looking like? what is the common ground? what will be two leaders talk about in the joint news conference? >> they may draw a line in the many different topics and challenges. the leaders share the same approach, meaning we do consider the globalization -- we do consider that globalization come on the part of leaders, requires great care. there are many opportunities ahead of us. does the prime minister have concerns that he will talk to the president about behind closed doors? >> yeah, the two leaders know each other very well. they have had many different meanings in different international forums. they know each other very well. what the prime minister will bring here is this -- i will not

say concerned, but a deep understanding that in order to tackle these challenges, our democracies have to build bridges and stay connected, because integration is the only way to harness this process. >> what do you think the italian people are hoping to get out of this visit for the country, further leader to come here? will they be watching? >> for sure. italians are excited. i ensure that when president obama and the first lady, together with the prime minister and his spouse, will be seen together at the white house, i think this will be a great image. sign of a strong bond, and our fellow italians will love it. >> mr. ambassador, thank you for

your time. appreciate i >> you can watch coverage of the state to did it with the italian prime minister tomorrow night at 6:30 p.m. eastern time. coming up shortly, live coverage of a conversation with the colombian ambassador talking about the peace talks in the farc.

here, theiting

conversation starting shortly with the colombian ambassador to the united states, giving an update on where things stand on peace talks and the farc rebel group after voters rejected a truce between the two. as we wait, here is a look at some of today's "washington journal." ceo of thedent and terrance group to talk about pulling leading up to the final weeks of the campaign. what is polling telling you these days? guest: i do this with the democratic pollsters, and it has , purely partisan, i would say bipartisan kind of nature to it. we keep each other honest in terms of what we are looking at. this shows much of what we're seeing out there. i think there is a lot of attention to jumps in the polls,

and most are within the margin. both candidates, as has been often said, are not the best candidates in the world. we look at their favorable/unfavorable here trump's favorable growing from -- they both have in stuck in this kind of range of over 50% unfavorable, which is historic in terms of presidential campaigns to have that. it holds the ballot within range. you will see some polls with a with donaldlary trump and the tape. but i think it will go back to the middle, if you will. we had 39% for trump, 47% for hillary. i think it will kind of settled six to about five or

points. the average and real clear politics this morning is her having a lead of 5.5 points. i think that is probably where the natural state of the race is going. host: so donald trump, when you initially did this in 2015, it was 43 percent, went down to 40%, went down to 39%. that is not a good sign weeks before election day. guest: you will see him working with a range. when you look at the ballot over the last four months, hillary -- trump has had a high of 40.8%, a low of 35.8%. of 44.9%,s had a high which is where she is on average now, and a low of 38.8%. so they both have a window where they have been bouncing around in. i think holes are being held down by their unfavorables.

with abouttarted off a 55% unfavorable rating. what has been growing as they strongly unfavorable. if you look at donald trump right now, his strongly unfavorable -- give me a second to get the site, 53%. hillary's strongly unfavorable is at 46%. negatives are very baked in. everyone gets excited about the blows back and forth. but the reality is the numbers are so baked in, it will limit how much she moves in terms of the race. you: in the sample, who are talking to, how many are you theing to, and when was last set of questions put up? thursday night, one of the things we saw in the poll was saturday, sunday, there was days. jump for two about 400 of the sample had her

a bit that's ahead by 10 points. the generic one jumped from three points down to 12 points down. by the end of the week, it was back to eight points. think -- sampling, and this is when you get into the public polls versus the political polls of the private polls. i think there has been a problem in recent years. we have seen it in 2012 in the presidential election. a lot of these public polls are based on what they think the electorate will be. that is not how we do political polls. we try to poll pretty wide. then we look at the evidence, -- age and education. we try not to make that decision on what the electorate is going to be a look at the internals. our guest is talking about

his latest poll and how it relates to the campaign. you asked folks about who they think is going to win the election. talk about why this election is important. >> as people come to the conclusion that hillary is going to win -- >> welcome. i am roger noriega. this is the american enterprise institute. you are very welcome. they are neighbors, as i told the ambassador. we welcome you all. let me say at the outset, if you will silence your cell phones, that will make disagreeable for all of us and less embarrassing

for you and case a babysitter calls or something. i am going to ask our distinguished guest to make some initial comments after i introduce him, and then we will throw it open to questions for hourbalance of our together. ambassador juan carlos pinzon bueno has been the colombian ambassador to the united states for 14 months. he previously was minister of defense for four years, where he led the armed forces in dealing severe blows to the operations in the structure of the farc and the criminal bands operating in the country. this resulted in improved security conditions throughout the country and the lowest homicide rate in 35 years. the armed forces equipment and training were modernized during his tenure and the welfare of the men and women in uniform and

their families have improved. he put in place a transformation plan that will lead the armed forces forward for the next two decades. what most people do not know is exporter ofa is an expertise in the security area, 60ing lent its expertise to different countries in how to deal with criminal organizations and drug trafficking. before serving, he was the chief of staff to president santos and vice minister of defense. he is a native of bogotá, colombia, and he has a degree in economics. he received a masters of public policy from princeton university's woodrow wilson school. he has completed advanced studies in international relations at johns hopkins in

