erica in tuscon. how will you work across the aisle to make sure policy is passed and we stay out of stalemates? first, the issue on term limits. the voters determine term limits. at one time, i think they term limited congresswoman kirkpatrick and she came back and many people are glad she did. but the most important thing is, you have to have the knowledge and the background to make things happen. i have the years of experience in the military. i have years of experience in traveling all over this state, from yuma, to different parts of our state of arizona where i

know the people and i know the issues. we are going to have a mine in superior thanks to language i put in the authorization bill, which will then provide 25% of america's copper supply and hire thousands of people. the reason why the a10 is flying in combat in iraq and syria is because a major the air force cadet retire them. it is experience and knowledge that leads to effectiveness and you have to have the respect of your colleagues. tim: but the question was working across the aisle. sen. mccain: on the armed services committee, we have always turned out a bill for 53 years now. that is the only bill that gets through the congress. republicans and democrats work together for the men and women serving this nation and for the good of the country. that is one of my proudest accomplishments, our ability to help the men and women serving to defend this nation. i am very proud of them. yvonne: congresswoman, how would you envision working with a president trump? rep. kirkpatrick: i was born and raised on the white mountain.

my mother's family were ranchers and my father's family were democratic businessman. it made for interesting get-togethers. but at the end of the day, we were all family, arizonans, americans. i have a unique ability to find that common ground and i am sure i could find that with the president to get things done. the big story in arizona is as you know, i lost my election in 2010. we were both reelected in 2012 after redistricting. and we came together and we said, let's put our divisive history behind us. let's come together and work together to get things done for arizona. and we have a very good working relationship. a democrat and a republican. but that is so rare in washington, dc, that they call us "arizona's odd couple."

tim: the presidential nominee of your party is deemed untrustworthy. why do you trust hillary clinton? and why do you support her policies? kirk: i think she is the most experienced, knowledgeable candidate we have had for president in years. but i don't agree with everything in her policies. for instance, i have been fighting against the epa for o ur coal fire electrical plants. i don't want to shut them down overnight, but eventually transition into alternative energies. they are located in small towns where people need those jobs. we need a plan to do this transition, so we don't lose any of those jobs. tim: a 45 second rebuttal, senator. sen. mccain: hillary clinton has told lies after lies. hillary clinton has disqualified herself to be president of the united states. i was good friend of the man

named chris stevens, the ambassador to libya. i knew him and met him. i went to andrews air force base when the coffins came home, after those brave americans were murdered. hillary clinton spoke to one of the parents of one of those dead young americans and said, i will get the guy who made the hateful video that caused your son's de -- death. we now know that, according to her messages that she was sending, her e-mail, that she knew at the time that it was a terrorist attack. i don't know how you can lie to a grieving parent, standing next to the flag draped coffin of their son. for me, that did it. yvonne: given her high number of ofavorable to -- unfavorability, and the high number of people who do not trust her, in part because of

this, do you think your support of her damages your credibility? rep. kirkpatrick: i don't think so. and look, my heart goes out to those who lost loved ones in thing got the. there were at least seven congressional investigations and they came to the conclusion that there was no wrongdoing. but kevin mccarthy actually said they only did that for political reasons to embarrass hillary. tim: senator, again, the benghazi situation has been politicized. some say, to extreme measures, and some say not enough. where do you stand on this and again, how do you associate congresswoman kirkpatrick with benghazi? sen. mccain: i don't associate her with benghazi. i associate her with hillary clinton, whose stewardship of the state department, and was a decision-maker after gaddafi was killed, we walked away. lindsey graham and i and joe

lieberman wrote a piece in "the wall street journal. you can't walk away. but the point is. benghazi has been lied about and lied about and lied about. we know that from the e-mails and tragically, we now have a director of the federal bureau of investigation that has destroyed the credibility of the fbi by allowing servers of information to be destroyed, by taking actions that have nothing to do with his responsibilities. yes, there was plenty of investigations of benghazi. and there should have been because of the needless deaths of these brave, young americans. at the same time, there has been a cover-up, the likes of which i have not seen and i believe that the facts someday will come out. this was not an accidental, unprovoked demonstration. it was an act of terror that took the lives of four brave americans.

it was covered up by the white house. yvonne: the e-mails you spoke about, senator mccain, do you agree with the way hillary clinton's e-mails? rep. kirkpatrick: no i don't. but i take objection to the senator's disparaging remarks about the fbi. i worked my way through the university of arizona and earned a law degree and a started my career in flagstaff as a prosecutor. i have worked with the fbi. they do a lot of the investigations on tribal land. we have wonderful fbi agents. i have a very good relationship with law enforcement in this state. sen. mccain: can i just say, i respect the fbi a great deal, too. but james comey has established two standards. when general petraeus revealed classified information, he paid the penalty. secretary clinton had access to

all kinds of classified information and she paid no penalty. tim: a double standard, congresswoman? rep. kirkpatrick: no, she admits she could've handled it better. there has been so much on the e-mails, when we really should be talking about, what do we do to stimulate our economy? what about talking about a major infrastructure project? i said on the transportation and -- i sit on the transportation and infrastructure committee, we were hoping to be able to pass a package about a six-year national infrastructure package. it would create hundreds of thousands of good paying jobs. that is what we should be talking about. tim: senator mccain, the presidential nominee of your party has been controversial remarks about women, mexican immigrants, muslims, disabled people, and prisoners of war, including you. over the weekend, you withdrew your support for donald trump. one of our social media

questions have come in. this is from dave in northern arizona. he is basically asking, what took you so long? sen. mccain: principle, i agree all, i agree of with congresswoman kirkpatrick about the importance of infrastructure. that is why i was able to get i-11 into the highway bill, which will go all the way from our southern border into canada. i appreciate congressman kirkpatrick's support for that amendment in the bill. i'm in the arena. if somebody wants to say something disparaging of me, i understand that. i don't understand it when it is said about other men and women who have been imprisoned. i did not like it. i spoke out strongly against it. i spoke out strongly on several other issues where i thought that mr. trump was absolutely wrong. i have not been shy about it. the son of the kahn family, a man who literally sacrificed his life to save others as he

approached an ied, all of those things i thought were very wrong. but then, when mr. trump attacks women and demeans the women in out nation and in our society, that is the point where i had to part company. it is not pleasant for me to renounce the nominee of my party. he won the nomination fair and square, but i have daughters. i have friends. i have so many wonderful people on my staff. they cannot be degraded and demeaned in that fashion. and so, i believe i had to withdraw my support, just as i cannot support hillary clinton. tim: a 45 second rebuttal. rep. kirkpatrick: i have been asking that question for over a year. john mccain has been supporting donald trump. over 60 times, he has endorsed him. it was not enough when trump

insulted the kahn family, who called on john mccain to renounce trump. it was not enough when he made fun of a disabled reporter. the entire disabled community called on john mccain to denounce trump. he even made fun of veterans suffering from ptsd. no, john mccain would not renounce them. he has been trying to run from trump's disparaging remarks for the last year, while at the same time endorsing him over 60 times. sen. mccain: i wonder, since i have renounced my support, when congresswoman kirkpatrick will renounce her support for hillary clinton, who has continuously lied, lied to the families, the parents standing next to the coffin, flag draped of their son, saying, "i'm going to get the guy who made the hateful video." when she was e-mailing her daughter and others, she knew that it was a terrorist attack.

she has lied about her lies about the server. it is not an accident that most americans do not trust her. yvonne: can we expect any sort of un-endorsement from you? rep. kirkpatrick: no, you don't. yvonne: going back, do you think your credibility has been damaged by supporting donald trump? sen. mccain: the people of this country and the people of arizona know me. the people of arizona know me and my character and my integrity. i just worry, frankly, i worry about the future of the republican party. we are going to have a lot of work to do after this election is over. tim: so, if i take your previous answer correctly, you are equating what hillary clinton regarding messages and benghazi -- sen. mccain: no, lying to the family of the slain, young man,

lying to them when they are standing to the coffin. the other things are bad enough, but lying to the grieving family. that to me is not unlike mr. trump demeaning and degrading women. tim: as well as muslims, disabled people, prisoners of war, muslims -- sen. mccain: all of those things. when a person legitimately wins the nomination of the party, obviously, it deserves that support. i have expressed my disagreements with ronald reagan when he sent the marines to the behruit. -- in beirut. i said george w. bush had to fire his secretary of state when we were losing the war in iraq. i said i would rather lose a campaign then lose a war. there is no doubt about my criticism when i see there is something that is wrong. tim: who are you going to vote for? sen. mccain: i think i might write in lindsey graham. seriously, i cannot vote for

either one. yvonne: moving on to immigration rep. kirkpatrick: can i say one -- moving on to immigration -- rep. kirkpatrick: can i say one more point? john mccain has been running away about answering whether he trust donald trump's finger on the nuclear button. senator, do you trust his finger on the nuclear arsenal? yes or no? sen. mccain: isn't that a nonsense question? i have said i don't support him. yvonne: do you trust his finger on the button? sen. mccain: i do not see a scenario where the finger would be on the button. do you support hillary clinton's finger on the nuclear button? rep. kirkpatrick: i do. but you still haven't answered the question. sen. mccain: i just answered the question. no, and if you want to continue to support somebody who has continuously lied to the american people about her server, the person who had the reset button with the russians, remember that? everything was going to be great.

look at the world today that hillary clinton became secretary of state and look at the world today. you will see a failed policy and attacks on the united states of america. our director of the cia says those will continue. that is part of the leadership team hillary clinton was part of. tim: really quickly, did you support the idea of donald trump's finger on the button and held his past weekend? sen. mccain: i did because i was supporting the nominee of the party. i will continue with the nominee of the party's responsibilities and authorities. we have seen many times, you could go on the way back to harry truman. the office has made the person. but this is an academic discussion, my friend, because i no longer support donald trump to be president of the united states. yvonne: moving on to the next question, on immigration. there are 11 million undocumented immigrants living

in limbo, waiting for congress to implement a comprehensive immigration reform plan, which has not been done since 1986. you both agree reform is needed. congresswoman kirkpatrick, you are an advocate for immigration reform. that when the democratic party control both chambers of congress and the white house, immigration reform was not enacted. why should voters expect anything different if they return you to office? rep. kirkpatrick: as a former prosecutor, i'm all about enforcing the law, but we know this law is broken. issue becausemic it hurts is this. it is a moral issue because it is caring families apart. -- it is caring families apart. -- tearing families apart. i have been a consistent supporter for comprehensive immigration reform which includes the dream act. i have an immigration working group that meets periodically. it is very broad-based. we start our meetings with the

stories of the dreamers and what has happened to their families and how this is just a tragic situation for them. so, i introduced legislation that would allow dreamers to work on capitol hill. all because i think if dreamers were working on capitol hill, and people like senator mccain could hear their stories, we would pass comprehensive immigration reform in a heartbeat. right now, we have the votes to do that, but senator mccain's leadership will not bring it up for a vote. gladmccain: i am really that you mentioned the fact that in 2009, when barack obama was elected, he had 60 votes in teh -- in the scented -- in the senate and an overwhelming majority in the house. barack obama and senator kirkpatrick did not bring up immigration reform?

no, they wanted to bring up obamacare. bill clinton, said it was the craziest thing we have ever done. so, instead of that, they did the stimulus package. they did obamacare. they did a lot of other things that were very damaging to the country. then, i was able to get immigration reform through the united states senate. that is the very big difference between having working groups and talking about it and having legislative accomplishments. and i promise you the dreamers were part of immigration reform, but we also have to have a secure border. and that border is going to be secure with legislation that i was able to get through, including the use of drones and towers and increasing the border patrol. by the way, the border patrol have endorsed me. i am very proud of their endorsement. tim: we hear about securing the border. what does a secure border mean? sen.

