then we also have the establishment clause. view ofmandated religion. the constant balance we are strike is to respect the founding was him of tolerance -- tolerance and believersand ensuring and nonbelievers can worship or not worship in the way they please. represents a multitude of choices about cities and goods we want to encourage and roster. example, the mortgage interest reduction because we decision thatlicy it is a good idea to have homeownership. churches and many other great social do

work. there is tax-exempt and taxed at the full status for those assets because we have made the decision of having organizations nonprofithes or other deliver great social services government just the is a public good that we want to encourage. the difference is that we do not politicalbsidize the .peech then that taxpayers are giving their money to a particular viewpoint. we might run up against an we areshment problem is going to allow tax exemption and just religiousor political speech, but not act to the. issue on put another

comments.and get your the government cannot sit naturally burden a person's religious follow beliefs, unless he can prove a interest in compressing the burden or do so way.e least restrict the >> a great statute that defends people of all faiths. trying to be in the military and shave.heir country don't they served since world war one in the military. a strong history of military service. speaks -- they have been excluded for 30 years in the military. there is no good reason for this.

it's really put the government to the test. you have to say, is there a why theyg reason should be compelling american citizens from serving because of them the army has started allowing them to serve in the military. a critical role in our society defending the religious faithful people. >> the constitutional accountability board. talking about religion and politics. wisconsin.om >> good morning. i am a strong believer in stateg church and

separate. about women'slk rights with abortion and all that. abortion,elieve in but i will not push that on other all. i don't know their situation. them and their doctor and who they hold to a higher power. issue thatso a moral if you are going to make people babies under the isn't it's an obligation to make sure they are taking care of with programs to help the people making sure they have formula and diapers and food? it seems like the republican party once to make sure that is

upheld. they do want -- do not want programs to help out the families. i have a real problem with people not keeping church and state separate and getting too involved in those issues that be between a woman and other.significant agrees withme court you on the decision whether or not to have an abortion is left herself.woman or with her family, her her, her pastor, however she goes about making that important decision. the supreme court has said that her.decision left to your other comments about

culture throughout all life is something that is interesting. something would be that would be worth a vigorous discussion. page ofis the front today's union leader. a plea for unity. there are prayer services scheduled for today and tomorrow . something facingrancor, the election together. a full facing list of services in the greater manchester in central area.mpshire >> i would like to go back to why should we punish

organizations you go imagine if government said you have choices. you can choose to have the did , but if you choose to out inr blog or speak favor of any political takedate, you cannot any deduction. that is exactly what has happened here with the government saying we will allow this category of tax-exempt organizations, but if you speak out on a political campaign, we will put osu. of there is no reason why any tax-exempt organization should face punishment because of their political views. upholds the establishment

clause when you treat all same.zations the >> kevin from marshall, texas. >> i disagree with what a says.er i do not get to them. have other options. you do not have that much reason their out from under local views. you have to quit or give up your right to vote for representation believe will help you. my other point is so-called tax subsidy. i would be willing to subsidize $5,000. i was going to charge you $10,000. check for $5,000, and

we will call that a tax subsidy. >> side is right. subsidy is really a misnomer. we have made choices not to tax certain entities. we allowed the money to be provided for vulnerable really a misnomer. we have made choices not topopue government.the these are at the community level where people can find the best help further problems. we should not turn this into his thing that the irs monitors. >> another look at the lyndon johnson amendment, the centerpiece of what we've been talking about with religion and politics. democrats line. good morning. >> thank you for taking my call.

my problem is the hypocrisy of party.ublican they stand on gay marriage and abortion. there is eight other commandments. you hate someone in your heart, god is going to judge you for murder. look at the covenants, the free. problem with the republican party, they are such hypocrites. jesus christ is the only way to go. america. >> a comment more than a question. jerry from michigan. good morning.

i am watching the tv. to question i have in regard it theits, but how is churches can hold raffles, the army can that sell and they fall under the 5013 c. is that against the law itself? that bensonnothing bringing in from money to a certain extent. that's income would be tax-exempt. it is more about the purpose for which the organization is organized. a church may have a raffle and

help social services or another not affect the take money to help enable it to continue providing services to community with a private organized to make money. that is the purpose for which they are organized. >> personally i do not want to about politics at church. i listen to c-span for politics. >> good morning. money. thati have a two-tiered questio. if the tax-exempt status were removed, what areas would remain to lobby or have the hierarchy office? to the johnsonor

damage was ever done by a religious organization? >> for 50 years we organizations in the united states, and no one saw any problems. martin luther king speaking out and leading the movement against racial inequality. forgious leaders who fought present reform or children vulnerable. all of these ends were always done. that is the kind of thing we do not need in this country and clearly a violation. next cooperation of church and date. clear separation, at least on paper. rex examples that eric just game

about the important roles. the vulnerable among us. way prohibited under 5013 c of the tax code. it should continue under the johnson amendment. this is worth 15 in the constitution coming from the first moment.

so i think these important expressedt are being including religious organizations up voting polity is not in any way prohibited. >> ralph joining us from detroit. good morning. >> i disagree. if a religious leader is going to speak the bible, they had politics. do with giving what belongs to him. i totally disagree that preachers get money from the government, and then these guys

office give money to the congregations to put these politicians in office. is misleading the people. if you are really demonstrating god's word, you would speak crooked politicians who make it hard for the poor people will. religious readers job. to speak against evil. organization.us the idea there is a clear line that follows the law. a violation of the constitution. in any case, it should not have .he discretion

should not be in the position of deciding when a religious organization is crossed the line. if there is an important moral issue at stake in one candidate has spoken out strongly on one side of it and the other has spoken out strongly on the other side, clearly favoring one side that indirectly participating in a political why would we let the irs be the one to make that alcohol organization should be allowed to decide for themselves. >> michael, alexandria, independent line. >> good morning. i think the problem is the cynicism of campaigning on moral issues.

really there is a pocket of the gas industry or things of that nature soap people see parties and people religion tousing make their way into the congregation, and then they will information that has siding withtion certain factions of the society that most will with few as a moral. the pillaging of the public. >> i think that is the choice of the p all. issues beingot of debated right now. no matter who they cast their given theirall have lives to have the right to vote.

