share or donate or monetize your health data in a way where it is protected? that would be key in getting the government, for example, involved with that. as we can see from the nih and all the support from the joe biden and friends with the cancer moonshot. that is a great example of where our government and other governments around the world are very interested in population genetics. we have to get over the fact that is this really private. we are sharing so many other things that are way more private. >> watch the rest of that discussion tomorrow night at 8:00 eastern here on c-span. >> throughout this month, we are showing book to be programs during the week in primetime.

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on-demand at c-span.org. >> the british house of common's is in recess. questionsministers will not be shuteye. instead we hear from an author and journalist who talks about islam and the misperception that westerners have about the religion. it's a topic she writes about in the book, if the oceans were inck. from the commonwealth club of california, this is one hour and 10 minutes. >> my microphone is on. [laughter] that is an auspicious start. good evening and welcome to

today's meeting of the commonwealth club of california. the place where you are in the know. we are online at commonwealth club.org. on facebook, twitter and check out our youtube channel. i will be moderating the program. it is bridging islam and the west. i want to introduce our speaker carla power. when of you who know her the she's a pulitzer prize finalist. she's a journalist specimen in muslim societies. she's the author of the and critically-- acclaimed book, if the oceans were ink. this is a product of her studying of islam and the carotid and the misconceptions and the bridging of islam and the western world. it offers a look into the muslim world that is often ignored by the news media and explores the many complexities of world --

one of the world's most misunderstood regency secretly redford time magazine and other publications. her essays have appeared in a wide range of publications. she holds degrees from saint anthony's college of oxford university, gl and columbia. yale andntly lives -- columbia. please join me in welcoming carla power. [applause] i'm really happy you are here. i'm excited to talking about an exception -- exciting subject. it is an incredible book about your friendship with jake mohammed. if you don't mind setting the stage, can you talk to us about why he wrote the book -- you thee the book and about

person? >> i call him the shake. there was talk we would call the book the shake and i. my publisher nick's did. -- nixed it. [laughter] back in myt childhood. i grew up half the time i'm in the midwest and have the time in the middle east and other islamic countries. i spent my childhood shuttling andeen suburban st. louis andes like karen -- tehran cairo.nd i got interested in islamic issues aesthetically. i then went on to study them. then i went on to write as a journalist about them.

as a journalist i was incredibly as much as icause try to write about muslim societies, i found that the narrative bifurcated into one of two. one, i was writing about strongmen with bombs. -- orcle and oppressed oppressed women. those are the two trips i would write about. that was when i was writing new stores. when i went on to feature stories, it's slightly widened. i was able to write about things like pakistani punk rock bands orenergy drinks from halal muslim-european professionals. that gave a little bit more bandwidth to the terrorism and womanwoman -- veiled narrative. even then i felt it was kind of like instead of saying muslims,

they are the other. it is muslims, they are just like us. it reminded me of those magazines you see at the checkout in the supermarket where it is like, movie stars, they are just like us. angelina jolie with a baby on her hip and a latte. any opportunity to sort of excuse oneself from this like different. looking into the abyss or looking into a hall of reflecting mirrors where you wanted to see muslims looking exactly like the rest of us. and take aelve down muslim worldview on their own inms, there was not mainstream media.

say that never in 17 years of writing about islam was asked about the koran. journalistas secular who are covering things as becky was, whether we are or not, we tend to overlook the scripture that is animating or started all of this. so, i had a friend, this was 2011 who i had worked with as a , i had met him when i was 24. he was barely older than i was. was an indian shake. the rising star of his group in india and had been sent to oxford to work at the same think tank i was working on. we were sort of play friends.

in 2012, i asked him, would it be ok if i shadowed you. and really try to understand what your worldview is based on the carotid -- karen and the words of the prophet mohammed. this meant a year of conversations on everything from sex to hell to jihad to how to raise kids to geopolitics. he let me trail him to his hometown in india and the gym and up and down the u.k. on lecture tours. it really was an attempt to kind worldview -- i was raised by a quaker father in a jewish mother. sed.i washom were lap

raised as a secular humanist. he was this very conservatively trained scholar. i wanted to see what brought us together and where our views diverged. that was the template. importantted at an point of the interview, he's accomplished person with full of contradictions. and full of humor. you bring out the carotid -- quron and his you ministry. can you talk about that contradiction and how this is the gold mine you are waiting for? -- that they are to like us just like us. you said you were loath to hear about what he said about gays and lesbians, can you talk about that how he was the ideal

player? -- cleric? >> he is extraordinarily interesting. he was raised in a tiny village. reading by kerosene lamp, reading persian poets. because of his brilliance, by 17 he had already written a grammar arabic you know he grew up speaking the indian muslim language. he started out from this background. rural in many ways, he is far more cosmopolitan than i am. layersstarted seeing the and layers of what a scholaritan religious

has at his disposal, he is linked into a network of religious scholars. whenever we hear network these days linked to islam, we freeze and think of al qaeda or something else. network off a global intensely learned folks were not involved in politics and yet help each other out. whenever i went anyplace, he would -- i would say i'm going to india. he would say, are you going to this place? i need to get a certificate from learning -- of learning from a scholar there. can you get that for me? he collects these certificates of learning from other scholars the way you would pick up a yankees cap if you went to new york with a friend.

cosmopolitan view of the world that comes not through having traveled 37 countries in instead through being linked through scholarship. >> one of the points that is really revel in -- relevant and women?is his views on is a controversial talk point. touch become a clinical stone. he has six daughters. he is thetten -- first scholar to write about it -- hidden women in islam. >> he came from a current -- incredibly conservative background.

his family was so conservative that daughters and fathers, after daughters reach adolescence, they try not to speak to other. -- each other. brothers and sisters will not talk to one another after adolescence. firstetty sure i was the american that he was friends with. i'm sure i was the first woman that he spoke to freely outside the madraza. he comes from this very restricted notion of what is right and proper. that said, i call him the accidental feminist. ago,ay, about 15 years semi down and said i'm working on something that you will be interested in. i know you are interested in women's issues. i'm going to do something on women scholars of the words and

deeds of the prophet mohammed. he said, it will be a slim volume. maybe 20-30 scholars because there are some well-known women stretching back to the time of the prophet mohammed in the seventh century. people know them. they have been written about before. he started going and he was looking in the margins of all sorts of other forms of books. he was looking in travel books, mosques. the ends of he now has over 10,000 women scholars stretching back to the days of the prophet mohammed. not just quantity but quality. some of these women had that fornary freedoms

many women across many muslim societies they could only imagine. ding onriting on -- ri horseback or camelback across the arabian peninsula. women bouncing around going to study with different scholars from jerusalem to damascus. religiousing opinions. working as judges. one woman, my favorite, who was so revered and who taught both phs and women as well as cali and other scholars, she was so revered that she used to give her lectures leaning on the tomb of the prophet muhammad. not only that, she would get the best place. she would lean on the head. these are extraordinaire freedoms that have been all but

forgotten. texts.ly in mainstream >> one of the many points of your book is that islam when it more --o being was much i don't want to say god carrying -- egalitarian but mixed. and a sense, it was after the death of the prophet where these legal scriptures became politicized. of explainingjob the art of islam. -- arc of islam. it also made blanks and clears up assumptions that i think people can relate to. can you talk about that? >> yes. it is funny. talking about the prophet

about how itking is well known that his first his was hadija who was boss. she was 15 years his senior. read very successful caravan training companies -- she ran a very success book are fine -- caravan company. she asked him to marry her. clearly reveres women. thingss been eroded -- got much worse for women when the scholar started developing jurisprudence. suddenly, instead of the relatively a gala terry and -- egalitarian -- relatively.

