner and visit friends over there. the u.s. dollar was really strong back in the day, so we used to go over there and get gas. >> port huron is an interesting destination, crossroads. we had fory days, trappers that came through here.

lumbering was a big part of our area commerce. trees were felled and floated down to markets further south of here. and, with the railroad, that actually increased our agricultural trade because farmers could get their produce to market. trains were a very important part of this area and its development. 1859, the canada railroad built a train depot on this side and wanted to connect to markets west of here, such as chicago, which was big back in that day. the trains that would come to this area would stop at point edwards and uncouple all of these train cars put them on a , car ferry. this area is actually known as the rapids. imagine very fast currents and this car ferry with all these freight, these heavy cars having to cross this area one by one. it took a long time to get these trains across and onto chicago, but the market was that important that they did that.

the railroad traffic started increasing incredibly, to the point where they built a tunnel underneath the st. clair river that connected both canada and america in 1891. the st. clair tunnel is still in operation today, though it is now a second tunnel. the bridge construction started in 1927. this was after detroit opened its international bridge. the ambassador bridge, 1924. the construction of the bluewater bridge started in 1937 and was completed in 1938. as you see, the bridges behind me. -- the bridge is behind me. the original span is furthest from us. the first unit that the bridge was opened, 61,000 cars crossed it. they established a regular bussing system so people could continue to shop in each other wash downtown. we were always friends and neighbors.

we always crossed the way. it is not like the bridge was the first door, is just another doorway that was open. >> i came to the bridge in 1972 as a summer job as a toll collector and ended up staying 38 years. it was 38 years before i left. i was able to come in as a toll collector, like i said it was a , pretty small operation, a quiet border crossing. basically what happened is as , traffic started to grow and then there was a completion of i-69 between lansing and port huron, and the 402, once that was completed, that provided a straight shot from the east to the west. it was a great commercial route for the trucking companies because they could come across this structure, come from new york, go into canada, come to canada, and come right to the bluewater bridge and continue on out west with very little interference. >> the need for the second span

, that became obvious as they tracked all the traffic that came across each year. 47% of the traffic was passenger, but each year, we can see the increase in truck traffic. about every 10 years, truck traffic doubled. they knew they had to do something, so they started doing research on building a second span. they wanted to have it look very similar, so they actually presented different plans so that it was still a beautiful bridge to look at. >> we started building another bridge. i think we opened it in 1997. once we opened that in 1997, we closed the original one down and resurfaced that and rebuilt it. in 1999, we had two structures. by having two structures, it made the flow greater for the commercial aspect. you know we're the second , busiest commercial crossing in north america. so to have three lanes of , traffic each direction allowed us to separate the traffic and give us a much smoother flow.

the best thing about this crossing is that we have two structures, we have redundancies, so we have more lane capacity than other crossing linking canada and the united states. we are able to move traffic a little bit more efficiently. >> for obvious reasons, september 11 did a lot to put a damper on the traffic in this area. >> that day, everything came to a screeching halt. you know traffic didn't move for , hours. commercial traffic was backed up for days because they did not know what was going on. so they didn't know what kind of , threat that would be to the structure and whatnot, so everything came to a halt. after that, our life at the bluewater bridge changed. >> wait times increased as security became tighter. before, in my days growing up here in town you could get , across the bridge with your birth certificate and a quarter. in 2009, it was required you had

a passport or enhanced driver's license and it's not as easy to , go across now. >> traffic does not flow as quickly as it used to back in the day. by the traffic increasing, you tend to see longer lines than before. before, you never thought about it. if you wanted to go to canada and have lunch, you would go to canada and have lunch and be back in an hour and half. but now, you have got to think. if i'm going to come into the united states it's a process , now. you have to allow time for customs to do their job and keep our country safe. >> as with any highway, any thoroughfare there is always , maintenance that needs to be done. right now, they are doing masons. -- doing maintenance. it is an eyesore, but it is necessary. the current project has been going on less than a year. the bridge has become a symbol. it is on our first responders patches and is instantly

recognizable as the city of port huron. >> a lot of people take this for granted. so amazing to be able to wake up in one city and and end up in a different country in a matter of minutes. i have traveled a lot, but there is nothing like this location. it is beautiful, it is friendly, and it is very accessible. >> welcome to port huron. c-span visits knowlton's ice museum of north america, where owner chuck knowlton will take us inside and show us around his collection of ice industry memorabilia, which is one of the largest in the country. museum.owntown art the ice industry actually is an industry gone by. everybody knows what packaged ice is today, but the real ice industry was 100, 200 years ago,

when they used to cut ice out of the rivers and lakes for all kinds of uses, and it became an extremely large industry because everybody needed ice to cool their food for their family. it became one of the 10, possibly one of the five, largest industries in the united states at that time, and it continued on for 100 years at least and got into the mid-1900s, and after world war ii, it pretty much died off because of mechanical refrigeration and home refrigerators that really took over. in the early years, ice was a new thing to people, that it could actually cool foods and keep them fresh. as it came on the scene -- of

course, in the older days, they did use salt to maintain meat products and such, but as the ice came on the scene, they found it would work better, and it became a big deal to use ice to haul all kinds of food. meats and fruits, across the country on rail lines. iceas the -- to start using in drinks and stuff was a novelty and the wealthy did , start using it. in the white house, on the political scene, they got the best ice in early years, where a lot of the run-of-the-mill people out in the countryside did not have it in early years. they did they found ways to chip off, make it into little cubes, and have ice for drinks. here is probably the most

