currently held by ann kirkpatrick who is challenging senator john mccain. this is hosted by arizona pbs public , arizona horizon. >> good evening and welcome to this sferble election 2016 edition of arizona horizon. i am ted simons. tonight's show is a debate. we will hear from candidates look to go rement congressional district one. it is not a formally exercise. it is an open exchange of ideas, a give and take between the candidates for one of the tate's most important offices. cd-1 is huge. it is the 10th large he is

congressional district in the country. it stretches from paige to just north of tuscon. about 25% of the district's population is american indian. the congressional seat is being vacated by ann kirkpatrick, who is challenging john mccain. e move on to our candidates. county sheriff and republican paul babeu, and dempster tom o'halleran. open candidate will now have one minute for opening and closing statements. we drew numbers to see who goes goes and that honor first to tom o'halleran. >> thank you. i grew up in a working class family. my father worked day in and day out. every weekend i watched him put together a notebook of what was going to occur with his ability to provide for our family in the coming week. so the bottom line here is that i had a strong sense of hard

work, a strong sense of ethics, and a strong sense of community. what is happening in america oday and in arizona today is a dysfunctional congress. we have to make sure we start working for the middle-class families and the working class families of america again. we have to take into account what our children need and their opportunities for future. when he was in the legislature, i worked on child services and educational issues, successfully bringing people together and unifying them. >> thank you. we turn to paul babeu. > well, as you know know me as the sheriff for the past eight years of the county. have worked hard at protecting families and protecting arizona. we have had the largest drug bust in the history of the state, $3 billion. i have always had the honor of

serving our nation as an army officer. i started as a private. i served a tour in iraq. i am for enforcing the law, securing our border and protecting america. i don't feel our nation is more secure or more safe than it was eight years ago. our economy is struggling. national debt is $20 trillion. we have to fix our country. i will be a part of the solutions for our country of lowering taxes and regulation and putting america and our citizens first. >> thank you very much. let's get it going here. tom, why you for this position, representing this district in congress and not him? >> well, i have represented this district before in my areas. i have looked upon issues, state-wide issues, education, health care. i have had a very successful record in the legislature. i make sure i work bipartisanship across party

lines, sometimes against my leadership, sometimes with my leadership in order to provide solutions and not tear people apart and making sure that working families are thought of first. i believe that my skill set, my experience both in law enforcement and in business allow me to have the perspective to be able to do that congress. >> same question. why you and not him? >> well, this is about jobs and our economy. clearly i am not, and a lot of people in our state are struggling to makes ends meet. the government has become too large and costly, evidenced by a $20 trillion deficit. we've got to cut spending. we can't continue to think that we are going to spend our way into prosperity or tax our way. it has failed. it has failed here in arizona. it has failed national limit we need new leaders. am an outsider, not just a a sheriff. i have asked for money because i provide a core money.

i have had an 8% budget cut in the past two years. i have had to keep 53-plus vacancies in the sheriff as office. so nobody could convince me in washington that we can't cut back, we can't set priorities and live within our means, because this really threatens not just our economy, and it hurts the taxpayer while 95 million americans are out of work, it threatens national security. >> when you get back to washington, cutting back on spending in general, a focus or priority for you? >> investing in our future is a priority for me, making sure we live within our means is a priority to me. i am not going to haphazardly cut across the board when we have education issues to deal with, addressing infrastructure needs and the security of our nation, whether it is with our military or our borders. these are primaries that we have to invest in, in the future, not move back on. we have to protect the american

citizens. my record identifies clearly that i can do that. i cut taxes when appropriate and for business, property taxes from 25% to 20%. personal income taxes, $500 million for small businesses people without our state. and for our corporations that export out of this country. so i have that experience, and i have that background. >> cutting where appropriate as opposed to cutting to cut? >> not just that. when you hear these key words as investing, that is code for more of the same. more of the same is not going to fix our country. it is not going to bring trillions of dollars that are offshore back into the united states and grow and build jobs here in the united states. how we do that is we cut taxes and literally reduce all these tax brackets into three main categories for every tax payer. and also the corporate tax. this is different. some people say well, that is not going to help, we are going to have less money for the government. if you believe in that concept,