it came out of a seventh century culture where women were being buried alive where girls had no life. within this context, islam came in and women could inherit. women were seen as people rather than something to be inherited. islam came in and really radically helped women. in the ninth and 10th centuries, these medieval scholars were ron and were the qu doing it through the lens of being medieval men. that is when you get a lot of the problematic and less equal interpretations of islam! -- less equal interpretations of islam. what is going on now is incredibly exciting. you have a muscular islamic the best movement where women are theseback and reading

basic sources for themselves and saying, it does not mean i am lesser than my husband. we have equal rights. lessear about it much because it does not make the headlines that isis does. this is another incredibly exciting ferment we are witnessing now. i don't want to laud your book too much, but one of the many things i like about your book is it is written with not just the shake, but you talk to his daughter and his wife. one of the key points in the book is revolving around his shehter and the fact that -- the shake does not want her

to wear it. she says i will do what i want to do. she was almost 16 years old. shake talks a lot about the politics behind people's choices within the muslim world and how it does not necessarily although it can represent faith. for him, faith is everything. ornamentation is whatever it is. should i die my hair or where a skullcap when i pray? you can argue how superficial these things are. if you could talk about the ornamentation and these other things? >> he is really skeptical of everything from the drive to set -- the needc state

for sharia law. the desperate struggle for people to wear head jobs -- hijabs in france. he says it is all about the internal piety. in many ways he reminds me of episcopalians. he viewed it as a very personal thing. it is between you and god. politics are beside the point. i think a lot of his students get very frustrated with this. they are like, look at what is going on all over the muslim world. one of the most moving moments -- they get really frustrated when he will sit there in front of an auditorium full of angry young men and they will say, it is terrible what is going on in iraq and on the west bank.

whose.a child of -- for old enough to remember partition and how bloody it was getting an islamic state in pakistan, he will say yes, we have our slum estate. it is pakistan. how is it working out? not so well. he is very skeptical of these kinds of outward ornaments. one of the only things he says that made me think we should print out bumper stickers, if consciousness, you don't need [arabic word] i want to get into your personal relationship with him. you said your mother was jewish.

your father was a quaker. but they were not strict. i hope i'm not giving away the book. one of the threads is, i have been this way, what is your faith? if you say, you could be a good muslim. that is part of living in the world. how were you accepted as a readingfeminist yorker -- one of the points you make is sometimes you question your own .it you could talk about how you are viewed as an outsider who became an insider for a year? gentle -- he was was hopeful that i would

convert. i never got the hard sell. think he took a huge risk in letting me go -- it is described in the book. i went back to his hometown where he has set up schools for boys and girls. he said, you need to go and speak to the boys. in hindsight how very brave he was in a sense putting his reputation on the line having this woman traveling without her husband, an american, i did not reveal to the crowd that i had a jewish mother because he was already putting himself on the line by people who might criticize him for being too liberal. togoes to the west, he goes oxford and now he's importing western feminists to talk about

building bridges. howd not appreciated just -- not dangerous, but risky it was for him for his reputation. the thing that we kept talking about was whether he thought i was going to hell because piety is so central to his reading of the koran -- quron. he said the central thing is we have to avoid going to hell at all possible. it is forgot to decide. -- for god to decide. there are many muslims who believe that jews and christians and others, if you do good work you will not go to hell. there are many readings of the quron say that. the shake did not read it that

way. i remember one day we were sitting and parsing this verse describing the hungry flames of hell and the manacles and chains and how it was like a lion. he was reading it and it seemed to me he was interpreting it very liberally -- literally. it surprised a preacher is a man shakespeare more than i can and is poetry in seven different languages. and it's a lucky nuances and that of force. said, theseand and manacles and chains, they are metaphorical, right? he said, no. they are real. we need to do our best to avoid them. he think i am going to hell in a second bird. hellinks i'm going to

unless i convert but he says it diplomatically. [laughter] >> i want to get into his life a little bit. you met him. could quotean -- he and lombardi. -- vince lombardi. >> yes. [laughter] >> i have to say, i love the guy. he says, where the beatles --who are the beatles? >> right. [laughter] >> on the other hand, he is open to society. muslims wherever they live should live in that society and wish for well-being in the society. he is a very complicated. -- complex figure.

you are allowed to dig into those complexities. or you surprised by that -- were you surprised by that? >> no. it reason he agreed to do was, he said, americans and other westerners never hear from the ulama. they hear from the people making the headlines. they don't hear from people who are reading the 12th century texts and dispensing wisdom. he agreed to do that. i think he was tremendously open hat you like, write w want. he was not fazed by having someone shadowing him. i do think -- he went to this interesting place.

he will know from four -- reporting in pakistan, we all went to madrazas where we would see the stereotypes of the boys lined up walking back and forth ron withoutthe quo understanding it. he went to a madraza started in the 19th century by indians who wanted to fuse western learning an islamic classical learning. islamic classical learning after the medieval times included aristotle, plato rhetoric, all sorts of things that we would see as a classical education ourselves. was nothere and this mathabs we hade

seen, guys are playing badminton. there was a poetry slam competition every night. they were reading shakespeare. it was a much wider and intellectual placed. -- place. it was producing traditional scholars. as i like the institute up in berkeley where there is a real attempt to think about mean americans and thinking about an american jurisprudence. it was very traditional. n a waythe world in i that we don't often think of an islamic education leading the world in. >> one question from the audience. they are raising questions on the card. ake part of the lineage and where does he put himself in the mystical ful

cram? >> he does not admit to being a sufi. sufi poetry and respects it. he is not linked to any particular sufi lineage call. -- adult -- at all. >> i want to remind people listening at home that this is the commonwealth california program and we're talking with carla power, author of "if the oceans were ink." reference to the quron itself. it is a poetic passage. >> to come from a passage that says if the oceans were ink, the words of our lord would never run out.

