but after china joined the world trade organization, our average growth rate has been reduced to only 2%. predatory trade practices, product dumping, currency manipulation, which is a big one and intellectual property theft have taken millions of jobs and trillions of dollars in wealth right out of hour hands, right out of our country. so sad that we allowed this to happen. our incompetent politicians were not watching. and the ones that were watching, were taken care of in some form, because this should have never been allowed to have happened. it is no great secret that many of the special interests funding my opponent's campaign are the same people profitting from these terrible trade deals. they are terrible.

terrible for everybody. the same so-called experts advising hillary clinton are the same people who gave us nafta. china's entry into the world trade organization, the job-killing trade deal with south korea, another disaster. and now the transpacific partnership that they are pushing so strongly. the verdict is in. all of the special interests that the media raced, which they raced to get comment from have been proven wrong over such a long period of time. every single deal they promoted, every lie and every prediction has crashed. just crashed. they've been so absolutely wrong, and they've been so bad for our country. our manufacturing base has crumbled. communities have been hollowed out.

wages have declined. and households are making less today than they were in the year 2000. i propose a detailed plan to reform our trade policy and bring vast new jobs and wealth to america. we need our welfare. we don't have wealth. we are a debtor nation. this includes the following steps. i'm going to direct the secretary of commerce to identify every violation of trade agreements that a foreign country is using to harm our country, and our workers. that's what's happening. they're being harmed and our country is being harmed. i will use every tool under american and international law to end these abuses and i will use our greatest business leaders and finest negotiators and i will tell you, some of them are in this room right now, not all of them, but some of them. and i know who you are.

and honestly, we're going to be calling on you because we have people negotiating the biggest deals in the world, far bigger than your company deals. your company deals are like little deals by comparison. take some of these big companies and look at some of these trade deals, hate to say it but companies are peanuts. but we are going to use our best. right now we have political hacks negotiating the biggest most important por -- most important deals in the world. we are going to start with nafta, which is causing so much damage to our country. we will entirely renegotiate nafta into a deal that will either be a good one for us as a country and our workers, or we will terminate it until a brand new and productive deal can be signed. [applause] we'll also -- and we have to -- we're going to keep america out

of transpacific partnership unless we can do something that's phenomenal and i'm not seeing it right now. i can tell you that. i'm not seeing it. [applause] next, i'm going to instruct my treasury secretary to label china -- i like china, they're my tenant and they buy condos all the time. they're just fine. but you know what? they are a currency manipulator. and we are ging to apply tariffs to any country that devalues its currency to gain an unfair advantage over the united states. they are a manipulator, grand laster level. we can't -- grand master level. we can't allow it to happen. how are people and our representatives and politicians, don't have even a little clue as to how to play the game. we have a trade deficit this

year with china of approximately $500 billion. what kind of a deal is that? and this has been going on for years. $200 billion, $300 billion, $400 billion for years. i'm going to instruct the united states trade representative to bring trade cases against china. china's unfair subsidy behavior is prohibited by the terms of its entrance into the w.t.o. and i intend to enforce the rules. and i'm sure we'll make a deal somewhere along the way. but they're not playing fairly and our politicians don't understand how to play the game. [applause] if china does not stop its illegal activities including theft of american trade secrets and intellectual properties, i will apply countervailing duties

until china ceases and desists. you know what that means? a single action of enforcing intellectual property rules alone would add millions of new american jobs. according to the united states' international trade commission, improved protection of america's -- think of this. improved protection of america's intellectual property in china would add two million jobs a year within the united states every single year. and we do nothing. we allow them to get away with it. who can blame them? i don't blame them at all. if you can get away with it, get away wit. we are going to stop the outflow of jobs from our country and open a new highway of jobs back into our country. here's how the plan adds up. we are proposing a $4.4 trillion tax cut that will score as a

$2.6 trillion under dynamic growth models, which is how taxes should be scored. [applause] this includes the child care plan that we announced the other day. our economic team has further modeled that the growth induced based from trade, energy and regulation reform will shave another $1.8 trillion off of the remaining debt. that leaves around $800 billion. this money can all be saved through simple, commonsense reforms. if we just save one penny of each federal dollar spent on nondefense and nonentitlement programs, we could save almost $1 trillion over the next decade.

one penny. we can all do that. \[applause] mr. trump: save over a trillion. again this is spending that does not touch defense, because we have to buildup our military, which is so terribly depleted and that does not touch entitlements. if our plan exceeds the $3.5% 10-year growth average that our jobs proposed will actually reduce and start really strongly reducing the deficit. savings will be compounded by the fact that people who are currently receiving unemployment or welfare will finally be able to find jobs. this is the most pro-growth, pro--jobs, pro-families' plan. perhaps in the history of our country. this is what our new future will look like. i'm going to low you are your

taxes very, very substantially. i'm going to get rid of massive amounts of unnecessary regulation. all of these regulations on your business and in your life, i'm going to unleash america's energy. i'm going to repeal and replace obamacare. i'm going to appoint justices of the supreme court who will follow the constitution. [applause] i'm going to rebuild our depleted military and take care of our vets who are treat sod badly. [applause] in many cases, our vets are treated not nearly as well as people who come into our country illegally. we can't have that. i'm going to save your second amendment, which is under siege. i'm going to stop illegal immigration and drugs from pouring into our country and totally poisoning our youth and

others. [applause] a tremendous problem. \and yes, we will build the wall. the wall will be built. and just in case you are worried about who is going to pay for it, mexico will pay for it. being totally serious about that. mexico will pay for it. and you understand, mexico, by the way, will look at the trade deficit we have with mexico, it's massive. the wall is peanuts compared to what we're talking about. mexico will pay for the wall. and i'm going to renegotiate our disastrous trade deals especially nafta and we will only make great trade deals that put the american worker first and put the american worker back to work. [applause] that includes our miners and steelworkers. they're going back to work. we will rebuild our roads, our bridges, our tunnels, our highways, our airports, schools,

hospitals. we'll rebuild everything. american cars will travel the world. americans planes will soar the skies. and american ships will patrol the seas. american steel will send new skyscrapers into the clouds. american hands will rebuild this nation. and america's energy harvested from american sources will power this nation. american workers will be hired to do the jobs. we will put new american metal and new american steel into the spine of this country. jobs will return. incomes will rise. new factories will come rushing back to our shores. we will make america wealthy again. we will make america strong again.

