republic that can never be second-guessed, is the f.b.i. i find that fascinating, particularly coming from as many criminal defense attorneys as we have on the other side who made a dadgum living questioning the f.b.i. i mean, that's what -- that's how they made their living is second-guessing the f.b.i. but no, once you take the oath of office for congress, whatever they do, you don't want to prosecute the f.b.i., we're fine with that. you dent want to do anything about the people who committed fraud in the housing crisis? we're fine with that. god forbid we ask the f.b.i. anything. all i want to know is did you give immunity to the person who destroyed federal records after a subpoena was in place. that's a fair question and i would think every member of congress would want to know the answer. r. chaffetz: mr. chaffetz: the gentleman's time has expired. the chair recognizes the

gentleman. >> thank you, mr. chairman. my friend from south carolina wanted to help clarify for the folks back at home what this was all about and i don't know if he did that but certainly the rise and tenor of his voice suggests outrage about something that has gone awry. mr. connolly: so let me take my crack at talking at my folks back home. what's gone awry is the trampling of your rights. election not going well. at the presidential level. maybe we can take a piece out of hillary clinton and pagliano might be the key to doing that or at least a key. and so we're going to send marshals, u.s. marshals to someone's office to degrade and humiliate, an overreach if there ever was, and we'll do it without consultation from half

of this committee which kind of tells you they're up to something they don't want quite us to know about. my friend from south carolina says there's a double standard. i certainly supported the critique of the prosecutors that they overreached with ted stevens. it was wrong. in my home state of virginia, i don't applaud the acts of some of our republican governor but i agreed with the supreme court ruling that it was prosecutorial overreach and there was way too much ambiguity on the stand of what constituted as a quid proquo. i was sensitive to their -- quid pro quo. i was sent tiff to their rights and many of my colleagues shared a concern but we also share a concern about a broader principle here than a short-term political cheap shot in the hopes that might work

and the fifth amendment rights of a u.s. citizen be damned. that's not right. are fter all of the things over in this election cycle, the sad legacy of the expediency of dispensing with a constitutional right of every american to protect himself or , rself against legal jeopardy to have a process that protects them from testifying if they choose not to whether we like sadly t and this isn't the first time we've trampled on those rights. we self-declared somebody, in fact, had voluntarily given up her fifth amendment rights even though she protested that was in the true, even though her attorneys insisted it's not

true and even though there's plenty of case law during the mccarthy era, ironically, that clearly suggests that's not the standard. but that didn't stop us. so today we'll vote on a party line vote and we're going to further sully and degrade the reputation of congress and of this committee and it ought to make every american tremble just a little bit because if we can do this to mr. pagliano, we can do it to you. and oh, by the way while we're at it, what other rights in the constitution -- because we know not the second amendment, because that's sacred. that's not conditional in any way, shape or form. but the first amendment not so much. this amendment apparently not at all. and we'll get to the rest if it's convenient, if the expedient, if it politically serves our interest. when i took an oath for this

job, it wasn't to insist that mr. pagliano compromise his rights at that table and be humiliated. it was to protect the constitutional rights of every american to the best of my ability. and we're about to compromise those rights in this vote and that's wrong and that's a legacy none of us should be proud of. i yield back. mr. chaffetz: i thank the gentleman. oes any other member wish to speak? mrs. maloney. but we'll come to mrs. maloney -- i think we have to go to ms. plaskett for five minutes. ms. plaskett: thank you, mr. chairman. my colleague from south carolina knows that not everybody on this side of the aisle was a criminal defense attorney. some of us were actually prosecutors and could never see them self as a criminal defense attorney. so i take going within the scope of the law extremely

seriously and i'm very concerned about this being an unethical act on the part of this committee. now, my colleagues questioned this is not about politics and this is not partisan. so i'm wondering what it is about and i think it's an abuse of power and a waste of time. and it's a waste of this committee's time and it's destroying this committee. it's destroying the reputation of this committee because it's very clear what mr. pagliano would do if he came here. i guess many of my colleagues believe they can break the man and take away him asserting his fifth right when his attorneys have told us in writing that should he be brought here he will assert his fifth amendment right to every question. so what's the point. what's the point of bringing him here and having him in contempt in front of the camera

except for the camera because it's something we can do in closed doors under deposition and it would be on the record. his attorneys have been very clear in writing he would continue to assert his right to all questions and they offered to bring him to personally assert his rights in a closed session. but that's not good enough for this committee. that doesn't serve the purpose of what this committee was once. i thought my colleagues were interested in coming to the truth and to finding out information that we hadn't already found out, that that's the purpose of the oversight and government reform committee, but it seems really that the name of this committee possibly should be changed to the abows committee. the abuse of power committee. the committee that likes to make sound bites. the committee that likes to be n cnn and msnbc and have political fodder for whatever

it is they need it for. that's a problem. and it's also a problem because we're not protecting the attorneys that are on this committee because it's very clear, under legal ethics rules set forth by the american bar association as well as the district of columbia bar that if we move forward on this you're exposing the attorneys who practice or have decided that they want to keep their bar standing or the staff attorney. i'd like to ask the chair, are we going to protect the attorneys that are here if contempt should be brought against them in a place where they can actually have criminal charges, that being a court of law? is our attempt to be in front of a camera so important that the staff that works for us should be put out on a limb for us to be able to meet our means, our expediency before november 8, or as i understand from some of the assertions that have been made, maybe even after january 20 if it doesn't

go the way that they want it to go? so i pose that question to this committee as to how far we're willing to go. are we going to expose the attorneys that are here in practicing in trying to uphold the law because we want to skirt the edges a little bit for the political expediency that we need to move forward in this? and i yield back the balance of my time. yes. mr. cummings: let me say this. first of all, i want to thank you for raising the issue with regard to the ethical rules of the bar. i said a little bit earlier that i've been a member of the maryland bar since 1976, and i worked hard to get that license. as a matter of fact, even though i'm not practicing now, i still pay my bar deuce because i don't want anything -- dues because i don't want anything to happen to that license. i worked hard to that license and i've sworn to uphold the ethical rules of my profession just as i know you have, not

just a letter of the law but the spirit of the law. and maryland, like d.c., has a legal ethical rule that says and i quote, and this is the maryland rule, an attorney shall not use means that have no substantial purpose other than to embarrass, delay or burden a third person, end of quote. and so i just do not see how the actions of this committee regarding mr. pagliano do anything other than that and that's why i'm voting against this and i thank the gentlelady for yielding and bringing up the point. mr. chaffetz: i thank the gentlelady. the gentleman's time has expired. the gentleman from texas, mr. farenthold, is recognized. mr. farenthold: thank you very much. and i'll be brief, mr. chairman. i'm not concerned about voting for this. i'm a licensed attorney, and i'm confident that any legislative action i take will be protected under the speech and debate clause of the united states constitution that says i shall not be questioned in any other forum for any activity i

take as a legislator. i yield back. mr. chaffetz: the gentleman yields back. does any other member wish to speak? the gentlewoman from new york, mrs. maloney. mrs. maloney: thank you, mr. chairman. and mr. chairman, you have repeatedly claimed on television and other places that this is and to quote your words, one of the biggest security breaches in the history of the state department, end quote. now, this claim is completely false, outlandish and frankly really unsubstantiated in any way, shape or form. the f.b.i. director has been on record and has said already and concluded, and i am quoting from the f.b.i. director, we did not find evidence confirming that clinton's email

server system were compromised by sign -- cyber means, end quote. now, the f.b.i. is an independent agency, apolitical, nonpartisan whose purpose is to find the truth, protect the american people and protect our system of government. and they found that this was totally unfounded and outlandish and untrue. so what are we doing? the only person that is being rt by this is hillary rodham clinton. the f.b.i. has already said there's no case there, there was no harm there, but in contrast, the official state department system was hacked in 2015 by a reported russian hacker and it apparently was a terrible cyber intrusion against a federal agency and

against our country. so i'd like to put this in perspective about what we're really talking about and some members of this committee may not remember that in the 1990's this is exactly what the republican leadership did under former chairman dan burton who was chairman of this committee. ey falsely accused undisputedly, historically, they falsely accused the clinton white house of intentionally destroying emails to hide them. and they launched hearings, massive investigations and their claims turned out to be completely false. completely unsubstantiated. just like these claims that they're putting forward now are unsubstantiated. and then back then, just like today, they wildly exaggerated

