under what circumstances? major penney: the first time i went to iraq was in 2003 as part of the initial operations of iraqi freedom. the 4/10 exodus share he wing. we operated in the western iraq, the western desert to deterrence or press scuds that may hit coalition partners or might be aimed towards israel. supported special operations throughout western iraq. look back 10 years later on what happened, what you went through pursley, what the country went through, with the world with through, what do you think? well, these:

obviously are very personal opinions. as a member of our military, i truly believe that there are some things that are more important than me, which is why necessary,, if sacrifice myself for the things that we believe in as americans, our constitution, freedom, democracy, our rights, our way of life. and i know that there's a certain amount of risk that's inherent in that, not necessarily as being a service member. but democracy is necessarily open. that is one of the cultural values that we have.

if -- if wewonder some of what and it means to be american, some of what it means to be america, in our response to try to assure citizens of security. there's no such thing as perfect security. got littlee i said, girls and there's a line in finding nemo. if you never let anything happen to them, then nothing's ever going to happen to them. so it's kind of a cute way to going to be were america and everything that america stands for, we can't, as citizens, expect our government to provide 100% security.

now i do believe that there are smart things that the government , andd do to mitigate risk is important for our national interests. overzealous and have we gone -- has the pendulum swung too far such that we are set ining our value terms of what does it mean to be american and our desire to be totally safe? know and thatat i i believe in is resilient, is courageous, is strong and can rebuild. and we saw that spirit after 9/11. but we also saw, i think, a individuals,ome

from people who want to be assured of perfect security, to know that they are going to be completely safe, and that they are willing to give up some of those rights, some of those freedoms, that openness, so that they could be perfectly secure and perfectly safe. that isn't the courageous, resilient america that i know. 9/11o, as i think back to and what it means to me personally, and how things have changed over the last decade and what's the america that i want my daughters to grow up in, what's the kind of american that i want them to be, i believe there's something special about us. i believe that america truly is the greatest nation on earth. and i want them to have an openhearted pride in that and that they're not afraid and that they will refuse to be cowed. and i understand there is some risk involved in that and i'm

not advocating that we be foolish and accept unnecessary risk. but my father and my grandfather, my mother, my grandmother, part of the greatest generations and i think we are, too. we should act like it. steve: finally, your daughters are how old? major penney: they are five and seven now. steve: so when they say, mommy, what was your role in 9/11, what do you tell them? major penney: they don't really know what 9/11 is just yet. steve: as they get older, the less questions. major penney: i'll say that i was there. and you know, if they are at the age and it's appropriate to talk more in depth regarding what my personal experience was, i think it's also important to talk

about, i mean, you know, , it wasn't just about me and what i did in meyer craft. i mean there -- the tremendous response of the fighter -- the firefighters and the policeman and just strangers helping strangers in new york and here in d.c. i would want to use my story as a gateway to help them think else went everyone through on that day. i mean, this is, in many ways, our generations pearl harbor, if you will. themwould want to give some perspective on what was life like before. what was america like the four? could meet time, you your family at the gate when you walked off airplane.

dailyre are things in our lives that have fundamentally changed. so i would want to give them an idea of what america was like before and how did this change us. and have them step outside of themselves and get into the shoes of other people. and if my story can be a gateway into that, give them some -- and helpand help them identify more with our national experience and our national narrative of who we are and what it means to be american. steve: major heather penney, member of the air national guard here in washington, d.c., thank you for sharing your story with us. major penney: thank you.

