bonoff from the third district. thank you for coming in for this debate, which we really have more of a conversation here. thank you for coming in. senator bonoff, let's start with you. state sen. bonoff: i am running for congress because i believe in the promise of our country and its people. it is more important now than ever before that we elect courageous leaders who can bring people together on both sides of the aisle to tackle our real tough challenges. , in the minnesota senate, i have earned a reputation for doing that. as a pro-business democrat, i worked with the minnesota chamber to create the minnesota pipeline project. that program was about getting rid of student debt and addressing the skills gap. it connected students with employers. they got on the job training, get paid wages while getting their degree. when they are done, they have a job. that work has been written about twice in the last year by "forbes" magazine.

it is that kind of bold leadership i will bring to congress, where it is lacking. congressman paulsen, you have been there eight years and i think you have contributed to that gridlock. i also believe you have voted too often on the wrong side of history, with the extreme part of the right wing part of your party. so i believe i have the values and vision to represent this district. i was proud to be endorsed by ecm, the community newspapers. what they said when they endorsed me was that i represented real hope and change. so i have been a courageous leader in the business world, in the minnesota senate, and i would be that in washington. leah: thank you. representative paulsen? rep. paulsen: thank you for hosting the debate with kstp.

now is the time where minnesota expects elected leaders to work across the aisle bipartisanly. transcend partisan politics. i have a great track record of doing that. i will continue to do that. whether repealing the medical device tax, which focuses on keeping high paying jobs in the state, high paying jobs that are so critical in all of minnesota. i worked on that with senator klobuchar, and it took five years to get that across the finish line. so sometimes it can take a while. or something like stopping human trafficking -- we have been able to do that in less in a year. that is literally saving lives. recently, i passed the missing children bill which will help find missing children and put sex offenders behind bars. we are in a time with partisan gridlock and politics. i want to continue to be part of a constructive solution. it is one of the reasons i was

endorsed by the "minneapolis star tribune" recently and with business associations like twin chambers. i will continue to work in that mold. i am one of 34 members this year that had a bill signed by the president from either party in either body. that is what minnesota expects. i will continue to do that if i am reelected. leah: let's focus on the economy. the third district is home to a mix of industries. there are large corporations, small businesses, technology startups. what needs to be done to make sure that the third district specifically continues to create jobs and continues to be economically viable? rep. paulsen: there is no doubt our economy should be performing better than it is now. it is the worst economic recovery in the history of the country. we have record numbers of people working part-time that want to work full-time. we are in a growth gap now.

we have for the first time one third of folks aged 18 to 31 living at home with their parents. that is the biggest percentage in 40 years. and it is the first time during an economic recovery where we have literally had median income fall. we need tax reform. we needed to help international corporations do more competitiveness, bring jobs back home, earnings back home, keep headquarters here. it also means we need to help small businesses, which means lowering their business tax rates. terri has voted for a fourth tier income tax. when you have that that hits , small business hard. so we have a different view on fiscal issues. but tax reform is absolutely needed to help create more jobs in the local economy. state sen. bonoff: there is nothing more important, as i look at what the job of being a

congresswoman would be, then making sure we have a strong economy and grow jobs. minnesota has an impressive unemployment rate now. it is 3.7%. but that is not double story. there are those who have timed out after the recession and never got back into the job force. so we have to do all we can to ensure a strong economy. i think that the most important thing we can do looking long-term is look at the next generation. that is why i shared about my work with regards to the pipeline project. but small business is the engine of our economy. in the senate, that is what i focused on. i was the chief author of the angel investments start up tax credit. and also the r&d investment credit. and i worked with jennifer luna, a republican from your community in the house, to do equity crowdfunding. allowing young people in particular un-credited investors to be able to invest online, so startups have more access to

capital. but i believe we need to do significant tax reforms. we are blessed to have fortune 500 companies in our midst. we need to reform our tax code so they can bring their process es back. we need them to be able to repatriate their money. and your comment -- i have to address this about the fourth tier. the only tax i have voted for with regard to income taxes was back in 2009 when we had a constitutional obligation to balance the budget. it never happened. the governor proposed a fourth tier that became law. i was one of the few democrats that voted against that. because of that and several other votes i have taken, i have been endorsed in every reelection by the minnesota chamber, the twin west chamber. i have gotten the guardian a small business award each of my last reelections, including this past summer. i do not believe the answer is to increase the tax burden.

