, conservative media and all it takes discussion of a book that was recently excerpted it in politico magazine. ♪ host: "washington journal" for october 12. early voting starts today for arizona, indiana and ohio. early voting in florida and north carolina showed a strong interest from democrats requesting absentee ballots. 500,000 early boats have been counted. -- early votes have been counted. what do you perceive as the tone for 2016? with the contention between donald trump and paul ryan and other events over the last several days -- we want to get

your sense of the tone and what you think of the tone of this campaign. trump,support donald 202-748-8001. if you support hillary clinton, 202-748-8000. if you support a third-party candidate, 202-748-8002. if you are currently undecided, 202-748-8003. you can post on our twitter page and you can post on facebook, too. here are the headlines in the papers today. this all stemming from the back and forth between donald trump and paul ryan after the house speaker said he will concern himself with house races more than the presidential race and mr. trump's candidacy. if you go to the pages of "the

washington post," that headline reads "trump bashes gop leaders ." particularly those that turned away from them. sa today" has a list of senators who will not support mr. trump. the survey identified 87 republicans not supporting mr. trump as of tuesday. some of these elected officials rejected trump months ago, many turned on him since the release of a tape from 2005 at mr. trump making lewd comments about women. with that in mind, the tone of campaign 2016, what you perceive

it to be, are you concerned about it? if you support hillary clinton. 202-748-8002 for a third-party candidate. 202-748-8003 if you're undecided. 202-748-8001 if you support donald trump. michael is up first from pennsylvania. he does support donald trump. how would you characterize the tone of the campaign? caller: it is very divisive. it's not what i expected to see in the republican party. i do blame some of the republican officials and congressmen. i have not been a trump supporter from the get-go. i was almost anything but trump. point, i'm anything but hillary.

you will impact our constitution, our supreme court, particularly our supreme court. when she says in the debate that nominate people for the supreme court that have life experiences, that tells me everything i need to know. supposed tocourt is defend the constitution and we on the have people supreme court who think the south african constitution is a better representative of our government. if there's anything america has been and should be about come its limited government and our constitution. i don't know that donald trump will carry that through, but it is so important that we elect somebody as president who will nominate constitutionally minded supreme court justices. iris on the tone of campaign 2016.

she is in michigan, an undecided voter. today? how are you doing i think it is very contentious. it puts a lot of fear into the people in this country. there are too many managers, too in the background, they've had years of experience that i all over the map think they are manipulated as candidates. i don't think they are allowed to get their true feelings out there. a lot of people in this country are very fearful because there's too many people in the business and the press, they are so vicious. host: is it making it harder for you to make a decision? caller: i certainly can't vote for the scary guy. he knows less than a

two-year-old on certain matters. he has that confused look on his face -- jill stein is not given any time to talk. it's like they are invading the system. and the new have the president talking about don't throw your vote away on a third-party because it's not going to work -- when did the president ever put his two cents in? it kind of makes you crazy. if you are interested in seeing that third-party candidates talk about their campaigns, they were on our program last night. go to our website at www.c-span.org. frank is in birmingham, alabama. is supporting hillary clinton. caller: my issue is as well with

the media, as she said. , they toldbate audience members not to clap or applaud. deal,nute into trump's they started clapping and cheering. rise. this 2% clinton was leading by double digits. this morning, he is at 9%. loud, too many talking heads and all that. goreo glad you guys had al talking about how he won the popular vote in the supreme court issue -- and the supreme court issue took the presidential election from al

gore. if we continue to have single-digit edge going into , we presidential election u.s. supreme court again giving us a president of the united states of america. the thing with the electoral college and the process is not one person, one vote in the first place. i sincerely hope most americans concentrate -- all politics is local. three comments on the tone of campaign 2016. that's what we are inviting you to call us today and give your thoughts -- the caller had andioned that bill clinton al gore campaigning with hillary clinton in florida, talking about the issues of climate change. [video clip]

maybe donaldon: will listen to our military leaders who say climate change threatens our national security. what about the ranchers in colorado or mayors in arizona and community leaders in alaska who say our lives and jobs are being affected? let's come together as a country and do something about it. putting a climate denier in the white house. that is absolutely unacceptable. [applause] clinton: we need a president who believes in science and has a plan to lead america in facing this threat and creating good jobs and yes, saving our planet. first, we need to do a lot more on clean energy. the clean energy superpower of the 21st century is going to be germany, china or us and i wiped want it to be us.

we need to accelerate the transition and create , building andbs installing more solar panels and wind turbines, modernizing our electric grid, building 21st entry infrastructure. we need to make sure no community is left behind. tone of campaign 2016 and your thoughts on it. fayetteville, north carolina, a third-party supporter. hello, ted. caller: i support jill stein. i saw jill stein last night. gary johnson supports natural gas fracking. he believes in global warming but doesn't want the government to do much about it. his environmental positions are

terrible. jill stein has a plan to move this country forward. the commissioner on debates is unfair because they have a threshold where each candidate has to get five different polls, they have to get 15%. that makes it almost impossible for a third-party candidate like joel stein to get into the debate. -- jill stein to get into the debate. hillary clinton is the lesser of two evils. trump is a horrible candidate. would cut taxes for the rich. he ran a scam university and so on. hillary supports natural gas fracking, she supported nafta -- host: what do you think about the tone of campaign 2016? that's what were talking about. caller: it's horrible.

the two candidates are talking over each other, they are both making accusations and we are not getting to the issues. both of the candidates are terrible in that respect. urban is next in florida. supporter of hillary clinton. i'm 77 years young. this is the worst campaign i've ever seen since i was a kid in 1948. yes, they had a tough campaigns. queens, 40 minutes from trump. i find trump to be the most disgusting, disgraceful -- if you walk on fifth avenue and shot somebody, he would still be elected president. we've had some pretty rough elections over the years.

who said tedan cruz's father may have been involved in the kennedy assassination. trump has been investigated all over the world. i am totally a democrat, but nonetheless, i'm proud that crews did not support trump. host: bob is a supporter of donald trump. go ahead. caller: what put me onto donald trump is the e-mail release from yesterday. the snake is rotting from the head down. there's collusion going on between the white house, the --

cnn news fed hillary questions ahead of time. she knew word for word the question she would be getting. compass.o moral wikileaks stuff affected the tone? it's happening right under our nose. caves withple in their heads being cut off and we have all this mess going on -- did you watch al gore's movie 15 years ago? according to that, we had 10 years and we were done. host: bob mentioned the e-mail dump by wikileaks. john podesta responding to it

saying russian spies hacked e-mails. he said he had spoken with the fbi as a victim of packing. is "the new york times." cbs news looks at the content of , particularlydump when it comes to issues over hillary clinton and her use of an e-mail server. he wrote on march 6, 2015, the campaign was still preoccupied

the justice -- department was proposing to publish clinton's work related e-mails in january. another e-mail, this from the -- er for american progress that is from cbs news. the tone of campaign 2016. richard in baltimore, maryland. years, i'vey 60 felt there's always been contention in these elections. on aountry was founded

progressiven liberals who wanted to form a new country and people who wanted the status quo. is we see people that we normally wouldn't see their identity quite so easy. ory are white supremacists extreme liberals. they show their colors more quickly and their voices are much more amplified. host: steve is up next. steve lives in south carolina. supporter of a third-party candidate. caller: the campaign is just deplorable. it's disgusting. if there's ever an election cycle that is underscoring the need for a third-party candidate, it's this one.

we should be ashamed that the two prime parties have offered up these candidates to run for the president of the united states of america. as far as republicans go, donald trump is trashy. it's hard to blame people for pulling their support for this man. democrats are very strong, they are like family. a tape could service with hillary clinton saying -- urface of hillary clinton saying to somebody i had my way with a small boy in the woods last week and not one congressman or governor would pull their support. that's the difference in the two parties. the republicans have a big problem. there are 34 senate seats coming up for grabs.

it's time for a strong, honorable third-party candidate. i will be voting for the constitution party. conscience.y i know south carolina is going to be read. -- is going to be red. , look at howhio they go and that will be the winner. host: the new york times looks at early swing voters -- they highlight florida and north carolina. democrats are requesting more absentee ballots in florida than they were at this point in 2012. , democrats arena requesting ballots in larger in 2012.han

republican participation is declining. caller: good morning. i'm going to vote for jill stein. i like her ideas and i'm sick of wars and the u.s. selling weapons. i also believe in the environment. simple,ne possible positive, quick comment. i'm sure many other people do also. there are many poor countries in the world. katie, which is -- like haiti, which is in dire straits. we discard millions of plastic soap containers a year. if these containers were designed like legos, could

withstand heat, they could be snapped together to construct ousing in these areas of poverty. i like people that are going to be positive and stop all this destruction. that's why i'm voting for jill stein. host: we will continue on your calls on the tone of campaign 2016. number thatt represents you. a court decision yesterday looks at the operation of the consumer financial protection bureau and takes a look at its leadership. joining us on the phone to talk about it is lydia wheeler with the hill. can you start with how they are

currently headed up? what did the court have to say about it? is headed up by by the, he was appointed president to head this independent agency in 2013. foru.s. court of appeals the d c circuit ruled the way it is set up now is unconstitutional. congress made a mistake by creating a far-reaching agency led by a single director. it should have had a number of commissioners and a board of directors to keep it in check. host: why was the current structure set up in the first place? guest: that was a decision that congress made. frankgency came out of.