well-known part of the ice industry, ice picks. here are several examples of different ice picks. here are metal ice picks and the usual ice picks right here that most people are familiar with . a lot of them had advertisements on it. this one is coca-cola advertising on this ice pick. others had the name of the ice company on it. most of them did because it they were good advertisements. down here are more different types of ice picks. here is one with a bottle opener on the back of it. these are some of ice picks over , here along with ice scrapers. a lot of these ice scrapers they , would scrape the top of the block and get crushed ice for their drink. another staple in the ice industry was ice tongs. almost every house had ice tongs because they would need to carry

the ice at times, maybe if the y made a delivery, if the iceman made a delivery and they would have to take the ice themselves and put it in the ice box. not on all occasions, but sometimes. a portrait of the ice industry really developed in many areas in the northern states because the northern states had a cold climate and a lot of them were able to have thick ice on the rivers and lakes, so in port huron, as well as other cities and towns around the northern states, they started to cut the ir ice around rivers and lakes. it developed as the industry was developing throughout the whole country. in port huron, they would cut it out of the black river and lake huron in the late 1800s and early 1900s.

just in our area in the port , huron area, for many years, there were over 30 ice companies just in our area. these ice companies would thrive and be very competitive against each other. some of the companies would be smaller, maybe just a part time guy that was making ice, dragging it out of the river behind his home and selling it. some companies were very large as well and become industrial , companies, which would have employees, and also, it was a very hard industry and cold. the employees would have to be big guys and tough to stand the elements. some of the dangers were that the horses that pulled the plows cut the ice on the lakes and rivers could actually fall through into the water. not only the horses, but the

men. this was very dangerous and on occasion, people would drown. and also when they were storing , the ice in big storage facilities, they would cut it pound 300 pound, 400 block and go into the storage and, at times, people were killed. my dad had mentioned to me that he had read that when someone was killed in the ice company, that they would take the afternoon off for that fatality. ow would be pulled by a horse, and the operator would stand back here and he will guide the club. the horse would be out there pulling the plow. the plow would not cut all the way through the ice. it would only score the ice. depending on how to fix the ice was, that would depend on how far they wanted the saw to go down in the ice.

as they were pulling, of course, if they got too far down in the ice, the horse could actually fall through the ice. in many occasions, the horse would fall through the ice, and i had read where they would feed the horse old meal so it would float better, so they can get the horse out of the lake or river. the heyday was from the mid-1800s to the early 1900s. needed ice to keep their meat and foods cold. it would not only be the people that worked on the lakes and rivers to cut the ice, but it would also be the people that would take care of the storage facilities, and then the distribution would be horse and wagon, and all of the distribution people that would take to distribute the ice to all the homes, because every home had an ice box, so this was

a very labor intensive industry employed an awful lot of people. to have ice in your home changed things because you could keep things cool much longer. no would be a good example. before, they would milk the cow, and use the milk, and that would be about it. now, with ice in the ice box, they can actually put the milk in the ice box and keep it or a day or two days or more. this icebox year is a good example of a very quality, possibly expensive icebox of the day. larger large icebox, than the other ones around here, and it is very well made. it is a beautiful ice hawks. this is the area they would -- this is a beautiful ice box. it would probably hold 50 pounds

of ice. a lot of the ice boxes would hold 25 pounds. this will hold quite a bit of ice. the ice is up at the top here because the cold air goes down. it would flow this way and go down to the lower area where you'd keep the food. this is an example of the inside of ice boxes. they were very, very quality and clean at the time. several ice wagons in our museum, but this here is the oldest one. this was used in the late 1800s, and is a small ice wagon. it almost looks like a stagecoach even, it is so old. it was used for ice delivery and it would deliver to the houses. it would take blocks of ice driver would take the blocks of housewife and put it into her icebox. this is the scale when he would

weigh the ice, put it on the scale and see how much it , weighed before he took it in. is an ice card, and the housewife would put whichever number -- amount of ice she would like to have. in this case, she would tell him she wanted 25 pounds of ice. if it was this way, she would be telling the driver she wants 50 pounds of ice. that way, the driver would not have to make two trips into the house. the natural ice industry has always been very interesting. natural ice was ice that was cut out of the rivers and lakes. that is what they cold it, not july -- they called it, not twice. when they started to produce ice with mechanical refrigeration, they called it artificial ice.

that's funny to me because ice is ice, whether it is frozen by nature or it is frozen by men. a piece of ice is a piece of ice, but not in their eyes. the natural ice suppliers really fought the oncoming onslaught of companies that were going to make ice with mechanical refrigeration. some of the advertisements that i have seen in our museum, that my dad has collected really show , the natural ice industry try ied to ward off the mechanical ice industry coming on the scene. it was interesting. they really fought it off. wonanical refrigeration it out. they used large ice compressors that would be used in ice plants that would make big blocks of ice and they would pump it out

by the hundreds of tons a day. mechanical ice refrigeration industry really started in the very early 1900s and came on the scene probably in the 1920's and 1930's. by the time we got to world war ii, home refrigerators were on the incline. after world war ii, they took over. the icehe 1950's, industry delivering ice boxes wasnd ice almost dead. it still continued a little bit for people out in the country and in cottages, people that use d ice in the outlying areas. the real reason for our museum being here is to educate the public on an industry gone by.

so many kids today, if you think about it, they have no idea how life was 100 or 200 years ago. life was tough. it was very tough. they didn't have the conveniences that they have today. if they come into our museum they will see how tough the ice , industry was back then and how tough keeping food was. they just couldn't go to the refrigerator and get all the things that they can today. ice really was the pioneer in making that happen. it was the starting of people having the foods they want when they want them. >> we are at lakeport state park just north of port huron, michigan. it is a state park. back in june of 1962, this was owned by the united auto workers union members would come up here and spend the summers with her family.

