in any case, the point i think is that it is important to have these kinds of dialogues and discussions. the fact that so much of this discussion -- i remember when i was a kid, i watched william f buckley's show with my dad, who was a republican. we would argue politics. -- buckley would have liberals on. they would have discussions. we don't do that anymore, we have dueling bumper stickers. even the ones who pretend to do that, it is dueling bumper stickers, it is not digging into the issues. i'm trying to get back to that time -- not to that time so much, but back to that ideal that we really need to be well-informed, to understand the worldview and perspective of both sides.

or if there are three or four sides, all of them. >> we have one minute. thom: let people make up their own mind. that is the goal of our show. we have a little less than a minute before we start so i'm going to check the news one more time. i will be right back. we also have a live chat room which is free and has no advertising on our website, and i check in with the chat room, there are a bunch of people who comment and it gives some instant feedback which is useful. >> we have a report coming in here. thom: thank you. sue who runs the chat room is in

england and she set the clocks have already changed. ♪ >> all the important stories we cover and the issues we care tmannreport.com. members of the community can comment and join the conversation. thom: tom hartmann here, speaking the truth about multinational corporations. where did my mouth go, there is. mary in georgia, what is on your mind? caller: i have seen mr. baxter's first film six times. i took notes. there are three things i wanted to bring to people who have not seen it. first of all, you have never seen an uglier american than donald trump was to those people in scotland, who he basically destroyed their lives and homes

and then kicked their interface -- kicked dirt in their faces. he was an ugly american. he didn't get permission from the local people to destroy the dunes, which was ecologically protected. he would -- went over their heads to the state of scotland. the british and scottish government, i am not really sure, but i know there are scottish representatives in british parliament. thom: that has changed over the last decade or two, that relationship. caller: because of the film, there were 593 people signing a petition in great britain to ban donald trump from their country. it was on c-span last fall. they had hearings about it, and most of these representatives said, we can just ridicule him, like that would do any good.

the other thing about this film, trump made promises to representatives from scotland that he would create 6000 jobs, it would bring millions of dollars to your economy, everything will be wonderful, you know how he hypes everything. but it has not happened. there is a law on the books in this country and in great britain, i can't remember what it is named in great britain, but here it is called the foreign corrupt practices act, and what it says is you cannot bribe officials of foreign governments to do business with you. you cannot say, i will create 6000 jobs and then not produce them, otherwise the people, i think the three families coulded in the film, they bring a complaint to the united states department of justice. thom: perhaps.

there is a difference between lying and bribing. you are right, the foreign and corrupt practices act makes it a crime to bribe foreign actors to do business, but lying to people -- and frankly, i cannot say, i have not seen the movie and i'm not that familiar with it, i cannot say absolutely he lied to them, maybe he planned to build a hotel that would have had those jobs and circumstances changed, but i get it that it is a good movie and worth seeing. do not forget, the website is trumpedfilm.com. thank you for the call. caller in new jersey, watching us on c-span. caller: thank you for taking my call. the reason i am calling has to do with health care. i worked for 30 years in the pharmaceutical industry and i

was a director of regulatory affairs dealing with the fda. i wanted everybody to know, because i used to be part of putting in the drug applications to the fda, most of our drugs are made in foreign countries, and the only thing they do is to put a different package on it, so when congress and the fda come out and say you cannot import drugs because they are cheaper, because of safety reasons, it is nonsense. thom: the vast majority of drugs sold in the united states are made in china, india or europe. caller: not even in europe. france was the last country that produced aspirin. all of the aspirin you buying this country is made in china, there is not one single producer anymore that makes aspirin. and so it goes for most countries.

in india, there are several large companies, pharmaceutical companies, and they are still selling stuff over here. they send consultants over there to supervise everything because they have been lying about test results and all of these things. the only thing that stops us from importing drugs from other countries is because they don't want the prices to drop here. thom: thank you so much for sharing your experience with us. it is brilliant. i used to live in vermont, in montpelier, about 7000 people. it is the state capital. bernie sanders, this was back in 1998, he was our member of the house of representatives, and he organized these buses. every saturday downtown there would be this bus, and you would

see mostly older people getting on these buses. i was like, what the hell is the bus thing? , montpelier is two hours south of montreal, and they were driving up to montreal to buy their pharmaceuticals, because it was illegal to ship them. but if you went there you could buy them. you had a u.s. congressman organizing this. they were so much cheaper there. as you correctly point out, they are the same drugs. the exact same drugs. this is a scam. it is a scam that is done at law, the law is providing -- this is a government monopoly essentially. the pharmaceutical companies have bought politicians. from george washington until 1976, giving money to a politician to try and influence

their vote was considered bribery or at least a behavior that could be regulated. in 1971, lewis powell wrote a memo to the chamber of commerce saying, we have to change this and take over all of these things, take over the schools and universities, take over the political system and whatnot because american business is under assault from ralph nader and rachel carson. in 1972 he was put on the supreme court, and in 1976 he authored this decision that giving money to politicians is not a behavior, it is a speech. i have some money in my pocket, i am not hearing it saying anything, but according to the conservatives on the court, it is and therefore you cannot regulate it anymore. you cannot get a restaurant in washington, d.c. on a weeknight when congress is in session.

there is so much money in this town. the best investment right now that fortune 500 companies are making right now is buying politicians. you get a 10,000 to one return. margie in wisconsin. caller: hello. my ex-husband would be alive today if he had health insurance. thom: who is this? caller: my ex-husband. he lost his job during the recession, and he lost his health insurance. he was living with friends of mine. he had been feeling not well for about a week and a half but he did not have insurance so we could not go to a doctor, but it was not an emergency so he could not go to the er. one night, he had a massive

coronary and my friend performed cpr until the ambulance got there. by the time the ambulance got there, he was dead. thom: i'm so sorry to hear that. and a week and a half of not feeling well, those are the early warning signs. caller: exactly. if you been able to go to a doctor, he would probably still be alive today. thom: but if your house had been on fire, the government would have shown up with a fire truck to put it out. but if your husband's body was on fire metaphorically, forget him. the old ron paul, let him die. thank you for sharing your story with us. my condolences. i'm so sorry to hear about your husband. kurt in los angeles, what is on your mind? caller: it is always good to listen to your show. if the content of this

discussion was not so serious, it would be funny when you have your exchange with scotty nell hughes. it harkens me back to the old abbott and costello, who was on first. no matter how many facts you gave her, she could not find a way to connect with what you were saying and continued along her train of thought, it has to have been brainwashing. thom: one of the policies i have on the show is that i don't trash people when they are not here to defend themselves. so let's not talk about her, let's talk about the issue. caller: the issue is -- congressman alan grayson, he articulated it better than i ever could, so if you have an

opportunity to look up his if you get sick, die quickly speech. thom: i remember it well, he has been on the program many times. he said, here is the republican health plan, number one, don't get sick, and number two, if you do get sick, die quickly. that is the republican health care plan. kurt, thank you for the call. hi, darlene. thank you for listening. caller: i was calling regarding medical insurance. in 1972i bought a private policy and it had its guidelines and everything, which was fine. and when i was about to retire, i figured i will not be able to keep that insurance any longer because i would be going on medicare, so i started paying it every three months for the last

two periods -- to wind down, and then i would be on medicare. when i sent the first quarter in, they did not say anything. when i sent the second quarter in, they called me and asked if there was a problem, because i have been paying every six months. so when i told him it was because i was going to go on medicare, and this was a private policy and i didn't take it keep it. you? did they dump to flip you over to medicare advantage? i am sorry, we are out of time. >> visit thom hartmann.com for audio archives. advanced to callers to get to the point quickly.