and the "star tribune" actually did say that in that endorsement. they said that congressman paulsen mischaracterized my record and i have a record of fiscal restraint. rep. paulsen: just to be clear, you did vote for a fourth tier income tax, a billion-dollar tax increase that would hit small businesses. this is a time when small businesses cannot afford to pay more. we have seen it in health care, which i am sure we will talk about. and every one of those business organizations have now endorsed my candidacy, because they understand the difference. i will continue to work across the aisle on bipartisan issues. state sen. bonoff: you purposely distort my record and bought a domain name called "taxing terri," which seems uncharacteristic of a congressman but kind of takes a page out of the playbook of donald trump, where you call people names. what i would say is i want everyone to know i did not vote for the recent tax increase. that when we were faced with a difficult choice -- how will we

close the budget gap, and we have a constitutional obligation to balance the budget, we had a choice. borrow from schools or raise taxes? we put out a bill that said we would raise taxes, the governor vetoed it. we ended up borrowing from schools. i did not vote for the tax that our communities are now experiencing. and i issued a bill or worked on a bill to exempt small businesses from that fourth year -- tier rate. i think it is a burden on small businesses. i think we have to take the burden away from small businesses. leah: let's talk about the medical device tax. congressman paulson, i know you have been supportive of suspending the medical device tax. but senator bonoff, what do you support for the future of the medical device tax check out -- device tax? state sen. bonoff: i support a permanent repeal. it is very important to our communities that that happens. i appreciate it.

i support congressman paulsen's leadership on that. but the bigger question is what is the future of the affordable care act and how will we pay for it? so i welcome getting into that discussion. leah: and what about you, representative? would you support a full repeal of the tax? rep. paulsen: absolutely. here is what has to happen next. it took five years to get across the finish line. the only reason we were able to get across the finish line is because of the bipartisan work and leadership i was able to do in the house. that prompted the senate and the entire minnesota delegation was on board. because this was such a bad policy, hurting patients and jobs in minnesota, we ended up with veto-proof margin, despite the president's objections, to get this across the finish line. now, we are seeing money back into research and development, it will help our patients and jobs. leah: let's dig into this more.

we have seen the cost of health insurance going up some 6% or -- 67%. governor dayton says affordable care act is not affordable anymore. representative paulsen, you voted to repeal the aca. what is the solution then? getting rid of the whole thing, making changes? what is the solution for health care for our country? rep. paulsen: we will have to start over. number one, you have a system now that has no competition. some states offer only one provider or carrier. so of course they will have skyrocketing insurance states. you may have some counties in minnesota not even able to offer insurance, which would be a disaster. this is a real crisis issue. you have to have insurance companies able to buy and sell across state lines, you need andcal liability reform, health insurance should be portable, so you take it with you. you do not have to rely on your employer, you should be able to take it with you like a backpack

in early stages of your life and take it with you throughout your life. and more chronic care management is the direction to go. terri voted for bringing obamacare to minnesota. it is a disaster. it is hurting minnesota families. i have never voted for obama care. we need to move forward. leah: explain where you stand. state sen. bonoff: erik has run tv commercials that said i voted for obamacare. that is kind of silly, because obamacare was done in congress. i am not in congress. so i did not vote for obamacare. so when the federal government mandated the states have the exchange and democrats had the reformed part, i voted no. the reason i did that is because i have a great relationship with

the companies in my district, the health industry companies. they showed me concerns about that. so i used the strength of a no vote to actually shape it. and it did get better. not all the way, for sure, but this increase in premiums, who i hold accountable is congress. the reason i do is because, erik, you voted over 60 times to repeal the affordable care act. you had eight years to reform that. it is fine now that you are feeling the pressure of what is happening in this race to say all the things you would do. but 60 times to repeal, when you could have offered significant reforms to this thing. it is good to repeal the medical device tax. but where were you on telling the federal government they should negotiate drug prices, on making sure that republicans and democrats came together and made real reforms? it reminds me of when the federal government says

