complex in hempstead, new york. hillary clinton and donald trump will be there for the first of three present of debates. over the next hour and 15 minutes, we will also talk to a former what itoderator about is like to moderate a presidential debate. >> with the three presidential debates and the one vice presidential debate about to get underway, what to expect from the candidates, hillary clinton, donald trump, and the running mates? first, let's look at the schedule. monday's debate will take place at hofstra university in hempstead, new york. lester holt will be the moderator. that will be followed by the vice presidential debate in farmville, virginia. elaine quijano will be the monitor -- moderator of that

debate between senator tim kaine and governor mike pence, the republican nominee. the second presidential debate is a town hall meeting format on the campus of washington university in st. louis. anderson cooper and martha radice will be the co-moderators. the third and final debate between donald trump and hillary clinton, on the campus of university of nevada las vegas. chris wallace will be the moderator. joining us on the phone is annie kearny who has been following all of this for politico. annie: thanks for having me. host: let's talk about donald trump and hillary clinton. what is their approach? annie: this is the most critical moment of the race for both of them. clinton, she has been preparing in a very standard way with a big team around her who have done debate for democratic presidential candidates going back to the 1990's, and she has two goals.

she needs to discredit him and make him look unqualified, and she also needs to give voters a positive reason for voting for her. they both have very high unfavorables in the campaign and, in a series of speeches have been trying to give voters something to vote for, not just against. that is part of what she has to do. donald trump, like the rest of his campaign, has been going about debate prep in an unorthodox way. he has said he doesn't want to do mock sessions with a hillary clinton standin. roger ailes has been advising him, but just like the rest of his campaign, he might be winging it, whereas hillary clinton has been pouring over briefing books, doing this the standard way, doing these practice sessions. she is doing a standard campaign, and he is doing something else. host: let me follow up on two

stories you have been writing about, first, hillary clinton and an ammonia and a talking points she had to give her staff after finding out about the pneumonia but not disclosing it for a couple days later. does that fit into a narrative that has hurt hillary clinton? i think the fact that she didn't disclose it did raise questions about her transparency , which is, along with the e-mail controversy, this is what has eaten away at her trust numbers and on favorability. i think it was damaging, because there is a narrative out there that she is very secretive or private and this idea that she thought she could just power through without revealing it. the question is, would it have been better for her to reveal it ? in retrospect, yes. they made a calculation that donald trump would beat her up

if she said she had pneumonia and imply it's not really pneumonia. it didn't work out for her in the end, but that was probably the thinking of not disclosing it. it also became apparent that she did not tell a lot of her campaign officials. she only told a small group of people, which fed into the idea she is isolated with a small group of trusted aides. robby mook, her campaign manager, apparently didn't know she had pneumonia. these are all questions of, is she transparent? is she trustworthy? this debate is a moment for her to counter that, to give people a reason to believe in her and trust she is the person best qualified to be president. host: finally, what do you think is the overriding question for donald trump we will hear from lester holt? for him, i think the thing here is that the bar is much lower. people have lower expectations for how he will do.

people know that hillary is an experienced debater. the debates were high points for her in her past president for campaigns. donald trump, if he can get through 90 minutes of being able to answer questions on substance and not attacking her in personal ways or talking about his hands or whatever hijinks he pulled in the primary debates, people will think he did ok. a democrat i was talking to compared him to the dancing bear. if a bear doesn't have to dance very well, but if a bear dances at all, you think it is impressive. that is what democrats fear, that there will be a lower bar for him, and it will look like he did well, even if it's not a performance equivalent of hers. from lester holt, the challenge is fact-checking donald trump in real-time.

matt lauer got even serrated for letting donald trump say he was against the war in iraq when he was not an letting that statement go unchallenged. i think there is a lot of tossure on the moderators hold these candidates accountable in real-time. donald trump will have to contend with explaining himself and not saying things that are factually untrue. host: annie kearny, her work available online at politico.com. thanks for being with us. we want to look at some of those moments in this campaign, and i want to introduce to you brett o'donnell, the president of his own firm, o'donnell and associates. thank you for being with us. what goes on behind the scenes