♪ thom: welcome back. bob in new york. what is on your mind? caller: we are really thankful for the affordable care act. my wife was recently diagnosed with breast cancer and she was able to get treatments. you mentioned in the past how expensive it can be. i don't know what would do without it. i would like to explain how the congress and senate and president get their health insurance. who pays for it and what does it cost? i'm going to hang up now so you can take other calls, but if you could address that, it would be great. thom: my understanding, and thanks for the call, is that prior to the institution of the

affordable care act, they basically had an employer-based insurance policy where the federal government -- there were a bunch of insurance companies and you could pick one that the federal government contracted with, and they were pretty good policies. they were high-quality policies. i believe that during the aca negotiations, the republicans put in a thing because they were convinced it would be terrible, that members of congress had to buy their health insurance on the exchanges. i'm not sure if that stuck or if it is still the law. victoria jones will be reporting the nose -- news, maybe she knows. basically, they have employer-provided health insurance. at the senior level, the

president and vice president, i don't know about the cabinet, but the president and vice president, they are basically in the military program. they go to walter reed, it is a separate thing, they are treated as if they were generals. i don't know if that is because the president is the commander-in-chief of the military or what the rationale is, but he has very, very good health care. in fact, whenever there is a motorcade the goes flying down the streets here, the last car is an ambulance just in case. that is all i know about that, we will see if anybody else knows anything. doris in colorado. what is on your mind? caller: about the employer-based health care. it is just the same thing as a private insurance corporation. they are paying into it for you. the company i work for has been doing this for years and my

insurance is through a private corporation. that is another reason why we need single-payer. companies cannot come to this country and set up their factories, offices, what ever without factoring in the cost of health care. thom: i think it was toyota, we talked about this yesterday, that had been planning to build an auto factory in the united states because they had a large north american market and they were negotiating with three different states that were offering them incentives, and they ultimately decided to move to windsor in toronto because they said there was $2400 built into doing business in the united states and in canada it was zero.

doris, thank you for your call. we will be right back. ♪ thom: let's check in with talk media news. this report brought to you by goats for the old goat. it is a charity and south sudan, it is a great thing. on the line, victoria jones. what is going on in the world today? victoria: president obama is campaigning in miami for hillary clinton and he is talking about obamacare.

he is hitting congressional republicans and then he was poking fun at donald trump who recently said he was going to go for a special session of congress to repeal and replace it. he said, what you realize if is they have no plan. they want to repeal because ideologically they are opposed the idea, but it isn't like they don't have a pretense of a plan, they don't have a semblance of a plan, there is not even a hint of a plan. there is no plan. thom: has he pointed out the at marco rubio was the author of the writer -- rider in the budget bill last year that did away with the risk corridors that ensured that would raise their rates this year? because if he is in florida,

people should know, if your health insurance prices are going up, marco rubio is a large part of the reason why. victoria: interesting, no i don't think he went there. he also went to florida international university and was saying that donald trump would abuse his presidential power. he was also saying that people should vote early and gave them the address of the polling place. they can go right now. hillary clinton is going to cap her campaign with a big line up at a final rally in philadelphia. she will be joined by former president bill clinton, chelsea clinton, president obama and michelle obama. hillary clinton and president obama will both speak that night. pennsylvania senator bob casey generalng on attorney lynch and the department of justice to ensure every

american's right to vote is protected after reports of white nationalists planning to intimidate people at the polls on tuesday in an effort to suppress the minority vote. this is after a report in "politico" that thousands of poll watchers are being rounded up across all 50 states and they are partnered with the -- an alt-right website. thom: remember in 2003, there were three black eyes in philadelphia who showed up at a polling place with a stick, they were just three guys. they did not do anything or views anybody. fox newsfilmed it and for the last eight years have been hysterical about it. three guys. and now we are talking about thousands, tens of thousands of white guys showing up at the polls in mostly minority

neighborhoods with badges and an organized effort. are they as hysterical about that at fox? victoria: i don't think they're talking about that, they are talking about the clinton foundation. thom: you watch fox so i don't have to. thank you. [laughter] i watch very little television, actually. the fbi has begun the process of opening an investigation into one of its own twitter accounts that was quiet for over year and then released a bunch of documents of political impact this week. they referred the matter to the bureau's inspections division. thom: did james comey have anything to do with that? victoria: nobody knows who had anything to do with it. it is like what is up with this? thom: that is not a good thing. victoria: is there something up?

they are looking into it. the interesting vote in the u.k. this morning by the high court. the high court said, you cannot just brexit. thom: really? victoria: yes. thom: on what basis? victoria: they ruled parliament must vote on the decision and that the government, two different things, cannot just trigger brexit with article 50. thom: the people's referendum is not enough under the -- england doesn't have a constitution. under common law? victoria: it has an unwritten constitution, and what the court ruled is that it would be unlawful for the prime minister to send the article 50 notification without an act of parliament. thom: you are a pretty good observer of u.k. politics.

do you think parliament will vote as the people did? victoria: theresa may has appealed and it is going to the supreme court, a relatively new institution with 11 justices, and will sit in early december. all 11 have never sat before. it is a huge thing. they will hear the argument. it is a major deal. thom: it really is. victoria jones with talk media news. thanks for the update. we will be back right after this. ♪ >> all this week we've been providing coverage of political talk shows. on friday we wrap up with the mike gallagher show at 9:00 a.m. eastern time. election night on c-span.

watch the results and be part of a national conversation about the outcome. the campaignof headquarters and watch acceptance and concession speeches in key races beard watch live on c-span, on demand at c-span.org or listen to our live coverage using our radio app. >> this morning on "washington journal" we talked about voter turnout. andra gillespie from emory university. talking about african-american voter turnout. let me show you the headline in the financial times. president obama rallying cry to black voters as polls show trump

making gains. president obama on the trail yesterday talking to african-american voters, saying they need to get out and vote. the title -- the headline below the one i read says there are fears a low turnout. can you speak to that? guest: the fear is making gains among african-american voters, although he says he is. the concern is that african-americans are not going to be the buffer against increased enthusiasm among trump voters who think he has a shot of winning. the democrats need to get as many votes as possible out. given the fact african-americans typically vote at a rate of 90% or higher, the democratic -- four democratic presidential candidates, they need them to get out and vote presumably because they will vote democratic. host: the you agree with this headline. blacks cannot muster fervor for hillary clinton. is it they are not enthusiastic

about the head of the democratic ticket? ofst: there are a number reasons that mice find a low voter turnout we have observed so far. i think it's important to put it into context. it is not so much it is low voter turnout as it is lower voter turnout than record turnout in 2012. putting this into a bit of perspective, right now about 31% of ballots that in cast of my state of georgia have been cast by african-americans. that is one percentage point behind the overall african-american state of -- population in the state of georgia is. 30% of voters in georgia are african-americans. they are slightly ahead of proportionality in terms of turnout. at this .4 years ago 36% of the ballots cast had been cast by african-american voters. host: the center for political and economic studies did a study in 2016 on enthusiasm.

what are some of the issues? one of the issues is looking at the turnout of millennial voters, particularly those aged 18 to 29. that group was far less likely than their older counterparts the city definitely plan on voting. there is much more uncertainty about voting. there is a may vote or they are not going to vote. democrats in particular, if they want to win, they need to target a particular demographic. one of the other differences we saw was there are differences in terms of how younger and older voters perceive their vote for clinton in face -- if they decide to vote for her for president. younger voters are voting against donald trump. the question we would ask is whether or not voting against donald trump is a strong motivation. then there are substantive issues that came up.

one of the reasons why hillary clinton is doing relatively poorly among young african-american voters in terms of enthusiasm is that she had issues in the 1990's with supporting policies that young black people today, particularly those connected with the black lives matter movement contribute to the rise of the prison industrial complex in the united states today. she may not have done enough to convince african-americans she is really going to take these issues to heart and she will be a champion of those issues. is not just a typical politician coming around because she needs their vote and she will ignore them for the next couple of years until the next election comes around. host: what does that sentiment have to do with -- is a reflection of president obama's tenure? guest: in some ways it is. there were high hopes for the obama presidency. perhaps the sentiments were too strong and people were projecting way too much in

thinking president obama could do more than he actually was able to do. now people have seen the limits of a presidential power can do. they are turned off to it and somewhat disappointed if it up residence could completely change everything. we have seen presidents cannot change everything. what you are seeing younger people do this focusing on protests. protests can help dominate the news cycle and generate action on behalf of policymakers. some are focusing on local races, realizing the issues that are important to african-americans are decided at the local level before there is federal intervention. vendor is the general notion that politicians don't really care about what people think and it doesn't really matter which party is in office he goes you get the same type of policy outcomes. the democrats really need to work to try to spell -- provide stark contrast. not just that the other candidate is racist, to provide a affirmative vision of what

they plan to do and how they seek to engage african-american communities after all the votes and counted. host: we want to show some of the average happening by donald trump and hillary clinton. let's get to some calls first. democrats, republicans, independents, third-party support. go ahead. caller: i was watching the program. the problem i see with a lot of ehe black youth is they ar pulling away from what's going on in politics. it is happening with the younger voters all over. -- people are pushing religion nowadays, especially in black churches in the south. i am surprised we don't have will republican support and we have. a younger voters just don't seem to have much use for trump or hillary. 65 years old is what i am. i took a look at it to me a week

to vote for president. it sat on my table for a week with hillary's name and trump's name. at 605i couldn't make up my mind for a week because in my heart i'm a republican because i believe in it. but the democrat running this year is not my favorite either. i had a vote for the worst candidate i have ever voted for in my life had 65. i think part of our problem in the youth today is we are not --cating them on the process all of our political stuff in school. we no longer have civics with a learned the legislative branch does, what the executive branch does. lives matterlack movement somewhat helps, but when you start burning things, it does not help.