announcer: next, we hear the account of rear admiral david who goes into the pentagon building in search of his friend. this is about an hour. steve: admiral dave thomas, as you reflect on the morning of september 11th, 2001, how did your day begin? thomas: i was in the navy's defense review. i had been there for about -- well there was a culminating 18-month project. so i had been in the job for about 17 and a half months. a series of with meetings and i was representing my boss in a meeting with another admiral in the pentagon. and we were discussing the navy's contribution to national defense and really just putting the finishing touches on our input to the defense review. steve: that project. what was the review all about

and what was your specific role? admiral thomas: every four years, all the services and the joint staff and the department of defense have a report to congress. a review of our defense posture in the force structure that supports it. this was to be a policy-based review. i had been in the strategy and policy director at on the navy staff. i became the executive officer of this under a navy flag officer. officers and 23 other had been working this project from most 18 months. and we were just about at endgame on september 11. steve: so this is just another in a series of meetings, pretty typical for you and your job. admiral thomas: it was a typical, busy day. i had an apartment close to the pentagon. i was in north parking. i parked. i came in, started my day.

at 5:00 at my desk with everyone else. we had just gotten done with this project. we were very proud of our work. it was a well executed project. steve: so the first plane hit the first hour. where physically were you? how did you get word of what was happening in new york? and with the first plane, what was your reaction? admiral thomas: i was in a as i mentioned, with a navy admiral, a very senior navy admiral and several other five officers. guy inrobably the junior the room. the admiral's aide came rushing into the room and said, sir, you got to watch this. turn on the television. and we watched the first plane fly into one of the 20 hours. and the immediate reaction in this was somehat tragic air traffic control miscue or some sort of accident area so we turned it off. got back to work. and subsequently, the aide came

back minutes later and said, sir, something else has happened. plane watched the second find to the second world trade center building. happen said,to gentlemen, ladies, this meeting is over. essentially men your posts. there will be some sort of response required of us and we must be ready. the meeting adjourned. and everyone walked or hustled to their respective offices in the pentagon. when you saw the second plane hit the second tower, for you personally, what were you thinking? what was your immediate reaction? admiral thomas: it was clear that this was no accident, that somehow this was intentional. this was not -- couldn't possibly be a coincidence, an act of terror was the first thing that popped into my mind, that somehow this was a coordinated attack on the united states. at least on those buildings in

new york city. and you start thinking, how should we respond? what could the navy's role be in this? the washington, the pentagon, the navy staff, what can we do? how should we respond? how can we help? steve: for those who have not been to washington, obviously, they've seen pictures of the pentagon, but where physically was your meeting and explain the physical structure, the different rings inside the pentagon. admiral thomas: sure. the pentagon is a five sided building, a series of concentric rings with the center ring being that outermost ring. ring, theg, the d searing, the b ring, a ring. -- the ae airing is is outside, essentially

courtyard. a nice courtyard. trees and grass and benches. so the series of concentric rings in between the rings you're actually outside. it's not just one solid building in some spots. ee and dle, you have and see ring and then your outside between the sea and be rings in some sections. so i was physically in a meeting in the e ring near the first quarter. so when this meeting adjourned, i walked from the first quarter in the ring along the outside of the e ring to my office all the way over on the six corridor on the fourth floor which is where my office was. 9:00. it's shortly after

your meeting as quickly adjourned. you're heading back where? to the defense review. so the six corridor, fourth floor in the pentagon in the seat ring. so i walked the outermost ring of the pentagon. the e ring on the fourth floor. root -- a newly renovated wedge of the pentagon that was being refurbished. ironically, that's where the plane flew into minutes after i got past it and got to my desk. someed in, said hello to friends, checked on some projects, i wouldn't call it a leisurely stroll. it was a busy like -- a businesslike walk. conducting business along the way from the meeting to my office and then again, minutes later, all this was gone.