>> so is a tax deduction is donating to religion, religious people will not donate that so that speaks volume. >> i think people will still donate. punish religions for doing charitable work that society?the it is easy to become cynical in society. i encourage viewers to think goods that religious organizations do in this country. if you look at congregation-based programs that the mentally ill, there are something like 79,000 congregation-based programs to serve the needs of the mentally ill. we should remember these

organizations are providing crucial services that otherwise from the taxpayer or government. to allow them to remain taxes -- tax-exempt. toolould not use that as a .o control political views the independent line. good morning. thank you for allowing me to call. a mortgage reduction. not everyone has a mortgage deduction ability. if they want to go out and speak about what they want, that is fine. there are hundreds and hundreds of churches. >> it is really not a false

distinction. the government has chosen to leave charitable organizations tax-exempt. we should not say you can only have this benefit if we agree with your political views. if you speak out to strongly or in favor of one or the other we will pull the exemption. we should not be doing this as a fodder.ontrol political we do not want the government to be involved in that. it to be a politically active church, you do not have to organize under a c.3 it is the organization's choice it -- take advantage of status.exempt

>> the president of the constitutional accountability center. you, thank you for being with us on this sunday. it.ppreciate >> the washington post reporting that voters report long lines, intimidation, and confusion toging from texas pennsylvania. seems to be proceeding in many states, some they expect the reported increase. 80,000 voter since the beginning toearly voting, and expect reach 175,000 reports by the time the poll closes. you can read more details at the washington post. c-span is covering the race.ential live coverage starting at 8:00

eastern. all seats are up for elections. 218 members needed for a majority. in the senate, a third of all. 10 democrats are up for elections. coverage from canada for an .nternational perspective the canadian broadcasting corporation election night and hosted by peter man spread. >> election night, tonight on c-span. be on location at the hillary clinton and donald trump night headquarters and watch victory and concession speeches. live at 8:00 eastern throughout wednesday. watch live tonight on c-span or

listen to the live coverage at.g our radio >> the victory and concession speeches in the 1992 presidential race us. concession from george h.w. bush the acceptancein speech by bill clinton. >> thank you very much. thank you very much. thank you so much. here is the way we see it in the country should see it. we respect the majesty of the democratic system. i just spoke to governor clinton and offered my congratulations. i wish him well in the white house. want the country to know our

entire administration will work closely with his team to ensure the smooth transition of power. there is important work to be done, and america must always come first. to all who voted for us, voted me, here and all across the country, thank you for your support. we have fought the good me, figt and kept the faith. believe i have upheld the honor of the presidency. now i ask that we stand behind our new president, and regardless of differences, share same purpose, to make this

the world's greatest nation more secure, and to guarantee every american a shot at the american dream. i would like to thank so many of you who have worked beside me to improve america and literally change the world. thank our great vice president, dan quayle. [applause] the face of tremendous pounding, he stood for what he in, and he will always profound gratitude, and certainly my respect. salute so many did special work. bob peter who ran the campaign. our entire campaign.

i would like to single out to leaders of the ideals of public service. together they have helped beat word -- world through unprecedented transition. i am talking about my national security advisor. ants my good friend and fellow texan jim baker. finally, of course, i want to thank my entire family with a special emphasis of a woman named barbara.

she has inspired this entire entire and i think the country will always be grateful. tonight is really not a night for speeches. i want to share a special message with the young people of america. i remain absolutely convinced we are a rising nation, difficult time , kept not be deterred away from public service by the smoke and fire of campaign year politics.iness of , i will serve and try ways to help people, but

i plan to get very active in the grandchild business. i urge you, the young people of participate in the political process. your idealism, your drive, your conviction. my congratulations to governor clinton, to his running mate, special thanks to each and every one of you, many of you have been my side at every battle.olitical may god bless the united states of america.

>> wait just a minute. first thing we want to do his team together and make it work you are not too happy. we can make some changes in 94, right? the main thing is now time is precious. it takes us all working together to make it work and i will be talking about that in a minute. we've got work to do starting right away as our country needs all of our help. [applause] want to thank all of you who are here tonight and all the people who have come together across the nation.

starting last february, you did something everybody said couldn't be done. millions of you came together to take your country back. [applause] you gave washington a laserlike message to listen to the people. [applause] you have done an incredible job of getting this country turned around to the type of country our founders established, a country that came from the people. this countryged through your massive efforts and i compliment you for it and it was really in, the way you did it. [applause]

as i have said on a number of out of they wife is grain of sand of the oyster. i have been your grain of sand that you have chose and it has been an honor to be your grain of sand in this process. to workcontinue together to make pearls as necessary in the future. fair enough? [applause] the american people have spoken. they have chosen governor clinton. congratulations. wait a minute. wait a minute. the only way we are going to make this work is if we all team up together. at's give governor clinton big round of applause. he won. [applause]

forget the election. it is the election, behind us. the hard work is in front of us and we must all work together to rebuild our great country. you, the american people are the greatest people on the face of the earth and if we would just put our differences aside and team up together, we can rebuild our job base, we can eliminate the deficit, we can eliminate the debt, and most importantly, we can pass on the american dream to our children, right? [applause] and on the way, we can reform our government and get rid of some of these problems that are so damaging to all of us.

to the millions of volunteers who asked me to serve as your ,andidate, as long as i live one of the happiest memories of my life will be the memory of working with you. that's memory will never dim. it's the nicest honor i will ever receive in my life. thank you very much. [applause] there are people here tonight and across the country who literally gave it everything they had, seven days a week since last february to take this country back and give it to the people, to pay its debts, to pass the american dream on to our children and i want you to

know how proud i am of you and how much all of us know you for the tremendous effort you have made. god bless you and thank you very much. [applause] it is just the beginning. the next step is we need to take all of our energy and harnesses -- time is not our friend. time is our enemy. these problems are country faces need to be solved immediately. andeed to all work together work with the new administration and give it a world-class best effort to get these problems solved to now because if we do,

you benefit, the country benefits, your children benefits and everybody wins. we have got to. [applause] spend about 10 minutes getting over being frustrated that your candidate didn't win. then take all of this in norma's creativity and talent you have displayed and let's make our country work at the national, state, county, city, local and neighborhood level and every single school across the country. absolutely. [applause] fact that we will go time and do anything good for our country to help a new administration as an organization does not mean we will compromise our principles or integrity in terms of what

this organization stands for. [applause] we will never change that one filter that everything has to go through and that is is it good for our country? that filter,rough we will back it hard and we will use all the enormous ability that you have to get things done for the benefit of our people and our country. thing is don't lose your enthusiasm. don't lose your great love for this country and lee's don't feel i'm powerless again. as long as we are together have in norma's

voice in this country. andwe will stay together you will be a force for good in our country and for our children. [applause] >> united we stand! >> thank you. like the little children who are here tonight, this college students who have been at all the rallies all across the when you look at them, you are looking at tomorrow. a brightere them tomorrow than any other generation has ever had in our country.

if we keep it that simple, that pure and that clean, we can make an enormous contribution and that is what we must do. we will have our organization established. we have a nationwide network, a state by state network, a community by community network and we will keep it intact to be a force for good throughout our country. [applause] the best is in front of us. believe me. [applause] this is no time to get discouraged. this is no time to throw in the towel. this is time to redouble our efforts and work with the new administration to make sure our country is a beacon to the rest of the world, to make sure our

alabaster cities that gleam, undimmed by human tears, and make sure every little child across america is only limited by his or her dreams and their willingness to pay the price and make the effort to make those dreams come true. that is what america is all about. [applause] and that is what you are all about. god bless you. we love you. and i want you to know that my love for you is permanent and i will carry the memory of this, these past few months with me for the rest of my life. anytime,lable to you anyplace, anywhere as long as i am around. god bless you. thank you very much.

