this labor day, c-span continues our road to the white i rkthouna house coverage. this afternoon at 2:00, we are live from cleveland with hillary clinton and vice presidential candidate tim kaine, as i lay out their plan for the nation's economy. then green party presidential candidate jill stein and vice presidential candidate baraka. gary johnson stops in des moines, iowa. ane nba on this unofficial end of summer, labor day, and a created to honor the american labor movement and celebrate the contributions that americans have made to the country. several members of congress are tweeting about what they are doing today. labor dayrphy says

celebrates the contributions and achievements of the great american workforce that makes our nation strong. gop representative jody hice day, as we enjoy labor olavt t take a moment to thank our heroes serving our nation only from their friends and family. rhode island senator jack reed saying happy labor day. honoring the working men and .omen congress is out, but lawmakers return tomorrow for their summer -- from their summer recess. work on several bills including one that allows the library of congress to collect video and audio recordings of biographical histories from gold star family's. they will also debate legislation that establishes certain rights for victims of sexual assaults in federal criminal cases. and the senate gaveling in at 3:00 eastern, members return to work on military construction spending for next year and

funding research for the zika virus. a procedural vote is scheduled for 5:30 p.m. eastern time. tonight on "the communicators," daniel currys and author of the book "prototype politics." >> in this world of much more fragmented media attention, in a world of multiple different platforms where people consume media, campaigns really need data and analytics and technology to figure out which voters we need to reach, what messages are most likely going to appeal to them, and how can we reach them? how can we get our message to people and help them realize the stakes of an election, how do we make them care about politics,

how can we get them interested in our candidate? >> tonight at 8:00 eastern on fi uswianryen, ll c-span 2. >> c-span continues on the road to the white house. a president for democrats, republicans, and independents. >> we are going to win with education, we are going to win with the second amendment, we are going to win. monday, september 26 is the first presidential debate, live from hofstra university. tuesday, october 4, vice presidential candidates mike pence and tim kaine debate at longwood university in farmville, virginia. sunday, october night, washington university in st. louis host the second presidential debate. leading up to the third and final debate between hillary clinton and donald trump at the university of nevada las veg

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forum for international economic cooperation. that decision allowed us, as the global recovery progressed, to take further actions to strengthen the global economy, and that is what we came to honshu to do. we have had debates on ways to promote growth, but america's growth in the g20 has been one of bold action. that stance has been backed up by our economic performance. since it job growth turn positive in early 2010, american businesses have greeted more than 15 million new jobs, we have cut the unemployment rate ca in half. so far this year, wages have geilic risen by 3%, which is much faster than the pace of inflation. but one of the things we have learned through the g20 process is that more than ever, our economies are interconnected. togetherore work to do to keep the global economy growing.

we have to do more to keep wages growing faster to shrink inequality faster, to give everybody a shop and opportunity at security in a changing economy. uspaalarf ng that should be the way forward for the g20. to make sure the benefits of translate globalization and technological progress our shared broadly by more workers and families who still feel like the global economy is not rmtort crkke

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are you concerned meeting him legitimizes his approach on the issue? i just came out of a long day of meetings, so i just heard about some of this. i have seen some of those colorful statements in the past. clearly, he is a colorful guy. what i have instructed my team filipinotalk to their counterparts to find out, is this, in fact, a time where we can have constructive conversations. i --itvendurit obsly, tsome o

nevitithwe figharcofficking is tough. always assert the need to have due process and engage in that fight against drugs in a way that is consistent with basic international norms. undoubtedly, if and when we have a meeting, this is something .hat is going to be brought up my expectation, my hope is that it could be done with constructively. but i will have my team discussed this, we have a bunch of folks that we are meeting

with in the neck several days. historically, our relationship with the philippines is one of our most important. my relationship with the philippine people has been extraordinarily warm and productive. continue but will i want to make sure that the setting is right, the timing is rlistootfenoit right for us to have the best conversation possible. >> [inaudible] i will make an: assessment. i just got out of these meetings. , theis certainly true issues of how we approach fighting crime, drug trafficking , is a serious one for all of us . we have to do with the right way.