that we don't see? brett: what you don't see is very, very careful planning and preparation for these debates. most think of it as a couple hours spent debating someone else in a mock debate because we have seen it in television shows, but in reality, it is many, many hours, on a set that is usually built to the specifications of debate sets themselves. careful planning and thinking through on the part of policy teams, communication teams, exactly how they will frame their arguments, and trying to plan out moments in the debate that they can see as competitive advantage over their opponents. debates are about two things. they are about message and moments. they are about carrying a message narrative that the press can write, and they are about having moments in the debate that will draw the attention of

the press positively for your candidate, moments like reagan's line on age to walter mondale, or other famous moments. "there you go again," reagan to carter. these are moments that draw attention in the debate positively for your candidate and shall competitive advantage. host: i want to come back to that point, but it was just over a year ago that donald trump was participating in a cnn debate at the reagan library, and carly fiorina came up. she was one of the republican candidates vying for the gop nomination. i want to ask you about this. in an interview last week in "ronald stone," donald trump said, look at that face, would anyone vote for that? could you imagine that, the face of our next president? mr. trump said he was talking about your persona, not your appearance. what you to respond think about his persona. it's interesting to me.

mr. trump said he heard mr. bush very quick -- very clearly. i think women all over this country heard clearly what mr. trump said. [applause] >> i think she's got a beautiful face, and i think she's a beautiful woman. host: as you look at that moment, is it likely that something like that could happen between hillary clinton and donald trump? brett: i don't know if it will be over hillary clinton's beauty, but it may the over her personality. in 2008 when she ran against barack obama, her personality came up, and barack obama will famously said, you are likable enough. that is still a question mark. certainly, he has made her

stamina and issue in this campaign, and he seemed to question whether she had the appearance to be president of the united states. people asked, is it a matter of looksee echo it would be a mistake for him to bring that up. there are a ton of substantive attacks he can go after hillary clinton on. personal, that can backfire. host: the issue of jeb bush and his wife also came up in that debate. governor bush, mr. trump has suggested that your views on immigration are influenced by your mexican-born wife. he said, "if my wife were from mexico, i would have a soft spot for people from mexico." did mr. trump go too far? >> he did. you are proud of your family just as i am. to subject my wife into the middle of a raucous political conversation was-inappropriate,

and i hope you apologize. >> i have to tell you, i hear phenomenal things. i've heard your wife is a lovely woman. >> she is the love of my life. she is here. i want to apologize -- you to apologize to her. >> i've heard she's a lovely woman. a my wife is mexican-american. she's an american by choice. she loves this country as much as anybody in this room, and she wants a secure border. she wants to embrace the traditional american values that make a special and make us unique. we are at a crossroads. are we going to take the reagan approach, the hopeful, optimistic approach, the approach that says, you come to our country legally, you create opportunities for all of us, or the donald trump approach? it's an approach that says everything is bad, that everything is coming to an end. >> i have said that they come in our country as an act of love. with all of the problems we have in so many instances -- we have

wonderful people coming in -- with all of the problems, this is not an act of love. he's a week on immigration, in favor of common core, which is also a disaster. he doesn't get my vote. host: from september of last year, courtesy of cnn. he didn't apologize. he didn't say he made a mistake. brett: i actually thought that was a good moment for donald trump, because he was able to move it from the personal, from jeb's wife, which jeb wanted to make it about, and instead move it to the issue of immigration. that moment ended up working for donald trump and not working for jeb bush. jeb bush needed to pin donald trump down and say, you're going to apologize, or this debate is not going to proceed. able to pick up the issue and move on. that is what trump needs to do. trump needs to keep the debate

on the substantive. the substantive does include some personal things. it includes hillary clinton's e-mails and how she handled them, but he needs to keep it on the substantive, not the personal. host: that was a multi-candidate debate. donald trump and hillary clinton will be facing each other, no third party candidate, just the two of them for 90 minutes, so how would the approach be different? brett: for trump, it means he has to study up on issues. he has not sustained a 90-minute debate where he has had to talk policy for 90 minutes. he will have to do that this time. in primary debates with multiple candidates, he was able to fade into the background, but in this debate, he's going to have to show he has command of the issues.