and we will make america great again. thank you very much. god bless you. thank you. thank you very much. [applause] thank you. [applause] >> thank you, sir. we will now move to our fireside chat format, where we're pleased to have as our interviewer john paulsen, a member of the economic club of new york board, and president of paulsen

company. we would also like to thank those members who took the time to share their thoughts and ideas on topics and questions for mr. paulsen online so that they could be perhaps used in this conversation. i think we also had some members of the board and others provide some input directly to mr. paulsen so thank everyone for that. the chairs, i think, are ready, gentlemen. please take your seats and let the conversation begin. [applause] mr. trump: what happened with the teleprompter? he's a little late, right? i had nothing to do with it. mr. paulsen: first let me thank you for speaking with us today. i think many of us found your

economic plan very bold and ambitious. mr. trump: thank you. mr. paulsen: i was talking with marty feldsteen -- excuse me, with glen hubbard, dean of columbia's business school. mr. trump: big difference. mr. paulsen: and we're talking about how many economists have resigned themselves to low growth, 1.5% or 2% range for the u.s. you believe with your economic policies we can grow 3.5% plus. could you summarize the key components of that plan and if possible quantify the contribution to the increased growth? mr. trump: certainly, i think that i watch the world and i look at china and other countries and if china goes down with g.d.p. to 7% or even 8%, it's likely to have a revolution. what do they do? they start devaluing, do

-- devaluing they get it back on , track one way or the other. i've had friends come to me that have been devastated, people that are manufacturers, good manufacturers, very successful people. but they become less and less successful because they can't beat the system. in this way too, it's a rigged system. and they almost do well and then boom, a massive devaluation in china or other countries and there are plenty of other countries out there, some are actually hurting china now. but the fact is, when they have 7% and you see it, they start dropping to 7% or 8% and they consider that to be a disaster, yet we're stuck at 1%, probably the real number is 1% but certainly no more than 2%. and then you try to learn to live with it. we can't do that anymore. so we're going to unleash tremendous opportunity, we're bringing back the trillions of dollars that come into this country. i said in my remarks that brings

a lot of companies back. they leave not because taxes are too high but they leave to get their money. we're going to unleash a lot with the regulations. the thing that most surprised me in going around, because i've been to, i mean, i've been everywhere. i have been working, this started on june 16, who knew this was going to happen, right? but it started on june 16 and it's been amazing thing. but what's really amazing from a business standpoint, i speak to big businesses, the biggest businesses in the world and i also speak to the small business people and the farmers and -- if they had their choice between this massive tax cut from 35% down to 15% or regulation relief, they would take, almost 100% of the time, regulation relief. the regulations are a disaster. they're killing people. they're killing the farmers. they're kill thinking energy folks. they've killed the mines. and you know, we need

regulations for safety, for environment, for certain reasons but it's gone so crazy, it's gotten so excessive. they would take that over taxes. so we're going to unleash a tremendous number of jobs coming in, plus growth, cutting waste, fraud, and abuse. think of that word waste. a penny plan a penny out of every dollar. i know you can do very easily. but we have to appoint people to head massive agencies. companies that would be large companies, some would be bigger than the companies. if you take a penny off of the dollar, and you do that for a number of years, all of a sudden great things start to happen. in addition, we spend a tremendous amount of the military, which we will increase. we have no choice.

we defend other countries that are not paying what they should be paying. we are losing billions and billions of dollars on defend ring other people, some of whom do not even appreciate the fact we are defend ring them. many of us -- many of them do do not us because we ask. those countries, i am sure, will start to pay for defense. it is a fantastic number, a very large -- it is a shocking number. a shocking number. i will say this. i have great respect for japan here it we defend japan, saudi arabia, south korea, 28,000 soldiers in south korea -- these are economic behemoths . wealthy countries. when i said they have to pay more the general refuted my statement and said, doesn't mr.

trout know that japan pays 50% of the cost of its defense? i said, why don't they pay 100%? the numbers are massive. when you add it all together, a lot of good things will happen. thank you. [applause] the corporate tax rate, the cornerstone of your economic policy is reducing the .orporate tax rate to 15% the secretary of the treasury, 28% rate.sed a u.k. is 20%, ireland is 12.5%. how did you settle on 15% as the target? mr. trump: a lot has to do with cutting because we will be cutting costs as part of the tax plan. we will do something that will be so amazing. a lot of it is competition.