michelle kaczynski. what can you tell us about this hour and a half long meeting you had with resident putin? the tone, any progress? the you agree with him that the relationship between our two countries is frozen? senator reid recently cited intelligence briefings when he talked about his suspicion that russia is meddling in the election and may have direct ties to one of the candidates. do you think russia is trying to influence the u.s. elections through hacking? president obama: president is less colorful. fst w i typically, the tone of our etinre cannef sucu kerry ['toroorng

and russia's foreign minister avrov, about ways cessationverifiable stch g of hostilities in syria. our capacity to provide some humanitarian relief to families, children,enfering tparerrfb, f f we initiated a cessation of hostilities a while back. initially, it did lessen the violence. unwound, and we are in whichwo a situation

the assad regime is bombing with impunity. ist, in turn, we think strengthening the capacity of al nusra to recruit. that is a very dangerous dynamic. we have had some productive conversations about what a real cessation of hostilities would that would allow us to focus. and russia, our attention on common enemies, like isil and nusra. given the gaps of trust that exist, that is a tough negotiation. we have not yet closed the gaps in a way that we think it would actually work.

my instructions to secretary kerry and mr.av to k w tt,di uranspahave elyes . we also talked about ukraine. anhksfit,my putement onimtimu1 deitamr it t

but also with chancellor merkel hollande,dent that that should increase in urgency in the next couple of weeks. it was constructive but not conclusive. we will have to see whether we can actually get this done. ag wanting, inact,pite , is, inion, solution

fact, comfortable with this in a great solution along the border. finally, we did talk about cyber security generally. i will not comment on investions tare st cyhe. atrig atinde du

esouial syare sound. what we cannot do is have a situation in which suddenly this the wild, wild west, heisk heexs aricawh i aso where countries that have starticant cyber capacity engaging in competition, unhealthy competition, or conflict, through these means when, wisely, we have put in place some norms when it comes to using other weapons.

that has been a topic of conversation with president putin, as it has been with other countries. we have started to get some willingness on the part of a lot of countries around the world, including through the g20 process, to adopt these norms. but we have to make sure we are observing them. william. >> thank you, mr. president. mangs cffer t hosppuhtwhu ho

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that not only provides enormous comfort and meeting for families , and is consistent with our th daoelceid traditions, but also ends up being a show of good faith on the country, a way for us to move into a next phase of a relationship. and so a lot of the conversation will start there, but it does not end there. we have had an initiative, for example, helping all the development, deal withkong delta environmental issues. that is something that we have been doing over the course of several years now. for us to be able to expand some of that work would be important. establishing people to people exchanges is another area that has historically been important. the think laos, seeing

enormous economic progress that be enough and china -- vietnam and china's and others have made, will be important in finding ways in which they can advance into the global economy, and help themselves grow. i think we can be a useful partner there. i think it will be a broad-based agenda. the visit think about ,rthrough those streetsity and the enormous wellspring of goodwill that you saw, that started with the same kind of steps that we will be taking with laos, but i hope we can do it faster. faster, than we did over the course of 15 years.

because we have learned some things. eager toaos is very engage with us, and we are eager to engage with them. i am looking forward to what i hear is a very beautiful country. thank you, mr. president. the transpacific partnership, how do you plan to sell this to these asian leaders who still have work to do in their own countries? maey 't o do are not the u.s. usually ratifies its trade deals. do you plan to conen inevity, do you feel that for the lame-duck session? even if it doesn't happen then, is it inevitable anyway? if i mayndert you president obama: with respect to

ehoil un shaum tpp, i do not have to sell it to asian leaders here who were part of the negotiations, because they see this as the right thing tofor r own

taetised, but he is also looking at a couple of decades of stagnation and intimate growth. what he said to the japanese people is, if we want to break out of this, we had to change how we do business. this provides a roadmap of how we can become more competitive on the world stage. theon

