of us had never heard before. we do know that people had -- you are able to hear from white players, black players. some of us agree, disagree. it is the next step of opening the conversation. he opened this conversation. if we are courageous enough and we are able to be honest with our feelings without name-calling, we can move forward. that weetes, i think play a vital part in moving this thing forward and having this conversation and eventually making permanent change. >> same question for you, joe. i love the way benjamin spoke about it. my first thought was, this is going to be an interesting week at work.

but then, after i got past that thought, i thought to be a little more serious. as benjamin said, knowing that that would be a guide to what we would do and the response to colin kaepernick, how would -- how it would protect colin kaepernick, a member of the players association, and how to protect his workers rights. i started thinking back to martin lee anderson. many people in the room probably don't remember martin lee anderson. 2006 andlaw school in i remember him because at the time i was still affiliated with a law firm that i did a summer clerkship with. with a small law firm in tallahassee, florida. a case came across our desk in that law firm in 2006 when i was still working for the firm while

at law school, with martin lee anderson. my thoughts went back to him. don't know martin lee anderson is because he wasn't trayvon martin, he wasn't michael brown. a lot of people who came to the same fate as martin lee anderson had after social media. a young man in a boot camp was strangled, killed while in that , at the hands of law enforcement. i started to think back at all the young men that i had not only witnessed but paid attention to because of my start in my legal profession, being at that place. that is when i thought about it. now, how do i feel about the players as they continue to express themselves?

even if inof them some instances i haven't agreed with what they said. the players who said they don't understand colin kaepernick and the players who stood with colin kaepernick. they all believe they have agency, which they do. that is one of the things we should want out of our athletes, because they are citizens of the united states of america and have rights just like anyone else. my hope is, as colin continues to express himself, that other players will find a voice and continue to find support in the community, inside the locker room, and outside of the locker room, so they can continue to grow and be citizens of these united states. carmen: the woman who started black lives matter has this famous quote. it says, "people love everything about black culture except black

people." often times, that is the reality that we have to face. people want to make money off us, where their hair like us. see all of thely things that we have to deal with -- you are laughing, but it is true -- showing up for work, that is harder for people. for me, i felt a huge sense of pride. it is always more powerful when athletes or celebrities stand in line with the issues that we care about. a conversation that i feel like many people should have but weren't having. fans to it forced 49ers think if it is something they care about. garner, the cofounder of black lives matter, is from oakland, the same area the 49ers are.

the one thing we try to do in our department is trying to empower workers of color and women and lgbt workers to say, if something isn't right, stand up. even if that means you will face adversity at work, luckily you do have a collective bargaining agreement, you are part of a union. for me, i had a huge sense of pride when i saw colin kaepernick do that. right now, people might look down at him, but a couple of days later i went over to the african american smithsonian where there is an entire exhibit of mohammed ali dissenting against the united states. when he passed away, all i can think about is that you all love him today but when he was at the height of his activism, you did not love him. when you are making

money off of us, we should be able to express our own truth. i think that is what colin kaepernick did. [applause] >> when colin kaepernick did heard manyeed, you of my fellow journalists dig up the oldest four words in the journalism handbook, four words used to silence activism -- and those four words are, "shut up and play." how do you respond to that argument? benjamin: that is the number one argument that people have for athletes -- not just the athletes, i would say anyone who has been in the public sphere, whether an actor or some sort of public figure. we want you to do what we turn the tv on to see you do and nothing else without realizing

we are fathers, husbands, friends, citizens, we have the same rights as anybody else has, and more importantly, we had the same emotions and feelings that everyone else has. we go home and turn the tv on too and watch the news. ising us one dimensional probably the biggest insult as an athlete that i have felt over , whenurse of my career people only want to know what you did on the field and after that, they don't want to know anything else. it is an insult and unfair. locker rooms, whether football, basketball, whatever it is, you have some of the brightest minds. they are able to express themselves and move the needle for whatever social change is. the first question you asked about, when you talk about being an athlete, that is probably one

of the biggest misconceptions and one of the hardest things to overturn. people want to hold their idols here, and don't like when the people they put on the platform disagrees with them. that is something that really irks me. people also have to realize how racist it is, shut up and play. i asked an olympian about it and slappedd at me like i him, and he said, "why don't you say, shut up and dance?" benjamin: i would agree with you. i would say probably for the black athlete, it probably carries a little more weight and harkens back to a time when all we were supposed to do was

perform and be seen and not heard. --is immediately and attack immediately and attack on the intellect. we have degrees, all those things. to say that to an athlete, especially a black athlete, it is more of an insult. i feel it when it is said to me. dave: job, same question to you play,"he "shut up and and your response when you hear it. you know, i go back to benjamin's first answer when he said after being upset, he finally finds his words and is able to express himself. play" isand essentially taking away my

agency. i have done nothing in my life play football -- almost 90% of the men in the national football league have gone through three years of college education. are we serious to say that these men can't express themselves about a social issue that they are intimately aware of because outside of their uniform they look like a lot of these other people who have had a hard time dealing with these issues. i don't understand what you mean when you say "shut up and play." i guess i should understand because while we don't talk about it in the news this year, i'm sure next year we will take a lot of time talking about jackie robinson and his 70th anniversary of playing baseball. this year, being the 70th anniversary of reintegrating football, no one is talking about it.

that that is a way we have dealt with athletes for quite some time, but i don't think that is something we should continue to do. my response is generally, why would you say that to these men when you don't know who these men are? you don't know that there is a young man who was also on the baltimore ravens who is getting . phd in mathematics why would you want him to shut up and play if he could solve some problem that could make anyone -- make everyone in the world better? there are players like ben watson who might write a book to help someone become a better leader not only in his community but in the country. you want him to make sure that his mind is prepared for the moment it gets to express itself. in that way, you will give him agency.

i will say briefly that it is the 70th anniversary next year of jackie robinson entering baseball, but this year is the 70th anniversary of jackie robinson breaking the color barrier in the minor leagues and getting run out of town on a rail because the town was so deeply racist and violent toward his family. wherewn in florida, trayvon martin was killed, and where donald trump held a rally today and people held up signs that said "blacks for trump." if we don't confront racism directly, the path will never be better. even though we probably -- you probably don't hear "shut up and play" too much, i would like your response. carmen: i was going to say, it is a form of white supremacy to say "shut up and play."

i think that all workers deal with this dynamic, which is why the union's are so important. it might not be shut up and play to me, it might be shut up and do your job, shut up and helped this patient, shut up and pick up this trash. people don't want me to come to work as a black woman from pittsburgh. except for when i am working late hours and coming in early and doing all these extra things that make doing this work important. to me, one of the reasons i feel like labor really has to take a stand on this is because we are protected at work so we don't have to shut up and play. when we are bargaining -- we are fighting for our collective bargaining agreements, saying i want more wages, benefits, childcare, that is the moment we

don't have to shut up. if we are trying to embrace what racial justice looks like, we would say "stand up and activate." dave: stand up and activate. a real quick question for joe and ben. people probably know that the nfl is called the no fun league, players that will fine money for dancing and in zone are wearing the wrong shoelaces. it is interesting to see that there were no fines for players for taking a knee. the antiunion structure at the top of the nfl is what the nflpa has to fight on a daily basis. they have left things alone like "black lives matter" across the

uniform. on this issue, they had taken a step back. it is curious to me as to why. youuld love to hear why feel the nhl may have chosen to take a more hands-off you -- hands-off view. >> i think it is probably more likely because there is no rule for a player to stand for the national anthem. if there had been a rule, i think there probably would have been action. it is my hope that there are also some people at 345 park avenue who understand how important this issue is, and they have counsel the people who make those decisions that it is probably not in their best interest. i would just say that there is no rule that says we have to stand up.

