of them. trump's kellyanne conway. kellyanne: everyone wants to go back in a time machine and make sure this results ability saw coming. robbie: we won the popular vote. announcer: they take us behind the curtain and revealed a strategy. what sealed the deal for trump's historic win? kellyanne: he was able to tap into the frustration of job holders. robby: the fbi director sent to letters with out reason. we would have won without them. this is the most overly gated story in the history of american politics. kellyanne: that incident affected donald trump's numbers significantly. announcer: a deep dive with the man and woman running the campaigns. our exclusive interview on annex -- the exclusive state of the

union start now. jake: hello, i'm jake tapper where the state of our union is still quite divided almost one month after donald trump defeated hillary clinton. officials from both campaigns are still raw and emotional, bitter and angry, more offended than introspective. hillary clinton won the popular vote while donald trump easily surpassed the 270 electoral votes needed to win the presidency. today, we're going to bring you something rarely seen -- both major presidential campaign managers sitting together doing a joint interview, discussing how we got here. a conversation both enlightening and contentious. trump's kellyanne conway and clinton's robby mook dedicated their lives to

seeing the other party have a terrible night. >> i know there are a lot of people here wondering what happened? what went wrong? hillary clinton on the popular vote and one more votes than any white man in history, but this is a race to 270 and she came up short in states like pennsylvania, michigan and wisconsin. she told donors that she thought the letter from the fbi director, james comey was the nail in the coffin for her. do you agree? robby: we are proud of her margin in the popular vote, but this was about electoral college votes and we did come up short. we felt very good about where we were going into the last 10 or 20 days in the election. i think it is hard to imagine the kind of impact that letter had. most of the polling showed a

distinct drop and we certainly saw that in our internal numbers. particularly because the letter did not seem to have much of a purpose. he had some emails. not know whatlly they were. when you look across those three states, we are talking about 100,000 votes, anything could have made a difference with such small margins. we do think that was an incredibly powerful force in the race. the reality is, we were hoping for a stronger performance and a lot of the data was off in this race. we have to reflect on all of those reasons. >> what sectors? robby mook we were expecting to : perform better with suburban women and we saw those numbers stronger than we saw on election day and we think that was because of the comey letter. we saw young people go to third party candidates and we think the letter had a lot to do with that as well. there were a number of reasons, but lead among them would be the letter from comey.

jake: you say the shift in movement away from hillary clinton and some of these democratic group started before the letter came out. kellyanne: you see it in the polls we saw internally. abc news released a poll on sunday that said 50/38. we knew we were not under 40 but everybody had to live with that 12 point poll because people held it up as evidence that the race was over, that there was no way donald trump could win. by friday of that same week, it was a one point race. that was before the comey letter. secretary clinton herself, the night of the day that letter was released said at her rally that she, it did not matter because americans had already decided

what they thought about the emails and it was already baked in the cake and this was the messaging point from her campaign. at the time, they said it was wishful thinking and maybe they were not being completely truthful and now it is supposed to be the comey letter. donald trump turned over 200 counties that went for president obama in 2012 to donald trump in 2016. that is because of messages that connect with people in this area, not because of a letter late in the game. i do think it probably had an effect on some voters, but you want to reach suburban women and the first female running for president as party nominee, why is the message not connecting to them? jake: let's back up to june 2015. donald trump comes down the escalator at trump tower and announces he is going to run for president. it seems back in the primaries that many people in your campaign want to donald trump to be the nominee, that they thought he would be easier to be

-- beat than marco rubio. is that true and why? robby: i think many democrats did believe that. opinions on that changed as he progressed to the primary and was very successful. jake: you have been critical of the polls, so let me allow you to weigh in on a rare moment of agreement here. kellyanne: i can be critical of the polls, but the polls were wrong for a couple of reasons. it's be very clear that these are mostly public polls. our polling worked and we had five different polling firms working, including my polling firm. we were using them for internal, strategic positioning, not trying to get clicks or call the race over before it is one way or the other. i think a few things happened.

presuming between the 2012 electorate would be to 2016 electorate, that presumed conclusively that secretary clinton would be able to attract and knit together and keep together the obama coalition. a critical mass of voters of color, millennials, and maybe even running up the total among women and she's the first female candidate. she was running a decidedly reach out to women as an anti-trump message to the very end. that was a failing. the other failing was in presuming people who voted democratic in the past would do so here, we thought in our modeling that the 2016 electorate had a better chance of mostly resembling the 2014 electorate in these key states and counties, which is my

obsession, the counties, then the 2012 election. so i talked publicly early on about the undercover trump voter. the undercover trump voter, this is not somebody who is afraid to say they're are voting for donald trump. does noteone who just look like a trump voter. the union household has voted democratic for years. the single mother who couldn't think of voting donald trump. why would she do that? we took that approach where we were more open-minded about who the electorate may be and allowed them to tell us who they were. robby: turnout was not what we wanted it to be in some places and there were different stories across different states. philadelphia did not turn out the way we liked and other states were not. but the one thing we did see across the country is we did see record hispanic turnout in a number of communities. that was important to our win in nevada and colorado. that is why texas was a lot closer than many anticipated. that wasn't enough for us to win

