[captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] to tuesday's debate between senator tim kaine and governor mike pence, we look at past vice presidential debates tonight. starting with the 1984 debate with george h w bush and geraldine ferraro. >> we have been hearing that on the commercials, i expect the american people to believe i will become a one-woman truth squad. >> they deliver 21 and a half percent interest rates. they delivered interest rates that were right off the charts.

they delivered take home page, checks that were shrinking. we have delivered optimism. >> the 1988 debate. i have far more experience than many others. -- many others that sought the offense of vice president. i have its much experience in the office as jack kennedy did when he sought presidency. i served with jack kennedy, i knew jack kennedy. jack kennedy was a friend of mine. senator you do not know jack kennedy. >> and the 2008 by's presidential debate between joe biden and sarah palin. >> hockey moms across the nation, i think we need to band together and say, never again. the middle class needs relief, tax relief, they need it

now. the focus will change with barack obama. >> watch tonight at 8:00 eastern. listen at 8:00 p.m. eastern on this c-span radio app. >> c-span's washington journal, live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. coming up sunday morning, washington post congressional reporter with the latest analysis of senate races and how the clinton and trump candidacies affect the ballot. author paul taylor talks about his book. and harvard institute of politics director, will discuss issues important to millennials. there views of campaign 2016 and the voting history. he sure to watch c-span's washington journal sunday mornings. join the discussion.

>> hoping to feel -- filled the seat being vacated by mike pence. erik cole come, democrat john great and libertarian rex bell. this is about an hour. >> good morning, and welcome to the indiana debate commission's first debate of the general election season. we are coming to you from lawrence north high school in marion county, indiana. have three candidates competing for the position of governor. currently held by make pants, whois running -- mike pence is running on the vice presidential ticket. the winner will go on to serve as indiana's 51st state

governor. web albright, i am proud to be your moderator. i am a political science professor at the university of indianapolis, as well as the host of wic ours positively politics. politics will debate about the issues that are important to voters. particularly those for education. audience here is composed of students, teachers and administrators from several school districts. this is because this is also partially a civics lesson on the important that debates -- importance that debates service on the electoral process. partnership with the state department of education, the secretary ofd -- state as well as the indiana bar association. students around the state had the opportunity to submit

questions about issues that concern them. some of those questions will be right here this morning. all of the questions have been approved by the debate commission. none of the questions have been shared in advance with any candidate. i would like to add that these discussions about debate and the electoral process are timely, given that last night was the first presidential debate of the general election cycle. today is national voter registration day. elections are a timely topic. i would like to introduce the candidates. john great is running on the democratic party ticket. he is a former indiana house speaker. [applause] rex bell is running on the libertarian ticket. he is a small business owner.

[applause] and eric holcomb is running on the republican party. he is indiana's lieutenant governor. [applause] before we engage in to defeat i want to stay a little bit about the importance of debates. that you arelad here today joining us in this conversation. we have had debates since the beginning of mankind. every since we have had opinions, we have had arguments. ever since we have had power, we have also had politics. when we think of the classic, debates, wecan think of two important moments in american history. the first one stems back to around 160 years ago. when a young lawyer from the state of illinois thought to

unseat his states income bit senator for a place in the u.s. senate, americans were captivated by a series of seven debates at -- amongst the two candidates. the year with 1858. the incumbent was senator stephen douglas. scrappy buter was a eloquent man named abraham lincoln. the lincoln douglas debate marks an important moment in american history. a center on the question of slavery and southern secession. and though the country did not know it then, we were on the verge of the civil war. realize that this was before tv and radio. despite the fact that many americans could not physically be at the debates, they were still following along with what was going on. despite the fact that abraham he was unable to convince his state legislator that he was the best person for the senate.