there is nothing they can find us for.- fine sensitivity ofe this issue for everyone in the nfl and people watching. they don't want to be in an issue -- in a situation where they are getting it from all angles for abusing a player's rights, especially when it comes to what is covered under the cba. they don't want to be in a place where they are fining or firing someone and it can be proven that the reason they were fired is because they didn't stand for the national anthem. whatever your opinion is of that person and what they are doing, we can't be in a world where they are doing that to the players. we have had these conversations. one of the things that we have talked about is, what happens if

we can prove that somebody got cut because they took a knee? what are our steps going to be that happens? we have to think about that. they honestly don't know what to do with it right now. on the one hand, there are people throwing insults, threatening to not watch games. now the big thing is, the ratings are down, is it because of this? there are a lot of factors like, i don't know, our presidential election is going on as well. i don't know if you had any -- one other thing, and i think this is something i want you to bat cleanup on, carmen. the other stereotype that you hear often, and it is interesting that i have only heard about this from management in my sports writing life, but

the idea that a political player will somehow divide the locker room and keep the team from winning. one of the players kneeling with cap hornick, -- with kaepernick did it not only because of the idea of fighting police brutality as much, but when he the nflffended that commentator said he had sources that colin was dividing the locker room. what do you have to say to people who say that it will take players minds off of what matters. benjamin: even when he first did it, i'm never doing an interview, and it was that very question. in any organization, you want unity. i don't want any divisions whether ideology, politics, faith, because i want my guys best prepared to win.

when you look at it, this is all about relationships. as people, we have relationships. it is fundamentally wrong to ,ssume that guys can't differ and because of their relationships and how they respect each other, still work together toward a common goal. i heard someone say, if one of my players did that, they would be cut. who is the old coach from indiana? said he would cut them. because whatesting did chip kelly do? i assume he went to his players that he has a relationship with "colin, why are you kneeling?" we have good enough relationships in the locker rooms that you have 53 guys on the roster and all of them won't

agree on everything but because of our, relationships, we can come was our goals. that -- we can't accomplish our goals. -- can accomplish our goals. that is what we should expect in our workplace at times that we don't believe what someone else believes. we can still have respect for humanity and move forward toward a common goal. the media, the way they talk about colin, it wouldn't work. luckily, our locker rooms aren't like what we are hearing everyone's saying. hate social media, you can with anonymity. disunity inty or the locker room is amazing to me when i hear someone outside of

the locker room hear about it. anyone who is ever played organized sports or football at a very high level know how many hours you spend burning off calories together and getting to know each other, doing drills and repeating the exercises in practice day after day. you are sweating in the locker room, weight room, you are bleeding on the field together to make a better product not only for your fans but for your team, with one common goal in mind. there are a bunch of things that come up as a source of conversation that could potentially divide a locker room, but most of them are overcome by the unity you have toward the common goal. asked if the fear that some of the players have in the locker room that their life may be ended by some action of a person who is acting indirectly is dividing the locker room,

that other people don't think about that? why don't people asked the question that way? because they don't really care about it. if i sit next to benjamin and benjamin is sitting next to me, we have conversations about everything that is going on with us. in many instances, there are some things that we don't share with one another, but there are other common things that happened in the course of our lives that we don't have to talk about. i think those things carry over to these moments like the colin kaepernick, whether he decided to kneel or not. if anyone has questions about it, they can go to colin and talk to him about it. that is one of the most important things my college coach said to me when i signed my letter of intent. i was signing up to be part of a fraternity that i would spend the next four or five years of my life with, learning about

them as they learned about me, and we would grow together as a family. i don't believe the disunity that everyone outside of the locker room has been talking about is something we will see. we will see people walking together to play their football games. carmen, i am sure you hear an echo of this. it is interesting that you brought up the viewership being down. the 9erse, let me call and see what they are doing. there is a whole generation of people who will be beholden to the 49ers because these players are being seen as role models. i will tell you what is not dividing people is the amount of money that is probably being made off of kaepernick's jersey.

my coworker was just in california trying to find the jersey and couldn't find it because it was sold out. you can reprimand the players for the things they care about, for showing up at work as a black person or person of color, and yet be ok making money off of their blood. we work with people we don't agree with all the time. i work with republicans -- maybe not here. i work with folks who have a different stance. at the end of the day, we are all working toward a common goal. if our political stances are the things that keep us from getting our work done, none of us would be able to get our work done. for me, that is not a viable excuse. dave: this next round of questions, i will start with you, carmen. we set the table and now we

really need to eat. we are here tonight to speak about the role that unions can play and the role that sports unions can play in advancing this discussion for equity and racial justice. maybe give us a little education, carmen. ,ow are unions, right now involved in the black lives matter movement? four, are unions involved? or, are unions involved. carmen: we stand for black lives matter and people -- and issues pertaining to racial justice. towant people to show up work with their identity. we have been striving to do our work through a racial and ethnic justice lens, because when i show up to work i am carmen but when i decide to shave my head

side,t a slit in the people might make a suggestion about that. that is something that could happen to many of us. over the past year, we have embarked on a process of having a commission for racial and economic justice where we have gone all over the country and talked to union members from every sector about how race interacts with your work. we have been doing a lot of work on criminal justice reform. in the united states, we have incarcerated 2.4 million people. over 7 million people are somehow connected back to the kernel justice system. you think about states like threea, where only one in black men are able to vote because they have had their voting rights taken away from them, that is a huge problem. we have a significant amount of people who cannot participate in democracy that would be

organizing around worker issues. however, our political system has not only punish them the first time by incarcerating them , but the second, third, fourth time by not letting them work, vote, have public housing or even move ahead in life. , we don'te afl-cio just see it as a monolithic perspective, but we see it as one people to live a better life. that looks like being able to show up at work as your full self and also being able to receive the benefits and wages that you deserve no matter your gender, sexual identity, or your race. dave: people should google this if they are not aware of it, but the seattle teachers this past week, they all wore black lives matter t-shirts to school. there were celebrations and rallies about that across the city of seattle, a city that is

only 8% african-american. a majority of by non-african-american actors. it started when an elementary school wanted to do a racial pride celebration and they got bomb threats. they got white supremacist threats, vandalism. what is so important is that teachers wanted to do something to help these kids and so where did they go? they went to the union. it has to happen at that grassroots level a lot of times. a lot of people see that the union is that space of where to go to do it. i would like to bring the question to joe. i assume right now that there are people in the nfl who are trying to figure out a way to assert themselves politically. there are inspired by what kaepernick is doing.

you don't want to take a knee but want to take a stand in some form. seattle seahawks player michael bennet was at one of the rallies. he said, "i am only going to be an nfl player a couple more years but i will be a black man my whole life." what is the union putting forward to players? obviously, benjamin is vice president of the nflpa and i have a guy that works there, but we have put together ways for players to express themselves. we have put together information on how they can express themselves through their vote, advocacy, how they can express themselves even if they want to be connected to some publication or website so that they can write an article or express themselves using their own words or some other media. a specific thing i will say is that we had at -- we have had a

unique partnership with rock the boat about how players who may be a way from their home state can get absentee ballots. we are looking at other ways to partner with the afl-cio with some of the get out the vote activism and campaigning they are doing. specifically around black lives matter and police brutality. in a number of locker rooms, there have the players have decided to have door meetings. it has been positive in the cities it has happened. a have the opportunity to speak their mind to the law enforcement folks on the other side of the table in an environment where they would understand how they were dealing. we get it.