their claims. and i want to read from the actual report that this committee put out under former republican chairman, dan burton, in october of 2000. and where they actually claimed that the fake scandal was bigger than watergate. and may i quote from their report? the email matter can fairly be called the most significant obstruction of congressional investigation in united states history. while the white house's obstruction in watergate related only to the watergate break-in, the potential obstruction of justice by the clinton white house reaches much further. well, this was preposterous, and i read last night a report, and i ask unanimous consent to place it in the record by the democratic minority at that

time called "unsubstantiated allegations of wrongdoing involving the clinton administration." so i feel -- may we put this in the record? mr. chaffetz: without objection, so ordered. mrs. maloney: thank you. and i urge everyone to read it. and what we have today is another deja vu, a repeat of the same false allegations. and i would venture to say they are political, totally politically motivated. our independent f.b.i. said there isn't a problem here. they are trying to create one with false allegations. and here we are again and the same republican hysteria is now being thrown at another clinton, the same unsubstantiated allegations. the same completely exaggerated

lse claims, and i urge the listening public to read the report of the f.b.i. on the current emails and to read the report on the prior hysterical hearings that proved to have no basis to truth and reality. my time has expired. mr. chaffetz: the gentlewoman's time has expired. i'd like everybody to read the f.b.i. report. unfortunately, it has not been released in its totality. we'll now recognize the gentleman from north carolina, mr. meadows. mr. meadows: mr. chairman, i appreciate your recognition. the d just like to ask gentlewoman from new york to remind her of the rules -- mr. chaffetz: members are advised to not address other members. they can address the chair but they cannot address others. mr. meadows: mr. speaker, i'd like to make a point of order. the debate here is getting to

bring in personalities. we have rules in this committee where attacking members, either their motives or anything else, is not to be done and so i would kindly ask the chair to remind members that if they're going to make personal attacks that they need to keep those in a generic and nonspecific form. i yield back. mr. chaffetz: before the gentleman yields back -- mrs. maloney: point of personal privilege since my name was mentioned. mr. chairman, can i clarify? i was talking about claims, not a member. mr. chaffetz: i said no. no. ok. what the gentleman -- the gentleman has yielded to me. members are advised -- and i'll read from what the parliamentarian gave me. members must advise they must observe the house's conduct. they may not use disorderly words or unparliamentary language such as words impugning the motives of other colleagues.

end quote. you can be ere is disgusted by it, you can be frustrated by it. there is a seminole question. i don't think it's a partisan question when there is a duly issued subpoena, that person must appear. it is not an optional exercise. it's not, hey, i want to dial it in by sending a letter from my attorney. that, no matter which side of the aisle you're on, if you believe in the rule of law, if you believe in the morality of our constitution that requires , ople to obey that law, now nonattendance is not an option, and i feel very strongly about that. mr. cummings talked about in his statement about secret this and secret that. i believe it should be as open and transparent. i don't think it should be done

behind closed doors. i do think it should be open and transparent. that's the way in large part the judicial branch operates, and i think it's the way this committee should operate to the maximum extent possible. i'd like it to be as open and transparent as possible. i think we issued a -- we duly -- we issued a subpoena in the right way and it is not an optional exercise and that is the question today. twice -- i was very generous. twice, twice we gave him an opportunity to show up. and i wish we weren't here today. we shouldn't have to be here today. but that was the choice that was made and we're left but no choice to hold him in contempt. he violated the subpoena. so i yield back to the gentleman from north carolina. mr. cummings: if the gentleman will yield? mr. 34ed oast: -- mr. meadows: certainly.

mr. cummings: mississippi maloney, her name came up, and i think she was trying to take a minute to explain what she was trying to do. i would ask she be allowed to do that. mr. meadows: reclaiming my time. mr. chaffetz: he was not supposed to. mr. meadows: well, reclaiming my time. i didn't mention anybody's name. i mentioned the gentlewoman from new york, and specifically as it relates -- the ranking member will know full well this is something that is very personal to me because i came to his defense when someone on my side attacked him. and so it is important that we have debate. it is important that we do that without personalities involved, and we must rise to the occasion to have differences without making personal attacks. and i yield back the balance of my time. mr. chaffetz: the gentleman yields back the balance of his time. mrs. maloney: point of personal privilege. mr. chaffetz: no. i want to give members each an opportunity if they have -- if they'd like to speak on the a.n.s.

does any member wish to speak on the a.n.s.? sorry. mr. desantis is now recognized for five minutes. mr. desantis: mr. chairman, when i hear some of these sat s, i sat and read -- i and heard director comby. he did say the f.b.i. did not find evidence that secretary clinton's email system was hacked by foreign agents. the implication that was made by the gentlelady from new york was in fact that did not happen. that's not what comey said. what he said was, we do not have been able to determine if they had done it because they're sophisticated. if you look at somebody like former director -- deputy director of the c.i.a., mike more ell, who is supporting secretary clinton for president, he basically said any good intelligence service would have anything on any classified system but particularly something like secretary clinton's emails. so i think the issue this subpoena is driving at is you

had a lot of classified information on unclassified server. you have people like pagliano who was involved in that and we have a fact pattern in which those emails were deleted not only after being revealed publicly, not only after being subpoenaed by congress but after combetta had a conversation with people secretary with clinton and of course now these reddit trass scripts have been found by people online that strongly suggests that someone with a similar secretary clinton and profile to combetta, hey, i want to strip a v.i.p.'s email. once it became public it was deleted. there are a lot of questions about how the i.t. side of this investigation was handled. whether the f.b.i. pursued a case involving potential obstruction of documents and people like pagliano and combetta is essential to that. i think it's an appropriate use

of oversight authority because i think people who know who've been involved in the federal system, a lot of times the f.b.i. can't get you on a substantive offense they go after the process crimes, lying to them, obstructing justice, destroying evidence. and there didn't seem to be from the reports we read that concerted of an effort to do that in this case. so i'm supportive of what the chairman is doing and i yield back. mr. chaffetz: i thank the gentleman. does any other member wish to speak on the a.n.s.? are there any -- recognize the gentleman from alabama, mr. palmer. mr. palmer: thank you, mr. chairman. i have been reluctant to speak on this. i feel compelled to because i think this is bigger than the email issue. it's bigger than the politics that our colleagues keep bringing up. it's about the rule of law. it's about constitutional separation of powers. i'm not the only one that feels

that way. nathan turley who is recognized as a preeminent law professionor warns that the constitution is in danger. it's essential that we as a committee exercise the responsibility invested in us by the constitution to protect the nation from abuse of power. abuse of power by the executive branch, abuse of power by the justice department. and clearly it's against the law to destroy evidence. evidence was destroyed. it's clearly against the law to alter documents and documents were altered. it's clearly against the law for people who are not authorized to handle classified information to be given classified information. and it's our responsibility to protect the constitution and protect the nation against people who violate the law. it shouldn't matter what had party's in power. it shouldn't matter who did it. that's our responsibility. it shouldn't matter where we are in an election cycle. that's our responsibility. when you have law professionors

such as large tribe and particularly jonathan turley who testified in a senate judiciary hearing that we're watching a fundamental change in our constitutional system and it's changing in the way that the framers warned us to avoid. so i think this is bigger than the politics. it's bigger than the issue. it's about preserving the separation of powers and this committee upholding its constitutional oath of office to do its duty. i yield back. mr. chaffetz: i thank the gentleman. are there any amendments to the amendment in the nature of a substitute? any other member wish to speak? the question is now on the amendment in the nature of a substitute. those in favor signify by saying aye. those opposed, no. in the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it and the mendment is agreed to.

the question is now on adoption and favorably reporting the contempt amendment, as amended, and transmitting the report as adopted for filing as a prirched report to the house of representatives. -- privileged report to the house of representatives. all those in favor say aye. those opposed, no. in the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it. the -- roll call has been requested. the clerk will call the roll. >> mr. chaffetz. mr. chaffetz: aye. >> mr. chaffetz votes aye. mr. mica. mr. mica: aye. >> mr. mica votes aye. mr. turner. mr. duncan. mr. duncan votes aye. mr. jordan. mr. jordan votes yes. mr. walberg. mr. amash. mr. amash votes yes. mr. gosar.