the election, but that is something to be celebrated. that was unprecedented and i hope those voters continue to turnout. jake: coming up, the future of donald trump's tweets. he maintain control of his account while in the oval office? that is next. welcome back. donald trump took the republican primaries by storm using his celebrity and business background to propel him to the top of the polls almost from the start. but it was controversial campaign promises that made the headlines. mr. trump: donald j. trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states until our

country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on. jake: kellyanne conway was allied with ted cruz in the primaries but she joined the trump campaign as a pollster and by august, he elevated her to campaign manager. she and steve ran and seemed to get trump more focused and disciplined. the campaign scaled back some of his most provocative proposals. how important was that to his ultimate victory? i asked her to take us find the scenes. august 17, the same day steve bannon is named campaign ceo, it seems as though you and steve bannon were able to convince donald trump to be more disciplined in a way previous campaign managers had not convinced him to do so, had not succeeded -- stay on message, stick with your teleprompter, not that he only stuck with his teleprompter, but your campaign called them -- some of the gas moreps, some of the

controversial statements he made, most of them took place disproportionately before you and steve bannon took over. what did you and steve bannon say to him to convince him we will not take over but you need to listen to us in terms of staying on message. kellyanne: i don't really divulge private conversations but i feel confident telling you that i told him, you are running against one of the most joyless presidential candidate in history, it seemed to me. so why don't we not be that way? why don't we find a way to be the happy warrior?

he loved doing the rallies and connecting with people that way. you have to know who your campaign is and it's not a substitute for a quality, compelling candidate. in the case of donald trump, he gets his oxygen being out there with the voters. robby: i think what did happen, the very end of the race, there were more undecideds than in a lot of races before and we think because the director of the fbi sent two letters in what was an unprecedented intervention in the election, a total breach of protocol, a lot of those undecideds broke against us, but i don't think that was an inherent problem. i think without those letters, we would have won the election. we had a lot of fun. i'm a joyful guy. hillary is joyful. we have a lot of fun. everyone who knows hillary clinton says the person you see on stage is not the person you see behind the scenes. that behind the scenes, she's much warmer and more amusing. did you struggle to get that person from behind the scenes out to the crowd? robby: there were a lot of

headwinds in this race. the first woman to be the nominee. jake: why is her being a woman inhibiting? robby: having worked for a few women candidates, i think they face certain scrutiny that male candidates do not. sometimes, people talk about the way hillary spoke during a speech. i did not hear them remark about male candidates that way. i think the bigger issue is the russian intelligence, our intelligence agencies confirmed russian intelligence stole emails from our campaign chair and selectively leaked them out with the purpose of intervening in the election and helping donald trump. we faced these headwinds the whole way through. that was tough and i think it is -- it absolutely affected the outcome. jake: you took over when donald trump re-cast two of his more controversial proposals -- the ban on muslims entering the

country until we figured out what the hell was going on and the deportation force to round million undocumented immigrants and remove them from the country. he never explicitly repudiated them but the way governor pence talked about them, was that part of the reset for the general election? kellyanne: i think it starts with explaining what you said and putting it in a different policy prescription type of language. when the trump flew down to mexico, he accepted the

invitation and secretary clinton did not. people may say they don't like it, but at least they can read it. he has one. it there and he delivered it over 45 or 60 minutes and then i'm sure it's on a website somewhere. in that regard, he explained how he would approach the immigration system if he were to be elected. robby: president-elect trump jake: president-elect trump without question offended many groups during this election, whether mocking a disabled reporter or saying whether a judge could do his job because of his heritage. did he ever express any regrets about that? we heard from him on election night a desire to bring the country together. but that job will be tougher because of some of the things he said before you came on board. kellyanne: i won't divulge private conversations but shortly before i came on board, mr. trump was in north carolina and gave a speech. some people refer to it as the regret speech because he talked about expressed regret for

having offended anyone. withe said, "particularly my words." that is a leader, showing humility and inclusiveness and regret, to use his word. but i want to say to you this -- if you talk about the hispanics alone, donald trump did better among hispanics than did mitt romney or john mccain. he did much better among women. on the cusp of being the first female president -- where are the women saying we must have the first female president? where is the march? on fifthsee them

d.c.e or in washington, jake: let's go to a question. donald trump is known to tweet out falsehoods and other liabilities. is that something he plans to do after inaugurated? kellyanne: that is going to be up to him and the secret service but i will tell you the president-elect looks at his social media accounts, a combined 25 million at this point. he sees it as a good platform to convey his messages. i can tell you there are posts he makes that otherwise would not be heard were seen, but he's a unique person who has been following his instinct and judgment from the beginning. jake: one of the points i think

