[captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] ♪ vances week, j.d. discusses his book, "hillbilly elegy." idea,did you have any when you wrote the book, that it would be a bestseller? guest: i did not expected it to have the response it did. host: what do you think caused it? guest: the weird nature of the

peoplen has had considering working class voters who are supporting trump who are making waves in the election. on an area a light of the country that people did not know a whole lot about. hopefully, i have shown what people are like in this region. host: where were you born? middletowns born in , ohio. i spent a lot of time in kentucky. my grandparents, who i grew up were or appellation di -- diaspora.

it is a small town. 40% poverty rate. thispioid epidemic has hit area hard. jobs.s the coal it is a tough area to grow up in. supposed to be the economic savior. in a lot of ways, it was. if provided my grandparents -- it provided my grandparents a good wafge, but a lot of the problems persisted from jackson. homelessness, joblessness is common. in ohio, people can still find decent jobs. the poverty and unemployment rate is not quite as high.

there are a lot of the social ills in southern ohio that do not look that different from jackson. in bothe there hills places? guest: yes, but they are bigger in jackson. middletown is in a plateau. if you have ever been to illy,nnati, it is very h almost mountainous, but not like kentucky and tennessee. what made you leave? 2003 to join in the military. i was in the marines. this was right after we invaded iraq. enlisted inin a --

april of 2003. the war was the engine that brought me out of where i grew up. i never lived there for more than a few months at a time. host: what years were you in the marines? 2003-2007. i went to ohio state for a couple of years. i majored in philosophy. yale fromhy 2010-2013. i couldn't start and the next law school term had already started. a chunk of time where i stayed with my aunt and uncle. host: when did you go to san

francisco? guest: 1.5 years ago. host: what area of law are you in? an investor in san francisco and i practiced law in boston. did a lot of regulatory work in washington, d.c. and i left for the technology world in san francisco. i ran a company -- san francisco. iran a company for a short time. a company for a time. host: when did you get married? guest: pla2014. host: any kids? guest: no. host: has your mother read the book? guest: she has. it is tough. it is not the most flattering. it is the sort of thing that,

when i talked about it for the first time, it was a few weeks ago that we really talked about the book and what was in it and the story that it told. it was one of the best conversations i had with my mom and 15 years. -- in 15 years. it is hard for my mom to recognize the way her life affected me and my sisters. you think a lot of these things are your fault and i hope i do an ok job of showing that this generational context. .his was not all mom's fault in some ways, this was an inheritance of the family. host: how much did alcohol play a role in your mom's life?

guest: or dad was an alcoholic. dad was an alcoholic who quit drinking when i was born. i thought of him as an almost perfect guy, never having a temper. drunk.was a mean it was interesting to compare to the opinion i had. drugs was a big part of mom's life. got aike a lot of people, taste for prescription narcotics. it dominated our lives and affected our lives in a lot of different ways. she has gotten it under control and things are going pretty well right now. it is a story that is too common, where drugs move in and mess up the families.

host: what is the story where she tried to commit suicide? lost her job. that was when she started using drugs. were living in a rural part of the state, as her marriage was falling apart, and we were moving to middletown. she crashed a car into a telephone pole. she went to the hospital. you know, she tried to commit suicide. it was hard for me to hear, as her son. you always wonder, "what could i have done differently?" manwonder that as a grown or as a kid. what couldwonder

make things a little bit better? -- better. host: how old are you? guest: 32. host: how old is your mother? guest: 55. host: who was bob? guest: a stepfather i had. my mother's third husband. he was and is my legal father. decided heal father would give me up for adoption for complicated reasons. he and i are close now and we have reconnected. bob became my legal father and i took his name. i became himmel. that is not my name anymore.

like a lot of the men we were exposed to, he did not stick around. he did not become my dad. he was a guy in the picture and he left. ?ost: who was chip stayeda boyfriend my mom with for a while and he was a reasonable guy. he was the sort of classic police officer, with a lot of the attitudes that were common. he had some connection to the south, because of his mannerisms and the way he conducted himself. he drank a lot. he wasn't abusive to me. they would come in and they would go out. it was not that they were bad guys. they were just not people you can depend upon and that was the lesson we grew up on.

