mccain and democratic challenger, representative ann kirkpatrick. pbs and the "arizona republic" host this debate. >> good evening and welcome to this special u.s. senate 2016 election debate between john mccain and ann kirkpatrick. this is a joint effort brought to you by arizona pbs and the arizona republic. i am ted simons and joining me to moderate this debate is yvonne wingett sanchez. we are broadcasting to you live in the downtown arizona

campus. we are also joined by radio listeners. and tonight's debate is also being broadcast in southern arizona on a to z central and on facebook live at cronkite news. viewers across america are watching as well on c-span. you can also join the conversation on twitter. tonight, we will hear from candidates competing to represent arizona in the u.s. senate. this debate is an open exchange of ideas, an opportunity for give and take. as moderators, we will try to make sure that all sides get a fair shake, but there are a few ground rules. once we ask the candidate a question, they will have 90 seconds to answer without interruption. the other candidate then gets 45 seconds for a rebuttal without interruption. then, we will have up to an additional two minutes on that

topic. at theat the end of the debate,h candidate will have one minute for closing statements. topics were chosen by journalists, which include a to z central.com. we will also include questions from you, the public, via social media and the public insight network. let's now meet the candidates. john mccain was elected to the senate in 1986 and is seeking to his sixth term. he was a republican party nominee for president in 2008. kirkpatrickann has represented the district since 2013. he also held the same seat from 2009 to 2011. he previously served in the arizona house of representatives from 2005 to 2007. earlier, we drew numbers to see

who gets the first question and that honor goes to senator mccain. >> senator mccain, you have complained about congressional gridlock. failed toas consistently pass a budget in recent years and more than 75% of americans disapprove of the job congress is doing. you have been part of this congress for many years. why do you want to return? sen. mccain: i want to return because there is so much to do, whether it be unlocking this gridlock and congress, as we have in the armed services committee. we almost unanimously put out a bill to protect the men and women serving in the military. and it is almost always unanimous. we need to do a lot more of that. we also need to reach across the aisle more often. we know sequestration is harming the men and women serving this country. just of all, i am running on my record and my service to the state of arizona and america. taking care of the

problems and issues that confront the state of arizona, whether it be a fish hashe hashy or the crossing down in yuma, or whether it is keeping the air force base. is notcontributed and it an accident that i am reviewed as one of the foremost leaders in congress. not only on national security, but for the good of the state of arizona. i am proud of my record. i will continue to be known as the maverick and i will continue to be fighting my own party when necessary and also, through tried to form the coalitions i have done as the chairman of the armed services committee, and on many other issues i have been involved in. i have a long history of a college men's and i am running a

accomplishments. thank you, senator. congresswoman? rep. kirkpatrick: i think we should have three two year terms and two six year terms in the senat.e -- in the senate. if you do those back to back, int is a total of 18 years washington. that is enough. we need to clear the way for new ideas washington to bust through that gridlock. what we use now is going to be obsolete in 10 years. let's have a term limit. tim: thank you, congresswoman. senator, this question is from eric up in to some. -- this is from erica in tuscon. how will you work across the aisle to make sure policy is passed and we stay out of

stalemates? sen. mccain: first, the issue on term limits. the voters determine term limits. at one time, i think they term limited congresswoman kirkpatrick and she came back and many people are glad she did. is,the most important thing you have to have the knowledge and the background to make things happen. i have the years of experience in the military. inave years an of experience traveling all over this state, from yuma, two different parts of our state of arizona where i know the people and i know the issues. we are going to have a mine in superior thanks to language i put in the authorization bill, which will then provide 25% of america's copper supply and hire thousands of people. 0 isreason why the a1

flying in combat is because a major the air force cadet retire them. it is experience and knowledge that leads to effectiveness and you have to have the respect of your colleagues. tim: but the question was working across the aisle. sen. mccain: on the armed services committee, we have always turned out a bill for 53 years now. that is the only bill that gets through the congress. worklicans and democrats together for the men and women serving this nation and for the good of the country. that is one of my proudest accomplishments, our ability to help the men and women serving to defend this nation. congresswoman, how would you envision working with a president trump? rep. kirkpatrick: i was born and raised on the white mountain. my mother's family where ranchers and might father's family were democratic businessman. interestinganderso

get-togethers. but at the end of the day, we were all family, arizonans, americans. i have a unique ability to find that common ground and i am sure i could find that with the president to get things done. the big story in arizona is as you know, i lost my election in 2010. we were both reelected in 2012 after redistricting. and we came together and we said, let's put our divisive history behind us. let's come together and work together to get things done for arizona. and we have a very good working relationship. a democrat and a republican. but that is so rare in washington dc that they call us "arizona's odd couple." tim: the presidential nominee of your party is deemed untrustworthy. why do you trust hillary clinton, and why do you support her policies?