-- mean? sen. mccain: well, you can have various statistics that could show that. in israel, they have towers. we are constructing these towers now at about $3 million each. all along our border. i got in the defense authorization bill a requirement that the drones would also be used to patrol the border. we can do it with technology, and additional border patrol personnel. i have worked very closely with the border patrol, and that is why they have endorsed me. i also have the endorsement of our law enforcement for reelection. there is another big issue now lurking out there, manufactured mexican heroin. it is getting across our border and killing people. that means we have to do whatever is necessary to secure that border.

yvonne: we have a social media question from mesa via the public insight network. he says, one major problem i see on the streets are drugs. it is widely reported that these come from across the border. how would you go about stopping this? congresswoman. rep. kirkpatrick: let me first address what it means to have a secure border. we have tribes that are on the border. i have friends who are ranchers down there. the border will be secure when the people down there feel secure. but they don't. this is the very reason we have to pass comprehensive immigration reform, so the border patrol agents can focus on the criminal activity there. and we have got to get this done. yeah, i have zero tolerance for the criminal drug trafficking, the sex trafficking at the border. that is why we need comprehensive immigration reform. yvonne: how do you stop it?

rep. kirkpatrick: by focusing our border patrol agent's attention, time, and resources on the criminal element. sen. mccain: could i just add you go -- add? right now, it takes 18 months for a border patrol agent to apply and become a member. that is wrong. any military member or the veteran should be able to make that transition immediately. it is tough on the border. we should be providing those border patrol agents with hazardous duty with incentive pay. are lots of them would like to be in a nicer environment. it is tough when you're sitting in a vehicle in this type of heat. we need to provide them with the incentive they need. we need to supply them with the support they need. we need technology, which is a major factor. again, i could not be more proud that the border patrol agents have endorsed my candidacy and

are supporting it. by the way come i also fixed their retirement system. yvonne: moving on to our next question about illegal immigration. senator mccain, you criticized senator obama's action. what would you do with these young, undocumented immigrants who were brought to this country as children who were raised american? sen. mccain: i would pass the comprehensive immigration reform through the united states senate. that was a major group of us that got that passed. obviously, it has got to be part of comprehensive immigration reform. terrible things are happening right now to young people from guatemala, el salvador, honduras.

they are being transported by these coyotes and being mistreated on the way. some of them are dying. we have to have them taken care of. some of them are on the top of trains and fall off of trains. and it is a requirement for all of us to have a secure border. right now as we speak, baghdadi is sending secure traps into the refugee flow. sooner or later, they will try to get across our southern border. it has now become a national security issue. yvonne: thank you, senator. congresswoman. rep. kirkpatrick: nearly 15 years ago, john mccain did introduce the dream act. but when it came up for a vote in the senate, he voted against it. i just recently spoke with the business community, entrepreneurs who are bringing economic development to the area. they said trump's idea about building a wall is bad for arizona, but deporting 12

million people, that is personal. sen. mccain: could i just rebut that? i voted because it was not part of comprehensive immigration reform. yvonne: congresswoman, going back to these executive actions, you supported them. the court has found those actions are unconstitutional, but hillary clinton said she would go even further with those protections. do you agree with that stance and which type of protections would you support? rep. kirkpatrick: right now in arizona, we have so many people now with the fear that they might be deported because of the supreme court's action. this is why we have to have a full supreme court. john, right after justice scalia passed away said we should not fill the supreme court for a year because i think the next

president should be filling the position and he was supporting donald trump. we need to have a working supreme court. the decision is an excellent example of that. tim: what do you think, senator? what is going on here with the supreme court and waiting so long? sen. mccain: number of years ago when the situation was reversed. joe biden went to the floor of the senate and said we cannot have a vote. we cannot consider this. let the american people speak. let's not have this. i want joe biden, joe and i disagree on a lot of things. but let the people decide. this vote is one of the most important in history. on this issue of the courts more and more deciding that barack obama is acting unconstitutionally.

he said, i have a pen and i have a phone. this is not the first time on this immigration issue. he is violating his oath of office and the constitution of the united states and i do not say that lightly. yvonne: do you trust either of the major party candidates to appoint a supreme court justice? sen. mccain: the constitution says the president proposes into -- and the senate disposes. i have confidence if we can keep the majority in the united states senate, we will scrutinize and be very, very studious about who we vote for or vote against but the worst thing in my view is a hillary clinton presidency and a majority of democrats in the senate. america could not afford that. it would be tough times. rep. kirkpatrick: i'm not surprised the john mccain support someone from washington and support someone from thereafter he is been there for

33 years. the arizona people are saying, john mccain do your job. do the job your taxpayers are paying you to do. confirm a supreme court justice. john mccain once voted for merrick garland. now he won't even meet with him. we are tired of that kind of obstructionism in washington. sen. mccain: willow beach now has a fish hatchery i got the money for. i 11 which will be a corridor from our southern border to canada. one of the world's largest copper mines in the world. 25% of america's copper supply will be a result of that copper mine, which i got done. the f-35 is now want the air force base. every foreign student that flies the f-35 will be trained at luke air force base.

so i kind of think i can make an argument i'm doing my job. ted: but we still have only eight supreme court justices. sen. mccain: i would much rather have eight supreme court justices than a justice that is liberal in the practice of ruth bader ginsburg, elaina kagan and the others who were liberal in my view. not in keeping with the constitution. their actions, in my view, are not in keeping with my interpretation of the constitution. this is what makes this election very serious. ted: next question involves health care. congresswoman, next year is shaping up to be challenging what. -- a challenging one. it appears there will be just one health insurance company offering exchange plans in 14 of the state's 16 counties. only people county will have two health insurers. you cast your vote for obamacare.

you call that your proudest moment in congress. do you still hold onto that assessment, considering what we we are seeing now with the aca? rep. kirkpatrick: yes but i've always said it is not perfect and we are working together to fix it. i have over 20 years experience as a health care lawyer. i started my own law firm in flagstaff. i represented a medical center, the emergency room, many other position so i have a good understanding of what is it all. -- what is involved. it is key to have an insurance company in the marketplace. when i first heard about the possibility that we would only have one carrier, i contacted the director and said, we need a plan to make sure that everybody has a choice. when i heard that and was -- when i heard that at the -- that at the was pulling out, i

talked to blue cross-blue shield in and they agreed to go in and provide coverage. this is in example of something we could have been doing the last six years and some continuing to repeal obamacare. over 60 times. we should of been working to fix it. john mccain's plan would add $187 billion to the deficit, make oath care more expensive for women because it would take away coverage for cancer screening and contraception. he even cosponsored a bill that would allow a in employer to fire a single woman who got pregnant. ted: 45 seconds rebuttal. sen. mccain: nonsense. the point is now congresswoman kirkpatrick wants is to work -- kirkpatrick wants us to work together to fix it. the problem is that for the first time in history, a major entitlement reform was rammed the congress of the

united states without a single vote from the other side. i fought for weeks he had weeks and weeks against obamacare and they would not allow in amendment. there was not a single amendment allowed. nothing from the minority party. we were then in the minority . now congresswoman kirkpatrick wants us to work together. there is how we work together. we repeal and replace it. right now it is so bad that the former president of the united states, bill clinton, said it was the craziest thing he ever heard of. obamacare. so, we can fix the health system but it was based on a flawed premise, and that was we would take money from healthy young americans and spend it for the health care of less well, older americans. by the way, there is 14 of the 15 counties in arizona that have only one health care provider and that is the one that barack obama and congresswoman kirkpatrick said, if you like your policy you can keep it. ted: ok. we got your rebuttal time. congresswoman, response.

the idea -- it's got problems, repeal it, get it out of there, replace it. rep. kirkpatrick: i was at a wedding not long ago and the father of the rightful be assigned, tears streamed down, and said, you know i am a republican. you know what voted against you because of your health care vote. he said i would not be here today to walk my daughter down the aisle if you had not voted for health care. i do not want to go back to the days when somebody was a pre-existing -- with a pre-existing condition would have died and not unable to walk his daughter down the aisle. but we do have to fix it. no question about it. we need to address the increasing cost of research and drugs. sen. mccain: the majority of americans do not approve of obamacare and 29% say they have been harmed by obamacare. so i know you meet nice people

at weddings, but the fact is the majority of the american people have resoundingly rejected obamacare and as far as pre-existing conditions are concerned, we could have risk pools to take care of those people, nobody is ready to abandon them. yvonne: thousands of people have been in short -- have been insured because of the affordable care act but many are paying much more than they used to for the same care or worse care. so what is your message to them? rep. kirkpatrick: i just heard from man who went private insurance, and his insurance rates this year were going to be $3650 month and he said thank heavens he was able to get insurance through obamacare and his premiums are about $500 a month. sen. mccain: blue cross-blue shield has announced a are going to have a 65% increase in their charges. the co-pays and the deductibles

are skyrocketing out of sight and that is why 21 million americans were predicted to have been part of obamacare and only 9 million american samples they -- million americans have. the whole thing is collapsing like a house of cards. ted: would the whole thing had collapsed like a house of cards as you described it if congress, instead of repeatedly trying to repeal it? sen. mccain: we will work hard to improve it by because of a flawed premise, we had to scrap it and start over. it was based on the wrong idea that we were going to penalize young people. those young people would rather pay the fine. by the way, i have legislation that if there is only one health care as there is in 14 of 15 arizona counties, they should not have to pay a fine. there is no choice. there is no doctor they like they can keep. it is a scam. the problem is the cost is

becoming prohibitive and we have got to change it and fix it. ted: on to our next question regarding the economy. senator mccain, this is for you. since great recession, the u.s. has seen some recovery but rebound has been sluggish. what is your plan to accelerate job growth? what is your plan to accelerate the economy? sen. mccain: regulations and regulations and regulations. the tens of has regulations that have come out of the obama administration, whether they call arizona having navigable waters and washes and dry gulch es. shutting down our power grants. our coal-fired power plants which was incredibly expensive to literally regulating just about every aspect of our lives . when you look at the regulations that have been an issue of her obamacare, they are about this

high. how many hours they can work, whether or not they can work, whether or not they are eligible aliens this and that. micromanagement. let's turn the government back to our governor and legislature and let's let the state decide these issues. 25,000 regulations have come out of this administration. since the only have four months left, i am going to tell you, and you ain't seen nothing yet. ted: 45 second rebuttal, carlos -- congresswoman. rep. kirkpatrick: i was raised in the mountains, at that time there was a thriving timber industry. when that nearly plunged into poverty, it has been my vision in and work for air is honored -- for arizona to build a strong, diverse economy. we have gone through too many boom and bust cycles. we cannot have that kind of economy until we first told a just first build a world-class education system here and we pass apprehensive immigration reform. sen. mccain: let me mention to

-- mention discover issues -- thaton two and choose determine the future of arizona. fire and water. we need to thin our forest. we need to make tough decisions on water. i am glad to work with congresswoman kirkpatrick and anyone else. we have to work together because the issue is going to determine the future of our children and grandchildren and i am proud to work with jon kyl on a number of indian what are settlements which are critical to the supply of water and arizona. yvonne: you talk about results, but how do we resolve to thousand seven bush era of economic regulation and taxes? sen. mccain: the collapse of

2008 did not have a lot to do with government regulation. it had to do with the housing industry as we know. that is what arizona was so badly hurt and that is why we are one of the slowest to recover, because we love the housing industry to go completely out of control and obviously the stock market went with it and arizona suffered a right deal from it and the measures we had to take were very difficult. the reasons we have not recovered sufficiently as we have from other recessions is because of this government caused micromanagement of the economy and the government regulations that have stifled -- let me give you an example. if you cut the number of hours per week that a person can work and also not be eligible for obamacare, then you're causing the employer to do things which make it difficult to really get -- make a profit and hire different individuals. just hire additional individuals. -- hire additional individuals. ted: that was the idea that you are regulations against tax cuts were not a factor in the 2008-2007 recession. do you buy that?

rep. kirkpatrick: i am not buying that. i saw some money families suffer. in flagstaff, an entire cul-de-sac, every house was being foreclosed on. it really hurt families. it did not hurt the people on wall street who made more money. i mean, donald trump said it was an opportunity. a business opportunity for him. there was a day when john mccain was a maverick and would stand up to his party but now he has taken more money from wall street than any other sitting senator. he gave them the bailout. i have always opposed the bailout. sen. mccain: there's a reason this is the slowest recovery in history. that is because the stewardship of the economy in the last eight years. it really isn't a lot more complicated than that. yvonne: we are going to mix it up. knowing people can go to your websites for details, one-word answer.

arizonans are going to be asked whether they want to increase the minimum wage to $12 by 2020. yes or no, do you support? sen. mccain: no. rep. kirkpatrick: yes. ted: that worked pretty well. i thought we would have to rate -- i thought we would have to rein u.n. but you did well. thank you. yvonne: it has been in turmoil regardless of what you have done massive reforms to try to fix the myriad of problems. a recent auditor general's report, we wrote about it extensively in the arizona republic, it is critical of the agency and have found patients are unable to get to their appointments in a timely manner. you have not fixed the problems, congress has not fix the -- congress has not fixed the problems. why not and how do you fix it? rep. kirkpatrick: i was the first member of congress to ask for an independent investigation.