everybody deserves a high quality, equal education, and we all agree with that, and the fed says they will pay for that then do not follow through. your lack of accountability with actually reforming this has put the burden back on the states. so now the states should have a special session and should buy down premiums and do whatever it is to take the hurt away from families. but we should hold congress leaders accountable for the mess we find ourselves in. rep. paulsen: just to be clear, if people remember when the affordable care act was put into place, you had the president who wanted to do it all his way. he did not want bipartisanship. nancy pelosi said that you had to pass the bill to find out what was in it. you are promised to be able to keep your health care and keep your doctor. we found that was not true. i can tell you stories of cancer patients who had relinquished their network of doctors. it is a tragic situation. at the same time, you voted on a party vote to give mnsure here.

it has been an absolute disaster. now we have people losing their doctors. we need to fix that and move in a different direction. state sen. bonoff: you start off by saying what president obama said when it was passed. that was eight years ago. i know leaders in the u.s. senate said that the most important thing they could do for the next four years is make sure barack obama did not have a second term. really, that is an abdication of duty. what should be the most important thing now and always is everything we can do to put the american people first. it is not ok to say, eight years later, that now you would take all of these actions to reform it. because people are hurting. i needed you to solve this problem. for example, small businesses, if we could give them pretax dollars, so they do not have to administer it, then you could send healthy people to the exchanges. that would help expand the pool, bring the cost down.

and, like you are saying, that would allow portability. if you could drive people into the individual market, now you have competition and folks who want to be in that market. there are solutions. if i am in congress, i promise i will work with whoever is there, republicans or democrats, just like i have done in the senate, and i would do that to make real change. leah: let's talk about who may be in washington, d.c. according to our kstp poll, voters in the district favor hillary clinton 48% to 35% over donald trump. 16% are going for a third-party candidate or are undecided. senator bonoff, you and other organizations have been running ads talking about how representative paulsen has been supporting donald trump. representative you have gone on , to say you are no longer supporting donald trump. is that fair to continue to say that he is supporting trump when

he has said he is not? state sen. bonoff: i have no control over what outside groups do. for example, i changed an ad to say "supported" because he has disavowed him. i want to talk about why i have connected erik paulsen to donald trump. that is a fair question. donald trump's candidacy poses a real threat to our country. the way he has campaigned has reminded me of very dark times in our world history. when dictators have come to the forefront. they would not have been able to do that if people had stood up and said "this is unacceptable." so i, partly, got into the race to tell the public because i was not hearing that from my congressman that i think donald trump poses a danger and threat to america. putting that aside. record, i believe your

votes reflect, in some ways, where donald trump stands. for example, you are not pro-choice, which is a personal choice, but you are a leader in wanting to defund planned parenthood. i saw a letter sent to president obama that you are one of the signers calling roe v. wade a tragedy. and our district rejected the gay marriage ban. and i came back as a co-author on the freedom to marry bill. but you got an award to put that ban into the constitution. i know of donald trump's stance with the nra. you have an "a-" rating and voted 26 times to not even bring up gun violence prevention issues. and have done nothing on climate change. it is not about donald trump, it is that you are on the wrong side of history on too many votes and vote with the right wing of your party. rep. paulsen: just to be clear, i never endorsed donald trump. i was expecting to hopefully vote for the nominee and said he would have to earn my vote when

he became the nominee. i have said since that he cannot earn my vote. i endorsed marco rubio. i am the only one who has not endorsed either candidate running. we have 2 deeply flawed candidates running. unfortunately. that is the case. a lot of the issues that terri brought up -- folks know i focus on issues where we have bipartisan support, where there is consensus. she wants to talk about divisive issues -- i think people are tired of single issue politics. i will continue to have my track record and focus on coming together. leah: do you want to publicly support a candidate? rep. paulsen: i supported marco rubio and will likely write him in. i will say that terri had the opportunity to make sure that all of those organizations that came in and associated me with donald trump, she had the opportunity to say that we do not want those ads and refused to do that. we have the ability to keep