every time a football player shows up in a city they get a police escort. then they turn on the news and see a different side of the police enforcement they had not seen. that if benjamin is an and baltimore but in some other major city, the police officers may not recognize he is a tight end. tight on capitol hill. we plan to have no less than 15 players that have asked to come to washington. we have been diligently organizing some of those fly totions so they can

washington dc and talk to their elected officials about what they can do to get this right. that is fascinating. expect an answer with that much depth and went. joe: that's what we do. carmen: it is my -- dave: it is my job to kind of know that. benjamin, same question to you. we really want to hear from all of you. the last word is to you. what do you think is the best way -- you mentioned the town hall. that sounded fascinating. what role do you see the union plying on a team by team level to advance this discussion of black lives matter and police accountability? benjamin: it goes back to the assumption that because we have made it, we don't know where we came from. we can't advocate for those who

are less fortunate. it is the assumption that because a quarterback is making $11 million a year, you can't care about someone being pulled over. you can't care about someone not being able to vote. you don't care about sex trafficking. you name it. there are so many injustices going on throughout the world. why should we, if we are not affected by something, why can't we care and advocate for someone being affected? use all white people caring -- you saw white people coming out and caring. they weren't affected by it but they cared about their fellow human. when you see guys that want to come and advocate, guys that want to meet with police officers or have the town hall meetings, we have so many different opinions about

different things. we came away saying if there is an injustice for someone than there is an injustice for all. we want to know what the truth is. we want to stand for justice personally. as an athlete and as a father i want to stand for truth, justice , and righteousness. i don't care what color the person is or where they live in the world. those are three things me and my family are going to stand for. a lot of guys feel that way. i have been talking to some aayers about organizing player advocacy network. players will come to washington. a senator talk to them about different things. nfl. is a stirring in the it is a reflection of what is going on outside of those doors.

we all feel like we want to do something, but what? i have been talking to some players. to walka responsibility on our platform well. and be responsible. that is what we want to do. carmen: you may give a round of applause for our panel? [applause] thank you so much. now we are opening the floor for questions. there is going to be a microphone going around. all you have to do is put your hand up. one of the folks will grab one. keep questions and comments less than two minutes. that is not a comment on the wisdom you are dispensing. it is just to make sure as many people as possible get to speak. micou hear a tap on the

don't take it personal. >> i am an attorney in. well andon says get come back. they need you. benjamin: i will. >> my question is on your last comment. and what adam jones said about baseball players being registered to speak out. what initiatives are unions and afl-cio doing to cross pollinate with other sports unions so that this movement of colin kaepernick doesn't end after the commissioner towards the trophy super bowl sunday? constantions are in communication with each other. .he executive directors they are always in communication. thee in the beginning of

season it was colin kaepernick, last year there were different demonstrations. division that there may seem to be. we all kind of piggyback off of each other and do it in different ways. , in it comes to the union know they have been in conversation with each other. these people who work in places have been working together on issues for quite some time. not just this. we have been even as a legislative group, all the players association's get thether, we throw down on things that matter to players. basketball, even major league soccer. we see what is on the legislative agenda and work through those issues together. affectssomething that football ball today could be a

detriment to basketball tomorrow if we moved our eye off of it too far. i almost said take our eye off of the ball. that would have been a bad joke. benjamin: there have been times where we have had to go to the state house because of certain proposed laws, especially in louisiana. ofy always keep us abreast the state of whatever it is. this affect us? the lines of communication are there. evene in the same bucket though we play a different sport. >> i appreciate the behind the scenes work. it would be even stronger for you. dave: the nfl pa is the only

sports union under the umbrella of the afl-cio. >> i really appreciate the panel. this is along the lines of journalism and how they are reporting of these protests. for every athlete protest the earth thousands of op-ed writers who plant the flag on shut up and play. david brooks recent piece on recently telling is gladly to shut up and play. criticism and there is no long-term effects to their career, unlike the athletes they cover. have you about how these are being reported? >> that starts with you. had you feel it has been reported?

before,we talked about a lot of it is how we play. i had a conversation about high school players in the late. -- emulate -- we have seen peewee teams, do they really know what they are doing? in middle school and high school team in texas, he is calling me saying i want to know how to explain this to these kids. they are taking a knee. it opened the door for his kids to be open with him about their fears and frustrations, about what they are seeing on tv, and allow him as a coach to step into their world. i think those are some of the things that are not being reported. coach, hehat a white says he is coaching majority black kids, he is able to have that honest conversation with them about their feelings, about

their older brothers who are locked up or had experiences with the police. he's able to have empathy at that point. when it comes to journalism, everybody has an opinion. they stay on their sides. aat is missing to me is willingness to hear, to experience that is not yours. a willingness to at least discover it and not state a certain -- make a certain statement to fulfill the ideals of the people reading what you are reading. dave: beautifully said. as a journalist i would say the majority of reporting that has been done on the black lives matter protests has been creap. the other word i would use to describe it is cowardly. cowardly for the

reasons that have been said. is here from think progress. both of those sites have been terrific from this question. they are not terrific because i agree about the analysis. they are not cowardly because they are actually reporting on what the athletes are saying. the cowardice of much of the media's reporting on this has been they don't actually say what colin kaepernick or what these kids in beaumont, texas, and everybody in between, what they are actually kneeling for. they are putting their own strawman into it. saying this is an anti-military protest. this is a we hate america protest. by doing that they lack the courage to say i disagree with the idea that as a policing problem in this country. i think we have a terrible policing crisis. if you don't think that, you

have a responsibility as a case,list to make that and argue your point. to turn it into something else, like this discussion about how beautiful the flag is? .t is bs it is journalism not worthy of its name. >> i was very excited this past year to see a lot of student ,thletes starting to organize and subsequently crushed when the labor board pretty much nullified that. i was most notably at northwestern university. i was wondering if that has or could resonate to the nfl or what your thoughts on these college athletes trying to organize our? >> the nfl players association -- whoed ken coulter and started the national collegiate layers association.

they came to us for support. listen. is ank what we see realization by some folks that i have to stand up for myself. i am the person i have been waiting for. you saw that northwestern. i do not believe that will be the end of the conversation. , this colin saw kaepernick situation. they made it seem as though they were asking for checks. they were asking for cash. they were asking for better conditions of their campus. and for that everyone that wrote on the subject was almost to a t said they just want to be paid. they just are greedy athletes. transpose that on 2016.

the same thing with colin kaepernick. all he asked for was a conversation about what was happening with policing in this country and how it is affecting certain communities. to conversation was changed a conversation about why he is un-american, why it is un-american to do what he is doing. i think you, the folks in this audience have to take a stand for what you know to be the right thing. that listening to the underlying message in what the person is really saying. not letting someone else guide your process. >> i would love your thoughts about whether you think college football players on a campus should be seen as workers, should have the right to collectively bargain.