i worked to protect against retaliation. so my whistleblower protection act just past the house. it is those -- of those people who are brave had not come forward, we would not know what was going on at the va hospital. i just finished a round of visits to all three of our the a hospitals -- of our v.a. hospitals.

prescott, phoenix, tucson. after i did that, i hadn't veterans round table because i want to hear what digs rinses with the veterans hospital and administration. in tucson, having mike veterans roundtable, john mccain was on the radio blaming the veteran service organization for the problems at the the eight -- at the va hospital. that is not going to fix the problem. we need to work in a bipartisan way for our veterans. we need to fight for them with all of our might. sen. mccain: i have been honored by every service organization. how can this terrible thing happen and the tragedy and unix of 50 brave veterans dying on a waiting list. i was asked to work with bernie sanders, then the chairman of the veterans affairs committee. we worked hard. it was tough. we made some significant reforms, among them are the choice program. veterans, under certain conditions, is able to go out and get health care from a provider. so far over 5 million appointments have been made. that was legislation that senator sanders and i work on and was able to get through congress. there is a terrible problem in america today and that is veteran suicide. a thousand veterans in america commit suicide every day. 22 every day. i pass the clay can't suicide prevention act thanks to the

family members of clay hunt, a young man who committed suicide. we are working on this issue. by the way, i am proud of the city of phoenix for not having homeless veterans. ted: congressman kirkpatrick, the idea of a new director of -- vaoenix the a hospital hospital is not unusual. we have had seven in the past two years. your thoughts on the latest who has troubles? rep. kirkpatrick: i had an opportunity to meet her. i know as a woman how difficult it is to rise up in the ranks in any organization so i welcomed her to arizona. i want to give her a chance. ted: you want to give her a chance, senator? sen. mccain: i'm afraid so. it is an indictment of the system, my friend. to have seven heads of the va hospital in phoenix and seven years? i think she is a great deal to prove and i am willing to give

her a chance also but frankly, the whole system cries out. look, in denver, colorado, the v.a. try to build a hospital. -- tried to build a hospital. think how many veterans could be treated with that kind of money and finally again, i want a veteran to have the same choice that someone on medicare does. go to their physician or health care provider of your choice if you can't go to the the a hospital. yvonne: of care deeply about. this is related to terrorism and national security. senator, over the past year we have seen terrorist attacks on u.s. cities from coast to coast. how do you plan on keeping arizonans save from attacks inspired or sponsored by isil? sen. mccain: as we speak,

baghdadi is giving people encrypted apps i told you about. there is also the self-radicalized ones. young men sitting on these internet right now being self-radicalized. willing to take the lives of others. first, we have to go to raqqa. we can do it with a small number of americans. there is an ideological struggle we are involved in to try to stop this radical islam which the president of the united states refuses to call islamic terrorism. we are going to have this fight. the problem is, due to barack obama's failure, leading from behind, isis has missed us a size throughout the world. north africa, malaysia, indonesia, other places because when america leads from behind , some other really bad people

lead from in front. we need a leader who will lead. yvonne: thank you. rep. kirkpatrick: we have to keep our country safe. isis has to be destroyed. it is a two-prong approach. went to take out their leadership and prevent them from exporting terror. john mccain's solution is to send in more trips anytime there is a crisis. send in more trips. -- send in more troops. i don't want to send in more trips and until we have a plan to bring them home and a plan to take care of them wants to get home. sen. mccain: i was the one who said we were losing the war in iraq and we had to have the surge. i wanted the secretary of defense fired. that was with george w. bush. thanks to service and sacrifice, we won. then barack obama called -- obama pulled everybody out. the rest is history, as al qaeda became a isis and went to syria and morphed. it did not have to happen.

ted: prescribed by president? -- by president bush? sen. mccain: the line that is being told -- the lie that is being told is that somehow we had to pull them out. it is not true. i was in baghdad with lindsey graham and joe lieberman. they were ready to stay. but obama said that they needed to have a status of forces agreement. now we have 5000 american troops there. where is the requirement for the status of forces agreement? it is not there and not necessary and we are doing it incrementally which is a lot of , it is know a little bit called mission. ted: congresswoman, you want to see trips back in iraq? now.mccain: 5400 there they are in syria as well. gradually escalating. these same that barack obama said we are living behind the freest, safest, and most of a -- most democratic iraq.

day 100,000 persons force, because americans have special kinds of capabilities, including air support and others. go in and take raqqa. you can do that in a short. short period of time. rep. kirkpatrick: it was not -- it was george w. bush and john mccain knows that because in 2010 he put out on twitter, congratulations to president bush for the pullout and how happy was that was accomplished. he is not telling the truth. sen. mccain: i argued on the floor and predicted what would happen. he did not pull them all out. they were not pulled all out until barack obama became president of the united states. ted: congresswoman? rep. kirkpatrick: it is funny we spent so much of the debate talking about the national

issues. it doesn't surprise me because john mccain is the running for president. i am running to be arizona senator. i would like to talk about things that are important to arizonans, like jobs. ted: we did talk about the economy earlier. right now we're out of time. it has been a lively debate. it is now closing statements. earlier we drew numbers to determine the order of closing statements. were presented of ann kirkpatrick one that draw. -- representative ann draw.trick won that it would be an honor to serve as -- rep. kirkpatrick: it would be an honor to serve as your next senator. my arizona roots are deep. on both sides of my family, we have been here 100 years. i have always put arizona first. what is remarkable is that i, like hundreds of thousands of other arizonans, once voted for john mccain.

but i am disappointed. he has changed since he is been in washington for 33 years. you see, he once authored the dream act and then he voted against it. he supported comprehensive immigration reform and now he has campaigned on build the fence. he once fought against corrupting money in politics. now, he has taken more money from wall street ban any other sitting senator. it would be an honor. arizonans have a choice in this election. i would be honored to have your vote. thank you so much. ted: thank you. now senator john mccain. sen. mccain: thank you for your professional questions, it has been an honor. i appreciated. congresswoman kirkpatrick is right, i have changed. i understand the issues and challenges facing arizona. i've traveled everywhere. i have the endorsement of 52 mayors in arizona. you know?

that does not mean i have left, it means they trust me and i trust him because they are the people i talk to where i can understand the challenges. look, i came here 35 years ago and i have made a home and a family. i have been so blessed by the people of arizona who have taken me and my family in. i believe serving a cause greater than one's own self-interest is the greatest anyone can do. i say to the people of arizona , thank you. i hope you will send me back. ted: thank you so much. that does it for now at this special section of the 2016 debate, brought to you by the arizona pbs in the arizona republic. thank you to the candidates. thanks to the members of the public who sent in questions and

thank you for watching. i am ted simons. please stay tuned for continued coverage of the 2016 election. have a great evening. ♪ >> our look at state races continues tuesday at 7:30 eastern. faces --pat mccoury west virginia lieutenant governor and democratic challenger jim justice debate in the senate governors race. on c-span3, for some congas meant democratic brad ashford faces done bacon and nebraska's second district race. their live at seven: 30 p.m. eastern on c-span networks. >> coming up on c-span, the candidates vying to replace

congresswoman ann kirkpatrick -- mike pence campaign is in charlotte north carolina. ♪ >> c-span's washington journal, live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. coming up tuesday morning, the latest developments in the presidential campaign following the second debate. looking at key house races and what to look for in the weeks ahead. plus, we will look at media bias with tim graham of the media research center hand media matters for america president. c-span washington journal, live beginning at 7:00 a.m. tuesday morning. join the discussion. >> now, a debate between the candidates for arizona's first congressional district.

the seat is currently held by ann kirkpatrick who is challenging senator john mccain. this is hosted by arizona pbs public affairs program, arizona horizons. ♪ >> welcome to this special election edition of arizona horizon. i am ted simon. tonight is a debate, we will hear from candidates competing to represent congressional district one. as with all debates, this is not a formal exercise, it is an open exchange of ideas.

as such, interjections are allowed provided that all sides get a fair shake. it is the 10th largest congressional district in the country, stretching just north of tucson, taking in much of eastern arizona. 25% of the population is american indian. the seat is being vacated. we now move on to our debate. the candidates, paul babeu and tom o'halloran. it's candidate will have a minute for opening and closing statements. mr. o'halloran: every weekend, i watched my father put together a notebook of what was going to occur with his ability to provide for our family in the coming week.

the bottom line here is that i had a strong sense of hard work, ethics, and community. what is happening in america today and arizona today is a dysfunctional congress. we have to nature we start working for middle-class families and working-class families of america again, taking into account what our children need. i worked on child protective services, education issues successfully bringing people together and unifying them. moderator: thank you. now we turn to paul babeu. mr. babeu: you may know me as a sheriff of pinal county. our job is to protect families, protect arizona and we have done a good job at that with the largest drug busts in the history of arizona, fighting the sinoloa cartel.

i served one tour in iraq. ion for enforcing the law, securing our border, and protecting america. i do not feel our nation is more secure or safe than it was eight years ago. our economy is struggling. national debt is $20 trillion. we have to fix our country. i will be a part of the solutions for our country of lowering taxes and regulation and putting america first. moderator: thank you. let's get it going. tom, why you for this position and not in? mr. o'halloran: i have represented this district before.

[indiscernible] education, health care. i have a successful record for legislature. i sometimes work against my leadership and with them to provide solutions. and make sure that working families are thought of first. i believe that my skill set and experience in law enforcement and business allen weh to have the perspective to be but to do that. moderator: same question. mr. babeu: this is about jobs in our economy and clearly, i am not -- and a lot of people are struggling to make ends meet. in the government has become too large and too costly, evidenced by $20 trillion deficits. we have to cut spending. we cannot continue to think that we are going to spend our way into prosperity or tax away. that has failed here, that has failed nationally. i am an outsider, not just as a sheriff that coming from -- you look at -- i have asked for more

money because i provide a core service. i had an 8% budget cut in the last two years. i have had to keep 53 vacancies in the sheriff's office. nobody could convince me in washington that we cannot cut back, set priorities, and live within our means because this is really threatens not just our economy and it hurts the taxpayer while 95 million americans are out of work. it threatens national security. moderator: when you get back to washington, cutting back on spending in general, mr. o'halloran, is it a priority? mr. o'halloran: is it a priority? investing in our future is a priority, making sure we live within our means is a priority. i am not going to have as of the cut across the board when we have education issues to deal with, addressing our infrastructure needs, addressing the security of our nation whether it is with our military or our borders -- these are

prime areas that we have to invest in in the future. we have to protect the american citizens, and my record identifies clearly that i can do that. i cut taxes for business -- property taxes to 20%. personal incomes, $500 million for small business and people throughout the state. and for our corporations -- so, i have that experience and i have that background. moderator: cutting where appropriate as opposed to just cutting? mr. babeu: when you hear these words as investing, that is called more of the same. that is not going to fix our country. that is not going to bring trillions of dollars that are offshore back to the united states and grow and bill johnson -- grow and build jobs in the united states. how do we do that? we cut taxes. literacy reduce all these tax practice into three main categories for every taxpayer and also, the corporate tax. this is different. some people say, that is not going to help.