i am not the guy to vote for. i am the guy that says get overnment out of the way and allow the job creators, which are small businesses, to virginia tech the job and opportunity. -- to create the job and the opportunity. >> some would argue that government was pushed too far out of the way during the last years of the busch administration and we wound up having an economic crisis. how do you explain that? >> a perfect example is right here in arizona. nationally on that point, we had fannie mae and freddie mac. and you see all these lonse that are propped up by the government and the housing crash taking place, the government was a party to this, picking winners and losers. here in arizona, you have the forest service, the e.p.a., that have come in, in the name of trying to protect our environment, and what they have done -- and a lot of us have

talked about it, the gold king mine spill. harming and destroying our environment. whitner you see the forest service, while they are saying they are trying to protect our forests, 20% of our forests have been destroyed, burned in the last 12 years, and we are not able to environment ally safely thin our forests, that could always complement lumber and industry. >> respond? >> i have on a consistent basis cut taxes to improve the working conditions of working class families and small businesses in arizona. paul has nod hat to run a small business like ivan make sure the paychecks go out to the workers in that business, making sure we expand that business. i have a lot of experience both n the private sector in making sure we do not over regulate. regular simulation a cost factor, and i want to make sure that cost factor is not passed on to our businesses to hinder

their ability to hire in our state. >> i can tell you what i haven't done -- because this is very important. we are talking about going from being a represent, and you lost your election because you voted for massive budget increases under the governor. governor brewer told me watch out for taxing tom o'halleran. the reason we had to sell our state capitol, the senate and legislature is because we didn't have money after you left office. we have had to live with that. it is not about spending more money. as much as you like to say you have cut taxes, the record shows massive increases in spending, 64%, and that is the wrong type of philosophy of "investing" sending to washington at a time we are about to clams. >> we need a collapse. >> taxing tom.

i saw that on one of your fundraiser requests. we had almost a million people enter this state while i was in the legislature. we had a 27% inflation factor. we had to pay back $2 billion worth of funding for our schools in maintenance that had been deferred. we dealt with a lawsuit of almost $600 million, and we put more money in our universities and colleges and our k-12 education system to improve the future of our children, and dealt with child protective service reform and the ability of our children to be appropriately -- have health care under kids care program, and many more, including $10 million a year into border security. >> at the very least can you use those numbers when the population increases and inflation increases? >> you are talking to a sheriff who has responsibility for public safety. in the fastest growing county

in our state, one of the fastest growing counties in america. my weatherbug did not grow by 64%. in fact, it has been cut back 8%. that is millions of dollars. you can't say well, our state is growing and we have to increase spending by 64%. that is how we got into this mess. we had to sell all these government buildings. governor brewer, one of the first things she said is this is embarrassing for our state. i want the legislature to buy back the nine-story tower that the governor's office was in. that is fiscally irresponsible. >> we cut budgets when they needed to be cut. in good times we cut taxes and improved our infrastructure in the state and improved our children's future. the whole concept that because governor brewer said she was in trouble doesn't mean it was because of what occurred before. we went from a rating in the

legislature of the mid teens, according to the capital times, to over 50%. people in this state knew things were being done for them and their future. you can always cut, but the idea is to prioritize those cuts so you don't hinder the future of america. and yet when he do deal with the issues of mortgages in america, the republican senate, the republican congress and republican president should have dealt with those issues for six years. instead they chose not to do that. >> you took these votes, and the fact is that when you were fired from your job as a legislator, the leaders in our state had to pay off this debt. we had the highest per capital debt per citizen of any state. we all remember the catastrophe, the billions and billions of dollars in california, and to try to get out of that mess. we were in further debt better capita than they were. issue of o race the