rep. kirkpatrick: i think she is the most experienced, knowledgeable candidate we have had for president in years. but i don't agree with everything in her policies. for instance, i have been fighting against the epa for o ur coal fire electrical plants. i don't want to shut them down overnight, but eventually transition into alternative energies. townsre located in small where people need those jobs. we need a plan to do this tradition, so we don't lose any of those jobs. tim: a 45 second rebuttal, senator. sen. mccain: hillary clinton has told lies after lies. hillary clinton has disqualified herself to be president of the united states. i was good friend of the man named chris stevens, the ambassador to libya. i knew him and met him. i went to andrews air force base when the coffins came home,

after those brave americans were murdered. hillary clinton spoke to one of the parents of one of those dead young americans and said, i will get the guy who made the hateful video that caused your son's de ath. we now know that, according to her messages that she was sending, her e-mail, that she knew at the time that it was a terrorist attack. i don't know how you can lie to a grieving parent, standing next to the flag draped coffin of their son. for me, that did it. yvonne: given her high number of unfavorably, and the high number of people who do not trust her, in part because of this, do you think your support of her damages your credibility? yvonne: i don't think so. and look, my heart goes out to those who lost loved ones in thing got the. there were at least seven congressional investigations and

they came to the conclusion that there was no wrongdoing. but kevin mccarthy actually said they only did that for political reasons to embarrass hillary. tim: senator, again, the benghazi situation has been politicized, some say, to extreme measures, and some say not enough. where do you stand on this and again, how do you associate congresswoman kirkpatrick with benghazi? sen. mccain: i don't associate her with benghazi. i associate her with hillary clinton, whose stewardship of the state department, and was a wassion-maker after gaddafi killed, we walked away. we wrote a piece in "the wall street journal. you can't walk away. but the point is. benghazi has been lied about and lied about and lied about. we know that from the e-mails

and tragically, we now have a director of the federal bureau of investigation that has destroyed the credibility of the of by allowing servers information to be destroyed, by taking actions that have nothing to do with his responsibilities. yes, there was plenty of investigations of benghazi. and there should have been because of the needless deaths of these brave, young americans. at the same time, there has been a cover-up, the likes of which i have not seen and i believe that the facts someday will come out. accidental, an unprovoked demonstration. it was an act of terror that took the lives of four brave americans. the e-mails you spoke about, senator mccain, do you agree with the way hillary --inton's e-mails

rep. kirkpatrick: no i don't. but i take objection to the senator's disparaging remarks about the fbi. i worked my way through the university of arizona and earned a law degree and a started my career in flagstaff as a prosecutor. i have worked with the fbi. we have wonderful fbi agents. i have a very good relationship with law enforcement in this state. sen. mccain: that i just say. i respect the fbi a great deal, too. but james comey has established two standards. petraeusral betray revealed classified information, he paid the penalty. secretary clinton had access to all kinds of classified information and she paid no penalty. tim: a double standard, congresswoman?

rep. kirkpatrick: no, she admits she could've handled it better. has been so much on the e-mails, when we really should be talking about, what do we do to stimulate our economy? what about talking about a major infrastructure projects? i said on the transportation and infrastructure committee, we were hoping to be able to pass a package about a six-year national infrastructure package. it would great hundreds of thousands of good paying jobs. that is what we should be talking about. tim: senator mccain, the presidential nominee of your party has been controversial remarks about women, mexican immigrants, muslims, disabled people, and prisoners of war, including you. over the weekend, he withdrew your support for donald trump. one of our social media questions have come in. this is from dave in northern arizona. he is basically asking, what took you so long? sen. mccain: first of all, i