-- dodd frank financial reform. there are other agencies like the treasury department, but the treasury department has to report to the president and follow the president's directives. no, the court says you have to act more like the treasury department. you have to be governed by the president and the government can supervise you and remove your director at will. if the organization is declared unconstitutional, does it have to stop operations? guest: absolutely not. this does not impact the operations of cfpb. rolling out its rules and taking enforcement action. this is a tweak of how the agency should be run.

it does threaten its current director. in, itresident comes gives the new president the power to get rid of richard, even if he wants to finish out his five-year term. -- thesethe cfpb actions would be voided? guest: that is something you may see. people come in and challenge actions they've already taken against companies claiming they are unconstitutional. now, the agencies under the supervision of the president, you might not see those challenges. what was the reaction from the white house? guest: the white house said this is a tweak and it does not change cfpb. they don't seem too concerned about it. said that thisn

agency is her brainchild, said we are going to appeal this decision and it will get overturned. that is an option that cfpb has. they can ask the d.c. circuit for a full review of its decision by its full roster of judges. or, they can appeal to the supreme court. host: who brought up the lawsuit in the first place? guest: phh corp, a new jersey mortgage lender that took the agency to court after cfpb fined it for allegedly accepting kickbacks from mortgage insurers. takeaction pushed them to the agency to court. and argue something republicans have long been arguing, that cfpb is unconstitutional.

lydia wheeler is the federal regulations reporter for the hill. thank you for your time. guest: thank you for having me. host: we are getting your thoughts on the tone of campaign 2016. if you want to give us your sense of what you're seeing or perceiving about it, let us know on the phone line. charles from bethesda, maryland come a supporter of hillary clinton. caller: it's messy, definitely messy. most of the mess has to do with the republicans. the infighting between themselves. trump's base does not want to except the fact that america has changed. -- accept the fact that america has changed. their kids don't understand why they are supposed to hate black

and brown or be scared of black and brown. when most of trump's supporters said if he gets elected, they , that's why canada this campaign is so messy. it's mostly because of the republican infighting. host: let's hear from jj in florida. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i don't really like the tone of , but what i am very concerned with his christians in the united states, the e-mail that came out, it was on the keli file last night, about the way hillary and one of her

-- it was really about catholic people, religious people taking the christian right away -- if hillary clinton gets in there, they will try to keep us christians, catholic christians come any kind of religion, they are going way overboard with it. we will lose our right to speak and god blesss america and thank you for taking my call. host: greg is up next in jacksonville, florida. caller: i'm a 37 year watcher of c-span. independent, but i'm supporting hillary clinton. i lost interest in the whole presidential election process in 2000 with gore and bush.

, i'm reallytopic concerned for a number of reasons. we have not had this kind of dissension in the country since the initial beginning of the civil war. the commentary by the young lady last night during one of campaign isce's frightening. his supporters would lean more , that kindurrection of hatred that came at a time back in 1860. it's a terrible time for the country. wasprevious two callers right on point, the country is changing. a good deal of americans have had issues with that. we are in trouble. we have a particular candidate that has accused the media of

theg rigged, has accused election of being rigged. that is a very dangerous person. sometimes in the media, they say someone has gone beyond the line this is resembling something that happened in germany in 1933 with the discussion that mr. trump has and the recalcitrance of the has -- that he has, i hope people look at the lesser of two evils and try to get mrs. clinton in office. host: link in connecticut, a third-party supporter. caller: thank you for c-span. far as the tone of the campaign for 2016 come i think

it is indicative of a great deal of unbridled unrest that has permeated the entire lexicon of american ideology. what we are seeing here is the culmination of what i believe to anxiety,y's worth of angst, rage and attack in some, particularly between the northern sensibility and southern sensibility coming to a great head. it is showcasing itself in the fashion of both major political parties. extolling and showcasing outright contempt for its baseline voter in the form of the democrats essentially having the superdelegate system in the arst place that undermined great deal of the voting will of the people who are registered democratic voters and it leaked

e-mails throughout the entire campaign, staffers referring to hispanic voters as the taco bowl of engagement and on the republican side, you have the same thing, contempt for what the mainstream mass majority republican voter wants to see in office. in essence, what we are seeing is not a problem with the tone of the campaign but essentially the very visible and all too ominous realization that the reason we have so many political who are unfit to serve in office is because we have so many voters unfit for the duty of overseeing democracy. in connecticut. we are talking about the tone of campaign 2016. stay on the line if you have called in. keep calling if you want to make your thoughts known.

we want to give you a congressional update with four needed ifor grabs hillary clinton wins. we start with nevada's senate heck being targeted by the ad parenthood -- attacks the republican for voting to defund planned parenthood. [video clip] ♪

host: represent the heck is running against -- representative heck is running against catherine. showed the contest as a battle between the likes of charles koch and fred of chicago. the campaigns have spent $7.6 million on their campaigns through june 30, the most recent figures available. as of friday, 34 groups have spent more than $49 million on independent expenditures.

-journalthe reno gazette in nevada. who writesy by ej for "the washington post." main looks very much like the divided nation we have become. looks very much like the divided nation we have become. you can find that in the press herald.

journal takes a look at mech whitman, the chief executive for hewlett-packard, also getting involved in the new jersey house race. backing the is democrat because she believes garrett, is, scott a republican extremist. reasonable people from all sides to work on the biggest --llenges that is in "the wall street journal." the race in florida's 13th congressional district between charlie crist and david jolly, the former governor now leading ae incumbent congressman -- poll conducted three weeks ago had jolly up three points over crist.

back to calls taking a look at the tone of campaign 2016. here is grace in lafayette, indiana. supporter of hillary clinton. caller: hello. i'm a very old person. i'm very concerned about this election. e and fallthe ris of adolf hitler. he wanted to create an all white race. saw an all-white audience for donald trump. no, american knows what a dictator looks like. over hitler led his people a cliff with the same rhetoric that donald trump does. now, american knows what a

dictator looks like. hitler's created all white audiences. he got the all-white audience. -- a fewfew people colored people in there. upset that -- why the people of my generation doesn't understand that. women my age know what he did. heard --he's host: roy in california. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. campaigne tone of the as the last lady said very alarming.

basically for the same reasons. i see that donald trump is being divisive. to this nation. with -- we has to do are still fighting the civil war. there are people in this country that refused to accept the change and a lot of it manifests lected when we e barack obama. they can't accept the fact that someone who didn't look like the other presidents is in the white house. they refuse to accept it. i was watching mike pence at a town hall in one of the people got up and said if hillary gets elected, we are going to have a revolution. election stole the from al gore, he graciously conceded. and trump is saying, well, they

stole it, it's rigged. even if he loses, he's not going to go away. this feeling is going to permeate through the society. mr. pence stopped the woman as far as her train of thought is concerned. caller: yes, he did. like hitler's lost at first, he will keep coming back. host: bill is in reading, pennsylvania. supporter of donald trump. what do you think about this campaign's tone? caller: i'm 71 years old. i just came back from europe six months ago. it's disgusting. i will tell you something --

it's not these guys' fault. the people create the problem. the people create this craziness this country is going through because they don't know how to vote. you don't vote for the same people all over again. they're concerned about one thing, how to put money in their pockets. it's me, me, me. wake up, america, and maybe we can change it. years -- i for 62 have been here for 62 years. host: doug is up next. doug lives in centreville, virginia. he is undecided. caller: the more i listen to

this show. the more i'll -- the more i listen to this show, the more i respect you and the other hosts of this program. my biggest problem with the tone is the way other media outlets have set us up for failure in a way by focusing exclusively on the horrible things donald trump has said and not allowing the regular discourse to come forward. everything is focused on donald trump said this awful thing all the time and once in a while, we will hear something from hillary clinton's side. there are legitimate reasons to vote against either one of these candidates. those issues are not discussed in most of the media. host: another resident of virginia, this is zach in arlington. supporter of donald trump. caller: mining is that great.

does my name is zachary. -- my name is zachary. who very informed immigrant has lived in this country for 30 years. i teach government and political science. my first quorum is with the media. ran,u recall, when bush the media was heavily biased in favor of bill clinton. against george attacked george bush and called him all kinds of names, including comparing him tler.lle i am an independent observer of

how the politics works. -- the hosted that ladyur show, the caucasian , is for hillary clinton. host: i will start with that -- we don't take any sides in any presentation of what we do. weill say that much and appreciate your thoughts on the other things as we talk about the tone of campaign 2016. robert from austin, texas. you will be the last call on this. caller: i'm not a supporter of donald trump.

it has turned into a disgusting mess but nobody wants to talk e-mailse 22 million that bush deleted when he smashed his hard drive. powell --lking about: , leading up to the war of iraq -- nobody wants to talk about those in meal -- those e-mails that were deleted. host: how would you describe campaign 2016? caller: down under a. -- down and dirty. we should be talking about the issues and not bringing up dirt. that is robert in austin, texas. we will keep on talking about campaign 2016. our next guest focuses much of his time taking a look at what's , lookingin elections

at the electoral college votes and house and senate campaigns. a look at the fight against isis with "frontline" host martin smith. we will hear from him as "washington journal" continues. ♪ >> this weekend on american history tv on c-span3, saturday evening at 6:00 eastern, chris michalski on the battle of spotsylvania courthouse. wilderness, the army spot for a couple of days, they came to stalemate, grant moved left and south. here in spotsylvania for couple of days, they fought to a stalemate and they have reports of federalists moving left and south.

what do you think that puts in lee's mind? i'm being flanked again. >> guenther peck talks about america's cold war immigration policies toward refugees. nothey defined refugees as only political refugees, but anti-communists who are our allies. to let an obligation them in because they are anti-communist. kestenbaum and nancy talk about their years in congress. >> when bob was leader and i worked under -- we were in the senate 18 years together. bob was leader for six of those years. >> 10. >> know, when i was in --

>> i'm sorry. outou made sure you pointed that you were working together. that's what we need to instill again. >> the 1984 presidential debate between ronald reagan and walter mondale. >> we were warned that explosives were on their way. the terrorists have won each time. the president told the terrorists he was going to retaliate. he didn't. >> we are not going to simply kill some people to say, look, we got even. we want to know when we retaliate that we are retaliating with those who are responsible for the terrorist acts. are such that our own united states capital has been bombed twice. complete american history tv schedule, go to

www.c-span.org. >> "washington journal" continues. host: not only is larry sabato the center for politics director for the university of regina, professoritor of -- sabato, welcome. at crystal your work ball, what do you involve yourself with? guest: the center for politics is devoted to civic participation and civic education. it's almost 18 years old here at the university of virginia. i've been at the university of virginia in one capacity or another for 46 years. i would like to think that we are making a contribution to citizen enlightenment, given what's happened this year, we obviously have a long way to go.