cole -- of koal. we have four coal fired generating stations. we'll fight to preserve coal is his an energy source, and not just because of the 3,000 to 5,000 jobs connected to those generating stations. hillary clinton wants to close coal mines, and then the train conductors and engineers, but also our electric rates. everybody pace electric. the estimates are increases of 30% as high as 40%, immediately passed down to rate payers. we have to discuss that issue. let's get to the coal industry. >> paul knows very well i have gone around the state saying we are going to protect those jobs. this regulatory environment that the e.p.a. put forward without talking to our local

communities, without understanding the needs of our school districts, without understanding the long-term viability of a national energy plan, and that as a country, whether it has been in the last decade or two decades, investing seriously in clean coal technology. we need to do those things. >> you can't have it both ways. >> i can have my things. >> the last debate we were in, you said publicly that you pported the e.p.a.'s plan -- >> no i didn't. >> that is what i understood. they report it had that way. >> no, they didn't. what i have been reporting across all the newspapers, across all the people that represent workers in these factories and coal mines is that i am against the e.p.a. regulatory environment and just what i said a second ago is what i have been saying as a consistent story. >> well, let me share this. we were both in holbrook, and we talked to the train

conductors and ennears, about a third of them were on furlo. there were about 120 of them in that room. tom spoke first, and i spoke second. they asked him a question, and you can ask scott, the union president and the other members there, and they react that you told them that you don't trust the republicans to clean up the pollution in the strirmente and therefore you support the clean power plan. let me finish the story. >> you weren't there. >> i was there. >> no, not that time. you were in an outer room. you had just gotten there late. i understand fully when you got there. that is not what i told them. as you said, they react. that is not what occurred. >> why would union, almost every one of nieminen in that room were democrats, and they voted almost unanimously to endorse me. they gave me a $5,000 pac check. the reason they said is we know

you are going to fight for coal as an energy source. >> and every other union working in the coal and power generation industry have endorsed me. >> you say something in one group, and you you say something else in another group. >> you say they react. the bottom line here is simple. i have been endorsed by the vast majority of them. you have been endorsed by one. >> most unions are going to support the democratic candidate. i came to speak, and it is one of the few opportunities i was given to speak to a union, and i won them over almost unanimously, and they are almost all democrats. they know i will fight the e.p.a. and stand up to the president on the second mendment, which i know you have changed your position on the second mendment. >> hold on. second amendment. have you changed your? >> i am a former police officer. i have changed the position as far as one position.

i believe terrorists should not to lowed a looch hole purchase firearms in america today. and fell ons -- >> so you would be surprised if the n.r.a. as unanimously endorsed me? >> i wouldn't be surprised at all because any change in the process will move to that position. >> it is -- >> anderson cooper called me on the show. he said sheriff i know you are a big critic of president obama when it comes to lack of border security and enforcing the law. i would like to have you on this town hall to ask him a question. i said i get to ask the [inaudible question] directly? >> yes. >> he tried to make the same argues you are trying to make that are false actions. any action or anything on the second amendment --

>> 100% people should be allowed to have protection in their homes, cars on their person. i agree with that. >> why didn't you respond to the n.r.a. question air? >> i don't believe people who are fell ons or terrorists should have any ability legally to procure weapons. i worked as an undercover officer to make sure those weapons were off the street. >> i am scratching my head now. you used to be against obama care, and now you are for it. you used to have a different position, and now after two phone calls and a question by the n.r.a., tom o'halleran is dark. that is a clue to me. >> i need a response. >> i knew very quickly that they were against the loophole changes. so why fill out a question air that would allow them to do that? again, i am a -- i took an oath of office for public safety.