some of my friends were gone as well. steve: do you remember what time you sat down at your desk? admiral thomas: not exactly. be 9:15, 9:20bly or so. sat down at my desk, called my best friend. he was in the navy operations center. aroundlly met for coffee 9:30, 9:45. i said check this out. this something going on and you need to know about this. then i almost immediately after shock and was a vibration and sort of a rumble as it's a big train had just gone by or a little tremble or had just occurred. large enough to know that this is something that just happened. there's been some sort of destination. some sort of bomber heaven for bid a plane in the pentagon. dashed off a quick note to mom, telling her i was ok. hit send and got up and went to see what happened. steve: you had never of course

felt something like that before in your years at the pentagon. not at my years at the pentagon. sort of a rumble, a dizzying feeling, not as if the world had turned upside down. but changed and shifted. but the ground under your feet is not steady. it's uncertain. it was the feeling. steve: so what happened next? admiral thomas: well, as i mentioned, i was on the fourth floor. there was a stairwell down to the first floor to the outside between the bee and the seat rings. so i wanted to be outside of the building was going to fall. i did want it to fall on me. iran outside and looked up again and i was between the b and the sea rings and there was smoke and i had a direction to go. so i headed towards the smoke in the concentric ring on the inside of the pentagon moving

counterclockwise. steve: and clearly, by this time, the pentagon between 9:00 and 9:30 is fully staffed. everyone who's on the job has been there or was there at the time. absolutely.as: steve: do you remember what the faces look like as you were leaving your office, heading outside? was there a sense of panic or fear or uncertainty, what do you remember? it's a bigmas: place. the population is not that densely packed. but the closer i got to the scene of the -- the airplane striking the pentagon, the more people you saw coming the other way. just panicked in many cases, calm, but deliberate moving away from this fire. so again, it's a pentagon. there's angles. you turn one corner in the corner where i had just looked up in their smoke became this accident scene. in thinking about it over the

years, it was the heavy things. there wasn't fire. i'm not outside. you have a hole punched. i still hadn't put the airplane piece together in my head. i just ran to this calamity, the smoke. in the windows inside what is the sea rain, the innermost wall , there's fire on all four floors and smoke, lack and smoke. there are big holes in the side of the building. and some snaps owns -- and some snapshots in my mind as if they're happening right now, there's five little dots. your mind tries to process these things as your moving. so five little dots in my processing it. that was in five little dots. that was a foot with black toe polish. or nail polish. seaweedeed what's that

doing waving in the creek or the stream? it was an seaweed. it was a piece of someone's head with hair washing in some kind of burst fire main or fresh water pipe. washat's that pile of -- it an animal killed there or someone field dressed a deer? that used to be a person. as your running pass this to find out what you can do to help these images burned on your head remain forever. it's as if it had just happened. again, in my mind, i picture -- and i can still see the sky -- this guy had seen everyday, one of the custodial folks at the pentagon, a small, old guy, wonderful bag, said hi to me every day when i saw him, always nicely dressed and very

polite. we exchanged greetings for a year and a half in this job. and here's this really old guy dragging to really heavy fire extinguishers to the scene of this fire. i can still picture that guy. never saw him again. you asked me about what are the people doing. there is a stream of people going to the scene of this horror, this inferno. of course, there's people leaving, going away from it. clearly had been involved in some of them were caught up in the let's get the heck out of here. the closer i got, the clearer it this plane -- it was not apparent it was a plane. a big piece of the fuselage, a big chunk of the forward tire and its main mounts had punched through the wall and are now resting outside between the b and the sea rings. so it's clear that this is the

navy operations center. this is where i mentioned my friend that i had just been on the phone with, this is a guy i roomed with at the naval academy, my best friend -- my best man debt -- my best man at my wedding, this was my best friend. this is where he works. steve: his name? admiral thomas: captain bob dolan. my best friend. he was in there. i mentioned i was in the strategy and policy division when i first got to the pentagon and they stood this organization. this defense review. we had both gone to command our ships together at the same time. i finished just a little bit before he did and got that great job. and then i got pulled out of that job to be part of the special project. and he ended up in my job. justtioned that they had refurbished this wedge of the pentagon. he called me and said, do you know anybody that could find us

