>> another just to see the state of the union. and a look at the presidential race with managers of the donald trump and hillary clinton campaigns. ♪ >> this is ronald c white. he discusses his book "american ulysses: a life of ulysses s. grant" ronald c y, author of -- ofald c white, author "american ulysses: a life of ulysses s. grant" ronald: the men of middle height.

accompanied by a young boy arrived in a crowded baltimore in 1960 -- 18 tuesday four. he held a cabbage and asked them to take them to a hotel. the men and boys stepped through the carriage and want directly to the front desk. demand, 42 years old and wearing a travel status duster asked for a room. brusquely, did they not know that in wartime washington, two rooms were available? especially at willard's? the clerk dallied and then informed the traveler that he could give them a small room at the top floor. that would be fine, the men said softly. the clerk asked the guest to send the hotel register. when the clerk turned the register around and read the son.ture, u.s. grant and

he turned pale. he asked - why didn't you tell me who you are? the bluecould see was uniform of the union officer. he had seen posters portray the hero of the west everywhere in washington. suddenly attentive, he learned that he was reassigning grant and his son to the powersuite. the best in the hotel. the same that abraham lincoln had stated when they arrived in washington. -- stayed in when they arrived in washington. he opened it, finding an presently canjoin at the reception of the white house as the guest of honor. because he had not served in the eastern theater of the civil war. everywhere.

the outline of his rise to fame for still wondered out loud, who was he? when sohe succeeded many had failed in the past three years? why had the president elevated him to the position of attorney general? the first man since washington to all that ranks? why the link and ask him to come from the west end theater to lead all of the union armies? the war started in 1861. book thateading your does the first time that grant had ever met lincoln? ronald: this was the first time he had ever met him. rent was out in the west. he had government grant before. that particular date would have been where in the civil war history? their: the troops were in winter quarters prepared what he

expected to be the rate spring campaign. that was started in may. the overland campaign where greg would march into virginia remembering that four times marchedthen why ms. had into virginia and four times before, they had retreated humiliating retreats. >> how did you put that particular story together? abouthink it says so much who grant is, the lack of pomposity, the self of basis that he was -- it was part of who he was. the only designation would be the stars. by contrast, i think today's leaders, it says so much about who this man is and why america did not simply admire him. they really loved him. side -- decide to do the eula sets grant

--ulysses s. grant book? ronald: we knew that the commemoration of the civil war was coming so it seemed appropriate. i have to confess to myself after about a year and a half of working on this that even though he was obviously an important figure in my link in the artery ln biography -- linco biography. when i write a biography, it is not just what they did, it is they are. i think that is what the american people want to know. >> he was born in 1822. ronald: that is correct, point pleasant, ohio. >> they had migrated west. he is often looked it as his great individual hero.

he saw himself as part of a family story. he looked back through the prism of a generation of grants. gradu -- gradually migrated west. he was a tanner. >> if you are here, what would he look like? : nadal, 57 -- not tall, 5'7. this is in 1864 photograph that they have colorized. you can see his blue eyes. i think you can see through his eyes into his own. when he walked into the white house, nobody knew he was. of abrahamstory lincoln looking over the crowd -- saying " it is

a pleasure to meet you." there are complete opposites. was not a grant great of a speaker. he feared it. abraham lincoln was a great public speaker. he grew up 55 miles east of cincinnati. his father, told him that he wanted him to go to west point. it says something about the relationship of parents and children. he did not really want to go. he said to her father that if you think i should keep -- should, i will. many want to west point and did not serve afterwards. they ended up being engineers for railroad and much more lucrative jobs. he barely made the cut. he was there until he graduated

in 1843. this was the largest pulsing in st. louis. people are heading west to protect the settler's rule. there, he left his room eight's -- roommate's sister. they formed a marvelous marriage. >> when did he get married? how old was he? ronald: they didn't get married right away because he did not want his daughter to marry some vagabond soldier. he would have rendered a businessperson. so grant went to mexico. young man. he was assigned duties of quartermaster. he did not want that, he wanted to be in the fight. he was on some occasions. he came back in 1848 to marry her.