agree with congresswoman kirkpatrick about the importance of infrastructure. that is why i was able to get i-11 into the highway bill, which will go all the way from our southern border into canada. i appreciate congressman kirkpatrick's support for that amendment in the bill. i'm in the arena. if somebody wants to say something disparaging of me, i understand that. i don't understand it when it is said about other men and women who have been imprisoned. i spoke out strongly against it. i spoke out strongly on several other issues where i thought that mr. trump was absolutely wrong. i have not been shy about it. kahn family, a man who literally sacrificed his life to save others as he approached an ied, all of those things i thought were very wrong. but then, when mr. trump attacks women and demeans the women in

out nation and in our society, that is the point where i had to part company. it is not pleasant for me to renounce the nominee of my party. he won the nomination fair and square, but i have daughters. i have friends. i have so many wonderful people on my staff. they cannot be degraded and demeaned in that fashion. and so, i believe i had to withdraw my support, just as i cannot support hillary clinton. rebuttal.second rep. kirkpatrick: i have been asking that question for over a year. john mccain has been supporting donald trump. it was not enough when trump ahn family,e k who called on john mccain to renounce trump. it was not enough when he made

fun of a disabled reporter. the entire disabled community called on john mccain to denounce trump. he even made fun of veterans suffering from ptsd. no, john mccain would not renounce them. he has been trying to run from trump's disparaging remarks for the last year, while at the same time endorsing him over 60 times. sen. mccain: i wonder, since i have renounced my support, when congresswoman kirkpatrick will renounce her support for hillary clinton, who has continuously lied, lied to the families, the parents standing next to the coffin, flag draped of their son, saying, "i'm going to get the guy who made the hateful video." when she was e-mailing her daughter and others, she knew that it was a terrorist attack. it is not an accident that most americans do not trust her. yvonne: can we expect any sort of un-endorsement from you?

rep. kirkpatrick: no, you can't. yvonne: going back, do you think your credibility has been damaged by supporting donald trump? sen. mccain: the people of this country and the people of arizona know me. the people of arizona know m y character and integrity. frankly, i worry about the future of the republican party. we will have a lot of work to do after this election is over. tim: so, if i take your previous answer correctly, you are equating what hillary clinton did with messages and benghazi -- sen. mccain: know, lying to the family of the slain, young man, lying to them when they are standing to the coffin. the other things are bad enough, but lying to the grieving family. that to me is not unlike mr.

trump to meeting and the grading women. tim: as well as muslims, disabled people, prisoners of war, muslims -- sen. mccain: all of those things. when a person legitimately wins the nomination of the party, obviously, it deserves that support. i have expressed my disagreements with ronald reagan when he sent the marines to the behruit. had togeorge w. bush fire his secretary of state when we were losing the war in iraq. i said i would rather lose a campaign then lose a war. there is no doubt about my criticism when i see there is something that is wrong. tim: who are you going to vote for? sen. mccain: i think i might write in lindsey graham. seriously, i cannot vote for either one. yvonne: moving on to immigration -- rep. kirkpatrick: can i say one more point?

john mccain has been running away about answering whether he trust donald trump's finger on the nuclear button. senator, do you trust his finger on the nuclear arsenal? yes or no? a nonsense: that is question. i said i don't support him. yvonne: do you trust his finger on the button? sen. mccain: i do not see a scenario where the finger would be on the button. do you support hillary clinton's finger on the nuclear button? rep. kirkpatrick: i do. but you still haven't answered the question. sen. mccain: i just answered the question. no, and if you want to continue to support somebody who has continuously lied to the american people about her server, the person who had the reset button with the russians, remember that? everything was going to be great. remember the day hillary clinton became secretary of state and look at the world today.

he was the attacks on the united states of america. our director of the cia says those will continue. that is part of the leadership team hillary clinton was part of. tim: really quickly, did you support the idea of donald trump's finger on the button and held his past weekend? sen. mccain: i did because i was supporting the nominee of the party. i will continue with the nominee of the party's responsibilities and authorities. you could go on the way back to harry truman. the office has made the person. but this is an academic discussion, my friend, because i no longer support donald trump to be president of the united states. yvonne: moving on to the next question, on immigration. there are 11 million undocumented immigrants living in limbo, waiting for congress to implement a comprehensive immigration reform plan, which has not been done since 1986.