we would all be interested in hearing is that in the last week he tweeted there were millions of fraudulent votes. there's no evidence. repudiated that, he people,retweeting them, including a 16-year-old boy. i think the question arises in a room full of people who want president-elect trump to succeed, who want him to realize a vision where there are more jobs and you achieve so much of what you want to achieve, is that really presidential behavior? kellyanne: that is presidential behavior, yes. i see where you are going. are you comparing what bill clinton did with the oval office -- shall we review for those who were not born then --

int president clinton did the oval office? robby: just because a president does something does not make it presidential. kellyanne: the fact is this man is now president of the united states and is tackling very big issues. i know him very well. i'm a trusted advisor. he's committed to making good on the promises and the plans and he's going to be focused on that. we need to move on and support the president -- i don't like a lot of things people in leadership do, but they are there. and that should be respected. mean, i was raised to respect the office of the president and its current occupant no matter who he or she is. robby: i just hope moving forward from this that the campaign is over and i hope the truth doesn't get lost or sacrificed. jake: hillary clinton's campaign blames the fbi director for her

loss but it was the revelations of the email scandal the behind-the-scenes lit her top advisers. we will have more on that, next. welcome back. campaign officials point to two things they say were out of their control that hurt her campaign. fbi director comey's investigation into her server and the hacks that exposed by wikileaks private emails of her campaign chairman and campaign officials at the democratic national committee. but did clinton or any of her top aides bear any responsibility for any of this? jake: hillary clinton's private email server and we learned that the campaign chairman sent you any mail saying did you have any idea the depth of the story. we were told everything was taking care of. in other emails, it comes every clearly that there was a divide between the new guard, you and some others and the old guard. i'm wondering if you feel some

of the actions and activities the old guardian either allowed to happen, did themselves or enabled, whether it is giving speeches to goldman sachs or setting up a private email server or the decision to become multi-, multimillionaires -- did the decisions by those individuals make your job close to impossible? robby: no, not at all. we came very close to winning this campaign. and as i said, we won the popular vote. look, hillary said she regretted that it was a-up, mistake to took responsibility for it and apologized.

jake: but it happened and -- you are talking about james comey, he is in that conversation because of the email server. robby: if any of us on the campaign could have gone back in a time machine and changed it, absolutely we would have. but despite that, this was the most overhyped, over reported, over litigated story in the history of american politics. particularly because of what james comey did. there are protocols at the justice department that they are not to intervene in electoral races, they are not to report out on investigations, to the 3, 4 months before an election. this was a total breach of protocol and in and totally unnecessary. to write a letter saying we have read the emails and haven't even looked at them, it is mind-boggling why he did this. jake: one of the things that has come out after the election is james comey might not have felt empowered to do everything he did had the attorney general loretta lynch not reached used had attorneyhis --

general loretta lynch not recused herself from decision-making because bill clinton had a meeting with her on the tarmac. do you agree with that trust that bill clinton somehow empowered james comey? kellyanne: yes. that is true. the meeting between the attorney general and president clinton bothered the voters because it played into the culture or of corruption and the different set of rules for them and the rest of us. to walk across and within your talking up the grandchildren for 45 or 50 minutes. but to let jim comey be the scapegoat, in fairness, hillary clinton had a very bad time convincing americans she was honest and trustworthy. that was in everybody's polling and it was long before the investigation. jake: you refer to this as a post factual election where facts do not matter and you are

taking issue with something donald trump said. the fake news and disinformation out there, there was a crazy story toward the end of the campaign where the nypd was about to throw hillary clinton down and the bizarre story about child sex trafficking and general flynn reach we did at -- retweeteded at one point. how much of a problem was his post factual election? robby: i think it was a big problem and there's a lot of things we need to examine. congress has got to investigate what happened with russia. we cannot have foreign aggressors intervening in our elections. we know the russians were promulgating fake news. and this is with all due respect to kelly and her colleagues, this is not personal, but steve bannon ran breitbart news, which was notorious for peddling stories like this. i'm not attacking him personally, but they peddled a lot of stories on that website that are just false.

thatust not true and reinforce sexist, racist, anti-semitic notions. headlines that are shocking and insulting and should not be part of our public discourse. kellyanne: the biggest these of -- piece of fake news in this election was donald trump couldn't win. that was peddled for weeks and months before the campaign. if you look at major newspapers and major cable station networks, it is -- robby: i never said he couldn't win. [crosstalking] kellyanne: particularly print stories. we have colleagues who we all respect, some of them in this room -- if you pull the whole front page, it is unbelievable. but it is fake because it's based on things that are not true. they have no ground game.