>> 100% yes, yes, yes. no doubt. [applause] because of all the things we have talked about. they are workers. there are numbers you have to crunch and rules. but they are workers. they deserve the same rights that we have as workers. i remember when the kids from northwestern wanted to unionize. it was a crazy idea. i had never even thought when i was in college. i did know what a union was. to see the triple down -- trickle-down effect, seeing how something weis need as well. when i was in college i definitely think that many breaches of rights. you don't have the representation that we have in the nfl. we don't have the opportunity to

bargain collectively and have voices heard. they are at the mercy of the ncaa. players that northwestern took a labor law class. they were sitting there, this sounds very familiar. they were effectively punished by their coach, by the administration to apply what they were learning in class. they try to steer certain athletes to certain degrees. they don't want them to learn too much. >> they want you to wake up. >> one of the most inspiring shaunences i've had, alexander teaches sports history . a time of athletes in the class.

it is just like, well, it doesn't have to be ask it weaving 101. >> it is good that the nfl is being neutral but goodell is a paid hand for the owners. have you been getting pushback from the owners? some of the nfl owners as well who are off the wall? pushback in terms of they don't like what colin kaepernick and the other players are doing? >> i don't know if we have gotten pushback is players. there have been some statements on the record from some owners, particularly in the last couple of weeks. jim said he didn't agree with what players were doing as it related to them protesting the

anthem. you could probably find some of that. in,world these guys live the owners of the national football league are multi- millionaires and billionaires. the atmosphere they run and is one that is different from the athletes that play for them. they may have a different mentality. i hope is that they will develop a relationship with the athletes in their locker room. maybe it will make them better owners. >> just for you guys, i know you talk about unity in the locker room, and colin kaepernick's stand is not dividing. -- if he wonome wanted toand someone

have a black lives matter protest, a lot of was will get in line with you. have stoodople who up for have been african-american athletes. so to me, it almost speaks of the division. am i right or do our white brothers need to get on board? benjamin: that's a great question. and our meeting, town hall yesterday, i won't say everything that happened. one of the things we talked about was the difference between white america and black america and the experience. white america has to want to enter into the black experience. you don't have to. that is not good or bad. that is just the way it is.

your lane most of your life and not have to think about what the experience of black people are. know who are black have to about white coulter. they have to understand how to navigate in a white sphere. that is the way the country is set up. what is wrong is when you actively don't want to engage and don't want to experience and don't want to hear something that is not your experience. i think there are many white players who empathize. i think many think it is outlandish. many black players who think what he is going is outlandish as well. but we have not seen a white player taking me. -- take a knee.

that player is going to face probably more wrath than cap are net. -- colin kaepernick. thatare probably weighing while they are making that decision. joe: -- carmen: it is a privilege and not stand up. never met benjamin but he is my brother. if my brother is standing or kneeling, i feel like i have to, too. . through the work that we have been doing here, we have learned that race is not a black people's problem. it is in everybody's problem. why people are affected by racism. just like black people, latinos, asians, so forth.

they have divided workers of color and white workers. even through the election we are seeing how race is playing a role. whocially for those of you are into labor, think about right to work. we often don't talk about right to work as a racist piece of legislation. anti-semitic, was he was racist. he said i don't want those black -- in the workforce with white brothers. makeeated legislation to it difficult for black workers and white workers to work together into the south because of what was happening in the north. you have to follow the money and follow the politics. if white folks think that racism them, theyffect have another thing coming especially if the sport you love the most is predominately black. dave: 70%.

do you want to speak to that? joe: maybe we haven't seen widespread support and a vocal way from a bunch of players that don't look like colin kaepernick. but we have seen is in x the aid veteran come to of colin kaepernick and say he's once in 100% -- he supports 100%. some guys have sent it is his right to do it and i stand by him. i think that speaks to what benjamin said. , becauseshared emotion they are having these conversations for the first time in a real way, are leading them to find their own way and their own agency. as a't know that my job person that works with the players association definitely but even as a consumer is to say

to you the only way that you can show colin kaepernick your support is by doing the same thing colin kaepernick is doing at all times. that is not true. i am taking your agency away to do what you need to do to be comfortable in this moment. i would hearken back to the question of owners. stephen ross has offered his support 100% standing behind players who were protesting. who mayseen some people be were not on board. once they found their own agency they are stepping out in a way that is comfortable to them, also confronting these things they see that are in alignment with what colin kaepernick is confronting. >> it is worth noting that at the high school level, at the junior high school level, there are white athletes, brown athletes kneeling with their black athletes, band members, if you sell the footage in oakland.

if nothing else, that should make us feel hopeful, even if there is disappointment we haven't seen more white male professional athletes step up. also you saw how powerful it can be when white and black teammates kneel together. i write about this particular issue a lot. the idea of taking the weight is so important. cohost always says being a black athlete is a burden and a blessing. you get to connect with this incredible tradition of people like jackie robinson and mohammed ali. but a burden, because it is on you to protest. or if another athlete gets in trouble with the law, the microphone is in your face. what do you think about dogfighting, as if that has anything to do with your life. it is past time for white athletes to take some of that burden.

>> i want to talk about the pushback. this isn't the first time black athletes have stood up to fight back. to help jackiem robinson integrate baseball. then he said this is just not a problem of should this guy be denied the opportunity to play for the dodgers. this is endemic in the system of capitalism. he one of the discussion to go further. paul became ousted. they took away his all-american. the mohammed ali did the same thing. he said this isn't just a problem of black people, this is a systemic problem. what is the message? that what we are trying to explain to people is that racism hurts all workers and we need to build a united movement to bring it down?

i think that is what the message should be. what do you think about that? is what we have learned over the past two years of having conversations, there are multiple ways to have a conversation about race. the number one way, this narrative that racism hurts everyone. what is the impact it actually has? hall in town minneapolis. a worker that i have to go to work an hour early to mentally prepare for the racism i'm going to have to deal with. they were not an nfl player. this was a regular worker. how does that affect activity if someone is having to wake up early enough to deal with racism and that way? from the legislation we are working on, when we think about

trade and the transpacific partnership, this is something that hurts all workers, but i'm from pittsburgh, pennsylvania. when i look at all of these abandoned buildings i am thinking about how is trade completely decimated my little city? how have other bed trade deals -- bad trade deals hurt my city? it's going to take a culture shift for us to not have to show up feeling the white guilt. this isn't about white gold. this isn't about white privilege. it's about saying communities of colors make up a significant portion of the labor movement, i care about these people, and it's time to figure out how do we have full integration? integration allows for us to actually move the progressive agenda forward? if we had folks when immigrant rights community and the movement for black lives

standing in line with us on trade? on tpp? who might be able to put more pressure on the administration. if people continue to see the labor movement as divisive, or they don't get to see -- i'm a black lady. the more they get to see those of us that work here, the closer communities of color will be to organizing around our issues. our issues are everyone's issues. we work on the economy. >> i wanted to ask a question about the locker room. so, the nfl is 70% black and therefore white players -- >> we are going to take you live to indiana, the university of southern indiana for the debate to replace governor mike pence

who is running for vice president. and >>eg, eric holcomb bell debate tonight. here on c-span. >> good evening. welcome to the indiana debate commission third and final gubernatorial debate. it is being televised at the university of southern indiana. the three candidates want to succeed governor mike pence, a republican who is donald trump's vice presidential running mate. it is my pleasure to be your moderator this evening. it is great to be back here in evansville will i served for the courier press until 2012. our first debate focused on education. the second was on jobs and the economy.

we are now turning our attention to health and social issues. candidatest hour the will debate issues mostly focused on those topics. many questions are drawn from those submitted by you, members of the voting public throughout indiana. some will be asked in person here by members of our audience. none of the questions have been shared in advance with any candidates. here are our candidates. holcomb is indiana's lieutenant governor. john gregg is the democratic candidate and a former indiana house speaker. >> bell is the libertarian candidate and owns a small business. position on the stage and the order they answer questions were determined by a lot.