we are going to have less money for the government and if you believe in that concept i am not the guy to vote for. i am the guy that says, get government out of the way and allow for the job creators which are small business to create the jobs, create opportunity, and that is where too much costly regulation has really strangled our economy and jobs. moderator: someone argued that government was pushed too far out of the way during the last years of the bush administration and we went of having an economic crisis. mr. babeu: look at perfect example right here in arizona, when we had nationally on that point fannie mae, freddie mac, and you see that all of these loans that are propped up by the government and you see this housing crash and collapsed take place and our government was the party for this, picking winners and losers. what i am saying is when you have here in arizona the forest service, the epa, that have come in in the name of trying to protect our environment what

they have done and a lot of us have talked about it, mine still that's the goal king mine spell will. goal king minds destroying our environment -- when you see the forest service that, while they are saying that they want to protect the forest, 20% of forests have been destroyed in the last 12 years and we are not able to environmentally safely -- that can also compliment lumber and industry. moderator: response? mr. o'halloran: paul has not cut taxes in his career and i have. i have cut taxes to improve their working conditions of small businesses in arizona. paul has not had a run a small business like i have in nature suree -- i have and made that paychecks go out to the workers in that business, making sure that we expand that business and i have a lot of experience both in the private sector and the government sector and making sure that we do not

over regulate across factor. i want to make sure that that cost factor does not pass on to our business is to hinder their ability to hire our citizens -- mr. babeu: i can tell you that what i have not done to cause this is very important because we are talking about going from being a republican and you lost your election because you voted for massive budget increases under governor -- governor napolitano. governor brewer told me, watch out, because 64% increase in our state budget. the reason we had to sell our state capital, the senate, the legislature is because we did not have money and after you left office and so, we have had to live with that, a structurally and balanced budget. the governor's fighting for our recovery. it is not about spending more money and is much as you like to say you cut taxes, the record shows that massive increases in spending -- 64%. that is the wrong philosophy of 72 washington at the time when we are about to collapse --

moderator: response? mr. o'halloran: i just saw that one of your fundraisers. taxing tom. we have almost one million people enter this state while i was in the legislature, a 20 7% inflation -- we had to pay to $2 billion worth of funding for our schools in maintenance that had been deferred. we have dealt with a lawsuit of almost $600 million and we put more money into our universities and colleges and our k-12 education system to improve the future of our children and dealt with child protective service reform and the ability of overcharging to be appropriately -- have health care. and many more have -- including $10 million a year into border security. moderator: at the very least can you use of those numbers as the population increases as it did and when inflation increases ? mr. babeu: you are talking to a sheriff who has responsibility

for public safety in the fastest-growing county in our state. one of the fastest growing counties in america. my budget did not grow by 64%. it has been cut back. it has been cut back 8%. that is millions of dollars. you cannot just say, our state is growing and we have to increase spending by 64%. that is how we got into this mess. we had to sell all of these government buildings. one of the first since a -- things the governor said was this was embarrassing for our state. i want the legislature to buy back the building -- the ninth story tower that even the governor's office was in -- my god -- that is fiscally irresponsible. mr. o'halloran: we cut budgets when they were needed to be cut. in good times, we cut taxes and improved our infrastructure in the state, improved our children's future. the whole concept because governor brewer says that she was in trouble doesn't mean that it was because of what occurred before.

we improved the entire -- we went from a rating in the legislature that was in the mid-teens according to the capital times to over 50%. the people that stayed new that things were being done for them and their futures. you can always cut but the idea is to prioritize cuts so you do not hinder the future of america and when you do deal with these mortgages in america -- and the republican senate -- the republican congress, and a republican president should have dealt with those issues for six years. mr. babeu: i can tell you here because you took these thoughts -- you took these of votes. when you were fired from your job as a legislator, the leaders in the state had to pay off this debt. not just for the buildings -- we had the highest per capita debt per citizen of any state. we all remember the catastrophe, the billions and billions of dollars in california and to try to get out of that mess. we were in further debt per

capita than they were. i do want to raise the issue of coal and jobs. we have four coal-fired generating stations. they happen to be in this district. i want to make a credit i will fight to preserve coal as an energy source. we have heard hillary say that she was too close coal mines and -- and unemploy these miners. everybody pays a letter, right? -- everybody pays electric, moderator: let's get to the coal industry and the environment. mr. o'halloran: i do not want the coal industry to pass by. i have gone around the state saying we're going to protect jobs. it was this regulatory

environment that the epa put forward without talking to our local communities, without understanding the need of over school districts, without understand the long-term viability of the national energy plan and not as a country, whether it has been in the last decade or two decades, investing seriously in clean technology. we need to do those things. mr. o'halloran: you cannot have -- mr. babeu: you cannot have it both ways. you saidte we were in, publicly that you supported the epa's plan. mr. o'halloran: no -- [speaking simultaneously] mr. o'halloran: what i have been reporting across the people that represent the factories is that i am against the epa regulatory environment and just what i said is what i have been -- is a consistent story. mr. babeu: let me share a story. we were both in holbrook.

we talked to train conductors and engineers and i don't know if you remember but one third of them were on furlough. i do not know if you know but one third of them are on furlough. you can ask scott, the union president and they recollect that you told them that you do not trust the republicans to clean up the pollution in the environment and therefore you support the clean power plant. [speaking simultaneously] mr. o'halloran: you had gone -- you had gotten their late. that is not what i told them. they recollect. [speaking simultaneously] mr. babeu: almost everyone i am -- everyone in that room were democrats. they voted almost unanimously to

endorse me. they gave me a $5,000 check and the reason why is we know you are going to fight for coal as an energy source. you are going to fight for our jobs. mr. o'halloran: every other unit that represents workers have endorsed me and i have -- mr. babeu: you cannot continue to say something in one group and go to a different group -- mr. o'halloran: you say who recollects? how many of them? the bottom line -- mr. babeu: what were they endorse? -- why would they endorse -- why would they endorse? mr. o'halloran: -- most unions are going to support democratic candidates that i came to speak and it is when the few opportunities i was given to speak to a union and i won them over thomas unanimously in their own democrats because they know that i will fight the epa and i will send to the president just as i did on the second amendment which i understand you have changed your position on the second amendment -- moderator: hold on -- have you changed your position? mr. o'halloran: i have been endorsed by the nra multiple

times. i believe terrorism -- terrorists should not get -- be allowed a loophole to purchase firearms in america today. i believe that felons should not be allowed a loophole to purchase firearms. mr. babeu: -- that the henry has unanimously endorsed me? mr. o'halloran: if any little change in the process will move to the direction. --[speaking simultaneously] mr. babeu: -- president obama face-to-face. anderson cooper called and said, i know you are a critic of president obama. when it comes to lack of security. he said, i would like to have the on the town hall with the president and i said, i get to ask the president directly? i came on and i said to the president because he tries to make this argument -- false arguments. that any executive action or any infringement on the second amendment freedom where you were a police officer in chicago --

you should know this. moderator: please -- let him respond. [speaking simultaneously] mr. o'halloran: people should be allowed protection in their homes and in their cars. i agree with all of that. i do not believe that people who are felons and terrorists should have any ability legally to secure weapons and i worked as an undercover officer to make sure the weapons were off the street. mr. babeu: i am scratching my head because you used to be against obama care. he used to have a different position and a questionnaire about the nra, tom o'halloran is dark. moderator: i need a response, please. mr. o'halloran: i knew that they were against the loophole changes. why fill out a questionnaire that would allow them to do -- again, i am a public safety -- i

took and growth of office or public safety. i am not going to do away with the second amendment and i believe that we need -- [indiscernible] moderator: we need to move on because we are running out of time. i want to get to a general question regarding -- it has been brought up before this debate. you then became an independent . you are now a democrat. why should voters trust that you have a commitment to ideals when you get back to washington? mr. o'halloran: because it is the same ideals that i worked on before. the ideal is simple. to be able to represent the people of congressional district one. those were never questioned when i was in the legislature. no part of my public policy has ever been questioned about representing the people before the party with the people before leadership. i lost my chairmanship because i thought for people. -- because i fought for people. i lost my bills because i fought for people.

the idea than i am not going to fight for the citizens of the district is ridiculous. moderator: [indiscernible] mr. babeu: i do not buy that. he did represent a district in a , we dorict and he said not like what you're doing and you are fired because of all your taxing, your growing of the budget -- 64% -- you cannot have it both ways and then, then he ran as an independent just two years ago and now the very month he said he were going to run for congress, that is a political opportunist. [speaking simultaneously] mr. o'halloran: you cannot have math and not acknowledge the real math. the real math is 27% inflation. set aside issues that for decades we needed to take care of. 20% growth in our population -- [indiscernible] mr. o'halloran: the real numbers are, how many children were impacted? [indiscernible] [speaking simultaneously] moderator: hold on, gentlemen. there have been questions about

you two. regarding the school in massachusetts that is being investigated. the attorney general having to investigate alleged allegations of deporting a mexican man threatening to reveal details of your personal life -- and now you have got the fbi looking at ricoh funds. mr. babeu: now, this is the reality of the situation. i had an eight way primary and we spent $4 million and i am merged with all of these candidates talking about these things -- this has gone on for years. the day i win, tom and his allies instead of introducing in -- introducing him and what he stands for attack me. listen to my response. mr. o'halloran: your inability to tell the truth about the fact that you knew everything that was going on -- mr. babeu: well, let me answer that -- [indiscernible]

mr. babeu: 1700 page investigation that proves that that is not the case. i was not deposed unit there was no finding of anybody responsible. so, that is the case. this is the democrats tried to -- democrats trying to say and do whatever they can to win. mr. o'halloran: -- my statements you today. as an investigator -- mr. babeu: -- your state -- mr. o'halloran: i've had statements time and time again on cases. video comes out with a person testified on their own words that yes, i knew everything -- [indiscernible] [speaking simultaneously] mr. babeu: this was a school for kids that were expelled or incarcerated. that gives you a sense of the school. i was there two years out of 30 years. the investigation started years before i was there and concluded

after i left. i was never named in any of this stuff. nobody was found -- moderator: the argument was that you were headmaster and executive director. if he did not know, you should have. mr. babeu: we talked about that before. here this investigation found no weapon. mr. o'halloran: -- they closed the school. [indiscernible] moderator: no, we haven't. people are worried about you because you switched parties. people that were about you because of these high-level investigations and allegations. mr. babeu: how is it a surprise --

moderator: how would you respond to somebody -- mr. babeu: i tell you, people know we not just as a sheriff, as an army veteran, why on earth would i get, this year, and -- this year and award by a committee and arizona, and superintendents, as a year of -- as a hero of public education? why with recognized nationally as a protector of children? this is what i have done -- this is why it is such a personal affront to me. moderator: i understand that. with these kind of high-level investigations, would you not be concerned? the state of massachusetts look at it. mr. babeu: that is different than what you said. they found there was nothing there -- [speaking simultaneously] moderator: the same question goes to you. how would she feel about a candidate running for office who critics say is taking apart by

convenience? mr. o'halloran: i would say this, what have they done? if they have taken a look at their party and said, i think you are wrong and i going to -- i am going to make sure the children of our state are protected. i would trust that. i would trust my past actions and a need to understand that paul lied. moderator: we have to stop there. each candidate will now have a one minute closing statement. going in reverse order of the opening statements, we start with paul. mr. babeu: it is a great honor to serve our community and state , to put arizona first in every regard, to put america first. that is what i have done as a sheriff, 20 years. also in the army. served as a private, working my way up to a major, serving in iraq. i put the safety and security of our nation first. that is not the case by this administration.

i want to put arizonans and our jobs first. coal and prevent a 30 plus percent increase in rates that we play for utilities -- rates that we pay for utilities. so, i am on the side of reducing taxes, cutting regulations, part of the paul ryan plan if there is a better way for our country. if you want that, if you want a better way into greater opportunity for our country, then i ask for your support. it is my privilege to serve you. thank you. now,ow, -- moderator: and tom o'halloran. mr. o'halloran: i am on the side hours with the families. i have improved the schools in arizona until the republicans came in and decimated funding. i have looked at our infrastructure in the state. i have worked on making sure

that our forests are cared for in our water is taking care for. most importantly i have a record that shows i worked with people -- i will work with anybody from either party whoever the president is -- you name it -- for the betterment of the citizens of district one, i will be there for them because they always have been and i want to think the voters and make sure that we understand that i'm the best choice for congressional district one because the record on which to stand for that. moderator: thank you so much. thank you candidates. thank you for watching this debate featuring candidates from arizona's congressional district one. that is it for now. i am ted simon. thank you for joining us. you have a great evening. ♪