he was taken by, not her beauty. with crossointed eyes. -- cross eyes. he was drawn to her, she was much more vocal than he was. she was four years younger. they both loved horses and would ride together. they found this incredible match. interesting story, if i may. a person approached me about four years ago. he said this talk about doing a television miniseries. what you tell me that is most remarkable about him? let me start by telling you about julia. look at their marriage. they should their head and said that will never do for television. a wonderful marriage. he said there has to be internal tension.

when i thought about it, there is internal tension. his family was totally anti-slavery republican. her family was strongly proslavery. her father owned 30 slaves. her brother gave her poor slaves. her father gave her poor slaves. i don't think people understood this situation that they were marrying into. >> how many children do they have? >> they had four boys and a single girl. they were all quite successful. on a trip abroad, they met a young englishman was not a good apple. she divorced him. she had been living in england. she then lived with her family and that her mother after her father died. >> what about the boys? ronald: yes, the youngest boy

became what a remarkable person. he served as a cabinet officer. a west point graduate. the two younger was moved to san diego and established the u. s. grant hotel. >> where else did they live other than st. louis and ohio? ronald: thank you for asking that. i think it is so important to visit where a person lives. he was posted after the war with mexico in michigan and new york. in 1852, he was sent to the pacific coast. -- he could not take julia because she was pregnant. julia, terribly missing her, he fell into despair and drinking. he was threatened with court-martial. it, he wroteceived

back to the secretary of war was jefferson davis and offers is recognized -- offered his resignation. he returned to julia. years were very difficult. not always his fault. marketcumstances that it, he did not go well for him. northwest to illinois. aey moved their and it was million in situation. his father said that you can have a place. he will serve underneath your younger brother. when he arrived without fully understanding if you was the only west point graduate and the arrived in the spring of 1860. >> who did he go to west point

onh that thought -- fought the confederate side? thought on thel confederate side. the most famous was james lob street. -- long street. he was his dear friend. when grant arrived, his name was ulysses.an >> he said unless you are u.s. grant, you will be the wrong one. he was known as sam grant at west point. >> what happened during the civil war when he had these who

were on the other side? he respected them. longstreet told generally that he did not think he knew who he was going to be up against when he bought ulysses s. grant. this was a very difficult time. these men all both on the same mexico. is an excerpt from the bunch that we have found in our archive. we have had a series of fires greece in the last 30 or 40 years. >> there is no victory for the

law of the union. >> i do contend that grant saved the union during the construction -- reconstruction. >> this is forever linked. >> in his lifetime, for decades after his death, he was regarded as the greatest american hero that i can remember in the 19th century. and you disagree with? ronald: i think there is much more to tell. why did you think that? ronald: the reason that grant said that he does not read biographies is because they do not tell the story of the boy who becomes the man. friend joan law would

say that her book is not a biography. it is a wonderful book on how we understand grant in memory. i decided to spend more time on the young grant. i spent a week at west point. trying to understand how this man can finish 21st out of 39 at west point and sometimes food as a historical intellectual lightweight. he said himself that i must apologize, i spent all my time reading novels. also, i'm the first person that has had the privilege of looking at all 33 volumes of the grant papers. i don't think we have had the complete story because we never had the complete record of grant. why were you able to read the 33 volumes? ronald: they have been in the since 1962.

i also believe this. without any comment about this particular stories that we have. we have a modern phenomenon. we can write about historical figures by sitting in our office and doing it online. i really believe that we have to go to these places where grant lived. the battlefields where he bought. even the grant papers which were at university as mississippi state university, that is quite a story. there is so much more at mississippi state university then there is a net 33 volumes. i have made many trips to the grant papers to try to understand and a deeper way who this man was. some video of a man who was very helpful to us when we were covering the original ones. he was at southern illinois university. you can take your hat to him. did you know him? ronald: i never had to privilege

of knowing him. i say this to his widow harriet. >> i take great tribute to him. >> i attended a meeting of the civil war centennial commission. newman and other friend from a asked if i would to hit the papers of ulysses s. grant. it seemed like a good idea at the time. especially because i did not know that the directors had borrowed money from the bank to fund that enterprise. it was the springfield marine bank. no other bank would have been so bullish -- foolish.

casually, it began a commitment lesson the remainder. i have little idea of the extent of his correspondence. after grant wrote as little as possible. >> having known the man, i should say that he was very funny. >> i have never seen that take before. in 1920's and 30's, there was an american president series produced. they wrote the biography of grant in 1935. that is exactly what he said. there was no collection of grant papers anywhere.