mr. desjarlais. mr. desjarlais votes yes. mr. gowdy. mr. gowdy votes yes. mr. farenthold. mr. farenthold: yes. mr. farenthold votes yes. mrs. lummis. mr. massie. mr. massie: yes. >> mr. messie votes yes. mr. -- mr. massie votes yes. mr. meadows votes yes. mr. mulvaney. mr. buck. mr. walker. mr. walker votes yes. mr. blum. r. blum votes yes. mr. hice. mr. hice votes yes. mr. russell. mr. carter. mr. grothman. mr. grothman votes yes. mr. hurd. mr. hurd votes yes. mr. palmer.

mr. palmer votes yes. mr. cummings. mr. cummings votes no. mrs. maloney. mrs. maloney votes no. ms. norton. mr. clay. mr. clay votes no. mr. lynch. mr. lynch votes no. mr. cooper. mr. connolly. mr. connolly: never, no how, no way, no. >> mr. connolly votes no. ms. duckworth. ms. duckworth votes no. ms. kelly. ms. kelly votes no. mrs. lawrence. rs. lawrence votes no. mr. lieu. mrs. watson coleman. mrs. watson coleman votes no. ms. plaskett. ms. plaskett votes no.

mr. desaler in. mr. desauliner votes no. mr. welch. mr. welch votes no. ms. lujan english ham. lujan english ham. mr. chaffetz: how has the member of the district of columbia recorded? >> ms. norton has not voted. ms. norton votes no. mr. chaffetz: has all members -- oh. >> mrs. lummis is not recorded. mrs. lummis votes yes. mr. chaffetz: have all members ad had an opportunity to vote?

how is the member from michigan, mr. walberg, recorded? mr. walberg: aye. >> mr. walberg is not recorded. he votes yes. chaff the clerk will report this tally. >> there are 19 nays and 15 -- yeas and the 15 nays. mr. chaffetz: without objection, the motion to reconsider is laid on the table. pursuant to 2-l, members will submit their views on votes recorded today. i ask unanimous consent that the staff make necessary conforming changes to the

report, ordered reported today subject to the approval of the minority. hearing no objection, so ordered. there's no further business. without objection, the committee stands adjourned. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

>> first ladies michelle obama and laura bush discuss their wartime experiences raising daughters and for the need of awareness of mental health issues. bob woodruff, who was seriously injured in 2016 while covering the war in iraq -- 2006 while the ing the war in iraq is

host of the forum. you can see it tonight at 8:00 on c-span2. >> the submit sownian national african-american museum opens the doors to the public for the first time saturday and c-span will be live from the national mall starting at 10:00 a.m. eastern starting with the outdoor ceremony. speakers is president obama and lonnie bunch. watch the opening ceremony for the smithsonian national museum of african-american history and culture live at 10:00 a.m. on c-span. listen live on the c-span radio app. "book tv" on c-span2. 48 hours of nonfiction books and authors every weekend. on saturday at noon eastern, "book tv" will be live from the 16th annual library of congress national book festival held at the washington convention center in the nation's capital. a program includes author interviews and we're taking your calls live. notable authors for our call-in

segment include bob woodward and his book "the last of the president's men," congressman john lewis and his book "march, book 3." ken burns, author of "grover cleveland again." and interviews with featured authors, sarah val and her book "lafayette and the somewhat united states," candice miller, author of "hero of the empire." >> join us live this weekend from the 16th annual library of congress national book festival on c-span2's "book tv," and get the complete weekend schedule at booktv.org. republican congressman david jolly and democrat charlie

crist, candidates for florida's 13th district, debate zika funding, campaign finance, national security and entitlement programs. charlie crist was the republican governor from 2007 to 2011 and again two years ago as a democrat but he lost. and congressman jolly is finishing up his first term. 10 news, the "tampa bay times" re the host of the debate. >> good evening and welcome to the 10 news tampa bay times, st. petersburg college, 13th annual congressional debate. >> i'm adam smith. tonight we have a debate from two of the brightest stars from the most important political area of the country. congressman david jolly, republican, and former governor charlie crist, democrat. >> the debate rules are as follows. when a candidate is asked a question, he will have 60

seconds to answer. the opposing candidate will then have 30 seconds to respond. answers will be timed. at the end of each segment we'll have a lightning round where the candidates will answer a series of questions with a few words or one sentence. >> let's get right to it. charlie crist, you know we have a zika crisis in florida. particularly south florida. we have a case in piniella county. congress has been unwilling or inept to do anything so far. what would you do differently than david jolly to get some relief from washington? mr. crist: i want to thank you and the tampa bay times. i want to thank channel 10 as well as st. petersburg college. it's a very serious issue, sdoig. you know, when you look at what's happening across the state of florida right now, you're right. we have cases right here in pinellas county and we don't see action out of congress and that's very disturbing to the people of people. i'm sure it's disturbing to people who have already gotten zika. what we need to do is work

together in congress to get something passed to do what's right. last week my opponent took some moss keys oast on the -- mosquitoes in the floor of the house and then took a procedural vote not to support zika funding. i don't understand that. we have to do what's right for the people of the state. we have to get a vaccine. really, i believe, would be the true answer to cure this thing and move us forward. >> congressman jolly. mr. jolly: so i appreciate, charlie, you being honest. that it was a procedural vote, not a substantive vote. thank you for that description. listen, i have led the effort in recent months to try to build a consensus around frankly a plan that's developed down in the senate between senator rubio and nelson who laid politics aside. i think we should do that on zika and not take hits on each other on this. this is a public health crisis. the president proposed a plan. it is not our job to simply rubber stamp it and so congress took a few weeks, a few months to review the plan. frankly, i asked hard questions of c.d.c. and n.i.h.

why are we assuming a two-year crisis? justify the request. that's our article 1 responsibility. what that was met with my satisfaction, i started voting for the president's plan. i voted for the nelson-rubio plan. i voted for the house plan. i will vote for whatever it takes to get it done. yes, i will take mosquitoes to the house floor if that's what it takes if -- >> thank you for not bringing mosquitoes here. we appreciate that. [applause] >> congressman jolly, do you believe it's right for a woman who finds out she has zika in the early stages of pregnancy to abort? mr. jolly: i think that is her choice. for the health of the mother or the health of the baby or the life of the mother, i think there should be exceptions permitted to terminate the pregnancy, yes, i do. >> governor? mr. crist: i think it's a woman's choice to make across the board as it relates to her health decisions. my opponent doesn't feel the same way. and i respect that. he has that right. but he has advocated

overturning roe vs. wade. we're both lawyers. that's the case that says that a woman has the right to choose up until the third trimuster. i support that decision. my opponent does not. i think the voters of this district have a right to know where we stand on issues. mr. jolly: mr. crist, this is why we can't believe what you say. [applause] you were pro-choice and pro-life and then pro-choice. as rapp when you had a chance to serve the last time you were in office you told the a.p. in 2009 that you would support an abortion ban in the state of florida. it was only after you switched parties that you switched your position. this is not a matter of conviction for you. this is political convenience. mr. crist: may i respond? mr. jolly: no. i believe life begins at conception. that's a tenant of my faith and i believe we need to create a culture that supports the

unborn to the elderly and i will fight hard to do that. from pain capable abortions to partial birth abortions. this is a real matter. and so i appreciate you've had every position on this. that doesn't make you inclusive. that makes you an opportunityist. >> governor crist, you may respond. [applause] mr. crist: i am personally pro-life but i believe in a woman's right to choose. mr. jolly: you cannot believe in life and then allow it to be terminated? mr. crist: i did not interrupt you. joljl we are going to have a debate tonight, mr. crist. mr. crist: i am personally pro-life but i believe it's a woman's right to make a decision about her own life. you have a different point of aview. instead of attacking me, why don't you admit that and let the voters of pinellas know that you don't believe in a woman's right to choose? mr. jolly: i think i laid out my position. we want to bring in extra voices. we have a st. petersburg