host: that's a lot for andra gillespie to respond to. let's talk about millennials first. guest: one thing to keep in mind with millennials if this is a letter of lifecycles and go to lower rates than their older counterparts. is largely a function of education. it's not just book knowledge of how government works. there was the life experience that comes along with it. even if some of you doesn't have a formal education, the older they have been in the longer they have been around, the more they can navigate the system and understand how politics directly affects them. it is not surprising young people regardless of the background would have a more jaundiced evil politics because they don't understand it or have not experienced it as much. is the question for those that are older to whether or not people lock along -- walk alongside them and show them the process. for many people sitting out a process that are younger and thinking thinking use their non-vote as a way to leverage

the system, that has the potential to backfire on them. that are pollock -- there are politics that think they will not vote in the first place. those other kind of messages that rallies can get out to people and phone bankers can use to try to convince people of the importance of voting, even if you don't have the ideal candidate. host: jay in austin, texas. caller: how are you? host: good morning. caller: my concern first of all as an african-american and partly in response to the previous comment is that, yes, there is general lack of information relating to the democratic process. but we can see that also in the media, especially for the young media. and some of our political candidates and especially donald trump. relatively andam enthusiastic -- an enthusiastic

supporter of hillary clinton. i would also say as a protestant and is a baptist i have no concern about supporting hillary clinton. host: can i ask you a question? does it help that president obama and the first lady have been stumping for hillary clinton and saying you need to vote for her? she shares the same values that we do. caller: i would support her regardless. barrac andtely a michelle obama enthusiastk. i have also followed the issues. i am not impressed with donald trump. because a character issues and .ack of information

and absolutely because of his lack of knowledge relating to the political system. he is not at all democratic, nor many of the people you have had people calling and throughout the evening. host: andra? caller: one of the things interesting about the respective she brings to the table is it raises the important of -- especially in the last weekend of the campaign. both campaigns should identify their supporters and amassed enough voters that they believe if they get all the people out to the polls, they can win it recent or a district or state. what needs to be done in terms of reaching out to african-american voters is to talk to them personally. i think it is great that jay-z will doing concert for her benefit this weekend, but what is more important is there was an army of volunteers dispatched throughout the communities

making personal phone calls and knocking on doors to talk to voters to make sure they turn out to vote. we know that is the best way to drive out turnout. ultimately rallies do not vote. we have seen evidence that the clinton campaign is using rallies in unique ways to get people to go directly to early voting. from what i understand from the jay-z concert, the ticket pickup places are near early voting center so people can be encouraged to take up their ticket to go see jay-z and then go vote right next door. those things are really important. that matters much more than the stump speech. host: let's listen to the case donald trump made when he was asked to make a pitch to african-americans. [video clip] donald trump: you're living in poverty, you have no jobs. 58% of your youth is unemployed.

what the hell do you have to lose? [cheers] and at the end of four years i guarantee you that i will get over 95% of the african-american vote. i promise you. [cheers] produce for the inner cities. i will produce for the african-americans. and the democrats will not produce. all they have done is taken advantage of your vote. that is all they have done. once the election is over they go back to their palaces in washington. they do nothing for you. just remember it. host: that was donald trump recently. professor, i wanted have our listeners listen to the radio ad that the clinton campaign released in some key states.

it is called disrespect. >> donald trump openly mocks the african-american community. donald trump: african-americans are living in hell. listen to how he talks about us >>. donald trump: i have a great relationship with the blacks. >> trump has repeatedly disrespected president obama. president obama has been the most ignorant president in our history. >> so while donald trump spent his career to meeting our community, hillary clinton spent hers fighting for us. hillary clinton: we cannot get to where we need to be unless we move forward together and stand up against paranoia and prejudice. i believe we are stronger together. >> it is almost time to vote in pennsylvania. find out where to vote at iwillvote.com. hillary clinton: ion hillary clinton and i approve this message. host: professor gillespie,

candidates are seeing what you found out in your survey. black clinton supporters are voting for her. 39% said they are voting for her. 51% said they are voting against donald trump. could it be both these camps are looking at those numbers? guest: sure, and they should be. donald trump's notion he could turn on african-american votes so they would vote 95% republican and four years is pretty wishful thinking. secular realignments like that don't happen that quickly. to tap into this notion of democratic electoral capture. he recognizes and republicans recognize there is a tension between african-americans and the democratic party. what the platform doesn't completely aligned with the views of african-americans, but because ideologically speaking it is closer to the democratic

party than it is the republican party, the majority of african americans will cast their lot with the democratic party. he wants to tap into the tension that african-americans get ignored and once the sake you should give republicans a chance if you want to see policy differences. it is tapping into the insider-outside of logic. how can you have change if you keep electing the same people the office over and over again? what clinton has tried to tap into is the fact that donald trump is not the most effective messenger for that particular type of statement. ,n part because of his history, etc. surely insensitive. the history of having housing discrimination in the 1970's. it is a lack of no track record of advocacy in african-american communities. she wants to say he is not the right messenger to bring this message. she is attempting to discredit him. iowa?cornelia in

caller: good morning. is ae it your guest hillary supporter. and she kind of inferred that donald trump is racist. i do not believe that. there is what i think. i think the democratic party policies and their platform is racist. so was hillary clinton. if you go to investigate hillary clinton and her past, she was given the award, the margaret sanger award by the pro-choice people. sanger andmargaret said her work was not done. margaret sanger was the worst racist, one of the worst racists this country has ever seen. she wanted black people to be eliminated. that is one of the reasons she

was a founder of planned parenthood. planned parenthood puts abortion clinics in black neighborhoods. even president johnson of the democratic party said if we give the blacks welfare, we will have their vote for the next 200 years. host: professor gillespie? here i'm my role taking the role of a political scientist and an analyst role. i try to leave my partisan politic -- partisan views to the s -- side. they try to find white african americans vote democratic in the last 50 years. it is not a given african-americans will always be democrats. in fact they were always -- they were not always democrats. at the end of the civil war african americans who are newly freed identified with the republican party because of abraham lincoln having issued the emancipation proclamation.

they stayed largely republican through the new deal. once the new deal started, we saw african-americans vote democratic in elections. that solidified by 1964 when you have lyndon johnson promoting civil rights legislation and barry goldwater, republican candidate voted against it. that solidified african-american vote for the democratic party. and southern whites were drifting towards the republican party. that is a 50 year process we have recently seen come full circle. when i talk about those things it is not the stump for one candidate. it is to recount the history i have studied as a part of my profession. host: rudy from sun city, california. democrat. caller: i would like to find out, and i believe the blacks today, and i'm a 60-year-old black man who voted since 1976 when i was 20, i think they believe that hillary clinton

isn't like barack obama. nobody is like barack obama. i think they are expecting that type of energy and that type of fortitude to get out there and turn everybody on their heads to vote for them. she just isn't that type of candidate. i voted for her in 2008 because i didn't know what barack obama was. when he won the nomination, of course i was going to fall in line with democrats. it would've been the same with bernie. if bernie won it, i would've went for bernie. the kids are little confused. the black community is losing enthusiasm because of having the first black president. host: professor gillespie? guest: there is no doubt barack

obama to generate some additional support in the african-american community because of the historic nation of his candidacy in 2008 and his historic reelection in 2012. that is part of the reason going into this election cycle we should have expected black turnout to potentially be a little bit lower. you don't have the first black president when it are no black residents on the ballot. when he to look at whether or not black turnout are proportional to the numbers in the population or whether or not the turnout at a proportionately lower rate than their population numbers would suggest. that is cause for alarm if overall they turn out at about 4.8% of the electorate. that is proportional to the population. democrats realize they put a multiracial coalition together and they cannot rely on over performance mexican americans to get them over the hump. in places like georgia this

might not be a problem. right now the problem is early voting for african-americans in florida is a cause for alarm. i'm sure democratic operatives in florida are trying to drive up of this weekend and on tuesday. host: we will try to get in a few more calls. lisa in lufkin, texas. caller: good morning. there is not more black voter turnout. ms. hillary clinton was once a republican when she was young lady. she started being a democrat because of the oppression of the people. i feel that she is terribly misunderstood. host: professor gillespie? what are your thoughts from that color? caller -- caller? guest: i understand margaret

sanger was a eugenicist. those are important things to know about both of them and they are important parts of their life history but that is not all people need to know. as far as mrs. clinton explaining how she became a democrat and how civil rights help her be bald on her views about -- views about party affiliation, it is up to her to tell that story and how it affects her policy positions and what she intends to do as president. if she does not communicate that message effectively to people and do the shoe leather work at getting people out to vote, it will be difficult for her to be able to win the election. the same mr. for donald trump. is not a matter of having its beaches. it's a matter of doing the hard work of knocking on doors and making phone calls. whatever campaign is doing the tv job better is the one that will win the election. host: mary in chicago.