therote that before collection of the grant papers. he has no understanding whatsoever. the question, why did he fall, he began to fall earlier. even in the first third of the 20th century, nobody had any .dea i apologize because i write novels. he did not just write his novels. he had an imagination. he talked about how tremendously popular he was in the 19th century. what do you think would happen if you took a survey of the american people today? ronald: let me pause for a moment if i may. i make that assertion because of the year 1900. the first year of the 20th century. roosevelt said there

were three great american figures. george washington, abraham mikan .nd ulysses s. grant he said second rank were benjamin franklin, thomas jefferson, thousand hamilton and andrew jackson. that is how he understood it. the idea that was first propagated by generals that the better side lost. they were the better side, the christian side, the chivalrous side. they all lost because they were overwhelmed by greater numerical numbers and a greater industrial mind. and that fletcher ulysses s. grant who was willing to sacrifice his men. the casualties under him were

actually under grants, less than underlay. actually less under grant than under lee. the story that i want to tell, ulysses s. grant defended the right of african-americans, nobody wanted to tell a story. he doesn't seem to be part of the story that he deserves to be. to answer your question, he fell all the way down to 32 or something in recent years. it has begun to rise. he has probably risen 10 or 12 places. i think he deserves a much higher ranking in terms of american leaders. >> how much total time that he's been in the military? 43 or 54. he reentered and 61.

he continued to be general in chief quite remarkably during reconstruction. even while he was running for president. he was both general and chief and the candidate of the republican party. he retired from the military. his inauguration was march of 1869. >> what did he do to continue to be in the public spotlight between lincoln's assassination? he was general in chief. he was very deferential to civilian leadership. he tried to work with andy johnson. pretty quickly, he discovered he would not. he just as quickly discovered was goinges s. grant to be the republican party candidate to replace him. it was nonpolitical by

definition. -- 1864 when lincoln suffered a string of unpopularity, he said that he supports lincoln. he became very conversant with congress. he served as secretary of war. he was in johnson's cabinet. he continues an active life during those years of reconstruction. andhat was the up close personal relationship between andrew johnson as president and u.s. grant? ronald: more fraught with difficulty. he tried to figure out a way to displace grant but it was also the popularity of grant. he tried to order him to mexico. you have it love affair with mexico. i want you to be my special

envoy. he said no i won't do that. criticized public leaders but he broke with johnson. he could not speak anymore. he would attend cabinet meetings. he would excuse himself after that. he was at would not participate in the rest of it. >> what with her big differences? ronald: the congressman were putting in the 14th and 15th amendments. johnson did that recognizes and wanted to receipt all of the former confederate states. often, the delegates would be confederate generals. a way of that this was destroying everything that had been fought for for four years. >> what it andrew johnson do

that and did he have his eyes on his second term? southerne was the only senator the state within the union. the truth came out that he really wasn't this union person that he was a southerner. he led from that point of view. he felt that the south have been unfairly maligned. he wanted to bring them back into the story. there was underlying racism that was part of his policies. he was not for what the freedom this bureau was doing. not for voting rights of african-americans. >> what was the friedman -- bureau?'s well grant started receiving reports of how african-americans were treated. all of the soldiers who were

listed in the civil war at the beginning of 1861, their terms were running out. for member, african-americans were listing is civil war. downsized, 36%as of the union army was african-american. 36%. these african-american soldiers, 90% of who were from the south. they were now patrolling the streets of nashville and new orleans and atlanta. the conflict there was inevitable. about the drinking of both andrew johnson and u.s. grant. impact did the drinking have on either one? ronald: i know the humorous story that when abraham lincoln was inaugurated for a second up fromhnson had come nashville and stated himself. he had had a glass of whiskey. as he got to walking over to the cavalry, yet a second one.

then he had a third glass of whiskey. the vice president also gave an inaugural address. people leaned over and said don't let andy johnson speak. i think the story of grant is much more complicated. we have people who swore that he had done a lot of drinking. people who swear that he did not. he probably drank when he was away from julia. when he was pulling into a depression. i do believe he was a drunkard, alcoholic. i think the drinking disappeared when he became president. this is part of a younger person's life. the drinking was a deal that he had to deal with. how much of the grant papers did you read? ronald: i think i read every page. >> did you read it in print or

online? ronald: i had to highlight them. they must report -- remarkable things do they are by microfilm. julia saved everyone of his letters. in those letters, we discover that grant was willing and able to express his feelings. in a personal relationship with to doat he was never able in public. i found that through those letters, there was an insight into the inner ulysses s. grant that you don't find in the speeches to the public. what motivated him during those years? ronald: this sense of self abasement. he was not after some position. he was almost surprised at his own ability.