room in the new operation center so we can have a office in the pentagon? so i got him his office. so he had my job in an office where i had arranged for him to be. i called him and said, turn on the tv and watch what is going on. so i was really interested in finding my friend at that instance. it all kind of clicked, oh, my gosh, my friend is in there. big heavy pieces of the plane punched through the e ring, the d ring, made it and theree c ring were places you could crawl into to try and help or see if there was anybody that could be helped. so i crawled into one and there was a big metal door and i could hear people counting on the other side and screaming. so i picked up the first thing i could find, this mental

stanchion, and started try to bust into the door. the yelling got louder because they could hear me banging and then it got quiet. because i wasn't making a progress. some so was they figured another way to get out. i hoped. i crawled in a little bit further. by this point, the conduit, the plastic that sheets the wires in the ceiling and some of the other parts -- the other plastic things were starting to melt. i took my shirt off and wrapped it around my head. these drops of plastic and metal are starting to hit skin and back and things. i was wearing a uniform so much of this. they changed the material, a

little bit so it's not quite as synthetic. it's a little more fire resistant. the shoes i was wearing were core foam. it's a wonderfully high-gloss shine. but not meant for firefighting are being in a hot environment. so they served to get a little uncomfortable. again splash some water on them. splash some water on my head in crawled in a little further into the pentagon trying to find my friend. try to find anybody. planes are certain to get sick. thesmoke gets thicker in hot gas has become intolerable. i wasn't making any progress in there. i crawled into another hole but it was hotter in there. i could see exactly where my friend's desk should have been. flames are shooting up. there, he, if he is has about had it or close to.

i'm trying to get as close as i can, screaming for him. somebody saw me and came running out past me. that was great news. an army officer covered with just dust and blood. so as i'm focusing 20 yards into this office space, it's on fire and falling apart. i notice there's this head, the sort of -- it was surreal. it was like this pretty odd head-shaped entity staring at me . the eyes just open and staring. and it blank. suddenly i realized what i was looking at was someone who was trapped and couldn't move it probably couldn't speak and in shock. andhis person is trapped it's a wall has fallen on them. i'm try to push this wall up and get enough room for him to squeeze out and his desk has

collapsed on him and his chair. i'm trying to lift this up and move this. it wasn't budging. as an screaming for someone to come help me, i'm screaming because this guy's going to go. there are flames at his backside and there's -- you can breathe. it's too hot. so as i'm screaming and i hear this noise behind me and there's this other naval officer crawling in on his hands and knees, crawling in on his belly like a combat crawl. and he yells what if you got? what's going on? i point and i say they're a guy trapped over there and i can't get this up. this guy had never met before, on hisrantino, he gets back and there's this hot molten plastic and metal dropping on him and me. he leg presses this desk heine for this man to get freed up, just enough to slide down and

escape. so his foot gets caught. he's almost clear and his foot gets caught and leaves his shoe behind and he slides and we take them outside. and it was a guy i had never met before. , auy named jerry hinson former naval aviator retired in the navy staff. worked in the same complex as my friend. outside and we got him some medical attention. or two, as weute try to catch our breath, me and dave tarantino, you look up in the sky and it's the same beautiful, beautiful september morning that it was when i got out of my car to start my day. it was dark when i got out of my car. and there's the clearest blue sky. it was just did that just happened?

and i know i'm going back into fun my friend. i was so fearful that i would never know him. happenedtory that just would never be known to jerry hinson. it was just bought nati. a reached over and grabbed his name tag and pulled it off and stuck it in my pocket. introduced myself and said it's great to meet you. i'll see you later. and went back into try to find my friend. at that point, there was some compressed gas cylinders that began to explode and some pieces of the ceiling started to come down. -- it was no more of that. no more going into pull people out of that part of the building. began an endless day of trying to find people.

occasionally funny people who were lost, who had wandered into smoke-filled areas, who could not figure how to get out and got them out or got them direction and then looking for other folks. it was, again, it's a huge office building. and i'd never seen it empty before. but at that point, it's probably an hour after the thing had begun. it was completely empty and anyone who is going to get out had left, was out or had been rescued. of foggy, this sort and empty offices everywhere, as if the people had just been instantly removed. clearly, a phone had been left down or a memo had been halfway written, a danish or a cup of coffee not consumed by halfway gone.