before the 17th amendment, it was the state legislator, not the voters determined who would be the state's representation in the senate. the hearts andin minds of americans across the country, who were following along with the debates, reading the analysis and the transcripts in their local newspapers. the other important moment in american debating history comes a century later. in fact, exactly 102. in the 1960's, more and more americans had a television set. television,he visual media in the 1960's presidential debate was very important for voters. despite the fact that most tvs only played three stations, and they often played very similar news, americans love to television. i think we can agree some things never really change. debate,960 presidential you had the incumbent vice president under dwight

nixon and arichard junior one term senator from massachusetts known as john kennedy. important thatst these debates were televised, but it was the way in which the candidates prepared that was influential. campaigned right up until the campaign time. he was tired and he looked exhausted. he also refused stage makeup. under the bright hot lights, he looked pale and sweaty. quite frankly, uncomfortable. .ontrast that to kennedy he was tan, he was comfortable, he had taken time off and he looked relaxed. after the series of three americanse questions -- pollsters question americans of who they thought one. those watching on the television set said kennedy.

the importance of visual media of television, being able to not only read the transcript or listen on the radio, you could actually see them and their facial shoes. it was very influential. we still have televised debates this day. they are important in terms of our understanding as voters and our perception of the candidates. i think if you fast forward to present day, 2016, we are no shortage of debates. sometimes they seem like we emphasize the excitement, the entertainment over the education. as being think of them informative, they are more of a reality show. similar to a sitcom, the traditional drama. if we are looking at debates and how we are missing a major intata -- component, valuable piece that they provide for the voter who pays attention. and seeallow us to hear

the candidates as they explained their experience. they describe their credentials. they tell us about what they will provide us if they -- if we elect them into office. most importantly, they respond to the questions of me and you, the citizens who will be ultimately voting in the election. i like debates because i think they are more influential compared to a 32nd or 62nd television ad. have are scripted, you makeup, stylist, rehearsals, you can do multiple takes. much more organic, it's natural. you are getting those basic responses. i think most important with a debate, it allows you, the voter , the confidence to know that when you are marking your ballot this november 8, you are marking it knowing you like the candidate you are supporting. that candidate not only represents you and your values,

but you also believe they are the best candidate to lead our state, or our country. at this time i would like to go through the positions are he quickly. the candidates positions on stage, in order of which they respond to questions will determine by a lot from the debate commission. once i ask a question, each candidate will have the opportunity to answer for 60 seconds. then have ate will 32nd rebuttal opportunity. if the candidate exceeds the amount of time given for his or her response, i will have to .olitely interrupt each candidate will be given an opportunity to discuss -- addressed the topic of their choice. we are calling this the lincoln-douglas debate session. there can be no props or prepared notes. at this time, each candidate will have the opportunity to

further introduce themselves and make a one minute opening statement, starting with mr. gray. -- gregg. john gregg: thank you for being here. think the administration and the students for letting us come gregtoday. i appreciate it. this election is so important and so critical to people that are involved in education, which is every one of the students watching across the state. as a election is about the future of indiana. we will be talking about the economy, and about the need to raise the wages in the state of indiana. we will be talking how you cannot do that without having an education and skilled labor force and the state of indiana. we will then be talking about our state's infrastructure. , cleands for bridges water, cultural trails, broadband connectivity.

we will also be talking about the state's drug epidemic and how it is time we deal with it. >> and now we will hear from mr. bell. nice thing about going second, i do have to worry about forgetting to pick up the mic. [laughter] i would like to think the staff in the students for inviting us here. this is a very important election. i voted in a lot of them and this is an exciting one. to thetional, right down state, right down to local. for important, a lot of decisions to be made. we have seen the growth of government over the years and how it is getting more and more involved in our lives, in our education system. somell have to make decisions about how we will handle it, how we can keep it sustainable. offer some good solutions for that.

i hope that you will all pay attention, study, make your own decisions, and hopefully decide that we have the correct answers. next we will from mr. holcomb. >> what an exciting moment -- morning it is. it has been an exciting year for some of us. i have had the real honor of serving in different capacities weather was in the united states navy, serving as former governor or current united states senator, are now as your lieutenant governor. i have had the opportunity to try to lead organizations that are attempting to make more opportunity for more people. i have been honored by that thisce and that is what campaign has been all about. creating more opportunity for more people across the state of indiana. this campaign is about the future of the state of indiana, but more specifically it is about your future.