in the public letters, he always give credit to his troops. he did not take credit for himself. julia a great love for but also his family and what surprised me again was given his west point record, he was really for the education of his children. he really wanted to move to princeton. he could not find the right house there. he wanted his children to study german. he wanted his children to study french. pursuant of their education. findhree boys all into schools. sometimes nelly was put down as someone who wasn't as educated. tutored though. julia was quite educated for her time. where did he reside in the world? reside near pasadena in california.

have a third greatest lincoln collection. a wonderful civil war collection. friend jimand mcpherson has spent four years of his life at the hollywood library. think southern california would have all of these resources but mr. huntington, along with j.p. morgan was one of two great collectors in the early 20th century. they were five great lincoln collectors. he bought a second up-to-date five. that is where the huntington's a marvelous place to do what i am doing. >> how did you end up at the hudson library? >> a marvelous place to do what i am doing. in my own family journey and intellectual journey, one day in 1993, i put on the largest lincoln exhibit ever put on. i was not a lincoln scholar. row. in the back

nobody invited me. i was teaching at ucla. i had a choice of offering a seminar. students 35 my minutes to the huntington. i will find someone, not made to give them a lecture on lincoln. we all started lincoln -- reading lincoln together. i came across the second one. i said my goodness. i know something about the gettysburg address but this is a document i don't know about. i tried to find a book about it. there were none. i thought i will write the book. ucla? a phd? one of the words i see a lot is theological. explain that. i am also a graduate of the princeton theological seminary. believe is that there is a presence of an absence and the stories.

that is the absence of the base story. that is so important. it certainly was only lincoln. , hesecond inaugural address mentions god 14 times, quotes the bible 13 times. he uses a lot of religious language. for ad there is something more profound going on there than that. here in washington, the new york avenue presbyterian church, the pastor became his spiritual mentor. preached the sermon. abraham lincoln asked for a copy of that sermon. there have been no mention of a space story. arrived27 euro pastor at the same time. this was john yeldon said. -- john become this yeldon vincent.

a spiritual mentor to grant. they corresponded. there is a methodist story here. grant's -- parents were methodist. first national church in washington was not the national cathedral. they methodists were the largest protestant subsector. grant was a trustee. that was the story that has not been told. -- i'm a presbyterian minister, yes. i have been a pastor. when i was at southern illinois university a couple of up in what wass a very unromantic looking area. why we don't have to

like this on the record. is there anything about the u.s. grant that we did not like? he walked over to the papers and i don't remember which volume and he opened it up and he said there. it was his anti-semitism. i have some video of a gentleman and jonathan tsonga talking about this. >> this was the most terrible at this medical act -- anti-semite act. it was the only time that jews had been expelled from class anywhere in the united states. can you explain? >> yes, he has this wonderful

book where it was called grant expelled the jews. what was taking place was that he was very excited and angry about the fact that washington to takewing trading place in the very same area that union forces were trying to shut down the confederacy. trading was feeding the confederacy because it was giving them supplies. he believed the jews were the leading traders. offered and him noxious auditor -- and of noxious order. -- an obnoxious order. when abraham lincoln saw this order, it was rescinded.

there are another two stories behind this. he was also very upset that his father was now in the employee of a form in cincinnati and had come south to dissipate in this kind of trading. he was very angry with his father for doing this also. said in the rest of his book, the fact that grant learned from this. he became incredibly retentive of what he did. he tells the story that needs to be heard. grant, more than any other person appointed jewish people to significant places in his administration. he attended the installation of the first synagogue in washington. he reached out and jews became very up and she said of his efforts on their behalf as president of the united states. what he did was terrible. he learned from it. dealingsd his future with jews.