i chose it because it was so beautiful and because it seemed to me to reflect the pluralismties and the and interpretations i hoped to find by setting it. -- studying it. one of the most profound things that i cannot fear feeling is that he threw my own tradition into relief. i went in not realizing the extent of my own rabid individualism. i remember talking to his daughter and she said, this business starts with my kids did we go to school and suddenly you have to do show and tell. it is like, look what i have. about shows anecdote

and tell, i saw this entire, oh my goodness, this is a me centered society and how is toent to those -- it live with people who are god-centered. everything they had they think is a gift from god. but itunds like a cliche really was a profound experience. party --renced in slum earlier was this idea that people might have the physical capabilities but if they don't have will, they don't have problem -- that is a problem. the shake himself as one of the most willful people you will meet. he would study for three days at a time. hand, one of them edgy -- many touching scenes of the book, your father died and

igbahe you the poetry of l. it is touching. >> it is in the book. my dad, right before we met in killedn, my father was suddenly and violently. england at the time. i went into the office the next day together my stuff because i was flying back to st. louis. i had not known this. i had only known him as the only guy at the office he was not freaked out the day that prince charles came to visit the office. dignified.htly i was such a mess. i walked in and i told him what had happened. octoberremember, it was

is -- he and the light stands up next to his desk and starts reciting the words of this philosopher poet. an elegy written for his own mother who when she died. the words of something like, who will wait for my letters now? who will wait for me in the middle of the night when i have not come home? i did not know what he was saying but it was the sudden connection, the first of many of just an electric human connection in another language. he then translated it for me. i did the start of our friendship to that moment. oddly, it was the most comforting thing that anybody said to me during my grieving. riod because it was so basic

andthey and -- big, transcultural. everybody dies. it is a moving expense. -- experience. >> let me put it into a question . i was reading the book and i thought, i can see conservatives saying this guy is an exception to the rule. nice to meet you, sorry. most of islam is different. background, does he accurately represent muslim world? >> i think it is dangerous to talk about the muslim world at large. i'm highly skeptical the minute anyone says muslims do or islam say to say that about 1.6 billion people who range from

.ribesmen to people in kansas how do you bridge that? i think what is interesting about the shake is his very conservatism. textsks in the classical but has allowed -- it is his knowledge of the text that has allowed him in some cases to solutionsliberating for women and other cases, not at all. one of the most profound lessons i learned is there is no spectrum in islam. in the first couple months, i ran around to figure out ok, what kind of a shake and my studying with? -- and my studying with -- am i studying

with? he is liberal with women and convinced i'm going to hell. yet, he will not tolerate most exalted -- homosexuality. i want to say came at university professor and said, forget it, the first thing you have to realize is there is no spectrum. if you are trying to use christianity as a default tradition, you cannot plot islam onto that. there are mystics who are tremendously conservative and there are literalists who are enormously progressive in some ways. i think we have to take off our preconceptions of left and right and really look at the lived reality of various muslims. i think the shake his

extraordinary. are groundediews in the text. he manages to make both progressives angry and traditionalists angry. in that sense, i think he is rather rare in the sens that he is not thee -- affiliated himself with a particular thought. you bring up that he himself says that most muslims have not read the quron themselves. you alluded this earlier of if the quronemorize occu but there's a difference between them rising and intellectually engaging. but that was -- i thought that

that was an important reminder. thet of muslims do not read quron and a lot of muslim critics have not read the quron. >> in the first lesson, i was terrified to tell him because it seemed to me that i have written about islam and muslims are more than 15 years and to admit at this point not to have read ae quron seems like being tenured literature professor having skipped hamlet and homer. [laughter] i was nervous to tell them. he was like, don't worry. most have not. not even most ordinary phones, he said if you look -- ordinary muslims, if you look at her jones in the seminaries, th --

quron iss, the assumed. faroes not get you that those things. that is his argument. it does not get you far after the seminary. question fromthis the audience, why does islam get more than its share of negative stuff? you write about that. i think it is relevant. is wehink the sad thing business.event driven the pilot extremists have figured out a way -- violent

extremists have figured out a way to insert themselves into the headlines. 1.6vast majority of the billion muslims have not. it is depressing. the old saying that if it bleeds, it leads. it is true for all groups. sadly, there are not to make him to narratives that make it into the news headlines about islam. there was a recent study that asked people about what the face of their religions was. because islam is so -- there is no pope. there is no organized clergy. catholics, the face of catholicism was the pope. unfortunately among americans, the face of islam was al

baghdadi, the head of vices. it -- isis. it is a difficult problem. ago,ember pitching a year i was excited because it seemed a seminal text had come out. a group of women scholars had it has beene 434, referred to as the dna of patriarchy. that is the version that has been privileged among many others among gender relations. havegues that men authority over women. see wives having to allow their husband to take another wife, it is that burst. when you see the saudis saying

every woman is effectively a male guardiands a to let her get a passport and a that iseducation, then verse 434. a group of muslim feminists had gone back and analyzed the grammar and the history of the privileging of this verse. they had looked at it and come up with a book on this. questioning and they pointed to lots of other verses that described much more egalitarian relationships between men and women. be a comfort to one another. and all sorts of other verses which were ignored in medieval jurisprudence. i got excited about this book. it seemed to me that this was

news. i went to an editor and i pitched it and i said this could thege gender relations in muslim world. they're all these battles being fought as we speak about feminists in there is countries trying to change the laws. this would be good. the editor can back to me and said, it is a good story but let's put it into the ideas section. it is a backwater relative to the new section. the irony is that if they had blown something up, they would be in the news. that is the horrible dance we are doing. it, but the media has been complicit in some ways with the violet jihadists. isis does something horrible and

we put it on the front of websites. >> i will ask when related question. i believe in your book you say oxfordth his salary from funds his madrazas. does the quron promote violence against nonbelievers? you get into that as do a lot of scholars. it is complicated. allies and jews as gets more complicated. verse of the sword cite extremists like to which is kill the unbelievers where you will find them.