science and technology and harvard. clearly, you are well-prepared for many tasks. we welcome you here today. ambassador, as i have said to you in the past, some of my most scriptable colombia friends -- colombian friends were rejoicing on the night of the results, and others were devastated, harshly criticizing the campaign and the popular vote. i felt somewhere in the middle, because i reconciled myself to the fact that the accords would probably be approved, and although iem deeply skeptical -- although i am skeptical about the farc's intentions, i saw the opportunity to hold the farc to concrete commitments and to immobilize thousands of guerrillas. weeks since the vote, you

have seen president santos meet with his predecessor. i heard that was for the first time in six years that they met. he has also met with one of his other predecessors, both of whom were part of the no campaign. last thursday, president uribe, on behalf of the camp, offered a 26-page critique that raised many concerns. it also presented some sort of was regarded as rather reasonable and practical. practical positions on a number of critical issues. this might be a function of the fact that, regardless of the results, student marches and have made itations clear that the colombian people are essentially committed to some sort of negotiated

permanent end to hostilities. as a result of the voting, president santos said down with dickinson spec to the negotiating table with the objective of improving the accord. maybe the narrow victory on en -- of the no and the of the no, in the end, will improve the process. in the words of the legendary political theorists pete gender, you make can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you might find you get what you need -- and mick jagger. do you feel more are less optimistic today than the night of the pledisite, and why?

amb. pinzon: first of all, thank you very much. it is a pleasure being here, especially this beautiful new venue you have here. the firsti am not here, but i'm happy to be one of the first commentators in this new venue. second, you have been inviting me to enterprise discussions for years, since i arrived. i said yes, and suddenly there was a big coincidence between my yes and the current juncture. so i am happy to be here and to have this opportunity to discuss . you always have been interested about colombia, and one of the things i learned to appreciate the most about washington is that we have many more friends than i knew. washington is full of friends of colombia, and there are many reasons for that.

from u.s. policy perspective has happened for colombia, and it is quite interesting. it has been a long-term sustained effort and has resulted in the most violent tontry in the hemisphere become now an expert on security , the country somehow finding a final way to peace, a transition to peace, if i can call it. that with the determination and commitment of the colombian people, our leaders. very important, u.s. support. u.s. sport came to colombia and allowed colombia to lead effective institutions.

security, i saw a lot of interest with justice and with development. in that package is what we know and colombia. in washington, a lot of people that there are a lot of contributors to what is happening in colombia. i see this as a positive element. to your comments and to your question, i think we are in the middle of a very interesting time in colombia. the first thing i would say and do is it is interesting to see the 'srength of colombia democracy. there are very few democracies in this part of the world that can handle such an event, such a political event, with intensity and commitment from all the sites and somehow be able to

have that as a result. second, i believe it is important to see the strength of colombian institutions. every process in the past years and colombia are absolutely framework and the separation of powers. the president has stressed and proposed ideas, but those have been discussed in congress and later on judged by our judicial system. i think that is really important. when you think about the results that president santos used is that his main objective was to keep institutional stability of the country. he opened the room for a political dialogue and a political discussion with every sector opposing to the

government proposal in the plebiscite. i think that is another interesting feature. the third element i believe is now part of our political discussion is somehow opportunity. these words have been expressed by president santos and by several bright experts. right, left, center, international leaders, colombian leaders. colombia is in front of an opportunity. we have been moving from, let's use ofacemaking with the some force. that is what we needed for a while. people can talk about several decades of work, but when the colombian state in the colombian people decide that we are going to confront the threat of crime, violence, and violation of human

wasts, hard to believe it 15, 16 years ago. very then, we became effective. farc is 30%, 35% of what they were in manpower, resources, and financial capabilities. same happened to the criminal somehowat inherited systems after the so-called paramilitary. colombiahat effort put in the position of precisely moving forward in an effort for peace from strength. the country has been building its discussions in its political process from strength. and that is why this has been the only time in which farc has agreed with the colombian state,

which was able to sign a political agreement. i think nobody can hesitate to call it anything different than a very complex political discussion. but for the first time ever, there was an agreement signed. on the other side, it is important to see that that is seenity described from the perspective that if we were doing peacemaking but the use of force in starting four a five years ago we start to transition to peace through a happened process, what as a consequence of the transitionwas the going to take some more time. nobody knows what that time is, but it is part of the process. that is the way i would see it.

of course, next face will be peace in colombia and the the consequence of the agreement. institutions. we have a strong democracy. we proved that. now we are in the middle of a political process towards an opportunity. and to see how that translates and how the colombian people something isnto specific. important about democracy, here in america or in colombia or in places where democracy is strong , things are not small by one single will. they are discussed. they are part of a process. and then the result into something that is definitive. i also believe that there are

features that happened after the plebiscite. president santos was recognized as the nobel prize winner for peace. that is in a prudent issue, an important international signal to colombian efforts into peace. i keep saying that any colombian should feel proud of this just because it was colombia, and in this case, the president of colombia who was granted that recognition. that has been a consequence of, you know, being effective with the use of force, defeating threats, and in consequence, moving to political tools, moving to diplomacy and making use of those tools to produce and result in agreement. that is what i think has been recognized. of course, we have to let the

experts describe how they got to that conclusion. but somehow that is what you can summarize. it is an important element in the current discussion. the other interesting element is the public political activity from different points of view and different perspectives. it is not only the natural leaders and the leadership of colombia internet political to the-- colombia and lyrical views, but it is giving opinions. an interesting thing that came out this week is the clear conclusion, clear if anyone had doubts that colombians were hoping and rooting for peace, but of course , what is in discussion is different approaches for that

result. i think that is another interesting element. that the factnk that it was announced very , and the conclusion to the recent events, the other guerrilla is starting a former public peace negotiations with the colombian government. theroves somehow that all elements required for long-term peace in colombia are now on the table. cease-fireet that was immediately requested in byommended, not only president santos, but it was requested by different opposition leaders.