it's a big part of where our state ends up, when i think about where we were 10 years ago and where we will be a decade from now. i am excited to discuss the issues that will affect that direction. let's go to our first question. asking is samantha, a senior at lawrence north who brings up an important issue many students address as a concern. how will you go about standardized testing? >> i am very proud that we have talked about how we have to get back to letting teachers teach. part ofhat teachers are the solution and not the problem. with that said, teaching is a test of what teachers have been forced to do. many years ago i was in the legislator, i voted against the

i step testing. i think it is a flawed test. i am all for accountability, but i think we need to have the better way where you take the test and you get feedback much quicker. the way it is now, you take the test this year and you are in another great before the teacher gets any feedback. by that time it is much too late to help you or the teacher. i think we need quicker feedback, but we still have to have accountability and have teachers and local school boards get involved in the process, rather than shut out. we would not have had this current problem in indiana. >> mr. bell. rex bell: we have addressed many times that the testing affects the i step test. it is very expensive. i think in 2015 they made in estimate of what it would cost to run it for the next two years

and it was 38 million dollars. as john pointed out, schools still do not have the results from those test from last year. what we would like to see happen is what is happening now. the local schools are developing their own way of determining the tests and the outcome of it. certainly, we have always been in favor of returning more local control to the parents and the teachers and the school boards. the eye test is a test that needs to be set aside and turned , parents,s i said teachers and the local boards. i think there is a universal agreement. i have not met a single person on the campaign trail that is in favor of continuing the i step. .t is going away we need to replace it with a test that is fair and accurate. as was stated, that we get results that quicker. graded here and fast so that we

know what you know and what you don't know, and if you are prepared for the next level. know, butt just to this is what the workforce of the 21st century is counting on. absolutely we need to be testing, monitoring progress, and the i step needs to move aside. we will replace it with something that is much more efficient with quicker returns. fromr next question comes a sophomore at arsenal tech high school. >> how committed are used to helping undocumented high school and college students? should immigrants be able to qualify for tuition rates at colleges and universities? >> all students deserve, and are

provided in our constitution ant they are provided with education. our tax plan that we have presented will collect tax money in this state, not just certain property owners and that sort of thing. i think that every student deserves an education. when indiana is offering that, a figure should be available to all students. john gregg: i am happy to -- rex bell: i am happy to entertain this topic. i am happy to look at it in the status of the student, but i have not seen the desire in the general assembly. it has not moved through the committee process in recent years. >> in indiana, the legislator and all of us here involved in

this, we grasp these problems and tackle them. one of the problems that we have is that that is not happening at the federal level. that ision and all of something that takes place at the federal level. more aboutare fighting, arguing and not getting along, it holds back on the states. this is a tough decision. and have traveled the state listen, and as a former president at the -- at a university, i have had people come up to me and say they don't remember living anywhere else other than in the state of adiana but yet they are not legal citizen. this is something that the legislator needs to grapple with. they have been talking about -- but i think we have to look at it by -- at a case-by-case basis. happeningat what is to students like yourself, if you are in that category -- category, it is very ends there to you and is no fault of your

own. will hear a question from aaron from columbus east high school. >> if you are elected, what will you do to ensure that the arts programs continue to be encouraged in schools? be a big champion of them. i attended hanover college, which is a liberal arts school. i received a wide range of schooling at pike high school. proud pike red devil. this is part of the total package of students learning. while we have to make sure that students are properly equipped with the 21st century workforce, we need to get more stem programing into our schools. it needs to be a more well-rounded program. john gregg: i love that

question. i think we have to realize that stem come -- stem, as of mr. is important. half of all jobs today in indiana requires some knowledge of it and it is estimated that three fourths will require more knowledge and awareness of it. a lot of people have started talking about steam were we had the aid for the arts. as someone who is also a liberal arts major, i think it is very important. the well-rounded and is of the education. , as i same standpoint have traveled the state, what i hear from business leaders and from meiners is that we need a skilled workforce. with ours by working boards, by working with our teachers, the parents and civics leaders about being inclusive and listening to everybody. it is listening, learning and making a decision. certainly, a diversity