[applause] mr. clinton: my fellow americans -- [applause] day, with high hopes and brave hearts, in massive numbers, the american people have voted to make a new beginning. [applause] this election is a clarion call for our country to face the challenges of the end of the cold war and the beginning of the next century. to restore growth to our country and opportunity to our people,

to empower our own people so they can take more responsibility for their own lives, to face problems too long ignored from aids to the environment to their conversion of our economy to an economic giant. and perhaps most important of all, to bring our people together as never before so that our diversity can be a source of that isy in a world ever smaller where everyone counts and everyone is a part of america's family. [applause] want to begin this night by thanking my family, my wife, without whom i would not be here tonight. [applause]

and who i believe will be one of the greatest first ladies in the history of this country. [applause] [chanting "hillary, hillary"] mr. clinton: i also want to say a special word of thanks to our daughter for putting up with our absence, for supporting our effort, for being brave in the face of adversity and reminding us every day about what this election is really all about. [applause]

i want to thank my mother, my brother, my stepfather, my mother-in-law, my father-in-law, my brothers in law and my sister-in-law who carried this campaign across this country and stuck up for me when others were trying to put it down. i love them and i thank them. [applause] people ofthank the this wonderful, small state. [applause] time after time, when this campaign was about to be counted out, the arkansas travelers x

loaded around the country to tell people the truth about what we have done here together, how we have pulled together, what we believe in and what we can do as a nation. i have the best staff and cabinet you can imagine and even when we were not here, we continue to lead the country in job growth and keeping taxes and spending down and pulling the people of arkansas together to show what we can do if the nation pulled together and moved forward, too. people inthank the that infamous group, the friends of bill and the friends of hillary -- no person who ever saw this office was ever aided by friends of a lifetime and i will never forget you. i want to thank the people in the new democratic party, headed by our chairman, ron brown, the new members of congress, the new

blood, the new direction and finally, i want to thank the members of my brilliant, aggressive, unconventional, but always winning campaign staff. [applause] they have earned this. i want to say a special word of thanks to two people who lost their lives in the course of this campaign, without him we might not be here tonight. our friends, paul telling and vic razor. they are looking down on us tonight and they are awful happy. [applause]

ago, i received a telephone call from president bush. [applause] it was a generous and forthcoming telephone call, a real congratulations to you and an offer to work with me in keeping our democracy running in an effective and important transition. you to join with me tonight in expressing our gratitude to president bush for his lifetime of public service, for the effort he made from the time he was a young soldier in world war ii, to helping to bring about the end of the cold war, to our victory in the gulf war, to the grace with which he conceded the results of this election tonight in the finest american tradition. let's give mr. bush and his family a hand. [applause] i heard tonight mr. perot's

remarks in his offer to work with us. i say to you, of all the things he said, perhaps the most important that we understand here in the heartland of arkansas is the need to reform the political system, to reduce the influence of special interests and get more influence back to the kind of people who are in this crowd tonight and i will work with him to do that. finally, let me say how profoundly indebted i am tonight , beyond the folks at home, whond the wonderful people worked in this administration, the lieutenant governor and others, who cap the government going. be on the others, i have to say special word of thanks to my magnificent running mate, senator al gore. [applause]

give him a hand. thank -- i want to tell you that out and tipper, hillary and i have become friends. i admire them for what they stand for. they are enjoyable to be with. they believe in our country. almost is a man of unparalleled combination of intelligence, commitment, compassion and concern to the people of this country, to our obligation to preserve our environment, our duty to promote freedom and peace in the world and together, we are going to do our best to give you a new partnership for a new america. [applause]

i want to thank his brother-in-law and his wonderful parents. statek we carried every the senator and mrs. gore campaigned in. that we have established a partnership in this campaign that we will continue into this new administration. if we have learned anything in the world today, it is that we can accomplish more by teamwork and working together and bringing out the best in all the people we see. we will seek the best and most able and committed people to be part of our team. we will ask the democrats believe in our cause to come forward, but we will look to the ranks of independents and republicans who want to be part of a new partnership and yet on with the business of dealing with this nation's problems. [applause]

tonight, my again fellow americans, that this victory is more than a victory of party. the people who feel left out and left behind but want to do better. readyory for the people to compete and win in the global economy and need a government that offers a hand up, not a hand out. that is why we will work to tomorrow to provide this to all of you. the steelworker, the stenographer, the teacher and the nurse had as much power as the president, the billionaire and the governor. you all spoke with equal voices for change and tomorrow, we will try to give you that. you can trust us to wake up every day remembering the people we saw on the bus trips, the people we saw in the town meetings, the people we touched at the rallies, people who had

never voted before, the people who never voted for a democrat, the people who had given up hope, all of them together saying we want our future back and i intend to help give it to you. [applause] i say to all of those who voted for us, this was a remarkable coalition for change. many of you had to put aside this or that ambition to be part of a broad, deep commitment to change this country. i ask you to keep that commitment and move from election to governing. we need more than ever who said let's put the public interest over personal interest to keep it there so we can turn this country around. i say to all of those who voted those. bush or mr. perot,

who voted for the president, those who voted for ross perot, i know you love your country and i ask you to listen to the voice of your leaders and join us in creating a united country with a new sense of patriotism to face the challenges of this new time. we need your help and we will do our best to deserve it. [applause] we seek to offer young people the opportunity to borrow the money they need to go to the college and challenged him back through national service. and we challenge the drug companies, providers and consumers to give us a new health care system, when we offer those on welfare new opportunity and moved to work and ask companies to take incentives and put people to work and export american products, not american jobs, all of this is part of a patriotism

to lift people up and enable us all to live up to the promise of our potential. [applause] thecept tonight responsibility you have given me to be the leader of this, the greatest country in human history. i accepted it with a full heart and joyous spirit. but i ask you to be americans again, to be interested not just in getting, but giving. not just in placing blame but now in assuming responsibility. not just in looking out for yourself, but looking out for others. very place one year and one month ago shay, i said we need more than new laws, new policies or new programs. we need a new spirit of community. a sense that we are all in this together.

if we have no sense of community, the american dream will continue to whether -- to weather. together and this we will rise or fall together. my message to the american people for the past 13 months and it will be my message for the next four years. together, we can do it. together, we can make the country we love everything it was meant to be. i still believe in a place called hope. god bless america. thank you all. [applause] trump campaign has filed a lawsuit in nevada claiming people were improperly allowed to vote and some polling locations were kept open longer than scheduled on the last night of early voting. filed in state court claims people who are not in line with the polls close in las vegas locations were able to

vote. you can read more at cnbc. sudan is covering the presidential race and key house and senate races. publichouse, the largest and house majority since 1928, of for election every two years in a house. 218 members are needed for a majority. in the senate, a third of all seeds come up. insured is for republicans and 12 democrats. live coverage from canada tonight for an international perspective with the election night coverage and programs hosted by heater man's bridge. we will have that live on c-span two. >> election night, tonight on c-span. results and be part of a national conversation about the outcome. be on location at election night headquarters and watch victory cap concession speeches. :00ting live at eight

eastern and throughout wednesday. watch live tonight on c-span or listen to our live coverage using the free c-span radio app. >> next, a look at presidential history from c-span's in depth. this is one hour and 40 minutes. bill, every four years we are told this is the most important election in our lifetime. is that true? >> every time it's ever been held, yes. >> why is that true? figure in the white house, a new figure of state and of course the passion of the voters and so forth. >> when you talk about a symbol of state, how important is that? >> very important to. having the presidency is all

from the kingship and it's a two-pronged thing, symbolic president and manager of the government and it has been from the start and some are good administrators and some are battle-- better symbols and i think it's the characteristic of the office. they have to be both, really. >> in your book, the leaders we deserve and if you didn't, you write that if great or near great presidents were shaped by numerous experiences with people from all walks of life the unsuccessful spent most of their adult lives in a single pursue politics. >> that's correct and if you look at some of my failures, james buchanan probably had more jobs than anyone. he waited all of his life to be president and it was a goal from the time he was in the state legislator. he conspired behind his wife's back to run for president.