it was somehow accepted and discussed even by the farc. for those expecting some kind of turbulence beyond the political elite, nothing as such is happening in the country, and what we have right now is a cease-fire that actually has formal elements coming out not only from a government to farc in the agreement but also by u.n. presence and u.n. mandate to continue it in the country. we are in sure, interesting times, and no doubt, we are extending our decision to peace. no doubt, there is an interesting and challenging lyrical process -- political process. we have democracy and strong institutions. the country continues to move forward. when you see what happened to the market -- to your dollar,

what happened? pesos, moved down 15, 20 pesos. frankly speaking, nothing substantial has been altered in the colombian economy and market. it is an interesting discussion on how to strengthen ,ompetitiveness in the economy and tax reform is now under discussion. we are in the process of finding how to keep moving forward, to attract investors, to attract jobs, to keep moving to the future. that is the way i would describe it, not to underestimate the challenges. but to value somehow the importance of what we have right now and the political realities right now. >> thank you very much for that ne-setter.e

amb. pinzon: so can i leave now? [laughter] get some way, can we water? do you have some? thank you very much, ambassador. let's talk a little bit about what has transpired recently. last thursday, president ribe put together this vision for a national peace accord. remarked upon is that he sort of pulled back on a couple of the central issues. i know there is a limit as to how you want to characterize he had but for example, insisted during the campaign, and many others in the no campaign, mated it at an important part of their position that -- made it an important theyof the position that

were getting away with murder, no incarceration, and some of this needed to be addressed. he introduced a concept of re-collusion. it was put forward and could mean some sort of confinement in general spaces come some -- general spaces. the other issue he has talked about is transitional justice. know,t case, he said, you commenting that we have to mobilize tens of thousands of people. we have even held people accountable in the past decade within the context of our judicial system, and we don't need to have this transitional ad hoc commission created with participation with foreigners. the president has also commented and went on at links with me a

number of months ago that we should be doing this in the context of our judicial system and not create this other entity. those are a couple of things he has brought up. and then on political participation, can the commanders of the farc, who are guilty or found guilty for ,erious human rights abuses enter the political realm? pull back to a position of having representation in the congress, but setting some limits about who among the farc might be able to participate. how do you see this conversation shaping up between the santos government and negotiators and those reflecting the will of the majority of people that voted on it? amb. pinzon: first, the issues

under discussion are very delicate and complex and relevant. those debates does not contribute in any way. here i see ayou, lot of colombian faces, and i can't promise every colombian has a personal -- i can promise every colombian has a personal opinion on each of these elements. the truth is president santos wants the plebiscite to happen and a round of discussions. you described those very well. somehow a negotiating table looking for an agreement. under that framework, the government has been taking every proposal, every idea, every up toendation and is now

this process to bring some kind isconclusions on what visible. i think those are the way things are being discussed right now. in that regard, i think president santos has expressed, both on his will, on the opportunity, kind of at the same time, mentioned several times they were realistic and as fast as possible. that is what has been coming out. from the opposition side, i would recognize in general terms everybody's will to move to some kind of agreement. being very honest and transparent, i believe we are in a time in colombia in which the best contribution someone can do, especially here from washington, is allow the discussion to move on, allow the

discussion to produce a result, putting more personal opinions into such a delicate issues. that will be the best possible conclusion for many colombians. allow this to be discussed in a way that there is some kind of compromise and agreement so that can be later on discussed with the farc and other groups and then move on to the next phase. asking people to withhold their opinions, you're going to put a lot of people out of work here in washington. [laughter] least they are here and will be hearing you and a couple other places this week thomas so they will be better informed. what is the farc's attitude about this opportunity? president santos spent a good deal of time saying that the guerrillas are not going to

negotiate prison. that is just one issue. do you think they will be back at the table? what is your sense from what they are saying? if president santos is aggregating some of these comments and ideas on how to move forward, it seems to suggest he will ask the farc to join them and meet at the negotiating table. thing weon: the only can judge is what has been said publicly, and what has been said publicly is that from their perspective, they are willing to keep the cease-fire. that is one point. second, they are willing to open round, and to new find steps. of course, some words are out of tone.