college student who asked a question here and congressman jolly, you're going to answer this first. you'll have 60 seconds to answer this question. first up, psychology student michael jones. >> so many politicses seem to be molded with -- politicians seem to be molded with corruption, greed, what would you do differently to make the mold of the typical view of a politician? >> congressman jolly. mr. jolly: hey, i think that's a great question. listen, i laid it on the line with a bill i call the stop act. i think members of congress spend too much time raising money. i think candidates raise too much time raising money. you want to know why we haven't solved veterans health care to tax reform to a balanced budget, it's because congress is a first rate fundraising machine and not a legislative body anymore. and so i laid it on the line and i introduced legislation that's not novel. it applies to the state legislature in tallahassee and judicial candidates in this

state as well that says you can't raise money. i took that pledge personally nearly a year ago. [applause] >> governor crist, what would you do to break the mold of a typical politician? mr. crist: i think we need to do is speak the truth to the people we want to represent. make sure we're straightforward with you, that you understand what's important to us and we get that hopefully from listening to you. i've had the opportunity to go around this district a lot in the past year. in fact, i've been in this race a lot longer than my opponent, and i think it's important to listen to people, whether they're students, they're teachers, they're principals. we have serious issues here. the way to break the mold is listen to people, understand what their concerns are. not be beholden to special interests. unfortunately, my opponent gets a lot of his support -- i don't know how he raised it if he's not getting it. i guess he paid somebody $10,000 a month to raise money in washington, d.c. i don't call that breaking the mold. but he's gotten a lot of it from wall street and a lot of it from k street where he used

to be a lobbyist. that's not breaking the mold. that's being part of the problem. >> yes, you may respond. 30 seconds. mr. jolly: charlie, just because you've been a member of both parties doesn't make you bipartisan. [laughter] [applause] mr. jolly: you went and sat the lobby of the ritz carlton during the democratic national convention saying you scored four fundraisers. you called it the bank. you are a professional fundraiser. it's what you do well. i abandoned fundraising to legislate and do my job. governor crist: well, why didn't you vote for sdoig? [applause] >> let's try to ease off on the applause so we have as much time for questions. governor crist, this is drawn as a safe democratic district. at one point david jolly said it was unwinnable for a republican. you've been a republican for most of your life.

what do you say to the democrats that question your principles? governor crist: well, i don't think they need to question inside principles. i am joined by my father, a man three ed me and my sisters something they put into us, trustworthiness, being decent to people. those are values that i hold. political parties change from time to time. i remember ronald reagan was once a democrat and became republican. hillary clinton was once a republican and became a democrat. it's not a sin. if the values of the party at the time don't comport how you were raised by your family, i think you have a duty to yourself and to your god to do what you think is right and represent the principles and the values that you share. those of decency, doing onto others, doing what's right to the people you serve and that's why i'm a democrat today and i'm proud of it. [applause] >> congressman jolly. let me ask you, you are a

republican so this is a largely democratic district. what do you say to those voters? mr. jolly: i appreciate the articulation and values. i share those values with charlie. here's the difference between mr. crist and myself. mr. crist got in this race because the lines changed. i got in this race despite the fact that the lines changed. a year ago mr. crist tweeted out, i will not be a candidate in 2016. then the court changed the lines. mr. crist, you told "politico," because the lines changed you saw the opportunity. there's a difference between seeing the opportunity and being an opportunnist. i got into this race despite the fact that the lines changed because we are changing politics right now as a republican and a democratic district and i ask for the opportunity to keep doing that. governor crist: can i respond to that? i got in this race because before the lines changed i didn't live in the district. mr. jolly: you bought a house

on st. pete beach? governor crist: no. mr. jolly: why would you buy it? governor crist: my wife bought that house on the beach as an investment. we didn't buy it to be in a congressional district. mr. jolly: stand corrected. i am corrected on it. governor crist: you decided to run for the u.s. senate only after a asking all these people to be your member of congress. i ran for a lot of offices but i never left an office in a year after i got there. it's stunning to me. it's unbelievable. mr. jolly: you've never run for re-election, charlie. governor crist: this is my home. st. petersburg is where i grew up. this is where my father practiced medicine for 55 years. i'm running for this office because i love these people. i want to serve them and i want to make sure their values are reflected in washington, d.c., and we don't hear the kind of bickering that you're volunteering tonight so we have

somebody that's willing to work across the aisle. work with other people in washington so that the people here in pinellas county get their voice heard and things done instead of the nothing you've been able to do in washington in 223456 years. -- in 2 1/2 years. [applause] >> we are going to go to the round.ng do you need have a cuban consulate in st. pete? mr. jolly: i think it's a great opportunity for this city, yes. >> governor crist. governor crist: freudian slip. i think it's the right thing to do. no question about it. i think st. petersburg would be a great place to have a consulate. getting rid of the embargo on cuba is the right thing to do. we need to be more enlightened as we deal with our neighbor to the south and having a consulate here in st. pete would be magnificent. >> governor, should assault weapons be banned? governor crist: absolutely. listen -- [applause]

there's no question in my mind that this is an issue that has touched us here in florida very closely. we are about an hour and a half from orlando where the pulse massacre occurred. it strikes me two things ought to happen and ought to happen quickly. number one, we ought to have more stringent background checks on people who are able to purchase guns. and number two, we ought to ban assault weapons. there used to be a ban. >> i put the lightning back in the lightning round. >> thank you congressman, what are your two favorite restaurants in the district? mr. jolly: for breakfast, maggie mae's and any one of the bay star restaurants you'll find us there. >> all right. governor crist. governor crist: shore grill. always likes harvey's and the fourth street shrimp store. >> all right. governor crist. should medical marijuana should be legal? governor crist: i believe it should. again, i think this is a very

important issue. i supported it the last time i was coming up. i won't be too long but i had a sister who died of cancer, brain cancer. and for her and others who may suffer as a result and need something like that to take care of their pain, it's the right thing to do. >> congressman. mr. jolly: only if the f.d.a. approves it. we don't approve medicines on the ballot. i don't want my niece taking a cold medicine or marijuana because voters approved it and not doctors. this should be a matter for researchers, medical professionals and the f.d.a. >> what is one significant issue you differ with your party leadership on? mr. jolly: there's many. i am trying to force consensus on hard issues from climate to marriage equality to getting guns out of the hands of terrorist and campaign financing. i tried to change politics at great political risk and ity i demonstrated that i continue to put pinellas over washington politics. >> what's one thing you differ with party leadership on?

governor crist: the trans-pacific partnership. i don't think it will help americans as we work on trade agreements around the world and asia as it relates to this one. the other problem i have with it is how it treats corporations and lets them have more free rein as it relates to the environment. >> thank you. [applause] >> is there time for one more? >> yes. >> let's do one more. who should go first? governor -- yeah, governor crist. >> is this lightning? >> this is normal. you get 60 seconds. what is going to be your number one priority? what are you going to try to carve out for yourself in washington in terms of an issue and expertise? governor crist: i'm very concerned about social security, adam. i am concerned that today in social security we have a double tax, if you will. when you pay into social security you have to obviously pay on your income, your income taxes. but then later in life when you become eligible as a beneficiary, when you get those benefits, you also have to pay a tax. i call it a double tax.

i don't think it's fair and i don't think it's right. i also want to protect social security. unfortunately, my opponent has talked about raising the age of eligibility for people who would get social security later in their life. i don't think that's right. he's also talked about and a lobbyist saying that social security should be privatized. i think that would ruin social security. it's a promise to our people. it's working as it's in place and i had -- a lobbyist saying that social security should i'd every day. [applause] mr. jolly: so, telling it with a smile is not the truth. i have not advocated privatizing social security. governor crist: i thought you lobbied for it? well, you registered to lobby for it? mr. jolly: no, we will not. we will get to the fact of the matter. i'm glad you endorsed my legislation to end taxation on social security. governor crist: you're welcome. you're welcome. mawsplaws --