it was -- again, it's something that is indescribable. it was as if humanity had just left and there it was. steve: the gentleman you pulled out, the retired aviator. hinson.thomas: jerry great guy. great guy. i had never met him before. his best friend also died that day. s pookaer mate -- hi mate, the guy he shared a small office with. jerry lived and jack punches died. they were literally feet apart. ,nd why one and not the other it's like me and my friend. why him and not me? ironically, i saw the flight path of the airplane that flew into the pentagon. it actually made -- it had made a pass over the pentagon and high-- and had come into

and come in for another attempt. the first path that it took, if it had been lower would have taken it into my corridor, into the corridor where i was sitting. i tried to assist with finding other folks. i saw some really incredible first responders. the pentagon police force was magnificent. no one knew what was going on. no one knew. point --ly at this everybody had either seen or heard of the second airplane into the twin towers. was it going to be a second airplane into the pentagon? and we could hear airplanes occasionally fly overhead. were they combat or patrol? were they are folks try to protect the pentagon? was it a second attack? we didn't know. so the fear was high.

but no one ran off station. no one stopped try to help. it was, again, and incredible display of bravery, especially on the part of the pentagon police folks. there were wonderful. they were just great. steve: did anything in your years in the military, your training, your experiences on navy ships, prepare you for what you saw and what you personally had to do on 9/11? admiral thomas: well, did anything? i would say everything dead. that's what you do on a ship. i may ship officer. and that's what you do. when you are on a ship, there's no fire department you can call for help or no ambulances going to come. we training, everything train to and teach our younger officers is to overcome the fear, the instinctive go away

from the disaster, go away from the fire, to overcome that and then synchronize up with the rescue and firefighting effort. that's what we do as sailors. forgets -- i'll never seeing the other navy folks going to the scene as others rightfully less trained perhaps rightfully escaped and got to safety. steve: that was my next question. go --otivated you to obviously, you had a friend that you wanted to find out if he was safe. as everybody was leaving, you are heading into the scene. admiral thomas: it wasn't just me. that's important. it was training. the selfless,in the service that we sign up to be a part of. that's who we are.

that's why we are in the military. that's our defense. that is what we do. ethos.- that's our that's what we do. i'm very humbled by what i saw that day, the hero was him i saw and the willingness to abandon personal safety and participate, not knowing what might come crashing down, but to try to help those who might be trapped or those who might be still alive but unable to move. it was just incredible. what i saw.bled by to this day, it moves me very deeply. get back you try to in. obviously, the conditions had worsened. the flames were intense. the heat was intense. what happened next, what were you thinking? admiral thomas: clearly, there was no way to get into that -- there was no way to get access in that direction to that part of the building. try to findwas to

another way to get into the navy operations center and find others who might be trapped in there. big pieces of the building had started to come down at that point. there thought was -- started to be some coordination from the leadership. some professional first responders from fairfax county, for example. folks are then subsequently saw in haiti a years later, it was magnificent to see some of the same folks responding, running to the scene. come the strain professional started to arrive on station. a lot of activity outside where the low port is and the grassy part by the highway. .here we started the fbi came. the first responders from arlington in fairfax county fire

departments. forget one guy from the arlington fire department. he was the first guy that i saw had water and he came over and offered it to me. and it was the first water i had to drink in two hours. i'll never forget the arlington fire department. the just wonderful. was clear, point, it again, that anyone probably was going to get out had gotten out. of so there was the sense relief to be alive. know that there were people who weren't alive, who started the day not having any thought that this could happen and yet it did. i'm often puzzled by the term victim, when we talk about the ortagon or the twin towers