she has more money, she has more personnel, she can't possibly lose. i'm not going to repeat the narrative here but they boil down to donald trump takes the wings off of butterflies. there's a difference between what may offend me and what actually offends me. and i as a voter am going to go that way. jake: are you at all concerned by the fact that intelligence agencies say russians were hacking into gmail accounts and and johnf the dnc podesta? kellyanne: i just don't know it to be true. the trump campaign knew this -- there clearly is a foreign actor doing it. just assuming it is true -- kellyanne: you are the one who quoted from wikileaks. jake: 17 national security agencies have said this is true. i don't understand why you are reluctant to knowledge with these agencies are saying. kellyanne: i'm not reluctant to

acknowledge it. that's not the question you ask me. you are the one that quoted from not.eaks, i did but we are not pro-government interference. robby: i have to say this, it is running on my conscience. it is outrageous a foreign aggressor got involved in our election. it should be investigated and it should never ever happen again. jake: i read a story about a woman named diane hessen who was hired to study undecided voters and talk to them about what you're

thinking. she wrote that was one moment more than any other where she saw undecided voters shift to donald trump. it was not the comey letter, it was when hillary clinton referred to the basket of deplorables. did you realize at that time that the comment she made was as potentially damaging as this one study says it was? robby: first of all, hillary apologized right away after that. misspoke.hat she that is something donald trump wouldn't do. first of all, hillary apologized right after that. that is something that donald trump wouldn't do. she regretted her choice of words but donald trump never apologized. you are talking about one instance where hillary clinton said one thing. she immediately explained that she regretted. sheyanne: i think

regretted getting caught. away.ok it back right robby: it definitely could've alienated some voters. i was proud the day after the election that hillary clinton said in her speech that donald trump is the president-elect and he deserves the chance to lead. >> robbie from the harvard kennedy school. >> i want to ask you about whether the clinton campaign was too confident or some might say air get throughout this election cycle in a way that could lead to complacency. robby: we know for a fact that some young people were voting for third-party candidates. i'm not criticizing or blaming them. i was frustrated at times and i think kelly and and i would agree when people said the election was a foregone conclusion. this habit some news organizations got into assigning a percentage likelihood to win. we need to reevaluate that system.

jake: but do you think the clinton campaign bears responsibility for that impression that this was a foregone conclusion? kellyanne: i do think there is some responsibility. when they were opening of the leave and the public media polling, things were said that the election will be over before election day. people voted like this was the truth without fact checking or verifying. announcer: the most shocking moment in the campaign was how donald trump responded. what happened behind the scenes with that excess hollywood video came out. campaigns are often defined by unexpected moments and how the candidates respond. for donald trump, his moment came when the "washington post" published this unseen footage. access hollywood. >> when you are famous, you can do whatever you want. grab them by the [bleep].

whatever you want. >> how did donald trump react? i asked kellyanne conway to take us back to the moment. who told donald trump about the tape? who watch it with him? kellyanne: the members of the team came in and took a few of us out and said, we only have a transcript of the tape. anyway, you know the rest. donald trump decided he would like to put out a video apology. two days later was the second debate in st. louis. he carried forward with that. if you look at the polling, that incident affected donald trump's numbers much more significantly than the comey letter affected hillary clinton. early voting was not underway.

most folks had already voted by the time the coming letter came -- when the comey letter came out. three weeks to the day. jake: was that your reaction? did you think oh my god, this is over? robby: not at all. i remember the meeting i was in when that news came out is we were dealing with wikileaks. still in the mills that the russians were leaking out, we had to deal with that. anyone who was popping champagne bottles was just wrong. in fact, we put out a video two weeks after that day and said we could lose this. we got a rally. we fought hard. jake: i want to move on to the

decisions.ential at what point was bernie sanders stricken from the list? we know he was on the list of 39 or so possible contenders. he obviously generated a great deal of enthusiasm. he obviously reached out to a lot of groups that you didn't find easy to reach out to. he won the michigan primary, won the wisconsin primary, two states you did not win. why not put him on the ticket? thatdid tim kaine offer bernie sanders did not? robby: bernie sanders is an important part of our campaign no matter what. we would not have had a successful convention like we did without the help of the bernie sanders. we would not have had so many supporters without the help of bernie sanders. he was an enormous part of our presence on the ground. we are very grateful to him about that.

the decision about who should be your vice president should be a decision about who you think is ready to do the job and who you can see as a partner. someone you can call on to work with you. that is how hillary approached this. and he was on that list because he deserved to be on that list and he was considered along with over 30 other people. but at the end of the day, she felt like tim kaine which represent her views and values if he had to become president. he had the background and preparation to do the job. but also that partnership and that chemistry was the right one. jake: do you think bernie sanders would have made it a tougher race? kellyanne: yes. i would like to publicly thank bernie sanders for his effect on our campaign. he softened up hillary clinton. i was at the same convention in philadelphia and the fact is, his supporters were still out there protesting her. he was in the hall being a dutiful democratic convention

soldier but his supporters were not. and you saw on election day, you read the polls and so many of on election day were upset by the way he was treated and their views were never fully into theed clinton-kaine campaign. i assume her choice of tim kaine had to do something with virginia and something with not being overshadowed. he was not effective in the end, at the beginning and certainly not the fight's presidential debate. he interrupted the female moderator about 36 times. someone -- i had worked with mike pence for over 10 years. he has been in congress for 12 years, 10 of which he sat on the foreign affairs committee.