caller: hi. i think they got hillary all wrong. i think she is a good person. if you look at her record, you will see she has worked all her life for people. not just white people. we don't know nothing about donald trump. we don't know his taxes. we don't know anything about him. i think that is why some black people will vote for for hillary. maybe not as much but they are voting for her because that is the best choice. i would never vote for donald trump. host: how important is this election? how do you view it? as an important election or not as important as past elections? caller: very important. to me donald trump scares me. he reminds me of hitler. you: professor gillespie,

have some statistics that show black voters and how they view this election by age. 65 and older, 90% of them view it as important. what does that say for voter turnout? when does that mean for the democrats? caller: guest: we see ages correlated with thinking the election is important the same way it's correlated with stating you definitely plan on voting. older voters are more likely to say the election is important and others are likely to say definitely plan on voting. older people are more likely to turn out to vote until the you're physically incapacitated. that is because they are -- they have greater maturity, they are more settled in their lives. understand issues as a

.esult of their life experience that institutional memory is really important to getting the polls and understanding the importance of the election. it is not unusual for people to be less knowledgeable. there are young people who are politically engaged to have they will not vote in the election because they think they will teach the democratic party or elected officials a non-purchase a patient. they need to consider whether they have the clout to be heard. they need to listen to the elders talk about why it is important to participate in the progress and put the race into context since they were not inowed or politically aware 2000 or 1992 or 1964.

>> you can learn more about andrea gillespie and her >> coming up friday morning, mary agnes carey will be on. she will talk about what to expect in the upcoming enrollment. . and then, jeffrey rosen will be on and will talk about the history and role of the electoral college. also a professor of political science and the university of scranton will be on and we'll talk about pennsylvania's role as a battle:ground state. the late justice antonin

scalia a will be honored at a special meeting at the supreme court bar. we will hear from some of the former justices law clerks. oft, our coverage congressional races continues with the u.s. senate race in new hampshire. , kelly ayotteur debated maggie has some -- hassan. this is the granite state debates. >> the political eyes of a nation are focused on new hampshire. >> this will be a close race. >> the stakes could not be higher. >> i wake up every day with the sense of purpose to make a difference in washington. >> i will put new hampshire

first. >> each candidate is laying claim to the label of outsider. >> i see her as being more of a rubberstamp for democrats. >> it is the most expensive race in state history and both candidates are seeking an edge as this goes down to the wire. >> i want to make sure people understand their choices in the selection. -- this election. >> there's so much work that needs to be done. >> good evening and welcome to our granite state debate series. -- kckelvinalpine -- mckelvin. let's take a look at tonight's

formats. each candidate will have one minute to respond, rebuttals will be at the moderator discretion, and each candidate have time for a closing statement. before we get started, let's get to know our panelists. nreporter for the "union leader". we are to begin with a threat that is emerging at a rapid pace. a new hampshire company was the victim of repeated attacks and crippled in an attack to -- activity along the east coast. he could easily happen again, and some people worry it could disrupt financial markets or knockout our power grid. the committee on homeland security, what steps do

you think should be taken? >> it is great to be here with you. my priority is to keep new hampshire and the country safe, sitting on the armed services committee and the homeland security committee. this is a great threat. i have worked to make sure there are stronger agreements in place to allow the sharing of information between companies like dyne and the government when things like that happen to make sure we can take the steps we need. if it is a state actor, to be clear, and to take affirmative steps to help private companies protect private information. we have to take seriously threats from nationstates like iran and russia. i have been one of the only members of our delegation to forget -- vote against automatic

cuts for our military. we need the support and resources if we are going to stay safe. >> you recently signed an cyberive order for a center. what exactly does the center do and what should we be doing at the federal level to contract cyber terrorism? >> thank you for moderating, thank you to senator ayotte for being here. my first job as governor is keeping our state secure in our community safe. my first priority will always be keeping our country safe. among the things i have worked on as governor in addition to adding troopers on to our roadways, making sure we have active training for law enforcement and enhancing school

safety plans, is cyber security. state sure all of our employees have cyber security standardsestablishing , getting rid of outdated software that makes us vulnerable. the next step is making sure that all of the stakeholders and cyber security at a state level are working together to share information. that is also something we need to do in the private sector, as well. next question is for the governor. russia has been pointed to as the culprit in

several high-profile hacking cases. last year, they pointed to china as most likely involved in the theft of data at the office of u.s. personnel management. in a case where u.s. cyber security officials have evidence of a hack or cyber attack, should we encounter attack, try to steal information, or shutdown their systems? should we counter with conventional warfare, or should the u.s. do something else to respond? ms. hassan: thank you for the question, and it is nice to see you tonight. look, everything is on the table when it comes to keeping our country safe. what we have seen from russia in particular are acts of aggression, including, what looks like, according to our national security community, aggressive cyber attacks. we have all seen aggressive action taken toward china in

regards to the cyber security arena. we have to continue to confront and hold accountable our nations for those kinds of attacks. among the things we should consider doing are increasing sanctions against russia. some acts of aggression have close vladimir putin's business allies great concern and weakened them. but everything is on the table. i think it is important that we continue to combat cyber aggression and cyber attack. >> senator, same question. would you like me to repeat it? ms. ayotte: i think very clearly, whether it is russia, china, or frankly i ran or other -- frankly the country of iran or other countries who are using cyber attacks, we have to address what they do, and that means having the staffing capability within our armed services, making sure our armed services have the resources they need and the technical background. and if someone takes an aggressive step, we need to make sure we address it in return. unfortunately, when it comes to russia, this administration has not held russia accountable. the reset policy has been a

failure. we have not held them accountable for the invasion of ukraine or looking at what they have done in violating the inf treaty, whether it is cyber attacks or what they are doing in syria now. when we are not strong in terms of what we say in return, we will see them continue to act badly. moderator: i have a follow-up. it is pretty much accepted that russia is trying to influence the impact of our election. do you think they have been successful in doing that? ms. ayotte: i think our defense department will make sure they do not have an impact on our election or any other matter. i think this means being tough on actors like russia when they are violating international treaties, when they are

circumventing international law in terms of cyber crime, and when they are undermining our interest. i have been a strong critic of the lack of action on russia going back four years from now. ms. hassan: certainly, we have to do as much as we can to hold russia accountable. we talked about that just a little bit ago. but look, one of the things we know we have to do is continue to build alliances with nato allies, for instance, to make sure we have the resources and partnerships to hold russia accountable for its acts of aggression. i am very proud that in new hampshire we have paper ballots and our voting machines are not hooked up to the internet. that provides some security here for voters. i know our national security experts are working hard to make sure we are protecting our electoral system. but it is concerning to me that the republican nominee in the

presidential race has showered praise on vladimir putin, has praised him and in some ways invited him to make an attack of some sort on our electoral system, and that's one of the reasons i am so concerned that senator ayotte spent so much time supporting the nominee. ms. ayotte: when you want to talk about cyber security, hillary clinton, who governor hassan has followed on so many issues -- and really, has failed to call out on this issue -- she set up his private server transferring classified information, one of the most position -- important positions in our government, and that put national security at risk. if you want to talk about cyber crime, that could have put our

national security at risk. if she is not going to break with hillary clinton on this, when is she ever going to break with her? we need to make sure that we are standing up for the people of new hampshire and the people of this country. this was egregious. ms. hassan: i will always stand up to serve and protect the people of new hampshire as i always have. i disagree with secretary clinton on her support to close guantanamo, for example. i disagree with her on the internet sales tax. i disagree on the vetting of refugees. and let's be clear, i have said repeatedly that her use of e-mails was a mistake. she has apologized. i think that's appropriate. i think what is on the line in this race is whether we will have a senator who continues to fail to stand up to corporate special interests. or whether we will have somebody who puts new hampshire first.