this park, at one time, was the site of the founding convention for the students for a democrat society. sds. they came in here to write what has become known as the port huron statement. the students for a democratic society were a group formed in ann arbor, michigan by al haber, tom hayden, and a few others. those are the famous names. they wanted to bring about a more democratic society. they figured that they needed a manifesto to bring that about. so they came here to write their , manifesto. sds was a student group. again, they wanted to build a more democratic society. they looked at the problems of the united states and said these come about because of a lack of democracy.

them, we needx more. and so, they came together here, working from an original draft by tom hayden. they broke it up into pieces, gave it to about -- groups of 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 people and they worked on their sections. tom hayden wrote a draft of what became the port huron statement, brought it here and divided it up. each group worked on a particular section. four days later, they came together and voted on the final pace. it went forward. putting together sds, why they thought it was important, they looked around america and they saw the problem of racism and poverty and political apathy. they thought that the best way to address that was to get

students involved. they thought specifically college students should be change agents. the reason why is because universities are distributed across the country and colleges students have intellectual skills and time to work on social problems and bring about a more democratic society. influence between the time period of 1962 into the 1970's was quite big. the port huron statement was a catalyst for the 1960 student movement. it really got the ball rolling in the sense that college students felt that they belong ed and that they mattered and they could make a change in society. it wasn't just the port huron statement, it was a lot of the work that sds did afterwards. they would send people to college campuses to organize chapters and recruit members.

they grew until a contentious split in 1968 it was quite a big -1969. movement that was just done through hard work, mail campaigns, and people talking to other people. they wanted to introduce a new left. a new left broke with communism. they didn't have this sort of completely thought out system. they instead advocated for what is called participatory democracy. they thought that if you make democracy available to everybody and that everybody has a say in the decisions that affect their lives, you could bring about a better society. what that society will look like, we don't know. they are explicit in the port huron statement to not really give us with the end goal is. they just said, we think that all human beings have undeveloped capacities for

reason freedom and love. , the goal is to set up society to foster those capacities. what is important in the port huron statement, it is interesting to look at the first sentence. "we are people of this generation, bread in modern infort, houston now housed now in-- toversity living, looking the world we inherit." in that particular sentence, they are saying we are university students, but we are worried about the future. let's look at the world that we are about to inherit. if you look at the majority of the statement, it doesn't give this complete political philosophy. it looks at the problems but they are about to get. systemic racism the cold war, , and political apathy amongst the people. not to mention widespread poverty.

sds thought that these problems , these social problems came , about the has of a lack of democracy, so their fix was more democracy and not less. there were about 60 students cannot get closer than that 60 students, and they came , here because it had the infrastructure. right now, there's just this wonderful, lovely park. at the time, there were a bunch of different cabins and a large kitchen area so that they could cook and sleep and hold all the people that were here. the goal again was to work on this draft that tom wrote. they used a participatory democracy method to try and write the document. we brought tom here for the 50th

anniversary of the port huron statement in 2012. tom just does not slow down. it is kind of amazing that he is in his early 70's and he just keeps moving, and he keeps writing. it is incredible. when we brought him here, he came and bolted out of the car and went right to the water and was standing there, looking out over the water. i have got to admit, it seemed like he was home. i think the port huron statement has a sort of long, slow influence. it wasn't right out of the gate influence, but today, there is many people, many activists who are working on things like participatory budgeting. new york and san francisco have money set aside for local areas

and then the people get together and decide how that money will be spent. all of that, i think is , traceable back to the port huron statement. and participatory democracy. they tried to build the student movement, they tried to build a democracy movement. and then, it fractured in 1968 and 1969, when a group of sds members went to a more revolutionary left and espoused violence. tom and al haber wanted to to be more of a reformist and it fractured and it was all over. before sds broke up, there were almost one million members. college students around the country, campuses everywhere at

had sds chapters. it became very integral to the peace movement, the antiwar movement, and just the general 1960's student movement. it was hard to break them apart. they all sort of became one and the same. how the port huron statement is represented today is one of two ways, or maybe two of two ways. one is this idea that i say that it is a very noble document looking for participatory democracy, wanting to be more inclusive and bring people together and have more democracy, not less. of course there is another group , of people that say it is a radical hippie document, they are a bunch of degenerates that wrote it and that sort of thing. read it and decide for yourself. what i would like people to understand about the port huron

statement is that we haven't achieved our country yet. we are not there. we need to do more. each one of us, and that democracy can open up the society for us. the political life is one way to bring us together. we can talk to each other, we can work together to solve shared problems and make this a more just and democratic society. the port huron statement ends in an ominously haunting statement. if we see the attainable let it be known that to do so to avoid the unimaginable. i think the unimaginable that they had there was the cold war and nuclear war.