i agree that the bar may potentially be lower, but it is still there. there is still a bar that he's got to pass that shows he's confident and ready to be president. for hillary clinton, i think the bar is a little bit different. i think for her, its trustworthiness, buti agree thay potentially be it is also the performative aspect. we have not seen hillary come out and not only project a vision for sure we -- for where she would take the country but be hopeful herself. one of the things that made it hard to be against barack obama was that he was likable, and hillary does not project that as well. she's got to walk a fine line between aggression and likability and make sure she stays on offense but also doesn't cross the line, the same thing trump has to do. for her, it's a little bit more difficult. test with a tougher audiences, given gender communication roles. this is not something that is made up. it is unfortunately a kind of unwritten rule in societal

communication. there are a lot of studies that verify this and say, when men are aggressive, they are viewed positively, but when women are overly aggressive, they can be viewed negatively. she's got to walk a fine line. in the commander-in-chief for, she stayed on defense for most of the night. for her, this means doing the things that she can do well. she has done them well in prior debates. i think it means upping her game on the performance side. i like in these debates a lot to the bush-gore debates where bush was not the national politician. he had been governor of the state of texas but have not worked with national issues. the bar was low for him in terms of issue preparation, and then hillary, who like gore had been -- had worked in national issues, has been a senator, secretary of state, people

expected a lot out of gore in those debates, and he could never find his voice. i think that is a problem that clinton faces. she is still searching for that voice. she hasn't found it yet. host: one of the mystics people look back to in 2000 was on al gore -- mistakes people look back to in 2000 was a different al gore showed up in each debate. i want to go back to something you said earlier, practicing one-liners. how do you do that, make it seem natural? brett: it is really about practice. that is why i think both candidates should be doing live practice. i liken this to an athletic team. a football team doesn't sit around and talk about the plays they are going to run. to actually practice those plays and run them in a game. the same is true for these candidates. in order for them to seem natural, they have to be practiced over and over and over

again with a stand-in so you can get a feel for how the exchanges going to go down. i think trump has thought of some lines in prior debates. it's obvious that he is good at ing, so he's got that notion down, and he has thought of lines, but the question is, have they thought of moments? have they thought about how they will game out particular moments in the debate where he can draw the press attention and sees competitive advantage over her? the e-mail issue is ripe for that. her handling of the clinton foundation is another issue that can come up in the debates. or her issue as secretary, what she did with libya policy, it's something he's talked about before. the question is whether or not they have thought how to game out those scenarios. in the bush example you just showed, it was pretty clear that governor bush had intentionally thought about asking trump to

apologize, but he hadn't thought about what would happen if trump said no. he didn't really have a game plan for how that scenario would play out, and the same thing is true for trump. he has to think about, what happens if clinton response in different ways to the attacks that he levies? host: we know the moderators are practicing with their questions. from august of last year, one of the seminal moments in the republican primary this cycle, megyn kelly of the fox news journal. >> mr. trump, one of the things people love about you is you speak your mind and don't use a politician's filter. that is not without its downsides, in particular when it comes to women.you have called women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs, and disgusting animals. >> only rosie o'donnell. >> host no, it wasn't.

>> your twitter account -- [applause] for the record, it was well beyond rosie o'donnell. >> i'm sure it was. >> your twitter account has several disparaging comments about women's looks. you once told a contestant on "apprentice" that it would be a pretty picture to see her on her knees. like the sound to you temperament of a man we should elect as president, and how will you answer the charge of hillary clinton that you are part of the war on women? the big problem this country has is being politically correct. [applause] i have been challenged by so many people, and i don't frankly have time for a total political correctness, and to be honest with you, this country doesn't have time either. this country is in big trouble. we don't win anymore. we lose to china.

we lose to mexico, both in trade and at the border. we lose to everybody. what i say is, it's fun. it's kidding. what i say is what i say. i'mou don't like it, megyn, sorry. i've been very nice too, although maybe i cannot be based on the way you've treated me, but i wouldn't do that. [boos] you know what? we need strength. we need energy. we need to quickness, and we need brains in this country to turn it around. that i can tell you right now. from august 6 in cleveland, ohio of last year, the first debate that took place just before the convention a year out. let me go back to how trump responded to megyn kelly's question. he pivoted to talk about jobs, the country, america, but then he brought it to donald trump. brett: that was the mistake.