you both agree reform is needed. congresswoman kirkpatrick, you are an advocate for immigration reform. that when the democratic party control both chambers of congress and the white house, immigration reform was not enacted. why should voters expect anything different if they return you to office? rep. kirkpatrick: as a former prosecutor, i'm all about enforcing the law, the wheel mode this law is broken. isbut we all now thiknow this w broken. it is tearing families apart. i have been a consistent supporter for comprehensive immigration reform which includes the dream act. i have an immigration working group that meets periodically. it is very broad-based. we start our meetings with the stories of the dreamers and what has happened to their families and how this is just a tragic situation for them. so, i introduced legislation that would allow dreamers to

work on capitol hill. all because i think if dreamers were working on capitol hill, and people like senator mccain tcould hear their stories, we would pass comprehensive immigration reform in a heartbeat. right now, we have the votes to do that, but senator mccain's leadership will not bring it up for a vote. sen. mccain: i really glad that you mention the fact that in 2009, when barack obama was elected, he had 60 votes in teh he senate, and an overwhelming majority in the house. barack obama and senator kirkpatrick did not bring up this immigration reform. no, they wanted to bring up obamacare. bill clinton, said it was the craziest thing we have ever done. so, instead of that, they did

the stimulus package. they did obamacare. they did a lot of other things that were very damaging to the country. then, i was able to get immigration reform through the united states senate. that is the very big difference between having working groups and talking about it and having legislative accomplishments. and i promise you the dreamers were part of immigration reform, but we also have to have a secure border. and that border is going to be secure with legislation that i was able to get through, including the use of drones and towers and increasing the border patrol. by the way, the border patrol have endorsed me. tim: we hear about securing the border. what does a secure border mean? sen. mccain: well, you can have various statistics that could show that.

in israel, they have towers. we are constructing these towers now at about $3 million each. i got in the defense authorization bill a requirement that the drones would also be used to patrol the poorly. we can do it with technology, and additional border patrol personnel. i have worked very closely with the border patrol, and that is why they have endorsed me. i also have the endorsement of our law enforcement for reelection. there is another big issue now lurking out there, manufactured mexican heroin. it is getting across our border and killing people. that means we have to do whatever is necessary to secure that border. yvonne: we have a social media question from mesa visaa the public insight network. he says, one major problem i see

on the streets are drugs. it is widely reported that these come from across the border. how would you go about stopping this? congresswoman. rep. kirkpatrick: at me first address what it means to have a -- let me first address what it means to have a secure border. the border will be secure when the people down there feel secure. but they don't. this is the very reason we have to pass comprehensive immigration reform, so the border patrol agents can focus on the criminal activity there. and we have got to get this done. yeah, i have zero tolerance for the criminal drug trafficking, the sex trafficking at the border. that is why we need comprehensive immigration reform. yvonne: how do you stop it? rep. kirkpatrick: by for missing our border patrol agent's attention, time, and resources on the criminal element.

sen. mccain: right now, it takes 18 months for a border patrol aent to apply and become member. that is wrong. any military member or the veteran should be able to make that decision immediately. it is tough on the border. we should be providing those border patrol agents with hazardous duty with incentive pay. many of them would like to be in a nicer environment. we need to provide them with the incentive they need. we need to supply them with the support they need. we need technology, which is a major factor. again, i could not be more proud that the border patrol agents have endorsed my candidacy and are supporting it. by the way come i also fixed their retirement system. yvonne: moving on to our next question about illegal immigration. senator mccain, you criticized

senator obama's action. what would you do with these young, undocumented immigrants who were brought to this country as children who were raised american? sen. mccain: i would pass the comprehensive immigration reform through the united states senate. ust was a major group of that got that passed. has got to be part of comprehensive immigration reform. terrible things are happening right now to young people from guatemala, el salvador, honduras. they are being transported by these coyotes and being mistreated on the way. some of them are dieting. we have to have them -- some of them are dying. we have to have them taken care of. thesome of them are on the top of trains and fall off of trains. and it is a requirement for all of us to have a secure border.