crystal ball the is to try to present as much information as we can that is relevant to the presidential , the race for the senate, the house of representatives, governors races and so on, in a nonpartisan fashion. we are free. we are completely free to the public. o's crystal ball, give us an e-mail and we will put them on our list and you will get our crystal ball, which normally comes out thursday mornings at 6:00 a.m., but lately, we've been having a lot of special editions. we are free. we started our last segment talking about the tone of the campaign. do you think tone filters down to how people eventually vote? have various perceptual springs.

the biggest one is party identification. independentsr of actually have a party id. they love to say they are independent because it is popular. tied to't want to be all positions of a particular party, but they normally vote for one party or another. people have a party id. basically this comes through that perceptual screen. the people discard what contradicts their own inclinations for a particular party or candidate. media coverage, people complain about media coverage, people scream it right out -- screen it right out. they reject what doesn't support their position and they are less influence than even perhaps they think.

edition of thest crystal ball talks about the electoral college. particularly what it says about hillary clinton coming out of the debate. caller: we have tracked -- guest: we have tracked this ever since the nominees were obvious. hillary clinton had a large lead, she was above 340 electric boats. she's gone down as low as 273. below 270.er had her not just whatyze the polls are saying, but what -- private tracking shows we've gone through various permutations, we just issued our harkensnd our latest

back to late march. hillary clinton is once again over 340 electoral votes. will that stay the case all the way to november 8? who knows what's going to happen? there's all kinds of october surprises being surprised -- being prepared by both sides. you never know what's going to happen. clinton is a substantial favorite come a very substantial favorite to win the presidency. she getting favorability in swing states? caller: she is winning most -- guest: she is winning most of the swing states. you can count about 10 swing states this year. some people disagree about arizona or georgia, but the only swing state i could see firmly and donald trump's camp at this point is iowa ohio is right on

the borderline. . at this point is iowa. ohio is right on the borderline. in north carolina, they are naturally it tougher state for democrats, but right now, clinton has a slight lead their. she is well ahead in virginia and colorado. ahead in most of the other swing states we commission. we still have arizona and georgia in trump's camp. if there is a large hispanic , it is not impossible that trump could lose arizona. we will have to see.

all of these are developing. has so manyton pathways to 270 electoral votes. donald has only a couple of narrow pathways to 270. does that mean he cannot get there ? no. but he has to thread the needle on 10 needles to get to 70. she might be able to do it. to 270.t he might be able to do it. we watch every hour of every day. host: larry sabato with us to talk about election 2016. trump,support donald 202-748-8001. if you support hillary clinton, 202-748-8000. third-party supporters, 202-748-8002.

if you are undecided, 202-748-8003. in first call is from bill pennsylvania. a supporter of hillary clinton. caller: thank you for taking my call. i am a clinton supporter. in the past, mr. trump has been considered, called a racist and misogynist. withnk he is a sociopath antisocial personality disorder. he disregards the feelings of others. behaviormanipulative and the ability to lie to i wonderne's goal -- if you have any thoughts along those lines. i believe it's far worse than it been described. -- than it's been described. i think he has some mental issues. host: there is a story in "the

washington times" looking at areas outside of philadelphia. can you paint the picture of how that might look, legendary -- that might look come election day? guest: so far, they've been meaning to hillary clinton. when you look at a state like have avania, you will substantial rural vote. is pro-donalde trump. the problem trump has is he is losing overwhelmingly in inner cities, the central cities are majority minority or there is a

large proportion of minorities. is winningnton somewhere between 80 and 85% of all minorities combined. central cities are very pro-clinton. the rural areas are very pro-trump. and the suburbs surrounding the suburbs are the key voters in many states. to this point, they been meaning to hillary clinton. -- they have been leaning to hillary clinton. expect trump to do well in any county where coal mining takes place. cities, the win the larger cities and she will certainly win those keep philadelphia suburbs. it's hard to beat that.

the structural vote in pennsylvania is such that clinton is pretty much guaranteed at least a small majority and maybe more than that. it is tough for trump. it would have been tough for any republican. i remember in 2000 when the republicans held their , theytion in pennsylvania had a lot of campaign tactics and issues geared toward caring pennsylvania and al gore won it easily over george w. bush. the last republican to carry it was george h.w. bush in 1988. host: al in new york state. an undecided voter. .aller: good morning undecided.

however, i know where i'm going to go now. i'm going to vote for hillary clinton. is this.ing i grew up in southern new york in westchester county. we all know who donald trump was, he has always been mr. entertainment. he would always come on in the news about who he was dating, always win in chasing, his business, and so on. i see now that he has taken his , and i take politics serious. although i'm not a college graduate, i do feel politics is an honorable business, or profession, and i think he has taken it to the point of being purely advertising for a cable network where he, like the rush ity's,gh's and the hann and the vile side of politics

make their living, a good living. he has tapped into something that he will not pursue. sabato?. guest: i will stay away from commenting on any personal invectives, or as alec baldwin put it so well on saturday night live, apologize. entitled to the candidates, whether they dislike them or like them. trump is donald concerned, obviously, he come althoughide politics he was always an actor inside politics, a donor to both parties, having large business interests, a large interest in politics. yes, he is outside the political system. a lot of people like that. others say he is unprepared and not qualified to be president, does not know a whole lot about the issues. everyone can judge that for themselves. concord, california, a

supporter of hillary clinton. barbara is next. caller: good morning. i respect you and i have the most respect -- i love you, you are honest, sophisticated, and as far as i'm concerned with donald trump, he just wants a white america and people need to look into this, people, wake up, he wants us to be run like russia. and we need to wake up and pay attention to this. whether you like hillary or not, she will direct us in the right way, she does not have hatred in her heart. donald trump has hatred in his heart. thank you, mr. sabato. i love watching you. guest: that is very kind. i just want people to know i did not pay her. can, ohio.

mike is next. like you saidnded you did not believe the polls, where are you getting your information? caller: i certainly did not say ididn't believe -- guest: certainly did not say i didn't believe the polls. i think it is dangerous when people sure pick the polls. poll,eople look at a inevitably, they go to the one with the highest number for their candidate, because it makes them feel good. there is nothing wrong with that, it is better than taking xanax, but it doesn't tell you anything. when you put all the pull together, essentially what you are getting is an enormous sample, and to some degree, while averages are not perfect, they help to wash out some of the error that exist in individual polls. going to lookare at anything, we need to look at

the objective data that comes from polling. i can tell you is is a heck of a looking at the size of crowds. i'm not talking about donald trump's rallies. looking at the size of crowds. i remember four years ago, at the end of the campaign, the romney campaign, full of terrific professionals, people i respect, were citing two people, including me, the size of romney's grounds, and they were enormous, but he lost by four percentage points and 5 million votes. 1972, ar example from wonderful book, the boys on the bus, timothy krause was the author of the book. he traveled around on the press bus. he reported toward the end of the campaign, distinguished reporters told their editors to be sure to be prepared for a giant upset, that they smelled and upset.

george mcgovern could upset richard nixon. they were asked why. because mcgovern is drawn a million people to his rallies. richard nixon has to produce a much smaller crowd, he has to use party people to produce smaller ground. mcgovern,, george wonderful fellow, lost 49 states to president nixon. i look at data that matters. me, polling averages matter. they are not perfect, they were not handed down to moses on the mount, but as far as the data we , that publice polling average, and some private tracking polls, are very useful indicators. host: next call from nevada. the crystal ball recently had a change of status for nevada. tell us what that is. tossupwe had nevada as a

because most of the polls there had been close, and it is still very close. but again, looking at the early voting, and the organization that the two parties have, the plans to get out the vote, it is pretty obvious that democrats are doing a better job. in nevada, that matters, particularly for latinos voting for democrats. that ever so slightly to hillary clinton. there are 27 days left. we will have several more electoral college maps. i will not guarantee it will stay there. based on information we have today, there is where we have leabed it. host: frank is undecided in las vegas. caller: good morning. mr. sabado, i was wondering what you think to the extent the media is driving opinions about

the election and both candidates. when i listen to the news and i all the, it seems like opinions that the media consultants and surrogates have, they are all negative, and that is what a lot of the voters are hear otherswhen you talk about the election. we are repeating a lot of the opinion we hear on the news and they are often negative, not about issues, and the topic we were discussing before is about the tone of the campaign. i think the tone is being replicated by what the voters are hearing on the news. i wonder what your opinion is on and tod how successful what extent the news media is driving opinion and focusing that on the election.

good: that's a very question and the answer is very complicated, based on the research in that field. it is a two-way street. while the media certainly helps with agenda-setting, well, so do the candidates. they set the agenda based on what they choose to emphasize in their public speeches, tv ads, and the rest of it. unfortunately, it may be a product of the way we are as human beings, is a great deal of emphasis on the negative aspects of each candidate, particularly this year. let's face it, these two candidates are relatively unpopular judging by favorability ratings appear to prior years. my center every year worked with american public television to produce a documentary on some elections topic. this year, we have a documentary coming out in a week or so on

your local pbs stations -- check your local stations for the exact time and date -- on 1966 -- 1976, the election between jimmy carter and gerald ford. the reason we chose that, and we chose it nine months ago, was because we could already see this was going to be a highly .egative election-year that was exactly the opposite, maybe partly because it was the high centennial year, maybe because we were putting watergate behind us, maybe because both president ford and former governor carter had pretty high popularity ratings, even though people have their choice, they gave the other candidate a reasonably high rating. result, there were all kinds of charges and partisanship in the campaign, but people were able to reunite fairly quickly. back in those days we had real

honeymoons for presidents that lasted half a year or more. they can actually get something done during that time. we wanted to remind americans of a different time when people thought about politics and their politicians differently. at what is happening this year, it is pretty obvious that the clinton campaign is focusing on donald trump's negatives and the trunk campaign is focusing on hillary clinton's negatives, and undoubtedly, that drives the discussion among voters. but let's not forget the media is doing that in part because people have negative views of these candidates to begin with. they have had high on favorability the whole year. so it is a two-way street. host: martha is in laurel, maryland. a supporter of hillary clinton. you are on with larry sabato. caller: thank you for taking my

call. amazed howly, really people think hillary clinton is a criminal. but all ofperfect, the stuff that trump throws at her is all lies, and he knows that. accuses her of something 20 years ago that she had nothing to do with, and he has three women accusing him of rape, including a 12-year-old girl who is a woman now, she is taking him to court. froms thousands of cases contractors, workers, business people who did business with the guy, and he steps everybody. to goen he has the nerve and campaign and throw that in her face when she is a professional.

leaving that aside, she knows exactly how to deal with issues, she has an agenda, she can explain about health care, the economy, international policy. caller.ank you, mr. sabado, did you want to respond? caller: obviously, she is a strong supporter of clinton, and this is typical of those that support one or another candidate. we had this perceptual screen and we are inclined to take in information that supports our personal choice and reject information that does not support our personal choice. nothing wrong with that, but that is also why the media has less impact on us than even we think. we are not empty vessels into which the media pours opinions. this is very important to know.

we already have preformed a lawyer manyote years ago, we are not potted plants. we are voters with opinions and batteries attached. host: a viewer on twitter asks about the state of utah, wondering if it would go to trump. you noticed a change in that state as well. any pollsn before were taken, we decided to change utah, which is normally one of the three most republican states , somewhere around 70% republican in presidential elections. we lowered its rating from safe republican to lean republican. we had no knowledge of a poll released this morning. you can go to a newspaper in utah, and there is a poll by another agency, but they reported it.