she did not even know he was one of the candidates and joshua was stunned when he received it. we think of others. failure brings a lot more out than success they're greasing of lincoln lincoln's many failures, death of his mother and sister as a child, not a good relationship with his father. his father renting out other firms because he was a big burly guy and was not paid for his own later-- labor. he was determined to make something out of himself and we think of roosevelt and polio in the story is very well known. you might have been present without that, but he might not have had the empathy. he was a very spoiled child. called the feather duster by his fellow state legislators. then, it truman's failure with business. these things tape-- help a great

deal in testing a presidents character. ones with the inflated resid-- resumes don't always do well. george bush, the further we get away from him, there was a unique head of state, not very partisan. one could argue he threw away his presidency with that tax increase, going flat-- back on the pledge seen there might be called to head in the middle east he was willing to do that. he should've explained why he did that later on, but still he is the one with the endless resume that did very well. by the way, martin van buren did terrible luck as president. the magician, and the schemer, not much up to being a presidents and was much better as head of the democratic committee. i say that i stand by it? host: abraham lincoln had no business being president, ditty? i mean, when you look at

his past? guest: yes and no. if you look at government experience, we had-- we forget he was the leader of his party in the state legislature in illinois. we really forget that the years out of office he was probably the most prominent lawyer in his county, his state, his region. he was an attorney for the illinois central and a very famous defense attorney, so, i mean, in our time if we were to look at someone like david boyd who comes to mind, f lee bailey of our generation, he was in those rings work he wasn't getting his attention in those days, but he understood politics and how to get clients and how to cash in. he certainly was born-- he did not die rich, but

he did die middle-class. so, i would say if you are looking at government office, one term in congress, but looking about a symbol of his era and galvanized by the popular sovereignty and the dred scott decision, mobilized with a passion that he had not had before and that passion is what drove him to the presidency. by the way, before we go on people forget he-- we also douglas, but that was when the state legislature picked the senator and we all start by gerrymandering and get out the vote. democratic legislators versus republican. his party did much better, but the democrats through the district picked the senator, but everyone knew that was a pirate to victory.

as soon as he loses to douglas he gets the telegraph to come to cooper union and show his stuff to the establishment and you know the rest of the story. host: kate andersen brower who is the author of two books, the residents about the white house and first women. here's a quote by rachel jackson, andrew jackson's wife: i'd rather be a doorkeeper in the house of god then within that palace in washington. guest: i think it's very difficult for a lot of first ladies and martha washington, george washington's wife talked about being a state primitive-- prisoner and michelle obama has talked about feeling like a prisoner in the white house and i thought it was interesting when she set about some presidents not even telling their wives that they would run and they win and they were surprised and you look back in history a ladybird johnson even though she was financially supportive of lbj he was very dismissive of her and when he was right for congress he did not even tell her the first time until far along in the process

and i think another thing-- i think there is a sense among these women that they are kind of being dragged along into the white house and it's a sacrifice for them. i think with michelle obama you see that to give up a lucrative career giving up-- making more money than her husband. as the first lady you can't work and then you get criticized no matter what you do and i have talked to 31st ladies who talks about how frustrating it was and a matter what she did she knew there would be a largest segment of the population who would hate her and, so she said she did what she wanted which-- included sitting in capital means and being called a steel magnolia. people forget about rosalynn carter how she was kind of a precursor to hillary clinton in many ways. i think the two of them have a lot of common. maybe, generationally if rosalynn carter had been born later she would

have been more active and sought out a west wing office which would've been unthinkable in the 70s and obviously hillary clinton having a west wing office did not break so well for her at the time. democrats lost in the midterm election of 94 and she blames herself for a lot of that, so i think there is a definite prison like element for these women. host: here's a bit of video of michelle obama talking about living in the white house. i guess we don't have that video. i apologize for that. guest: rachel jackson, though, she was the first first lady they were cruel to an andrew jackson never forget john quincy adams, but there was a scar, stephen mistry of their marriage. she was married to another man and they went down from nashville

which is not much today, but was a long time then and claimed they were married, but there is no record of them being married and they went back to nashville and gossip was everywhere about it, so they married again and when he ran for president his best friend, judge overton, wrote a long essay about the situation. judge over sin had a lot of integrity and he told the story, but there was one might he said: and so they say they were married. so, there wasn't much defense nor would it have been surprising. host: build-- bill feel what's been your involvement with the white house? >> i wrote a history of the white house and starting with the last two weeks of president nixon and ending with president reagan for the white house historical association which is a nonprofit support for the white house and they publish things and raise money and occasionally by some dance object

like benjamin franklin's busters on paper the white house, so i wrote the book and the security was not was-- what it is today in the generosity of the chief -- as sirs-- ushers i got a really intimate look at the place. host: how did the white house come about, originally? guest: it was called for in the constitution in the residence act called for two buildings and george washington was so happy with the site that was selected on the potomac halfway through the country that he realized that they had to have a building. they had 10 years with the amendment, 10 years to move it there and he knew they had to bricks and mortar, so he settled on the white house instead of the capital because that rattled on and on and controversy and it was so huge. he thought he could finish a house. first one he agreed on

was five times the size of what was built and then he agreed finally on a country house designed by an irish american named james hoban. he washed every stone that went into it. he wanted it finished by 1800 picked that was the deadline, november 1, and it was. it was built in the cellars of the huge house that was dug. it was just a little house by comparison. seemed very huge and the scottish men who built the house, the stonemasons, they knew the stone very well, very porous stone like they had in scotland. to seal it they whitewash it, to fill in the holes and cracks and it became the white house. host: kate andersen brower, how big is it, humming floors and rooms? guest: looks like it's only three floors on the outside, but there are two basement levels and there is a state floor and then to a second and third floor, which is the family's

private living quarters that includes a solarium, which is this incredible room overlooking the washington monument and it's really a family room for a family and in fact, the obama's and architectural digest last week released photos, which was incredible because they are very guarded about those areas as you can imagine is feeling place they they can really relax. so, it has several different levels. six levels to the white house into hitting areas where there is a pastry kitchen for the head chef and it chief offer-- ushers office, so it's huge of the basement level, the basement kitchen is where the residence staff gathering have legendary together and in the 60s and 70s there was actually kitchen with a chef and they all loved her. i thought that was incredible. it is sort of our version of "downton abbey" that was taking place at the white house and you don't ever think

of that world and also, i mean, i was a white house reporter they never thought about the butler's who serve the first family or who actually runs the private side of the white house and i think that is fascinating, the relationship that the butler's developed with the family as kind of a lifeline because when you live in a white house you feel very isolated and they are so close that in fact laura bush and her daughter-- one of her daughters went to the funeral of james ramsey who is the butler who i interviewed who came up from texas to go to his funeral, so it's more than lip service. its real devotion. guest: if you read a servant at the white house memoirs, you better think that is not usual. those people don't write memoirs, the ones that are really close and they know, they just don't do it. it's a good analogy to a country house, english country house not because anyone is trying to be shelley, but because it works.