moderator: speaking of the top of the ticket, you have both been asked repeatedly about it and now you will be again. -- and now you will do it again. [laughter] >> jim comey's decision to investigate new e-mails related to the private server has thrown a cloud of uncertainty on the presidential contest. setting a conceptus setting aside the comparison with donald -- setting aside a comparison with donald trump, are you prepared to say tonight that you still believe hillary clinton is a leader americans can believe and trust, and do you have any concerns about her character? ms. hassan: first of all, we definitely need more information from director comey and the fbi. this issue has been investigated exhaustively. secretary clinton has said she has made mistakes in the way she used her e-mails and has appropriately apologized for that. this election is about how we can come together and build a stronger, more innovative state.

we have an unemployment rate of 2.9%, one of the lowest in the country. we have been named the most business friendly state in the country. more people are at work today in new hampshire than at any time in our state's history. we can work across party lines to build a brighter future for all people. the middle class is growing and thriving. that is the vision i have and have worked toward. i support secretary clinton because she shares that vision and has a record of delivering on it. >> senator ayotte, you said you wanted your 12 year old daughter to know that rejecting him for his vulgar comments about women was more important than winning any election. but previously when he insulted muslims, mexicans, and a disabled reporter, you did not reject him. why not?

ms. ayotte: i called donald trump out on numerous occasions, including the examples that you gave. i stood up to my party on issues like the government shutdown, and i will stand up to both sides on behalf of the people of this state. but governor hassan, to call what hillary clinton did a mistake that has been exhaustively investigated, she has not stood up to hillary clinton. she will give you her talking points of where she differs, but what about issues like the trillion dollar tax increase hillary clinton wants. will she stand up to something like that? or addressing the concerns of health care laws? or the flawed iran agreement she followed hillary clinton on, that is dangerous for the country in terms of the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the world having access to nuclear infrastructure. i will stand up no matter what.

i have done it and will continue to put the interests of the people of new hampshire first. ms. hassan: the fact is senator ayotte is still supporting donald trump. she has sent out mailers that say donald trump needs are in the senate to support his supreme court nominees. she supports the agenda of overturning roe versus wade. she can try to distance herself, as she did on multiple occasions, but in fact she has said on 35 different occasions that she supported him. she called him a role model for our children. when the political winds seemed to change, she changed her position. she has stood with her party, voting five times with ted cruz to shut the government down, and on a supreme court blockade.

ms. ayotte: these are the talking points from governor hassan, but my actions speak for themselves. she has not stepped away from hillary clinton on one thing. i have taken the action of saying that i am not going to be voting for our nominee because i am concerned about the actions that he has talked about and takes. that speaks for itself. i have done that time and time again in the senate. that is why i have one of the most bipartisan records. i focus on getting things done for the people of this state. she can use her talking points all she wants on this issue, but the people of this state know i will stand up for them no matter what. she is certainly not going to stand up for hillary clinton. if she can't call her out on the private e-mail server, when is she going to call her out? >> it is great to be with both of you tonight. one of the reason these stakes are so high is that one party may be able to shape the landscape of the supreme court

for decades to come with as many as three justices. governor hassan, how much nominees for the supreme court and other federal judge ships? ms. hassan: thank you for the question. i am proud of the system we have in new hampshire where the governor nominates people for the court and the executives confirm those nominations. we have a nonpartisan judicial selection commission that recommends candidates to the governor. i have committed and always taken any nominee from that list of recommendations. over the last year or so, i have made 12 nominations to the court of new hampshire, and 11 of those have been confirmed by a republican majority executive council. i know it's possible to work across party lines to do this, which is why i am concerned about senator ayotte standing with her party to block a supreme court nomination.

i look for character. high qualification and experience as a lawyer. temperament, and someone who will protect the civil rights of every american. >> senator ayotte, you were against to holding a hearing on senator obama's nominee mary -- nominee merrick garland. didn't the american people weigh in in 2012 when they elected barack obama? ms. ayotte: certainly, the american people are going to weigh in next tuesday. they will cast their vote and the president will nominate someone to the supreme court. we have a divided court right now. we also have divided government. letting the people weigh in, i thought, was important. but i also have a very bipartisan record where i voted to confirm many of the president's nominees, in fact,

close to 100, and worked to fill members of his cabinet. i also want to make sure that whoever is nominated by the next president understands what their constitutional philosophy is and what their demeanor is in terms of serving on the highest court in the land. >> with regard to the supreme court, do you think it is appropriate to have lifetime appointments? ms. ayotte: i do. it's a lifetime confirmation. our founders wanted to ensure there were three coequal branches of government and that branch would not be subject to political influence. so, this is important and obviously an issue i will carefully review on behalf of new hampshire to make sure there -- make sure their constitutional rights are protected.

ms. hassan: i support lifetime appointments in accordance with the constitution, but i am very concerned about senator ayotte's support of the supreme court blockade. we do have divided government right now and unfortunately, the executive branch and legislative branch have been it ought. that's been at odds -- been at odds. the supreme court served as a tiebreaker for that. senator ayotte decided to bring gridlock as they having congress to the court. just as she brought gridlock to that, she voted with ted cruz five times to shut the government down, only deciding after it was shut down and feeling the political heat of that in new hampshire, then she decided she would be part of a solution. similarly, she has voted to defund planned parenthood six times, standing with her party as she has stood with the koch brothers. she has been highly partisan and stood with her party and its

backers at very critical times when she could have broken and really helped people in small businesses. ms. ayotte: if you want to talk gridlock, is vetoing a bipartisan budget because there is a reduction for business taxes and then both parties overwriting your veto. that's gridlock. that's bringing washington style to what happened in new hampshire. she keeps talking about the government shutdown. the papers in this state described the work i did with senator shaheen and other women senators to open the government. she knows what she is saying is not true. i stood up to ted cruz and my own caucus on the government shutdown. i led the effort to reopen the government, and people of this state know that. ms. hassan: i am certainly proud to have senator shaheen's endorsement in this race. i will always stand up for fiscal responsibility.

senator ayotte had a few facts wrong, but at the end of the day, we had a continuing resolution, kept the government going, brokered a compromise, and i encouraged everyone to vote for a compromise budget that had important safeguards so that we could invest in critical economic priorities. moderator: thoughts and prayers are with the families and friends of two police officers in iowa who were murdered today, ambushed while sitting in their patrol cars. we don't know all the circumstances surrounding this yet, but it is reported that the alleged shooter had a violent past with guns. incidents like this continue the discussion when it comes to gun laws in the country. that is where we are going for the next question. >> senator ayotte, you are known to have widely opposed universal background checks at gun shows. how can checking to see if

someone has a criminal background be a bad thing? ms. ayotte: first of all, my thoughts and prayers go to the families of those officers. i prosecuted the case where a decorated hero was killed in the line of duty. to me, standing up for police is so important. having been a murder prosecutor and working on difficult cases like that in our state, having served as attorney general i appreciate how important it is that we keep guns away from criminals and terrorists. i also believe it's deeply important that we stand up for the second amendment rights of our citizens. i support background checks. i have worked to get records in the system that are not in there now and mental health records that have not gotten in that new hampshire has not gotten in. i have also supported more prosecutions of the law of violations of the background checks.

right now, new hampshire needs more resources to do that for our troopers. the system is not working the way it should. i very proud to have the endorsement of the troopers and patrolmen. they know i will work to keep them safe in light of all the threats we are facing. >> governor hassan, you have twice vetoed a repeal of the states concealed carry law that requires people to get a license to carry a concealed gun. given the millions of dollars spent by pro-gun groups to support your candidacy, why should people believe you will support the second amendment? ms. hassan: my thoughts and prayers also go to the families of the officers taken from us this morning in iowa. i fully support the second amendment. i believe responsible gun owners have the right to defend themselves, to recreate, and to hunt.