i insist we should not even hear those at this time, and we should focus on how to keep moving with the current opportunity. >> one more question and then i will throw it open. this is on the question on plan colombia and where we go from here. you know i was one of the architects from the staff level of plan colombia, and it was very for two it is because i moved from the house to the senate in the middle of the process, so i was one of the few people that a lot of people trusted. people do not necessarily understand that in the house, the enemy is not the republicans or the democrats, the senate is the enemy. so i got to see the come , this bipartisan coalition and commitment. it was a commitment to help an ally, south america's oldest democracy, defend its institutions and imposed the

rule of law. largely because of the truck phenomenon. and farc, which has now been identified as the biggest cocaine trafficking organization in the world, was shoveling cocaine into the united states and affecting the health and well-being of the american people. $10 billion later, in the last several years, we have seen coke cultivation increasing by at back 50%, and some pulling in the context of these negotiations from the offensives against the farc, pulling back on extradition to it for the first time in a decade or so, colombia has refused to extradite someone to the united states because he also happens to be a farc commander, and a rivers on aerial fumigation,

which is one of the reasons that the cultivation has decreased. if you are sitting in congress representing the american taxpayer, what case do you make for an additional half $1 billion in assistance and even a longer-term commitment to colombia going forward? amb. pinzon: thank you for that question. i believe that is a very important and relevant question for the time. first, i think what we have done in colombia, it has worked ,ffectively for several years was building, what we did for a lot of time. you can criticize and have different opinions on farc and , butgenda and strategy those of us who have been working on this for a long time, we find this as a tool to use with results.

the result was the complete turnaround of colombia, from a feeling nation to a vibrant democracy, active economy, and a country with a democratic agenda to the future. that is what happened to colombia. many others in washington feel proud of that. ,rom the colombian perspective we have increased investment. the economy has grown. it is a strong base of security indicators. , from the end of , theyear around this time importance of the understanding that we were going to enter into a new phase. the use of force was not now the only thing we were going to do,

but in the country, we were going to focus on a transition to peace. finding real, effective he's building efforts -- peace building efforts. that is how it began. the state department, national security council, department of defense, president obama himself and president santos, and no congress have concluded that colombia needed a new package to make peace sustainable in the and to make sure these gains become permanent. those are important to colombians and to the united states. ae fact that colombia can be country that can promote democracy, freedom, markets in the western hemisphere is not only important for colombians but somehow is important for our set of values. we look at colombia continuing to export, security, standards

to other countries in latin america is not only imported for colombia, it is important for the united states as a whole. i think that sort of explains we, actually, in the house, have an approval of 500 $50 million, and in the senate, $450 million. that. to get it is up to congress and up to the political process and budget, and we have to understand, given that this is , it is not ther want to discuss. in that perspective, we believe it is very important in the toths in the years to come get those resources, to get the resources to make this piece sustainable -- to make this peace sustainable, things like

offering programs related to humanitarian efforts, on mining, on taking care of victims, moving on to all these processes that are related to the transition to peace. of course, there are other elements that are important like strengthening the justice system, just like it will be extremely important in the years to come to decide to make that and keepingnable the capability to confront organized crime from trafficking, illegal mining, human trafficking, or all sorts of crime that are not going to disappear. they will be there, and they will be things we need to confront. it is not only important for colombians. as much as we contain -- crime in colombia is not only good for colombia, but it is good for central america, caribbean, mexico, the united states.

trafficking and your question and concern, during my tenure as minister of defense, had the fortune to see wonderfultify the successes of our armed forces. 2013, we had the lowest numbers of hector's of colombia.e history of so that was great, very good news. increase, byan different reasons. we have learned that the threats are not static. they are dynamic. to use tools.how they learn how to somehow take advantage or deny powerful capabilities, and suddenly, they

use communities and present them and start to create different success. to limit that last year, members of the crops, whatth those has been the colombian reaction? we want to confront that. president santos himself has said, i want to produce results and am committed to it. of course, he is trying to find new tools. out of the peace agreement, his vision is that having farc out of drug dealing and with the of not being a part of the business, that will have long-term consequences to reduce that effect.

second, more aggressive effort on alternative development, because we know it works. alternative development has worked very well. in the central part of the country, or you have roads and technical assistance, we have been able to reduce coca, images zero. ina areas that are marginal and , the drug comes back, and you reduce it, and set only it can grow again. has the potential. that is what we learned. post-conflict, we are in a process of developing and executing an integrated strategy towards that end. and there are very important efforts to do two things, one, there are new studies that are

under trial, like manual fumigation, spraying to it we do not know if that will work effectively or not, but we are always evolving, looking for new tools are new challenges or new ways to confront this. and finally, colombia, and the seizing mores, is cocaine than ever. anyone can say there is more production, no doubt, but at the same time, a lot of it is not getting into the market. that is a way to contain these efforts. under my watch, probably last may operation we launched was an active action against the theinal bands, especially group with three or four names, a very large curtail that has

then heavily hit the past year and a half, two years. the consequence is that is limiting the potential of that drug to have a major impact into the market. anyone int satisfy the sense that we need to see how we can produce more results and keep moving forward into this. but i will underline the will of the colombian government to continue to confront this know the consequences of not moving onto this and not continue to be dynamic. thelly, i would say that worst mistake after the experience in colombia is not to support the efforts to confront the challenges.

of course, i think we are open to the dialogue of how to do better, how to improve one technique or to have a new one. i think that is a discussion. that this is where you tell me, make the case to congress, keep pushing for this. we need to make this sustainable . the most important objective. even if it takes longer, we need to make peace sustainable. and we need to keep the edge on confronting organized crime, whatever face it prisons. >> excellent it we are going to take some questions from the audience. raise your hand. in theack, thererewoan up. e di wl inyo miopne the trucyose. gd mni. tt esen