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people already understand that. we will have to cut through the noise once election season is over. it is always a little noisy there. -- in termserfect i have notabinet -- been following this closely but isunderstanding at least that he is exercising his constitutional right to make a statement. i think there is a long history of sports figures doing so. i think there are a lot of ways you could do it. as a general matter, when it comes to the flathe ll.es noying ation ' e

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ging about it and maybe some of his critics will start seeing that he has a around certain concerns about justice and equality, and that is how we move forward. ?igmak isnoanic sometimes, it is messy. but, you know, it is the way democracy works. last one. angela of bloomberg.

angela: thank you. -- for you,ussion how much of that discussion was centered on the apple case and u we have worked not only with 0 ey the sudans in the late 1800s, said there is no god, but the the -- mohammed is because of that cult basis, this countries, but also some of the organizations to is why the saudis refer to them as deviance, but they won't use

the word cults. because that means you are making a judgment about what god did to these guys. the average muslim in the world cannot make them judgment refine how we can approach the because god did this. problems. it is a complicated piece of business. and anyone who calls himself a muslim is a muslim, right? we did not bring up the specific ase of apple because, as bombs do not particularly care about that. general role, i do not want to bring up a single case in a form right? that is the way we resolve cults. so, cultism, as al qaeda and isis have done it, have been like this where we are trying to truly weaponized. shape broader policy. but like aum shinrikyo, they will harness technology -- i but at home, we have been went to the terrorist training focused, whether on the facility in afghanistan soon inversion rules we put forward, after tora bora fell. toposals we put forward that is the place where they had videos of them poisoning dogs, poisoning sheep. define who the beneficiaries are now, there were big, honking holes when i got there, but there was enough material around , another stuff there to behind the veil, so we can catch know that these people were people who are avoiding taxes. going next generation terrorism. they were fully intending to do that. isis went the other way. we are doing a bunch of stuff at isis was a smaller faction of a larger group. home and we want to coordinate

better norms internationally. if al qaeda is the cia, isis is a flash mob that has been called together through a text message. one thing we have to make sure we do is to move in concert with that is the best way to think about them. other countries. .here is always a danger what are they in europe and why are we in the united states, not feeling the same effects of europe? to go around to your question again. because so many of the members came from europe. it is not just a matter of a impactsbeing -- it also and it is not about whether we have good values or not. i came from a full study in france, where went to everyone of those terrorist attack the ability to collect taxes from that country. into europe and the sites. charlie hebdo, bataclan. and then i went up to brussels. u.s. treasury is shortchanged. i was invited by the king of brussels. went up there and looked at all if there is not coordination of these sites. as an intelligence practitioner, between various tax authorities, -- there has to be and i was a terrorist for four years for special operations, where we simulated terrorism -- i know how these guys think. coordination about even some of our closest allies racing to the bottom in terms of how they one, terrorism is fun. it is exciting. thatce their tax policies it gives you a sense of adventure. these guys have harnessed that.

when you are in paris, what can lead to rather than shifting and you do in paris? you can go to euro disney? .ax avoidance in our country asterix and this is not something that i think will be sorted out obelix-land? overnight. right? you can have coffee, that is paris. these guys were taken the if we are to regain opportunity to become what al the trust of ordinary people qaeda called itinerant islamic knights like the medieval and the system is not rate, period. that give them a sense of adventure. these guys, like isis, they are promising them to be special forces the day that they come. deal with these trends of no having to go through pt. inequalities that have risen out all you have to do is come here, of globalization and technological change, we have we tackle there go out, and grab a gun, and start mass murdering people, and you will be set at the right issue in an effective way. hand of god. this is why our values -- we have made some progress but americans, they don't do that. not as much as we need to. the americans have gone over it is recognized, in there -- i can tell you, almost can tell -- and mia the interest of all countries, you this more -- all have had developingount, to work petty criminal records, like many members of isis have.