,ight now as we speak, baghdadi is sending secure traps into the concentrated flow. sooner or later, they will try to get across our southern border. yvonne: thank you, senator. congresswoman. rep. kirkpatrick: nearly 15 years ago, john mccain did introduce the dream act. but when it came up for a vote in the senate, he voted against it. spoke recently with the business community, entrepreneurs who are bringing economic development to the area. they said trump's idea about building a wall is bad for arizona, but deporting 12 million people, that is personal. could i just rebut that? i voted because it was not part of comprehensive immigration

reform. yvonne: congresswoman, going back to these executive actions, you supported them. the court has found those actions are unconstitutional, but hillary clinton said she would go even further with those protections. do you agree with that stance and which type of protections would you support? rep. kirkpatrick: right now in arizona, we have so many people now with the fear that they might be deported because of the supreme court's action. this is why we have to have a full supreme court. john, right after justice scalia passed away said we should not fill the supreme court for a year because i think the next president should be filling the position and he was supporting donald trump. we need to have a working supreme court. an excellentis

example of that. tim: what do you think, senator? what is going on here with the supreme court ? sen. mccain: he said, we can take this kind of risk. let the american people speak. have this. i want joe biden, joe and i disagree on a lot of. but let the people decide. this mode is one of the most important in history. -- this vote is one of the most important in history. obama is acting unconstitutionally. he said, i have a pen and i have a phone. he is violating his oath of

office and the constitution of the united states and i do not say that lightly. yvonne: do you trust either of the major party candidates to appoint a supreme court justice? sen. mccain: the constitution says the president proposes into the senate disposes. i have confidence if we can keep in the united states senate, we will scrutinize and be very, very vote forabout who we or vote against but the worst thing in my view is a hillary clinton presidency and a majority of democrats in the senate. america cannot afford that. it would be tough times. rep. kirkpatrick: i'm not surprised the john mccain support someone from washington and support someone from thereafter he is been there for 34 years. gears people are saying, john mccain do your job.

people areona saying, john mccain do your job. do the job your taxpayers are paying for you to do. confirm a justice. john mccain once voted for merrick garland. now he won't even meet with him. we are tired of that kind of instruction and some in washington. sen. mccain: willow beach now has a fish hatchery i got the money for. this will be from our southern border to canada. one of the world's largest copper mines in the world. 25% of america's copper supply will be a result of that copper mine, which i got done. the f-35 is now want the air force base. every foreign student that flies the f-35 will be trained at luke air force base. so i kind of think i can make an argument i'm doing my job. ted: but we still have only eight supreme court justices.

sen. mccain: i would much rather have eight supreme court justices that in a justice who is liberal in the practice of ruth bader ginsburg, elaina kagan and the others who were liberal in my view. thein keeping with constitution. their actions, in my view, are not in keeping with my interpretation of the constitution. this is what makes this election very serious. question involves health care. it appears there will be just one health insurance company offering exchange plans in 14 of 16 counties. only people county will have two health insurers. you cast your vote for obamacare. you call that your proudest moment in congress. do you still hold onto that assessment, considering what we

are seeing now is smart rep. alwaysrick: yes but i've said it is not perfect and we are working together to fix it. i have over 20 years experience as a health care lawyer. i started in like stuff. center,ented a medical the emergency room, many other position so i have a good understanding of what is it all. an insurancehave company in the marketplace. when i first heard about the possibility that we would only have one carrier, i contacted the director and said, we need a plan to make sure that everybody has a choice. when i heard that and was pulling out, i talked to blue cross-blue shield in and they agreed to go in and provide coverage. this is in example of something we could have been doing the last six years and some continuing to repeal obamacare.

over 60 times. we should of been working to fix it. add $187's plan would billion to the deficit, make oath care more expensive for women because it would take away coverage for cancer screening and contraception. thaten cosponsored a bill would allow a in employer to fire a single woman who got pregnant. ted: 45 seconds rebuttal. sen. mccain: nonsense. congresswomanow kirkpatrick wants is to work together to fix it. the problem is that for the first time in history, a major entitlement reform isramco with a congress of the united states without a single vote from the other side. i fought for weeks he had weeks and weeks against obama carry hand they would not allow in amendment. there was not a single amendment allowed. nothing from the minority party. we were then in the minority

will stop now congresswoman kirkpatrick wants us to work together. there is how we work together. we repeal and replace it. is so bad that the former president of the united states, bill clinton, said it was the craziest thing he ever heard of. obamacare. so, we can fix the health system but it was based on a flawed premise, and that was we would take money from healthy young americans and spend it for the health care of less well, older thereans in by the way, is 14 of the 15 counties in arizona that have only one health care provider and that is obama andat barack congresswoman kirkpatrick said, if you like your policy you can keep it. ted: ok. we got your rebuttal time. congresswoman, response. it, getproblems, repeal it out of there, replace it. rep. kirkpatrick: guy was at a