it's public and private, first private, but it is what makes it work. all those people with all those jobs. they are carpenters, a plumber, a painter in this work goes on constantly under the chief usher and it is the residence and it is like a country house long ago. host: kate andersen brower, how did you get access to so many of the long-term white house employees for your book: the residence? guest: i interviewed close to 60 former staffers and that's important zero that they are all former staffers and it was difficult to get them to talk. it took years and some would only say positive things. you know, they don't want to reveal any secrets about the family that would make them look bad, even negative things were said in a positive way like for instance when i talked to one usher about what it was like during monica lewinsky.

anyone's interested in what that was like and he told me a story that hillary clinton during the height of the scandal coming down from the second floor and asking to just go to the pool with some books. it was a sunny weekend in august, and the president had just publicly admitted his affair with monica lewinsky and she just wanted time alone by the pool and it was a small story, but i think it's a telling a story, that it was actually not for to do this for her pure chi did not want to see anyone and she didn't want any secret service staff to see her, so he described this gargantuan effort to give her three hours and an afternoon sitting outside by the pool and he said she looks like she had been crying and i think the staff felt very protective of hillary clinton at the time. they felt she had been through so much and was very embarrassing long story short, it wasn't easy to get them to talk and they really do love

the family they serve. there's a lot of allegiance there and they do not rights like you said although jb west wrote a wonderful memoir about his time there, but jackie kennedy was really mad he did that. it is not something that the first family likes. host: you also have a quote by skip allen, white house usher about the clintons. they were about the most paranoid people i'd ever seen in my life. guest: yeah, i mean, there are people-- guest: he was fired. guest: not skip, chris emery was fired. skip left on good terms, but there are some allegiances that form. of these are human beings and they do have opinions, i mean, they are not overtly political, but skip was talking about how the clintons changed the phone system and they used to have an operator connect the phone line, but the clintons did not like to think people were eavesdropping, so they had to-- they

wanted to make calls themselves and did not want calls transferred, which i think is understandable to want in the modern era, but to the ushers and i think bill would say this is the case that everything is about tradition and they don't like anything being upended at all, so that kind of speaks to the sense that the clintons were trying to do something differently and that did not sit well with some of the staff. caller: don't you think within tradition, the clintons were very traditional. she was with the rooms, working on the rooms. guest: i mean, i don't think of them as traditional at all. she had a west wing office. guest: that kind of thing, but the social side of the white house with the butler's and things, i always thought they wanted everything to be a stickler for the way it was. guest: that a difficult relationship with the secret service. they all do, but the clintons-- host: why do you both agree with that statement? guest: we have a number of memoirs and secret service

agents. host: you said they all do, all the presidents do? guest: you get close to people you i guess they see that no person is a hero to their valet. they see some of their faults and try not to listen to the faults that they hear, people's comments about others and they keep their jobs by not repeating it most of the time, but they all had likes and dislikes and i suspect some of the rumors we have heard particularly about the clintons and the transition, it was a rough transition not between the bushes and the clintons, but between the clintons and staff old and new. we had an early brouhaha around the time of travel gate story that one of the ushers us that he was moved out for daring to show a former first lady barbara bush how to operate a word processor or e-mail. guest: with her memoirs she called for help and they clinton staffer found out and he was fired.

host: he was treated disloyal. he thought he came with the traits-- drapes. someone asked a professional question and i answered it, but they thought differently. we have had these not very good stories coming out, but some presidents were-- some just drop their code of macgyver and after it. they are close enough, closest to the president guest: on a number level the secret service gets its orders from outside the treasury department and there are things they have to do professionally and sometimes it doesn't exactly melt with what the family who has had its own level of discipline-- independence, they don't want to conform to that, but the secret service is not theoretically under the president. guest: interesting history to that. goes back to the first mrs. roosevelt. remember he came in

after assassination and this was a outdoorsman, tough guy. he would go skinny been in the potomac and writing in rock creek park and no one was going to tell him what to do and his wife was terrified that he may be a target. this athlete running around washington and no one to protect him, so she went behind his back to the secretary of treasury and he managed to get the secret service to not be in command of the president, so if someone said mr. president i cannot stand down you have to talk to the secretary of the treasury and that would give him five minutes to calm down. host: in a larger context, alvin felzenberg, how is the presidency changed over the last -- but the elections? guest: how many? host: fifty-eight times that whip on to the polls. this will be the 58th. guest: i often tell my students

to think of the present as uninvited guest in your living room. that was not true in the early days, certainly was not true until the advent of radio where i'm not sure most americans when the government did less, unless you were a hero like andrew jackson who had a silhouette in every tavern in america, the second savior, battle of new orleans and things like that and lincoln being martyred. i'm sure his photograph was in every schoolhouse -- well, even when i was growing up lincoln and washington were in every school, but it wasn't until the job became more. coolidge was one of the first to be known on the radio. someone did a poll once in his voice was addressing-- and not all guest: he did not do what fdr did turkey did not speak off-the-cuff. the guy gave a fireside chat while you were in your study, nice and

comfortable. he did them on sunday nights. lets me just talk to you about banking and there was a famous story that was told by traveling salesman who was stuck in chicago, my apologies to the people of chicago for a weekend and it was very very hot and he walked several miles across chicago just to get his exercise. every window was open and every radiohead roosevelt voice, fireside chat. that was a transitional point. kennedy, then perfected the art of television. television was in its infancy. 1960 election was second or third on television, but really the first one where everyone had television

my parents that-- [inaudible] host: we are going to hold it there because i think your microphone fell off and we want to get it on. brandon will come in and take care of that. while we do i wanted to show video from 1912. i think you guys will be able to figure this out. >> it's called the old way and the new and it opens up with this very rich fact bureaucrats who comes into his office where one of his flunkies is dutifully dusting off portraits of

theodore roosevelt and william howard passed, done together as example of the old way of doing things, so he has lots of money and he is dispensing favors and their is all sorts of bribes and political corruption, taking on their contrasted with the new way of doing things, represented by woodrow wilson who is the champion of the common man and the film actually ends with a plea of people to send 1 dollar to the democratic national committee on behalf of the woodrow wilson campaign because woodrow wilson is the common man. republicans are for the wealthiest 1%. somehow those tropes have not changed in the last 100 years.

host: bill seale, that is supposedly the first campaign ad ever, 1912, woodrow wilson. guest: i knew it, but-- guest: people would see it in the silent theaters. up with come the odd like they have poor rice or potatoes or something else and wilson was running against that awful establishment. he was going to represent the small guy again for the guy and take his money from the american people. here, you have a farmer sending a dollar. i guess it was a penny staff. guest: honest dollar. guest: excuse me? guest: honest dollar. host: in the white house the history of an american idea, bill seale, you write the white house has become as much a part of america is the presidency itself. guest: you can't separate the

two, really. truman is the one who really understood that, but it's such a symbolic combination. imagine the president living in a high-rise in colorado, which was proposed at one time or eisenhower even proposed a high-rise behind the white house to the south and he would live on the top two floors like all of the generals from world war ii had at the waldorf. the public went crazy and he said i never intended to do that. i do think it's really inseparable. guest: it's interesting, i mean, people do talk about donald trump if elected maybe not moving into the white house and we don't know if that would happen. guest: we have had that before. guest: i have actually wondered this since adam, who has not lived-- was it grover cleveland? guest: hit a young bride, he was 20 years older than she was and she was quite a beauty.