you look at ireland being almost the lowest. we're not the lowest, but we are getting down there. right now we are the highest in the world. we set it from a competitive stand point and added to that the cost cutting. -- when weemendous buy companies we like to buy companies that are poorly run because we have so much room to cut. we don't want a perfectly running machine were we cannot do too much. we are not a perfectly running machine. we have tremendous waste and abuse. our military orders of equipment that is politically motivated. a are buying equipment that is not as good as they want kerry the equipment that they want is better and less expensive, we can so many things that we do if we do it properly. my whole thing has been make

america great again. we are going to make america great again. [applause] mr. paulsen: now it is time for is on ourdstein, who board and the chair of the department of economics at harvard are part of the issue in reducing tax rates is the impact on the deficit. what offsets would you propose to compensate for reduced revenue? you mentioned that you believe over time your economic policy can be revenue neutral. mr. trump: and hopefully beyond that. time this willh work out, absolutely. the big things in terms of neutrality will be the amount of business that we generate. the fact companies will no longer be leaving. you have to look at the list of companies -- i told you that ford motor company, they are taking all small cars to make in

mexico. it is a story in the newspaper, but devastating to michigan and areas of the country that have to go through this. we have to keep companies here. companies are leaving because taxes are so high. companies are leaving because they cannot bring money back in. they're leaving because of regulation. the regulation is so massive companies are leaving. number one, we will be keeping companies. they will not be leaving because they will have a better deal than where they are looking to go. we will couple that with cutting costsary costs, lot of that we will be cutting. that will be enhanced by certain things like the military and the defense of other countries, which not a lot of people knew. until i started speaking about it a year ago, not a lot of people knew that we defend, for

example, germany or japan. we knew south korea, and we are defending south korea. saudi arabia as an example. lots of money. they don't pay us very much for what we do. willould ask, how long saudi arabia even be there if we were not defending them? i think we should defend them, but we have to be compensated properly for the difference. i am sure they will be thrilled to hear that. [laughter] was thesen: one issue potential for default on the u.s. debt perfect has a near credit history. is there any scenario you would consider defaulting on the u.s. debt? mr. trump: no. there are scenarios to buy back debt.

this isn't like building a real estate project and the market crashes and you have your shot at a bank. i love those days. i'm one of the great in the world at that, i love buying back and negotiating debt. in the united states you are talking about something beyond the gold standard. the answer is no. things.discount and do the debt of this country is absolutely 100% sacred. [applause] mr. paulsen: regarding , you said that we have too much regulation. that excess regulation in peds growth. what would be your strategy for reducing excessive regulation? thetrump: i go back to

heads of various groups and agencies. all of the different parcels of government. i would be putting very, very top people into negotiations. we put political people into negotiations. people that gave contributions. people that worked the system, people that should not be there. when we say can you cut 1% off the budget they say this is impossible. there are people in this room, i won't call them out, they say i could get it down 25% in one year or more. i said take it easy, relax. people in this room would say that. when you hear 1% a year for 10 years it is a massive difference. done at the it level of the group running whatever individual plane within government they are running. we don't have the right people.

we have people that should not he doing what they are doing. we have people that have people under them that are far more competent. those people lose respect for the system when they see what is coming. i can't tell you how strongly i believe the trade deals are so bad that has destroyed our country. you look at places, upstate new york where they lost 40% of manufacturing. they will lose more. hillary clinton said when she was running for the senate she would bring jobs back to new york, she meant new york state, but new york. you look at things that are happening, building after building is empty. they all left. negotiate great trade deals, and we are not including that to a large extent in the numbers we are giving,

but when we take nafta and make it a two-way highway, not a one have- things go out and we at least equal, at least, we have catching up to do. this countryipped of its manufacturing jobs. companies destroyed companies. thousands of companies, millions of jobs, we will get that back. when i talk about tax cutting and balancing, a big part of it will be we are going to have great trade deals. do very well, put him in the room for a couple of days. we have the greatest negotiators in the world. we have to use when china enters the negotiation. they come in with 20 people that are the toughest, smartest, meanest -- they don't say good

morning, isn't it wonderful how the yankees did? there is no talk. we get down to business, no game. we put people in there that don't know what they are doing. this is why we have deficits of $500 billion with one country. we rebuilt china. i say that with respect to china. they used to tell me before i announced i was running that, i have friends from china, the richest people, they cannot believe what china gets away with. when i announced i was running for president, they said i didn't mean that. they didn't know this was going to happen. in the old days they would tell me we don't believe, your government is stupid. now they deny they ever said that. [applause]

mr. paulsen: on staffing, how would you run the government to make it more effective? what would be your criteria in choosing the senior at this traders? mr. trump: track record. confidence. love of what they are doing. how they are getting along with people. references. oh different when you are running a company when you hire top people. you need some, but not a lot. you need people that are truly capable. much has to do with past history, how have they done, how has it worked out? you understand what i mean perhaps better than anyone. we have to get the best people

did we could not be so politically correct. people are afraid to walk and talk. they cannot speak. there are afraid they will say the wrong word and be shunned from society. don't worry, it only lasts for about a week if that happens. we have to stop being politically correct. we have to get the best and the being so politically correct. we have to get the best and the finest. this is going to be the last election we have a chance to make this country great again, make it strong again, make it all of the things we want to see. i really believe this is the most important election we have been involved in. the supreme court justices i if they about before --

put certain people onto the country isrt, our going to be a whole different country. we are going to be a totally different deal. this is the last chance that, in my opinion, our country has to get at her, to get well. i think this election is so important. not just because of me but because of the ideas we have it is going to be a very important election. we have people showing up, 25,000 people showing up, 30 house and people. -- 30,000 people. had one in pensacola the other day. we had this massive, tens of thousands of people showed up. speech oned this

twitter, we don't even take ads. people want to see great things happen in this country. the people of this country really love this country. other countries want to see great things happen. i think this is going to be the most important election we have had for many decades. and i'm not sure you can have a second chance at it. >> on jobs, what do you benefit from your economic plan to create high-paying jobs going forward? >> i think h&r block is a disaster. it is so complicated. you need 10080i q to understand it.

that she needed a 10080i q to understand it. 180 i q toa 10080 understand it. ithink almost all industries, could tell you an industry we do well. in the energy up industry, we have amazing people in that industry. they are being absolutely decimated and energy is so important. we found out through new technology. we have more than just about anybody in the world. our land turns out to be so valuable. we have to be very environmentally sound.