i want our citizens protected. i am not going to do away with the second amendment. i want to make sure the second mendment is protected. >> hold on. we need to move on here. i want to get to a general question. it has been brought up before in this debate. you were once a republican. you then became an independent. you are now a democrat. why should voters trust that you have a commitment to ideals when you get back to washington? >> because it is the same ideals i worked on before. the ideal is simple. to be able to represent the people of con congressional district one. those ideals were never we had when i was in the legislature. no part of my public policy has ever been questioned whether i was representing the people before the party or before leadership. i lost my chairmanship because i fought for people. i lost my bill one time because i fought for people. so the idea that i am not going to fight for the citizens of

con congressional district one is ridiculous. >> i don't buy that. >> why not? >> why? because he did represent a district, and they said we don't like what you are doing, and you are fired because all of your taxing, your growing of the budget, 64%. you can't have it both ways. then you ran as an independent just two years ago. and now the very month you said you were going to run for congress, that is a political opportunist. >> you can't have your math and not acknowledge the real math. , e real math is 27% inflation the set-aside issues for decades that we needed to take care of. 20% growth in our population. those are real numbers. and the real numbers are how many children were impacted at the schools. >> why did you switch parties? >> there have been questions

before the final debate between hillary clinton and donald trump, we are looking back to past presidential debates. this saturday at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, the 1984 debate between president ronald reagan and walter mondale. >> we must understand that we are a democracy. we are a government by the people, and when we move, it should be for very severe and extreme reasons that serve our

national interests and end up with a stronger country behind it. >> i will not make age an issue of this campaign. i am not going to exploit for political purposes my opponent's youth and inexperience. >> then the 1988 presidential debate between vice president george h.w. duchene and michael dukakis. >> we can bring that deficit down steadily, build economic growth, build a good strong future for america, invest in those things which we must invest in, economic development, good jocks. >> i wish he would join me, as a matter of fact, in appealing to the american people for the balanced budget mendment for the federal government and for the line item veto. i would like to have the line item veto for the president because i think that would be extraordinarily helpful. >> and the twail debate with

illinois senior ibrahimovic and john mccain. >> the situation today cries out for bipartisanship. senator obama has never taken on the leaders of his party on a single issue. we need to reform. let's look at our records as well as our rhetoric. that is really part of your mistrust here. >> we are going to have to make some investments, but we have so make spending cuts. you will hear senator mccain saying he is proposing a whole butch more spending. it is a spending cut. >> watch past proceedings debates saturday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. watch any time on c-span.org and listen at 8:00 p.m. eastern on the c-span radio app. >> as the nation elects a new

president in november, will america have its first foreign born first lady since louisa adams. learn more about the influence of america's presidential spouses, from c-span's first ladies. first ladies gives the reader a look into the personal lives and impact of every first lady in american history. it is a companion to c-span's well regarded biography series. each chapter offers brief biographies of 45 presidential spouses and archive alphotos from their lives. first ladies in paper back, published by public affairs is now available at your favorite book seller and also as an e-book. >> next a debate between the candidates for utah's fourth district. mia faces the democratic challenger doug owns. in debate courtesy of the utah

debate commission. >> to the candidates debate. [applause] >> welcome to the miller campus of salt lake city community college for one of the most anticipated exchange during this 2016 election season. tonight we gather for a debate between candidates in utah's fourth congressional zridget. our did he is a rematch of an exchange that took place two years ago.

tonight we will hear from the republican candidate, the incouple bentil, -- and doug owens. each candidate receives an opportunity for an opening star. my owens has the first opportunity. >> good evening everybody, i want to thank the debate commission for organizing this event. advantage. i want to thank salt lake community college. this is one auto institution. they education 60,000 utahans and give them a great launch into life. i want to tell you why i am running. my dad came from a little town in storen utah. he was the youngest of nine children. my grandfather had lost his farm in the depression, so my dad grew up dirt poor. he did not have a toothbrush until he was 15. but he believed in the american dream, and so at 18 he came up to salt lake city and he got a job