in education is very important. we need tok that remember, as we turn control of education back to the parents, back to the teachers, back to boards, everyol school might not decide on the same thing. i do not think this is something we want the state to hand down and say, you have to do exactly this, this and this. , you know, parental choices of what the local boards are able to decide and teachers. it may be more important to some groups and not to others. that is something we would allow parentsl schools, the and the teachers to decide on. that is not something we would want to hand down from the state. i would like to offer each candidate a 32nd rebuttal. we will go in the same order in which we first answered the question. john gregg: i will tell you the

other reason -- rex bell: i will iyyip the -- eric holcomb: will say you other reason for why it needs to be included. if you are inspired by a certain discipline or a certain topic and there is an outlet for you to express your interest and grow in that field, we need to make sure that we are churning out more scientists, physics, to meet the workforce demands of the 21st century. having said that, it is not for everyone. john gregg: i think the arts, so many times, people do not know how to define them. more reading, writing and having appreciation for culture. it does mean the ability to communicate verbally and in the written way. this is so important because we do need stem and we have to have that for the jobs of the future.

we also have to have an appreciation of the arts. it goes back to having a well-rounded education, which i think is something we all support. certainly, though education isin important. i will not make that decision for you. that is something the government should not be making. that should be up to the parents. as i have said before, in a school that offers that, and that is what you desire for your students, that is great. it is not up to the state to step in and say this is what you are going to teach. when we get into that area, thank you. >> i would like to ask the next question. in indiana we are facing a shortage of teachers. i would like to ask the candidates what would you do to ensure that indiana has a sufficient number of teachers to educate our foolish or children -- hoosier children.

the first thing we need to realize is that we created this teacher shortage. the last fewis in years by the way we have demeaned those in the education profession. we have done everything to flawed testing systems. we need to acknowledge that. now, we need to attract and retain the quality teachers we have. we need to encourage and remind young adults, people like yourselves going to college the importance of teaching. it is critical that we attract people to this, but we can only do it by being inclusive and having teachers be part of the by having local control with our boards and our administrators. this is what is important. if we do this, there will be more people going into education . it has to start with showing

respect and recognizing that those who are running our schools are part of a solution and not the problem. >> mr. bell. rex bell: certainly retracting and retaining teachers is important. we need to ask ourselves, why is that. as mr. gray pointed out, the testing that the government has pushed onto us across this a, across the country, how can we remedy that. we can remedy that by turning the power back over to the local boards, local teachers and local parents. i think also, there is a wage problem there. how the money is distributed, when they take our tax money and hand it back to us, i know recently, i heard a tory about a school that had lay off personnel, but they also had to spend money on a capital project building something they did not need in fear of losing

that money. if we turn the control back over to the local board, back over to the parents, back over to the teachers, he can decide where that money needs to be spent. wages might be more important to some than others. it is important to keep in mind that there is a shortage of what is estimated to be about 60,000 needed teachers across the country. indiana is not of the unique position, but we can take care of our own in indiana. it does start with -- treating as ifachers with respect they were role models. i would not be standing here if it were not for the teachers influence in my life, each and every step along the way. withst insist on working the locals, with the school preparations to make sure that the money we are investing in, invest 54% of our total budget

through 12. we are second in the nation in that commitment. that is a good thing. we need to make sure we continue on that path. investing in the teachers that invest in you. we need to make sure that money is getting into the classroom, to the teacher and to the student. holcomb.here>> thank you, mr. i would like to offer each candidate a 32nd rebuttal program. -- 30 second rebuttal program. rex bell:'s i would like to consider each of you to do. sadly, talk with your teachers, and not we, but this problem has been created over the last 10 years. flat salaries, telling teachers have two teachings -- as opposed to letting them teach. a very noble profession. i am the first in my family to go to college.