attacking the moderator is not a good idea. they are not your audience. the audience are the people watching at home and your opponent. you want to keep attacks focused on your opponent and your message focused on your audience. that means the moderators job was really tough, but the debater's job is particularly tough, as well. there are moments when you need to go after the moderator, when they have made a terrible mistake. for instance, in the romney-obama debate, when the moderator inserted herself wrong actually, about whether or not president obama had called the incident in benghazi a terrorist attack. moderators have to walk a fine line. it's very difficult for them. they have to keep the candidates fact checked, and they have to

ask the questions. for the most part, they should be stepping out. the fact-checking job should be the job of the opponent, to say, you are wrong about this issue. the debate is between them, not the moderator. the moderator has a tough job. the debaters need to keep it from becoming personal about the moderators. most of the time, that can come off poorly. host: you have advised president bush, senator mccain, governor romney. as you look back at the time you spend with these republican candidates and nominees, was there a moment in your practices that stands out? brett: there was. there is one story i will always hold fondly, and that was with senator mccain during the primary debates. we used to be much more relaxed with the senator in preparing him for debates. we had been going after then senator clinton for an earmark

she had requested for a woodstock music memorial in new york. aat earmark happened to be payback to a campaign donor of hers. prep,e sitting in debate and we thought about having a funny response, something that would capture the imagination of the press. senator mccain reminded us that he was a prisoner in the hanoi hilton during the time of woodstock. we all said, senator, you need to say that, and he asked, how would i do that? he thought about it for a second and said, how about this? he said, let's use our line, which is, woodstock was a great pharmaceutical and cultural experience. i would have loved to have been there, but i was all tied up. that line got a standing ovation from the crowd. it was a great moment, and it

the candidates -- in order for them to really perform, they can't be programmed by a bunch of advisors. they have to buy in and be participants. that was one of those great moments where senator mccain was fully immersed in the process, came up with this great one that worked in the debates. host: another moment from march of this past year in detroit, michigan, the fox news debate. >> i have a policy question for you, sir. >> lets see if he answers. don't worry about it. don't worry about it, little markup. >> let's hear it, big done. >> don't worry about it, little marco. >> gentlemen! you've got to do better than that. >> this guy has the number one absentee record in the united states. >> i would like to ask a policy question. tax-cut -- mr.d trump, your proposed tax cut

would add $10 trillion to the nation's debt over 10 years. host: from detroit, michigan, little marco, lying ted cruz, crooked hillary. he is quick to add a moniker to some of his opponents. brett: and low-energy jeb, which was one of the things that really hurt governor bush and his candidacy. trump has been very good at branding. probablyittle marco wasn't as effective as lying ted and some of the others, but he has been very effective at branding. the question is, can he move beyond this sloganeering and branding to create message? the bar is little higher for him in these presidential debates. i thought it was a mistake for both marco and trump to get into this back and forth with the

name-colin, but some of the labels stuck, and they did severe damage because they were not effectively answered in the primary process. the challenge for secretary clinton is, can she answer some of the branding that is going to come her way monday night? host: under the category of the rules don't seem to apply to donald trump, here's a moment from another debate in cleveland, ohio. >> i will tell you that our system is broken. i gave to many people. i give to everybody. when they call, i give. when i need something from them two years later, three years later, i call them, and they are there for me. >> what did you get from hillary clinton and nancy pelosi? with hillary clinton, i said, be at my wedding, and she came to my wedding. you know why? i gave to a foundation that

frankly that foundation is supposed to do good. i didn't know the money would be used on private jets going all over the world. it was. host: that foundation and his own foundation, likely to get questions in monday's debate, but again, the issue of the rules not applying, most candidates would shy away from saying, yes, i given to candidates in the past and gone something in return. brett: the rules have not apply to donald trump at all. that is largely because he is more of an icon representing a feeling across this country that people are frustrated and angry with politics as usual. i worked on the brexit debates in britain, and much of the same sentiment was there. i think that there is a large segment of voters who are using donald trump to take that out on the political system, so they

are willing to overlook some things that a typical politician would be held to. host: a piece in "the atlantic said, if you want to watch the debates the right way, turn the sound off and watch the body link which of the candidates. you brought up the famous moment where al gore literally moves into governor bush's space, and that became an iconic moment in the 2000 election. brett: absolutely. in 2004 in the first debate in miami, then-president bush was criticized for laying on the podium in his debate with john kerry. body language and how you say what you say matters significantly. research says it may be that audiences take as much as 65% of meaning from how you say what you say, not just what you say. earlier,hy what i said

hillary clinton has to pay attention to the presentational aspects of these debates, as well. she has performed poorly in prior debates. even in the commander-in-chief forum a couple weeks ago, if you turn the sound off and watch her, she wouldn't appear very open, likable, someone you would want to have a conversation with. donald trump smiles a lot, very big. he gets television. he understands the presentational aspects of the debate. she's got to raise her game. host: in advising president bush and senator mccain and governor romney, can a candidate over-prepare? what is the right balance? brett: i think a candidate can over-prepare in terms of reading briefing book. it's not an essay on its feet, and it's not jeopardy.