a very effective governor of indiana. we'll only thought if we were going to bust that blue ball, it would be with a running mate who our himself with the concerns of the working-class voters. jake: hillary clinton called donald trump to concede the election but why did we not see her afterwards? welcome back. after hillary clinton conceded the race to donald trump on the phone, we did not see her get a speech. she waited until the next day for her public concession. what was going on behind the scenes? why did she wait? asked clinton campaign manager robby mook about the moment that ended her bid to become the first woman president. john podesta came out and spoke to your supporters saying hillary clinton would not comment. a lot of people were surprised that there would not be a closing comment that evening given the fact that donald trump had one. we know now that president obama called hillary clinton and told her she needed to concede.

she did call him and told him she was going to concede. the next morning she was going to get her concession speech. it took her a couple of hours to get that much celebrated speech praised by everyone. what was going on behind the scenes? robby: >> a little fact checking there. we set the time for that speech the night before. we wanted to get our people time to show up and be there. it is not as if that speech was delayed. jake: the impression was she is having a tough time with this. certainly understandable, no? robby: no, in fact some of these reports, i'm not going to get into private conversations, but she made the decision to call donald trump. she made that decision on her own for she spoke to the president and she made it because she believed, and she has said during the campaign, that it is important for our democracy that whoever wins, that to their opponent concede

the election and be supportive of them becoming president-elect. kellyanne: that is true. we had a time on when we would speak with each other that night. we emailed and agreed. i saw an emailed from robby mook and said, it is a fundraising email. and that i said look, i'm excited. jake: d two of you negotiated? yes, we had a little plan. i handed it to donald trump and he is absolutely right, secretary clinton was gracious but she congratulated donald trump and conceded to him. that is a clear point to make here. now you have people stating in a recount. as the person who was asked, will he respect the election results, will his supporters move on? i will post a question to her supporters. are you going to accept the

election results because he is your president. the right questions were being asked about the wrong candidate. i am glad robby mook just mention that because the combination of secretary clinton congratulating, conceding and then telling the american people the next day let's have a peaceful transition of democracy. i am paraphrasing her now but let's respect the process. ,into the president-elect. >> tomorrow, several lawmakers talk about their expectations for the first 100 days of the presidential election. evening, martha raddatz of abc news shares experiences moderating the 2016 presidential debates and the potential for changes to future structures. that is live at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span3.

>> at monday night on the communicators -- >> again, it is a great measure of how fast things change that we are just figuring out those two examples, cell phones and email and maybe figuring that is out right at the time when those two are not going to be as important in our daily lives. difficulty for the law to keep up with the latest shifts. : a prosecutor talks about how judges and lawyers struggled to keep up with technology. he is joined by the cyber and surveillance reporter at reuters. loved the law and policy and probably think they are better at it than they are. but i wonder if it is something that can appear -- appeal to

duty.dy to do their announcer: watch the communicators monday night at two.p.m. eastern on c-span >> former sec commissioner now with the heritage foundation. your -- atrs put risk. we have been hearing a lot about the green party, according to the news they are now going to try to force a recount in pennsylvania. recount inuted the pennsylvania, michigan, and wisconsin. is there anything to all of this? >> no. they are not claiming fraud or problems like that, they are claiming the problem is electronic hacks into the voting and they have admitted

absolutely no evidence of that and the thing is there are no central computers or voting machines. this is not like the way the dnc was sacked by wikileaks. the ability of a hacker to get into an electronic voting machine requires physical access because they are not wired together. they are not in the internet or part of any particular web process. so the idea that they can successfully hack into a large block of voting machines in a state like wisconsin are elsewhere is not going happen. they have paper ballots. host: are we better today than we were in 2000 with a recount in florida? guest: i think we are when it comes to voting equipment. in florida, the big deal was the punchcard voting equipment. there are no more punch cards being used.

the two main ways that people vote all of the country is either electronic voting machines. cap --aces use opti scannable paper ballots. it scans through a computer which counts the vote. let me ask you about another story. they call it rank-based voting. the story is available online. would you explain what this is all about and why this is getting so much attention. guest: this is a proposal from academics. it's been going on for years. you would go into a polling place and if there were three candidates on the ballot, you wouldn't just vote for the one you wanted to have when.

you would rank them. choice,d have a first second, third choice. gets theird choice your votes would automatically go over to the person you said was your second choice area that's the way it would work. it's very complicated. a lot of voters don't understand it. i'm not sure it's going to improve the way we do things already. votes decidegal elections? i think it is possible that in some close elections that could be happening. we have found cases of people who are noncitizens who are registering and voting all over the country.