.onald trump is at 26% hillary clinton is at 26%. here is the real surprise -- an additional surprise. evan mcmullen, an independent candidate being supported by some conservatives such as bill 22%, meanings at it is a three-way dead heat statistical tie in utah. utah. why did this happen? the governor of utah, governor unendorsed donald trump. he didn't reluctantly. mitt romney has a lot of influence in utah. he is strongly opposed to donald trump. a rat of congressmen and women from utah renounced their endorsement of donald trump. senator mike lee of utah, who is up for reelection, has renounced his support of donald trump.

it is no secret that many of the leaders of the church of latter day saints, mormons, do not like donald trump. this is a state that listens to leadership. i spent some time in utah over the years, it is a wonderful, gorgeous state. theirople there listen to leaders, they will pay attention closely to public affairs. agoou had told me a year that the eventual republican nominee would be at 26% in any poll in utah, i would have said fire the poster. ster.ll i don't know what is going to happen, but i'm glad we have ofered it to lean, because that rating has been validated by this poll. the headline says trump

falls into tie with clinton on the utah voters. next in pennsylvania, a supporter of donald trump. caller: i would like to see you do a poll -- i will give you an example using myself. after i see what paul ryan is , heg to senator pat toomey is going along with paul ryan. i am a republican and i like toomey, but it arrived want a democrat president, i will help him, and i will vote for a democrat senator. i am sure there are a lot of people like me who will do this. 12mp had anywhere from million to 14 million votes. they are throwing my vote away and they are throwing away the guy i want to win. if this is going to happen, i want to see a poll on that. paul ryan will get as many democrat votes in his state as he will republican, so the guy

is a rino. i have seen him criticize troops for putting 20 years in service and getting a pension. losing their arms and legs. meanwhile, he says he will not put in any time running the house of representatives because he did not want to sacrifice time away from his family. this gentleman is expressing a viewpoint that should send shivers down the spines of republican leaders, and i have heard a great deal of it. most people in the political community have heard of it. the republicans are in a corner -- they are cornered by the situation that has developed this year. dan and if they do, day and if they don't. it boils down to this. because many of the republican

,eaders, paul ryan, pat toomey who has either unendorsed or never made an endorsement of donald trump. i cannot figure out where he is on this but it's obvious he is not with donald trump. he is hoping that will enable him to win over some voters in the middle who will not vote for ,onald trump but somebody else whether it is hillary clinton or somebody else on the ballot. at the same time, he is alienating trump supporters like the gentleman who just called. he will lose it from one side or the other, and it is a reason why some of these incumbent senators and maybe house members -gerrymandered districts, if there are any, may suffer, because they are unable to keep their party together while the democrats surprisingly are pretty united. growing up, it was the old phrase, i belong to no organized political party, i'm a democrat.

democrats were the disorganized party. today, the republicans are riven by factions. these factions are proving very damaging in this election and they might cause the republicans to lose control of the senate. while i doubt it, even the house. let's go to dan, georgetown, massachusetts. third-party supporter. caller: thanks for having me on this morning. larry, i am wondering if you the smith london act. guest: give me that again? t act.: the smith-mund i remember the senator but i'm not familiar. bill passede was a

in the 1950's that said the government would not use taxpayer money to propagandize within the borders of the united states, and we were saying we were better than russia because we would not have the government propagandize its citizens. 2012, that was rescinded, in one of the mdaa's. host: what would you like our guest to address on that? is, thewhat i am saying government, through the media, can now lie to us, as long as it is in the best interest of the government, and it is now legal. host: ok, thanks. covington, georgia. supporter of hillary clinton.

good morning, thank you for taking my call. i am an independent who will be voting for the candidate who i think is best prepared and has the experience. who i was comment was voting for, but what bothers me is, when i listen to the polling results, very few tell you the sampling. they will tell you of ohio is for trump or hillary, but they only call 300 people, only 800 people. i know that you cannot call 8000, but here i sit in covington, georgia. i am a conservative independent college educated housewife, african-american, caribbean american, whatever you want to call me, and i have taken one

poll in this season. i do not feel it is fair for anyone to take any credence in any poll, if they do not tell you in the beginning, this is just a sampling. the report is we think these are the most unfavorable. who did you ask? did you ask 500 people? did you ask some who were leading democrat? it is very unfair if you don't give correct information to those who are looking at your that theysults, so are not swayed by the results. people are being swayed by the results, saying americans are dissatisfied with these candidates. how many american said that? you did not call me. call.thank you for the

mr. sabato. guest: we could talk all day about polling policies, and i understand what you are suggesting, but the american policy of research has standards for polling organizations. whenever there is a media report should carryey that information, how many were interviewed, the margin of error, when the poll was conducted, when it was random sample, when it was online, live interview. all of that information should be in the account for people to evaluate the poll. sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. legitimate polling organizations always make the public. online, got see it to the polling group and you will find it. host: you spoke about the senate briefly. tell us what races are the ones to watch to see if, indeed, it

may turn over to democratic hands. we have all of this on our website, you can go to itics.org or just google sabato's crystal ball. it could go one way or the other by the end of the election season, but right now we believe it is very close. we have 47 democrats to 47 republicans. we are obviously counting the seats that are not of this year. two thirds of the senate is not up is here. but the six seats that will determine the senate, in our view, includes two republican .tates, missouri and indiana very close races in both of those states, essentially tied.

then we have two blue states, pennsylvania and new hampshire. new hampshire is closer to purple but it is really blue. pennsylvania and new hampshire have very close races. it hillary clinton wins pennsylvania and or new hampshire by a wide margin, i am sure the democratic candidates for senate will be elected. if she doesn't, the republicans have a shot. then you have two w purple states, north carolina and nevada. very close races. it depends on the poll. in one, the republican candidate will be up, and the next, the democratic candidate will be up. this will change as we go through these last 27 days. naturally, voters focus first on the presidential race. much of the vote is determined .y their party identification must've it is determined by turnout, which gets more side to get more of the people to turn out in any given sick -- estate.

we have six very close races. turnovers,races as wisconsin and illinois, both of which have republican senators up for reelection but we expect the democratic challengers to win. i think the senate is almost certainly going to be closer than it is now, 54 republicans, 46 democrats. how much closer or whether the democrats take control, we have to watch it day by day all the way up to november 8. howard from philadelphia, a supporter of donald trump. caller: good morning. you are talking about -- larry is talking about polls, polls, polls. people are trying to say, we do not believe the polls. you are saying don't look at the crowds, don't look at his grounds. what are you saying?

he is drawn 20,000 people but you are saying, the polls, the polls. the leaked you seen memo from the clinton campaign to larry murphy at monmouth university? callerguest: no. caller: well, right there. take a look at it. change the narrative. it is online. i will be happy to take a look at it, but i don't think it will change my overall point, which has been formed over the 50 years that i have been interested and involved in politics. i am not saying crowns are not important. it is terrific to have enthusiasm and people turn up and get their enthusiasm pumped up further, but i'm sorry, compared to the broader population, even 30,000, 40,000

people gathered in one place does not mean very much in i highly populated state. mcgovern's george massive crowns in 1972 which dwarfed richard nixon's and nick's and carried 49 states and mcgovern won massachusetts and the district of columbia. i'm not saying this is going to be a landslide. i don't believe in that because we are so polarized. there will be many red states a motive for trump, many blue states voting for clinton. looking for data that matters, you naturally look at random sample polling, real polling, not this online junk where people calling repeatedly to register 10 or 20 votes for the candidate of their choice. those things are worthless. i'm talking about random sample polling of one sort or another. that is what we look at, whether they are public or private polls. hear from mary in

illinois, an undecided voter. first of all, i want to complement larry. i watch him on the fox network quite a bit, and i think he really knows his stuff. -- i amependent voter an independent voter. a democrat, my mother was a republican, so they cancel each other out in the polls every year. but the democrats that we see today are not my dad's democrats. it is a totally different democratic party. but illy vote independent have come to the conclusion this year that i'm going to vote for enamoredt because i am with either side. i see the negatives on both sides. and i want to --

mention that i am a college educated, bachelors and masters degree, independent woman who .oes thinking and evaluating i still have come to the conclusion that i think he will be a better choice this election year. there is too much political corruption in washington. democrats, of the hillary clinton, you have 30 years basically doing very little. there are too many political dynasties on both sides of the republican and democratic party. you see that with the bushes. you see it with the clintons. i just think there ought to be more in the line of term limits. host: mary, thank you for the call. we have to wrap up. mr. sabato, with the changing nature of what you do, when you look at polling and other information, making