it is incredible when you look at what has happened in the last five years. we have to get out of that war, we have to knock out isis. i didn't want to be in the war but we have no choice, the way they got out is bad. we have to knock out isis. hugh see the atrocities they committed. hung from the racks of a house like a slaughterhouse, then their throat cut. then we talk about waterboarding, it is an incredible thing. we are not playing on the same playing field. but if you look at what the atrocities committed just weterday with the meat hooks have no choice but to totally decimate isis.

we have to do it. we have to know -- we have no choice. then we have to get back to rebuilding our country. it is a mess. >> if you are to advise the fed, what would you advise them to do regarding interest rate policy? >> i think what is going to happen is you have them until january 1, because obama wants to go, he wants to play golf. being totallyd is controlled politically. they are not raising rates.

i think obama wants to go out. shouldn't be looking this way. martin may or may not disagree with me. i think it is a terrible thing that is happening because it is very political. like many other groups in this country. i think you're going to have low interest rates. the market will stay artificially high and then we will have to see what happens after that. said, i of that being like a low interest rates. i will say it has become, in my opinion, the fed has become extremely political. i really believe if it was a political decision they would go

with a political decision every single time. >> that concludes our fireside chat. on behalf of myself and everyone here, thank you very much for joining us today. trump: thank you very everybody. thank you. >> we're going to ask of you to mr.-- to stay in place so trump and governor pence and their security detail can leave. next -- the next meeting of

the economic club will be a breakfast on monday. that same day, monday, september 19, we are hosting a luncheon featuring paul ryan, speaker of the house, well -- where he will share his economic reform plan. >> thank you, thank you very much. >> there are still a few seats remaining for both of those events. and we hope you might be able to join us. thank you for joining us today. >> c-span's washington journal,

live every day with news and policies that impact you. coming up monday, the latest census bureau -- and why -- with center for law and social policy executive director of the via goldman and heritage domestic follow see fellow. and then spending numbers with dave leventhal, senior political reporter for the center of public integrity. -- chair thomas hicks will discuss vulnerability to hacking. be sure to watch c-span's washington journal. join the discussion. >> our road to the white house coverage continues with libertarian presidential candidate gary johnson. detroit economic club he

talked about a recent television appearance where he failed to correctly answer a question about the military conflict in syria. this is about an hour. -- here he appeared to heartynt to extend a thank you to the folks here at the detroit economic club. just let you know i was in west lafayette last night when the governor -- this morning was get up at 5:00 to make it here. i can to you this, getting home at 5:00 was much more fun than getting up at 5:00. as governor johnson will tell him anythingask and everything because he is that kind of person. here is the first question. this came up in the car this morning.

the last two times we had a president whose last anytime was johnson, one got impeached, the other got us into vietnam. what's different about a gary johnson? mr. johnson: let's start with the impeachment side. i've den a couple of things in my life, or believe in several several things but one is if you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything. and another is, i think the unforgivable in life is saying one thing and doing another. i am not a hypocrite. and then with regard to lyndon johnson and getting involved in johnson and getting involved in vietnam, i do fault johnson for escalating the vietnam war. my first vote for president was mcgovern -- was a vote for mcgovern against nixon because of the vietnam war. i don't think we should involve ourselves as a country in supporting regime change. in my lifetime irk cannot think of one single example where that

has worked out positively. mr. shabaz: let's start with the big issue on the minds of lots of folks, jobs and the economy. i did a little research last night, in michigan the latest unemployment figures show michigan is about 4.5%, nationally it's 4.9%, detroit itself is 9.1%. what can, or what should the role of the president be in job creation? mr. johnson: when i ran in the 2012 cycle, when i ran for president, rick perry was beating his chest over the fact that he had created more jobs in texas than anybody else running for president. well they did an analysis and it was actually me. and my response to that was, was the same as when i was governor of new mexico. that was, i did not create one single job as governor of new mexico. the plivet sector creates jobs.

government does not create jobs. but what i did do and would do as president is create certainty. certainty that taxes were going to only go down. certainty that rules and regulations were going to only get better from a common sense standpoint. i did run the state government. i will run the federal government. i will appoint everyone to head all of these agencies and with certainty, i will tell you that rules and regulations will not get any worse. they'll get better. with certainty, taxes, i'll sign on to any proposal that simplifies taxes, i'll sign on to any proposal that reduces taxes. and as governor of new mexico, over an eight-year period -- period, this had never happened before, not one penny of tax went up anywhere. so given that kind of certainty, and yet, -- yes, it would be

wonderful to sign on to reduction in taxes. but in an environment of certainty, i'd suggest that business does have confidence and that jobs do grow. mr. shabaz: how do we restore, the data shows the economy is turning around but americans don't feel it. they don't feel they're making more money. they feel like they're sort of getting left behind. how do you make that emotional connection with the american voter which is also crucial in leadership? mr. johnson: having been governor of new mexico, running for president of the united states, i really do think that crony capitalism is alive and well. i do believe that pay to play exists. and that's when government picks winners and losers. and i will tell you, having been governor of new mexico, as you can -- you can just absolutely

bring an end to that. i had a supporter after i left office talking about pay to play. and i said to my supporter, i said, jerry, i didn't to any of that. zero of that and he gos, gary, i know that, we all know that. it's never happened before and it will never happen again. i will just tell you that good government is easy. it is easy to bring all of that to an end and what i think people are really looking for in this country is equal opportunity and it is a system right now that is game and i also believe that and i also believe that with whom you elect you can bring that to an end. mr. shabaz: another issue is the m.r. shabaz: another issue is the issue of trade and trade deals. whether it's nafta 20-something years ago or the transpacific partnership. are you a free trade her fair trieder?