it is linked to a very specific moment in early islamic history muslim armies were outgunned effectively and it were many other attempts. mohammed said, can i use violence now? finally, because there was a be meccansnd attacking them had gone back on the treaty. that at the specific moment where you can kill the unbelievers. there are all sorts of other say, believe what you believe and we will believe what we will believe and we will go together. that's even an argument when mohammed moved from mecca to medina, there is a central

moment because the tribes are so -- are treating this young band of muslims so badly and pelting them with garbage and mohammed's life is in danger, they all moved to medina nearby which is where the first islamic unity is bounded. when -- founded. when the prophet and his followers moved there, there are jews and pagans in the prophet thinks there is not that much monotheists.tween the jews in the muslims -- there is an argument, some scholars believe that he did not see much difference between them. they were all monotheists as

opposed to the polytheists. this later changed. togetherness did not get much airtime. i will take a few of these questions and try to combine them. surpriseere so much about women in muslim scholars when there were so few christian muslim scholars? -- women scholars? visited aestion, mosque around boston with a religious education class and we came away thinking that islam discourages questions? does your experience support this? >> no but yes. [laughter]

kehave to say a lot of the shae students are gobsmacked when they can ask questions. one of the muster medic moments most dramaticm -- omits came in the book -- moments came in the book when they shake changed his mind on child marriage. he refused to condemn it. these young women went and argued with him. in the context of a situation where you listen and the teacher talks and speaking back to authority and questioning the professor is not done. shake, but not the

it is a rare thing. >> there may be a few people who have read your book already. one of the things that came to andre,s my dinner with that movie. just about two people mulling big questions. it is funny and also a serious way to challenge each other. theare doing that with shake and he was also doing that with you. the proverbial two-way street. you did ask about gays and lesbians. have skated on the issue of gays and lesbians, i'm gay and have lots of close muslim friends. i would like to know where i stand? [laughter] homosexuality was yet another

big departure for both of us. that this is going on. we were talking during the course of the year -- gay marriage became legal. it was exciting for me. denying thatnot god gives some folks different urges, but that is a test from god. marriage is heterosexual and that is it. i have to say, that is his view. there are some exciting things southon in various -- africa and here and europe as well where people are working on a gay theology in islam.

after orlando, there were a lot of gay muslims who came out and talked about it. there are scholars too who are working to see if there is terms of theere in texts themselves. my answer would be, just go to you will beake and fine. people have the sense that -- of islam being this strict thing and there is one law. over and over again, one of the great surprises was how flexible it can be and how flexible your relationship to islamic scholarship can be. his daughter, the one who divide her debt and started wearing the kabab for a while, she wanted to die her hair.

she asked, what is your religious opinion? he said, i don't think it is a great idea. she is like, ok. she goes down the block and go to another shake who says, i have no problem. then she dyed her hair. feeling of this kind of shopping you can do. [laughter] i will combine a couple questions. in the book, you talk about living as a young girl in muslim majority countries. i believe you were five years tehran. he talked about the feeling he gave you -- you talk about the feeling it gave you. given the arc of

your life where you lived in in privilegedl circumstances, you talk about, how could you not have known that there were these underbelly's of muslim societies where you are in this protective talking- in a way were to the reader? >> one of the things i wanted to westerners at how have used the islamic world. i did that through my father in my surgery i father was a law professor and chronic depressive. the only way he could be happy was being either in san francisco or the islamic world. we went abroad for professional reasons but he found a

statically -- a statically -- a terms of thed in culture, it helped his depression. the era was the 70's. it was an incredibly important turning point in america's relationship with islamist societies. the tamils of the islamic world -- tumults of the islamic world itself. for my father, it was the last time you could do what westerners have been doing for the last -- since queen elizabeth signed the east india 1501 that islamic countries were out there. they were mysterious. age and that was not

true. you have written your book -- in your book that they were muslims here much earlier than the 50's and 70's when there really was a mass movement of professionals to america. other lessorkers and professional jobs. changed watching my father's distant orient become household words. islam is us. we are muslim. it is totally changed the past 30 years with migration and technology. >> we have about five minutes. this is a good question from the audience. book, the shake is

telling you about islam and how he is living in muslim life. what, if anything do you think he learned from you? how did you chang his perspective? atin our last lesson we met this museum in oxford and i was know,d because i was, you all through the year was like, don't you want to know about what the beatles are? aren't you as curious about me as i am about you? he was not. andas so incredibly polite would always ask after my kids and husband and when i was writing but there was a sense -- self-satisfaction there. we would go to the museum and there is a leonardo on the left and michelangelo on the right

him to sitot expect there -- because of the muslim frowning on the patience of the human form. i do not expect him to sit there and want to stare at a michael wantednude with me but i to know about curiosity. i wanted him to be excited about the aesthetics we were seeing. wing andn the islamic he was happy to get on with our lesson. i said, have i changed you? he was like, carla, just to be here, i'm sitting next to you, ,tr time? -- parts i -- aren i? if the guys could see me sitting next to another man's wife in a

museum, it would not believe it. -- they would not believe it. was, i am here, i?bn't what is this is not your precious pluralism? want?is not what you that was my answer. it was humbling. conversation that was the connection. >> another thing i was reminded of, there was a controversy be 10 years ago. the european journalist hung out afghanistann [indiscernible] the bookseller himself read the

book and said you have to be kidding me. havehe trade me -- you portrayed me in a negative light. the people we interviewed take a leap of faith with us. they can do that based on instinct, based on the internet and libraries, let me see your work before i allow you. you had the luxury of being friend with him -- friends with him. he did take a leap of faith. the book has been published for how long? >> april of last year. >> plenty of time for people to digest it and finger-pointing i would quibble -- finger-pointing. i would quibble with this chapter. has he read the book? what happened the thoughts -- have been the thoughts?

>> i was nervous when i showed it to him. he liked it. he gives it out when he goes on lecture tours which is nice. he said, my daughters learned more about me from you. amazed andto be grateful because he is an intensely private guy. i come from the land of opera. it was like pulling teeth off of him. tell me a narrative. what was it like growing up? that sense of talking about the self. at one point, he is never cranky. i want when he was like, the prophet muhammad did not have to talk about his childhood or what happened. [laughter] it is fine. of i am doingion

a narrative of you and you are going to be at the center of it, i suspect, made him slightly uncomfortable. it opened into all sorts of different issues, he approved which was a huge relief. >> do you think he approved of you initially? you are in your 20's at oxford , that you and you say were a short skirt. shorter the better. i wanted to bring the world into the oxford man. you may have been in your 20's say that. that?bout i was 24 and i literally -- all i knew was the importance of

myself and that was it. i think he was very polite back then. i don't know what he thought of me. , i added it say less and less about myself as our friendship went on. and he accepted it. that i am muchs more liberal than he is and he accepts that. quite literally, what worries him is i'm going to end up in h ell. there is a real mutual respect and fondness. one miniskirt is not going to upset us. [laughter] be snide, trying to but are you worried about going to hell?