>> our look at the races continues today at 7:00 p.m. eastern. on c-span, north carolina governor patrick worry faces democrat roy krupa. republican bill cole and the mimetic challenger businessman jim justice debate in the state's governor's race. on c-span3, democrat brad faces republican don bacon in nebraska's second district race. debate, live at 7:00 p.m. eastern on the c-span networks. c-span's washington journal, and every day with news policy issues that impact you. coming up this morning, national journal political editor josh on the latest development of the presidential campaign following their second debate and also will look at key senate and house races and what to look for in the weeks ahead. we will look at media bias against the presidential campaign cycle

with tim grant of the media research center and media matters for america president probably they talk. c-span's washington journal, 7:00 eastern this morning. join the discussion. oftoday, a look at the state the arab world, the center for a strategic and international -- thatpost the former is live at 11:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. ♪ >> initially, when i was trying to come up with my documentary , i was a little bit adopted because there were so many different elements out and it isput into it a lot of information to try to communicate in seven minutes, but then i took a step back and realize it is just like a visual essay. i have been writing essays all throughout high school and so, it was something that became a little less daunting as i looked

at it from that perspective of just gathering information and instead of writing that information, i am filming it. i would urge anybody who was thinking about making a piece for studentcam to reach out to as many different people as they could to get a lot of interviews, get as many perspectives as they can because there are experts out there that are so much more knowledgeable about the subject than you are. that youf those people can get in your piece, the more credibility your piece is going to have. it is not just going to be a high school student trying to solve this massive problem, it turns into you are contributing useful information by compiling all of these different perspectives. >> this year's theme, your message to washington, d.c. tell us what is the most urgent issue for the new president and congress to address in 2017? this is open to all middle school and high school students

with money awarded in cash prizes. students can work alone or in a group of up to three to produce a five to seven minute documentary on the issue is. include c-span programming and opposing opinions. in $100,000 in cash prizes will be awarded and shared between 150 students at 53 teachers. the grand prize, $5,000, will go to the student or teen with the best overall entry. his year's deadline is january 20, 2017. mark your calendars and help us spread the word to student film makers. go tore information, our website. republican lieutenant governor phil scott faces former vermont secretary of transportation, democrat sue minter, and liberty union candidate, bill lee of the former boston red sox. this is a 90 minute debate. life from the studios l --ive

from the studios of vermont. the vermont vote 2015 a debate. the candidates for governor's debate the top issues in this important election season. here is moderator joe monroe. moderator: good evening, everyone, and welcome to tonight debate for governor. i will be moderating tonight debate for the three candidates on the vermont ballot who are vying to become vermont newest governor. let me introduce them to you now. first, bill lee, an independent party candidate. democrat sue minter is rotenberg. phil scott is from vermont. introduce the bureau chief of the -- questions will come from i thought, from neil and later on in the portion, in the later

portion of the program, from the studio audience. questions will be introduced to all candidates, each having one minutes answer. there may be a follow-up and rebuttal time devoted to each topic, and at the end, it one minute piece. -- a one minute piece. welcome, candidates to you all. if elected on november 8, you are going to have less than two months before you are sworn in. two months to assemble a team, set your agenda, and you will have a new legislator, legislature, and a new -- how are you going to hit the ground running? how you going to get to it, mr. lee? i have a lot of friends in this state that i take advice from and i believe they will all

help me out, you know. i did not come here seeking this job. it was press upon me by the liberty union party. they came to me and said, you have to run. this is an open seat. we need change in this state and you are the change. i am a guy that is going lead you out of the woods. i am gone hunting, leading out of the woods, i do the travis roy foundation. all i do in this state is answer the phone and help people out. i believe i am the best candidate for that because i am neither a democrat nor a republican, and i am not your problem, i am your solution. moderator: next up? ms. minter: i am going to begin by pulling together a strong team of leaders because that is what i do well, bring together teams, set up our challenges, face our challenges, establish goals, and achieve those goals.

i am going to bring a team together to focus on the budget and on our mission, which is to create jobs and economic opportunity for vermonters to support middle-class families and their kids and give them the opportunity to live, work, and stay right here in vermont. this is a critical time in our state. too many vermonters are struggling, just to make ends meet, because wages are not keeping up with the cost of living. 43%n in this economy work of women work full-time still cannot meet their basic needs. we need to change this story. i am going to be a governor with a great team, leading us forward for a better future. mr. scott, how are you going to hit the ground running? gov. scott: by doing just that. the first day is not a day for vacation. it is a day for getting to work. i have been working my whole adult life trade i have been 35 years in business.

during that time, i bring people together. i look for talent. i look for team chemistry. that is something i have done with my race team, bringing people together, consensusbuilding, facilitating a team that will work together in order to rise to the challenge, the challenge we face, of course, our economy. this crisis of affordability we face in vermont is real. it is going to take a lot of us pulling in the same direction in order to a congress what we need to accomplish. that is really focusing on the budget, trying to develop that, in a short period of time, and i will be bringing together a lot of talented individuals. they have already shown interest in trying to bring vermont forward. moderator: the two of you have mentioned the budget already. by all accounts, the budget you will have to be facing is a $40 million deficit. if we have to raise taxes or

fees, to cover this deficit, what are they going to be? if we have to cut something, what is it going to be? question for the three of you, a $40 million budget deficit, mr. scott. to guess at have this. i will not propose or sign a budget that grows faster than the economy did in the previous year. mr. scott: or wages grew in the previous year. this has been selling that has been a problem for the last seven years. the legislature has adopted a method of being overoptimistic in their growth expectations, and during that time, they have raised taxes and fees and raised the spending limits to about $700 million over the last seven years. i propose that we look back to last year, we do not have to guess at this. we look back at last year, see what wages grew, and with the economy grew, and if it grew 1%, then we cap the growth of the budget to 1%.

it is as simple as that. we'll find efficiencies. we will modernize state government. we will find the will to get through this without raising taxes and fees. moderator: no specifics at the time? mr. scott: i have all kinds of specifics. you can go to my website and see all of this. $40 million budget deficit. ms. minter: i have managed a $600 million budget, balanced that budget every year, as i ran the transportation agency first as deputy, then as secretary, and i know what it takes. we had every year, changes in whether the federal dollars were going to come or not, and i know it takes scenario planning, i know it takes twice as between what we spend and what we don't, and how we prioritize, but i want to say one thing that is has nott because phil mentioned what he is planning to cut. we know last year, when the budget was presented and the republicans in the house

presented how they were going to balance the budget, they proposed cuts to childcare subsidies. cuts to affordable housing. cut to college tuition payments. cuts to our state colleges. they even cut the commission on women. those are not the way that i think are going to support middle-class families and support our economy. mr. lee: i think our biggest problem is the fact that the whole paradigm is wrong. we have got to many big farms, bst, all of these pollutants being sprayed on our field, more cancer, more disease in this state, and i believe we have got to go small, get out there, and be more multidimensional, take our large farms, make them small. we are the bread basket of new england. with global warming, we are able to raise grades on every southern exposure. you put your solar panels with your grades and everything else, and you look at the northeast

kingdom, we are doing well up there. why are we doing that? we got out of the box. we are starting to get breweries up there, cheese, peach greens, and you know, that is, they can serve 1000 families. if you get 100 firms like that every year in six years, you can cheat everybody in vermont for a reasonable price and you're going to be able to feed them the right way. you are not going to have additives in your food. how you get it, you get taxes. you tax the bad stuff anemic people eat better and they are not in the hospital, not in the doctor's office and they are strong and moderator: -- let us they of the budget. you are going to be entering office if you win with at least a $40 million budget gap. if you do not cut anything, excuse me, you have to raise revenue. if you're not planning to cut, what will you raise and how we raise it? we know that our

revenues are not keeping up with the projections, but we are, we have a long way to go between now and january. we have to see how the next quarter revenues, and. i have seen extraordinary fluctuations, having watched how the transportation fund has gone up and down. i'm not when you put anything on the table until i know exactly what we are coming up with, and i do know, it changes with every quarter. i think it is important to be saying, "what is going to happen at that time?" what i do know is, what i will not raise, is new sales or service taxes that are going to hurt the middle class. you know, i looked at filled economic -- at phil's economic development plan, and what i saw were taxed breaks for the best tax breaks for the corporations and the wealthy. moderator: is in a governor scott, i want to ask you, you propose a plan to save one penny for every dollar spent. neal: in state government. as you know, there are

contractor obligations that the state has for salaries for health care, things that you will not be able to save a penny on, of which focuses the burden on other areas. knowing you cannot cut a penny from every dollar, which dollars will you be looking at and which programs will you be looking at? mr. scott: that is a goal. we look at it in our own daily lives. we can spend eight penny for every dollar spent. i'm sure we can find savings in state government as well. we are does not looking hard enough. theannot tax our way out of situation we are in. that is what has been happening for the last seven years. sue has proposed a tax on services. she has proposed a carbon tax. she is propose a way of this cap and trade scheme. that is not the way to get ourselves out of the situation we find ourselves in. we are in a hole right now and should stop digging. we should tighten our belts, and some savings and efficiencies within government, and we are going to work our way out of this, but we cannot tax our way

out of this. that is not our way to grow the economy. neal: secretary mentor, you did embrace the idea of at least looking at the sales tax and extending it to services. that was based on the blue-ribbon tax commission report that came out a number of years ago. you mentioned that you were interested in looking at that report, you have put out more specifics saying you are not tax any service that is used by the middle class or largely by the middle class. you have mentioned things like lucian right, airplanes, -- you have mentioned things like limousine rides. what could you see from expanding the tax base to some services? what is the realistic goal here? ms. minter: what have expand that we need to think about our future and what are the taxes that hurt middle-class vermonter's and how can we actually build our economies to support the programs we need?

i have made it very clear and i will say it again, i will not add new sales or service taxes that hurt middle-class vermonters. what i will do is look for those loopholes that are benefiting wealthy people, such as exemptions for lobbyists. exemptions for limousine rides. the interest payment for second homes. are those things that are going to help promote her? what i also want to point out is that phil and his friends in the republican party have been claiming falsely that i have proposed a carbon tax. it is sounding more like it national republican talking points. i want to make it clear that i have a strategy to look at climate change, to address our carbon emission, to build on a very successful program called "the regional greenhouse gas initiative." moderator: we are going to move right to transportation. mr. lee, if you would like to

have a closing comment. mr. lee: raise the minimum for people working. if you go by mcdonald, they say they are going to jump on the $10, they are not going to survive on $10. tax the trash that mcdonald's throws on the side of the road, and bud light, if you want five cents or one cents, raise the tax on the cans to $.10 because go skiing on,at i lynette snowmelt, there is nothing but bud light cans around that's when that's no melts, theret snow is but bud light comes around. they people what they are worth. that is a problem on this planet. we have not done that and we have got to start doing that. downo not expect trickle from reagan. reagan did not work. none of that works. trickle down the not work. that is a prostate disease or something like that because i am telling you, you have got to tax the 2%. bernie was right. bernie has always been right.

i knew it when they were throwing cans at him down on the street. moderator: let us talk about transportation. i do not think anyone would argue that vermont's infrastructure never seems to get the maintenance and the maintenance dollars needed for repair that is needed. furthermore, collusion, climate change concerns, relatively carbon emissions is always an issue. with the gasoline tax, and income, how do we pay for our transportation needs going forward? mr. lee? mr. lee: use the militia. use all the guys at n everything and they are doing that, you take them out, do not send them with theiriran, weapons of mass destruction. the receipts for them. you do not send vermonters out of this state to fight wars. i had to bury two of them up there and every time, their religious rights groups came up the american flag,

fighting for our lives. you take the people in the state, due in the militia, keep your guns, and you go out there and fix the roads. everybody fixes the roads because they are falling apart. go back to the old way we fix roads, with granite. make them the way they used to be. let us make vermont the way it used to look a long time ago. moderator: senator, transportation. ms. minter: i have been working on balancing our transportation budget, a six hundred million dollar budget. we have been having to work on improving maintenance. when i was in the legislature in 2009, we had to find out that bridges were closing in emergency all around the state. we actually did a study and analyzed that we had 20% of our bridges were structurally deficient. we worked bipartisan to come up with a plan. we passed the transportation and

infrastructure bond fund. i had the opportunity to manage the agency and focus on innovation and efficiency. we created a new accelerated its program. we were building bridges faster, cheaper, and smarter. we have gone from having 20% of bridges structurally deficient. i know how to make government work because we have to make sure that we do not like our bridges fall down ever again. moderator: mr. scott, the topic of paying for transportation. mr. scott: this is part of what drove me into politics to begin with. of theas the raid transportation fund of about 20 years ago to the tune of about 50 something million dollars everything will year that was used for other purposes. that is when i decided to step up to run because i thought that we should do better. our roads and structure was failing. during that time, i'm pleased to say during my years in the senate, we were able to reduce that from $50 million down to a to $20nageable 15

million. i think that was a step in the right direction. if you think about it, that was done, that rate of transportation fund was done period.to 20 year if we then invested be if the structure at that time, we would not have that problem today, but i do not believe we should be taxing our way out of this. need to raise the taxes on already burdened vermonters. at this time, we cannot afford to and they cannot afford to. we have to look for a federal initiative to solve this issue. moderator: the future is different, is looking very different with less gasoline used, electric cars, etc. is it time for a mileage tax? alternativeor some tax to help transportation needs? mr. scott: they need to start talking about something different, i agree. not here in vermont. we cannot be doing something different than the rest of the country. i am very focused

and have been for six years on this very matter. it is critically important, not just did to fix our roads and bridges, but to actually help vermonters and americans get out ontheir cars by focusing public transit, by ridesharing, by getting people to walk, by having sidewalks and bike lanes. that is what i have been working on, increasing the use of public transit. we are going to need to change peoples driving behavior and get more people into electric cars. this is going to make and a norm is change in how we reduce our carbon emissions. you know what? transportation is 46% of our carbon footprint here in vermont. that is why i have proposed a plan to build on the successful regional greenhouse gas initiative started under governor douglas to build transportation into this. we can work together as a region to help reduce carbon emissions, help reduce the amount we had to on our cars, and really move forward to address climate change.