negative campaign money out of minnesota, but here it is, unfortunately. state sen. bonoff: what he is talking about is he offered me a pledge keep everyone outside. i said let's do that and let's then, given you have already raised several million dollars and i just got into the race, have you give back all of your special interest pac money, and then it would be a level playing field. i was happy to take that pledge because you had something like 60% of your donations were from special interest pacs. you would obviously have a head start, but it would have been level. i want to go back to what he said about divisive wedge issues. we had a sandy hook shooting, where 20 children lost their lives. this is not a divisive wedge. we have not addressed gun violence prevention, when we have tragedy after tragedy. i don't think this is about a divisive wedge issue. this is about putting the people first and making common sense gun violence prevention laws. and, in regards to women's choice, when you have a

republican party platform that says they want to roll back roe v. wade, that is not divisive, it is demeaning to women. i look at everything i do through the lens of is it good for kids, is it good for our state and nation, and will it build stronger jobs and strengthen our economy. talking about overturning roe v. wade is not something the next generation of women have much interest in. i don't think that is a divisive issue, it is being a responsible leader. and with regard to your vote for rubio, we have a law that says, unless someone has requested to be a write in candidate, it is not counted. so as a leader, we have choices. what is right, what is wrong. in this particular case, there are just two choices. you talk to any young person, they will say hillary clinton or donald trump. if you want to throw your vote away, i do not call that courageous leadership.

rep. paulsen: you talk to any person, they will say they are not happy with either candidate. and you never throw your vote away. when you vote and send a statement. and there is no bigger interest than nancy pelosi's special interest pack. they have run ads that have proven to have a d or d minus rating. state sen. bonoff: your ad against me right away said i was tax -- butd tax and i want to go back. he took a sentence i said in a debate, and that was the theme of your commercial. it was "when the bridge collapsed." obviously one of the greatest tragedies our state has had. i during that time was a leader to bring people together to invest in transportation. and the deputy commissioner, who lives in prairie, has endorsed my candidacy because of the

leadership role i played when that bridge collapsed. that is what i was talking about, when you put it out of context in your ad. even the television stations said that you distorted my record and took my words out of context. and you did not vote for the transportation bill when the bridge collapsed. that points to you being on the wrong side of history in regards to your vote. we owe it to the people of our state to invest in infrastructure. rep. paulsen: i agree, and i did not vote for that gas tax increase or the sales tax increase or income tax increase you did. but i voted for a five-year federal transportation bill now in place. for the first time in a decade, we have a long-term highway bill. it is a five-year bill. it started one year ago. there are four more years to go. it is fully funded. the whole delegation was on board and supported it. leah: let's talk more about transportation. what is your big priority for a

long-term transportation bill? we know it is important, especially in minnesota. state sen. bonoff: there is nothing changing faster than our transportation system and infrastructure needs. because, you know it is a game , changer. you have 3m working on signs that talk to our cars. you have this movement on driverless cars. we need to modernize our infrastructure. it is one thing to make sure it is safe. we certainly owe that to the next generation. we also have to take into account changing technology and make sure that we are doing all we can to keep up in this exciting time. i think cars are going to be more efficient. the gas tax will be outdated quickly. we have to be creative, we have to be innovative, and we have to listen to the experts. but i will not abdicate my responsibility. and the last thing on transportation is i know young people, the millennials -- i