you've got to be able to sound like it is coming from the heart, not recite and from the head. it is very important that they not just study the briefing books but actually think about how they will present these arguments. and they have to relax. if you over prepare a candidate, you can get them tensed up. you have to find a way to keep a candidate lose. make sure they are relaxed going into the first debate. the first debate will be the most important. the first 30 minutes of the first debate of the most important 30 minutes of all the debates. host: one more moment. this is from january of this year. south carolina. the issue of new york values. ted cruz going after donald trump.

>> most people know exactly what new york values are. [laughter] you are from new york, he might not. the people of south carolina know. there are many wonderful working men and women in the state of new york. but everyone understands that the values in new york city are socially liberal, pro-abortion or pro-gay marriage, focus around money and the media. i can frame it another way, not a lot of conservatives come out of manhattan. i'm just saying. [laughter]

mr. trump: conservatives actually come out of manhattan, including william f. buckley and others. new york is a good place, it has great people. loving people. wonderful people. when the world trade center came down, i saw something that no place on earth could have handled more beautifully, more humanely to new york. two 110 story buildings come crashing down, i saw them come down. we saw more death and even the smell of death, no but he understood it. it was with us for months. the smell, the air. we rebuilt downtown manhattan and everybody in the world watched in everybody in the world looked new york and love new yorkers and i have to tell you, that was a very insulting statement that ted made. host: from this past january, that moment between ted cruz and donald trump. brett: that was probably donald trump's best from the primary.

that is the donald trump pc on monday then i think he is in for a good debate. that is what we have been seen over the last three weeks. donald trump has been much more disciplined on message or if he is able to be that disciplined in responding that he will have a good night. notice, he did not take that attack to the personal, there was no "lying ted." there was a very eloquent counterattack about new york and what it means to be a new yorker. that was an attack that they had been having in the press coming into the debate, ted cruz wanted to continue to litigate it and donald trump ended it. host: your own experience working with president bush, what was he like approaching debate. brett: concerned with studying policy books and being briefed on everything will issue an once we got through the first debate, he started to turn his attention

more towards the communicated aspects. -- communicative aspects. through much involved in studying and prepared. host: senator mccain? brett: he loved talking to the answers in arguments and angst that would happen. he would watch a lot of film. more relaxed. host: governor mitt romney? brett: a businesslike approach to debate prep. he would want things to be very formalized, talk through each strategy. he had a great team in place doing debate prep. political implications, policy applications. data necessary to feed into the data points. folks on the policy side were experts in foreign policy and domestic policy. >> a veteran of republican

campaigns, brent mcdonald. the president of his own firm, o'donnell and associates. thank you for your insight. >> thank you. >> we will turn our attention to hillary clinton. first, from our library. newshour.f the tbs this man has done 12 debates. moderator. he talked about the importance of these debates have in american politics. >> the presidential debates have become the only times during the presidential campaign where the candidates, usually two, sometimes three, are on the same stage at the same time talking about the same things. they come in october with the election pretty close, maybe a month or only a month or less away. the polls show that 90% or more of the people have artie made a decision as to who they are going to vote for.

for who they are going to vote decision, some of them are leaning and some are not in mostly what they want to do is the issues are on the table and people have decided whether they are in favor of social security lockbox is or whatever. all of those decisions have been made by the voters. what still remains to be seen and understood is if i like this person. does this person come over as, forget what the issues are, what if there is a crisis? what if there is another 9/11? what if there is some major catastrophe or crisis happening, how do you feel about this person? >> you call the book tension city because it is. these candidates have to make people like them is what you are saying. you spoke with bush, 41. george h.w. bush.