the field in pennsylvania. those brave people in that airplane. i don't think of anyone in the victim.agic day as a a victim is someone who gets hit by a meter when they are walking down the street, a victim of chance or gets mugged and gets robbed. they are victims. the people who died on 9/11, they weren't victims. they were casualties of an act of war, an attack on in my case our military headquarters. interesting that afternoon to still be trying to of --nd to suddenly sort it would sort of gel there were folks that were trying to reconstitute the pentagon and , and the navy

staff case folks had walked up , theill to the navy annex arlington and it for the navy, where the headquarters for the marine corps are. and the marines, like they are, are our brothers. they offered us space and we reconstituted the navy staff there. charge, inlon was in concert with our chief of operations. folks either stayed at the pentagon and tried to help or when up to reconstitute our at the left seat/right seat with the marine corps. ofwas a magnificent display what you do in a crisis. you plan for entering four. and to see it actually happened was magnificent. i mentioned i was on the defense review. a report to congress, the

-- that secretary of defense report to punish was due on the 30th of september. in sort of a gallows humor, talking to some guys as we were trying to figure out what we could do to help, someone said that's it for the report. i guess there will be a delay. that was the groundswell from the action officers, the under guys. and the word quickly got out and rightfully. it was -- again, such a motivating moment, the defining moment for who we are. not only are we going to delay it, were going to do turn it in on time was the direction. to turn are we going this thing in on time, but we've now got to retool it completely because the worlds just changed for our defense. so just began an incredible couple of weeks as we redid the whole project. of course, we had a good foundation for. but it was a great reminder that this was our military headquarters.

we got attacked. but this is the united states. we're not going to let this stop us. we're better than that. of course, will all come to work tomorrow and figure out how to work around this. but we've got a job to do that just got harder during ok. that's our challenge. but we are up to it. that's what leaders do. proud ofve always been being in the united states armed forces to i've never been prouder than i was on that day when i saw the leadership and the willingness to sacrifice on behalf of shipmates and fallen comrades. it was just magnificent. it was a day that changed everything. steve: what adjectives would you use to describe the scene? we saw firefighters trying to bring down the smoke that went on for hours after the attack kerry but you are right there. was a chaotic?

how would you describe the scene as the early and mid afternoon hours evolved? admiral thomas: it was very deliberate. i think to call a pandemonium or chaos would be a huge to service and not accurate. there were small acts playing out. i mention there were four or five people copy had a door that couldn't get out of a burning building. space.a secure it turns out it was a wall for secure material. so you got that playing out. but right next to that, you've got another act occurring where someone's dragging audi person who's just been crushed and who's taking him to triage. , in thisfurther down scene, you've got folks the liberally coming, but at a quick pace leaving the operation center, the chaos, the flames in the burning building.

the very deliberate. not screaming. not yelling, not in panic. but very deliberately in a thesed way exiting alternate route, the way they were trained to. i would say almost universally, folks did what first of all he were trained to do and what they should have done. it was a great example of people doing the right thing, not just for them, but for the common good. i don't mean to put too fine a point on it, but i am really proud of how we responded in the immediate minutes after and in the ensuing days. i'm very proud of that. story backring your to your best friend, captain robert dolan. admiral thomas: yeah. so didn't find him.

i had driven to work that day and my car was caught up in the first responder and then subsequent response emergency vehicles. so i couldn't get to my car. morning, i'm the covered with soot and i only have one shoe and my uniform is in tatters and i'm just exhausted. and i have no car in my apartment is three miles away. walked to the highway, walked across the highway, walked darlington and stuck at my thumb and for the first time since i was probably 17, hitchhiked at 2:00 in the morning dressed like that. there's not many cars. by and backed up.