wedding not long ago and the father of the rightful be assigned, tears streamed down, and said, you know i am a republican. you know what voted against you because of your health care vote. these are i would not be here today to walk my daughter down the aisle if you had not voted for health care. i do not want to go back to the days when somebody was a pre-existing -- with a pre-existing condition would have died and not unable to walk his donna dunn the aisle. but we do have to fix it. no question about it. hisave to -- unable to walk daughter down the aisle. but we have to exit. sen. mccain: the majority of americans do not approve of obamacare and 29% say they have been harmed by obamacare. nice peopleu meet at weddings, but the fact is the majority of the american people have resoundingly rejected obamacare and as far as

pre-existing conditions are concerned, we could have risk polls to take care of those people, nobody is ready to abandon them. havee: thousands of people been injured because of the affordable care act but many are paying much more than they used to for the same care or worse here. so what is your message to them? rep. kirkpatrick: i just heard from man who went private insurance, and his insurance rates this year were going to $3650 month and he said thank heavens he was able to get insurance or obamacare and his premiums are about $500 a month. sen. mccain: blue cross-blue shield has announced a are going to have a 55% -- 65% increase in their charges. the deductibles are skyrocketing out of sight 21 million why americans were predicted to have been part of obamacare and only

9 million american samples they whole thing is collapsing like a house of cards. ted: with the whole thing had collapsed like a house of cards as you described it if congress, instead of repeatedly trying to repeal the aca had worked to try to prevent -- improve it? sen. mccain: we will work hard to improve it by because of a flawed premise, we had to scrap it and start over. it was based on the wrong idea that we were going to penalize zhongpin. those young people would rather pay the fine. by the way, i have legislation that if there is only one health care as there is in 14 of 15 counties, they should not have to pay a fine. there is no choice. there is no doctor they like they can keep. scam.a the problem is the cost is becoming prohibitive and we have got to change it and fix it. regarding then economy.

senator mccain, this is for you. the u.s.at recession, has seen some recovery but rebound has been sluggish. what is your plan to accelerate job growth? what is your plan to accelerate economy? sen. mccain: regulations in and regulations and regulations. the tens of has regulations that have come out of the obama administration, whether they call arizona having navigable waters and washes and dry gulch is. shutting down our power grants. our coal-fired power plants which was incredibly expensive to literally regulating just about every aspect of our lives when you look at the regulations that have been an issue of her obamacare, they are about this site. how many hours they can work, whether or not they can work, whether or not they are eligible aliens this and that. micromanagement.

let's turn the government back to our governor and legislature decide's let the state these issues. 25,000 regulations have come out of the said restriction. -- out of this administration. i am going to tell you, and you ain't seen nothing yet. ted: 45 second rebuttal, carlos woman. rep. kirkpatrick: i was raised in the mountains, at that time there was a thriving timber industry. when that nearly plunged into poverty, it has been my vision in and work for air is honored to build a strong, diverse economy. we have gone through too many boom and bust cycles. we cannot have that kind of economy until we first told a world-class education system here and we pass apprehensive immigration reform. sen. mccain: let me mention to issues that have determined the issue -- that determine the future verizon up. fire and water. we need to thin our forest.

we need to make tough decisions on water. willing to work with congresswoman kirkpatrick and anyone else. we have to work together because the issue is going to determine the future of our children and grandchildren and i am proud to work with jon kyl on a number of indian what are settlements which are critical to the supply of water and arizona. yvonne: you talk about results, but how do we resolve to thousand seven bush era of economic regulation and taxes? sen. mccain: the collapse of 2008 did not have a lot to do with government regulation. the housing with industry as we know. that is what arizona was so badly hurt and that is why we are one of the slowest to recover, because we love the housing industry to go completely out of control and obviously the stock market went with it and arizona suffered a right deal from it and the

measures we had to take were very difficult into the reason we have not recovered sufficiently as we have from other recessions is because of this government caused micromanagement of the economy and the government regulations that have stifled -- let me give you an example. if you cut the number of hours per week that a person can beend work and also not eligible for obamacare, then you're causing the employer to do things which make it difficult to really get -- make a profit and hire different individuals. ted: that was the idea that you are regulations against tax cuts the 2008- factor in 2007 recession. do you buy that? kirkpatrick: i have not buying that. i saw some money families

suffer. in flagstaff, an entire cul-de-sac, every house was being foreclosed on. it really hurt families. it did not hurt the people on wall street who made more money. i mean, donald trump said it was an opportunity. a business opportunity for him. there was a day when john mccain was a maverick and would stand up to his party but now he has taken more money from wall street van any other sitting senator. he gave them the bailout. i have always opposed the bailout. a reasonin: there's this is the slowest recovery in history. that is because the stewardship of the economy in the last eight years. it is a lot more complicated than that. mix it we are going to up. knowing people can go to your one-wordfor details, answer. arizonans are going to be asked whether they want to increase the minimum wage to $12 by 2020. yes or no, do you support? sen. mccain: no.