moderator: mr. lee. mr. lee: we have a system in venezuela, and anybody that needs a ride puts his finger you go usfor a real far as he goes on that same road. when you have to get out and change cards, you put your real, down, and for a the minimum amount, you get a free ride. i pick up hitchhikers all the time, and some of them jump over the snow bank because they see my long hair and beard and every thing like that, and the kid goes, o that is bill lee, he is all right. you have got to be more friendly to use more trains. we have to get out of this gas glut that we are in. i am telling you, it is down now. it is as low as it is going to be, cheaper than water. gas is amazingly cheap, you know, but it ain't going to last forever. dog in this9th nation, we are that date.

only wyoming it is smaller than us. get a bigger dog. >> if gas is sg president has been, do we have the capacity to adjust the tax on a? a penny or two or three or five? mr. lee: it is not going to be low forever. you can see it. they are waiting for that moment. the gas companies, look what they did down in the hurricane yesterday. they jumped price $.40 at the gas pump. in other to florida. if you are retired, do not go there. i know a farmer who went there and three month later he was dead. stay here. get back on the farm and do the right thing. go down for a break or something like that, but yeah. we have got to get off the gas glut, you know, and i was a hitchhiker, you know, and people picked me up. i am not jack reacher, but i wish i was. moderator: a follow-up on transportation. mr. scott: vermont has been discussing the return of passenger rail in the western

corridor front number of years now. neal: if elected governor, would you commit your administration to not only pursuing rail, but committing funds to completing the western corridor project? lieutenant governor scott. mr. scott: absolutely. this is some thing i have been working on in senate transportation for a number of years and something we have been working with the federal . congress andh welch was on senate transportation with me. we started talking about this and trying to bring it back. some of the border concerns are some of what prevents us from going any further, but we are going to solve that problem as well. i think it is imperative that we continue to fix the western corridors is that we can have passenger rail come from new york city right to burlington, and that hopefully, beyond into montreal, and that will help in all kinds of different ways from tourism to trade, and freight as well.

that would be something that i would focus on and something that we have been focusing on for a number of years. ms. minter: absolutely, for the last six years, i have been working so hard and our team has been aggressively pursuing federal grant. we have increased over $100 million of investment in the western corridor rail program. we are now 12 miles away and itting rutland from getting from her at length to queen city. this is going to make a huge difference and build from there. on the east side, i am so excited about the progress we have made. we have been negotiating for the last three years with the province of quebec. withve to negotiate quebec, new york, massachusetts, and connecticut because we are all in agreement with amtrak. we have made huge progress, and i am so ready to be that governor actually get it done. i have been in the negotiations. we have made huge progress on

getting a facility in downtown montreal, so people can go straight from the border, across. very difficult, very important, and i am ready to do it. moderator: mr. lee, transportation. mr. lee: i cross the border all the time. i have a radio show in montreal. i am lucky. i played up there, have good report, and the mayor loves me. he wants to bring the expos back. what we have got to do on the federal level is have a packed that we can go up there anytime we want and come back anytime we want. that hassle that you have to come back in here, and it is just embarrassing. i feel so bad about it because, with the red sox going up there, they have to pass through here, the yankees have to pass through the western side of the state. this money has the potential coming through our state and heading onto montreal. i have always been a train guy. i ride trains all the time.

rode bring them down to spring training. there is nothing more romantic than taking the train across canada and seeing the end of your train come by twice on a curve. it is like, go there, take a train, get rid of your car, shoot your car, sugar television. thank you. -- shoot your television. thank you. ms. minter: i do not support the carbon tax for vermont. what i am looking forward to is building on the work that i had been working on for the last three years in the transportation agency, working with other state throughout the northeast region. you know, i was the president of the national association, the northeast association of state transportation officials. we had initiatives to actually work as a beach in. it takes strong leadership to successful policy regionwide. that is why i want to continue the work i had been doing on expanding the regional

greenhouse gas initiative. this program, which was started under governor douglas actually reduced carbon emissions throughout the northeast by 24%, and brought over $10 million to vermont to invest in energy efficiency and renewable efficiencies. so this is what we can do when we build a transportation sector into the greenhouse gas initiative. i am excited to be the leader that it takes to work collaboratively across the region. moderator: mr. scott, carbon tax. mr. scott: it's on like she's aboard the carbon tax. whether it is regionally or for the state, it sure sounds that way. i am not in favor of the carbon tax. if a carbon tax came to my desk as governor, i would veto it. i am so sorry you do not understand policy that relate to reducing emissions. the greenhouse gas initiative is actually a cap and trade program where state like vermont that reduce emissions received of investment,ms

just like we have received on the electric side, we have received over $10 million of investments. we mobile to receive vehicle for not taxes, -- alternatives to the single occupant vehicle. energysferring our economy to non-carbon-based economy. moderator: final word, mr. scott. trade -- weap and have a carbon tax and the cap and trade. it sounds expensive. we are already overburdened by taxes. we do not need any more. moderator: quickly, sue minter. -- theter: bill is being

oil billionaire koch brothers. you know why they have been opposing the cap and trade in california? do you know why this is such an issue? let's talk about what is happening. we cannot let out-of-state oil tycoons i the selection. -- tycoons by the selection. i am surprised to find those got towing the political line talking about climate change like it is not a problem. we have to come around this problem. it is real. it is happening right here in vermont. let's have -- what happened in the northeast kingdom? what happened to the snowplow driver could not get work? what is happening when we lose our winters? this is serious. this is why we have to come together. we need leaders who is going to adjust this issue.

mr. lee: those of us who lived in the kingdom actually liked it . i had to shovel my driveway four times and i had to go, that is unbelievable. what have those ridgelines done for us? they said the credits down to connecticut because of the koch brothers. out.ave got to get you have got to get out of it with the gas dependency. you are running -- you are ruining your water. the problem is the fact we are ruining our environment. we are killing it. you never see here down the river anymore running to a pasture. they go through there like they are on fire, because they are on fire. the only eat up on the high pastures nowadays because that is only portion that has not been sprayed. we have ruined our rivers. stuff. drinking that

it is killing you. you wonder why we do not live so long? much.tor: thank you very if you are just joining us, this is the the vermont pbs gubernatorial debate. government -- governor candidates bill lee, sue minter and phil scott are here. it was mentioned during your opening questions, college. vermont has a very high rate of student high school graduation. low -- a those -- a poll it shows that 84% of respondents do not think that education beyond high school is affordable to most vermonters. there's a lot being said this year about free college tuition. is this something that can be

addressed at the state level? is this something we can do our campaign talk? to scott. mr. scott: we want to have an affordable education where youth. they can come in all kind of different ways. tech ed is something we should be taking a look at. i am a product of a vocational program. i did my afternoons and vocational training. i did my mornings in college prep before going on to upm. i wanted to be a tech at teacher. i don't think we focus enough on the trades. we should reinstitute industrial to tap into the creative minds of the youth. the trades are going to the future. the service technicians of future are going to need some training. two years would be enough. we should make it affordable by cutting down the cost of borrowing more than anything.

to school inent rhode island. she came out with that. that --e came up with she came out with that. the sallie mae's of the world -- moderator: sue minter, can we make college affordable? minter: two thirds of the century require some kind of education and training beyond high school. here in vermont while we do a great job of getting kids through high school, we do very weak job getting them beyond four out of 10 vermont high school graduates are not continuing. that is why i propose a month promise, two years of tuition free community or technical college, to give the next generation the opportunity for qualifying for livable wage jobs

and economic security. it is critical, because when i'm traveling and talking to the businesses, they cannot find qualified workers. we need to invest in students to make the workforce to grow our economy. this is my vermont promise. i'm committed to this and yes, we can. moderator: mr. lay, can we offer free tuition? mr. lee: it is a race to the top. at first it was no child from behind -- that is very catholic of me. no child left behind by the bush administration which was terrible. all of a sudden it was race to the top by the democrats which is not right. you have to be diversified. if he don't have jobs at the end of it, what good is your education. you can be all of you want, but all of our kids are leaving our state. you have to have jobs at the end of it. you have to be more multidimensional.

yet to be a generalist, not a specialist. that is what is wrong with our educational system. they are trying to make you generalized -- specialized when you need to be generalized. i am a locksmith, i do a lot of different things. i dig my potatoes by hand. i hate the lawnmower and i hate we lacquers and all of those things that blow leaves around. go rake the leaves yourself. sue minter, is there a price tag on your plan? ms. minter: we will be raising $6 million in the first year through a bank franchise on large banks with over $750 million worth of deposits. listen, we cannot afford not to do this. with four out of 10 kids not going beyond, we seeing as growth of generational poverty.

kids, it used to be enough to have a high school diploma. that is why we have to be thinking about the future. we have 40% of kids coming to kindergarten unready to learn in vermont. four out of 10 not going beyond. what does that mean for our future echo what does it mean for the future of our economy? we must invest in the students. when you get an associates agree, you earn $12,000 more per year with a bachelors, you earn $32,000 more per year. that is what vermonters need. they need an education, qualifications and great paying jobs so they can live, work and stay right here. moderator: mr. scott, any part of that plan interest you? mr. scott: nothing is free. somebody has to pay. she is going to raise taxes on somebody. there is going to be a fee increase the big banks. they don't have a magical bank

account that that is going to come out of. we are going to pay all -- we are going to pay for it whether it is checking account fees, somebody has to pay. nothing is free. having said that, i think we need to make college more affordable. having something free doesn't necessarily make it sell. i was able to give the commencement address to ccv a couple of years ago. that was so inspired by what i saw as they walked across the stage to receive the diploma. some of them having kids that were grown up at their side. theirn see it across faces, the sense of appreciation they had for the education that they earned and worked for. moderator: ms. mentor, you can respond. ms. minter: they have a commitment to reinvest in

community. they also have had a flat line in terms of how much they have invested into the general fund. over the last decade, they paid in.3 million in 10,007 -- 2007. has anybody's property taxes been flat? i don't think so. i think the banks can pay their fair share so the students can get a fair shake so we have a feature with kids who have a job and economic security, so they can be participants in our economy and use the resources of the bank. it surprises me when i hear no plans for college affordability, but all i hear is we cannot do anything. we have to take this on. we have to commit to the future generation, because what else do we have for our future if we are not supporting our kids? these are people who are not going to go on. they will have to give community service and they will have

volunteers to be the champions. moderator: follow-up on this topic? >> we go after the banks because that is where the money is. they are the guys who have it all and they keep it. they lend it out to us like it is gold or something. people cannot get money because the banks. you look in the big short. if the big short had won the academy award, bernie sanders would be president. what happened? spotlight one. they are always going after the catholics. yourator: would any of pursue loan forgiveness or other ways to reduce student debt in vermont, in exchange for students of grain to stay and work in vermont? >> bill lee. mr. lee: i was not paying attention.

moderator: debt forgiveness? mr. lee: sure. i believe we should all be public servants. you should donate to use of elected the state. i believe in what kennedy said when he started -- it was his brother-in-law that started the service where we went out and professed the united states that we were the best. we are going to go do everything. we go to nations and all we do is throw drones at them. it is an embarrassment. i am so upset with the way this country is headed in the last 20 years after the freedom of information act. i am upset. i will give you forgiveness. i will let everybody out of jail and i will let them go out there and work on the roads and fix the bridges could we put them in their because we created a society that made them criminals. look it up. ms. minter: if we are going to

do that forgiveness, we need a revenue for that. do not let our kids going to those kids who can manage to get into the process -- let's talk about it. kids decide and six grade whether or not they're going to aspire past high school. we need to give them hope. they can go into college and have the two years. it is going to cost the same but it is only going to help those who have the capacity to get in, to fill out those fafsa forms. our kids, there is a whole generation of kids, who are not going beyond high school. if we want to break the generational cycle of poverty, if we want to grow economic opportunity, we have got to give them a chance. that is my vermont promise. you are going to pay for it either way. i would rather give it to them upfront.

moderator: debt forgiveness in the scott administration. mr. scott: we have a demographic issue in the state, a population that is stagnant. we're losing this category from 25 to 45. those are the folks that buy homes, have families, utilized services, and pay taxes. that is what we need to rebuild. we have fertile grounds here. we have 10,000 college students each year in the state that graduate. they are the ones we should be asking, what is it going to take to keep you here? they want opportunity, afford housing and they want to be able to live here and afford to live here. what we are doing right now when we hear the schemes of raising more taxes and fees and spending more money, we are not focusing on the economy and opportunity in order to have them to be able to stay here and live here.