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ms. dowd: it gets more important as i get older, funny enough. when i was small, my dad would make us recite irish poetry into one of the old initial tape recorders. my brother's name is kevin barry, so he would have to em and ihe irish polle would have to recite things, you know, at the time, a lot of it seemed kind of corny but as you get older, and now the nation is obsessed with ancestry and of finding out things, as you get older, you realize it is really nice to know everything about your roots and to have a warm feeling that ancestry can give you.

mr. lamb: that is something that you wrote about in your book. you have some fresh stuff and we will talk about that. here's something you write about and i want you to explain this portrait to the audience. [laughter] ms. dowd: right. that was such a weird story. so what was the guy's name, nelson sparks? mr. lamb: nelson shanks. ms. dowd: yes, he recently died. he was given a commission to do artificial portrait of bill clinton, and for his own reasons, very oddly he had in his studio he had a mannequin and a blue dress, just randomly and he put the blue dress on the mannequin and painted the shadow of that into the picture. bill clinton often does not have on a wedding ring, which is weird, so than when they found out i do not think they wanted , to put the painting up, not the clintons, but it was at a museum. it is in storage.

he was trying to investigate whether it was in storage because he had played this spectral trick where he had a to the bluelusion dress. there is a history of that kind of thing in arts, but i think when you get a commission to paint a president, that president definitely does not want an allusion to his white house sex scandal in there. mr. lamb: i saw that painting at the portrait gallery, and the first thing i thought of was not -- i had no idea there was a blue dress image on there, according to the artist, it is the shoes. the president of the united states gets his shoes shined, and those are the ugliest shoes in the world. ms. dowd: i know, it was very strange that he did that. it was up for a while and then they took it down. he suspected the clintons asked them to take it down but he

never proved it you know? , you know, i think it would have a right thing to do, such an odd thing to do in an official portrait. mr. lamb: in your opinion, what are the chances he will become the first spouse january 20? ms. dowd: i would say at the rate we are going in the last hour, probably 100%. that is when you go to hollywood, that is the story line all of the clinton donors are really excited about. there was an old fred mcmurray movie called "kisses for my president" where she was the first woman president and he was the first lad, but hollywood has not seen anything like that. when they got sarah palin, they got so excited because it opened up their imagination to have a beautiful, sexy young woman in the role of dick cheney, something that had usually been old gray-haired men. that is where you get things like "veep" and other things and

it never occurred to them, wow, we could have a babe in this role. in the same way, they love the role of bill clinton. he says he wants to be called first laddy. chelsea said because of his irish roots, but that is more scottish. the funny thing, hillary might let him do the economy and let chelsea do the hostessing and hillary would keep picking out the china. but she really should not do that. she should let bill do the traditional things first ladies have to do because it would be a great way to show how antiquated the job is because hillary hated it and michelle has done it beautifully, but it is kind of a white satin jail for a woman like hillary and michelle that have the same educational credentials as their husbands. i think if you saw bill clinton doing it, you would realize maybe we need to modernize the job. mr. lamb: you have a column in

your book from march 6, 2016 and it starts out, "here is why the trump campaign is wicked fun." do you remember what you said? ms. dowd: yes, that lasted for about five minutes. well, the second part was "just wicked." the wicked fun was seeing the political applecart of leeches, the political consultants that make millions of dollars giving candidates bad advice and who spend jeb spent $170 million in , negative ads and donald trump was doing his own instagram ads. and making them up himself. it was just fun to see that kind kind of leech society turned over and to have a more direct connection between the candidate

and the voters. that did not last long because then, you know there were all these things about bigotry and racism and misogyny, which kind of took over the fun populous part. mr. lamb: 21 years of writing your column? ms. dowd: wow. i don't like to think about that. it has been since 1995. mr. lamb: so, 21 years. am i counting right? you only do one week now. ms. dowd: i do one a week and i work half-time time at our sunday magazine for jake silverstein. mr. lamb: how do you know the column has hit a nerve? ms. dowd: well, you know, we have comments, which i never read but you can see them. i can see the number of comments, and you know, we, you can tell on twitter and where it has been picked up if it is

mentioned on cable news and stuff. mr. lamb: is there someone that calls you on the sunday morning and says, you got them this time? ms. dowd: you know, i have friends that do that. they will read it. it comes out saturday afternoon, basically, so i have friends that read it saturday afternoon and you can tell if you hear from them or you do not what they thought. mr. lamb: what is the best thing they can say to you? ms. dowd: just that they enjoyed it, that they thought i did a good job. mr. lamb: this is one from february of 2015. i will pay for this column, you write, the rottweilers will be unleashed. once the clintons had a war room and now they have a slime room. once they had the sly james carville fondly known a serpent head and now they have a slippery david brock accurately known as a snake. we have video we are going to show eventually of david brock before and after.