together to put a stop to this. all do not understand islam, or have a most zero understanding of islam. because if you understand islam, developed countries are losing the first thing they tell you is revenue and that even rose there that all of these things that tax base and the ability to isis are doing are anti-islam. theate kids and build not even un-islamic, universities and build infrastructure, but it also anti-islam. but these kids in europe, they wallops developing countries are geographically closer. they can get on a train to because often times tax avoidance goes hand-in-hand with croatia. from croatia, they can get a bus corrupt that impedes to greece, then take a taxi over development. to istanbul. from istanbul, they can take a bus over the border. excess capacity, this is an and in less than 12 hours, they issue we wanted on the agenda. can be in syria. we got it on the agenda here it american kids don't even know wasy conversations, there how to spell syria. [laughter] much less go there. trust me. i worked in the military for 20 an agreement we would make years. dealing with steel and we were like "we are bombing syria." what is that? overcapacity, which is is that near yugoslavia? consistent with the plans that the president himself has had to [laughter] economy so it is and the worst part is we would have just left yugoslavia. not so heavily dependent on that is why europe has a bigger

ate home enterprises and an problem. they are more integrated. , so we have made the people that are coming -- it is not because they are first generation. i like to think -- when hazir some progress, not as much as we would like to see but some khan said -- bilaterally. they played the video at the democratic national convention, a video where hillary clinton multilaterally, the way it was gives sort of a eulogy about resolved was the g20 agreed to captain khan. put together an intensive his father talked in this video. gathering data, determining what the best steps i do not know any better and that was not crying by the end are, which would then be of the video. the father said, "my son took 10 steps. reported in that g20 next year. he was the chief of headquarters company of this unit. he was only doing an inspection i think there was a validation of those gates." of the basic principle that to this is a job the privates do. the extent overcapacity is the go up and confront cars that are suspicious. result, not just market forces he said, "when my son took those but specific policy decisions steps to his death, to save that are distorting a well functioning market, that needs his men, putting his men behind to be fixed. the blast wall, i felt that each one of those steps comprised the 10 values that he had learned in -- one of a number his life as an american citizen." of examples that do not attract i freaking cried.

headlines where issues we raised i could cry right now. in the g20 get adopted and a that is the difference between us and the guys sitting up in bunch of work gets done and the brussels, or the kids who are coming over from morocco, who can zip back and forth, and don't feel they have had fusion following year, you start seeing into that society. action and slowly, we build up american societal values are little different than that. international norms. at the digital i have any iraqi now i brought from united states. as soon as he got the blue to get the were able passport, i told him, everybody in the world is going to behave differently towards you. g20 to adopt a range of and he does. principles about open internet, , "god, malcolm, nobody calls me iraqi anymore." i said, "sorry, buddy, you're neutrality, making sure businesses and vendors and kidnappable now." providers are not discriminated [laughter] across borders, reflecting a lot "all they see now is as an atm." when he got his citizenship, he called me crying. of foundational principles that have led to the digital his wife called me crying. his kids called me crying. they love what we have. but we are not europe. revolution over the last several years. the reason we are not europe is simple. proximity. that will in turn generate a

bunch of new work. but we have a lot of european-like problems. i think we will have more. there will still be conflicts i won't take up more time. about how people deal with censorship or cyber security issues. away at it and over lawrence: there is a difference time, we get sturdier that willnal norms between us and europe that we ought to mention. we don't have the colonial heritage that has haunted france and germany and belgium. and you know, so many of the people that are muslims in those countries. help all countries grow and help people prosper. my parting words at the g20 were malcolm: that is because we did the original brexit. , having watched this process ier the last eight years, [laughter] lawrence: exactly right. but those postcolonial refugees think we all have to recognize have never been integrated into these are turbulent times. those societies. a lot of countries are seeing a statistic -- it is a little .olatile politics loose, because in france, they don't take a census on religion. but about, say, 7% to 10% of the sometimes, you read the headlines and you can get discouraged about whether the population of france is muslim. 60% of the prisoners are. international community and shapeship are able to is there a starker evidence of the degree of alienation in that society?