[applause] >> ok. we're going to be more with more from the congressional candidates after a short break. we want to thank our sponsors tonight. st. petersburg college, 10 news wtsp and of course "the tampa bay times." [applause] welcome back to the house district 13 congressional debate. live from the palladium theater. thank you for being with us. the candidates have a chance to ask each other a question and you will both have 60 seconds to respond to that question. governor crist, we're going to start with you. governor crist: thank you. i appreciate the opportunity for that, mark. but i feel like that when segments like this come into a debate, it's posed as an opportunity to take shots at each other. i am not going to do that and not do that tonight. in fact, i'd like to take a question from one of the students from st. pete college, and if i did have a question for you, david, it would be, i

would hope you would join me in doing this and bringing about more civil discussion about issues facing pinellas county. [applause] >> congressman. mr. jolly: so i have a question for you. [laughter] governor crist: one can only hope. mr. jolly: and it's a very hard topic. when you were in the florida senate, you coined yourself chain gang charlie. you built a political career on it. when you were in the state senate, you traveled to alabama with harry singletary, the very first african-american corrections secretary from the state of florida to view the chain gang. you accepted a hat from the governor of alabama that said alabama chain gang. you stood on the side of the road over three african-american prisoners in chains on their knees, harry singletary said it made him

sick to his stomach. you called to bring it to florida. the sarasota tribune called it modern day slavery. you called a bring to florida. many called it barbaric. you stood over three african-americans in chains on their knees on the side of the road saying it was a great sight, saying we need to bring it to florida. and you did this, whether you know it or not, on the eve of juneteenth, the day the african-american community celebrates the end of slavery. my question for you -- did you ever give it a second thought? did you ever hesitate or did you just see political opportunity in that moment to be a republican tough on crime? governor crist: well, you just saw what i was talking about. mr. jolly: this is a question of conviction. governor crist: excuse me, sir. i'm happy to answer your question.

the reason we did those things in addition to a stop act i sponsored as well that brought about 85% of sentences had to be served in florida because in the mid 1990's in our state we were number one in violent crime in america. and for you to suggest that it had anything to do with race is appalling. and it's beneath you. and i'm embarrassed for you that you would say that about your fellow floridian. [applause] overnor crist: i don't know. the only concern i had was for the citizens of florida who were subjected to a violent crime every three minutes and 45 seconds. we were number one in violent crime in america at the time. some of the measures we took at that time, including the stop act, requiring 85% of sentences served, has made florida a safer place ever since and of that i am very proud. [applause]

mr. jolly: you cannot be the candidate that today embraces civil justice reform and to not ave a second thought with tv cameras and photographers taking photos that will live forever that most viewers have not seen until tonight of you standing over african-american prisoners on their knees -- >> you got that. mr. jolly: and a civil justice reform today. governor crist: if i could add one thing. in all fairness, as the governor of the state of florida, i was asked right before the election in 2006, charlie, if you're elected, would you support automatic restoration of rights for former felons that are nonviolent? mawsplaws -- [applause] governor crist: and, david, just so you know where my heart is and how i feel, i am compassionate to people who are subjected to crime and i am compassionate to people who deserve to have a second chance. and i don't think the two of are inconsistent whatsoever.

i think it is common sense to try to do what's right, to try to protect people and keep them safe in their neighborhood and to give people a second chance when they paid their debt to society because i believe in forgiveness and we all should too. mr. jolly: i agree with you. >> we'll move on. [applause] >> governor crist, your wish is our command. we have a question now from st. pete college student justine, this time, governor crist, you will answer first. >> does the no fly no buy legislation violate the due process rights, and does it violate the second amendment? governor crist: i don't think it does violate your due process rights. no fly, no buy, for those who may not follow everything that happens in washington every day, is what the president has called for in trying to get guns out of the hands of those who have been listed on the national terrorist list. i support what the president is

trying to do. my opponent has voted against that proposal about 12 or 13 times. he has a different proposal which, of course, he has the right to have. but it seems to me that we ought to err on the side of safety and make sure we're getting the guns out of those that are on the terrorist list at a minimum. it just makes common sense. [applause] >> thank you. congressman. mr. jolly: you shouldn't be able to purchase it. to be denied your second amendment right today it has to be postadjudication. you are convicted of a violent felony or adjudicated mentally incompetent. the democrat proposal restricts the second amendment right with no due process. frankly, cnn says it makes too much sense. it says if you are on a terror watch list you can't buy a gun but the government has to give you a due process hearing and to have a burden of proof

deny you your constitutional right. >> we let you slide on the assault rifle ban. mr. jolly: you were in office for 18 years and when you had a chance to do something about it you didn't. the brady campaign toned gun violence gave florida an f-plus when you were governor. so i met with them recently. i support background checks. i support waiting periods. everything we can do to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. >> but you don't support an assault weapon ban? mr. jolly: for a class of weapon -- i am not there yet. it's an issue i'll continue to wrestle with. i tell you this is a human story. i protect the second amendment right but i do not support a ban on a class of weapon provide we have background checks that are infallible and in place. [applause] >> governor crist. should be the 11 million undocumented immigrants in america get a pathway to citizenship or should they be deported first? governor crist: i believe they should get a pathway to

citizenship. i think it would be inhumane to take children away from parents and send them to different places and it's unreasonable to deport 11 million people in the first place. i'm the grandson of an immigrant. i believe in immigration and i believe those that pay a tax, pay a fine, do what's right in making sure that they are competent in english, kinds of things we would require in a reasonable comprehensive immigration reform package, which i would support, i think it's the right thing to do. . mr. jolly: i support come i have board irreforms and comprehensive reform that includes remediation and so forth. i don't support a pathway to citizenship for people who came here illegally. and here's a reason why. a couple i know who came here

legally on a visa to open a floral business, a baker who came here legally, they don't have a pathway to citizenship and unfair to those people who those people who came here legally. we need to establish operational control of the border. [applause] >> congressman jolly, what should we be doing in syria today? mr. jolly: deploy the finest special operator force to go in and destroy terror around the world. the obama administration has continued to empower russia and iran that is backing a regime in syria, be it hezbollah or otherwise. we have laid did you know american leadership. my wife and i took a trip

throughout the midwest. they are begging for american leadership. we cannot have a president that sets a bright line and when it's violated, walk it back. it is weakness of leadership and policy in the white house right now. [applause] mr. crist: i believe the president has us on a good path as it relates to syria. we have seen good gains in taking over isis-controlled lands. we are beating them back where air attacks and drones and some advisers, military advisers and not having boots on the ground which i don't think would be the right approach. the way we are doing it now. mr. jolly: there are boots on the ground right now. there are boots on the ground at the order of president obama. you are disagreeing with the president's policy. they are soldiers fighting the

good fight defending our fight. they are right here in the audience. crist crist -- mr. crist: they are military advisers. >> what would you do to become even bigger in the world of tourism? mr. crist: we have all been reading about and hearing about a horrific assuming problem and the water that is being dumped in the bay for weeks. over 100 million gallons of it. that's not going to help us with tourism. what i don't understand why our representative of pinellas county, which is the center of this problem isn't advocating day after day after day for federal emergency help to get this cleaned up. our country has done it for flint.

why can't we do it for pinellas county? that's the kind of leadership you deserve. mr. jolly: the mayor who has endorsed you who oversaw this catastrophe has not asked for it. that's why. [applause] mr. crist: when a mayor has to ask for help. your mayor denied there was a problem. the mayor has endorsed you. has not opened up to this or asked for assistance. i would be happy to work from treasure island to clearwater and st. petersburg. mr. crist: do you need an invitation to serve? [applause] what would you do. mr. jolly: what would you do?

mr. crist: i would at least talk about it and bring focus to the issue. mr. jolly: what would you accomplish. mr. crist: i didn't interrupt you. i would ask them how they got help. mr. jolly: they haven't gotten it yet. >> we are moving on. let's stay on the issue of infrastructure. we aren't talking about drinking water, but what is your role as a congressman, we have problems with our transportation and our roads. what do you see your role in doing something about this? mr. jolly: i'm working with a democrat from maryland who has a great plan that would allow america to onshore and offshore resources. and put it in an infrastructure bank trust fund and fund projects here. the reality is for the past six, seven years, congress hasn't the ability to direct funding to any specific projects including

sewers in st. petersburg. have to fight for topline funding. if we can do that, we can create a bank to fund development right here. >> you don't have earmarks coming -- anymore. mr. crist: one of the two candidates has talked about an infrastructure project that it would be an important part of her administration to make sure that we have comprehensive infrastructure projects all over the united states of america. it's one of the reasons i support her. i think she would be a good steady president and address an issue that is extremely important to the state of florida in terms of roads, in temperatures of mass transit, in terms of what we are seeing as it relates to the sueage and the pipes. we need a massive amount done.