determinations of what will be the end result with 27 days out? as i said, this campaign, pedro, has been the most intense campaign at the national level that i can recall. i thought we had seen some intense campaigns. 1960, the first one i was pay close attention to, 1968, 1980, barack obama's election in 2008. we have had some intense campaigns but this has been the wildest residential campaign at least in my adult lifetime, even as a child. you have to watch it hourly. i'm always amazed when i wake up and i will frequently watch c-span -- thank god for c-span. i have spent a sizable amount of my adult life watching c-span, i hope you appreciate that. the long and short of it is, you

have to follow this hour-by-hour. believeake up, i cannot how many stores have developed overnight. it has rarely been this intense on both sides. rarely do you have so many factors involved in the campaign on both sides. it is a tough one to keep up with, it is a tough one to but all of us in the field do as best we can. larry sabato, university of virginia center for politics, editor in chief at the crystal looks at the changing nature in presidential politics, but also house and senate races. thanks for your time this morning. you, i enjoyed it. appreciated all the calls. host: coming up, a look at the latest concern with isis. we will be joined by ebs "frontline" correspondent martin

smith. and then later on, nicole hemmer of political magazine. she will talk about the birth and rise of conservative media in the united states. >> before the final debate between hillary clinton and donald trump, we look back to past presidential debates. this saturday at 8:00 p.m. on debatec-span, the 1984 between president ronald reagan and former vice president walter mondale. we are at understand democracy, we are a government by the people, and when we move, it should be for very severe and extreme reasons that serve our national interest and end up with a strong will country behind us. i will not make age an issue of the campaign. i will not exploit for political

purposes my opponent's youth and inexperience. [laughter] the 1988 presidential debate between vice president -- george h.w. bush and michael dukakis. the deficitring down $30 million a year, build economic growth, build a good, strong future in america, invest in those things in which we must invest in, economic development, good jobs. ini wish he would join me appealing to the american people the balancing of the federal government and the line-item veto. like to have that line-item veto for the president because i think that would be extraordinarily helpful. 2008 debate with illinois senator barack obama and arizona senator john mccain. >> the situation today cries out for bipartisanship. senator obama has never taken on

the leaders of his own party on a single issue. and we need to reform. so let's look at our records as well as our rhetoric. that is really part of your mistrust here. >> we are going to have to make some investments but we also have to mix of spending cuts. you will hear senator mccain spending, but actually, i am cutting more than i'm spending so that it will be a net spending cut. the key is whether or not we have priorities that are working for you. >> walked past presidential debates, saturday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span, watch anytime on www.c-span.org and listen on the c-span radio app. joining us from new york is martin smith, corresponded with pbs's "frontline" and has put together a documentary looking at isis, confronting

isis is the name of the documentary. thank you for your time. what was your goal putting together this documentary, what were you looking for? initially, the idea was to produce a one-our program on u.s. efforts to defeat isis. i had produced a program that aired in october 2014 not long after isis sort of came on everybody's radar called "the rise of isis. ." this was to be a follow-up program on that. i was interested in the regional coalition that was greatly touted as evidence that everyone was pulling with us in this fight, so we went up to the middle east and visited saudi arabia, jordan, iraq, iraqi , and it wasurkey immediately clear this was a much bigger project i had originally envisioned, in that

in each of those cases when you really dig into what those regional partners are oftributing, you find none them really shared the feeding isis as their number one priority. they don't share that priority with us. they have other concerns. focus of thehe documentary going through these countries, talking to officials howothers to really get at do they see this war, what was their perspective on this? any time you have one of these regional coalitions, you have to howparticular attention to much and they will contribute, are they really on board with us? programe a two-hour that unraveled a lot of the complexity. anyone who thinks the feeding isis is a simple proposition

need to take another look at the problem. with ourwill talk more guests about the documentary. if you want to ask about his findings on isis. mr. smith, we are showing the audience a portion of the documentary. this pertains to the statement that you made about where our goals are. a look at saudi arabia and a portion looking at the balance, the delicate balance between u.s. and saudi arabia and interests. we will show this and then get your thoughts on it. >> went to speak to the foreign intelligence chief. he admits isis has roots here but says it is an aberration. >> isis is a cancer. where do they come from?

they come from healthy cells in the body, but the rest of the body is healthy, so yes, isis does some of the actions that can be pointed to being similar to what we do, but we have a judicial system. >> sharia law. >> sharia law. we are not going to give that up for anything. is the kind of justice often practiced here in saudi arabia can appear indistinguishable from sharia justice as practiced by isis. saudi arabia is on the left, isis on the right. you wouldsmith, if not mind putting some context to what we just heard. saudi arabia and the united states have a long we all know -- about the dependence the united states had for so many decades on saudi arabia for oil, there

have also been a lot of arms sales. so that relationship has been very tight. on the other hand, saudi arabia ,s the birthplace of wahhabism and particularly strict , and ittation of islam is that branch of islam from which isis springs. you find in saudi arabia and wheregulf states wahhabist's and their practices are entrenched in society, are simpatico with isis. it is not to say -- although we are now seeing from wikileaks new documents that indicate support from qatar and saudi arabia directly to isis -- it has always been well known that shakes with deep pockets have

supported sunni jihadist groups, whether it was al qaeda or now isis. but what we were exploring in that segment was the commonality between isis and saudi arabia. you have a real schizophrenia in saudi arabia. princes, at all, would subscribe to the forms of practice that isis does. in fact, isis attacked saudi arabia, but still, it is the place from which isis springs, theologically. host: if all of these regional partners that we have had interests -- in different interests in fighting isis, different goals, what does that mean for the u.s. overall? guest: it just means it is a difficult thing to negotiate. we have, in saudi arabia, their

primary worry, their existential fear, is the encroachment of iran through various proxy forces, whether has a lot lebanon, assad in syria, shia militias in iraq, or the effort to support tutee rebels in yemen. aboutarabia is concerned the advances being made in the region by iran. they were very upset about the nuclear deal negotiated by the obama administration, and this became the number one concern. isis is something they care about, but it is not their primary concern. therefore, that makes it difficult when the u.s. comes to saudi arabia and asks, you need to crack down on your teachers spreadingers who are

a beer lent form of islam that hobbies, jews, christians, non-wahhabi muslims, are infidels and sanctioning violence against them. that makes it difficult for the u.s. to get the kind of cooperation from the saudi's. " is where"frontline our guest is associated, a correspondent. the first call for you comes from pat in oregon on the independent line. morning, thank you for taking my call. i watched that show last night and it made it pretty clear to me what is going on over there. areerent factions and sects more important in their own countries.

would be nuts for us to get involved in that. now russia is involved, so we have to go against russia. that could end up being bigger than world war ii ever was. i wanted to especially tell good that was, and you are the best show on tv. i always look forward to the show. guest: thank you very much. you are right, there fault lines through those countries there, both sectarian and that can -- ethnic . getting involved in that region has been difficult because the borders do not conform with the actual groupings of the people. iraqi is an example where you have in that country kurds, sunnis, arabs, shiite arabs all making claims to power and not

cooperating, at each other's throats, literally, often. unfortunately, it isis poses a threat to both europe and united states -- and we can talk about how big that threat is -- united states needs to be involved. we opened a pandora's box when president bush went into iraq on false pretenses. that opened a pandora's box. out of that was created al qaeda in iraq, which morphed into isil.daesh, like it or not, we are involved. host: brian, republican line, go ahead. caller: i did watch your show last night. slicklyd a very

produced youtube video of the jordanian pilot hitting isis. i had a couple of questions about that. how do you vet that to make sure it is true? there were some disturbing pictures of children encouraging people to be shot. did you think the father of the pilot was interviewed extensively on your show, do you think he received any satisfaction? thank you for listening to my questions. guest: you raise an interesting question, how do you vet the isis tapes? s aref isis' video propaganda videos. the fact that the pilot has never returned -- if that is not real burning -- i have witnessed that tape unblurred.

we blurred it to save some people some heartache at home. but it is clear, that man is burning to death. i have no doubt in my mind that that is real. trickery or special effects being used in that burning. it is always a difficult thing to take these videos and understand what they are, but you can triangulate from other sources. you can look at what else we know about that time and place that isis may be representing in a video. usually, you can verify what you are seeing as real. plus, there are a number of people that have joined isis, discovered it was not what they expected, and left. they speak out, and they talk in the making of these videos.

so you get a sense from them as to what is real and what is not. host: falls church, virginia. democrats line. joe, go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call. first of all, i love your show "frontline." my main concern is whenever i speak with trump supporters or anyone that is promilitary -- and i'm from the d.c. area -- they think there are thousands ,f these lone wolf isis people and i think that is incredibly escalated. i believe that is where the real threat is. these propaganda videos are leading especially youth to do things that are kind of in the moment. i am wondering if there is a cohesive way that we are trying to address that problem of the war of propaganda.

it is not something that we particularly got into in this broadcast, cyber warfare against isis. i know the administration has stepped up their efforts in that regard, but i cannot comment directly because it was not the primary focus of this particular broadcast. i did not dig into that. i think there is a fear, as isis gets thrown out of its ,tronghold in iraq and syria that a lot of the fighters that flocked to them in 2014 will be leaving. many have left. there is no doubt isis is feeling the pressure. their output of propaganda .ideos has lessened obviously, when you drop 15,000

bombs on them, it is going to have an effect. there are some ground incursions, special forces are being used against them in syria . you are seeing some of these people return to their home countries, and there is a threat, and there have been mornings made by our government officials that we should expect to see more attacks in europe and perhaps in the u.s. -- not so much in the u.s. from , butning isis fighters from people that take inspiration from these videos. but you can take perhaps some comfort in knowing the output of isis, in terms of propaganda videos, is decreasing. it is not, by any means, over. we don't know how this will twist and morph in the near future. right now, the battle for mozilla is imminent or retaking mosul.