i think that has to be balanced with public safety. as governor, i thought it was appropriate to keep the gun laws that have been in existence in new hampshire for about 100 years the way they were. they were described as the former governor as pretty good gun laws that worked pretty well, so i made sure we sustained those. at the end of the day, one of the big concerns i have is as a national security and public safety issue, we should be closing loopholes so that terrorists cannot buy guns online and at gun shows. even after the tragedy in orlando, senator ayotte had the opportunity to vote to close those loopholes, and she has declined to do that. that is a real difference in this race. ms. ayotte: i brought a group together after orlando to address the ability to purchase firearms if you are too dangerous to get on a commercial flight while also setting up a system for those who are on the list wrongly to be able to go

into a court and get off the list. in new hampshire, unfortunately the state police need more resources. they have gaps and forcing current law because they don't have enough resources. it's one of the reasons i supported more prosecutorial resources at the federal level. moderator: i don't mean to be the bad guy when it comes to times and rebuttals, but your campaigns will certainly let me know if one goes longer than the other. new hampshire is dealing with the crisis of addiction. the next question goes to senator ayotte. >> addiction continues at crisis levels in new hampshire where the state medical examiner projects nearly 500 people will die from overdoses this year. senator ayotte, your campaign aired a tv ad that you and and senator shaheen sponsored

that you said will save lives and help families get the care they need. -- but only million $7 million has been appropriated to the nation. but is your ad and honest representation of the bills ability to fight this epidemic? ms. ayotte: yeah, in that i mean you have doug and pam griffin who lost their beautiful daughter, courtney. so many people i have gotten to know in new hampshire have lost a family member that they loved. this bill, we worked for three years in the united states senate to get it passed. it works on prevention, treatment, and recovering. i have been fighting for more resources through the funding appropriations process to assist states, making sure we are addressing these programs. that bill was signed into law the summer, and it is going to

make a difference. when government funding expires in december. that is only the beginning of it. this will be a bill that makes a difference. this issue is about all of us working together to save lives. finally, we need to deal with interdiction at the southern border. i have done that at the armed services committee. coming over the southern border, it is being trafficked here by mexican drug cartels. we need to support our law enforcement in securing the borders as well. >> governor, you have made this a priority, but your critics have said you have been slow to respond at times. the man you appointed as drugs are was later called incompetent to. just later called incompetent. -- later called incompetent.

you were unaware of a $12 million federal grant to fight the drug crisis until the media ask you about it. how does this reflect on your leadership? ms. hassan: i have been all over the state, as you know, talking with people every day about the impact of this devastating epidemic on our families, our businesses, and our way of life, whether it is talking with a colleague about her sister in recovery but trying to regain the trust of her children, or mourning the loss of one of my son's classmates. this has impacted all of us. since my first day in office, i have been fighting to get the resources we need in new hampshire, fighting for drug task force teams. fighting for medicaid expansion. that is what providers told us is the single must important thing we can do. we have gotten $25 million out the door to places like harbor homes, hope for recovery, and other places, to make sure friendship house in bethlehem, to make sure we are doing everything we can to put a dent

in from every angle, prevention, law-enforcement, treatment, recovery. we need to continue to work together to do that. >> thank you, candidates. we are going to move into the lightning round. relationships. senator, we will start with you. who is your most trusted advisor who is not a member of your own party? ms. ayotte: members of my family. my husband and my mother. i turn to them first. also, the people in new hampshire who give me such great advice. on the heroin epidemic, it was people like doug and pam griffin who lost their daughter, people like melissa cruse who founded hope for new hampshire recovery. those are the best advisors i have. >> do you have a conduit to communication from a democrat in washington?

ms. ayotte: i have worked with claire mccaskill on sexual assault. i have worked with senator shaheen on many issues for new hampshire, whether it is support for the shipyards, refueling units, care for veterans. i am always looking for common ground to get things done. >> governor, who do you reach out to for a republican counterpoint? ms. hassan: first of all, the people of new hampshire are great sources. there are so many times when i talk to people in this state and nobody identifies by party, which is the point. we work together to get things done. if elected leaders followed the example of the people of new hampshire who solve problems without regard to partisanship, we could do pretty well. i have a lot of friends and family who happen to be republicans, and i have a close friend in new england who is a republican, and we talk a lot about various issues.

moderator: i kind of blew it on the lightning portion of that. according to pew research, 57% of americans are now in favor of legalizing recreational marijuana. do you agree with the majority? ms. hassan: i don't. i was proud to sign into law the bill that allows us to have medical marijuana. i think that is the right, compassionate, appropriate thing to do. i don't think a young person or any person should have their life ruined by a simple possession charge. i was proud to enact a bill that allows our court system more flexibility in terms of penalties, but i don't think legalizing marijuana is appropriate, especially given the epidemic we are dealing with with opiates. ms. ayotte: i do not support legalizing marijuana. i have heard from first responders and addiction experts the concerns they have about legalizing marijuana and how it

could be connected to issues like our heroin epidemic. i would not support this. going back to being attorney general of the state and working closely with law-enforcement, i could not support it. >> are you in favor of federal term limits? ms. ayotte: i am and i have cosponsored legislation on term limits. ms. hassan: the best term limit is the ballot box. i think we have an engaged citizenry and we can decide when people deserve to be reelected and when they don't. >> the federal minimum wage is $7.25. what do you think it should be? ms. hassan: i don't think anyone working full time should live in poverty, which is what happens right now if you work for minimum wage. it also means people do not have disposable income to spend on consumer goods that drive our

economy. i would support raising it and phasing it into $12 an hour, but we have to do it while working with our businesses. ms. ayotte: i believe the focus should not be on minimum wage, it should be on better paying jobs. i look at jobs in manufacturing and technology around our state that are well beyond minimum wage. families cannot live on minimum wage. i think that our stem and career technical education leads to better jobs in this country. in washington, one of the things i am worried about is that we lose between half a million to a million jobs according to the economic analysis. we don't want to lose jobs. those are entry-level jobs. my first job was as a bus girl at a restaurant in new hampshire. what i want to focus on is better jobs than minimum wage jobs. moderator: i know it is the lightning round. i will end on the october classic, even though it is november.

i'm sure a lot of people will be watching. cubs or indians? ms. ayotte: i like to root for the underdog, but the cubs came from behind, so i think the cubs. i would have liked to see big papi in the world series. ms. hassan: i am also rooting for the cubs. moderator: we are going to circle back to foreign policy. the next question is for the governor. >> we are going to circle back to debt. there is a new nonpartisan study out there that shows that more new hampshire graduates left school with loans more than any other state. the average student debt was more than $36,000. senator ayotte, you voted twice for large budget bills that included cuts to pell grants, money for needy students, then

voted against a bill to restore $90 billion in cuts. why? senator ayotte: that is not true. that budget did not cut pell grants. it made sure there was oversight over the spending of pell grants. i want that for all federal spending. but i have actually worked to expand pell grants. if i were against pell grants, i would not have done that. i worked with tim kaine to expand them to career technical education and also so you can seek access to them year-round. perkins grants, they were trying to end those in washington. 5000 students in new hampshire would have been impacted. you can see my speech on the senate floor from september 29, 2015, where i fought to keep those available for the people of new hampshire. for me, i had student loans myself, pay them off, then transfer that money into childcare. i know how important this is for the kids in new hampshire.

this is very important. by the way, when it comes to education, i would like to talk about that more. because what governor hassan did to the kids in croydon by vetoing a bill that would have allowed parents to send their kids to a montessori school. and she vetoed a bill that would allow them to do that. i want parents to decide these issues, and there is a big issue in terms of how we view education. moderator: take a little extra time to respond. ms. hassan: i know how important about our families and businesses, making sure higher education is affordable and it is something i have made a priority as governor. we want to make sure people who work hard have an opportunity to get ahead. that starts with access to affordable higher education, which is why i worked as governor to freeze in-state tuition at our public state universities for the first time in 25 years and lower it at our

community colleges. it is why in washington i would continue to make bringing the cost of higher education down a priority, but my economic plan also speaks to expanding programs, because it is such a -- pell grants, bikinis -- pell grants, because it is such a critical issue for young people and our businesses. moderator: we have got to keep moving forward. >> governor, you support pell grants, but new hampshire is one of two states that does not offer need-based aid to students. why hasn't that been a priority in the last four years? ms. hassan: i will continue my answer to just say, on the pell grant issue, people should check for themselves. she voted for a budget that had billions of dollars of cuts to programs. the day before, she voted for an amendment that would not ever -- that would not restore $90 million.

it is one of the reasons senator shaheen voted against it. we should be doing more on scholarships in new hampshire. i was glad in my first budget, we were able to restore scholarships that had been cut in previous budgets. moderator: your option? sen. ayotte: you can go read it yourself, the senate concurrent resolution 11. it did not cut held grants -- pell grants. but also, this issue about education and the fact that governor hassan here in new hampshire does not want to allow parents and local school boards to decide where it is best for our kids to go to school, i think that is perhaps because federal education unions have pumped millions of dollars into this race. they are supporting her campaign. i'm going to stand for the kids first, not unions, and make sure that kids can go where their parents think is best. gov. hassan: what i would like senator ayotte to do and agree with me about is to stand for new hampshire constitution.