the press was very just sit with her and he did not want her at the white house. she went to formal occasions, but they had a house in town. guest: cleveland park now. guest: she had 34 pets, so it was the old man and the young girl and she had chickens and rabbits and dobermans. than she had her own pet. president truman, when the secret service and everyone said the house was not habitable and not safe, moved to blair house for most of his demonstration. guest: not by choice, though. that was renovation. it was not as though he did not think it was good enough. guest: no, no, nothing like that. guest: it was falling apart. guest: i would be surprised if any president could go too far away with all of the staff.

truman had no choice, to do what he did which was really heroic. it would not be the symbol if he had let people do what they want to do. guest: i have to say that was the election and the republicans had a button that said truman was screwy to build a porch for dewey. guest: built that porch and anger, you know. he wanted to extend down 17th street from the west wing. huge office complex with a theater where he could make addresses and others could as well. it went through and then it was stopped in congress and they took the funds away your key was serious, so he asked no one, fine arts commission, no one and paid the money out of the household budget to put that porch on the back speech--

host: good afternoon welcome to book tv on c-span to pick this is our monthly end up program and usually we focus on one author and his or her body work. this work-- month we are talking about presidential and electoral history with three authors. bill seale is one of our guests and he is the author of several books about the white house including: temples of the bacher c. the white house, the history of an american idea. the presidents house and blair house, which just came out for is just coming out. he is a professor. he taught at columbia university in south carolina, university of houston, lamarr university and has spent quite a bit of time as a consultant on state capital restorations. guest: the ticker interest. host: and alvin felzenberg is also with us. he is the author of the book: the leaders we deserved and if you didn't. he is a lecturer at the

annenberg school of communication at the university of pennsylvania and top four george washington for quite a while and princeton and served as principal spokesman for the 911 commission. he is also with us as is kate andersen brower. her two books, the residence inside the private world of the white house and first women: the grace of power of america's modern first lady's. she spent four years with bloomberg news covering the white house and has worked at cbs and fox. we will be talking about a lot of the history of washington, presidents, first ladies, elections. if you would like to participate in our conversation here's the way for you to do it. 202-748-8200 if you live in the eastern central time zones 748-8201 for

those of you in mountain pacific time zone's. dial-in and we will get your calls as quickly as possible. you can also make comments on facebook. facebook.com. /book tv or you can send us an e-mail, book tv at t cell.org and finally you can send a tweet at book tv is our twitter handle, so there are lots of weight to communicate with our three guests. earlier on, we talked about michelle obama and her view of the white house. we have a little video we want to show you. >> white house has always been a place that had attention, the tension between being a public site and being someone's home and i think that tension plays out all the time in every administration. visibility that they constantly face is part of the stress of being in the house and i think one of the challenges is to make peace with that, to recognize that to survive you have to realize that it's okay

that part of my life is completely in the public , even when i come home at night and the other part is to find that space of protection. find those things that both allow you the privacy that you need, but also allow you to revel in the house you are in. >> i tell people that it feels like you're living in in this beautiful hotel and at the ground floor is the lobby and when you step out into it you will interact with a whole range of people, may be a group of tourists are staff members, special visitors and staff and you feel like greeting in them and then you get into the elevator and you go into your quiet, private, personal space and it feels very much like you are the only people living here. host: kate andersen brower. guest: will come i think that it is very interesting to see the different first ladies over time deal with sort of negotiating life and that the white house

and i think for someone like michelle obama she felt a lot of pressure as the first african-american first lady. when i interviewed obama , they talked about how she did it really necessarily look to the first ladies of the past because she was in such a unique position and she also felt rightfully so that there was an additional amount of scrutiny that she would have to deal with, so, which is a reality. i think it's interesting to see while women's world and society has evolved a bit i think the job of first lady really has been slower to change and americans are not very forgiving in terms of what i first lady is allowed to do and also we will see if we do have a first gentleman if that changes anything, but every first lady at least from jackie kennedy to michelle obama has grappled again

some of these constraint. you had jackie kennedy leaving the white house constantly to write her horses and also trying to deal with raising young children in the white house. i think the resident staffers who are interviewed their favorite family was the bushes, bush senior and barbara bush because they were very summative, very carried. they knew people's children's names. they will call and say it's a pm, what are you still doing here, go home to your family. that's very unusual, but i think part of that might be because they did not have children and they were privileged in that sense that they did not have the added burden of feeling-- michelle obama talked about herself at the dnc which he said how conflicted she felt watching who-- her two daughters get into the secret service man and watching them go to school for the first time and she got what have we done and i think

for women there is this definite added a level of pressure that these women feel. host: you say the hw bush family was the favorite. who have you found to be on the other side of that? guest: that's the question everyone wants to know. i think-- i do think that nancy reagan said-- reagan was a difficult first lady because she was such a perfectionist. i think some people really liked working for her and i interviewed a couple of white house cloris who described being relieved working for her because if she said i wants six dozen roses in a vase on the pedestal and you gave it to her she was thrilled, but very very specific. a chef told me if she asked for asparagus and you gave her green beans you better have a good excuse. i think she understood the majesty of the white house. gorbachev came for the historic visit in the 1980s and she had the flower arrangements changed three times in one day in every room of the white house because she wanted to quote

unquote knock his socks off and she-- guest: a word as of the four to first ladies. number one, i think history will be very kind to michelle obama. i think it's already kinder to her than the president. a lot of things about her we already know and i must say the press is not kind to her when they ran the first time. we have the awful new yorker cover of the two of them in half rose with the fist bump and that was supposed to be a parody of how the new yorker that. certain people conceived it was not helpful. that we have the stereotypes of the angry woman, which is long long gone. i have a list of winners of this campaign and she is certainly one of them we will talk about the losers later. that speech at the convention, about how her daughters felt having their father

legitimacy question. that was the most human speech i have heard a first lady get. the other tribute i would say is so much time has been paid on nancy reagan the perfectionist, nancy reagan on the china and all of that, jamie stewart said a very telling. he said if ronald reagan met nancy before he met jane wyman he would never have been president. she would have seen to it that he got all of the parts and he would have been harvey, spirit of st. louis. she wanted that presidents just-- was the president's protector and every well he and she was willing to take the hit for him. took many hits and bad press and that was the price she was willing to pay. guest: she was called a t the behind her.