are you for tariffs? what's your position on trade? mr. johnson: i'm for free trade. no tariffs. currently, of course, donald trump is talking about a 35% tariff on imported fwoods. currently that number is 1.4%. who is going to pay for the 35%? i make the pledge that as president of the united states, i'm going to sign on to anything that makes things better. all right. nothing is perfect. i would sign t.p.p. i believe that it benefits the united states. that we are all about high tech, high-wage jobs and that in fact it would do that. >> what about the criticism in these trade deals that sort of undermine american businesses, particularly american manufacturing, mr. trump, when he talks about american jobs, going overseas, is going to go and bring those jobs back here to america. have we negotiated bad trade deals? do we need to renegotiate mr. johnson what we have? mr. johnson: pledge to you as president of the united states

and i love this aspect of having been governor of new mexico, look, i immersed myself in these issues, immersed myself from the standpoint of making things better. always. and analysis of everything that came on my desk in the context of will this make things better. now, saying that, i may have vetoed more legislation than the other 49 governors in the country combined. i vetoed 750 bills. only two were overturned. i took line item veto to a new art form. i saw a lot of legislation that benefited those that had money and influence giving them more money and influence. i saw a lot of legislation that politically was spending money that was not going to have any impact whatsoever on the issue itself. but, i was also completely transparent. writing veto messages, going before the new mexico people and explaining my side on all of this. i just think it is significant

that in a state that was two to one democrat, me being fiscally conservative over the top, i was voted in by a larger margin the second time that the first time. people appreciate good stewardship of tax dollars. mr. shabazz: we are in detroit. the automobile bailout. in the last decade. would you have supported it? mr. johnson: free trade. that is about letting the market rule. i would not have bailed out the auto industry. i would not have bailed out wall street. and i am not doing this in a vacuum. jeff meyer is my economic advisor. no one on that staff believed that there would have been a catastrophic, financial failure would we do not have bailed out wall street. they made horrible choices. they should have been rewarded

by making those horrible choices by going bankrupt. we do have a mechanism for reef -- restructuring and it is bankruptcy. i do not think that michigan, the auto industry would have died at all but the government interjecting itself in business does in fact pick winners and losers. mr. shabazz: let us change topics. to the issue of immigration. what is your position? do you support passive citizenship? do you round up 11 million people? do you build a wall? and as governor of a border state, you have a unique perspective. mr. johnson: we should embrace immigration. we are a country of immigrants. immigrants is a good thing. a wharton school of business study in -- three weeks ago, that is donald trump's alma mater, it came out with an analysis restricting immigration

and it would have a negative impact on our economy allowing for more high skilled workers, immigrants, to come into our country would having minimal positive impact on this country. increasing immigration, there a positive impact on the economy. 11 million undocumented workers. the deportation of 11 million undocumented workers is grounded in untruth, and in this information. these are hard-working people who have come across the border and they have done so undocumented because the u.s. has made it impossible for them to get a work visa. we should make it as easy as possible for anyone that wants to come into this country and work to get a work visa. that should entail a background check and a social security card so applicable taxes get paid.

building a fence across the border is just crazy. they are taking jobs that u.s. citizens do not want. they are the cream of the crop when it comes to workers. if you talk about the deportation of 11 million undocumented workers in new mexico where 50% of the population is hispanic. i tell you what, that will be going door to door, kicking people out of homes they have owned for decades. 20 years ago, the undocumented worker was not the issue it is today. 20 years ago, it was that you could not get a work visa, you came over, got a job, and had children. we would be deporting leading citizens in new mexico, deporting them back to mexico. it is just wrong. mr. shabazz: do we do citizenship, or permanent residency?

mr. johnson: for the 11 million that are here, we should make it as easy as possible to get a work visa. comprehensive immigration reform needs to lay out a pathway to citizenship. no undocumented worker in this country currently should be able to jump the line when it comes to citizenship but we need to establish citizenship. we are a country of immigrants. if you look at our medicare, if you look at social security, if you look at our economy, if you look at housing, i think we are -- we greatly benefit by increasing immigration in this country. mr. shabazz: another issue, since we are in michigan, i was listening to this program coming in today. donald trump is scheduled to make a visit to flint, michigan. the mayor of michigan -- the mayor of detroit held a press

conference to draw attention to the environmental crisis. is that a situation that the government should be involved in? mr. johnson: it is a situation the government should be involved in. government has a fundamental responsibility to protect those -- from us those who would do us harm. when the whole flint thing broke, as governor of new mexico, i had a program that no one else had in the country and i did it for a years. it was called open door after four where anyone in new mexico could come and see me on the third thursday of the month starting at 4:00 in the afternoon until 10:00 on five minute increments. flint, michigan, would have come to me at open door after 4:00 if other avenues had failed.

and i guarantee you that had i not done something at the first meeting, the second meeting, everyone from flint would have been in that meeting and i would have been in the middle of that. i do not want to point fingers, i do not know what has happened in michigan other than this really is a catastrophic failure of government and the inability to communicate and the communication was not open. as president, i am going to actually have an open door after four policy as president. obviously, there are some logistics to go along with that but i think it is a way to stay connected and it was one of the most valuable things that i did. mr. shabazz: where do you find that medium between overregulation versus legitimate health and safety concerns? mr. johnson: and that is what i love about the job. that line --what is overt

regulation? and where is common sense in this? i come back to open door after 4:00. the state closed and underpass in northern new mexico saying big trucks but not fit under the underpass. causing trucks to have a six hour detour every time they took that route. a trucker comes in and says -- hey, they closed this. and i said, they closed it because your truck will not fit under this. i go under that bridge. there is nothing wrong with that bridge. and i said -- i will get that bridge opened up tomorrow. i called the secretary of that department and he laughed at me. and i said -- they do fit under that bridge. and we opened it up.