>> mr. bell. rex bell: you know, everybody has a good idea on how to fix it. the problem we see so much of the time is after the election, people run for office, they say this is what we are going to do. i would suggest take a look at what has happened, how has it been handled for the last 100 years. and as i say, i think we have better ideas. the new ideas you will hear from all parties before the election, you will only hear it after the election from one party. it is not just about the dollars and cents. we increase k-12 funding for hundred $70 million. we have done one billion dollars over the past 10 years. it is not just about allocating more money, it is where it ends up. we will encourage more teachers and pay them appropriately to

going to the profession and have an influence on your life and the direction of our state. >> thank you. now we go to another question from a student. this is a junior at shortridge high school. >> how can students directly engage with government leaders to inspire change in communities ? >> what you are doing right now. get involved, talk to people. there are so many people, especially young people, not involved at all in politics. the moderator mentioned something along the lines of just because you don't take interest in politics doesn't mean the politicians will take an interest in you. the somebody is going to run this thing. get involved, run for office, write letters, go talk to the people. by beingare doing now

here today, taking an interest, it is the most important thing you can do. you have to pay attention. you will be the ones paying for all the decisions that we make. eventually it will come back on you. i think you are doing a good job being here today and paying attention, thank you. great question. if you want to get a politicians attention, write a letter to the editor, call them out by name. i promise they will read it or someone will send it to them. you have a real advantage today. you have an app to get someone's attention from the privacy of wherever you are where you are. i would encourage you to be engaged, volunteer on a campaign, apply to be an intern in someone's office, whether going to a town hall meeting, the mayor's office or the local congressional office or senator's office or governor's office.

engage your and take initiative. say, i am interested in my future and i will help drive it. i guarantee you will get the attention of who you are meeting with. absolutely. you are dealing with three people who have always followed in politics from a young age. exactly what you are doing. study the issues. i know how much you have to study. you spend hours reading, but read, talk, follow, check out the webpages. mine is greggforgovernor.com. do volunteer for campaigns. we are very proud that this summer, we had over 40 volunteers in that indianapolis office of college-age students. we had high school students. they get out to about a dozen telephonehelp us make calls a knock on doors. i encourage you to do that. the more you are involved, the more you know about the issues.

it will help all of us be better citizens. thank you very much. that is a great question. >> each candidate will have the opportunity for 30 second rebuttal, starting with mr. bell. rex bell: i am not sure there is anything to rebut. we all agree you need to be involved. i appreciate your out here doing it, and just hang right in their. watching us, because we will be watching you. eric holcomb: i would say after you visit john's website, go to forindiana.com. [laughter] i would also encourage you to diversify your interests. when you are volunteering, offering your services, because there is only one candidate, but there is an army of support beneath them that fuel the whole organization. you should meet everyone in those jobs to determine for yourself when you were up on this stage running for governor

if we are doing our job right. i want to encourage you to come back for my webpage. we have a joke at my campaign. it takes a village to raise a candidate, and like mr. holcomb said, he is true. there are so many people you see the three of us standing up here. there are countless, hundreds of people that make all the difference, helping us to prepare for defeat, the issues. i have talked and listened to hundreds of people across the state in the last year and a half. moderator: thank you. the next question is a from isaiah gray, a sophomore. isaiah gray: how would you just job opportunities over the summer especially for the economically deprived areas? moderator: mr. holcomb can

answer first. eric holcomb: were you referring to the school year? repeat the question for my benefit. isaiah great: how would you expand job opportunities for the youth during the school year and during the summer, especially youth from economically deprived areas? eric holcomb: that is a great question, and is the way of the future right now. everywhere i go, talking with folks in the building trade for the boston scientific or two coke pharmaceutical, the people building jet engines, these new companies, the high-tech companies that are coming to the state of indiana, the jobs that are the real high wage jobs and the way of the future, they are looking for internships. they are coming here because they know they can reach into our high schools and to our rural class universities and get you involved and groom you so you are not just graduating from high school and entering some

occupation that may be a not be inspiring. but it is something you are passionate about and love to do. the companies of the future are looking for that commitment, not just your commitment, but your commitment to them. guidance counselors can be radically important in high schools. i would encourage you to be working not just -- moderator: thank you, mr. holcomb. now we go to mr. gray. john gregg: i have not had one woman or man say anything about the tax structure. they do talk about the need for skilled employees. there is a great book i would encourage you to read. i know you have a lot of stuff to read, but it is called "talent." the author said in the next five years in indiana, we could get up to 300,000 living wage jobs. we have got to have the talent

in order to fill them. that is where education comes in. it is so important, better aligning education. letting students now what jobs are out there. it means more guidance counselors or you can get more direction as you are going through school. i have heard superintendents say the three e's, and pulled -- enrolled, employed or enlisted. discussion, and that is what we are going to do. moderator: thank you, mr. greg. this rebel? -- mr. bell? rex bell: it is important for students to have jobs. as far as finding those jobs, the schools need to work with the local businesses that are looking for employees. we can get into the point of the businesses are helping train students for the type of job they are needing to fulfill.