you could not really depend on these guys. host: who was steve? after chip. came he was a nice guy. we wanted mom to marry steve, but after a year, he was gone. host: who was matt? guest: my favorite. cared a good human being, a lot about me and my sister. at the worst part of our lives, matt tookas in rehab, care of us, checking in on us, making sure we had food to eat, making sure we want to school, when there was not an adult presence in our life. contact.i kept in we're still pretty close and he

is doing well. host: ken? intereand interesting -- sting story. maybe that isn't the right word. one day, mom told me she was getting married. i thought she was getting but it was matt, ken. i learned she had started a relationship with him and we would be moving in. i was moved from matt's house. again, was just one of these people who would come into our lives and go. host: how many times did your mom get married? guest: five times over the

course of her life. host: is she married? guest: good question. i believe the answer is no. host: what does she do? guest: she takes care of the elderly. -- works in various basically a home health nurse. it is good for her. she is clean and she is working hard. maw?: who was me- guest: she was my mother's mother. bigs pretty common in these eastern kentucky families. than a lotas broader of people and she made sure i had a safe and stable home when my mother could not provided, making sure i had exposure to the life lessons and the people i needed to have exposure to to

make sure i did not fall through the cracks. toting, had 19 storm.s, cussed up a she was a powerful and perceptive figure that made sure that i had the exposure to the things that i needed to ignore to have a good life. host: pa-paw? guest: her husband. because of his drinking, they were separated, but never got divorced. they just did not believe in that. we went through the revolving but of maternal partners, he was the one man we could rely on and the best father anybody could ask for. he played that role in our lives and he would fix up a car,

provide us extra spending money, that was his role. he stood in for the father that my sister and i did not have. gruff old guythis from eastern kentucky. he didn't fit in in ohio. he was just a great guy. >> what is mountain dew mouth? that people give to the dental problems that happen when you have too much sugary soda. it is not something that people and peoplek about are unfairly stereotyped for having terrible teeth. it is true that, among poor families, kids have dental problems because they are given sugary soda before they should

be.when pepsi was put into my bottle and grandma said, get that out, it showed that a lot of us didn't know. there were premature dental problems. it's not that the people who put the pepsi in my bottle were bad people, they just did not know. my grandma did. host: what is a hillbilly? what is an elegy? guest: a hillbilly is somebody who has a connection to appalachia. you either have family or a region.kinship to the it is a pejorative. if somebody used it outside of the family, i would be offended.

will use it as a term of endearment. -- we use it as a term of endearment. an elegy is a sad song or column. oem.r p in some ways, this is the sad story of people who have come from appalachia. is the story of them when they were 15-20 and it has not panned out. their family has a love the problems they had hoped they would not have when they escaped from eastern kentucky. host: who named the book? guest: a combination of me and my publisher. not something i was particularly attached to, at first. usey is not a word i would

growing up. the more i thought about what it story of really is the my family, these hillbillies, and the sadness that characterize their lives. host: you said there was something missing. you are not getting what is in this book because of? there is language that would remove the bark from the tree. there is a lot of car full language and other cuss words. -- of colorful language and other cuss words. someone once told me that my ma-maw had the mouth of a sailor, only worse. host: what do you think they

would think if they read the book? guest: i think they would love the book. i tried to write a book they maw wase proud of and ma- open about the problems. she was veryin, perceptive and recognize that people did not like to talk about these problems, thinking open up do not want to family history or talk about these problems. you had tozed that talk about these problems in order to really understand them and try to fix them. the people who come up to me and pa-paw werema-maw, heroes, that is what i want to show people. you need a lot of people to play role in your life, in

order to have a chance. this is the story of how they impacted my lives. host: where is your sister? guest: in ohio. host: married? guest: yes. statisticsaped the that say that we should not be able to live a happy life and have an intact family or a decent and steady job. we have done that in our own ways. host: no amount of self-control can withstand a -- host: what is that about? family honor and family loyalty are really important, when you grow up like this.

kid and do not have a lot to hang your hat on. insultsold to never let to your family or mother go unpunished. it is important to defend the family honor and that you are part of the family story. insults,ults are mild the sorts of things that, in a corporate boardroom or in a 21st-century marriage, it doesn't make sense to respond to these insults with hot temper, but in a violence, family like mine, you are taught to do that. host: you say --

host: how much or how many others were like that description? guest: not a whole lot fit all of the stereotypical boxes. a thing i try to write about is that a lot of the stereotypes people totally fair and are, justifiably, sensitive about "redneck." hopefully, that is not the picture i am painting of my family. some are not as extreme as bob, but i try to point out that a lot of the perceived problem's do notexist -- problems exist everywhere, but they are certainly there. the problems exist at a disproportionate level in our society and we have to be honest about it.