my point is that government does go awry and there should be mechanisms to differentiate between what is good and what is not so good. and what is capricious behavior on the part is oftentimes singular bureaucrats within the system. but it should be that vigilant. good government was easy. mr. shabazz: let us talk national security and foreign policy. on sunday, we marked the 15th anniversary of 9/11. since then, we have been involved in conflicts in afghanistan and iraq. mr. johnson: after 9/11, i supported going into afghanistan. we were attacked. we attacked back. al qaeda. but after being in afghanistan for seven months, we wiped out al qaeda. we did not get osama bin laden

but we should have gotten out of afghanistan after seven months and left our options open for coming back in to get osama bin laden. i believe we should get out of afghanistan tomorrow and for all of the horrible consequences, which i believe can be completely mitigated. but for all of the harmful consequences that will exist tomorrow for getting out tomorrow, is anyone here kidding themselves that the same circumstances will not exist 20 years from now if that is when we finally decide to get out or for some, forever? when it came to iraq, that was regime change. that was supporting regime change. at that time, i said, look, let us not do this. we have the military surveillance capability to see what someone is having for lunch if that is what we want to train our satellites on. we will be able to see them roll

out any weapons of mass destruction, and if they do that, we can have all sorts of options at that time. i do believe going into iraq has resulted in the syrian civil war, raqa, isis, and it was saddam's henchmen that fled to the raqa area. there are, we are supporting the kurds against isis but the kurds are sideways with turkey who is our ally but not such a good allied inns we invaded iraq. it just goes on and on. you cannot make this up. when we invaded syria, iraq -- looking as syria, we supported the free syrian army against

president assad. and this happened in aleppo for those of you that followed my story. [laughter] mr. shabazz: which i was just about to ask you about. [laughter] mr. johnson: we supported the free syrian army against the president assad administration but they are allied with the islamists. and we are not in support of the islamists. and they are fighting against president assad. bush paid the islamists to fight assad. arms and up in the islamists hands. mr. shabazz: aleppo. you got a little bit of flak about aleppo doing an interview. 90% of the public has probably got no idea where aleppo is on the map but 90% of the public are not running for president. did that hurt your campaign? mr. johnson: was i expecting and

aleppo day on this campaign? i was expecting it with 100% certainty. i am expecting at least one more aleppo day. and however many more of those days there are, it is what it is. 90% of americans are not running for president. i am. i should have known that. and there is no excuse for having spaced on aleppo somehow thinking it was an acronym. but such is life. but also, it is indicative of all of our lives. all of our lives encompass mistakes and it is really how we deal with mistakes that ultimately determine success. every single day, each and every one of us, are confronted with adversity. we can crawl up into a ball. declare ourselves a victim and give up or put a smile on your face, and keep on.

i am a smile on your face, keep on going. mr. shabazz: the culture. we have always had a bit of a brash society, when it comes to american discourse, somehow it seems even more rockets. there is a school of thought that attributes this to social media. there are so many news choices that individuals go immediately to the news choice that justifies their worldview. as a presidential candidate, what can you do or should you do anything to break down those silos so we can have more civil, intelligent discourse? mr. johnson: this is a sales pitch. let me offer three scenarios for the upcoming election. and the third scenario, myself and bill weld, we are the only

third-party candidates in all 50 states. that is it. we are it. if you elect donald trump or clinton, is the only are they in congress going to get any better? does anybody believe they are going to get along when all they want to do right now is kill each other? no way. him no one believes that. third scenario, bill weld, gary johnson, former governors, right down the middle. fiscally conservative. socially inclusive. skeptical when it comes to military intervention. free traders. right down the middle. hiring democrats, republicans, libertarians. everyone would be libertarian leaning. standing back and calling both sides to come to the table and deal with the issues of the day. being able to decide with old sides on individual issues.

really able to come together in a big way. the third scenario is the only one that has possibilities. mr. shabazz: both hillary clinton and donald trump have high disapproval ratings. mrs clinton is in the mid-50's. mr. trump, mid-60's on unfavorably. with that said, why is gary johnson having trouble cracking 15%? mr. johnson: my name has never appeared on the top line of any poll. if mickey mouse were on the top line of a national poll right now, mickey would be at 30 does mickey is a known commodity. but mickey is not on the ballot in all 50 states. 70% of america does not even

know that i exist. and unique today, 50% of americans that are going to register to vote, are registering as independents. where is that representation? currently, it is bill weld and myself. it is the libertarian party. right and the middle on all of this. mr. shabazz: what you say to this individual in the audience right now who is listening to this conversation, that says, i really like this year he johnson guy. he makes a lot of sense. but you know, third-party -- i don't know. i feel like the guy cannot win and i am wasting a vote. what you tell that person? mr. johnson: that is key to all of this. the notion that you might be able to win. to win, and we still believe that we will run the table on this but to win, we have to be

in the presidential debate. expected to garner more viewership than the super bowl. cannot win unless you are in the presidential debate. you cannot be in the presidential debate unless you are at 50% and you cannot be at 15% unless you are on the top line of the polls. 100% of the media start off by reporting the top line. 70% of america do not know that we are in the race. what i say to those that would say -- that is a wasted vote. a wasted vote is voting for someone you do not believe in. nothing will change if you keep voting one of the two major parties in office again. they have become so polarizing -- they have done this to themselves. mr. shabazz: marijuana. what do you think? mr. johnson: well, in 1999, i

was the highest elected official in the u.s. to call for the legalization of marijuana. mr. shabazz: highest as in --? [laughter] i just want to make sure -- [applause] [laughter] i have been waiting for three days to use that line. [laughter] you were saying -- mr. johnson: tens of millions of americans in this country are felons that but for our drug laws would otherwise be taxpaying, law-abiding citizens. we had the highest incarceration rate of any country in the world and i refuse to believe that we are less law-abiding in this country than other countries in the world and that has its roots in the drug war. i do believe that we are going

to legalize marijuana and when we do that, this country will take a quantum leap of understanding when it comes to other drugs and recognize that the drug issue is a health problem as opposed to a criminal justice problem. and let me say, indulging in any sort of marijuana, alcohol, any substance whatsoever, becoming impaired, getting behind the wheel of a car, that will always be a legal and government has to play a role in that. when it comes to the legalization of marijuana, that will be a state issue. not a federal government issue. just like alcohol. there are still dry counties in this country. i would reclassify marijuana as a class one.