each candidate will have one minute to respond. each candidate will have a 32nd rebuttal opportunity depending on the need. before the final question, each candidate will be given an opportunity to address a topic of his choice. this allow candidates to discuss a topic they believe is important but has not been touched on in the questions, or they can elaborate on a topic discussed previously. each candidate will make a one minute opening statement. we will begin with mr. holcomb. lt. gov holcomb: it's good to be back on the campus. thank you to the indiana debate commission. thank you to the cubs fans tuning and before the first pitch. i would like to say indiana has never been a more prosperous position. unemployment is 4.5% lower than the national average.

we have more people working in the private sector than ever before in our 200 year history of the state. and a triple-a credit rating. we have become a real leader nationally and internationally. to take us to the next level, i believe we are going to have to focus on our people, our people, our people. if we equip our youngest people at the preschool age, when have a ticket to their success going into a college or career, we will take indiana to the next level. >> now mr. gregg. mr. gregg: i want to thank my opponents for the stability of which we have taken this debate. i would be are mystified and congratulate them on their conduct. i want to serve as indiana's first governor. -- 51st governor.

i believe indiana can do better. as governor i will focus like a laser on the economy, on high wage jobs, on attracting businesses, not scaring them away. in education, we will stop teaching to the test. we will see teachers as part of the solution, not the problem, and we will have prekindergarten for all students. as a former president of the university, i am ready to govern and i'm ready to learn. check out our positions at greggforgovernor.com. moderator: mr. bell. mr. bell: i would like to think the debate commission for including us this evening. i have a connection to my two oldest children who graduated here more years ago than i like to think.

my plan for indiana is to get government out of your way. things we can think individuals do better. we would like to attract more jobs and better paying jobs in indiana. we feel we can do that by a eliminating the property tax. this is what government does to attract you all already. we think we should do it for all businesses so we would have more businesses and jobs than we can keep up with. return controlo of the schools to the parents and teachers on local boards, get away from washington and the state. moderator: thank you. on to our questions. our first question will be asked by danielle my web developer here at the university of southern indiana.

>> as governor would you support the expansion of needle exchange programs, and how would you who areoosiers dependent on illegal and prescription drugs? lt. gov holcomb: this is an issue that is strangling not just our families but communities across the state and nation. exploreto continue to every way we can to not just solved the problem for one community but to kill the drug epidemic itself. we're going to have to focus making sure we are preventing, thercing and treating families and individuals caught up in this scourge. yes to the needle exchange program. when he to make sure it is more efficient. that will require legislative action. it will require action to make

sure locals can identify and act on the problem and not wait on the state to make sure they get the resources they need. this is an all hands on deck priorityd it is a top in my administration. moderator: now to mr. gregg. a public: we have safety plan. the first thing it mentions is about drugs. it is about that crisis. indiana is first in meth and methamphetamine and fifth in over doses. the truth of the matter is we have got to change the way we look at drugs. for the dealer and the trafficker, they need to be locked up. to the violent criminals they need to be locked up. for many hoosiers, this is a medical issue. we need to treat it as such.

rehabilitation works for every dollar we put in, we save four dollars in public health and seven dollars in the criminal justice system. we can do better. we cannot afford just to continue to build prisons. rehabilitation works. check out our full program at forgovernor.com. what we: if we look at have accomplished in the last 50 years, nothing. the addiction rate is the same as it was. what are we doing, how are we going to continue this? we need to make a change. we need to stop treating drug addiction as a crime. we need to treat it as an illness. we need to decriminalize a lot of it. when people need help they can step forward without fear of being arrested. needle exchange program, a lot

of lyrical input on that, a lot of play from both sides. it is not something that can't he done privately. needles cost seven cents. we have seen the instances in west virginia and different states where private individuals and private organizations have set up needle exchange. at the local pharmacy. there is a lot we can do that doesn't involve government force. moderator: our next question will also come from the audience and will be asked why amy kelly. she the regional director for the mentor network which provides community-based services for workers with disabilities. >> the unemployment rate for people with disabilities is 80%. many people disabilities can and want to work. what will you do to create employment opportunities to have

access to job training and careers that will increase independence? the first thing we need to do in indiana is to take a look at how we are doing our training right now. i have employers tell me they never talk about taxes, they talk about needing employees. we are doing training through the governor's office. some sort of workforce development office. some through ivy tech. there is not a lot of communication. we can do a better job if we have all of these groups talking to one another so we find out what is working, what is not working, and what we are training people for. state'sthing is the adding processes have been changed where they really work to a detriment of the small business owner, people with

disabilities and minorities. the bids are two big for startups to bid on. when he to make them easier for those folks access. moderator: thank you. mr. bell. mr. bell: when we talk about unemployment, and we look at it when everybody is involved, people without disabilities have a leg up on being able to get that job. what we need to consider, are there enough jobs out there? what can we do to create more jobs. if we did away with the property tax, attract more businesses to the state, we would have businesses competing for workers incident of workers competing for the jobs. i think that is something we need to consider. the best thing we can do to help everybody, disabled or not, is make a situation where there are

more jobs available. i think we can do that. doing well at the property tax is going to solve a lot of the problems try to figure out another way to fix it. i think we already have the answer. withov holcomb: i agree both on two issues. people are not talk about taxes because they are a reasonable low in indiana. and mr. bell is correct in the sense that what we have to do is make sure we are building an economy and a jobs market magnet that lifts all boats. specifically when it comes to those who are disabled, our work will never be done on this front. when he to be focused on what they are able to do in transforming our workforce development can go a long way on this front. we need to make sure there are local providers like the

teaching hotel providing skills to those were disabled, creed of ways to get folks into the job force, so with the department of workforce development and with global partnerships this will go a long way. moderator: let me remind you that tonight's debate focuses on health and social issues facing hoosiers. our next question was supported by a graduate student in indianapolis. indiana is ranked 48th and public health funding. $39 per person. indiana is ranked 41st and overall health and ranks high in the percentage of people who are obese and diabetic. 45th -- 47thnked and air quality. what do you plan to do about investing in the health of hoosiers? watching via folks

television this has particular resonance here in southwestern indiana between local health indicators and the presence of coal power plants. we will turn first to mr. bell. of bell: there is a lot parts to that question. certainly we expect the government to protect us from fraud. if someone is polluting the air we need to step up and put an end to that. problem, the obesity that is something we have to look at and say is that the role of government or something we can handle as a society? as a society we have a better shot handling that type of thing. a lot of this is considered how we can steer society towards these areas. certainly whenever we have a

company coming in with jobs and they want to keep a healthy workforce, they are invested in them type of a situation. it is what we need the work for, other than government protecting us from somebody, forcing something on us. we need to step back from that. moderator: now to mr. holcomb. lt. gov holcomb: there are many parts to that question. some concern behavior and choices we make. there are no food deserts. that is a local issue s we need to get to so folks are not restricted to healthy food options. we need to make progress in 2005 building out our trail systems. this was a big part of our regional cities initiative, to

make sure communities were encourage keeping in shape. if you are smoking, we know there is an adverse reaction between smoking and obesity. i would encourage folks to take -- 1-age of one 800 800-quitnow. indiana does rank so when it comes to public health, you can directly relate that to the priority we put on it. being one of the five lowest states. we see that in the obesity. we see that in the diabetes. i met with people from riley children's hospital.