and this new administration after the next 50 days hopefully relies the focus on it. if i'm fortunate to earn your vote to work with her to get it done. [applause] >> governor, what would you do to help solve the problem of wealth and income equality? mr. crist: there are several things. there is an issue in this campaign about minimum wage. it strikes me that it is the right thing to do to increase the minimum wage to $12 and eventually $15. everywhere that has been done, seattle being one of the fine examples, the economy in those states and cities has risen and done better because sometimes you will hear some argue, if you do that, maybe people won't be employed as much. they have more disposable income and support other small businesses in their community and that's what has been

happening. that's one of the things i would do to try to help the middle class. [applause] mr. jolly: this is why working families just can't believe you. i support investing the minimum wage. when you had a position to support it, you sought opposition. in 2004 when the state of florida was having a debate about raising our minimum wage and indexing it, there was a unanimous vote by the board, you did not vote against it. i think the federal government should set a wage floor and set what is right for that state. index it and get politicians out of it. doesn't matter who is in office but reflect the economic needs. how do we empower workers and protect jobs. you want to raise the minimum wage to $15, economically, they said it would reduce jobs. >> we are go to move to

lightning round again and governor crist, keep these more in the lightning arena. can you pledge not to seek a different office for at least four years? [laughter] mr. jolly: i don't know if i'm in this for two years or 10 years. i'm not in this to build a political career. that's the difference between charlie and i. [applause] mr. crist: god bless you, david. but after a year you asked the voters of this district to give you their vote, you decided to leave and run for the united states senate. what kind of confidence can they have from you on this issue? mr. jolly: i continue to represent pinellas county. i have put pinellas first.

that's the difference between you and i. >> congressman jolly, should congress work to repeal citizens united? mr. jolly: we should change a whole lot of it. i read the stop act, there is too much money in politics but members of congress raise too much money. a candidate committee like yself is becoming -- mr. crist: yes. overturn citizens united. >> governor crist, what's the last book you read? >> the bible. besides the bible. mr. crist: i read it every morning. mr. jolly: a book about how we manage fisheries. >> should obamacare be repealed, congressman? mr. jolly: i would vote to repeal it, but if we don't have

a replacement it's an exercise in futility. it was a lie to people that you could keep your plan. we can't embrace the winners. the bottom line for me is nobody should be worse off that we should replace what is the big government obamacare model that frankly charlie said was wrong in 2009. combur cats standing between patients and their physicians and big government shoving it down our throats. >> you voted to repeal it? mr. jolly: yes. mr. crist: what would that would do on 17 million of our fellow americans would be catastrophic. a million floridians who have health care because of the affordable care act would not have it anymore and go back to the days where we had discrimination in health care delivery.

the affordable care act said that if you had a pre-existing condition, you cannot be refused health care. before the affordable care act, there was a fact that women had to pay higher premiums than men. this act isn't perfect. [applause] >> what grade would you give president obama? mr. crist: an a. >> congressman? mr. jolly: it's the same grade you gave ronald reagan when he was a republican. it's a mixed bag, but i think he is ranking up there with jimmy carter. >> is that a b, c. mr. jolly: his foreign policy has failed. we are less secure today because of the president's foreign policy. >> wet foot, dry foot policy for cubans?

mr. jolly: if someone reaches our shores, they should have the opportunity to stay. >> only for cuba? mr. crist: i agree. >> we will be back more from david jolly and charlie crist after a short break and we want to thank our sponsors, we will be back after a short break. [applause] >> welcome back to the congressional district 13 congressional debate with congressman jolly and governor crist. congressman jolly, in a few decades, we are going to have to cut benefits for social security unless something happens and more revenue is found. what would you do to strengthen social security and income up to a million be taxable in that range? mr. jolly: yes, i voted against my own party's budget because of

this issue. if we extract the politics out of it, it is obvious. democrats and republicans have had their plans and they said we voted for a budget. what has happened? we are in debt. and so my position is this. let's say if you have worked 40 quarters, you should be vested in the current benefits structure. if you have yet to enter the work force, you will have a different program. it's going to be the best in the world but it may be means tested and may look very different. mr. crist: there is a simple solution to this problem. we know that social security is solvent through the years 2034 or 2037. if we lift the cap and that's what you were referring to, right now you pay into social

curity if you make zero to $118,000. it makes common sense to me that you should. why those who make the most not participate in this important plan. if we did that, we would solve the security issue almost forever. and that is the responsible thing to do and that's what i would advocate. [applause] >> what is the single biggest issue and concerns facing veterans in tampa bay? mr. jolly: getting appropriate service. i met with a lot of veterans during this campaign. when i was governor, i appointed a secretary of veterans affairs. they need someone who will fight for them. they need to get their appointments on time and not be delayed in getting the appropriate health care they need and need a member of congress who will vote for an

additional $15 million for the veterans administration instead of voting against additional $15 million as david jolly did as recently as 2015. [applause] mr. jolly: there has been no greater advocate. i introduced a freedom card that says you choose where you want to go. on the benefits backlog, i worked with the secretary, what do you need? he said i need more employees. veterans' suicide rates, 22 a day, i worked with the community. but here's the problem. you recited a quote from nancy pelosi that was given three long oses by the "washington post." >> do you deny that you didn't vote -- i'm just asking the question. where is the ideal place to locate a new race' stadium and

would you oppose moving it? mr. jolly: i would oppose to moving it to hillsborough. mr. crist: anywhere in pinellas county. maybe the only thing we agree on. >> lightning round. congressman jolly, do you intend to vote for your party's nominee? it took you 45 minutes to get there. mr. jolly: donald trump does not have my support today. i understand millions of people support him because they want to change washington. i want to change washington as well. i won't be voting for secretary clinton. i'm not voting for mr. trump today. it's not a trick here. i'm struggling like millions of america caps and looking for

leadership in our two candidates and not seeing it. >> are you voting for your party's nominee? mr. crist: i am. i'm proud of hillary clinton, a good secretary of state, good senator from the state of new york. he is steady and honest. governor crist, what living political leader do you admire most today? mr. crist: the president. >> same question to you. aren't y: most people going to know him. tom cole is a great leader in the house of republics. i look to my congress, mr. young, for leadership and i thank him for what he taught me.

>> in hindsight, would you invade iraq? mr. jolly: knowing the intelligence we have now, yes. let's not get into this debate over behind sight and look past the fact that thousands upon thousands of men and women in uniform fought to make this world safer at great sacrifice to themselves, being forever changed, both with mental health and physical health. always in hindsight, we can look back to every war we had and question decisions. let's not disspearge the honor men and women -- >> in hindsight was it a mistake to invade iraq? mr. crist: in hindsight, anybody would say it was. and i'm sympathetic to those who

made the decision to go based on the information they were presented at the time. that should never happen. we have to be transparent and be honest with each other especially when you are talking about sending americans into battle and harm's way. >> should rick scott expand medicaid? mr. crist: no question about it. >> should rick scott expand medicaid? mr. jolly: the state senate reached a compromise on how to expand care for individuals and so i think i would have followed the state senate lead on a compromised position. >> what is your biggest regret in public service? mr. crist: my biggest regret in public service, i don't know that i have one. i have been honored and

privileged to serve as a state senator from this area and serve as your commissioner of education, serve as your attorney general and fight rate increases from insurance companies, lower your property insurance. all of these have been a great privilege for me and appoint four members of the florida supreme court to extend voting rights to help people so they could vote early. >> thank you, governor. >> no regrets in your career but closing argument. each of you have one minute. mr. crist: i thank the "tampa bay times," and all of you here tonight. this is an important election. this election this year, not just between david and myself, but the election this year may be one of the most important of our lives. i would encourage you to exercise that precious right to

vote. it is absolutely important. we have to start early voting soon. votes are going to be mailed out october 4 for mail-in voting. please exercise that right. we are privileged as americans to have it. it would be an honor to serve you in the united states congress and i won't bicker with my friends or colleagues and i will represent you with a civil tone that you will be proud of. thank you. [applause] clear. y: the choice is my opponent ran for office 30 years ago and promoted his party's agenda. i first ran three years ago and i have tried to shatter the mold of modern politics, from hard issues of campaign finance reform, to v.a. reform, to gun reform and along the way help

families, restore benefits for veterans and the elderly. i'm trying to change politics, not go back 30 years. if you believe, regardless of party, neighborhood, ideology, join me. i'm asking for the opportunity to keep doing my job. [applause] >> thanks for joining us tonight . hope you learned something about these two candidates and what separates them. >> we want to thank congressman david jolly and governor charlie crist. thank you for being here and thank you to the crowd and those watching at home. we appreciate it, too. we want to thank our sponsors. and special thanks to the theater as well. thank you for your hospital here. d for all of us here, good

night. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> at 8:0, the pre-debate briefing for the audience. 9:00 p.m., live coverage of the debate. 2016 presidential debate or

c-span. listen live on the free c-span radio app. >> leading up to the debates between hillary clinton and donald trump, we look at past presidential debates. this saturday, 1976 debate between gerald ford and jimmy carter. >> we were faced with heavy inflation, over 12%. we were faced with substantial unemployment. but in the last 24 months, we have turned the economy around, we have 500,000 more americans out of jobs today than were out f work three months ago.