had no money. he said that's ok. pop in. where you just down at the pentagon? i said yes. he said, god bless you. and i'm glad your life. i said, me, too. he drove me home. didn't charge me anything. gett to my apartment, had a -- had a zillion entry machine messages. and started plowing through them until i got to my best friend's wife, lisa. who said we haven't heard from bob. have you heard from bob? -- andre were six or there were six of those, six or seven i couldn't listen to because i knew in my heart and my mind. soy called her and said i was just there. there's parts of the pentagon

that are still sealed off. and sure he's ok. i made something up. but he wasn't ok. and if the eye agent found bob's naval academy class ring. so in my navy career, i've done scores of burials at sea. and they've all been cremate. and it's a wonderful ceremony for deceased, former militant. people of all services. you got to see. you pass 100 fathom curve and we stop the ship and had a ceremony. it's a wonderful service. and a great tribute to our deceased service members. but they've all been cremate's. a couple months after 9/11, i

had the honor to company my best friends remains to the 100 fathom curve off of mayport, florida. his favorite home port in mind, too. it was the only full casket burial at sea i've ever done. bob's remains -- i couldn't say what was in there. but not much. i had the honor with bob's brother-in-law, a navy captain also, to barry bobbitt c. friend andest there's not a day that goes by that i don't miss him. i stopped wearing my navy during the day. it didn't mean to me what it meant after that. it was a ring you get is a second-class midshipman. it's a big tradition thing. it just didn't mean anything to me after that. i stuck it in my pocket. it was sort of a talisman, a lucky coin at that point. i couldn't wear it ever again and didn't.

so i miss him. a great guy. -- a much better naval officer than i've ever dreamed of being, and a great dad and a great has been, too. and a great friend. steve: how do you explain this to his wife and his kids? well, you know, it's funny. we talk about service to our country. whenever i am in the airport these days, people will shake my hand and say thank you for your service to our country, because i'm wearing a uniform. i think of service to our country not is just wearing a uniform, as what you do for your country. the most incredible service i've ever seen was done by bob's wife lisa, who raised their two children, becca and though --

beckett and beau. they are wonderfully in adults now. she picked up the pieces and picked up the pieces of her broken heart and put them aside to continue to keep a home, to keep bob's memory alive. hero and others like her. but she's sort of the archetype of this euro. of all the things that came out of its, the wonderfulness is what lisa has done in the aftermath of 9/11. has gotto your country not much to do with just wearing a uniform. i'm proud to serve in this uniform. but there is a whole more to serving your country than just putting on a uniform. reunited withe jerry hinson and dave tarantino at the smithsonian. how did that evolve? admiral thomas: i was approached

by the smithsonian. they asked if i had saved my uniform and i had forgotten when i got back to my apartment, i bundled it up in a trash bag and tossed in the back of my closet. so i was happy to give that. this reluctant to give away the name tag that i pulled off of commander tarantino. dave tarantino. it meant a lot to me. big memento keeper. but that was a memento i was going to keep. persuasive in a very kind way and explaining how very important that would be as a part of history. so i donated it gratefully, donated it to these missoni and. dave and i and jerry hinson had never met before that day. to get acquainted after something like that was really interesting. and a musing -- and a moving

experience for me to go to jerry hinson's home and see his family and to know that it was like -- it's one of those "it's a knowrful life" moments, to he wouldn't have been there if not for dave tarantino and i and moment,t serendipitous that we happen to find him and happened to be the right guys to get him out and a happy ending that would never have occurred. that wonderful family ending and embracing this wonderful man never would've occurred. there's many ironies. jerry hinson had flown multiple missions over vietnam and only to die at a desk in the pentagon would have been the irony of it all. but he didn't, thank goodness. this quadrennial defense report was turned in.