, an before the election organization in virginia issued a report that in eight counties in virginia they had removed over 1000 voters who were noncitizens. 10 years in virginia, they had to statewide attorney general races decided by less than 1000 votes. host: the honor system does not work. guest: unfortunately, it's true. the started about a year and a half ago a database. we started putting in voter fraud cases that we discovered in the news and elsewhere. we populated that database. we are up to 450 cases.

these are not cases where someone say they saw something. these are cases where individuals have been convicted of voter fraud in the courts or a judge ordered a new election. cases.450 host: should there be some federal standards or a federal oversight of voting across the country? it seems like we're dealing with very close races. you mentioned the states in virginia being decided by a handful of votes. host: it's a good thing that we have the voting rights act in place. are of the motor voter laws good because it gives people the opportunity easily register and vote.

constitutionally, the states are given the authority to run elections area -- elections. it would not be a good idea to have the federal government running elections. the decentralization is a good thing. it has saved us from a lot of problems if the central government were telling people how to run elections. ast: can you point to community that is doing it right and one that is doing it poorly? state i think kansas is a that has put in some measures to do it right here in -- right. they are put in a voter id law that applies to both in person an absentee ballots. they have a statute that requires proof of citizenship. that 30rted a program states are participating in in which they are comparing voter

registration list of fine people who are voted in more than one state. we know that's a problem. almost 3 million people are registered in more than one state. a guy in 2012 voted in tennessee and florida and north carolina. host: are those unusual? guest: our databases filled with all kinds of voter fraud, absentee ballot fraud to noncitizens registering and voting illegally. host: our phone lines are open. our guest is the manager of the election law reform initiative of the heritage foundation. good morning. is there needsnt

to be some standardization of the vote. up tosn't need to be left whoever is in power in a state in 2000.blicans the katherine harris deal that went on here in florida, when the votes were counted al gore one. think about what the consequences of that have been. if you want to talk about problems with the congress and it senate, as a person breaks my heart. i know we were cheated. that, here we are 16 years later and you have somebody who runs for president moreets 2.5 million votes

than the person coming in. he is coming in. how is the will of the people done when we are supposed to be a nation where majority rules? guest: actually, i have to point out that we have an electoral college system. it worked the way the framers wanted it to work. a presidentraid of elected only by the national popular vote than candidates would simply ignore large parts of the country. they would ignore less populated areas. they would just go to big cities and try to win there. they set up the electoral college system. that means candidates have to deal with people throughout the

country. win regional contests all across the country. i would point out that in florida actually they recounted the ballots. al gore was beaten. president bush had a little over 500 more votes. consortia after the election got together and recounted all the ballots in the state under several different methods. every time they did that george bush still won the state. former fec commissioner now with the heritage foundation. his work is available online. this tweet from donald trump. , new fraud in for genia hampshire and california.

is he accurate? guest: he is more right than his critics are. his critics say there is absolutely no evidence of voter for a. a half we have put together a database of almost 700 convictions from around the country. there were cases where the fraud actually affected the outcome of the election. i think there is a very big problem with noncitizens. registering and voting across the country. could it affect the election? about two years ago some academics did some study. conclusion was that enough noncitizens may have voted in the 2008 election.

that ino pointed out wasesota the senate race only one by a couple hundred votes. this says, what are the procedures if any following a vote? that is a very good question. there are no audit procedures a losingmeone starts candidate where they say something happened in the election that deserves a recount. there isn't an audit procedure goess the losing candidate into court and says we really need to do a recount. of that is just recently a losing candidate in a

democratic primary in misery for the state legislative seat went to court. he had only lost by a small votes.of he was an african-american democrat who was challenging a longtime democratic incumbent. the judge in the case founded enough problems in the absentee ballot that he ordered a new and the challenger actually won the election. states have different laws about felons voting. you live in virginia. the 14th amendment gives to the state the power to decide when felons vote and when they won't vote.

into states you can vote from prison. vermont and maine. virginia is one of the states where when you get out of prison you don't automatic to get your right to vote back. you have to have it restored by the governor. the dispute in virginia has been over the fact that the state constitution says that has to be done on individual case-by-case basis. the governor attempted to simply issue a blanket order that restore the rights of over 200,000 felons. to doing it on an individual basis and restored about 60,000 felons for the last election. host: sean is joining us from connecticut on the independent line. caller: good morning. i would like to ask about the thousand people in virginia that

committed perjury when they registered to vote. are any of those folks getting prosecuted? guest: unfortunately not. one of the things we discovered from the organization that was doing that report was that while the county election officials took the noncitizens off the roll, they did not forward information about those individuals either to state prosecutors for the federal government. they should have done that. it is a felony. unfortunately that did not surprise me. five years ago i was on another and weelection board discovered almost 300 noncitizens who were registered to vote.

we took them off the voter rolls and forwarded the information to the county prosecutor and u.s. justice department neither of whom did anything about it. host: our guest is a graduate of m.i.t. this is from carol. followed checking account in bush v gore. bush won by only 500 votes. a win is a win. another viewer saying jill stein was a spoiler for hillary. accurate or not? guest: we are not really sure who the jill stein voters would have voted for. jill stein has asked for a recount in these three states. normally the person asking for a recount is the candidate who came in second and they usually only asked for a recount if they have asked by a very small

number of votes. in these three cases jill stein lost by a huge amount. she only got about 1% of the vote. there is absolutely zero chance that any kind of recount would change the outcome of the race. i think this is a huge waste of time and money. i'm not sure why she's going forward with this. host: if people want to follow you on twitter? let's go to bed in louisville -- ed in louisville, kentucky. caller: i would like to know why we can't have a national id for president. i can understand the states rights for the senate and house. it seems like we should be able to have a national id that is checked against our social security databases and tax