rep. kirkpatrick: yes. worked pretty well. i thought we would have to rate you would but you did well. thank you. it has been in turmoil regardless of what you have done massive reforms to try to fix the marriott problems. a recent auditor general's report, we wrote about it extensively in the arizona republic, it is critical of the agency and have found patients are unable to get to their appointments in a timely manner. you have not fixed the problems, congress has not fix the problems. why not and how do you fix it? rep. kirkpatrick: i was the first member of congress to ask for an independent investigation. against to protect retaliation. so my whistleblower protection act just past the house.

peoplehose -- of those who are brave had not come forward, we would not know what was going on at the va hospital. i just finished a round of visits to all of our ba hospitals. prescott, phoenix, tucson. after i did that, i hadn't veterans round table because i want to hear what digs rinses with the veterans hospital and administration. in tucson, having mike veterans roundtable, john mccain was on the radio blaming the veteran service organization for the -- atms at the the eight the va hospital. that is not going to fix the problem. we need to work in a bipartisan way for our veterans. we need to fight for them with all of our might. sen. mccain: i have been honored by every service organization. how can this terrible thing happen and the tragedy and unix of 50 brave veterans dying on a

waiting list. i was asked to work with bernie sanders, then the chairman of the veterans affairs committee. we worked hard. it was stopped. we made some significant reforms, among them are the choice program. veterans, under certain conditions, is able to go out and get health care from a provider. so far, 500 appointments have been made. that was legislation that senator sanders and i work on and was able to get through congress. a terrible problem in america today and that is veteran suicide. a thousand veterans in america commit suicide every day. every date. i pass the clay can't suicide prevention act thanks to the family members of clay hunt, a young man who committed suicide. of theway, i am proud city of phoenix for not having

homeless veterans. ted: congressman kirkpatrick, the idea of a new director of the va hospital is not unusual. pastve had seven in the two years. your thoughts on the latest who has troubles? i had anpatrick: opportunity to meet her. i know is a woman how difficult it is to rise up in the ranks in any organization so i welcomed her to arizona. i want to give her a chance. ted: you want to give her a , senator? sen. mccain: it is an indictment of the system, my friend. two of seven heads of the bam have seven 7 -- to inds of the va hospital phoenix and seven years? i think she is a great deal to prove and i am willing to give her a chance also but frankly, the whole system cries out. look, in denver, colorado, the ba tried to -- bv.

a. tried to build a hospital. could be many veterans treated with that kind of money and finally again, i want a veteran to have the same choice that someone on medicaid does. go to their physician or health care provider of your choice if you can't go to the the a hospital. yvonne: of care deeply about. this is related to terrorism and national security. senator, over the past year we have seen terrorist attacks on u.s. cities from coast-two-coast. how do you plan on keeping arizonans save from attacks daxired doors sponsored by -- inspired or sponsored by isil? mccain bank -- sen. mccain: as we speak, baghdadi is giving people

encrypted upset i told about. there is also the self-radicalized ones. young men sitting on these internet right now being self-radicalized. willing to take the lives of others. first, we have to go to raqqa. is an ideological struggle we are involved in to try to stop this radical islam which the president of the united states refuses to call islamic terrorism. we are want to have this fight. the problem is, due to barack obama's spell your leading from behind, isis has missed us a size throughout the world. , malaysia,a indonesia, other places because when america leads from behind some other really bad people leave him in front. we need a leader who will lead. yvonne: thank you.