who said that the debates are ugly. i don't like them. why? >> he feels strongly that it is all show business. one debate was a 3% debate with 3-person debate with bill clinton and ross perot. he looked at his watch and said yeah, i looked at my watch and they are all over me. it does not have anything to do with issues. he said, i was looking at my watch because this thing was boring me. those kinds of things to the audience, it leaves an impression. impressionguage

an open word impression. from george h.w. bush's point of view, it is ridiculous to have so much riding on this debates. host: jim lehr of the pbs news hour and his book, "tension city." part of c-span2's book tv program available on our website. we continue our look into what to expect for the upcoming debates and we are joined with the editor-in-chief of think progress, he is talking about hillary clinton. moments in a debates, especially in today's youtube, social media generation, has a significant impact. can you follow up on that?

judd: this is true in the primary debates which is what i did in 2008. i helped prepare. i do think that the whole debate itself will be important because they were be tens of millions of people who will watch the whole debate which is not usually the case. what is going to happen is after those tens of millions of people watch, hundreds of millions will be exposed to two or three things that happened over the course of a couple of hours. either a good moment or bad moment someone was caught saying something that was not true. someone was caught in an awkward place where saying something that reinforces an existing narrative. this can have a real impact on the course of the campaign. host: in 2016, her appeal,

trustworthiness, key issues, you are in new hampshire the weekend before the new hampshire primary in 2008, this debate, courtesy of wmur, let's look at this. >> new hampshire voters seem to believe that you are the most experienced and most electable in terms of change, they seek senators obama and edwards as the agents of change. my question to you is this, what can you say to the voters of new hampshire on the stage tonight it,see your resume and like but are hesitating on the likability issue? they seem to like barack obama more. >> that hurts my feelings. [laughter] >> i'm sorry, senator. [laughter] >> i will try to go on. [laughter] >> he is very likable. i agree with that. i don't think i'm that bad.

>> you are likable enough, hillary. [laughter] >> i think this is one of the most serious decisions that the voters of new hampshire have ever had to make. i believe that the most important question is who is ready to be president on day one. host: judd, where were you when that moment occurred? >> i believe that took place at a college and they had the step set up in one of the classrooms with a tv just watching it. i think it was clear that that was an important moment in the debate. it was a really important moment in the campaign if you will recall. only a day or two before the voting occurred in new hampshire and hillary had just lost iowa and if she were to lose iowa and new hampshire back to back, probably would be the end. i think it was a moment that helped reconnect her to some of

the voters, maybe broke down some of the stereotypes of her not being a real person. it was a human moment and reinforced by president obama being a little bit more terse than he had intended to be. it contrasted with how she handled it. and i think that combined with a couple other things in the lead up to the election probably swung things back in hillary's favor, she ended up winning. host: can you remember if she was ready for that type of question? judd: i don't think that is a type of thing you'd typically

prepare for. you really can't. something like, why are you here likability numbers low can be something that comes up again and again. it is not the first time she answered that question. but that whole moment, the way it played out, from my recollection was not a scripted moment. in fact, if you try to script a moment like that, it would not come off very well. host: well, handicap if you would, what can we expect in the debate? the issue of credibility and trustworthy will come up in a number of areas and speed how should she handled that? judd: it is a tough question for you to answer, it is to say, why do these people feel this way about you. who knows? that if the actual answer. trying to express something genuine, trying to explain you really feel about it as she did there. why she is running is a related question. issues of trust between motivation.

if you can go into the to why you are running and what is motivating you. why you are try to put yourself in this position. i think that is probably the best you can do. host: i want to share with you one of the debates that took place courtesy of nbc news, the late tim russert asking the question, keep in mind, holy -- hillary clinton was still first lady at the time. get theon't we just deal done right now? i signed it, we can go sit down together and get the media here and we will make sure that this deal -- i'm happy to abide by anything that we all agree on. that's get it done now. no more wiggle room.

respond? want to >> i do want to respond. i had my that trip was a wonderful performance and you did a very well. i would be happy to when you give it a sign -- >> i wonder signature. everybody wants to see sign something that you said you were for. i am for it. i have not been at it you have been violated. do something important for america. america is looking at new york, show some leadership. >> this new radio ad from the remote the party is not part of your campaign. >> we are out of time. host: a couple things stand out, one candidate moving into the space of the other candidate and also just how far you think rick last year went and donald trump might go?