databases to make sure they are legal u.s. citizens before they vote. anytime anyone has proposed a national id or federal requirement for a photo id card when you vote it has led to a huge fight. the last time congress passed a major piece of legislation on elections was the help america vote act in 2002. sunk by thes almost fight that republicans and democrats got into over the issue of a photo id card for voting. compromised and it is now part of federal law that this is one thing that every state has to do. when you register for the first time you have to provide a form of id but it can be anything from a bank statement to a utility card to a drivers

license. we will follow-up up on your point about noncitizens. this fever says noncitizens are allowed to vote in some states but only in local elections. there's about a half-dozen small towns across the country that allow noncitizens to vote in those. they can't vote in state elections. all states require you to be a citizen and you can vote in federal elections. gloria in maryland on the democrat line. hans von spakovsky is from the. isn't that a republican organization?

it seems like in history that the few times we have had a problem with the popular vote not matching the electoral college has always been on the side of the republicans. why are the republicans so set on saying there is a legal loading when most of the republicans -- illegal voting when most of the republicans hold the state senate seats which are in charge of the voting acts that are local in every state? most of them are republicans. rampant scandal going on with voter registration fraud?

a person serves a certain time in jail they should be able to vote once they are out and free of whatever crime they committed. that's what president obama was trying to put in place. it's not like we are trying to steal votes because the republicans are always the ones that come out the victor. i still think the bush gore thing was a fraud. his brother was the governor. scalia changed the supreme court vote. who did that benefit? are cheating so much on the democrat side wire the republicans always the victor? host: thanks for the call. john quincy adams, benjamin, george w. bush and now donald trump. five presidents who did not win the popular vote. guest: one of those presidential

races where the winner of the popular vote was not elected president was rutherford b. hayes. look at what historians have said about that race. it was right after the end of reconstruction. a lot of folks actually believe that rutherford b. hayes did win the popular vote. because the votes of african-americans throughout the south were suppressed. they believe there was huge voter fraud in those southern states to prevent african-americans who voted for republicans at that time from winning. the electoral college was effective in picking the winner. is not aage foundation republican organization. we are a conservative organization. wins at the end of a race as long as every eligible voter has been able to

vote and their votes haven't been stolen. there are a lot of secretaries of state in the country who are republican. the groups that have been fighting efforts to improve the integrity of the election process are mostly progressive left groups. --er fraud is not something it is bipartisan. there have been cases of democrats being convicted of voter fraud. you go to places like kentucky and you will find places there. local officials being convicted of voter fraud. spent something like $12,000 buying votes which of course is a felony. should voter fraud be a federal crime? guest: it is a federal crime.

it is a state crime and a federal crime. a lot of folks who are critical of efforts to stop voter fraud say there aren't that many cases. that's not the way it works. the justice department's attitude is when fraud occurs they monitor it and they wait for locals to prosecute the cases. if they don't take care of a problem the federal government will step in to do it. the problem is fraud is very difficult to discover after an election. to putuch easier measures in place that make it hard to commit. host: this document is available on the website. what surprised you the most? what surprised me the

most was the reaction of political groups and others when voter fraud is discovered and prosecuted. in the 1990's the clinton administration prosecuted and convicted almost a dozen local officials in a small county in alabama. it was clear they had been stealing elections for years. this is a heavily democratic county. heavily african-american. stealingumbents aren't votes from other republicans, they were stealing votes from other democratic challengers. the person called the justice department was a young african-american reformer who wanted to replace one of the county officials to try to clean up the government.

local organizations like the naacp and others rather than helping this challenger raised all these charges that investigating and prosecuting this voter fraud was an attempt to suppress black votes. they sided with the vote steelers and i was just astounded at that. in the end fortunately these individuals were all convicted. african-american turnout in the county went up after the election. host: john is next on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. first-time caller on the republican line. i saw an investigative report last week about illegals voting in california. of the 12 states that issues drivers license to illegals. about westerning vendorsre there are

that create these fake documents. one of those three is all they have to present to vote. it's even easier. i know the report you are talking about. you don't really need to show id in california to vote. this is the 20th anniversary in california of an election contest between an incumbent republican who lost an loretta sanchez. house committee investigated the and found over 600 noncitizens were found to have voted in that race and that was 20 years ago. unfortunately things in california have just gotten worse since then.