people were brutal. guest: the idea of not only the first lady firing the president's chief of staff, but sitting with the transition team , that's never happened and she never had her own agenda. it was had why help ronnie. guest: don't you think most first ladies have been that way, but in the personal sense of anything for him? guest: yes. guest: mrs. roosevelt wanted her piece out of the middle, but she did that for other reasons, but most of them, it's the guy they live with, that they are married to and that's what he wants that he wants it for her also. guest: in terms of her firing the chief of staff she went to george hw bush and she wrote about this and she said we have to get rid of him. he had hung up on her several times and ron reagan said you could maybe hang up on my mom wants, but not twice. she said george hw bush than vice president she said we have to get rid of him and she said if

you are not man enough to i will and she did, so ron reagan, their son, talks about his mother in glowing terms, terms of she took a lot of heat because she wanted everyone to love him. i think she was very brave. she really didn't care. she wanted what was best for him, always. guest: that's why brought it up because i don't think she has gotten her do. apparently, there was a photograph in time magazine of reagan seated himself between reagan gorbachev. as if he is writing a script for both of them. guest: her management of the white house was not totally unlike the management of a film in hollywood. everything is worked out. there are no questions. the costumes, three for each person in case copying all of that, you know. every little detail is worked at because it's money and i always

thought she kind of followed that anyway. she was used to it and so was he. host: bill seale, you brought up eleanor roosevelt. what was a life like in the white house from 33 to 45? guest: roosevelt was handicapped and he occupied a little itty bitty room beside the library upstairs or get a stamp collection-- collection and toys , but people he wanted to see, they would have to come and spend the night. so, there was this big strain of the people that ran through the house more than ever before that were there all the time. it was full of people. was full of kids and animals and everything and mrs. roosevelt did not take eight interest in the house and that's when the furnishing commission-- committee did the red room. the housekeeper asked and got permission to cut the new red curtains off 10 inches from the floor so the vacuum cleaner would fit underneath.

it was run that way and people say two houses, but i don't think entirely so. the roosevelt had his own group and she kind of made a group for herself. would you agree with that case? guest: i do. i think it's interesting because she really nagged him, writing him constantly. guest: irritatingly. guest: he would see her coming and just because she really cared about civil rights and issues that we now think our progressive, but in the same way roselyn carter really nagged jimmy carter about issues and it got to the point where the end of the day she would at this folder of papers and she would want to talk to him as soon as he got off the elevator. it got really annoying for him and he said i deal with this all day. schedule a lunch with me and then they started having weekly luncheons -- launches. guest: carter never grabbed the spotlight; right? guest: no, not publicly, but she did get into trouble for sitting

in on cabinet meetings. she wanted to so she would know what to do. guest: one-story would like to say-- two stories. fdr. he used to have his famous martini parties every afternoon at 4:00 p.m., 4:30 p.m. guest: that's early. guest: work i do stop and everyone had to watch him make his own martinis. he was proud of his recipe. i read some of the letters. eleanor would come within her back up at the bag down and tell him about her day and he did not want that. this is his one and a half hours we would have without any work and she always spoiled the party , so he would try to find other ways to do this. in the current "vanity fair" come and there's an with president obama and she tells the story about when no ordinary time came out her book about the roosevelt's and all of these people that would not leave the white house.

churchill would come for weeks on end. several other folks and she said that she and her husband and bill and hillary once spent an evening trying to figure out with the white house blueprints, how could you get all these people in here and they finally decided it wasn't mathematically possible. guest: the clintons did that, also. like you are saying, that clinton's embrace the history of the white house. they read memoirs about the butler's. so, late at night they would go up and rearrange furniture in the curators i was told would get frustrated because when they were bored they would rearrange furniture and everything there is perfectly documented and they know where everything piece of furniture is, but the clintons-- i can imagine them poring over a blueprint and enjoying that.

they have an appreciation. guest: they are both very interested in history. guest: i worked on the blue room and mrs. clinton came in at all hours and she actually participated. she solved problems that the committee didn't and it looks like the blue room now and of course she was raised in that business. her father was they say a draper. he was obviously very successful as the big decorators and all that. host: bill seale, has every family had an impact on the white house and what? guest: in one way or another, yes. they have and of course their stories, emotions of their stories are there and you always think about it and paramount has always been the lincoln melodrama because it all happened there and he was brought home dead from the theater. it's a very compelling story. this family just went to

pieces at a time when the nation was 20 pieces and repaired for a while. yeah, i don't think you can escape the stories. guest: i was going to do an architectural issue and i couldn't just do the building. it's how they live, what they do and the things they do get changed often by the next people because it's a stage and they know it and they wanted to look like they wanted to look. host: are abraham lincoln and john f. kennedy the only two who have lain in state? guest: no, they all have. the first was harrison. host: in the white house? guest: in 41. he was only there 30 days. they did not know what to do, so they hired a very prominent department store owner-- they did, a department store, but he invented

the funeral and he did patterning somewhat on george washington's ceremony. the body was never there. it was in washington, but they drape the house of black-and-white and everyone sort of followed that since. it's gotten simpler and simpler, but even for kennedy the big light fixtures in the east room had black on them. the mirrors used to be covered up and they were left 430 days in morning at the house and so all of them had been-- i think of one now. guest: i have seen the party of national geographic with the-- i saw the pictures of that. mckinley. i don't know if he was taken back to washington i don't know. guest: it was in stay in the east room. host: what about james garfield who was shot washington? guest: his body was in the capital.

it may have been briefly at the white house. i just remember, but another big show was at the i-uppercase-letter mean big thing. guest: to your point about kennedy and everyone thinks about the brett-- black crêpe and replicating what they did for lincoln, but there's a great oral history given by an upholsterer and he talks about how it was actually just black fabric that is on the bottom of most chairs and he had just happened to order yards and yards of this, so when jackie kennedy asked him if we have anything like this he thought i just happen to have these yards of very-- it's not quite as beautiful as you would think it is it's just this black fabric. we probably have some are here. guest: did kennedy say she wants it like mrs. lincoln? guest: absolutely. had the library of congress historians working all night. guest: i interviewed him and he

talked to how jackie kennedy had her wits about her when no one else did and, i mean, to the point where when all of these heads of state were coming that morning and the oval room and she said we need to move out all of the french paintings and get in the american-- get in some american paintings because i don't want charles de gaulle in the world leaders to see all of these european artists. of course, she loved european art, that she understood the importance of showcasing american art to the world. host: she was making calls from america-- air force one on the way back from dallas. guest: she must have been in complete shock and the amount for someone to, i mean, well under 40-- i think she was 36. guest: thirty-four. guest: third youngest first leading history. incredible i think when you watch the video you

have to think she is in complete shock by the whole thing, but the staff that i interviewed talked about how they felt they couldn't cry because she was so stoic. i talked to an engineer that worked at the time and he recalled standing there and she was coming in to see her husband's casket and she was so-- she was not crying in the staff were crying and they turned to face the law because they felt they were embarrassed that they were showing so much emotion when hear his wife was so brave. i'm interested to see that jackie movie coming out soon with natalie portman. host: when you see the movie the butler, how accurate is that? guest: it's loosely based on the life of eugene allen he was a butler at the white house and everyone i talked to said it was nothing like him, but i think it's, you know, its amalgamation of several different people. i interviewed his son and he said my parents were good people. a movie about them would

have been really boring. his mother was not an alcoholic, for instance. there was not this kind of drama and also eugene allen played by the rules that would not have gone to the chief usher and asked for a raise, was told. bill hamilton who was the head of the storeroom did ask for a raise in the late 60s and so it wasn't eugene allen who did it, but it's an interesting look at how mostly african american staff dealt with life the white house and how close they came to the first family. host: you know, african american staff at the white house was high society in washington. guest: yes. guest: they had their own debut, debutantes and they had a famous dance that ended with world war ii, i think, call the chandelier ball. the silver, the chairs, everything was taken from the white house to one of the big hotels and it was a very classy event. they were kind of at that peak that washington had.