[laughter] have you changed that way at all? >> i'm not worried. person,use i'm a good but because i have not yet taken that leap of faith to believe in it. >> one of the many layers of the book that i'm george -- enjoyed is the parents. it is the passing on of knowledge and love. rotes not just wrot memorization. it is fondness and love for the offspring. for people who come into the family, they don't have to be blood relations. one of the things you make very based ons that islam the bears of tribalism or tries to. -- break down the barriers --

breaks down the barriers of tribalism. or tries to. growing up in a jewish tribalism, one of the things i was taken by and the love he has for people. >> he is quite extraordinary in that way. --hink some of his students not that they are not looking people themselves, but he is so eager for everyone to concentrate on their personal piety rather than say politics is very difficult. some have said that you are sitting in oxford. it is fine to work on your piety. one of the most moving moments was when one of his students, a brilliant young scientist at

quronidge who came to his classes on weekends, she was egyptian and her brother was in the muslim brotherhood. she was in the muslim brotherhood because she had egypt, the only real way to make things better was to join the brotherhood. under morrissey, he was the foreign secretary. when there was be military coup he was put in solitary confinement. i remember going up to the shake afterwards saying, you keep saying we should concentrate on a personal piety and doing good things, but what am i supposed to do? let my brother hang? he says it is a test from god.

that kind of frustration from folks coming from countries that did not have the freedoms that .k. was verye u frustrating for some people. talk, ig into tonight's was scanning the headlines. one of them related to donald trump. [laughter] ok. yes. antagonisming towards american muslims and the fact that he wants to have every was some immigrant pledged to a litmus test. the other headline, i'm focused on this because of the talk in my own interest is that france, another town has banned the bur kini and it has caused quite a controversy. in your book, the shake talks

about whether you wear a burk or whatever, these are just outward manifestations. within your own homes, you can be as pious as you want to be. the reality is that people have said this is unfair. there are critics criticizing and punishing those lumps -- muslims. respond or analyze the commotion around muslim and islam around society now? >> i think it is interesting that you picked up on the veil be thes -- it have to most written about and most in theed piece of fabric history of humankind. that or the like

height of your minaret. it is these superficial things that become lightning rods for everything else. that superficiality is sad. when 53% ofome americans say they don't know a muslim. often the places where there is greatest fear that sharia law will take over or that the muslims are coming are precisely the places where there are no muslims in sight. quite literally. i live in britain where the theest voters for anti-migration party are all in places where there are no migrants. it is the disconnect between

knowledge and actually -- whenever anybody asks me about what we can do to break down these barriers, my answer is incredibly low tech. go to a mosque. the shake his tried to organize things like have your neighbor over to dinner. things that will break down these prejudices. >> i think that is a good spot to leave on. power.nk you carla paperback copies of her book are the galley to the left. she will be happy to sign a copy for you. i'm jonathan curiel. the meeting at the commonwealth club is adjourned. [applause]

[captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015] >> former white house budget defense and former undersecretary speak about defense spending and other priorities for congress in the next president. that is live at tenant clock a.m.eastern -- 10:00 eastern. we also look at health care costs. noon eastern on c-span two. at c-span.org, you can watch our public affairs and clinical programming any time at your convenience of your desk top, laptop, or mobile device. here is how. good to our home cage --

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that they argued for last may and they decided to gamble with the lives of children like this. instead of protecting them. as i said, they ignored their own calls to get this done quickly. they have refused to pass urgent measures that would protect our country from a public health crisis. started, mr.n i president, this is a test to see with our democratic colleagues care more about babies like this or special interest groups and they failed the test. it is simple as that. ,> under the bill we got back planned parenthood, an organization were hundreds and hundreds of thousands of women go for their care, do you think they will have a rush of business now because women in america today want to make sure they have the ability to not get

pregnant. mosquitoes ravage pregnant women. under the logic of my friend, they don't need to go to planned parenthood. they can go to their boutique doctor. an emergency room and said i'm sorry, i did not get birth control. that is not what they are for. that is not -- that is what planned parenthood is for. vast majority of women who need help, that is where they go. under the legislation we have from the house, there is no money to be provided for that. >> this thursday, a preview of four major issues congress will debate when they return from

recess. seek funding, defense policy, gun violence, and the impeachment of irs mission or -- commissioner. that is thursday at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. next, from washington journal, a look at the u.s. role in the middle east. that is followed by q and a with author lawrence leamer. and another chance to watch the conversation of islam and the west with author carla power. continues -- " washington journal" continues. host: if you go online, you will read the work of michael thenstadt, an expert on middle east. t work. i went to begin with one of your pieces in this one quote that focuses on. if you do not middle -- if you

do not visit the middle east, it will visit you. explain. guest: repeatedly, presidents have tried to avoid getting smashed in the area's middle east complex and we have seen this under the obama administration as part of his lessons that he drew from presidentrs that obama ran on the campaign platform of disengaging us from the two wars and marketing to a third war, but presidents have found time and again that unless the united states is actively engaged in trying to shift governments in the region, we get sucked in whether we want to a knot. it is good to be proactive and shaped the developments there and get sucked in as a result of underpments that are not or come about as a result of the initiative of others. host: this is from "the huffington post" and based on a study by the bill and melinda gates foundation that says war and terrorism in dozens of

middle east countries since 2010 ms. rolling back health care, leaving open new and old diseases. it not only arises because of terrorism but because of health issues as result of turmoil. guest: this is a disaster proportions that we have not invasion, the mongol perhaps, and it will have long-term consequences. as i mentioned, what happens in the middle east has ramifications beyond the region, both in terms of the impact of developments within islam having implications for muslims around the world, as well as we are seeing the politics of europe and the united states responding to the mass flow refugees to europe and the united states and the exploited terrorism and extremism of the region beyond. the bottom line is whether we want to ignore it or not, it will affect us. we need to be engaged and continued to be engaged and involved. host: nowhere is that more

evident in syria. look at this picture this morning from inside "the washington post." the bomb hi mourners in aleppo. what are the figures? the number of people who left is now in the millions. guest: supposedly, half the population is displaced. , about about 12 million 6 million are displaced internally and about 6 million more have been displaced and located in neighboring countries have gone beyond to europe and elsewhere. what is happening is that the middle east in many ways is moving west because of the flight of people from north africa to europe. also, the middle east is exporting security and instability. we had hoped after the end of the cold war that nato and other -- or the united states could [indiscernible] and what followed in the

aftermath and the rise of al qaeda and isis is that the middle east is actually supporting instability. host: let me share with you what "the jerusalem post" is writing about. they are in the last stages of a 10 year deal that will give israel an estimated billions of dollars and all eyes are on donald trump and hillary clinton. trump in aat donald prize competition of style and hard-line statements that he would limit most of immigration to the u.s. that resonates with some israelis, especially hardliners in israel. hillary clinton spoke in favor of the independent palestinian state should appear more to collect these -- more to aleppi's, and bill clinton remains popular. that is on the jerusalem website -- that is on the "jerusalem post a quick website. what are your thoughts? in office, you get you're confronted with a different set of realities.