a lack of democracy and a continuation of the rampant racism in america at the time. that scared them, and that moved them to organize and get people to join. >> standing by. waiting for entry. >> ok, we got radio, gps. [blaring horn] >> this ship was built, started

in 1942. untilled all the way up 2003, i believe. this is probably the best money the government spent because this ship is ideally designed for what it was supposed to do . it did that job. because, i am not blowing smoke, that is a good military term, is because we had all these people that were qualified and wanted to be here and took care of this vessel or they were -- vessel and were very proud of it. >> the ship itself is 180 feet long, and it was one of 39 that were built. they were built in a rush in world war ii. the ship is 37 feet wide. it weighs, when it was fully dressed, approximately 1100 tons. it draws 13 feet of water, and

it is built to crush ice and also deploy buoys. so it is an icebreaker when you , need it. >> this vessel goes back to 1944. the coast guard bought a bunch of these. they planned them by the lighthouse service before world war ii. when world war ii came around, they started building them like crazy. it's important to understand what was done, how it was done, and what this particular ship did. this ship was in the atomic bomb tests in the northwest pacific, it made the northwest passage and it served the government for 71 years. >> one of the very extreme the plymouth that this ship made was at the end of world war ii it was in san diego and honolulu. at the end of the war in 1936, the government wanted to continue to test atomic weapons, so this ship, the

bramble, was actually deployed to set buoys with the ship at the marshall islands and bikini atoll. in 1946, it participated in and its function was to put the german, japanese submarines, the american ships in position for the task in the bikini atoll. the bombs were blown off in two different locations. one was 500 feet above the water , and so, it was an aerial task. -- aerial test. then they look at the effect it -wise, and they look at the effect on the atoll itself. there were 192 ships that were in that class. the bramble was a very busy ship and it did a lot of work.

the second extraordinary thing therehe bramble did is were two other ships in 1957, and they circumnavigated, they went through the north wall they broke ice, they set buoys and set commercial routes so that we could get east coast-west coast and west coast-east coast instead of going through the panama canal. they could go through the north pole. they had to deal with 20 feet of ice. they had to deal with very cold temperatures. of the three ships that made the passage, it is called the northwest passage. the bramble is the last of those three ships. right 20.

>> we were responsible for safe operations and navigation of the vessel. we also worked all of the buoys and worked on some light houses from alpena, michigan, all the way down to almost toledo, ohio. we were responsible for them. when the winter months came along, we were tasked with icebreaking. keeping the shipping channels open as long as we could. he broke ice on the way down to the rep. rouzer: plant. uge plant.river ro it allowed the commerce to work as long as it possibly could with the weather restraints. all of the commerce echoes on in

the great legs depended on navigating in those waters, and in the summertime, too. it's a demanding job. you break the day up into 12 sections. crew isthing on the that as the ship was breaking ice, it is very noisy. you can imagine the ship is be signed to ride up on the ice and break it. you have got the crew down below, and are not getting good rest, they are not getting good sleep. you can get to a point where you are no longer effective, and it was dangerous to work on the big ships. you call the captain and say i will see you at 6:00 and the morning, when the sun comes up, and we will start breaking ice again and get you in the river rouge. >> here we are.

basically, the ship is split berthing main areas. one afs one art and 1 -- t and one forward. they had up to 57 crew members, which at that point, you had three in the rack. head wise, you did not want to sit up too fast if you were in these racks. as time went on, we wanted more comfort in these 1970's and 1980's, the three stack, which is very tight, we only have two in a stack. so, the two, you had room galore. if you sat up, or wanted to get up, you had room to not get a head-knocker.

i was absolutely taken a back. we had a crew member that served , thee crew as the doc medic in charge of keeping everybody healthy and alive. i got absolutely blown away. from huntsville, alabama said we are going to fix this up the way it was when i was a onboard ship. he had it absolutely to the point of a level four trauma center. he had got everything that will keep you alive for at least two hours until you can get transport and gone to a level two or a level one center. one of the things that makes this ship so durable is it is

round, and it is very curvy, and it has got a big stainless steel propeller on it, which does not break like a bronze one would. the word out on the main engine room of the bramble, what we are looking at is we are looking at two main engines. diesels,tric motor engines that are going to be on trains. they drive an electric generator and they parallel together and they go into this power board here. this old technology is actually technology that is going to be the most reliable, and that is because we are breaking ice. when you break ice, you are going to be looking at shock loads like that, hitting ice.

if you hooked up these engines directly with the propeller, you would snap the shaft. what we have got here, you have got an engine, driving a generator, and the generator driving an electric motor, and the electric motor drives the propeller. is still inhnology use. it is about as good as you are going to get your you are going to get reliability galore and you are going to get as minimal amount of damage as you can to this ship's compulsion system -- pulsion system, because you have got beat electric motors and generators that are like shock absorbers. bolts, but they are putting a lot of power out there to push through the ice to let

the bow drop. we are entering the officer country, which is the aft end of the ship. room, going into the war where the officers meet where they have their morning and afternoon meetings. have one of the most proud pieces of the ship what we consider the heart and , soul of the ship, the ship's bow. , whichhe original bow out in frontood for all to see. what we want to do is marry back the soul of the ship, even though we are not any longer in service, we are a ship that is not registered and is not property anymore of the u.s. government. we want to marry that u.s. which they keep

forever, marry it back to the ship. the curator was very gracious to get us a contract so that we could keep the ship's bell and iesp all those coast and crew members retired and present current with the heart of the ship. >> it's good for people to come and see this place and understand how they live, work and what they did here are in and that should not be lost. that is a definite part of the fabric of this country. this is coast guard history of this country. that is why the museum is important. it should stay as long as it can here. >> it is a time capsule. it is american history. it started under a war environment, and it had its makings to do a big job and to continue that job as part of history. it's a lesson.

our hope is to get it to the point where we can bring up the youngsters behind us and have one that doesn't have a path to to be a captain, a mechanic, a sailmaker, to learn about what happens when you pull together exactly what you can do. >> our visit to port huron is an american history exclusive. we showed it today to introduce introduce you to c-span's city tour. for five years, we have traveled to cities across the u.s. to explore. you can watch more of this at c-span.org/citiestour.