what happens to those fighters is a big open question. host: from your reporting, what faces these forces and others in mosul particularly? what faces the troops that will be involved in the attack, in the effort against mosul? them, i'm sorry. well, we don't know exactly. is being, mosul softened up by an air campaign theround -- and around target for the various forces going in there, but it is a large city. -- at leastulation initially a lot of people were sympathetic with isis. they were sworn enemies of the government of norristown maliki

al-maliki. after two years of occupation by isis, they are looking forward to liberation. that is my guess. the problem on the ground in raqaa,cities like mosul, isis is intermingled with the bigger population, so you cannot go in and carpet bombed them, which was what was suggested by one of the republican candidates, without a lot of killing of civilians who are not collaborators or supporters, just simply people keeping their head down trying to stay alive. so you have to go in with ground forces. there is a multipronged attack that will take shape over the next weeks or months. they keep hinting at it. i think they are announcing this battle in order to see -- this is my guess -- to see how isis

reacts, observing them through satellites, or spy and then they can get a sense of what they need to do next. obvious people -- obviously, a lot of people are streaming out of mosul as the battle nears. for: alan is our next guest martin smith of "frontline." alan from texas, good morning. caller: good morning. i heard that a muslim who sees another muslim breaking the laws of the united states cannot report it -- good morning. host: you have to keep going and not listen to the tv. we are going to put you on hold. i heard what you said but

i know nothing about that. i cannot comment. it sounds pretty unlikely. there are muslims in this country, there have been muslims in this country for a couple .undred years they are american citizens like anyone else. who act as be some you suggest, but i have never heard of that. host: vermont, independent line. hello, i am proud to have lived here since 1985. opinion, not something against the country. -- they ares

supposed to provide soldiers to syria and iraq. saudi arabia is the wealthiest country. they take money. the amount of money from all over the world is out of belief. defend, not just the united states of america. they are supposed to give .efugees a temporary place place, not only united states and europe, and this assad is not a human being. the thing that aside, iran, and russia does is really heartbreaking. host: mr. smith, go ahead.

it is very hard to know exactly everything that saudi arabia is and is not contributing. working in saudi arabia -- this is my fourth or fifth trip there. i found this trip particularly difficult in the fact that finding officials to talk was difficult, finding officials that would talk openly and honestly and sincerely was even more difficult. voicesd our best to find that we felt we could trust. you know, they are closed about their participation, even on the business of the airstrikes. they made all sorts of claims, i asked for a list of airstrikes so i could see their exact contribution. they promised about and did not give it to us. as far as them making a lot of

, that is of the haaj of course true. saudi arabia is not a poor country, although they do have problems, more recently. how much of a are contributing to the war is the question that i went in with. that thatg i got was is a schizophrenic society where you have people that are trying ,o nudge the country, younger at least in the saudi frame, progressive, trying to move the country away from this embrace of a very strict interpretation of islam. some would call it a medieval interpretation of islam, wahhabism. on the other side, you have people that are dug in, conservative. they even see isis as sort of the shock troops against the encroachment of iran.

it is very hard. i am somewhat sympathetic with the saudi's in terms of how much they can move their society that is really founded on this idea will have this place and this interpretation of islam will survive. moving saudi arabia from that is a challenge for saudi's themselves, i think. host: we will show the audience a bit more of the documentary. this is you traveling with kurdish fighters. explain what you were doing there, how long you traveled. set it up for us. guest: there were several trips are made with kurdish fighters. i think you are talking when i go to a bunker and overlook a city. it is you traveling with the peshmerga, i think. guest: yes, that's right.

we were in northern iraq, in the land controlled by the peshmerga kurdish fighters. we came upon a village that had seen heavy fighting last year, talked to them about the conditions there. they were in a bunker overlooking a town. since i was there, it was retaken with the help of u.s. .ir support now it is a major base of operations for the mosul campaign. when i was there, they were still bunkered there, mortars daily, one fell while i was there. that is the one i think you are about to run. host: from the documentary "confronting isis" on pbs "frontline."

they were among the first targets isis hit in june 2014. >> there is a truck moving on this side of the river. i could hear isis fighters chatter on the radio. >> [speaking foreign language] --

host: martin smith, how did they take to you as a journalist and before you could build up rapport to even get the interviews? i have a lot of ground in iraq, covered it starting in 2003, american invasion. and i have my own rolodex, if you will, of contacts. in the case of the kurds, i was warzar here by a fixer, great excellent, has

.onnections inside kurd kurd hard e working the phones before we left or during the we could.neup what was organized through this one fixer on the ground. dayere fortunate to spend a peshmerga. caller: i appreciate your report, incredible reporting. a whole new appreciation for the policies, as barack bama has pursued it because it is complex issue. i guess i have a couple of quick questions. has to do with trump's notion that he is just going to and secondly, what would be the advantage of using

radical islam since that is what the right wing continues to push. like your notions about how we proceed given how the frame ing has been thanksgiving whole issue. uest: you know, you raise a couple interesting points. don't really understand what trump's position is on this, what mr. trump is saying, he has a ecret plan, it would be mistake to unveil what it is you know, t would, signal to people two isis what and therefore, they'd be able to prepare. there have been various time when is he has announced that it is in his "so easy," that we can take them down. spend anies time looking at this recognizes this is not just like a group that is sitting in a desert somewhere

that you just have to bomb them nd they will be gone and everything will be over. all these problems in the middle know, all these problems involving isis, are with so many other problems, so i can't his y speak to what strategy is at this point. repeat the other half of your question. host: bob, you still there? to be this s obsession with labelling it the -- islam and given guest: oh, yeah. caller: i would like to know about that.s frankly, ll, you know, it's not something i've given a lot of thought to. what t really understand the need for labeling is and, can't w, they say you defeat it until you call it what it is. administration is serious about going after isis,

i think obama is a cautious he promised not to send us into combat again in the middle east and certainly doesn't want to see american men and women die in another messy region.he and nothing is really messier han this situation, that i've ever seen. know,at you call them, you i just think it is a little beside the point, that is my own opinion. i didn't get to -- i've never down in tten bogged that. look, there are these guys that jihadist, wahabis, i don't lack there oft or abeling them one thing or

another, let's understand what world. to a safer host: you are on frontline. caller: thanks for taking my call. first thing i would like to say, ike many people before me, congratulate mr. smith on the terrific documentary. bad, too bad that can't be like that seen by the majority of the public, to give them a better idea, because i personally follow this stuff, but there are people who have just no idea in the world what is going on and the complications of the thing. and when you see now turks are the fighting kurds and so te against sunni, convoluted nmy opinion, and what i thinkhink about this,

the united states should concentrate the best they can on defeating isis. facet 't get into every of the middle east at once, it's like trying to do a hundred things at once. i mean, we can't solve this questions simplest of abortion, i mean, you know, i ean something you think people could agree on some kind of compromise. here you have a thousand pieces in the air at the same ime and some people come along and make it sound like, we can do this with a quick snap of a finger. host: charlie, thank you. caller: just ridiculous. host: thank you. guest: yeah. it is enormously complex. and ull on the thread everything starts to unravel. look, the president is trying to suggesting, re which is focus on isis. that makes a lot of sense in iraq. more difficult when you cross the border into the

sanctuary in syria. and there, you've got them disordervantage of the created by this five-year-old civil war. and as long as that war rages, that is the opinion of many in can't defeatat you where there or capitol is, or you can bring the of syria to the table and get some kind of settlement. working hard been on this, tried to make deals with the russians, they haven't at all, every attempt at getting to some kind of failed.re has but, i don't have an answer to the syrian mess. i think that people are trying there is even some

thinking inside the administration that we aired, we should have made a no-fly zone in northern syria years ago. involved.ssians are mrs. clinton talks about a no-fly zone, i don't know how that the work now russians are flying in the air space. are we going to confront them? is a big decision, to say the least. isis is what on the administration has been to do, but can you just isis when it is connected to so many other syria? especially in now that was the question we asked, i'm fortunate to be in question-asking business, i'm not necessarily one that has answers. host: would you -- how would you white house and the pentagon view the fight

gainst isis, are they on the same page? guest: you know, any time you have a difficult issue like be a lotre is going to of dissension, we make a lot of out of that and we make headlines about isagreements, but let's face it, that's the way policy gets made. people get in a room and argue people have different opinions. i think by and large they are on there have e, but been differences, there were s in 2014 with secretary of defense and we show the documentary. you can see that pretty clearly. hagel felt that we weren't dealing with the assad issue and we were trying to focus too and that is the opinion of saudi arabia, opinion of the turks, the opinion of most talk to in the region.

talking with secretary carter at this point, on the same re page, you raised another point people make these simple suggestions about how we just go in there and take them easy.d it is so it is disheartening to me to see this complex issue like one and there are many other issues, of course, but in the it gets reduced to sound bites. describe and solve these problems with simple sound just absurdity and disservice to all of us. to think ds us all that somehow, somebody will be able to score points against opponent with a simple that it is ridiculous falsehood. we have to discuss and disagree,

takes time and understanding that isn't current in the debate. documentary aired last night, can folks see it online? they can go to frontline.org, www.frontline.org, they can see it there. there be airing indefinitely. for free, i must add. host: al from warren, ohio, independent line, good morning. morning.ood question and comment. how many different countries is currently in? and you guys listening? hear?ou host: yeah g. ahead. caller: not sure about my phone. ow many different countries is isis in now? you are right about going into good idea, the bigger mistake was pulling our

troops out of iraq, the biggest mistake. we had them subdued. ast two years of mr. bush's, nobody was getting killed over there. we needed to stay there. imagine the basis we could have had to fight isis? everything going on right now in iraq wouldn't have been even started happening, they come border, we could have laid them out. simple as that. when you are talking about saddam, when the red light came up, russia didn't go in for what? months.hree he crossed the red line, we should have hit every military a month ver there for straight and maybe that rebels would have took over by now. al, we'll let our guest respond, thanks for the call. yeah.: well, the mistake was to get out, you're saying. keep in mind e to that the iraqis wanted us out, madewas the agreement they with president bush that we

and indeed in 2011 we did. the criticism made, mostly from aisle, we side of the didn't try hard to renegotiate, congole the iraqis us stay.eing to let you have to remember, too, general consensus in the united congress and n among the public, that it was there. get out of people had seen enough, you too many american servicemen and women die in iraq and they wanted out. or worse, it was left in the hands of what turned a corrupt prime minister with sectarian leanings that allowed for isis to receive support from sunni tribes in various provences in iraq and thus you

have the problem that you have. as far as your other point about red line, look, there is a of president sm on not striking at that time. i talked to people in the pentagon at that time, they were also shocked. their finger was on the trigger, go. were ready to the historians will be debating this one for a long time as to have r or not we should done what we claimed we were going to do, certainly in the egion the united states lost a lot of credibility for backing on its for the president backing down on his pledge to strike. before this film one called "obama at war," that xamined the red line question in detail and i think in that program, you can see both sides the debate. you can see that film on website at

www.frontline.o www.frontline.org, "obama at war," so i'll leave you to watch are interested, but couple of very big points. do: from this documentary, you plan to make another return near it this topic in the future? guest: yeah, i guess that -- i'm crazy enough to do that. going to be working on a program called "the war inside will examine between lly the fight sunni and shia in islam. so that will be another two-hour next m that will air october. for the next year that is what going engaged in doing, back to the region in january or february. host: martin smith, a and reporter for