ms. dowd: right. mr. lamb: why did you call him a snake? ms. dowd: this is something that really concerns me about the coming clinton administration because she does have this idealistic public service side, but then she also over the decades has developed a kind of, a different side where she often makes decisions from a darker place, of fear and insecurity. her secretiveness and defensiveness trips up the public service side. to that end, she has surrounded herself with a lot of henchmen who will slime people who are even saying accurate things about the clintons. i think that speaks to this paranoid side that she has. they are going to come with her

in one way or another, either outside the white house or in the white house, and you know, it just worries me because i wish she could have the confidence to throw off that kind of person. and i interviewed bernie sanders , and he was really concerned about that because david brock had been attacking him on his age in these sleazy ways in the primary, and he does not understand why she needs to have this sort of person around her, but in my experience, people tend to get more paranoid in the white house at the very moment that the whole country affirms them, and they should feel confident. often, their gremlins and insecurities come out, when they get to the top, which seems counterintuitive but it is pretty common. mr. lamb: this is video from

1993 and 2015 of david brock. you can see him when he worked for the american spectator in the clinton project. it was funded by richard mellon scaife. you can see him now as he raises money for hillary clinton and runs the other side. he has switched complete sites. take a look at this. [video clip] >> larry patterson quotes that at thecommon knowledge governor's residence that mrs. clinton and vince foster were intimately involved when governor clinton would leave town. shortly thereafter, vince foster would regularly show up at the mansion and stay through the hours of the night with mrs. clinton. they were often driven out to a retreat that the rose law firm kept a cabin outside of little rock where they spent extensive time together. much to my own surprise and certainly to my professional detriment, i wrote about a woman with a steadfast commitment to public service, a lifelong passion for children and family and a deep well of personal

integrity. mr. lamb: how does this happen? ms. dowd: i do not know. it was his work on the state troopers in arkansas that lead to impeachment, right? with paula jones and everything? the irony to me is he was the main kind of attack dog smearing anita hill and bill clinton called him because he liked his book "blinded by the light." he had kind of a conversion on the road to damascus. and they sort of brought him in. the clintons turned him around and he now runs one of the media kind of conglomerate that defends her and goes after people who even write accurate things about her.

the irony is, he was smearing anita hill and now he is part of the clinton team and the clinton team, sidney blumenthal and charlie rangel were kind of smearing monica as a little naughty and a little slutty. that is a very interesting kind of arc right there. mr. lamb: you have to explain this. this is a picture of you. you can tell us where this came from. ms. dowd: yes, with sidney blumenthal. we just happened to be standing in line. i was not with anyone and he was in line in front of me, so they took this together. it was funny because bill has an allergy, a lot of allergies and he has an allergy with trees so they always photoshop the christmas tree in afterwards. bill and i both have on ties.

mr. lamb: how long ago was that? ms. dowd: that was probably the beginning of the clinton administration. i am in my annie hall look. i feel sorry for presidents for the media christmas party because they have to stand there and pose with all of the reporters that they are probably seething about. i do not think it is a very pleasant evening for them. mr. lamb: it is a constant theme in the last two years about sidney blumenthal. how does he fit in the story? ms. dowd: donald trump keeps trying to bring him up in the debate and rallies and no one knows who he is. unless, i mean, people in washington do but none of these people at the trump rallies. it is so funny to see donald trump trying to make that stick. it is a rare case where trump is right that sidney blumenthal was one of the ones who, you know, was smearing people and, what is

the issue he came up in most recently? mr. lamb: i know exactly what you are talking about. ms. dowd: the birther thing where hillary -- you know, he was trying to say hillary actually started the birther thing and it turns out that sidney blumenthal went to a reporter to suggest they send a reporter to kenya to check out and see if obama was really born in kenya. you know, as always with donald trump, there can be a kernel of truth in what he is saying. that does not excuse his absurd and offensive birther campaign, but there were hillary people calling reporters and trying to suggest the same thing. mr. lamb: here is more video,

this time you write about dick morris who worked for bill clinton and now works for the other side and has a bestseller from the right side of things. here he is. it kind of goes back to what you said in the first place about watching this town and what it is all about. here is 1998 and 2016. this is the same man. [video clip] >> the democrats do not want the abortion debate to be resolved. they do not want to gun control to be passed. they do not want the environmental problems to be solved because they are too good for getting votes. essentially, what he decided to do was take each of the problems we faced as a society and in a very workmanlike way, and almost nonpartisan way, bring them to a solution and salt -- solve them. i think he succeeded overwhelmingly. now, corruption and money making

is the be-all and end all. they have gone from a romance in the 1970's and 1980's to a partnership in the 1990's to a racketeering organization today where bill's job is to pass the bag and hillary's job is to offer access and favors to those who put money inside. ms. dowd: wow. you know toe sucking by a call , girl seems so quaint anymore. at the time, that was a crazy sex scandal when morris was caught doing that. now we have all kinds of vulgarities and crudeties in the race. mr. lamb: how about what we are seeing has anything to do with the american people's attitude toward this town. ms. dowd: i think these are extreme cases, but that is what is disturbing about the clintons because they will hire anyone

who can help them win. i was at the convention where the story broke about the toe sucking and he had to resign. i think hillary helped bring him back in. you know, he was very, i think that was part of their kind of dlc conservative streak they brought to democratic politics. mr. lamb: the toe sucking story at the jefferson hotel in washington -- was he with a call girl? ms. dowd: talking on the phone to clinton and congressman and stuff. mr. lamb: where are you on the cynic, skeptic scale? ms. dowd: i think a lot of people think journalists are cynics but we are idealists. i am definitely not cynical, maybe you get a little jaded if