>> c-span continues on the road to the white house. need serious leadership. this is as real as it gets. >> we will make america great again. ahead, live coverage of the presidential and vice presidential debate on c-span, the c-span radio app, and www.c-span.org. and then, on tuesday, october 4, vice presidential candidates mike pence and senator tim kaine debate at longwood university in virginia. on sunday, october ninth, washington university in st. louis hosts the second presidential debate, leading up to the third and final debate between hillary clinton and donald trump, taking place at the university of nevada, las vegas, on october 19. my coverage of the debate on c-span. listen on the radio app or anytime on demand at www.c-span.org. a washington times reports

that new e-mails today show the clinton foundation using huma abedin to arrange meetings. the story says that in one exchange, the head of the clinton global initiative, asked her to x-ray these are visa for a soccer player. she thought she might be able to speed up the interview, but said she was worried about crossing lines. we will hear more about that in about seven minutes. right now, a look at donald trump's plans for immigration policy. the new york times writes today that mr. trump, tempering the tone of his hard-line approach to tackling immigration reform, said he wants to come up with a plan that is really fair to address the millions of undocumented immigrants now in the country. we talked to a reporter to learn more. is so hard for donald

trump to retreat on immigration, part of nbc's first read this morning. joining us on the phone is mark murray. this really has been a centerpiece issue for donald trump since he announced his candidacy in june of last year. he says he is not retreating, but clearly there is rethinking within the trump campaign. what is going on with regard to the emigration and deportations? >> the 14 month the donald trump has been running for president, immigration has been the consistent, unambiguous policy ,hing that he has campaigned on where a lot of times, on other matters of foreign policy, middle east, you sometimes heard one thing. inconsistent on immigration. one of the consistencies has been when it comes to deporting of the 11ation million undocumented immigrants in the united states.

donald trump has said that the united states needs deportation. all these people must leave, one way or another. then, they can come back. they all have to leave. he has been consistent about that up until his campaign said to be determined on whether there should be a deportation force. host: let us go back to august of last year. this interview with chuck todd, political director on board the trump plane with donald trump, august of last year. >> the executive order gets rescinded. scind thatl re one, too? you will the poor children? deport children? >> we will work them. murray, those are his

words. guest: they have to go. again, he has been very consistent over this last several months, repeating that in a today show town hall in april, 2016. given where we are to have months ago before the election, there are at least some voices in the campaign that seem to be suggesting that maybe there was a little bit of wiggle room that they might be able to have there. important tois note, we have not heard from the candidate himself on this. i am a big believer that the big policy changes come from the candidate and not from a campaign manager or people who have attended a meeting, but from the principal himself. it will be interesting what donald trump has to say on this on the days forward. host: clearly, there are two issues going forward. donald trump needs to expand his base. one way to do so is to bring in the hispanic vote. the other side of the coin is he

has been very consistent on this issue, and that is why so make behind likes and supported him. that could change if his views change, if they evolve. guest: that is the argument why it is going to be hard for him to retreat on this issue. he is caught between two forces, one his past consistent statements on this, and the base that has been eating up this type of rhetoric. any type of change might end up creating a bit of a problem for donald trump here. steve, you mentioned his ability to win over latino voters, one other theory, they do decide to retreat as difficult as it might be, not only do they need to win over latino voters, this is maybe more of an appeal of suburban america, swing voters, to be able to say, look, we not that incendiary towards latinos, muslims, african-americans, to gentlerto put a kinder, face on his campaign rhetoric to make him more appealing to swing voters. host: it has only been a couple

of days where paul manafort was forced out. is this part of the change where -- we hearing about a pivot. the new campaign manager might be bringing to the trunk campaign?-- the trump sayingwhat he has been all the stump last week, appeal to african-american voters, and also his line about having regrets, all of this coming peopleo an apology for web been offended by his rhetoric, but it is also worth parts of donald trump have not changed. tweetorning, he was in a storm. it remains to be seen whether this is kellyanne conway's doing or this represents something more fundamental about donald trump and his rhetoric going

forward, and i would suggest that at least right now, it seems to be a whole lot more of the former, kellyanne conway, rather than the letter, a big change by donald trump. mark marie, thank you as always, for being with us. thank you asy, always for being with us. this from washington journal. now, he serves as our president, good morning. what is your organization? guest: it is a nonprofit educational foundation. the way we educate the public is by finding what the government is up to, and telling people about it. we do that through a variety of methods, the freedom of information act, which allows you to ask the federal government and the estate versions of this law, for documents about what the

government is doing. if they do not turn over the documents over to you or withhold them improperly or ignore you, can sue in federal court. can you describe the role that you had as far as bringing e-mail to light? about we did not know mrs. clinton's e-mails. a lot of people in the administration did, but we did not. we were asking about things like benghazi, the special government , the top eight of mrs. clinton, and they were not giving us clinton e-mails. we shut the case down. we had this revelation through the been godly litigation -- through the benghazi litigation that there were documents they had not looked out. they told the new york times it was clinton e-mails. one of them is before judge discovery, and

discovery by clinton aides, and led to some news last week about mrs. clinton's testimony, written testimony through judicial watch for the court. from one ofadline the stories that came out said that the judge would not allow all deposition of mrs. clinton. why were you looking for that? were you looking for that particularly? guest: it is the best way to get information from someone. you can follow up immediately. we were seeking three hours of testimony. other officials had already testified. it was in the clinton's e-mail system. askas a common request to for her testimony. the judge realized, recognized that she was a high government official and that there were less onerous ways to get the testimony. it is not exactly everything we wanted, but certainly, it is more than mrs. clinton wanted to give, which was to answer no