i was glad to be a part of it. even more poignant to me is what happened over the ensuing 12 months at the pentagon. at the pentagon for another 18 months after the pentagon. i had another two or there. and every day, i would go down and stare at the rubble, the destroyed part of the pentagon. and word got out that the secretary of defense, secretary of defense rumsfeld, had thrown down a challenge to the construction crew to remove the rubble and let's bring this place back within a year. watch that you, to activity, in the wake of all the death and the attack and the injured folks, to watch that reconstruction, the removal of the destroyed and the rebuilding of the pentagon, my office, my post, to watch that was just incredibly inspiring and,

frankly, kept me and others going as we tried to put the pieces back of our personal lives and our offices and our destroyed projects and destroyed groupings of staff officers. steve: for those who go to the smithsonian and look at the exhibit, including your mementos, what do you want people to take away from that admiral thomas: well, first of think thatd like to people would never forget, that we as a nation must always put together in time of crisis and united in first protecting our values, but also protecting our nation. and that's a delicate balance.

that's an important balance to achieve. but that's one of the most incredible and powerful messages that institutions like the smithsonian and the smithsonian specifically help promote the here and our nation, surrounded by all those monuments to our nation, the goodness of our nation, to have those tangible reminders of how vulnerable those freedoms are, our liberties are, and how important it is to not let that vulnerability drive us to some bad behavior. -- so keeping that message alive, in the setting of the smithsonian, think is the most powerful piece of the display. hope that, when display,sit 9/11, the they would remember that our

freedom doesn't come without some cost. that there's a need to be vigilant and to protect our freedoms. but also to remember that those freedoms are more than just -- just words and more than just being able to do whatever you want. they are founded in our constitution. they require all of us to actively participate and to support each other and our nation. so that's what i take away from thepentagon memorial or pentagon -- the 9/11 piece of the pentagon display at this missoni and. steve: in the navy, of course, with the uss in new york, the uss arlington, what does that mean for you and why did the navy feel compelled to have these two vessels? admiral thomas: we name our ships after great rattles, great ,eaders, great locations significant locations and events in our nation's history. to always have something

tangible to inspire us. crew, thatpart of a is sort of your rallying cry. there's always something to remind you of the greatness of our nation and the greatness of our people. and our ability to respond to challenges and overcome. so i'm very proud of all of our ships in all of our sailors. and i'm especially proud to have the uss new york and the pre-commissioned unit of the uss arlington as part of the ships that i work with every day. steve: when you went to bed early in the morning on september the 12th, first of all, did you go to bed? did you get some sleep? admiral thomas: no, i couldn't sleep. to think about. too many people to think about and try to remember to call or write to. my mom, lisa dolan, my kids. so there was lots to do.

-- so ik assure our took a shower and got to it. steve: so what was racing through your head? admiral thomas: uncertainty about my friend. uncertainty about what to do next, how to help, what my office mates were going through. we had no accounting for many of them. so trying to muster everyone and make sure everyone was ok in had a place to stay or knew were to go for work. many folks were in the same boat i was, for they couldn't get to their car. that through, taking care of your shipmates, taking care of the people you work with . and then thinking about the mission. we've got this project. ? where we supposed to go where will we work tomorrow? our office became part of a crime scene. so we sort of worked around that a bit and found additional space or another place to work.

but there was -- all of our files were inside of this crime scene, c can get there. so all those sort of -- big picture and small, narrowly focused thoughts by through my head at the same time. steve: and at what point in this day were you able to put the entire day's events in perspective, what happened in new york, the downing of flight 93, or happened at the pentagon, the president returning, the nation. as all of this began to unfold, you are one part of this story. when did you take it in totality? admiral thomas: it took weeks. it was important to get back to our and do our job and make part of the response to this happen. -- or not sitd back, but to take a pause and develop an overall picture of what had happened, i didn't

watch tv. i didn't have that opportunity for some weeks to sort of catch up on all the rest of the pieces of this. i think many people that i worked with were very intent on doing what we needed to do to be , first of all, completing our project, but part of the bigger national military response to what had occurred. it was clear from that first meeting that was adjourned when that second plane flew into that building that i described earlier, it was clear that there would need to be some military response or some response that would involve the military in a big way. so ensuring that i did my best and did everything i could to make that happen correctly was the absolute focus of my attention and efforts. earlierned