your notes are a hundred pages of notes. it covers everything. 26.s is the page 4 at chief of staff chattanooga spearheaded an effort to raise money for the celebrated general in chief. he said he was asked everywhere how much his pay was. his standard reply was not enough to support the position he holds at all. he bestowed a check for $105,000 for grant. >> this was after the civil war. during reconstruction. >> why would he take money like this in a position from the outsiders. >> this was not unusual. they did this for sherman. grant should have been

far more aware that there is no free lunch. went to begin to take money from these people. we know this issue today is beholden to. he received a hole in philadelphia. he received a home and galena. this is part of what he did. he hankered after something that had never been a part of his life before. some money to support himself. has a staff you could never imagine. he became cozy with business leaders. >> another story, i am jumping around. on page 483. he and julia returned to the white house after a summer's absence. she expected the work to be done by all the crackers and painters. he asked her about the new paintings and statues spread throughout the house. what is the story there? is partthe story there

of the gold panic. there is an effort to corner the market on wall street. sister has married someone who is a part of this effort and so, without him fully realizing it, they are trying to draw him in. they are trying to learn what is going to be the government policy toward money. suddenly, these things show up and grant is immediately suspicious, fox's them all up. >> where do they come from? fromd: they came perpetrators were trying to ingratiate themselves to grant. >> why relate going on the white house walls? >> they does put them all up on the assumption that they were ordered. >> chapter 31 starts off this way. mark twain used the parity of westminsterrian

cataclysm to attack the worship of money as a corrupting influence. twain wrote mark this book the giving age. the giving it is associated with theulation and money and scandals of his second administration. it is often a part of the story. we know that when people come to washington, sometimes power can corrupt. grant dropped people into his administration who had been loyal, able people in the civil war and could not quite believe or understand how power began to corrupt them. other people began to make charges. grant would be defending them when they should not have been defended. they became part of this gilded age in this rush to earn money. >> if you think he might from outsiders at the time, wouldn't he have been damaged in some way as to his clearview?

ronald: he was never implicated in any of the scandals. should not have taken that money. nobody ever accused him. what they accused him about was not being awake and aware. not being a student enough that this was happening around him. dylan to recognize when it took place. >> what happened between mark over?when it was all ronald: what happened was came to a b. hayes net. he set off what would be a private tour. love traveling to new places. travel was education to him. his great surprise, he was treated as an american hero.

he thought it would only be in england, scotland and europe. months traveling the entire world. , did a variety of business ventures. son went into a business venture on wall street. you'll is a senior but all this law firm. this everything collapsed. he walked onto julia. between them. at that point, the century magazine had approached him to write his memoirs. -- dwight as a car eisenhower, there was one written. grant did not like memoirs because they were lifting oneself up. now he needed money. he agreed to write his memoirs.

century magazine wanted him to write them and offered him $10,000. he was about to sign the dotted line on this. mark twain rushed over to his home. he was very approving and appreciative of grant. in his own language, he said $10,000, that is what you pay a comanche indian to write his memoir. i will write your memoir. he persuaded grant, it was very difficult. grant said i will sell 300,000 copies of your memoirs. almost at that moment, he was diagnosed with throat cancer. what i call the final campaign was his race against death. as he raised his memoirs to earn for julia. there was no presidential pension. he completes the memoirs. three days before he dies. it is an amazing story. twain publishes them. he offers 70% of the proceeds.

out-of-printnever would earn $450,000 for julia of 9010 three money -- of 19th century money. wax why is it that so many people praise that as the best memoir ever of a public official? lincoln disappeared after the gettysburg address. there is no egocentrism in his memoir. there is a wonderful power of lighting. grant push this right into the story. maybe he would win. writing. the idea of tips -- eschews adjectives. he got many personal reminiscences from grant.

these became part of the memoir. grant gave his own thumbnail sketches of white abraham lincoln is the greatest figure of this era? it is memorable to read this. spare englishar language. he likes the saxon language. >> from the time he started writing to the end, along the taken? -- how long did it take him? the word was out that he was dead. mark twain wrote in his journal, he said the whole nation waster here whether he is alive or dead. , everyted to die community across this nation, there will be bills being run every -- wrong every 30 seconds.