questions under oath. now, she had to answer questions under oath in written form. fromill be getting answers mrs. clinton hopefully soon and she has 30 days to respond. host: what is information, out to the public? guest: presumably. we hope to make all of the information and testimony we get public and we will be filing it with the court as well. it will be available to the american people. host: ultimately, what are you looking for? there have been a lot of examinations of the e-mail processes. what is different? guest: the freedom of information and ask what have covered mrs. clinton's e-mail. it has been a big problem getting it's completely searched. as a result, the court has been upset by the way the law has vended by the clinton's e-mails practices. her understanding of the freedom of information act is very much of interest to the court, and those are the types of questions we will be asking. you have heardss

about and the information you found out from the e-mails. if you want to ask him these are the numbers. one of the advocates or representatives of the clinton campaign was on the show ,esterday, the campaign manager asked about the request made, the judge's decision and about secretary clinton providing those e-mails and responses. want to get a response to what he has to say about it. we will come back to you and get yours. guest: as you mentioned, the judge has set a deadline whereby the group in question has to submit those. the secretary will get to work right away on answering them. us step back and look at the origin of all of this. >> the right wing and republicans in congress are not satisfied with the answers at the career professionals that

the fbi and department of justice gave. they said there is no case here. this is another example of a right-wing group tried to keep the questions coming and keep this issue alive. the american people have all the information, the e-mails have been released, and they have enough to make a judgment at this point. we at the campaign just want to move on and talk about the issues that people actually care about in this election like jobs, college affordability, and health care. >> et al. like a no. no.s -- that sounds like a some of the statements include not satisfied, the people have all the information, heidi respond to those? guest: the clinton camp tried to , and the argument court rejected it. what i hear there is a little wiggle room as to whether they will even respond in a timely way without objecting in

a way that makes the answers available to us or the election. will they let politics intrude on the process? we have all the e-mails coming out that have led the clinton foundation to start, at least to say, eventually they will s top taking for donations. the e-mails have forced them to do that. the name-calling is juvenile and surprising from the campaign. i do not know why they are screaming about judicial watch when it is the court requiring them to answer questions. host: when does judicial watch want them to submit the questions? guest: we are going to look at the very carefully and recognizing there is a 30 day window at least for mr. clinton to respond. -- mrs. clinton to respond. we are going to move quickly. host: get a hero quickly or not? --did i hear that quickly or not? guest: they may seek relief from

the court. host: judicialwatch.org. tom our guest. ,go ahead. caller: thank you very much. judicial watch, thank you for your work. frackingme, is the solvent on the cake of the clintons. realistic election 20 years ago, 15 years ago, she would not have a political life. there would be nothing that she could do, and besides the political life, she would probably be indicted for these things. i come from a background, 60 some odd years ago, and i went presidents who put a

line through glass-steagall, and become too e-mails or blatantly show that the foundation to foreign donations and she was secretary of state. there is no way on god's green earth that this would have been allowed in any other era. the headstinks from down. if she's trying to blame all the subordinates below her, the dnc, the foundation managers for doing this, this is going to be a disaster for politics in america. host: thank you. guest: i think it is interesting there is a bipartisan concern about mrs. clinton. we have seen that a lot that there are people of the left who are concerned about the government who have concerns about mrs. clinton's conduct. to put everything in the context of the election, and i guess that is her right.

the rule of law has to apply whether or not one is running for public office. this is clinton wants to use the excuse of running for presidency to avoid answers and mischaracterized those of us >> i wanted to ask you gentlemen what his career used to be a priest on getting the e-mails released. cross of the clintons either ends up dead from suicide or a plane crash. better have some bodyguards. i'm not worried about that. we have been battling clinton corruption since the 1990's, as she will be happy to tell you. mrs. linton is someone who scares people sometimes because of her misconduct. i'm not terribly concerned about that. host: democrat from windsor,

maryland. caller: i'm at first a christian. what you guys are talking about this is a way to derail mrs. clinton. are you just doing this so you can get a little bit more work nottrump, why are you guys investigating mr. trump on the university? can you tell me one single thing clinton has done that has given

-- somebody who lost a job -- i will take my answer from you are you this is all a creation of mrs. clinton appeared we did not know about the e-mails. it was the revelations last year that led to our pursuing this. we were not sure if she was running or all this. -- we had a right to these records whether or not she ran for office. it is mrs. clinton was trying to offend the system, and the state department is slow walking the release of these records. the election is intruding on the rule of law here. we are trying to stop that from happening by getting answers in a timely way that we should have gotten in some cases years ago. but she hid her e-mails and

these are the concert wants is for when you do something wrong or it -- when you do something wrong. these are circumstances of her own making. we are always looking at mr. trump. he will see what happens there. i don't find many complaints about his university. lawsuit a class action which deserve skepticism. he has testified on the -- under a. -- under both. both. as things come up in the news we are looking at them and trying to eager out what it is we can do to uncover government documents of his operations or conduct. host: massachusetts on the republican line. pam, go ahead. i want to thank tom for

everything he is doing. . one of the conversations and names that came up between the clinton, the state department and the foundation was --. who is he and why is the important? guest: he's a lebanese business plan -- businessman who paid 10 million dollars to settle charges of political malfeasance who was a major donor to the clinton foundation. he pledged one million dollars for a global initiative row foundation.obal he tried to get a meeting with a top official in lebanon and the

state department. he got special attention from the state department. host: guest: mrs. clinton made some promises relating to keep a separate wall from the foundation and state department business. question where it was illegally used to benefit a since the man or the foundation. host: the washington post editors said the behavior depicted in the e-mails -- they conduct of diplomacy.