for thes fast enough france has the most muslims per capita of any european country. scale of the problems, whether it is migrants or refugees or crime it -- climate change or but that kind of disaffection is common in europe. it is not common here. or making sure the a large part of it is because we have been more careful in terms international economy is working for everybody. of our selection of the nooostit is not just us. populations. they have had a better job. they have been dispersed in the country. although, wherever, even in detroit and places like that, they become far more integrated into our society. that is, in part, because they don't have that original alienation that you do have in europe. i agree with you, that proximity makes a difference. but europe is in for a very rough period of time. because of the g20, you also have an agreement in which all are having to karen: mia, i want you to talk a little bit about radicalization and the degree to which, would strengthen capital requirements and putting in place basic you agree with what the other side has said about this, you safeguards to prevent what

happened, and that is true hetto ttherd. know, this revenge, or the cultish qualities about it? or do you think it has changed since isis came along? or are there different ways of understanding radicalization also in the world that you want to talk about? mia: it was interesting. i remember -- it was probably about 20 years ago. someone was talking about the afghan jihads. they were talking about muslims from all of the world who were joining afghan jihads the way -- what is it called, west coast connection? where after high school, you go traveling? that was their equivalent. i think the difference is now -- this is not helpful to debate with the other side. but there is something to be said for the fact that european muslims don't have the success rate. you know, good luck going to the hospital and finding a dock to who is not a muslim, or good luck going to the dentist, or in orange county, or in dearborn, or in new jersey.

in jersey city. the fact remains that american muslims are a fabric of the society. in fact, i even saw -- and i am not an expert in civics, but that thomas jefferson talked about islam in the constitution, or at least in the constitutional papers. islam has been a part of this country for a long time. in part because this country was built on religious refugees who needed to find safe haven. d raaden a- ase erana live threr and so, i do think there is something to be said, not only to the vetting processes in immigration -- first, it was ims, and then it became the department of security. muslims in america are wealthier than muslims in europe. the most important thing to think about his muslims in europe -- lawrence was saying --are a legacy of the post world war ii generation, where they needed cheap labor. so, what did they do? they went to their colonies, they brought them men in, and somewhere around the late 1950's

and early 1960's, they said, "oh, crap, we have all these muslims. "what are we going to do?" so people had a very short period of time where they could reunite the families, or go back. so the amount of people who emigrated very quick way without having the time, resources, or money to assimilate happen in a short time. this is one of the reasons we see the european muslims are disproportionately poorer. 60% are in jail, even though they are only 10% of the french population. the fact remains, when you look at the european muslims, they are not like american muslims. they don't identify themselves as "american-" or "french-". they will not learn the local language. they dressed differently, they won't eat the same foods, they will not assimilate. in other words, insulation -- assimilation is a negative.

but in this country, it is a very different thing and thank goodness. look at one authors work, the import thing to remember is questions via e-mail. that -- i was watching -- i spent a lot of time watching cnn. i was watching cnn, and they had this airs every sunday at noon eastern. this fantastic story about -- the interview is either a was in new mexico. he went to a dance in colorado. journalist, public policy maker, he went to a dance in colorado. or legislator familiar with the topic, often with an opposing viewpoint. it airs every saturday at 10:00 and heard "baby, it is cold outside." eastern. >> in a church. mia: first of all, i love that we will take you to author song. but that radicalized him. events and both parties were authors talk about their latest and i remember thinking, "wow, works. book tv is the only national network devoted exclusively to he must have been really nonfiction books. book tv on c-span2, television susceptible to radicalization." [laughter] mia: thank you for the for serious readers. correction. "baby, it is cold outside" radicalized you. american history tv airs on and what was it, 1958 or 1959? c-span3 every weekend, telling the american story through that was not a period of events, interviews, and visiting american licentiousness. historic locations. [laughter] mia: and, you know, and it is