i think in the case of hillary clinton since its u.s. secretary of state, she probably was pronouncing conditions that are and that she was to be elected president, and donald trump has less experience in the area and we are d.c. him to some degree. you take everything with a grain of salt come up at even if they are elected, there will be confronted with an unprecedented series of challenges. they have relationships with traditional allies that have become frayed and now we have the russians involved in the region that they have not since the cold war, and this is a complicating factor. then we have the iranians playing the regional role that they have not ever before. syrians the turkish and , we have already a complicated environment there and it becomes more complicated now with the turkish intervention.

i do not envy whoever will be elected. host: we are talking with michael eisenstadt, with the washington institute for near east policy. we'll get to calls and messages in the moment and you can send cspanwj.et at @ you said that they need to think of regular and irregular conflict and policymakers should stop relying on the technological solutions for politically driven complex. the u.s. needs to adopt a lightfoot print approach and action speaks louder than words and the policy arena. guest: i had written the peace with my colleague about u.s. military intervention in the region and military engagement there. one of the things that i said is that we really need to rethink the way that we organize and operate in that because the result of the last 15 years has been unsatisfactory and we have invested great in that part of

the world and what we have to show for it is limited compared to the investment. part of the problem is that we tend to look for technological thetions and we worship at altar technology when many of the problems require good geopolitical instinct send a refined understanding of the politics of the region, which is lacking in american policy. i would argue a lot of art interventions have exacerbated the problems of the region rather than helping. i hope that whoever is elected president not only focuses on policy but how use the military instrument. let me just say that under the obama and mr. shouldn't, after a long period of time and perhaps relatedly, we have arrived at a good way of operating in iraq and eastern syria, but in western syria, i think our approach is mistaken and this

guided -- and misguided and has contributed to problems and is contributing to the disaster there. i hope the new minister shimon peres think our approach. host: our guest -- guest: i hope i knew administration will rethink our approach. host: our guest is michael eisenstadt. where did you go to college? guest: [indiscernible] host: let's go to eric in california. good morning. caller: mr. michael, my question is about overreach with the united states police in countries. hillary clinton was part of the decision-making that obama wanted to go and make a supports and she also getting rid of assad. yes, these guys may have had country,history in the but donald trump says that he wants to be neutral in his approach with israel. israel is guilty of civil rights violations against the palestinians, so my question is

in the cases with the united states intervening, those places are not so good and then you the fax andhat says then make a judgment, so which would be more beneficial going forward? host: let me jump in because there was also a tweet from a dealer that was related to what eric said, and it seems like the u.s. just reacts to the latest middle east crisis. what must be overall long-term strategy to achieve lasting peace? guest: one of the things i say in this monograph i mentioned before is that americans have to this propensity for its solution is him. that americans think that all problems can be solved if you simply apply enough political capital and effort to solving them. i think we have to recognize that many of the problem are not

solvable, at least at this point. we should be engaged though we should do it long term and long -- long-term and short-term, building on positive developments, and the exist and also trying to mitigate negative trends. when the policy is marked sustainable because it is better balance, and therefore, our market against heavy footprint approach. there is no way to walk away from the problems or to solve them either, so we are stuck managing them. with the israeli conflict, i did not see that being that this point, unfortunately, the right solution. we need to be engaged dramatically in that area and we need to do things in order to the situation with the

palestinians from deteriorating into open conflict again. i think it was a mistake by the obama administration to invest some match political capital and diplomatic efforts to solve the problem, which i think our stuff they did, but we do not need to walk away. we need to be engaged. it is a matter of striking the web inalance in order to diplomatically and militarily and in syria, and in a way that is sustainable, and what i mean by a sustainable, is that the american people can support not for years tout come, so that means the heavy footprint operation and the end of exposure but it still means we cannot adding others. host: adding to that point for michael, do not forget that russia seems to be getting closer to iran politically. guest: that is something that i think is a negative outcome of our contempt to disengage from

the region because others will feel that vacuum and the only try to reengage page, it is much more complicated. . i believe there are a lot of tensions between russia and iran, which takes effective cooperation between them difficult. just in the last week or two when russians started operating out of the iranian air base in syria, i think mainly to make a political point for propaganda purposes and they announced it, aside from those series of strikes that their lunch, they will not be operating on an ongoing aces. their are sovereignty issues that are sensitive in iran. it seems. i think there is a great deal of distress between iran and russia and partly because russia was involved in sanctions in iran and russia held up to the the surface eric

missiles for a long time, so there is bad blood and there is a lot of distress. having just returned from that part of the world, our guest michael eisenstadt is the director of the military studies of them at the washington east policy. near from california, mike on the phone, democrat line. good morning. caller: good morning. , i am sure you're familiar with the terms [indiscernible] at what thek back u.s. military has done in iran, and south america and other parts of the world, if you think ,bout what is going on today the seeds of what is happening in the world today were planted

30 years or 40 years ago. i think that may be just not interbeing military in other people's affairs might actually make a more peaceful world in another 50 years. i think if we continue to try to control everybody else in the world we're just going to make it worse. guest: i would add that there are things that we have done, especially in the middle east in the last 50 years that have contributed to the region's problems, but i think there was a lot that we did that was good. our role in the world has been a source in many places for stability and we have returned , but i deterred wars think it is a point to have a balanced approach for a long time in the gulf. our intervention in 1991 prevented saddam hussein from consolidating over kuwait, we

liberated kuwait and we earned the everlasting gratitude of the people, maybe not everlasting but we are in the gratitude of the people there and that really enhanced our stature because that is something where we had an international coalition of i think some 60 countries or so, so there are many things we did in the region that advanced our interest with the right thing to do and serve the greater good. again, not everything we have done. in the last 15 years, we have done a lot of things that are problematic in that i can to be good to the region's problems. i think it is a matter of balance and perspective. host: let's go to robert in texas. welcome. caller: yes, what i was calling about was leon in the war, we paying theg about afghan soldiers $400 a month and taliban soldiers were getting $600 a month.

i question is where is all the money coming from? we spent $2 trillion in that area. host: we will get a response. guest: i agree. between iraq and then afghanistan, no one knows how much we spent, but it was well over $1.5 trillion and he cannot afford these kinds of engagements anymore. question whether we should have ever done it in the first place. i agree with your point and i am arguing for an approach that focuses on enabling others, but you have to say that we have to be willing to spend money, especially money because you want to avoid spilling american blood, so we have to spend money and provide arms in training for local partners and allies who are trying to achieve a shared objective. if we are to say that penny wise in the expenditure

fund and trying to contain the complex of the region and push back, i will be pound fullest because in the end, we will end up spending more money for homeland security and other stuff like that. it is a matter of understanding the trade-offs and that there is a balance to be achieved between short-term expenditures and long-term gain. host: when you travel over there, most recently in israel? guest: yes. host: when you talk to critics, or to they say about our policies toward the region? guest: in israel, people were unhappy with the iran agreement. in the gulf, i would say people have been unhappy with our general iran policy, which they iraniansas enabled from the point of view, iranian and shiite expansionism in the .iddle what we have seen at the conversions of opinions between israelis and people in the gulf.