de-scheduleule -- marijuana as a class one. to allow for the research. for example, impairment needs to be established. it currently does not exist. the banking issues that exist in half of the states that have legal, medicinal marijuana, four states have it recreationally, would resolve those banking issues. mr. shabazz: coming down to the last five minutes of the conversation up her with governor johnson. if you have questions you would like to ask, feel free to start texting those right away. we have questions about the health concerns of our elected officials of late. mrs. clinton with her pneumonia. and donald trump was supposed to come onto dr. oz to discuss his health. that has changed. with everyone running for president over 60, how are you feeling?

mr. johnson: if i am not elected president of the u.s., i will be skiing 120 days this upcoming season because i have built my dream home in taos. next june, i am planning to ride the divide with a 3000 mile like -- bike race. that is my plan and june. i will have a physical tomorrow because of this issue. and may be it is not such a high bar, and i hate to embellish, so i do not want this to be an embellishment, but i will be the fittest president of the united states ever. [laughter]

[applause] mr. shabazz: we are almost done with our conversation before questions from the audience. when you look around at america today, what would you say is our greatest challenge and also our greatest opportunity? mr. johnson: i don't think life in this country has ever been better. we get along with one another better than ever. in a our kids are smarter than ever. we have issues, let me point out you now one of those issues. let me say this -- all lives matter. but black lives matter and here but black lives matter and here is why. rateter your they are being shot six ts more often than whites.

if you are arrested for a crime and you are of color, it is four times more likely that you will end up behind bars. and if you are white, you're not taken out of your car and roughed up to where -- if i were subject to the same kind of treatment, i would probably have the cuffs on me also. but i am not subject to that treatment. discrimination does exist and we have our heads in the sand. i have had my head in the sand on this issue. but we will come to grips with this. faster, more accurately. we will put things in place. as president, i will be in control of the department of justice, having appointed the

head, and best practices in communities, worst practices in communities. so that we can overcome the problems we are facing. but this is america today. this is a wonderful place. we all know that. we all know that. mr. shabazz: ladies and gentlemen, gary johnson, libertarian candidate of the united states. [applause] >> ok, thank you. we have more than a few questions from the audience. i am going to start with -- we had several different questions on taxes. we had a student asked -- what are your views on the simplification of our tax policy? we have several people that want to know how you lower the budget and provide more services? had we keep it a robust -- how do we keep a robust military?

mr. johnson: with certainty, taxes will not go up under a johnson presidency. i will say the same thing about bill weld. neath aer of us raised taxes one penny. he cut taxes 21 times. i cut taxes 14 times. bill weld furloughed state employees the first day in office. he was a republican that served in a state that is 4-1 democrat. certainty that government will get smaller. taxes simplified. taxes lowered. in that kind of environment, i think that creates confidence. i think the economy grows with that. reducing spending, which we have not talked about is so important in this equation.

look, bill weld and i are pledging to submit a balanced budget to congress, a template for how you balance the budget in 100 days. what is the significance of a balanced legit? -- balanced budget? it is for the kids i spoke with this morning. my generation will get health care and retirement -- and they have to pay for this? no. and you do nothing about the entitlements of social security, medicaid -- reforms are needed to reduce or make them actual warily sound. military. our pledge is invincible national defense. that does not mean that the defense department is not 20% overblown. the pentagon itself in the mid-1990's, requisitioned the

black commission. many of you probably remember that. that commission said 25% more u.s. bases could be closed but there was not the political will to ever accomplish that. my pledge to you is that i will bring that political will to make that happen. this job is about doing what is right and what needs to be done in this country and that is why i am seeking it. from a personal standpoint, there was nothing more intellectually stimulating as governor of new mexico then being at the heart of all of these issues and looking at all of them from the standpoint of will it make it better? we are heading to a fiscal cliff. we are heading towards insolvency. bankruptcy. whatever you want to call it. what will the effect of printing money to cover it have?

it will have whiplash inflation on all of us. >> thank you. one of the questions that was most popular is all about the affordable care act, obamacare. if elected to office, what would be your approach? mr. johnson: that is another one of those affordable care act's. i do agree with chief justice roberts that the affordable health care act is a tax. my health insurance premiums have quadrupled. i have not been to see a doctor for a three years. that will change tomorrow. but count -- with certainty, we will sign legislation that makes health care more affordable. we will sign onto legislation that makes it better. what are the components that would make it more affordable and better? it would be opening up health

care to the free market. by the way, health care is as far removed from the free market as it possibly can be currently. if you add a free market economy when it came to health care, none of us would have health insurance to cover ourselves for ongoing medical needs. we would have insurance to cover ourselves for catastrophic injury and illness and we would pay as you go in a system that i would guess would cost 1/5 what it currently costs. we would have gallbladders are us. we would have x-rays are as. we would have advertised pricing with advertised outcomes. we go to the doctor today and we have no idea how much it will cost. the person at the desk has no idea how much it would cost. when you get the bill, you know no one is actually paying that. that is what we have today. if we could have a genuine free-market approaches to health

care, we would also address health from the start as opposed to the result of poor health care. so diet, exercise, lifestyle would be such a huge component on the front end. it should be market driven. it should be free market driven. >> ok, this is another one that a lot of people have on their minds. goldman sachs recently announced its top employees are banned from contributing to certain campaigns. what would you do as president to stop corporations from influencing elections and further can -- and further contributing to the erosion of our civil liberty? mr. johnson: the reform that is needed when it comes to campaign finance. or should be unlimited campaign contribution but there should be