-- who we want to have stayed here. 2 in d.c., ones , in l.a. they want comprehensive transit. that is why i supported the light rail. our country needs to modernize our approach to transportation. leah: we only have a few minutes left. can we move on to another topic? rep. paulsen: real quick, transportation infrastructure is critical to our economy and a critical for our jobs and for moving people. we had the highway 610 opening, just recently very bipartisan. , but where we should go is looking at using energy royalties. there is not a lot of support for increasing the gas tax. we should look at energy royalties and put that number into infrastructure and transportation. that is the long-term plan i would like to see happen. tim walz and i have talked about that. state sen. bonoff: energy

royalties because people do not know what that is, it is if you drill for oil on federal land or for natural gas, then the royalties that go to the fed would support transportation. that is not a very reliable, sustainable plan. rep. paulsen: it is reliable in the largest investment in the transportation infrastructure in the history of the country. leah: we have three minutes left. we have to touch on national security. we had an isis-inspired attack at the mall in st. cloud, minnesota. it is a real issue right here in minnesota. minnesotans are even traveling to join isis. so let's focus on this. what needs to be done on the federal level to stop attacks here at home in minnesota and abroad as well? state sen. bonoff: the radicalization and endoctrination of terror, particularly for young people, is a grave danger. they are getting that on the internet, through social media. we have to do all we can to root out terror everywhere it is.

we talk about it at home, but you also have to address it in syria where you have the greatest threat of isis. we are now arming the rebels in syria, doing everything we can to root out isis. there has been some progress in mosul. we have to partner with allies around the globe so we use our intelligence capabilities to find out where the terror cells are. then we use that information to make sure that we are addressing that in our communities. and really, one of the great problems is that, many times, those allies around the world are not sure they trust us. for example, there are muslim majority countries like qatar and indonesia. so it is not helpful when you have what donald trump is saying about not letting muslims into our country.

we have to be careful to keep the doors of communication open so we can partner with allies and make sure we root out the threat of terror everywhere. rep. paulsen: we have no greater duty than to protect the homeland and our citizens. that is key. we have had more incidents here domestically with terrorism. it is appropriate we review and make sure our vetting process is appropriate for refugees, no matter where they are coming from. whether it is syria or anywhere else. we have to understand islamist fundamentalism for what it is, call it what it is. work with our law enforcement agencies, especially in minnesota where we have identified situations where folks have been sentenced but then travel back to somalia. we need to be aware of that because there is no doubt those threats will continue to be real. we have lacked leadership at the top. we need to get your take and understand that isis, the threat is real. state sen. bonoff: one of the things we did not talk about is climate change. i want the voters to know that

because i have not said anything about that i believe it is , urgent and real. i would take action on that and am proud to have been endorsed by the league of conservation voters and the sierra club. >> we have 15 seconds left. rep. paulsen: clean energy and new development of cleaner energy is the direction to go as we look for nuclear and biofuel and wind and solar. leah: thank you both for joining us. we hope to see you back here. >> watch bill lunn and leah mclean. this week on c-span two, we are featuring political radio programs with national talkshow host. on thursday from noon until 3:00, tom hartman. from 9:00 a.m. on tilde, a conservative perspective on the mike gallagher show live from new york city. all this week, live on c-span 2. as the nation elects a new

president on tuesday, will america have its first foreign-born first lady since louisa adams, where will we have the first gentleman? learn more. americans as" gives look into the impact of all the first ladies in american history. it features interviews for the nations leading first ladies from historians. it offers brief biographies of 45 presidential spouses and photos on their lives. in paperback is now available at your favorite bookseller and as an e-book. >> our coverage of state races continues tonight with the candidates in the louisiana u.s. senate race, including republican congressman charles boustany.g --

a u.s. senate debate in new hampshire between kelly ayotte and her democratic challenger current governor maggie hassan, we have that at 9:00 p.m. more about that race, starting with some ads running in the state. months of degrading women and vulgar insults. kelly ayotte supported donald trump through all of it, even calling him a role model. now she calls him the opposite. the political calculation. what else has she done to get reelected? she has voted with the koch brothers 90% of the time. what isotte, doing right for herself is wrong for new hampshire. >> i caps on, and i approve this message. >> an investigation into hillary