in 2011 you say the electoral board in fairfax county virginia sent the justice department information about 278 noncitizens registered to vote in fairfax county. what happened? nothing happened. it just disappeared into the black hole of the justice department. we never got a single call from them. they didn't prosecute it. felonyere 278 potential voter fraud cases that could have prosecuted and they did nothing about it. host: go to jerry in florida. good morning. caller: i would like to invite to takeleman prosecutor

his database to case western reserve university statistics department. where i work. and show your database which has been proven to be completely just like your statement that you are a conservative organization not a republican organization. you know that's false. and you know your database is false. the things that you are discussing right now could not live in the light of day of science. thank you. host: we will get a response. our database is a listing of court convictions. in each case you will see the either a newspaper article discussing the conviction of an individual in a court of law for committing voter fraud or actual court documents. is somehow at it false database, all the source material is there. a sampling of election

fraud cases from across the country is available online. thank you for being with us. will discusserg the challenges facing the trump administration in cap directing isis inspired attacks at home, much like the ohio state university attacks. examine theer will amount of federal grant money given to urban areas. be sure to watch "washington journal" live at 7:00 a.m. eastern monday morning.

join the discussion. follow the transition of government on c-span as president-elect donald trump selects his cabinet and the republicans and democrats prepare for the next congress. we take you to key events as they happen without interruption. watch live on c-span. watch on-demand at www.c-span.org. or listen for free on our c-span radio app. stephanie: leo shane joins us. discuss theto president-elect's pick for defense secretary, which mr. trump says he will announce on leo: this is a very popular figure within the marine corps, known as being a real warrior scholar. someone who is well respected in congress and expected not to

face too much opposition, but there is the problem of the national security act which says that if you've served in the military, you've got to wait at least seven years he for you are eligible to be secretary of defense. general mattis retired only a few years ago. he's going to need a special waiver to get through. there's a few locking makers -- lawmakers who have raised an eyebrow. stephanie: how long has that restriction been on place? the this has been a loss in 1940's. as soon as congress passed it, they almost immediately granted a waiver for former secretary of defense marshall. when it was first passed, the restriction was 10 years. in the 1980's, they shortened that the seven years. it is still going to be a problem. senator mccain has already said he fully supports the mattis nomination.

he's willing to shepherd the legislation through that will be needed to take care of this. we did hear of jackson's from senator -- here objections from senator gillibrand, saying she has concerns that this is supposed to be a civilian post. that is why the law is in effect. she will put up some resistance. she will make sure the senate has to go through normal procedure, not allow unanimous consent, not allow this to sail through without some conversation about why this law is here and what it means to have somebody take over this role. stephanie: which committees would this waiver need to go through? would it need to pass in the house and senate before he's confirmed? what kind of threshold are we talking about? leo: we're still trying to figure out the details. this is going to go through the senate armed services committee.

senator mccain is the chairman of that committee. he's already trying to draft appropriate legislation, make sure this sales through as easily as possible. it has to go through both chambers. it is subject to the same rules and vote totals that a normal piece of legislation would be. there's going to need to be 60 senators who sign off on this to to it through, as opposed the normal nomination process when they need a simple majority. it will be a little complicated. as i said, there's pretty widespread support for him in this pick. he's a very popular figure within the military, within congress. a lot of folks are happy to see that president-elect trump has picked someone who is familiar with foreign policy. i imagine it is going to take some extra paperwork, but not a real obstacle for him. stephanie: here's a look at what the chair of the senate armed

services committee has been saying. the president-elect has selected mattis for secretary of defense, one of the finest military officers of his generation. what has senator mccain said about getting the waiver through congress? leo: mattis for secretary of just that he's willing to work on it. he doesn't see the nomination as any sort of real concern. on the democratic side, the few democrats who brought this up, senator gillibrand is the only one who said she's going to oppose his nomination on these grounds. a few democrats said, this is worth looking at. we don't have any problem with general mattis, but there's a reason this law is in the books. stephanie: and here is a look. senator gillibrand from new york tweeted, while i respect general mattis's service, i'll oppose a waiver. you said you are not hearing any more than what you've heard from

her about senators wanting to block this nomination. leo: congressman schiff on the house side has said that he has the same concerns. the ranking member of the house armed services committee, he said he has the same concerns. it is concerns with this idea of a civilian-controlled military or a military-controlled military. he has had some colorful language and some controversial positions that got him forced out of the obama administration. he was openly fighting with them about their stance towards iran. right now it is a theoretical discussion about military-civilian control and not so much a discussion about his credentials. isphanie: if the waiver passed, pretty smooth sailing? leo: for the number of questionable or possibly controversial nominations we are

seeing, this doesn't seem to be one of them. a lot of folks are going to say a lot of the right things. maybe we will see some nice conversations about what it means to have a civilian-controlled military instead of attacks on his past. stephanie: we're going to keep following you on twitter. we will look for your writing in "the military times." thanks so much. leo: thank you. c-span, where history unfolds daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies, and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. abigail fillmore was the first first lady to work outside the home, teaching in a private school. hairstylehower's created fashion sensations. mamie think was marketed as a

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with ronald right. that is followed by british prime minister theresa may taking questions from members of the house of commons. later, john kerry talks about his tenure at the state department and ongoing challenges in the middle east. ♪ >> this week on q&a, ronald white. he discusses his book "american ulysses: a life of ulysses s. grant" >> ronald c white, author of "american ulysses: a life of ulysses s. grant" what is the story you open your prologue with?