100% transparency. something that does not exist today. contrary to popular belief, limiting campaign contribution is an incumbency protection act. the number one factor is name familiarity. and if you have held an office, you have an upper hand over anyone that is trying to gain the same office. the super pacs today, zero transparency with the zero packs. make it unlimited campaign contribution but make it 100% transparent. i would sign legislation where candidates would have to wear nascar jackets and have logos on the nascar jackets commensurate with the size of the contribution from general motors, intel, coca-cola, microsoft, google, whatever. [laughter]

>> ok. that was serious also but in light of -- this is a student question. in light of the recent shootings in orlando and san bernardino, what would you do to stop domestic mass shooting? mr. johnson: first of all, what do you do to stop domestic shootings? i support the second amendment. that said. we should be open to discussion on how to give -- how to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill or would-be terrorists? as president, i would love to know what transpired between the fbi and the shooter in orlando.

the system fell through the cracks. i bet the fbi has some really good ideas about moving forward. bill weld has said we should instigate a task force, to take these calls in and start to develop -- i don't want to call it a program, but a strategy for how to deal with the would-be terrorists which i think makes a lot of sense. >> absolutely. now, we will switch to education. i will combine two questions. in your opinion, what are some keys to restoring educational excellence in the u.s. and on top of that, and this is a student question, your can -- your campaign wants to reform education, would school vouchers be a part of that? mr. johnson: as governor of new mexico, i was the most outspoken governor regarding school choice. i made a plot -- a pledge as governor that i would increase educational funding as a

percentage of the budget for each year i was in office and i did that. what i did every year was to put more money in education which gave me the freedom to say what i said in new mexico which is that we need to bring competition to public education. for six straight years in new mexico, i proposed a full-blown voucher system that would in fact have brought competition to public education. i do believe that education should be a state issue period. i do believe that if we had 50 laboratory of innovation, we would have fabulous success that would be emulated by other states.

as president, as what should the federal role be in education -- i propose abolishing the federal department of education. it is strictly dollars and cents. michigan gives washington $-- 13 cents and michigan gets back 11 cents. how do you like that transaction? and then, washington says, to get your 11 cents you have toot a, b, c and d, and it costs michigan another four cents, it costs michigan 15 cents to get the 11 cents. why not leave the money in michigan's hands and allow michigan to compete with other states. i will predict that best practice will be bringing competition to public education. why are we still doing bricks and mortar? the model for the future is the khan academy.

kindergarten through a doctoral degree. in any subject and the free. many people think the department of education was established under george washington. it was established under jimmy carter. i have to tell you -- has there been anything added since it has been in existence? i don't think so. [applause] >> ok, thank you very much. we have two quick questions left. what impact will millennials have on this presidential election and what is your plan to attract millennials? mr. johnson: in the polling they have done, i have leading in millennials, 18-24. and there are probably some cringing in terms of defining millennial. 18 to 34. the things i am saying not only attract millennials that the --

millennials, but i think the things i'm saying encompass what 60% of americans believe. that is my opinion. and i think that if i were allowed on the debate stage, i think my name familiarity would go from 30% to 100% and i think that would bode well for actually becoming the next president of the united states. but with regard to millennials, we are leading in that 18-24 age group. i would also like to point out and if i mentioned it earlier, it is a result of doing this all the time and i do enjoy being here. but there have been two polls done on active military personnel. and who they favor to be president. in both of those polls, i and the overwhelming choice to be the next commander in chief. [applause]

>> ok, so, last question. you and governor weld are frequently photographed playing chess while on the campaign trail. who would you say is the superior player? mr. johnson: so -- -- >> i left you speechless. mr. johnson: when we got together, i reread his wikipedia page. and bill plays three guys blindfolded simultaneously. and when we got together, i said that i am looking forward to playing chess. and he was excited. i don't want to say i am good but i really enjoy playing the game. he's said this in front of national media. bill weld is the smartest guy in the room. he is. anyway, we played game number one finely. and i beat him. [laughter]

and then we played game number two, and he said -- you know, i underestimated you. and i will not let that happen on game two. and bill weld is a classy guy. he is saying this in front of national media. game two, i beat him again. so game three is looking grim. >> i thought you were going to say one and done. thank you so much for traveling to our fair city and being with us. and mr. shabazz you did such a great job moderating. thank you governor johnson. we really appreciate it. [applause] and ladies and gentlemen, thank you to you all. and with that, this meeting is adjourned. thank you. [captioning performed by the

national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] them of the c-span radio and makes it easy to continue to follow the 2016 election wherever you are. it is free to download from the apple store or google play. get audio coverage for up-to-the-minute schedule information from c-span radio or

c-span television, plus podcasts , bookr popular affairs and history programs. you always have c-span on the go. >> it is that time of year to announce our 2017 studentcam documentary competition. help spread the word to middle school and high school students and their teachers. theme, your message to washington dc, tell us what is the new urgent -- what is the most urgent issue for the new president and congress to address in 2017. with $100,000 awarded in cash prizes. students can work alone or in a three.p to include some c-span programming have an opposing opinion. cash prizes will be awarded between 150 students and 53

teachers. the grand prize will go to the student or teen with the best overall entry. this year's deadline is january 20, 2017. help us spread the word to student film makers. for more information go to our website. are gaston newsmakers is congressman added shift he represents the 28th district. he is a member of the so-called gang of eight, the most senior house and senate democrats and republicans to get the highest intelligence briefings. we were talking about what a complicated world we live in today. let me introduce the two reporters that will be asking questions. >> i want to start with the russian hacking story.