clinton is back on. >> new e-mails discovered. >> a political firestorm. >> do you think she is honest and trustworthy? >> i support hillary clinton for the presidency. >> do you think she is honest? >> reopening an investigation that was closed. >> but do you think she is trustworthy? hassan, newie hampshire has a clear choice. do we keep going with a senator who keeps voting with corporate interests or a new senator that fights for the people of new hampshire? my focus has always been on creating opportunities and making college and job training more portable and lowering prescription drug costs and supporting a woman's right to make her own health care decisions. this is why i support this message and ask for your vote. >> maggie hassan supports the

health care law that is hurting new hampshire families. >> our costs have gone up 37%. >> we are paying more than ever. >> i'm unable to afford insurance. >> maggie hassan cannot stand up to her party. even bill clinton called it -- >> the craziest thing in the world. >> i trust kelly ayotte to put hampshire first. >> i approve this message. >> tuesday night's results in the new hampshire senate race could be an early indicator of which party controls the u.s. senate in 2017. james pindell is following this story for the "boston globe." >> thank you for having me. >> this race between kelly ayotte and maggie hassan, when they entered the race, it was almost that even. it seems to have been the same ever since. >> there have been a lot of twists and turns. there has been one constant, the

race remains tied. it was time when it began there have been outlier polls showing by outside ofup the margin of error or the other. 50 or 60 poles over the course of the last year shows the race still tied not matter what has happened. >> what issues are driving voters in new hampshire? what are they talking about? >> there are three different ideas in this campaign, which is made of hard for voters to discern who they should vote for. first has been the presidential race. in every single debate, and you saw it wednesday night, the topic of donald trump and hillary clinton and their unpopularity is something that gets brought up again and again. these candidates, it has been hard to walk that line. maggie hassan, the democratic

governor has messed up on national tv on how she answers if hillary clinton is trustworthy. kelly ayotte has been almost a national storyline and how she tries to thread the needle in supporting donald trump for not endorsing him, which means she would vote for him but because he is not content. after the access hollywood tape, she walked that fact and said she would write in mike pence. been payinghave close attention to national politics. new hampshire is in the midst of a drug crisis and mobile you epidemic. both of them have talked about the issue incessantly, showing that there knowledgeable and deeply engaged. for voters, i'm not sure there is any indication of what they are supposed to do about it. there is not a disagreement on how they will address the problem. it is just that they can talk

about it confidently. the third point is that this idea of who is more bipartisan. you have independent voters outnumbering those who are republican or democrat. they're making their final losing arguments that they can work across -- their final closing arguments that they can work across the line. >> as you indicated, kelly ayotte has been a case study in how you can distance yourself from an unpopular candidate in some circles and still try to maintain the donald trump motor in her base. how is she doing? >> a case study for good in some lakes and that in some lakes -- in some weeks. without we would say, this is the moment where there will be

backlash, where she can grab opportunity among independent voters who are not with outcome. gave us a clear answer and that they did not make any difference whatsoever. she maintained the exact same position where she was among republicans, including among republican men which has been the best demographic for donald trump in the state. she did not gain among independents either. nothing has really moved the needle. this may simply be a matter of who has the best ground game. >> when the results coming in tuesday night, what part of the state will you be looking at and what will determine who will win this race? >> a lot of people will be looking at partisan turnout. if you are kelly ayotte, you turnout inrepublican the southern portions of the state near massachusetts.

if you are maggie hassan, you need to drive turnout along the durham. near main and you need to do well in those areas to drive out the base. this race may all come down to kelly ayotte's hometown of nashua. it is the second-largest city in the state. it is the swingiest city and the state. vote of voters in their differently one year to the next. that could decide it. >> have newspaper endorsements helped? >> they are waning influence here as everywhere else. kelly ayotte has been getting some more liberal newspapers endorsing her. saying she is a more moderate voice. other papers have endorsed my caps on. it has been -- maggie hassan.

it has been an even split. >> thank you for being with us. >> thank you. day, november 8, the nation decides our next president and which party controls the house and senate. coverage ofspan or the presidential race, including campaign stops with hillary clinton, donald trump, and there circuits. tes.heir surroga c-span, where history unfolds daily. c-span, where history unfolds daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. up next on c-span, louisiana's u.s. senate candides