"confronting isis," a at mentary taking a look isis in various parts of the middle east. ou can see that at the frontline site. mr. smith, thank you for your time. pedro. thank you, host: coming up, weekly spotlight on magazine segment. rise of ok at the conservative media in the united states with nicole hemmer, a contributor and author of "messages of the right media and e transformation of american politics," that conversation takes place next. >> initially when i was trying to come up with my documentary was a little m, i bit daunted because there were just so many different elements trying to put into it and just a lot of information to seven communicate in

minutes. but then i took a step back and realized that it really is just visual essay, and i've been writing essays all throughout high school. something that became a little less daunting as i looked rom that perspective of just gathering information and instead of writing that it.rmation, i'm filming i would urge anybody who is thinking about making a piece cam, to reach out to as many different people as they lot of get a interviews, get as many different perspectives as you an, because there are experts that are so much more knowledgeable about the subject many of are and as those people that you can get in your piece, the more credibility have, it e is going to is not just a high school tudent trying to solve this massive problem, it turns into you're contributing useful information by compiling perspectives. >> this year's theme, your to washington, d.c.,

tell us what is most urgent issue for new president and 2017?ess to address in our competition is open to all middle school or high school 6-12, with ades $100,000 awarded in cash prizes. work alone or in a group up to three to produce a five to seven-minute documentary issue selected. include c-span programing and explore opposing opinions. $100,000 in cash prizes will be awardd and shared between 150 students and 53 teachers. the grand prize, $5000 go to the or team with best overall entry. this year's deadline is january 2017. calendars and help us spread the word to student filmmakers. for information go to student cam dot org. >> "washington journal" continues. host: our recent piece in political magazine looks a in the unitededia states, the topic of spotlight,

magazine segment, how media learn to play politics. joining us is the author, nicole wrote the book "messengers of the right conservative media and of american n politics," nicole hemmer. good morning. guest: good morning. you get interested in this topic? guest: it started with an bsession with contemporary conservative media. my dad in 2004, wanted me to ote for george w. bush and so we were driving in the car one day and he flipped on the radio would changet that my vote. if i listened to conservative alk radio, it would change my politics and that was fascinating to me. i got kind of obsessed with conservative media and a few months later, i was flipping through old editions of nation magazine and found this 1964 article called "hate heir," it was about the influence of radical right 1964 election.he

and when i found out there was then i knew is, what i needed to do. host: when it comes to history birthplace for conservative media as we know it? would say chicago is the birthplace n. chicago and surrounding area you got the ise of human events, conservative publishing, the ain publishing house for conservative writing and the indiana, that in starts in 1954 and one of the premiere conservative talk radio the 1950s and 1960s. manion?hat is clarence guest: he has interesting history, the dean of notre dame law. he wrote "the key to peace," and the short stent in eisenhower administration and he got fired. promoting conservative views, eisenhower disagreed with. people gave him hon and he said,

go on the radio and spread your message. they gave him enough for 13 eeks, he was on the air for 25 years. host: how influential was he? guest: he was actually sort of driving force behind making arry goldwater, the face of conservatism in the early 1960s, responsible for organizing ghost writing and publishing conscious of conservative and organizing americans for goldwater, the 1960.gn for goldwater in incredibly influential figure in world and electoral politics. host: more about this discussion hemmer, as you learn about the birthplace of conservative media and influences. you want to ask her questions, call on the lines and pick the best line that represents you. make sure that if you call within the last 30 days, hold today.om doing so talk about mr. manion, and influence of barry goldwater, he was about how dissatisfied with what was going on politically.

could you paint the picture what was going on at the time? guest: the big break point, 1952, mr. conservative was supposed to be next in line for the republican nomination. a sudden, this person who had no political experience, in, ht eisenhower, swoops gets nomination and the conservatives are left without a party. a place for e themselves within the republican party, within the democratic party and so they begin to organize. 1956, manion is campaign manager ticket.ird-party by 1960, he has his eyes on true-blue or true-red republican and isn't going to leave the party. other conservatives begin to focus on the republican party organizing within it and the nomination which they do in '64. direct marriage between conservative media and involve nment political activity? guest: pretty close. national review, which gets

ounded in 1955, a lot of disillusionment about the nomination race within the gop, launching thep to magazine, they're talking with congressmen lican and senators trying to see who they can promote in the 1956 campaign. focus on lways electoral politics. the idea being fwe develop a we will be able to develop the leadership, ideas and influence we need in order political power and to effect political change. ost: when it comes to the birthplace, how widespread was the pushlishing arm of the media radio arm? guest: there were different audien publishing, you had publishing that has pretty big best-selling books, national review and human circulation isn't that big, it's in the 40 to 50,000 1960s.or most of the conservative talk radio, there

eren't many shows, but they there tional in reach were no way near as present rush limbaugh on top stations, three hours a day, culisten to pretty much anywhere in the nation you go. is a 15-minute show once a week. way.s different in that but it was national and that was really important because it helps build a national movement.ve host: nicole hemmer is our conservative media and transformation of american olitics, go to the pages of politico, how conservative media learned to play politics, here conservative the media and politics as part of spotlight on magazine segments. is shawn is the first call. shawn from florida, on the line democrats, shawn, you are on with our guest. caller: hello.

host: you are on, go ahead. go ahead, please. yes.r: i have to say to couple of question, first of all, if you could say -- ask hillary clinton one question, what would that be you're cute.y, guest: well, i think if i were beask one question, it would whether vision for america is in explicit and very terms, so to spell out in detailed way what america will like, a term or two into the administration, we don't idea, ave this particularly in trump's case of what they are pushing back of what but the idea they would build. ost: montana, democrat's line,p. j. caller: good morning. to ask the guest, thurmond played

in the establishment of media and e conservative thought all together? guest: strom thurm ond wasn't central to media figures i important it is an question, in pointing to strom thurm ond, two different things, of the hanging democratic coalition n. 1948, lead the mond helping dixie away from the democratic party. conservatives take advantage of. the other part of it is the the ion of racism and question of the civil rights movement. roles the most important conservative media played in the ate 1950s and early 1960s was to begin to purge overtly racist the conservative movement n. 1957, national publishes "why the south prevail," it was

straight-forward white supremacy, that disappears by 1960s which it comes to the american racial scene. because ery important it begins to craft a language of constitutionalism and individual vice that doesn't have that overt visible racism in it and necessary for it to become really a national movement. host: did you find issue of race segregation within the media forms of radio at birthplace of manion and other talk show hosts? in terms of segregation and issue of th segregation? guest: they talk about the issue of segregation, tend to talk neterms of constitutionalism and rights, there is not, even in the papers, not a private language of racism. programs that were not national, tom anderson traight talk, which was he was arch segregationist, someone who racism overt about his and segregationist.

a fanorward and manion is of george wallace, not talking about segregation, but having wallace talk about popularism and anti-establishment and that i think is important shift, he's not going to have him say segregation 1968, butspecially in to reach out to conservatives. ost: next from nina in west palm beach, florida. democrats line. beach, m west palm hello. caller: yes, hello. host: you're on. caller: okay. a question because, has now, today foreign aid a stigma attached to it and u.s. ederal budget less than 1% of that in their federal budget, so i want to know, you know, when getting suchtarted when tive perception and we when did that become part of culture?can ideal and guest: i'm not sure when it

became a central issue. in the 1950s and '60s, origins were from noninterventionist, big shift in the 1970s and '80s. okay start, they were with foreign aid, just much less okay with foreign interventions. tos attention gets paid foreign aid as one of those drivers of the growth of the national budget. or programs that get cut targeted are not the ones that are driving the cost of government spending. there is something about each case that makes them targets that fit within the conservative

ideology. i have a question. orn the government independent news agency or polling agency takes a poll and you hear the results, what you don't know is what the questions were and the audience they asked. they sample is leaning one way or the other, when that be skewed to those folks based on the sample meaning they are the majority of who want to lean left or right. can get anw if you actual 50-50 split with the sample you are asking those questions too. i want to know how can you find out what the questions were? guest: a couple of different things. we can look at what are called cross tabs, the information of manyemographics, how

republicans, democrats. we don't want pollsters to get a 50-50 split. sampling,a random they are trusting they are going to get a representative sample. isthey see one group overrepresented, they might flagged that. that could also signal to get more democrats than republicans, that can be something that is shifting in the electorate. take theme polls, consistently over time and expect some of those variances to drop out. polling aggregators are useful. if you go on a site like the new 538, thereupshot or are still too sure into can look at the polls, determine whether they have been good or bad, what

kind of leaning they have an factor that in. realu look at a site like clear politics, you have a clear sense of where the public is, even if one poll might end up being an outlier. host: conservative media and the transformation of american politics is the book. when did we see the growth of conservative media? steadily over the 1950's and 1960's. it is always pretty small. it is something conservatives are attuned to, but does not have a ton of impact outside the conservative movement. they disappear historically. they are influential within the movement themselves. in the 1970's and 1980's they become more visible. with the comes not

first generation, but the second. , his programbaugh was national in 1988. when fox news launches, that is when you have a conservative media that is visual ball -- that is visual nationally. he creates a false memory for americans who look act and say conservative media started in 1988. that doesn't help understand why it was successful and popular. we need to understand conservatives had been doing this for a long time. were the average consumers and why do they stay with that type of media? isst: the average consumer conservative. the reason they stick with it is the cousin is not a particular program that is scratch and

itch. it is a worldview tied in with their politics, the idea that media that is not consciously conservative are biased towards liberalism. to get a real view of the world, you need to seek out conservative news sources, opinion sources. they are the ones who will tell you the truth. it means tof what be conservative in america today, to distrust mainstream media. is rush limbaugh the standardbearer there as far as modern radio is concerned? guest: he pioneers interactive talk radio format that becomes 1990's.ly popular in it is not until a decade later that you get his cohort, glenn beck, all of these folks, modeled after him, and create the broad conservative radio

universe we have today. host: al, good morning. caller: i have a question for you. on the nixonced tapes, one of the tapes, he pauses at the idea of a right-wing television network? on severalamatized youtube videos. i believe it is the first video. he uses only the tapes, the direct transcripts. next some posits it would be easier if we had our own tv criticismcause of the . i am not familiar with the tape.