guest: that's just a naive point of view. everyone knew policy and to the clinton foundation and by giving money directly to them during her tenure. that's why her fees skyrocketed while she was eight. that's why her foundation increased its activity. politicians abroad see this as an opportunity to reference through accessing our uranium market. releasingaterial today showing that crown prince of bahrain went through clinton in order to obtain a meeting with clinton. is essentiallye a foreign head of a government.

she couldn't get a meeting through official channels and had to go through the foundation's. billion to the clinton foundation's global initiatives. host: what happens today? has uncovered e-mails that this is clint -- that mrs. clinton tried to hide from the american people. they promise to give them priority because we have freedom of information act pending. 50,000 e-mails were released. we will try to get the documents and see how ugly the government is willing to turn them over to us. anything of particular interest to you? host: we don't know what they

are and. be howthe debate will quickly they can be released or in --. now we are talking potentially every 15,000 more e-mails being subject to review. david from vermont, independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. i just wanted to ask about not tor, is decision recommend an indictment when he couldn't show intent. all classified information sent to her knowingly and willingly unsecured and unauthorized

e-mail server which we know because the ag of the state department told us to achieve knowingly told her subordinate in the state department to ,emove classified information to have it sent to her e-mail server which she knew she did not have permission to have. she claims she didn't send or receive less a fight information but we have an e-mail showing to send it to her e-mails. you.: i agree with the investigation that the statement was half a. it was political. he essentially concluded she violated the law but she shouldn't be prosecuted because it wouldn't a fair. i don't understand how that should be the appropriate

response to the misconduct. host: oklahoma, democrats line. glenn, good morning. that hillary is guilty. government, especially obama is helping her. he is covering up so she can get the president. host: that's glenn in oklahoma. guest: i agree politics are intruding on the administration of justice by the state and often times you see the department of justice and the state of art meant trying to defend everything mrs. clinton did. republican line, tom in virginia. you're next. caller: i've been following

judicial watch for a long time. going and doing the work you do. guest: thank you very much. supportunded with the of the american people. we have 400,000 supporters. can go to judicial watch.org and support us that way. judicial watch.org and you can find more information about that. a couple of members of the house are taking a look. what do you think about judiciary chairman and the oversight chairman on this. do you think that will get anywhere? guest: i don't know if it will get anywhere concerning the justice department. lynch meetingta bill clinton is so much

consternation. this is a good example of why the f investigation was so half a. -- half baked. they have to come back and asked them to do an investigation 101 that they should have done initially. i think a new justice department will have to look up his criminal conduct -- potential criminal conduct of mrs. clinton. the state department should do it. -- justice department. we have to have an expectation that an independent serious criminal investigation due to the allegations it --.

is from bothon political parties is it doesn't matter who is in office. there is an x lactation -- expectation that it should be done and that justice is being fully administered. just because mrs. clinton wins we should not assume that there won't be a further investigation by the justice department. wisconsin on our democrats line, diana. caller: i kind of think it is a sad day for our country when you have a group of people such as that you do, which i'm sure you mean well, but you question the integrity and the honesty of an f ei person who has been elected by republicans and democrats. you question everything. the only thing you don't question as far as i'm concerned

is donald trump. if he is supposed to be president why are you not pursuing his taxes? why are you not looking into sexual allegations? why are you missing this university inc.. that's a rip off to the american people. -- you should be pursuing this as strongly as you are all the questions that people are throwing out there about donald trump. you are looking at the screen right now and years filing like this is funny. it's not. important decision for the people in this country. i think you need to take as many days or months or years or whatever that you have since 1990 you said you have been filing questions.

on one side of your face you say that in the you said we just found out about this. you can't have it both ways. you can't say you have been pursuing her sense 1990, or both of them since 1990 and then recently found out this or that. spent a getting at is lot of time on donald trump, please. host: mrs. clinton was secretary of state. we have the vehicle to access that information. my view is that we don't just go after someone or maketh equivocation between conduct is a politician. talk about mr. trump's university issue may be interesting in a political -- way, but the rule of law was complied with the administration by the united states of america.

and by hillary linton who was secretary of state. mr. trump was never a government official. it is much harder to get conduction about his than it is mrs. clinton. in the clinton years when we were founded in 1994, people said we were anti-clinton. george w. bush's administration twice as much as the clintons administration. believe me, depending on how the out, we willn continue our government accountability activities no matter who is in office. we are not naive that a change in party will lead to a change in the culture of corruption. of information were you looking forward the former vice president cheney?

guest: we challenge the administration's policy on security. he brought in energy lobbyists and all sorts of people to energy. he discussed operations. litigation before judge sullivan , a judge appointed by president clinton himself. we fought and won and lost and we lost before the supreme court but we got tens of thousands of documents out of the administration. it was a victory for george bush. it made a change in the freedom .f information or -- act it made it more open. there was good reason president obama ran to be the most transparent president in

history, promising to be, because of the bush secrecy. unfortunately, it turned out president obama has been about as secretive as you can get. host: when you make a request how long does it take to get a response? guest: it depends it depends onw forthcoming government wants to be. under law, they are supposed to respond within 20 days or so. wait -- we are willing to wait a few months because we know that government takes a long time. to getwe have to sue them to tell us yes or no. the more politically sensitive the request, the more difficult it is to get information in a timely way, and that is why we are often in court. we sue to the and them -- the administration over 300 times to get information under the act. host: is it highly redacted? guest: it depends.