so i think there is a partnership therebetween the private community and the schools that can benefit all students, pless benefiting the businesses. it is one of those when win situations -- win-win situations. we have a lot of opportunities by joining those groups together to provide jobs for students. moderator: the candidates will have an opportunity for 30 second rebuttal beginning with mr. holcomb. eric holcomb: rethink about long-term, i mentioned at the outset knowing where we are now, knowing where we were 10 years and looking out 10 years, we will replace one million new job openings, employees, over the next 10 years. one million new people, folks retiring, dropping out of the workforce, etc. that is where you come in.

if you can in mers yourself in out of school activities -- moderator: mr. holcomb, thank you. john gregg: i encourage you to check out our web plan. plan.ave a 35 point we talk about economic development for young people, training. that is a key place to go to. we cross-reference with the education program. andalk about job training better aligning those. i know you are busy. check that out, especially the part on the summer youth program. you will find it real helpful. moderator: mr. bell. rex bell: it takes me 30 seconds to stand up, so it does not give me a lot of's time to speak. -- a lot of time to speak. pay attention, get out and look for jobs. the businesses there, we can coordinate schools and the businesses and provide more

opportunities for jobs. i have got a couple seconds left. trexbell.com. moderator: now we come to what we call the lincoln douglas debate section. mr. bell will go first and will talk to the topic of his choice. mr. holcomb will follow on the same topic for one minute. mr. gregg will then also speak on the topic for one minute. then mr. bell will close it out with 30 seconds of rebuttal. the other candidates will then he gone there topic of choice following the normal rotation and format. i will open first with mr. bell. one thing that i look at as i have been in forums and debates and talking to people around the date, -- around the state, something we will see in this election, we will see a lot of solutions that basically

amount to trying to get the government to fix something that the government fouled up in the first place. we will see a lot of that in education especially. we offer a solution of turning control back over to the parents , back over to the teachers, back over to the local schools. we brought this up, and i for the other parties, along and say, yes, that is an excellent idea, that is what we should do, but we are not convinced after the election that is what will happen. we are still going to see more government intervention where it should not be. government should be collecting the money for schools, handing it back to the locals and letting them decide. moderator: thank you, mr. bell. mr. holcomb? eric holcomb: we were most recently rated the fourth freest state in the country. i am proud of that. when i first came to office or

into the governor's office working for mr. daniels, we had scaled back the state employee rolled back to the nixon years you mentioned at the outset. we have proven you can do more with less if you grow the economy, is the pike is bigger, if you are bringing in more revenue. so we are in strong fiscal shape. we, especially when you compare us to the competition. we are on the right track. we just need to keep going. john gregg: our education plan is pretty simple, pretty straightforward. it is prekindergarten, optional for the parents and the students, but universal so all students can take advantage of it. it is what our business leaders and teachers tell us we need. the second thing is to stop teaching to the test, let teachers teach again. make it something with instant feedback were quicker feedbacks

so you can learn what the issues are. and then it has to do with aligning the job market and school education. we do that by being inclusive and giving local control back. then is about college, aching college affordable and accessible. that is a real tough challenge. i know that as a former president of the university. these are the issues we have to deal with. it is prekindergarten, stop teaching to the test, better align the curriculum, and make college or post-high school training credential he important and acceptable. moderator: mr. bell, you have 30 seconds for a rebuttal. rex bell: 30 seconds isn't very long, but indiana is in good shape when we talk about surplus. we haveto remember pensions, public pensions underfunded by billions of dollars, so we don't is sincerely consider that something you can just blink away.