what we do know is that idea, not necessarily right-wing, but pro-administration news. memo that is a gop news service that circulates , a media consultant for the nixon administration. not -- it never takes off. a few years later, something similar develops. an idea would culminate in fox news. it has been circulating in republican circles. bigr ailes index and were a

part of that because of their criticism of press coverage of republicans. that is an important origin story. and jeremy, you are next. caller: good morning. my question about conservative , ona issues are regarding this that you are speaking of -- --t: sam, up next, opal city oklahoma city, oklahoma. is, when youestion watch fox news, they are bragging that there ratings are the highest. and msnbc, are they not

speeding up the ratings that make them lower than fox news? i get tired of them saying we are the number one rated show. can you answer that? they are number one rated. there was a period when cnn was doing better. in the summer of 2001, they surpassed cnn. i think it is because they served different functions. cnn is not attempting to promote a worldview. msnbc did not have an identity until 2006. fox news was serving a different audience, one that was hungry for conservative news and

conservative opinion. , msnbc, cnn, their numbers pale in comparison to the network news by order of magnitude, 30 times less. are serving a smaller audience. fox news has a tremendous amount of political power. it takes their influence and magnifies it beyond their actual audience size. do you get a sense of -- because of the lawsuits against roger ailes? --st: people in fox you foxnews eu's talk about roger ailes. what the't certain network will look like without him. i do not think it is the lawsuits that are going to fox, so much as the

fragmenting of the conservative right wing audience. and possiblyitors like the trump news network, rightre coming at the wing politics from a different perspective. the blaze is glenn back. he iss a headlight saying thinking about -- a headline saying he is thinking about voting for hillary clinton. he is not. that was from breitbart. breitbart and glenn beck have been in a war for a long time. ofy took his denunciation donald trump and spun it to say he was voting for clinton. he'd does not endorse hillary clinton, he will not vote for hillary clinton.

he is not going to vote for clinton. that is the thing happening. if you are not voting for donald trump, you are supporting clinton. the influence on the donald trump campaign and what does it mean in the world of can serve it is media? bannon has been unofficially a campaign manager since last fall. influential from the start. it is important because bright part does not define itself as conservative. it is closely tied to -- and the fringe writes up -- any right supremacist anti-semitic rights, has its toehold in breitbart.

what is important, not only that you have conservative media in .he campaign confrontational style of conservative media. that it represents a different part of the right wing spectrum. he represents a different part of the american right. host: breitbart, does that make ties to the movement or is that perception? there are two things that lead us to say it is journalists impeding us.

a piece was written in march 2016. he bragged breitbart had become the voice. explicit, what he saw as the connection. host: martha, rankin, texas. you are an interesting speaker. i wanted to ask you, in 1986, the ftc removed a truth and reporting law. that was the year rush limbaugh started up. did that make a difference in right wing radio. question, do you

donald trump loses, do you think he will start his own channel? guest: i think the regulation you'd talked about was removed in 1980 seven. it had been a regulation in place since the late 1940's, early 1950's. it wasn't used very often. my research suggests it had a chilling effect. it affected the left and the right. conservatives had seen it for a very long time. when the doctrine gets repealed during the reagan administration, and opens the door for station owners to feel

comfortable picking up the rush limbaugh program, knowing they are not going to get wrapped by the government for being unbalanced. it has some affect. as far as the potential for i was trump's network, talking about the fragmenting of conservatism and the media world. along with breitbart tv, i think right-wingace for a nonconservative station. i don't think that was donald two -- intention. at the way donald trump is cultivating his base as opposed to trying to reach out to moderates. he is not trying to protect his brand outside his new political identity.

it creates an opening for him to do that. has a four year noncompete clause with fox news. involved, it he is has to be off the books. stephen bannon could help donald trump make that a reality. he seems to be setting up his campaign for a future like that. host: the coal is the author of the book. she has a piece in politico that looks at the relationship between can survey of media and. who is alex jones? guest: the voice of info wars. voice been a far fringed on the radio. it has not been explicitly part of the conservative movement because it is left motivated by conservative ideas and more motivated by conspiracy

theories. mores become much influential, in part because you have a presidential candidate open to conspiracy theories. info wars has attached itself to the trump campaign. ofa campaign full misinformation, and has created an environment right for someone like alex jones and info wars to gain more hold in the public consciousness. according to the hill may, demonic mr. obama were in nature and use the words smelled like sofer. -- smelled like sulfur. [video clip]

he said me and hillary are demons, said we smelled like sulfur. ain't that something? now, i mean, come on, people. work if youes not , andsay stuff like that apparently there are people who believe that stuff. they are listening to it constantly. leaders who are promoting that because what sopens then is we get is divided and people are so angry at each other then nothing gets done. guest: you can see the effectiveness of having someone

like alex jones closely tied to the donald trump campaign. talkingbama is not about things like trade policy or immigration policy. he is talking about this craziness that is happening. demons is not a political conversation. to be able to focus on something more important, the rhetoric has gotten off point and has he come destructive to the american political system. if you can set aside conspiracy. and the silliness of alex jones, he is a ridiculous figure. host: you would not put him equally with other members of the conservative media? guest: i would not.

host: jacksonville, florida, fran. caller: i want to make a point about talk radio. mongeringare fear bullies. i heard someone calling in and he was timid and a little bit on the line about who he was going to vote for. he said he did not want to vote for hillary and he could not bring himself to vote for donald trump. he said he may be he would vote for a third party and the host said i don't want to tell you who, but a vote for a third party is a vote for hillary. know whatst did not to do. it is 24/7, they are your mongers. they are trying -- they are fear mongers.

people torying to get buy into gas co-ops, freeze-dried food and ammunition. the second generation of conservative media is about entertainment as it is about politics. smoot, politics came first. im came outctivis of change. his start ont morning zoo radio. that is part of the craziness of his show. there is a mix of entertainment and politics that creates mixed incentives. it is not just about conservative ideas, but about entertaining callers.

they are playing an important political role, to bring in conservatives, bring in people who are curious about conservatism into a set of policy preferences and political choices. times when third parties played a big role. when we do have such a polarized system and when we have the conservative movement that is within the republican party, partisanship and voting for your become just as, important if not more important. that is what you see with the rejection of the third-party vote. host: helen, you're next. i am an educated, retired woman, who spends her time helping people.

i disagree with the comment you made that fox is for conservatives. i scan all channels, cnn, the. c-span, bbc, whatever. i want thenews and truth. you have to scan all of them to get the truth or at least what you think might be the truth. very happy and i am here as a person who was born in war-torn europe, my ukraine father whose parents died in the concentration camps. it is wonderful the united states can have these networks and let them have their opinion. the truth will always rain at

end.nd -- reign at the in is the wonderful facet about the united states that you can give your opinion. host: thank you. a wide range of voices that can be heard in american broadcasting and that is something that should be protected. we don't want the government to tell us which views need to be balanced and which ones are ok. to ising you are pointing the media environment has gotten muddied lately. there are so many voices that can be difficult to cut through and try to figure out what is real and what is not real and what you disagree with.

cocooningericans are themselves in media environments that replete back to them what they believe -- that repeat back to them what they believe, there are americans who try to figure out what is going on. whenomplication is that there are issues with actuality and those kinds of things, it can be challenging for the average person who does not have all their time consuming media and researching, to do all of the work. one of the things we need to do is held a media environment americans trust. that is something you can do through regulation, by journalist and citizens. the variety available is a good thing, but we need that her cues for how to be literate in this

new, crazy media environment. the number of progressive media outlets, how do they compare to that of conservative outlets? guest: they are different. conservatives would say there is conservative media and everyone else the progressive. if we are talking liberal or , we see theyutlets are smaller. influencey have less over democratic politics. ish of the reason for that , airhing like msnbc america, they were copying these conservative products without building the underlying justification. conservatives don't necessarily trust other news outlets.

liberals and progressives don't necessarily share the same suspicion of other news. they don't necessarily feel the need to make their news come from these openly progressive sources. i think that is why air america failed and nbc continues to struggle. you talked about generations. what is next? how does the internet and digital media play into this? or eight years ago, i thought the internet was not changing things, that for conservatives, they used the internet the same way they used talk radio. things are changing. we are seeing two related things. the fragmentation of the media environment and the fragmentation of conservatism.

related. the internet has opened up space breitbart tv,like one america. breitbart is not a publication. it is a web right. there is room to cultivate these different voices. when you have a free media possible foris not someone to come in and crush you. because it gives more diverse viewpoints and more room tond more diverse media sort of grow and begin to exercise their own political power. in order to understand the changes happening in the republican party, it is tied to these changes in the media. the book is the soldiers of the right, conservative media and the transformation of

american politics. thank you for your time. that is our program for today. another edition of washington journal comes her way tomorrow at 7:00. we will see you then. ♪ by america'seated television companies and brought to you as a public service by your cable or satellite provider. here is