host guest: yeah. the tough thing about these areas is that most of the people who are out of work are trying applying, putting out resumes, talking to friends and family, and you can help to feel -- but to feel bad for them. on the other hand, there are people who are not working and don't seem to care that they are not working. they are not aware of it. the people who are not working extolled the virtues of hard-working, even as they don't work.

you see these people working hard and trying to get ahead in the other people who are not working hard and are not trying to get ahead. community like mine, you cannot miss both sides of the coin. i -- my sister and guest: that is exactly right. who wasken man is a guy in eastern kentucky transplant with chickens in his backyard. when one got old or sick, he would cut it up for me. there are a lot of modern americans who are creating that life and it was looked down upon back then. it is one of the many ways where

my parents felt like they were , asiders in this ohio town eastern kentucky transplants that many would call "hillbillies." -- there were upper-classatively ohioans who were not comfortable with the chicken man. host: how often did you see people hungry? guest: not a lot. a little bit in jackson. people were aware of it. as a kid, i was not aware of it. i did remember people talking about it. in middletown, people with not that much money were not so destitute that they could not .fford food ear

i never got the sense that they were truly desperate. poor?how many worere guest: a big chunk. i would say a quarter of the pretty close to the poverty line. they were worried about how they hes on theirot back and struggling in different ways. host: you talk about religion. euro beliefs? beliefs?wn guest: it is very religious, in .elf-identification

they will say they are evangelical, but people are not identifying as, i christian, but not going to bricks and mortar churches. the churchss to community, which i first got through my dad's church, was important. i have reengaged in my religious faith and it worries me that you see people who identify as christian but do not have connection to the church, because i do not think you are getting the benefits, if you are not engaging in the week to week way. host: what is the hillbilly highway? broad way tothe

talk about the roads that brought people into indiana, ohio, michigan. it is just a road. route 23, which ran through eastern kentucky to columbus. there were a bunch of people who drive along that highway, moving permanently, in search for a better life or wage. thatis interesting is that was also the way people got home on holidays. you would see people driving witheastern kentucky license plates from michigan and ohio. that is the roads these people traveled. is in coalntucky

country. as the crows fly, it is 100 miles. is 3.5s of driving, it hours. with the mountain road's, you cannot drive that fast. it is difficult to get a good speed. it feels further away than it actually is. it is a place where you can make a good weekend trip. it takes a while to get there. how do people gam,e the food stamp system? guest: there are a couple of ways. one way is that they buy soda and they sell it to their for a cash discount

for they will sell the food stamps directly. another thing i saw his people coming in and buying food and and with food stamps everything else is on a separate check. there is a recognition that they are not depending on the stamps andhe way that was intended it breeds resentment in your neighbor's. -- neighbors. they see people who need this and they see the people who take advantage of the system and they get frustration towards those who are gaming the system and they are frustrated with the government, who they feel is not monitoring the benefits as well as they should. there is an interesting feeling of people who recognize that the assistance is needed, but are upset with those who abuse it.

ast: you said you had an piphany as a young boy? guest: i had many. people in thehat was trying to do to help communities like mine, it wasn't going where it was needed . with the welfare system, you would see that people are using the system well and others are not using the system as honestly as they should. host: you said you hated school and you hated home more. which home are you talking about? mom, whereone with we felt like we were constantly cycling from boyfriend to

boyfriend to husband and it was unstable, chaotic, there was intense fighting and domestic violence in one direction or hated thed i instability, feeling as though i could never get comfortable and that i was constantly moving. you could come home from school and find out that you were moving from a house that you liked to a house of a stranger. that is what i disliked the most about home. host: school? guest: i didn't see the point of it and there was not a clear connection between education and opportunities. the people who did well in school did not necessarily make a whole lot out of themselves and they were not having good opportunities, so it was hard to believe that school mattered that much.

it is hard to go from a home where you are unhappy to a school, where everything is sunshine and rainbows. the unhappiness from home sometimes makes you sick, stressed out, worried about going home, and it colors the way you approach school. host: you have a degree from ohio state and yale. what do you think? guest: i think they could do ids and i do poor k not think it was a problem of mine growing up. there was so much going on and it was tough to focus. i would like to see the focus on recognizing the problem that

andted in homes like mine i'm cognizant of the fact that it is hard to make up for a negative home life and we really tried hard, and a lot of ways. what was your relationship -- what was the relationship mother?maw and your to sayshe was not afraid that she disagreed with a less stout choice. she was not always -- a lifestyle choice. she was not afraid to tell my mother about her decisions. host: you have lived in columbus. could you ever go back to hill country? guest: i definitely could. host: would you? guest: it is hard to imagine