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otin01anor en feel burned heasika zz-dzl trleth tneoutoe dippntg viwi direoxffe. msdo: thk t craze 2008,ark aman chleyokn, ldba as, i remember michelle saying, this is not about politics, this is about our souls, more than politics, it was something cleaner, finer, fresher and people thought they were turning. and in hollywood, that was ground zero of people who were betraying the clinton machine when i did the interview with david geffen. i think that people in hollywood who changed sides and went with obama against the clinton machine did not think eight years later, obama would put out the red carpet for the clinton machine.

because now all of these people are going to be pariahs, anyone who left the clintons before for obama. mr. lamb: why does president obama working so hard for mrs. clinton? ms. dowd: well, the first african american president does not want his legacy erased by the most overtly racist candidate in modern times, certainly. and michelle, too, and she is an amazing campaigner. i think that is about his legacy more than about the clintons, although, hillary is his hand-picked choice. he pushed biden aside for her. mr. lamb: you wrote in february, 2016, lyndon johnson said the two things that make politicians more stupid than anything else are sex and envy. with hillary there are three

things -- sex, money, and the need for secrecy. ms. dowd: yes, it is so weird that this campaign is like the revenge of the 1990's. both candidates are kind of good -- greed is good candidates in a weird way and all of these figures from the 1990's like newt gingrich and rudy giuliani are back. i don't -- i recently reread all of the biographies of hillary in on my own. i started out covering her in 1992, very supportively. i was surprised when i went back and read it when she was running as bill's wife and on health care. i was very supportive even as a news reporter. but somewhere along the way, maybe when she got to arkansas and the marriage was rocky and she thought she might have to support the family, maybe it is one of these things where you think, i am doing public

service, but i think i should get what i would've gotten if i had gone into the private sector. but somewhere along the way, she did get this fixation on money, which it is weird because they made so many hundreds of millions. even if they spent a bunch every day, they could never spend it, so why on earth, and if she is going to be president and he is going to be the first first lad, they will get $20 million each to do memoirs. so why would you go goldman sachs and make the speeches? their tin cup should be in the smithsonian. mr. lamb: in that same speech, same column, you wrote about the portrait. you also bring up the fact that michael smith of "the times" was

the one that started the email story. the reason i bring it up and i ask you about it, if you listen to right wing talk show host, they are constantly exposing the new york times of being in hillary's camp. why? ms. dowd: he is a brilliant reporter. he is like a throwback to a 1930's reporter where he is a real investigative reporter. and he broke a lot of the steroid stories in baseball and then he came to washington and broke this story. the clinton people can say all they want that it is a tempest in a teapot. but what she did was really, really reckless in so many ways, and that is what worries me, the paranoia that caused her to make that kind of reckless decision. it is sort of unfathomable. one thing i do not like about the clintons is when they get into trouble and donald trump

does this, when they get in trouble, they try to blame someone else. when bill got in trouble with monica, the white house aides would call around and say thomas jefferson had a mistress, dead presidents they are dragging in, right? and jfk had a mistress. and you're like, fine, why do you not just confess what you did? bill clinton would never admit it. he would drag everyone in to say, he was telling the truth and his wife would try to savage the girlfriends. and then years later, he would kind of admit it. so it is just a very unhealthy -- and then on the emails, hillary said colin powell did it. but the state of the internet had changed profoundly and new rules had been put in place, so do not drag poor colin powell into it. it is just not comparable.

mr. lamb: which one of these candidacies, prime candidates, mr. trump, mrs. clinton would be , the best for columnist maureen dowd? ms. dowd: well, obviously, you are right that journalists have a citizen side and not a journalist side often with conflict. and our chief washington correspondent has a saying bad , for the country, good for carl. that is a kind of weird thing to explain to people outside of the business. but obviously, donald trump would be better for journalism because it would be utter freaking chaos around the world. but then as a citizen, you have a contrary opinion. mr. lamb: i notice when you write, you drop in many references to shakespeare. you studied shakespeare at

catholic university. you drop in french all of the time, and as someone who does not speak french -- ms. dowd: i do not speak it either. mr. lamb: this is not just french. these are maureen dowd's words you use in your columns. do you realize how many of us have no idea what you are talking about when you drop these in? ms. dowd: that does not bother me at all because i think words are so much fun, and i do not do it to be pretentious, i do it because i want people to have different words and to learn words and, you know, i took latin all through school, and played scrabble all through ho, d thk ostw thgseay lp ma t thy vocala. ju tnkt rllfuto opn n rd d ft, jt d a comn