if the affordability crisis is the real problem. mr. lee: we have declining enrollment and colleges. did the recent merger go far enough back of mr. scott: i think jeff spalding has done a great job. i think that was a good move to merge the two. i think we are going to look at other opportunities. if we can make for a better vermont so that we can have more opportunity here, i think we will have more economic opportunity for our higher institutions. they are a part of our economy. moderator: colleges? ms. minter: i think our -- i think my plan does exactly what we have been talking about, help keep them people here and putting more students into our state college system. we cannot big vermont is to come and students to stay, we have to create great communities. great communities, livable wage

jobs, affordable housing just like we did in barry report $19 million in public investment into that downtown and have leveraged over $45 million of private investment. that is what we can do around the state. that is what is going to bring in people -- young entrepreneurs. i have the plans to do this. we are talking about cutting taxes, i don't see how that is anything but a republican talking point that is not going to solve our problems. i have real plans. i want to bring people here. i have a vt outsource plan. let's bring on our great recreational assets. that is what young people want to come to vermont to do, to recreate. we can do that. moderator: scott, health care? mr. scott: if you don't know it by now, 97% -- are now covered under act 48. one of the best incentives in

the united states. the system that created [indiscernible]will think i am telling you about anything you don't know. under the administration, simple put our audience, where do we go from here on health care, mr. scott? mr. scott: we have to pull the plug on vermont health connect people to take a look at what is an happening over the last number of years. a number of failed promises. show off this ip structure, dysfunctional. andever works appropriately we're still getting calls every day from people that are having problems accessing the system and getting changes. after spending over $200 million on this of failed initiative, you have to have the will and show the courage and leadership to say enough is enough. when you find yourself in a hole, you stop digging. what we need to do is transition

to something else, whether it is a federal exchange are going in with another state. whether it is connecticut or hawaii or somebody else, it is other alternatives. we have a custom-made i.t. structure that nobody has. they can't afford it. moderator: mr. lee? mr. lee: yet $20 million into the game and you are going to tweak it a little bit to keep it going. take a lot of buses like bernie said and let's go up to montreal . i will get you an $18 x-ray with all of my orthopedic guys. i have had four surgeries of their. -- up there. i pay out of my pocket. i don't use insurance. i go up there because it is a quality job. i will drive the bus, let's go up and get whatever we need. all the stuff you need. we'll get them for $.10 on the

dollar. the system down here is broken. we think we are going to fix it? this little state? know you're not -- no, you're not. we have too many borders, we have to get rid of them. -- harvest the energy from the tides going up and down, i tell you, we won't have any problems. get regional. moderator: health care in the future? ms. minter: it is the rising cost of health care that is really breaking the banks of our families, our school budgets and rising property taxes and our state budget. what we need to do, first and foremost, is address that rising health care costs. that is why we need to reform, we need to continue on our health care reform agenda. moving away from the current system of incentivizing more

fees, visits, pills and procedures. instead, focus on investing in health and outcome. that is the kind of reform that i am looking forward to moving. with respect to vermont health connect, this has failed many vermonters. i want to say that it is undermining our faith in government. i have overseen large i.t. projects in a $6 million budget. i know it is not simple to cut the plug. we have to have a plan if we cannot make dysfunctional. i'm going to look at the independent assessment. we have to have a plan that doesn't take people off their health care. moderator: what do we do with health care beneficiaries if we scrap and? ms. minter: -- scrap it? muskoka we cannot scrap vermont minter: weect -- ms.

cannot scrap vermont health connect. peoplestand that 17,000 will lose their health care benefits. the issue is it is not simple to jump in the federal exchange because our programs in vermont support so many programs. the federal exchange will not cover. if i learn that we can't make this system work, i will come up with a plan that is thoughtful about not allowing people to lose their health care. -- moderator:ted i directed that to you mr. scott . mr. scott: 30,000 people in vermont who are on vermont health connect can tell you that it is not working. we need to will the plug. 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 that we can fix it and it hasn't been done. it is time to say enough is enough.

vermont -- there are other initiatives. i spoke to the connecticut, they said they could handle the medicaid portion within their i.t. structure. hawaii had the exact same contractor that we did, cgi to begin with. they moved to the federal system . they kept a portion of what was billed for medicaid. we could talk to them. they could give us the opportunity and ideas for transitioning to the federal exchange without losing any one off of medicaid. this is not going to happen overnight. it is something that we need to transition to over the next year, have a plan. i am positive we can do it. if you are elected, would you support universal health care or the expansion of dr. dinosaur which has been proposed to allow kids up to 26 to stay on that program for

children? if so, how would you pay for it? it seems to be an expensive endeavor. mr. lee. mr. lee: run your children more at a younger age. you get them out and you run them. you create your own endorphins, you have a healthier body. he quit eating the junk that we have here and we would have a much healthier environment. -- davidu, i have seen reed is on his deathbed in greensboro, he fought on mount -- on mount suribachi. he is 92. i shook hands with him. i bought a top 14 acres of his farm. about babyarrassed boomers and what we have done on this planet with medicare and every thing else. i am ashamed to be taking any benefits from this federal government. these other guys that did it. when my father was on his deathbed and laying there, the psychiatrist says mr. lee, how are you feeling?

he says ifo great. he always had a great attitude. i look at the bill, for just $79 for saying ifo great. -- $479 for saying i feel great. ms. minter: reducing the cost of the system. let me tell you about what i saw yesterday, the senior housing development in burlington. they are using a program, something i worked on supporting. they are providing of care to seniors in their homes when they need it most. regular routine wellness care. you know what they have demonstrated? they discussed one of the outcomes and cost? they provided care for seniors and their home. it is reducing anybody's use of hospitals which is the most expensive care. they have demonstrated over $1500 of savings per patient per year.

look what we can do when we think differently. that is what we need to be thinking. how do we provide more resources for prevention and community based health? and how we incentivize that? the health care we have now incentivizes people going to the hospital and treating them there . we need to invest in hospital that invest in health. mr. scott: i think everybody deserves access to affordable health care. i think that is a common goal. we have seen health care spending go up 20% in the last six years. we spend a lot of time on experiments that did not pan out. transitioning from the vermont health connect to something else is a first step, at least take that structurally. dinosaur, they are doing a study on that at this very moment. i am looking forward to the results, something the legislature had asked for.

i'm concerned about taking that portion. when you look at the overall ablation of vermont, that is a part of our problem. we have an aging demographic. there is less people, less of our youth. when you have healthy youth, that is what drives -- they do not use them as much. we need more youth in the state in order to do that. take that portion out for dr. dinosaur, you are going to elevate the cost for everyone else from 26 the 65. much.tor: thank you very we are going to take a very short break. when we return, the studio audience will have questions. you're watching the gubernatorial debate on vermont pbs. >> we will return to the vermont to vote 2016 debate for the governor after this short break. ♪ back.tor: welcome

this is the gubernatorial debate on vermont pbs. and phil sue minter scott are here. we have members of our studio audience who are going to question them. first up, richard smiles. >> for all of you, your positions on universal background checks for gun ownership in vermont? lee?ator: mr. mr. scott: we had information, find out who's got them. guns don't kill people, bullets kill people. make bullets, reduce clip sized. i believe everybody is entitled. if you read it right, a well armed militia. you have to join the militia. i will run it. i will not send you into a foreign war. you join us, we will fix roads and highways. we will lower the hunting rights. i'm a firm believer in allowing

people to get out there and shoot. i will introduce pheasants. there is nothing that are in a richer jumping out from under your legs and your pointer being on him and you not -- and you knock him down and that dog goes and gets him and brings it back and drops it right at your feet. we're all hunters and gatherers. we have to continue that. i'm a firm believer. i would check everybody. half the people if you want a gun, you don't deserve a gun. ms. minter: i'm a strong supporter of the second amendment and vermonters rights who own guns. am going to honor the hunting heritage. i do believe it is time for common sense gun safety. i support background checks for all guns. why? because we have a national epidemic of gun violence. sadly, we are not immune here in vermont. happening, is really because i have been told that we

do not have a problem. i've seen the problem and it is often behind closed doors. i am talking about domestic violence. in vermont, the majority of our homicides are domestic violence related and the majority of those are with guns. in states that have background 46%ks for all handguns, fewer women are shot to death by their intimate partner. i say yes, i am going to stand up for gun safety. i'm going to take women behind closed doors. i will stand up to the gun lobbyists. moderator: mr. scott. mr. scott: from on has one of the lowest crime rates in the nation. i am not advocating for any changes in the gun laws. we do it right in vermont. we should enforce laws that we have. i'm not advocating for any changes. monica -- moderator: sufficient answers? >> yes. >> next up?

>> what is your plan for the struggling farm economy? especially the dairy farmers where their only option for survival is to become organic. could we help them transition into that? moderator: let's go from right to left. crimes it is part of our heritage. it is part of- >> our heritage. something we have to protect. we have to work hand-in-hand. intonnot force them paying. i know we talked a lot about water quality and we need to clean up lake champlain. but we cannot put it on to the

farmers. we need to work together. we have all benefited from the farming community over the last couple centuries. so, we need to protect them in recognize they are an important part of our economy. mentor: right now, farmers in our state are struggling. there are additional requirements being placed upon them. will support them as governor. our dairy farmers need technical assistance. actressupport and best is to support them. i agree there may be some, who if they can transition to organic for the prices are much higher, that might the eight sustainable option. i will have a secretary of agriculture who will help with the transition. i also have a program called

innovate vermont. it looks to drive this in our key economies. our farm and forest economies. all of the exciting arms and food industries. cheese. we have incredible dairy products. vermont.he future of a renaissance of our great agriculture economy. moderator: mr. lee. mr. lee: organic. you have to go organic. right from monsanto. quit killing all of our kids with high-tech foods eight close to the vast go back to the hexagonal double digging technique. like in indonesia. once you started opting this will be the bread basket.

this will be the finest state to smaller.arms we will sell to new york, boston, montreal. first. to get on it lifting it out there, get the markets, and get 1000 chickens at the most. all organic. be diversified. have docs. let's go back to the way it used to be. docucks. moderator: i would like to remind viewers, this is the first of war deviates. week, the candidate for lieutenant governor. then the united states house on october 20. finally, all of the candidates on the alleged for the united

ontes senate will be here thursday, october 27 at 7:30. please join us. thetion: this is to all candidates. what would you say to try to win ofr voters in this climate polarization who feel disenfranchised a hand on trusting of government? minter: i think our government is something we need to believe in, trust in, and feel confident about. that is why i have worked hard to focus on being accountable to taxpayers. we have lost faith in government. i want to make sure we no government can function and is there when you need it. in i read. we had 500 miles of roads

damaged overnight. i was at the transportation agency. the emergency operations were flooded out. the state agency of transportation pulled together to innovate, to partner hand to do what nobody thought possible, reconnect the roads. rebuild bridges. in less land for months. that is what government can do if it tells great partnerships in that is what we are therefore. a governor who make sure we're providing great service. great accountability to taxpayers. mr. lee.: mr. lee: you have to quit onlying cbs and fox news, watch this channel, only listen to this radio station. i am good friends, i go way back to common cause, fair share. the government is not the problem.

the problem is the special interest groups, the coke others, the geithner guys thatsts -- the are propagandizing. the sky is falling. moderator: mr. scott. mr. scott: it is an issue in this state. the lack of faith in in government across our nation. we see what is happening on the presidential scale it is alarming. what we can do is act appropriately. no interest, i had in politics but i started complaining about what is going on and stepped up. i had been in the minority my whole political light, 16 years. but i was always able to get something done because i have been able to reach across the aisle. to bring people together to look at what we should be doing. we should be public servants not politicians. do. is what we need to

act appropriately. so, i was put in a position of leadership and i was lieutenant by then senator welch. congressman welch. it was not because i agreed politically or philosophically. we trusted each other from a hand-two-hand basis, it was as simple as that. we need to rebuild faith and trust. moderator: frank is up next. question: thank you. i was glad to hear you speaking about a balanced budget earlier. i listen to that every two years. the deficit that has been rising every year. and that it continues to grow and grow. i think i heard tonight it was 40 minute dollars. i thought i had read $120

million, i am not sure which is which. you've know i heard the budget was so bad, a deficit like that, falling.as not when i see around vermont is wonderful. reservation to get into a restaurant sometimes in burlington. is it such a bad thing that we have a deficit? moderator: ok. mr. scott: it is absolutely problematic. you need to travel around. get to bennington. get to springfield. there are problems throughout the state and some of the deficits we're facing right now are the results of being overoptimistic in expectations in terms of the economy. they have been basing that on

like 3% and been growing at another 2%, thinking it will grow by percent every year when it only grows about 1.5%-2%. there is always a rescission after. after,stor, the year after the budget passed, it is a revenue downgrade. all of a sudden it is an emergency, they bring in the emergency ward. we need to be realistic up onto about what we can afford hands not have this overoptimistic expectation. miss minter: i want to clarify between a budget shortfall. short, we have to make it up. it is different from going into debt which we never do. we are one of the few states in the country that does not require a balanced budget. we need to talk about how we are going to grow our economy.