going back to a rural place. the opportunities are not there. that is why people, like me, leave. it is hard to imagine what kind of job i would do. becausen drain is not we do not like our home anymore, but you have to have higher -skills jobs. host: someone asked you if you went to yale and you dodged it. guest: someone asked me and i fell, in that moment, that i would identify as an ivy leaguer , and i decide to be a southern i said that my

girlfriend went to yale. the reason i said this is because the upward mobility creates conflict in our mind. i would have felt like a bit of a class traitor. i don't want to gloss over the fact that, when you go to yak le, you become culturally alienated from the home that you grew up in, but i think it is possible, with conscientiousness. -- no photos.g guest: i am working on getting a website of c some of that characters they are reading about and it is something that did not come up. think towhy we didn't stick some photos and. it was -- photos in.

it, initely regret hindsight, because people identify with ma-maw. hang in there. i will have photos on a website soon. host: what is "hillbilly justice?" guest: a sense that there are certain wrongs in the world and that you do not need the law. sometimes, you should take care of business yourself. my grandmother told me the story of a man who was accused of andally assaulting a woman they found him facedown in a river with 16 bullet holes. story.er ran a short foul play dead,

suspected." she always lasted at this. -- laughed at this. this is what you do, when somebody wrongs your da family. came close tomaw killing somebody. host: somebody was trying -- guest: somebody was trying to steal the family cap. she went up -- family cow. she went outside and grabbed a rifle, shooting a man. radeother man left his com and she wanted to finish the guy off, raising the rifle at point-blank range. the older brother said that the man should face the legal consequences.

she felt passionately that it poor to steal the from one another, that it was the ultimate moral sin and she was not afraid to take care of this. not: she was a violent was ak and pa-paw nonviolent drunk. guest: they both could be violent. if you ever get drunk again, i will kill you. he came weeks later, home drunk and she poured gasoline on him and set him on fire and he escaped with mild burns.

"take it laying down" sort of type. it is funny, or troubling, depending on your perspective. said, you got a detail wrong. i thought that i had a mistake in the book. gasoline, itwasn't was lighter fluid. i said, i'm ok with missing that up. it doesn't change the nature of the story. happenede that really and it was a chaotic place to grow up. host: you said your sister became very attractive. where did she get that? do you know? lot of theink a women in our family are beautiful. hey-day, shein her

was a stunner. she got it from her mom and dad. she was a beautiful young girl and it goes back to family honor and pride. i am proud of her for not just being a good person, but also being beautiful. education do the people in your family have? guest: i am the only person with a four year degree. he, i believe,, got a four year degree later in life -- i believe, got a four year degree, later in life. i believe that my mom may have an associates degree. i'm the only person who has a graduate degree. host: when did you first get the

idea to write the book? guest: i was a law student and i of bothered by the question why there weren't more like me ale,ield and why -- at y why there were more fopoor kids like me. i wanted to ask and answer that question. host: would you do about that? write a you wanted to book and this is published by harper and is on the bestseller list. guest: it is funny. they came together in a serendipitous way. teere is an author who wro famous books and they said that

i should publish a book. itaid, i will think about and i wrote it, not thinking about if it we get published. at law school, she connected me with some friends of hers in the publishing industry and i had a book deal. excuse me. that is how that happened. they made sure i got a book deal and i was able to post the book and publish it well. things have gone pretty well, so far. host: that authors sat here and talked about her international book and she was the author of the tiger mom book, which was so successful. yale.owed up at guest: they were saying i was for the kids that

were not especially wealthy and i would receive the maximum amount, because i was one of the kids and it was one of the first times that being poor paid so well. these universities try to rec ruit, but it is hard to pierce the expectations. i had no idea it would be so cheap to go. at the end of the day, i probably incurred less debt, because i came from a family that did not have a lot of money. host: how many jobs did you have? guest: i had a couple, at one point.

i did not want to incur debt.i wanted to have spending money . i got used to not worrying about money and i liked it. i like not worrying about having a beer with friends. rewarding and interesting, it you do not have as much time to spend on sleeping. host: what was your gpa? guest: 4.0. i did well. i learned the lessons of the marine corps well. i did well and i tried. was my shot and i could not mess it up, if i wanted to go to a law school. i studied hard and i did well.