we talked about the problem we have in indiana. basic education would go a long way helping with infant mortality rate. sometimes it is education. sometimes it is educating them not to smoke. we see problems in indiana caused by public health by the lack of priority we put in this area. in reality they are dealing with 20's and higher. goadult protective services for two and 300. many questions from a man released from prison after witnesses recanted and dna evidence cleared him. governor pence has refused to pardon him. how do you believe the power of the pardon should be used, and would you use it in his case?

we will start with mr. holcomb. lt. gov holcomb: reviewing what i have on this case, which has -- i am not governor yet, i want to make sure i talked to mr. cooper and review the facts of the case. i understand where governor pence is coming from. knowing the facts as i do now, and wanting to accumulate more, i would look forward to quickly exonerating swiftly if the facts bear that out. based on what i have read i would pardon. i would pardon him immediately. i have traveled the state. this has been a huge news item. any governor would realize this is something you need to do on a case-by-case basis and know the facts much like my friend mr. holcomb said. there comes a time when you have

to make a decision. the facts in this are pretty clear. i take these charges seriously. i've had these discussion was members of state police alliance, the organization of our state troopers who have endorsed me. i'm very proud of that endorsement. i take crime and law and order seriously. on the system has made a mistake we need to correct it immediately and move on. moderator: mr. bell. mr. bell: i think he should be pardoned immediately. i follow this case. you have to look at it and say whenever something like this comes up, the burden of proof should be on the state always. all,ere is any question at and certainly in a case like this where there is no question the man was innocent, he needs to be pardoned. i can't understand.

is we are saying we need to protect the government instead of the individuals. we should not be doing that. if we start worrying about we are worrying about the protocol of what has happened before, what kind of precedent it would set, if we set a precedent for releasing innocent people from prison that would be a good one to set. moderator: we are now going to turn back to the audience. an attorney will ask the next question. role will your faith play in your decisions you make as governor? where do you draw the line between religious beliefs, and what is best for the interest of all hoosiers? moderator: mr. gregg will respond first. mr. gregg: i'm a person of faith. ike many people in our nation belong to the christian faith. i also realize there are people of other faiths and some people

of no faith and i respect that. i think that is the same way you will find that will govern. i will respect all peoples. i think that is what we are called to do. i want to take an oath to uphold our constitution and treat people equally. my faith is something that is important to me. i'm not running to force my ideology on someone else. rather than stand on the street corner, i will use a biblical i would rather people know that i'm a person of faith by my actions. very good. mr. bell. mr. bell: my faith is important to me. it is not something i want to force on other people. if you have done any reading it all on the libertarian party, that is what we are all about. we look at the individual.

every individual has rights. they don't have more rights than a single individual. for me to decide that the bulk of the nation is a christian nation that we should follow christian teachings, that is not for me to say. that is not for me to decide for you. certainly we would separate our faith from our governing ideals. i hope everybody would do that. moderator: thank you. lt. gov holcomb: as governor, i would respect all faiths and those of no faith at all. i consider myself a matthew six christian. someone who tries to live out my faith. i think there are many lessons in the good book that instruct me privately and i will continue to take that approach as governor. one that would absolutely try to

limit and not have to profess it. i understand the power of witness but you can get that in watching how someone actually lives their life. moderator: thank you. is speaking of faith and values, one voter asked about the indiana ban on the sale of alcohol on sunday. would your administration support modifying or eliminating the band? why or why not? i have always maintained anything legal on saturday should be legal on sunday. [laughter] aboutless of how i feel it. i'm not a drinker. i'm not going to bite on saturday or sunday. if somebody wants to, this is ,eft over from the blue halls you could sell cold beer in one situation and in another you

can't. you get into situations where a person, a store can be selling warm beer. if the power goes off in the beer gets too cold, all of a sudden he is breaking the law. that is something we need to look at and do away with the blue laws, and allow sunday sales. lt. gov holcomb: i don't favorite. athink alcohol is still legally controlled substance in the state of indiana. we need to make sure we are able to do that. making sure our excise police this doesn't put an undue burden on folks who need to have a drink on a sunday. they can plan accordingly six days prior. well, when you plan

didn'tngs, right you plan on a lot of questions, that is not one i thought we would be asked about. i would want to see a piece of legislation. it is a controlled substance. the idea that anybody can sell it without having proximities that, if therns on legislature set me a bill to allow sunday sales i would likely sign it. having given it a lot of thought, i would want to see how the debate play out and listen to retailers and consumers. contrary to what my mother is going to say, she is not going to like my answer, i would likely sign it. are going to continue on the theme of controlled substances but the question from jason, a retired air force nurse from the indianapolis area.

jason wanted to know, why is that we have not allowed cannabis to become a medical treatment for children with untreatable diseases? , a derivativeine of pcp to be used, methamphetamine to be used to oxycodone ford pain. but we will not allow patients to even try cannabis. the question is why. lt. gov holcomb: having a discussion about legalizing drugs at this time seems to be off key. when you read about story after story about the drug busts occurring that have marijuana and heroin, this is a great concern. . understand the distinction i would want to talk a lot more with the medical professionals

who say there are no other alternatives for these children. if only medical marijuana could suffice. right now in the world we're are living in, expanding or legalizing drugs is not on my list. mr. gregg: this is a very serious matter. 2012ld support as i did in , i would support medical marijuana. this is something that would benefit patients. they should be allowed to use it. father.y it was not a fun death to observe. the doctors never said anything about medical marijuana but had they have, we should have had

that right to let him alleviate that pain. i would support medical marijuana as i did the last time. moderator: mr. bell. mr. bell: i would support medical marijuana and i think, we are going to seeing after this election there is going to be more states supporting it already. it is a matter if indiana is going to do it. it is something we need to step out of and get done. there is so much we can do. not only helping people that need it. helps been proven to be a in alleviating some addictions going on around here. one reason tothan

legalize it. along with that, even with the industrial hemp we need to bring back in, it is a plant that has been made moderator: mr. holcomb, would you like to have a 32nd rebuttal opportunity? 30 second rebuttal opportunity? mr. holcomb: i remain where i was standing. i have not flip-flopped. question from a resident of indiana. the mostut on hold restrictive antiabortion bill to come out of the state legislature. what is your position on abortion and birth control? we will start with mr. gregg. have always been and considered myself a pro-life

democrat. with that said, i do not believe it is my business to interject myself and issues between a woman and her physician. i do not believe legislatures should be practicing medicine. theve always supported funding of planned parenthood, even though personally being opposed to abortion, because do truth of the matter is, all of fromoney that they get taxpayers goes to providing birth control and health screenings. andcutting down on std's mammograms. that is what the money is for. you are talking about birth. if the problem is unwanted children, we need to make that more accessible. i would have vetoed that though. there were many members of the d beenature who ha pro-life for many years who spoke up and bipartisan fashion. millions of dollars of

research on alzheimer's and cancer and things like that. it is just wrong. moderator: very good. mr. bell? mr. bell: certainly, i am opposed. i understand that it is a problem that will never be solved. i think that in a situation like in between aepping woman and her doctor, that is wrong. i think one of the best things that we can do about abortion is make sure that we keep the federal government out of it, i love the states to make these decisions -- allow the states to make these decisions. i do not think every state will make the same decision. they will never be satisfied by a decision handed down by a judge anyway. we need to take it back to the states and get the federal