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beusth ihoherefers it heoe'wa tsido a ha dcuio authe su bau, y kw,e e't al kw abouth su. bacay,e de -evy da hge h pssecta toivhithto30ies abt msf d ene ad the. sot'th cstt ceuo amifatn h o pso d blit , ah . mbi' g se de ate un i's yrsld kn y le telesi. . wd[lghr] onlyityo ban mr. mbsu. kn y le lesi. soe's meelisn u y t vevese. isoeba -i's oua nu a aal isir o gs cko ptbe1320. yowi s se op ihe yokn, clinyo ceedroericel

msdo: ts e sp okar? ohwo id cp] erye ss we lk st ke >>eteg dd t alrit,llig! iss eralthbrns mero ghhe. ts msier e al wts tme y. i am urigstan [iisrnle >>r.utm llill mehe -- >>y otr s pa bor i ca aawr. iord t sat budi. eler ml a t ofces. you reol iyogonto

senar hnend's fi d hpe tbehe, nota thi dootvelo ahi n s 's ni d, r. ke yr adow avt urye y sdnyini's ni , y,s't , nar? ndceib] onheth hd,ic pridt chd xowaon t nespele er t. . mbyo bk s t me a tt'yo bth, who di i20? anmowainhe. shdi i20. yowre loabt emn th bk. atbo yr otr chl? atbo yr m? . wdi s pecle em myadas1 en w bn. chl s yrsld tn wa kd hperae me.

heasooe fo treas og. headn sote cyopicemy. heas theosvocis ad ha er ow anju ariia g. d w o othon w wod t d mwh ias cori winofarlybo thir w. anwh iou gho f thksvi, wldayyo kn, treas hrine u ulble ow. anth treas katnand di [lghr] th was aite t aen ti ioufaly i otabt me ghy e lu, t 'ha t-- is ha wn atouo nfctwi h wl u nt g angityo fil mrla: how oumo w d s e enheie . wdshe isy sote ol e s . asouaneestl rgeous shlod m sst. he wouldalheevy th'

da anshwawoerl. shwacolelyitat e ulte m s wldo oaril rdis oar l's rkve iereste beusjaieendy was the. shhaa t sri aut poti, o. bubacay,heashe epomofhayowa ia th, t son eran shwave fr. ana ryovg rs a ryma a vy trti e ulgeve aryt if d n wr d,hi, d uen ly. aute mrla: veidinudg yoinheamily. here iso me omhis. have meorfr ts rt

l's . id cp] im c'upn sp. ifhearstlisni ts isy ctor. w hpeyothug- w dgnede t ttma th w triin , gh, tug ias gog fnt leern id, aryook ats ate s yi wn e diceaslain ani idnoi'nook anheai o s dn. ene ietoalmeowby teinmebo gng yfhi, f r,ryg ca mdo bsange ug a acinonnaecse brawadnehe. sd, wt shg thom ok. aute atashemata tt s

pposedoalmeow e,ow c'geoftv eyolw eryer sa 'm mote t f . mote auter] . wdthfuy inwa beusi'sohynd trerted d cae on otvs y kw,f blishehaa n mhe. filwastneth ias wiintoe c'upor ok par. ataso out mnare buits sp. lo cpa i ul'dot r yo se . mbdiyowah ? . wdno i veha t nveo ad or wat athg oumylf t u ss, therwaa hiris enwhe tim brlewastfi h fe wi hs'oereathe tae. [lghr] mrla: ' n de. [lghr] . wditasomety t craer diki olo ibeusi

look aalthe ople w a ea kd lgeth-le pelen le,utlsin shgt hto, keen ady d m sst d isuno veheonap . mbthnas ming u reouilse ms. do: t ipntidhe rtn r shor. hes brlit lica rtni w wkewi m iauraan cpas wk pital caoo. heaywh wdoor lin istiinupheea. . mb: yoha cis ttwsbi pnt j ls, lee am jy odrdalun bl es say in gl lls a thti, woulshha bn yo bs,aicoin

msdowd: yb torof pti, icis whnoneilco tmyar anymor iju tinte evyo. u owevyo fm eltriatoy sso ce pridt deanth s w ows up . mbth i12ea a. henas u're gngo e, ra enu, w e yoof chag eris g wh t-iron d rmas y remr o atas . wdprobab m ecicn. th was fnyecsela eepaatn aurapay i d enark amgo electein00 ce tme ryispriny d id, is is ta part itaso crowd. h nereeto pty keha mrla: u' g twah e d anresp a b brle msdo: .

[veoli >> a y in lo? n b im etg loof w op. he u e. , gh. evyo iasngorou t psints mi a mite [lghr] >> c'geoftv >>usisomg. ree me ocose did. sayoonlloulile ow u rere. h a y? yolo butul >>ou loowoerl. mtleoe wre out iny colu. te o. sp is here. sp pty obelff l e op fr "e me" wa tsa hohay a tt it'be

soonrf bau iis everytnghamaee sees >>-sn lvi a n w careallyetowtoheea pay. [lghr] . wd: th isoun. e y bmus arid mbrothe fm buan mala w ce on i ink ifounlha o ki opeont urarty, e's erg u' g tki omiitp. mr. mbdooueay rr about op from r ayro reayg,hearju o ofouch, athoro i t tchitamic msdo: lli n'ju thk ngg t d vi ho 'oeremeans u e t ofou. it's nnbeusa t my

ll cumstha bn gog tseoatrs. th dvecrs uny or eyututpeleer seinto meea umvor. 'm wa pki uthpar d eing tm ivg roh ntkyndryg fd umvor. medylsdianpe tt, ea, umvor, co a l mreonityo i ulli tme o o the ot catesli a maar md thpogil peti. [lghr] anall i ve to igoom i tcd e ba wh sierndheolmehyru peuad r atheig vo f h ain e d bther he sa t bk. doothi omylfs itt. i el liki dp -i t thheluanthe re atopio pttfreely