host: 4.0? a 3.95?ay bbe i don't remember. host: how did you get into yale? luck andock and -- score.at i did well. corpsthey like the marine background? i didn't apply to yale or harvard. a- "i am uote you

per person. -- hill stillson." -- to quote you, "i am a hill person." still? guest: yes. host: what is the story of when you were in the car and you ran away? something had happened and she was apologetic, asking her. take a ride with she told me she would crash the car and kill us both. obviously, i was scared. i was 11 or 12.

my seatbelt and hopped into the back of the car. sheepfold over the car and i took the opportunity to bolt. i asked ahe house and woman to call the police. came, my time they mother had located the house and she was arrested. that was traumatic, to have that experience in the first place, and the worst part was that it livesd the state into our in a way that was uncomfortable and that i regretted a great deal. did anybody in your life not like the book? guest: nobody has personally told me they did not like the

book. ohio,ple from kentucky or from kentucky this.io recognized for being honest about the problems and it .einforces my beliefs said, we will change directions and hopefully make things better. ost: host: what do you consider to be elite? guest: a cultural disposition,

eating at restaurants, anationing certain places, ullman of wealth -- an element of wealth. there is geography. there are people with credentials and those who grew t from where i grew up around. host: how do you view government? i am a conservative guy, but not the type of guy who thinks we should do away with all government. government activity can harm communities, create negative incentives, and it can also address problems without

appreciating the natures of the s and i would like to see government think harder about how to teach lower income parents how to interact with their children better. thisnds to think about as economic. i'm suspicious about the government having a role in these problems. back to youru gone high school to talk about your life? guest: not since the book has come out. i have had some contact with the administrators and i hope to go back. host: what would you tell somebody who had the same experience you had?

guest: you have to recognize that life is unfair and you have to see that unfairness and recognize that, with hard work and support for your family, you can overcome this and i always tell kids who were in circumstances that were -- that werem mine similar to mine, do not give up on yourself. that is the worst of all possible worlds. anddo you get to yale get a nice job? at the end of the day, work really hard, find mentors who will support you, guide you through the unfamiliar territories, and you have to be lucky. this is a thing i try to impress upon people. this will not be solved entirely

by personal agency. "up from your bootstraps" kind of guy. i had a lot of help and i want to get more the help desk more people to help -- i want to get more people to help. host: how did you meet your wife? me,t: she is different from but i see all the same values that i admire in the hill people in her. have ort the job you the school you went to that gives you the values. host: where is her family from? guest: india. you wrote --

host: what is the eraser story? aq and wewas in ir went to do assistance to a local school. we were giving out school serplies and i gave this era and he held that like a trophy, running back to his family. environmentg at his and his life and i realized that he had it a lot worse than i

did. when you grow up, like i did, it is easy to believe that the deck stacked against you and irene was that i am lucky and i should start appreciating some of the things my grandparents did for me, instead of being resentful. books like this are successful, something triggers it. what was it? .uest: donald trump helped people want to understand this group of voters who are voting for him. host: who in the media triggered the interest? dreher published a kind review and published a long

interview on his blog, giving me a chance to articulate the most important lessons from the book, that poverty and inequality are structural, but also cultural. a friend really liked the book ogged about. host: how many printings? guest: 250,000. host: how many originally? guest: 10,000. host: when did they know they would have to print again? american conservative made us realize the demand was greater than we thought it was going to be. it was off to the races from their. -- there. host: any intention of another

book? guest: never say never. host: most significant change? guest: i have a lot of strangers who know about me. i am a private person and i do not like telling personal stories and it is awkward to know that so many know so much justifiesbut the book my willingness to be forthright about my personal history. host: and of people, like you, -- a lot ofy are people, like you, say they are a private person. how can you say that? i was-- guest: uncomfortable and i had to be pushed to be more honest and forthright. i was pushed and i had to tell

the stories. the bargain i struck with my slef is that i think -- myself is that i think the story told is one that needed to be. -- is jacksonson all white? guest: not always. white.- host: where does the picture come from? guest: i don't know. it is a stock image. my guess is that it is from carolina. host: thank you for joining us. guest: thank you for having me.

>> for free transcripts or to give us your thoughts on this program, visit us at q&a.org. >> if you liked this q&a program, here are some others you might enjoy. berg takes a isen look at the u.s. class system. there is also a deputy inspector memoirs asabout his

a cop. and another author talks about the tea party movement. you can find those interviews online at c-span.org. ♪ after i came up with the idea of reproductive rights, i did research. i knew i could find information on that and it would help me figure out what points i wanted to say about it and how to form my outline for my peace --piece. think it is a process of me working and reworking. as i was trying to come up with what my theme was, i was coming up with more