63 bells. that was the stature of grant. he soldiered on. he went to mount mcgregor. to get away from the heat and humidity of new york. he was going to finish this memoir. it is an amazing story. the doctors believe that he only lived as long as he did because he knew had -- he had to complete the memoirs. you say in the book that 750,000.a new number, ronald: yes, that is dead. analyzed the census data during that time. he discovered these young men who were no longer alive in 1870. the figure is more like 750,000

other than 620,000. 600 20,000.an we had not calculated the casualties correctly. >> it is much more difficult to calibrate because the records are not nearly as clear. i don't want to make the calculation. >> you know the number of soldiers. theost twice as many as in north and south. about 180,000 african-americans. why did he succeed in the civil war? if you think about it, no one had ever led an army of more than 14,000. graduated first

in your quest at west point but that did not mean you could manage an army of 150 or 250,000 men. to keepd the ability fighting. what lee did was he shifted his interior lines. when he had a force attacking him, he would fight that first. then the fighting would cease and desist after two or three days. there was no resting and refitting for granted. he kept the forces going. also, he discovered that the forces cannot discover the coordination. he had five different armies. he said these armies must attack in a coordinated way. if we attack here, there is no coordination. that gives the troops the ability to withstand our attacks. he gave his chief generals the

ability to manage their own operations. he was not a micromanager. he trusted them. this gave him the companies to move forward. the difficult relationship with -- george need. grant said i am not moving you. i'm placing my confidence in you. >> when in your elected to become a writer? life did you become a writer? ronald: i never had the time to write full-time. i could see myself having this possibility. degree, whengical did that start for you? ronald: pretty early. differenceighed the

between ring a teacher and a pastor. i grew up in california, born in minneapolis and moved to california >> at age four. whether any ministers in your family? have you changed your mind at all about religion? ronald: i want to be the kind of person who is grateful for my past, what i've experienced. i'm not necessarily there. experience opens doors. you can never imagine when you're young. in one sense i have a basic, central belief in term of the christian faith. the world around us has changed rapidly and we need to be willing and able to change with it. and to see new possibilities, new challenges. the whole component of social justice. i think the whole civil rights era, the martin luther king story challenged me to think about this in fresh ways.

i am writing about what is called the social gospel. that, social christianity can confront the issue of race. historically, in the decades before it. that is behind this book. convert ulysses confront racial injustice. >> one day there were african-american leaders and the white house. he said i look forward to the day when you can ride on a railroad car. you can eat in a restaurant. you can do so along with every other person regardless of race. that they must come. it took 90 years. grant was the last american president to hold these kinds of views. we think of barack obama as the first president elected with a

non-mutt -- nonwhite majority. was the first person elected with a nonwhite majority. he only won the popular vote in 1868 because 400,000 african-americans voted for him. by 1890, a few thousand were in the south. this is the story of ulysses s. grant that needs to be told. how the person who stood up against voter suppression of his day, that was the goal of the ku klux klan, support the vote. he wanted to stop that and give african-americans the right to vote. please tell people where you went. places did you go to study. probably 20 or 25 places.

ronald: i am indebted to many national park historians. there is libraries. are a lot of different documents in different places. they don't always aligned with the giant of faith -- geography. these papers are in dallas, texas. i don't think he had ever written a day in dallas texas. they said, we will take them. many of the 33 volumes are digitized? all of them are digitized. volume will be published. is to be a special volume. i don't fully know the conversation. the hope is that this will become a very first-class one.

i have seen it but not in the final stages. my wonderful executive editor at mississippi state was helpful. you talked about his remarkable horsemanship. you talked of the many conversations he had with the wranglers where he rode. ronald: i didn't realize that our physical education classes were horse riding. written -- ridden near south of tucson. about grante people and horseback riding. that is not our culture.

when people of the 19 century understood grant as a horse was gentle to who horses. one was gentle to horses is a gentle person. i like his story as a horseman because is that a lot about his character. went,the places you people who are grand followers and don't travel much, give them one place to go? i would say pittsburgh. the topography is great. there were no trees at that time. fire zone.is this was the most complicated battle. it took the longest to win. it was very important because of the freedom of access. this was a masterstroke.

lincoln andout grant. he wrote grant a letter after he won the battle of gettysburg. i said that when you decide to do this, i could not agree last. he and his letter by saying general grant, i was wrong and you are right. called "american ulysses: a life of ulysses s. grant" our guest has been ronald c. white. thank you very much. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

>> author james robinson on his war: theer the civil civilians who changed america." walter star talks about the relationship between abraham lincoln. author of the biographer john quincy adams, an american visionary. you can find those interviews at c-span.org.