the new hampshire constitution says that state dollars cannot be used to fund private schools. we have a court ruling that says we can't spend the money that way, and so, we can't spend the money that way. we will work with the people of croydon to make sure their children have access to a good quality education, something we worked to do throughout the state. moderator: moving forward to foreign policy. i apologize to -- apologize for my mistake earlier. >> this is first you, senator ayotte. as iraqi forces continue to push into mosul to unseat isis, there are reports of how complicated it will be to defeat them considering how entrenched they are. if this is truly a stronghold for the terrorist group, should the u.s. be sending and a significant ground force to back up the iraqis and debilitate isis? sen. ayotte: this issue is so important. serving on the armed services committee and chairing the

readiness subcommittee for the nation, keeping our country safe. we do have to destroy isis and radical islamist terrorists who want to destroy our way of life. what our men and women in uniform are doing -- we have to understand, we have 4500 troops who are there. we have members of our own guard who have been there in the middle east and supporting those efforts. we need to make sure that they have the rules of engagement that they need to go after the enemy and to keep us safe, making sure that we engage our allies -- both our arab allies and also nato to take greater action against isis. we don't need a traditional ground force right now to take out isis, but we do need stronger american leadership and engaging nato in a more aggressive way. our arab allies in a more aggressive way, and we have to push back against russia, who is undermining our interests and

iran at this point. if we don't do that, even taking mosul, the post period there will continue to be a challenge. we have to do all that we can to defeat isis. >> governor, what is your take on this? gov. hassan: first of all, the campaign to take back mosul is critical to our strategy to destroy isis. i am fully supportive of the campaign to do it. i think we are doing it in the right way with iraqi forces taking the lead and the united states during airstrikes and providing support and training with special operations. i am particularly proud of the new hampshire national guard for its support and training activities in the middle east, and i hope everyone viewing tonight keeps the men and women of the guard in their thoughts and prayers. i have laid out a clear plan to

defeat isis. it includes increasing airstrikes, making sure our special operations forces are going after command and control of isis as well as doing the support and training they are doing. surging intelligence, working with international allies to make sure we're arming moderate forces. it is long past time for the united states congress to take up and pass a revised new authorization of use of military force so the american people are clear about what it will take to destroy isis. >> would you support sending a significant ground force? gov. hassan: no, i think it is appropriate level of support and training that our special operations are doing, but i don't support ongoing continuous ground troops.

>> as a result of the fighting around mosul, the un's suspects -- expects war than one million -- expects more than a million civilians to be affected. governor hassan, you were the only democratic governor to call for a temporary ban on syrian refugees coming into the u.s. several months later, you said the federal government had improved its communications with state governments about who is coming in. how did the communications improves specifically, and how many more syrians, if any, should the u.s. allowing going forward? gov. hassan: as governor, the security of my state is always the first priority i have. after the attack in paris, i thought when the fbi and cia directors expressed concern about whether our refugee vetting system was working, as it was supposed to, as the guidelines and policies laid out on paper said it was supposed to, i thought it was appropriate for the administration to take a temporary pause and really do the kind of audit you need to address the concerns raised by the cia and fbi. that is something i still think they should do, and i'm disappointed they did not. they did improve communications in terms of giving us more much more regular updates about refugees coming in, but at the end of the day, what we should be doing is focusing on making sure our vetting system is better. we should be making sure all of our entryways, including the visa waiver system, is better, monitoring social media, and

working with our european allies on their information and vetting processes as well. >> just to be clear, do you believe a ban still needs to be in place? gov. hassan: i think a temporary pause makes a lot of sense, i still do, so we can address the concerns the cia and fbi have raised. moderator: senator, please. sen. ayotte: certainly serving on the armed services committee, this issue -- unless we can guarantee that someone coming here from that region has no connection to isis, they should not come here. unfortunately, in the senate, we had votes on strengthening that vetting system, including requiring our national security advisers and making sure the armed services had to certify that no one coming here was a threat. that got blocked by the senate democrats, and this is an issue that has not been addressed. president obama keeps pushing to have more of these refugees who have come here, in terms of more

communication, i have not heard what that is. my concerns are that we know isis is purposely trying to infiltrate the refugee population. we have heard that in the armed services committee from our commanders in europe. we have heard that from our top intelligence officials, and hillary clinton wants to bring more refugees in here. we have not heard how that is going to work when we still don't have the information to know that some of these refugees, whether or not they're connected with isis or not. moderator: moving forward to the affordable care act. everybody's favorite get along topic. >> governor, under obama care, employer health care premiums have gone up. -- gone up $5,000. the obama administration announced that individual premiums would go up 25% nationally. although the rates are lower in new hampshire, some plans as high as 15%. how can you tell mom and pop businesses that the aca is a good deal for them?

gov. hassan: as many of our viewers you know, my husband tom and i have two children, the oldest of whom has severe disabilities and medical conditions that go with that. at various times, ben has had nine or 10 doctors and over a dozen medications, so we are well aware of the strengths and flaws of our health care system. the affordable care act certainly needs some very important improvements, but we can't go back to a time before the aca, where people with pre-existing conditions could not get coverage. we cannot go back to a time where students could not stay or young people could not stay on their parents' health insurance. for small businesses, there are some real challenges with aca. one of the things that aca allowed us to do in new hampshire was put together a bipartisan medicaid expansion, this expansion program providing health care to hard-working granite stater's. if you repeal the aca, you pull the rug out from those folks. and my opponent has voted to

repeal medicaid expansion five times. we know we should improve the aca, but we cannot just repeal it. >> this is an issue where people are skeptical anything is going to change. the house republican congress has 40 times passed a repeal of obama care. all have fallen flat. tonight, what can you say can honestly be accomplished next year in congress? so that people continue to have health insurance but it is not outrageously expensive? ms. ayotte: this is such an important issue that i am hearing about from so many people who are facing higher deductibles, co-pays, premiums. the affordable care act is not so affordable for new hampshire families or small businesses. having roundtables with small business owners, my husband has a small business. others who are hearing very significant increases that they are getting, especially for those small business owners.

if you elect to governor hassan to the senate, you are going to be in a position where we won't make changes to address more competition, choice, transparency, and really, making sure we drive down health care costs. she talks about my votes. i did vote five times to see if we could repeal and replace the affordable care act, but i have also voted when it came to a vote on medicaid expansion to expand that for two years so we could have more flexibility for state serving those populations. i do not want to go backward on pre-existing conditions, but if we don't make changes to this law, instead of one-size-fits-all from washington -- which hillary clinton wants to expand, not address the rising cost -- that so many are struggling for in new hampshire. moderator: thank you. take 30 seconds. give us an example of improvement. gov. hassan: our medicaid expansion -- bipartisan -- in new hampshire is a state

specific solution that senator ayotte has voted to repeal. when you think about what the improvements are, we need to, among other things, lower the cost of prescription drugs. one of the things that senator ayotte has failed to do in the senate is stand up and allow medicare to negotiate for prescription drug prices, which i support. she has voted against allowing us to import prescription drugs from canada. that would add competition. she has stood with big pharma as they have been a major donor to her campaigns, and that is my -- one of the differences between the two of us. it is one of the major things we could do to lower health care costs. moderator: governor, thank you very much. took about donors saying this is going to be the most expensive race in state history -- $100 million have been spent in outside money, much of it on negative attacks ads. you are able to deny ownership since you can't coordinate with third-party groups. but tonight i want to ask you, what is the most unfair negative

ad? for you first, senator ayotte -- what is the most unfair negative ad that aired in this race about the opponent? sen. ayotte: about your opponent? as i look at the ads that have aired, i think in the beginning i called for some of the ads that came down that attack governor hassan on the heroin epidemic. i think there are issues you can raise, as kevin asked her about tonight, and how she has handled this. i want to work on solving this problem, so i have already done that. she has not called out any of the ads that have been run against me, and we could have kept this money out of this race. i offered governor hassan the people's pledge that was in place between elizabeth warren and scott brown that senator shaheen offered in her race to keep this money out. how we would conduct ourselves. unfortunately, she did not want to accept that because you see all the ads on your tv -- she wanted the special interest money to come in this race, and

it is very unfortunate because this should be about new hampshire. moderator: senator, have you seen anything that is unfair or has crossed the line about senator ayotte? gov. hassan: i signed the pledge and sent it to senator ayotte, but she refused to sign it. at the end of the day, there is only one candidate standing before you who supports campaign-finance reform and overturning citizens united. i support that, which is the decision that says corporations are people. i don't think corporations are people, i don't think they should be able to bring on this dark money spending into our state. senator ayotte's voting record tells you that she thinks corporations are people, too, because she votes with wall street, big pharma, the coke -- the koch others and big oil. they are running these ads against me because they want her to return to washington.