first of all, criticizing our abandonment of egypt once you had the arab spring in cairo, and my come back to this is that we had no choice. what are we going to do? enableing in order to him to keep his position? i think there would be criticism on that count and we are just going to differ with their allies. with iran, i think their criticism of both israeli and welfare of critics that are on point. they make the point that on the one hand, we signed an agreement with iran are we did not cyber we came to an agreement with iran on their nuclear agreement and that kicks the can down for 10 years to 15 years and is not solve the problem and potentially provides them with funds to enable them to be more assertive in the region. we have seen in many ways, in the last few days, they were

asking viewership in the gulf, we have seen greater iranian ministers, i would argue, so i would argue that there critique is correct and we have created the situation where we have endangered the security of some of our allies and partners in that part of the world. i would argue what we should have done this engage iran on the nuclear program but push back against iranian assertiveness in the gulf and in syria more firmly than we have until now. that would have been a way to perhaps balance to aspects of their policies, which we want to enable us to pursue our goals for the nuclear program, but also to do with alec concerns which would be our concerns about iranian aggression in the region. host: meg makes this point, we americans have a short attention span. we went 15 second solutions that require decades. guest: what we talked about

earlier in the speeches that the change of american culture. he have to recognize that the way we look at the world and the way we think about the use of force has not been effective, and that we need to change our way of thinking about the war in waye and we have a binary of thinking of war and peace and victory and defeat, and regular and irregular work, but in the middle east, all of that is one big gray area. the kind of complex we are engaged in now are not going to be ending soon. they will not be any kind of short or definitive victory as a result of intervention. it will be a long-term with the american personnel on the ground, but a long-term commitment, which is ourssary in order to ensure interests are met, but there will be no definitive outcomes. we do not know how long this

period of instability in the region will last, years or decades, but we need to be involved. host: our topic with michael eisenstadt of the washington institute. and alsoe our viewers those listening on c-span, doug from california, republican line. good morning. caller: yes, you mentioned that the administration might be able to change in a positive way some , so i situations in syria was wondering what recommendations he would have to change the situation and to maybe help stop the refugee crisis that is there as well. host: thank you. guest: i would be modest in terms of our ability now. the situation has gone so far with the russian involvement in the turkish intervention that i am not really sure how much you can do. neede alone argued that we

to actually be much more proactive and serious in the way that we support the syrian opposition, simply because it has always been in our interest to create a third way between the regime and extremists, such was recentlyhat changed their name from local al qaeda affiliates, but we did not create a third way. people in syria could choose the regime or extremists, and as a result, a lot gravitated to more extreme groups. i do not know if we really -- if conditions now are conducive to an effective training effort, but we need to be look at that, and i would argue are we looking at that option? it is also important to have a third way to keep pressure it

will never be a diplomatic solution that we are looking for and trying to achieve unless there is pressure on the regime, and right now, the regime is on a roll, in part because we have not been very proactive in arming the opposition and they have been making progress and they will not negotiate if they feel they have the upper hand. everything that we want to accomplish in syria is really predicated on having an effective effort with the opposition. that said, i'm not a big sound of no-fly zones because i do not like the idea of committing to over -- to open-ended operations. we did that in iraq and it turned out to be a decade-long [indiscernible] and i would be reluctant to support that course of action. host: if you had to guess, how d stayoes a solid -- assa in power? guest: a couple of years ago, they called him dead men walking and the pendulum has swung, and

look like he was out in 2012. hezbollah iran turn things around and it looks at back in 2015, momentum was shipping against him. the russians intervened at that point, so i am not really in the prediction game. we have to assume that he will be around for the future. saying,is is from jack will egypt's stability further deteriorate -- devolving into chaos like libya and syria and iraq? guest: i like and say is that right now, it looks like cc like he has a firm grip, but there are signs that that could change any time as a result of an assassination or possible coup. things are not going great in the assignment and these operations have conducted operations now in cairo, so i

were just kind of refer to my colleagues to focus more in egypt more than i do for that one. it provides a great case in which from our point of view, there are a lot of things unpalatable in terms of the way he is prosecuting the fight against isil. on the other hand, we have seen in the past what happens when the get rid of authoritarian leaders and what often follows is worse. we have a horrible choice there, but i would argue that they should try to find a change in the policies. host: many of you weighing in on our twitter page. one saying that passed the u.s. military intervention in the middle east ever accomplished and been positive? let's go to minnesota. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. your light footprint

approach, but i would also urge .ou to maybe look at this ever since we kind of overthrew the democratically elected 1953, andiran back in -- thattalled the policy has been repeated over and over in the middle east, and just looking at how that has happened and how that has created animosity in that region , i did not get why my andrnment is going off doing these things to other people and other governments that are democratically elected or whether the government of a country decides to have whatever form of government they want, but what right does our

government have to do that? especially going off my name and saying that you are going out democracy?preading in actuality, does it not for spreading freedom but in this business interests. ajax,ame out in operation so i like of the narrative is controlled, but i kind of see through all the bs and i would really like it to stop. as a citizen of this country, [indiscernible] host: thanks for calling. that goes back to the earlier tweet from doc and income has the u.s. military intervention never accomplish anything positive? guest: i think the caller raises a good point that we should be careful in how we intervene to change governments and most of that coup is an excellent

example of why. with regard to has intervention of the worked? i would argue in the 1973, returned to intervene in response and it was brilliant because it enabled us to help, enabled us to ensure an ambiguous outcome to the 1973 war, which the to seek peace with israel and allowed egypt to become a close ally of the united states. i think the 1973 war is a good example of how american diplomatic and threatened military intervention had tremendous results, both in terms of the stability of the region and i would argue the 1990 war was built for morality and her interest aligned, and i think we did a very good job in defining limited objectives but rolled back the consequences of iraq aggression, and we did it

and gained great stature in the region for doing so. just about everybody in the region come almost everybody, supported that and even the syrians were involved at the time, even though they were at anti-american and the soviet union had fallen, but they were seen as a russian ally . i think there are a number of times our interventions during the war ensured freedom in the gulf. i would argue that we have a pretty good track record of doing well by doing good in that world but we have also screwed up a lot. the problem is the last 15 years there have been a lot of screw ups and americans have that bitter taste, understandably so, but we have to have a longer perspective looking at this and saying that we had done relatively well and made some mistakes in the region and some have made things worse, but a