>> we had adequate warning that there was a threat to our embass question and could have done what embassies there. remove our personnel before the kidnapping took place. >> and 2000 presidential debate between george bush and al gore. >> i'll balance the budget every year. i will pay down the national debt. i will put medicare and social security in a lock box and protect them. >> i want to take one half of the surplus and dedicate it to social security. one quarter of the surplus for important projects and send one quarter of the surplus back to the people who pay the bills.

>> watch past presidential debates saturday night on -span. to a discussion on early voting, which got under way in minnesota and south dakota and a focus of what happens to voters who decided not to vote for either of the major candidates.

voters who know they would vote for them. if they can bank those early, there is a whole bunch of reasons for that. in a state where maybe you are worried if it's competitive, you could if you feel like you banked enough of your supporters early, you could pull resources out of that and direct it to a state that are going to have a harder time winning.

>> we looked as a voter breakdown on which voters were turning out when and what we found was that in a light of cases, democrats have been historically better at this than republicans. but in both cases early voters a lot of them are what we call base partisans. these are people who arguably would turn out no matter what. so then they would turn out on election day, but have decided they have made up their mind and going to vote early. there is debate in the campaign world whether or not it matters

and whether or not they vote early. who cares when they do it. but there is disagreement about whether or not there is some stragg teekic advantages of running up the numbers early. the other groups that vote early are voters, we call unreliable voters. people who would vote for your candidate, but might not turn out. and what campaigns work really hard to do both on election day and particularly in early voting is drive them to the polls. so we saw in ohio, some areas have what they called soul to the polls, a lot of black churches get in advance and drive people to the polls to vote early. it's a good organizing tool to have multiple weekends and

multiple days throughout the last few weeks of the campaign to mobilize those people. >> what about the voter who said there is no way i'm voting for donald trump or no way i'm voting for hillary clinton. what impact does that have and who are these people? >> those are the partisan-base folks that i was mentioning. people who have made up their vote re probably going to for hillary clinton or donald trump. getting them in the bank early matters because if you can -- here's why it matters in one state in particular. in nevada, what we find is that a large percentage of persuadeable voters vote early and voters that are undecided and opposite of what you asked

about. and reaching them early is so important in these states because they are going to make up their blind before election day and if you are not on the air waves and not campaigning there, there is a risk they are going to make a decision based on whatever is in the news cycle that day and if you are not the last person to persuade them, you missed out. what banking partisan base helps with, gets people out of the way. so you can focus on the persuadeable voters that you need, the small group of people that usually flip states, close states either way. >> thank you very much. reporter of bloomberg politics. >> minutes ago, president obama vetoing a bill that would have allowed families of 9/11 victims

to saw saudi arabia government. president obama vetoes 9/11 lawsuit bill s. 2040, the justice against sponsors of terrorism act. his 12th veto as president. as part of a team of lobbyists, the saudi government has two former lawmakers, a democrat from louisiana and trent lmp ott nd read more about that on thehill.com. josh earnest may veto. the measure filed by senate majority leader. press secretary earnest said the white house would prefer to avoid a government shutdown but without money to deal with the water crisis in michigan and without changes to campaign finance disclosure laws, it raises concerns. he was asked about whether

president obama will be watching the first presidential debate. >> monday night, the president have any plans. oing to tune in and watch. mr. earnest: monday night football. i'm sure the president knows. i would anticipate that he will watch much if not all of it. look, i think there will be millions of people across the country quite interesting to see the candidates on the stage for the first time. and i imagine the president will be one of them. >> once more, we will have a government, of, by and for the people. >> we are stronger together. nd no matter, remember this, love trumps hate. >> the campaign continues on the road to the white house with the

first presidential debate monday night live beginning at 7:30 p.m. eastern with a preview of the debate. 8:30, pre-debate briefing. 9:00 p.m., live coverage of the debate. the 2016 presidential debate on c-span. watch any time on demand at c-span.org or listen live on the free c-span radio app. >> our c-span campaign 2016 bus is in ohio this week and asking students and voters, which candidates do you support in this election and why. >> i'm a freshman business management major. this campaign i'm going to be supporting gary johnson because the other candidates i don't trust. options.hey are poor

>> i'm a political science senior at ohio northern university. nd part of the political science honorary. i will be supporting hoint in november 2016 as she is most qualified for the position and believes in the same things i do and i think she is running on a more unifying platform. thank you. >> i'm supporting donald trump for president. i believe donald trump is the best candidate because he provides the most sound policies on national security and will turn our economy around and make us great again. >> i'm voting for gary johnson, not only does he understand important issues but i agree with a lot of his policies. >> voices from the road on c-span.

>> president obama will be speaking tomorrow at the opening of the new african-american history and culture museum. president bama and bush and mrs. bush and congressman john lewis. c-span's live coverage gets under way at 10:00. on the national mall in washington, d.c., where the museum is located, there are tweets about freedom sounds. it's a free three-day festival for the opening of the museum. here's a look inside the museum with the founding director and the secretary. [applause]

good morning and welcome. might what a good reason to here. when you spend some time here, you will say you have been delighted to be in this sacred place. e will show you to be moved. i'm from the office of public affairs and delighted to have worked with you for so many years. i see so many familiar faces and people who have been with us nce day one, before we had a

construction site and 45,000 collection items. you have been with us on a magnificent journey and we appreciate your company. our journ has been made much smoother because of the leader secretary of the smithsonian institution and has extraordinary unique gifts. we have come to not just admire but to count on his wisdom, his vision, his passion his compassion and this man has a wicked sense of humor and plays a mean jazz flute and sacks. please welcome the 13th secretary of the smithsonian institution.

>> it's apleasure to welcome producers, and photographers today. 10 days from this day, extraordinary museum is dedicated by president obama, our country will have the opportunity to gain a fuller understanding of what it means to be an american. this museum explores our national identity through a particular lense reflecting the life experiences over time of african-americans. heir stories illustrated through voices and writings and courage and determination and innovation and leadership comprise an eloquent and powerful narrative central to our national identity. the idea to an institution

devoted so african-american history was first suggested by black civil war veterans a century ago. later, herbert hoover proposed building to contribute but had to await the 21st century before plans started to take shape. and in 2003, congress passed legislation to make the museum a reality as part of the smithsonian family. we are grateful to president obama and to congress for providing ongoing support and for establishing the museum's council, which has offered guidance and encouragement over the months and years it took to get to this day. this landmark comes at a significant time in history for the smithsonian and for our country. it will enable us to advance

james smith's mandate, and diffusing knowledge in ways than our founding benefactor would have imagined. the smithsonian is an american institution comprising 19 museums, established at key points in our 170-year history. the inauguration of our newest museum occurs as race and cultural differences dominate the national discourse. this museum can be an ideal gathering place to learn, to hold conversations to be inspired and be uplifted. the smithsonian can and i believe should provide a forum for discussions relevant to our mission, especially when these can shine a light on the history

on the public we serve. this is true of the national museum of african-american history and culture and true of all the other museums, research centers and education initiatives. museums in the 21st century are dynamic learning institutions that use the exceptional power of art and artifacts to evoke feelings, teach and energize people and at a time of great sin civil and distrust of so many establishments of the press and even of government, libraries and museums remain among the most trusted sources of information in our country. frequently, i visit museums on my own without my i.d. badge to view exhibits along with them. you can actually see people appear to change especially young people, as they explore an