and also pre-k, i know now they are talking voluntary, but eventually we will come around to where it is mandatory. we would like to see stronger families. moderator: thank you, mr. bell. mr. holcomb? you may speak for one minute on the topic of your choice, and we will continue and that procession. eric holcomb: again, when i first came into this service with former governor mitch daniels, we ushered indiana's comeback. we turned the state around, we quit spending more money than we were taking in. points as my friend rex out, we sit on a triple-a credit rating. indo have $2.4 billion reserve that maintains that credit rating. we have 4.5% unemployment rate. our wages are going up in the right direction year after year. we are on the right path. i don't cite those figures to throw them out.

i cite them to illustrate what a good position this is so we can make record investments into infrastructure, education. so many other states are in the opposite position, and we are competing against them. when we invest in you, more in you, we expect more. what we are going to find is our workforce, our talent we attract and grow and grew here is going to make the difference. moderator: thank you, mr. holcomb. mr. gray. eg. john gregg: hoosiers are working harder and harder taking home less. our per capita income in the last few years has slid to where we are 38. that doesn't mean anything to you, but let me take it home to you. that means a family for living here in lawrence township makes $7,000 a year less. that is $600 a month. that affects your family. that affects the close you are wearing, food you eat.

butan do better in indiana, we have got to focus on the economy, we have got to be open-minded, we have got to be inclusive, we have got to admit we have got bank in what expense? legacy infrastructure. look at our schools, community. at what expense? when my roof leaks, i fix it. i think we have a leaky roof in indiana. moderator: mr. bell. rex bell: certainly when we talk , that ises understandable. of course we also need to understand the cost of living in indiana is lower than it is in other states. my son moved to san diego, and he told me a story. he told me he moved out of all of ranch, he went from being the richest man in all of ranch, mississippi -- olive ranch,

mississippi to the poorest man in san francisco. certainly we need more jobs, education. plan to get need a more businesses in here so that when there is more business, there are more jobs where people can compete for jobs. wages go up. we think indiana has, needs some major tweaking, and we think we are the people to do that. you, mr. bell.k mr. holcomb, you have the opportunity for a 30 second rebuttal. eric holcomb: when we talk about wages coming into this service in 2005, we were hovering around $17 an hour. now we are over $21 an hour, so we are going in the right direction. so during that big recession of 2008, 2009, we did get down $.17, but we shot back up. now, because we are strengthened

and diversified, we are attracting the sales of forces and genesis. we are outpacing job growth. moderator: thank you. mr. gregg, you have one minute to the topic of your choice. john gregg: i would like to tell you a little bit about me. i have done different things in my life. i have had public sector, private sector and academic experience. bob, a wonderful man, franco bennett, they served in the legislature as speaker of the house. i am proud of that. during the time i was speaker of the house, i am proud every feet of legislation that landed on the governor's desk had republican and democrat support. i worked in small business. i helped create jobs. i worked for 240 500 companies 500he energy -- two fortune

companies in the energy field. i have dealt with many, many young people from this area and know how to take, bring people together, take the best ideas from democrats, republicans and independents and move forward. moderator: thank you, mr. gregg. mr. bell? rex bell: a little bit about i am a small business owner, i started contracting in 1974. i have been surviving despite government for 42 years. i know what the regulations do, what the restrictions that they place on us. when government tells you how you are going to live your life, they take your money and then put it back in education, they say these are the restrictions you have to follow. i know what that places on it. i know people are capable of making their own decisions, and

that is the type of government we would like to bring back. a government that protects you from force and fraud and other than that allows you to make decisions about your lifestyle and education. moderator: thank you, mr. bell. mr. holcomb? eric holcomb: i love this topic. this has been part of idna my entire life -- my dna my entire life. we have been successful in that, in the governor's office over the years. i can cite a few examples whether it is property tax reform where he cut property taxes for bringing together strange bedfellows. you hear that in the political arena a lot. it was my job to reach out to the labor community and the business community. i was going to some offices, people would say, don't sit down, you will not be here that long. after the course of the breaking the ice and engaging in conversation, we were able to get a deal done because we both

laid all of our cards on the table faceup, very transparent, and said, this is about the future. this is about the next generation. that is how we moved the state forward each and every year since. you know, i want to was reallyeone who important. iran four years ago, closest race -- i ran four years ago. my wife asked me in november of 2014, she said, do you want to be governor or do you want to serve as governor? if it is about being governor, the title and the trappings, that is not what you ought to do. if it is about serving, having a servant's heart and bringing this together -- .oderator: thank you, mr. gregg i would like to ask a question that is important to me as a professor and is important to the students in the room.