government out of it. moderator: we conclude the question with mr. holcomb. i am pro-life. i understand the debate is been going on for decades and there are good people on both sides. having said that, i personally have the right to take another innocent life. while my agenda will focus on economic development, community development, excellence in education, and good government and taxpayer value, if legislation comes down to my desk, i will be working with those legislators before it arrived so we can avoid any missed impressions along the way. moderator: thank you very much. now we come to the segment of the debate where candidates speak on a topic of their choice. andholcomb will go first can talk for up to one minute. the samewill follow on

topic for a maximum of two minutes. mr. gregg will also speak on that topic for up to two minutes. and then we will conclude the first round with mr. holcomb, who can close out the topic with up to one minute of rebuttal. the other candidates will have the same opportunity to the on a topic -- speak on a topic of their choice following the normal rotation and format. we start with mr. holcomb. my topic involves public service. i appreciated serving a cause startinghan myself with the u.s. navy. i later went to work for other strong leaders, including former and a unitedels states senator and now our governor, mike pence. when he called, i was not seeking the job, but i jumped up

in a nanosecond and put aside what i was working on 12 because greater than myself. because of public service, we are able to do so much when we are focusing, working on leaders throughout my life, i have learned a few things. i have learned to focus and prioritize. that is why i am laser focused on my four-point plan to make sure that we get indiana to the next level. moderator: mr. bell, you have two minutes. mr. bell: i think a lot of what we need to do is public service to dotted government in a position where it is helpful to government-- guide in a position where it is helpful to everybody, not transferring money from one making to another, not our educational choices for us.

i think one of the best things we can do as public servants is the government out of people's way. that is what i will try to do. i understand there are people who have been involved in politics their entire lives. you get into a situation where it is the same group of people making the same rules and basically i believe we should not be making rules, we should be removing rules. from forceseople abroad, it should not be on the books. thank you, mr. bell. mr. gregg, you have two minutes. mr. gregg: thank you. i believe in public service. i am very proud to have been a candidate for governor. i am proud of many years ago when i served in the general assembly. an equally proud of having been a small businessmen, having made a payroll, having been a president of the university.

i was a member of the university house of representatives -- indiana house of representatives, met one party had the best ideas. ideas should not be called democrat or republican, they should be good or bad. speaker for six years and in two of those years, we were tied. almost all politicians you hear say i can work with the other side of the article. trust me, when you're 50-50, you work with the other side of the aisle. the entire time i was speaker, was controlled by the republican party, so every piece of legislation -- cutting the excise tax, funding for infrastructure, it all landed on the governor's desk with democrat and republican support. i am very proud of that. i have traveled the state, i have listened and learned.

they are tired of partisan politics. i have a record of reaching across the aisle and i am very proud that in my last speaker of n a national wo award from governing magazine for being public official of the year. brian bosworth, the speaker of the house, we won the award by working together in the spirit cooperation on tax restructuring and doing away with the excise tax. moderator: thank you mr. gregg. mr. holcomb, you can close it out. mr. holcomb: one of the things i am most proud about in my state government service, i came to it in 2005, is that i saw people used to be cynics, believe things could not get done, start to believe because they were toving on -- i drove on i-69 get here today.

we had a person after person after person say that they never inught i-69 would get done their lifetime. we have made a record investment in education. budget, we increased it by $474 million. record investments in infrastructure. record, creative, innovative investments into health care, insuring over 400,000 hoosiers. these are the kinds of things that we have been able to do in a bipartisan way and get the state moving again. moderator: thank you mr. holcomb. the next round will begin with mr. bell. you have one minute on a topic of your choice. guess i get to use the microphone model. the top -- microphone now. the topic of my choice goes to the same thing. aerything we do as

government, we need to look at it, is this the proper role of government? as i pointed out before, should government be taking money from one citizen and forcibly giving it to another citizen? should government be taking money from citizens and giving it to businesses? and we say, no, that is a decision that people should make. tot business they want support, what you really want to support. i think that by eliminating the , we can allow people and the society to attract businesses, which is what we should be doing. what government should be doing is taking all of the taxes and using them on the road. we should eliminate incarceration for victimless crime. thank you. thank you, mr. bell bell. mr. gregg, you have to minutes to respond. -- trivial minutes to respond. thegregg: i understand

concern about government but there is a very specific role for government in our lives and one is for infrastructure. indiana has a problem with state infrastructure and we know it. who do not have to travel to evansville. youtruth of the matter -- do not have to travel to evansville. because the matter is that we have a $200 billion deficit on infrastructure. my running mate and i put out a detailed program with specifics where we go to the next generation trust fund, $500 million, and leverage that while money is at a low two, at $300 billion additional funds for the cities and towns for roads and bridges over the next 10 years. creating 66,000 jobs. this is so important that we do that. one in five bridges in our state is going to be obsolete in just 18 years. we take the second pot of money

and re-create the -- we create infrastructure bank. there are other things that are important. broadband connectivity. so local community's borrow money. this will allow them to use this to improve the quality of life to attract and retain capital. the really concerned about state's broadband. 40% in indiana do not have cell service or high-speed internet and we cannot operate like that in the future. we need money for infrastructure and the plan will put money aside so we can start talking doublehe fourth port, tracking the south shore for the south bend to chicago, we can talk about finishing i-69, and we can talk about the new bridge between evansville and henderson. moderator: thank you mr. holcomb.

mr. bell, you can close out. mr. gregg: i am mr. gregg. i finished. moderator: sorry. see what happens when i look at my notes. [laughter] moderator: it is all yours. mr. holcomb: i am back here challenged one. one.e hair challenegd [laughter] mr. holcomb: if i may. i think mr. bell brings up a great point and it comes at what kind of state and we want to be and what role do you want the state government to play in your daily life. one of the things i am most proud for as i went through these statistics earlier about ranking in the country. it does not just represent numbers, it represents opportunities, and we have been able to make so much progress. at the same time we remain a free state. the fourth freest in the country.

be said,omething to something to be said for that. at the very same time we have been providing this government arvice, we have done it is 1975 state employee level. a 1975 state employee level. absolutely the infrastructure is a part of state responsibility. how are you going to pay for it? give an honest disagreement, mr. gregg and i, on how we are going we have an honest disagreement, mr. gregg n.o.i., on how we are going to pay for it. theork hard to create program that was a $3.8 billion infrastructure program that took us from talking about i-69 to building a i-69. took us from talking about completing the heartland to a new bridge in madison. all over thes

state of indiana that sat for decades, i-69 was talked about during the korean conflict. we finally found a way to not just talk about it but to actually do it. on autely we need to focus long-term, data-driven, sustainable infrastructure system that puts us not just borrowing rai andding ding and borrowing. we are still paying on bonds. moderator: mr. bell? -- mr. bell: a lot of this comes back into the proper role of government when we talk about bombs that we are paying on and when they tore down the hosierdone. it is a matter of when government steps in, things that it should not be involved in. we talk about the roads, certainly everybody wants good roads and bridges. we can accomplish that by

applying 100% of road use taxes to the road. not need to take road use taxes and build walking trails. thealked about infrastructure in town for water and sewage, certainly that is a necessary item, but it is tied in politically and people are a rates- afraid to raise to pay for water and sewage. to the of running state governments, companies should be taking care of that on their own. as far as broadband, for the government to take care of this, eh. moderator: thank you, mr. bell. and now, for my final round, mr. gregg. mr. gregg: thank you. thank you for recognizing me. [laughter] mr. gregg: you know, you will this campaign about indiana, the state of indiana. i am not one that accepts the status quo. i will grant them to concede to

my opponents that indiana has low unemployment, but it is nothing to brag about. let's talk about actuality. we do have low unemployment. the actuality is that we have dropped to 38 per capita income. what that means for a family of four in princeton or fort wayne, they make $7,000 a year less than the average american family . we can do better than that. wages are growing slower than the rate of inflation and slower than in our neighboring states. inwer than what they are kentucky to the south of us. we need a plan that is in writing and detail that focuses in five main areas which i will explain at the end. moderator: thank you, mr. gregg. mr. holcomb? the status quo is in large part why governor mitch daniels got elected in 2015.