topic of national security, it will often be highly redacted. that is something that is the administration is not required to do, but they choose to do it. host: this is dena on our and underline. -- independent line. caller: those e-mails the clinton has, are -- even though they knew that she was deleting e-mails and had privilege to confidential they hadon even though the capacity to get into those e-mails. the second question is, with the benghazi e-mails that she sent

her daughter, chelsea, telling her that we were under attack and that night, the people, was in that enough information to get her indicted? i think it was scandalous, but not enough to get her indicted. her lawyers arguing on her behalf also looked at the e-mails, and i don't know if they deleted them or not. they did have access to the e-mails the caller was concerned about and other people expressed concerned about their access and whether they should have had the access that was given. evidently the justice department does not think that is a big deal. host: the written statement you received from mrs. clinton, did

she pen it herself? guest: my guess is the lawyers would help her, but in the end, she is responsible for them and it is for the purpose -- purposes of the court and it should be assumed that when she gives her answers, they are her answers under penalty of perjury. she is directly responsible for her answers. host: richard in louisville, thank you for calling, republican line. caller: when bill clinton was president, there was a guy named rich, mark rich, who fled the country. i don't know what his crimes were, but it was bad enough to where he had to leave his country and go overseas and couple of days before bill clinton left, he pardoned the guy. now i find out that there is a -- am id security

saying that right? guest: i think so. caller: a business partner of that business partner of rich? guest: i have read reports about that. caller: that this guy is a partner of mark rich, and now he is making millions with hillary clinton while she was in the state department, and gave money to the clinton foundation. this past january, i changed parties. i was a democrat for 44 years and i changed parties so that i could vote in the republican primary in kentucky. i voted for ted cruz, but i promise you i will not vote democrat because of this terrible way that bill and hillary clinton have treated this country.

i was aamed to say that democrat, thank you very much. guest: it is interesting that this is someone that bill clinton may pal around with, let alone the state department would give the time of day to. host: to the meeting ever take place? -- did the meeting ever take place? guest: we don't know. query -- said the she was going to reach out to this gentleman, and he said at our member meeting with him or that it happened, but in our view, we want the documents, so we are asking documents about that meeting to see if it did happen. host: line for democrats. melvin from south carolina. caller: good morning.

and i am anrat, american, part of the american people that you are talking about. talk aboutu guys these e-mails, the more you make us vote for hillary even more. the lady has been on there for 11 hours, and you guys just pick and pick and there is nothing there. are you guys that big of a sore loser that you can't accept defeat? andnot leave the lady alone we could be doing progress with this country. people need to get on and get a life. guest: we think the public interest demands accountability for ms. clinton's misconduct on this e-mail scandal, and partisans who support her may be turned off by that, but this is a nonpartisan enterprise, and we would be doing this whether or not she was running for office, and i have a feeling we would

have an easier time getting access to these e-mails if she were not running for the presidency, but as a result, it is impacting the process. host: he called your efforts a waste of time. guest: it has led to the shutting down of the clinton global initiative, that was announced after the release of -- a little the foundation announcing it was no longer take for donations, there has been a lot of back and or the about whether that is a serious proposal and why they did not do that before. if it was just judicial watch, and we did not have anything to back this up, why would the clintons personally change their foundation in response to our disclosures? it is a testament to our fine work, admittedly, but it's also a testament to the fact that these e-mails are really concerning to people across the political spectrum and you see

editorials and it was the boston the pro --alled on foundation to shut down completely and stop taking donations. host: texas, independent line. they wanted to bring i hader poll numbers, but a bet with a friend of mine, thee does the -- where to attack take place, was of the cia headquarters or a safe house? there was an attack at a special mission compound that was a cause i'd have diplomatic facility and later at the cia annex that was supporting our operations. was everything -- was

there ever a stand down order given? the cia security people said there was a standdown order and the military was never deployed. you don't need to tell someone to stand down if you don't tell them to get going. caller: who was the order giving body? guest: allegedly by the chief of also inx, and there was benghazi, we found through mrs.ls recently that clinton and the obama administration was offered libya to be devoid in immediately after the attack took place, and it was not taken up in a timely way and arguably, those troops could have gotten there in time to support the men who came under attack several hours later where just for men were killed. host: james is up next from

washington state, democrat line. guest: good morning. caller: good morning. i'm wondering how many positions you have made to the clintons. guest: dozens, at least. the clinton e-mail issue has led to many requests under the freedom of information act. i'm not embarrassed by our record going after clinton corruption. during the clinton years, you had abuse of the irs and issues with foreign threats, threats and intimidation against witnesses who were seen as adverse to the clintons. abuse of the fbi, a terrible record of corruption and one of the things we highlighted when

mrs. clinton came in was warm the administration and warned the american public that this corruption would continue she >> for campaign 2016, c-span continues on the road to the white house. >> we need serious leadership. this is not a reality tv show. >> we will make america great again. >> ahead, live coverage of the presidential and vice presidential debates on c-span, the c-span radio at and c-span.org. monday, september 20 six is the first presidential debate live from hofstra university. 4, viceay come october presidential candidates mike pence and senator tim kaine farmville, virginia. sunday, october 9, washington st. louis host the second presidential debate. leading up to the final debate

between hillary clinton and donald trump taking place at the university of nevada las vegas on october 19. live coverage of the presidential and five presidential debates on c-span. listen live on the free c-span radio app. watch anytime on-demand at c-span.org. >> marking the 20th anniversary of the 1996 welfare law passed by a republican congress and signed by democrat president bill clinton. coming up, a couple of republican former governors talk about the effect the law had on their states. after that, we will open up the phone lines to find out what you think about the welfare law. in one hour, we will look at the welfare of today from 20 years ago. also see the august 22, 1996 bill signing and the impact of the law has had on poor families. a look at a couple of