features include lectures in history, visits to college interesting that if you look at classrooms across the country, egypt or lebanon or syria in that same period of time, very american artifact takes a look ryl e uso'asuresthistites museu is westernized. very few women wearing the hijab. i myself was in syria. i was traveling in damascus in 1994. and thinking, as a western female alone, i should wear a hijab when i am traveling. so, i am traveling through syria realizing i am, the only one wearing so, in the one. middle of the market, i just took my hijab off. because i realize i was is getting more stairs. and it was like i was burning a bra. people were clapping. "you go girl" in arabic. i did not realize i was making a political statement. [laughter] mia: what we see in europe are attitudinal differences, educational differences, economic differences. is allworry that i have

of the great advances that we have made, compared to europe, unfortunately, we have lost a little bit of our progress. and so, what i would say is that there is the issue of colonial heritage. our issue, with regards to the middle east, will continue to be foreign policy, like a relationship to israel, the drone program, which has radicalized. i remember -- i refer to them as iutto-eating pakistanis ancave in lahore. they were drinking wine, eating pork, in talking about jihad isism. they were looking at them quizzically and saying, "can i get you another glass of wine?"

they bought into some of the ideology. so we have to be very careful about how we conceive of the world and our place in it. and i certainly do not want to say that the solution to the palestinian issue is going to be the end of terrorism, because there was terrorism before the palestinian issue and they will probably be terrorism afterward. the problem is, in the arabic society, there is this notion of somebody who is ignorant. there is a period of ignorance that occurred before the car on, koran, or before the prophet muhammad appeared. people can be forgiven for their ignorance, but this issue of hypocrisy -- there is even a special swear dedicated to the hypocrites. and so, if -- and we have seen this time and time again. a los ha nc, t sterri that on the one hand american e f in ier , policy talks about human rights and the rights of women icisheig plar a and liberation, and at the same t lkoutogh a m pi we wi g tso time, supports the saudi regime,

tsess sweanava and supports the israeli policies in the west bank and mo eanve, peapless gaza. fose b me intestg, in other words, it makes the dete. leme introduce you to our united states look it is speaking out of both sides of the mouth. panel. that exacerbates part of the problem. to my left we have a canadian -- [applause] so there is no easy solution. because i will tell you right now, the people who tell you everyone will be moving there. into is one route he was attracted to extremism when he was young, many years t rre bl prior century. i dndneg terrorism -- that's bullshit. there is no one route into terrorism. terrorism is very complicated. this is where i want to make this emphasis. it is a bit of an example from the palestinian case, but i want to make it, because people will often talk about root causes. my colleague, dr. john horgan, who is here, will talk to you about the fact that as a psychologist there no such thing as root causes. there is no root cause, but there is a root solution. there is a fantastic example of two palestinian brothers raised

in the same family two years apart. one brother, the older brother, goes off and is actually the founder of a terrorist organization that brings suicide terrorism to the islamic-palestinian jihad. and his younger brother, by two years, raised in the same house with the same parents, is a professor at brandeis. so the fact remains that, at the end of the day, we can talk about what are the contexts, what are the environments? but we have to realize people are still making choices. this is what i wanted to end with. i sound like mrs. charlie sheen. it is complicated. [laughter] it is not simple. and i know the media hates the response that it is complicated and messy. people make choices about whether or not they will go right or left.

when i look at the shikaki brothers. fathi, who became a terrorist and khalil, who became a peacemaker. for those of you unfamiliar with massachusetts, brandeis is a very jewish school. choosing to be a professor at brandeis is a little different than choosing to be the head of the islamic jihad. at the end of the day, we have to recognize the choices people are making. we can do whatever we can with our foreign policies and domestic policies, we can make inroads into countering violent extremism and creating counter itok messaging and all the wonderful plans we have. at the end of the day, we have to realize people are still making choices. lawrence: if i can interrupt -- a statistic from this election i found really fascinating, the choices those brothers made. among sanders supporters, sanders, the jewish candidate, there were more arab americans