judd: i don't think he will move over to her podium. this did not work out well for lauzio. this is an example of what happens when you try to force a moment. he had going into this that he was good to force a decision from hillary clinton to sign this pledge about third-party influence in the campaign and he was just going to keep going. i think it backfired on him. -- trump is going to have an because he is very aggressive, does not seem to have a lot of self-awareness as far as how he comes off and it seems to revel in this projecting of extreme module image. i think strength is where he gets some of his appeal. i think the image of him crossing the line and belittling someone who is an admired figure, someone deserving of some respect, it could definitely backfire on him.

questin i asked brett republicann the aisle, how do you make these moments you rehearse? the one-liners, make them feel natural and not rehearsed. the audience -- judd: it is important to have a whole range of possibilities. an option that you have. and only pull the trigger if the right moment comes up. you don't know exactly what questions are asked. you may think there will be a large discussion on this topic and that topic does not come up. to give theneed candidate 10-15-20 different options that they are comfortable with and you only use the ones that present themselves. that way it can seem natural. and the candidate at that moment is going to revise and twist and adapt.

if they do that, it is natural. if you come in and say, i'm going to say this line and i will say it this way and this is going to be the moment in the debate, i think you're setting yourself up for failure. it is not that predictable. host: last november, the debate that took place in iowa and the issue of wall street and special interest came up, here's the exchange between hillary clinton and senator bernie sanders. >> i've never heard a candidate who has received huge amounts of money from oil, coal, wall street, the military-industrial complex, these campaign contributions will not influence me, i'm good to be independent. why do they make noise of -- millions of dollars of contributions?

they expect to get something. i'm running a campaign differently than any other candidate. we are relying on small campaign donors, 750,000 of them, $30 a piece. [applause] >> he basically used his answer to impugn my integrity, -- you know, not only do i have hundreds of thousands of donors, most of them small and i am proud that for the first time, a majority of my donors are women, 60% -- [applause] i represented york and i represented new york on 9/11 when we were attacked, where were we attacked? downtown manhattan where wall street is. i did spend a lot of time and effort helping to rebuild. that was good for new york and good for the economy in a way to rebuke the terrorists. >> another pivot moment between senator sanders and hillary

clinton and how she tried to turn on the issue. >> the perfect example of the reality that these debates are hard and it is happening in real time and things can start off ok and slip away. you have the answer. stopnk she was right to response. get a she started off really strong. she had a lot of female donors and people responded. i think she has a reasonable point to say, i represented new york, i'm going to have some backers who are associated with altered. my recommendation would become the let's go ahead and pivot to the substance of what you are proposing to do. i think she ran into trouble when she invoked that. 9-11. it is difficult because she's reacting in real-time. she probably created a moment that did not help her. i think she will be better prepared for it if it comes up again.

>> you advised hillary clinton in 2008. what was her approach, how did she study, how did you prepare? 2016?w is she doing it in judd: 2008, i will start there. i'm more capable. there are two sides of it, the staff side and the candidates side. a lot of preparation of the staff of trying to do the best you can and anticipate what is going to happen. i think that will be difficult with donald trump. he is pretty much off the seat of his pants and is not afraid to improvise. that makes preparation difficult. especially attacks. here is what he will attack you on here are some responses that have worked for you in the past. here are some information. that goes to the candidate and then you go to the sessions where you do these mock debates.

big debate, there might be more than one mock debate. maybe for the smaller debates, just one. i imagine they will be trying to anticipate and have some open the role of donald trump and get her into life situations so you can go through as many of the situations as you can in order to spot problems. this went wrong, here's what happened. host: from the outside looking in, how much more difficult is it for her preparing for donald trump is is another more traditional candidate, if you were debating mitt romney or barack obama? judd: it is immensely challenging. she's had a lot of experience in debate. we were involved in 25 and 2008, she did a number of, more than

10 this year. they have all been pretty substantive. obama and edwards, the other major candidate, pretty wonky. sanders wanted to stay on issues and not get sidetracked. i don't think trump is intending to have a detailed policy debate. i don't think he is capable of it and i think he knows that is a losing strategy. he is a very experienced television personality. he knows how to make television happen and make a compelling. -- it compelling. you can have that book with all the different policy positions and have all of the responses, i don't know if that will help you have a good debate against donald trump because i don't think he will bring much of that stuff up.