too many are struggling. that is why i have invest from wantd innovate investing, creating opportunities, just like we did in derry, saint albans, my town of waterbury. pulling together, setting a plan in building economic opportunity and growth. we will innovate around 14 sectors of our economy. advanced manufacturing, high-tech, and green economy. forest economy. renewable energy. i have plans to grow our economy. moderator: mr. lee. mr. lee: we do not have to worry about a thing. is, i am leaving my doctor's office, they did not take my blood.

they said there was no technician. and wanted tooad eat something. i get on the road and i am following a truck. it has a quebec plate. it has 43 of the most uniform maple logs of the fall harvest. i had to follow that truck at 50 miles an hour all the way up from 14 as it passed my house and went into canada to be built. that is a problem. we have to do our stuff ourselves. we of the best for us, the best land. nothing is going to happen. deficit? what deficit? we are not going to a deficit. we are the greatest eight on the planet. i picked this state. actually, it picked me. i've been here longer than i have been anywhere else. thank you. smarttor: any follow-up >> no.

moderator: valerie is next. question: first of all, i want to hear what you are going to do to women's issues and i want follow up. as i read with budget cuts, who would be our second female governor and it was insulting as when you are nodding with everything that peter shumlin said. do you actually believe that? >> it is not something we can coordinate. refused to coordinated with the rga and some others on ads, it was dismissed. we are careful. we cannot coordinate in any sense of the word. but i don't agree.

we are about that. i have never run a negative campaign of my life. this is my ninth campaign, i have ever run a negative campaign. whether you are a man or a woman, i think it rubs you the wrong way. we cannot coordinate and any way with anybody. sue can't either. not?o is running you don't know? rga or somebody. i don't know. >> oh, yeah. >> so, what would you do for women in vermont? moderator: added as a question for all of you. we'll start with mr. lee. willee: it will wage, it time, it raise the minimum wage. for more money in the economy and the deficit goes down. fame,t is in the hall of

she taught me. hazel, her mother, broke her leg sliding into second at 47 years of age. with strong women. my great grandmother had all three husbands over for thanksgiving in the 1800s. that does not happen all the time. so, my grandmother said, billy, she gave me a strong cup of children's coffee with condensed milk and then give me a box of shotgun cells -- shells and say, go shoot dinner. that was my life. methank you for raising question. we know that 43% of women who help.n vermont still need many issues affect women who are predominantly more often female heads of household, which are more and more falling into poverty. there are many things we can and

will do. minimum wage. one challenges women predominantly are in low-wage jobs. childcare providers, elder care providers. youngd to help improve girls and young women's educational opportunities. topart of my vermont promise get more kids, including women, into those minimum wage jobs. we also need to promote them. we need to have more childcare and i am one to be pushing for paid family leave so women can have children. i was a secretary of transportation. under my leadership, the number of women and maintenance positions double. we created new lactation facilities for new moms to be able to work and still be caregivers. as you may have heard on some of the ads, i am a vermonter who supports equal pay for equal work.

i am a father of two daughters. very independent. very proud of my daughters. i want the best for them. i want opportunity for them. if we are one to grow this economy everyone has to pull in an able direction and bases. my mom and dad passed away when i was 11-your site and all. my mom raised three boys, she is the strongest person on the face of the air and she is the one tot inspires me and we want do better for women in vermont and it is something i will seek to find equal opportunity for everyone. moderator: did that answer your question? domestic abusers? i need clarification on these things. thank you so much.

>> the minimum wage was mentioned twice. it is supposed to be raised to $10 26 an hour by 28 teen. ,overnor scott, governor minter governor louis calmly what would you do? >> mi first again? you know, i was going to set it back almost 10 years ago when we had a debate on minimum wage. i remember the date of the debate quite well and it was sold to many of us to raise the minimum wage and tied it to the index, the cost of living and that we would never have this discussion again. we will not have to raise the minimum wage itself. it will rise naturally with the cost of living. in initiative a couple

of years ago that would raise the minimum wage up higher than the that are all standard. i am concerned about those small who workunt pop's multiple hours, trying to make ends meet. if you raise the minimum wage on some of them they are going to work more hours and cut jobs. i think we should allow this to work, there should be entry-level jobs, that teaches our youth something about structure. ms. mentor: i will be supporting in increase of the minimum wage $12 $.50 an hour and more than that i want to make sure that we will get more vermonters qualified for jobs. this is the opportunity gap. we have too many people struggling to make ends meet his wages are not keeping up with the cost of living and to deal

with this affordability challenge we need to get more vermonters into those jobs. connect the dots between our businesses and our students with internships, apprenticeships, certifications. vermontwhat my prophetess is about. it is for a strategy. withe county, they came up a terrific plan of institutions for higher learning. international training. and theyll landmark are working in consortium with a group of businesses who want to know what kind of forces they need to have to get to those jobs. connecting the dots. mr. lee: if it is going to get

up, you need more money to pay taxes to pay for these services everybody wants. i want the lower class and middle class to make more money. there is a law in albany. 30 feet long. off the ground. from $30 and i bet there are a million spoons and that will stop that is what you have to do do. you have natural resources, he use them. start being more diversified. the problem with our health care is, everybody is out there -- live hard, die quick, leave a dutiful works. get out there and do something. make things. we are diversified. let's go make more products. and we do not have to worry about a dam thing because this is the best place to live.

cracks when does your minimum wage go to $12.50 an hour. moderator: when does your minimum wage go to $12.50 an hour? scott: think about it. there is nobody that makes less than $12.50 an hour, so those that make $15 are going to want to make $18. those who make $18 are going to want to make $21. those who make $21 are going to want to make $24. it all comes on somebody's pocket. caused partment has of this problem by raising taxes to the degree it has been happening over the past seven years. let's focus on the economy. more opportunity for everyone.

i think if you ask those who are graduating, the 10,000 students graduating every year, whether it is a $15 an hour minimum wage that is going to keep them here i would say no. they are looking for more opportunity. more affordable housing. more opportunity in jobs. that is what we should be focusing on. growing economy so we can attract more youth and rev up our economy. we are faltering, we are missing the mark and we have been missing the mark for the last seven or eight years because we're not focusing on what we can do to help ourselves. we are artificially raising everything to take care of it. inter: it can help it

people off the services they want to be independent and self-sufficient. i worked very hard a secretary of transportation to make sure the folks on the front line, the folks who are there are working hard and are dedicated to making sure your roads are safe in the winter and safe in the summer. i wanted to make sure they had a higher wage. increase their wage without having to bump up every other part of the business doi think this misses can like we have done in government. let's make sure we do not have such a huge disparity between people at the top and people who are giving their work daily. i have been so inspired by the folks that actually give of themselves stay after day, believing in keeping our roads safe and i am thrilled i was able to help them increase their

wages and earnings. >> you have to be more creative. them in a box. put the box around the side of your house. ain't it black. put in solar panels. it will heat up the whole dam thinkwill stop we have to outside of the box. you sure head. be more diversified will stop you will make more money. but the vermont label on it. get out there and sell it. this state is a gold mine. it is a state of mind it is a place where people come. people will come in. -- in got to get the montreal, that is what i am hoping for. moderator: think you all.

scott.one, mr. mr. scott: thank you for having us. a fact to live my life the way i want to be treated. the importance of leadership. we have a deficit of faith and trust here and nationally. it is incumbent upon us to act appropriately in our own deck yard and inspire others to do the same. it is about instilling that date and trust that has been lost across the nation. inviting placee for working families and jobs. our ability to grow the economy. make the state more affordable, give our kids the best education possible. this is all tied to one common element, leadership. it will take strong, courageous leadership will stop to change the economics and vermont.

there will be difficult decisions regardless of who is elected. it is essential we tell the truth. always, always follow through with a promise. mr. lee: i always had a good allah through. it kept me lose. kept me going. i tell you something, thank you pbs. station i every watch because it is the only place you can gain knowledge. in nebraska, the end stands for knowledge. i see everything rosie. i see no problem. what i hear is people are upset with the government. you are looking at the only guy who has his hands in his own pocket. i have only taken $20 and that was from a 91-year-old in wisconsin. i told him, sir, i do not wait

your money. i do not believe in money and politics. we have to get rid of citizens united. ofhave to do that or none what we say here today will be a help. you have to get rid of the big problems to save this little state. thank you. inter: i am looking for solutions. vermont is a real choice in this election. there are differences between us. create livable wage jobs and affordable college . my plans give tax bracts -- some plans give tax breaks to corporations and leave the middle class behind. vermonters prefer

background checks for all guns to keep vermonters say, which bill opposes. i am optimistic about our future. i believe in you want and i'm asking for your vote to be governor so that we can move vermont forward and build an economy that works for all vermonters. lee, -- moderator:: thank you very much. thank you all candidates. thank you audience for taking part. next week, the candidate for lieutenant governor at 7:30 right here on vermont pbs. thank you for joining me will stop see you next week. ♪

>> our look at state races continues today. north carolina governor versus the democrat. live on c-span2, west virginia governor and democratic challenger debate in the state governor race. on c-span3, democrat faces republican in nebraska's second district race. at 7:00 p.m. eastern on the c-span network. coming up on c-span, governor in charlotte,igns north carolina. then hillary clinton holds a rally in detroit. later, donald trump speaks in the him bridge, pennsylvania. >> c-span's washington journal, live every day with news and

policy issues that impact you. coming up, national journal political editor on the latest developments in the presidential campaign following the second debate. he will look at key senate and house races. plus, we'll look at the media buys with the media research center and to the president of media matters. c-span washington journal live beginning at 7:00 this morning. join the discussion. >> today, former vice president al gore campaigns with hillary clinton in miami. we are live at 3:00 p.m. eastern here on c-span. >> our c-span campaign 2016 bus is traveling throughout her gin yet this week asking voters, what is the most important issue to you in the election and why?

ati am at eight freshman college. most important to me is the emigration crisis, the refugee crisis, and the economy. our country has not been doing well economically and i feel crisis, immigration illegal immigrants coming in is a big problem. >> my name is finally lewis. to me, the most important issue is social issues. particularly abortions and immigration. >> my name is tom. i attended college. i think an important issue is national security. we haves though problems with our borders. this cycle.rtant in

i am a college student, i think the most important issue is the economy. imb class of 2020 in college. to me, the most important issue andonstitutional rights values that people like thomas jefferson held. preserving those principles. announcer: voices from the road on c-span. penceovernor mike campaigns in charlotte, north carolina a day after the second presidential debate. this is about 50 minutes. gov. pence: hello, north carolina. thank you. it is so good for my

wife and i to be here with you today. just a few short months ago, i accepted my party's nomination to run and serve as the next vice president of the united states of america. robin knows me well enough to know the introduction i prefer is a little bit shorter. i am a christian, a conservative, and a republican in that order. it's an honor to be here with you. let me encourage you in that vein and to remember our neighbors and friends. fayetteville, lumberton, all across north carolina. the nation is remembering north carolina. your good governor pat mccoury. thank you so much for the way that he and all of you have responded to hurricane matthew. it has been truly inspiring. i have to tell you that it has been an interesting few days. but i got to tell you.

i joined this campaign in a heartbeat. you have nominated a man for president that never quits. who never backs down. he is a winner. and we will make america great again. when we make donald trump the 45th president of the united states of america. donald trump i truly believe -- you saw it last night on the debate stage, he embodies the spirit of america. he is strong, freedom loving, independent, optimistic, and willing to fight every day for what he believes in and what makes this nation great. you saw that on the stage last night.

it takes a big man to know when he's wrong. and to admit it. and to have the humility to apologize and to be transparent and vulnerable. and donald trump last night showed that he is a big man. i was on television this morning on msnbc. [crowd boos] i think i was on that one. i was on a few. someone asked me about my faith. they asked me about the fact that i say i am a christian. and in the wake of the last few days, what i made of everything. and i welcomed the opportunity. other than that woman standing next to me, my wonderful wife