so that they will have a reliable vote for their agenda. moderator: 30 seconds to respond. sen. ayotte: i offered her the people's pledge, the same language in place in the massachusetts race to keep the money out. she wants the money in, because you have seen it on your tv. harry reid super pack, mike bloomberg, over $7 million, the unions, millions of dollars. hillary clinton super pac, millions of dollars. you can see it on your tv right now. all of these false misleading attacks that come forward -- that is because she wanted this money in this race. she could have kept it out. moderator: our time is flying, we need to get to our final question. new hampshire is the only state in the lower 48 that does not have a full-service va hospital. you are also aware of the choice option that senator ayotte and senator shaheen have been working on.

do you think we need a full-service hospital? hassan: i think we need a full-service hospital for our veterans. i am the daughter of a world war ii veteran, and one of the things i focus on as governor is how we can make sure veterans have the benefits they deserve and have access to employment, housing. i am proud of the work we have done in new hampshire to expand veterans homes, add more beds and create a new dementia bed for it, along with the vets connect program and many others. i think we need a full-service veterans hospital, one, because our veterans in new hampshire deserve it. they should not have to travel long distances to get the care they need. i also think it is very critical that as we have more and more people -- veterans -- who have specific injuries because of the new and evolving kind of threats that our enemies and adversaries have, they have difference in new kinds of injuries. -- different and new kinds of injuries. we need to bring the expertise of the veterans -- moderator: at one point, senator, you were in favor of a full-service hospital, but you say it is not as urgent because

of the v a choice card. sen. ayotte: one of the first bills i introduced in the senate was to have new hampshire have a full-service hospital. i am the wife of a combat veteran. my grandfather served in world war ii, my stepfather in vietnam. we are a family of service. as i think about all the issues that are out there, we have to get this right for our veterans and their families. i have been working with senator shaheen to get the v.a. choice program right. there is too much bureaucracy in the v.a. right now. our veterans should be able to get the best care. there should be more accountability in the va. i have introduced legislation to clawback bonuses for people who committed misconduct. there is no more important issue

to me than making sure our veterans get the care that they have earned defending this great nation. i have been proud to work with senator shaheen, and we will continue to fight to make sure the choice program is right and continue to fight for a full-service hospital. moderator: we have some time for you to deliver closing statements. senator ayotte? sen. ayotte: thank you, josh, and governor hassan for being part of this debate. most of all, i want to thank you at home for listening. this election is not about the negative, misleading ads on your tv. this election is about you and your family and who is going to stand up to be that independent voice for new hampshire with a positive vision for our country. i have one of the most bipartisan records in the senate because i know the only way we are going to get things done is by working together. like the law i worked on to address our heroin epidemic, or solutions i have worked on to help our small businesses or make college in health care more -- to make college and health care more affordable. there is so much more work to do. i am proud to fight for those who keep us safe as the wife of the combat veteran.

the only way we're going to get things done is to stand up to both sides when they are taking us in the wrong direction and finding common ground, when we can agree to deliver results for our state and country. that is what i have done in the senate. that is why i am running again. i ask for your vote on november 8 so we can continue the work we have started together for this great state. thank you so much. gov. hassan: thank you, senator ayotte and josh, our panelists, and to all our viewers. growing up, my dad, who fought in world war ii the battle of the bulge, would sometimes look at us at the breakfast table and ask, what are you doing for freedom today? dad was serious, because my father along with his generation -- the greatest generation -- by believing in a cause greater than themselves saved the world and built this country into the greatest military and economic power the world had ever seen. that is the spirit i have tried

to bring to my work as governor, and it is the spirit that should inform our work and washington, -- in work in, bc washington, d.c. unfortunately, what we see is the nation's capital captured by corporate special interests. the choice in this election is clear. are we going to continue to have a senator who votes with those corporate special interests whose agenda is shaped by them? they already have enough senators in washington. or are we going to have a senator who has a record, as i do, of putting people in small businesses of new hampshire first? that is my commitment to all of you. i will always put you first. i respectfully ask for your vote. >> candidates, thank you very much. best of luck to you in the final days of this campaign. our audience into you at home, thank you for watching. we are back to tonight -- tomorrow night with day number three. have a good night.

>> our coverage continues in the afternoon from detroit where hillary clinton will hold a rally live at 5:15 p.m. eastern. we will take you to hershey, pennsylvania for a rally with donald trump live at 7:00. >> all week on c-span2, we are showing simulcasts of clinical radio talk shows, and today at 9:00 until noon, the mike gallagher show live from new york city beginning at 9:00 eastern on c-span2. debate in california's 21st district. coverst district bakersfield and its surrounding areas. >> from your local election headquarters, california passed

21st congressional district debate between republican david valadao and challenger democrat emilio huerta. your local election headquarters. california's 21st congressional district debate starts now. it's >> good to have you with us -- tonight. i'm jim scott along with my colleague evan onstot. we welcome you to our debate between the candidates for california's 21st congressional district. gop incumbent david valadao and his challenger emilio huerta. before we start our debate we wanted to take a look at the race, this 21st congressional district and see what is at stake. >> representing the 21st congressional district in

washington means covering a lot of ground. the 21st covers much of the southern half of the san joaquin valley including parts of fresno, kern, king in tulare county. from a section of bakersfield to the south to just stop a fresno -- to just south of fresno to the north. david valadao, the republican dairy farmer has won big twice despite democrats having a double-digit voter registration edge. emilio huerta plans to change that. the bakersfield lawyer and son of labor icon, dolores huerta. he wants to succeed where other democrats have failed. tonight there is plenty to debate. the best plan to bring more water to the valley. a chance to make their case to the voters. >> we've gone over the roles with the candidates.

>> we've gone over the rules with the candidates. we flip the coin a moment ago. mr. huerta, your first. mr. huerta: thank you for allowing us to be here this evening and think if the opportunity to speak to residents of the central valley and your viewers throughout kern, king tulare and fresno county. i have been a resident of the central valley my entire life. i was born and raised here in kern county. i attended local schools. what the california state university bakersfield where i was able to graduate in three years after dropping out of high school. i went to law school at santa

clara university. i came back to the valley. i family, my mother and i, we have always been at the forefront of trying to make lives better for working people in the central valley. i was a labor negotiator for the united farmers negotiating collective bargaining agreements to improve working conditions for farmworkers to the central valley. later in life, i was able to represent many community nonprofit organizations as board chair legally, board chair of federal credit union representing workers the victims of wage theft in the county. i know when i go to washington that i will be able to fight to bring resources and represent the true interests of the central valley. >> thank you, sir. mr. valadao: thank you, jim, thank you evan, thank you for this opportunity. i represent the 21st congressional district. the last 3.5 years. a dairy farmer by trade. still currently farm and part of that was my family. my wife and kids still live out on the farm. i get to travel back and forth to d.c. my goal in life was to try to

make things better for my community and my children to have the same opportunity i did. going to washington has been a huge learning experience. i'm proud of what we thought for. water for our valley. something less and the majority of my time on and will continue to fight on. making sure we have a process that allows businesses to be successful. but also coming home and spending time with my family. being part of the farm in trying to raise a crop. keep people employed and raise good kids for the next generation. thanks are having me. >> thanks for being here. political ads are airing a lot. we wanted to start with that. my first question is going to be to you congressman, the democratic party has tried to tie you to donald trump as much as possible. you wanted to take a look at this ad right now from the house majority pac as well as solidarity aft. >> congressman valadao -- trump

denied water is a problem in california. it's why we need emilio huerta, born and raised in the central valley. he worked for the united farm workers union. he will fight for health care and job creation for all of us. house majority pac responsible for the content of this advertising. evan: i know that you have tried to distance yourself from donald trump in recent months. how do you respond to this ad? mr. valadao: i never once said those words that i support donald trump and they have put thoseir -- put parenthesis in their. the local paper even said they deserve an emmy award. this is a -- this is what it is. when that statement was made there were 15 people in the race and since he became the nominee , i separated myself and a few

weeks ago when he said those -- when the audio came out -- it is a political world and we expect that when we get into these races. evan: mr. huerta? mr. huerta: i think that for the most part it is pretty accurate. i think time is the valadao decided to put distance between himself. when mr. trump came out and condemned mexican immigrants and called them rapists and drug dealers, i myself, a mexican-american, was offended. i'm sure most residents in the central valley, a majority of which in the 21st district were latinos, were equally as offended as i was. mr. valadao waited until months