host: this from october, the issue of views. >> plenty of politicians you called on issues even some democrats believe you'd change your positions based on political expediency. you defended president obama's immigration policies and now you are saying it is too harsh. supported his trade deal and called it the gold standard and now you are against it. what you say anything to get --will you say anything to get elected? >> i've always spot for the same fires and principles but like most human beings, those of us who run for office, i do absorb new information and look at what is happening in the world. take big trade deals, i didn't say when i was secretary of state three years ago that i hoped it would be the gold standard. it was just finally negotiated last week. looking at it, it did not meet my standard. my standard for more new good jobs americans, raising wages for americans and i want to make sure that i can look into the

eyes of any middle-class american and say, this will help raise your wages and i concluded, i cannot. >> all due respect, the question is about political expediency. he told the crowd you take a backseat to know them when it comes to progressive dies. in ohio, you said you plead guilty to being moderate and centered, the change --do you change your identity based on who you're talking to? >> i have a range of views and they are rooted in my values and m experience. i don't take a backseat to anyone when it comes to progressive experience and progressive commitment. when i left law school, my first job was with the children's defense fund. for all to your sense, i have been focused on how we're going to unstuck that debt and make it possible for more children to have the greatest i had to be able to come from the grandfather of a factory worker and now asking the people of america to elect me president. >> are you a progressive or

moderate? >> i'm a progressive but i'm a progressive who likes to get things done. i know how to find common ground and stand my ground. i proved that in every position i have had. even dealing with republicans who never had a good word to say about me. we found ways to work together on everything from reforming theer care and adoption to the doctors program. i have a long history of getting things done. >> anderson cooper, one of the moderators. we pulled the exchange because clearly, she was ready for that question. >> it is a prototypical thing is something you can prepare for. the idea that you have flip-flopped or change your position on some issue and why. probably was not anticipating the basket of things altogether that anderson cooper presented, but you deftly have to be prepared individually -- definitely have to be prepared individually on those issues.

i think she handled it fairly well. she knew her history. she had an explanation. i think, i don't know, i was not involved this year, but i think at the end, you sort of have a moment where she is prepared in because she prepared, she can improvise her answer on being a progressive who wants to get things done. that was an effective counter to the premise of anderson's question which is that you are telling people different things. you are telling them you are a moderate, you are telling them you are a progressive. so, i think that was an example of the value of preparation and how it can prepare you to take on kind of a complex or a difficult question because you have the fact and you have some idea of where you want to go with it. in a privatewere

room with hillary clinton, what advice would you give her? what would you tell her? judd: i think there is a real danger in getting dragged into the kind of debate that donald trump is to have. i think he will want it to be more of a circus than a debate. i think it will be difficult to get to her strength and going into detail talking about things like what to do for health care or education. she has so much to say, i inc. troublemaking difficult for her to get there. want him to just say whatever, to make all sorts of accusations about her. i think you have to pick yours. on that to rebut the things he says and pick spots to deliver her message. to make sure that she can show people what she can bring to the table and not just always be attacking or countering.

to not let trump said the agenda. host: are you apprehensive or confident in how she will do? judd: i think it is a very big challenge. i think donald trump is prepared for this moment. not that he has done a lot of debate preparation or that he knows a lot about issues but he knows how to move a big tv audience and create something they will talk about. so, i think this presents a huge challenge for hillary for i don't think she has faced anything like it. i would have to say, i would be a little apprehensive. on her behalf, -- i think it will be interesting to see how it plays out. she will be thinking a lot about it. >> research director and a bit to hillary clinton and her 2008 presidential bid, currently the editor-in-chief of think progress. thank you. >> thank you. host: there are five moderators for the debates, the primary, we will talk to one of the moderators of one of the debates with her question to hillary clinton.

>> you have known donald trump a long time. you have seen what kind of campaign he is running. clinton, is donald trump a racist? sec. clinton: i'm going to follow my friend senator sanders, model, if i'm fortunate to be the democratic nominee, there be a lot of time to talk about him. i was the first one to call him out. i called him out when he was calling mexicans rapists, when he was engaging in rhetoric that i found deeply offensive. "basta!" and i am pleased that others are also joining in making clear that his