rep. kirkpatrick: it is a two-prong approach. we have to take out isis leadership and prevent them from exporting terror. john sen. mccain: solution is to send in more trips anytime there is a crisis. send in more trips. i don't want to send in more trips and until we have a plan to bring them home and a plan to take care of them wants to get home. i was the one who said we were losing the war in iraq and we had to have the surge. i wanted the secretary of defense fired. that was with george w. bush. sacrifice,ervice and we won. then barack obama called everybody out and the rest is history, as al qaeda became a isis and went to syria and morphed. it did not have to happen. ted: prescribed by president? -- by president bush? sen. mccain: the light being told is that somehow we had to

pull them out. it is not true. i was in baghdad with lindsey graham and joe lieberman. they were ready to stay. but obama said that they needed to have a status of forces agreement. we had 4000 american troops there. where is the requirement for the status of forces agreement? it is not there and not necessary and we are doing it mentally a lot of us that no bit, it is called mission creep. ted: congresswoman, you want to see trips back in iraq? sen. mccain: they are in syria as well. gradually escalating. that barack obama said we are living behind the freest, safest, and most of a chronic iraq. -- and most democratic iraq. americans have special kinds of capabilities,

including your support and others go in and take raqqa. you can do that in a short. of time -- in a short time. rep. kirkpatrick: it was not george w. bush and john mccain knows that because in 2010 he put out on twitter, to presidentns bush for the pool-out and how happy was that was accomplished. he is not telling the truth. sen. mccain: i argued on the floor and predicted what would happen. he did not pull them all out. they were not pulled all out until barack obama became president of the united states. ted: congresswoman? funny wepatrick: it is spent so much of the debate talking about the national issues, does not surprise me because john mccain is the running for president. i am running to be arizona senator's ally would like to

talk about things that are important to arizonans, like jobs. 10: we did talk about the economy earlier. right now we're out of time. it has been a lively debate. closing statements. earlier we drew numbers to determine the order of closing statements. rep. kirkpatrick: it would be an honor to serve as your next senator. my arizona roots are deep. on both sides of my family, we have been here 100 years. i have always put arizona first. what is remarkable is that i, like hundreds of thousands of other arizonans, once voted for john mccain. but i am disappointed. is beenhanged since he in washington for 33 years. you see, he wants authored the dream act and then he voted against it.

he supported comprehensive immigration reform and now he has campaigned on --. fought against corrupting money in politics. now, he has taken more money from wall street ban any other sitting senator. an honor.e arizonans have a choice in this election, i would be honored to have your vote. i do so much. ted: thank you. now senator john mccain. sen. mccain: thank you for your professional questions, it has been an honor. congresswoman kurt actor goes right, i have changed. understand the issues and challenges facing arizona. i've traveled everywhere. of 52 the endorsement mayors in arizona. you know? it does not mean i have left, it means they trust me and i trust him because they are the people i talk to where i can understand the challenges.

look, i came here 35 years ago in and i have made a home and family. i have been so blessed are the people of verizon or who have taken me and my family and i have been -- the people of taken me and my family in. i believe serving a cause greater than one's own self-interest is the greatest anyone can do. i say to the people of arizona thank you. i hope you will send me back. ted: thank you so much. that does it for now at this special section of the 2016 debate watch you by the arizona pbs in the arizona republic. candidates. the i am ted simons. stay tuned for continued coverage of the 2016 election. have a great evening.

announcer: coming up on c-span, the candidates vying to replace congresswoman ann kirkpatrick who is challenging senator mccain. fourthhe race for utah's district. challengers for washington state's fifth district. again the debate between senator john mccain and congresswoman and kirkpatrick. look at state races continues tuesday. north carolina governor faces the democrats live on c-span two. west virginia governor and democratic challenger businessman in the state governor's race. on c-span3, first-term congressman faces the republican in nebraska's second district.

live at 7:00 p.m. eastern on the c-span networks. ♪ >> c-span's washington journal, live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. coming up tuesday morning, the latest developments in the presidential campaign following the second debate. looking at key house races and what to look for in the weeks ahead. plus, the media research center hand media matters for america president. c-span washington journal, live beginning at 7:00 a.m. tuesday morning. join me discussion. debate between the candidates for arizona's first congressional district. currently held by

ann kirkpatrick who is challenging senator john mccain. this is hosted by arizona pbs public , arizona horizon. >> good evening and welcome to this sferble election 2016 edition of arizona horizon. i am ted simons. tonight's show is a debate. we will hear from candidates look to go rement congressional district one. it is not a formally exercise. it is an open exchange of ideas, a give and take between the candidates for one of the tate's most important offices. cd-1 is huge. it is the 10th