guest: almost all the women in georgetown, wanted to say they were employed a white house butler, so i interviewed one of them that has since passed away and he formed an association white house butlers and he said i was mr. westray. i was introduced at these elaborate parties and the hostess would say white house server. host: kate andersen brower, was that his daughter that set you satisfy dollars to take yourself out to lunch? guest: yes, his daughter's at me $75 after my book came out just to thank me for bringing her father's work to light and i just thought that was so incredibly generous. you don't really get that. is you know, when you write a book you don't expect what are your sources to send you a check, but that's the kind of people they are. i mean, i still keep in touch with a lot of them on facebook and they are friends and if you go to

funerals. i went to cletus clark's funeral and it's a very moving thing, i mean, you see past staffers, current staffers, but i will tell you i was not -- at his funeral, which was very large, the current staff are not keen on talking to a reporter on talking about what it's like they're now. host: do you have a reputation now that your book is come out? guest: i think it's good, i mean, when i first started out they were very wary, but once the book came out and saw it was in kind of a totally airing dirty laundry, they have been easier to talk to. george, butler with the obama administration up until 2014, he would not talk to me for the first book and in fact, might have hung up on the. and went out to his house and interviewed him for my second book. i think they're just weary and did not know what a reporter will do to their story. host: 202-748-8200 if you live in the eastern and central time zone and went to purchase state today. 202-748-8201 if you live

in the mountain and pacific time zone. you can also contact us via social media. we will scroll through those different ways that you can contact us. also want to point out some of the things we had been showing you today all come from c-span.org. if you go to c-span.org, and you click on the series button you will see an american president series. you will see a first ladies series. you will see american history tv as well. white house documentary and also a blair house document tree. all of these things are available to watch as c-span.org and we have been using a lot of these resources as well and we will continue to use them throughout this program. let's begin with a call from neville in the cleveland, ohio. hello. you are on with bill seale, al felzenberg in kate andersen brower. caller: i would like to say that

i like to visit presidential museums and libraries. i have been to eight and also far. i would like to get the comments from the historians on how well the museums and libraries present presidents? host: neville, which once have you visited and which ones have been your favorite? caller: i have been to lbj. i have been to both bushes in texas. i have been to mr. carter's. i have been to truman's. i been to the one that gerald ford has in grand rapids and also to jimmy carter's in atlanta, and bill clinton's in arkansas. i still have a few more

to get to. host: thank you, neville. guest: extraordinary list. you have gotten through more than i have. my sense of this is, as time passes and the presidents become more part of history rather than former presidents we are able to reassess their time and they become less the official story of the president and his staff and shall we say protectors. the truman one has been redone many many times-- at least twice that i know of an very recently that johnson museum has tried very hard to actually stare into the vietnam war. i suspect this is not the high point of that exhibit when he was an ex-president. he probably did not want to think much about the work. look at johnson's memoir , vantage point, heedless of thousand-- or quantitative president.

he did not want to talk much about the war except how the work-- [inaudible] guest: they had a series of panels this/on the vietnam war and johnson's role in the. i would say the same thing about watergate. of the early nixon exhibits were very controversial how they present a watergate, how they redone watergate. i would say that about it, but i would say they are pretty accurate. i mean, the museum is managed-- well, the archives are managed by the archives. them easy them is managed by the presidential foundation. now, they vary a lot in accuracy and objectivity with time. as i say, when the presidents become part of history we have a rethinking of it. often people will tell you it takes a few decades after a president has left office before we really begin to rank them accurately and

newspapers command diaries come out and books about residents come out and we see back stores of the white house, but i think those libraries are good national treasures. they are wonderful for children and wonderful to teach about american history. they are able to see the presidents were, replicas and various things that have happened. i cannot stress the importance of them. host: bill seale, anthony tweets in, is there a time capsule in the foundation of the white house? caller: yes, in the entrance hall. it was originally put it in 1902 by president roosevelt and everyone witnessed it and people who weren't supposed to put things in put them in, whiskey bottle and stuff. and 52, 50 years later when president truman rebuilt the white house on the inside they opened this and saw that everyone had put their cards anyone supposed to. so, a new time capsule is created and put in

the floor at that time with old content and new ones. yes, it does have a tynecastle. host: let's hear from bill. caller: good morning. i wanted to comment on susan butler's book that came out about your half ago about the meeting with truman shortly after fdr died and truman less than particularly friendly way of dealing with him. he goes in the-- in the lecture she gave on c-span and it's just almost eye-opening. she comes close to saying if she doesn't actually say that had fdr lived than we might have avoided the cold war. ..

he was dumped from the ticket in 1944 because full was too close to the soviet point of view. , roosevelt elected dies shortly into his last term, and while i suppose everything truman proposed gets the berlin

, and madeainst nato excuses for style and, the flower child and the kremlin that was predictive of all this. . we had this famous photograph of the war ending with the sailor kissing the nurse in times squared and all the boys are coming home. the russians never left. they liberated stalin and stayed. liberated hungry and stayed. took a major part of the eastern front. you don't see too many russians in d-day because they were taking the biggest hit in the east. they thought they were entitled to these territories. now truman thought that he could deal with s his first comment was wrong that he reminded him of party bosses in st. louis, and i can handle him.

so i think -- i take a much different view than she does but many people agree with her. host: just a month or so before franklin roosevelt spoke at his inaugural. [video clip] >> hi, franklin delano roosevelt, solemnly swear that i will faithfully execute the office of the united states, and to the best of my ability preserve, protect, and defend the constitution of the united states. >> so help you god. >> so help me god. >> the president delivers a brief inaugural address. today areicans of period ofrough a

extreme test. it is a test of our courage, our , of ourour wisdom essential democracy. it if we meet that test successfully and honorably, we shall perform a service of historic performance. of historic importance which men, women, and children will honor throughout all time. as i stand here today, having taken the solemn oath of office come in the presence of my fellow countrymen, in the thatnce of our god, i know it is america's purpose that we shall not fail. seale, what are we seeing? t was dying, basically, and he didn't go to the capitol.

they had the first inaugural not at the white house. there was one swearing on the south porch and he was dead in, what, three months in april. that was in january. the swearing official public swearing in at the white house. >> guest: the only time. always at the capitol. >> host: when did they move it from march to january? >> guest: that was -- the roosevelt-hoover transition was a long one, not a very happy one, and hoover was frustrated because he cooperate get roosevelt to accept some of his ideas. roosevelt wanted to blame everything on hoover and start anew. so nothing was happening. roosevelt thought it was an experience no president-elect should go through again and moved it up to january 20th, to shorten the time of the transition. >> host: you write about roslyn carter thinking that january was too long to remain in the white house. >> guest: yeah.