, almostreat recession every state, including indiana, cut support for higher education. when the need to maintain a qualified workforce, should the state increase cost of college, where this far outpaced inflation? we begin with mr. holcomb. eric holcomb: we absolutely need to be committed to world-class universities and colleges, private and public. this is a real asset in the state of indiana went job creators around the world are looking where to locate. they factor in our university level courses and the output that comes from that. so absolutely we have to be committed to this. the exciting thing is that education commission put out a college value index. i would encourage you to see it. it literally scored, and it will help students considering what that next step is, what path

they want to choose, whether dame, at wgu, notre hanover college, we offer a diverse portfolio when it comes to next steps. if you started college and take a break, i would encourage you to finish. that is the biggest redactor of where you will end up. -- predictor of where you will end up. laura albright: thank you, mr. holcomb. i have some experience in this. we need to incentivize colleges to go out and seek or scholarships and financial aid. that is out there. they work with the philanthropic communities and the federal government to get more. we need to look at the matrix. right now we fund ivy tech the same way we run institutional research places like perdue. we also need to borrow an idea that a former governor and

president of purdue university, governor daniels, has done. i think it is important we see what he has done that we might be able to adapt to the other universities. i think it is time we have those discussions in those three areas. rex bell: certainly we need to encourage higher education. i think we need to consider the fact that in indiana, you can go to a public college, community college. i'm not talking about your room and board and that sort of thing, but you can get an associates degree for $8,000. you can get a four year degree for $16,000 to $20,000. it is very affordable. we start adding room and board, it gets a little out of hand that way. but you are in a situation in indiana where you can get an affordable education if you are

not willing to invest $4000 a year in your education, why would we expect the taxpayers to do that? i think we need to encourage people to attend. we also need to accept the fact that people have to take on their own responsibility. certainly if we could get a handle on public governments loaning out -- laura albright: we have the opportunity for 30 seconds rebuttal. eric holcomb: yes, we absolutely need to encourage our higher education institutions to hold the line when it comes to spending and remain competitive. governor mitch daniels, former governor mitch daniels now president of purdue has froze tuition for the last five years, and has encouraged his competitors to do the same and respond in like mind. that kind of leadership is critical, but we also need to make sure starting at your level that we are getting you on the right path to that you do --

laura albright: thank you, mr. holcomb. mr. gregg. john gregg: i think this is a situation where you realize college is expensive. we need to change our mindset a little also. four year degree, absolutely, they are out there, but don't forget, there is two-year apprentice there is programs. there is so many things out there where you can be a contributing member of society and have a great paying job. i want to thank you. keep that in mind. four years is not for everybody, but there is a lot of other opportunities. laura albright: thank you, mr. gregg. rex bell: certainly freezing tuition is commendable, but i also think we can get into a situation where we can lower nowion from where it stands . because of the federal government involvement with the loans, that has encouraged a lot

of colleges to raise prices because they knew there was no problem raising the funds. we have a lot of different options. there is no magic button, but we can do better than freezing college tuition and lowering. laura albright: i want to thank everyone for joining us today in the debate. gentlemen, i would like to thank you for sharing the stage talking about these important issues in education. i would like to thank all of you for watching and listening. i would like to thank wfyi, lawrence ville high school and the numerous affiliates and supporters. we had multiple debates coming up, including those for u.s. senate and another governor debate, and i want to remind our viewers you can submit questions to the indiana debate commission website at indiannadebate.com.

please register to vote before the october 11 deadline as well as vote on the november 8 general election. i am laura albright. on behalf of the indiana debate commission and the indiana kids election, i hope you have a wonderful rest of your tuesday. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] nation electsthe the next president, will we have the first foreign-born first lady or first gentleman? we get into the personal lives and impact of every first lady in american history. this is a companion to the well regarded biography series. the leading first lady's historians speak. each chapter has brief biographies of 45 presidential spouses and archival photos. first lady's, in paperback, published by public affairs, now