exhibition and light up with a spark of recognition. museums have the exassity that touch lives and transform the way people see the world and interact with each other. the museums of the smithsonian are all working to share the treasures we care for in thought-provoking and engaging ways and the newest member of our family is setting the bar even higher for the visitor experience across the smithsonian. opening now at a time when social and political discord remind us that racism is not unfortunately a thing of the past. this museum can and i believe will help advance the public conversation. it was in 1863 when frederick douglass said, the relation between the white and colored people of this country is the

great paramount imperative and all commanding question for this age and nation to solve. well, a century and a half later, it is high time to honor the words of this statesman who began life as a slave. as its mission states, our nation's newest landmark was created to be a beacon that reminds us of what we were, what challenges we still face and point us towards what we can become. from its extraordinary design representing openness, strength and hope to its collection, the building stands at the crossroads of the past and the future. virtually all the objects housed within it were donated by people eager to share parts of their own history with the public. it is the only one of our buildings, including the castle,

constructed without a pre-existing collection. as you will soon see, the objects contained within these walls are as diverse as the people associated with them. some like the gas-topped coffin of emet till may make you angry or may move you to tears. others like chuck berry's cadillac may lift your spirits. individually and together, these artifacts and these documents represent a country that is complicated and ever evolving. the many people who opened, used, saved and gave us these objects emerged through them as the artists who created the paintings and other works on display. it is they who made this museum a reality. and on behalf of the smithsonian and the public we serve, we are deeply honored to and grateful

for them. as soon as the vision of the museum started to take shape, the enormous cost of the project became apparent. half of the funding to construct the building was provided through federal appropriation. the remainder needed to be raised from private sources. and the outpouring of financial support has been generous and moving. organizations of all kinds have joined in the effort from major corporations and foundations to church groups and scout troops. the number of individual supporters is especially astonishing. there are people who wrote checks for $1 million or more and those who contributed whatever they could from a dollar up. to date, more than 100,000 people have come aboard as members. this is a record for the smithsonian. and we are deeply grateful to each of them and all of those who recognize the importance of

this museum and its role in the life of the country. in 2005, work on this project seriously got under way with the appointment of a director. loney must have known the challenges ahead of creating a museum from stem to state your name but he don't blink. in 11 years, he led efforts to imagine, design and construct this awe-inspiring building, envisioned and developed the interpretative plan for the museum and lead the campaign to fund it. perhaps the most challenging task in my view that loney oversaw was creating the collection itself, an initiative that required a national awareness effort, crrble travel and research and along the way he put together an incredible

staff, a group of talented, bold, smart museum professionals who you will get to know beginning today. it is my honor to introduce the person who did more than any other to make the national museum of african-american history and culture a reality. loney bunch. thank you. [applause] >> david, thank you for your leadership and kind words. there is no way this would happen without the kind of leadership that you and richard have given us to make sure that we know that the smithsonian was with us every step of the way. you know, it's hard for me to remember but 11 years ago we started this with a staff of two

with no collections at all. we really had no idea where the site of the museum would be. we had to raise a lot of money but didn't know where we were going to get that money from. all we knew is we had a vision, vision that we wanted to help all who encountered the museum to remember, to remember the rich history of the african-american and tell what the historian said, you must tell the unvarnished truth. we felt it was crucial to craft a museum that would help america remember and confront, confront its you tortured racial past. but we also thought while america should ponder the pain of slavery and segregation, it had to find the joy, the hope, the resiliencey, the spirituality that was indemocratic in this community. in essence, the goal was to find

that tension between moments of tears and moments of great joy. but we also knew that remembering wasn't enough. we needed to craft a museum that would use the history and culture of the african-american community as a lense to better understand what it meant to be an american. the goal was to help all regardless of race or ethnicity, to help all realize how profoundly affected we are as americans by the african-american experience. in many ways, we discovered that the african-american experience is the american experience. it is the experience that helped us understand our notions of optimism, our notions of liberty, our notions of citizenship. we realized this is a story for us all and not just one community. we also knew that we were

standing on the shoulders of other museums, large and small, african-american and not, who had done sotch of the work that allowed us to make this vision real. we felt it was crucial that we had to be a place of collaboration, that we had to encourage visitors to come to washington, but then go back and explore how cultures explored at the studio museum of harlem or the california african-american museum or the museum in chicago. it was crucial that we were part of a national network of museums that cared about the past. but i have to tell you, i'm so pleased to welcome you here today because this museum, this museum on the national mall or as we call it america's front yard, this museum tries to fulfill the dreams of so many generations who believe that

america would be made better if it understood, if it grappled with, if it immersed itself in the african-american experience and i'm pleased to welcome you this signature building created by a group that was led by max bond and that the building was really in the mind of its gifted lead designer. could all the architects stand for me right now who worked on it from an architect url point of view. [applause] it is shaped by the design of

enslaved craft people who created so much of the beautiful iron work in charleston and new orleans. but it's important to remember that this building does not simply look back, but rather, it looks to the future by being the first sustainable building on the mall and the architects allowed us to do that. this is a place that looks back and revels in the past but pointing us towards the future. and i'm happy for you to explore the amazing exhibitions that take us through the history and culture. a result of a collaboration between gifted curators and scholars on our staff and the design and expertise by our designers. i have to tell you, we are at this moment because of an

amazing group of people. i cannot thank enough the council of this museum. these are people who for more than of a decade, gave their time, the laura bushes, the colin powells. these are people who said this story is important enough. and what they did is they provided amazing guidance and use the their influence to help us meet and exceed our fundraising goal. but they did more than that. they helped us believe that we could do this. there was a meeting i remember when the economy was going bad and the fund raiding was going i was told, look at these people, we don't fail. they gave us that confidence.

their time to make this work. and i will never forget that. we are at this moment, because it truly takes an institution, the smithsonian institution to birth a national museum. i cannot express how much we appreciate the support of the regents and senior leadership because they made this endeavor possible. leadership is the key, from secretary adams through secretary small, through the secretaries, the institution has never waivered in its port of this museum. it has been its number one priority. but we are also at this moment because of thousands of individuals and corporations and foundations, who suspended rules, who dug deeply into their pockets to give the museum the support, the money, the collections that it needed to tell the story. i have to be honest, that is the

most impressive part of this that all these people came together and said, we will give whether it is money or whether it is our own story to the collections we'll give you. what they made us realize is that the time was now for this museum. and we are at this moment because of the bipartisan support that we receive in congress. and bipartisan is not something you hear in washington, but we received amazing support. and from the early days of john lewis to the sponsorship of people like j.c. watts and senator brownback and the congressional leadership, this has been an example of america at its best, of people of different races, different political points of view coming together to craft something they believed could make america better. and finally, i have to say that i need the knowledge that we

have one of the most gifted staffs i ever worked with, that in some ways, this is like the 1961 yankees or 1985 bears, these folks can play. and i tell you, led by the up.ty director -- stand [applause] >> you will never know the sacrifices and the work they put in but they will know because what they've done is something that my youngest daughter described, once they finish the building, it means that this building will be made available for the public to engage its rich history as long as there is an america. ultimately this museum looks back, helps show where we are but hipts at what a future can

be, maybe even help us find reconciliation and healing. but in some ways we believe so strongly in the words of james baldwin, the past is all that makes the president coherent. for us this is an amazing moment. and i thank you so much for being with us. thank you. [applause] saying this but yeah, that's good. >> "the wall street journal"

also shared pictures of what museum visitors will be able to see. nine of carpal lewis' olympic and world championship medals. the red 1978 eldorado cadillac that belonged to chuck berry. a trumpet played by louis armstrong. this is the dress rosa parks was selling on the day she was arrested when the refused to sit at the back of the bus during segregation in montgomery, alabama. you can watch the opening of the museum tomorrow here on c-span. ahead of the opening ceremony, we spoke with african-american members of congress about the museum. >> congressman , in your view, what is the importance of the new african-american museum to the country? mr. ellison: the new african-american museum is so esen torble any american identity, no matter what color or background you may have. you can argue that the revolutionary war,