i do not think that the reforms that we brought about and i was associated with, proud to be a part of that crew that came into the government, we were operating in a sea of red ink, drowning in it area the status drowning in it. the status quo was decided we set out for infrastructure reform, consisted around, turned it, ushered in a come back. reforms, -- because of reforms, some of which were controversial. the service is important i made earlier, after you start the point ioad -- made earlier, after you start building a road, have the economy dialed into the point where we have become a magnet, we are outpacing the national average in terms of high-tech jobs, triple the average. please like salesforce saying they are going -- companies like

salesforc saying they are goinge to hire another 800. that is happening because we are not in another status quo. moderator: mr. bell. we have been in the status quo with some minor changes over the last several years. and whatbout the roads each administration has dawned, and maybe one does it a little better than the other. we are still in a situation where we are not doing all that we can do. we talk about being the fourth freest state in the country. i think we should strive to be the first freest state in the country. jobs and the wages being lower. well, a lot of that has to do with not having enough jobs, not having companies have to compete for workers.

certainly if we do away with property tax and attract more businesses here, we are going to have more jobs, not enough people to fill those jobs. that naturally drives wages up, that is something that we can do that way. having a lower wage scale in indiana, we need to remember also that we have a lower cost of living here in indiana. my son that i mentioned sanuated from usi, moved to diego, california last year. from, he was down and all of branch, mississippi at the time, and he told me he went erom being one of th richest men in all of branch, mississippi to one of the poorest men in san diego. i am very proud of the fact that we can live cheaper here than other places. certainly we want to raise wages

every chance we get but i think we need to keep things in our mind in proportion as to where we are. moderator: thank you, mr. bell. mr. gregg? oosiers are working two and three jobs to get by. we have not focused on higher wage jobs. information technology, logistics,gy, advanced manufacturing, and agribusiness. if you look at the detailed plan, you will see that we have, we talked about establishing a growth and opportunity fund to unleash entrepreneurial spirit were people who need to seed capital can come to get money and we certify venture capitalists. toallow that to be increased 20% and 30% like kentucky and tennessee have done. we allow the transfer and sale of that credit.

taxes as to how they affect the mom-and-pop businesses. you know, the indiana chamber of commerce says that one thing we have to do is be a welcoming community, and that means we have to pass civil rights protection for members of the algae e.g. community. -- lgbt community. gregg.or: thank you, mr. one of the great joys of my life, in addition to being a journalist, is serving as the president of the society of editors. one of our first tenets is open government. the first question is up my alley. considereds have open meetings as vital to the society. the recent indiana supreme court decision refusing to weigh in on whether legislative records were public disclosure has been criticized as effectively shielding both the legislative

and executive branches from the people's ability to learn what the state government is up to. would you support more robust public access to the inner workings of government and court oversight? why or why not? gentlemen, you will have 30 seconds to respond and we start with mr. holcomb. mr. holcomb: well, i would, considering it is the taxpayers that they for the office equipment that we use to theract -- that pay for office equipment that we use to interact with the public. having said that, we want to make sure that the citizen who has signed a privacy authorization form, therein lies the balance. certainly if we're using public property to conduct public business, the public deserves the right to see. moderator: the next response will come from mr. bell. mr. bell: certainly, this goes back to the, the burden we

talked about earlier. the burden of proof should always be on the government anytime a citizen asks to know something about the government. they have the right to know that. was in back to who charge. certainly the citizens should be not the government. i cannot think of very many instances where the government would have the right to keep things a secret from the people paying the bill. moderator: mr. gregg? the second policy initiative that we put out is open portal. i 100% supported. i believe the more people low about government, the less they will fear about it. they will see the tax dollars coming in and going out. they are to be able to see the contracts and government business in real time. ought to be- -- p

able to see the contracts and government business in real time. moderator: thank you, mr. gregg. and now for the final question of the night. folders who have been following the three debates now have a who have been following the three debates now have a good idea where you stand on the issues. as we conclude the debates, tell us the most important thing about yourselves that you want voters to remember as you cast the vote. as they cast the vote. each of you will have 30 seconds to answer. first of all, i am very happy to hear that we will not have an open records problem anymore. ie most important thing that can say is that i believe in you. i believe in limited government. i believe that you can make decisions for yourself. i want the government to protect you from force and fraud,

performed constitutional duties, -- perform its constitutional duties, and otherwise leave you alone to live your life. moderator: mr. holcomb? mr. holcomb: each and every day i will serve as if i am looking through the taxpayer's window. i take the job very seriously. i also work wanted to be known that i would continue to be, strive to be the most acceptable governor in history. that is why i remain in perpetual motion and i've gone to the counties over and over again so that i know the issues. moderator: thank you mr. holcomb. finally, mr. gregg? mr. gregg: i would like voters to know that i have a pass in -- passion for indiana. that comes from traveling the to countlessking citizens. there is a detailed written plan

best forwhat is indiana, not ideology. and i can assure you as governor, i would be a uniter and i will never embarrass the citizens or the state of indiana. thank you, mr. gregg. gentlemen, thank you for being here, and thank you for just the tone and civility with which you have approached all of these debates. would you agree? [applause] >> thank you, thank you. >> thanks. moderator: thanks to all of you for watching and listening. special thanks to the university of southern indiana for hosting the debate, television stations of ie for producing the program, e for producing the program, and the league of women voters. we hope you further participate in the process by getting out to

vote for the candidate of your choice. good night. [applause] >> thank you. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] on election day, november 8, the nation besides the next president -- besides the next prez -- do you side the next es the next- decid president. follow key races. c-span, where history unfolds daily. bobby kennedy's last words before he got off of the stage were on to chicago. the next day, he was due to go to chicago and meet with richard daley. his assignment bill daley, she to barack obama, tells me that greaters a 70% or chance that his dad would've

endorsed bobby kennedy for president. >> author and former reporter "bobbyiscusses his book kennedy: the making of a liberal icon." >> if you have beaten richard nixon as i think you would have, america would be a different place. and some of the issues that we're revisiting today on racial tension and international discord might be a little bit different if we had tried to address them 50 years ago. >> sunday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span's "q&a." >> here is an article from the cook political report with democrats poised to pick up five or seven seats. jennifer duffy writes that republicans have been doing a solid job of maintaining distance from the presidential nominee donald trump running their own campaign focusing on local issues or issues that motivate the base.

was working fine and it looked as if republicans would be able to keep losses low, until october 7, when the washington post reported on the existence of the "access hollywood" they. -- tape. then things started to unravel slowly. you can read the entire report on cook political report online. two races listed as tossups are include new hampshire. more night we bring you a debate between marco rubio and patrick murphy in florida. thursday, a debate between republican new hampshire senator and her challenger. live from concorde, new hampshire at 8:00 eastern. c-span's "washington journal,"h