lot that we have done has made it better. host: from massachusetts, good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to go further with iran, criticizing it, do you realize that have to iraq want --the persian empire [indiscernible] was thevide and conquer policy. you can even look at germany. they gave part of germany to france, czech slovakia, poland, and of course germany went to work, so we still have the problem there. it was arrive between four countries. how do you want to get involved in that miss again? guest: no, do not want to get involved in that mess. this is a very troubled region and i did not think we need to or should been involved in every problem in that part of the

world, but there are some problems, such as the civil war, which is not destabilizing the region and destabilizing or authorizing the politics of europe in a direction that i think will negatively affect american interest. if you have to strengthening of the rights in europe as a result of the refugee and terrorism issue, that is a great part related to what is going on in syria and the right in europe, russia as a, sees more natural allies in the united states and this has the potential to dramatically transformed the atlantic relationships. things that are happening in syria has an impact on european politics in a way that has dramatically impacted american interests in that part of the world. i would argue that perhaps it is american politics that are not so good. again, we cannot ignore what goes on and we should not get involved in every conflict in that part of the world. host: ronald is next in new york

outside of buffalo, democrat line. good morning. caller: good morning. first of all, the trouble that is going on over there is oil, economics. they do not have a drop of oil, we would not be there. most of ourl, politicians do not know their history, and me, and the british empire and american empire, created a whole situation over there since world war i, and we are not going to solve it voluntary action because it keeps switching sides of the reserve friends into his our enemies? and you got the religion factor in their. once you have that in there, there's no way americans will and it isproblem supposedly a peaceful nation and

we have always sensed the birth of our nation after that war with somebody. .e have to have an enemy we have got to change that mindset and start thinking about our country and disengage ourselves from a lot of problems that we created. thank you. host: ronald, thank you for putting those issues on the table. guest: i am not sure, look, there's a debate among middle east specialist about what to agree on the problems of the region due to the bounties created. first of all, almost every international boundary is man-made. there is no such thing as a natural boundary. that maybe the boundaries have contributed to madness, but i think it has to be to a great extent with the political culture, or you have this kind of winner take all and there is the approach to politics, where you have various

--, and that willing to share with others. the greatestis source of the region's problems. i am willing to acknowledge that we contribute it to some of the region's problems, but i think we also played an important role as a result of american diplomacy in keeping a lid on a lot of the problems. i am very sympathetic to what the caller said, which is what dialect for an approach that does not involve the massive commitment to american manpower because there is no into the conflicts in this part of the world now. as results, i avoid trying to achieve solutions which are unfeasible. i agree with a lot of what the caller said, but check in the right balance and intervening in areas where interests are affected, and the, whether we

can solve the problems or not, we have interest in that part of the world. related to what the caller said but other factors that are related to proliferation, the exploit of violent extremism, so walking awayis no from the problems of the region, but we should not be heavily engaged there either, because we cannot solve the problems. it is a matter of solving the problems with local partners and other countries as well. california, robert, you are next. good morning, independent line. caller: good morning, gentlemen. i have a long time listener, grew up listening, so i'll be talking to you guys. kind of been aas general theme that we have been listening to this morning for most callers. everyone kind of feels the same. i have not heard too much between democrats,

republicans or independence. at the end of the day, we look back at history and we see that in korea, i think puppet warfare started in korea, where basically large powers like the united states and china and russia are going into smaller countries and financing wars and fighting the wars out of their own homeland. they go over here so the mess doesn't come back to the front door and they started in korea and came to vietnam. obviously, as the storm continued with many complex -- with many conflicts, there are no new ideas or thought process. this is what i think jfk came up with when he started looking toward vietnam. in reality, the thing that we with pullingith out of the countries and freeing hubs of democracy, which is protected to look at south korea, look at that, even look

at that with vietnam and everybody would agree that we not cords ofe are vietnam can't -- viet cong terrace building -- coming over -- terrorists coming over. guest: you have a series of regional conflicts involving and in many cases, islamic extremists or syria popular uprising, which has sort of captured extreme islamist andps, so you have libya syria, which threatens to spread to lebanon and parts of iraq. that theall related in groups involved send weapons to each other, personnel, --nsferred tactic put

procedures and techniques and there's momentum behind it, so this'll go on for a number of years. secondly, we tried imposing democracy in iraq and afghanistan and the political culture does not supported at this time. we have to recognize that fact. of working ourselves out of the job or a strategy of achieving military victory and then creating democracy as we did perhaps to some extent in europe and japan and elsewhere doesn't work in the middle east under these conditions, unfortunately. host: we encourage our viewers to check out new >> c-span's washington journal, live every day with news and policy issues that affect you.

a pollster joins us tomorrow to discuss her work as a pollster and her book. empty director of urban policy issues talks about the latest threats to cities and counties across the country into the way cities are trying to preserve affordable housing. government accountability office, talking about disaster assistance. be sure to watch c-span's "washington journal" on monday morning beginning at 7:00 a.m.. join the discussion. tomorrow, combating terrorism. live at noon eastern on c-span3. later, more on that topic into intelligence sharing between europe and the united states. live at 1:00 p.m. eastern here

on c-span. >> monday on "the communicators" and author discusses how neuroscience researchers and research project agency are working to develop ways for wounded soldiers and paraplegics to use thought to move prosthetic limbs and manipulate computers. >> this is about trying to make colby soldiers coming back from iraq and afghanistan for much of the century who because of advances in body armor and -- were not being -- you know, were suffering blows that previously would have been fatal but are now just coming back with amputations is so these are young men in women in their 20's, sometimes there 30's, who have their whole life before

them. who studied the brain before joining had a missionary zeal to say, this is a program that will make these people hold because we only to them for the service they did to the country. >> watch this monday night on the communicators at 8:00 p.m. on c-span2. >> the c-span radio app makes it easy to follow the 2016 election from wherever you are. 32 download. get audio coverage and up-to-the-minute coverage for c-span radio in podcast times for popular history programs. stay up to date on all of the election coverage. youc-span radio app means always have c-span on the go. >> tonight on c-span, human day.

experience getting to know a muslim cleric and what it taught a woman about her perception of islam. another look at the u.s. role in the middle east with michael eisenstadt. ♪ announcer: this week on "q&a," author laurence leamer talking about his writing career and his latest book "the lynching." brian: laurence leamer, you are now an owner of 15 books you have written. why did you do books? laurence: i cannot do a living writing magazine articles. i tried. i could not write fast enough, so i wrote books. i did not make much of a living for a while.