supporting him than jewish americans. [laughter] lawrence: i thought that was one of those things that tell you a lot about something, but it is hard to know exactly what. [laughter] l ittoadol mia: thank you for the correction. just: mubin, i want to ask one thing and then we will turn , it over to questions. there has been a lot of talk on both sides about how things are better in the united states for muslims. but i think there are a lot of muslims in the united states who do not feel that way. they feel that they had been persecuted by the police. in prior years, if not currently. they feel like islam is blamed for terrorism. and that when people here islam, a means violence. i just wondered if you think that there are individual muslims and others that would disagree with the idea that things are actually ok for muslims in this country? you know -- i mean,

we don't live in a perfect society. >> it is not canada. [laughter] mubin: thank you. at the end of the day, it is not a perfect society. you are always going to have grievances. and it is always how the society manages those grievances that determines what a functional society looks like. there a lot of things that are mentioned. let me take on the quote i gave 1,inar about ideology and grievances. i used the phrase also, "grievance-based ideology." what brother malcolm was saying. this rebellious group that kept coming again and again, and i thought you were going to give the example of the 1979 takeover. malcolm: i was gone too long. they took the grand mosque over. mubin: yes, they took it hostage. for three days, there was no

prayer from there. on people thought the magi came. the guy claimed he was the savior figure. he took over. and so, god sent french in o commandos, of course. malcolm: no, no, no, french nerve gas. [laughter] mubin: the only thing i would go beyond what malcolm's suggested. it is generally correct to say if you are muslim, you are muslim. that that group is particularly mentioned. what i do is i incline towards kihe they were believers, but they became disbelievers. or when he gives the quote -- "they will come from iraq, and they will leave islam like an arrow leaves its bow." so they will leave islam. so one person call them under apostate. they are described by the prophet as the most people of creation.

most evil of creation. there's the ideology part. i don't want to give that a free ride. one mistake i think most people are making is they are making it an "either/or." oh it is not only foreign policy or ideology. the ideology, it is what some people call wahabi. let's break that down. i want to move into the grievances part. wahabi. this is when the british were arresting controls of arabia from the ottoman empire. you know, the ottoman entire had its great, illustrious history and then like all nations, fell apart. as they broke apart, the french, british, and the russians divided up the area. drew borders. so this foreign policy thng grievances that i think animates a lot of the discussion. again, i am not saying you are being a pacifist or whatever. islam has a rich military tradition.

we did not come to power in spain, because we had good falafels. [laughter] mubin: no, no, no. we had ships with the perception of force. this is natural of empires, great civilizations that come. there is that political element. if you look at the 1950's, 1960's, and 1970's, you had this real socialist movement. 30 years of a really oppressive dictatorship. what kind of functioning products can dictatorships produce from their societies? so when a look at those places where there are a lot of muslims, and we say, it is because of islam. no, you have to look at situational factors. psychologists call it fundamental attribution error. you look at muslim and say it is because of islam. no, the situational stuff tells you they are under dictatorships. the joke in syria was that if you suck at being a doctor, they sent you to an islamic school.

there are situational factors. foreign policy grievances, definitely. 15 years after 9/11, what has happened since then? if we go, literally, with the question, is it a threat to your way of life? it has definitely changed her ?ife, but did it bring house -- it has st.anwasiin a definitely changed their life, but did it bring down the house? 15 years later, thank god we are not having this conversation in a european context. it is tricky with that. what is different between us and europe. there is the point about geographic proximity. the schengen borders. you can get get on a bus and across multiple borders without being stopped. that is a crazy idea. these guys were traveling back-and-forth. belgium, france, they can move like that. you can't move like that here. like karen was saying -- and i'm finishing up. the heavy investment in security and intelligence and whatnot. but i want to leave with what society is investing in. what is the resiliency narrative?

so it will become an existential threat to you if, suddenly, you start to panic, start freaking out every time you see a muslim woman in a hijab. beaches. burkinis on it is gotten to a point where he will miss it. suddenly, a mathematics professor on a plane who is doing equations, and it looks like some scribbles, and it is, "oh my god, it's isis." i will leave it with this. isis wrote, they said, "our strategy is to destroy the gray , so peoplexistence will retaliate against muslims, and the muslims will have two choices. either leave islam or toe